WEBVTT - Logan Ury: #1 Dating Mistake That Leads to the Wrong Relationship (Use THIS Compatibility Test Before You Get Attached) 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.200 The biggest lie that we've been sold in love is 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.760 this idea of the spark. We interpret it as chemistry 0:00:06.120 --> 0:00:11.360 when it's actually anxiety. Only eleven percent of people experience love. 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.280 At first sight, So you don't believe in the one. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.200 I don't believe in the one. We've become so obsessed 0:00:17.239 --> 0:00:20.880 with finding the perfect person instead of building the perfect relationship. 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.919 Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you 0:00:26.000 --> 0:00:29.400 come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. This 0:00:29.760 --> 0:00:34.400 might be the most requested dating episode we've ever done 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:37.720 because so many of you keep asking the same question, 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.600 why do I keep chasing the wrong person? Why can't 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.200 I find the right person? Today we're joined by best 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.760 selling author and Hina's Director of Relationship Science, Logan Yuri. 0:00:50.159 --> 0:00:53.800 Logan challenges one of dating's biggest myths. What does the 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.920 spark really mean? And is it actually leading you in 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.160 the wrong direction? If you're tired of confusing chemistry with compatibility, 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:03.880 I don't want you to miss this episode. Please welcome 0:01:03.880 --> 0:01:07.520 to On Purpose Logan Uri Logan, Uri, Welcome to On Purpose. 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:08.320 Thank you for being here. 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:09.880 Yeah, I'm so happy to be here. 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:11.840 It's so great to have you I've been wanting to 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:13.960 have you in this seat for so long. You've been 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:15.920 such a requested guest for us. Thank you. 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.000 I'm so excited for this conversation, so I. 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:19.800 Want to dive right in. Let's do it. My first 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:23.080 question is what is the biggest mistake that people are 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:24.319 making and dating right now? 0:01:24.880 --> 0:01:28.080 One of the biggest mistakes I see people making is 0:01:28.160 --> 0:01:33.759 really having unrealistic expectations around relationships, around dating, around their 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.720 partner and around themselves. And so through my coaching, I've 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:40.600 categorized this into a framework that I call the three 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:44.240 dating tendencies. And I know you took the quiz on this, 0:01:44.480 --> 0:01:46.720 so I'm excited to see your results of the quiz, 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:49.480 but just to walk you through it. So, the first 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:53.320 hype is the romanticizer. And the romanticizer I think a 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:55.960 lot of people out there will relate to this. They 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.920 are worried about finding their soulmate and they believe there's 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.880 one person out there for everyone and I'll know it 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:04.880 when I see it. And so this person is very 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.840 very focused on the we met and their partner looking 0:02:08.840 --> 0:02:14.320 the way they expect. And the second type is the maximizer, 0:02:14.520 --> 0:02:18.160 and the maximizer has unrealistic expectations of their partner, and 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:20.440 so you know you're a maximizer if you say things 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.280 like I just want to keep searching, or I found 0:02:23.280 --> 0:02:25.400 someone great, but I want to find someone even better. 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:27.840 And this is the person who's never satisfied. They always 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.640 wonder what else is out there, the sort of the 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.280 grass is greener person. And the third type is the hesitator, 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:38.280 and the hesitator has unrealistic expectations of themselves. And so 0:02:38.360 --> 0:02:41.560 the hesitator says things like I'll be ready to date 0:02:41.720 --> 0:02:44.200 when when I lose five pounds, when I get a 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.600 better job, when I finally clean up my apartment, and 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.280 so there's a sense within them that they're not datable 0:02:49.600 --> 0:02:51.840 and that they need to become a different person before 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:54.200 they're going to put themselves out there because no one 0:02:54.240 --> 0:02:57.120 would fall for them with who they are right now. 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.320 So you don't believe in the one. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:00.560 I don't believe than the one. 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:00.720 No. 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:02.840 I feel like there's so many great people who you 0:03:02.880 --> 0:03:06.680 could make a life with, and that it's really interesting 0:03:06.720 --> 0:03:09.600 because I think, especially for the maximizer type, there's almost 0:03:09.639 --> 0:03:13.200 this premise of it's ninety five percent who you choose 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.200 and five percent the effort you put in. And I 0:03:16.240 --> 0:03:18.880 don't have exact numbers on this, but my framework would 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:21.720 be more like, it's twenty five percent who you choose 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:25.240 and seventy five percent the effort you put in. And instead, 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.840 in our society we've come so obsessed with like finding 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.320 the perfect person instead of building the perfect relationship. 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:33.840 I actually love that approach, and I find that so 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.680 fascinating because we play so much emphasis not even on 0:03:37.840 --> 0:03:41.920 choosing the right person, but finding the right person believing 0:03:41.960 --> 0:03:44.560 that they exist, rather than thinking, Okay, I've got to 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:46.760 choose someone who hopefully I'll have a better chance with 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:48.839 because they're choosing me too, and we're going to work 0:03:48.840 --> 0:03:52.320 on it together. And that work part being your emphasis 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:55.160 feels like the right place to place the priority with 0:03:55.320 --> 0:04:01.520 your three. I love the romanticizer, the hesitator, and the maximize. Ultimately, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:05.240 are we trying to just improve? I saw your email 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:07.680 that came through with my assessment, which I thought was great, 0:04:07.960 --> 0:04:10.520 and he gave me really actionable tips to say, here 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:12.280 is how to stop being X. He is how to 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.760 improve this area of your life. What are we trying 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:16.880 to get to because we're ultimately one of these three? 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:18.039 What are we trying to be. 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:21.719 Yeah, that's a great, great question. So the point of 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:25.120 the three dating tendencies is to understand that you probably 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.200 have dating blind spots. So these are patterns of behavior 0:04:28.279 --> 0:04:30.279 or ways of thinking that are holding you back from 0:04:30.279 --> 0:04:32.880 finding love but that you can't identify on your own 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:35.600 and in my coaching, and I'm sure you've felt this too, 0:04:36.000 --> 0:04:38.400 people often come in and they're like, my biggest issue 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:41.159 is what I look like, or my biggest issue is 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:44.080 that I work too much, And almost one hundred percent 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.280 of the time that's not what their biggest issue is. 