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Speaker 1: Heolks, it's July twenty second, twenty twenty five. Brianna Taylor

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Speaker 1: was killed March thirteenth of twenty twenty and today, five

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Speaker 1: years later, one of the three officers who shot at

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Speaker 1: her that night was sentenced to jail time. He is

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Speaker 1: the only officer charged in her shooting death, and he's

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Speaker 1: the only one of the three officers whose bullets did

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Speaker 1: not hit Brianna Taylor.

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Speaker 2: Welcome everybody to Amy and TJ. Robes.

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Speaker 1: We are doing this episode, yes, because this is timely,

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Speaker 1: but also in part because of a conversation that was

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Speaker 1: not naturally sparked between the two of us, and it's

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Speaker 1: kind of you kind of had a wait, what the

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Speaker 1: hell moment.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, look, we cover and we've covered crime

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Speaker 3: stories for decades now, and this one is a head

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Speaker 3: scratch and you really do kind of have to read

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Speaker 3: between the lines and do a little research to figure

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Speaker 3: out what the hell is going on. So the man

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Speaker 3: and Brett Haykinson was charged, the former police officer in

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Speaker 3: the shooting death of Breonna Taylor, and he was sentenced

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Speaker 3: to thirty three months in prison correct so just shy

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Speaker 3: of three years. But he was the only one of

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Speaker 3: the three officers who fired their weapons that night, whose

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Speaker 3: bullets didn't hit Brionna Taylor, the two men whose bullets

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Speaker 3: hit Brianna Taylor, and the one man's who actually was

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Speaker 3: the fatal shot. Neither one of them were even.

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Speaker 1: Charged the death a not guilty verdict. They did not

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Speaker 1: even matter of a mistrial, hungery not.

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Speaker 3: No charges, no charges, And so you have to think why,

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Speaker 3: how is that possible? And you have to go back

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Speaker 3: to how the story started and the reason why these

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Speaker 3: other two officers weren't charged, And there was.

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Speaker 1: An uproar at the time when the charges weren't brought

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Speaker 1: against some of the other officers. But we're here now because, folks,

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Speaker 1: we sit here five years later and for the first time,

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Speaker 1: someone is being held accountable, at least with prison time,

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Speaker 1: for the death of Brianna Taylor. Now we go back

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Speaker 1: to twenty twenty. That was a different time. She actually died.

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Speaker 1: Was that two three months before? Two months before, George

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Speaker 1: George Floyd. Yes, So there were protests and there were

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Speaker 1: an uproar, and you know what you actually said this

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Speaker 1: he said.

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Speaker 2: The first thing that came to.

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Speaker 3: Mind was the hashtag say her name, Brianna Taylor. Say

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Speaker 3: her name, and there was, yes, a huge uproar. People

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Speaker 3: were upset that this twenty six year old, innocent woman

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Speaker 3: sleeping in her own bed, in her own apartment is

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Speaker 3: killed by police officers who rush into her apartment without

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Speaker 3: announcing themselves, and the two men who fired bullets into

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Speaker 3: her body and killed her were not even charged. How

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Speaker 3: do you explain this, right, they.

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Speaker 2: Explain it legally.

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Speaker 1: Brett Haggison to catch everybody up here, and you'll probably

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Speaker 1: saw the headlines today that he was sentenced to thirty

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Speaker 1: three months in jail. Former Louisville police officer now rose.

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Speaker 1: Before the headline came about him being sentenced, there was

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Speaker 1: another headline about what the government was even asking for.

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Speaker 1: So the government that prosecuted this man gave a sentencing recommendation. Now,

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Speaker 1: usually the way this goes in whatever case criminal case

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Speaker 1: you deal with, the prosecutors want as much jail time

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Speaker 1: as possible, the defense wants as little as possible. And

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Speaker 1: this was not the case.

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Speaker 3: No, and let's point this out that when the prosecution,

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Speaker 3: because this was a federal case, so we're talking about

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Speaker 3: the Department of Justice, those were the prosecutors. The Department

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Speaker 3: of Justice at one point during this case was run

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Speaker 3: by the Biden administration, but when we got to sentencing,

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Speaker 3: now the Department of Justice is run by the Trump administration,

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Speaker 3: So the Trump Department of Justice basically did an about face.

