1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, wasn't a stuff about your mind? 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Julie Douglas. I 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:20,119 Speaker 1: was I was just about to say, what comes to 5 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: mind when I say the word man eater? Oh? Comes, 6 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: she's mad? H Now? Was she actually a man eater? 7 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:33,319 Speaker 1: Was she out of control cannibal in that? Because that's 8 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: got kind of the vibe. I hear that song on 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: a picture kind of like Miami Vice type situation where 10 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 1: they're hunting down this woman who is on the loose 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: and killing and eating men and kind of like a 12 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: black widow cannibal fashion, and only two men hall and 13 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: Oates one mustache can bring her down exactly detectives Holland 14 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 1: Oates on the case. I think it was more like 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:58,800 Speaker 1: she's a gold digger, She's going to run through all 16 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: the men. But we could take the whole the skew 17 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: on it that she was a flesh eating woman rampaging 18 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: around the social circles of humans. Okay, all right, I 19 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: like that interpretation. Now, for anyone who's thinking about turning 20 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: off the podcast right now, let me assure you this 21 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: is primarily not an episode about cannibals. This is this 22 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: is when we when we say man eater, we're bringing 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: to mind the the jungle man eater, the uh, the 24 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 1: idea that there you have animals out there that may 25 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: turn man eater or animals that are in and of 26 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: themselves man eaters. Uh. And it's a it's a term 27 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:39,480 Speaker 1: that carries a lot of weight because as humans, we 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: generally like to think that we are in a safe area, 29 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,560 Speaker 1: that we have not only reached the top of a 30 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:48,360 Speaker 1: food chain, but we have removed ourselves from the food 31 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: chain entirely. We've we've achieved liberation from from that particular structure. Yeah, 32 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: we've talked about this before. Louis c. K has a 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 1: bit about how humans really take for granted the fact 34 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 1: that we are out of the food chain. But as 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: we read in the listener emails last week, there's one 36 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: person who dared to ask the question, could you have 37 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 1: a sudden blood luss when it comes to humans? Could 38 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: you get a taste of it and want more? Yeah? 39 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: And and to what extent is that just sort of 40 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, human self obsession to think that we just 41 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: were so tasty, like we're we're off the menu item. 42 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: And we are so delicious that if that if a 43 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 1: tiger or a lion, or a chimpanzee or any kind 44 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:32,519 Speaker 1: of creature that dabbles and meat eating at all or 45 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:35,119 Speaker 1: to get a taste of us, then there's no way 46 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 1: they could go back. They would just have to be 47 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 1: man meat all the time. Cut it up for me, 48 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: put it on my plate. That's all I'm gonna eat 49 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,079 Speaker 1: until you take me down inhala bullets. Wow, So you're saying, 50 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 1: could there be some sort of sea change that all 51 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: of a sudden put us on the menu. In other words, 52 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: these animals wouldn't go into their restaurant and have some 53 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: sort of code word in order to bring this delicacy 54 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,920 Speaker 1: of humans about all of a sudden, We would just 55 00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 1: be on the menu all the time. We would be 56 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: the other white meat. Yeah, I mean. And as we're 57 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: gonna discuss here, there are situations where something does occur, 58 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,600 Speaker 1: or or a few different things occur that that seemed 59 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: to flip a switch in a predator that make it 60 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 1: go from from just it's normal dietary practices to becoming 61 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: a man eater to to preying on humans um exclusively. 62 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: But to what extent is it a thing? To what 63 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,720 Speaker 1: extent is it us over reacting because because man eating 64 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: is uh, it's such an a loaded idea because it 65 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 1: just digs into our primal fears and into this, uh, 66 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:35,520 Speaker 1: this situation of prey and predator that we again largely 67 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: like to think that we have achieved liberation from that. 68 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 1: We're you know, we're able to distance ourselves from predators, 69 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: were able to protect ourselves, and we're generally really smart prey. 70 00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: We're generally not a good prey and mostly mostly um. 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: But but genuinely speaking, we're an intelligent, large creature that 72 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 1: that's not worth the effort of hunting. But if we 73 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: are in the wrong place at the wrong time, all 74 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:05,240 Speaker 1: of a sudden, it becomes a very precarious event for us. Yes, 75 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 1: so we should probably kick off by talking about shameless 76 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: man eaters. And I think that the best example of 77 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: shameless man eaters are the nile crocodiles crocodia. Yes, you guys, 78 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 1: these guys, if we if we had like our ring 79 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: here in the right corner, you'd have a nile crocodile 80 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: wing and sometimes as large as sixteen hundred pounds in 81 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: twenty ft long. Now for for everybody that resides outside 82 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:34,360 Speaker 1: of the United States. I'm talking about seven dred and 83 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 1: thirty kilograms and six meters long. Yeah, and these and 84 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: basically sub Saharan Africa is just lousy with these things. 85 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: They're they're they're everywhere and uh, and they are indiscriminate 86 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 1: in their diet. So so there's not a situation of, 87 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: oh that that crocodile, that that nile crocodile went man eater, 88 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,120 Speaker 1: it developed a taste for human blood. No, the crocodile 89 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: is game for whatever it can get its jaws round. 90 00:04:57,400 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: And since human beings often live in for close proximity 91 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: with these creatures because because the river is their habitat 92 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: and the river is light, if you are somehow hacking 93 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: out an existence for yourself, then you are depending on 94 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,679 Speaker 1: the river for water, for food, for laundry, two children 95 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: play in the water, etcetera. That the chance is going 96 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: to come up for a crocodile to snack on a human. 