Speaker 1: You and Me Both is a production of I Heart Radio.
Speaker 1: I'm Hillary Clinton and this is You and Me Both. Today,
Speaker 1: I'm talking about and talking to gutsy women. I have
Speaker 1: always been interested in the stories of individual women and
Speaker 1: the impact that their lives have had on not only
Speaker 1: themselves and their families, but you know, on professions, on politics,
Speaker 1: on the economy, on science, you name it, and Chelsea
Speaker 1: and I wrote an entire book on this subject, actually
Speaker 1: called the Book of Gutsy Women. Because from the very
Speaker 1: time she was a tiny little girl, I would tell
Speaker 1: her stories about women I admired. But there was a
Speaker 1: big difference. When she was a little girl, there were
Speaker 1: women doing things that she could herself see an experience,
Speaker 1: like her pediatrician was a woman. The mayor of Little Rock, Arkansas,
Speaker 1: where she was born, was a woman. That wasn't the
Speaker 1: case for me when I was a little girl, and
Speaker 1: my mother encouraged me to go to the library and
Speaker 1: to check out books about Amelia Earhart or Eleanor Roosevelt,
Speaker 1: or Maria tal Chief, the fabulous Native American ballerina, and
Speaker 1: so many others. Later in the show, we'll be hearing
Speaker 1: from Tammy Duckworth in a Rock war veteran, a mom
Speaker 1: and now senator from the great state of Illinois. But first,
Speaker 1: I'm talking to the one and only Andrew Day. I
Speaker 1: first encountered Andrew Day through her music. Andrew is an
Speaker 1: incredible singer with two Grammy nominations to show for it,
Speaker 1: and I got to see her talent up close when
Speaker 1: she joined me on the campaign trail in and then
Speaker 1: in January, she performed her song Rise Up as part
Speaker 1: of the virtual Inauguration parade for Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.
Speaker 1: Now she's starring in her first film as the iconic
Speaker 1: Billie Holiday in the United States Versus Billie Holiday, directed
Speaker 1: by Lee Daniels. Andre is following in the footsteps of
Speaker 1: two other gutsy women, Diana Ross and Audre McDonald, who
Speaker 1: have played Billie Holiday on screen and stage. I thought
Speaker 1: Andrew's performance just blew the top off. To prepare for
Speaker 1: the part, Andre immersed herself in the life of a
Speaker 1: woman who was supremely talented and fearless in shining a
Speaker 1: light on America's ugly history of lynching, even as she
Speaker 1: battled her own demons. And of course, Andrew does all
Speaker 1: her own singing in the film. The night before our conversation,
Speaker 1: she won a Golden Globe Award for Best Actress for
Speaker 1: her performance. I caught her at photo shoot the next
Speaker 1: day where she was borrowing a laptop. It was a
Speaker 1: really busy day, but I could not be happier to
Speaker 1: be able to talk to this extraordinary person. Oh, I
Speaker 1: am hugging you so much right now. I hope you
Speaker 1: can feel every out of it. Oh my god, how
Speaker 1: are you feeling? The day after winning the Golden Globe.
Speaker 1: I'm still like, I don't even know the words. I
Speaker 1: was trying to figure that out say. I was like,
Speaker 1: what do I feel? Gratitude? For sure? The one thing
Speaker 1: I say and I will always say, is God is great,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, And you put such incredible
Speaker 1: people in my path. I mean the way these people
Speaker 1: poured into me, you know, the way my team and
Speaker 1: people have supported me, and people like you have supported
Speaker 1: in that in ways to me that don't even make sense,
Speaker 1: you know, But God's so great. So I just feel
Speaker 1: just it just makes me think of everybody who has
Speaker 1: been a part of this whole journey, and it's just
Speaker 1: like a blessing. I'm so grateful when you were chosen
Speaker 1: by Lead Annuals to do this part. How did you
Speaker 1: first react? Because you had not been acting? I mean,
Speaker 1: you've got the most amazing you know, musical ability, and
Speaker 1: I personally, you know, I love your singing. But thank you.
Speaker 1: This was a real challenge for you, and I know
Speaker 1: you give a lot of credit to your team, But
Speaker 1: what did you have to do inside to be able
Speaker 1: to get there? I had to do a lot. And
Speaker 1: it's funny because when I got the role, When Lee
Speaker 1: told me I got the role, my reaction wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: like Okay, I'm so great, I'm ready to do It
Speaker 1: was sort of like are you sure? You looked at
Speaker 1: the reactors like why, I'm not, Like it's not a
Speaker 1: good idea. He's like, wow, you're annoying just come to say,
Speaker 1: you know. But once I really prayed about it, and
Speaker 1: like dove In, I mean, it was everything, you know,
Speaker 1: because she's such a dynamic woman, But it was everything.
Speaker 1: It was studying addiction. It was sitting with heroin addicts
Speaker 1: and former addicts and learning how wow did you do that? Yes? Oh? Absolutely?
Speaker 1: And actually I'll share a story with you because I
Speaker 1: met a few. But there was a pair in particular,
Speaker 1: it was his sponsor and he owned the sober living home.
Speaker 1: And then it was a young kid who so he
Speaker 1: was thirty years sober, and the young kid was only
Speaker 1: like a year into his sobriety. And this young kid
Speaker 1: is teaching me, you know, where the nylon goes above
Speaker 1: the muscle, you know, and and just how to shoot
Speaker 1: up with not just they're used to plastic needles. Back
Speaker 1: then she would have been using glass, which was our
Speaker 1: track marks were so big. But and at a certain
Speaker 1: point he zoned like I see the sweat building on
Speaker 1: his brow, I see his pupils dilating, and he's locked
Speaker 1: into that moment. And so I asked that. I'm like,
Speaker 1: is it really okay like for him to be here?
Speaker 1: Like are we sure this is? He said, trust me,
Speaker 1: he's a big fan of music. This is a part
Speaker 1: of his recovery. It's you know, I got it, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But that kid, what he gave
Speaker 1: me in that moment was everything I needed to know
Speaker 1: about the need, about the mental illness behind it, the trauma,
Speaker 1: you know. So on top of that, it was working
Speaker 1: with my acting coach, Tasha Smith, and working closely with
Speaker 1: Lee and Tom Jones to get the voice right, and
Speaker 1: hopefully the singing voice, once I get it rehabilitated, will
Speaker 1: be the one you recognized. But my vocal cords are like,
Speaker 1: what are you doing well? But you, I mean you
Speaker 1: went all in. I mean you took up smoking, which
Speaker 1: Billy Holliday did. You lost a lot of weight, you
Speaker 1: cut your hair, yeah, hair that you had in order
Speaker 1: to prepare. So what I loved is it you inhabited
Speaker 1: Billy Holliday without imitating her. Yeah. That's actually a blessing
Speaker 1: to hear, because that's what Lee would tell me. It's
Speaker 1: got to be an interpretation, not an impersonation. And I
Speaker 1: think that's why, like you said, I don't drink, I
Speaker 1: don't smoke, I don't cuss. I'm not. For me, I
Speaker 1: took a vow of abstinence almost about seven years ago,
Speaker 1: so I'm not. I don't engage in that way either.
