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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

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Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called

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Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super

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Speaker 1: producer Paul Mission Controlled Deconds, as well as with our

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Speaker 1: new super producer Alexis Jackson. So drop by and say hello,

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Speaker 1: help us think of a nickname when you have the chance.

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Speaker 1: Most importantly, you are you. You are here, and that

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Speaker 1: makes this stuff they don't want you to know. As

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Speaker 1: we always like to start the top of the week,

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Speaker 1: we're bringing you strange news in this segment. So many

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Speaker 1: things fly under the radar these days, to recur just

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Speaker 1: outside the pool of iodine street lights. So many things

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Speaker 1: happened just off the edges of the mainstream map. So again,

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Speaker 1: as we said last week, this is the segment where

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Speaker 1: each of us finds a story that we think deserves

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Speaker 1: the attention of our fellow conspiracy realist. What do we

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Speaker 1: have today, guys? We have we have plagues, We have history.

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Speaker 1: Maybe rhyming, if not repeating, Yeah, We've got all kinds

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Speaker 1: of we've got a grab bag for you today. But

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Speaker 1: the first thing we're gonna bring up here is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you're doing a search around for Alexis

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Speaker 1: Jackson here, you're gonna find some other Alexis Jackson's. This

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Speaker 1: is my submission for super Producer Alexis Jackson's nickname Alexis

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Speaker 1: double x Is and s Is Jackson. Does that? Does

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Speaker 1: that feel good? In double lex and s or Alexis

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Speaker 1: double x and s Jackson double like that? That's a

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Speaker 1: ton twist, my friend. Yeah, you have to heard that one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I like we your heads at there. We should also say,

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Speaker 1: Alexis apologies. I think we may be briefly talked about

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Speaker 1: we were going to do this. We should have checked beforehand.

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Speaker 1: But uh, of course you get final vote on any nicknames. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got a better one, Superproducer Alexis the prof Jackson Jackson.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, okay. I also want to put out there

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Speaker 1: that Paul it's Paul's policy to remain anonymous and not

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Speaker 1: speak on the show. We obviously to offer Alexis her

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Speaker 1: ability to make that choice for herself if she wants

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Speaker 1: to chime in. She has more than welcome to do something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I did that off the air previously, as you guys know,

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Speaker 1: I have have that track record. I'm just trying to

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Speaker 1: get everybody to come on Mike at some point. I

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Speaker 1: think we all we all agree that that's a cool

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Speaker 1: thing for the show. But no pressure, of course, as

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Speaker 1: you said, nol Uh, it is of course always an

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Speaker 1: individual's personal choice. More on that to come for now.

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Speaker 1: We each made a personal choice speaking of just painful segues, uh,

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Speaker 1: and we found some stories that we thought our fellow

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Speaker 1: listeners would enjoy. We talked a little bit about this

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Speaker 1: off air, matt Um. You you had said we could

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Speaker 1: maybe start with something you dug up. It feels like

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Speaker 1: an end of day's plague. I'm just gonna be honest

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Speaker 1: with you, just from what you've told us. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't don't give it oh way too much there, Ben,

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Speaker 1: But let let's just read the headline first. You ready,

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Speaker 1: This is now This is from CNN, and this headline

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Speaker 1: is a mirror of a bunch of UK websites where

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Speaker 1: I was first reading about this. But I guess I

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Speaker 1: liked the the way CNN put it best. A swarm

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Speaker 1: of flying ants stretched for miles over the UK and

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Speaker 1: looked like rain on weather radar. So really that gives

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Speaker 1: you almost the entire thing in a headline right up front.

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Speaker 1: But the imagery that it conjures really is for me

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Speaker 1: the stuff of nightmares. So, you know, living in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: we we three Georgia boys, are quite accustomed to flying

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Speaker 1: insects hovering around us at all times, be it gnats

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Speaker 1: or flies or the dreaded mosquitoes. Uh. Currently that is

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Speaker 1: what we're facing when or what most people called, you know,

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Speaker 1: giant cockroaches, but we very charmingly referred to you as

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Speaker 1: palmetto bugs. Yeah, those adorable little palmetto bugs that are

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Speaker 1: in your house and outside your house and everywhere. But this,

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Speaker 1: in this case, we're talking about fairly large black flying ants,

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Speaker 1: and we are talking about massive swarms of them, to

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Speaker 1: the point where there are so many that the millions

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Speaker 1: of flying ants show up on radar and trick, they

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Speaker 1: don't trick meteorologists. Meteorologists have a whole host of data

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Speaker 1: that they're looking at when they're you know, deciding what

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Speaker 1: is occurring weather wise. But if you look at the

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Speaker 1: radar maps over the UK from the past week, it

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Speaker 1: genuinely looks like there were these storms popping up in

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Speaker 1: in several places kind of southeast of Yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: southeast of London, down in the bottom of the country there,

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Speaker 1: And my goodness, it is so crazy to imagine that

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Speaker 1: there would be enough insects in the sky that it

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Speaker 1: would register on radar. Just I like the now. I

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Speaker 1: know there are a lot of people who are phobic

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Speaker 1: when it comes to insects, but I always liked the

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Speaker 1: idea of the natural world moving on mass, you know,

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Speaker 1: like before the extinction of passenger pigeons in the in

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Speaker 1: what would become the United States, those guys used to

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Speaker 1: block out the sky and and apparently from what we're

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Speaker 1: learning here in the UK, this is not the first

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Speaker 1: time it's happened, Is that correct, mat Yeah, absolutely, this

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Speaker 1: happens on a yearly basis, not necessarily the uh mistaking

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Speaker 1: ants for rain clouds or anything, but there there is

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Speaker 1: a yearly emergence of this specific species of flying ants

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Speaker 1: in the UK and in England, and specifically they're in

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Speaker 1: the place where it was found this time near London,

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Speaker 1: Kent and Sussex. But it it occurs all over the

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Speaker 1: world every year. In the summer months, so anytime between

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Speaker 1: June generally in August, like right towards the beginning of September.

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Speaker 1: There these ants will emerge kind of young ants basically,

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Speaker 1: and then in order to not have too much interbreeding

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Speaker 1: essentially within one colony, they spread out. They fly to

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Speaker 1: a new place essentially to spread to create a new colony.

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Speaker 1: And it's fascinating to me that essentially you've got one

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Speaker 1: big flying queen ant and then a bunch of male

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Speaker 1: ants that are all taking to the skies to go

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Speaker 1: find a new place. While they're in flight, they are mating. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so then the queen wait a minute, way of it.

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Speaker 1: She's saying, they're doing it like in the in the air. Wow,

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Speaker 1: very circue dissolate, you know, yes, very much so. And

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Speaker 1: this is just how it works, is just the way

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Speaker 1: of functions. Mate in the air, and then they go

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Speaker 1: and land to somewhere else on the ground, so they

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Speaker 1: actually take to the ground and then they create new colonies.

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Speaker 1: The queen this is was amazing to me. The queen

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Speaker 1: ant bites her own wings off and then creates a

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Speaker 1: brand new colony, begins laying eggs, and male ants that

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Speaker 1: are also flying around they kind of just become a

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Speaker 1: new colony there. Fascinating stuff. This is like the very

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Speaker 1: definition of a hive mind kind of situation, right where

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Speaker 1: they just know the need for approcreation and they are

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Speaker 1: communicating it, whether it's there following the queen or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But you know, it's that kind of like almost electrical

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Speaker 1: impulse communication, you know, with such wide ranging groups that

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Speaker 1: are like so far away from the queen, it's like

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Speaker 1: this chain reaction. But um, do you think, Matt, if

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Speaker 1: this swarm descended on, say a herd of cattle, would

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Speaker 1: be one of those cartoonish things where they'd come away

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Speaker 1: and it would just be like bones with like you know,

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Speaker 1: flesh hanging off them, or they just like rip it

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Speaker 1: to shreds. I want to believe that, Matt. I want

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Speaker 1: to believe that. I mean, that sounds very x files

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Speaker 1: Uh in this case. I don't think the ants would

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Speaker 1: be interested in, you know, ripping the flesh from a

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Speaker 1: creature of any sort. They're very much at least to

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Speaker 1: the understanding of scientists. Uh. And some of the Royal

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Speaker 1: Society is there in the UK. It's all about essentially

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Speaker 1: procreation and expansion of the colonies, and they're not eating flesh,

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Speaker 1: or they just they just have a taste for love,

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Speaker 1: not flesh. You know, they're too busy getting it on

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Speaker 1: mid air to be worried about eviscerating herds of cows.

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Speaker 1: But but I like the imagery just the same, and

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Speaker 1: they are also if I understand, they share one important

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Speaker 1: difference with twenties perhaps better known insects swarm, the locust

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Speaker 1: swarms that have gone through vast swaths of the African continent,

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Speaker 1: in that this form of flying ants, the experts believe

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Speaker 1: is actually good for the ecology of the region. Is

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Speaker 1: that correct. Yeah, They're gonna aerate the soil where they

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Speaker 1: end up landing in, is gonna make it easier to

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Speaker 1: you know, nutrients will be put back into the soil

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Speaker 1: essentially where they're going. They're going to provide a ton

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Speaker 1: of food for the birds and other small animals that

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Speaker 1: are in the area and even the I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: it's pretty crazy how beneficial the ants actually will be.