97 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: And it's it's hard to put an exact number on this, 98 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,159 Speaker 1: but it's estimated that upwards of two people may die 99 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 1: each year from nile crocodile attacks. Yeah, so imagine yourself 100 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 1: at the Nile River at the banks, you're washing your 101 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: clothes and all of a sudden you are pitted against 102 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: this animal that is camouflaging itself in the water effortlessly, 103 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: just waiting right up to you, undetected. And they have 104 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:47,719 Speaker 1: these incredibly fast reflexes, and you know, surprise attacks are 105 00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,280 Speaker 1: their purview, So you really don't have a chance in 106 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 1: one of those situations. And you can see why just 107 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: in this sub Saharan Africa and and the Nile that 108 00:05:56,839 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: something up to two hundred deaths a year occur because 109 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 1: of these crocs. Now that humans and crocodiles ever live 110 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: in harmony, I mean this is not an animal that 111 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: it is just overflowing with intelligence and uh and social 112 00:06:10,560 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: adaptability with with with non crocodile species. Yeah. Actually, um, 113 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: if you look at the case of one place in 114 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,839 Speaker 1: western Africa, it's called Bazul, where one hundred Nile crocs 115 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: reside along with humans and what I would say is 116 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 1: relative harmony. You can see that this community regards Nile 117 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: crocs as sacred and they think of these crocs is 118 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: is having a link to survival and welfare in the seasons, right, 119 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:45,039 Speaker 1: so they routinely sacrifice chickens to these crocodiles. So in 120 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:47,799 Speaker 1: a way, it's a kind of a domestication, right because 121 00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: they're they're giving them an animal, and they're keeping them 122 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:52,840 Speaker 1: fat enough and full enough that they're not going to 123 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,000 Speaker 1: be tempted as often by that that human snack that's 124 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: washing it's it's clothes in the water. Yeah, and this 125 00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: has been going on since the fourteen century. So um 126 00:07:01,680 --> 00:07:05,479 Speaker 1: in some cases, as we'll discuss later on, with other animals, 127 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: there's this possibility that not only this act going on 128 00:07:08,880 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: is sort of routinizing it for the crocs, but maybe 129 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 1: it's a learned behavior through generations of these crocs, you know, 130 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: because that what instantly ticks off of my mind when 131 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,119 Speaker 1: I think about that is I think about the alligators 132 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: here in the United States, And what do they always 133 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: tell you about alligators. Do not feed the alligators because 134 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: with other wild animals, you start feeding them, they start 135 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: associating a human presence with food, which is generally not 136 00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: a good idea because again, one of the reasons that 137 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 1: humans are so good at largely avoiding uh consumption by 138 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:43,680 Speaker 1: a predator is that we keep our distance from them. 139 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: We know not to go and mess with the bears, 140 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: and the bears by and large don't want to mess 141 00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: with the humans. But when you start confusing the equation 142 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: by having a gift of sacrificed chicken or a delicious 143 00:07:56,720 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: garbage can involved, then it starts bringing these two species 144 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 1: closer and closer. And they're both very dangerous species in 145 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 1: their own way, so when they meet, uh it, it 146 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: might not be pretty. And the thing is though, in 147 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: in this area of western Africa, you may not have 148 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: the choice to keep your distance, so your water source 149 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: is probably going to be the same as these crocs, 150 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: So it would make sense that you would create this 151 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: sort of symbiotic relationship with a croc. Now, I don't 152 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 1: suggest that everybody hearing I didn't go out and start 153 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 1: doing that, because you know, by and large we have 154 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: the ability to keep our distance. But yeah, this, this 155 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 1: is what you see when when two species are or 156 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: cohabitating in the space on a very intimate terms, all right, now, 157 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,120 Speaker 1: when it comes to killing and eating humans, uh, there 158 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:49,440 Speaker 1: is one type of human that is clearly the best snack, 159 00:08:49,520 --> 00:08:53,520 Speaker 1: the best meal, and that is the child. Uh. Children 160 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 1: are of course smaller humans. They are largely uh stupid 161 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 1: er humans. When it comes to surviving on their own, 162 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 1: and they don't have as much experience they you know, 163 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: they're not gonna really be able to punch a bear 164 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: in the nose. They're they're slower, they're easily distracted. Firstance, 165 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: I took my son out on the belt line today, 166 00:09:13,120 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 1: which is this like running walking bicycling strip here in Atlanta, 167 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: formerly a train track, A really nice environment, but it 168 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: was hard to get him to walk uh ten feet 169 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,320 Speaker 1: without stopping to stick to poke sticks through the fence 170 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:30,319 Speaker 1: to try and pick up dog crap or two. And 171 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,080 Speaker 1: then occasionally he would see somebody running and run himself. 172 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: Now there were no tigers or bears or coyotes or 173 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 1: wolves or anything like that on the belt line, but 174 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: if there were, they would have easily seen. This is 175 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 1: the kid. We're gonna try and eat these large adult runners. 176 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: And they're too fast, they're too wary. Some of them 177 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 1: are on bicycles. I'm not messing with that. But this guy, 178 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,800 Speaker 1: he is short, he is stubby, and he keeps stopping 179 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: to mess with things could eat him up in a heartbeat. 180 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,160 Speaker 1: Like I like to joke to my wife that if 181 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: he were out in the wild, even like squirrels would say, hey, 182 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,480 Speaker 1: I could eat that guy, Maybe I should get a 183 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: taste in here. All of a sudden, you have like 184 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 1: twenty squirrels marching towards your son exactly. I mean, you know, 185 00:10:08,920 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: the economic value of eating um a toddler is just 186 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 1: it should be obvious to anything in the animal kingdom, 187 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 1: and a number of predators do pick up on that. Yeah, 188 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: And I think that's why we have so many fairy 189 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: tales that are these cautionary tales really for children, especially 190 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: when it comes to wolves, right, yeah, I mean just 191 00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:31,280 Speaker 1: think of the wolf in nursery stories. Uh and and 192 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,120 Speaker 1: in myths as well. But a little red riding hood. 193 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: You know, she's just minding her own business and this 194 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: wolf is going to eat her in the woods. It 195 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: also goes after her elderly grandmother as well. Uh and 196 00:10:41,720 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: and then there are other stories like this three Pigs. 197 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it just it just goes on and on. 198 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 1: We just have this this cultural idea of the wolf 199 00:10:49,160 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 1: as this predator that's roaming out on the edges of 200 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 1: our human world and is going to be eager to 201 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: creep in and steal our children or even eat us. 202 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: I mean, look look at some of the films we 203 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: have of out there in which the wolf plays a 204 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 1: very nefarious role. There's the the Liam Neeson movie The Gray, 205 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:09,880 Speaker 1: about Liam Neeson punching a bunch of wolves as they 206 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 1: try to eat him. So culturally it is woven in 207 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: our fabric. We are frightened of wolves. They are the Boogeyman. 208 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 1: So imagine you live in Reserve, New Mexico. Okay, I 209 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 1: just imagine you're here in New Mexico and your child 210 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: is waiting for the bus, but instead of throwing rocks 211 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: or playing chase, the children are huddled in wood and 212 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,600 Speaker 1: mesh cages meant to keep them safe from any wayward 213 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: wolves that happened by this is just such a fantastic story. 