1 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:06,439 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff Mom never told you From house supports 2 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: and I'm Kristin. Today we are talking about hair or 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,960 Speaker 1: not hair or some hair or a little hair, long hair, 5 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: back hair, men hair, men hair, yeah, man hair. I 6 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: happened to be very pro man hair. Um. I am 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: dating someone who has a fantastic beard. It is a 8 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 1: glorious beard. I've seen a Caroline glorious beard. And you 9 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: know what, I didn't always prefer beards. It was in 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 1: college I would have said no to the beard face. 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 1: But I don't know if something happened in my formative 12 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 1: post college years and and now now I am pro beard, 13 00:00:49,479 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: pro beard. Yeah, I am dating a gentleman who is 14 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: less hairy, and I love him just the same. I'm 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 1: also very pro beard. Um. And but and he gets 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: a nice little scruff. But no, it is no glorious 17 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,959 Speaker 1: beard like your your gentleman's beard. I will say that right. 18 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: And um, he does my gentleman. Uh does a little 19 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,480 Speaker 1: bit of cleaning up. He does like the barbershop on 20 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: occasion to get it to get it shaped. But he's 21 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: not big into like a whole lot of man escaping, 22 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: And we should say that this episode is not devoted 23 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: to beards, but we have to start this conversation off 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: with the beard, because this rising popularity of men and 25 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 1: their beards is not not not to be confused with 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: a metaphorical beard as another podcast episode. Uh. This beard popularity, though, 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: has had a fascinating ripple effect in the male grooming 28 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 1: industry right and in marketing and advertising in general. So 29 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 1: let's talk about this quote unquote trend, shall we um? 30 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: And we know it's a trend because a million different 31 00:01:59,240 --> 00:02:02,720 Speaker 1: publications have told us that it's a trend, including the 32 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 1: New York Times, who back in January, all the way 33 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,239 Speaker 1: back in January of this year reported on beards as 34 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: if they were this fancy new thing out of Brooklyn. Yeah, 35 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 1: and all of it sort of kicked off with the 36 00:02:16,760 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: White House Press Secretary Jay Carney coming out for the 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: first press conference, often sporting a beard. And so the 38 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:29,360 Speaker 1: New York Times says, well, if there are beards in 39 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: the White House, then something must be afoot because they 40 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 1: also cited to Lloyd C. Blankfein, who's the Goldman Sex 41 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: chief executive, who was wearing a beard at the World 42 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: Economic Form and when I say wearing a beard, I 43 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: feel like that sounds like it was just like a 44 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: scarf that he wrapped around his face. Yeah, or it 45 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: had little hooks that hooked behind his ears. Yeah, he 46 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: would take off. Yeah. No. Um, even Matt Lower and 47 00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: l Broker were sporting beards as part of No Shave 48 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:02,239 Speaker 1: Today back in November, as part of the whole November 49 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 1: movement growing your mustache and support of men's health, and um, 50 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:09,519 Speaker 1: it's just funny to see facial hair reported on as 51 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: if it's like hot pink stilettos or something like, oh 52 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,520 Speaker 1: my goodness, look at what they're wearing. Well. I didn't 53 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: do any research into the author that this New York 54 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:23,359 Speaker 1: Times reporter, but I'm curious just in this fascination with 55 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: men of great social status sporting beards. I'm wondering if 56 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 1: this reporter was a little bit older, because for our 57 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: parents generation, having a beard would have been considered very counterculture. Um, 58 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: and now it's you know, this maybe baffling to them 59 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 1: that it's this almost not status symbol, but it's a 60 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: cool thing for a guy to have a beard. And 61 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 1: I will say that my favorite phrase also from that 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: article was quote Duck Dynasty style monstrosity. Well, no, I 63 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,360 Speaker 1: will say that the Duck Dynasty beards are monstrosities, and 64 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: I risk getting hate mail for this. But those men, 65 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: some of those men on that show are are handsome. 66 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: The younger men, Yeah, they there's some handsome handsomeness behind 67 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: those beards. But yeah, there's a there. There could also 68 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 1: be a lot of things objects hidden within those beards, 69 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: judging by Okay, so the days that it's cold outside 70 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,280 Speaker 1: and I'm wearing a scarf, judging by the amount of 71 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: food crumbs I find in the scarf at the end 72 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:22,119 Speaker 1: of the day, I can only imagine what they find 73 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:26,920 Speaker 1: in their beards. Yes, yes, whole slim gyms, cheese cubes. 