1 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, you, Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 2 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and it's Saturday. 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:13,040 Speaker 1: Time to go into the vault for a classic episode. 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: This episode originally aired on June nineteen, and it was 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: about the facial feedback hypothesis, something that has been proposed 6 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:25,640 Speaker 1: supposed for many years now. It goes back a long ways. 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Darwin commented on it, and it's the idea that our 8 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: emotions are not only reflected in our facial expressions, but 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,519 Speaker 1: in some ways shaped by our facial expressions that, like 10 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: the movements of the body create a feedback effect that 11 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 1: goes back in and tweaks what we're feeling. And so 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: we tried to look at the evidence to see is 13 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,760 Speaker 1: this actually true? Yeah, what comes first? The smile or 14 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: the happy? The happy or the smile, That's what this 15 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 1: episode is all about. Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your 16 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:05,880 Speaker 1: Mind production of I Heart Radios How to Work. Hey, 17 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My name is 18 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,520 Speaker 1: Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. And let's give this 19 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: opening another shot because I just tried to really corny 20 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: opening line and Robert's just a look of quiet contempt 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: across the table. I was I was laughing on the inside, 22 00:01:20,760 --> 00:01:23,160 Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure you were. I wasn't even laughing 23 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: at my own joke. There. Um, maybe this will be better, Okay, 24 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 1: So we're gonna start off today by doing a Charles 25 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: Darwin deep cut. So Darwin of course published his great 26 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: work on the Origin of Species in eighteen fifty nine, 27 00:01:36,080 --> 00:01:38,039 Speaker 1: and of course that was the book that explained his 28 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: theory of the origin of species, the Revolution by natural selection. 29 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 1: Then later you got another one, that's The Descent of 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: Man eighteen seventy one, which applied his theory to human evolution. 31 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 1: And then a year after that, in eighteen seventy two, 32 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:55,440 Speaker 1: he published The Expression of Emotions in Man and Animals, 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 1: which is about the biological features of emotions like happiness, sadness, surprise, fear, 34 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 1: for example, the relationship between what we feel and the 35 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: physical expressions of those feelings in the body. Because I 36 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: think this is one of those little mysteries that's so 37 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: close and so invisible, we forget to ask why. But 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 1: why is it that emotions which are influenced by the 39 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: content of our thoughts, like our beliefs and our knowledge 40 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:30,639 Speaker 1: what we're aware of they Why do they cause these powerful, automatic, 41 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: even unconscious reactions from the muscles and glands throughout the body. 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:39,959 Speaker 1: Why does a feeling of moral disgust cause us to 43 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,680 Speaker 1: involuntarily turn our faces away and crinkle our noses up? 44 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: Or why does a feeling of embarrassment or passion sometimes 45 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 1: cause blood to rush to the cheeks and cause us 46 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: to cover parts of our faces with our hands. Or 47 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: why does an emotionally manipulative TV commercial about a sad 48 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: dog trigger these unconscious movements in the eyebrows and the 49 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: corners of the mouth, or even engage the tear ducks 50 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,800 Speaker 1: if you're a real sap yes, a sad dog, the 51 00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: dog should be smiling and be happy. Right, Well, there's 52 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: always like those are the things that are funny, where 53 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 1: like a really dramatically moving, you know, whole movie or 54 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: book might not make me cry, but like the sentimental 55 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: commercial with like the old dog Buddy and the you know, 56 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 1: buying the purina one for him or whatever that really 57 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: like gets me going finally sharpened and by um uh, 58 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 1: you know, a multimillion dollar marketing campaigns to cut right 59 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: to the heart. Now their emotional assassins they slip in 60 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: in the night their ninja. So I think these relationships 61 00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: between thoughts and feelings and autonomically regulated involuntary activity of 62 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: the skeletal muscles in the face and elsewhere in the 63 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: body is truly a fascinating evolutionary mystery. Why do our 64 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 1: bodies execute these movements when we feel these things? What 65 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 1: biological purpose does it serve? And why do so many 66 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: of these relationships between feelings and movements of the skeletal muscle, 67 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:12,480 Speaker 1: not all, but a lot of them. Why do they 68 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: seem to transcend cultural, national, and linguistic barriers. So I 69 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: think this whole area is a is a totally interesting 70 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,440 Speaker 1: subject ripe for investigation. But today we wanted to focus 71 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:29,039 Speaker 1: on one specific question that arises from Darwin's work here, 72 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: and to introduce this question, I want to read a 73 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: passage with a few abridgements from the very end of 74 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,440 Speaker 1: the book, where Darwin writes about some of the implications 75 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: of his observations about emotions in humans and animals. Quote. 76 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: The movements of expression in the face and body, whatever 77 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: their origin may have been, are in themselves of much 78 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: importance for our welfare. They serve as the first means 79 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 1: of communication between the mother and her infant. She smiles 80 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: approval and thus encourages her child on the right path, 81 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: or frowns disapproval. We readily perceive it's right away, But 82 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,640 Speaker 1: come on, a kid was just born, just already just 83 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:11,920 Speaker 1: complete disapproval, Maybe that's more important. Later we readily perceived 84 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: sympathy in others by their expression. Our sufferings are thus 85 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 1: mitigated and our pleasures increased, and mutual good feeling is 86 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 1: thus strengthened. The movements of expression give vividness and energy 87 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:27,919 Speaker 1: to our spoken word. They reveal the thoughts and intentions 88 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: of others more truly than do words, which may be falsified. 89 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: And then a little bit later, the free expression by 90 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: outward signs of an emotion intensifies it. On the other hand, 91 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: the repression, as far as this is possible, of all 92 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 1: outward signs, softens our emotions. He who gives way to 93 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 1: violent gestures will increase his rage. He who does not 94 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 1: control the signs of fear will experience fear in a 95 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: greater degree. And he who remains passive when overwhelmed with 96 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: grief loses his best chance of recovering. Elasticity of mind 97 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: These results followed partly from the intimate relation which exists 98 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:10,800 Speaker 1: between almost all the emotions and their outward manifestations, and 99 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 1: partly from the direct influence of exertion on the heart 100 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: and consequently on the brain. Even the simulation of an 101 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: emotion tends to arouse it in our minds. Shakespeare, who 102 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: from his wonderful knowledge of the human mind, ought to 103 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: be an excellent judge, says, is it not monstrous that 104 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 1: this player here? And this is a line from Hamlet's soliloquy, 105 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,160 Speaker 1: where he's watching the play, and he's watching the actors, 106 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 1: and he concludes in the end that the plays the 107 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king. But 108 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,520 Speaker 1: earlier in the soliloquy he's uh watching the actors act, 109 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: and and Hamlet thinks, is it not monstrous that this 110 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 1: player here, but in a fiction, in a dream of passion, 111 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 1: could force his soul so to his own conceit that 112 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,679 Speaker 1: from her working all his visage wand tears in his eyes, 113 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:03,920 Speaker 1: distraction in this aspect, a broken voice, and his whole 114 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: functions suiting with forms to his conceit, and all for nothing. 115 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 1: You know, this is interesting getting into acting, because I 116 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:15,720 Speaker 1: feel like, maybe this is just me, but I feel 117 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: like a lot of us when we watch a well 118 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: acted scene, especially in a film as opposed to a play, 119 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: where you can actually get so much closer uh to 120 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: the facial features of the actor, if if the actor 121 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: is is truly talented, it's something to behold watching them 122 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: channel emotions, sometimes completely nonverbally, and I think it probably 123 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 1: stands out for a couple of reasons. For for starters, 124 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: there are a lot of bad or just average performances 125 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 1: in film where you don't see authentic emotion uh channeled, 126 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: even in like scenes of extreme emotion, which you're going 127 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: to encounter more often in a film perhaps than in 128 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: everyday life. But even in everyday life, when we are 129 00:07:56,440 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: when we're encountering someone displaying extreme emotion, were likely a 130 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,120 Speaker 1: part of that scenario, you know, unless we're just as 131 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 1: we see something on the street. But even then, I mean, 132 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: are we Unless you're a complete bystander and you're just 133 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,440 Speaker 1: completely locked out of it, you're probably going to feel something. 134 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: That's a really good point. Whereas if you watch, if 135 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: you're watching just a really well acted scene in a film, 136 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 1: like you you have that permission of distance, right where 137 00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: you can stand back and say, look at what their 138 00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: their faces doing, like I'm watching blood vessels move, I'm 139 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: seeing something in their eyes, like I'm I'm seeing authentic 140 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: emotion pour out of their face. Yeah, it's like watching 141 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: a film can, especially with great acting, can be like 142 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:38,360 Speaker 1: a tasting course for human emotions, whereas normally, like you know, 143 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,080 Speaker 1: you'd be involved in the cooking or something where you know, 144 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: and so. Uh and of course it would just be 145 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: rude to try to observe other people's emotions. Uh so, yeah, Yeah, 146 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: that's a really good point about acting, and it is 147 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: uh interesting. I mean we often wonder this, right, like, um, 148 00:08:57,080 --> 00:09:00,640 Speaker 1: when an actor convincingly portrays an emotion or character, does 149 00:09:00,679 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: the actor actually feel that emotion? What are the important 150 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: biological or psychological differences in the moment between an actor 151 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: acting out in emotion with their face and their body 152 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,079 Speaker 1: and a person actually feeling that emotion, Like, what what 153 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: are the differences you could name their Yeah, I mean, 154 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:21,559 Speaker 1: obviously they're different approaches to acting, different schools of acting, 155 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: but uh, you know, certainly a lot of the time 156 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: when you're seeing somebody emote on the screen, they are 157 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: they're drawing on real emotions, real experiences that are in 158 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,319 Speaker 1: some way comparable to what their character is supposed to feel. Yeah, 159 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: and I think that's why a lot of times actors 160 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: actually need time to say, get into and out of character. 