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Speaker 1: Though it is it is super unsettling watching some of

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Speaker 1: the social media videos online of these things crawling around

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Speaker 1: on the sidewalks, on you know, in the grass wherever

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Speaker 1: they exist, because it does look like an ant with

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Speaker 1: pair of big, old translucent wings on it. Um. But

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Speaker 1: you know, and the reason why I bring this as

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Speaker 1: a strange news thing, it's being written about on social

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Speaker 1: media and I have to imagine ingest but it's being

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Speaker 1: written about as just another of the signs that is

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Speaker 1: bringing about the apocalypse essentially, or that the apocalypse is

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Speaker 1: nigh in because there's yet another one of these plagues

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Speaker 1: of insects, which, you know, something that was spoken about

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Speaker 1: in the Bible about how there would be plagues that

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Speaker 1: would occur. Plagues came along, you know, with other important

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Speaker 1: Biblical figures, specifically plagues that were unleashed in the direction

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Speaker 1: of Pharaoh. Um. But you know, this to me doesn't

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Speaker 1: read as that. It reads to me as a very

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Speaker 1: fascinating biological thing that occurs on a yearly basis. Whatever

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Speaker 1: happened to those murder hornets everyone's all worked up about.

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Speaker 1: For a minute, I haven't heard much on them, and

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Speaker 1: in a little their population was relatively small. It did

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Speaker 1: an earlier UM piece on this for Strange News Daily.

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Speaker 1: Their presence um is disturbing, right, How how does this

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Speaker 1: kind of insect to get across the Pacific in the

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Speaker 1: first place? But they were never their numbers were never

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Speaker 1: as great as a swarm of flying ants or locusts.

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Speaker 1: We would have heard a lot more about them. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's weird, though, To go back to your point, Matt,

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Speaker 1: the idea that insert odd story here is yet another

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Speaker 1: sign that the world is ending in twenty twenty. I

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Speaker 1: think it's so narcissistic of human beings. The world is

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Speaker 1: ending for someone somewhere. Every day and every single year,

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Speaker 1: there are at least a baker's dozen of let's say,

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Speaker 1: cults or charismatic individuals who were convinced that this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be the last year. I get it in the

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Speaker 1: long term, humanity is still sort of a fad. But

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Speaker 1: don't you think it's kind of humans, Centrick that we

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Speaker 1: all we all assume that we're going to be alive

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Speaker 1: when the actual end occurs. I don't think we are.

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Speaker 1: It just it feels a little self aggrandizing to be

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Speaker 1: like here, we're here, We're at the end. Things are

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Speaker 1: always bad, they're getting worse. I don't I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I would just say it does feel perhaps as close

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Speaker 1: as you can get this year to be near the apocalypse.

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Speaker 1: It feels it feels that way at least, and I

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Speaker 1: only have thirty some odd years of experience, but it

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Speaker 1: certainly feels that way. But that's what we said in twelve.

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Speaker 1: Uh yeah, did it feel like the end of though

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Speaker 1: I think that was more. I think that was more

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Speaker 1: of a Hey, the signs are pointing to this now

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Speaker 1: because of the Mayan calendar, I don't know. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: that was supposed to be June twenty one, so he

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Speaker 1: dodged a bullet on that one, unless they got it

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Speaker 1: wrong again because previously it was supposed to be December.

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Speaker 1: But then, you know, much like many doomsday prophecies, there's

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Speaker 1: usually some little kink. Wait, wait, are you saying that

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Speaker 1: the date for the Mayan and apocalypse was pushed back?

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Speaker 1: And I missed it. I didn't even know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: They did a zoom call about it, they held off production,

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Speaker 1: barely even made our newsletter. I mean, I can't believe

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Speaker 1: I missed that. I must have been out that day. Dang.

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Speaker 1: But that's I mean, I think you're right in that

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Speaker 1: it does feel like we're seeing more and more incredibly

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Speaker 1: anomalous events occurring this year. I mean, the past few

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Speaker 1: months have been like the longest tatten years in history

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Speaker 1: as as as the jokes go. But but it makes

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Speaker 1: it does make you wonder are we are we just

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Speaker 1: more attuned to acknowledge and hear these stories or to

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Speaker 1: report them now, or is there real more crazy stuff happening.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of the things that are

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Speaker 1: being reported as like this is happening this year and

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Speaker 1: this is screwy soon. Science reveals summer will be too

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Speaker 1: hot for human beings literally, but people have been saying

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Speaker 1: that for years and they were right then. Or we

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Speaker 1: just paying more attention or are things really on a

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Speaker 1: precipitous path or is it a mix of both? I

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Speaker 1: don't know. I think it's absolutely a mix of both,

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Speaker 1: in the same way that you you turned us onto this.

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Speaker 1: John oliver Um last week tonight segment on conspiracy theories,

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Speaker 1: and he speaks to the scholar who talks about how

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Speaker 1: we as a species, uh tend to want to ascribe

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Speaker 1: big events to big causes and that's sort of a

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Speaker 1: big part of the whole thinking behind conspiracy theories, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: if if this massive thing happened, it had to be

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Speaker 1: for a reason, you know, it had to be, Like

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Speaker 1: there's some thought behind it, right, and this is a

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Speaker 1: little different, but it's like it's that same kind of

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Speaker 1: what is it batter Minehoff syndrome where you keep noticing

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Speaker 1: things the more you notice them. It's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: confirmation bias, where we're like, Okay, this year definitely sucks,

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Speaker 1: and there happened to be a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: we can, you know, attached to some kind of cosmic

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Speaker 1: plan for why things suck so bad. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: hence the murder hornets and the finding the plague in

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Speaker 1: the Chinese herdsman. But then we realize, oh, they actually

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Speaker 1: find that like a little every year. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of things that we attach meanings to that don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily haven't have any mean not to say that we're

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Speaker 1: not living in the end times, and it sure as

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Speaker 1: hell feels like it. But you can see what I'm saying, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I get it. The idea of a conspiracy, no matter

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Speaker 1: how terrible, is in some ways infinitely more comforting than

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Speaker 1: the idea of the alternative that things are an accident,

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Speaker 1: no one knows what's going on, no one's in charge.

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Speaker 1: The idea that our species is one big escape room experiment,

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Speaker 1: and Earth is the room. We're all locked in and

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Speaker 1: we just can't get it together enough to get out

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Speaker 1: of the room. I mean, yeah, that's terrified. Not not

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Speaker 1: only that been, not only an escape room experience, but

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Speaker 1: an escape room where the dumbest person is the most

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Speaker 1: confident and leading you in the wrong direction constantly. That

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Speaker 1: escape room experience of yours really scarred. Man. I'm not

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Speaker 1: I mean, I just think it's appropriate. You're absolutely right.

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Speaker 1: I am a little long time listeners will know that

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Speaker 1: I am referring to a real thing. But you see

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying, though, It's like we put so much

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Speaker 1: trust in the people that are the loudest voices in

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Speaker 1: the room and the ones that come forth with this

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Speaker 1: confident plan, and oftentimes they're just improvising. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: there's there's just kind of entropy and all of it.

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Speaker 1: Everyone's just sort of faking it till they make it,

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Speaker 1: including the universe. I mean, Matt, I want to know

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Speaker 1: your take. I'm not gonna lie. Part of me would

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Speaker 1: be darkly, intensely delighted if it turned out that this

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Speaker 1: was this was something that the UK somehow did on purpose,

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Speaker 1: Like the Queen is going we must distract from the

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Speaker 1: crimes of Frinns Andrew, release this all the ants, you

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Speaker 1: know what I mean? I would love that. Give me

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Speaker 1: give queen your queen boys, ben, I love it so much. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: She she made a quick call to the Royal Society

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Speaker 1: of Biology, which is a real thing in the United Kingdom,

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Speaker 1: and she said, yeah, hook us up with a couple swarms.

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Speaker 1: We really need some cover here literal and figure two

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Speaker 1: and uh, they got it going. I don't know how

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Speaker 1: I feel, guys, I was reflecting just for a moment

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Speaker 1: here the thing I forgot to tell you about the

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Speaker 1: whole mating in the sky with diamonds thing. Um, I

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Speaker 1: don't know why. That just felt like it rhymed and

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Speaker 1: felt felt good. But so the the Queen Aunt, the

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Speaker 1: most important aunt of all. The Queen Aunt does her thing,

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Speaker 1: then lands on the ground after being um fertilized and

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Speaker 1: choose her own wings off and gets to work making

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Speaker 1: that colony. Well, the flying male ants when they're up

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Speaker 1: there doing that dance. Uh, as soon as they're finished mating,

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Speaker 1: the male just straight up dies and falls right down

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Speaker 1: to the earth from whence he originally came. Um, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: this is I'm asking ignorant question, not being an entomologist

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Speaker 1: and this being your topics, so I assume you did

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Speaker 1: a little extra research. They like all have sex with

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Speaker 1: just the one queen. Yeah, the that's the biological imperative.