74 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 1: But this this beard thing is apparently such a trend. 75 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: It is so popular and in style right now that 76 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: people are going so far as to get beard implants. 77 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: And there aren't any hard numbers around the this rise 78 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: and beard transplants, but anecdotally at least, plastic surgeons are 79 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: saying that more men and especially men in their twenties 80 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,720 Speaker 1: and thirties are coming in plunking down up to eight 81 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: hundred dollars for beard transplants. We'll see that's weird. My 82 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: question is like, once either this is not a trend 83 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 1: and it's not cool, or you just personally decide you 84 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: don't want a beard anymore. Aren't you left with scars? 85 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how transplants like that really work. Yeah, 86 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: I have no idea there There wasn't that was left 87 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,640 Speaker 1: out of all of these reports on beard transplants was 88 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: how you know what happens if you don't want that 89 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:21,679 Speaker 1: hair anymore? But speaking of scars, the guy who first 90 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: developed this procedure Dr Bess and far Joe over in 91 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: the u K. He was the founder of the far 92 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 1: Joe Hair Institute, and he developed this beard transplant particularly 93 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: for people who were victims of burns who had a 94 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:37,359 Speaker 1: lot of face scarring, sort of as a way to 95 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: cover it up. But now it's just more of a 96 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: fashion statement, right And Dr Jeffrey Epstein, who's in Midtown, 97 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: Manhattan based plastic surgeon, who was quoted by The New 98 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 1: York Post in February, says that his clients want full 99 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: beards because it's a masculine look. Beards are an important 100 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: male identifier, so there's that aspect of it. You want 101 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: to look manly or but the New York Post itself 102 00:06:01,240 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: referred to this as a hipster inspired style, a lumberjack 103 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: meets roady hybrid that was made popular in neighborhoods such 104 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: as Williamsburg, Bushwick and Park Slope. So they're very like 105 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: hammering down on the fact of it apparently stems from 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: these certain neighborhoods. Yeah, I mean those are those are 107 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 1: definitely the hipster hotbeds in the Northeast. Um and Epstein 108 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: says that he now performs two or three of these 109 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: procedures each week, and what they do is take hair 110 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,560 Speaker 1: from other body parts like a dude's head or his chest, 111 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: and then hair by hair implant it into the face, 112 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 1: which sounds horrendously painful, but again anecdotally, patients seem happy 113 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 1: with it. And there was a follow up article on 114 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 1: this in CNN and they would to wear around to 115 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: other hipster hot beds, which made me laugh and reported 116 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: that also plastic surgeons in places like Portland's, Austin, Nashville, 117 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:05,040 Speaker 1: and even over in London are are seeing this trend 118 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: as well. I thought, I seriously thought this New York 119 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: Post article on it was a joke. I seriously did 120 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: but then but it is not, and I it just 121 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: blows my mind because I don't personally that I know 122 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: of I know any guy who would actually go through 123 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: with it, because it seems like such an undertaking. I 124 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:27,240 Speaker 1: do know guys who are insecure about their inability to 125 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: grow beards. Um. Actually shameless plug for the Smenty YouTube channel, 126 00:07:32,640 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: I did a video recently called the Science of Stubble, 127 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: looking at why some guys can't grow beards, because yeah, 128 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: I've talked to two friends of I just have patchy 129 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: beards or can barely even grow a shadow over their lip, 130 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: and so I think that I think there is some 131 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 1: some self consciousness out there because beards are also considered 132 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: that sign of outward masculinity, even though Caroline fun fact, 133 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 1: it has nothing to do with your levels of testosterone. 134 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: If you cannot grow beard, good to know. I'll keep 135 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: that in my back pocket. You remember that, well you growing. 136 00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Not being able to grow your beard does not mean 137 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: you have LOWD to Okay, that actually might mean um well. 138 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 1: Hopping on this conversation bandwagon is gq um, who declares 139 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: that the trend is actually over based on the fact 140 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,679 Speaker 1: solely that the New York Times has said the beard 141 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: is a trend. G Q says it's no longer a trend. 