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.600 Because if they knew what their biggest issue was, they 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.000 could fix it. But a lot of times it's something 0:04:51.000 --> 0:04:53.600 else that they don't realize. And so the point of 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.839 knowing your dating tendency is to say something like, Okay, 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.920 I'm a maximizer, I'm always looking for the next best. 0:05:00.560 --> 0:05:03.440 I'm actually going to switch and become what I call 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.000 a satisfy sir, which I can get into and really 0:05:06.120 --> 0:05:08.679 understand that if I want to move to the next level, 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:10.880 if I want to go from the guy who dates 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.400 someone for three months and then always tries to trade up, 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.520 but I really want to get married and have kids. 0:05:15.839 --> 0:05:19.159 I have to overcome this tendency in order to move 0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:21.719 to the next stage, or else I'll keep repeating this 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:22.560 for years to come. 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:26.039 Yeah, that's fascinating that we're not aware of the thing 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.560 that's blocking us. And usually it's some distraction that we've 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.440 imagined up and said, oh, it's because I'm never available. 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:34.840 And what you're saying is this actually helps us get 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:37.120 to the root of where it comes from and why 0:05:37.160 --> 0:05:38.960 it exists in the first place. Yeah. 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.400 And so my background is in behavioral science, which is 0:05:41.400 --> 0:05:43.960 the study of how people make decisions. And this is 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.880 just what fascinates me about the world is so often 0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:50.040 we're not making decisions in a conscious way. We are 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.400 really following these invisible scripts. And so the point of 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.080 my work and of the three dating tendencies is to say, 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:59.359 let's make the invisible visible and then we can identify 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:01.960 the problem, make a plan, and then you can show 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:03.599 up differently and get different results. 0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:06.880 Yeah. Absolutely, I'll share my results in a second. I 0:06:06.880 --> 0:06:08.440 want to ask you a couple more things about that 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.400 before we get there, because your works in data. I 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:14.080 wanted to ask you what data point have you come across. 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.080 I feel like there's so much great research now about 0:06:16.080 --> 0:06:19.000 love and dating and matching. It's better than it's ever 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:21.279 been before. We have more access. I want to share 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.520 a few stats with you in a second. But what 0:06:23.600 --> 0:06:25.960 would you say has been the thing that has shocked 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:27.560 you the most? The data point that you swa on 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.760 you went, I cannot believe that's true. 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.279 One data point that shocked me recently and actually made 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:36.400 me happy is I saw through some research that we 0:06:36.440 --> 0:06:39.560 did at HINGE that, well, I'll start by saying, I 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.480 think people think that gen Z's really nihilistic, they love 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:45.919 dark humor, they're really pragmatic, and so I would have 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.800 guessed that gen Z was not romantic at all, that 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.279 they would just be like, okay, like nothing else in 0:06:51.320 --> 0:06:53.719 the world is working out. I was born into this 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:56.000 really tough moment in history, and I would think that 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.599 they wouldn't be romantic. But what we saw in our 0:06:58.680 --> 0:07:02.120 data at HINGE is that is actually thirty percent more 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:05.080 likely than millennials to believe in the idea of a soulmate, 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.760 and they're thirty nine percent more likely than millennials to 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:14.080 identify as someone who's romantic or idealistic about romance. And 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:16.720 so I think that we should not cut this generation 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.800 short and think, oh, they're not interested in romance. They 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:23.520 really are. They really are yearning for romance, even to 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:25.520 the point of, you know, believing in a soulmate. W 0:07:25.680 --> 0:07:29.040 I said, I don't, but there's so much holding them back. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.120 And I know we'll get into it in this conversation, 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.960 but really, this fear of rejection and fear of embarrassment, 0:07:35.160 --> 0:07:38.520 fear of cringe, and so this data point of gen 0:07:38.640 --> 0:07:41.120 Z actually being quite romantic has really stuck out to me. 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.600 Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that, like you said, even though 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:46.760 you don't believe in a soulmate, the fact that this 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.440 whole generation does, or a lot of the generation does. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.000 It elds points to a belief in love and a 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.520 value in love, and we just need to figure out 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:57.160 what that is. I wanted to ask you about a 0:07:57.160 --> 0:07:59.360 couple of statistics that I pulled out. Great let's do 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:02.040 in my mind that I think these speak to what 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.240 we're struggling with in the dating landscape right now, and 0:08:04.280 --> 0:08:05.840 I wanted to share some, so we'll go through one 0:08:05.880 --> 0:08:07.560 at a time, and I'd love to get your reaction 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:10.520 to it. This stat says fifty three percent of singles 0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.120 reported dating burnout, And I think dating burnout is what 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.160 we're seeing all across the board. When you see that, 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.160 talk to me about the behavioral science. Talk to me 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:22.000 about the reasoning why we're experiencing dating burnout? What is it? 0:08:22.080 --> 0:08:24.720 Because we're all thinking it might be the apps, it 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.240 that there's no good people out there left anymore, or 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:30.080 the great people are taken. What is actually happening? What 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:30.720 are you seeing? 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:33.199 When I hear that, I feel so sad, Like they 0:08:33.200 --> 0:08:35.600 can't remember the last time they went out on a date. 0:08:35.800 --> 0:08:38.320 I feel like we're just sort of missing the plot here. 