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Speaker 1: I guess of the male role there. What a burden

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Speaker 1: that queen has to bear. I mean, my goodness, it's

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Speaker 1: really interesting. Generally we would pull it back from a

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Speaker 1: I am a creature and I'm making this decision of

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Speaker 1: my own folition. It's more of my DNA, my whatever

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Speaker 1: is inside of me, you know, from the past experience

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Speaker 1: of my species and the species that came for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to act in this way, right. So the

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Speaker 1: concept is that they just it's just known to do

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Speaker 1: this right. And again that's from our current understanding of

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Speaker 1: ants and of this particul kular species, and it's, you know,

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Speaker 1: very human thing to do, to be like, oh, they

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Speaker 1: obviously don't understand or know what they're doing. They're just

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Speaker 1: tiny little ants. But again, science can't prove that there's

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Speaker 1: any kind of consciousness going on there. I mean, have

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Speaker 1: you seen the movie at what is? Say? What do

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Speaker 1: you want to say? Man? Oh wait, oh wait? I

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Speaker 1: was just gonna say, have you seen the movie Ants?

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Speaker 1: I mean that movie is basically like an instruction manual

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Speaker 1: for how to foment a revolution, how to rise up,

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Speaker 1: you know, against your your oppressors. I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: a good time to watch the movie Ants. You guys

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Speaker 1: just putting that out there for everyone if you haven't

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Speaker 1: seen it. To me, it's just tough to imagine that

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Speaker 1: those male ants would take it upon themselves to do

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Speaker 1: that act, knowing it or perhaps not knowing, but definitely

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Speaker 1: if they know they're gonna die immediately afterwards, it seems

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Speaker 1: like there would be some they would say, Nope, I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna keep going doing some other stuff and definitely

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Speaker 1: not gonna mate anytime soon. I'm gonna call this and

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Speaker 1: throws centrism. Fellow armchair mermacologists in the crowd, you may

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Speaker 1: enjoy this thought experiment, this conundrum here. First, this is

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Speaker 1: an excellent illustration of a common pattern in uh, the

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Speaker 1: in biological life on earth, which is that, uh, those

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Speaker 1: things that might be identified as male as biologically male. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, life cycles generally treat them as the disposable ones.

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Speaker 1: That's why there are hundreds of male ants to a queen.

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Speaker 1: That's why there are hundreds and thousands or millions of

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Speaker 1: young men sent to war in the human species. But

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Speaker 1: I ask you this, this is for you, meremacologists. What

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Speaker 1: is the most successful life for on Earth? A lot

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Speaker 1: of people want to say human, and you could say

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Speaker 1: that depending on how you measure things. But I think

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Speaker 1: there is a tremendously compelling argument to be made for

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Speaker 1: the ants. Super colonies. Uh, they have agriculture, some species

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Speaker 1: uh that have enormously specific adaptations. They partner with other species. Uh,

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Speaker 1: they conquer and enslave other species. I mean, they take

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Speaker 1: all the boxes. I think ants are a strong top

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Speaker 1: five contender for most successful life form, depending on the metrics.

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Speaker 1: I would tend to agree with Roaches are pretty strong too,

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Speaker 1: because they can survive like a nuclear holocaust situation. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And Matt, you know your whole question of like, do

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Speaker 1: you think if they knew they would they would maybe

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Speaker 1: just trying to like sneak on out of there if

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Speaker 1: they knew what their fate was going to be after that?

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Speaker 1: Maybe ritual Well, that, my friend, is antithropomorphizing a bit

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Speaker 1: much for my taste. Sorry, um, sorry, I had to

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Speaker 1: get dad pun in there. Thanks guys, And I think

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Speaker 1: this one's awesome, man. Let's pause for a moment, and

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Speaker 1: unless we two are consumed by a biblical plague level

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Speaker 1: swarm of insects, will be back after a word from

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Speaker 1: our sponsor, and we're back. You're just thinking here, I'm

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Speaker 1: just kind of spitballing. Guys. Knowing that there are swarms

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Speaker 1: of ants if you're going to be going outside, might

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Speaker 1: be a good reason for you to put a mask

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Speaker 1: over your face so you don't get a mouth full

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Speaker 1: of insects. But there are currently a lot more pressing

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Speaker 1: reasons to put a mask on. And for more on that,

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Speaker 1: Mr Noel Brown, Oh my god, you introduced me like

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Speaker 1: a real correspondent, Matt, thank you. I love this. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's true. So I'm gonna read you a public a

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Speaker 1: note from the Treasury Department, United States Public Health Service.

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Speaker 1: Um influenza spread by droplets sprayed from nose and throat.

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Speaker 1: Cover each coffin's knees with handkerchief, spread by contact. Avoid

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Speaker 1: crowds if possible, walk to work. Do not spit on

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Speaker 1: floor or sidewalk. Do not use common drinking cups and

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Speaker 1: common towels. Avoid excessive fatigue. If taken ill, go to

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Speaker 1: bed and send for a doctor. The bub applies also

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Speaker 1: to colds, bronchitis, pneumonia, and tuberculosis. UM Aside from a

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Speaker 1: couple of little indicators in there, this could very well

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Speaker 1: be a notice that we would see posted today or

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Speaker 1: a recommendation from like the Centers for Disease Control about

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Speaker 1: how to uh stem the tide of COVID nineteen. This

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Speaker 1: in fact came out Circle nineteen eight teen during another

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Speaker 1: pandemic known as the Spanish flu. A lot of other

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Speaker 1: parallels exists between that pandemic and the one we're going

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Speaker 1: through now and the one we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: in in this story UM specifically the attitude towards masks UM.

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Speaker 1: Here in Georgia, for example, we even have like a

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Speaker 1: lot of really tense back and forth between the governor

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Speaker 1: of our state, Brian Kemp, and the mayor of our city,

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Speaker 1: Kesha Lance Bottoms. Keisha Lance Bottoms felt that with all

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Speaker 1: of the spiking cases that we're experiencing now, would be

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Speaker 1: appropriate to a UM impose a mask mandate and be

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Speaker 1: roll back to what's called phase one of of quarantine essentially,

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Speaker 1: which would be closing non essential businesses just short of

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Speaker 1: sheltering in place like we were when things were really

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Speaker 1: you know, starting to get real. Governor Kemp has sued

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Speaker 1: Mayor Kesha Lance Bottoms and also imposed a moratorium or

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Speaker 1: some kind of UH injunction I guess on her speaking

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Speaker 1: to the press about these things and saying that she's

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Speaker 1: overreaching her you know, her power and all of that UM,

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Speaker 1: which I guess could be true. But it's an odd

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Speaker 1: thing to be so at odds with UM, and it

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Speaker 1: was an interesting thing to see people fighting against as

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Speaker 1: well in the in the nineteen when UM in the

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Speaker 1: city of Denver, for example, there was a mask mandate

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Speaker 1: put in place, and it caused folks to just lose

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Speaker 1: their minds, say that they were being UM. They were

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Speaker 1: their civil liberties were being threatened, saying that they should

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Speaker 1: not be forced to do this, that it was somehow

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Speaker 1: political issue, much the same as we're seeing it today.

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Speaker 1: What do you guys think about this, Well, it's certainly

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Speaker 1: something that I've been seeing on social media a bit,

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Speaker 1: and you know a story here there where there's been

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Speaker 1: an altercation in some kind of store because of mask use. UM. Generally,

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Speaker 1: the arguments that I've seen put forth are very similar

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Speaker 1: to what you're describing their noal Um, it's an affront

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Speaker 1: to personal civil liberties. You know, who has who has

427
00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 1: the right to tell me that I can't do what

428
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: I want to do? Essentially, Um. And then the counter

429
00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,639
Speaker 1: argument is this is more of a community concern or

430
00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: a larger concern, and the you know, personal civil liberty

431
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 1: has to take a back seat to the protection of

432
00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: you know, the larger group. I would just say, I

433
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: can I entify. I can somewhat identify with that stance.

434
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 1: If you personally feel as though you are not a

435
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 1: threat to anyone else and you don't feel threatened by

436
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: anyone else that you're interacting with, I can understand why

437
00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: an individual might feel that way. Right. The problem here

438
00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:24,360
Speaker 1: is that we're dealing with something that is silent, that

439
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:29,760
Speaker 1: is sometimes untraceable, and it's not possible to even know

440
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: if you are infected, you know, for a certain period

441
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: of time a window there. It becomes a question of

442
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,760
Speaker 1: what are you willing to risk, not only for yourself,

443
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: but for the people around you, because ultimately, wearing a

444
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: mask isn't to protect you from other people breathing. It

445
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,680
Speaker 1: is a protection for the other people that you're going

446
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: to be around. It's a gesture of goodwill to to

447
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,439
Speaker 1: say like, hey, I'm I were in this together and

448
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: I'm going to do my part, even if maybe it's

449
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,200
Speaker 1: not like the end all be all. It's something ben Um,

450
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: I actually made a mistake. It's not it's not a

451
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,119
Speaker 1: mistake exactly. I mentioned Denver. But the story that I

452
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: found is from the Business Insider by Katie Canalis from

453
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,400
Speaker 1: June three of this year. It's a really excellent article.