161 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: You know. They can't turn it off and on in 162 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:44,080 Speaker 1: an instant. I mean, I guess maybe some can, but 163 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: a lot can't. They need they need a few moments 164 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: to sort of gather themselves, to get in and then 165 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:52,640 Speaker 1: gather themselves once they get out. But yeah, So anyway, 166 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 1: Darwin is suggesting here that the bodily manifestations of emotion, 167 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: including the facial expressions, are not just a consequence of 168 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 1: the emotions we feel, though they are that, of course, uh. 169 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: And the fact that we have these outward uh signs 170 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:11,440 Speaker 1: of the emotions we feel, of course, is useful for 171 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: communicating our emotional states to others, and this could be 172 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: one very important biological role that these expressions play. But 173 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: he says they also are involved in the regulation and 174 00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: maintenance of the emotions themselves. So a smile isn't just 175 00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: a consequence of feeling joy. The smile contributes to and 176 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 1: sustains and modulates the feeling of joy. The tightened lip 177 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: corner isn't just a result of our feeling of contempt, 178 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,480 Speaker 1: but it in some way makes us feel contempt. So 179 00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 1: it's almost like there are two dogs chained to each other, 180 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 1: and if one moves the other one cannot help but 181 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: be moved as well. Right, well, I mean according to 182 00:10:50,240 --> 00:10:53,880 Speaker 1: to Darwin's view here, Yeah, so his ideas that the 183 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 1: the bodily expressions don't just follow from emotional states. They 184 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: they in part are the emotional states. They contribute to 185 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: and control the emotional states. Yeah yeah, and uh, you know, 186 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: we'll get into this some more. But I think that 187 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: this is something that a lot of us can can 188 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: point to times in our life where this either definitely 189 00:11:14,360 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 1: feels true or other times where it definitely doesn't feel true. Like, um, 190 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: for instance, I go to I go to yoga a 191 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: lot I really enjoy and I think benefit physically and 192 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: mentally from a yoga practice. And there are times where 193 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,560 Speaker 1: you're you're in a pose and a teacher may tell everybody, 194 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,240 Speaker 1: don't you know, don't forget to smile, smile, and then 195 00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 1: that'll change your sort of emotional uh participation with the pose. 196 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: And in those situations, it it does feel sometimes like 197 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: it helps on the other hand, I've had teachers who 198 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: say that they they've stopped saying that because sometimes people 199 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,320 Speaker 1: in the class, you know, have bad experience with being 200 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: told to smile. I mean, that's become very much a 201 00:11:56,160 --> 00:12:01,480 Speaker 1: being harassed on the streets cliche of misogynistic behavior telling 202 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: someone they should smile more telling someone they should smile, 203 00:12:04,480 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: And it can be that alone. Yeah, I can feel 204 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: no matter you know, you know, you know what what 205 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: your your your gender happens to be, it's like being 206 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: told to smile, as if that is just going to 207 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,000 Speaker 1: fix your problems, that's gonna totally change your your your mood. 208 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:21,600 Speaker 1: It can feel insulting, right, Like, surely my emotional state 209 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: depends on more than just what my face is doing. 210 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: And ultimately I think we all can agree it does 211 00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:29,880 Speaker 1: being told to smile, and then smiling does not fix 212 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 1: whatever caused you to frown to begin with. And then 213 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 1: that's not getting into the case, you know, the situation 214 00:12:35,480 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 1: that we do need to frown, we do need to 215 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,679 Speaker 1: have like the full uh spectrum of emotions. Right, that's 216 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:42,920 Speaker 1: certainly right, even if Darwin is correct, Like even if 217 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: Darwin is right that the smile itself can give you 218 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: some kind of feedback that in turn actually increases the 219 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,720 Speaker 1: positivity of your emotional state. The smile can make you happier. 220 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 1: I mean that that doesn't necessarily mean it's good for other, 221 00:12:56,760 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: like exogenous forces to try to coerce smiling on you, 222 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: to tell you should be smiling, which I think can 223 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: probably lead to all kinds of other emotions that could 224 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: negate whatever positivity comes from the muscle movements that might 225 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 1: be making you happier. So, as we're talking, you know, 226 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 1: we're not talking just about smiles, but smiles do come 227 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,000 Speaker 1: up a lot in in the discussion here, so I 228 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:21,599 Speaker 1: thought it would be helpful to take a moment just 229 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: talk about what a smile is. Um. You know, our 230 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 1: smile is a bit different from the smile that we 231 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 1: see expressed by our great ape brethren, where it is 232 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: essentially a fear grin. Uh. You know it's it's often 233 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: flashed when an individual is trapped or threatened, it to 234 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: show of submission to more dominant members of the group, 235 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: and you know it's it is then an admission of 236 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: fear and a signal, uh, though a signal that doesn't 237 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: just stand on its own. It's like part of a 238 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:53,280 Speaker 1: larger bodily signal that is expressed, uh as if to say, 239 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 1: you know, I am not hostile, I'm not a threat. 240 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,080 Speaker 1: And I was reading a little bit about this neuroscientist 241 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 1: um Michael Graziano, who have discussed on the show before. 242 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: He has a wonderful Eon magazine article that discusses this topic, 243 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: and he points out a number of things we've talked 244 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: about here already. Also points out, you know that that 245 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: even you know, with humans, people sometimes in subservient positions, 246 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 1: will will smile a lot. You know, there's sort of 247 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: the uh, you know, the the boot licking smile that 248 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,680 Speaker 1: we still kind of identify the idea of the obsequious smile. Yeah, 249 00:14:26,760 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and uh, and so that in that it would seem 250 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: that there are certain aspects of the great ape smile 251 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: but haven't quite left us. Uh. You know. He points 252 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: as well to shakespeare line from troy Less and Cressida 253 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:41,280 Speaker 1: quote they send their smiles before them to Achilles, uh, 254 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 1: which which I think is is rather nice. So the 255 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,400 Speaker 1: human smile seems to have definitely emerged out of the 256 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: same sort of thing. I mean, you know, we are 257 00:14:48,320 --> 00:14:50,680 Speaker 1: we are primates after all. And of course, even though 258 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 1: they're you know, a smile as a smile, as a smile. 259 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: There are some cultural differences in the way smiles are 260 00:14:56,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: perceived from one culture to another. Um. You we mentioned, uh, 261 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 1: Darwin mentioned babies earlier, and and certainly human newborns flash 262 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: reflex smiles, but then social smiles come a little later, 263 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: six to twelve weeks generally. Um. Yeah. Anyway, In this 264 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 1: an article, uh, Graziano points out that, you know, most 265 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: commentators agree that primate smiles are very old, and some 266 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 1: think that it might have evolved out of an old 267 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: or threatening display. But he thinks that if we focus 268 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: too much on the teeth, we miss something else. Again, 269 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: that full body display that is evident, right, It involves 270 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: multiple regions of muscles in the face. Yeah, I think 271 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: stuff around the cheeks and the sides of the mouth, 272 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:39,080 Speaker 1: but also the eyes, right yeah, yeah, and even yeah, 273 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,360 Speaker 1: just like what you know, the full body is doing 274 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: in the full uh you know, communication array that is 275 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: the face in the head. So what do you proposes 276 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: ultimately is that we're talking we're talking about here is 277 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: a smile that's kind of a halfway point between not 278 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: reacting to a display of dominance and fully reacting to it. Um, 279 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: which which is? Which is interesting? It's almost like, um, 280 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, these these creatures learning to lie to each other, 281 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: to deceive each other, you know. Um, here's a quote 282 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,880 Speaker 1: from where he's talking about like monkey A and monkey be, 283 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: you know, hypothetically interacting. Quote. Monkey be can learn a 284 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: lot by watching the reaction of Monkey A. If Monkey 285 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: A makes a full blown protective response, cringe and all, 286 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,040 Speaker 1: it's a pretty good sign that Monkey A is frightened. 287 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: He's uneasy, his personal space is revved up and expanded. 288 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: He must view monkey B as a threat, a social superior. 289 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: On the other hand, if Monkey A reveals only a 290 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,800 Speaker 1: subtle response, perhaps squinting and slightly pulling back his head, 291 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: it's a good sign that Monkey A is not so frightened. 292 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: He does not consider Monkey B to be a social 293 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: superior or a threat. So the social signal evolves from here, 294 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 1: and he drives home the quote. The primary evolutionary pressure 295 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: is on the receiver of the signal, not the sender. 