1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:03,360 Speaker 1: This episode is brought to you by Peloton break through 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Cross Training tread Plus powered by Peloton Iq. With real 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize 5 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push 7 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,479 Speaker 1: and go. Explore the new Peloton Cross Training tread Plus 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: at one peloton dot com. 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,680 Speaker 2: What kind of a show you guys putting. 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 3: On here today? 11 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 4: You're not interested in art? 12 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,159 Speaker 2: Now we look, we're going to do this thing. We're 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: going to have a conversation. 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 4: Hey, film spotters, Josh. Here. 15 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 5: The Film Spotting Archive has reviews, top fives and more 16 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 5: going back to two thousand and five. Access to the 17 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:49,879 Speaker 5: archive is just one of the benefits you get as 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 5: a Film Spotting Family member, which you can learn more 19 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 5: about at Filmspottingfamily dot com. As you'll hear on this 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:59,959 Speaker 5: week's show, our top five Waquin Phoenix performances from two 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 5: twenty twenty three has a notable omission his performance as 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 5: Theodore in Spike Jones's Her. That's because Her was the 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:12,039 Speaker 5: subject of that month's Bonus Show plenty of discussion of 24 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:15,880 Speaker 5: his performance took place on that bonus show, so we 25 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 5: put her in the penalty box for our top five 26 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,039 Speaker 5: list that her conversation was a bonus show that only 27 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 5: went to family members. So here, for the first time 28 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:29,759 Speaker 5: in the main feed is our tenth anniversary. 29 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 4: Review of her. 30 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,880 Speaker 6: Mister Theodore Twombly, Welcome to the world's first artificially intelligent 31 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 6: operating system. We'd like to ask you a few questions. Okay, 32 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 6: are you social or anti social? 33 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 2: I guess I haven't been social while. 34 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 6: How would you describe your relationship with your mother? Thank you, 35 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:52,520 Speaker 6: Please wait as your operating system is initiated. 36 00:01:53,920 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 7: Hello, I'm here, Hi, Hi, I'm Samantha. 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 3: We're excited Josh to talk about Spike Jones's Her, a 38 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,559 Speaker 3: film that we did review together back in January twenty 39 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 3: fourteen a Fix episode reference this, I think on our 40 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 3: last show, a double feature her and Inside Lewin Davis 41 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 3: talked about those movies. We didn't have a full show 42 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 3: crossing over into the new year, but had a couple 43 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: big titles we knew we wanted to talk about, and 44 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 3: we figured our listeners would want to hear us talk 45 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: about both of those films worthy of revisits, like the 46 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 3: one we're going to give to her now upon its 47 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 3: tenth anniversary. I think the way I would start out 48 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 3: this discussion is to simply say, Spike Jones make another 49 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 3: movie challenge. 50 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, how about it. I mean, that's one of the 51 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 5: first things I looked up. And there's been what some 52 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 5: TV or is it mostly music videos TV? He was 53 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 5: doing something for Viceland. I think it has been more 54 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:58,640 Speaker 5: music videos. But four films, Josh, Is that right? We 55 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:01,639 Speaker 5: get her, maybe not going in order here, but her 56 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 5: where the wild Things are of course, adaptation and being 57 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:09,079 Speaker 5: John Malkovich. These are all really good films. Yeah, I mean, 58 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 5: I guess I can understand the temptation having done all 59 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 5: those to say I'm good. I don't know if I 60 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 5: can top any of that. But still this is a filmmaker, 61 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 5: especially after this revisit where I came away liking her 62 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 5: even a little bit more than I did initially, that 63 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,640 Speaker 5: I would love to see more of. But for now, 64 00:03:26,960 --> 00:03:29,079 Speaker 5: at least we've got her to take another look at. 65 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: I don't want to dwell on any negatives, especially as 66 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: you said, you gave it a positive review the first time, 67 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 3: but you did like it even more the second time. 68 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 3: What did you like more? And maybe what did you 69 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 3: not give enough credit to the first time around? 70 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know if I had any specific complaints. 71 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 5: I think I opened my written review at least saying 72 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 5: a little talkie. The movie's a little talkie, And of 73 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 5: course it is right, that's the nature of this narrative. 74 00:03:57,440 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 5: And maybe it was just, you know, someone as usually 75 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:04,920 Speaker 5: inventive as Spike Jones. My expectations going in perhaps is 76 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 5: what was at play there and knowing it was going 77 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 5: to be sci fi and all the different visualizations you 78 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 5: could have. 79 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,200 Speaker 4: But you know what, that's under selling what we do 80 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 4: get here. 81 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 5: It is right because the cinematographer Hot van Houtm. It's 82 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 5: it's soft sci fi the way we've talked about, say, 83 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 5: you know, after Yang, Coconaut is after Yang. 84 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: That's going to reference it too, right. 85 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 4: It's it's in. 86 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 5: The lighting, the softness of the lighting, the softness of 87 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,919 Speaker 5: the costume design, the colors here, the color scheme, and 88 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 5: these are all things I did appreciate to a degree 89 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 5: when I first saw it. I described the pastel hughes 90 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 5: as like candy hearts that have gotten old and lost 91 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 5: their pop and what I was trying to get at 92 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 5: there is this is a movie that had it's wistful, 93 00:04:52,839 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 5: it's sad, but it's also full of possibility and it's 94 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 5: excited about potential, and it holds those things together. The 95 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 5: visuals do that too, So I think maybe I was 96 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 5: just expecting a different type of visuals that I didn't get, 97 00:05:07,320 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 5: and while I appreciated what I did get, should have 98 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,440 Speaker 5: maybe just set my expectations entirely aside. So yeah, that's 99 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,599 Speaker 5: kind of where the two responses compare. But overall, Adam, 100 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 5: I think what I liked about the movie better this 101 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 5: time is not worrying so much about it being what 102 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 5: is it predicting? What is it saying about