454
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,680
Speaker 1: It has a lot of photographs of the mask kind

455
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:23,360
Speaker 1: of outcry situation in San Francisco. There was this anti

456
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: mask movement. Uh. It was actually a league, an organization

457
00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,159
Speaker 1: of folks called the Anti Mask League that had a

458
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:36,639
Speaker 1: mission statement um sanitary spartakan's name of Anti Mask League

459
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 1: in in Frisco. Some of these headlines and they actually

460
00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,560
Speaker 1: like gathered in churches and they you know, it was

461
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: a big it was a big thing. Uh. Three shot

462
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: in struggle with masks, slacker blacksmith strikes health inspector striving

463
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: to enforce order. So it literally became like a subject

464
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 1: of riots in the street. I don't think we're quite

465
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: there yet in terms of like being denied entrance to

466
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: public because you're not wearing a mask um, but we

467
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,520
Speaker 1: also haven't had a mandate that was enforceable in that

468
00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 1: same way, Ben, do you see an escalation of this

469
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: and and and it kind of like a more of

470
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:12,640
Speaker 1: a parallel with what we're seeing here in San Francisco

471
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighteen, with you know, folks getting arrested and

472
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 1: hauled off to jail, and they're becoming this like contingent

473
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: of folks saying we're not gonna stand for this kind

474
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 1: of flagrant abuse of our civil rights. It's an interesting

475
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:31,920
Speaker 1: question because there are social commonalities. The hardware of the society,

476
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 1: that being the human being, remained very much the same

477
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:40,640
Speaker 1: as the physical human beings we see in twenty twenty. However,

478
00:28:40,920 --> 00:28:44,760
Speaker 1: the software or the infrastructure of the society is very

479
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: very different. It's it's easy to I don't want to

480
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 1: see cherry pick because it's not cherry picking. It's easy

481
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: to see stark once one commonalities with the H one

482
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,480
Speaker 1: in one UH and with know COVID nineteen here. But

483
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:07,959
Speaker 1: biologically they're different, and the societies in which they occur

484
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 1: are also different. The primary culprit, if there is a

485
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: culprit on the human side, for eighteen flu epidemic is

486
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: most likely soldiers because they were traveling internationally far more

487
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: than the average person. And in our modern day society,

488
00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:33,200
Speaker 1: so many, so many cultures are interconnected or were interconnected

489
00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 1: because of international travel, international trade, and so on. It

490
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: was easier, i think, for coronavirus to spread today in

491
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 1: than it was for the flu in nineteen eighteen, fewer

492
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:49,160
Speaker 1: people honestly were traveling. We know that there will be

493
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,280
Speaker 1: an escalation, it will probably not occur throughout all parts

494
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 1: of the globe because frankly, some parts of the world

495
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: did a much better job combating this infection. However, you know,

496
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 1: if you talk to a medical historian, they're gonna say

497
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:05,720
Speaker 1: if you had to put a number on the death

498
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:10,040
Speaker 1: toll in the US for the nine eighteen flu, you

499
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 1: would say sixty five hundred thousand people Ballpark died. Between

500
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 1: fifty million people died globally. It seems like a high number,

501
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: but there were waves of infection, right just like the

502
00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: Black Death. It didn't all happen in one wave. So

503
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's gonna take a while for a vaccine

504
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: to be deployed. However, that works, that means more people

505
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: are gonna die. That's just a fact. Unfortunately, a lot

506
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: of those people who die globally are going to be

507
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: in the United States because for a number of reasons,

508
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: the US is still very much in the grips of

509
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 1: the pandemic, and some other countries have gotten to the

510
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,000
Speaker 1: other side of at least the first wave. So I

511
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: would say, without predicting the future, which is kind of

512
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: you know, untrustworthy gig, it's not out of the it's

513
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,360
Speaker 1: not out of the ballpark for COVID nineteen or the

514
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 1: coronavirus pandemic to end up being more dangerous than the

515
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: Spanish flu um. Just to continue along that, Noll, I

516
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 1: would just know that there's a lot of public outcry

517
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: about mask use because I think some people view it

518
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: as the beginning of what they would consider to be

519
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: a slippery slope. If you look at you know, brightly

520
00:31:32,000 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: or not or incorrectly, I would say, but if you

521
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,800
Speaker 1: look at places like France, like the country of France

522
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,959
Speaker 1: as of today, the what is it July twenty Monday

523
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:47,040
Speaker 1: that we're recording this. In France, the government can find

524
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: any individual who is not wearing a face mask or

525
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:54,440
Speaker 1: covering of some sort while in a public indoor setting.

526
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 1: They can find them a hundred and fifty four dollars

527
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: US or a d thirty five euros um just for

528
00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: not wearing a mask. Right, so an officer or someone

529
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,440
Speaker 1: can stop you and you can be fined that much

530
00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: money for not complying. Um. I think people in the

531
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: US see that kind of action being taken as something

532
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,200
Speaker 1: that will eventually occur in the United States, and the

533
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 1: stance becomes very much if they can do that, then

534
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,280
Speaker 1: what else can they do or what else will they do?

535
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,240
Speaker 1: And then generally I see that linked to a fear

536
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,360
Speaker 1: that there's something else coming down the road, that this

537
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:34,040
Speaker 1: is a stepping stone essentially a lot of times, and

538
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,720
Speaker 1: someone listening please correct me if I'm if I'm wrong here,

539
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: But I see it then being linked to things as

540
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: possibly the vaccination being a some form of government control

541
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: to do something nefarious to the people who are going

542
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:52,480
Speaker 1: to have to get this vaccine and if you don't

543
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: get it, um, you know, it would be forced, it

544
00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,640
Speaker 1: would be compulsory to get this vaccine. If you don't

545
00:32:58,640 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: get it, you'd either get a line or you know,

546
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 1: some other bad thing that would happen to you. Sure,

547
00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 1: but I mean I can understand that the fact that

548
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: it's something to do with our bodies, like even a mask,

549
00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: because you know, it's not like you're being shot up

550
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: with some kind of you know, questionable medication, which you know,

551
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: we know that a vaccine obviously it has to be

552
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,600
Speaker 1: vetted and everything, but we we know plenty of medications

553
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,320
Speaker 1: that get vetted by the FDA and then come out

554
00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: and then we find out there's all kinds of unexpected

555
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: side effects. So I understand that a mask isn't quite that,

556
00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: but it is something that's on your body. But you

557
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: know what about seat belts. I mean, when seatbelts became mandatory,

558
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: people freaked out in the same way and we're like

559
00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:43,959
Speaker 1: cutting them out of their cars, you know, as protests,

560
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 1: and those people look like assholes now, you know, I mean,

561
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 1: seat belts are No one's really maligning seatbelts, although it

562
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,400
Speaker 1: is shocking to me that the school buses don't have them.

563
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: But that's a good discussion for another day, you know

564
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 1: what I mean, though, like how is it an issue?

565
00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,040
Speaker 1: Like how is this? Why is it a hill worth

566
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: dying on? You know when it seems like it's just

567
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 1: a matter of just showing that you give a crap

568
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: and want to, like, you know, do your part. Social dynamics, UM,

569
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: social dynamics are are pretty compelling here, especially if we

570
00:34:14,680 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: look at group psychology. One thing that large groups of

571
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: people tend to do is to rally around something that

572
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:29,120
Speaker 1: feels like a direct action, that feels like a definitive

573
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: verbs we have done something, and often that's an escape

574
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: hatch for existing anxieties or fears based on much more

575
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: complicated situations. So um, you know, the seatbelled example. The

576
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 1: issue with that is that there's a lot of there's

577
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 1: a lot of purposeful um and somewhat insidious lobbying that

578
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 1: goes in I think again an episode of car stuff

579
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 1: about it, uh similar to jaywalking or jaywalking became a crime.

580
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 1: It is big auto pushing that because they were saving

581
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: money by not having to manufacture additional seatbelts. They're also

582
00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,479
Speaker 1: very well aware of the slippery slope that existed there

583
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: because now the US and much of the I mean

584
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: the entirety of the western world, all the auto manufacturers

585
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:24,280
Speaker 1: there have to comply with numerous top down, government ordered

586
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: safety measures. Right, and people generally now agree that it's

587
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: a good thing. But also a ton of people aren't

588
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 1: going to bother with a seat belt. You might not

589
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 1: be aware of this unless you grow up in Georgia,

590
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: But for a long time there was a law that

591
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: said people didn't have to wear seatbelts in certain vehicles,

592
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: notably pickup trucks. That is entirely because there was one

593
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: old school politician who drove a pickup truck and he

594
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: just said, seatbelts be damned. He had no science, had

595
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,879
Speaker 1: nothing but his own personal identity, and it also kind

596
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:00,400
Speaker 1: of functioned as UM. Okay, so the seatbelt thing was lobby, right.

