Speaker 1: Boom. If you thought four hours a day dred minutes
Speaker 1: a week was enough, think again. He's the last remnants
Speaker 1: of the old republic, a sole fashion of fairness. He
Speaker 1: treats crackheads in the ghetto cutter the same as the
Speaker 1: rich pill poppers in the penthouse the clearing House of
Speaker 1: hot takes break free for something special. The Fifth Hour
Speaker 1: with Ben Maller starts right now that it is the
Speaker 1: Fifth Hour with Ben Mallard and David Gascon. West of
Speaker 1: the four oh five, we were back at it again.
Speaker 1: A new weekend is upon us. And as I say
Speaker 1: every single edition of The Fifth Hour, we do this eight.
Speaker 1: I do it eight days a week. Not yes, Scott,
Speaker 1: I do it eight days a week because four hours
Speaker 1: a night are not enough. And Friday Friday Friday an
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about one of my favorite topics, the
Speaker 1: business of sport. We're gonna get to that in a minute, Gasco,
Speaker 1: which I'm excited about. Yeah, it's you usually have because
Speaker 1: the summertime for us in the National Football League, and
Speaker 1: it's always the time where you can showcase uh certain
Speaker 1: things around the NFL, and one of them is the
Speaker 1: NFL Book. Him that you have crafted a few years ago,
Speaker 1: and uh, I know Frank Clark was added to a
Speaker 1: list just a few few days ago. Yes, as I
Speaker 1: pointed out on the radio show the other day that
Speaker 1: I had the chiefs in the NFL book him and
Speaker 1: that's actually a twofer because he got arrested twice for
Speaker 1: gun violations. We didn't even hear about the first one.
Speaker 1: And you see, the problem is he's got such a
Speaker 1: generic name, Frank Clark, like it doesn't stay it out.
Speaker 1: So there are as you know, the people over t
Speaker 1: MZ and some of these other websites they constantly are
Speaker 1: looking through to see who got arrested, to see if
Speaker 1: they can match the name up with the celebrity. It's
Speaker 1: very hard. Your name Frank Clark, I mean that's you know,
Speaker 1: Joe Blow. You know, it's like it's like what are
Speaker 1: you doing? So it's like John John Smith or something
Speaker 1: like that. So it's it's a pretty generic name. But
Speaker 1: but we had that. But the sports business in the
Speaker 1: big story of the week, this nc double a story,
Speaker 1: and I didn't spend too much time on it on
Speaker 1: on the radio show. I thought the podcast would be
Speaker 1: the perfect format to break this down because there's a
Speaker 1: lot of lawyers involved, there's a lot of bureaucrats. It's
Speaker 1: the perfect storm, and I thought who better to break
Speaker 1: it all down? And something we've talked to before Michael McCarthy,
Speaker 1: who is the senior writers at front Office sports dot com.
Speaker 1: It's a somewhat recent startup covers sports business and they
Speaker 1: do a really good job. It's it's it's a startup,
Speaker 1: so it's a new website, don't have a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of traction, but it's it's head in places.
Speaker 1: And Michael McCarthy, if you remember he was on last
Speaker 1: time couple of months ago, he's worked for the USA today.
Speaker 1: That's where I first came in contact with Mr McCarthy,
Speaker 1: Sports Illustrated. He's had bylines at the New York Times,
Speaker 1: the Wall Street Journal, He's been all over the place
Speaker 1: covering sports business. And so we welcome in Michael McCarthy
Speaker 1: here to the Fifth Hour with Ben Maller and David Gascott,
Speaker 1: and so let's get into it. The Supreme Court ruling,
Speaker 1: bombshell ruling. Is this the end of the n c
Speaker 1: A as we know it? Michael put it in layman's terms,
Speaker 1: how big a deal is this? I truly believe it's
Speaker 1: beginning of the end for the n C double A. Um,
Speaker 1: this is it. Uh, you know, just the way the
Speaker 1: Supreme Court changed sports betting in this country, I believe
Speaker 1: that with this ruling, the Supreme Court is going to
Speaker 1: completely change the landscape of college athletics and opened the
Speaker 1: door for UH student athletes to be paid as they
Speaker 1: should be in my opinion. Yeah, so, now, how does
Speaker 1: Title nine plans? I I worked with a guy on
Speaker 1: the overnight o Eddie Who, and I've heard this from
Speaker 1: other people that say, well, this is there's no way
Speaker 1: this actually goes forward because, yeah, the women's college basketball player,
Speaker 1: the woman's tennis player is gonna say, wait a minute,
Speaker 1: how come the football player at Alabama or the basketball
Speaker 1: player at Duke is getting all this money? Explain in
Speaker 1: Layman's terms here, Michael, why that is or not is
Speaker 1: not an issue as far as this is concerned. I
Speaker 1: think it is an issue because you know, once the
Speaker 1: cat is out of the bag, everybody is going to
Speaker 1: want a piece of the pie. But you know, the
Speaker 1: fact remains that there are certain programs and certain sports
Speaker 1: that generate almost all of the revenue for college programs.
Speaker 1: You know, football being one of them and basketball being another.
Speaker 1: But you know that is not going to stop somebody
Speaker 1: from you know, the crew team from setting you know,
Speaker 1: I want my percentage of this, So I mean, I
Speaker 1: think it all has to be worked out. It's going
Speaker 1: to be incredibly complicated. But with his a will, there
Speaker 1: is a and when there's money, there's a way too.