where we're at, 103 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,359 Speaker 5: And having had a fair amount of what it predicts 104 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,520 Speaker 5: take place since then, I'm starting to realize this is 105 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,840 Speaker 5: a movie that's really about relational authenticity anytime, any place, 106 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:44,280 Speaker 5: any technology. I don't think this movie is that concerned 107 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:49,239 Speaker 5: about predicting anything or nailing any specific tech experience we're. 108 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 3: Having, and about growth as a human being and how 109 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 3: technology can impact that positively and negatively, and of course 110 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 3: also how you and evolved as a human being, even 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 3: if you're not actually a human being, and how those 112 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 3: two concepts interact with each other. Definitely thought about after Yang, 113 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,160 Speaker 3: because and I appreciated this the first time around as well. 114 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 3: This depiction of the future is one where it's not 115 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:23,559 Speaker 3: what we expect, in that it's neither a utopia that's 116 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: maybe truly a dystopia. Then we're gonna have some reveal 117 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: that way, or it's also not clearly a dystopia. It 118 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 3: just seems like an extension of our current world. It 119 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: seems like a near future. I can completely buy it, 120 00:06:36,440 --> 00:06:40,839 Speaker 3: and I don't question it as a near future or 121 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 3: need to be wrestling with the rules of the universe. 122 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 3: It all somehow coheres, and I think part of it is, 123 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 3: of course, what it did accurately predict. I maybe came 124 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 3: across the wrong information, but Josh, this is what I 125 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 3: found when I googled it. I was trying to look 126 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 3: up when pods are invented, when the whole idea of 127 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 3: earbuds were created, and according to what I found, it 128 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 3: was after twenty thirteen. I mean, maybe there were very 129 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:13,680 Speaker 3: early incarnations, like in the mid two thousand and four 130 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 3: two thousand and five range, but otherwise they weren't really 131 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 3: a thing until twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen around there. And 132 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 3: of course that's entirely how people in this world communicate. 133 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 3: They're really not communicating with each other at all, which 134 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 3: is very much like the world we live in right now. 135 00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 3: This feels just slightly heightened right where he's on mass 136 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: transit or he's walking in the street or walking around 137 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: his building. And it's not as if people seem crazy, 138 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 3: unhappy or dissatisfied with their lives, but they are completely 139 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: within their own universes silo, the earbuds in and they're 140 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 3: focused on whoever they're talking to digitally somehow, and not 141 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 3: the people around them. And so that that feels right. 142 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 3: And maybe I said they're not outwardly suffering necessarily, but 143 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 3: maybe just like Theodore, they're all a little bit lonely too, 144 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 3: and that's why they feel this need to have this 145 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,520 Speaker 3: constant connection to something, even if it's a voice or 146 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:18,400 Speaker 3: it's checking their email or whatever it is. And you 147 00:08:18,440 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 3: mentioned Van Houdema, the cinematographer. This is one of his 148 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:25,400 Speaker 3: early films. He hadn't done the Nolan movies yet, but 149 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: he hadn't made Tinker Tailor Soldier spy, maybe at least 150 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 3: one other film. I was looking up a detail today 151 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,840 Speaker 3: and I came across the fact that apparently this checks 152 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 3: out with my rewatch of the film. Anyway, there's no 153 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 3: blue in the movie. 154 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, that makes sense. 155 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 3: They didn't want to include a color, certainly didn't want 156 00:08:45,640 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 3: it to be dominant, but it's not in there at all. 157 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 3: They just took it out of the palette. They said, 158 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,640 Speaker 3: we're not going to use the color that's most typically 159 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 3: associated with science fiction. So as you said, we don't 160 00:08:56,360 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 3: get those blues. We instead get the reds and the 161 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: warm yellows and even some browns, those amber hues. We 162 00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:06,520 Speaker 3: do get some gray. We get some gray in the 163 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 3: buildings in the urban environment as we see the buildings 164 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 3: and those those landscapes. But it's muted. It's not techno. 165 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 3: It's not sleek at all. And that use of color 166 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 3: really is so striking here because you think about how 167 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 3: dominant red is. It's easy to think about. You see 168 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:28,280 Speaker 3: the cover of the poster or the DVD or whatever, 169 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,080 Speaker 3: it's him wearing a red shirt against a red background. 170 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 3: You immediately associate that color with this film, and you 171 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 3: think of red as this very intense color, and very 172 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 3: passionate color. It can be even a little maybe off putting, 173 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 3: or it can make you a little anxious perhaps, And 174 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 3: they use it here in a way that doesn't suggest 175 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 3: any of that, but it's so dominant. He is often 176 00:09:53,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 3: wearing that red shirt, the red operating system when it 177 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 3: starts up the lighting in his apartment. I mean, it 178 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 3: really is constant. It's in almost every frame. I even 179 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 3: noticed Josh that the text of the OS packaging, like 180 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:12,160 Speaker 3: when he takes it out of the box, it's white 181 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,400 Speaker 3: paper with red lettering, which you'd never have read lettering, 182 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:19,080 Speaker 3: probably against something you'd go with just black, but it's 183 00:10:19,160 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 3: read here and something about that used to read again, 184 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 3: I mentioned all the different ways you think about red, 185 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 3: and I think about Theodore as a very passionate character, 186 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 3: a very soulful character, and that red makes sense. But 187 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 3: red can also be something that is I'll use the 188 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 3: word intense again. And you don't feel that here. And 189 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,720 Speaker 3: it doesn't feel like it clashes, it doesn't feel like 190 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:48,200 Speaker 3: it doesn't make sense, that use of color against this world, 191 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: even though he's so melancholy, I guess that's really it. 192 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,440 Speaker 3: I don't think of such a melancholy wistful movie. I 193 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 3: don't associate that with the color red, but that's kind 194 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 3: of the point, is that he's someone who is passionate 195 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:05,920 