Speaker 1: But for me, that's why I had to be just
Speaker 1: generally more sexual in my behavior, you know, just cussing
Speaker 1: a lot, because she had like a PhD in putting
Speaker 1: a sentence together with cuss words. And then the smoking,
Speaker 1: the cigarettes, the drinking alcohol. I had to really feel
Speaker 1: it in my body, I think, because these weren't things
Speaker 1: that she just did socially, like I mean, the woman
Speaker 1: would wake up and have like kind of game, the
Speaker 1: way you might have a cup of coffee, you know.
Speaker 1: So right, she lived hard. She lived hard. So it
Speaker 1: was just in order to really become her, as you said,
Speaker 1: in order to I had to feel some of these things.
Speaker 1: And honestly, like, yeah, it took a toll, you know,
Speaker 1: but I would do it exactly the same way again
Speaker 1: because her legacy, this is the Godmother of civil rights,
Speaker 1: Her legacy deserves I believe that level of dedication because
Speaker 1: she fought that hard for us, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: She did, And obviously it's a terrible story of her struggles,
Speaker 1: and it's made all the worst by the US government's
Speaker 1: campaign to destroyer to imprisoner, which is shown in the movie,
Speaker 1: and to stop her from singing a particular song called
Speaker 1: Strange Fruit, which helped to galvanize an anti lynching movement
Speaker 1: across America, because Billie Holiday understood that she could use
Speaker 1: her artistry, her talent, her voice to try to sing
Speaker 1: about something that was so terrible. Did you know about
Speaker 1: the song before you played? Billie Holliday. I didn't know
Speaker 1: about the song. I did because she is my biggest inspiration.
Speaker 1: That's where the Day comes from in my name. So
Speaker 1: I love the relationship between her and Lester Young, and
Speaker 1: he gave her the name Lady Day. So I've been
Speaker 1: a huge fan since I was like eleven years old.
Speaker 1: And the first two songs I heard was one called
Speaker 1: Sugar and then I heard Strange Fruit, and so you
Speaker 1: can imagine hearing that at eleven, You're like, what's going on?
Speaker 1: Why do I feel different inside? You know? But what
Speaker 1: I recognized and that was like sacrifice. I just felt
Speaker 1: bad for this woman singing whatever is happening and whatever
Speaker 1: she's talking about his real loss. You know. I think
Speaker 1: what makes me so happy about this movie is most
Speaker 1: people know her, you know, as it's great jazz singer,
Speaker 1: but troubled, troubled troubled, which was so not the case,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. She was fighting for lives,
Speaker 1: for our actual, very lives, and so it was her
Speaker 1: singing this song in defiance of the government and and
Speaker 1: the death of him until that reinvigorated third Good Marshal
Speaker 1: in the movement. I don't believe we would have civil
Speaker 1: rights the way we know it today, if it were
Speaker 1: not for her singing this song. When you realize she
Speaker 1: was doing all of that police civil rights, you go, wow,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like they had to silence
Speaker 1: her because those are strong shoulders, really powerful strong shoulders.
Speaker 1: I think that's one of the many reasons why the
Speaker 1: film is so important. I kept thinking how brave she was.
Speaker 1: You know, she could have made a deal, made it clear. Okay, fine,
Speaker 1: you sat me to prison. You know, you kind of
Speaker 1: entrapped me with drugs. Okay, I'm gonna go back to
Speaker 1: my career. I won't sing that song. She never promise
Speaker 1: that would she know she never would, and she never did.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure she had moments where she's like
Speaker 1: because listen, there were moments when she would leave certain
Speaker 1: clubs after singing that song and the police would actually
Speaker 1: pursue her, shooting into her car, like with the intent
Speaker 1: to kill her. So she could have easily said alright, fine,
Speaker 1: you know, and still made a splash and still had
Speaker 1: a great career, and still and probably would have had
Speaker 1: a better career, you know, even though she was a superstar,
Speaker 1: but probably would have had a better career. But it's
Speaker 1: just for that woman to be portrayed so frequently, you know,
Speaker 1: and to still stick to it and to still sing
Speaker 1: this song and to hold a mirror up to American culture,
Speaker 1: because I think that was the huge thing at the time,
Speaker 1: was that I think America wanted to look at lynching
Speaker 1: as they were comfortable looking at it as this horrific
Speaker 1: act done by sort of a fringe group of you know, racists,
Speaker 1: but it's not. It was a culture. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1: I'm curious to know when did you first discover singing
Speaker 1: not only something that you were good at because a
Speaker 1: lot of us like to sing and then we learned
Speaker 1: we're not good at it, but that it was a
Speaker 1: really unique expression for you. M M. Yeah. Me, it
Speaker 1: was so much a part of my life for my
Speaker 1: entire life. My mother can sing, my father can sing.
Speaker 1: They always have music on in the house. So my
Speaker 1: earliest memories are of my dad washing the car and
Speaker 1: us singing together, where my mom would be kind of
Speaker 1: be in the kitchen and she has this dance move
Speaker 1: that she does. It's like burned into my memory and singing,
Speaker 1: you know, all the time. But I believe it was
Speaker 1: like around six years old and it was singing Whitney Houston.
Speaker 1: Honestly that it was like we love just listening to
Speaker 1: her in the house, and so that that I think
Speaker 1: around six years old, really singing Whitney was the first
Speaker 1: time I realized and my family realized like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: you could actually singing. You have a nice voice, you know.
Speaker 1: And where did you grow up? I grew up in
Speaker 1: southeast San Diego. So yeah, my father was in the military,
Speaker 1: so and spent time in Detroit, where my father is from,
Speaker 1: born in Seattle, you know. So it's like definitely a
Speaker 1: military touring, you know what I mean. And so and
Speaker 1: then he was stationed at the base in San Diego.
Speaker 1: And that's why I grew up spent my life. And
Speaker 1: where was the first time that you sang publicly outside
Speaker 1: of you know, washing cars and in your kitchen and
Speaker 1: so um, publicly at Stually, I went to a performing
Speaker 1: arts school and I started at the school when I
Speaker 1: was in the sixth grade, when I was a loving
Speaker 1: dance was my main thing at the time, actually, and
Speaker 1: I just did like choral ensemble and all those those
Speaker 1: different things. And I just have a love for just
Speaker 1: music and for creating and for you know, the stage
Speaker 1: and for the arts. You know, I love the idea
Speaker 1: of performing arts schools because I think there's so many
Speaker 1: kids who could benefit from going to such a school
Speaker 1: if we had enough of them. But over the years,
Speaker 1: you've used your voice too, as one of your songs
Speaker 1: says stand up for something. And you know, I obviously
Speaker 1: loved having you with me on the campaign trail, and
Speaker 1: then I was thrilled with your performance of Rise Up,
Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite songs, as part of
Speaker 1: the Biden Harris inauguration. How did that feel to you
Speaker 1: being part of that historic moment, especially with you know,
Speaker 1: Vice President Kamala Harris taking office. Yes, I mean, and
Speaker 1: I have and I just you know, learned this from
Speaker 1: my mother and from my grandmother and from Billie Holiday.