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:41.360 It's like part of being young is dating and meeting 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.640 new people and figuring out who you are. And it's 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.199 almost like dating has become a job, and then people 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:48.000 feel like they need to take a break from it, 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:50.959 and so at HINGE. One of the biggest data points 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:54.000 that we've seen around burnout is that something that causes 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:57.720 it is lack of responsiveness. So I send you a message, 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.000 we're going back and forth, and then you just stop response, 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:02.240 and then it makes me feel like, what did I 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.520 do wrong? Why are you rejecting me? Why doesn't anyone 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:07.080 want to be with me? And I sort of spiral 0:09:07.200 --> 0:09:08.840 and after a while you just need to take a 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.760 break from that feeling. And so part of it is 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:14.320 just I think in dating culture right now, we're really 0:09:14.360 --> 0:09:17.199 taking each other for granted, and there's a sense of 0:09:17.280 --> 0:09:19.960 like if I disappoint you, well, there's someone else waiting 0:09:20.040 --> 0:09:25.439 for me. And also there's no context, like if your 0:09:25.679 --> 0:09:29.040 sister in law introduced us, then you would know that 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:31.640 if you did something not so nice to me, someone 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:33.920 would be hearing about it. But I think we are 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:36.520 lacking some of that context right now, and we're just 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:38.960 not treating each other with as much with as much 0:09:38.960 --> 0:09:40.120 integrity as we should be. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.880 Yeah, I think the accountability piece is huge. What you're 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.080 just saying right now that if we introduced to a 0:09:45.120 --> 0:09:47.680 friend or a family member, you're going to have someone 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:49.360 to answer to us to why it didn't work out. 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:51.920 But the challenge about that is, as you said, is 0:09:52.080 --> 0:09:55.920 you can't control that, like you can't control someone being responsive, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.120 and so it becomes harder and harder to put yourself 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:00.880 out there and feel like, oh, I I thought someone 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.280 told me last week, Oh I'd scheduled a date. We've 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:06.040 been talking for three days straight and then all of 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:07.760 a sudden, even though we set a date in place 0:10:07.760 --> 0:10:10.240 in time when I text to confirm the person who's 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.640 ghosted me, and it's like, I have no idea what 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.280 went wrong, and so there's a sense of wanting everyone 0:10:16.320 --> 0:10:18.040 to be more confident, but there's also a sense of 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:19.360 like how much can we take? 0:10:19.640 --> 0:10:22.800 I totally agree. And it's interesting because I'm married, you're married. 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.000 I've been with my husband for a long time. We 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.720 in a way are a bit removed from rejection. But 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:29.439 I have a two year old and I was talking 0:10:29.480 --> 0:10:31.760 to different families about who we would do a nanny 0:10:31.800 --> 0:10:35.120 share with, and this woman basically wrote me like a 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.319 breakup text, essentially being like, we don't want to move 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:40.640 forward doing a nanny share with you. And I was hysterical. 0:10:40.720 --> 0:10:42.720 And I know that sounds crazy, but it was like 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.560 the first time that I'd really felt that rejection in 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.760 a while, of someone like meeting you, getting to know you, 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:51.840 and saying no, I don't want to quote unquote be 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.720 with you. And I think sometimes married people forget how 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:57.880 painful that rejection is, and so I just want to 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.520 validate that feeling where yeah, dating really is hard. You're 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.319 putting yourself out there and you're saying this is who 0:11:03.320 --> 0:11:05.920 I am, and then someone says yes or no, I 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:06.640 want to be with you. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.840 Looking for love is almost like it's a bit harder 0:11:09.880 --> 0:11:13.120 than that because it involves two people and you feeling 0:11:13.160 --> 0:11:15.280 like I have to convince this other person that I'm worthy. 0:11:15.559 --> 0:11:17.560 I work with men and women, but a lot of 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:20.680 the women are in there, let's say mid thirties to 0:11:20.760 --> 0:11:23.760 mid forties, and they're kind of wondering like did I 0:11:23.800 --> 0:11:26.440 miss the boat? And there's a sense of if I 0:11:26.480 --> 0:11:28.640 wanted to run a marathon, I know how to train 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:31.600 for it. If I wanted to get a promotion, I 0:11:31.600 --> 0:11:33.360 could just put a lot of effort in, and that 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:36.560 dating is this uniquely hard thing because you can't just 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.640 put effort in and get results. Someone else has to 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:42.000 choose you as well. I think that's one of the 0:11:42.040 --> 0:11:45.360 reasons it's uniquely challenging is because it's outside of your 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:46.800 individual effort and control. 0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:49.280 Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's sort of thinging that work 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.720 wise as well. There is a sense of I can 0:11:51.720 --> 0:11:54.559 put in more effort and I can not control the outcome, 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.040 but I can impact it, hopefully a bit more closely. 0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.320 And my husband and I talk about this all the time, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:02.880 because work is very seductive. If I have more input, 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.920 then I'll get more output, and you sort of know 0:12:06.200 --> 0:12:08.640 what the path is and you can kind of say, like, well, 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:10.680 if I crush work, then I'll get some promotion, then 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:13.520 I'll make more money. Like dating just isn't the same thing. 0:12:13.600 --> 0:12:16.440 There's not like a guarantee reward if you put effort in. 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:19.120 And so I do often say to people that I 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:23.000 work with, like, don't fall for the seductiveness of work, 0:12:23.320 --> 0:12:26.720 because yes, it's easily measurable and it can make you 0:12:26.800 --> 0:12:30.760 feel good when you get those promotions or that affirmation, 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.720 but also remember that you should put effort into love too. 0:12:34.800 --> 0:12:36.760 I don't really think it works when you're just like okay, 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.640 Like I'm just going to spend my twenties on work 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.280 and then in my thirties I'll start dating, because you'll 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:45.000 probably be behind. You haven't developed the skills that you 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:46.880 need to really be a great dat So. 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.680 If efforts the catalyst in work, what's the catalyst in love. 0:12:51.000 --> 0:12:53.000 I do think you need a lot of effort in love. 0:12:53.120 --> 0:12:55.880 It's just that it's not as guaranteed, like I think 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.400 in hustle culture, all of this work environment that you've 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.360 been seeing, let's for the last ten years, like productivity 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.840 and workmaxing and this and that. I think people just 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.320 fall into it because it feels like you know what 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.880 the result will be. So it's more that it's less 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.160 about work as effort and love isn't and it's more 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.680 that work feels like some guaranteed results. And I remember 0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.199 about a year ago, I was working on a project 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:22.320 and I was talking to single daters in their mid twenties. 