597
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: I think the mask thing is the the idea of

598
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: wearing or not wearing a mask for people who don't

599
00:36:07,160 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 1: want to wear a mask. The health concerns don't really

600
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 1: factor into the conversation. It's metonymy. It's a metonymy protest.

601
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: Uh there. This this is a symbol, right, This is

602
00:36:20,920 --> 00:36:24,400
Speaker 1: a symbol of kind of what you had mentioned earlier. Uh, Matt,

603
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,479
Speaker 1: this precedent. Right, We're gonna cut this off. We're gonna

604
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:31,200
Speaker 1: nip this off of the bud because what's next we'll

605
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:33,399
Speaker 1: get the mark of the beast. We'll all have our

606
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: f I D will have to have UM, will have

607
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,759
Speaker 1: to pass some sort of test to be allowed to

608
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:44,280
Speaker 1: have children. Of those three things, I'm gonna say episode

609
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: for a different day. I have some opinions. They're not facts,

610
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: but I have some opinions. But do you see what

611
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm saying here? A mask is something to say no

612
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: to because it's much easier to feel like you've done something.

613
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 1: It's much easier to feel like you've taken an action,

614
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,479
Speaker 1: and that's similar. You know, again, the hardware is the same.

615
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: The human species was doing this during the flu pandemic.

616
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 1: It's just it's a lot easier to do something small

617
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,799
Speaker 1: and simple like that, consequences be damned, than it is

618
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: to look at the underlying, complicated psychological environment in which

619
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 1: these fears arise. I get it, and you're you're completely

620
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:26,360
Speaker 1: spot on, Ben. I do think that it's further complicated

621
00:37:26,840 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: by leadership that uh makes it a political issue, like

622
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: implying that wearing a mask, even even if it's not

623
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: directly verbally, there's an implication by refusing to wear a

624
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,959
Speaker 1: mask um that it makes you weak in some way,

625
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:41,920
Speaker 1: and you know that that. I think a lot of

626
00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 1: people glom onto that and turn it into an active

627
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,200
Speaker 1: protest where it's like I don't want to be seen

628
00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: as weak or you know, talking about conspiracy theories, there

629
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: are people out there that think the coronavirus is a hoax,

630
00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: that it's not even real, and that by putting on

631
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: a mask, you're acknowledging that it's real, or you're somehow

632
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 1: signing up for this fake news narrative of of this thing,

633
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, it's absolutely a perspective that's out there.

634
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,319
Speaker 1: It's a great way to crack down on protest. Uh,

635
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:09,279
Speaker 1: this is this is off the map of some of

636
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,600
Speaker 1: the mainstream stuff, but not so much in the US,

637
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 1: but in other countries the presence of the pandemic has

638
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 1: been used as as a well reason or excuse to

639
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: crack down on legitimate protests. So I think it's very

640
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 1: use it's a very efficacious tool for opportunists. Um. But yeah,

641
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 1: as you said at the beginning of presenting the story, Noll,

642
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: the maybe maybe there's a key change in the Great

643
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: Song of Humanity, but the progression tends to be the same,

644
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: and we know the science is there in countries or

645
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 1: parts of the world, specifically the Asia Pacific region, where

646
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: wearing master to protect others has already seen as a

647
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 1: normal day to day thing. Uh. They did a great

648
00:38:53,239 --> 00:38:55,719
Speaker 1: job combating this, you know what I mean, and we're

649
00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 1: much closer to the epicenter of the infection. Listen, guys,

650
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: I agree, Ben. I've seen those and it's very nice

651
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 1: to actually see that it is possible to clamp down

652
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:12,360
Speaker 1: on this thing with a couple fairly easy small steps.

653
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:14,680
Speaker 1: If you can get everyone to do it. That seems

654
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 1: to be the hard part. What I would say to

655
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: everyone out there listening that is already upset with us

656
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,080
Speaker 1: for talking about this. If you need to go get

657
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,279
Speaker 1: food and you absolutely refuse to wear a mask, and

658
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 1: you happen to be in the Southeast, I have some

659
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,279
Speaker 1: good news for you. You can go into any wind

660
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: Dixie any let's see what else do they have here?

661
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 1: Uh by Low Harvey Supermarket or Fresco Imas, and you

662
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:44,840
Speaker 1: don't have to wear a mask. What about Piggy Wiggly.

663
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: I'm not sure about that. I just it's a horror movie.

664
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: It's a horror movie grocery store. But they those stores

665
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 1: are requiring their employees to wear masks, but they're not

666
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 1: requiring cust On the flip side, Kroger, which I believe

667
00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:06,239
Speaker 1: is probably most of our shopping place of choice is

668
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:11,680
Speaker 1: requiring it, as is Target and UH Publics and Walmart.

669
00:40:11,719 --> 00:40:14,280
Speaker 1: Even so, you know, whether that's more of a PR

670
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,320
Speaker 1: move or what you know, you can certainly classify it

671
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 1: as that. It's definitely become this interesting line in the sand.

672
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: And even to say, you know, a grocery store with

673
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: the word Dixie in the name, UH is falling on

674
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: that particular side of the argument. I don't think is

675
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 1: an accident. You know, it's the question of private business.

676
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: It's it's up to those businesses, barring a law, it

677
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 1: is up to those businesses to kind of do what

678
00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 1: they want technically, because they were private business. If they

679
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:46,680
Speaker 1: wanted to, they could say every customer has to wear

680
00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 1: whatever the hell they randomly decide at four thirty five

681
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 1: on a Friday. It doesn't matter. They could say, like,

682
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 1: we're only letting people in if they wear purple Jinkos.

683
00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:00,440
Speaker 1: Some might say this is short side I did and

684
00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:02,960
Speaker 1: may have an effect on our bottom line. But you know,

685
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: we hear at Illumination Global Unlimited Groceries Supply Co have

686
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:11,360
Speaker 1: thought about it and Purple Jinkos or what we stand

687
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: for organization, So they gotta know you really want it.

688
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: You know, First of all, those are hard to find.

689
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:18,760
Speaker 1: You know that, even like you know, that barrier of

690
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 1: of entry, it's got to be high enough, so you're

691
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 1: you know, filtering out like the just fair weather you

692
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: know shoppers, right, Yeah, and and again it's just it's symbolically.

693
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,400
Speaker 1: Can the thing with symbols, they can function as dog whistles.

694
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:38,399
Speaker 1: The real world efficacy of any kind of symbolic act

695
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:42,720
Speaker 1: is at least partially defined by its sort of pr

696
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,239
Speaker 1: angle as much of it as it's real real effects.

697
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:51,800
Speaker 1: But if you are against masks personally, you know, I

698
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 1: want to hear I want to hear the reasons why,

699
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,319
Speaker 1: you know, I want to hear the compelling reasons why.

700
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,960
Speaker 1: And I'm not you know, I I think that in

701
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:05,600
Speaker 1: this show we've done, or in this segment at least,

702
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:10,400
Speaker 1: we've we've definitely argued in favor of wearing wearing that

703
00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 1: or you know, just like washing your hands or something,

704
00:42:14,120 --> 00:42:18,400
Speaker 1: because from what we can tell, the science is there,

705
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:24,640
Speaker 1: and the science exists independent of any one particular pandemic.

706
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 1: This is just essential disease science. It doesn't matter what

707
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: what kind of cooties are in the air, It doesn't

708
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 1: matter what, what sort of other airborne bubonic plague, et

709
00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 1: cetera is going through in some sort of miasthma in

710
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: your local grocery store. The masks seem to work, and

711
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 1: facts do not have opinions. As as is often said

712
00:42:49,760 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: by very very smart people, very very good people, very

713
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: very dumb people, and very very evil people. Everyone agrees

714
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: facts don't have opinions and maskerf act. It's true. Lasting

715
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: just there's a lot of fear about children being forced

716
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 1: to wear masks been and know that I've seen floating

717
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,399
Speaker 1: around on social media. I just want to point out

718
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:15,919
Speaker 1: here that there was a doctor in Dublin, Ireland that

719
00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:19,880
Speaker 1: ran a test where he hooked himself up to an

720
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: oxygen nation machine, or excuse me, he hooked himself up

721
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 1: to a machine that monitors his oxygen saturation levels and

722
00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: he tested after putting on one mask, then two, three,

723
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,320
Speaker 1: four or five, and then six masks, just to show

724
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: that wearing a mask doesn't prevent doesn't lower the oxygen

725
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:41,040
Speaker 1: levels in your bloodstream, which has been a big fear

726
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: for a lot of parents out there because of some

727
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 1: of these social media posts. If you are a parent

728
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: and you are thinking that this is a major issue

729
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 1: for your child. Just know that there are people out

730
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 1: there and as Ben is saying, the science does show

731
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:57,879
Speaker 1: that that doesn't you know, it isn't necessarily what you're

732
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:01,080
Speaker 1: afraid of. And make sure you check yourself versus as

733
00:44:01,120 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 1: we always say to do. And my last and final

734
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 1: thing is that, uh, it's given us a new accessory

735
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 1: people that are into fashion and love and seeing all

736
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 1: the variations and colors and types of designs of masks

737
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 1: and certainly a thing I never expected to hear someone

738
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,040
Speaker 1: complimenting my daughter and saying, nice mask, I like your mask.