Speaker 1: I mean, if people are going from getting zero to
Speaker 1: getting something, I think they'll they'll work it out. Well,
Speaker 1: it sounds the way you explained that. It sounds like
Speaker 1: we're just gonna have endless lawsuit after lawsuit after lawsuit
Speaker 1: once this thing actually, whatever it ends up being happens, right,
Speaker 1: is that the way you see it. I do see
Speaker 1: that exactly that way. I think there's gonna be incredible
Speaker 1: wrangling over money, incredible wrangling over percentages. It's going to
Speaker 1: pit men's sports against women's sports, trans athletes. I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, you've opened up a can of worms here,
Speaker 1: Supreme Court. Uh. That is just gonna you know, be
Speaker 1: be scorpions in a bottle fighting over the money. Uh.
Speaker 1: And you know it's not the worst thing in the world.
Speaker 1: I mean, somehow it will all that out. Uh. And
Speaker 1: some people are gonna, you know, get more money than others.
Speaker 1: And some people are gonna be desperately unhappy and some
Speaker 1: people are gonna be thrilled. But I think this is
Speaker 1: the way it had to go. I think the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court made the right decision. And I think if you know,
Speaker 1: you listen to people like Paul Farmbound who know their
Speaker 1: stuff about college sports, you know this is the beginning
Speaker 1: of the end for the n C Double A. But
Speaker 1: I saw the story the other day that you guys
Speaker 1: at Front Office Sports that the NFL agents are are
Speaker 1: essentially working like vultures right once this story came out
Speaker 1: with the Supreme Court. Uh, and I imagine the NBA
Speaker 1: guys are doing the same thing. Oh, it's not as
Speaker 1: prevalent in you know, in basketball, because guys come out,
Speaker 1: they're one and done guys. But what what kind of money,
Speaker 1: Michael is being tossed around that you've heard and what's
Speaker 1: been reported with these NFL agents trying to suck up
Speaker 1: some of these top college players. I mean you're talking
Speaker 1: about potentially billions here, and likeness rights and advertising rights
Speaker 1: and sponsorships. I mean, this is a gold rush that
Speaker 1: probably will be looked back a couple of years from
Speaker 1: now comparable to the sports petting gold rush we ball experienced.
Speaker 1: It's the two eighteen Supreme Court ruling. I mean, just today,
Speaker 1: Canada paved the way for legalized sports betting, and Canada
Speaker 1: is an enormous market. Everybody loves to bet up there
Speaker 1: and they love football. So you know you're gonna have
Speaker 1: two gold rushes going on at the same time, and
Speaker 1: you know the agents who are doing that, in my
Speaker 1: opinion of being pretty clever and smart, that being proactive.
Speaker 1: You want to get out ahead of this thing. You
Speaker 1: want to try to see around the corner of what's next.
Speaker 1: You don't want to be reactive. Be sure to catch
Speaker 1: live editions of The Ben Miller Show weekdays at two
Speaker 1: am eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure to catch live
Speaker 1: editions of The Ben Meller Show weekdays at two am
Speaker 1: eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio and the
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. Michael, on that note, does this
Speaker 1: mean that it's a swift kick in the pants from
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court to Mark Emmert, where now you're gonna
Speaker 1: possibly look at realignment. No more power fives, no more
Speaker 1: mid majors. You're gonna have conferences that are aligned based
Speaker 1: on a region A last the South, Midwest, and the East. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you know, the head of the n c
Speaker 1: A has to you know, literally remove the Supreme Court's
Speaker 1: foot from his ass after this ruling. I mean that's
Speaker 1: even possible. I mean it might take surgical interventions, but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean every even the grabs now, including the TV rights,
Speaker 1: which you know, I'm I'm curious to see, you know,
Speaker 1: right now ESPN as a regual stranglehold on college athlete
Speaker 1: TV rights. You know what's going to happen there? Uh?
Speaker 1: You know, the Supreme Court doesn't often do something like
Speaker 1: this where it just changes the world upside down. You know,
Speaker 1: it happens, you know, once every five ten years, but
Speaker 1: this is one of them. Yeah, and you look at
Speaker 1: the Supreme Court, I mean, the majority are conservative, so
Speaker 1: it's pretty interesting to see them throw this thing for loop.
Speaker 1: I guess the biggest question that that a lot of
Speaker 1: people might have in their mind is why did it
Speaker 1: take so long for someone to advocate for these student athletes?
Speaker 1: Because you know, it's not going to come from the
Speaker 1: universities themselves. Money. You know, it's all about money. You know,
Speaker 1: the people who had the money was in their best
Speaker 1: interest to create a system that was virtual serfdom for
Speaker 1: these student athletes. And you know, there was always the thing, well,
Speaker 1: they're getting an education, they're getting this, but I mean,
Speaker 1: who's kidding who? I mean, the money that they were
Speaker 1: making off these kids compared to what the kids were
Speaker 1: getting back was so lopsided. I also think David to
Speaker 1: the point about why this is happening now, I actually
Speaker 1: think that the reason, one of the reasons that's happening
Speaker 1: now is there's been so much focused by the media
Speaker 1: on the enormous sums that are paid to college coaches,
Speaker 1: the savings of the world and the urban myers, and
Speaker 1: the fact that these men are making you know, twelve
Speaker 1: million dollars a year, thirteen million dollars a year, and
Speaker 1: their kids on the field of making zero, nothing, zero,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think was one of
Speaker 1: the to put it over the top. I hate to
Speaker 1: think radically about this, but do you think this can
Speaker 1: actually push college athletics and these universities towards I don't know,
Speaker 1: like maybe satellite programs or academies, because the reality is,
Speaker 1: if you're looking at college basketball, these kids are staying
Speaker 1: for a year maybe two at max unless they're mid level,
Speaker 1: they're not gonna go anywhere out for the college days
Speaker 1: and then for all intensive purposes of the college football players,
Speaker 1: they're there for a couple of years and only because
Speaker 1: they can't get there as a freshman. Do you think
Speaker 1: this turns into something where it's just a specialty program
Speaker 1: for these universities, because what's the what's the incentive for
Speaker 1: these programs to bring these kids in and have them
Speaker 1: be one and done. Yeah, I think we're already at that.