296 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: The story is about how we came to react to smiles. Yeah, 297 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: that's interesting, but it also raises all these other questions 298 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,600 Speaker 1: about So if we consider the evolution of the smile 299 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:04,159 Speaker 1: as having something to do with social signaling, and you know, 300 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 1: it relates to the social relationships between animals that live 301 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: in groups and interact with each other. Why is it 302 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,840 Speaker 1: that in in our lives at least, I would say 303 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: the smile is very divorced from that original context where 304 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,359 Speaker 1: you smile by yourself all the time, you be completely 305 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,600 Speaker 1: alone and something makes you happy and you find yourself beaming. Yeah, 306 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,680 Speaker 1: this is true. Um. Now, we've discussed before though, how 307 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 1: we might not laugh, though we might smile but not laugh, 308 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: or at least that's a good point. The laughter might 309 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 1: be and the smile might be more pronounced if there's 310 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:38,600 Speaker 1: someone else around, particularly you know, someone really know. Yeah, 311 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: we were just talking about this before we started recording. Actually, 312 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: how you know we we watched the Mystery Science Theater 313 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: three thousand episode and we laugh if somebody else is 314 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,560 Speaker 1: in the room. It's still funny if nobody else is there, 315 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: but you just don't laugh out loud. Yeah, I've Hey, 316 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 1: I'm trying to think of a time if I if 317 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 1: I ever watched something and just really laughed out loud 318 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,200 Speaker 1: by myself, and how funny it is, like, uh, yeah, 319 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 1: nothing comes to mind and in fact, I think I 320 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: would feel weird if I did. I would feel like 321 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,200 Speaker 1: Sam Neil's character at the end of In the Mouth 322 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,879 Speaker 1: of Madness where he's uh in the movie theater. Sometimes 323 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,080 Speaker 1: Barbarian movies do it for me. I think I was 324 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: laughing pretty loud by myself when I was watching Your 325 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 1: Hunter from the Future. No, maybe you were just beside 326 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: yourself with laughter. And therefore you know you have you 327 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 1: know yourself to to communicate to um. So, so basically, 328 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: Graziana points out, you know that from here it would 329 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: have been an evolutionary arms race. Um And and this 330 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: is a wonderful article, by the way, it's titled The 331 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:43,479 Speaker 1: First Smile. It's available, you know, Eddie and magazine and uh. 332 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,600 Speaker 1: He gets into laughter as well. But here's how he 333 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: sums everything up. Quote. Evolution favors animals that can read 334 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:52,359 Speaker 1: and react to those signs, and it favors animals that 335 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:55,679 Speaker 1: can manipulate those signs to influence whoever is watching. We 336 00:18:55,760 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 1: have stumbled on the defining ambiguity of human emotional life. 337 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:03,680 Speaker 1: We are always quite caught between authenticity and fakeery, always 338 00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:10,960 Speaker 1: floating in the gray area between involuntary outburst and expedient pretense. Yeah, 339 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:12,600 Speaker 1: so you know, I think it's helpful to think about 340 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 1: the complexity of the smile, the mix of authenticity and fakeery. Um. 341 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: You know, we've just I think we've discussed fake smiles 342 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: on the show before about how you know, there's this 343 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: lack of micro expressive detail and a fake smile that 344 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,560 Speaker 1: you can pick up on. Um. But that to like 345 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: truly fake a smile, you do have to summon some 346 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,359 Speaker 1: of the energy of the smile, you know. Um. Yeah, anyway, 347 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,879 Speaker 1: it gets it gets very complicated, and especially in the 348 00:19:37,920 --> 00:19:41,560 Speaker 1: human scenario, to to define exactly what a smile is 349 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,399 Speaker 1: in the degrees of smiling. Well, here's maybe a good question. 350 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,880 Speaker 1: Are all smiles on command fake smiles? Or are there 351 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: are there cases where you smile on command and not 352 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: because you know, you suddenly are overwhelmed by a feeling 353 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,239 Speaker 1: of positivity and joy and happiness. You know, you just 354 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 1: smile because you need to. But it's not fake. Yeah, 355 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 1: this is a good question. It's it's it kind of 356 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: goes in with laughter as well, or at least kind 357 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: of like the mild laughter. I think of like interactions 358 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 1: with people, uh, you know, be be it at work 359 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 1: or you know, strangers at a store, you know, the 360 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: various social interactions that feel our lives. And I'll catch 361 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,320 Speaker 1: myself smiling, I'll catch myself, you know, laughing a little bit, 362 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: even if there's not a joke, which seems strange, like 363 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: maybe it makes me kind of feel like I'm the 364 00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: joker or something. Um, the man who laughs. Yeah, not 365 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: in a good way, not in the Steve Miller way, 366 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 1: but you know, in the Batman way. Um, and yeah, 367 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,800 Speaker 1: and you start teasing it apart, and you start asking yourself, well, 368 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 1: was this authentic? Was this inauthentic? Or was it or 369 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: is it like Graziano says, is somewhere in between? Like 370 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: for for instance, um, I think one person wrote into 371 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: us once and accused one or both of us a 372 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: fake laughing at each other's jokes. Do you remember this? 373 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 1: I don't remember this, and uh, um yeah, it was 374 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: a while back, and I think only it was only 375 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: one person that ever ever wrote in about it. And 376 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,160 Speaker 1: it just made me stop and think though, because I'm like, well, 377 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: what we do here is is kind of a performance. 378 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: You know, we're not reading from a script, We're having 379 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,360 Speaker 1: an authentic conversation, but it's a conversation knowing that someone 380 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,400 Speaker 1: else is listening to it, and like we we do 381 00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: make each other laugh, maybe we do lean into it 382 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:20,959 Speaker 1: a little bit. I don't know it. Like it basically 383 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:23,200 Speaker 1: comes down to exactly what Graziana said that it's it's 384 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: not just fakery and authenticity, but there's this there's this 385 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:29,439 Speaker 1: huge area in between, and we may not even be 386 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: aware of where we are on that spectrum in a 387 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: given moment. Okay, I think we gotta take a break, 388 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:38,920 Speaker 1: but we will be right back with more than Alright, 389 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:43,920 Speaker 1: we're back. Okay. So we've been discussing facial expressions emotions. 390 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: Uh Darwin's writing on the relationship between facial expressions and emotions, 391 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: or not just facial expressions, I mean all kinds of 392 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:55,640 Speaker 1: body expressions and physical manifestations and emotions. Um. And so 393 00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: this leads up to something that we're going to be 394 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: talking about for the rest of today's episode, which has 395 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: come to be known as the facial feedback hypothesis. Now, 396 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,120 Speaker 1: I guess to have a starting place, we should talk 397 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:11,959 Speaker 1: about what some of the acceptable emotions for discussions are, 398 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: because obviously there are lots of complex emotions that might 399 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,760 Speaker 1: be you know, little shadings of other more basic emotions 400 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: or combinations of feelings commonly acknowledged basic emotions in psychology, 401 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,199 Speaker 1: as categorized by the American psychologist Paul Ekman. Let's hear him, 402 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:38,400 Speaker 1: how about happiness, sadness, surprise, discussed, anger, and fear. There 403 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,159 Speaker 1: you got your big six. Now, other psychologists have offered 404 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: slightly different lists, but I think this seems to be 405 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 1: like a good starting place. These are like six widely 406 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: acknowledged basic emotions, setting aside for a second that you know, 407 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,920 Speaker 1: different theories of what emotions actually are, which will come 408 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: back to later in the episode. They're they're also like 409 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: the constructionist ideas of emotions, which says, it's more like 410 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: there's some kind of universal slider underneath all these and 411 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,199 Speaker 1: these are like categories that we apply to where that 412 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 1: slider is. But for now, we're gonna work with those 413 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: kind of six emotions and so put succinctly. The facial 414 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 1: feedback hypothesis is the idea that quote an individual's experience 415 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: of emotion is influenced by feedback from their facial movements. Now, 416 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,480 Speaker 1: there are tons of different versions of this hypothesis that 417 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: have been articulated and tested over the years. We'll we'll 418 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 1: get more into those differences later on. We know Darwin 419 00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 1: proposed something like this in the eighteen seventies, and it's 420 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: been advocated by other important figures in intellectual history. The Seminal. 421 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,920 Speaker 1: American psychologist William James argued in his eighteen ninety work 422 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: on on psychology that at least for the more basic 423 00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: or coarser emotions, emotions in a way simply are identical 424 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:59,040 Speaker 1: with the sensation of their physical manifestations in the body. Quote. 425 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,760 Speaker 1: If we fancy some strong emotion and then try to 426 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 1: abstract from our consciousness of it all the feelings of 427 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 1: its bodily symptoms, we find we have nothing left behind, 428 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:14,840 Speaker 1: no mind stuff out of which the emotion can be constituted, 429 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,679 Speaker 1: and that a cold and neutral state of intellectual perception 430 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: is all that remains. So that this is a strange idea, 431 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,720 Speaker 1: but this did hold some sway for a long time. 432 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,159 Speaker 1: It's the idea that the feeling of an emotion is 433 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: the feeling of changes happening in the body, including but 434 00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 1: not limited to the skeletal muscle. And this would center largely, 435 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: but not entirely, on expressions that happen automatically in the 436 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: facial muscles, but also all throughout the body. Well, you know, 437 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: this does remind me that you know, when when one 438 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: is smiling intensely um organically, you know you're not faking 439 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: it at all, but like something is making you really 440 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: smile and perhaps laugh really hard as well. There is 441 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,800 Speaker 1: a feeling of possession about it where you can imagine 442 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: it's like this the physical um you know, symptoms are 443 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,639 Speaker 1: actually kind of like crunching your brain into this, uh, 444 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,840 Speaker 1: this pattern of thinking, like like you are you are happy? 