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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey you welcome to Weird House Cinema.

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Speaker 3: This is Rob Lamb and I am Joe McCormick. And

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Speaker 3: today on Weird House Cinema we're going to be talking

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Speaker 3: about the nineteen sixty seven British sci fi horror film

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Speaker 3: quator Mass and the Pit, starring Andrew Keer, Barbara Shelley,

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Speaker 3: James Donald, and Julian Glover. And I'm going to say

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Speaker 3: right at the top, as always, we will get into

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Speaker 3: some pretty granular detail about the plot. We always do

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Speaker 3: that in these episodes, and today's movie in particular is

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Speaker 3: one that has some great mysteries and surprises throughout. So

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Speaker 3: if you would like to watch it without any spoilers,

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Speaker 3: I think this is a good candidate for that, you

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Speaker 3: should pause here and check the movie out first. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, this is one that I was fortunate enough to

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Speaker 2: go into cold back when I think it was in college.

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Speaker 2: I think I caught it on American Movie, which also

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Speaker 2: showed Hammer hors I five Films y American. Yeah. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know anything about it going into it and was just,

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Speaker 2: you know, thoroughly pleased with where the movie took me.

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Speaker 3: Just recently, we've had several listeners suggest that we cover

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Speaker 3: various quater Mass films. I think in the last Listener

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Speaker 3: Mail episode we had somebody saying that they wanted us

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Speaker 3: to do quater Mass too, and in true weird house fashion,

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Speaker 3: we were approaching them out of order. From what I

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Speaker 3: can tell, this is the third feature film in the

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Speaker 3: quater Mass series. It's a sequel to The quater Mass

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Speaker 3: Experiment from nineteen fifty five and quater Mass Two from

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Speaker 3: fifty seven. Is that also your understanding?

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Speaker 2: Rob? Correct? Though, it's though it's a little weird with

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Speaker 2: the quater Mass films because the quater Mass films were

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Speaker 2: all remakes of the original quater Mass TV program. So

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Speaker 2: you had fifty three's The quater Mass Experiment remade as

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Speaker 2: the film of the same name in fifty five, and

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Speaker 2: then TV's quater Mass two remade as a film in

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Speaker 2: fifty seven.

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Speaker 3: And indeed, quator.

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Speaker 2: Mass in the Pit was also a tea and when

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Speaker 2: I say TV, it's not quite a TV show, more

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Speaker 2: of like a limited TV mini series, sort of a situation.

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Speaker 2: Quator Mass in the Pit ran on TV fifty eight

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Speaker 2: through fifty nine and then was remade as Today's nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty seven film, and was.

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Speaker 3: All of this originally written by Nigel Neil.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Yes, he was the creator of the character. He

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Speaker 2: wrote all the screenplays for the TV series and then

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Speaker 2: the films that were adapted from them.

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Speaker 3: Here.

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Speaker 2: There was also a nineteen seventy nine quator Mass four

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Speaker 2: part TV series that was recut into the film, The

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Speaker 2: quator Mass Conclusion the same year. Much later on, in

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Speaker 2: two thousand and five, Jason Fleming starting a live TV

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Speaker 2: remake of the original series alongside David Tennant and Martin Gatis,

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Speaker 2: though I don't think Neil had anything to do with

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Speaker 2: that aside from just being credited as the creator, and

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Speaker 2: you know, they adapted it from his original screenplay.

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Speaker 3: I've never seen that, but from the words you just said,

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Speaker 3: it sounds like a more serious version of Doctor Who. Energy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one way to sort of look at at

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Speaker 2: quator Mass here, and I'm to understand that the original

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Speaker 2: quater Mass TV shows had very much had Doctor Who

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Speaker 2: production values. The movie we're watching here today is definitely

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Speaker 2: a step up from that, though also not quite on

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Speaker 2: the same level as like You're some of your bigger

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Speaker 2: special effects pictures of the time period those we'll discuss.

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Speaker 2: I think it does quite well in many respects, and

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Speaker 2: in terms of comparing it to Doctor Who. I mean,

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Speaker 2: there's ultimately a lot of shared DNA. Whenever you look

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Speaker 2: at at any kind of like British film or TV project,

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Speaker 2: people are gonna have involvement with the Doctor Who franchise

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Speaker 2: over the many decades. Aside from that, I would say

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Speaker 2: there's not a lot to compare Doctor Who to quator

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Speaker 2: Mass because Doctor Who, of course, is a lot wilder

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Speaker 2: in its sci fi. It's more of like out there

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Speaker 2: in time and space. Quator Mass is seems to be

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Speaker 2: morecerned with the immediate situation here on Earth and various

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Speaker 2: cosmic threats that emerge.

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Speaker 3: Yes, that's right. I think Doctor Who is more fantastical

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Speaker 3: and more humorous. So of course Doctor Who does go

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Speaker 3: to some dark places, but it generally has a lot

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Speaker 3: more silliness and humor levined throughout. Whereas the impression I

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Speaker 3: get about quator Mass, certainly from this film and from

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Speaker 3: what I know of the other ones though I haven't

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Speaker 3: seen them yet, is that it's more grounded, more serious,

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Speaker 3: a little bit more hard science fiction, though it does

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Speaker 3: go to some quite silly places in terms of like

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Speaker 3: what they thought you could do with technology in this

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Speaker 3: movie and stuff. I love the machine that you put

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Speaker 3: a helmet on your head and it projects your thoughts

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Speaker 3: on a TV screen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, definitely definitely strong sci fi here, and is

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Speaker 2: I believe Joe Dantek pointed out in a little extra

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Speaker 2: he did for the Screen Factory Blu Ray for this film.

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Speaker 2: This film has a lot in common with some of

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Speaker 2: It has a lot of the intellectual edge that that

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Speaker 2: you find in very bits of sci fi literature, for

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Speaker 2: example Arthur C. Clark's Childhood's End and so forth, and

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Speaker 2: these of course there are ideas that have been It

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Speaker 2: ended up being used multiple times over the decades in

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Speaker 2: sci fi film and sci fi storytelling, but earlier on

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Speaker 2: they were a lot more fresh.

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Speaker 3: It really is that kind of science fiction that is

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Speaker 3: about ideas. Yes, I feel like you can really see

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Speaker 3: the influence of this movie on other horror films that

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Speaker 3: would come later now, And it's funny because, again with

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Speaker 3: the theme of seeing things out of order, I think

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Speaker 3: I saw more of the movies that were influenced by

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Speaker 3: this movie before I saw it itself. For example, I

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Speaker 3: can absolutely see a lot of quator Mass in the

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Speaker 3: Pit in John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness, that atmospheric feeling

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Speaker 3: of doom, something about the ancient past that is now

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Speaker 3: reaching out to us in threatening ways and sort of

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Speaker 3: suggesting that our understanding of what we are in our

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Speaker 3: place in the cosmos might be totally wrong. And also

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Speaker 3: this inventive braiding of scientific themes, like hard science themes

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Speaker 3: with themes of supernatural occultism. So like quator Mass in

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Speaker 3: the Pit is a movie that proposes alternative theories of

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Speaker 3: human origins. It has alien invasions, so that's the stuff

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Speaker 3: often of science fiction, but it's also got a common

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Speaker 3: explanation for the existence of telekinesis, haunted houses, and belief

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Speaker 3: in satan.

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Speaker 2: That's right, yeah, yeah, And yet it does such a

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Speaker 2: fine job with all of this. It doesn't feel like

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Speaker 2: it's just grabbing things and throwing them at the wall

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Speaker 2: to see what sticks. It's a film that does an

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Speaker 2: absolutely fantastic job of laying out a believable procedural response

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Speaker 2: to an abnormal and increasingly otherworldly invent It's pretty straight laced,

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Speaker 2: cerebral sci fi horror film with I think fantastic shades

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Speaker 2: of cosmic horror, as you were alluding to, you know,

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Speaker 2: the ultimately the ideas that are discovered are you know,

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Speaker 2: they're tantalizing, but they completely turn the characters understanding of

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Speaker 2: humanity's place in the cosmosci its head.

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Speaker 3: Should we listen to a little bit of trailer audio?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let's listen. I think this is going to be

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Speaker 2: from the UK trailer. But the the US trailer was

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Speaker 2: released in the US as part of like a double

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Speaker 2: feature with the title five Million Years to Earth. That

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Speaker 2: one does have a fun beginning where it says, the

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Speaker 2: scenes you're about to see are more incredible than anything

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Speaker 2: today's science or fiction ever imagined. But let's let's let's

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Speaker 2: hear a little bit from the UK trailer.

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Speaker 4: Who were they running from? What have they seen? Whom

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Speaker 4: do they fear? There are five million answers to these questions,

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Speaker 4: and every one of them is a five million years

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Speaker 4: old spills into our time to make two worlds collide.

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Speaker 4: What is happening here and now can affect the next

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Speaker 4: five million years. They feel it, they see it. The

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Speaker 4: archaeologist who digs back into the past to on Earth

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Speaker 4: more horror than the human mind canparere quait a mess

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Speaker 4: A scientist who comes face to face with five million

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Speaker 4: years of terror y, it's forever. She's the wick. She

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Speaker 4: can see into the pit and knows that terrifying truth.

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Speaker 4: All he can see into the pit, but he will

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Speaker 4: not believe what he sees. May well call me what? Well?

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Speaker 3: Them?

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Speaker 4: These are the creatures, They were alive life. You descend

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Speaker 4: into the pit of hell as you share their horror. Listen,

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Speaker 4: I'm advising you all to leave. That made me great?

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Speaker 2: Dat all right? Well, if you would like to watch

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Speaker 2: quator Mass in the Pit aka five million Years to

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Speaker 2: Earth yourself, This one is, as far as I can tell,

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Speaker 2: currently difficult or impossible to stream in the US, but

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Speaker 2: is available in the UK for streaming either way. The

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Speaker 2: physical Blu ray from Screen Factory is widely available and

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Speaker 2: is a terrific presentation of the film with loads of

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Speaker 2: insightful extras. Joe, I believe you own this disc and

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Speaker 2: this is the one that I rin in from Atlanta's

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Speaker 2: own video drum.

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Speaker 3: I've got the disc, yeah, and it's packed with extra stuff.

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Speaker 3: I really wanted to get into a bunch of the

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Speaker 3: commentaries and docks and stuff before today but ended up

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Speaker 3: not having time this week. Sometimes it just works out

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Speaker 3: like that. But yeah, it looks like it's just just

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Speaker 3: packed with great stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't have time to go through all of

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Speaker 2: it either. But there's a little bit with Joe Dante,

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Speaker 2: and there's a great interview view from several years back

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Speaker 2: with Julian Glover. He has a lot of cool little

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Speaker 2: insights about his experiences with the film and the various

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Speaker 2: people he worked with, including a story about how he

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Speaker 2: grew a mustache for this character. Yes, but the middle

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Speaker 2: part of his mustache was like too blonde, and so

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Speaker 2: they kept having to die it to make it as

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Speaker 2: dark as the rest of the mustache.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 2: And then and then when they were filming, he would

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Speaker 2: sweat and the dye would like drip down and dribble

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Speaker 2: into his mouth, and he didn't like that. So like,

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Speaker 2: over the course of a weekend, he was like, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to take care of this myself, and he got

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Speaker 2: like permanent dye and died the center part of his mustache.

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Speaker 2: But then it was way darker than the rest of

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Speaker 2: his mustache and made him look like he had a

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Speaker 2: Hitler mustache. Oh no, And so they like he had

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Speaker 2: to come in like on Monday or whenever when the

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Speaker 2: shoot was resuming and just had to apologize to the

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Speaker 2: hair and makeup people. He was like, sorry, mess it

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Speaker 2: all up, You're going to have to fix me again.

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Speaker 2: So then they had to lighten that part of the

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Speaker 2: mustache for the remainder of the shoot.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's got to be one of the worst self

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Speaker 3: grooming mishap stories I've ever heard. Accidental Hitler mustache.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I love little tidbuts like that from that

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Speaker 2: you get in these extras. All right, well, let's get

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Speaker 2: into the connections on this one. We'll start at the

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Speaker 2: top with the director. It's roy Ward Baker who lived

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixteen through twenty ten. British director who made a

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Speaker 2: number of films in his native UK as well as

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Speaker 2: in the US. These include nineteen fifty threes Inferno, that's

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Speaker 2: a three D film, nineteen fifty Eight's a Night to

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Speaker 2: Remember that's a Titanic movie. And then he did several

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Speaker 2: Hammer pictures and this is generally held to be the

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Speaker 2: best picture he did for Hammer.

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Speaker 3: Oh have we not mentioned already that this is a

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Speaker 3: Hammer film?

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Speaker 2: I can't remember if we said it on Mike or not.

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Speaker 2: But yes, this is definitely a Hammer picture. Though this

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Speaker 2: is I guess, a good place to remind everyone that

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Speaker 2: we have lots of different sorts of Hammer pictures. They're

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Speaker 2: not all horror, and they're not all Gothic carr they're

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Speaker 2: not all vampire pictures, even though even though those are

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Speaker 2: some of the most famous and the most beloved Hammer pictures.

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Speaker 3: I love a lot of Hammer movies. We've covered some

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Speaker 3: Hammer movies on Weird House before Love Seeing. You know,

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Speaker 3: Peter Cushing is Van Helsing, Christopher Lee is Dracula, all

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Speaker 3: that sort of stuff. I love the sort of trashier

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Speaker 3: ones they started making in the seventies. That's good too.

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Speaker 3: I would say, I think this might be, just in

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Speaker 3: a straightforward way, the best Hammer film I have seen.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's generally held to be the best one

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Speaker 2: he directed, that's for sure, And yeah, it could be,

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Speaker 2: and I think it's very reasonable to put it at

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Speaker 2: least in consideration for best Hammer picture. It's just so solid.

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Speaker 2: The other ones that Baker did. Let's see, we have

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Speaker 2: nineteen sixty nine's Moon zero two, which MST three K

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Speaker 2: fans know this one. It is a fun mod space adventure,

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Speaker 2: so it is not serious at all, but I highly

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Speaker 2: recommend that one. There's nineteen seventies The Vampire Lovers, as

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Speaker 2: well as Scars of Dracula from the same year. Then

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Speaker 2: we have seventy one's Doctor Jekyl and Sister Hide, as

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Speaker 2: well as the seventy four Hammer Shaw Brothers co production

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Speaker 2: The Legend of the Golden Vampires was a co director

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Speaker 2: on that. I've never seen this one. It's blong, but

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Speaker 2: on my list because I love Hammer films, I love

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Speaker 2: Shaw Brothers pictures. I'm to understand. It's audacious, but also

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Speaker 2: a clear clash of styles, so it's still on the list.

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Speaker 2: I could be nudged in the direction of watching it, though.

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Speaker 3: I think I have put that one on years ago

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Speaker 3: while I was cooking, and it didn't really pay a

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Speaker 3: lot of attention to it. But it looked wild.

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Speaker 2: It's just a wild idea, and sometimes wild ideas don't

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Speaker 2: necessarily come together. I mean, it's audacious to think that

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Speaker 2: you would take these two distinct styles of filmmaking and

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Speaker 2: merge them together into something that fans of either would like.

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Speaker 2: But I don't know it has its following. He also

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Speaker 2: did some gothic horror films, for Amicus. He did Asylum

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Speaker 2: from seventy two and The Vault of Horror from seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and he was active as a director into the early nineties.

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Speaker 2: All right, coming back around to the writer here, Nigel

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Speaker 2: Neil has original story slash screenplay credit here. He lived

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Speaker 2: nineteen twenty two through two thousand and six, creator of

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Speaker 2: the Professor Bernard quator Mass franchise, with writing credits on

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Speaker 2: all of the original films and TV shows. The original

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Speaker 2: quator Mass series was his breakthrough and he made a

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Speaker 2: career writing mostly thrillers, horror and sci fi pictures and

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Speaker 2: TV projects. His other credits included nineteen sixties The Entertainer,

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Speaker 2: sixty four's First Men in the Moon and sixty six

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Speaker 2: as The Witches. He was an influence on such filmmakers

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Speaker 2: and authors as Stephen King, John Carpenter, and Dan O'Bannon.