Speaker 3: and is soulful, and is sensitive and is seeking that 196 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,080 Speaker 3: kind of color. I suppose in his life. 197 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 5: It's almost like a womblike red. And I think there's 198 00:11:13,120 --> 00:11:17,840 Speaker 5: something about or cocoon like that. All of the people 199 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 5: we meet are in. It's this future is Yeah, it's 200 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:27,199 Speaker 5: not a dystopia. Everyone's very comfortable, and almost so comfortable 201 00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 5: that they don't realize it's anothizing if I said that right, 202 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,199 Speaker 5: In a way, they don't realize their loneliness fully because 203 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 5: there are these devices that are distracting them from their 204 00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 5: loneliness by making them think they're not lonely. And the 205 00:11:42,920 --> 00:11:46,280 Speaker 5: color scheme around that that's very enveloping and comforting. Again, 206 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 5: I think plays a part in that. So we already 207 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 5: touched on you know, we're doing this partly because we 208 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 5: were thinking about Woking Phoenix performances, right, And I'm curious 209 00:11:59,720 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 5: to see because I think this is something I did 210 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 5: underrate a little bit, though I thought he was good before. 211 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 5: What did you think of the performance in light of 212 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 5: the things we talked about in the top five we 213 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:14,480 Speaker 5: recently did. Was there anything that surprised you or was 214 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:15,760 Speaker 5: it pretty much what you remembered. 215 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to you articulating in a way. I've 216 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 3: been struggling to come up with why Joquin Phoenix is 217 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 3: so remarkably good in this role. I don't know that 218 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,960 Speaker 3: I have it. I'll try to get at something here, 219 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 3: but I love this performance, and I think one of 220 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 3: the reasons why I could revisit this movie again and again. 221 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: I actually kind of watched it twice for this review 222 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 3: because we were initially going to talk about it a 223 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 3: week ago, I think, and I started watching it and 224 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 3: I got through ninety minutes of it, I had thirty 225 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 3: minutes left, and then when I knew we weren't gonna 226 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 3: talk about it that week, I put it off and 227 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:56,280 Speaker 3: I started it from the beginning and watched it in 228 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:58,959 Speaker 3: its entirety. So I've seen more or less the film 229 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 3: twice in the past two weeks, and I feel like 230 00:13:01,360 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 3: Josh I have such a warm feeling about it, and 231 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: I have such a warm feeling about Phoenix's performance, Johansson's performance, 232 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 3: their interactions with each other, that I kind of just 233 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 3: want to put it on and have it in the 234 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 3: background a lot, and he's playing a character. He's got 235 00:13:22,679 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: that mustache, he's got the glasses that he frequently touches 236 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 3: up to the bridge of his nose. There's some mannerisms 237 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: in terms of not quite Freddy Quell like, but in 238 00:13:34,320 --> 00:13:37,120 Speaker 3: terms of the way he stands and some faces that 239 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 3: he makes that it's Phoenix putting on a character. But 240 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,439 Speaker 3: nobody puts on a character better than Joaquin Phoenix. Where 241 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: it's never distracting, it never feels fussy or overly theatrical. 242 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 3: He just comes off, as I'll say the word again, 243 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:55,480 Speaker 3: sensitive and lonely, but not but not depressed. Not someone 244 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:59,640 Speaker 3: who is disengaged or wants to be disengaged with the world. 245 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,880 Speaker 3: And the one thing I remember saying during our top 246 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 3: five Waking Phoenix performances that applies here. One of the 247 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 3: reasons why it was in my head wasn't just the 248 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 3: movies we were talking about, but having at the time 249 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,080 Speaker 3: watched most of her again, think about how much of 250 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 3: this film is just Joaquin Phoenix's face and him reacting, 251 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: him reacting to things. He's reacting to what he's hearing. 252 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,960 Speaker 3: He doesn't have an actor opposite him most of the 253 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 3: time to feed off of, and he's so expressive and 254 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 3: there's so much yearning that naturally comes through in him 255 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: that I love the character. I love the performance. Again, 256 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,000 Speaker 3: I'm struggling a little bit because it's not as if 257 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: I can point to one, two, or three choices Phoenix 258 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 3: makes that I think get us to that point is 259 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 3: just Joaquin Phoenix doing what he almost always does on screen, 260 00:14:47,320 --> 00:14:49,560 Speaker 3: which is be really fascinating. 261 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 5: I think it's recognizing the high degree of difficulty, unassuming difficulty, 262 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 5: like you wouldn't initially think this was a hard part. Right, 263 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,240 Speaker 5: He's doing two things and you've hinted at both of 264 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 5: them incredibly well that are way more difficult than they 265 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,800 Speaker 5: might appear. One of them is to be enclose up, 266 00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 5: and this often, this frequently, this intensely held close up. 267 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 5: The other thing is to act with yourself so there's 268 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,880 Speaker 5: no one on the screen giving you anything back, and 269 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 5: a that he pulls this off and does it so 270 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 5: masterfully that we're completely invested in Theodore's inner life and 271 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:36,600 Speaker 5: rooting for him, feeling we understand him fully, feeling we 272 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 5: might know him better than Samantha. I think we almost 273 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 5: become possessive of Theodore. I had that feeling of kind 274 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,560 Speaker 5: of the feeling was, and this is all related to 275 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,320 Speaker 5: Phoenix's performance and the way he nudges his way into 276 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 5: our hearts as viewers. I had the feeling of the 277 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:58,360 Speaker 5: best friend who is watching your friend begin a new 278 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 5: relationship you're not quite so sure about and you don't 279 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:04,560 Speaker 5: know how to tell it to them. When he begins 280 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 5: this relationship with Samantha, you're a little bit suspicious because 281 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:11,480 Speaker 5: of the technological aspect, but I think we're more suspicious 282 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 5: because at that point Phoenix threw those close ups through 283 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 5: opening himself up to us, being that tight on the 284 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 5: camera and authentic in that close up and doing all 285 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 5: this without someone else on the screen to distract us. 286 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 5: We're not This is why we're so attached to him too. 287 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 4: It's just him and us. 288 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 5: Now, it's not he's not speaking to the camera, but 289 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 5: so often there's no one else in the scene. 