Speaker 1: And you know, watching women like you, like VP Kamala
Speaker 1: here is like Michelle Obama. I mean, when women are
Speaker 1: in positions of leadership, it has proven the numbers are there,
Speaker 1: economies do better, you know what I mean. And so
Speaker 1: for me, it's like it was incredible, it was historic.
Speaker 1: It was a moment after so much darkness, a moment
Speaker 1: for hope. And it's amazing to see her face in there.
Speaker 1: And you know, having met her, and I mean one
Speaker 1: of the first things we did was prayed together, and so,
Speaker 1: as I said, I have such a need and a
Speaker 1: passion to see more women in positions of leadership. Well,
Speaker 1: and one of the things we've learned during this year
Speaker 1: of pandemic is that countries run by women have done
Speaker 1: better they have There you go, which is an important
Speaker 1: lesson that I would like to see imparted. How have
Speaker 1: you managed the pandemic? You had finished filming before that.
Speaker 1: We did, We got everything in the can. We finished
Speaker 1: filming December, literally right before everything kicked up. So managing
Speaker 1: during the pandemic, I mean, it's just you know, just
Speaker 1: you know what it is. It's just gratitude, because like
Speaker 1: I sat down and I was just remember thinking like, man,
Speaker 1: this changes everything. How are we going to do this?
Speaker 1: How are we going to do A B and C?
Speaker 1: And then I stopped and I realized, like, people are
Speaker 1: choosing between shelter and food right now, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So I just had to really stop and
Speaker 1: just be like, you should be super super grateful. That's
Speaker 1: not a choice that you have to make. You can
Speaker 1: take care of your family and you guys can sustain,
Speaker 1: so actually figure out how you can serve in this
Speaker 1: time if you really want to write and so um yeah,
Speaker 1: we actually paired with this charity Give Directly or Incredible
Speaker 1: and started this I Give Directly charity, which was just
Speaker 1: getting money into the hands of people who needed it
Speaker 1: the most. And I like that a lot because I
Speaker 1: think it gave people dignity to make choices with their
Speaker 1: own money. So it was beautiful. That's how we focused. Well,
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear you underscore the importance of gratitude.
Speaker 1: I believe that with all my heart. In fact, I
Speaker 1: have a phrase about the discipline of gratitude and how
Speaker 1: people you know should practice it like we practice, you know,
Speaker 1: being healthy or you know, trying to exercise in a
Speaker 1: lot of others. I love that because sometimes you don't
Speaker 1: want to feel gratitude. No, I mean you you almost
Speaker 1: you almost rejected, grateful for what you know went wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm too upset to worry about gratitude. But you know
Speaker 1: you have now You've had multiple hit songs, a starring
Speaker 1: role in a film under your belt. Up, where where
Speaker 1: do you see your career going? Do you want to
Speaker 1: do more acting? You know? It's so funny all my
Speaker 1: co stars would laugh at me right now, because when
Speaker 1: I was on the movie set, I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: I'm out, my vocal cords hate me, my body hates me.
Speaker 1: I was like no. But now, like kind of being
Speaker 1: on the other side of things, I think I do
Speaker 1: not a lot. I'm not gonna be honest, not a
Speaker 1: lot as far as acting goes. Just maybe a few more.
Speaker 1: Just whatever really speaks to me and grabs me the
Speaker 1: same way Billy did. But the thing I really really
Speaker 1: have a need to tell is our stories, you know,
Speaker 1: So I would like to. I started writing some things
Speaker 1: and developing a few things, and I love to co write,
Speaker 1: co direct, and co produce pictures because you know, Billy
Speaker 1: Holiday story is one in a million stories that have
Speaker 1: the narrative has been suppressed and the narrative has been changed. Right,
Speaker 1: That's how sort of systemic inequality works. That's how oppression works,
Speaker 1: is you have to control the narrative. So I just
Speaker 1: feel like there's so many great stories of our contribution,
Speaker 1: and I think telling the truth of those narratives is
Speaker 1: going to be integral in really dismantling this system, piece
Speaker 1: by piece by piece so that we can actually, you know,
Speaker 1: have space for equality, space for everybody. I think that
Speaker 1: is the most important task facing us as a country. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that does take a lot of bravery, because you've
Speaker 1: got to be willing to stand up and tell stories
Speaker 1: that are uncomfortable and and hear those stories and learn
Speaker 1: from those stories. And I wanted to ask you about bravery.
Speaker 1: I mean, when you look back now, what do you
Speaker 1: think is the bravest thing you've ever done? What do
Speaker 1: you look at and feel like, Wow, that really was hard. Wow. Well, listen,
Speaker 1: I gotta tell you this movie because I did not,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I was when I tell you, I
Speaker 1: was trying to run from this movie in every single way,
Speaker 1: you know. First of all, as simply as I can
Speaker 1: put it, I did not want to suck. I did
Speaker 1: not want to be terrible, and I was a hundred
Speaker 1: percent certain I would be. I had never This is
Speaker 1: my first acting role, you know, on on screen. And
Speaker 1: I didn't want to dishonor Billy Holiday's legacy because I
Speaker 1: love her so, so so much. And the other thing
Speaker 1: is I didn't want to dishonor Diana's legacy, right, who
Speaker 1: played her so beautifully in nineteen seventy two. And it
Speaker 1: was such a feat to get that film done. You know,
Speaker 1: it was just so many layers to why. I was like,
Speaker 1: but the main thing was just really interestingly enough something
Speaker 1: that I believe God used this role in her her spirit.
Speaker 1: She worked out of me, not out of me. It's
Speaker 1: still working on it, but I have just really deep
Speaker 1: seated feelings of just unworthiness and inadequacy. I never feel
Speaker 1: like I belong. I have a fraud mentality, Like I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm a fraud every place that I go,
Speaker 1: and I'm overcoming that is like difficult, it's impossible. It's
Speaker 1: why when they told me the first time you wanted
Speaker 1: to call me, I was like no, and they're like
Speaker 1: why not? I was like, what are I talking to
Speaker 1: her about? She's brilliant, she's so smart. I didn't even
Speaker 1: go to college, like or graduate, so I'm like, why
Speaker 1: would I talk to But it's that constant feeling of
Speaker 1: just not being good enough. But you know, it was
Speaker 1: a prayer, actually was a scripture about walking on water
Speaker 1: and doing an act of great faith that made me
Speaker 1: do it meetingly. His fire, his dedication to Billie holiday
Speaker 1: fearless storytelling, and his need to honor her legacy and
Speaker 1: to make her a hero. It was all those things
Speaker 1: that made me say yes ultimately and dyeing in and
Speaker 1: we are so glad you did. Thank you. But I
Speaker 1: will tell you every day I say he would laugh
Speaker 1: at me because every day on set I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think today is the day they're going to realize
Speaker 1: I'm no good and they're gonna fire me, like, shut up,
Speaker 1: shut up. You know what that is called. It's called
Speaker 1: the imposter syndrome, and it is a particular problem for talented,
Speaker 1: smart women. Wow, I wonder we could do a whole
Speaker 1: show on that. My dear, welcome back. You know. I
Speaker 1: can't tell you how excited I am to talk to you.