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Speaker 2: In fact, Neil wrote an early draft of the Halloween

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Speaker 2: three season of the Witch script, so I think some

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Speaker 2: of his ideas remain there, but he ends up uncredited.

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Speaker 2: And he also wrote the novel versions of the quator

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Speaker 2: Mass adventures.

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Speaker 3: You listed Some authors and filmmakers are known fans of Neil,

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Speaker 3: but from what I understand he is more generally kind

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Speaker 3: of a horror writers writer. A lot of like sci

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Speaker 3: fi and horror writers and people who worked in TV

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Speaker 3: in the movies really look up for him, look up

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Speaker 3: to him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, especially folks who came up. I've seen a

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Speaker 2: lot of people that came up, like through the BBC

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Speaker 2: system back in the day, really admired his work. So

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Speaker 2: somehow the actor playing quator Mass here doesn't have top billing,

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Speaker 2: which I mean, there are always, you know, reasons for

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. But I'm going to start with

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Speaker 2: the actor playing quator Mass because I feel like he's

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Speaker 2: your title care He's literally your title character.

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Speaker 3: We got to start with him.

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Speaker 2: Yes, So here, quator Mass is played by Andrew Ker,

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Speaker 2: who I believe you mentioned already. He lived nineteen twenty

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Speaker 2: six through nineteen ninety seven. So this is, yeah, our

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Speaker 2: chief protagonist, our problem solver. He is a UK aerospace scientist.

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Speaker 3: Though like a lot of scientist protagonists in movies of

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Speaker 3: this sort, he seems to have expertise outside of his dome.

296
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Speaker 3: Like he's not just he doesn't just know about rockets.

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Speaker 3: He seems to know a lot about I don't know,

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Speaker 3: paleontology and the paranormal and everything, like all kinds of stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but at the same time they don't portray him

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Speaker 2: as like a polymath who has you know, complete expertise

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Speaker 2: in everything. So he does seek out experts, that's true instance,

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Speaker 2: because he's like, oh, my Latin is terrible, so I

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Speaker 2: need somebody to translate this Latin. You know, I'm not

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Speaker 2: an anthropologist or a paleontologist, so I defer to you

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Speaker 2: that sort of thing. So Kire was an actor of stage,

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Speaker 2: screen and TV, with British film and TV credits going

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Speaker 2: back to around nineteen fifty. I believe his credits include

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Speaker 2: A Night to Remember, which we already mentioned, nineteen sixty

309
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Speaker 2: three's Cleopatra, and much later in his career nineteen ninety

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Speaker 2: five's Rob Roy, alongside numerous Hammer pictures. This is the

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Speaker 2: only time he played quator Mess but his other Hammer

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Speaker 2: credits are Pirates of Blood River from sixty two, Dracula

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Speaker 2: Prince of Darkness from sixty six, The Viking Queen sixty seven,

314
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Speaker 2: Zeppelin from seventy one, and Blood from the Mummy's Tomb

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Speaker 2: in seventy one.

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Speaker 3: I think Kier is quite good in this role. We

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Speaker 3: mentioned that quator Mass is a more serious character than

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Speaker 3: say the doctor in Doctor Who. It's a he doesn't

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Speaker 3: really get a lot of room to play in the movie.

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Speaker 3: He's you know, I think he only cracks like one

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Speaker 3: or two jokes the entire film. It's a very serious, straightforward,

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Speaker 3: down the middle roll. And so I think that's the

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Speaker 3: kind of thing that's hard to do because he doesn't

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Speaker 3: get to be all that expressive except in certain expressions

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Speaker 3: of like outrage and indignance when he's faced with the fools,

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Speaker 3: you know, the militaristic fools and the government who are

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Speaker 3: trying to throttle his you know, peaceful advancement of science

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Speaker 3: for his career. So, like, I guess he does get

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Speaker 3: a bit there, but I don't know. It's it's not

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Speaker 3: a role where there's a lot of room to play,

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Speaker 3: and yet he does quite well with it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right, he doesn't get any moments real whimsier humor,

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Speaker 2: or when they do occur, they're very slight. They're not

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Speaker 2: the driving force of the character. Yeah, all right, Now,

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Speaker 2: the top build actor was actually James Donald playing the

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Speaker 2: character doctor Ronnie. Ronnie is our cutting edge paleontologist who

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Speaker 2: is you know, he's all about the fossils, but he's

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Speaker 2: also all about like strapping things to people's heads and

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Speaker 2: so they can read their brain waves and see their thoughts.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I've got thoughts about that. James Donald as

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Speaker 3: Rony is he's a little bit Roddy McDowell and a

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Speaker 3: little bit Michael Palin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can see that. Yeah, yeah. So he lived

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Speaker 2: nineteen seventeen through nineteen ninety three. I was a Scottish actor.

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Speaker 2: He was considered something of an actor's actor at the time.

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Speaker 2: According to the Julian Glover interview. Like Glick, Glover just

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Speaker 2: really really loved his word. He loved all of the

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Speaker 2: actors he was working with and this and had very

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Speaker 2: nice things to say about them, but James Donald in particular.

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Speaker 2: So His credit credits include Role and such films as

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Speaker 2: fifty seven's The Bridge over the River Kwai, fifty eight's

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Speaker 2: The Vikings, and nineteen sixty three's The Great Escape. His

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Speaker 2: other credits include sixty five's King Rat and nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: eight's The Big Sleep. After The Big Sleep, he apparently

355
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Speaker 2: left acting due in large part to worsening asthma conditions

356
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Speaker 2: that he was dealing with and ended up devoting the

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Speaker 2: rest of his time to wine making, so you know,

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Speaker 2: kudos to him the Maynard Path, I guess.

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Speaker 3: So.

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Speaker 2: Now, the next character we have is doctor Roney's assistant.

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Speaker 2: This is Barbara Judd, played by Barbara Shelley. She lived

362
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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two through twenty twenty one, English model turned

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Speaker 2: actress who became something of a horror movie staple for

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Speaker 2: roles in such films as fifty eight's Blood of the Vampire,

365
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Speaker 2: nineteen sixties Village of the Damned, sixty four's The Gorgan

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Speaker 2: sixty six is Dracula, Prince of Darkness, as well as

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Speaker 2: rasputin The Mad Monk, and she was also a prolific

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Speaker 2: British TV actress.

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Speaker 3: She's also quite good in this same thing I would

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Speaker 3: say about the other characters we've talked about so far.

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Speaker 3: It's a very straightforward, down the middle kind of performance.

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Speaker 3: So it's a serious role, but she does well. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it definitely gets to kick into high gear during

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Speaker 2: the third act.

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Speaker 3: Yes.

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Speaker 2: Now, the film's human antagonist for the most part is

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Speaker 2: Colonel Breen, and he has played here by Julian Glover

378
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Speaker 2: born nineteen thirty five and as of this recording, still living,

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Speaker 2: perhaps the only surviving cast member and also still active

380
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Speaker 2: at age ninety.

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Speaker 3: We were just talking off Mike before we started recording

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Speaker 3: about whether Julian Glover has ever played a good guy.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't remember a role that he had

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Speaker 2: that we could classify as a good guy. But he's

385
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Speaker 2: been active for so long I know he did. I mean,

386
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Speaker 2: inevitably he played some good guys and some at least

387
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Speaker 2: good neutral to good supporting characters.

388
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Speaker 3: He plays a lot of kind of friendly bad guys, amiable,

389
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Speaker 3: hospitable villains.

390
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Speaker 2: Yeah, even in this like he is, I don't know,

391
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Speaker 2: the D and D spectrum of alignment doesn't always certainly

392
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:09,399
Speaker 2: doesn't always apply to real life, and not even always

393
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:12,480
Speaker 2: always does it apply to fiction. Like this is a

394
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 2: character who kind of has a tunnel vision about things.

395
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Speaker 2: He sees the world in a particular light, and he

396
00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,360
Speaker 2: is completely unable and unwilling to budge when new evidence

397
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Speaker 2: would seem to alter his worldview.

398
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Speaker 3: Yeah, very lawful, neutral.

399
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Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean he I think he believes he's

400
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,080
Speaker 2: doing good. Yeah, but it'll be interesting to discuss his

401
00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 2: art because I mean, he's he has some pretty logical

402
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,720
Speaker 2: counter arguments for most of the picture.

403
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we might get into this more later, but I

404
00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:46,600
Speaker 3: was thinking about how when he has a competing theory

405
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,800
Speaker 3: to explain the find in the tunnel, competing with quator Mass' explanation.

406
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 3: In reality, if we were to find something of this kind,

407
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,400
Speaker 3: his theory would probably be the much better one. But yeah,

408
00:21:57,520 --> 00:21:59,639
Speaker 3: just we know quater Mass is right because you know

409
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 3: it's a But.

410
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, we know we're watching the science fiction film, and

411
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 2: therefore quator Mass's sci fi explanation is the one we

412
00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:11,720
Speaker 2: realize is the correct one. But Breens argument would make

413
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: more sense in our real world. So Glover was only

414
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:17,560
Speaker 2: thirty two years old at the time and according to Glover,

415
00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,359
Speaker 2: probably much too young to actually play this character, but

416
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 2: he didn't mind being cast. But English actor here of stage,

417
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 2: screen and TV, with credits going back into the fifties.

418
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:30,880
Speaker 2: He acted opposite Christopher Lee the same year sixty seven

419
00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: in Theater of Death, and he was a staple of

420
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,960
Speaker 2: British TV and film for years, but many, at least internationally,

421
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: really took notice of him in nineteen eighty when he

422
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:43,159
Speaker 2: played General Veers and the Empire Strikes Back, one of,

423
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,400
Speaker 2: if not the only, high ranking imperial officer to ever

424
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,160
Speaker 2: survive the events of the Star Wars films.

425
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Speaker 3: He I believe, commands the assault on the rebel base

426
00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 3: on Hawth and he does a good job.

427
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, he does, like a good job. It seems successful.

428
00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 2: And I didn't do a deep dive into the labyrinth

429
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 2: of Star Wars lore on this one. But it's my

430
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: understanding that he survived. He definitely survives the movie, does

431
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 2: not experience an on screen death in another film, and

432
00:23:12,320 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: may have just survived in general. So I don't know.

433
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Speaker 2: Super Star Wars fans can write in with additional insight,

434
00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:20,840
Speaker 2: but for the most part, like he came in, did

435
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 2: his job, and left.

436
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,160
Speaker 3: Wonder what he does after the collapse of the Empire.

437
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 3: He just he's like, well enough of that, then goes home.

438
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he retires, Maybe he takes up with the

439
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 2: New Republic. Maybe he's like, hey, you know, I'm just

440
00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: doing my job and they're like, okay, fine, you know,

441
00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 2: we have we'll we'll hire you on. I don't know

442
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 2: at any rate. Julian Glover, let's see, went on to

443
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,920
Speaker 2: play a Bond villain and eighty one's for your Eyes Only.

444
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 2: This is not when I have strong memories of.

445
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right. I don't remember exactly what his

446
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 3: plot is, but For Your Eyes Only, I think was

447
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 3: an attempt to just sort of pull Bond back down

448
00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,240
Speaker 3: to Earth after the movies and the villain's plots had

449
00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 3: all gotten really big, like every time the villain's plot

450
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 3: had become to you know, they're going to take over

451
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 3: the entire world or you know, or just like just

452
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,080
Speaker 3: it got kind of oversized. And so For Your Eyes

453
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 3: Only was a very small, contained spy and crime thriller,

454
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,880
Speaker 3: and so I think his aims were on those were

455
00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:24,399
Speaker 3: more on that level. I think maybe it's like he

456
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 3: got control of some kind of cryptographic device and was

457
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 3: going to sell it to the Soviets or something like that.

458
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,479
Speaker 2: Hmm. Yeah, I don't remember this one all that well.

459
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,360
Speaker 2: I may. I mainly remember that it had had Topol

460
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: in it, and it also had Michael Gothard, who we've

461
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 2: talked about on the show before. Yeah, but I kind

462
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: of forget Julian Glover's role in it, though he I

463
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: believe he is the main villain.

464
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a there's a final showdown at his hideout,

465
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 3: which is like up on top of this big mesa.

466
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I remember that I remember the mesa they

467
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,439
Speaker 2: go up in a basket, right, yeah. Oh, and then

468
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 2: he played the villain Walter Donovan in nineteen eighty nine's

469
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: Indiana in the Last Crusade. And this is another major

470
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 2: role that a lot of people are going to recognize

471
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:05,800
Speaker 2: Julian Glover from.

472
00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, he has a fan. He's great as the

473
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 3: villain in that. But he also has a great turbo rot.

474
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: Yes he does. So he's remained quite active for decades.

475
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,480
Speaker 2: He voiced ara Og, who I believe is a spider

476
00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:19,960
Speaker 2: in two thousand and two is Harry Potter and the

477
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 2: Chamber of Secrets. He appeared in two thousand and four

478
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: a'st Troy, and he played grand Master Piecel on Game

479
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,520
Speaker 2: of Thrones. He also appeared on The Crown. All right,

480
00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: So those are main actors. I'm not going to there's

481
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,480
Speaker 2: an extended This is one of those films that, again

482
00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:39,160
Speaker 2: it gets very procedural, so a lot of government employees

483
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,919
Speaker 2: are called in to rule on this, that or another

484
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 2: matter concerning the event. I'm not going to list all

485
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:49,680
Speaker 2: of them. We may come back to a few as

486
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960
Speaker 2: we proceed, but I do want to mention the character

487
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:56,320
Speaker 2: Slayden played by Duncan Lamont, who lived nineteen eighteen through

488
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy eight. Quator Mass in the Pit again is

489
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: not a funny movie. It doesn't have a lot of

490
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,159
Speaker 2: whimsy in it. This character is probably the closest we

491
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 2: get to a comic relief character. He's our working class

492
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 2: guy who's brought in to work a high power drill.

493
00:26:12,359 --> 00:26:15,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's got a funny little short monologue about how

494
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: he enjoys buying insurance. Yes, makes him feel good.

495
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So this is probably the most smart when

496
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:25,880
Speaker 2: ducing character in the picture. He was a British film

497
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 2: and TV character actor who also appeared on TV's The

498
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: quator Mass Experiment. Different character though, obviously. Oh and then

499
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,159
Speaker 2: we have a character who serves under Colonel Breen who's

500
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 2: a little more, a little less rigid in his thinking.

501
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:44,960
Speaker 2: This is Captain Potter. He's played by Brian Marshall of

502
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,200
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight through twenty nineteen, British actor who also

503
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,159
Speaker 2: appeared in seventy seven's The Spy Who Loved Me, nineteen

504
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: eighty's The Long Good Friday and eighty nine.

505
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 3: Is the Punisher.

506
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,439
Speaker 2: And then I do want to touch on the score

507
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: here because The score is by Tristram Carey, who lived

508
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: teen twenty five through two thousand and eight English Australian

509
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 2: composer and electronic pioneer, though much of the main score

510
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,440
Speaker 2: here is not recognizably electronic. It's more traditional. But where

511
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:17,520
Speaker 2: Carrie apparently really got to shine was the electronic underground

512
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,560
Speaker 2: vibration noises and some of the other sci fi sounds

513
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 2: in the picture. He created these with his electronic expertise,

514
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 2: and they're I think they're quite impressive.

515
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: There are many scenes of a sound being generated which

516
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: is symbolic of a kind of field of that is

517
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,320
Speaker 3: created by an object in the movie that affects character's minds,

518
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:41,199
Speaker 3: and when we hear the sound, we know something horrible

519
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 3: is happening. And yeah, it's good sound work.