142 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: They're they're mainly making fun of the New York Times article, 143 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 1: but they're pointing out that, Hello, plenty of businessmen both 144 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 1: past and present have sported beards. Yeah, Scott Christian Sites, 145 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: Steve jobs, Been, Bernanke, Larry Ellison, uh, former richest man 146 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:50,360 Speaker 1: in the world, Carlos Slim, all these different guys of 147 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: you know, prominent stature who have beards, and his headline 148 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: kind of stummed it all up. Beards are officially uncool 149 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:01,679 Speaker 1: because the New York Times called them a trend, and 150 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: there is I mean, New York trend. Pieces like this 151 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: are hilarious because they are often so completely obvious and 152 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 1: make a lot out of what is kind of a 153 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:16,320 Speaker 1: little And he describes them as the media obverse of 154 00:09:16,520 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: Cartesian philosophy. I think therefore I am no longer so. 155 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 1: Once New York Times says something is, then apparently Brooklyn 156 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,680 Speaker 1: guys are gonna be running home and grabbing their razors. 157 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: It's kind of like the equivalent of my mother getting 158 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:35,359 Speaker 1: on Facebook. Yeah, like okay, all right, all right, um, 159 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,840 Speaker 1: but I mean, okay, so so now we're getting into 160 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,960 Speaker 1: the whole point, which is this beard trend. Man, it 161 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: is hurting razor sales, and a lot of these companies 162 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: like Gillette and Braun and other companies like that, are 163 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: turning to other options to make their money. Yeah, And 164 00:09:54,480 --> 00:09:57,040 Speaker 1: what they're essentially doing is saying, Okay, well, guys aren't 165 00:09:57,040 --> 00:10:00,120 Speaker 1: as concerned about shaving their face every day, so what 166 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: can we make them more concerned about hair wise so 167 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: we can keep selling these razors. Oh yeah, body hair 168 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: man scaping right. So according to NPR back in January, 169 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:16,600 Speaker 1: I love it because at the same time as these 170 00:10:16,640 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: beard trend stories are coming out, in PR starts reporting 171 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:24,079 Speaker 1: that Procter and Gamble uh is complaining that this facial 172 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: hair trend is hurting their sales and their razor division. 173 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: They even Proctor and Gamble even singled out November, which 174 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: is the tradition of growing facial hair to promote awareness 175 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: of prostate cancer. They even singled that out as part 176 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,000 Speaker 1: of the reason why their sales are down. They also 177 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 1: say it's sparked by a shift to disposal razors over 178 00:10:42,920 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 1: the traditional blade and cartridge systems. But because of all this, 179 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: they are turning to manscaping as an answer to declining sales. 180 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:55,360 Speaker 1: And by manscaping, we mean guys shaving things other than 181 00:10:55,760 --> 00:11:00,080 Speaker 1: their faces. And um, for a little more specificity, with 182 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:04,400 Speaker 1: Procter and Gambles razors sales, the sale of their Razors 183 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:08,560 Speaker 1: amblades were down seven point eight percent in the twelve 184 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: weeks through December twenty one, so that does seem to 185 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,559 Speaker 1: correlate perhaps to November. Um. And but their entire grooming division, 186 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,679 Speaker 1: which includes razors, shaving cream and deodorant, was actually up 187 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: three percent last year. But um, I mean, but that's 188 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: not huge numbers, so I don't know. I kind of 189 00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:28,560 Speaker 1: wonder how much This is also Procter and Gamble just 190 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: sort of taking advantage of the trend to say, oh, yeah, yeah, 191 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: we were really scared of beard, so we were selling 192 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: all these other things, right, Uh, like this razor sold 193 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:43,760 Speaker 1: by models. Guys. Look, it's Kate Upton. She doesn't like 194 00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,560 Speaker 1: back hair, right, Yeah, they had they hired Kate Upton 195 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,360 Speaker 1: and two other models to basically shill for different types 196 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: of Gillette razors, different manscaping things. You know. It's they're like, here, 197 00:11:56,840 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: let's just get some really attractive women on camera to 198 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: tell you how this gusting you are to breathe this 199 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: insecurity so that you'll buy our products to clean yourself up. Yeah, 200 00:12:04,360 --> 00:12:08,600 Speaker 1: And along with these videos of Kate Upton and I 201 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: was a little disappointed to see Hannah Simone, who is 202 00:12:12,840 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: on the New Girl UM talking about how guys just 203 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: like Nandal's shave I mean, and it really, I'm not 204 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: trying to make fun of women. It really was in 205 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,839 Speaker 1: the tone of like, I mean, if we shave, Gosh 206 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: jev on a spotial of their chests and box and 207 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: it's the same kind of insecurities being pedaled to women 208 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:40,840 Speaker 1: of like, ladies, we should shave so guys, male models 209 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,600 Speaker 1: will want us, right. And this this definitely is not 210 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: a new m O because this is exactly what Gillette 211 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:53,360 Speaker 1: did a hundred years ago to women. Basically, uh, women 212 00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:55,600 Speaker 1: were not shaving any more than men were. But in 213 00:12:55,679 --> 00:12:59,840 Speaker 1: nineteen fifteen, Gillette created the first razer specifically for women. 