Speaker 1: I think we've already got a two tier system in
Speaker 1: college where, you know, the really special athletes who have
Speaker 1: a chance is to make the pros are on that
Speaker 1: track and the other athletes are doing it for nothing,
Speaker 1: for the love of the game. Uh. You know, I
Speaker 1: have a daughter in high school who was a high
Speaker 1: school athlete. I have a son in college, so I'm
Speaker 1: real familiar with the amateur athletics. And i can tell
Speaker 1: you you know, a lot of the kids I know
Speaker 1: and the kids I coached, you know, go into college
Speaker 1: athletes knowing that they'll never make the pros. Uh, well,
Speaker 1: they'll never make a career out of it, but that
Speaker 1: it's something that they love whereas you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: you have that special athlete, you know that kid who's
Speaker 1: born you know, with a right arm like a thunderbolt,
Speaker 1: as Crash Davis would say in uh, you know that
Speaker 1: Great Baseball movie. And they know that, you know, from
Speaker 1: the age of ten twelve on that they have a shot,
Speaker 1: and they're on a completely different track. Well, Mike Michael
Speaker 1: as well, you mentioned the coaches and Nick Saban and
Speaker 1: these top coaches that make tens of millions of dollars
Speaker 1: a year. And I've already seen some of the propaganda
Speaker 1: from the n c A and some of the schools
Speaker 1: that this is going to destroy the business of college sports.
Speaker 1: And this is a Domesday scenario some people have been
Speaker 1: hinting about. But what's the trickle that Does this impact
Speaker 1: the the top coaches salaries at all? Do they continue
Speaker 1: to go up to they go down now because the
Speaker 1: players are getting some uh some cut of the pie,
Speaker 1: if you will. How does this affect the coaches? I
Speaker 1: think it's uh, it's going to have a trickle down effect.
Speaker 1: Maybe more than a trickle down effect. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: some of the college coaching salaries are gonna be frozen
Speaker 1: if not go down. And I think where it can
Speaker 1: really hurt is where you're you know, you've seen these
Speaker 1: coordinators at the big school who were themselves making multiple
Speaker 1: millions of dollars as a coaching waiting, as a head
Speaker 1: coaching waiting. I think it could really hit them. So,
Speaker 1: you know, I think playtime is over for these college coaches.
Speaker 1: You know, they had it sweep for a long time,
Speaker 1: especially the football coaches. You know what I mean, they
Speaker 1: made tens of millions of dollars. They never kept their
Speaker 1: promises to their players, They never kept their promises to
Speaker 1: their programs. And reality is going to be, you know,
Speaker 1: a tough wake up call, but it's a long overdue absolutely.
Speaker 1: As far as the sports betting, you mentioned the gold rush,
Speaker 1: which we've seen here in the next few years in
Speaker 1: the US, it's it's already started state by state as
Speaker 1: they add add more money. Uh. You know, what do
Speaker 1: we talk about from the from a sports perspective. I remember,
Speaker 1: I think last time we had you on, we talked
Speaker 1: about there was an owner that had said they're gonna
Speaker 1: make more money from gambling eventually than television. Uh. And
Speaker 1: and you know, just that whole whole mindset I know
Speaker 1: some of the teams have partnered with a sports gambling outfits.
Speaker 1: Is that just gonna become the way of the world
Speaker 1: now that you have to have a deal with DraftKings
Speaker 1: or you have to have a deal with somebody. Explain
Speaker 1: what the landscape is gonna look like, Michael, five years
Speaker 1: from now, Well, the landscape is going to, you know,
Speaker 1: be completely different. First of all, legalized sports betting is
Speaker 1: going to be completely um uh, you know, accepted and normal.
Speaker 1: It wouldn't be surprised me to see, you know, the
Speaker 1: fan duels and the draft kings of the world own
Speaker 1: their own media rights. Let's say, you know, you're the
Speaker 1: Chicago Cubs or you're the Cleveland Indians, whatever in your
Speaker 1: media deals up. Why couldn't a fan duel or a DraftKings,
Speaker 1: you know, go ahead and buy those media rights themselves.
Speaker 1: I mean, you've already seen it with the Valley Sports Network.
Speaker 1: I think you know number two that this whole uh
Speaker 1: situation in terms of being a gold rush, I think
Speaker 1: you're gonna see media companies, but competting companies and betting
Speaker 1: companies become media company. In fact, that's happening already. We
Speaker 1: just did a story that ESPN is looking at opening
Speaker 1: their own branded sports book, similar to the old ESPN
Speaker 1: Zone restaurants. Meet while You've got you know, the fan
Speaker 1: Duels and the Draft Kings are out there hiring talent,
Speaker 1: hiring reporters and analysts. So I mean, would it surprise
Speaker 1: meet five years from now to see Adam Schefter reporting
Speaker 1: for Fan Duel or DraftKings instead of ESPN? Not at all.