520
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think it was kind of advanced for

521
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:48,919
Speaker 2: the time I was reading that. Like one of the

522
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: one of the individuals who critiqued it when it came out,

523
00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:55,600
Speaker 2: they complained about the electronic noises. They're like, these noises

524
00:27:55,640 --> 00:28:01,200
Speaker 2: are too disturbing. But so I love the sound design here,

525
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,679
Speaker 2: and we'll get into the visual effects as we go.

526
00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: But I think if the visual effects do fall short

527
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 2: at all, the sound design is also there to help

528
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 2: sort of elevate what's going on. And I don't want

529
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: to undercut the traditional score of the picture either, because

530
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: it is effective moody and I think particularly poignant during

531
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: the end credits.

532
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I agree, And we'll.

533
00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:25,880
Speaker 2: Come back to that, of course when we get into

534
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 2: the plot. But anyway, Carrie's other scores include nineteen fifty

535
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 2: five's The Lady Killers, seventy one's Blood from the Mummy's Tomb,

536
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 2: and some episodes of TV's Doctor Who.

537
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 3: Are you ready to talk about the plot?

538
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 2: Let's do it, Rob.

539
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:49,440
Speaker 3: I've got a picture of the title screen for you

540
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:51,480
Speaker 3: to look at here, and I got to say, this

541
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,400
Speaker 3: does not look like a science fiction film based on

542
00:28:54,440 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: the title screen has a much more either Gothic horror

543
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: or maybe even kind of grow ros Italian horror look

544
00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: to it. This could this could have Paul Nashy in it.

545
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just a big old red skull there. And yeah,

546
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 2: you can, of course say the more skulls are science, right,

547
00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 2: but no, it definitely reads more horror here.

548
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 3: That's true if you think about physics and chemistry, any

549
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 3: object you show could be science.

550
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:18,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

551
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So we open on an empty, dreary, rain soaked

552
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: city street in London in what appears to be the

553
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 3: early morning hours. Now I couldn't tell immediately if this

554
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 3: was a real location in London or if it was

555
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 3: just an extremely good set. It has very similitude, but

556
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: it also has that claustrophobic, boxed in feeling of a

557
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 3: street built on a sound stage. But maybe some streets

558
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 3: in London are just like that, you know, some streets

559
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: in reality are. Last year I was in Chicago and

560
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,320
Speaker 3: I remember noticing there were some streets I was on

561
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 3: in Chicago that had that street on a sound stage feeling.

562
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 4: Yeah.

563
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, Anyway, A bobby and a police helmet is out

564
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: wandering the road, and he's the only human being in sight,

565
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 3: so it's very lonely out. He crosses the street, passes

566
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 3: a storefront and there's a white cat pacing at the threshold.

567
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 3: He stops for a moment next to the cat, and

568
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:20,960
Speaker 3: then he moves on along the sidewalk to the illuminated

569
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,960
Speaker 3: entrance to an underground station, and the awning over the

570
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 3: gate tells us that this is the stop for hobbs End.

571
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,840
Speaker 3: Intense music builds here, so we cut inside to see

572
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,080
Speaker 3: a sign explaining that the Hobbs End station is currently

573
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 3: closed because of construction work in the tunnel. I think

574
00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 3: they're trying to connect two existing lines it with an extension,

575
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 3: and deep below we hear jackhammers rattling and machines echoing

576
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,520
Speaker 3: through the tunnels and the halls, and then we cut

577
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 3: down to join the construction crew. They're busy digging to

578
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,440
Speaker 3: extend the shaft. I must say, something looks seriously wrong

579
00:30:58,520 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 3: with the earth they are digging through. It is not

580
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:04,720
Speaker 3: dry soil, but it's like a wet, pale, chocolate goop

581
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 3: kind of mud slime.

582
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 2: Oh you're just saying this because we just watched Willy

583
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 2: Wank on the Chocolate Factor. It just looks That's the

584
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 2: only reason it looks like chocolate here.

585
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 3: But didn't it look a little too goofy?

586
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it looks a little. They describe it

587
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: as being mostly clay later on, and I guess it

588
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: does have that feel. But yeah, I never I know.

589
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 2: This is one of those situations where, yeah, put to

590
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 2: the test, I never completely believed this was like actual

591
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: raw mud from underneath London. But I was very easily

592
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 2: able to suspend disbelief here, So.

593
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 3: The workers are shoveling the mud and clay onto a

594
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 3: conveyor belt, which takes it away to be removed in

595
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: little mining carts. But suddenly one of them notices something

596
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: in one of the clods on the belt. It is

597
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,240
Speaker 3: what appears to be a human skull music sting, or

598
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: at least it looks like a human skull, but the

599
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 3: cranium is shaped a little bit odd. It's it's kind

600
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 3: of big, except it's not the whole skull, it's just

601
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 3: the front half of the skull, like just the face.

602
00:32:08,040 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 3: And we get some great, you know British character you

603
00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 3: know performances here, like hey, look at these dead eyes.

604
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,760
Speaker 3: Get a load of the nashers, and then he tosses

605
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 3: the muddy skull straight into this other guy's arms. The

606
00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:21,479
Speaker 3: guy gets mud all of his all over his sweater.

607
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 3: So the workers keep digging, and then they uncover a

608
00:32:24,840 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 3: full skeleton, again with a weird skull. So the discovery

609
00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 3: is immediately a sensation, and we cut to the next

610
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 3: day where there are local newspapers running with the headline

611
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 3: underground ape men. By the time we arrived back at

612
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 3: the dig site, it has been taken over by scientists

613
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 3: who are continuing to excavate in an attempt to understand

614
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 3: what the find means. These scientists include the paleontologist doctor

615
00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 3: Matthew Ronie again that's James Donald and his assistant Barbara

616
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,680
Speaker 3: Judd played by Barbara Shelley. Ronnie is talking to a

617
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,560
Speaker 3: group of reporters about how they've uncovered six skeletons already

618
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 3: and about how the authorities will soon want to resume

619
00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:08,280
Speaker 3: excavation to complete the underground line, but his team has

620
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: to be given more time to do a proper scientific survey.

621
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 3: This could be one of the most significant finds in

622
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 3: the history of paleontology, and he believes it is evidence

623
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 3: that humans like us walk to the planet as early

624
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 3: as five million years ago, much earlier than the consensus

625
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:27,880
Speaker 3: idea on the emergence of anatomically modern humans. So I

626
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 3: guess these would be somewhat different because they got the

627
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 3: giant skulls. And even this conversation kind of begins a

628
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: theme that will continue throughout the film, which is scientists

629
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 3: struggling against authorities and other governmental demands. Like he's saying,

630
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 3: like this is really important. We have to preserve this

631
00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: site so that we can excavate it properly, make sure

632
00:33:49,080 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 3: everything is documented well. But he knows the authorities are

633
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: just going to want to get the jackhammers back in

634
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: there and keep extending the line as fast as they can.

635
00:33:57,040 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: So he's trying to enlist the help of the press

636
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,640
Speaker 3: to make the public sympathize with how important of a

637
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 3: discovery this is, so that they can have the time

638
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: they need. Ronnie also here unveils a reconstruction he has

639
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,400
Speaker 3: put together of the so called ape man. It looks

640
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 3: like an old man with a sad face. He's got

641
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 3: kind of a protruding chin and an underbite and a

642
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 3: huge cranium. I'm not sure why these ape men had

643
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,120
Speaker 3: a brain the size of a Thanksgiving turkey, but they

644
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:26,000
Speaker 3: did well.

645
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll find out.

646
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: Ronney does caution this is speculative.

647
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: But he put a lot of work into it. Like this,

648
00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: this guy is really an overachiever.

649
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 3: I don't know.

650
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,640
Speaker 2: It's like you have the like, how long have they

651
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: been working down here, like a few days? Yeah, and

652
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: he already has this complete model there to show to

653
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: the press. It's yeah, I mean, but it fits the character,

654
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: like this guy is on.

655
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: It, but he's dedicated to his work. Yeah. While Roney

656
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,600
Speaker 3: is in the middle of showing off his chin geezer,

657
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 3: one of the other researchers working on the dig here

658
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 3: uncovers what appears to be a pipe. So she's digging

659
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,320
Speaker 3: in the wall and hits something that looks like metal,

660
00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 3: but the pipe is not marked on any of their

661
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 3: maps from the city. By the way. This other researcher,

662
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,000
Speaker 3: the one who finds the pipe, is Missus Dobson played

663
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 3: by b Duffel, whom I knew I recognized from something

664
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,960
Speaker 3: the moment we saw her here, couldn't figure out what

665
00:35:21,000 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 3: it was. Eventually I realized it was from Maddy Python

666
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,920
Speaker 3: in The Holy Grail, where she is the old woman

667
00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 3: that Arthur and Betevir try to ask for directions on

668
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: where to buy a shrubbery and she says like, no,

669
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: I won't tell you no shrubberies, and they torture her

670
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 3: by saying nie to.

671
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: Her, yes, I remember this good connection here, nice, nice,

672
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:40,320
Speaker 2: nice connection.

673
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 3: Anyway, the paleontologists are all quite puzzled this, so they've

674
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 3: got the schem addicts of all the infrastructure it's supposed

675
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: to be buried around them. There's nothing marked in the

676
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 3: wall aheads supposed to be just earth, nothing there, and

677
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,759
Speaker 3: yet they seem to have hit metal, So what could

678
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,640
Speaker 3: it be. The next thought is, uh, oh, it's a bomb.

679
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: And I liked this development because this felt real. This

680
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 3: is postwar London and it would not at all have

681
00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 3: been unreasonable to think that this could be unexploded ordnance

682
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,720
Speaker 3: dropped during the Blitz. In fact, even in the twenty

683
00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,520
Speaker 3: first century in more recent years, like diggers and builders

684
00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 3: in the UK still sometimes find unexploded bombs left over

685
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 3: from World War Two. So the bombs drop, they're huge.

686
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 3: When they hit, they bury themselves deeply, and then something

687
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: like ten percent of bombs don't explode when they're supposed to,

688
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 3: so occasionally you will just find like, oh, a bomb

689
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: hit here and ended up buried and nobody ever figured

690
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 3: out it was there and it never blew up.

691
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is another nice procedural plot beat in

692
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,080
Speaker 2: the picture. You know it just this makes total sense

693
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 2: that they would they would find whatever this is and think, well, okay,

694
00:36:50,239 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 2: the most likely scenario is this is an unexploded bomb.

695
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 2: Let's call the right people to deal with this.

696
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, so a bomb disposal squad is called in Ronny

697
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,360
Speaker 3: again is extremely irritated. His goal is the preservation of

698
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:04,760
Speaker 3: the dig site so it can be of maximal value

699
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 3: to science. And he watches all the men coming in

700
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 3: with their equipment, the bomb disposal squad, and he mutters bitterly,

701
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 3: and that's right, tear it all up. And you can sympathize,

702
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 3: like when the first guy gets to the wall with

703
00:37:19,520 --> 00:37:21,560
Speaker 3: the so with you know, with the piece of metal

704
00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: in it, he just kind of yanks a bone out

705
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:25,360
Speaker 3: of the mud and tosses it aside.

706
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:27,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean, but at the same time, these

707
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:29,560
Speaker 2: guys are here to make sure that the whole block

708
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:30,399
Speaker 2: doesn't blow up.

709
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the bomb disposal texts speculate that it might.

710
00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 3: They look at it, they think what could it be,

711
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: and they say it might be a Satan? And I

712
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 3: was like, what, that's weird. I had to look it up.

713
00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,520
Speaker 3: But that is real. There was a type of German

714
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:47,719
Speaker 3: bomb that was nicknamed a Satan. It's like the SC

715
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:49,160
Speaker 3: eighteen hundred bomb.

716
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:53,359
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. I looked this up as well, so it's

717
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:55,920
Speaker 2: and yeah, they really did nickname it the Satan, which

718
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,240
Speaker 2: ties in nicely with some some places that this story

719
00:37:59,320 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: is going to eventually.

720
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 3: But Eventually the bomb squad realizes something is not right.

721
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:07,239
Speaker 3: They've got a little magnetic microphone that they use to

722
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 3: put it on the capsule and listen inside, and it

723
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:12,880
Speaker 3: doesn't even stick to it. It's like the object is

724
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,239
Speaker 3: not even made of metal, So what is it? Well,

725
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,279
Speaker 3: they decide to dig it out some more and get

726
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 3: a better idea of what they're dealing with. The phrase

727
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 3: they say is let the dog see the rabbit.

728
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 2: Okay.

729
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 3: In the next scene, we will meet a couple of

730
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 3: other major characters, Professor Bernard quater Mass played by Andrew

731
00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:36,359
Speaker 3: Keir and Colonel Breen played by Julian Glover. Quator Mass

732
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:40,560
Speaker 3: here is a serious, thoughtful, scholarly man in a tweed

733
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 3: suit and bow tie, wearing a dark beard accented with gray.

734
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 3: When we first meet him, he's seated in a red

735
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: armchair and having a tense discussion with his superiors in

736
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 3: the government. Colonel Breen again, this Julian Glover is a trim,

737
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 3: well groomed, I would say, super silliest man in a

738
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,880
Speaker 3: military uniform. Again, he's got that great brown mustache that

739
00:39:03,920 --> 00:39:06,280
Speaker 3: apparently I didn't know when I watched, but apparently Julian

740
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,360
Speaker 3: Glover really had to manage the color on and Breen

741
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 3: has a tendency to roll his eyes and turn his

742
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 3: nose up. It's like he is above all this.

743
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, and as we're quickly going to see there is

744
00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:22,799
Speaker 2: there's a real clash of visions here between these two.

745
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:25,279
Speaker 3: Yes. So we enter the scene in the middle of

746
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 3: a conflict. Essentially, what I gather is that Professor quator

747
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 3: Mass has long been in command of a government project

748
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:37,080
Speaker 3: for developing rockets. Essentially, I think he's supposed to be

749
00:39:37,120 --> 00:39:41,440
Speaker 3: in charge of the British space program, and the rockets

750
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 3: he's developing are for the purpose of the peaceful colonization

751
00:39:45,280 --> 00:39:48,720
Speaker 3: of the Moon. But the government official in the scene

752
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 3: tells him that, due to a change of policy, his

753
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 3: project is now being taken out of civilian control and

754
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: handed over to the military, so that instead of building

755
00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 3: peaceful moon basis for the purpose of scientific research, the

756
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 3: plan will now be to build launch pads on the Moon,

757
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: so that the UK and its allies will be able to,

758
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 3: in Breen's words, quote, police the Earth with ballistic missiles.

759
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 3: And he says, if we don't if we don't do

760
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 3: it first, the other side will. Quator Mass hates this,

761
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 3: he expresses open outrage and disgust. He feels this is

762
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:28,280
Speaker 3: a betrayal, it's turning his peaceful work into a weapon.

763
00:40:28,400 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 3: It's a perversion. And you know, he's of the opinion

764
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 3: that the desire to possess the ultimate weapon is sort

765
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 3: of the inevitable desire of weak and fearful minds. Meanwhile,

766
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 3: Breen regards quater Mass with this detached, humorous pity. He's

767
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 3: just kind of scoffing at his idealism. When quator Mass

768
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,759
Speaker 3: at one point says, you mean the installations on the

769
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: moon will be military? Breen seems a little surprised by

770
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 3: the question. He says, of course, and he kind of

771
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,280
Speaker 3: laughs a bit. It's someone with quator Mass's views seems

772
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,759
Speaker 3: so quaint to him that it's ridiculous.