214 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:02,280 Speaker 1: But it had to create the market for it. And 215 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: so you know, there's all of these this like huge 216 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,320 Speaker 1: advertising blitz calling body here unsightly on women, creating this 217 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: desire among women to basically, you know, clean themselves up 218 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: so to speak, by getting rid of body. Here it 219 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: also coincides with, you know, the rise of flapper dresses, 220 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:23,560 Speaker 1: so you've got him lines going up sleeves, coming off advertising, 221 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: praying on newly created insecurities. And I do really like 222 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: that the that the very first Gillette razor for women 223 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:37,920 Speaker 1: was called them Milady decletead Milady. Oh yes. And because 224 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 1: it wasn't until even after that, about a decade later, 225 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: that a woman bearing her under arm with her arm 226 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,360 Speaker 1: over her head was shown in a magazine for the 227 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,200 Speaker 1: first time. I mean, the under arm was a part 228 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: of a woman's body that you wouldn't even see, much 229 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: less feel that you needed to shave. Whereas today, of course, 230 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: if you're a woman who chooses to grow her armpit 231 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: hair out, you're considered this total radical who oh certainly 232 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: couldn't be, you know, at all interested in men because 233 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,079 Speaker 1: you have hair and in two spots on your body, 234 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: very small spots from your body. It is funny how 235 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 1: how grooming can be considered such a different types of 236 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,760 Speaker 1: grooming can be considered so radical. But Lisa Wade over 237 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 1: at the Society Pages and her blog writes about how 238 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:28,640 Speaker 1: this is sexual objectification of male bodies. This is it's 239 00:14:28,680 --> 00:14:31,240 Speaker 1: the same thing that happened to women, it's now happening 240 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: to men, and they're using advertisers are using gender ideology 241 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: to sort of breed this need to follow directions for 242 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: lack of a better term. Yeah, I mean, if you 243 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 1: think about all of the images that you see of 244 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: guys in magazines, of famous actors, two movie images also 245 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: pop up in my head when I think about this 246 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: evolution is quick evolution actually of these uh you know, 247 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 1: telling guys that less the hair is better. You have 248 00:15:02,280 --> 00:15:05,000 Speaker 1: Steve Carrell in The Four year Old Virgin getting his 249 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: chest whacked waxed because oh he's a virgin, he needs 250 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: to have sex, so let's get rid of all of 251 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: his unsightly chest hair. Ha ha ha, and it's so funny. 252 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,840 Speaker 1: And then fast forward also in a movie with Steve Carrell, 253 00:15:19,640 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: Crazy Stupid Love, where you have Ryan Gosling's character completely 254 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: just rippling with muscle and he is not sporting a beard. 255 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,080 Speaker 1: He's told there's not a single chest here or back 256 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: here insight. And it's just that emblem of this what's 257 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: called sanitized ideal of masculinity, where what is hot and 258 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,320 Speaker 1: sexy for a man is a lot of rippling muscles 259 00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: and no hair, which is a far cry from you know, 260 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: if you think about back in the day of like 261 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:56,280 Speaker 1: Burt Reynolds lying on the bearskin run. Yes, and we'll 262 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: talk more about men's body hair or increasingly the thereof 263 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: when we come right back from a quick break and 264 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: now back to the show. So before we left you, 265 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: we were discussing I'm sorry, what was it? Just Ryan 266 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: Gosling's rippling body, That's what we were discussing. And Steve 267 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: Curl's chest here. Okay, but like I said, Ryan Gosling's 268 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:23,600 Speaker 1: rippling hairless body. Um, but Ryan Gosling is far from 269 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: the only dude to go hairless. I mean way back 270 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:31,520 Speaker 1: in the day. If we're talking ancient Egyptians, they put 271 00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,960 Speaker 1: a put a premium on men being hairless and ripley 272 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: as well. And this is coming from Brown University psychologist 273 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: Michael Burrows in his two thousand nine dissertation. He he 274 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: talks about men hair removal, gender ideals, all this kind 275 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,200 Speaker 1: of stuff, and so he tells us that it is 276 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: definitely not a new thing for men to want to 277 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: remove or reduce their body hair, and so ancient Egyptian men, 278 00:16:55,840 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: he says would often turn to pumice stones, using pumice 279 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: to owns or like crude raisors to remove their body hair. 280 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 1: But somewhere in there, the hairless norm falls out of 281 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 1: favor for men. I'm assuming around the time that Burt 282 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 1: Reynolds really comes up. Burt Reynolds just exploded the whole 283 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,760 Speaker 1: like hairless thing, and he was like, no, I'm here, 284 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: here my chest hair. He came actually out of the 285 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: womb with that mustache, did he? And Tom selleck Man, 286 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: My mother loves her some Tom selleck um. And so 287 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: basically since then, it's been considered normal only for women 288 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,800 Speaker 1: to be hairless. Thank you advertising, thank you cultural norms. 