445 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:15,240 Speaker 1: Now you are laughing? Now do you ever get the 446 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 1: feeling like feeling happiness in the face in the way 447 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,480 Speaker 1: that if the emotion has a location, it kind of 448 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,280 Speaker 1: feels like it's somewhere behind the face and kind of 449 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: or like it's a claw, Like it's kind of like 450 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: a like a claw clamped over the face, like a 451 00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,400 Speaker 1: xenomorph claw, uh, you know, an alien And and then 452 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: you get to the point where your face is hurting 453 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,359 Speaker 1: a little bit, Like that is always a weird sensation 454 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: where you're like, I'm I'm so happy and overcome by 455 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: joy and it's physically hurting me. I wish it would stop. Well, 456 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,400 Speaker 1: on the other hand, I mean other emotions. I think 457 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,160 Speaker 1: we often do you not, at least I do associate 458 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: fear with a feeling in the stomach and the gut. 459 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,480 Speaker 1: Do you not associate uh, sadness with kind of feelings 460 00:26:02,480 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 1: in like the throat and the temples and behind the 461 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:09,680 Speaker 1: face also, Yeah, yeah, I mean with with with that being, 462 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's often like there's a like a 463 00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: nasal activation. You know, we often don't want to think 464 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,399 Speaker 1: about that when we we think about, you know, weeping 465 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: tears of joy, but it's often not just tears of joy. 466 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,760 Speaker 1: It's not of joy or a snot of sadness. But 467 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,040 Speaker 1: it's not nearly as poetic. But uh, but that's how 468 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: it works. Uh. And in terms of like fear and 469 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: you know, anxiety, I often think of it as more 470 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,639 Speaker 1: like a like a claw. Again, I guess it's claws, 471 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,439 Speaker 1: like I can't get pessive clause, but it's more it 472 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: is more of an internal claw clutching not the face 473 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: but the heart. I had no idea your psychic universe 474 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 1: was all clause. Yeah, I mean that's I guess that's 475 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,679 Speaker 1: how I viewed the outside world. It's just a series 476 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 1: of clause trying to um get to the heart of me. Uh. 477 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 1: So William James also, like Darwin, addressed the subject of acting. 478 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: So to to defend this idea, he brings up apathetical 479 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: objection to his argument that goes something like this is 480 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,640 Speaker 1: so okay, So, William James, you say that bodily expressions 481 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 1: of an of an emotion are identical to the feeling 482 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,360 Speaker 1: of the emotion. Wouldn't it follow then that an actor 483 00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 1: faking in emotion is exactly the same as somebody really 484 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 1: feeling it? And uh And the way James phrases this 485 00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: is that any voluntary, cold blooded arousal of the so 486 00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: called manifestations of a special emotion ought to give us 487 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 1: the emotion itself. And James answers this objection by saying, 488 00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: first of all, you can't really test this because a 489 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: lot of the bodily manifestations of emotions are in organs 490 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,320 Speaker 1: that we can't voluntarily control things in the you know, 491 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,800 Speaker 1: in the gut and the autonomic nervous system. He gives 492 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: the example of tears. Most people can't cry on command, 493 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 1: thus they can't actually perform a voluntary, cold blooded arousal 494 00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,679 Speaker 1: of the physical manifestations in the body. But and there 495 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,560 Speaker 1: are some cases where we can control those manifits stations. 496 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: And in these cases, James says, the problem with the 497 00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,600 Speaker 1: objection is that it just assumes it's obviously wrong. The 498 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: cold blooded arousal of the manifestations gives us the emotion itself. 499 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 1: He does not concede that this is an absurdity. Instead, 500 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: he writes, quote, everyone knows how panic is increased by flight, 501 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:21,919 Speaker 1: and how giving way to the symptoms of grief or 502 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:26,480 Speaker 1: anger increases those passions themselves. Each fit of sobbing makes 503 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: the sorrow more acute and calls forth another fit stronger still, 504 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 1: until at last repose only ensues with lassitude and with 505 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:39,040 Speaker 1: the apparent exhaustion of the machinery enrage. It is notorious 506 00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:42,800 Speaker 1: how we work ourselves up to a climax by repeated 507 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: outbreaks of expression. Refuse to express a passion and it dies. 508 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: This is a famous quote. Here, uh count ten before 509 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,880 Speaker 1: venting your anger and its occasion seems ridiculous. Whistling to 510 00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: keep up courage is no mere figure of speech. On 511 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: the other hand, sit all day in a moping posture, 512 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: sigh and reply to everything with a dismal voice, and 513 00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,920 Speaker 1: your melancholy lingers. There's no more valuable precept in moral 514 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: education than this, as all who have experience no. If 515 00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: we wish to conquer undesirable emotional tendencies in ourselves, we 516 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 1: must assiduously and in the first instance, cold bloodedly go 517 00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: through the outward movements of these contrary dispositions which we 518 00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:29,040 Speaker 1: prefer to cultivate. So this is sort of the origin 519 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: of fake until you make it right yeah, or um yeah, 520 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: or telling people to smile and they'll be happy. I mean, 521 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: it's uh yeah, this this, I mean, he puts it 522 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: so well, and my my response is both yes and no, 523 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 1: like you know this, this feels absolutely true, but also, 524 00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: like you know, so many different objections pop up as well. 525 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: I mean, for starters, just the idea of like, refused 526 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,680 Speaker 1: to express a passion and it dies. I mean that 527 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: runs counter to a lot of at least you know, 528 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 1: so certainly to the advice that is often given about 529 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,479 Speaker 1: passions and how we should not bury them inside of us, 530 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: because it won't die if it is buried inside us, 531 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: that it will find a way out, and it might 532 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 1: not find its way out in in a in a 533 00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,520 Speaker 1: way or at least at a time that is uh, 534 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: that that that that is beneficial. Well, I I am 535 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: also of two minds about this, um and the idea 536 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: of yeah, refused to expression express a passion and it dies. Um. 537 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: I think I've talked on the podcast before about how 538 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 1: I'm often skeptical of the benefits of what people call venting, 539 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: though at the same time, I don't think it's good to, 540 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 1: you know, have strong feelings about something and have nobody 541 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,040 Speaker 1: to talk to them about, you know, and when you 542 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: can't talk about something that is psychologically stressful, it's a 543 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,320 Speaker 1: burden on you. And so like, on one hand, you 544 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 1: do need to be able to talk about things, But 545 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: there's this thing people call venting, which is like something 546 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: is bothering them and they just like continually express their 547 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,800 Speaker 1: frustration and a kind of repetitive pattern about it. I 548 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: tend to notice throughout my life that this, in myself 549 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,680 Speaker 1: and in others, this doesn't actually make you feel better. 550 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: That the venting process, I think most of the time 551 00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,760 Speaker 1: just makes you matter and matter You work yourself up 552 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,920 Speaker 1: into a state where the problem assumes a larger posture 553 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,840 Speaker 1: than it did to begin with, and you're talking about 554 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,560 Speaker 1: like speaking aloud. That's sort of venting, because it seems 555 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: like that sort of a venting has a very has 556 00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: a lot in common with the things that go on 557 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,280 Speaker 1: inside the mind and the default mode network. As we 558 00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,160 Speaker 1: ruminate over something some worry we we we kind of 559 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:40,040 Speaker 1: rehearse for disasters, for example, or we um we essentially 560 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: fantasize about terrible things occurring, and um, you know it's 561 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of the same practice, right, I mean, 562 00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: it's uh, you know, it's it's filling your mind with 563 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: some sort of negative outcome, be be it, you know, 564 00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,280 Speaker 1: you yelling at somebody or um, you know, we're bad 565 00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: things happening to you, kind of rehear source for disaster. Yeah, 566 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,040 Speaker 1: the psychological process of rumination where you where you just 567 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,360 Speaker 1: like rehearse the worst possible scenarios in your mind over 568 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: and over again is terrible. But then the idea here, though, 569 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: is there could be like a feedback loop if you're 570 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: actually if if you're expressing it bodily and facially, then 571 00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: it's just gonna potentially make things worse. Yeah, um, and 572 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 1: I do think to some extent that's true. So yeah, 573 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 1: obviously we're dealing with something that's very complicated and that's 574 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: not a surprise because it involves emotions. I think emotions 575 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: are I mean, we'll go ahead and say today, emotions 576 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,800 Speaker 1: are one of the most difficult things to study scientifically, 577 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: I think, um and and so studies about them are 578 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: often plagued with problems of inconsistency and how the emotions 579 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 1: are characterized, how they're measured, How exactly do you quantify 580 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,920 Speaker 1: emotional states. It's one of the most difficult problems in 581 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: all of science. I think, Yeah, how do you even 582 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: agree on the basic terminology? And then if you end 583 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: up creating something that seems like a useful explanation, is 584 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,560 Speaker 1: it ultimately just kind of you know, a system of 585 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 1: metaphors to try and make sense of this