214 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 1: I mean, especially once you start getting the details. And uh, 215 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 1: in in this case, we got the details from the 216 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,160 Speaker 1: article do kid cages really predict children from wolves? By 217 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: Jeremy Berlin and he and he talks to an expert 218 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 1: on wolves. He specifically, he talks to Daniel McNulty, a 219 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,520 Speaker 1: wildlife ecology professor at Utah State University. Uh, this is 220 00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: a guy who's been studying wolves in the Alsto National 221 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: Park for past eighteen years and he askin said wolves 222 00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:10,400 Speaker 1: eating children at bus stops. Is this really a threat? 223 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,839 Speaker 1: And he says, of course, it's not a threat, like 224 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,000 Speaker 1: there are so few examples of wolves attacking humans in 225 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: the wild. For starters, Yeah, he says, a child in 226 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:22,199 Speaker 1: a rural area is more likely to be hurt or 227 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: killed in an accident with an off road altering vehicle 228 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,559 Speaker 1: or in a with an encounter with a feral dog 229 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: or hunting accident. And there are very few instances in 230 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: North America have wolves hurting anyone, let alone children. And 231 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: the reason why people are up in arms in this 232 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,960 Speaker 1: area is because in smaller subspecies of the gray wolf 233 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,240 Speaker 1: called the Mexican wolf was reintroduced in the area. It's 234 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: a protected species. And so on one hand you have 235 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: you have governmental bodies saying, don't hurt the wolves. They are, 236 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:57,400 Speaker 1: they're endangered, they're protected, leave them alone. But on the 237 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: other hand, we have this primal or almost i'm all 238 00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: fear of the wolf. We have certainly had experiences of 239 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: wolves praying on livestock and beloved pets, and so you 240 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: have you have this tug of war here and also 241 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: probably a little bit of political manipulation as well, where 242 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: people are saying, Oh, well, if you're gonna protect the 243 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: wolf and we can't shoot the wolves, then I guess 244 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: we'll have to put our children in shark cages at 245 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 1: the bus stop exactly, because otherwise the wolves would just 246 00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: sweep in and just eat all of them every morning. Yeah. 247 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 1: McNulty said that he thought that this was probably a 248 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:32,679 Speaker 1: publicity stunt by people who felt like their rights were 249 00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,480 Speaker 1: being infringed on upon the government, particularly since the e 250 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: p A was had something out there to actually have 251 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: tighter restrictions here on the Mexican wolf. So again, the 252 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:45,959 Speaker 1: idea is that there may be some groups that are 253 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 1: fueling this fear, which is sort of an ancient fear 254 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: ingrained in us against wolves. Well, let me ask you this. 255 00:13:52,679 --> 00:13:54,560 Speaker 1: You have you have, you have a daughter. Can you 256 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: imagine taking your daughter to a bus stop to to 257 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,360 Speaker 1: await the school bus since telling her, listen, honey, everything 258 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: is gonna be okay today. However, we're gonna have to 259 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: put you in a cage as you wait for the 260 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,760 Speaker 1: bus because wolves may come for you and try to 261 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: eat you. No, I can't. I can't imagine like putting 262 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,679 Speaker 1: her into what amounts as a chicken coop really if 263 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:18,560 Speaker 1: you look at these structures and telling her that there's 264 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: this this fear that she should, you know, really be 265 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: keyed into. I mean, can you imagine what that's doing 266 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 1: to a kid's psyche. That's it's just not healthy. I mean. 267 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: And and also it again, it fosters this idea that 268 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 1: the wolf is a threat that needs to be eradicated, 269 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 1: when in reality, if you encounter wolves in the wild, 270 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 1: it's generally going to be a very a very calm situation. 271 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: They're gonna see you, they're gonna take off because you're 272 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 1: just not a prey animal to them. Yeah, McNulty says. 273 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,560 Speaker 1: They don't have supernatural powers. They can't jump over mountain ranges, 274 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 1: they can't bring down a moose with a single bite 275 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,640 Speaker 1: to the neck um. They are constrained by their morphology, right, 276 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,280 Speaker 1: So they're going to go after something that is mall. 277 00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: They're going to go after a rabbit or something that 278 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: is easy prey. They are generally frightened of humans. So 279 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: to sum it all up, yes, it's there's a small, 280 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 1: small chance that wolves would prey on a human child, 281 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:17,600 Speaker 1: but but generally it's not something to worry about. Certainly, 282 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: nothing to worry about at the bus stop. Um. But 283 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:22,760 Speaker 1: of course the child would be an irresistible meal to 284 00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: uh to any number of other predators, uh, interestingly enough, 285 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: including the champ to the chimpanzee, which I found horrifying. Yeah. Well, 286 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:34,200 Speaker 1: and I think that's because you know, when you think 287 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 1: about chimps, you think of them as these playful creatures, 288 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,920 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, even when you hear accounts of 289 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: them killing each other, it's disturbing when when they start 290 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,440 Speaker 1: eating other primates, which they do, yes, or rather monkeys, 291 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 1: that's that's when it starts getting a little weird for 292 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: the human observer. But certainly they eat a lot of meat, 293 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: I believe, if I remember correctly, the chimpanzee is only 294 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:01,800 Speaker 1: surpassed in its meat consumption by human beings when compared 295 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:05,480 Speaker 1: to other other species. So we can't so we can't 296 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:07,440 Speaker 1: really judge. I think it's what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, 297 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: I mean we we have. We get kind of weird 298 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: about eating things that look too much like us for 299 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,120 Speaker 1: the most part. But but they have no such qualms. 300 00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 1: And a lot of this is about context, right, So 301 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: what sort of food sources are available, what else is 302 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: going on in the ecosystem, and we're going to discuss 303 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: a little bit more about this some other species that 304 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,600 Speaker 1: we should really keep more worried about when it comes 305 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: to man eating. Right after we cutis great, all right, 306 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: we're back lions and tigers and bears. Oh my, Yes, 307 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: particularly lions and tigers. These are the big cats are 308 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 1: among the best examples of of man eaters that we 309 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: can you can really focus in on, and particularly when 310 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: you're looking at the situation of an animal turning man 311 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: eater and try and and just trying to to figure 312 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: out what is that, what is happening at that pivotal 313 00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: moment when this animal changes from something that lives outside 314 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 1: of the human scope to a creature that is praying 315 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: exclusively on humans. Yeah, and before we talk about some 316 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,280 Speaker 1: of the circumstances that would drive man eating and lions, 317 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 1: let's just discuss really quickly that the population of African 318 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: lions is in decline while the human population, of course 319 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: is on the rise. You have to factor in the 320 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 1: loss of habitat and human encroachment, and then you begin 321 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: to see this picture emerging of how humans and lions 322 00:17:36,359 --> 00:17:40,120 Speaker 1: are meeting far more than they ever did in history. 