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.200 I talked to this guy, like super handsome, fun guy, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.040 like definitely the type of person I would have been 0:13:27.120 --> 0:13:29.520 drawn to when I was in my twenties. And he 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:31.920 was like, yeah, why would I go on a date 0:13:31.960 --> 0:13:34.640 that could potentially go nowhere when I could just be 0:13:34.720 --> 0:13:37.640 at home and edit a YouTube video? And I was 0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.440 like what, Like it blew my mind, Like I was 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:41.679 just I just didn't understand. And he was like, well, 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.839 if I edit the YouTube video, like I know, I'll 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.320 get this many views and I'll improve in this way, 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.760 whereas the date has no guarantee. I think that's sort 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:51.840 of one of the things that I'm seeing right now 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.040 is that people are struggling with dating because it is 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.800 a lot of unknown whereas work seems like more of 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:00.800 an known quantity. 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.920 I completely agree with you. How do we then train 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.319 the human mind to be okay with investing in an 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.679 area that has very little chance of return, but if 0:14:10.720 --> 0:14:13.880 you found the return, it's like striking gold and life changing. 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.600 How do you discipline yourself to put an effort in 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:19.760 an area which, as you're saying, is uncertain. I'm glad we're. 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:21.160 Talking about this because this is definitely the thing that 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.160 I've been obsessed with lately. So from a coaching perspective, 0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.680 step one is just to be really, really clear on 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.000 your goal. And that's why I was so happy to 0:14:29.080 --> 0:14:32.120 see that, despite what I might have thought, gen Z 0:14:32.280 --> 0:14:35.680 really is romantic and excited about finding someone. And so 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.840 I think you have to be clear on your goal 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:40.840 in order to overcome a bunch of hurdles and discomfort 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:44.640 to get there. And the second thing is what we're 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:49.080 calling chalant dating. So everyone knows what nonchalant means. It 0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:51.640 means you act attached, you pretend that you don't care, 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:54.800 and it's really this battle of who can care less. 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:55.840 And I feel like. 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:59.560 Dating has been in this area for a while now. 0:14:59.640 --> 0:15:01.640 Let's say like at least a decade and I just 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.240 hear this all the time. Oh, he waited five hours 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.600 to text me back, so I'm going to wait six hours. 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:09.680 And when I dug into why this is happening, I 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:11.880 feel like a lot of it is because of this 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:15.880 surveillance culture that we have now, where it used to 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:18.080 be that if you sent someone a text message and 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.920 it was a little embarrassing or you know, didn't quite 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.840 hit the mark, like it disappeared, But now it gets 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.160 screenshotted and sent to the group chat, or worse, it 0:15:27.200 --> 0:15:30.760 makes it onto Instagram or TikTok or someone's doing a 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:33.120 story time about it. And so I feel like we 0:15:33.240 --> 0:15:36.200 just live in a society where it's a lot harder 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.240 to fail because if you fail, it feels like it's 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:42.240 forever and it's shared with the world. And so what 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.200 I'm seeing is that a generation that is afraid to 0:15:45.280 --> 0:15:48.440 embarrass themselves. For them it's like, the worst thing you 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.200 can be is sincere. The worst thing you can do 0:15:51.280 --> 0:15:55.560 is be cringe. And the truth is that most things 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.840 in life worth having you have to take a risk for. 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:01.560 I'm sure that you don't have this job because you 0:16:01.640 --> 0:16:03.840 just sat back and said, Okay, well, if a recruiter 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:05.520 reaches out to me, I'll take that job. It's like 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.560 you literally created your dream job and your dream life 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.280 by taking risks. And I have found with gen Z 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.520 that they's just such a fear of taking risks. And 0:16:15.560 --> 0:16:18.440 we're finding this in the Hinge data as well. And 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:23.800 so gen Z is much less likely than millennials to 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:26.320 be willing to have a deep conversation on the first date. 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:28.960 They are much more likely to say that they have 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.960 a fear of being too much. And so you have 0:16:32.080 --> 0:16:36.720 this generation that's afraid of rejection, afraid of trying, afraid 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:42.680 of effort. And then miraculously, this term came around chalant dating, 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:45.320 where people are like, you know what, I'm tired of that, 0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:47.600 I'm tired of playing games, I'm tired of the battle 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:50.560 who can care less? And now we're really seeing that 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.720 term has skyrocketed. So we've seen a two hundred and 0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.640 seventeen percent increase in that term in the last year. 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.040 And on TikTok you'll see all these video like I 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:03.920 want a chalant guy. I want someone to chalant me down. 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:09.159 And so chalant dating is a combination of effort and vulnerability. 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:12.240 It's saying I care. I'm going to show you that 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:15.800 I care, and I'm willing to be vulnerable even at 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:16.800 the risk of rejection. 