773
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, And at this point in the film, it is

774
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: like really clear that they are both very much in

775
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: their own worlds and they just, i mean, they really

776
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,200
Speaker 2: can't even conceive of the mindset in worldview of the

777
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: other individual. Like to bring of course, all of this

778
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 2: is military concern, Like ultimately everything is. We can't just ignore,

779
00:41:23,360 --> 00:41:28,080
Speaker 2: you know, the military balance of the world around us.

780
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 2: And then quator Mass is just like pure like future

781
00:41:31,440 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 2: and idealism. You know, let's move out, humanity is moving

782
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,239
Speaker 2: beyond Earth and colonizing other worlds, and and he thinks

783
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,680
Speaker 2: that like that any kind of like military objective is

784
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 2: just blasphemous, you know. And so ultimately, like you, you

785
00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:48,280
Speaker 2: kind of get the idea, or at least idea that

786
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 2: there's a balance in between these two characters, but they're

787
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 2: they're they really neither one has room for the other's viewpoint.

788
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:59,240
Speaker 3: My read on it is that the the author's intention

789
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 3: is to depict that there is a somewhat legitimate balance

790
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 3: of concerns here, but it definitely comes down more on

791
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 3: the side of quater Mass's point of view.

792
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I guess maybe it'll

793
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,200
Speaker 2: vary a little bit at this point depending on what

794
00:42:14,320 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 2: sort of view or you are, But I feel like

795
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,880
Speaker 2: the intended viewer for the most part is going to

796
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:20,160
Speaker 2: be siding with quater Mass.

797
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, quator Mass says to Brien, We're on the

798
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,279
Speaker 3: edge of a new dimension of discovery. It's a great

799
00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:29,560
Speaker 3: chance to leave our vices behind war first of all,

800
00:42:30,080 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 3: not to go out there dragging our hatreds and our

801
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: frontiers along with us. Well, put, I think, but Breen

802
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: says he is shocked and disturbed to hear such naive

803
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 3: views coming from someone in quator Mass's important position of leadership.

804
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:49,279
Speaker 3: Quater Mass says Breen has lost his humanity. It has

805
00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 3: withered away while he's been locked up in his ivory fortress.

806
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,320
Speaker 3: But then it gets worse from here. Cop movie fans

807
00:42:56,320 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: are about to recognize that the familiar archetypal seen the

808
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:04,400
Speaker 3: chief says, meet your new partner, you know, because the

809
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,239
Speaker 3: government official here tells quator Mass that Breen will be

810
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 3: joining him in command of the rocket group, and then

811
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,320
Speaker 3: he leaves the two of them alone.

812
00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: Uh oh, yeah, but I will, said Brien does. He's like,

813
00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: I'm sure if we have we'll go have lunch at

814
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 2: my club. You know, we'll smooth all of this over. So,

815
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 2: you know, it's at least Brain is like seems to

816
00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 2: be leaving the door open that they can come to

817
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 2: some sort of understanding, which makes him seem like less

818
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 2: of a pure antagonist at this point in the picture.

819
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. Quator Mass is fuming, but Breen tries

820
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:37,399
Speaker 3: to sort of extend his hand and he's like, yeah,

821
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: come have dinner. At my club and we'll talk it through.

822
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 3: We'll figure out what we can do. Yeah, But suddenly

823
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 3: they're interrupted. Instead of going to dinner at the club,

824
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 3: a subordinate delivers a note to Breen. It seems they

825
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,120
Speaker 3: cannot go to supper because something requires his attention in

826
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 3: the underground first, and it seems quator Mass will be

827
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 3: along for the ride. So here our antagonistic duo arrive

828
00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 3: at the digs site at Hobb's End, and they start

829
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 3: to examine the buried object, which is slowly being uncovered

830
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,640
Speaker 3: by the military men. It no longer looks like a pipe.

831
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:14,279
Speaker 3: It is some kind of large, smooth, trailer sized capsule

832
00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: of an unfamiliar material. And though Brain and quator Mass

833
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:22,320
Speaker 3: dislike each other, we can quickly see their complementary sets

834
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,800
Speaker 3: of expertise. When they're trying to identify what sort of

835
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,480
Speaker 3: rocket it could be, they're just sort of bouncing ideas

836
00:44:27,480 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 3: off each other, like these men both know rockets and

837
00:44:30,040 --> 00:44:33,880
Speaker 3: they're talking shop. One of the workers suddenly announces they

838
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 3: have struck another skull in the mud, and doctor Roney

839
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 3: is here. He's called over to investigate, and he pulls

840
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,240
Speaker 3: it out of the earth. Ecstatic. It's the best one yet,

841
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:45,879
Speaker 3: and it seems the skull confirms all of his suspicions

842
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:50,719
Speaker 3: about the huge brained prehistoric commonids. But quator Mass is

843
00:44:50,760 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: the only one who seems to notice something curious about

844
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: this find. The skull was buried essentially inside the cavity

845
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 3: of the capsule. If the object were a bomb, how

846
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:05,719
Speaker 3: did the fossil skull get inside it without breaking Hmmm,

847
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,560
Speaker 3: maybe this object is not a bomb worth considering. Some

848
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 3: more clues start coming in. Breen receives a report from

849
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 3: Civil Defense. There is apparently no record of high explosive

850
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 3: falling on this part of the city, only incendiary bombs

851
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,879
Speaker 3: which burned some unoccupied houses above during the war. Why

852
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 3: were the houses unoccupied, well, Breen says, at first they

853
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:34,839
Speaker 3: were evacuated naturally. But there's an old police officer from

854
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 3: the neighborhood who tells quator Mass, actually that's not right.

855
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,239
Speaker 3: Those houses were not evacuated. They were all abandoned long

856
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:45,479
Speaker 3: before the war. He says, people just wouldn't live there.

857
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:49,920
Speaker 3: Quote some kind of scare, superstition, A lot of nonsense,

858
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:53,160
Speaker 3: I dare say. At this point, I was already like ooh,

859
00:45:53,200 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 3: I like the different flavors that are being combined here.

860
00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because we have min of science and military

861
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 2: vot work, and then we have obvious sci fi elements,

862
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,239
Speaker 2: but then this kind of ghostly element as well that's

863
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 2: presenting itself.

864
00:46:15,719 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 3: So while the others stay below, quator maass and the

865
00:46:18,239 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 3: old policeman walk up to the surface, accompanied by the

866
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:26,239
Speaker 3: paleontology assistant Barbara Judd. Again, that's Barbara Shelley. They say,

867
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:27,960
Speaker 3: she's been cooped up in the tunnel for a long

868
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:29,359
Speaker 3: time and she's got to go up to get some

869
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: fresh air. Though if it's London in the sixties, I'm

870
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: not sure how good the air at the surface would

871
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 3: be either. In fact, I think characters comment on this

872
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 3: a couple of times in the movie, like the bad

873
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:43,719
Speaker 3: air quality in the city. Anyway, the policeman takes the

874
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:46,160
Speaker 3: two of them across the street to have a look

875
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 3: at the abandoned houses that were fire bombed in the war.

876
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 3: They are apparently still abandoned and they're in disrepair, so

877
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,479
Speaker 3: he opens the door and lets them inside. The policeman says,

878
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 3: nobody has lived in these houses for probably forty years now.

879
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 3: Inside they are skeletal, they're stripped of wire and piping,

880
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,640
Speaker 3: with weird scratches and marks on many of the walls.

881
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 3: There's this eerie energy in here. And the policeman explains

882
00:47:12,200 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 3: that when he was a child in the neighborhood, he

883
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,320
Speaker 3: knew a kid who lived in one of these houses,

884
00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 3: but things got so bad the family had to clear out,

885
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 3: and equator Masses like, what what do you mean things

886
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 3: got so bad? And already the cop is acting kind

887
00:47:26,680 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 3: of sheepish. He's like, uh, noises, bumps, even things being seen.

888
00:47:32,040 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 3: Quator Mass says, you mean ghosts, and the policeman is embarrassed,

889
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: like it seems he does not want to say anything more. Again,

890
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 3: it's like, oh, you know, just the usual nonsense. He

891
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 3: seems to be under a kind of stress, like his

892
00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 3: expression is tight, and they're sweat dripping down his temple.

893
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,240
Speaker 3: And as they're talking, the door through which they entered

894
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 3: begins to creak shut under its own weight, and then

895
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 3: behind the door are revealed more of these scratch marks

896
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 3: on the walls, almost like like the raking of huge

897
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:05,280
Speaker 3: cat claws, and so quator Mass asks, what are those marks?

898
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,239
Speaker 3: What could have made them? And the policeman is increasingly

899
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 3: under stress. His breathing is short. He says, kids playing

900
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,520
Speaker 3: playing around probably, and then he bolts outside, followed by

901
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 3: quator Mass and Misjudd. So something's happening to him. The policeman,

902
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 3: he kind of wipes sweat from his face with a

903
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 3: handkerchief and he chokes out an embarrassed apology to the

904
00:48:26,719 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 3: other two. He's like, sorry about that, Sirma, must have

905
00:48:29,680 --> 00:48:31,920
Speaker 3: been a bit warm in there, and then just hurries away.

906
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 3: Very strange.

907
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,919
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a nice little sequence and a nice character.

908
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:39,840
Speaker 2: I didn't clock who this character actor was, but you

909
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:43,760
Speaker 2: get this great feeling of, you know, the overall plot

910
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 2: here concerned something buried that is being unearthed and the

911
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,319
Speaker 2: ramifications of that, and then we get kind of the

912
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 2: small version of that here encapsulated with this with the

913
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:59,120
Speaker 2: unearthing of the past, the more recent past, and some

914
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 2: of these some of the traumas and memories associated with it.

915
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 4: Yeah.

916
00:49:03,239 --> 00:49:05,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, But also I thought it's interesting in this scene

917
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 3: that it's like the police officer both wants to tell

918
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 3: them about it and doesn't want to tell them. It's

919
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: like it's like he wants to share this somehow, but

920
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 3: he's also embarrassed and almost like maybe there's some kind

921
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 3: of like his you know, his control bolt like the

922
00:49:22,120 --> 00:49:24,560
Speaker 3: Droids and Star Wars, is like preventing him.

923
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like you know, he's doing the good thing,

924
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, the lawful thing, and sharing what he knew

925
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:35,920
Speaker 2: with these these other investigators, but maybe wasn't prepared for

926
00:49:36,239 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: how traumatic it was to actually let some of those

927
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,960
Speaker 2: memories back out again and in a space like this.

928
00:49:41,360 --> 00:49:42,080
Speaker 4: Yeah.

929
00:49:42,400 --> 00:49:45,239
Speaker 3: So quator Mass and Breen reunite, and it turns out

930
00:49:45,280 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 3: they have both independently decided they would like to stay

931
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: here and investigate this buried missile a bit more before

932
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:54,239
Speaker 3: returning to their work with the Rocket Group. So Breen

933
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: says his men should have the entire object excavated by

934
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 3: the following day. After Breen leaves, there is this great

935
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 3: little moment between quator Mass and Barbara Judd. They stand

936
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,200
Speaker 3: on the street looking at the sign for Hobbs Lane.

937
00:50:08,280 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 3: There's a new sign right next to the old sign.

938
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,120
Speaker 3: The old sign is etched into the stone facade of

939
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 3: a building. The current name for the street is Hobbes

940
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 3: with two bees. Quator Mass says, like the cricketer, I

941
00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:24,000
Speaker 3: guess that's Jack Hobbs. And the old name was Hobb's

942
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: lane with one bee. Miss Judd points out that this

943
00:50:27,080 --> 00:50:29,480
Speaker 3: version of the word hobb was an old word that

944
00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:30,799
Speaker 3: meant devil.

945
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 2: Oh like hob goblin.

946
00:50:32,680 --> 00:50:37,160
Speaker 3: Gotcha hmm. Then we get a very hammer music sting there.

947
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:40,520
Speaker 3: All right. So the next scene is one of I

948
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 3: would say, one of the most unintentionally funny things in

949
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:48,520
Speaker 3: the movie, because we get some brain scanning machinery. Quator

950
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: Mass goes to visit Roney at his lab in the

951
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 3: Natural History Museum and Ronney is doing these weird experiments,

952
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 3: I would say, especially weird experiments for a palaeontologist to

953
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 3: be doing. Yeah, he's got to go. I hooked up

954
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 3: to a helmet with a bajillion little wires coming out

955
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:05,640
Speaker 3: of it, and that's hooked up, they say, to a

956
00:51:05,719 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 3: computer and a big machine that is hooting softly, and

957
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 3: Rony explains that they are sensing the brain waves of

958
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:17,920
Speaker 3: this volunteer named mister Johnson, because this is what they say,

959
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 3: because his skull shape just happens to be very similar

960
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,320
Speaker 3: to the skull of a fossil hominid from the quote

961
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:27,600
Speaker 3: second ice age.

962
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he has tenure at this point. That's

963
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 2: why I was able to do these added consciousness experiments.

964
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, so they say that somehow by scanning mister Johnson's

965
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:44,080
Speaker 3: brain with this machine while he's like solving a puzzle,

966
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:48,879
Speaker 3: because his skull is shaped like the skull of this

967
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 3: ancient human or human ancestor, they will be able to

968
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:57,799
Speaker 3: know what this ice age hominid was quote able to

969
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 3: think and do. I don't know about that, but quator

970
00:52:00,840 --> 00:52:04,359
Speaker 3: Mass is like, ah, yes, the Roney analysis. I think

971
00:52:04,360 --> 00:52:07,160
Speaker 3: it's like he's already familiar with this technique from the literature.

972
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 2: This guy definitely publishes, Like you get the sense that

973
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 2: he's already submitted a paper about the hobs End excavation.

974
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: You know, that's just how on the ball this guy is.

975
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: Rony hopes next to be able to apply this test

976
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:24,719
Speaker 3: to the giant skulls he found in the tube. But

977
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:26,560
Speaker 3: then I was thinking, that's what he says, but I

978
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:28,680
Speaker 3: was wondering, wait, does that mean he's going to have

979
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 3: to find a living person with a head shaped like

980
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:32,320
Speaker 3: that to scan.

981
00:52:33,239 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, this part of this is a little shaky. It's

982
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 2: going to be important later on, but like some of

983
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: the science here is a little shaky.

984
00:52:39,120 --> 00:52:42,359
Speaker 3: So quator Mass has a sensitive question for Ronnie about

985
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:45,320
Speaker 3: the creatures to whom the skeletons belonged. He kind of

986
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 3: pulls him aside and he says, were they of this earth?

987
00:52:48,680 --> 00:52:51,719
Speaker 3: Roney says, sorry to disappoint, but yes they were. They're

988
00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:55,319
Speaker 3: clearly part of the pattern of human evolution, except for

989
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 3: the giant skulls. Otherwise they fit perfectly in with the

990
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 3: human human ancestor fossil record. These are humans of Earth,

991
00:53:03,080 --> 00:53:06,719
Speaker 3: but just with big skulls. So the questions are really

992
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:11,240
Speaker 3: piling up. Before heading back to the excavation, quator Mass

993
00:53:11,320 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 3: bumps into Miss Judd and she has been doing some

994
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 3: library research. She found some old newspapers about Hobbs Lane

995
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,359
Speaker 3: from the nineteen twenties and it's all stories of hauntings.

996
00:53:23,760 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 3: There's something called the hobbs Lane Spook, which is a

997
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,480
Speaker 3: specter that walks through bedroom walls, described by some people

998
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 3: as a small humanoid creature with hideous features, and Quator

999
00:53:34,880 --> 00:53:37,399
Speaker 3: mass It first tries to wave this off. He's like, wow,

1000
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,560
Speaker 3: you know, we're scientists. We can't waste our time with

1001
00:53:39,600 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 3: stuff like this. Meanwhile, back at the station, Colonel Breen

1002
00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 3: and his men have uncovered the whole object, which does

1003
00:53:47,239 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: not resemble a rocket or bomb at all. Instead, I

1004
00:53:50,440 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 3: would say it looks like a huge, shiny, metallic orc boot.