Speaker 1: And I know this, of all days, the day after
Speaker 1: your big award has to be jam packed with everybody
Speaker 1: in the world wanting to talk with you and do
Speaker 1: an interview with you. But it just means so much
Speaker 1: to me. If anybody deserved to have their hard work
Speaker 1: and their talent and their spirit recognized, it's you, my friend,
Speaker 1: and I only wish you the very best. Oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I love you, Thank you, my friend. Thank you makes
Speaker 1: me so happy. The United States versus Billie Holiday is
Speaker 1: now streaming on Hulu. My next guest is someone whose
Speaker 1: career I have followed for a long time, Senator Tammy Duckworth.
Speaker 1: You know I on I knew Tammy's story, but she
Speaker 1: has a new memoir out, and in reading it, I
Speaker 1: learned she's even braver than I realized. It's called every
Speaker 1: Day is a Gift. It's just out today. I heard
Speaker 1: you to track it down, and I'm delighted to be
Speaker 1: talking with her. Hey, how are you? Oh my gosh, Tammy,
Speaker 1: I can't tell you how excited I am to talk
Speaker 1: with you. And let's get right into it, because I
Speaker 1: know you're a pretty busy woman and I want to
Speaker 1: respect that. So it seems like an understatement, Senator, just
Speaker 1: say there's a lot going on right now. How are
Speaker 1: you and your family and those two adorable little children
Speaker 1: of yours getting alog? Oh my gosh, Well, you know, um,
Speaker 1: we're muddling through, just like all the other working families
Speaker 1: in Illinois and across the country are working through it.
Speaker 1: My six year old think goodness has gone back to
Speaker 1: in person classes because I was a miserable the carded teacher.
Speaker 1: I'm not trained, you know, I always had respect for teachers,
Speaker 1: but boy, I am not trained to do that. Um
Speaker 1: and my that's Abigail and my leap. Her will be
Speaker 1: three in April, so she's she's rambunctious us. I'll get up.
Speaker 1: I can't believe she's three. I remember when she was
Speaker 1: in your lap and you were breastfeeding on the floor
Speaker 1: of the Senate taking care of a baby. You know,
Speaker 1: I want to get to your book because I thought
Speaker 1: it was, you know, really great. Thank you. Let me
Speaker 1: start though, for listeners who may not know who you are.
Speaker 1: You're a veteran. You received a purple Heart at two
Speaker 1: thousand and four for your service in a rock and
Speaker 1: while you were there, an attack on the black Hawk
Speaker 1: helicopter that you were co piloting resulted in a crash
Speaker 1: and eventually in the amputation of both your legs. In
Speaker 1: a c Span interview, Senator, just a few months after
Speaker 1: the attack, I found you amazingly upbeat and optimistic. Where
Speaker 1: did you find that strength? Yeah, well, I'd had my
Speaker 1: darkest moment I've ever had, probably within the first two
Speaker 1: weeks after I woke up. So the attack happened on
Speaker 1: November twelve. I woke up in the hospital eleven days
Speaker 1: later at Walter read. My memory ends with trying to
Speaker 1: land the aircraft, and I went through a pretty dark
Speaker 1: period where I thought, well, remember when we landed the aircraft,
Speaker 1: But I thought that I had crashed the aircraft and
Speaker 1: it was my fault and I deserved to lose my legs.
Speaker 1: I go into this spiral down, into this depth of despair,
Speaker 1: and then I find out no, actually we landed it.
Speaker 1: That I fought until my last breath to actually help
Speaker 1: land that aircraft. And once I found that out, I've
Speaker 1: been fined ever since. Hillary. I mean, you know, I've
Speaker 1: been just so grateful that I'm alive. And I feel
Speaker 1: like the book is called every Day as a Gift,
Speaker 1: because every day since that day for me has been
Speaker 1: a gift. You really describe a process that is all
Speaker 1: too common for the men and women who serve our country,
Speaker 1: and especially over the last twenty plus years, who have
Speaker 1: been in and out of combat. You know, the sense
Speaker 1: of responsibility and duty really above all. But your journey
Speaker 1: starts in Thailand, and you write about what it was
Speaker 1: like to be the daughter of a Thai Chinese mother
Speaker 1: and a white American father living in Thailand, and frankly,
Speaker 1: the discrimination that you faced as a child of mixed background.
Speaker 1: What was that like and what do you think that
Speaker 1: experience so early in your life prepared you for well, Hilary.
Speaker 1: You know, growing up in Southeast Asia in the seventies
Speaker 1: post Vietnam, there written a lot of amoration children and
Speaker 1: the only amoration children around were the children of American
Speaker 1: gis and largely prostitutes and sex workers, you know. And
Speaker 1: there is rio stigma associated with that because most American
Speaker 1: gis left their Thai or Vietnamese girlfriends behind with the children. Um.
Speaker 1: Not many stayed and married and created a family the
Speaker 1: way my father did. And so it just brought great
Speaker 1: shame on my mom because everybody had looked at her,
Speaker 1: just assumed that she was something that she was not.
Speaker 1: I even talked in the book about how there was
Speaker 1: this whole dichotomy between being scorned as by Ratio as
Speaker 1: a half breed child. But on the other hand, there's
Speaker 1: these standards of beauty that are embraced where people wanted
Speaker 1: to buy me for my mom, and my mom was accosted,
Speaker 1: you know, by folks wanting to buy me. But it
Speaker 1: gave me this viewpoint of America that showed for me
Speaker 1: as now as a Senator, the struggle that immigrants go through,
Speaker 1: and its struggle especially last year. You know, I certainly
Speaker 1: wouldn't compare my experience to what Black Americans have gone
Speaker 1: through in the Black Lives Matter protests, but I will
Speaker 1: tell you it gave me an insight into that struggle
Speaker 1: to be accepted and my whole life. People say, well,
Speaker 1: where are you from? Really? I'm like, I'm American. My
Speaker 1: ancestors have been here since before the revolution, and like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: where are you from really? And then you and your
Speaker 1: family moved to Hawaii and you had a series of setbacks,
Speaker 1: You had economic setbacks, you had all kinds of difficulties
Speaker 1: kind of just keeping the family together. I would imagine
Speaker 1: that also gave you a kind of grounding in what
Speaker 1: it's like to have to really struggle. I have never
Speaker 1: worked harder. My family has never worked harder than when
Speaker 1: we were poor. There was at one point when I
Speaker 1: was fifteen, sixteen years old and the only person in
Speaker 1: my family with a job, and I was the one,
Speaker 1: you know, trying to help us pay the rent and
Speaker 1: put food on the table. And my mom at first
Speaker 1: when we moved to couldn't come with us because of
Speaker 1: immigration laws even though she had American children, she was
Speaker 1: married to an American. We didn't have the money for
Speaker 1: the visas, and and and the visas would have taken
Speaker 1: a while also, so she couldn't even come with us.