thing. You know, 586 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of like the movie, the Pixar movie inside Out. 587 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,360 Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it. A wonderful movie about about emotions, uh, 588 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, but ultimately like there are not you know, 589 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: a series of individuals inside of your head arguing with 590 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,520 Speaker 1: each other and going on adventures. Uh. So you know 591 00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:20,280 Speaker 1: you worry too about like to what extent you end 592 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:22,440 Speaker 1: up like going too far in one of these directions 593 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: and in really trying to uh you know, apply language 594 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 1: to the the the n language complexity of the mind. 595 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: But obviously, then again, emotions are one of the most 596 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:37,560 Speaker 1: important features of our entire lives, and so psychology should 597 00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:39,960 Speaker 1: be taking a crack and understanding them. And so I 598 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: guess that brings us back to the back to this 599 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:46,680 Speaker 1: question of the facial feedback hypothesis. If it's true that 600 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: movements of the facial muscles or facial expressions do contribute 601 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: to our underlying emotional states, they don't just follow from them, 602 00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: but they feed back into them and in some way 603 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,720 Speaker 1: control them. Is the evidence for that? Is there evidence 604 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,920 Speaker 1: that that's true? And I guess that's what we should 605 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: discuss next. So one thing we absolutely do not lack 606 00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: for is studies on this subject. The facial feedback hypothesis 607 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: is huge, and it's a very complicated subject with a 608 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,560 Speaker 1: massive and conflicting research history. There's no way to discuss 609 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:21,319 Speaker 1: all these studies. But in a minute we will be 610 00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 1: looking at a recent meta analysis paper that sort of 611 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,960 Speaker 1: gives an overview of these findings. Now, one thing is 612 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 1: like problems with methodology we were just alluding to, and 613 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,040 Speaker 1: how you study things like the relationship between facial expressions 614 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: and emotions. Of course, you can just ask people to 615 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,880 Speaker 1: smile or frown or do things with their face and 616 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,719 Speaker 1: then ask them how they feel. But these kinds of 617 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,000 Speaker 1: experiments would have some obvious limitations, right like if people 618 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: are aware of being asked to smile, uh this knowledge 619 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:54,200 Speaker 1: could change how they report their feelings and it could 620 00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: buyas the results. You could have acquiescence bias, where you know, 621 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,480 Speaker 1: people in an experiment tend to just sort of try 622 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,720 Speaker 1: to figure out what the experimenters want and give them 623 00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:07,520 Speaker 1: those types of results, or more generally, what are referred 624 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:13,280 Speaker 1: to UH as demand characteristics where but where things emerge 625 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 1: in the research environment that would not emerge naturally. So 626 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: different tests devised over the years have tried to get 627 00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 1: around this a number of ways, trying to like contort 628 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: the facial muscles and see if that does something to 629 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,960 Speaker 1: emotional states without just saying, hey, you know, could you 630 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: please frown for a minute and then we're gonna ask 631 00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 1: you to do a questionnaire. So, like, one type of 632 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: thing is the pin in the mouth study. So here's 633 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: one where you put a pin either between your lips 634 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:42,360 Speaker 1: or you put a pin between your teeth. When you 635 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 1: put a pin between your lips. It just happens to 636 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 1: form your face into a frown. When you put a 637 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,439 Speaker 1: pin between your teeth, it happens to induce the same 638 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,399 Speaker 1: muscles that you would use in a smile. So that's 639 00:35:53,400 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 1: been used in a number of studies. Another thing is 640 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: like asking participants to say a lot of certain vowels. 641 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: For example, awe sounds incidentally produced smile posture and oh 642 00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:09,800 Speaker 1: sounds incidentally produced frown posture. And some research has found, 643 00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 1: for example, that awe sounds people make people self report 644 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,759 Speaker 1: more happy or pleasant feelings. And I've even seen this 645 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 1: connected to the prevalence of awe sounds and religious chance. 646 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 1: I thought it was kind of an interesting uh idea there, 647 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: like a halla, hallelujah kind of all kinds of I 648 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:31,360 Speaker 1: mean that awe sounds are more prevalent around the world 649 00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: in religious chants than ow sounds. And this could be 650 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: because they induce more pleasant mental states. Now where does 651 00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: own fall them? I hopefully am would be between the 652 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 1: two right, Well maybe, But out of this this huge 653 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: history of of all these different studies, uh, just this 654 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,279 Speaker 1: year we got this big meta analysis pulled together tabulating 655 00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,640 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty eight different studies on the effect. 656 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 1: It was by Nicholas A. Coles, Jeff T. Larson, and 657 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,720 Speaker 1: Heathersea Lynch, published in Psychology Coal Bulletin in twenty nineteen. 658 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,520 Speaker 1: And so, okay, you might think that given that many 659 00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: studies a hundred and thirty eight studies, now we should 660 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,239 Speaker 1: have a really solid body of evidence converging on a 661 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:14,760 Speaker 1: clear consensus answer. Uh And in one broad sense that's true, 662 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: and in many more specific senses it's not true to 663 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: quote the authors here. Unfortunately, more than a centuries worth 664 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: of research has not yet clarified whether facial feedback effects 665 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: are reliable. For example, researchers have produced a variety of 666 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:32,480 Speaker 1: theoretical disagreements about when facial feedback effects should emerge, but 667 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,840 Speaker 1: it remains unclear which, if any of these theories are correct. Furthermore, 668 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:41,080 Speaker 1: seventeen labs recently found that even the most seminal demonstration 669 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: of facial feedback effects is not clearly replicable. Uh So, 670 00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: and this was a big problem. So like one of 671 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,319 Speaker 1: the biggest studies it was, it was a pin in 672 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: the mouth study that found that, you know, putting a 673 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,200 Speaker 1: pin between the teeth made people report more happy emotions 674 00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,720 Speaker 1: than putting it between the lips. Uh that that was big, 675 00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 1: But then just recently a bunch of abs tried to 676 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,399 Speaker 1: replicate it and they couldn't. So here here's this big 677 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: question what all these studies add up to. So here's 678 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,799 Speaker 1: where this new meta analysis comes in. Quote amid this uncertainty, 679 00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: we provide a narrative review of research on the facial 680 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: feedback hypothesis and a meta analysis of all available experimental evidence. 681 00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: So they're pulling all the studies together and trying to 682 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 1: see if they can crunch the numbers and figure out 683 00:38:23,239 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: what is shown overall. So I think maybe we should 684 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:27,960 Speaker 1: take another break and then when we come back we 685 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:34,439 Speaker 1: can get into the results of this study. Alright, we're back. 686 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: So yeah, we're looking at a meta analysis of all 687 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,280 Speaker 1: of these uh, these different studies about facial feedback hypothesis 688 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,680 Speaker 1: and hopefully like some sense will emerge from it. All right, 689 00:38:45,840 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: they we'll have some some some some general um you know, 690 00:38:49,480 --> 00:38:51,759 Speaker 1: ideas that we can draw from it. Right, we will 691 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:55,200 Speaker 1: get some we there are other things that are left unanswered. 692 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: So one of the things is that we we alluded 693 00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: to all these different problems and how you study something 694 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:04,360 Speaker 1: like the facial feedback hypothesis. Uh. Like, the authors identify 695 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: four major theoretical disagreements in how people even approach the 696 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,759 Speaker 1: subject to begin with, I'll try to simplify them as 697 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: briefly as I can. One is modulation versus initiation. Okay, 698 00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,600 Speaker 1: So one one view says that emotions are maintained and 699 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,760 Speaker 1: modulated by body expression. So you're genuinely happy, You're feeling happy, 700 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,640 Speaker 1: and that makes you smile, and then the smile can 701 00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:32,120 Speaker 1: maintain and intensify the happiness, or suppressing the smile can 702 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: put a damper on the happiness. This is the modulation hypothesis. Meanwhile, 703 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:39,600 Speaker 1: the other view would say that at least some emotions 704 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:43,080 Speaker 1: can be created out of nothing with facial feedback alone. 705 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,440 Speaker 1: So maybe you're feeling neutral, but you make yourself frowned 706 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,360 Speaker 1: for five minutes and you actually end up feeling sad. 707 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:53,120 Speaker 1: This is the initiation hypothesis. So the author's note something 708 00:39:53,160 --> 00:39:56,800 Speaker 1: interesting here that maybe we wouldn't have thought about otherwise. Uh. 709 00:39:56,840 --> 00:40:01,000 Speaker 1: They know that this distinction assumes that emotional experiences have 710 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,719 Speaker 1: a beginning and an ending, that they are discreet rather 711 00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:09,120 Speaker 1: than continuous and always in flux. Like, if you feel happy, 712 00:40:09,280 --> 00:40:12,480 Speaker 1: can you pinpoint the moment when you started feeling happy 713 00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,880 Speaker 1: And was there no happiness before or was it just 714 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,719 Speaker 1: something that got turned up in amplitude? But was there before? Uh? 715 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,160 Speaker 1: This is an interesting question, Like our emotions discrete things 716 00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:26,120 Speaker 1: that can begin an end, or they part of a 717 00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:30,719 Speaker 1: continuous media that's always in flux with maybe uh, And 718 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:33,080 Speaker 1: of course if they are, there's maybe no difference between 719 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:36,320 Speaker 1: initiation and modulation. Yeah, it makes me think it's like 720 00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,040 Speaker 1: it's like a flow state and non emotional state. I've 721 00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:41,440 Speaker 1: never heard it put like that. I don't have to 722 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: think about that because generally when I think about being 723 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,680 Speaker 1: in a flow state, I think about it being happiness, 724 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:50,759 Speaker 1: because like it's you're content, you're not you know, you're 725 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: totally wrapped up in the task at hand and you're 726 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,839 Speaker 1: not uh, you know, thinking about anything else. But then again, 727 00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 1: is it is it really happiness or is it like 728 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 1: just sort of removal from the uh, you know, the 729 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,320 Speaker 1: wheel of emotions to some extent, disengaging from the default 730 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: mode network, that's for sure. Uh. Yeah, And the default 731 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,840 Speaker 1: mode network sometimes just seems like kind of a roulette 732 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,359 Speaker 1: wheel of emotions stuff. It's just spin it and let's 733 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:15,719 Speaker 1: just see what what the what the universe has for 734 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 1: me right now? Am I gonna be happy in the 735 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,719 Speaker 1: next minute? Or sad? It's like you or and feel 736 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:22,520 Speaker 1: like I just I have no idea for me. It's 737 00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: like which of your failures would you like to contemplate? Default? Okay, 738 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: so next you've got discreet versus dimensional emotional experience. So 739 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:39,439 Speaker 1: our happiness, anger, sadness all that? Are they discrete categories? 