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Speaker 3: I think the judge called it a one point eighty

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Speaker 3: from what they had said under the Biden administration. But

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Speaker 3: suddenly now they're asking for one day. The maximum for

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Speaker 3: this penalty that Haginson was convicted of could be life

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Speaker 3: in prison, so there was a large range of time

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Speaker 3: that he could have spent behind bars, and the Department

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Speaker 3: of Justice, the Trump dj asked for one day.

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Speaker 1: Seemed defensive a little bit, just say no jail time,

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Speaker 1: but they were The point they were trying to make

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Speaker 1: is say, he spent a day in jail during his

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Speaker 1: when he was first arrested, when he was first booked,

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Speaker 1: he spent a day in jail, So they just evening

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Speaker 1: things out is essentially time served. He wouldn't go back

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Speaker 1: into jail for a day. But it's just the optics

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Speaker 1: of it. It felt it felt like an intentional insult.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and it almost seemed like they wanted to give

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Speaker 3: him credit, you know, they say credit for time served.

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Speaker 3: They almost kind of wanted to give him credit for

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Speaker 3: the time he served. It was a kind of a

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Speaker 3: but yes, Breonna Taylor's mom said as much. She said

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Speaker 3: it was insulting and offensive that someone finally might be

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Speaker 3: held accountable for what happened to her daughter, her very

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Speaker 3: innocent daughter. And even when he was convicted, the prosecution

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Speaker 3: is asking for one day, the defense was asking for

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Speaker 3: zero days. So they were basically on the same side.

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Speaker 3: That's what it felt like to Breonna Taylor's mother.

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Speaker 1: To the judge's credit, I don't have her name in

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Speaker 1: front of me, it's a lady. But yes, the sentencing

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Speaker 1: today and comes out that he is going to get

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Speaker 1: thirty three months, like you said, two years plus in jail.

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Speaker 1: She actually commented on the prosecution's case. She incongruous was

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Speaker 1: what is the word she used.

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Speaker 3: Yah.

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Speaker 1: She essentially said, it is absolutely inappropriate to suggest that

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Speaker 1: this man should not spend any time in jail. She

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Speaker 1: said it she all amos was suggesting. It was INCOMPREHENI.

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Speaker 1: It didn't make sense the argument that you all were

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Speaker 1: making for the one day.

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Speaker 3: No, it made no sense at all, and she just

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Speaker 3: felt like it was it was a slap in the face.

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Speaker 3: It truly was, and so there was some relief when

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Speaker 3: finally there was a decision by this judge to say, no,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to do the one day. I am

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Speaker 3: going to give two years and nine months or whatever

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Speaker 3: it ended up being it. And look, it wasn't exactly

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Speaker 3: what Taylor's or Taylor's family wanted, but it was something,

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Speaker 3: and it was better than one day, and it was

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Speaker 3: certainly better than nothing. And at one point they thought

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Speaker 3: that he might be going free without any other.

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Speaker 1: Punishment, and they said as much today it came out

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Speaker 1: and made their statements, and you could tell that they

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Speaker 1: weren't necessarily celebrating, but they knew they were preparing themselves

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Speaker 1: for him not to do any time in jail, So

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Speaker 1: at least they accepted that.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: The thing we were in a lot of people, and

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Speaker 1: I remember covering this story a lot when it first

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Speaker 1: went down. People couldn't understand why is it that three

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Speaker 1: people showed up that night and again the incident in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty, they show up to serve a no knock

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Speaker 1: warrant at this house. Breonna Taylor and her boyfriend are

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Speaker 1: sleeping inside at the time.

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Speaker 2: Now it's you.

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Speaker 1: Got different reports about whether or not they announced themselves

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Speaker 1: or not. Neighbors say they heard one thing, other folks

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Speaker 1: say they didn't hear anything, but no knock warrant And

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Speaker 1: Brionna Taylor's boyfriend fire is a shot. I mean, he

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Speaker 1: has a weapon that he is registered, licensed to have,

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Speaker 1: and he fired at the officers, hitting one of them.