739
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,239
Speaker 1: It's a weird thing to hear. But here we are. Uh.

740
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: The human brain is pretty good at normalizing weird stuff,

741
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:33,760
Speaker 1: uh pretty quickly. And will return for one last piece

742
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: of strange news. After a word from our sponsor, we're back,

743
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:48,680
Speaker 1: super producer Alexis Opradot to steam Datas. I think we

744
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:51,920
Speaker 1: might might go a little bit longer today. There is

745
00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: one last story. Uh. I feel a little bit like

746
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: a character in all those fairy tale tropes emerging at

747
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: the very end, going, I have a gift for the celebration.

748
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,840
Speaker 1: This is strange, this is developing. Now there may be

749
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:09,239
Speaker 1: more facts that emerge. We have a murder mystery. It

750
00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: is no ongoing murder mystery. It is a developing story.

751
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: The facts may change recently and tragically. There was a

752
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 1: murder in North Brunswick Township in New Jersey. Someone posing

753
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:27,399
Speaker 1: as a FedEx driver went to a home in North

754
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:32,640
Speaker 1: Brunswick about five pm. They knocked on the door, A

755
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: man answered and the FedEx. The person dressed as a

756
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:41,319
Speaker 1: FedEx driver attacked them, shot them with a firearm. The

757
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 1: man's child attempted to intervene and he was murdered. Tragic

758
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,520
Speaker 1: loss of life. Young man you know, had came from

759
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 1: a very well to do family, so he was all

760
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:58,040
Speaker 1: set to have a fantastic American dream lifestyle. But the

761
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,960
Speaker 1: story gets stranger. Unfortunately, were in the US. Homicide by

762
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: firearm is not an anomalous or even sadly times, not

763
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: even a noteworthy thing for a lot of news organizations.

764
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:14,280
Speaker 1: This story is different because the man in question, Mark

765
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 1: andrel A N. D. E. R L and his son Daniel,

766
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,640
Speaker 1: they're part of a legal family. Mark is a defense attorney.

767
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: His wife is one Esther Salas. Esther Salace is a

768
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: federal judge and she has been for a long time.

769
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: She has recently been assigned to oversee a lawsuit against

770
00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 1: Deutsche Bank, which some of our fellow listeners may recognize

771
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: from our earlier work on big banks and financial and

772
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:52,279
Speaker 1: criminal shenanigans that they pull. This lawsuit, in particular, concerns

773
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: the handling of financial matters related to the late Jeffrey Epstein. So,

774
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: as you can imagine, the people have been following the

775
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: Galain Maxwell's story are tuned to this. It's a very

776
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: strange hit. You know. The guy was dressed as a

777
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,280
Speaker 1: FedEx driver, did not have a FedEx vehicle, was wearing

778
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:16,640
Speaker 1: a face covering, and came there with a premeditated, predetermined

779
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:21,319
Speaker 1: plan to murder the family. Currently, authorities are saying the

780
00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,040
Speaker 1: motive for the shooting is unclear. The name of the

781
00:47:24,120 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 1: suspect has not been revealed. The latest update I had

782
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,759
Speaker 1: going into recording today is that the body of the

783
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 1: suspect was found. The body of the suspect has been

784
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:40,799
Speaker 1: found shortly after we record this. As you said, Matt

785
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: earlier on July uh he was discovered with what authorities

786
00:47:45,200 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: are describing as an apparently self inflicted gunshot wound outside

787
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:52,080
Speaker 1: a vehicle in Liberty, New York. As a matter of fact,

788
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,520
Speaker 1: how real time is this? Just got an update from

789
00:47:55,640 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 1: some friends of mine following the story. The suspect is

790
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,839
Speaker 1: confirmed to be one roy Den Hollander, seventy two years old.

791
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: He is an attorney who had a case before solace in.

792
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:13,600
Speaker 1: This is, according to anonymous sources in law enforcement, sketchy stuff.

793
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:17,680
Speaker 1: We've got an assassin who attempts a murder, apparently doesn't

794
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,399
Speaker 1: get the person he was trying to kill, and then

795
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:24,120
Speaker 1: takes his own life. And it's connected with financial crimes

796
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,640
Speaker 1: tied to the Epstein case, as we record right now,

797
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:30,480
Speaker 1: Galine Maxwell is I just checked this before he went

798
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 1: to air, still alive, right, hasn't caught COVID or a

799
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: suicide attempt yet. But I wanted to bring this to

800
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: you guys and ask what you think you I mean,

801
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: judges get death threats, that's just part of the job.

802
00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 1: But do you think this, let's just address the elephant

803
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 1: in the room. Do you think this is in any

804
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 1: way related to the ongoing Epstein scandal the people who

805
00:48:56,840 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 1: got away. I mean, if it was, it would be

806
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: a warning, right because you just because you kill a

807
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,800
Speaker 1: federal judge that's working on a case doesn't mean another

808
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:09,560
Speaker 1: judge doesn't get assigned to it if she truly is Solace.

809
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 1: Judge Solace truly was the target here, and it wasn't

810
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: Mark Androll the husband, because you know, he was a

811
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney. And that's another very common thing, is

812
00:49:22,640 --> 00:49:26,319
Speaker 1: to have a defense attorney that some person felt they

813
00:49:26,360 --> 00:49:29,040
Speaker 1: got it wrong or they didn't defend them properly. They

814
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:32,319
Speaker 1: would be a target possibly of someone who was who

815
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,440
Speaker 1: had bad intentions or felt as though they were wronged.

816
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,759
Speaker 1: It's a tough one because I don't think we have

817
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: enough information yet to determine what actually happened. This is silly,

818
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: but I'm maybe I'm a little skeptical even that they

819
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: got the right person. Maybe they maybe they actually did

820
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,120
Speaker 1: for sure, I just don't know. Um, any time a

821
00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:55,400
Speaker 1: suspect ends up being dead by the time they're found,

822
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, and identified, it always makes me want to

823
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,879
Speaker 1: wait to get more information. But with a criminal case

824
00:50:02,960 --> 00:50:06,440
Speaker 1: like that, if you've found the killer, essentially you've you

825
00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: have made the determination that the killer has been found

826
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:14,080
Speaker 1: and they are dead. There's not much else to do, uh,

827
00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: in the investigation. Well, it's certainly red meat for conspiracy speculation. Right, um,

828
00:50:20,960 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 1: in the same way that the untimely death of the

829
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 1: gentleman that was a slam dunk supposedly for those anthrax

830
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,760
Speaker 1: male attempts back right around when nine eleven took place

831
00:50:33,800 --> 00:50:35,919
Speaker 1: that I believe you were out on that one, Matt.

832
00:50:35,960 --> 00:50:38,680
Speaker 1: But but Ben and I did that one. And always

833
00:50:38,800 --> 00:50:41,719
Speaker 1: very sketchy when someone I mean, on the one hand,

834
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: there's the implication of guilt when someone takes their own

835
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: life when they're being pursued. But then on the other hand,

836
00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, there's certainly could be weirder things have happened

837
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: than someone being taken out and made to look like

838
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:58,359
Speaker 1: a suicide attempt so that people stop asking questions, you know. So,

839
00:50:58,640 --> 00:51:00,520
Speaker 1: like you said, Matt, not enough in ormation here to

840
00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: know which one this is, but certainly a little suspicious.

841
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,359
Speaker 1: It's strange because if you look, roy Den Hollander has

842
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:11,239
Speaker 1: been repeatedly described as a quote anti feminist lawyer, so

843
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:15,160
Speaker 1: he had to be completely fair. He had political stances

844
00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: that he was widely published on in a period on

845
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:23,479
Speaker 1: he is what was called a men's right activist. It well,

846
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:27,000
Speaker 1: it's still it feels like there's more people's political views

847
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: of their own. It feels like there's more to the

848
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: story here because most activists are not dressing up like

849
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: delivery service workers and shooting people, and especially if this

850
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: guy was an attorney, Attorneys don't typically pursue vengeance in

851
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: that fashion. Now there is some truth to the dirty

852
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: the dirty stories and urban legends, and attorney might hire

853
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: someone to kill someone that's really more you know, their

854
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:59,760
Speaker 1: m O, rather than putting their physical finger on the trigger.