Speaker 1: And and I talked about, you know, trying to be
Speaker 1: mom at fifteen, you know, to my thirteen year old brother,
Speaker 1: and trying to buck up my dad to keep looking
Speaker 1: for jobs. At this point, he've been unemployed for three
Speaker 1: years since, still looking for a job. And finally, you know,
Speaker 1: taking matters into my own hands, after I blew up
Speaker 1: at my dad and went and found a job. What
Speaker 1: happened after Hawaii? Where did you go next? So my
Speaker 1: parents moved from Hawaii to Virginia because my dad, being
Speaker 1: a veteran and prior civil service, was able to get
Speaker 1: a job at GS four job Hillary, Oh boy, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's a real entry level job. That is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: very very very entry level. I think it was maybe
Speaker 1: ten dollars a year. And they left me behind because
Speaker 1: I had at this point been accepted to the University
Speaker 1: of Hawaii, and then after that I went to d C.
Speaker 1: We moved to Virginia to be with my folks, and
Speaker 1: I decided to go get my masters, and I was
Speaker 1: accepted into George Washington University. So you see that climb
Speaker 1: out of poverty and what it took to go step
Speaker 1: by step by step. You know. Just being able to
Speaker 1: finish high school for me was a miracle because I
Speaker 1: would have been more used to my family dropping out
Speaker 1: of high school and working two jobs. So they had
Speaker 1: to sacrifice to keep me in school. And so when
Speaker 1: did you decide to join the military. How did that
Speaker 1: come about? So you got your master's at GW you
Speaker 1: and then what happened? So I finished my first year
Speaker 1: in the Berlin Wall was coming down, so all I
Speaker 1: was watching people from Czechoslovakia as a country was splitting
Speaker 1: in half, running for the border, everything that they had,
Speaker 1: trying to get on these trains. It just for me
Speaker 1: brought back all those memories of me as an American
Speaker 1: with all of my privilege, watching Vietnamese boat people put
Speaker 1: everything that they had and their children into a rickety
Speaker 1: boat and going on into the ocean, you know. And
Speaker 1: so it brought back all these memories. And I wanted,
Speaker 1: I knew I wanted to serve. I thought I would
Speaker 1: serve in the Foreign service. I mean, you having been
Speaker 1: Secretary of State. It was like, my, you know, my
Speaker 1: dream job isn't being an ambassador. Let alone you know
Speaker 1: something that you did. There were guys in my class
Speaker 1: who like, kemmy, just go take our OTC and learn
Speaker 1: a little bit about the military. And I went off
Speaker 1: to basic training and fell in love with the great
Speaker 1: great What was it about the military? Was it the structure,
Speaker 1: the sense of mission and purpose? Yeah. I described this
Speaker 1: in the book because it was pretty miserable. You know,
Speaker 1: the girl starts as a yelling age. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a miserable time. But it was a pure meritocracy. It
Speaker 1: was all about are you willing to step up and
Speaker 1: help carry the load. And they didn't care that I
Speaker 1: was a little Asian girl. You know, they didn't care
Speaker 1: anything about me. They just wanted to know if I
Speaker 1: could shoot straight. And I was willing to help carry
Speaker 1: the load, you know, when the extra ammunition got heavy
Speaker 1: to duff with, step up and help carry the ammunition literally,
Speaker 1: you know, on on a march. My first time in
Speaker 1: my life where I was judged purely on how much
Speaker 1: effort I was willing to put into it. And don't
Speaker 1: get me wrong, I mean I I you know, I
Speaker 1: talked about this in the book. I described locking myself
Speaker 1: in the lotrine and crying and then coming back out.
Speaker 1: It's like, Okay, it's hard, but I love what you
Speaker 1: say about it being a meritocracy. I mean, it's one
Speaker 1: of the reasons why the military still remains such a
Speaker 1: ladder of opportunity for you know, young people, whether it's
Speaker 1: urban or rural settings, who want to figure out how
Speaker 1: to get themselves upwardly mobile and find the military as
Speaker 1: a great way to do that. And so you you
Speaker 1: were in Rozie and then did you join the reserves?
Speaker 1: At that point, I did. What you do is you
Speaker 1: make this list. It's a wish list you give to
Speaker 1: the army, and then the army decide. So one of
Speaker 1: the instructors, i was the only female in my class
Speaker 1: at the time, said everyone, you've got to write down
Speaker 1: combat arms jobs, even if you want to become, you know,
Speaker 1: a finance officer. Except for Duckworth, she's female. She doesn't
Speaker 1: have to write any down. Oh come on, I know.
Speaker 1: And my instructors actually lied to me and said women
Speaker 1: couldn't serve in combat. But there were two combat jobs,
Speaker 1: air defense, artillery and aviation, and so I applied for
Speaker 1: a Reserve Forces commission in order to get aviation to
Speaker 1: become a helicopter pilot. Did you see this as a
Speaker 1: potentially long term career that you thought, maybe this is
Speaker 1: what I want to do, or did you still think
Speaker 1: of it as a reserve officer duty. I only ever
Speaker 1: wanted to do it part time. I still was pursuing
Speaker 1: my dream of the Foreign Service, like I I still
Speaker 1: to this day. You know, I would love to be
Speaker 1: you know, that young junior Foreign Service officer stamping passports
Speaker 1: in it know, in a mission out in the boonies somewhere.
Speaker 1: I I just it's because I watched ambassador left it.
Speaker 1: I left it what I watched, you know what it is?
Speaker 1: My dad at one point worked for the United Nations
Speaker 1: refugee programs and he would be bringing bags of rice
Speaker 1: with the American flag on it and delivering that to
Speaker 1: refugee camps. I got to see watch American ambassador cut
Speaker 1: ribbon openings on health clinics and places like that, and
Speaker 1: I just, you know, the book is about it's a memoir,
Speaker 1: but it's also my sort of a love story to
Speaker 1: my country, to my nation, you know, And so no,
Speaker 1: I I still wanted to become a foreign service officer,
Speaker 1: so I finished my master started my PhD, and I
Speaker 1: was actually working for Rotary International helping Rotarians do humanitarian
Speaker 1: missions around the world. When um I was deployed to Iraq.
Speaker 1: You were there during some of the worst fighting, and
Speaker 1: you were, you know, in that terrible attack that resulted
Speaker 1: in the crash and your injury. When you were released
Speaker 1: from the hospital, what were thinking about in terms of
Speaker 1: the future that you and your husband wanted to build together. Well,
Speaker 1: during my recovery at the hospital, all I wanted to
Speaker 1: do was go back to my unit. Like I put
Speaker 1: every effort I had in trying to regain my flight status.
Speaker 1: You know, my whole life, my superpower had always spenned
Speaker 1: my willingness to work hard. I mean I was never
Speaker 1: the smartest kid in the class. You know, I got
Speaker 1: mostly a's and some beast but I was never the
Speaker 1: straight A student. I was never the one who would
Speaker 1: win the scholarship. For me, working hard was my superpower
Speaker 1: and I had to come to the realization at Walter
Speaker 1: Read that my superpower wasn't going to rescue me and
Speaker 1: get me back with my unit. And that was hard
Speaker 1: and at the time I had met Dick Durban and
Speaker 1: Barack Obama, and Dick Durbin actually was the one who
Speaker 1: gave me his number, his personal telephone number, and he
Speaker 1: said to Tammy, anybody have any problems, you call me.