0:17:17.280 --> 0:17:19.640 Yeah. And what's fascinating though, is we always get into 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:22.520 that trend of I want someone to be this way, 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:24.479 and it comes back to the same thing of like, well, 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:26.840 we're going to have to be this way too, because 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.919 there's only so much I love that term because again, 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:31.840 it's like it goes back to what you said earlier, 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:33.960 which is the goal. If your goal is I want 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:36.080 to find love and I want to commit to someone 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.840 and being in a monogamous relationship long term, you're going 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:41.120 to have to be chalant because guess what, even when 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:42.600 you've been with someone for ten years, you still have 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.000 to be schalant definitely. So the chalant never changes, it's 0:17:45.040 --> 0:17:48.040 always there. It's always care if and vulnerability. And then 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.080 it goes back to well, if you don't know what 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.920 your goal is, then of course you care more about 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:55.800 what everyone else thinks or being cringe or being left 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:59.040 on red or whatever it may be. And so it's 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:01.280 that goal piece I think is so important. 0:18:01.400 --> 0:18:04.040 Have you seen heated rivalry or you have not saying 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:06.240 that no, no, no, I know I've heard about it from 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:07.960 a million people. What I've not I really liked it. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.080 I don't think it's overrated. But it's been amazing to 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:13.600 see the reaction to that show. And I think one 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:16.600 of the reasons why is that it's a lot of 0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:20.520 chalant dating. And really the show has this pivotal point 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:23.320 where one of the characters, Shane, who's been holding back 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:27.480 his feelings, becomes more schalant and he says this famous line, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:30.080 you know, come to the cottage. I want you to 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:33.240 come to my cottage, And that's really about him showing 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.800 effort and being vulnerable, and that changes everything. And people 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:38.960 have really been drawn to the show because it's about 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:42.240 loving out loud and yearning for someone, and I think 0:18:42.280 --> 0:18:45.040 people are missing that, and we just have this entire 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.800 generation and maybe even you know, more than just gen Z. 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.800 That's sort of like sitting at home, hiding behind a screen, 0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:54.760 yearning for someone to yearn for them, but being so 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:58.280 afraid of showing effort. I just think it's a shame. 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:01.760 It's like, when did effort be cringe? When did trying 0:19:01.800 --> 0:19:04.840 for something become embarrassing? I think if you look at 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.560 the psychology behind it, it really has to do with 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.080 fear of rejection. And we found at Hinge that ninety 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:13.560 five percent of data say that they have this fear 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:16.080 of rejection. But if you just have people sitting at 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.159 home not willing to try, then they're never going to 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:21.960 get this thing that they clearly want, which is finding 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:22.760 a great partner. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.440 Yeah, and I think documented rejection is a painful point. 0:19:25.480 --> 0:19:27.879 It's what you said about the surveillance. So if someone's 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:29.920 not replying back and then it goes to the group chat, 0:19:30.000 --> 0:19:32.640 or you send a text where you were really vulnerable 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:34.840 and all of a sudden that text ends up in 0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:39.120 another group chat, and that's concerning because you don't want 0:19:39.119 --> 0:19:42.280 to be exposed for being vulnerable. And I think that 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:45.400 comes back to what you're saying. There's another statistic here 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:48.639 that hits on that exactly forty percent of men eighteen 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.760 to twenty five have never approached a woman in person. 0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.760 It sounds like that's happening because of a fear of rejection. 0:19:54.840 --> 0:19:57.280 It sounds like that's happening because if I don't even 0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:58.840 know what to say, I don't even know how to start. 0:19:58.880 --> 0:20:01.560 It sounds like that's happening because we don't really do 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.560 that anymore. So when me and you were dating at 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:07.320 that age, That's all I ever did. All I ever 0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:09.439 had to do was pluck up the courage to go 0:20:09.480 --> 0:20:11.600 over to a girl in a bar or a restaurant 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.480 or in the mall and say, hey, can I get 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:17.120 your number? And I remember how stressful that was, Like, 0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:20.760 it was stressful even back then, but that was the move. 0:20:20.800 --> 0:20:23.960 And sometimes you get rejected, sometimes it would work. And 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:26.520 so how do we even encourage when we're saying people 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:31.000 are losing basic connection skills, conversation skills. People are worried 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.320 if I go up to someone, will I look like 0:20:32.359 --> 0:20:34.800 a creep? People are worried I get rejected in public? 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:37.280 How terrible will it look? Everyone has their phones out? Now? 0:20:37.520 --> 0:20:40.399 How do we even begin to think about giving people 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:41.080 these skills? 0:20:41.600 --> 0:20:45.080 Everything you're saying I agree with where people listening to 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:46.920 this who may have been married for a while, are 0:20:46.920 --> 0:20:49.840 there any old gen X and older They might be like, yeah, 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:51.760 people have always been afraid of rejection. I think what 0:20:51.760 --> 0:20:53.719 we're really calling out here is that this is a 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:56.359 new and distinct thing. We're gen Z by nature of 0:20:56.400 --> 0:20:59.360 the surveillance culture. And also, I do think the pandemic 0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.320 you know, people don't want to bring up the pandemic anymore, 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:04.119 but it's like, if you came of age during the pandemic, 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:07.560 it did impact your social skills. And a lot of 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:09.960 the gen Z daters that I talk to say, you know, 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:13.320 I'm much more comfortable communicating through a screen or I 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.679 want to be able to check it with chat YOUBT first, 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.600 And it's like, sure, you can use those as strategies 0:21:18.640 --> 0:21:21.120 to get to the date, but once you're on the date, 0:21:21.240 --> 0:21:24.960 it's still like the analog version of like two people talking. 0:21:25.040 --> 0:21:27.840 You have to be able to make conversation in terms 0:21:27.840 --> 0:21:31.040 of people approaching each other in public. I think the 0:21:31.119 --> 0:21:35.600 answer there is really just to work on experiencing discomfort 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.359 and working through it and being able to see that 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.679 rejection can actually be redirection. So when you hear a 0:21:43.720 --> 0:21:46.359 bunch of nos, those are nos that you're hearing on 0:21:46.480 --> 0:21:49.280 the way to a different yes. And so you have 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:51.560 to get a bunch of nos to figure out what's 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:53.879 right for you. And I think that if you're so 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:57.520 fearful of a no, you never try and you never 0:21:57.600 --> 0:21:58.440 get to that yes. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.760 Yeah. Absolutely, there's another one that reminds me of you 0:22:01.800 --> 0:22:03.639 hesitate it. So this stab, this is why I put 0:22:03.680 --> 0:22:06.560 it in there. So sixty nine percent of gen Z 0:22:06.800 --> 0:22:10.440 respondents say they're not ready for a relationship, even though 0:22:10.480 --> 0:22:12.280 they may want one. Why do you think that. 0:22:12.280 --> 0:22:15.040 Is that absolutely sounds like hesitators, And maybe we're talking 0:22:15.040 --> 0:22:18.040 about a generation of hesitators. And so when you dig 0:22:18.080 --> 0:22:20.600 into the psychology of a hesitator, a lot of it 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:23.600 is around I'm not enough, I'm not where I need 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:26.280 to be yet. And so I'll talk to let's say 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.439 a male dater in his twenties in New York, and 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:31.440 he'll say, I can't date until I make six figures. 0:22:31.760 --> 0:22:34.560 And I find this is especially true with men, where 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.200 there's this sense of women need me to be a provider, 0:22:37.560 --> 0:22:41.800 and for a number of sociological cultural reasons, they don't 0:22:41.840 --> 0:22:43.560 feel like they're able to be that yet, so they 0:22:43.600 --> 0:22:46.439 don't even put themselves out there. But then, on the 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.800 other hand, we have the research and the insights into 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.159 what women want, and so only six percent of female 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:56.280 daters say they want a man who's the solo provider, 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.520 and seventy two percent of women on HINGE they'd much 0:23:00.600 --> 0:23:03.440 rather have someone who puts in effort than someone who 0:23:03.480 --> 0:23:06.360 makes more money, and so you have men saying I'm 0:23:06.400 --> 0:23:08.840 not eligible, I can't be the provider that I was 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:12.119 told I need to be, and women saying, actually, things 0:23:12.119 --> 0:23:14.679 have changed. I am more of a provider than my 0:23:14.800 --> 0:23:18.239 mother's generation or my grandmother's generation. And so what I 0:23:18.320 --> 0:23:22.840 want is emotional intelligence, emotional availability effort. And so you 0:23:22.840 --> 0:23:26.280 have two people who misunderstand what the other person wants, 0:23:26.320 --> 0:23:29.000 and then they're not putting themselves out there. 0:23:29.560 --> 0:23:32.080 That I mean that speaks to the root of so 0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:35.280 many challenges. When I speak and we're talking about heterosexual relationships, 0:23:35.320 --> 0:23:39.280 when I speak to women who say to me like, well, 0:23:39.320 --> 0:23:41.040 I just can't find the right guy. There's no good 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:42.400 guys out there. And then when I speak to guys, 0:23:42.400 --> 0:23:44.800 they're like, well, I can't get a match on an app. 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:46.720 And so then you go, wait a minute, what's going 0:23:46.720 --> 0:23:48.480 on here and where are we? So what are the 0:23:48.600 --> 0:23:52.480 other things that you're seeing that are almost causing this 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.760 tension between men and women? So one of them being men, 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:58.439 think they need to be earning six figures, women are saying, hey, 0:23:58.440 --> 0:24:01.280 we're happy to contribute. The other at tension points that 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:03.440 you're seeing that you think of misleading us from the 0:24:03.480 --> 0:24:05.040 actual point of what we're looking for. 0:24:05.280 --> 0:24:07.760 Yes, And so just to emphasize that effort point and 0:24:07.800 --> 0:24:11.239 chalant dating even more, I hear from women where they're like, 0:24:11.359 --> 0:24:13.600 this guy, he doesn't need to fly me to the moon. 0:24:13.760 --> 0:24:16.360 I just want simple things. I want him to remember 0:24:16.400 --> 0:24:18.960 the name of my best friend from work. I want 0:24:19.040 --> 0:24:20.879 him to know that I have a big meeting and 0:24:20.920 --> 0:24:23.320 send me a text wishing me good luck or following 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:26.639 up afterwards. And so women are saying like, I want 0:24:26.680 --> 0:24:29.639 effort and I want care and that's more important to 0:24:29.680 --> 0:24:31.800 me than money, and the men are just like, well, 0:24:31.840 --> 0:24:34.639 I was raised to, you know, be a lion, and 0:24:34.680 --> 0:24:37.199 the lion has to provide. And women are like, wait, no, 0:24:37.320 --> 0:24:40.000 I want a tiger who's emotional, and he's like but 0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:41.760 but I wasn't raised for that. And so I do 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:45.000 feel like the dating hasn't caught up with the data. 0:24:45.680 --> 0:24:48.840 The dating of how we interact and how in heterosexual 0:24:48.880 --> 0:24:52.199 relationships people perceive each other hasn't caught up with the 0:24:52.240 --> 0:24:54.680 fact that we do live in a different society where 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:57.600 women are earning more money and you know, soon two 0:24:57.640 --> 0:25:00.960 thirds of college graduates will be women, and so there's 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:02.040 really a disconnect there. 0:25:18.800 --> 0:25:21.160 There's a few things you said there that really caught 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:24.240 my attention, and they're two very different things. The first 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.119 one is this idea of men were not raised yeah, 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:31.040 to be that vulnerable tiger, as you put it, and 0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:34.080 I do see that as being a real, real challenge 0:25:34.119 --> 0:25:37.600 for men, where the men that do feel they're vulnerable 0:25:38.000 --> 0:25:40.800 feel that they're not strong enough for women, and the 0:25:40.880 --> 0:25:44.480 men that feel like they're trying to become financially successful 0:25:45.480 --> 0:25:47.920 may not feel emotionally available or women may not feel 0:25:47.920 --> 0:25:50.560 their emotionally available, and then you're stuck in this catch 0:25:50.600 --> 0:25:53.639 twenty two. How does a group of men go on 0:25:53.760 --> 0:25:55.960 to you know, it's almost like a big challenge to say, 0:25:56.119 --> 0:25:57.600 how do we get society, how do we get men 0:25:57.640 --> 0:26:01.720 in society to actually develop some of those emotional intelligence skills. 0:26:01.960 --> 0:26:04.199 I just want to acknowledge that it's really complicated and 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:06.240 that I hear it from both sides. So there's this 0:26:06.359 --> 0:26:08.720 quote that I love from Brene Brown where she says 0:26:09.160 --> 0:26:13.040 women beg men to be vulnerable, and they really want 0:26:13.080 --> 0:26:15.760 them to open up, but the second that they do, 0:26:16.119 --> 0:26:18.920 women can't stand it. And so it's like we tell 0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:20.960 men that we want them to be vulnerable, but actually, 0:26:21.000 --> 0:26:23.280 in many ways we want them to follow these scripts 0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:26.000 of masculinity. And so I think as a society, we're 0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.520 still sort of figuring it out. Like there used to 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:31.160 be more traditional gender roles, and I'm glad that we've 0:26:31.200 --> 0:26:34.080 developed past that. I'm glad that I can make an income, 0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:36.400 and like, I love my life and I love my career. 0:26:36.440 --> 0:26:39.320 But I also understand why people are confused, because when 0:26:39.359 --> 0:26:42.439 there's more ambiguity and more blurred lines, then people are 0:26:42.520 --> 0:26:45.080 figuring out their roles. And I think what you said 0:26:45.119 --> 0:26:47.560 is exactly what I'm seeing as well. You have men 0:26:47.600 --> 0:26:50.399 who aren't sure how vulnerable women actually want them to be, 0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:52.520 and then you also have women that are successful in 0:26:52.560 --> 0:26:56.399 making money, and then they fear that men are going 0:26:56.480 --> 0:26:59.880 to find them intimidating or they don't just not yeah, 0:27:00.040 --> 0:27:01.879 And so I feel like we're just kind of in 0:27:01.920 --> 0:27:04.920 that messy middle where like there was the way things 0:27:04.920 --> 0:27:07.520 were for a long time, and like for most of history, 0:27:07.560 --> 0:27:10.199 like men have had all the economic power, all the 0:27:10.240 --> 0:27:12.879 earning power, and then for a bunch of things that 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:15.159 have changed, let's say in the last fifty years, with 0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:18.879 feminism and other things that have progressed, you now have 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.879 brand new rules, and I think people just haven't figured 0:27:21.920 --> 0:27:24.399 it out. But what makes me sad about it is 0:27:24.440 --> 0:27:26.600 it just leads to a lot of misconnections. 