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Speaker 1: They returned fire. Two officers returned fire from a particular position,

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Speaker 1: and then a third officer, Hankinson we're talking about, fired

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Speaker 1: into the home. But blindly. He fired into a window

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Speaker 1: that had blinds. He couldn't see what he was shooting at.

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Speaker 3: And that is against police standard operating procedures. You have

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Speaker 3: to be able to see who you are shooting at.

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Speaker 3: That is clear as day. What ended up happening is

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Speaker 3: those ten bullets he fired into a window with blinds.

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Speaker 3: One or two or few of those bullets went into

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Speaker 3: another apartment where a pregnant woman, her five year old son,

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Speaker 3: and her boyfriend were all sleeping. They were not hit, thankfully,

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Speaker 3: But the judge pointed out, you were just lucky, I mean,

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Speaker 3: you were just lucky that no one else was injured.

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Speaker 3: But he threatened to other people's lives. The actual count

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Speaker 3: that he was charged with and convicted of, was violating

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Speaker 3: Breonna Taylor's civil rights by using excessive force in discharging

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Speaker 3: those ten shots through her window that ended up going

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Speaker 3: into another apartment as well.

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Speaker 2: And you know I do deep dives from some of

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Speaker 2: these things.

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Speaker 1: It's a Fourth Amendment issue. She has the right against

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Speaker 1: illegal or excessive search and seizure. By firing that many

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Speaker 1: bullets into the home, the legal argument is that that

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Speaker 1: was excessive force that went beyond what is normal search

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Speaker 1: and seizure, and that was the Fourth Amendment violation. Now,

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Speaker 1: he was also charged with something else because the bullets

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Speaker 1: missed her. That he was charged with endangerment. He got

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Speaker 1: off on state charges of endangerment. The federal charges tried

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Speaker 1: to mention those things, but.

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Speaker 2: He got off on that.

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Speaker 3: Phuy.

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Speaker 1: He was a hunger on that count. So the only

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Speaker 1: thing he was charged with was this one thing. So

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Speaker 1: what we are saying ropes like, there's some legalities to

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Speaker 1: get into there, but this is the fact. The only

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Speaker 1: officer charged in the shooting death of Brianna Taylor is

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Speaker 1: the officer who missed her. That is tough to stomach

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Speaker 1: at times for a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: Well, if you are Breonna Taylor's mom. If you are

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Speaker 3: someone who loved and knew Brianna Taylor, yeah, that's gonna

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Speaker 3: piss you off. The two men who actually did put

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Speaker 3: bullets into their loved one again, she was sleeping. Those

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Speaker 3: two men. Then, those two police officers weren't charged, aren't

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Speaker 3: going to jail, and are living their lives. And the

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Speaker 3: reason is because they said Brianna Taylor's boyfriend fired their shots.

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Speaker 3: He did say very and this is understandable. He said

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Speaker 3: he thought they were intruders. He thought someone was breaking

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Speaker 3: into their home. The police officers didn't have to announce

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Speaker 3: who they were. So, yeah, someone's breaking into your home,

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Speaker 3: you have a weapon, you're sleeping as well. You might

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Speaker 3: be disoriented, almost certainly you are, but you go into

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Speaker 3: fight or flight, right, So he went into fight mode

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Speaker 3: and he fired a shot. And because he fired a

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Speaker 3: shot at those officers, the officers who then returned fire

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Speaker 3: were within their rights as police officers to do so.

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Speaker 3: It just so happened those bullets went into Brianna Taylor. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: it's just a.

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Speaker 2: This is a wild, wild scenario.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it led to all kinds of reform that

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Speaker 1: the Louisville Police department. What was it twelve million dollars

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Speaker 1: that her family got from the rural police department as well,

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Speaker 1: oh the city there so people admitted fault. This is

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Speaker 1: just this was one of those things that's hard to

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Speaker 1: stomach to understand that five years later, dozens of bullets

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Speaker 1: or shots were fired. Yes, and the only person who

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Speaker 1: missed her is the one that is being punished, the

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Speaker 1: one that is getting jail time. However, folks, I know

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Speaker 1: one officer we've been talking about, did did receive a sentence,

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Speaker 1: is supposed to be going to prison, but already people

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Speaker 1: are talking about one person who could step in right

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Speaker 1: now and with the stroke of a pen keep this

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Speaker 1: officer from ever setting foot in prison.