323 00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,439 Speaker 1: And of course attacks are on the rise. Yeah, and 324 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: now there's some of some very key examples of man 325 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 1: eating lions throughout history, and all of this certainly stokes 326 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 1: the fires of our fear and our in our fascination 327 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,760 Speaker 1: with the idea of the man eating lion, but particularly 328 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:03,480 Speaker 1: the situation in evolving two lions named ghost in Darkness. Um, 329 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:08,480 Speaker 1: they unleash this harrowing string of attacks on Ugandan railroad workers. 330 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 1: Uh and uh. If you look at the older accounts 331 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 1: of the Savo lions, they were saying that the lions 332 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,040 Speaker 1: flew something like a hundred and thirty five African and 333 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 1: Indian railroad labors and sometimes dragging them from their tents 334 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 1: while they slept. And you know, it all ends up 335 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,760 Speaker 1: escalating in the in the hunters having to go out 336 00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:28,640 Speaker 1: and set in search of them. If you've ever seen 337 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: the movie The Ghosts in the Darkness that has a 338 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 1: fictionalized account of this situation. But here's the thing. These 339 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: lines are currently on view underneath the St. Louis Gateway Arch. 340 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:42,840 Speaker 1: If you go to the Gateway Arch and you go 341 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 1: into the museum underneath it, you will see these lines 342 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:49,919 Speaker 1: and they are surprisingly small. Um, you see them, and 343 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:51,600 Speaker 1: you have you if you hear the story, you expect 344 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 1: the giant lions that are just dripping with human blood, 345 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: and they're there are a lot smaller specimens in your life. 346 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,760 Speaker 1: So are these vampire lions that are existing to the centuries? No? 347 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:03,359 Speaker 1: No, no no, these are the actual lions were killed and 348 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 1: stuffed and wound up in St. Louis, Okay. And it 349 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: turns out, by the way that these lions actually did 350 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,520 Speaker 1: the lives of thirty five people that you know, hundred 351 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,440 Speaker 1: plus people. Uh. Still is nothing to sneeze at. Now 352 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 1: this isn't the only story. There are various other accounts 353 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 1: and um, and you know, I could, I could go 354 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: into listing each of them connt by account, but they 355 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:27,199 Speaker 1: all basically amount to the same thing. Suddenly a lion 356 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 1: or even a group of lions begin praying on humans 357 00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 1: and then they don't stop until those lions are themselves 358 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: put down. Um. There are a number of reasons for 359 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: why this happens. One of the reasons is it could 360 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: be passed down behavior. Yes, and there's a study of 361 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:48,359 Speaker 1: the subbo lions actually uh from the Chicago's Field Museum 362 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: that discovered that generations of the same pride exhibited similar 363 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: human eating tendencies. So the same pride had a higher 364 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,840 Speaker 1: incidence of man eating. So that's and the idea here. 365 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:06,199 Speaker 1: But of course there's lots of different competing circumstances and reasons, right, 366 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,360 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the big ones is altered habitat 367 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: induced prey switching. Now, this is a situation, uh that 368 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 1: they should make a lot of sense, especially in light 369 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:18,280 Speaker 1: of of the reality of growing human populations and uh 370 00:20:18,280 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 1: and at times shrinking uh prey populations in an area. 371 00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,560 Speaker 1: What ends up happening is you have alliance and they've 372 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,040 Speaker 1: they've lived in this area for generations and generations and generations. 373 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 1: They've always prayed exclusively on this particular population of animals, 374 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 1: and suddenly that prey population is affected by this human presence. 375 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: Suddenly there's less for them to eat. What are they 376 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: supposed to do? They're gonna do whatever they have to 377 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: do to survive there. So they end up switching their 378 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,760 Speaker 1: prey preference. They realize they can't uh you know, get 379 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: this traditional uh you know, dear like gazelle like animal 380 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: or whatever that they prey on. What are they going 381 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: to turn to? Well, here are all these humans in 382 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,440 Speaker 1: their areas. So they end up making the switch, and 383 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,680 Speaker 1: there may be a sational things that end up um 384 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,680 Speaker 1: affecting that switch. For instance, what happens then if lions, uh, 385 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: these same lions who are trying to figure out what 386 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:09,680 Speaker 1: they're gonna eat, what kind of prey they're going to 387 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,200 Speaker 1: consist on? What happens when they come across the body 388 00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 1: of a dead human or or or even you know, 389 00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: a destigated grave of some kind, they end up trying 390 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: the human flesh. It's just another argument in their favor 391 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 1: of oh, well, these creatures seem to be uh as 392 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: delicious as anything else I could eat and uh, and 393 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 1: then then they seem to be everywhere, and then you 394 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: end up with the eventual situation where they actually prey 395 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: on a human, and in that they may learn, oh 396 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 1: well they're not that difficult to kill either. Well. Yeah, 397 00:21:41,160 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: it really plays into the whole uh survival game that 398 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: we've talked about before. You tried to conserve as much 399 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 1: energy as possible and get as much energy as possible, right, 400 00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: And so if if a human presents him or herself 401 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,480 Speaker 1: as easy prey, either you know, just something that you 402 00:21:56,480 --> 00:22:00,280 Speaker 1: stumbled upon them that's a dead body, or just is 403 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:02,879 Speaker 1: a smaller human being that's easy to take down. Well, 404 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: there you go. You can conserve your energy and get 405 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: a quick meal out of it at the same time. 406 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: And another situation with lions that can lead to this 407 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: man hunter button getting you know, ticked off in their 408 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: brain is uh is when you have an old or 409 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,359 Speaker 1: an injured lion. So it's very similar to the altered 410 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 1: habitat induce prey switching situation. So like suddenly they've gone 411 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,959 Speaker 1: from this life where they're they're praying exclusively on this 412 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,959 Speaker 1: animal or this group of animals, and now they can't 413 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,840 Speaker 1: because they're getting old. Maybe they can't they can't run 414 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: down their prey like they used to, or they're having 415 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,600 Speaker 1: problems with their teeth, they can't. They can't necessarily kill 416 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: and chew like they used to. Yeah, I mean you 417 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:41,240 Speaker 1: think about when you go to the dentist and you 418 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 1: have a tooth apsessor, you have dental work done, you 419 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: don't go home and eat like a chicken thigh. You 420 