1005
00:53:55,000 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And I have to say I think he

1006
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:59,719
Speaker 2: did a great job with the I mean, I'm gonna

1007
00:53:59,719 --> 00:54:01,759
Speaker 2: go ahead call it what we are all. I think

1008
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 2: aware that it's going to be the spaceship here the artifact,

1009
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:09,239
Speaker 2: because it does convincingly look like some sort of a

1010
00:54:09,280 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 2: metallic object that's maybe not made of any kind of

1011
00:54:12,280 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 2: conventional earth metal. Its shape, you know, defies our expectations

1012
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 2: of human technology. So I think it looks really good.

1013
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the design. We were also talking about

1014
00:54:24,320 --> 00:54:26,480
Speaker 3: this off mic before we started. But I would say

1015
00:54:26,520 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 3: in general, well, I think quator Mass in the Pit

1016
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 3: is quite ambitious in terms of sci fi storytelling. I

1017
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 3: would not say it's generally very ambitious in terms of

1018
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:42,320
Speaker 3: visual spectacle, but most of the stuff in it looks

1019
00:54:42,480 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 3: pretty good. I would say, with a few exceptions that

1020
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 3: you know that we're about to get to some alien

1021
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,719
Speaker 3: bodies that I think are not the most spectacular thing

1022
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 3: I've ever seen. But the alien ship looks pretty good.

1023
00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 3: And we'll see a cool projection kind of energy projection

1024
00:54:57,640 --> 00:54:59,439
Speaker 3: object at the end of the movie. That looks pretty

1025
00:54:59,440 --> 00:54:59,840
Speaker 3: cool to that.

1026
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,600
Speaker 2: It looks really good as well. It's just the alien bodies,

1027
00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 2: which we're about to get to. These are the less

1028
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:10,040
Speaker 2: convincing elements. But this is one of those pictures when

1029
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 2: everything else is working, you know, you can easily suspend

1030
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:17,720
Speaker 2: disbelief and you know it ultimately elevates the effect.

1031
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, so they say that the object to the ship,

1032
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,239
Speaker 3: as we've revealed now, displays bizarre properties. Of course they

1033
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,400
Speaker 3: don't know it's a ship yet, but whatever this object is,

1034
00:55:28,040 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 3: the material it's made of, they say, is harder than diamond.

1035
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,920
Speaker 3: The soldiers try to cut it with a blow torch,

1036
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:36,880
Speaker 3: and not only does the torch not cut through after

1037
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,560
Speaker 3: having the flame on it for five minutes, it doesn't

1038
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,640
Speaker 3: even get warm. The soldiers also find that they have

1039
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:46,280
Speaker 3: to wear gloves because those of them that have touched

1040
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,839
Speaker 3: the object with bare hands end up with some kind

1041
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 3: of tissue damage. They say it resembles mild frostbite. This,

1042
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 3: of course, is even though the object does not feel

1043
00:55:55,480 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 3: cold to the touch. They say most of the interior

1044
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 3: cavity is in empty, except for one spot that seems

1045
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 3: to taper off into a sealed compartment and Colonel Breen

1046
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 3: has turned his attention to the sealed compartment because he

1047
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 3: thinks it may still contain a warhead. Now here's a

1048
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:17,080
Speaker 3: weird development. Quator Mass goes inside to look at this

1049
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 3: compartment wall and he finds a pattern of markings that

1050
00:56:21,960 --> 00:56:25,560
Speaker 3: after he wipes away the clay, he says, are, well,

1051
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,120
Speaker 3: we see them. They're like an etching of these interlocked circles,

1052
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 3: and he says they form quote a pentacle, one of

1053
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:38,400
Speaker 3: the cabalistic signs of ancient magic. Huh again, weird clashing

1054
00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:41,040
Speaker 3: of themes. That's not usually what you find on a spaceship.

1055
00:56:41,360 --> 00:56:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So we have this like this weird triangle

1056
00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:51,840
Speaker 2: we keep reinforcing, connecting paleontology to occultism to science fiction.

1057
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 3: Shortly after this, one of the soldiers, a guy named West,

1058
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,720
Speaker 3: is inside the cavities. I think. They say he's hosing

1059
00:56:58,719 --> 00:57:01,560
Speaker 3: out mud or something, and out of nowhere he just

1060
00:57:01,600 --> 00:57:05,279
Speaker 3: starts to scream in terror. The others go inside to

1061
00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 3: check on him, and he's like collapsed in the corner.

1062
00:57:07,960 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 3: He says he saw someone says there was a frightening

1063
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:14,279
Speaker 3: little figure coming toward him and it walked straight through

1064
00:57:14,320 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: the wall. They get him out of the ship and

1065
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,520
Speaker 3: they're you know, they're medicinally giving him whiskey. It's another

1066
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 3: one of those movies. What was the other one like

1067
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 3: that we watched recently where everybody seemed to believe that

1068
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:27,080
Speaker 3: liquor had medicinal value?

1069
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,200
Speaker 2: Oh goodness, I feel like there have been several like

1070
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:30,080
Speaker 2: that over the years.

1071
00:57:30,360 --> 00:57:30,880
Speaker 3: Crawling Eye.

1072
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:32,920
Speaker 2: Crawling Eye was definitely one. Yes.

1073
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 3: So he's sucking on the flask and Miss Judd comes

1074
00:57:36,840 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 3: up to him and says, was it like a small,

1075
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,919
Speaker 3: hideous dwarf? And he says, well, you know, by god,

1076
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:43,840
Speaker 3: that's exactly what it was like. How did you know?

1077
00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 2: Well.

1078
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,600
Speaker 3: At this point, quator Mass is starting to become convinced

1079
00:57:47,680 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 3: that Miss Judd was onto something with her library research,

1080
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 3: so they head back to the archives and sure enough,

1081
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:58,280
Speaker 3: the history of hauntings at Hobbs Lane goes back much

1082
00:57:58,320 --> 00:58:02,080
Speaker 3: further than the nineteen twenty. They find pamphlets from the

1083
00:58:02,160 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 3: eighteenth century about ghosts and bizarre sightings in the locale

1084
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:10,600
Speaker 3: and some like there's a story that somebody is digging

1085
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:14,160
Speaker 3: a well and they hear such grievous sounds that the

1086
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:18,160
Speaker 3: man loses his mind with fear. There's another story that

1087
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:23,960
Speaker 3: a local resident espied a strange goblin. And from here

1088
00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 3: they move back in time. They go on to the

1089
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:30,840
Speaker 3: archives of Westminster Abbey, where there's like a curator there

1090
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:35,400
Speaker 3: who tells them, who's like reading from this giant Latin manuscript,

1091
00:58:36,000 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 3: who says, quote, in the winter of the year thirteen

1092
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:41,680
Speaker 3: forty one, the religious of that region did strive against

1093
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:45,400
Speaker 3: an outbreak of evil at Hobbs Lane, imps and demons

1094
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,880
Speaker 3: did appear. Foul noises sent by the devil did sorely

1095
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,960
Speaker 3: affect the charcoal burners that had lately come there. So

1096
00:58:53,680 --> 00:58:56,760
Speaker 3: we've got a collection now of these times when hauntings

1097
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:00,800
Speaker 3: are reported in this place charcoal burners, and the fourteenth century,

1098
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 3: when they were felling great trees, in the eighteenth century,

1099
00:59:05,040 --> 00:59:07,880
Speaker 3: when people were digging a well, in the nineteen twenties,

1100
00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,479
Speaker 3: when the underground station was being built, and now, and

1101
00:59:11,600 --> 00:59:15,160
Speaker 3: in all cases quator Mass notes it's when the ground

1102
00:59:15,280 --> 00:59:18,160
Speaker 3: was being disturbed. So the next big development is that

1103
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:22,120
Speaker 3: Breen hires a mechanic with a Borazon drill to cut

1104
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,960
Speaker 3: through the sealed compartment so they can see what's inside.

1105
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:28,000
Speaker 3: This is the guy Slatin I think we mentioned earlier.

1106
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:31,840
Speaker 3: Who's got some he's got some comedic dialogue. At one point,

1107
00:59:31,840 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 3: when he's setting his drill up, he's telling a story

1108
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 3: about how he once like drilled through six inches of

1109
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 3: solid steel armor plating just like that, and then he says, oh,

1110
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 3: it was legal. A bloke got shut in a strong room,

1111
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,360
Speaker 3: but I got him out. It was a secret job

1112
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:49,320
Speaker 3: like this one. And then Colonel Breen says, then I'm

1113
00:59:49,320 --> 00:59:53,840
Speaker 3: glad you don't talk about it, and they oh, he's

1114
00:59:53,840 --> 00:59:56,160
Speaker 3: also like the guy who talks about being insured. You know,

1115
00:59:56,200 --> 00:59:58,480
Speaker 3: it's good to be insured. It cheers you up, he says.

1116
00:59:58,840 --> 01:00:02,080
Speaker 3: So he tries to drill, but the borizon drill fails.

1117
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 3: And more than that, Quator Mass and Breen are in

1118
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:07,880
Speaker 3: the ship when he's trying to drill, and it seems

1119
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 3: to rattle the whole place, like some weird possession comes

1120
01:00:12,080 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 3: over them, and it's like Claxon's going off inside their heads.

1121
01:00:17,320 --> 01:00:20,440
Speaker 3: And afterwards, Colonel Breen goes outside the ship and vomits,

1122
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,560
Speaker 3: and he's trying to play it off. He's just like,

1123
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,880
Speaker 3: just some sort of freak vibration must have been, but

1124
01:00:26,320 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, it seems like it was more than that.

1125
01:00:28,720 --> 01:00:30,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and this is of course where we get

1126
01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 2: the excellent sound effects and sound design here these electronic

1127
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:38,320
Speaker 2: vibration noises, so the film, yeah, the film does a

1128
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:39,040
Speaker 2: great job with this.

1129
01:00:39,480 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 3: Weirdly, after this, they check back and a hole has

1130
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:46,560
Speaker 3: formed in the wall, in the wall of the sealed compartment,

1131
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,840
Speaker 3: though it was not drilled by the drill. Instead, it

1132
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:55,480
Speaker 3: looks almost melted from the inside. Then as Rony Breen

1133
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,440
Speaker 3: and Quator Mass stare at the compartment wall, there is

1134
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 3: a great moment of almost kind of psychedelic animated image

1135
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:04,480
Speaker 3: that forms. I didn't know what was going on for

1136
01:01:04,520 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 3: a second here, like there's a crystalline pink dot on

1137
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:13,000
Speaker 3: a black background, with these thin borders of fire creeping

1138
01:01:13,040 --> 01:01:16,440
Speaker 3: over the surface of the black and then pink cracks

1139
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 3: appear all over the blackness, like shattering glass that they

1140
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: sort of spread out into a spider web shape. And

1141
01:01:22,480 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 3: then finally, finally the black wall crumbles, revealing what's within,

1142
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,760
Speaker 3: which is a pink and purple wall of prismatic material

1143
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 3: with several recesses, and inside the recesses there are giant bugs,

1144
01:01:37,800 --> 01:01:43,040
Speaker 3: weird insectoid creatures kind of like huge demonic grasshoppers with

1145
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 3: green compound eyes, gaping toothy mouths, and devil horns.

1146
01:01:48,440 --> 01:01:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow, this sequence is quite a ride because already

1147
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:56,040
Speaker 2: the spaceship set is really cool, and then yeah, we

1148
01:01:56,080 --> 01:01:59,840
Speaker 2: get this psychedelic animation sequence of that wall breaking open,

1149
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:04,400
Speaker 2: and then and then the interior set is also really neat.

1150
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:07,920
Speaker 2: But the bugs, which they're going to shortly, very shortly

1151
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,960
Speaker 2: be hauling out, these are less convincing. I mean, they're

1152
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,480
Speaker 2: very neat in their details. I like the design, I

1153
01:02:13,520 --> 01:02:16,320
Speaker 2: like the ideas bound up in these creatures. You know

1154
01:02:16,360 --> 01:02:22,360
Speaker 2: that they're horned tripod insect or you know, at least

1155
01:02:22,440 --> 01:02:26,480
Speaker 2: Arthur pod creatures, but they just look a little bit

1156
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:28,000
Speaker 2: to paper mache here.

1157
01:02:28,120 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you mentioned tripod. They do have three legs each,

1158
01:02:32,320 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 3: and that will time. That ties in interestingly, I think

1159
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 3: to War of the World's pre existing alien invasion literature.

1160
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,320
Speaker 3: But that also the characters point out to some classic

1161
01:02:43,400 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 3: imagery of the devil, like you would find in medieval

1162
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,440
Speaker 3: manuscripts that show Satan with three legs.

1163
01:02:48,760 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't want to harp too much on

1164
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 2: the design here because again I was able to I

1165
01:02:53,880 --> 01:02:58,240
Speaker 2: thought easily suspendous belief here and overlook the appearance and

1166
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,240
Speaker 2: they don't look near as bad as they could have.

1167
01:03:01,360 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 2: It's not so distracting that it throws you out of

1168
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 2: the picture. They don't look actively goofy oh.

1169
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:08,960
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean when I was saying earlier about the

1170
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:12,160
Speaker 3: movie not being super ambitious in terms of visual spectacle,

1171
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:14,920
Speaker 3: I didn't mean, like, what's in it looks bad. I

1172
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 3: just meant that it has other concerns. It's not trying

1173
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:21,440
Speaker 3: to show you a lot of amazing looking things.

1174
01:03:21,640 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like all the ideas bound up in these aliens

1175
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,560
Speaker 2: are amazing. It's just that visually they're just a few

1176
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,600
Speaker 2: steps below other visual elements in the picture.

1177
01:03:30,840 --> 01:03:35,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, when they find these bodies, Breen expresses alarm,

1178
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:38,240
Speaker 3: but quator Mass assures him that the creatures are dead,

1179
01:03:38,400 --> 01:03:43,040
Speaker 3: long dead. Roney immediately starts making arrangements to study these

1180
01:03:43,080 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 3: things scientifically. It has to be done fast, because they've

1181
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:49,400
Speaker 3: been sealed away for millions of years, and now that

1182
01:03:49,480 --> 01:03:52,040
Speaker 3: they have come into contact with the Earth's atmosphere, they

1183
01:03:52,080 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 3: are rapidly decomposing, and we almost get to see that

1184
01:03:54,880 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 3: happening in real time. Ronney and quator Mass are very

1185
01:03:59,080 --> 01:04:02,920
Speaker 3: keen to study and understand these creatures. They start to

1186
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 3: bring the bodies out of the ship themselves, like they're

1187
01:04:05,120 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 3: reaching in themselves and just pulling them out, trying to

1188
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 3: put them down. Notably, while they're doing that, Breen shows

1189
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 3: just evident disgust.

1190
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the disgust is great here because obviously these

1191
01:04:17,600 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 2: things are gross. They're talking about how they smell like

1192
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:23,160
Speaker 2: dead fish and so forth. But also like, very clearly

1193
01:04:24,080 --> 01:04:29,720
Speaker 2: this is a sudden roadblock to the logical militaristic expressway

1194
01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,479
Speaker 2: that that brain has been traveling on this whole time.

1195
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 2: Like this, these are like clearly aliens. Dude, it's gonna

1196
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:43,000
Speaker 2: be much harder to really advance this whole unexploded bomb theory.