289 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: So today, like you said, it's quite common for men 290 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,640 Speaker 1: to want to reduce their body hair. And um. So, 291 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,000 Speaker 1: Michael Burrows did this research on specifically undergraduate men. That's 292 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 1: important to pay attention to that population because I think 293 00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:51,159 Speaker 1: it is sort of a generational shift that we're seeing. 294 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: And he found that eighty point nine percent of the 295 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: guys that he talked to depolite take off some kind 296 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 1: of hair, not includeing facial hair. And in his research 297 00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: he focused also a lot on the maintenance of pubic 298 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: hair and found, oh, actually a lot of guys are 299 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:14,439 Speaker 1: also trimming their pubic hair. They're trimming their underarm hair. Um, 300 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: because previously you had a couple of studies here and there, 301 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 1: like in seven there was this one study that these 302 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,280 Speaker 1: sites that explores attitudes about men's body hair, but the 303 00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 1: researchers did nothing to look at you know, how many 304 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,280 Speaker 1: of them actually remove it because it was such a 305 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: norm at the time, and really up until Burrows's research, 306 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 1: the only time you see, um, any kind of acknowledgement 307 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: of systematic male body hair removal would have been with 308 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: athletic groups like guys, you know, like bikers who might 309 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: recyclists i should say, who shave their legs, or swimmers 310 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: who shave their bodies. There might be biker gangs with 311 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,600 Speaker 1: guys who shave theirs. That's it's a niche, but I'm 312 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,239 Speaker 1: sure it exists. Yeah, well yeah, And he found in 313 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,679 Speaker 1: his study talk specifically about manscaping the nether regions. He 314 00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: found that men reported trimming groin hair, whereas forty one 315 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,040 Speaker 1: reported actually removing it all together. There was also this 316 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,639 Speaker 1: interesting correlation that he found, and this was for both 317 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: women and men with the amount of body hair in 318 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: a certain you know, physical area, and dissatisfaction with that 319 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,760 Speaker 1: body part. So he found that the more hair, for instance, 320 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: you have that grows on groin chest arms, the less 321 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: people tended to say that they liked their groin chest arms. Interesting. Yeah, 322 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: I wonder how dissatisfied the ancient Egyptians were that they 323 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: had to use pumice stones to get rid of it, 324 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: get it all? How how much would that hurt? Though? 325 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: A lot? But okay, So speaking of the groin area, 326 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean men are men are out there getting bikini 327 00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: waxes too. It's not just it's not just the ladies. Um. 328 00:19:57,760 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: The New York Times talked to so of role people 329 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:04,160 Speaker 1: at various spas and things, and Mike and Durski, who's 330 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: the president of Bliss Spa, and he says, what we're 331 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: finding is it's everybody. It's the gay community, it's the 332 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:13,320 Speaker 1: straight community. It's very conservative guys, it's liberal guys. He 333 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: talks about how it's basically all different age groups and backgrounds, 334 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:18,560 Speaker 1: and then it's much much bigger than we ever thought. 335 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: And they The New York Times talked to one guy 336 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,760 Speaker 1: who said, look, if I have that expectation of somebody 337 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,280 Speaker 1: else I would probably want to return the favor. Well, 338 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: I have a feeling that that kind of message, at 339 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:33,480 Speaker 1: least according to men at the guys who work at 340 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,840 Speaker 1: these spas, who are doling out these bikini waxes, that 341 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 1: message might not just be, you know, kind of of 342 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: their own volitions. A lot of times, at least for 343 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,719 Speaker 1: stray guys who go in for waxes, it starts out 344 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: with a wife or a girlfriend saying, hey, if I 345 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: have to clean up, let's talk about your back here. 346 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: And then they come back and they become return customers 347 00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: because apairly they really like it, and they enjoy it, 348 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 1: and they probably get a lot of positive affirmation