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: probably eat some mac and cheese. Right. Yeah, Well, we've 421 00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: talked about the advantages of human cooking before, and you 422 00:22:50,840 --> 00:22:54,280 Speaker 1: know what a what an enormous technological achievement that was 423 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:56,959 Speaker 1: for our species. One of the achievements there is that 424 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,480 Speaker 1: Suddenly it means that if you don't have teeth to 425 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:03,199 Speaker 1: chew your food anymore, that there is a way, you know, 426 00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: you can you can cook things down, and in addition 427 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:08,840 Speaker 1: to that, you can also chop things up, and in 428 00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: doing so, bad teeth is not a death sentence anymore. Yeah, 429 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: and so if you think about humans versus say, zebras, 430 00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 1: then all of a sudden, humans on the menu look 431 00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: a lot more like mac and cheese to an animal 432 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:23,680 Speaker 1: with really bad teeth. You don't. We don't have tough 433 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: hides to tear through, right, So you know, that's that's 434 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,520 Speaker 1: another idea of where you have a circumstance where humans 435 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: might be the better choice here the other white meat. 436 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,440 Speaker 1: But of course, there is not one overriding theory here 437 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: about why lions in particular go after humans from time 438 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: to time. Um. Actually, History Stuff has a really great 439 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:52,440 Speaker 1: discussion of the Savo lions. It's a December sixteen episodes, 440 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,080 Speaker 1: So if you guys want to learn more about that 441 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 1: specific instance, check that out. Because there's no there's there's 442 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: not really one reason that people can out along for 443 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: for why this happens. Yeah, If anything, it seems like, 444 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,000 Speaker 1: there are probably a few different a few different of 445 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: these factors are playing in to to any given man 446 00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,480 Speaker 1: hunter situation, but it does seem to be the trend 447 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: that once that want that, once that little switch is 448 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: flipped over in the brain, Uh, they tend to go 449 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: for the human flesh. But then, but then part of 450 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,600 Speaker 1: that too is that is that we have such a 451 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: stigma about man eaters and such a fear of it, 452 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 1: and then we have this idea in our head that, 453 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: oh that that that line has become man eater, it 454 00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: must be put down. Uh. So you know that that 455 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: that The answer then is in kind of in the 456 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:39,400 Speaker 1: question there. Well, right now today there's actually a news 457 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: item that in your India there is a man hunt 458 00:24:43,359 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 1: right now for a tigress that is going on. This 459 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,360 Speaker 1: is a tigress who reportedly has taken nine human lives 460 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: in the last forty five days, and so you have 461 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: really this frenzy uh going on to to take this 462 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: one tiger down. Yeah. Ti beers are definitely another big 463 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,240 Speaker 1: area of where we see the man eater of effect 464 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,600 Speaker 1: coming in into practice and and generally speaking the same 465 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:13,000 Speaker 1: reasons a plot, but with the added caveat that sometimes 466 00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: you have. There is a theory that mistaken identity plays 467 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,920 Speaker 1: a role as well. They have been tests that have 468 00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: shown that a tiger will stalk a group of people 469 00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: bending over to cut grass, and it possibly the angle 470 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 1: of the person, you know, the fact that they seem 471 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 1: like they're smaller and more compact. That may mean that 472 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: the tiger is misinterpreting what kind of animal they are. 473 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: I see. So with the genes that I have that 474 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 1: have like a little gazelle face on the foot, I 475 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,320 Speaker 1: should stop wearing those out in the wild. Well, well, 476 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, if it has the face on it, 477 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:47,560 Speaker 1: maybe you'd be okay, because remember people with the masks 478 00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 1: in the back of their head, so that the tiger, 479 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:52,879 Speaker 1: you know, doesn't think that it's sneaking up on you. 480 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:55,959 Speaker 1: That's right, because the idea here is that with a tiger, 481 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,239 Speaker 1: or we've talked about this with bears too, is that 482 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,680 Speaker 1: certain types of bears that you don't want to appear 483 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: as though you are overly excited or you are a 484 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,120 Speaker 1: prey that would be frightened of this animal and start 485 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,280 Speaker 1: running and flailing about. And if you have this mask on, 486 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,439 Speaker 1: it makes it look as though you are not actually 487 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: retreating from the animal. It's interesting the emaion fleeing because 488 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: I've also read accounts where you have areas in India 489 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: where they don't really have a problem with tigers attacking 490 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:27,520 Speaker 1: people unless they're on bicycles. Something about the speed with 491 00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,560 Speaker 1: which the human is moving may click something off and 492 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: the tigers said, they think, oh, well, that's that's prey 493 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 1: fleeing from me. I should run it down. That just 494 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:39,800 Speaker 1: happens in my neighborhood with dogs. Now again, think back 495 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,439 Speaker 1: to those reasons we listed for lions, and you can 496 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: pretty much apply all of those t tigers as well. 497 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,280 Speaker 1: There's an estimated sevent tigers left in the wild in India. Meanwhile, 498 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: the human population in India is is over one point 499 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: to three seven billion people. So again you have you 500 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 1: have these wild tigers and they're inevitably going to run 501 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,560 Speaker 1: into people and sometimes it's just gonna it's gonna basically 502 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: be accident. What happens when when when a tiger just 503 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,679 Speaker 1: happens across a human. It might be an old tiger 504 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: it's forced out of it's the previous area, a young 505 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 1: tiger that's off it's out in search of its of 506 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: an area to call its own. And and indeed, those 507 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 1: are the two types of tigers that typically wind up 508 00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 1: in these violent altercations, the young tigers and the very 509 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,760 Speaker 1: old tigers. Yeah, and if you look at this current 510 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:28,119 Speaker 1: case in Pichnore, India, that you do see habitat loss 511 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,159 Speaker 1: playing into this idea that it is the meeting season 512 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: right now in the winter. And what happens is that 513 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: you have older tiger says that are moving along the 514 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: younger I think that when they turned three years old. Uh, 515 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: the younger female tiger says, out of the pride and saying, 516 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: go off on your own and create your own. So 517 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:51,399 Speaker 1: that's creating more stray tigers out there in the wilderness 518 00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 1: who are coming upon people. It's also worth pointing out 519 00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 1: that a tiger usually makes one large kill every week, 520 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,960 Speaker 1: and so, uh, the map here is that since India 521 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,320 Speaker 1: has se hundred or so tigers, that's more than eighty 522 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:10,320 Speaker 1: five thousand kills in a year. But we're not experiencing 523 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,159 Speaker 1: anywhere near that number of of of deaths among humans 524 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,680 Speaker 1: at the hand of tigers. Less than eighty five people 525 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: are killed or injured accidentally or otherwise in a year 526 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: by tigers in India. So many more pittent times that 527 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 1: die from the snake bites, rabies, uh, you name it. 528 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,119 Speaker 1: But again, the idea of an anna of a predator 529 00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,639 Speaker 1: praying on humans, it's an idea that just resonates so 530 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 1: strongly with this and just drives the fear. I mean, 531 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: we just mentioned the story out of India, uh and 532 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:42,440 Speaker 1: in there are many cases, you know, certain of some 533 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 1: of our listeners are gonna be more tied in two 534 00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,400 Speaker 1: news out of India uh than other listeners. But I 535 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 1: imagine for a lot of people, like that's gonna be 536 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: the only news you hear out of India this week 537 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 1: is that there's a man eating tiger on the loose. 