Speaker 1: So I of course immediately abused the privilege and I
Speaker 1: started calling him because we had a lot of problems
Speaker 1: that well to read and this is something you also,
Speaker 1: because she were working this issue in the Senate too,
Speaker 1: and I was like, sir, like somebody is not getting paid, sir.
Speaker 1: The families are sleeping on the floor because there's no
Speaker 1: clean places for them. To say that isn't invested with Molde.
Speaker 1: And after about ten months of this, I mean, Dick
Speaker 1: Durbin essentially became the unofficial ombudsman for the patients at
Speaker 1: Walter Read So I was still a patient at the
Speaker 1: hospital undergoing surgeries when Dick Durban said, Tommy, I think
Speaker 1: you shoul think about running for Congress. You know, we
Speaker 1: need a voice that understands what our troops are going through.
Speaker 1: I remember being on the floor of the Senate as
Speaker 1: you do, waiting for votes and and just chatting when
Speaker 1: Dick Durban told me about you. I can remember it
Speaker 1: absolutely clearly. He said, I've met this amazing veteran, this
Speaker 1: woman who has had a really serious injury, lost her legs,
Speaker 1: but she's become the advocate for all the patients at
Speaker 1: Walter Read. I can remember saying that and him saying,
Speaker 1: and I'm trying to convince her to run for Compress.
Speaker 1: And I said, well, don't you think you got a
Speaker 1: let her? He first, Dick, I mean, come on, give her,
Speaker 1: give her a little bit of time. But how did
Speaker 1: that unfold in terms of Dick Durban spotting your talent,
Speaker 1: that incredible energy and can do spirit that you do have, Tammy,
Speaker 1: and making it his mission to persuade you to run
Speaker 1: for office. I think he just had really good timing
Speaker 1: because at that point I realized I couldn't get back
Speaker 1: to my unit, and I was lost. Right my whole
Speaker 1: adult life, my mission was to serve my country, either
Speaker 1: into foreign service or in the military and hopefully both
Speaker 1: and and I had no mission. And this is why
Speaker 1: we see so many of our troops fall into self
Speaker 1: medication and mental health issues and homelessness, that this downward
Speaker 1: spiral because they lose that mission, they lose their camaraderie,
Speaker 1: their buddies, and Dick durban came along and gave me
Speaker 1: a new mission and challenged me. My joke now when
Speaker 1: he talks about seeing me in the hospital and inviting
Speaker 1: me to run for Congress, and he asked me while
Speaker 1: I was still medicated, And that's my excuse. What did
Speaker 1: it for me was Dick Durbin saying, we have no
Speaker 1: one with that with your voice can talk about what
Speaker 1: our troops are going through. And so we said, what
Speaker 1: the heck? And did it? What year was this? Said Tammy.
Speaker 1: This was at the end of two thousand and five.
Speaker 1: But I lost, and um, but you put up a
Speaker 1: great fight. I did put up a grid and we
Speaker 1: won the majority that year in the House. But I
Speaker 1: wasn't part of it, and I was just devastated. I
Speaker 1: locked myself in my bathroom for three days and cry
Speaker 1: because I was the only place that I did not
Speaker 1: get self service. So I sat in my bathtub and
Speaker 1: cried for three days. And then I got the call
Speaker 1: offering me a position as the State of Illinois Director
Speaker 1: of Veterans Affairs on the Governor's cabinet. So you go
Speaker 1: to work for the state and then you decide to
Speaker 1: run again. Well, I go to work with the state,
Speaker 1: and we actually took Illinois from being in forty eight
Speaker 1: and the nation for veteran services to the top two
Speaker 1: in the nation for veteran services with a lot of
Speaker 1: innovative programs. But then I get asked by Barack Obama
Speaker 1: once he was elected to serve at the federal v A.
Speaker 1: And after about two years of that, I got really frustrated.
Speaker 1: It can happen, It can happen. I got really frustrated,
Speaker 1: which is a bureaucracy and all the things that I
Speaker 1: realized a lot of what I wanted to fix with
Speaker 1: legislative and that's what I decided to run for Congress again.
Speaker 1: And one I remember, and once you were in Congress,
Speaker 1: it became very clear that you know, you wanted to
Speaker 1: prove that you could be a member of Congress that
Speaker 1: would actually make life better for people. And you also
Speaker 1: were a staunch advocate for women's rights and roles for
Speaker 1: the rights and roles of minorities, for immigrants. You really
Speaker 1: carved out a reputation in the House, Tammy, and then
Speaker 1: you decided to run for the Senate. How did you
Speaker 1: decide that? You know that I was pretty happy in
Speaker 1: the House, I had been re elected, I've had my baby, Abigail,
Speaker 1: and I was on maternity leave when the talk started
Speaker 1: about the fact that Mark Kirk was up for re election,
Speaker 1: the Republican who had at one uh Barack Obama's old seat,
Speaker 1: and who would run and my name was in the mix.
Speaker 1: People kept calling me. I was like, folks on maternity leave,
Speaker 1: My god, let me have my time at my newborn.
Speaker 1: But Illinois primaries very early. It's in March, so you
Speaker 1: would have to declare by March of the previous year
Speaker 1: to really have a good run. So I'm on aternity leave. Finally,
Speaker 1: we decided that the opportunity to be in the Senate
Speaker 1: was that opportunity, or the train was leaving the station,
Speaker 1: and if I wanted to not get on that train,
Speaker 1: that's fine. I could just keep running for re election.
Speaker 1: But the idea of being in the Senate and being
Speaker 1: able to represent my entire state again, it was really
Speaker 1: what moved me to run. So I decided that, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is the time to do it, and we just
Speaker 1: took a deep breath and jumped. And it was miserable
Speaker 1: trying to be a mom of a newborn and run
Speaker 1: for a Senate and be a congresswoman was horrendous. I
Speaker 1: can't imagine, Tammy. I mean, I've done one at a time,
Speaker 1: but you were doing all three. But before we move on,
Speaker 1: I just want to say a word about your journey
Speaker 1: within fertility and IVF, because you're write about that. I
Speaker 1: do you know. I really appreciate your speaking out about
Speaker 1: your own experience. Thank you. I decided to put that
Speaker 1: in the book because I mean, I put my fertility
Speaker 1: on hold. My GUYD of college is said to me
Speaker 1: my VA gynecologists like when I talked to her when
Speaker 1: I was just turning forty and saying, I think we're
Speaker 1: going to try to have kids, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, you're you're towards the end of your time.
Speaker 1: But that's what we professional women do. We give up
Speaker 1: our fertility for our careers. But thank goodness, there are
Speaker 1: the ways that we can help you get pregnant. But
Speaker 1: the v A does not have fertility services, at least
Speaker 1: they didn't at the time. So she referred me to
Speaker 1: the Companion Hospital and I went to that fertility clinic
Speaker 1: and a very nice female doctor didn't even see me
Speaker 1: in a clinic. She came out and She sat with
Speaker 1: me in the waiting room and said, Honey, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be forty three soon. Your chances of getting pregnant, even
Speaker 1: with fertility services is less than five percent. You should
Speaker 1: just go home and enjoy your husband. And I believed her, though, yeah, right.