0:27:27.240 --> 0:27:30.000 Yeah, the picture you just painted feels very true to me. 0:27:30.160 --> 0:27:33.800 That we had these very clear structures that I don't 0:27:33.800 --> 0:27:35.720 think we're healthy or good in any way, but they 0:27:35.760 --> 0:27:38.560 were clear. And what's happened now is we moved into 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:41.280 the age of nuance, and because our brains are not 0:27:41.320 --> 0:27:43.480 designed to deal with nuance as well, we kind of 0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:47.240 don't know how to navigate those things. And I would 0:27:47.240 --> 0:27:50.040 honestly say, and maybe you'd say the same about you 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:52.800 and your partner. I would say that my wife and 0:27:52.840 --> 0:27:55.399 I kind of toggle a lot of nuance for our 0:27:55.440 --> 0:27:59.240 relationship to work. We don't really have clear We have 0:27:59.320 --> 0:28:02.080 some very clear roles in some very not clear roles. 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:04.760 We have some parts of our relationship that are totally 0:28:04.800 --> 0:28:06.800 different to what we both imagined our life would be. 0:28:06.880 --> 0:28:10.160 We live across cities, we travel a lot, we spend 0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:12.280 a lot of time together and don't see each other 0:28:12.320 --> 0:28:15.359 for time, So there's so many nuances that we can't 0:28:15.480 --> 0:28:18.879 stay tied to our gender roles to make the relationship 0:28:18.920 --> 0:28:21.800 successful because that would just make us weaker and it's 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:24.119 almost like we've got to rise above those, but the 0:28:24.160 --> 0:28:26.000 new rules haven't been set yet and we don't know 0:28:26.000 --> 0:28:26.520 what they are. 0:28:26.880 --> 0:28:28.520 I definitely agree, and I would say I have the 0:28:28.520 --> 0:28:30.639 same thing in my marriage. So I do one hundred 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.560 percent of the laundry. My husband does one hundred percent 0:28:32.600 --> 0:28:35.840 of the garbage. That's because I like doing laundry, doesn't 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:38.040 bother me, and he doesn't want to do it. But 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:41.280 in other ways we kind of mix those gender roles up, 0:28:41.320 --> 0:28:43.280 so like he's one hundred percent in charge of like 0:28:43.440 --> 0:28:46.640 our food, our groceries, feeding our daughter. Like people ask 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:48.240 me what she eats, I'm like, I don't know, that's 0:28:48.240 --> 0:28:50.640 his department. And so I agree that there's a lot 0:28:50.680 --> 0:28:54.200 of nuance. I think that just pulling back and kind 0:28:54.200 --> 0:28:56.800 of zooming out. People are struggling right now because there 0:28:56.840 --> 0:29:00.720 are way fewer rules. Like if you went two hundred 0:29:00.840 --> 0:29:05.120 years ago, what were my ancestors doing. Well, I'm Jewish, 0:29:05.160 --> 0:29:07.920 so they would have known what to wear, they would 0:29:07.960 --> 0:29:11.880 have spent their days praying or studying the Torah, or 0:29:11.960 --> 0:29:15.120 knowing exactly what they could and couldn't eat. A matchmaker 0:29:15.120 --> 0:29:16.800 would figure out who to marry. There were just so 0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.959 many more rules that told you who you were, and 0:29:20.040 --> 0:29:23.000 now we've broken open a lot of those rules, and 0:29:23.040 --> 0:29:25.920 I think people are really struggling with knowing what to do, 0:29:26.040 --> 0:29:28.560 and in some ways they're craving rules. And so I 0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:31.840 don't think that where society should go, or certainly where 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:34.360 I want it to go, is going back to traditional 0:29:34.440 --> 0:29:37.120 gender rules, honest saying yeah, and I don't want that 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:40.040 at all, But I'm just acknowledging that I think without rules, 0:29:40.200 --> 0:29:43.520 people are struggling. And you can even see this in 0:29:43.560 --> 0:29:46.840 the rise of certain aspects of the manisphere, or you know, 0:29:46.920 --> 0:29:50.480 Catholicism is having a moment where I think people really 0:29:50.520 --> 0:29:52.160 feel like I just want someone to tell me what 0:29:52.240 --> 0:29:54.600 to do, because when it's up to me, I don't 0:29:54.600 --> 0:29:56.600 think I'm necessarily making great decisions. 0:29:56.840 --> 0:30:00.080 And that's hard because I think we all know so 0:30:00.440 --> 0:30:03.840 enough people who followed the perfect trajectory their life would 0:30:03.840 --> 0:30:06.480 have should have gone in and not been happy when 0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:09.680 it was decided by others. And almost agency and awareness 0:30:10.120 --> 0:30:13.760 are just such superpowers and privileges that we all get 0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:16.160 to decide who you spend your life with and what 0:30:16.280 --> 0:30:18.720 city you live in and what you do for work 0:30:18.800 --> 0:30:21.960 that I almost want to you know, help people feel empowered. 0:30:21.960 --> 0:30:24.560 That those are beautiful things to decide, and you don't 0:30:24.600 --> 0:30:28.200 want to outsource them. So let's go through my results 0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.600 and then you can tell me how they can improve 0:30:31.640 --> 0:30:34.840 and what to do with them. So just a caveat again. 0:30:34.960 --> 0:30:37.800 I answered this as who I was when I was dating, 0:30:37.840 --> 0:30:39.920 and I answered this as friends of mine who are 0:30:39.960 --> 0:30:42.000 dating right now, because that was my best way of 0:30:42.000 --> 0:30:44.360 doing it. So it says thanks for taking my three 0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:47.200 dating tendencies quiz, which everyone can take as well. We'll 0:30:47.240 --> 0:30:49.880 put the link in the on the screen right now, 0:30:49.880 --> 0:30:53.440 and in the comments, you scored equally high on the 0:30:53.520 --> 0:30:55.960 hesitator and the maximize tendencies. 0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:58.840 Yeah, so this is interesting. So sometimes people get both, 0:30:58.880 --> 0:31:01.960 but if you have the hesitant tendency, that usually overrides 0:31:01.960 --> 0:31:04.400 it because it means that for these other reasons, you're 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:08.360 not dating at all. And so I imagine that maybe the 0:31:08.400 --> 0:31:11.680 maximizers who you were when you were dating, and maybe 0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:13.840 the hesitator is your friends who aren't dating right now. 0:31:14.120 --> 0:31:17.000 That sounds very accurate. Yeah, if anything had a bit 0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:18.320 of the romanticizer in me. 0:31:18.280 --> 0:31:19.800 Too, I could also see that I wasn't. 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:25.000 So I'm like fully an idealistic, romantic kind of person. 0:31:25.120 --> 0:31:27.680 I mean, I think, just like Messy, you love eight 0:31:27.720 --> 0:31:30.280 reels of what you have, this is your favorite realm. 0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.280 So I'll just talk through each one and kind of 0:31:33.360 --> 0:31:36.040 how to overcome it. So we talked about the romanticizer, 0:31:36.480 --> 0:31:39.640 and so for them, they really believe that there's one 0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:42.480 person out there for them. There's research from a psychologist 0:31:42.560 --> 0:31:45.720 named Renee Franniak who breaks us into a framework called 0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.719 the work it out mindset versus the soulmate mindset. So 0:31:48.760 --> 0:31:51.320 people with the soulmate mindset believe if you find the 0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:54.360 right person, everything will be easy. And people with the 0:31:54.400 --> 0:31:57.960 work it out mindset know that when you're in a relationship, 0:31:58.040 --> 0:31:59.840 you have to put an effort to make it work. 0:32:00.160 --> 0:32:02.160 And so what we find is that people with this 0:32:02.240 --> 0:32:05.160 soulmate mindset, it's actually easy for them to get into 0:32:05.200 --> 0:32:07.840 relationships because they believe in love and they fall hard. 0:32:08.160 --> 0:32:11.160 But the moment that something tough happens, they think, can't 0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:13.320 be my soulmate. If it were my soulmate, it would 0:32:13.320 --> 0:32:16.920 be effortless, and so they give up too easily. And 0:32:17.000 --> 0:32:20.680 so my homework for the romanticizers out there is to 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:23.920 shift from the soulmate mindset, to the work it out mindset, 0:32:24.160 --> 0:32:27.120 and to understand that if you're putting in effort, then 0:32:27.200 --> 0:32:28.840 you're doing it right not wrong. 