538 00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,760 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how far it resonates, because that that 539 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: that is is is scary and and uh and and 540 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: sort of boggles your imagination and makes your your your 541 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:05,960 Speaker 1: mind run wild no matter where you are. And they 542 00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: of course, of course that would seize your imagination and 543 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:12,160 Speaker 1: you would stay indoors um. In terms of the United States, 544 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:18,240 Speaker 1: the real problem is a dog, spider or some other insect. 545 00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,800 Speaker 1: And according to CDC statistics of the one thousand, nine 546 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: eighty nine Americans killed by animals between nine and two 547 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,959 Speaker 1: thousand and eight. Most of those deaths are attributed to dogs, insects, 548 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: and spiders. So again you have to scale the things 549 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: that are imaginary, those imaginary threats with what is actually 550 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:41,480 Speaker 1: happening at the time. Um out in the wild. Now 551 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 1: it's it's a great thing. You mentioned dogs, but because 552 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,400 Speaker 1: of course with with dogs and and in some of 553 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:48,040 Speaker 1: these cases we might be talking about dogs that are 554 00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,800 Speaker 1: a bit wild, but for the most part we're talking 555 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: about the domestic dog and all the complications that come 556 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 1: along with that. And we could do a whole podcast 557 00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,600 Speaker 1: on this, and we probably should, about what happens when 558 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: we have animals that are no longer wild, they have 559 00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: become domesticated, or they are kept in some sort of 560 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: you know, zoo type habitat, you know, totally reduced habitat, 561 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,640 Speaker 1: totally unnatural living situation. What does that do to the 562 00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:17,000 Speaker 1: animal's mind, even if they are kept in uh, you know, 563 00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: in relatively comfortable care, discounting abuse and UH and and 564 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,760 Speaker 1: other harsh realities of domestication and animal imprisonment. Well, probably 565 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:29,720 Speaker 1: one of the best examples of this can be found 566 00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: in the Blackfish documentary, which talks about Tillicum who is 567 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,320 Speaker 1: a killer whale, an orca and um and actually documents 568 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: the three killings of humans by Tillicum. Yes, and it's 569 00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,240 Speaker 1: worth it's very important to note here that there has 570 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 1: never been a confirmed case of an orca killing a 571 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 1: human in the wild. You've had situations where sailors have 572 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 1: fallen directly into into the orca pods and they've emerged 573 00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: without any harm. And uh so the so the idea 574 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 1: that that they're killing people in captivity, that instantly raises 575 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: some questions about, well, what is it about captivity that 576 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: is that is making them do this. The interesting thing 577 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: about this too, is that they're not eating them, so 578 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: obviously they're not doing this as a source of protein. 579 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: They're doing this most likely as particularly when you look 580 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:25,760 Speaker 1: at this case of Telecom as a byproduct of zukosis. 581 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: And if you look at Telecom, he was an organ 582 00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:31,160 Speaker 1: that was separated from his mother at a young age 583 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 1: and then shipped off to Ceiland in British Columbia to 584 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: perform for audiences, where he was kept in what amounted 585 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:43,080 Speaker 1: to a lightless floating twenty by twenty eight foot shed 586 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: and shed that again had no light coming in. And 587 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: we're talking about being kept in that shed for upwards 588 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 1: of fourteen hours overnight. In addition to that, because he 589 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: hadn't been properly socialized, and kind of because he was 590 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: a little man on the totem pole, he was the 591 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,160 Speaker 1: subject of a lot of aggressive acts by other orcas 592 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 1: that he was either mating with or performing with. So 593 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,560 Speaker 1: even by the time that he was moved over to 594 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: sea World and given you know, more room to be 595 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 1: in and probably better um, you know, living quarters, he 596 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: had already began to exhibit signs of zukosis. Yeah, I mean, 597 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: it basically comes down to the fact that that in 598 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: the orca you have an intelligent social creature. And if 599 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:35,200 Speaker 1: you take that intelligent social creature out of the wild 600 00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,480 Speaker 1: and put it in an enclosed environment that is it's 601 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 1: not even a slice of its natural world, you can 602 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 1: end up with metal suttress. You can end up with aggression, 603 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,320 Speaker 1: and then it's going to manifest itself at times and 604 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,400 Speaker 1: potentially fatal encounters with the human captors. Yeah, it's interesting. 605 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 1: If you look at this documentary, you get more information, 606 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:58,720 Speaker 1: more end up information about these three killings. And one 607 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: of the killings was just one person who broke into 608 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:06,520 Speaker 1: the holding area and UH, and they found this guy 609 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,800 Speaker 1: naked and um dead the following morning, so they're not 610 00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: entirely sure what happened UM. But the other two killings 611 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 1: happened with trainers, and in one of those instances, you 612 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,400 Speaker 1: you can see the film footage on this, the trainer 613 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: has not rewarded Tillicum for Um performing a certain trick 614 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,720 Speaker 1: because she just didn't see it. She was talking to 615 00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:29,720 Speaker 1: the audience, so she assumed he hadn't done it, so 616 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: she didn't reward him with the fish. So the idea 617 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: is that that might have set off her eventual death 618 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 1: with him pull him pulling her under sort of retribution 619 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: for not realizing that, you know, he had done the trick. 