Speaker 1: And it wasn't until I was giving a speech at
Speaker 1: like professional women conferences and stuff as a congresswoman and
Speaker 1: the question got asked about how do you have work
Speaker 1: life balance, and I said, well, I don't have work
Speaker 1: life violence. I just worked because I'm going to be
Speaker 1: forty three now and I'm never gonna be able to
Speaker 1: have children as much as I wanted to. And a
Speaker 1: woman there came up to me and said, here's my doctor.
Speaker 1: You go see him. He's knocked up every professional woman
Speaker 1: in the Chicago area over the age of forty the
Speaker 1: Sisterhood networks. But this is why I put it in
Speaker 1: the book Hillary, because she was open with me, a
Speaker 1: total stranger. And then she called me like every month
Speaker 1: for six months until I finally went. And when I
Speaker 1: went to see that doctor, the fertility doctor at Northwestern
Speaker 1: University Hospital in Chicago, he said, who told you that
Speaker 1: you couldn't get pregnant? And I said who, And he goes, Oh,
Speaker 1: Catholic institution, I said, what, he goes. They don't believe
Speaker 1: in in vitro fertilization. So I for four years was
Speaker 1: a candidate for in vitro and I was told that
Speaker 1: I was not. I talked about this in a book
Speaker 1: about just how angry and betrayed I felt that a
Speaker 1: doctor she should have said to me, well, there are
Speaker 1: these other procedures, we can't perform them here because we're
Speaker 1: a Catholic institution, goes, you know, you should go somewhere else. No,
Speaker 1: she didn't even tell me about them. She just told me,
Speaker 1: there are no reproductive services that can work for you
Speaker 1: at forty two years old. You're gonna be forty three.
Speaker 1: Just go home and enjoy your husband. By the way,
Speaker 1: my husband loved that when I came home and told
Speaker 1: him the doctor told me to just enjoy my husband.
Speaker 1: And in eighteen months from the day that I saw
Speaker 1: my that Dr Confino at Northwestern, I was pregnant. Thank
Speaker 1: goodness that that woman came up to you at that
Speaker 1: event and told you to go get a second opinion.
Speaker 1: When you got into the Senate, you found that, you know,
Speaker 1: there were problems in the way that people were treated.
Speaker 1: There weren't changing stations and the women's bathrooms. I remember
Speaker 1: that very well, and I think you also advocated for
Speaker 1: changing stations in the men's bathrooms in case that where
Speaker 1: ever to be useful. We talked briefly about your second
Speaker 1: daughter and when you gave birth to her, in being
Speaker 1: coming the first Senator to give birth while in office,
Speaker 1: that was a huge landmark. And then to bring Miley
Speaker 1: to the floor of the Senate with you. And I
Speaker 1: don't know if this is true or not, but I
Speaker 1: read that, you know, there were some senators focused on
Speaker 1: the logistics, which is always you know, the refuge of
Speaker 1: those who want to say no, even asking about the
Speaker 1: baby's dress code. I mean, what was the baby going
Speaker 1: to be wearing on the floor of the Senate. So
Speaker 1: here you are, you have to take her with you
Speaker 1: because you're breastfeeding. Did you feel the sense of historic
Speaker 1: change that you add little Miley represented? I did not,
Speaker 1: to be honest, because I'm pregnant and I know you
Speaker 1: know I'm about you know, as I'm approaching my due date.
Speaker 1: I know the Democrats we needed every single vote, and
Speaker 1: I knew that I couldn't take family leave when I
Speaker 1: gave birth because the rules of the Senate are if
Speaker 1: you take leave, you can't introduce legislation and you can't vote.
Speaker 1: I just was just trying to figure out how I'm
Speaker 1: going to get to work when they won't let babies
Speaker 1: at my workplace. Um, and which is what every other
Speaker 1: working mom does, right, How am I going to go
Speaker 1: to work if they won't let me have the baby
Speaker 1: at my workplace and I have to go into work.
Speaker 1: But she's ten days old. I can't just leave her
Speaker 1: with someone. By the way, Herston Jila Brand went through
Speaker 1: this as well, but she could enter the Senate through
Speaker 1: the cloak room, but I can't because there are steps
Speaker 1: into it. So I had to change the rules. But
Speaker 1: you're right, yeah, oron hats was the one who wanted
Speaker 1: to know if the baby was going to wear a
Speaker 1: hat or no hat, and whether it was going to
Speaker 1: whether the baby was gonna have a blazer or like
Speaker 1: he was worried about the dress code. But I remember thinking,
Speaker 1: she's a baby, her head gets quote. They all wear beanies.
Speaker 1: I'm not taking her hat off just to go vote.
Speaker 1: But I did throw a blazer on her for the
Speaker 1: vote in her one season, We're taking a quick break.
Speaker 1: Stay with us. You know, I wanted to include you
Speaker 1: in this episode about gutsy women because you exemplify it,
Speaker 1: from adapting to your life first in Thailand than in America,
Speaker 1: to your military service, your recovery from a devastating injury,
Speaker 1: your groundbreaking work as a member of first the House
Speaker 1: and then the Senate, and your experiences as a working mom.
Speaker 1: I wonder, what do you see as the gutsiest thing
Speaker 1: you've ever had to do? Um? I think probably facing
Speaker 1: myself after a failure. I think coming out of that
Speaker 1: bathrooms six, climbing out of my tub in two thousand
Speaker 1: and six and going Okay, I gotta face the world
Speaker 1: and what else can I do. It's facing the loss
Speaker 1: of my mission, my identity as a helicopter pilot. I think,
Speaker 1: just like picking myself back up each time and putting
Speaker 1: one foot in front of the other. It's going from
Speaker 1: being a child of you know, of relative privilege growing
Speaker 1: up in Southeast Asia, um, you know, of an American dad,
Speaker 1: to being in Hawaiian another poverty and you know, being
Speaker 1: willing to go through the garbage to find you know, uh,
Speaker 1: struggling gears so I could go look for money on
Speaker 1: the beach. For me, the courage comes from getting back up.
Speaker 1: What's great about America is that we're not a country
Speaker 1: where we promise you that you'll never fail. We're a
Speaker 1: country that says, if you're on your knees and you're
Speaker 1: not willing to give up, then we're not going to
Speaker 1: give up on you either. That's the beauty of America.
Speaker 1: And I hope people see themselves in my book. I
Speaker 1: hope they see like the struggles and maybe their families
Speaker 1: went through when their dad lost a job at fifty
Speaker 1: like minded, I hope they see the struggle of like me,
Speaker 1: trying to do my job and be a mom and
Speaker 1: feeling miserable at both. When I'm with my job, I
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm being a terrible mother, and when
Speaker 1: I'm with my daughters, I feel like I'm letting the
Speaker 1: people at work down. Um. I hope they see themselves
Speaker 1: in the journey and know that it's okay. It's okay
Speaker 1: to struggle and just get back up. I think that
Speaker 1: is great advice. They might not be able quite to
Speaker 1: imagine doing everything you've done because you set a high
Speaker 1: bar for getting back up and keep going, but I
Speaker 1: think they will be inspired. You are an inspiration. I
Speaker 1: am delighted to have this chance to talk with you,
Speaker 1: and I just you know, wish you the very best,
Speaker 1: Senator Tammy Duckworth's and just all the best to you.