740 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,480 Speaker 1: Do these basic emotions exist as sort of separate programs 741 00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,719 Speaker 1: within the brain or can they all be reduced to 742 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:51,880 Speaker 1: some underlying phenomena presenting at different levels of intensity and valence. 743 00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: So the basic idea here is like, imagine you've got 744 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,480 Speaker 1: a couple of sliders in your brain. One is a 745 00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 1: slider that's the valence, is this positive or negati? And 746 00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:03,560 Speaker 1: then the other slider is the level of arousal. Are 747 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:07,000 Speaker 1: you high high arousal or low arousal? And that those 748 00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:11,279 Speaker 1: two sliders, positioned at different places, actually give you the 749 00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,440 Speaker 1: things you think of as your normal emotions. The names 750 00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: of the emotions are just sort of like categories that 751 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:20,839 Speaker 1: we apply based on contextual clues. That's a possibility. Yeah, 752 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:23,319 Speaker 1: I was thinking a little about this yesterday because I 753 00:42:23,360 --> 00:42:27,319 Speaker 1: was working on another episode's notes and I was listening 754 00:42:27,320 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 1: to a little Jackson Brown was playing um Fountain of Sorrow, 755 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: and I had to stop. It's like because I was thinking, 756 00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:36,839 Speaker 1: is this is this song making me feel good or bad? 757 00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:39,879 Speaker 1: Is it making me happy or sad? It's like it's 758 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,200 Speaker 1: but it's neither, you know, it's it's this mix of both. 759 00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,640 Speaker 1: Like it's a kind of a sad bittersweet song that's 760 00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,160 Speaker 1: beautifully recorded and I have you know, nostalgia for it, 761 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,359 Speaker 1: but it's also you know, it's complicated. Yeah, there are 762 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:54,280 Speaker 1: a lot of moments where you can start to wonder 763 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:57,720 Speaker 1: if this is I think sometimes called like the constructionist 764 00:42:57,840 --> 00:43:01,560 Speaker 1: or core affect uh idea of emotions where they're not 765 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,640 Speaker 1: these discrete programs running in the brain, but they they're 766 00:43:04,680 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: the same thing. They're the same part of the same 767 00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,960 Speaker 1: continuous quantity. And we just like apply categories to different 768 00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: zones on this graph basically uh and and depending on 769 00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: what the contextual clues are, because one level of high 770 00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:23,000 Speaker 1: arousal and negative emotion in one state might feel like, 771 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: you know, like anger and agitation, and in another state 772 00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:30,800 Speaker 1: it might be more like sadness, intense sadness. But obviously, 773 00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: you know, I don't know which of these theories of 774 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,120 Speaker 1: emotion is the correct one. But that's another thing that's 775 00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:39,080 Speaker 1: at play, and all these studies, people are working off 776 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:42,040 Speaker 1: different theories of emotion when they're trying to study whether 777 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 1: emotions can be modulated or caused by facial movements. Next 778 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:51,640 Speaker 1: big question is awareness involved. If facial feedback does influence 779 00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,520 Speaker 1: our emotions, do you have to be consciously aware of 780 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,800 Speaker 1: the face you're making or how you're moving your muscles, 781 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,320 Speaker 1: Like I feel myself smiling. I know that smile els 782 00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,520 Speaker 1: mean happiness, so I feel happy? Or do these facial 783 00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:07,799 Speaker 1: movements if the facial feedback hypothesis is correct, do these 784 00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:12,279 Speaker 1: facial movements influence our emotions unconsciously through uh, you know, 785 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:17,319 Speaker 1: through feedback mechanisms that happen outside of our awareness. Huh. Well, 786 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,279 Speaker 1: in my experience, for whatever that's worth, I find that 787 00:44:20,719 --> 00:44:23,600 Speaker 1: being aware of your happiness is once you're fire away 788 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: to potentially bring it down. You know. It's a good point, 789 00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,640 Speaker 1: like so, but but then again, I don't know how 790 00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: that but that actually relates to naither research here. Well, 791 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,839 Speaker 1: it's it's it's hard to think yourself happy, but it's 792 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: pretty easy to think yourself sad. Now, one thing we 793 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,640 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier is like some of those studies are are 794 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,480 Speaker 1: aimed at trying to show that the the effect happens 795 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: without conscious awareness, Like the pin in the mouth study. Right, 796 00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,040 Speaker 1: If you put a pin between people's teeth and that 797 00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: makes them feel happier, obviously they're not going to be 798 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,239 Speaker 1: aware of the fact that they're smiling. They've just got 799 00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:58,920 Speaker 1: a pin in their teeth. Uh, So that for what? 800 00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: And there were study that showed something like that, I 801 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,160 Speaker 1: think back in the nineteen eighties. However, that was the 802 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,919 Speaker 1: study that failed replication in recent years, so people tried 803 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,000 Speaker 1: to do the experiment again didn't get the same result. 804 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: That means that either there was something wrong with the 805 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:15,560 Speaker 1: initial experiment or with all the replication attempts, or they 806 00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: could both be sound but arriving at different results because 807 00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,839 Speaker 1: there's some important difference that's not being controlled for their 808 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:24,759 Speaker 1: So that that's something I don't know the answer to yet. 809 00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:26,440 Speaker 1: I think I saw there might be a study that 810 00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: was trying to resolve whatever difference was going on there, 811 00:45:29,680 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: but but I I didn't have time to look into that. 812 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,120 Speaker 1: One more big question, does facial feedback have an effect 813 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,160 Speaker 1: on affective judgments, so not just how you feel, but 814 00:45:40,239 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: what you think about other things. You know, third parties, 815 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: What what do you think about this cup? What do 816 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:47,959 Speaker 1: you think about this microphone? I'm sorry that a cup 817 00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,160 Speaker 1: is so often an example that we invoke on in 818 00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,799 Speaker 1: the moment here, and it's either going to be that 819 00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,920 Speaker 1: or the foam soundproofing board. So so, but what do 820 00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: you think about these things? So, if our facial expressions 821 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,799 Speaker 1: modulate our emotions, do they do just that or do 822 00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,000 Speaker 1: they also change the ways that we make judgments about 823 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:10,920 Speaker 1: these external objects, people and and situations. And the authors 824 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,359 Speaker 1: called this the affective judgments hypothesis. Uh dos frowning make 825 00:46:15,480 --> 00:46:19,239 Speaker 1: you view another person more negatively? So obviously, all these 826 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:22,760 Speaker 1: theoretical disagreements make a meta analysis of the facial feedback 827 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:26,759 Speaker 1: hypothesis really difficult because despite how many studies there are now, 828 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,759 Speaker 1: they're not all testing exactly the same thing. They're not 829 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,120 Speaker 1: all working from the same theoretical framework. So the authors 830 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:35,919 Speaker 1: had to like code for all these differences in what's 831 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,520 Speaker 1: being tested in each study, as well as lots of 832 00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,720 Speaker 1: other moderators, including how the facial feedback was manipulated. For example, 833 00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:44,840 Speaker 1: you know, the pin and the teeth, or just asking 834 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,879 Speaker 1: people to do a facial pose, or even uh, experimenting 835 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,800 Speaker 1: with people who have had botoxic injections that restrict facial movement. 836 00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: That's an interesting one, yeah. Uh. And then other moderators 837 00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,680 Speaker 1: like the timing of measurement, uh, the gender for example, 838 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,080 Speaker 1: some earlier research found that maybe men were more susceptible 839 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:05,680 Speaker 1: to body feedback on average than women. Uh, And whether 840 00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:09,719 Speaker 1: subjects were aware of being video recorded and things like that. 841 00:47:10,239 --> 00:47:13,000 Speaker 1: All right, so time for the results. Uh. The I 842 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,800 Speaker 1: would say the top line here is that some facial 843 00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,040 Speaker 1: feedback effects seem to be real, but the effect is 844 00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 1: not huge. The overall body of research suggests that the 845 00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,560 Speaker 1: effect is real, it is significant, but it's relatively small, 846 00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:31,880 Speaker 1: and it's variable based on a lot of different things, 847 00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: like on these theoretical disagreements and moderating variables that we 848 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,960 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier. So just a few key selections from the 849 00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:42,200 Speaker 1: specifics of the results. Uh. One is this question about 850 00:47:42,239 --> 00:47:48,040 Speaker 1: initiation versus modulation, Right, can facial feedback only influence pre 851 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,800 Speaker 1: existing emotions or can it actually create new emotional experiences 852 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,880 Speaker 1: from a starting neutral state? And the evidence shows it 853 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:59,320 Speaker 1: can definitely do both. In fact, contrary to many historical 854 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:03,800 Speaker 1: predictions and assumptions, the initiation of emotions through facial posing 855 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,600 Speaker 1: is pretty well supported by evidence and seems to be 856 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: pretty easy to demonstrate. So it's not just the modulation 857 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 1: of what you're already feeling. You They've shown a bunch 858 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:15,279 Speaker 1: of times now that you can just take people, make 859 00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:17,719 Speaker 1: them do a facial pose, and it does sort of 860 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,600 Speaker 1: generate an emotion from out of nowhere. However, there is 861 00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,879 Speaker 1: more evidence for some emotions