620 00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: And when you think about zukosis and you think about 621 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: animals um having this sort of psychosis and having that 622 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,400 Speaker 1: level of sensitivity, then that's their life. Those for their life, 623 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: and that becomes maybe a matter of life or death 624 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,600 Speaker 1: to that orca. I mean, we don't know obviously, and 625 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: I don't mean to anthropomorphizus here, but you can begin 626 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:06,160 Speaker 1: to see how something like this happens. Well, I mean, 627 00:34:06,200 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: if anyone who's a dog owner out there knows, what 628 00:34:09,160 --> 00:34:11,360 Speaker 1: do you tell a child about about the dog. No 629 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: matter how family the dog is, you don't touch the 630 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:17,320 Speaker 1: dog wants eating because because no matter how domesticated the species, 631 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: that there is that basic principle of life. Food is 632 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,720 Speaker 1: the is the most important thing, along with with mating 633 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,480 Speaker 1: and reproduction, is a very genetic mission. Uh, you know, 634 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 1: at heart of every creature, and if you interfere with that, potentially, 635 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 1: you know, set off a string of events. Yeah, it's 636 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: very true. Now let's just kind of shift a couple 637 00:34:40,160 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 1: of degrees here, actually a lot of degrees, and talk 638 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:47,800 Speaker 1: about humans. And we're not going to go super into 639 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,879 Speaker 1: cannibalism here, but we're going to talk about this idea 640 00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: about whether or not humans could actually get a taste 641 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: for human blood. Yeah. We we mentioned at the beginning 642 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:58,160 Speaker 1: that there's a certain I get the sense that with 643 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: the man man eater idea that there is this notion that, oh, 644 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 1: humans are off the menu items and therefore we're the 645 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: most delicious, and that if anything, we're to get a 646 00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:09,719 Speaker 1: taste of us, then how could they resist eating us 647 00:35:09,760 --> 00:35:14,200 Speaker 1: all the time. Uh. There's actually an an interesting argument 648 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,279 Speaker 1: that that that this this isn't the case with any 649 00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,319 Speaker 1: animal out there except humans. Of course, humans complicate the 650 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,239 Speaker 1: situation as always, because we're not just this uh, this 651 00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: this creature out there, uh, you know, living in an 652 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: unconscious existence in the wild. We're very conscious. We we 653 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: have these layers of culture and language in which which 654 00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,319 Speaker 1: just completely complicate any and everything we do. And so 655 00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:43,760 Speaker 1: you do have situations, obviously where people turn to cannibalism. Uh. 656 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,720 Speaker 1: A lot of the time it's just for simple economic reasons, 657 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,919 Speaker 1: just like the rest of the world, a situation where cannibalism, 658 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: an act of cannibalism, means survival in a bad situation. 659 00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: But then you have situations where people turn to cannibalism, 660 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: uh due to uh well, for lack of a better word, 661 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Speaker 1: insane reasons. In two thousand and twelve, there were a 662 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,440 Speaker 1: spate of crimes that involve face fighting, dismemberment, and cannibalism, 663 00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:11,799 Speaker 1: and in these cases, Karen Highland, she is a therapist 664 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:16,160 Speaker 1: at Summit Malibu Treatment Center in California, said cannibalism often 665 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 1: begins as a fantasy which the person plays out in 666 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: his or her head. But when that person gets a 667 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:26,000 Speaker 1: taste for real, she says, you know, like the real, 668 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: actual meat of the human, she says quote, the pleasure 669 00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,480 Speaker 1: center of the brain becomes activated and large amounts of 670 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,880 Speaker 1: dopamine are released, similar to what happens when someone ingests 671 00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: a drug like cocaine. I gotta say my right now, 672 00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:44,120 Speaker 1: my eyebrow is dubiously raised. Yeah, it's again, it's I 673 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,360 Speaker 1: feel like it's important to again realize that with humans 674 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: everything is is complicated because humans can have fantasies about 675 00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: doing something that they've built up in their mind for 676 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, a decade or more. They can they can 677 00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:02,120 Speaker 1: just be totally enraptured, but by the idea of doing 678 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: something humans unlike uh, you know, most of the animal world. 679 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,360 Speaker 1: We have we have taboos, we have things that exist 680 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:12,800 Speaker 1: outside of what is accepted by our culture, and those 681 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: things can become attractive to varying degrees. So you gotta 682 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,560 Speaker 1: take take that into account. And then if you're going 683 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,760 Speaker 1: to eat human flesh, and it's very basis, you're ingesting something. 684 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: And if you ingest food, if you ingest uh, you know, 685 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 1: beef jerky, or the face of somebody that you attacked 686 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 1: on a on on the freeway, there is going to 687 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,399 Speaker 1: be a biological response to that. Your boy, you are 688 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,759 Speaker 1: there is gonna be uh you know, are ingesting vitamins. Uh. There, 689 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,080 Speaker 1: you know your body is going to react. You're going 690 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 1: to you're going to feel a certain amount of pleasure 691 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,880 Speaker 1: upon eating. I mean, that's just biology. And so you 692 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:54,320 Speaker 1: add that in with all these complicated layers of fantasy 693 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: and and taboo and uh and sexual desire, and you're 694 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,360 Speaker 1: gonna get some weird results. Well. So she's not calling 695 00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: out the habit loop, as we had touched on with 696 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:06,520 Speaker 1: Charles du Hick's research about how to make a habit, right, 697 00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,239 Speaker 1: but she is touching on one of the things that 698 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: makes a habit, and that's a release of dopamine. Right. 699 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:14,200 Speaker 1: And so that's the reason why a brain says me like, yeah, 700 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,920 Speaker 1: I want to do it again, but I just can't 701 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:19,440 Speaker 1: conceive of doing that one time. And all of a 702 00:38:19,480 --> 00:38:23,839 Speaker 1: sudden you have this really robust neural pathway that's demanding 703 00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:27,719 Speaker 1: human flesh. I think that for me is the the 704 00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: leap in logic that's a bit difficult. Well, everything else 705 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,239 Speaker 1: I sort of understand. I just don't know that that 706 00:38:33,320 --> 00:38:37,680 Speaker 1: one time would be enough. Um. And but she is 707 00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: equating it with cocaine and saying that, you know, the 708 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: cutting of cocaine is very similar in the sense of 709 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:50,840 Speaker 1: planning for the killing and eating of someone. She's saying 710 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,960 Speaker 1: that it's the same sort of anticipation and you know 711 00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:59,480 Speaker 1: this the same sort of uh real hook that's in 712 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,560 Speaker 1: your brain and about what's about to happen. I feel 713 00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,400 Speaker 1: like she might be chewing more than she bites off. Now. 714 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: I ran across another article that dealt with some of 715 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: this title at A Beginner's Guide to Sexual Cannibalism by 716 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 1: and Dr Mark D. Griffiths, PhD. And this season, but 717 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,280 Speaker 1: this is on Psychology Today, and they pointed and and 718 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:21,200 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read you this quote from it, so 719 00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: that so that the reference that Mark Griffiths is making here, 720 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,720 Speaker 1: uh you know it isn't overstated, he says. Leslie Hinsel, 721 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:32,160 Speaker 1: author of Cannibalism as a Sexual Disorder, says eating human 722 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: flesh can cause an increase in levels of vitamin A 723 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,960 Speaker 1: and amino acids, which can cause a chemical effect on 724 00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: the blood and in the brain. This chemical reaction could 725 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: possibly lead to the altered states that some cannibals have 726 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: have claimed to have experienced. However, this theory has not 727 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: been substantiated by scientific evidence. Well, there you go. Yeah, 728 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: I gotta say, but again, I you know, think to 729 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,359 Speaker 1: that time that you had, like a really delicious hamburger 730 00:39:57,520 --> 00:39:59,600 Speaker 1: or some sort of a treat that you normally don't 731 00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 1: allow yourself, and how satisfying that food can be. It can't. 732 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:08,800 Speaker 1: Food can be euphoric, like a really good piece of 733 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:14,880 Speaker 1: sushi are really you know, particularly perfect grapefruit there you 734 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 1: can feel a sense of euphoria with your food just 735 00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:23,719 Speaker 1: on its own, without layering in sexual fantasy and cultural taboos. 