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Speaker 3: Welcome back everyone to this edition of Amy and TJ.

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Speaker 3: We are talking about the Brianna Taylor case and it's

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Speaker 3: confusing from a criminal and legal standpoint. But yes, the

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Speaker 3: only person right now who has been convicted among those

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Speaker 3: three police officers who fired bullets is the one officer

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Speaker 3: whose bullets never even hit Breonna Taylor. And so yes,

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Speaker 3: he was sentenced to thirty three months behind bars, but

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Speaker 3: only because the judge in the case went against the

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Speaker 3: prosecutors when against the defense recommendations. They each put in

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Speaker 3: their sentencing recommendations. The prosecution said, we're good with one day. Obviously,

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Speaker 3: the defense didn't want their client to go to prison

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Speaker 3: for any days, and essentially the prosecution was saying, we'll

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Speaker 3: just give him credit for time serve, so he wouldn't

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Speaker 3: have actually been going to prison at all. But the

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Speaker 3: judge in this case, Rebecca Grady Jennings is her name.

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Speaker 3: So Judge Jennings decided that she wasn't going to do that.

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Speaker 3: She decided to take issue, and she pointed out that

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Speaker 3: this isn't this wasn't a expected and she was disappointed

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Speaker 3: by the DOJ's recommendation of just one day. So she

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Speaker 3: settled on thirty three months. But that even is far

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Speaker 3: less than what the maximum penalty could have been. Haykinson

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Speaker 3: could have been sentenced to life in prison with the

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Speaker 3: charge he was convicted of. So she went with thirty

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Speaker 3: three months better than one day or zero days, but

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Speaker 3: certainly doesn't feel like justice.

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Speaker 2: What was it? She said?

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Speaker 1: She kind of got on to them for being inappropriate

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Speaker 1: in act asking for one day. She kind of went

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Speaker 1: a little farther and saying, kind of your argument is

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Speaker 1: incomprehensible and almost called it.

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Speaker 2: I'm using the word silly.

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Speaker 1: Here, but to suggest that his actions were inconsequential, I

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Speaker 1: think it's how they put it. There was a suggestion

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Speaker 1: by saying one day, it's as if what he did

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Speaker 1: didn't matter just because he had blind luck in not

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Speaker 1: hitting somebody and killings in the next apartment. So, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the judge, I was interested in her some of the comments,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, she completely rejected this idea of one day.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she called them out and said, this is

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Speaker 3: a one eighty from what we heard before. And again

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Speaker 3: we pointed out before we went to break that two

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Speaker 3: different administrations were leading the Department of Justice throughout this process.

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Speaker 3: So the one eighty might have been politically motivated in

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Speaker 3: the sense that they just had different agendas or different

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Speaker 3: perceptions of what was fair and what was just. And

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Speaker 3: so yes, it was a complete about face. So the

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Speaker 3: judge called them out on that and said this isn't

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Speaker 3: appropriate and made the decision she made. And you know,

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Speaker 3: the Taylor family said that they were grateful to the

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Speaker 3: judge for giving some time because they really were preparing

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Speaker 3: themselves to walk away with nothing, because that's when you

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Speaker 3: hear the prosecution is recommending nothing. Essentially, they were preparing

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Speaker 3: themselves for that, so they said they're disappointed, but they're

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Speaker 3: grateful and that that makes a lot of sense.

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Speaker 1: But already, and this is key, folks, Brett Hankerson did

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Speaker 1: deal with state charges. All those state cases, those are over.