than others, like that there 862 00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,440 Speaker 1: is evidence of a small facial feedback effect for most emotions, 863 00:48:28,480 --> 00:48:32,160 Speaker 1: but not for a couple of key ones, surprise and fear. 864 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: So people who make a happy face, the evidence shows, 865 00:48:37,080 --> 00:48:39,799 Speaker 1: on average, will tend to feel more happy. But if 866 00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:42,640 Speaker 1: you make a surprised face or a fearful face, there 867 00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:44,799 Speaker 1: is not yet good evidence that you will feel those 868 00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:48,759 Speaker 1: two emotions. Though the authors caution this conclusion because they 869 00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:50,920 Speaker 1: say there aren't a whole lot of studies on the 870 00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:55,080 Speaker 1: feedback effect for fear and surprise. Somehow, I can really 871 00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,440 Speaker 1: see how this would be the case for surprise. I 872 00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: don't know how you could simulate prize just by putting 873 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,640 Speaker 1: a surprise face on the surprise seems so much more 874 00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:08,440 Speaker 1: really dependent on actual facts of your surroundings. Yeah, I 875 00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:10,080 Speaker 1: wonder if if part of this might be that they're 876 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:11,880 Speaker 1: just you know, if we go back to you know 877 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:14,880 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about with Graziano and his um um, 878 00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:18,600 Speaker 1: you know, monkey A and monkey B scenario. Um, Like, 879 00:49:18,960 --> 00:49:22,960 Speaker 1: is there ever a necessity to to fake surprise? I mean, 880 00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:25,239 Speaker 1: certainly if there's a surprise birthday party and you knew 881 00:49:25,239 --> 00:49:28,040 Speaker 1: about it and you're like, oh yeah, or your people 882 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: suck at that, right, Yeah, I mean we we do, 883 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: like when you I think most of us, if we 884 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,480 Speaker 1: were asked to fake surprise, we would we would have 885 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,520 Speaker 1: a hard time doing anything convincing, you know, like it's 886 00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:40,399 Speaker 1: generally the kind of thing where again it's a it's 887 00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,000 Speaker 1: a surprise party that you knew about, or you're humoring 888 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,680 Speaker 1: like a child's um uh you know game, you know, 889 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,719 Speaker 1: of of scaring you or something, whereas faking um you know, 890 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:54,839 Speaker 1: these other emotions would have much more advantage and are 891 00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:59,600 Speaker 1: much more a part of the human emotional deception tool chest. Yeah, 892 00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: I think that it's right, though, I just do want 893 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:03,839 Speaker 1: to reiterate again their their caution that this may just 894 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: be because there are fewer studies on on these emotions, 895 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: and we don't know that in a really strong way. 896 00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:12,200 Speaker 1: But the evidence for those two emotions is not as 897 00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,040 Speaker 1: strong as it is for all the others. Right, Like, 898 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,920 Speaker 1: I don't know that I've ever been though accused of 899 00:50:16,920 --> 00:50:20,279 Speaker 1: faking fear, you know, like no one said, No one's 900 00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:21,759 Speaker 1: ever written in into the show and said you, I 901 00:50:21,800 --> 00:50:23,799 Speaker 1: don't think you were really afraid when you were talking 902 00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,760 Speaker 1: about this particular frightening concept. I think you're faking your fear. 903 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:30,239 Speaker 1: I've never thought about this before. But what emotion is 904 00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:35,000 Speaker 1: most often acted badly in movies? What emotion are people 905 00:50:35,080 --> 00:50:39,759 Speaker 1: the worst at trying to portray in a fictional scenario? Oh? Man, 906 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:42,600 Speaker 1: I've seen them. I've seen them all done poorly, and 907 00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:47,320 Speaker 1: it contains spectacular in any case. I mean, with fear 908 00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:50,720 Speaker 1: and surprise, you know, we can certainly think to really 909 00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: affect like when it's done well throughout, whatever acting method 910 00:50:55,040 --> 00:50:57,080 Speaker 1: is employed, like, it really sticks in your mind. It's 911 00:50:57,080 --> 00:50:59,440 Speaker 1: a reason that we mean, how many of us right 912 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: now are thinking of Donald Sutherland from the the An 913 00:51:03,760 --> 00:51:05,680 Speaker 1: Invasion of the Body Snatchers film. You know, it's such 914 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: an iconic cinematic Uh, you know, moment of just absolute 915 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:12,680 Speaker 1: um fear, right. But a lot of directors actually go 916 00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,680 Speaker 1: out of their way to create real surprises on sets 917 00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:17,520 Speaker 1: for the actors when they want to get a truly 918 00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,800 Speaker 1: shocked and surprised response. Like I'm thinking of the scene 919 00:51:20,800 --> 00:51:25,080 Speaker 1: and Alien where the thing bursts out of John Hurt's chest. Uh, 920 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,760 Speaker 1: you know the first time the actors didn't know exactly 921 00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:29,480 Speaker 1: what was going to happen in that scene. I think 922 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,239 Speaker 1: they thought something was going to happen, but they didn't 923 00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,800 Speaker 1: have all the details. I think an important thing that 924 00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,000 Speaker 1: Ridley Scott was going for there was trying to make 925 00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,120 Speaker 1: sure that they got a real look of shock on 926 00:51:40,160 --> 00:51:43,440 Speaker 1: their faces. May because even though they were all great actors, 927 00:51:43,440 --> 00:51:46,080 Speaker 1: he didn't trust them enough with surprise. Yeah, I mean 928 00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:49,040 Speaker 1: there are there are a number of different filmmaking stories 929 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,200 Speaker 1: about that right where where you end up having this 930 00:51:51,560 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: rift between the actors and the director because the director 931 00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:57,960 Speaker 1: assumes that they need to pull some sort of stunt 932 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:00,560 Speaker 1: to get that kind of emotion out of them. Was 933 00:52:00,600 --> 00:52:04,359 Speaker 1: it the Exorcist where they were allegations or stories about 934 00:52:04,560 --> 00:52:08,440 Speaker 1: like firing uh, like a firearm being discharged on the 935 00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,200 Speaker 1: set to make all the actors beyond edge. Yeah, there 936 00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:12,880 Speaker 1: are a lot of bad stories about the production of 937 00:52:12,920 --> 00:52:17,120 Speaker 1: The Exorcist. Okay, okay, we got to get back to this. 938 00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:19,920 Speaker 1: So um a couple more things in their results. Is 939 00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:22,359 Speaker 1: awareness necessary? Do you have to be aware that you're 940 00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,279 Speaker 1: expressing an emotion on your face for the expression to 941 00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:28,719 Speaker 1: influence your feelings? The results did not demonstrate that you 942 00:52:28,760 --> 00:52:31,279 Speaker 1: have to be aware, but they also don't disconfirm there 943 00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:35,040 Speaker 1: might be some role for self perception in some cases. Uh. 944 00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:40,240 Speaker 1: Do facial movements influence affective judgments? You know, judging other things? 945 00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,960 Speaker 1: The authors found that this question, unlike the general question 946 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,239 Speaker 1: of facial feedback, suffered from publication bias uh and so. 947 00:52:48,360 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: And that's, of course, when studies confirming and effect are 948 00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,839 Speaker 1: more likely to be published than the same studies if 949 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,600 Speaker 1: they had disconfirmed the effect, uh and so. When that 950 00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:02,720 Speaker 1: bias was corrected for, the results did not yet indicate 951 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:06,960 Speaker 1: strong evidence for facial expressions changing affect of judgment. However, 952 00:53:07,000 --> 00:53:11,040 Speaker 1: the authors caution against abandoning this line of inquiry because 953 00:53:11,080 --> 00:53:14,200 Speaker 1: this one could be highly context dependent. They point out 954 00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,840 Speaker 1: that there's some other research in psychology that suggests emotions 955 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,600 Speaker 1: only change our judgments about external stimuli in some contexts, 956 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:26,960 Speaker 1: maybe like when emotion seems relevant to the thing you're judging. 957 00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:31,799 Speaker 1: More research is needed here to invoke a cliche. But 958 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:34,320 Speaker 1: then then they also talk about how their findings interact 959 00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,440 Speaker 1: with some competing psychological theories on the nature of emotion, 960 00:53:37,480 --> 00:53:40,200 Speaker 1: like we talked about earlier. Um, you know that this 961 00:53:40,320 --> 00:53:43,080 Speaker 1: question of our emotions like happiness and anger and fear 962 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,680 Speaker 1: discrete programs within the brain, or are the contextual categorizations 963 00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:52,399 Speaker 1: of different variations of intensity and valance with this more 964 00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:55,759 Speaker 1: basic core affect And the results of the meta analysis 965 00:53:55,800 --> 00:53:59,040 Speaker 1: show that facial feedback can influence not only reports of 966 00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:02,399 Speaker 1: basic emotions, but dimensional reports that would be in line 967 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,160 Speaker 1: with the theory of emotions more based on core affect. 968 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,640 Speaker 1: So facial feedback doesn't really solve this question. As best 969 00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:10,960 Speaker 1: I can tell, it could be consistent with either way 970 00:54:10,960 --> 00:54:14,360 Speaker 1: of looking at what emotions are uh. They also found 971 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:18,440 Speaker 1: that results even within the same categories were fairly variable, 972 00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,160 Speaker 1: suggesting that there were influences on these effects that are 973 00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,879 Speaker 1: not recorded in the data and that they weren't able 974 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 1: to test. And one example they give of what this 975 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:31,080 Speaker 1: might be is perhaps facial feedback effects are stronger in 976 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,399 Speaker 1: populations that are on average more quote attentive to their 977 00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:40,200 Speaker 1: bodily cues, including but not limited to appropriate receptive cues 978 00:54:40,280 --> 00:54:43,920 Speaker 1: from the face. And of course, appropriate reception is our sensation. 979 00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,120 Speaker 1: You know, when we have more than five senses, right, 980 00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:48,239 Speaker 1: it's one of the body senses that lets us know 981 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,520 Speaker 1: where the parts of our body are. It's how you 982 00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:52,600 Speaker 1: can know where your hands are even when your eyes 983 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:56,520 Speaker 1: are closed. Um. And so it's this part of this 984 00:54:56,560 --> 00:54:59,919 Speaker 1: appropriate receptive sense. Uh and and this could be an 985 00:54:59,800 --> 00:55:02,520 Speaker 1: in fluencing factor. But the studies, of course haven't tried 986 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,279 Speaker 1: to record or measure this. And I take this to 987 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,040 Speaker 1: mean that people who have stronger senses of inter reception 988 00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:12,919 Speaker 1: in general, the sensations within their own bodies, those people 989 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,920 Speaker 1: might be more sensitive to feelings created by the movements 990 00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,719 Speaker 1: of the muscles in their face. And they also cite 991 00:55:19,760 --> 00:55:24,040 Speaker 1: maybe different exclusion criteria on different studies could have influenced 992 00:55:24,040 --> 00:55:26,640 Speaker 1: why some of the results are so variable. But they 993 00:55:26,640 --> 00:55:29,120 Speaker 1: say in the end that quote, the cumulative evidence to 994 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:33,640 Speaker 1: date suggests that facial feedback does indeed influence emotional experience, 995 00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:36,840 Speaker 1: given all the caveats we just talked about. So I 996 00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,719 Speaker 1: think that's interesting. So like, what are some takeaways from 997 00:55:40,719 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: this number one? We don't know yet when and why 998 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:46,280 Speaker 1: the effects will be largest, and in general the effects 999 00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:49,160 Speaker 1: are real but kind of small. Though you could see 1000 00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,680 Speaker 1: how this knowledge could be applied to some kind of 1001 00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:55,880 Speaker 1: therapeutic uses. I think we probably don't know enough about 1002 00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,719 Speaker 1: it to to use it most effectively that way yet. 1003 00:55:58,880 --> 00:56:01,239 Speaker 1: But say, if you are trying ring to testincy, you know, 1004 00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:04,040 Speaker 1: could I make myself feel better by just making my 1005 00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:07,359 Speaker 1: face smile? It's it's at least one of those things 1006 00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,600 Speaker 1: where I think the risks and downsides associated with trying 1007 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:13,920 Speaker 1: that out are probably extremely low, right, I mean, especially 1008 00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:16,440 Speaker 1: if you're not like to come back to the yoga example, 1009 00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:20,080 Speaker 1: like if one does experiment with smiling during certain poses, 1010 00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,360 Speaker 1: like you're not you're you're also doing all the yoga, 1011 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:25,959 Speaker 1: you're doing the you know, there's also the experience of say, 1012 00:56:26,239 --> 00:56:28,520 Speaker 1: you know, working with the teacher, of being in the space. 