736 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:28,000 Speaker 1: So again, eating is a physical act that has an 737 00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:32,120 Speaker 1: effect on the brain, even if you're not talking about cantalism. 738 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:34,520 Speaker 1: I just don't Yeah, I just don't see human meat 739 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:39,440 Speaker 1: being a go to comfort food. I mean maybe And actually, 740 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,759 Speaker 1: if today's video game releases any indication it's a possibility. 741 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:49,319 Speaker 1: There's a game called Tasty Tasty Grandpa that just came out. Yeah, 742 00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: this is gonna be an iOS two D quote eat 743 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:54,760 Speaker 1: em up that you can play on your your phone 744 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,920 Speaker 1: and various gadgets, um, and hopefully it will be available 745 00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: by the time this podcast goes lives because because it 746 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,280 Speaker 1: looks amazing, Uh, do a search for Tasty Tasty Grandpa 747 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,239 Speaker 1: and you can see the video clip Basically you start 748 00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,600 Speaker 1: off as this as this baby and uh and what 749 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: do you do to survive? Well, you have to eat 750 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,600 Speaker 1: those who are older than you to level up to 751 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:18,239 Speaker 1: a different age group. And we're talking very cartoon cannibalism. 752 00:41:18,560 --> 00:41:21,120 Speaker 1: It's just just you know, eat whole with no blood 753 00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: or bones or anything. Grows like that. Yeah, the background 754 00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: is an Elizabethan Theater carousel, so it's nothing to do 755 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:31,240 Speaker 1: morbid or anything. But the older user gets, the more 756 00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,359 Speaker 1: younger people are out to get them. So then you 757 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:38,960 Speaker 1: have to try to survive cannibalism as well. Well. I 758 00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,719 Speaker 1: feel like it's a perfect metaphor for life, especially if 759 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: you're if you happen to be in the media. Uh So, 760 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:48,399 Speaker 1: if you're doing a podcast, you start thinking, oh, man, 761 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,040 Speaker 1: look at the look at the playing field. We have 762 00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:53,600 Speaker 1: all these young people coming up, and there's still old 763 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:55,920 Speaker 1: dudes out there that I want to take down and 764 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,759 Speaker 1: get their spot, you know. Well, as as far as 765 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,439 Speaker 1: exploring cannibalism through technology, I can't help but think about 766 00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,600 Speaker 1: the singularity of course again when robots will be our overlords. 767 00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,719 Speaker 1: And I think this is where I think cannibalisms and 768 00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: humans may finally meet. As I envision these arenas where 769 00:42:14,920 --> 00:42:19,240 Speaker 1: humans are ushered in along with sort of like half 770 00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:24,520 Speaker 1: droid half animals and made to try to consume each other. WHOA, 771 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:27,200 Speaker 1: So you're saying that when the when the robots take over, yes, 772 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:34,640 Speaker 1: they will initiate gladiatorial combat between captured humans and cybernetic 773 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:38,879 Speaker 1: animals something like that, and they have to eat each other. Well, 774 00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: of course cybernetic animals, and how that's gonna work adjustive system. 775 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:44,880 Speaker 1: But this is what's in my mind going to happen. 776 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,720 Speaker 1: I love how we discussed bringing up the Tasty Tasty 777 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:51,160 Speaker 1: Grandpa as a way to to ease out of the 778 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:55,000 Speaker 1: cannibalism discussion in the Lighter Territory to close out the podcast, 779 00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,080 Speaker 1: and you you managed to grab the wheel and pulled 780 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 1: right back around to post apocalypt gladiatorial battle between humans 781 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: and cybernet animals. Yeah, I put us in the ditch, didn't. 782 00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,240 Speaker 1: But think about it, right, I mean at that point, 783 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,840 Speaker 1: at the Singularity, we will be striving for meeting in 784 00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,000 Speaker 1: our life, right because computers will be doing everything, So 785 00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,520 Speaker 1: this provides meeting in a way survival, Okay, I mean 786 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,880 Speaker 1: I'm not advocating that you've put the idea out there 787 00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:25,680 Speaker 1: into the internet, which is kind of the mind of 788 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,000 Speaker 1: our future machine masters. So when it does, when it 789 00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,560 Speaker 1: when that, if it does happen, I feel like future 790 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:35,320 Speaker 1: generations can look back to Julie Douglas and say, she's 791 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 1: the one who told the robots that this is what 792 00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,520 Speaker 1: would help us out in the end. Oh my gosh, 793 00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,000 Speaker 1: you're saying that when in the future I am staring 794 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,640 Speaker 1: into the eyes and the jaws of a wooly mammoth 795 00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:50,719 Speaker 1: hybrid jaguar and meeting my death, that I should think 796 00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,200 Speaker 1: my past self. Yeah, you have chosen the form of 797 00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:57,960 Speaker 1: the destructor, putting that into the stream of a robot consciousness. Okay, 798 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: fair enough. So there you go. Eaters, the idea of 799 00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 1: the man eater, the reality of the man eat or 800 00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:08,080 Speaker 1: what what may tip the scale in some cases for 801 00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,600 Speaker 1: an animal and and make it go after human prey, 802 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: either you know, just a little bit or exclusively. Yeah, 803 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,439 Speaker 1: a couple of things for you guys to percolate on. 804 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: And if you want to find out more information, more 805 00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:21,879 Speaker 1: stuff that we're putting out there in the universe and 806 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,240 Speaker 1: given to the robots, you can check out a little website. 807 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: We have, yes, stuff to blow your mind. Dot com. 808 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,600 Speaker 1: That is the mothership. You will find all of our 809 00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,320 Speaker 1: podcast episodes there, and I mean all of them, because 810 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,560 Speaker 1: you will find an incomplete catalog of our episodes on iTunes, 811 00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: on SoundCloud in other places. Those are great places to 812 00:44:38,520 --> 00:44:40,840 Speaker 1: to check us out. But you want everything, you have 813 00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:43,680 Speaker 1: to come to our website. This is how it is. Hey. 814 00:44:43,719 --> 00:44:45,719 Speaker 1: You can also check out our blog posts. There are 815 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,040 Speaker 1: videos links out to our various social media accounts that includes, 816 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,920 Speaker 1: for instance, our Facebook feed or Twitter feed or tumbler feed, 817 00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:56,600 Speaker 1: Google Plus. Uh, but check it out. There's a there's 818 00:44:56,640 --> 00:44:59,240 Speaker 1: one in particular that you follow. We are probably doing 819 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:01,560 Speaker 1: something on it as well at this very moment, at 820 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,520 Speaker 1: this very moment. And you can also send us your 821 00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,520 Speaker 1: thoughts via email, and you can do that below the 822 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 1: mind at Discovery dot com. For more on this and 823 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:23,640 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics, visit how Stuff Works dot com