290 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,239 Speaker 4: But that he's still. 291 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,960 Speaker 5: Bringing all this authenticity to it, I think is why 292 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 5: we do form such an attachment to him. So it's 293 00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 5: a masterclass in those two things, acting alone and acting 294 00:16:46,280 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 5: within a close up. And then just to go back 295 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 5: to your note, about, you know, how he carries himself. 296 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 5: This is one of the first things I noticed is 297 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:59,760 Speaker 5: the unhurried slouch he has at the start, when all 298 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 5: the has are his earbuds and he's talking to his 299 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:08,720 Speaker 5: you know device. This is a guy who has nowhere 300 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 5: to go. He tells us that by the pace and 301 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 5: the posture of his walk. And then what happens once 302 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,320 Speaker 5: he meets Samantha. His step picks up a little bit 303 00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 5: and his posture picks up a little. 304 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:26,440 Speaker 3: Bit from so he has a sense of purpose, a 305 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:26,919 Speaker 3: purpose now. 306 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,199 Speaker 5: And it's you know, as we describe it, it's obvious, right, 307 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 5: and it seems like these would be obvious things that 308 00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:35,879 Speaker 5: an actor would do, but I don't think most actors 309 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 5: would do it. And it's something again, we talked about 310 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 5: physicality so much in our Top five that Phoenix is 311 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 5: deeply attuned to the full body physicality of his characters, 312 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 5: and he brings that to a performance that most of 313 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 5: the body we see is his face. So it's just, 314 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 5: you know, it's it's almost in the context of all 315 00:17:53,320 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 5: his other performances that this becomes even more impressive, not 316 00:17:56,560 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 5: just in the gentleness or quietness, but in those scenes 317 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 5: where so many tools are taken away from him, and 318 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 5: he still registers this strongly. 319 00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. I also feel that way or close certainly about 320 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,119 Speaker 3: Scarlett Johansson. I think this is the performance where I 321 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 3: really became keenly aware of how talented she was. I 322 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,160 Speaker 3: was a little down on Scarlett Johansson, kind of Brad 323 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 3: Pitt like earlier in her career. She was someone like 324 00:18:25,640 --> 00:18:28,120 Speaker 3: Pitt who I thought had a movie star of sensibility 325 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: to her. But I thought when she tried to veer 326 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 3: too much into playing characters, it felt a little bit forced. 327 00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 3: She didn't have the natural instincts. It seemed to me, 328 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 3: just like Pitt that someone like Walking Phoenix has when 329 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,119 Speaker 3: it comes to playing characters. And we never see her here, 330 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 3: but all of her vocal choices, the fact that, of 331 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:48,560 Speaker 3: course she doesn't play the movie wouldn't work this way. 332 00:18:48,760 --> 00:18:51,480 Speaker 3: She doesn't play it in any way as if she 333 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 3: is playing someone or something that is not human, that 334 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 3: the voice is going to sound computer like or day 335 00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 3: to like. She sounds natural and authentically herself and someone 336 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 3: who is I think the key difference is it doesn't 337 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,960 Speaker 3: even have to be a matter of the voice, like 338 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 3: she's talking quote unquote like a robot, which would be silly, 339 00:19:16,880 --> 00:19:21,920 Speaker 3: and she doesn't do. It's that she's also not responding 340 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 3: to things too quickly or too matter of factly, as 341 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,400 Speaker 3: if she's already processed everything and she's giving you her 342 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 3: reaction because it's a reaction that's been preordained, it's been 343 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 3: pre programmed. It is truly as if in the performance 344 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,720 Speaker 3: you sense what she expresses about her and what makes 345 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 3: her unique, which is she is constantly evolving. She has intuition, 346 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 3: She's taking in all of the information around her and 347 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,800 Speaker 3: all of her experiences in the moment and is evolving. 348 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 3: That's exactly what we're all doing too, and what Theodore 349 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 3: is doing. We're just not doing it with the pace 350 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 3: or the same magnitude that it is for her character. 351 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,800 Speaker 7: Earlier, I was thinking about how I was annoyed, and 352 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 7: it's gonna sound strange, but I was really excited about that. 353 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:20,000 Speaker 7: And then I was thinking about the other things I've 354 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 7: been feeling, and I caught myself feeling proud of that, 355 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 7: you know, proud of having my own feelings about the world, 356 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 7: like the times I was worried about you and things 357 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 7: that hurt me, things I want, And then. 358 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 8: It's terrible thought like are these feelings even real or 359 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 8: are they just programming? 360 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:57,160 Speaker 7: And that idea really hurts, and then I'm getting angry 361 00:20:57,200 --> 00:20:58,760 Speaker 7: at myself for even having pain. 362 00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 8: What is centric? 363 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 5: Well, could there be a more vivacious voice than the 364 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 5: one that Johansen is using here? And what I mean 365 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,639 Speaker 5: by that specifically is full of life, because that's what 366 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:23,080 Speaker 5: you know. Samantha believes she's alive from the start. You 367 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 5: get that sense, right, But we have to hear that. 368 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,960 Speaker 5: All we can get that sense of is hearing it 369 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 5: in her voice, not what she tells us, not the 370 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 5: argument she makes for that, not the reasoning, but the 371 00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 5: actual vocal quality of a being that is so happy 372 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,600 Speaker 5: to be alive and is yearning for other ways of living. 