and 349 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:07,880 Speaker 1: reinforcement from said wife our girlfriend. Um, Whereas I think 350 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: maybe with the gay community, it's just more it is 351 00:21:11,480 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: more of a norm, it's a little bit more expected. Um. Well, 352 00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: going back to Burrows, because he is like the most 353 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:24,359 Speaker 1: recent body hair expert, I would say he talks about 354 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,359 Speaker 1: a lot of the reasons behind this. It is a 355 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:30,440 Speaker 1: lot of encouragement from partners, it is societal pressure through 356 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: advertising and through magazine covers of ripley hairless bodies. But 357 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:38,080 Speaker 1: one thing he also found was cleanliness is is a 358 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,600 Speaker 1: huge push. A lot of people, both men and women, 359 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: will cite the desire for cleanliness in both first going 360 00:21:45,320 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: to get waxes and and things like that and then 361 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: maintaining them. They feel like they're cleaner being hairless. Yeah, 362 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:55,400 Speaker 1: and I think that ties into the sexuality aspect of this. 363 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: I know that if you look at research on women 364 00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: and pubic hair waxing, that cleanliness is often sided of. Yeah. 365 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: I mean there's a whole thing of you know, wanting 366 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: to feel sexier and assuming that less hair down there 367 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,080 Speaker 1: will make you feel sexier. But it's also tied to 368 00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:16,439 Speaker 1: this cleanliness thing that He also ties it to a 369 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: desire to look more muscular, uh, to make genitals look bigger, 370 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,440 Speaker 1: just to kind of fit in with some mainstream ideal 371 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:27,800 Speaker 1: of what's sexy. And Burrows does site from his various 372 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 1: surveys that a lot of people, a lot of men 373 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: are focused on sex appeal and youthfulness. So there's there's 374 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: all these interesting like people are striving to look younger, sexy, 375 00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: or more muscular basically shiny. I don't know somehow shiny 376 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: hairlessness equates to to youth I guess yeah, And I 377 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,640 Speaker 1: mean I do think that media messages in the same 378 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,879 Speaker 1: way that it influences women's body images so often in 379 00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: our hairless ideal UM. Burrows also talks about how he 380 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,920 Speaker 1: says voting some magazine publishers, for example, they'll say there 381 00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: hasn't been a magazine cover that has displayed a man 382 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,800 Speaker 1: with chest hair intend of fifteen years. And all of 383 00:23:09,840 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: these razor companies are also catering to this sanitized ideal 384 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: with recent introductions of all of these new kinds of 385 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: razors that are specifically designed to trim body here. So 386 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:26,000 Speaker 1: they're getting educated in the same way the razor companies 387 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 1: educated women a hundred years ago to remove everything. Now 388 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: we're telling guys back here is just gross. Well. Another 389 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: group that Burrows has looked at extensively is bodybuilders, because 390 00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: you know, there's been a lot of studies on bodybuilders 391 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: body dysmorphia, UM, and sort of this masculine ideal that 392 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,360 Speaker 1: a lot of body builders tend to have body dysmorphia 393 00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: so they don't think they're as big as they are, 394 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,760 Speaker 1: but also this sort of idea that maybe women want 395 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 1: men who are more muscular than they really do. UM. 396 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:00,719 Speaker 1: But so Burrows in a two thousand five study found 397 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: that six percent of the male participants questioned said that 398 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,600 Speaker 1: it would disturb them if they were hypothetically unable to 399 00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: remove their body hair. An additional eighteen percent rated their 400 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,280 Speaker 1: anxiety to be in the moderate to extreme range when 401 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: asked how they would feel if they could not shave 402 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 1: or trim their body hair for a few weeks. So 403 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: that's actual anxiety that's actually tied into like a conscious 404 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: mental thing that you're like, I am not gonna look 405 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:29,479 Speaker 1: as good. I'm gonna look terrible if I don't get 406 00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: rid of this body hair. I have a guy friend 407 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: who he's kind of eased up in more recent years, 408 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: but especially when he was in his early in mid twenties, 409 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,360 Speaker 1: he shaved his chest every summer. He was so embarrassed 410 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: of his chest hair, even though it was it was 411 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: always baffling to me because I thought that chest hair 412 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:52,280 Speaker 1: was like this manly thing, like I thought guys would 413 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: like chest hair. UM. And I also briefly dated a 414 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,399 Speaker 1: guy who um too early I was say into dating, 415 00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: informed me jokingly but not jokingly, that when summer rolls around, 416 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: he you know, shaves his back. And he asked me 417 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 1: if I would ever shave his back for him, and 418 00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:15,280 Speaker 1: I just I don't even know what I said, um, 419 00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:18,119 Speaker 1: because I feel like you could pay people for that. Yeah, 420 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: but it was just so odd to me. I was like, well, 421 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: you have back hair now, I mean, I just don't. 422 00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I get it, like I 423 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: can understand. Um. I think it's just it's interesting to 424 00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:34,399 Speaker 1: see this kind of male anxiety really coming to the 425 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,199 Speaker 1: forefront in an ironic way in this era of beard. 