1197
01:04:43,080 --> 01:04:46,800
Speaker 3: Now, yeah, they both invalidate his theory, like they disagree

1198
01:04:46,840 --> 01:04:50,120
Speaker 3: with his interpretation of what this site was. But also

1199
01:04:51,000 --> 01:04:54,520
Speaker 3: I think it's supposed to comment again on one of

1200
01:04:54,520 --> 01:04:56,840
Speaker 3: the themes of this movie, which is the clash between

1201
01:04:57,120 --> 01:05:02,240
Speaker 3: the scientific temperament and the militaristic temperament, you know, where

1202
01:05:02,360 --> 01:05:05,160
Speaker 3: the scientist sees something that is new and wants to

1203
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,920
Speaker 3: understand it, and the you know, the military temperament, at

1204
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:11,800
Speaker 3: least is presented in this film, sees something new and

1205
01:05:12,080 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 3: doesn't want to take the time to understand it just

1206
01:05:14,200 --> 01:05:15,280
Speaker 3: wants to destroy it.

1207
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, or at the very least figure out where

1208
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,640
Speaker 2: it fits into the pre existing military dynamics.

1209
01:05:21,840 --> 01:05:24,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a funny part where when they're bringing these

1210
01:05:24,840 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 3: alien bodies out there already like dripping as if it's

1211
01:05:27,520 --> 01:05:29,919
Speaker 3: like melting ice cream, and one of the soldiers gets

1212
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:32,440
Speaker 3: this alien goop dripping on him while he's laying out

1213
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 3: a sandbag underneath it. There was almost a little bit

1214
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:38,200
Speaker 3: of it reminded me of earlier this week in our

1215
01:05:38,200 --> 01:05:40,560
Speaker 3: Core episodes where we were talking about Alfred Russell Wallace

1216
01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:43,640
Speaker 3: in his room covered in ants, where it's like he

1217
01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,280
Speaker 3: would find a specimen and he's like where to put it?

1218
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,200
Speaker 3: Where will it go?

1219
01:05:47,560 --> 01:05:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, because this thing's dripping everywhere. And I do like

1220
01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:52,840
Speaker 2: the urgency they end up showing because they're like, this thing,

1221
01:05:52,920 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 2: these things are rotting, We've got to preserve it quickly,

1222
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:58,240
Speaker 2: and so they're working really quickly to get things preserved

1223
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 2: in liquids and in bottles and stuff. For get some

1224
01:06:00,640 --> 01:06:03,040
Speaker 2: specimen jars go in and so forth.

1225
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:15,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, So the paleontology team, they're trying to preserve the specimens,

1226
01:06:15,560 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 3: but the specimens are really breaking down. Quickly, we see

1227
01:06:19,040 --> 01:06:22,320
Speaker 3: a lot of them leaking green juice and thoracic sludge,

1228
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:26,160
Speaker 3: legs just crumbling off in people's hands. Ronny and quator

1229
01:06:26,200 --> 01:06:29,800
Speaker 3: Mass discuss where these creatures come from, but also they

1230
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:33,000
Speaker 3: talk about this is an interesting little moment, kind of

1231
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:36,280
Speaker 3: understated even, but they talk about why these creatures look

1232
01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:41,480
Speaker 3: so familiar. Quator Mass says, isn't it odd how similar

1233
01:06:41,600 --> 01:06:45,160
Speaker 3: they look to gargoyles and devils that have appeared in

1234
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:48,320
Speaker 3: human art for millennia. So it's almost as if we

1235
01:06:48,440 --> 01:06:52,240
Speaker 3: knew these creatures before the discovery, as if from our dreams.

1236
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:55,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where we begin to creep into

1237
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:58,080
Speaker 2: some of those cosmic horror ideas, where this thing that

1238
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:02,560
Speaker 2: we found is not only it's not just something entirely new,

1239
01:07:02,640 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 2: it's something that perhaps explains other things about our entire existence.

1240
01:07:08,440 --> 01:07:11,440
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. The thing that's more frightening than the unknown

1241
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:14,440
Speaker 3: is the thing that you didn't know that you did know.

1242
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, what if we have been dreaming of these

1243
01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:21,800
Speaker 2: things throughout human history? How and why?

1244
01:07:22,120 --> 01:07:27,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they do some scientific analysis, and the scientists

1245
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:30,080
Speaker 3: figure out that these insectoid bodies were built for a

1246
01:07:30,120 --> 01:07:34,840
Speaker 3: world with low gravity and a thin atmosphere. Immediately, quator

1247
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 3: Mass is like, sounds like Mars. Yeah, he's got Mars

1248
01:07:38,280 --> 01:07:41,680
Speaker 3: on the brain, And they start to sort of turn

1249
01:07:41,760 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 3: this over in their minds. Mars is dead now, but

1250
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,040
Speaker 3: perhaps millions of years ago, could it have been full

1251
01:07:48,080 --> 01:07:51,080
Speaker 3: of life. There's a little exchange between quator Mass and

1252
01:07:51,120 --> 01:07:53,960
Speaker 3: Ronnie where quator Mass says, the will to survive it's

1253
01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 3: an odd phenomenon, Ronie. If we found out Earth was doomed,

1254
01:07:58,880 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 3: say by climbat changes, what would we do about it?

1255
01:08:03,440 --> 01:08:07,880
Speaker 3: Ronie says nothing, just go on squabbling as usual, And

1256
01:08:07,920 --> 01:08:10,800
Speaker 3: then quator Mass says, yes, but if we weren't men.

1257
01:08:12,360 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is pretty great because it is darkly humorous,

1258
01:08:16,840 --> 01:08:18,680
Speaker 2: but it also gets to the point like, yeah, what

1259
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:23,080
Speaker 2: would non human entities that had an entirely different worldview

1260
01:08:23,120 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 2: and entirely different social structure, how might they have responded

1261
01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:29,840
Speaker 2: to some sort of coming apocalypse?

1262
01:08:30,080 --> 01:08:32,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, And quator Mass here builds in the assumption that

1263
01:08:32,920 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 3: maybe other aliens wouldn't have been as fractious and emotional

1264
01:08:39,320 --> 01:08:43,439
Speaker 3: and unable to focus on the common task at hand

1265
01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:44,000
Speaker 3: as we are.

1266
01:08:44,400 --> 01:08:46,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, especially if we're dealing with something that you know,

1267
01:08:46,760 --> 01:08:48,600
Speaker 2: forra all intents and purposes might be some sort of

1268
01:08:48,720 --> 01:08:49,799
Speaker 2: use social insect.

1269
01:08:50,120 --> 01:08:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah. Anyway, So quator Mass, Judd, and Roney decide that

1270
01:08:54,840 --> 01:08:58,799
Speaker 3: they should communicate directly to the press, so they release

1271
01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:02,360
Speaker 3: photos and details to journalists, and the papers go wild

1272
01:09:02,439 --> 01:09:05,479
Speaker 3: with reports about the find. And we learn in the

1273
01:09:05,479 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 3: following scene about quat Maas's interpretation of what's going on here.

1274
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 3: This is what Quatermass thinks five million years ago there

1275
01:09:13,640 --> 01:09:17,759
Speaker 3: was life on Mars. Quote suppose that at that time

1276
01:09:18,080 --> 01:09:21,240
Speaker 3: there were living beings on Mars with techniques that let

1277
01:09:21,240 --> 01:09:23,880
Speaker 3: them visit the Earth at a time when the most

1278
01:09:23,920 --> 01:09:28,640
Speaker 3: highly evolved creatures here, our own ancestors, were only a

1279
01:09:28,760 --> 01:09:32,439
Speaker 3: type of Pleiocene ape. His theory goes on, but at

1280
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:37,240
Speaker 3: the same time, Mars was dying, so its natural environment

1281
01:09:37,320 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 3: had been degraded to the point where Mars would soon

1282
01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:46,080
Speaker 3: no longer be able to support life. So Quatermass says

1283
01:09:46,120 --> 01:09:49,519
Speaker 3: that the Martians quote may have wanted to found another

1284
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 3: colony when their own world was doomed, but couldn't endure

1285
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:58,599
Speaker 3: our atmosphere, so they experimented. And the idea here is

1286
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:03,800
Speaker 3: that the Martians took hominids from prehistoric Earth back to

1287
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:09,200
Speaker 3: Mars and changed them, altered them, quator Mass says, quote

1288
01:10:09,520 --> 01:10:14,200
Speaker 3: altered by selective breeding, atomic surgery methods, we can't guess,

1289
01:10:14,520 --> 01:10:19,200
Speaker 3: and with new faculties instilled in them high intelligence, perhaps

1290
01:10:19,520 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 3: something else. So quator Mass is saying that in this way,

1291
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 3: the Martians could in effect colonize Earth by proxy. They

1292
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:32,960
Speaker 3: could not physically themselves survive the conditions on Earth, couldn't

1293
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 3: survive our atmosphere, our gravity and all that, but they

1294
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:41,759
Speaker 3: could take naturally Earth adapted life forms, remake those life

1295
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 3: forms in their own image mentally at least, and then

1296
01:10:45,479 --> 01:10:51,160
Speaker 3: seed them back on Earth. Fascinating idea, quator Mass says,

1297
01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:54,160
Speaker 3: if I'm right, we've come on a single instance, probably

1298
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 3: an accident, a landing that went wrong and they all died.

1299
01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:02,960
Speaker 3: The Thames Valley was a swamp then, and so that's

1300
01:11:03,000 --> 01:11:06,439
Speaker 3: his explanation. But in the scene where he explains this,

1301
01:11:06,520 --> 01:11:09,040
Speaker 3: we learned the fact that quater Mass and Rony went

1302
01:11:09,080 --> 01:11:13,080
Speaker 3: public with this idea before briefing quator Mass's superiors in

1303
01:11:13,120 --> 01:11:17,600
Speaker 3: the government proves mighty displeasing to those superiors. There's like

1304
01:11:17,600 --> 01:11:19,519
Speaker 3: a scene where he's being grilled by the Minister of

1305
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:22,720
Speaker 3: Defense and the Minister of Defense says, you realize what

1306
01:11:22,800 --> 01:11:25,599
Speaker 3: you were implying that we owe our human condition here

1307
01:11:25,640 --> 01:11:29,280
Speaker 3: to the intervention of insects and quator mass says I

1308
01:11:29,320 --> 01:11:31,439
Speaker 3: suppose I am yeah.

1309
01:11:31,479 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 2: I mean you can understand that the government would be

1310
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:37,000
Speaker 2: a little concerned with how the public might react to this.

1311
01:11:37,200 --> 01:11:40,640
Speaker 2: Like again, this is like a cosmic horror revelation that

1312
01:11:41,479 --> 01:11:45,639
Speaker 2: there's nothing really anything noble about humanity. Is only because

1313
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:49,479
Speaker 2: we were kind of like a plan B for a

1314
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 2: dying race on Mars. They could realize they couldn't just

1315
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,360
Speaker 2: move to Mars, but they could create something that was

1316
01:11:55,760 --> 01:11:59,200
Speaker 2: maybe a distant echo of themselves here.

1317
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:03,680
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, it's an intelligent designed theory of human origins,

1318
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:07,799
Speaker 3: but not with a supernatural creator, with a Martian creator

1319
01:12:07,840 --> 01:12:11,920
Speaker 3: that was trying to essentially to make an alien animal

1320
01:12:12,000 --> 01:12:14,440
Speaker 3: into something like a copy of themselves.

1321
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:18,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, which, and it's such an interesting concept explored

1322
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 2: here because it's not I mean, we can not everything

1323
01:12:22,320 --> 01:12:24,559
Speaker 2: is completely explained, I want to be clear, And there

1324
01:12:24,600 --> 01:12:26,720
Speaker 2: are various interpretations you could get in it, maybe lean

1325
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 2: more in this direction, but it's not like they were

1326
01:12:29,800 --> 01:12:32,400
Speaker 2: creating these epe things as far as we know right

1327
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:36,200
Speaker 2: to then, like transfer their own minds into them it was,

1328
01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:39,759
Speaker 2: I mean maybe, but it's not clear. It's not clear.

1329
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,559
Speaker 2: So so it's possible that that's what they were doing.

1330
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:44,559
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, it's entirely possible that it

1331
01:12:44,600 --> 01:12:48,400
Speaker 2: was like, well, life is ending, we're doomed. Let's create

1332
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,719
Speaker 2: some sort of life and that will be our legacy

1333
01:12:50,760 --> 01:12:54,200
Speaker 2: on another world. And maybe not even in the most

1334
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,840
Speaker 2: benevolent way. I mean, if it is benevolent, it's a

1335
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 2: very distant benevolence. Like life is pretty cool. Let's make

1336
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:01,880
Speaker 2: sure there's still life somewhere in the Solar system. It

1337
01:13:01,960 --> 01:13:04,760
Speaker 2: might be just like, well, you know, this is this

1338
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 2: is going to be like our living tombstone for our

1339
01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,400
Speaker 2: own civilization.

1340
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 3: Yeah. The kind of the exact form that sort of

1341
01:13:11,840 --> 01:13:17,000
Speaker 3: mental memorial stone takes in us will get more complicated

1342
01:13:17,040 --> 01:13:22,080
Speaker 3: as the film goes on. So the government officials are

1343
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:26,839
Speaker 3: especially annoyed with quator Mass because Colonel Breen has actually

1344
01:13:26,880 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 3: a quite different interpretation of this find, one that the

1345
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 3: government at this point favors. Breen says, no, no, no, no, no,

1346
01:13:35,200 --> 01:13:38,280
Speaker 3: this is all a lot of nonsense. This craft is

1347
01:13:38,360 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 3: quite indeed a Nazi rocket left over from the war.

1348
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 3: His idea is after Germany started to lose, they switched

1349
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:53,120
Speaker 3: tactics and they attempted a propaganda operation to sow confusion

1350
01:13:53,280 --> 01:13:56,200
Speaker 3: and fear among the British public and to take their

1351
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 3: focus off of winning the war. So they sent an

1352
01:13:59,600 --> 01:14:03,960
Speaker 3: experience mental rocket packed with weird, fake alien bodies and

1353
01:14:04,080 --> 01:14:08,240
Speaker 3: altered human skeletons. Except the only thing that went wrong

1354
01:14:08,439 --> 01:14:11,640
Speaker 3: is instead of discovering it when they were supposed to

1355
01:14:12,479 --> 01:14:15,240
Speaker 3: right after it landed, the British did not discover it

1356
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 3: until now they were supposed to stumble on it immediately.

1357
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 3: The purpose was to cause exactly the kind of public

1358
01:14:22,040 --> 01:14:25,800
Speaker 3: fervor and media feeding frenzy that quater Mass has in

1359
01:14:25,840 --> 01:14:28,880
Speaker 3: fact caused with his statements to the press. And I

1360
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:33,960
Speaker 3: gotta say, I mean, I love this narrative, but quator Mass,

1361
01:14:34,080 --> 01:14:36,800
Speaker 3: you are here doing the thing that so many scientists

1362
01:14:36,840 --> 01:14:40,920
Speaker 3: in reality hate when one of them has a wildly

1363
01:14:41,000 --> 01:14:45,280
Speaker 3: speculative interpretation of something and instead of taking it to

1364
01:14:45,360 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 3: their peers and colleagues for discussion and criticism, you know,

1365
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:52,360
Speaker 3: considering questions like does this really fit the evidence? Is

1366
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:56,120
Speaker 3: it plausible? Are there more likely explanations? Instead of that,

1367
01:14:56,160 --> 01:14:59,599
Speaker 3: they just run straight to the popular media essentially trying

1368
01:14:59,600 --> 01:15:02,840
Speaker 3: to buy I pass the comment from people who have

1369
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,639
Speaker 3: the relevant background knowledge to explore the questions I just mentioned.

1370
01:15:07,000 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 3: But okay, you know it's a movie. Quator Mass is

1371
01:15:09,560 --> 01:15:12,920
Speaker 3: obviously right. I did just want to flag example number

1372
01:15:12,960 --> 01:15:16,720
Speaker 3: one million that what the heroic scientists protagonist does in

1373
01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:20,160
Speaker 3: a sci fi movie is very often revolting crank behavior

1374
01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 3: in real life.