855
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: It's interesting because if we look into this and we

856
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 1: start to if you guys will permit me to play

857
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: Charlie Dave Pepe Sylvia here, Uh, just a week prior

858
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:14,760
Speaker 1: to this, another attorney associated with the Men's Brights movement,

859
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: a guy named Mark Angolucci, was killed by a delivery man,

860
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: or by someone dressed as a delivery man. Um. So

861
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:26,279
Speaker 1: so you see what I'm saying. I know we don't

862
00:52:26,320 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 1: have enough information, but there's something here. Maybe even the

863
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:33,799
Speaker 1: Epstein connection is a red Harry. I'm not sure, but

864
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 1: there's too much. There's too much screwy about this right now,

865
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 1: which I know is not the most articulate I've ever

866
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 1: been on this show. But the thing is he also

867
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:48,879
Speaker 1: had this guy, Um roy Den Hollander also had some

868
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: stances on Russia. There's not a mug shot or evidence

869
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:56,720
Speaker 1: of this. Maybe part of it is just the fog

870
00:52:56,760 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: of war as new things emerge, but does seem very strange.

871
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,399
Speaker 1: Fox News, by the way, it was originally censored all

872
00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:09,120
Speaker 1: mentioned of the bank or of Epstein. And maybe that's

873
00:53:09,160 --> 00:53:13,719
Speaker 1: because they didn't want to have too much sensationalism. But

874
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know. You know, more and

875
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:18,120
Speaker 1: more on the Epstein case. A lot of people have

876
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:22,880
Speaker 1: written asking for further updates, especially with the Galaine Maxwell arrest.

877
00:53:23,160 --> 00:53:27,239
Speaker 1: It has intelligence agency fingerprints on it, the idea of

878
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:30,359
Speaker 1: compromising people like that. The various sources that have come

879
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 1: through anonymously so far saying that Maxwell does possess photographic

880
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:41,319
Speaker 1: and video evidence of some pretty serious crimes. I don't know,

881
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,239
Speaker 1: what do you guys think intelligence agency, I mean, compromat

882
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,680
Speaker 1: is a thing. The CIA did it, the KGB has

883
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 1: done it well, I don't know, really quickly. That's also

884
00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: not forget that. Um. You know, the President of the

885
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: United States has some pretty long standing ties to Deutsche

886
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: Bank as well. Um. And it is a notoriously yeah no,

887
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: I mean, it's on the surface it's a respectable operation,

888
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,440
Speaker 1: but this certainly isn't a good look the lawsuit in

889
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: general and its relationship with a guy like Epstein. Um.

890
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,480
Speaker 1: So that's a little bit interesting too. There as an

891
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,360
Speaker 1: article that just came out in the Financial Times Deutsche

892
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:23,680
Speaker 1: banks ties to Donald Trump um dissected that just came

893
00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 1: out in May by Tom Braithwait, so if you're interested,

894
00:54:27,760 --> 00:54:30,160
Speaker 1: I want to find out more about those connections, give

895
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:32,800
Speaker 1: it a look. Essentially, at several points of the bank

896
00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:41,439
Speaker 1: gave Donald Trump incredibly extraordinarily favorable loan terms and did

897
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: not follow up on recouping those loans in a way

898
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: that a normal business would do. To put it in perspective,

899
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: the vast majority of people listening to this episode today,

900
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,839
Speaker 1: if you try to handle alone the way that that

901
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 1: bank and that individual and to you know, not to

902
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: just keep approbrium on Trump. There were other high net

903
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: value people v i p s that the bank was

904
00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:10,719
Speaker 1: doing this with. They just have a different system. If

905
00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:12,799
Speaker 1: you were trying to do what some of these v

906
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,800
Speaker 1: i p s are doing, loan wise, you would be arrested.

907
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,640
Speaker 1: You would be arrested, you'd be bankrupted, you go to court.

908
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:21,799
Speaker 1: It just the rules are not the same. And and

909
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 1: you know, and and Trump has written about this as well,

910
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:25,800
Speaker 1: where he defends the bank as being, you know, it

911
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 1: was the best bank. It was like, you know, the

912
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: gold standard. It's the Germans. You're dealing with their you know,

913
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: known for their uh prowess with dealing with money and

914
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,960
Speaker 1: finance and all that stuff. However, the Federal Reserve Um,

915
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: at least according to this article in the Financial Times,

916
00:55:40,080 --> 00:55:43,840
Speaker 1: regards Deutsche Bank as a badly missus quote from the article,

917
00:55:43,840 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: I've decided a badly managed lender with weak money laundering controls,

918
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,319
Speaker 1: which makes sense considering that we do see their name

919
00:55:51,400 --> 00:55:55,680
Speaker 1: pop up quite often in money laundering type cases. I

920
00:55:55,719 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: want to I want to go back to the story,

921
00:55:59,440 --> 00:56:04,799
Speaker 1: back to you this assassination attempts and and start trying

922
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,759
Speaker 1: to draw see see what's out there. I don't think

923
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,759
Speaker 1: we're I agree with you, Matt. I don't think we're

924
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,320
Speaker 1: out to the point where we have a definitive statement.

925
00:56:12,320 --> 00:56:16,880
Speaker 1: But we may not have a definitive conclusion here. According

926
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,200
Speaker 1: to the Federal court records, Solace was assigned to handle

927
00:56:22,200 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: a class action lawsuit that was bought against Outen Bank

928
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 1: by Ali Karemi and This was on behalf of investors

929
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:33,880
Speaker 1: who purchased securities from the bank between November seven all

930
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:37,640
Speaker 1: the way up to July six. The court records show

931
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:41,000
Speaker 1: the bank quote failed to properly monitor customers that the

932
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:44,720
Speaker 1: bank itself deemed to be high risk, including, among others,

933
00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: the convicted sex offender Jeffrey Epstein. So this is not

934
00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:56,239
Speaker 1: Internet speculation. The federal court level records state the Epstein

935
00:56:56,400 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: connection and highlight it. And also, if we look at

936
00:57:01,440 --> 00:57:06,359
Speaker 1: judges or attempted assassinations of judges, Okay, this isn't the same.

937
00:57:06,400 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 1: All across the world being a judge can be a

938
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: dangerous profession, but here in the US it's incredibly rare

939
00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:16,520
Speaker 1: for this to happen. You'll get emails, to get angry letters,

940
00:57:16,560 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 1: someone will, you know, poop in a box and mail

941
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,800
Speaker 1: it to your office. But people are not going to

942
00:57:22,920 --> 00:57:26,439
Speaker 1: take an assassination attempt out after you. And it reminds me, Matt,

943
00:57:26,480 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: you'll remember this of the Detro affair, uh, the child

944
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: abuse ring in Belgium when the prosecutors and the judges

945
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: were threatened and I think witnesses started dying in mattress

946
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:42,520
Speaker 1: fires and stuff. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't remind me that

947
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:46,160
Speaker 1: a little bit. But I think it's being I'm worried

948
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 1: that the Epstein thing is clouding everything else in this case.

949
00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:52,919
Speaker 1: The more I'm reading about Hollander on the New York

950
00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,760
Speaker 1: Post right now, you know, we we mentioned that he's

951
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: a men's rights attorney, you know, in in that he's

952
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,200
Speaker 1: coined as that or he described in that way. He's

953
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:07,640
Speaker 1: done all kinds of interesting lawsuits, everything from alleging that

954
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: a bunch of these New York night clubs um by

955
00:58:11,400 --> 00:58:15,600
Speaker 1: offering ladies night specials and everything are you know, sexist

956
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 1: and quote unquote bastions of bigotry and all these things.

957
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:23,560
Speaker 1: He got sued, or he sued Jim Norton after going

958
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 1: on the Opie and Anthony show dis Guided. He's real,

959
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: I mean, he's an interesting character. There's a quote here

960
00:58:31,040 --> 00:58:35,720
Speaker 1: from a lawyer, an attorney named Vic Power or part Power.

961
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,840
Speaker 1: It says he's speaking about Hollander, he was extremely professional

962
00:58:41,880 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: and well read. Um. But he goes on to talk

963
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:51,160
Speaker 1: about how um this guy Vic Power represented a New

964
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,160
Speaker 1: York Police Department detective that Hollander believed was part of

965
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: a conspiracy with his ex wife her lawyers. The Russian

966
00:59:00,080 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 1: Mexican mafia and some New York City strip clubs. Like,

967
00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:06,439
Speaker 1: right there, you're painting a very different picture of this

968
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: guy or very um you know, a picture of him

969
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: that just seems like maybe he was prone to believing.

970
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, he was personally motivated because of that. Well, yeah,

971
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:23,800
Speaker 1: this is what I'm thinking here, because it may have

972
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: something to do with Solace, because he did want a

973
00:59:27,040 --> 00:59:29,800
Speaker 1: female judge, Right, that's what we were talking about. He

974
00:59:29,800 --> 00:59:34,720
Speaker 1: he was going through this um, this suit, and he

975
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:37,400
Speaker 1: kept saying that he wanted a male judge, he needed

976
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: a male judge, and Salace was appointed to his case.