426 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,400 Speaker 1: You know what's going on with that. It's like one 427 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 1: there's one specific type of hair on a man that 428 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: is okay and sexy, and apparently that is a beard, 429 00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:53,080 Speaker 1: and everything else just hairless. Yeah, it's kind of a 430 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 1: funny image, just like a shiny hairless man with just 431 00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 1: so much facial massive beard, a Kendall wearing a giant beard. Interesting. 432 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: But the thing about I guess social pressures, whether it's 433 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:11,680 Speaker 1: from advertisers and marketers or magazines, media, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. 434 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,359 Speaker 1: Burrows points out, Look, you know, men have the option 435 00:26:15,400 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: to stop. That's very true. It's okay. You might you might, 436 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,720 Speaker 1: you know, be dating a guy who is shaving his chest, 437 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,400 Speaker 1: waxing his back, you know, trimming this and that, but 438 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,600 Speaker 1: it is socially acceptable for him to still have that 439 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 1: hair at the end of the day. Whereas with women, 440 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: like we talked about a second ago, like it's it's 441 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 1: considered almost radical if you support body hair. Oh my gosh, 442 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: yeah if you. I mean, how many jokes are made about, 443 00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: you know, women loving the wintertime because no one's going 444 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: to see our legs, so we don't have to shave. 445 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: But even then it's just like, oh, but if someone 446 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: does see our leg hair, then God forbid, will be 447 00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:58,359 Speaker 1: cast out, will be cast out. But one thing that 448 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: is worth wondering about. So a hun years ago, this all, 449 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,359 Speaker 1: all of this conversation was happening about women, women getting 450 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 1: rid of body hair because of advertising creating this demand 451 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 1: for hairlessness basically or or create breeding insecurity because of it. Well, 452 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: now now that you have the same thing going on 453 00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:17,640 Speaker 1: with men and manscaping and have your beard but don't 454 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 1: have your chest hair or don't have any hair in 455 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:24,720 Speaker 1: your groin. Um, there's all these products that are coming out, Gillette, Braun, 456 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,040 Speaker 1: they all have these razors that are marketed specifically as 457 00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:32,960 Speaker 1: manscaping razors. So one thing that burrows was wondering too, 458 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: is that, you know, are are we seeing maybe a 459 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: permanent shift for men the way we had a permanent 460 00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: shift for women when it comes to removing body hair, right, 461 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: Because I don't think we will ever see a full 462 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: shift away from women being expected to remove body here. 463 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: Although there have been you know, articles talking about how 464 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: bikini waxing is, or at least Brazilians removing everything in 465 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: the pubic area is not as demanded now for women. 466 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 1: So I don't know. I think we're gonna see shifts 467 00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 1: back and forth with that. But for men, I wouldn't 468 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: be surprised if this is the beginning of what boys 469 00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 1: today will assume is just fact when they you know, 470 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,400 Speaker 1: as they grow up and as they start sprouting body hair. 471 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,040 Speaker 1: I mean, I have young nephews, and I'm I'm sure 472 00:28:24,119 --> 00:28:26,120 Speaker 1: that they're like thinking about all these things because they're 473 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,359 Speaker 1: sitting around watching television seeing commercials of guys you know, 474 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: taking off all this stuff, and and men with hair 475 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:37,800 Speaker 1: being considered gross on sexy punchlines like Steve Carrell in 476 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: Forty Year Old Virgin. Yeah exactly, because that's all that's 477 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,719 Speaker 1: all laugh ha ha, funny wink wink. But it's like 478 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: it's still now your gross, Like that's still the message. No, 479 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 1: this is gross. This is a guy who women don't 480 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 1: have sex with because he has hair. And I will 481 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: say at least for at the very least for women. Uh, 482 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,520 Speaker 1: it kind of just makes sense of what you're the rules. 