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Speaker 1: Now what he just dealt with now that he's been

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Speaker 1: convicted of again, not convicted on any state charges, but

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Speaker 1: convicted now of fedaal charges and robes is very key

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Speaker 1: that this is a fedaal case because there is someone

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Speaker 1: in the Fedda Oral government who could bail him out,

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Speaker 1: and this is already being talked about.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And we should make it very clear here that

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Speaker 3: Brett Haykieson, the former police officer who has been convicted

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Speaker 3: and has been sentenced now to thirty three months behind bars,

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Speaker 3: is not behind bars right now. He is free. He's

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Speaker 3: likely home with his family, but his attorneys have filed

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Speaker 3: for an appeal, and while they're waiting for that appeal,

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Speaker 3: he is going to remain out on bond, so to speak,

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Speaker 3: before he serves his sentencing time. But a lot of

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Speaker 3: folks are wondering if he's even going to even need

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Speaker 3: to move forward with the appeal or even worry about

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Speaker 3: heading to jail to serve that time, because there is

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Speaker 3: someone who is the head of the federal government who

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Speaker 3: can commute his sentence, who can pardon him, who can

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Speaker 3: make sure he doesn't spend a day in jail. That's

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Speaker 3: President Trump.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I guess he could commute it. I mean

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Speaker 1: he could simply commute it, or do time served, or

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Speaker 1: cut it down and not vacate the conviction not clear

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Speaker 1: his record. That's an option as well. But it's the

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Speaker 1: White House. It's the Trump administration that was pushing for

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Speaker 1: him to have one day. It was the Trump administration

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Speaker 1: who actually said he is not a.

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Speaker 2: Threat to the community.

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Speaker 1: Is the Trump administration who filed officially paperwork saying that

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Speaker 1: this man what is it? They said, never in the

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Speaker 1: history of the world or something that has there ever

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Speaker 1: been someone who has been sentenced to time in jail

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Speaker 1: for firing a weapon in defense and not hitting anybody.

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Speaker 1: I mean they they yes, argued, I mean they were

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Speaker 1: literally on his side in terms of his prison sentence.

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Speaker 2: So would we be surprised.

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Speaker 3: It's reasonable to believe that if that is what the

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Speaker 3: Department of Justice was arguing for a basically a zero

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Speaker 3: day sentence, one day sentence. That that would be the

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Speaker 3: same line of thinking that would cause someone like President

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Speaker 3: Trump to say, hey, well, I don't like and you

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Speaker 3: know he doesn't like judges making decisions, which is funny,

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Speaker 3: but he really has an issue with a lot of judges.

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Speaker 3: And so for him, he may say, hey, a judge

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Speaker 3: shouldn't go beyond what a prosecutor is asking. You should

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Speaker 3: respect where the Department of Justice was on this case,

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Speaker 3: and you went outside of what the DJ was asking.

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Speaker 3: And so that could be not that he needs a

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Speaker 3: reason to do what he does or to make the

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Speaker 3: decisions he does, but you could see where his mind

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Speaker 3: and his reasoning might go to that place.

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Speaker 1: I was a betting man, and you just would have

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Speaker 1: convinced me to go with Trump is probably going.

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Speaker 3: To And what's that going to do? What's that reaction

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Speaker 3: going to be? What's going to happen?

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Speaker 1: Then?

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Speaker 3: I mean say her name? Hashtags say her name? And

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Speaker 3: I haven't heard that in a while. Obviously it was

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Speaker 3: five years ago when this all was going on. But

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Speaker 3: what do we see if that were to happen, what

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Speaker 3: would the reaction be.

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Speaker 1: It's going to be a bigger uproar if he does

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Speaker 1: it that way instead of the Department of Justice doing

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Speaker 1: it the way they were trying to do it, which

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Speaker 1: was simply saying we are not pushing for a jail sentence.

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Speaker 1: If he would have just gone home, I think that

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Speaker 1: it would be that would have been a little quieter.

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Speaker 2: But if the.

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Speaker 1: President, after a judge says this man should stay in

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Speaker 1: prison for two and a half plus years for his

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Speaker 1: actions on the night that led to the death of

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Speaker 1: Brianna Taylor, say her name, innocent woman, and Trump is

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Speaker 1: going to say, you know what, Nope, he shouldn't be

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Speaker 1: punished at all for his role in her death. That

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Speaker 1: reads different from the DOJ just saying one day in prison.

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Speaker 1: That is going to be a if if if.