Speaker 1: Would it surprise me to see Woge delivering his wog
Speaker 1: bombs for a sports betting company that's now a meeting company?
Speaker 1: Not at all, because they're the ones who could pay
Speaker 1: those salaries. What kind of impact do you think Amazon
Speaker 1: is gonna have this entire game? Amazon is what everybody
Speaker 1: is watching. I mean, I think that the real key
Speaker 1: to watch with Amazon and Thursday Night Football is one
Speaker 1: word megacasts. ESPN has proven that these mega casts have life.
Speaker 1: They've done it extremely well during college football National Championship Game.
Speaker 1: And I think Amazon is going to go out there
Speaker 1: with a program that's gonna be completely different than what
Speaker 1: we see on you know, Sunday afternoon CBS. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be uh, you know, one main telecast. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: you have an al Michaels, you know, somebody who the
Speaker 1: fans are familiar with. But after that, there's going to
Speaker 1: be special telecasts devoted to all sorts of things. There's
Speaker 1: gonna be a sports gambling Amazon game telecast. There's gonna
Speaker 1: be uh, you know, the kind of MegaCast coverage that
Speaker 1: you see on ESPN. So I think Amazon is really
Speaker 1: looking to shake this up and to really segment it.
Speaker 1: They're not gonna go out there with a you know,
Speaker 1: one size fits all telecast like we've seen for fifty
Speaker 1: years of the NFL. It's going to be specialized. So
Speaker 1: on that note, then, are these leagues gonna have compliance
Speaker 1: units that will police and try to look at the
Speaker 1: underbelly of this gambling universe? Or do you think that
Speaker 1: the leagues will rely on the FBI and some of
Speaker 1: the other agencies to root out any kind of wrongdoing.
Speaker 1: I think the leagues have always sort of looked the
Speaker 1: other way and relied on you know, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: law enforcement to let them know. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: take a look at the Tim Donnahey scandal. I mean
Speaker 1: that this went on for so long in the NBA.
Speaker 1: A crooked referee, you know what I mean, shading and
Speaker 1: fixing games, and the NBA had no clue about this
Speaker 1: until it came out. I think that, you know, the
Speaker 1: sports leagues are not going to waste a lot of
Speaker 1: time and resources on compliance. I think they're counting on
Speaker 1: the fact that the increased legalization of sports betting is
Speaker 1: eliminating that organized crime element that was so dominant for decades. Well,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you might look at it that way. But
Speaker 1: then I could counter and say, well, you can look
Speaker 1: at corruption with officials, game day officials, players, coaches, coordinators.
Speaker 1: I mean, you happened in Major League Baseball a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago at the Ties seventeen Nastros, and you know,
Speaker 1: Rob Manfred gave these guys a slap on the wrist,
Speaker 1: they got aways scott free, and then get to they
Speaker 1: got to keep a World Series title. That's exactly my point.
Speaker 1: You know, the NBA had a crooked referee, and within
Speaker 1: a couple of months a story had passed. You know, uh,
Speaker 1: in Major League Baseball had a World Series champion cheating
Speaker 1: and cheating in such an obvious way that they were
Speaker 1: almost laughing at the rules, and the sport went on.
Speaker 1: So I don't really think the sports as leagues take
Speaker 1: this stuff, uh seriously in terms of you know, we've
Speaker 1: got a route out compliance, like they deal with it
Speaker 1: when it comes. Well, what I've heard, Michael, over the
Speaker 1: years from people I know that work in the sports
Speaker 1: gambing instruges that when they see something that's red flag,
Speaker 1: they will contact the NBA or the NFL. There's too
Speaker 1: much money, there's awkward bets being placed on a game,
Speaker 1: and we hear the term circling the game, taking the
Speaker 1: game off the board. The the interesting wrinkle to this
Speaker 1: to me, Michaels, a amateur gambler, is that when you
Speaker 1: have it everywhere, you can bet a little bit, you know.
Speaker 1: The the argument with Vegas was that that was controlled
Speaker 1: in Nevada, and if there was too much money coming
Speaker 1: in in the legal sports betting, they take a game
Speaker 1: off the board. But there is a path where you
Speaker 1: could make a lot of small bets. It would be
Speaker 1: a pain in the behind, but you can make a
Speaker 1: lot of small bets nationally in Tennessee and New Jersey
Speaker 1: and Colorado and and do it that way. It's a
Speaker 1: lot more work. Though, it's a lot more work. But
Speaker 1: the sports league, if they are in business, Michaels, you
Speaker 1: said it. With these you know, these gambling these are
Speaker 1: some of them have partnerships. They almost have no choice
Speaker 1: but to add a compliance officer, right, I mean, that's
Speaker 1: that's going to happen there. If you are in the
Speaker 1: compliance business, you're going to have game ful employment in
Speaker 1: sports wagering, right. I mean, this is gonna be a
Speaker 1: boom talent, a boom business. But look at look at
Speaker 1: all the sports scandals of the last couple of years.
Speaker 1: You know, every time we found about found out about
Speaker 1: these things. They always came from the outside, didn't it.