Speaker 1: Keep going. Thank you made I'm secretary my hero. Tammy
Speaker 1: Duckworth's book is called every Day Is a Gift. Not
Speaker 1: long after I spoke with Tammy, eight people, six of
Speaker 1: them Asian American women, were murdered in Atlanta, Georgia. Tammy
Speaker 1: has been outspoken in the wake of this terrible tragedy,
Speaker 1: so I asked her to join me again for a
Speaker 1: quick check in to hear what's on her mind right now.
Speaker 1: You know, after the horrific shootings in Atlanta on March sixteen,
Speaker 1: you were one of the very first political leaders to
Speaker 1: say that those shootings seemed racially motivated. Why was it
Speaker 1: important for you to speak out about it. Well, there
Speaker 1: are only two Asian women's senators from one thing, and
Speaker 1: they're not that many Asian Americans in leadership positions in
Speaker 1: this country, especially in high ranking government positions. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, having held a position like that, yourself being
Speaker 1: one of the you know, few of not only women.
Speaker 1: We've seen all the pictures where you're the only woman
Speaker 1: at the table, right, Um, it's so important. And so
Speaker 1: we'd seen a rise in anti Asian violence over this
Speaker 1: past year because of Donald Trump's rhetoric and those Republicans
Speaker 1: who chose to follow along with this leadership. In fact,
Speaker 1: over uh, you know, three thousand more hate crimes that
Speaker 1: were actually reported as hate crimes against Americans, a hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty increase in our major cities just this past year.
Speaker 1: And we know that hate crimes against Asians are very
Speaker 1: much underreported, which is why, when you know what happened
Speaker 1: Atlanta happened, I wanted to make sure that we put
Speaker 1: the marker down that this looks like a hate crime
Speaker 1: to me, especially since that police sergeant the first day
Speaker 1: he did was said that, you know, was to defend
Speaker 1: the shooters and he was having a bad day. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I get bad days all the time, but I don't
Speaker 1: go out and kill eight people, right. Well, I found
Speaker 1: that just unbelievable in every respect. And when we look
Speaker 1: at how crimes against Asian Americans have increased, as you
Speaker 1: say so dramatically, why do you think that the story
Speaker 1: of all these attacks, the physical attacks, the pushings, the beatings,
Speaker 1: the spitting, the coughing, you know, the vandalism on businesses.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it's taken so long for the
Speaker 1: press to cover this and for you know, this kind
Speaker 1: of terrible behavior to get the attention it deserves. I
Speaker 1: think the racism against a PI is a little bit different.
Speaker 1: It's got that whole model minority component to it, in
Speaker 1: that there's a sense that Asians are doing just fine.
Speaker 1: They're the doctors and the accountants and the scientists, and
Speaker 1: so they don't need extra health, they don't really face discrimination.
Speaker 1: And it also the hate crimes in the past year
Speaker 1: that those statistics that I mentioned, two thirds of those
Speaker 1: were against Asian women, and um Asian women are you know,
Speaker 1: unfortunately stereotypist, meek and submissive and also hyper sexualized and
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, there's this whole they got what
Speaker 1: they're coming to them because they were working on a massage.
Speaker 1: You know, they were giving massage, is that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: So I do think that there's sort of several things
Speaker 1: going on at once, and Asians have been this other category.
Speaker 1: Asians were actually in tournament camps in the United States
Speaker 1: any other way. It also is somewhat frustrating to me,
Speaker 1: and I've spoken out about this for a year, that
Speaker 1: there's not enough attention paid to the fact that two
Speaker 1: million of our essential workers are Asian Americans and they've
Speaker 1: been disproportionately affected by COVID. Nearly one third of the
Speaker 1: nurses who have died from COVID nineteen were Filipino Americans,
Speaker 1: even though they make up just four percent of our nurses.
Speaker 1: And so part of the challenges, you know, expanding the presses,
Speaker 1: understanding of what a story is, and trying to cover
Speaker 1: what are very important activities and the consequences in the
Speaker 1: community at large. Well, that's exactly, and I don't think
Speaker 1: people connected the dots, and this is where we need,
Speaker 1: you know, voices like yours and voices in the media
Speaker 1: to connect the dots and say you can't call it
Speaker 1: the Chinese virus. In fact, most of the cases in
Speaker 1: the United States came from Italy. So it is just
Speaker 1: a way to divide us, something Donald Trump was doing
Speaker 1: to cover himself for the fact that he wasn't handling
Speaker 1: this absolutely blame and Asian Americans are a frequent skipgoat
Speaker 1: throughout our nation's history. But one thing, Well, finally, Tammy,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask, you know, as an Asian American woman,
Speaker 1: as a mom, have you and your family experienced any
Speaker 1: anti Asian bigotry this past year? My mother has My
Speaker 1: mom is seventy nine, and Stuart drives and goes shopping
Speaker 1: by herself, and that does all of that. But she's
Speaker 1: come home from being at the grocery store where people
Speaker 1: have said things to her, literally pushing her out of
Speaker 1: the way, or you know, I think she said something like,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody pushed out of the way the supermarket
Speaker 1: said I don't want to catch your Chinese virus. You know,
Speaker 1: Oh boy, that's sort of thing. Um, I'm much more visible,
Speaker 1: so I don't get as much. I mean, I experienced
Speaker 1: the racism. I mean I've been asked where are you
Speaker 1: from while we're in uniform with this country? With her
Speaker 1: flat on my computer point the I showed it right here. Well,
Speaker 1: I just want to thank you for your leadership once again.
Speaker 1: You have, you know, just moved right to the forefront.
Speaker 1: And I appreciate your not only raising these issues but
Speaker 1: demanding action. You know, everybody needs to be you know,
Speaker 1: paying much closer attention to what's happening in the Asian
Speaker 1: American community. Is there anything you want to add before
Speaker 1: we wrap up, Well, just thank you for for you know,
Speaker 1: coming back and covering this. I think those of us
Speaker 1: who are privileged to be able to have a soapbox
Speaker 1: to stand on, we have to sort of exercise that
Speaker 1: privilege in a way you know that recognized the responsibility
Speaker 1: that comes with it. And sometimes it's speaking hard truths
Speaker 1: to people and and talking about things and people are like, oh, no,
Speaker 1: you know, we're not gonna pay attention that I've got
Speaker 1: other things to worry about. Was no, this is important. Well,
Speaker 1: one thing I never worry about is you speaking truth
Speaker 1: to power, my friend, and keep it up, keep going.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. To learn more about what you
Speaker 1: can do, please check out stop a a p I
Speaker 1: hate dot org and to the a p I community.
Speaker 1: Let me just say, you do not deserve to live
Speaker 1: in fear for your safety or your families. You are
Speaker 1: a vital part of this country and millions of people
Speaker 1: are grieving with you and standing with you. You and
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