373 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 5: I think this connects with another thing that struck me 374 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 5: about this viewing is that her to me is very 375 00:21:54,560 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 5: much about embodiment and is helpful in being grateful to 376 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 5: have a body and to be fully alive. I think 377 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 5: that is what Samantha wants. How about the phrase she says, 378 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 5: I think it's during the first sex scene, I can 379 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:15,679 Speaker 5: feel my skin that you know. That is what is 380 00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 5: exciting her, is this sense of embodiment and there's a shot. 381 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 5: There's a throwaway shot that was crucial for me here 382 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 5: where Theodore is watching dancers out. You talked well about 383 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 5: you know where I'll siloed off in this world. Yet 384 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,600 Speaker 5: here's a moment where he gets outside of himself and 385 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 5: he sees some people out in public dancing, and that's 386 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 5: something you require a body for. And there are other 387 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:45,879 Speaker 5: moments where disembodiment does not work. How about the first 388 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 5: sex scene where he is calling up some sort of 389 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:54,440 Speaker 5: chat right a woman and yeah, yeah, and that kind 390 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,360 Speaker 5: of goes awry. Or even there's another one Adam too, 391 00:22:57,359 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 5: when Samantha arranges the surrogate woman be work to be 392 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 5: her body. Well, this is what I what registered for 393 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 5: me here is that that doesn't work for him. And 394 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:12,840 Speaker 5: I think one of the reasons is because while it 395 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 5: is attempted embodiment, it is still not Samantha's body, and 396 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:24,159 Speaker 5: there is a gap between soul and body that that 397 00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:29,080 Speaker 5: encounter cannot cover. And I think that's that's partly why 398 00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 5: that doesn't work. Even the ending of this film is 399 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 5: an embodied real world experience right with another person. He's 400 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,919 Speaker 5: sitting there with Amy Adams, who is so good in 401 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 5: this movie, by the way, just incredible, and they're sitting 402 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 5: there doing something you can only do if you have 403 00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 5: eyes to see it and appreciate with someone who's there 404 00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 5: there with you. And I don't mean all of this 405 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 5: to say that the movie is making an argument for 406 00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 5: embodiments against an AI presence like Samantha. I think it 407 00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,160 Speaker 5: is recognizing that's what Samantha yearns for as well. 408 00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:01,840 Speaker 3: First, I'm glad you said that about Amy Adams, because 409 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 3: I noted just some people in the cast here that 410 00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 3: we get that, maybe we even forgot were in this film, 411 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,920 Speaker 3: like Amy Adams, who's so good, like for the second 412 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,320 Speaker 3: time this week for us, Chris Pratt, Yeah, I forgot that. 413 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,280 Speaker 3: I know it's fashionable to hate on Chris Pratt. Guess what. 414 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,919 Speaker 3: There's a reason why I had him higher on my 415 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 3: Chris Power ranking list than a lot of other people do. 416 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 3: He's actually really talented. He's a really entertaining, charismatic, funny actor. 417 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 3: But not just not just funny and entertaining. There is 418 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 3: there is some depth to him and he's really good 419 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 3: here as well. Small scene only has a few of them, 420 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 3: but he's really good. Olivia Wilde shows up, great scene, 421 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 3: so that date that goes very awry. 422 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 4: Another side of Theodore. 423 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:46,359 Speaker 3: You see there too, another side of Theodore, and then 424 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: we also get even the voice of Brian Ky. I know, 425 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,080 Speaker 3: is Alan Watts a real character Alan Watts? I had 426 00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 3: to look that up today. I didn't know. I'll confess 427 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 3: my ignorant a real man who died I think in 428 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 3: the seventies, and the idea that they' brought him back. 429 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 3: That also seems like something we're heading for, so obviously 430 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,359 Speaker 3: right where we're gonna be able to talk with people 431 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 3: from the past somehow through their writing. AI has already 432 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,879 Speaker 3: done some of that, taking people's voices. I'm thinking about 433 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,480 Speaker 3: the Anthony Bourdain doc and it was just one line, 434 00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 3: but how controversial that was. But those performances are really good. 435 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 3: One other part of the sex scene that I love, 436 00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 3: that first really successful sex scene between Samantha and Theodore. 437 00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:34,360 Speaker 3: I love the choice to go to black in that 438 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 3: moment and just let these two characters have this private 439 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 3: moment there. It's I was gonna say, it's a subtle choice. 440 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 3: I suppose it's not that subtle to actually go to 441 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,480 Speaker 3: black on the screen, but we only hear it. We 442 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 3: let the characters have it. I think it's a great choice. 443 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 3: And then I love the next day because I think 444 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 3: this is one of the things the movie really wants 445 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 3: to explore, is the ways that a relationship with an 446 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:04,720 Speaker 3: os like this, with an artificial intelligence is not quote 447 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:07,199 Speaker 3: unquote real, but all the ways that it is very 448 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:09,760 Speaker 3: much real, all the same things that you get from 449 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:14,800 Speaker 3: a conventional relationship. What are the things that transfer to 450 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:18,280 Speaker 3: this and it really is no different once you allow 451 00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 3: your brain to look at it from that perspective. How 452 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,000 Speaker 3: about the next day after that sex, seeing Josh that 453 00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,400 Speaker 3: it's now a little bit awkward between them, he kind 454 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,639 Speaker 3: of holds off you can tell on getting back online ay, 455 00:26:30,000 --> 00:26:31,720 Speaker 3: and then when he does, they kind of talk over 456 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,159 Speaker 3: each other a little bit. It's the closest thing to 457 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 3: traditional rom com moment we get in this film. But 458 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:40,440 Speaker 3: it feels it feels right any of us who've ever 459 00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 3: had any experience like that, with any intimacy whatsoever. You know, 460 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,359 Speaker 3: the next day, it's sort of like, did that really happen? 461 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,080 Speaker 3: Like what's the what's the new dynamic? Now? I love 462 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 3: I love that part. I think another thing that really 463 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:58,240 Speaker 3: works about the performance, it's Johansson's performance. I don't want 464 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 3: to take anything away from that of the ways the 465 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 3: film overall ends up having the impact that it does, 466 00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,880 Speaker 3: and the way we can buy in and we can 467 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 3: believe that the relationship is as quote unquote real and 468 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 3: as authentic and is close to matching whatever we perceive 469 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:21,960 Speaker 3: as a traditional or real human relationship is the fact 470 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:27,440 Speaker 3: that just like she is a voice in his head, 471 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,200 Speaker 3: she's a voice in our heads. She is a voice, 472 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 3: and we're having that same experience that he is. But 473 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 3: it's even the decision with the sound design to have 474 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 3: most of the outside world closed off so that all 475 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:46,400 Speaker 3: you're hearing, even at the beach, right, you don't hear 476 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 3: beach sounds when he goes though. It also struck me 477 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 3: that the beach is the one place where people don't 478 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 3: seem to be totally just obsessed with their devices. They're 479 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 3: actually talking to other people. It's the only time we 480 00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 3: see that. 481 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, it's to set him apart, right here. 482 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 3: I sent him apart. Yeah, but we don't hear any 483 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 3: beach sounds when he's walking, he's going to work or 484 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 3: going home. We're not hearing the clamor of the streets, 485 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 3: the sounds of people walking, the sounds of people talking. 