Speaker 1: And the league always appeared flat footed and they were like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what happened? We had no idea about this? So,
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I think they'll talk a good game.
Speaker 1: They always do. But you know, to your point about
Speaker 1: the best watch strokes they have are in Vegas themselves.
Speaker 1: The wise guys know when the lines are moving, The
Speaker 1: wise guys know when something is up. They'll be the
Speaker 1: first ones to alert the league's you know, to check
Speaker 1: out this game or that referee or that official, because
Speaker 1: they know anybody, and they don't want to lose money.
Speaker 1: That's that's to lose money. That's the whole point. Of it.
Speaker 1: This is the golden goose for them, you know. Uh,
Speaker 1: but you know, I really think that the league's you know,
Speaker 1: they're all talk about this stuff. I mean, yeah, you
Speaker 1: know that they're gonna have some XFBR or X, you know,
Speaker 1: Deputy commissioner of the New York City Police Department. And
Speaker 1: they sound good, but you know what I mean, they're
Speaker 1: always caught flat foot, and they're always caught by surprise,
Speaker 1: and they always apologize later on, but it never seems
Speaker 1: to be them that it covers the undoing. They're the
Speaker 1: ones who cleaned up the mess afterwards. Michael, With the
Speaker 1: Eastern and Western Conference playoffs underway with the Clippers and
Speaker 1: Sons and Bucks and Hawks, um, what have you seen
Speaker 1: just in terms of the overall ratings with the NBAM
Speaker 1: do do you anticipate a huge slide? Do you think, like, hey,
Speaker 1: these are fresh faces that are out there on the court,
Speaker 1: and it's an opportunity for the NBA to promote these kids.
Speaker 1: I think you just hit the nail on the head.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go counter here. I think it's great for
Speaker 1: the NBA to have some fresh faces. Do you realize
Speaker 1: this is the first time in a decade We've had
Speaker 1: an NBA Finals where we haven't had lebrono stuff, you know.
Speaker 1: So I would argue a couple of years ago we
Speaker 1: had Golden State Warriors fatigue, and I would argue that,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's point, even though lebron Is is
Speaker 1: a great, uh attraction, people have lebron fatigue. He's also
Speaker 1: a very polarizing UM athlete at this time with you know,
Speaker 1: his political stances. So I mean, I think it's a
Speaker 1: great opportunity for the NBA to get out there. I think, uh,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, having fans in the stands
Speaker 1: is an amazing thing. I mean, if you look at
Speaker 1: these games compared for the bubble games, it's two different things. Uh.
Speaker 1: You know, there's nothing like the excitement of having the
Speaker 1: crowd literally on top of the court at an at
Speaker 1: an NBA game and it's the best seat in the house.
Speaker 1: And now that it's back, I think that the rating
Speaker 1: is gonna be pretty good. Well, And I want to
Speaker 1: ask you about that, Michael, because I get these stories
Speaker 1: that come out and you're in the sports business world.
Speaker 1: You're a perfect guy to ask these And I work
Speaker 1: in radio, so I know, how about spinning ratings in radio.
Speaker 1: I know how that game works, but it seems like
Speaker 1: a lot of that's going on in the NBA because
Speaker 1: you read one story and it's the ratings are up
Speaker 1: thirty four percent for the NBA playoffs, and then you
Speaker 1: read another story it's like, well, actually, compared to three
Speaker 1: years ago, the NBA has lost twenty five percent of
Speaker 1: their audience. So what is the truth here, Michael, Well,
Speaker 1: the truth is often hard to decipher because there's lies,
Speaker 1: there's damn lies, and there's sports ratings. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: as working you would say, you know, every time you
Speaker 1: get a ratings release from a network, you've got to
Speaker 1: parts it like you're reading Pravda something, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, because they're going to work those numbers to
Speaker 1: make them, you know what I mean, seem as positive
Speaker 1: as it can. For example, you know, the NBA and
Speaker 1: other leagues this year are going to compare their ratings
Speaker 1: to the bubble, uh and the pandemic when ratings are down,
Speaker 1: but they're not going to compare them to two thousand nineteen,
Speaker 1: which is the last prepontimity. So that's that's an obvious
Speaker 1: one that that they use. But I also think that
Speaker 1: to your point, I've never seen such a fascination with
Speaker 1: sports TV ratings. And I've been doing this a long time.
Speaker 1: I mean, we used to do a chart in USA
Speaker 1: today it was like this thing just for geeks and nerds,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, like myself, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, who cared about this? But nobody else cared.