1375
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:24,280
Speaker 2: Plus, I want to highlight here that you know, Breen

1376
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,920
Speaker 2: is clearly you know again, as a character with tunnel vision,

1377
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,920
Speaker 2: and is is in this point you manipulating things, and

1378
01:15:30,960 --> 01:15:33,960
Speaker 2: it's essentially trying to begin a cover up. But at

1379
01:15:34,000 --> 01:15:37,200
Speaker 2: the same time, his counter hypothesis, this is what we

1380
01:15:37,240 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 2: alluded to earlier in the episode, is the one that

1381
01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:43,720
Speaker 2: would be more likely in real life, Like this is

1382
01:15:43,720 --> 01:15:46,280
Speaker 2: the one that if you were presented with these two possibilities,

1383
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:50,000
Speaker 2: Breen's on the surface would make more sense because it

1384
01:15:50,040 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 2: requires fewer speculative leaps.

1385
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:56,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. It requires many fewer assumptions of things

1386
01:15:56,120 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 3: not currently in evidence. So the main one being that

1387
01:15:59,720 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 3: there Nazi rocket program that had some kind of technology

1388
01:16:03,520 --> 01:16:06,400
Speaker 3: that has since not become known to the British right.

1389
01:16:06,479 --> 01:16:10,120
Speaker 2: And I think it is worth noting though that clearly

1390
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 2: if this idea is pushed forward eventually, if they're allowed to,

1391
01:16:16,439 --> 01:16:18,360
Speaker 2: there would be voices that would say, well, there's no

1392
01:16:18,439 --> 01:16:21,080
Speaker 2: record of this type of ship ever, this type of

1393
01:16:21,160 --> 01:16:24,280
Speaker 2: rocket ever being built by the Germans. All likewise, you

1394
01:16:24,360 --> 01:16:27,000
Speaker 2: might have some lab results come in and say, well,

1395
01:16:27,040 --> 01:16:30,680
Speaker 2: there's no way that these creatures were essentially Fiji mermaids,

1396
01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:33,479
Speaker 2: like their tissue doesn't match anything that we have here

1397
01:16:33,520 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 2: on Earth and so forth. So I'm not sure that

1398
01:16:36,320 --> 01:16:42,120
Speaker 2: the Nazi propaganda attack explanation would hold water in the

1399
01:16:42,160 --> 01:16:46,080
Speaker 2: long term, but you can easily see how if it's

1400
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 2: pushed and other voices are suppressed, this could be the

1401
01:16:49,400 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 2: cover up.

1402
01:16:50,120 --> 01:16:53,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. I mean, if you assume this situation

1403
01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 3: were to actually happen as pretty much as soon as

1404
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,160
Speaker 3: you got to go, you know, like a full biological

1405
01:16:58,200 --> 01:17:00,720
Speaker 3: work up of these alien remains, figure out this is

1406
01:17:00,760 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 3: real biological materials, you know, Yeah, this is not like

1407
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:08,800
Speaker 3: paper mache or something, even though it looks like paper mache. Yeah,

1408
01:17:08,880 --> 01:17:13,000
Speaker 3: But in the meantime, let's see to prove Breen's Nazi

1409
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:16,719
Speaker 3: propaganda theory is correct. The Defense Minister plans to hold

1410
01:17:16,720 --> 01:17:19,320
Speaker 3: a public press conference where the ship is going to

1411
01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:22,679
Speaker 3: be revealed in full to the public. I forget why

1412
01:17:22,760 --> 01:17:25,960
Speaker 3: they think this will vindicate Breen. I don't know.

1413
01:17:26,320 --> 01:17:28,120
Speaker 2: Well, when we see bits of it later, they're even

1414
01:17:28,160 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 2: like saying, well, we're in touch with like the West

1415
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:33,320
Speaker 2: German government, and they're about to provide us with some

1416
01:17:33,360 --> 01:17:36,280
Speaker 2: evidence to back up what we're telling you. So they

1417
01:17:36,320 --> 01:17:40,320
Speaker 2: seem to have some they have some steps planned here.

1418
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:43,360
Speaker 2: And it's interesting too to think about this film and

1419
01:17:43,360 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 2: the way it utilizes the press, you know, like the

1420
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 2: scientists here of course the heroes. The press seems a

1421
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:53,360
Speaker 2: little more neutral and is there to potentially be manipulated

1422
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:54,400
Speaker 2: by either side.

1423
01:17:54,720 --> 01:17:58,479
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean throughout the movie you see different actors. Essentially,

1424
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:03,000
Speaker 3: the two main camps in the movie, the scientists and

1425
01:18:03,000 --> 01:18:06,479
Speaker 3: the military people both trying to use the press to

1426
01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:07,360
Speaker 3: their advantage.

1427
01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:07,680
Speaker 4: Yea.

1428
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,120
Speaker 3: They are trying to one up the other camp on

1429
01:18:10,200 --> 01:18:12,160
Speaker 3: their appeals to the press, so they can get the

1430
01:18:12,200 --> 01:18:14,240
Speaker 3: press on their side, so they can get the public

1431
01:18:14,280 --> 01:18:14,960
Speaker 3: on their side.

1432
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the press is just hungry. Yeah, they just

1433
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:18,439
Speaker 2: got to put out papers.

1434
01:18:18,880 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 3: So there are some developments after this, During some additional

1435
01:18:23,240 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 3: work in the tunnel, the ship once again begins to

1436
01:18:26,360 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 3: vibrate like the time it did when it you know,

1437
01:18:29,040 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 3: made Colonel breenpuke and the drill operator Sladdin seems to

1438
01:18:34,720 --> 01:18:40,400
Speaker 3: become possessed. He like something comes over him, his eyes

1439
01:18:40,439 --> 01:18:43,280
Speaker 3: go glassy, and he runs out into the street, seeming

1440
01:18:43,439 --> 01:18:47,600
Speaker 3: along the way to randomly blast and levitate objects with

1441
01:18:47,720 --> 01:18:51,080
Speaker 3: his mind. He turns into sort of carry like he's

1442
01:18:51,280 --> 01:18:55,480
Speaker 3: a zombie carry on the loose, until he finally collapses

1443
01:18:55,520 --> 01:18:58,559
Speaker 3: in a churchyard and is taken in by a priest.

1444
01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:01,800
Speaker 3: Quator Mass and Judd follow him after this, they come

1445
01:19:01,840 --> 01:19:06,760
Speaker 3: to collect him, and Sladin explains how while he was

1446
01:19:06,800 --> 01:19:10,839
Speaker 3: in his possessed state, he had visions he saw insect

1447
01:19:10,960 --> 01:19:14,680
Speaker 3: like creatures with devil horns against a brown sky, leaping

1448
01:19:14,720 --> 01:19:17,240
Speaker 3: in the air, up and up and up, and he

1449
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,080
Speaker 3: had a feeling that damnation was upon him and he

1450
01:19:20,200 --> 01:19:23,920
Speaker 3: had to escape this place, whatever it was. Of course,

1451
01:19:23,960 --> 01:19:27,759
Speaker 3: you know, in describing his environment, quator Mass is clearly

1452
01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:30,200
Speaker 3: like he's talking about Mars. He had visions of Mars.

1453
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,240
Speaker 3: So it's like it's almost like visions from this alien

1454
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,960
Speaker 3: planet have been they're being transmitted now through the ship

1455
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:41,519
Speaker 3: somehow into us, and these visions are of a dying

1456
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,720
Speaker 3: planet and a panicking race of creatures that are at

1457
01:19:45,760 --> 01:19:49,679
Speaker 3: their end and trying to get out anyway. After this incident,

1458
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 3: quater Mass has an idea. He thinks he can prove

1459
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:55,920
Speaker 3: what the ship really is by using coming back to it,

1460
01:19:56,160 --> 01:20:01,800
Speaker 3: the Roney analysis the helmet, the machine that the paleontologists

1461
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 3: used to read minds with a helmet connected to a

1462
01:20:04,680 --> 01:20:09,040
Speaker 3: bunch of wires. So what they're going to do looks

1463
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,240
Speaker 3: like this. They're going to put quator Mass himself inside

1464
01:20:12,240 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 3: the alien ship and they're going to try to get

1465
01:20:14,960 --> 01:20:18,680
Speaker 3: it to transmit images of the Martian apocalypse to him

1466
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:22,080
Speaker 3: while he's wearing the helmet, so that his thoughts will

1467
01:20:22,120 --> 01:20:25,519
Speaker 3: be sent to a TV screen where they will be

1468
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:29,680
Speaker 3: recorded for later playback. Huh yeah, yeah, just stick with us.

1469
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,679
Speaker 3: They try this, but the ship, for whatever reason, decides

1470
01:20:33,720 --> 01:20:37,920
Speaker 3: to transmit to Barber Judd instead of quater Mass, and

1471
01:20:37,960 --> 01:20:41,200
Speaker 3: the images it sends into her mind's eye are horrifying.

1472
01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 3: She is shaken, and quator Mass records them and then

1473
01:20:44,760 --> 01:20:49,000
Speaker 3: takes these images to playback for this group of government

1474
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:53,120
Speaker 3: high command. They show horrible violence on the surface of Mars.

1475
01:20:53,160 --> 01:20:56,280
Speaker 3: This is one element where when we actually see the footage.

1476
01:20:56,320 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 3: You can't really see all that much, and it doesn't

1477
01:20:59,200 --> 01:21:01,400
Speaker 3: look all that great. I kind of wish it could

1478
01:21:01,400 --> 01:21:05,600
Speaker 3: have been more visually appealing here, but yeah, it is

1479
01:21:05,640 --> 01:21:08,720
Speaker 3: implied at least that what they see does look horrifying.

1480
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:13,760
Speaker 3: It's Martians killing Martians, and Q interprets what is being

1481
01:21:13,800 --> 01:21:18,519
Speaker 3: shown here as a ritualistic mass murder where Martians believed

1482
01:21:18,560 --> 01:21:23,479
Speaker 3: that they had to purge their society of mutations. The

1483
01:21:23,520 --> 01:21:25,960
Speaker 3: government dudes are just like, nah, whatever.

1484
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:30,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, they don't see the threat yet.

1485
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 3: Anyway, we're starting to collect even more strange pieces that

1486
01:21:34,680 --> 01:21:39,240
Speaker 3: there's something more sinister going on with the Martian society,

1487
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:42,559
Speaker 3: with what its culture means, with what it's trying to

1488
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:47,000
Speaker 3: sort of deliver down to us as its ancestors. It

1489
01:21:47,000 --> 01:21:51,280
Speaker 3: seems to include not just sort of you know, uplifting us,

1490
01:21:51,439 --> 01:21:56,080
Speaker 3: like giving us higher intelligence, but also maybe implanting kind

1491
01:21:56,120 --> 01:21:59,240
Speaker 3: of little sleeper cell agents in our brain that can

1492
01:21:59,280 --> 01:22:02,679
Speaker 3: be awaken by the beacon of this ship in which

1493
01:22:02,720 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 3: we have visions of Mars, we are possessed by images

1494
01:22:06,360 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 3: of these kind of you know, purge like activities, and

1495
01:22:11,560 --> 01:22:16,640
Speaker 3: that it also awakens latent powers beyond just regular human intelligence.

1496
01:22:17,000 --> 01:22:21,479
Speaker 3: Stuff that is apparently there in human beings but is

1497
01:22:21,520 --> 01:22:25,639
Speaker 3: not normally accessible unless we're being activated by the signal

1498
01:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,080
Speaker 3: from the ship. And those powers include things like telekinesis.

1499
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:30,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1500
01:22:30,320 --> 01:22:33,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, so we get to the climax and there

1501
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 3: is a crowd gathered for the unveiling of the ship.

1502
01:22:37,120 --> 01:22:40,360
Speaker 3: But uh oh, there's a problem. While they're getting things

1503
01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:43,360
Speaker 3: ready and the crowd is assembled, they've got this big

1504
01:22:43,400 --> 01:22:46,679
Speaker 3: electrical generator that they're running a wire through the ship

1505
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 3: for some reason, and it I think a wire makes

1506
01:22:50,120 --> 01:22:54,719
Speaker 3: contact and it starts inadvertently feeding power into the ship,

1507
01:22:55,479 --> 01:22:59,040
Speaker 3: and something changes. The ship has had little blips now

1508
01:22:59,040 --> 01:23:02,479
Speaker 3: and then, but now that it's getting a strong power source,

1509
01:23:02,800 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 3: the ship comes fully online and it is activated now

1510
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,200
Speaker 3: and it's doing something way more than it was before.

1511
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:14,400
Speaker 3: The ship powers up, and the assembled crowd panics and

1512
01:23:14,720 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 3: seemingly starts to go mad, running out of the tunnel

1513
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:18,799
Speaker 3: into the streets above.

1514
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:22,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where it really becomes really becomes essential.

1515
01:23:22,360 --> 01:23:24,240
Speaker 2: Something that again we've already begun to learn is that

1516
01:23:24,360 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 2: some people are affected and some people are not, And

1517
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:30,880
Speaker 2: some people are turned into psychic space zombies, others are not.

1518
01:23:31,320 --> 01:23:34,640
Speaker 3: Most people are affected, it seems there are a few exceptions,

1519
01:23:35,520 --> 01:23:38,040
Speaker 3: so most people are affected, and they turn into this

1520
01:23:38,120 --> 01:23:41,320
Speaker 3: panicking crowd that's running around with you know, glazed eyes,

1521
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,439
Speaker 3: just staring wildly ahead. We don't know exactly what the

1522
01:23:44,479 --> 01:23:47,760
Speaker 3: intentions of the possessed crowd members are yet, we'll learn

1523
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 3: in a moment. First of all, we see that when

1524
01:23:51,000 --> 01:23:55,240
Speaker 3: the ship activates, Breen is seemingly hypnotized. He's lured to

1525
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:58,120
Speaker 3: it as if by a magnet. He like walks up

1526
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,320
Speaker 3: to it and then just sort of kneels down in

1527
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,960
Speaker 3: front of it, where he will be cooked alive by

1528
01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,160
Speaker 3: the energy radiating off of the ship.

1529
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like we just we cut to another scene

1530
01:24:08,200 --> 01:24:10,160
Speaker 2: and eventually we cut back to him and he's just

1531
01:24:10,200 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 2: been microwave there, and then he just tumbles on into

1532
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:13,439
Speaker 2: the pit.

1533
01:24:22,760 --> 01:24:26,479
Speaker 3: So what happens to the crowds. The crowds, we witness

1534
01:24:26,560 --> 01:24:35,560
Speaker 3: them seemingly turn into these groups of psychic manic hunters

1535
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 3: prowling the streets, finding random other humans and unleashing telekinetic

1536
01:24:42,160 --> 01:24:47,040
Speaker 3: bombardments of broken concrete and rubble against their former neighbors

1537
01:24:47,040 --> 01:24:50,519
Speaker 3: and friends. And they're standing there just kind of stock still,

1538
01:24:50,600 --> 01:24:53,240
Speaker 3: staring at them and launching with their minds, all of

1539
01:24:53,280 --> 01:24:57,120
Speaker 3: these bombardments on them. What why is that happening? And

1540
01:24:57,160 --> 01:25:00,679
Speaker 3: then then there's also a direct confrontation between water Mass

1541
01:25:00,680 --> 01:25:03,879
Speaker 3: and Ronnie. Quator Mass has been seized up in the crowds.