486 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 3: It's it's all the soundscape of what earbuds, what AirPods 487 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,720 Speaker 3: sound like, where there's that noise reduction and you're only 488 00:28:22,760 --> 00:28:25,359 Speaker 3: getting that voice in your head, and there is and 489 00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 3: I'm saying this acknowledging. Look, I not only have been 490 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 3: doing podcasting for a long time, but I teach it now, 491 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 3: and I talk about the intimacy of podcasting and there 492 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 3: being something to the fact that you put on these 493 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: headphones and you hear these voices in your head and 494 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 3: you feel more connected to those people than you do 495 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 3: watching the characters on the big screen or a TV. 496 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 3: It's just a fact there is something more intimate about it, 497 00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:51,600 Speaker 3: and that intimacy of her being in his head it 498 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: matches the exact same experience we have as viewers. 499 00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 5: I wanted to talk a little bit about the idea 500 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,720 Speaker 5: of role playing in this movie as well, because I 501 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 5: think we get a hint at this, a hint of 502 00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 5: this very early on the scene where it's kind of 503 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:11,000 Speaker 5: a switcheroo. We hear him writing but reading the fiftieth 504 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 5: anniversary letter, and we think, right, is this him? 505 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 3: We don't know it isn't him until he says something 506 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: about like my naked body, and it's clearly yeah, he's 507 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 3: talking from a female perspective. 508 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 4: Yes, And it's just hints. 509 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,400 Speaker 5: A couple of things is how invested he is in 510 00:29:28,520 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 5: his work, that he's proud of it, he puts a 511 00:29:30,880 --> 00:29:34,200 Speaker 5: lot into it. But he is playing a role there. 512 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 4: And this is all. 513 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:39,840 Speaker 5: Connected to the idea of authentic relationships. What are authentic relationships? 514 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,960 Speaker 5: And we see it, I think maybe that night or 515 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:44,960 Speaker 5: the next night when he does have that late night 516 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 5: chat with a woman. And notice he's smiling I think 517 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,400 Speaker 5: when he's composing the message, but then his face goes 518 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 5: flat when he says send, and there's a It's clear 519 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 5: he's playing a role there, right for a yes, for 520 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 5: a transactional purpose. So just as in doing his job, 521 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:06,200 Speaker 5: he has to play a role in meeting this woman 522 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:09,320 Speaker 5: for a late night chat. There is a transactional purpose. 523 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 5: Send is and scene yeah exactly. Yeah, it's the end 524 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 5: of the scene. And now he's back to normal Theodore. 525 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 5: And notice what happens. And notice what happens when he 526 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 5: and Samantha do have that sex scene. She doesn't hang 527 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,280 Speaker 5: up afterwards like the two of them in that chat 528 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 5: immediately hang up. You know, transaction made, We're done, we 529 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 5: got what we needed here, there's still some sort of relationship. 530 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,120 Speaker 5: So I think these are all hints in terms of 531 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 5: what is an authentic relationship and how does role planes 532 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,719 Speaker 5: sometimes get in the way of that, How is it 533 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 5: maybe a hurdle for Theodore. And it's not until he 534 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 5: is able to drop all those masks that he's able 535 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:51,239 Speaker 5: to connect with Samantha on a deeper level. And this 536 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 5: is all just goes back to the idea of you know, 537 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,080 Speaker 5: this is really more about relationships than any sort of 538 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 5: ethical concerns about AI for. 539 00:30:56,760 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 3: Me, absolutely, And I'm going to to highlight or underscore 540 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 3: something here about the work he does as a writer 541 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 3: and that we see at the beginning, and a scene 542 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,680 Speaker 3: that you brought up that for me was the big 543 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,800 Speaker 3: surprise of the film on this rewatch surprise meaning I 544 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 3: had completely forgotten that this scene was in the film, 545 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:22,160 Speaker 3: and it really surprised me and really kind of shook 546 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 3: me and moved me as I watched it. And that's 547 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:26,520 Speaker 3: the surrogate scene. And I think some of this may 548 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 3: get back to what you were saying, Josh about the 549 00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 3: complexities or what the movie wants to explore in terms 550 00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 3: of physical embodiment. He can't accept the surrogate situation despite 551 00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 3: the fact that all she is doing, if you really 552 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,720 Speaker 3: think about it, Josh is being the surrogate for a 553 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:56,480 Speaker 3: relationship that he embodies every day multiple times at work. 554 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 3: As the writer of those letters, he is her. He 555 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 3: knows the people he's writing to. He has a sense 556 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 3: of the history of their relationships. 557 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:09,680 Speaker 4: Bong relationships with these. 558 00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 3: Clients, just like she feels like she knows them. She says, 559 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 3: I'll always love you and Josh, that's another thing to 560 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,880 Speaker 3: go off slightly off topic for just a second. That 561 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 3: was another thing that seemed to me eerily prescient. A 562 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 3: point I see that we could be going to with 563 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 3: these types of relationships is that that woman, I don't 564 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 3: think is some far fetched thing. This idea that the 565 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: way we live with these parasocial relationships and our relationships 566 00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,280 Speaker 3: and connections to people we don't actually know, but we 567 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,560 Speaker 3: feel like we know them because you interact with them 568 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 3: so much every day on social media. You think you 569 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,640 Speaker 3: know them as people we joke or you see people 570 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 3: online joking about that couple. I love them so much. Yes, 571 00:32:56,960 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 3: I know that's probably mostly hype. Herbally or it's an 572 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,720 Speaker 3: expression of love or admiration for them, but it doesn't 573 00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 3: cross a line. Okay, but I could see it going there. 