Speaker 1: Now everybody's to dicussing it on sports radio, everybody discussing
Speaker 1: it on TV. And I think the reason for that
Speaker 1: is because everybody is trying to use ratings to prove
Speaker 1: their point. If you're of the opinion that the NBA
Speaker 1: getting political has hurt their ratings, then you're going to
Speaker 1: seize on their ratings, you know what I mean, as
Speaker 1: a way to basche Lebron James and the league taking
Speaker 1: stances on politics. If you're of the opinion that, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, the NBA being political has no
Speaker 1: impact on ratings, then you're gonna see some the positive
Speaker 1: ratings this year has proved to your points. So I
Speaker 1: think politics has kind of infected the ratings game, and
Speaker 1: everybody is using ratings to tee you off to a
Speaker 1: fairly well on whatever pet cause they have. Be sure
Speaker 1: to catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays
Speaker 1: at two am Eastern eleven pm Pacific. Be sure to
Speaker 1: catch live editions of The Ben Maller Show weekdays at
Speaker 1: two am eastern eleven pm Pacific on Fox Sports Radio
Speaker 1: and the I Heart Radio app. Michael's said, I think
Speaker 1: the other thing, maybe for some of the other league's
Speaker 1: is just the branding purposes, right, because Major League Baseball
Speaker 1: cutting off games for uh, you know, with ESPN the
Speaker 1: other Sunday night Baseball telecasts and what they do in
Speaker 1: the middle of the week. Same thing with the NHL
Speaker 1: going from the NBC platform and obviously now to USA
Speaker 1: and ESPN splitting those packages up. I think the other
Speaker 1: things we just look at it because you know, Ben
Speaker 1: and I talked about in the regular during the NFL season,
Speaker 1: it's like top fifty programs in the United States in
Speaker 1: and over thirty of them are Week one or Week
Speaker 1: seven or Week eight in the NFL, and the other
Speaker 1: ones college football Obama and l s U or Baman
Speaker 1: Auburn or something like that. Yeah, it's you know, the
Speaker 1: NFL is so dominant when it comes to TV. It's
Speaker 1: not just the premier sports property, it's premiere entertainment property.
Speaker 1: It just kicks the hell out of everything. You know,
Speaker 1: scripted dramas, reality TV, you name it. It's like the
Speaker 1: NFL went out of business, what would we watch? But
Speaker 1: you know, I am not one of these, uh you know,
Speaker 1: optimistic as well. You know things are gonna go completely
Speaker 1: after No. I think the pandemic changed a lot of things.
Speaker 1: The pandemic change viewing habits. I think people learned how
Speaker 1: to live without sports in some cases. I think purple
Speaker 1: people learned how to watch different things. And I think
Speaker 1: we're still seeing, you know, the lingering effects of that.
Speaker 1: I'm hoping it will get back to pre pandemic levels,
Speaker 1: but I'm not as confident about that as anybody as
Speaker 1: some of these other people are. What's the business practice
Speaker 1: for you guys at front office sports? Like, how are
Speaker 1: you guys approaching these things? I do see that you
Speaker 1: guys bring on a lot of interns along the way
Speaker 1: to to help provide them with some kind of platform too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: our whole purpose, the whole platform has been growth. I
Speaker 1: mean I started there two years ago and we were
Speaker 1: a small start up, but you know, we broke a
Speaker 1: lot of news along the way, and we punch away
Speaker 1: above our weight when it comes to to coverage, you know,
Speaker 1: against the big guys, and we have just been growing
Speaker 1: by leaps and bounds. Uh, you know, it's a six
Speaker 1: billion dollar business. I think I'll competitor, you know, our
Speaker 1: main competitor, which is Sports Business Journal. You had to
Speaker 1: feel to themselves for a while. And I think everybody
Speaker 1: loves a little bit of a horse race, right, everybody
Speaker 1: loves a challenger. You know, if you've got coked, you
Speaker 1: want pepsis. And you know, now you've not only got
Speaker 1: us in the field, but you've got sport Eco. So
Speaker 1: this whole idea of you know, sports business and this
Speaker 1: whole coverage, and you know Ben knows this as well
Speaker 1: as anybody has just exploded. It's taken on a life
Speaker 1: of its own. Yeah, it's been. It's been crazy the
Speaker 1: last the last couple of years. For sure. I want
Speaker 1: to go back. I want to go back to to baseball.
Speaker 1: Though for a second, because he you mentioned how fans
Speaker 1: uh embrace not having sports A hundred and thirty four
Speaker 1: days we went. Not that I kept track Michael without
Speaker 1: a professional sporting event, as I was doing sports radio
Speaker 1: every night. But but it's not about me so major
Speaker 1: League Baseball having a likely nuclear off season after the
Speaker 1: World Series, the labor deal is up, and there's a
Speaker 1: lot of my people in baseball say it's it's they're
Speaker 1: not going to have a regular start to the two season.
Speaker 1: And every time one of these things happens, people say, well,
Speaker 1: that's gonna be it. That's gonna be the end. I
Speaker 1: don't think it's gonna be end of baseball. But how
Speaker 1: much more damage can be done? Kind of paint the
Speaker 1: picture if you will, Michael on what that would mean
Speaker 1: a work stoppage at the started next baseball season? Uh,
Speaker 1: you know, no no sports has sport or no league
Speaker 1: has done more to shoot itself in the foot than
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball. I mean, you know there should be
Speaker 1: an intervention sometimes with this league the way you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, they try to self destructive. If that happens,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, they're gonna, you know, throw
Speaker 1: away all the momentum they've they've had. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: they're just coming out of the Astros thing the garbage cans,
Speaker 1: and then you know you're gonna have this this year.
Speaker 1: You've got the doctored baseball. I mean that's old school.
Speaker 1: I mean, we're going back to Gaylord Perry and the
Speaker 1: spit ball here. Uh So, I mean, I think, you know,
Speaker 1: baseball has got to get a couple of years under
Speaker 1: its belt where it's got nothing but good stories. You
Speaker 1: know what I mean that the cheating turns people off.