1542
01:25:03,920 --> 01:25:08,719
Speaker 3: He's one of them. He's running around. Ronnie grabs hold

1543
01:25:08,760 --> 01:25:11,559
Speaker 3: of quator Mass and pulls him into like into a

1544
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:14,760
Speaker 3: cafe off of the street. And at first quator Mass

1545
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:17,920
Speaker 3: tries to kill Ronie. He's like, you know, he's reaching

1546
01:25:17,960 --> 01:25:20,360
Speaker 3: as if to strangle him, but somehow he is able

1547
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,559
Speaker 3: to fight off the mind control and he snaps out

1548
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,679
Speaker 3: of it. He gets him a whiskey, he gets oh, yeah,

1549
01:25:26,720 --> 01:25:30,440
Speaker 3: that's right. Yeah, they do have some medicinal whiskey. Uh. Strangely,

1550
01:25:30,600 --> 01:25:33,880
Speaker 3: Roney seems completely unaffected. This is what you were alluding to.

1551
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:37,439
Speaker 3: He doesn't understand why everyone else seems to have gone mad,

1552
01:25:38,000 --> 01:25:40,560
Speaker 3: and they discuss things. Rob let me know if you

1553
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:44,519
Speaker 3: had the same understanding that I did. It seems that

1554
01:25:45,040 --> 01:25:47,879
Speaker 3: what they land on is that while we are all

1555
01:25:48,160 --> 01:25:53,759
Speaker 3: all humans are descended from the Martian altered apes of Earth,

1556
01:25:54,439 --> 01:25:58,720
Speaker 3: perhaps some of us have since then mutated so that

1557
01:25:58,920 --> 01:26:03,000
Speaker 3: we the you that have mutated no longer possessed the

1558
01:26:03,000 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 3: Martian mind control gene, leaving those few mutants outside the

1559
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:12,160
Speaker 3: psychic influence of the Beacon ship, and Rony just happens

1560
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,760
Speaker 3: to be one of those mutants. Those mutants are the

1561
01:26:15,840 --> 01:26:19,360
Speaker 3: people who the crowds of psychic thralls in the streets

1562
01:26:19,400 --> 01:26:24,719
Speaker 3: are now hunting to destroy with these telekinetic bombardments. And

1563
01:26:24,880 --> 01:26:28,680
Speaker 3: that would be consistent with quator Mass's earlier interpretation of

1564
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:31,760
Speaker 3: the visions of Mars as like the Martians hunting each other,

1565
01:26:31,880 --> 01:26:33,879
Speaker 3: hunting mutants within their own hives.

1566
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 2: Mm. Yeah, So the idea here would be this is

1567
01:26:36,320 --> 01:26:40,400
Speaker 2: something that was an important value to the Martians that

1568
01:26:40,600 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 2: was instilled into their operation here on Earth again and

1569
01:26:44,760 --> 01:26:51,439
Speaker 2: seemingly with perhaps not nefarious intentions, because the idea, I

1570
01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:54,160
Speaker 2: guess is, Hey, we're going to establish this population that

1571
01:26:54,200 --> 01:26:57,280
Speaker 2: we have created to some degree in our image, and

1572
01:26:57,320 --> 01:26:59,559
Speaker 2: we don't want it to get too corrupted over time.

1573
01:27:00,120 --> 01:27:02,519
Speaker 2: It's going to need we need to have this bush

1574
01:27:02,600 --> 01:27:08,040
Speaker 2: sort of self prune over the ensuing millennia.

1575
01:27:07,560 --> 01:27:10,760
Speaker 3: Right, so when the ship gets enough power applied to it,

1576
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:14,559
Speaker 3: it can turn into this beacon and activate the crowds

1577
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:19,000
Speaker 3: to attack their mutant cohort Now, one thing I think

1578
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 3: is worth noting is that quator Mass is our protagonist here.

1579
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 3: But quat Mass, while he does have some mental fortitude

1580
01:27:26,240 --> 01:27:28,360
Speaker 3: and is able in moments to kind of fight off

1581
01:27:28,360 --> 01:27:31,360
Speaker 3: the influence of the ship, he is overall still susceptible

1582
01:27:31,439 --> 01:27:33,720
Speaker 3: to it. Like he's not one of the mutants who's

1583
01:27:33,760 --> 01:27:36,920
Speaker 3: immune to it. He's like he's potentially part of the

1584
01:27:36,960 --> 01:27:42,600
Speaker 3: attacking crowd. Yeah. Yeah. But after this, there's another development,

1585
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:46,960
Speaker 3: which is that an image rises over the skyline of

1586
01:27:47,000 --> 01:27:52,799
Speaker 3: the city. There appears a gigantic, monstrous projection, a white,

1587
01:27:53,360 --> 01:27:57,240
Speaker 3: glowing tower of energy in the shape of one of

1588
01:27:57,280 --> 01:28:02,479
Speaker 3: these insectoid martian devils. And together quator Mass and Ronnie

1589
01:28:02,520 --> 01:28:07,120
Speaker 3: they behold this projection and they figure out what it means,

1590
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,040
Speaker 3: and they come up with a plan. I love this is.

1591
01:28:10,760 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 3: I think this is like such a weird out of nowhere,

1592
01:28:13,520 --> 01:28:18,519
Speaker 3: almost beautiful weaving of science themes and demon lore. I

1593
01:28:18,560 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 3: can't remember which one of them suggested. I think maybe

1594
01:28:20,720 --> 01:28:23,680
Speaker 3: it's quator Mass who says that the demonic forces of

1595
01:28:23,680 --> 01:28:26,879
Speaker 3: the world were always said to be vulnerable to cold iron.

1596
01:28:27,760 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 3: What if that's because the devil was a projection of

1597
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:36,200
Speaker 3: electrical energy? And it could be discharged to the ground

1598
01:28:36,360 --> 01:28:37,719
Speaker 3: by contact with iron.

1599
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:41,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love this as well because it just it

1600
01:28:41,520 --> 01:28:46,479
Speaker 2: fits nicely. It's wild, but it fits nicely, snugly between

1601
01:28:46,520 --> 01:28:49,439
Speaker 2: sci fi and demonic lore.

1602
01:28:49,720 --> 01:28:52,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing. So that's what they come up with, and

1603
01:28:52,840 --> 01:28:55,479
Speaker 3: they put a plan in place where Ronny is going

1604
01:28:55,520 --> 01:28:58,879
Speaker 3: to climb up on a crane, it's big iron crane

1605
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:02,720
Speaker 3: and knock it in to the towering devil figure. And

1606
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:07,160
Speaker 3: the plan works. It does indeed discharge. After the energy

1607
01:29:07,280 --> 01:29:11,920
Speaker 3: is dissipated, the madness suddenly subsides and like the crowd,

1608
01:29:12,000 --> 01:29:14,840
Speaker 3: seemingly revert to normal, and we get to see our

1609
01:29:14,880 --> 01:29:19,000
Speaker 3: remaining two protagonists, Quator Mass and Barbara Judd. They're just

1610
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:22,639
Speaker 3: left reeling in the street, catching their breath and trying

1611
01:29:22,680 --> 01:29:25,200
Speaker 3: to make sense of all that has happened it to them,

1612
01:29:25,280 --> 01:29:29,120
Speaker 3: and I think we can infer trying to make sense

1613
01:29:29,160 --> 01:29:34,160
Speaker 3: of what they are. They're like, what what kind of creature? Am? I? Actually?

1614
01:29:35,000 --> 01:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is such a great and admittedly downbeat way

1615
01:29:40,000 --> 01:29:41,800
Speaker 2: to close out the picture. I mean, the threat has

1616
01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,599
Speaker 2: been defeated, but the knowledge is still there and they're

1617
01:29:44,600 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 2: having and not only like I think for these two

1618
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:49,479
Speaker 2: characters like two different levels. Like they were they were

1619
01:29:49,520 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 2: just at each other's throats, you know, and and having

1620
01:29:53,080 --> 01:29:56,479
Speaker 2: to fight, and now they're out there shaken out of that,

1621
01:29:56,600 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 2: and then they're also having to you know, just roll

1622
01:29:59,320 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 2: with all of these relations that are in play now.

1623
01:30:02,520 --> 01:30:05,320
Speaker 2: But yeah, they're they're they're next they're near each other,

1624
01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:10,480
Speaker 2: and the credits are rolling, but it's still like live footage,

1625
01:30:10,600 --> 01:30:13,200
Speaker 2: you know, it's not a freeze frame. But they can't

1626
01:30:13,240 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 2: quite look at each other either, you know, they're just

1627
01:30:15,560 --> 01:30:18,320
Speaker 2: kind of both staring off to the side, staring at

1628
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:21,639
Speaker 2: the ground, staring into the middle distance. And the music

1629
01:30:21,720 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 2: is quite quite haunting and downbeat here.

1630
01:30:24,120 --> 01:30:27,360
Speaker 3: It's an ending that actually very much reminds me of

1631
01:30:27,439 --> 01:30:30,479
Speaker 3: the tone once again of John Carpenter's Prince of Darkness,

1632
01:30:30,880 --> 01:30:36,520
Speaker 3: because it's like the immediate incursion of evil has been defeated,

1633
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:40,640
Speaker 3: but you just don't know where that leaves us, Like

1634
01:30:40,760 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 3: how vulnerable are we still presumably given all the all

1635
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:48,000
Speaker 3: that's been established in the story, Like there could be

1636
01:30:48,040 --> 01:30:51,640
Speaker 3: another ship somewhere that maybe that activates us and we

1637
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,880
Speaker 3: turn into these raging telekinetic assassin mobs again.

1638
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:59,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there's so many unanswered questions so it's yeah,

1639
01:30:59,520 --> 01:31:03,679
Speaker 2: it's quite a haunting ending and indeed just a tremendous picture,

1640
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:08,759
Speaker 2: especially especially the early goings of it as the mystery

1641
01:31:08,840 --> 01:31:11,320
Speaker 2: is beginning to build. But just the pacing and the

1642
01:31:11,439 --> 01:31:14,240
Speaker 2: energy of the entire picture is great, Like it's just

1643
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:18,439
Speaker 2: a fun ride and you never find yourself bored because

1644
01:31:18,479 --> 01:31:20,920
Speaker 2: it keeps this a picture that keeps transforming itself as well.

1645
01:31:20,960 --> 01:31:25,720
Speaker 2: Each revelation brings an additional complications and brings us to

1646
01:31:25,800 --> 01:31:30,240
Speaker 2: this amazing climax that you really couldn't predict if you

1647
01:31:30,280 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about the picture when we first venture

1648
01:31:33,400 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 2: into the scenario.

1649
01:31:34,760 --> 01:31:37,960
Speaker 3: I was just trying to think, wait a minute, between

1650
01:31:39,000 --> 01:31:44,080
Speaker 3: quator Mass and Breen, whose vision is vindicated in the

1651
01:31:44,240 --> 01:31:47,760
Speaker 3: end by what they discover, I guess I would say

1652
01:31:47,800 --> 01:31:51,719
Speaker 3: neither one, because quator Mass has what you know Breen

1653
01:31:51,840 --> 01:31:55,240
Speaker 3: describes as this naive view of just like peaceful cooperation.

1654
01:31:55,640 --> 01:32:01,120
Speaker 3: He Breen thinks that quator Mass is not cognizant enough

1655
01:32:01,160 --> 01:32:03,880
Speaker 3: of threats. So I think you could argue in the

1656
01:32:03,960 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 3: end that that was true initially, Like there was indeed

1657
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:11,800
Speaker 3: a real threat here, but the threat was not an

1658
01:32:11,960 --> 01:32:18,040
Speaker 3: external enemy like this, The threat is something in ourselves

1659
01:32:18,200 --> 01:32:22,280
Speaker 3: that can be activated to turn us into something we

1660
01:32:22,320 --> 01:32:23,000
Speaker 3: don't want to be.

1661
01:32:23,800 --> 01:32:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's rather thought provoking really, so, yeah, you

1662
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:29,920
Speaker 2: can really see why this picture was so influential. You know,

1663
01:32:30,000 --> 01:32:33,800
Speaker 2: it really really turned people's heads, presented some ideas that

1664
01:32:34,160 --> 01:32:37,920
Speaker 2: you know, we're present in science fiction literature, but maybe

1665
01:32:37,960 --> 01:32:41,280
Speaker 2: had not been explored really on this level that much

1666
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 2: in an actual cinema. So it's in to do so

1667
01:32:46,040 --> 01:32:49,000
Speaker 2: too in a way that also has plenty of horror

1668
01:32:49,960 --> 01:32:53,800
Speaker 2: colors to the palette as well. You know you're mentioning

1669
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:55,800
Speaker 2: the John Carpenter influence. We should also have mentioned that, like,

1670
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:58,960
Speaker 2: there are a couple of other overt references to this

1671
01:32:59,600 --> 01:33:03,799
Speaker 2: in the Mouth of Madness features hobbs End as a location,

1672
01:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,679
Speaker 2: the hobbs End Horror and so forth as a direct

1673
01:33:08,040 --> 01:33:10,519
Speaker 2: nod to this film. And you could make a case

1674
01:33:10,560 --> 01:33:14,280
Speaker 2: too for John Carpenter's Ghosts of Mars, because that's essentially

1675
01:33:14,280 --> 01:33:16,640
Speaker 2: what we're dealing with here, Ghosts of Mars.

1676
01:33:16,680 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 3: Brilliant. Well, I can't say anything after that, all right, Yeah,

1677
01:33:22,880 --> 01:33:23,600
Speaker 3: that does it for me.

1678
01:33:24,120 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is a fun one. This was really this

1679
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:28,320
Speaker 2: was really nice to re explore this picture, which again,

1680
01:33:29,160 --> 01:33:31,479
Speaker 2: you know, had a strong effect on me when I

1681
01:33:31,520 --> 01:33:34,560
Speaker 2: first saw it many many years ago, and still absolutely

1682
01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 2: holds up this is This is great science fiction, so

1683
01:33:38,320 --> 01:33:40,200
Speaker 2: I encourage everyone to seek it out if it all

1684
01:33:40,240 --> 01:33:42,840
Speaker 2: interests you, although hopefully if you've made it this far

1685
01:33:42,960 --> 01:33:46,040
Speaker 2: through our our discussion of the plot, I hope you've

1686
01:33:46,080 --> 01:33:50,280
Speaker 2: already seen it. So as always right in concerning your

1687
01:33:50,320 --> 01:33:53,880
Speaker 2: thoughts about quator Mass in the Pit, as well as

1688
01:33:53,960 --> 01:33:56,680
Speaker 2: you know, suggestions for episodes you'd like to see in

1689
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:58,760
Speaker 2: the future, because one of the reasons we finally got

1690
01:33:58,760 --> 01:34:01,960
Speaker 2: around to doing this particular thing is because listeners kept

1691
01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:04,759
Speaker 2: writing in about it. So it doesn't always make it happen,

1692
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:07,799
Speaker 2: but it can certainly prod us in the right direction.

1693
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:10,400
Speaker 2: Just a reminder that Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1694
01:34:10,439 --> 01:34:12,720
Speaker 2: primarily a science and culture podcast with core episodes on

1695
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 2: two season Thursdays, but on Fridays we set aside most

1696
01:34:15,040 --> 01:34:17,559
Speaker 2: serious concerns to just talk about a weird film here

1697
01:34:17,560 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 2: on Weird House Cinema. If you would like to follow

1698
01:34:20,280 --> 01:34:22,920
Speaker 2: us on social well, we're on all the normal social

1699
01:34:23,200 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 2: media accounts, but we're also on Letterbox as weird House,

1700
01:34:27,040 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 2: and that's a great place to check out. A list

1701
01:34:29,080 --> 01:34:30,800
Speaker 2: of all the movies we've covered over the years, and

1702
01:34:30,800 --> 01:34:33,559
Speaker 2: sometimes a peek ahead of what's coming up next Huge Things.

1703
01:34:33,560 --> 01:34:36,880
Speaker 3: As always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway. If

1704
01:34:36,920 --> 01:34:38,320
Speaker 3: you would like to get in touch with us with

1705
01:34:38,400 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 3: feedback on this episode or any other, to suggest a

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Speaker 3: topic for the future, or just to say hello, you

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Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow your

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Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

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Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

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Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.