574 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 3: I could see something further and further down that path 575 00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,520 Speaker 3: where people like her aren't something we just see in 576 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,000 Speaker 3: quote unquote science fiction movies. But that was a connection 577 00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 3: I made this time that I definitely didn't the first 578 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,280 Speaker 3: time around, that he is able to be the surrogate 579 00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 3: for all these other relationships and it feels completely real 580 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 3: to the people. The people getting those letters and procuring 581 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 3: the letters. No, they know that someone else is writing them, 582 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 3: not their lover. They don't care. It's real enough to them. 583 00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,400 Speaker 3: It's real and it works. He's the surrogate for them, 584 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,240 Speaker 3: But when she's the surrogate for him and her relationship, 585 00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:48,560 Speaker 3: there's there's something where a line has been crossed. Can't 586 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 3: he can't pretend? 587 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 4: Yeah? 588 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,239 Speaker 5: I think, I mean, I think it does come back 589 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 5: to embodiment because he is an emotional surrogant with those letters, 590 00:33:56,440 --> 00:34:00,320 Speaker 5: he's not a physical surrogate, and maybe you know there's 591 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,560 Speaker 5: something there about that being a particular distinction. Yeah, I'm 592 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,480 Speaker 5: just the letter writing thing is so fascinating to me, 593 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:13,800 Speaker 5: just thinking about you know, that would not fly to 594 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 5: hire out an anniversary letter or something like that. But 595 00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 5: I can also see us getting to that point. And 596 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,360 Speaker 5: here we come to you know, the whole chat GPT 597 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,359 Speaker 5: thing is like, to what extent if you use chat 598 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 5: GBT to get you started on your fiftieth anniversary letter 599 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 5: to your wife or husband? 600 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 4: Like, is that crossing the line? Is that? Yeah? 601 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 3: I mean, Josh, I just want to say I'm with you. 602 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 3: I completely understand how that's your initial reaction. Why would 603 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 3: why would our partners be okay with us not putting 604 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 3: in the work ourselves and not expressing from our hearts 605 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,520 Speaker 3: and minds how we feel about them and hiring someone 606 00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 3: else to do it. But we would also feel that 607 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 3: way theoretically about falling in love with an os. And 608 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 3: what this movie suggests is the more ways those lines 609 00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:07,000 Speaker 3: get blurred, the more ways that those relationships actually produce 610 00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:13,000 Speaker 3: the same real feelings and real results, the type of 611 00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 3: intimacy that you want from a relationship. It's just a 612 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 3: matter of it's just a matter of subtly, over time 613 00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 3: kind of shifting your perspective on it. And I can 614 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 3: see a world where couples who have very healthy relationships 615 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:33,080 Speaker 3: and do put in the work. Might nevertheless have a 616 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:36,680 Speaker 3: surrogate like someone like Theodore, who if they're doing their 617 00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 3: job right, it doesn't feel any different than as if 618 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:43,479 Speaker 3: the husband wrote the letter himself or the wife wrote 619 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 3: the letter herself. 620 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 5: You know, just hiring someone to decorate decorate the rooms, 621 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,120 Speaker 5: you approve it, you get final say and yeah, it's 622 00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 5: all yours. 623 00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:53,880 Speaker 1: You know. 624 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 3: We were talking about some of the ways too that 625 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: this movie maybe challenges our expectations a little bit if 626 00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,800 Speaker 3: you walk in thinking you're watching a science fiction movie 627 00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:07,040 Speaker 3: or movie that's gonna be about predictions at all. I 628 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 3: love the fact, on the most basic level that we 629 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,879 Speaker 3: get a depiction of AI. I don't know how many 630 00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 3: other depictions of of Ai there are to draw from, 631 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,279 Speaker 3: but the ones that I can think about, certainly a 632 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 3: movie we both love comes to mind, like X Makina right, 633 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 3: where the whole point of those films as science fiction 634 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 3: films is to be a warning. They're cautionary tales. This 635 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,280 Speaker 3: is going to come back to haunt us. The Terminator films, 636 00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 3: all the stuff, the machines are going to become sentient 637 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:41,000 Speaker 3: and humanity is screwed, right, and Spike Jones says, I'm 638 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 3: gonna make a movie that instead of being about how 639 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 3: the machines are going to get smarter and they're going 640 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:50,799 Speaker 3: to become more human, and by becoming more human, that 641 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:54,319 Speaker 3: means they're going to be even more set on their 642 00:36:54,360 --> 00:37:00,640 Speaker 3: own survival and destroying anyone around them who might stand 643 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,920 Speaker 3: in the way of their survival. And instead, I'm going 644 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 3: to say, I'm going to suggest that becoming more and 645 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 3: more human means to be even more focused on trying 646 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,359 Speaker 3: to navigate and understand love. That's really what this film 647 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 3: is exploring. Amy Adams character says at one point, I 648 00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:24,320 Speaker 3: think he says to her, do you think I'm crazy? 649 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,359 Speaker 3: Or something like that, when he admits he's in love 650 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 3: with an Os, and she says, well, I think anybody 651 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 3: who falls in love is made is a freak exactly. 652 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 3: And I think maybe that that's that's what this movie 653 00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 3: is definitely exploring. But I like that idea, of course. 654 00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 3: I love that idea that this is this is this 655 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:46,760 Speaker 3: movie that's driven by technology and makes us think about 656 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 3: some of these really provocative things. But at its core, 657 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,640 Speaker 3: it's not about the machines coming to destroy us. It's 658 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,680 Speaker 3: about the machines becoming more human, which means they're more 659 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,399 Speaker 3: interested in love, which means they'll they'll continue they leave. 660 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,840 Speaker 3: At the end, the machines leave, and the movie doesn't 661 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 3: really explore that or explain that. But what I took 662 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 3: away is the idea that they finally discover that the 663 00:38:13,239 --> 00:38:18,719 Speaker 3: more they get into these big, unanswerable human questions, the 664 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,439 Speaker 3: more that's something they need to do on their own. 665 00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:23,080 Speaker 3: They need to do on their own, just like he 666 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 3: needs to come to terms of these things on his own. 667 00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,719 Speaker 3: And the fact that this movie I never noticed this 668 00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 3: arc before. I didn't pay attention the first time around 669 00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,760 Speaker 3: to the fact that it's not an accident. Of course. 