1013 00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,319 Speaker 1: They're all these other factors that are contributing, and you're 1014 00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:33,879 Speaker 1: not going to make or break it uh necessarily by 1015 00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:38,800 Speaker 1: engaging and UH and this smiling exercise. UH. Likewise, I 1016 00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:41,080 Speaker 1: should point out though that that there are other things 1017 00:56:41,160 --> 00:56:43,560 Speaker 1: that exercise the one does with your your face that 1018 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,279 Speaker 1: I would that could possibly play a role here, being, 1019 00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:50,360 Speaker 1: for instance, just moving your face around in hot ways, 1020 00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,399 Speaker 1: or making what is referred to his lion face, where 1021 00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,719 Speaker 1: you just make an exaggerated like uh, you know, childish, 1022 00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:01,040 Speaker 1: cartoonish monster face out of your own face, and like 1023 00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:03,239 Speaker 1: that can be kind of a way of potentially just 1024 00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,879 Speaker 1: like clearing whatever is physically going on with your face 1025 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,200 Speaker 1: that could be exerting this mild influence on your emotional disposition. Yeah, well, 1026 00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,640 Speaker 1: I I wouldn't be surprised if there could be like 1027 00:57:13,680 --> 00:57:16,480 Speaker 1: a making monster faces in the mirror therapy kind of thing, 1028 00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,120 Speaker 1: Like you make your monster faces in the mirror, and 1029 00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:21,760 Speaker 1: then there's some kind of change in the emotional centers 1030 00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:25,800 Speaker 1: of the brain caused by these facial muscle movements. Yeah, 1031 00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:28,440 Speaker 1: Like maybe it is I'm signaling, um, I mean to 1032 00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:30,080 Speaker 1: get back to the lion thing. Maybe it is some 1033 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:34,880 Speaker 1: sort of like dominance and and um uh you know, aggression, 1034 00:57:35,280 --> 00:57:37,560 Speaker 1: it is related, or maybe it's simply like your brain 1035 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:39,360 Speaker 1: is not that familiar with it, Like do I ever 1036 00:57:39,400 --> 00:57:41,920 Speaker 1: make lion face? Uh the rest of the time in 1037 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:44,960 Speaker 1: my life? I don't think I really do. So maybe 1038 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,920 Speaker 1: my I'm just I don't have like a bunch of 1039 00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, emotional material just like lined up for that 1040 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,200 Speaker 1: particular facial feature. Yeah, and so I would emphasize again like, 1041 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:58,760 Speaker 1: obviously we don't know how effective this could be in 1042 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:00,959 Speaker 1: the long run. It like you say, you were trying 1043 00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,920 Speaker 1: to do something really serious like battle depression or something. 1044 00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,439 Speaker 1: We're not necessarily saying this is the fix because again 1045 00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:10,240 Speaker 1: the effects are small. We don't know exactly how effective 1046 00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:13,360 Speaker 1: it would be that kind of thing, or what ways, 1047 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,280 Speaker 1: what ways you could manipulate the scenario to make it 1048 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,960 Speaker 1: more effective. But like I said, this is something that 1049 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,160 Speaker 1: does seem like a very low risk kind of thing 1050 00:58:23,240 --> 00:58:25,320 Speaker 1: to try if you are trying to manipulate your own 1051 00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:28,680 Speaker 1: moods and emotions, and certainly much you know, lower risk 1052 00:58:28,720 --> 00:58:30,560 Speaker 1: than a lot of the things people actually do to 1053 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,200 Speaker 1: try to regulate their emotions, like self medicating with drugs 1054 00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,120 Speaker 1: and alcohol and all that. Right. Yeah, And of course, 1055 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:37,880 Speaker 1: you know, again, I do want to come back to 1056 00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:40,240 Speaker 1: the fact that there are cultural differences in the way 1057 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,480 Speaker 1: that we use smiles and um and react to smiles. 1058 00:58:44,040 --> 00:58:45,640 Speaker 1: So I mean that's always something to keep in mind 1059 00:58:45,680 --> 00:58:48,280 Speaker 1: as well, Like, is it a given culture aware smiling 1060 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:51,520 Speaker 1: is done more given culture or even a given individual, 1061 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,400 Speaker 1: where smiling when embarrassed and when embarrassed is more of 1062 00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:57,760 Speaker 1: a you know, a typical feature, Like how would that 1063 00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,840 Speaker 1: influence any of this? Yeah, I'm sure that could contribute. Yeah. 1064 00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:03,800 Speaker 1: And then also thinking about like the full body scenario 1065 00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:08,040 Speaker 1: we're talking about earlier with the with the the hypothetical 1066 00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:12,000 Speaker 1: apes reacting to each other, Like if if you're dealing 1067 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,560 Speaker 1: with a smile and it's just you know, some of 1068 00:59:14,600 --> 00:59:17,920 Speaker 1: these experiments and it's just isolated to the face, Uh, 1069 00:59:18,040 --> 00:59:20,800 Speaker 1: is that truly the expression or is the is this 1070 00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,120 Speaker 1: should the smile be part of a like a broader 1071 00:59:23,560 --> 00:59:27,360 Speaker 1: you know, physical manifestation. Well, another thing that makes me 1072 00:59:27,400 --> 00:59:29,600 Speaker 1: think of is uh, you know, this came up a 1073 00:59:29,600 --> 00:59:31,960 Speaker 1: little bit when we're thinking about the idea of research 1074 00:59:32,040 --> 00:59:34,680 Speaker 1: that used people who had botox injections in the face, 1075 00:59:35,280 --> 00:59:38,320 Speaker 1: uh to see you know, if that affected their emotional cognition. 1076 00:59:38,480 --> 00:59:40,880 Speaker 1: This makes me think more generally about the relationship between 1077 00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:43,640 Speaker 1: skeletal muscle in the face and throughout the body and 1078 00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,919 Speaker 1: our emotional states, and whether there could be relationships there 1079 00:59:46,960 --> 00:59:49,560 Speaker 1: that we don't fully understand yet, but that how you 1080 00:59:49,680 --> 00:59:53,240 Speaker 1: use your body contributes to your state of mind. Absolutely. 1081 00:59:53,520 --> 00:59:55,080 Speaker 1: But you know, the great thing about all this is 1082 00:59:55,120 --> 00:59:58,760 Speaker 1: that is that this is a wonderful area for individual 1083 00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:02,640 Speaker 1: experience and feedback this episode, Like everybody out there has 1084 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:06,320 Speaker 1: experienced with emotions. And have you ever smiled? Have you 1085 01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:09,320 Speaker 1: ever smiled? Um? Have you ever frowned? I mean, you know, 1086 01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:12,880 Speaker 1: we've discussed cultural differences in individual differences, so I would 1087 01:00:12,920 --> 01:00:15,200 Speaker 1: I would love to hear some details about about that 1088 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,920 Speaker 1: from folks out there. Um, you know, what are your 1089 01:00:17,960 --> 01:00:21,120 Speaker 1: experiences with being told to smile? What are your experiences 1090 01:00:21,160 --> 01:00:25,680 Speaker 1: with being you know, encouraged to smile during yoga? Or laughter? 1091 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,800 Speaker 1: Yoga is a whole other area. You're talking more about 1092 01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:31,760 Speaker 1: laughter than than just smiling alone there, But that's very 1093 01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:35,280 Speaker 1: much a situation where the idea is pretend to laugh 1094 01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:39,120 Speaker 1: until you were laughing. And I've I've I've tried that. 1095 01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,840 Speaker 1: I tried it a few times, and I find that 1096 01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:44,680 Speaker 1: it works to like a reasonable degree. Like I don't 1097 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:48,040 Speaker 1: feel like laughter has possessed me bodily, like there's some 1098 01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:51,480 Speaker 1: sort of a you know, a demon uh leeching into me. 1099 01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:56,560 Speaker 1: But I do find myself you're looking for, Well, I 1100 01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:00,560 Speaker 1: don't know, I've not that I'm necessarily look king for it, 1101 01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:05,320 Speaker 1: but I've seen I've seen people um overcome with laughter 1102 01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,760 Speaker 1: and scenarios like that. Like basically, when I was in 1103 01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,480 Speaker 1: high school, I think I visited a church with a 1104 01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:14,400 Speaker 1: friend where they were doing some form of faith healing. 1105 01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:16,080 Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the terminology is for it, but 1106 01:01:16,400 --> 01:01:20,920 Speaker 1: where an individual would be touched by the pastor and 1107 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,880 Speaker 1: instead of just simply like you know, falling to the 1108 01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:27,600 Speaker 1: floor being healed of their ailment, they would begin laughing hysterically. 1109 01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,080 Speaker 1: That was the physical manifestation of being touched with, you know, 1110 01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:35,400 Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit or whatever they the description was. So 1111 01:01:35,440 --> 01:01:38,400 Speaker 1: I guess I was kind of I could not help 1112 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,480 Speaker 1: but think of that when engaging in laughter yoga. Uh 1113 01:01:41,920 --> 01:01:43,840 Speaker 1: And and so I just want to drive home that 1114 01:01:43,960 --> 01:01:48,919 Speaker 1: my experience was not a situation of being overcome by 1115 01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,360 Speaker 1: you know, out of control laughter. But then again, the 1116 01:01:52,440 --> 01:01:55,200 Speaker 1: priming wasn't there for that to be the case either, 1117 01:01:55,840 --> 01:01:59,360 Speaker 1: So you know, could be a situation where if I 1118 01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:01,920 Speaker 1: were entering into it and people were saying, yeah, we're 1119 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:04,680 Speaker 1: gonna do laughter yoga and you're gonna lose control of 1120 01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:07,560 Speaker 1: your body, then perhaps that would be more inclined to 1121 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:12,160 Speaker 1: like to fall into that scenario. Laughter is weird. It's 1122 01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,920 Speaker 1: what I'm saying, it is. It is weird. Yeah, it's 1123 01:02:14,960 --> 01:02:17,400 Speaker 1: something we can come back to again. So yeah, if 1124 01:02:17,440 --> 01:02:19,920 Speaker 1: you have any any tidbits from your life that you 1125 01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:22,360 Speaker 1: would like to share with us, let us know. In 1126 01:02:22,400 --> 01:02:24,760 Speaker 1: the meantime, check out Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1127 01:02:24,760 --> 01:02:27,280 Speaker 1: That's the mothership. That's we will find all the episodes, 1128 01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:28,720 Speaker 1: and we want to remind you if you want to 1129 01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:32,080 Speaker 1: support this show, the best thing you can do is 1130 01:02:32,080 --> 01:02:34,680 Speaker 1: tell your friends about it, tell you know, share, share 1131 01:02:34,720 --> 01:02:37,120 Speaker 1: the episodes with people you know, but also rate and 1132 01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,240 Speaker 1: review us wherever you have the power to do so. 1133 01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,840 Speaker 1: So wherever you get this podcast, throw us some stars, 1134 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,080 Speaker 1: leave a nice comment. It really helps us out huge things. 1135 01:02:45,120 --> 01:02:48,320 Speaker 1: As always, to our excellent audio producer Terry Harrison, and 1136 01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:51,400 Speaker 1: to our guest producer today Michael. If you would like 1137 01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,680 Speaker 1: to get in touch with us today with feedback on 1138 01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:55,880 Speaker 1: this episode or any other, to suggest a topic for 1139 01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,640 Speaker 1: the future, or just to say hello, you can email 1140 01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:11,280 Speaker 1: us at contact that's Stuff to Blow your Mind dot com. 1141 01:03:11,400 --> 01:03:13,240 Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is a production of iHeart 1142 01:03:13,280 --> 01:03:15,959 Speaker 1: Radio's How Stuff Works. 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