Speaker 1: Uh you know, I mean a work stop, a work
Speaker 1: stoppage would be horrible because you know, baseball more than
Speaker 1: ever has become kind of a local sport. And you know,
Speaker 1: if you if you have a work stopping, boy, that's
Speaker 1: gonna be trouble. Yeah. And Michael also following that up
Speaker 1: a story within the last month or so. Uh, some
Speaker 1: of the guys on the Mets and some of the
Speaker 1: other players around baseball, we're throwing out lobbying accusations that
Speaker 1: the reason baseball changes, that the ball actually changes, the
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball corporate changes the ball is to artificially
Speaker 1: keep salaries down in free agency. That there are players
Speaker 1: who actually believe this, that it's you know, to me,
Speaker 1: it seems outrageous. Uh, Like, I don't think the baseball
Speaker 1: is that bright. If they are that right, why is
Speaker 1: Mookie Bets in Fernando to tease and all these guys
Speaker 1: getting these massive contracts. Explained to me your perspective on
Speaker 1: why so many baseball there's more than just a couple
Speaker 1: have said that there's something to that conspiracy. Yeah, because
Speaker 1: they're dumb. I mean, I believe that, you know, Petel
Speaker 1: Fonso's theory on the baseball about as much as I
Speaker 1: believe that story about the weasel or the raccoon or
Speaker 1: whatever in the thing. I mean, the simple fact remains
Speaker 1: that professional athletes can never look at themselves in the
Speaker 1: eye and you know, blame themselves. I mean, we were
Speaker 1: growing up, you know, batting average was valued, Uh you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. The ball was put in play.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know the ones we adored in the
Speaker 1: players we follow, you know, the George Brett's and the
Speaker 1: Rock Cruise, you know who were able to hit three forties.
Speaker 1: Now these players, you know or either want to hit
Speaker 1: home runs. Will they strike out? Well, that's on them.
Speaker 1: And you know what I mean. And if the pitchers
Speaker 1: adopting the ball, and I believe that they are, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean with this new Tiki tax stuff,
Speaker 1: then that's on them. That's on the players. That's not
Speaker 1: our major League Baseball or is some you know, secret
Speaker 1: chemist in a lab somewhere or an underground bunker doctoring
Speaker 1: the baseballs. I mean, you gotta be kidding, Michael. And
Speaker 1: we haven't seen we've seen this, you know. It seems
Speaker 1: like every decade, right. If it's not steroids, it's the
Speaker 1: trash cans and the videoography that was taking place a
Speaker 1: handful of years ago, and the doctor of the baseball.
Speaker 1: And the reality is that people are still gonna come
Speaker 1: out to watch the games. The people are still gonna
Speaker 1: be fans of the game. There's nothing that can be done.
Speaker 1: But do you think in the end, maybe Major League
Speaker 1: Baseball says, hey, we need to have a new guy
Speaker 1: that leads this this organization, this league, and not round
Speaker 1: Rob Manfred. You know, I I don't think we're at
Speaker 1: that point with Manfred. You know, I think Manfred has
Speaker 1: done a solid job. What the game needs is action.
Speaker 1: The game needs action. I mean, I was at the
Speaker 1: Yankee game with my family on Sunday and the Yankees
Speaker 1: had three hits. They won the game, you know, thanks
Speaker 1: to you know, Gary Sanchez double. But it's just not
Speaker 1: an act, you know what I mean. The shifts and
Speaker 1: and the rise of these incredible pitchers has turned the
Speaker 1: game into kind of a drag where you know, it's
Speaker 1: nothing but a strikeouts and fly balls and pitching changes
Speaker 1: nineteen Pitching changes a game. And I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you need a new commission as
Speaker 1: much as you need a sport that really grabs you
Speaker 1: by the throat and really, you know it says, wow,
Speaker 1: this game is fun. I mean, you know, you guys
Speaker 1: mentioned Mookie Bets a minute ago. I mean having players
Speaker 1: like who were so exciting and so dynamic, you know,
Speaker 1: watching him run the bases or that throw he made
Speaker 1: from the Anfael, That's what the game needs. Bring us
Speaker 1: back the baseball we love, which is makes some contact,
Speaker 1: get some runners on base, have some tag outs, have
Speaker 1: steep stealing bases. You know, let's have the action that
Speaker 1: we fell in love with. Mike, I got some bad
Speaker 1: news for you. Don't think the Yankees are gonna have
Speaker 1: any of that for the season for you. So I
Speaker 1: think you're right, But you know, having some pressed with Sanchez,
Speaker 1: I mean, his his swing looks good. And I just
Speaker 1: said the Yankees a lopsided I mean, you have a
Speaker 1: team that's you know, relied for eighty years on left
Speaker 1: handed hitting, and you know, they're right handed hitting team.
Speaker 1: And you know, besides DJ Lmeo, you know what I mean,
Speaker 1: they have no contact hitters and they have no idea
Speaker 1: how to man you facture runs. I mean the Yankees
Speaker 1: are a perfect example of what's wrong with baseball. I mean,
Speaker 1: you see the Yankees moving anybody over, and you see
Speaker 1: the Yankee steeling base. You obvious see the Yankees creator run.
Speaker 1: Now you know they're always waiting for you know, John
Speaker 1: Garland to him one out. So they really are in,
Speaker 1: you know, in a capsule form definition of what's wrong
Speaker 1: with the game today. Yeah, the three true outcomes right,
Speaker 1: strike out, walk, home run. That's nothing else, don't don't,
Speaker 1: don't hit behind a run, or don't do anything. Michael,
Speaker 1: I really, well you have you. I want to bring
Speaker 1: up the story that I want to get your perspective
Speaker 1: on Lamar Jackson because he doesn't have an agent. He's
Speaker 1: about to sign we think, a mega, mega extension. It
Speaker 1: could be the biggest contract in NFL history with the Ravens.