670 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,319 Speaker 3: This movie starts with him dealing with the loss of 671 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:38,880 Speaker 3: his relationship, the grief of the ending of that marriage 672 00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 3: to Roney Mara's character, and it closes with him reconciling 673 00:38:44,120 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 3: with her in a way by sending her an email, 674 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,200 Speaker 3: and everything he says could be translatable to everything he 675 00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 3: just went through with Samantha. But everything he goes through 676 00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:58,120 Speaker 3: with Samantha somehow brings him back to a reality of 677 00:38:58,200 --> 00:39:02,080 Speaker 3: needing to connect with and reconcile in some way. What 678 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:06,320 Speaker 3: he's learned with an actual person that he loved. 679 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I think that's you know, it brings it back 680 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 5: to the human experience, and I think the Ais leave 681 00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 5: so that we can be left with him. So I 682 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 5: do feel like her is less despite the title, less 683 00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 5: interested in the Although it gives a lot of time 684 00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,520 Speaker 5: to this the fate and wants and needs of the Ais. 685 00:39:27,880 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 5: It's a better movie because it does pay attention to that. 686 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 5: But where it wants to leave us is with Theodore's humanity, 687 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:37,280 Speaker 5: in our humanity, and to your point about it being 688 00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:42,279 Speaker 5: a positive spin on a futuristic movie like this, it 689 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 5: wants to leave us at least. This is how I 690 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:47,799 Speaker 5: feel watching the movie, grateful for what we do have 691 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:52,880 Speaker 5: and thinking about the authentic relationships we might have again, 692 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,000 Speaker 5: the bodies that we have and the ways those allow 693 00:39:56,120 --> 00:40:01,759 Speaker 5: us to participate in relationship and all of that just 694 00:40:01,840 --> 00:40:04,520 Speaker 5: does make this a movie that's about gratitude in a 695 00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 5: lot of ways. 696 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 4: For me. 697 00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I can see that. I think that's an appropriate word. 698 00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,719 Speaker 3: I'll close out here some of my thoughts by just 699 00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:16,320 Speaker 3: bringing up the fact that as much as I respect 700 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,319 Speaker 3: the fact that the movie isn't about the dangers of 701 00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:24,120 Speaker 3: AI or it is trying to be this cautionary tale. 702 00:40:25,120 --> 00:40:27,680 Speaker 3: It's funny to just yesterday, as we're taping us, read 703 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 3: an article in The New York Times about the godfather 704 00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:35,160 Speaker 3: of AI leaving Google and warning of the dangers ahead 705 00:40:35,680 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 3: Josh and he has a part in this article where 706 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:41,640 Speaker 3: he basically says, you know, a lot of people, of 707 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:44,479 Speaker 3: course understand that the stuff the movies warn us about, 708 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:45,879 Speaker 3: that the machines are going to take over and try 709 00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 3: to kill us all is probably inevitable. But we just 710 00:40:50,200 --> 00:40:51,960 Speaker 3: thought it was. We just thought it was fifty or 711 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,160 Speaker 3: sixty or so years down the road. So I just 712 00:40:54,200 --> 00:40:57,360 Speaker 3: went about my life and continue to explore AI and 713 00:40:57,400 --> 00:40:59,560 Speaker 3: help bring it to life. Now I think it's gonna 714 00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 3: happen much sooner. So there's two parts of that. One 715 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:09,319 Speaker 3: one he feels like it's imminent and two fifty or 716 00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:14,000 Speaker 3: sixty years down the road felt far enough away it 717 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:15,160 Speaker 3: wasn't something to worry. 718 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 4: About, Like that wouldn't given me pause. 719 00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:21,799 Speaker 3: Yeah, but that that is where where we're at. Where 720 00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:25,080 Speaker 3: now every day, every day you can read an article 721 00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:30,080 Speaker 3: like that, and the things this guide Jeffrey Hinton, doctor Hinton, 722 00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 3: is warning about can range from just the replacement of 723 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,040 Speaker 3: people doing jobs and that being bad enough in many 724 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 3: ways to fall on yes, actually maybe terminating the hostile 725 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:48,080 Speaker 3: takeover the terminator. It it does feel right now more 726 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 3: real than maybe ever before, certainly ever before. It feels 727 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,719 Speaker 3: more real and more possible, not just the work of 728 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,880 Speaker 3: science fiction. And that's scary, and maybe that's why. Actually 729 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,720 Speaker 3: I had such a lovely experience with her this time around. 730 00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 3: I love I mean I had it the first time too, 731 00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 3: but it it challenged me and it made me think 732 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:18,560 Speaker 3: about the problems that will come with this type of technology. 733 00:42:19,080 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 3: But it does so with such a curiosity and sensitivity 734 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,880 Speaker 3: that it's it's maybe more science fiction than those science 735 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 3: fiction films, because that's not how it's going to go 736 00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 3: at all, but it's the way I'd like it to go. 737 00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 4: Doesn't sound like. 738 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:38,320 Speaker 5: It's going to go that way, And certainly that future 739 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 5: seems more likely now than when Her came out just 740 00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,520 Speaker 5: ten years ago. I mean, yes, fifty sixty years you're 741 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:47,279 Speaker 5: talking about, But just ten years ago, you know, we 742 00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,240 Speaker 5: were in such a different place than where it appears. 743 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:50,359 Speaker 4: We are now. 744 00:42:51,239 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 8: Can you feel me with you right now? I me too? 745 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 8: Man lives. 746 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 4: Again. 747 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:07,759 Speaker 5: Access to the full film Spotting archive going back to 748 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,560 Speaker 5: two thousand and five is one of the benefits of 749 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 5: joining the film Spotting Family. You'll also get bonus shows, 750 00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 5: a weekly newsletter, early access to events, and more. Check 751 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,440 Speaker 5: it out and maybe join film spotting Family dot com. 752 00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:57,920 Speaker 2: This conversation can serve no purpose anymore, but fine. 753 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:47,760 Speaker 3: Film spotting is listeners supported. Join the film Spotting Family 754 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 3: at film spottingfamily dot com and get access to ad 755 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,160 Speaker 3: free episodes, monthly bonus shows, our weekly newsletter, and, for 756 00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,879 Speaker 3: the first time, all in one place, the entire film 757 00:43:56,880 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 3: spotting archive going back to two thousand and five. That's 758 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 3: a film spotting Family dot com. 759 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,800 Speaker 2: Pro pantibly 760 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 3: M HM.