977
00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,560
Speaker 1: And maybe he had some kind of long standing feud

978
00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:47,720
Speaker 1: because of that with her, or a feud that he believed. Right,

979
00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: what do you mean? What do you mean? What do

980
00:59:49,080 --> 00:59:50,920
Speaker 1: you mean he wanted a male judge? Like? Is that?

981
00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:55,560
Speaker 1: Like you can't like ask who your judge is, right,

982
00:59:55,840 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 1: Like I don't. You can you can request recusal. So

983
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:03,720
Speaker 1: because he's a woman hater, if he had a woman

984
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,120
Speaker 1: he wouldn't be getting a fair shake, Is that the implication?

985
01:00:06,280 --> 01:00:10,480
Speaker 1: Because he's finish to finish the thought? Um, you can

986
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:15,240
Speaker 1: ask for a recusal if there is a conflict of interest,

987
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: as you would see, and maybe in his mind that

988
01:00:19,440 --> 01:00:22,680
Speaker 1: functioned as a conflict of interest. But generally speaking, a

989
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:26,720
Speaker 1: conflict of interest is to the point where recusal occurs.

990
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: Is something where it's like the judge says, I cannot

991
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,720
Speaker 1: rule on this case because I own like three million

992
01:00:34,880 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: dollars worth of stock in Conlomco, so I can't. I'm

993
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,760
Speaker 1: not a good source of education for Conclomco. Right. The

994
01:00:42,760 --> 01:00:47,080
Speaker 1: implication is almost that like, oh, a female judge wouldn't

995
01:00:47,080 --> 01:00:52,000
Speaker 1: be able to put her opinions about the person's politics aside. Uh, therefore,

996
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: so that's almost insulting. It's like saying that would be

997
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:58,640
Speaker 1: a person acting unprofessionally. Right. It's interesting though, because then

998
01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 1: look at the timeline this case is in. That's there

999
01:01:02,720 --> 01:01:06,200
Speaker 1: what we know best about their direct interaction. But here,

1000
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,160
Speaker 1: according to the New York Post, right now, tell me

1001
01:01:08,200 --> 01:01:10,760
Speaker 1: if this is incorrector if you've got different information, Ben,

1002
01:01:11,360 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: they're saying that Hollander had a case pending before Solace

1003
01:01:15,160 --> 01:01:18,880
Speaker 1: right then, and it was it was challenging the United

1004
01:01:18,880 --> 01:01:23,480
Speaker 1: States militaries men only draft. That's according to The Daily

1005
01:01:23,520 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 1: Beast via the New York Post. Here, but I don't

1006
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:28,880
Speaker 1: know if that's correct or not. Well, we know that

1007
01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:32,960
Speaker 1: he had a package in the vehicle that was found

1008
01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: in Liberty, New York. He had a package that looked

1009
01:01:35,800 --> 01:01:40,320
Speaker 1: to be a FedEx package addressed to Solace. So is definitely, again,

1010
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:43,520
Speaker 1: if he is the shooter, it definitely seems that he

1011
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 1: was shooting for Solace rather than for her spouse or

1012
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:52,880
Speaker 1: her child. It's it's disturbing because, Yeah, the Daily Beast

1013
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:56,120
Speaker 1: article you're talking about came out while we were recording.

1014
01:01:56,280 --> 01:01:59,040
Speaker 1: Looks like this story is still so fresh baked. Um.

1015
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: We don't know whether the spouse will survive. We know

1016
01:02:05,120 --> 01:02:07,720
Speaker 1: that this guy was the best word to describe it,

1017
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:13,240
Speaker 1: would be polemical in his views. That's just an extreme stance,

1018
01:02:13,480 --> 01:02:17,200
Speaker 1: a controversial stance of some sort. You can be polemical

1019
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:19,480
Speaker 1: about all sorts of things, and he seems to be

1020
01:02:20,000 --> 01:02:25,240
Speaker 1: polemical about his view of what he calls men's rights

1021
01:02:25,400 --> 01:02:28,600
Speaker 1: or anti feminism, which is a phrase I haven't heard

1022
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:33,040
Speaker 1: as much. It looks like we're talking about the same

1023
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:37,080
Speaker 1: suit here, Matt. It looks like it was filed in

1024
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:42,720
Speaker 1: with Hollander as an advisor. There were oral arguments on

1025
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: emotions scheduled for this previous month, but they were postponed

1026
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:50,600
Speaker 1: due to what the case stock it describes as unforeseen

1027
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,360
Speaker 1: circumstances that could be anything that could be COVID. Right, Yeah,

1028
01:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,400
Speaker 1: it's probably COVID. I mean, I don't, I don't want

1029
01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:00,919
Speaker 1: to guess. I am I'm guessing it's COVID. Wow. That's

1030
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 1: this is an intense story. Ben, Wow, thank you for

1031
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:07,720
Speaker 1: bringing this to our attention, but we haven't. It's it's

1032
01:03:07,720 --> 01:03:11,360
Speaker 1: an itch under my skin that we need to see

1033
01:03:11,600 --> 01:03:16,280
Speaker 1: more details here. Um, is it just you know, is

1034
01:03:16,320 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: the media reporting the Epstein connection just to kind of

1035
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: capitalize on the interest in the news cycle? Possible? Uh?

1036
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:28,480
Speaker 1: Is there is there more to the story? I am

1037
01:03:28,520 --> 01:03:33,960
Speaker 1: intensely interested in doing a deep dive into the intelligence

1038
01:03:34,040 --> 01:03:38,600
Speaker 1: agency allegations concerning Maxwell and Epstein in a future episode.

1039
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:40,600
Speaker 1: A lot of our fellow listeners have written in to

1040
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:44,880
Speaker 1: ask about it. But for this story, at this point,

1041
01:03:45,360 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: it appears that Hollander, if he was the shooter, was

1042
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:52,760
Speaker 1: himself just deeply disturbed. Uh, and maybe not you know,

1043
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:55,880
Speaker 1: on some kind of mission from some sort of well,

1044
01:03:55,960 --> 01:03:58,600
Speaker 1: let's just say it probably doesn't. There are no indicators

1045
01:03:58,680 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: right now that he was on a mission. From some

1046
01:04:00,440 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: kind of cabal or something like that, or that the

1047
01:04:04,280 --> 01:04:09,919
Speaker 1: homicide was related specifically to the upcoming financial corruption case

1048
01:04:09,960 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 1: with the Bank at Epstein. But again the Bank Epstein,

1049
01:04:15,000 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 1: various political figures of all stripes. There's something. There's a web.

1050
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: There's a web there. I'm telling you, so listen. We

1051
01:04:22,960 --> 01:04:24,960
Speaker 1: need you to write to us, tell us what you

1052
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,760
Speaker 1: think about this case and everything else we've talked about

1053
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,000
Speaker 1: on this episode. You can reach us on social media.

1054
01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,080
Speaker 1: Were conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show all over the place,

1055
01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:37,800
Speaker 1: you'll find us. You'll know what to do. Head over

1056
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,840
Speaker 1: to here's where it gets crazy on Facebook. That's our

1057
01:04:40,920 --> 01:04:44,880
Speaker 1: special show page. That's our community where everyone you included,

1058
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:47,040
Speaker 1: can get together and discuss all of this stuff in

1059
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:49,200
Speaker 1: one big forum. If you don't want to do that,

1060
01:04:49,280 --> 01:04:51,240
Speaker 1: give us a call. That's right. You can reach us

1061
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Speaker 1: at one eight three S T D W Y T

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Speaker 1: K and Um. The badger is out of the bag.

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01:04:56,880 --> 01:05:00,920
Speaker 1: We're gonna do these episodes where we hear from you. Yes, you.

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Speaker 1: The most important part of the show is Ben would

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01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:07,520
Speaker 1: say um every week, So go ahead, give us a call. Um.

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Speaker 1: Make sure that you let us know if you want

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01:05:09,160 --> 01:05:10,880
Speaker 1: to be anonymous you don't want us to use your name,

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01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:12,320
Speaker 1: or if maybe you don't even want us to use

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01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,160
Speaker 1: the story or at least your audio, we certainly could

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01:05:15,240 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: just retell the story or um we can even disguise

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01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 1: your voice. We do all kinds of stuff. We want

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01:05:20,240 --> 01:05:22,640
Speaker 1: to make sure everyone is super comfortable when when calling

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01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:24,520
Speaker 1: into that number. If you don't want to do any

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01:05:24,560 --> 01:05:26,560
Speaker 1: of that, you can just send us a good old

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01:05:26,600 --> 01:05:49,520
Speaker 1: fashioned email. We are conspiracy at i heart radio dot com.

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01:05:49,640 --> 01:05:51,720
Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production

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01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:54,880
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

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01:05:55,040 --> 01:05:58,080
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

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Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.