483 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,440 Speaker 1: I don't want to say makes sense, but the rules 484 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: are very straightforward where it's like, just remove everything and 485 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: take all of it, get slightly hair off. But the 486 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: now now, like the prescriptions for what men should in 487 00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: quotes look like is have hair in some places a 488 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: little bit, not too much, as long as it's on 489 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: not on the back, then nothing at all, you know 490 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: what I mean. It's very site specific, and I think 491 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: it also maybe says some interesting things about where we 492 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: are with twenty one century masculinity. It's sort of in 493 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: a similar space of like be masculine, not too much, 494 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,560 Speaker 1: only in certain spaces. And I don't know, I'm so 495 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,320 Speaker 1: curious to hear from guy listeners on this one. Yeah, 496 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 1: guy listeners, do you feel pressured to remove your body 497 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: hair or are you defiantly harry or do you just 498 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: not care? Yeah? And if you're a guy who's not harry, 499 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: because I think there's still an insecurity for men who can, 500 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: you know, grow a beard or might not have a 501 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 1: lot of chest hair. I think there's also still, you know, 502 00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: insecures on their end of not appearing manly enough. So 503 00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:13,000 Speaker 1: I don't know, Guys, what do you think about this? 504 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: Are we thinking about it more than you're thinking about it? 505 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: Is the New York Times thinking about it more than 506 00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: you're thinking about it? The answer is yes, regardless. And 507 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: if you have impressive facial hair and you want to 508 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: send us a picture of your beard, you know we 509 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:29,320 Speaker 1: love beards, so we'll we'll accept those as well. We 510 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: really want all of your thoughts on male body hair. 511 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,440 Speaker 1: Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can 512 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 1: send your letters, and you can also tweet us at 513 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast or send us a message on Facebook, 514 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: and we have a couple of messages to share with 515 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: you right now. So I have an email here from 516 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: Kelly in response to our episode on revenge porn, and 517 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,200 Speaker 1: she said, I listened to your podcast about revenge porn, 518 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,240 Speaker 1: and while I had heard about it before, iting a 519 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,360 Speaker 1: bell of more recent events. I'm a reporter at a 520 00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: newspaper in Utah and remember seeing legislation to criminalize it. 521 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: I looked it up and it passed both the House 522 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:13,960 Speaker 1: and the Senate and is awaiting Governor Herbert's signature. While 523 00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: I would never send pics of myself, I'm so glad 524 00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: Utah is being forward thinking about this matter. Love your podcast, 525 00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: especially when you use the term lady bits. So thanks, Kelly, 526 00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:29,800 Speaker 1: and that is good to know about Utah passing that legislation. 527 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: And hey, also Utah legalizing same sex marriage. Utah, what's 528 00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:39,120 Speaker 1: up really moving forward? Okay, Well, speaking of lady things, 529 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,280 Speaker 1: I have an email here from Chris. She says, regarding 530 00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: your March eleventh episode about the words lady and ladies. 531 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: When listening to you talk about the need for a 532 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,959 Speaker 1: word to refer to a group of women, I couldn't 533 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: help but think that there is already a good word 534 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: for this in the South. Y'all. Y'all is a gender 535 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,160 Speaker 1: neutral collective pronoun that should serve nicely informal situation. The 536 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: speaker could revert to the origins of the word and say, 537 00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:06,720 Speaker 1: you all examples, what are y'all up to tonight? Or 538 00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,080 Speaker 1: what are you all doing for your next presentation? What 539 00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 1: do you think should we broaden and promote this Southern archaism. 540 00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,680 Speaker 1: I am totally pro y'all. I'm pro y'all. I say 541 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: you all the time. And it confuses my cousins from 542 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: up north though, because they don't think I really have 543 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: an accent. But then I'll throw a y'all in there 544 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: because I can't not. I always say it. Yeah. I 545 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: think it's handy for that specific reason. It's all encompassing, 546 00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: its gender neutral, and it just rolls off the tongue 547 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 1: really really nicely. It does, It sure does. So. Thanks 548 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 1: to all y'all who have written in mom Stuff at 549 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 1: Discovery dot com is where you can send us your 550 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 1: letters and for links to all of our other social 551 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: media contacts, podcast blogs, and videos. There's one place to go. 552 00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: It's Stuff Mom Never Told You dot com For more 553 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: on this and thousands of other topics. Does it How 554 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: stuff works dot com Three