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Speaker 3: That's and here's another part of this situation. The New

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Speaker 3: York Times had something very interesting talking about that the

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Speaker 3: Department of Justice made this request for credit for time

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Speaker 3: served in the same vein and the same efforts to

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Speaker 3: abandon addressing racial disparities in policing. This has been a

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Speaker 3: theme obviously with the second term for the Trump administration

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Speaker 3: doing away with die policies. Not wanting to point out

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Speaker 3: d I always say that d Ei. I always say

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Speaker 3: that is dee I. But it's this this same agenda

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Speaker 3: that President Trump has had about the culture war agenda,

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Speaker 3: the wokeness, like the diversity, like we're not going to

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Speaker 3: talk about black versus white, a white officer and a

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Speaker 3: black victim. So they may say this is all a

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Speaker 3: part of that as well. There trying to stop this

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Speaker 3: race based prosecutioner. This is what part of their reasoning

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Speaker 3: was for asking for one day, just one day.

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Speaker 2: This is.

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Speaker 1: You know what I didn't realize we should mention. I

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Speaker 1: don't think we have. There are three other officers involved

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Speaker 1: in this case who were not on the scene that night,

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Speaker 1: robes that were I guess essentially charged for their behavior afterwards,

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Speaker 1: we're essentially talking about obstruction and conspiracy and we're talking

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Speaker 1: about trying to forge some paperwork and live.

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Speaker 3: Yes, it's really crazy because again, the two officers who

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Speaker 3: actually fired the fatal bullets into Breonna Taylor no charges,

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Speaker 3: no trials, no convictions, no nothing. But all these folks,

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Speaker 3: there are three people who are being charged, and two

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Speaker 3: of them weren't even on the scene. So one former

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Speaker 3: officer named Kelly Goodlitch, she pleaded guilty by the way,

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Speaker 3: she's gonna be sentenced in February for a federal conspiracy

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Speaker 3: charge because she did something with the paperwork and the

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Speaker 3: actual paperwork, yeah, paperwork, but yes, she falsified documents after

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Speaker 3: the fact about this no knock warrant. Now there are

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Speaker 3: two other people, Joshua James and Kyle Meani, and they

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Speaker 3: are charged. These are other Louisville Metro Police officers. They

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Speaker 3: are charged for again falsifying records and conspiring to cover

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Speaker 3: it up after the fact and lying to federal investigators.

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Speaker 3: So it was all about a cover up, but it

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Speaker 3: had nothing to do conspiracy with the actual act of

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Speaker 3: killing Brianna Taylor.

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Speaker 1: So yes, four four officers, Yes.

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Speaker 3: And totally you're right. Four officers, So.

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Speaker 1: Six officers involved, four facing charges, the two who shot

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Speaker 1: her are the only two that never faced charges, and

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Speaker 1: three over paper work and lies.

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Speaker 3: It makes your blood boil a little, doesn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you want to trust in the system.

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Speaker 2: You have to. We just have to.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't work if we don't trust in some way.

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Speaker 1: But there in it sometimes it feels like it fails

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Speaker 1: us greatly. And this is one you can certainly understand

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Speaker 1: why Breonna Taylor, whose family is are they still seeking justice?

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Speaker 1: What more can you do after this?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if finally some closures, some finality

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Speaker 1: to it with this, I don't know, but it might

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Speaker 1: not be over because they might see a headline in

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Speaker 1: a few days or a post on truth Social that

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Speaker 1: says Brett Hankerson is never going to prison.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I can't imagine what that could set off in

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Speaker 3: terms of just that anger is right there. I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's it's there just for what the outcome is as

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Speaker 3: it is, but to have that go a step further

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Speaker 3: is even tougher. And obviously there's so much conversations about

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Speaker 3: no knock warrants and whether or not that's even legal.

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Speaker 3: To not announce yourself, that's another unthinkable situation. I can't

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Speaker 3: even imagine putting myself in someone choose, where you're in

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Speaker 3: a home and people are busting in and yelling and

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Speaker 3: you have no idea who it is. I mean, that's

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Speaker 3: frightening and scary, and I don't think anyone really knows

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Speaker 3: how they'd react until they were put in that situation.

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Speaker 3: But we will follow this story to see if there

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Speaker 3: are any new developments, and you can count on us

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Speaker 3: to certainly weigh in if there are, but thank you

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Speaker 3: so much for joining us today. I'm Ami roboch On

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Speaker 3: behalf of my partner t J. Holmes. Have a great night, everybody,