Speaker 1: And I've heard some whispers that you know, this is
Speaker 1: not this is not going overwhelm the agent community, per se,
Speaker 1: because if he if he actually pulls this off and
Speaker 1: and you know this is seen as a foundational blow
Speaker 1: if you will, to agents because they because of the commission.
Speaker 1: But explain to me how concerned or if I'm right
Speaker 1: on this is what I'm hearing is correct, how concerned
Speaker 1: the agents are that Lamar is doing this without representation.
Speaker 1: I'd be very very concerned if I was an agent.
Speaker 1: I mean there was a Seattle, uh Seattle seahawk explinback
Speaker 1: who did the same thing a couple of season ago,
Speaker 1: whose name escapes me, Bobby something or other, and he
Speaker 1: basically negotiators on the only did it well yeah, and
Speaker 1: it was kind of like everybody afterwards said, well, he
Speaker 1: didn't have an agent, you know, he didn't get taken right,
Speaker 1: he did pretty well for himself. So it can be done.
Speaker 1: And once you demonstrate that it can be done without
Speaker 1: giving up that little slice to the agent, you know
Speaker 1: more players are gonna do it. Uh. So you know,
Speaker 1: to your point, I am very concerned. I am on
Speaker 1: red alert. If I'm an agent, I am giving you know,
Speaker 1: Tom Cruise level comfort and service to to my clients,
Speaker 1: you know, showing up in Phoenix for game or whatever
Speaker 1: he did uh in the movie. And I'm trying to
Speaker 1: keep my clients as happy as I can. How much
Speaker 1: do agents get in the NF I don't baseball. I
Speaker 1: know more about baseball, But in the NFL, what cut
Speaker 1: do those guys typically get? Is at four percent? Is
Speaker 1: at three percent? And what have you heard? Depending on
Speaker 1: the agent? I mean obviously you know, if you're your
Speaker 1: Ton Condon or something like that, you know you can
Speaker 1: get a lot more. But I heard, uh, you know
Speaker 1: a while back then it was in the area of
Speaker 1: around three percent. But you know, it depends, Uh, it
Speaker 1: depends on you know what I mean, how powerful you
Speaker 1: are as an agent, how what your reputation is, like,
Speaker 1: what are the clients you have? I mean, so many
Speaker 1: things in sports, and I think we've all learned this
Speaker 1: happened because athletes know each other. What what do athletes do?
Speaker 1: You know? I mean, use my agent, Joe, use my
Speaker 1: agent Jane. That's how you know they really get their
Speaker 1: clients by other athletes introducing them to people who they trust.
Speaker 1: And you know, to me that that trust level and
Speaker 1: that that familiarity is more important than the percentage interest.
Speaker 1: And as far as one one last thing on the
Speaker 1: broad will go back to the broadcasting thing. Michael I
Speaker 1: I've said, I've seen several stories here recently that the
Speaker 1: hot commodity. I don't know if I believe this or not.
Speaker 1: In Sports NFL commentaries r G three Robert Griffin the Third,
Speaker 1: I is this a story that was planted by his agent?
Speaker 1: Is this legitimate? Is there a bidding war between major
Speaker 1: broadcast companies for Robert Griffin the third explain that to me,
Speaker 1: I think r G three is a hot commodity. Eat.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know if he's you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, the hottest thing since Tony Romo, or you
Speaker 1: know what I mean, if you know, Fox and ESPN
Speaker 1: and go on it going to go out of business
Speaker 1: bidding against each other for him. I mean, it's pretty normal.
Speaker 1: You know, every year, as you know, there's you know
Speaker 1: a new list of players and coaches who try to
Speaker 1: enter broadcasting, and some of them give great auditions and
Speaker 1: some of them stink. And he gave apparently a great audition.
Speaker 1: But you know, RG three still wants to play, so
Speaker 1: you know, there's no guarantee he's even gonna go into
Speaker 1: the broadcast boot. But you know, I think it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, uh, you know, Major League Sports. You know,
Speaker 1: we're always looking for the new guy, the new hot star,
Speaker 1: you know, somebody who could come in and sort of,
Speaker 1: you know, change the world the way Romo did. I mean,
Speaker 1: I remember when Romo started. You know, there were other
Speaker 1: people you know, including me, who are like and I
Speaker 1: will own this for like, how can you get this
Speaker 1: guy a complete rookie? You know what I mean? The
Speaker 1: number one job? What are you out of your mind? CBS?
Speaker 1: And sure enough you proved me and a lot of
Speaker 1: people wrong. So I think r G three is a
Speaker 1: legit contender for a job in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: some of the hoot nanny, you know, I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that is hypen absolutely. Hey, uh, Michael, thank
Speaker 1: you and again promote. The website is a great website.
Speaker 1: You're interested in the business of sports. It's Front Office Sports.
Speaker 1: You're all over Twitter. How can people find your Michael?
Speaker 1: How can people follow you? Well? Thank you again for
Speaker 1: the invite. Uh. We are at front office Sports dot com.
Speaker 1: We covered the intersection of sports and business and my
Speaker 1: Twitter handle is m McCarthy rev. Alright, m McCarthy reb.
Speaker 1: Very simple, All right, thanks, We have a great weekend. Michael.
Speaker 1: Thank you guys, Thanks so much.