0:32:29.200 --> 0:32:30.840 I love that so well put. 0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:32.800 So then the next one is the maximizer, which is 0:32:32.880 --> 0:32:35.040 I was definitely a maximizer because I live in the 0:32:35.080 --> 0:32:37.200 Bay Area Silicon Valley. A lot of people I work 0:32:37.240 --> 0:32:40.840 with our maximizers, and I think our culture breeds maximizers 0:32:41.080 --> 0:32:44.320 because before I buy anything, I mean, it's so pathetic. 0:32:44.360 --> 0:32:47.680 I'm looking it up on Google. I'm checking wirecutter, what's 0:32:47.720 --> 0:32:50.720 the best vacuum, what's the best bluetooth headphones. It's almost 0:32:50.720 --> 0:32:54.040 like I've lost the confidence in like buying something. I 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:56.520 need to know like every single detail. And like we 0:32:56.640 --> 0:32:59.000 do this when we travel and if we're eating something. 0:32:59.400 --> 0:33:02.600 And so there's a tendency in our culture to do 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:06.280 what's called relation shopping, like to shop for someone as 0:33:06.320 --> 0:33:08.800 if it's a product, and then say, well, I want 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:11.120 the looks of this girl, the ambition of this girl, 0:33:11.240 --> 0:33:14.160 the family background of this girl, and then to think, 0:33:14.200 --> 0:33:16.880 if we just keep searching, we'll find the perfect person. 0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:20.360 And what happens is people just wait too long and 0:33:20.360 --> 0:33:24.120 then they realize I have I have fewer opportunities now, 0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:26.640 or the girl that I rejected ten years ago the 0:33:26.680 --> 0:33:29.000 guy said no to five years ago, like they've gone 0:33:29.040 --> 0:33:31.960 and found someone great and now I'm alone. And so 0:33:32.200 --> 0:33:36.000 for the maximizer, the solution is really to switch from 0:33:36.080 --> 0:33:41.080 maximizing to something called satisficing. So satisficing is a term 0:33:41.160 --> 0:33:44.640 from the Nobel Prize winner Herbert Simon, and it's a 0:33:44.760 --> 0:33:48.720 portmanteau of the words satisfy and suffice. So this is 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:53.240 how satisficing works. It's not about settling. Settling is such 0:33:53.240 --> 0:33:55.320 a curse word in my world. I'm sure for you too, 0:33:55.440 --> 0:33:57.480 Like no one wants to be told to settle. It's 0:33:57.520 --> 0:34:00.880 the s word. But instead, satisficing is this idea that 0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:03.440 you get super clear on what you want. You say, 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:05.760 these are my deal breakers, these are the things I 0:34:05.840 --> 0:34:07.400 must have. You know, if you want to have the 0:34:07.400 --> 0:34:10.279 same religion as someone, if you really want them to 0:34:10.360 --> 0:34:12.239 care about animals, if you want to have a certain 0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.959 number of kids. And once I find someone that has 0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:19.040 those really important qualities to me, I'm going to commit 0:34:19.080 --> 0:34:21.600 to them and try to make it work. Versus what 0:34:21.640 --> 0:34:24.400 a maximizer does, which is they find that person and 0:34:24.400 --> 0:34:26.480 they're like great, Well, if she exists, I'm going to 0:34:26.520 --> 0:34:29.960 find her. But an even hotter version. And so satisficing 0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:33.120 is really about knowing what's important to you. Finding someone 0:34:33.120 --> 0:34:37.200 that satisfies is that and committing. And this really important 0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:39.120 thing that I want to get across to people is 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:43.520 that it's not about making the perfect decision. It's about 0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:46.520 how you feel about your decision. And all of the 0:34:46.560 --> 0:34:50.279 research on maximizers show that they often feel regret about 0:34:50.320 --> 0:34:53.480 their decisions because once they make a decision, they're thinking, well, 0:34:53.520 --> 0:34:56.520 what else could I have had? Whereas a satisficer, they're 0:34:56.600 --> 0:34:59.399 much happier in life because they make a decision, they 0:34:59.400 --> 0:35:02.840 commit to it, and that's what matters. It doesn't matter 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:05.080 to make the perfect choice. It matters how you feel 0:35:05.120 --> 0:35:05.880 about your choice. 0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:08.480 Yeah, and these are it seems like everything you're offering, 0:35:08.520 --> 0:35:12.399 You're like, these really balancing principles, but require a lot 0:35:12.440 --> 0:35:14.359 of work to wrap your head around. When you've been 0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:18.120 conditioned for twenty thirty forty years to be a maximizer, 0:35:18.160 --> 0:35:22.280 it's hard to suddenly recognize the value of satisfying because 0:35:22.600 --> 0:35:25.640 it's worked for you, right, Like being that ambitious, driven 0:35:25.719 --> 0:35:28.640 a type person has worked for you, and now in love, 0:35:28.680 --> 0:35:30.520 you're like, well, maybe it won't work for you in 0:35:30.560 --> 0:35:31.759 this area specifically. 0:35:32.080 --> 0:35:34.320 I think that's a crucial point, is that what works 0:35:34.320 --> 0:35:36.960 for many people and other aspects of their life, whether 0:35:37.040 --> 0:35:41.600 it's exercise, making money, work, doesn't always apply in dating. 0:35:41.680 --> 0:35:44.160 And there is this alchemy, there is this sense of 0:35:44.200 --> 0:35:47.279 two people coming together, and it's why you know, no 0:35:47.320 --> 0:35:49.759 one has an algorithm that perfectly predicts who you're going 0:35:49.800 --> 0:35:52.640 to be with. It really is this thing where two 0:35:52.680 --> 0:35:55.120 people are in front of each other choosing each other, 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:57.200 and when you're in a relationship, you choose each other 0:35:57.280 --> 0:35:59.719 every single day. And I think that you have to 0:35:59.760 --> 0:36:02.880 take mindset that you apply to work and other optimization 0:36:03.000 --> 0:36:04.920 and you have to switch it when it comes to 0:36:05.000 --> 0:36:06.120 dating and relationships. 0:36:06.360 --> 0:36:09.200 Yeah, I always wanted to touch on, just briefly, on the 0:36:09.200 --> 0:36:12.719 top priorities. You mentioned this idea. Sometimes when I hear 0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:17.080 people's top priorities, my number one reaction is that doesn't 0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:20.920 make them a good partner. So, for example, even the 0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:23.400 three you mentioned is what people may say, and I 0:36:23.440 --> 0:36:25.359 know they weren't things that you said or we were 0:36:25.480 --> 0:36:27.760 coming up with a list, But when I think about 0:36:27.800 --> 0:36:31.520 like someone being of the same faith, it's helpful. But 0:36:32.040 --> 0:36:33.719 I know lots of people in my faith that I 0:36:33.719 --> 0:36:36.880 would never married, and so the point is that doesn't 0:36:36.880 --> 0:36:38.759 make them better at being in a relationship. It just 0:36:38.800 --> 0:36:41.320 gives us some common ground or like even like liking 0:36:41.360 --> 0:36:44.000 animals or whatever or maybe And I know those were 0:36:44.040 --> 0:36:48.080 just starting up throwing things out, but I hear things 0:36:48.160 --> 0:36:50.280 like that where it's like I really want to find someone, 0:36:50.320 --> 0:36:53.040 like I don't want to marry a doctor, And I'm like, what, Like, 0:36:53.200 --> 0:36:56.359 how is that even a category? Because unless you're really 0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:57.719 clear about the fact, I don't want someone to have 0:36:57.800 --> 0:37:00.640 late nights and busy schedule, if that's the reason in 0:37:01.200 --> 0:37:03.520 but if it's a personality type attached to that career, 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:05.880 I'm like, how do you even know that? Like, people 0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:09.560 are so multifaceted. It's not possible that every doctor in 0:37:09.600 --> 0:37:11.640 the world is X or every you know. So I 0:37:11.680 --> 0:37:14.640 guess my point is sometimes I worry with people's top 0:37:14.680 --> 0:37:17.759 priority list because if your top priority list doesn't make 0:37:17.800 --> 0:37:20.960 someone a better partner and better at relationships, it doesn't 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:21.760 actually matter. 0:37:22.000 --> 0:37:24.759 I'll share the research on what does and doesn't matter 0:37:24.800 --> 0:37:28.799 for long term relationship success, so the doesn't matter. One 0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.000 are things that people think matter, but matter less than 0:37:32.000 --> 0:37:34.600 people think they do. So the first one is looks. 0:37:35.000 --> 0:37:37.080 Of course you want to be attracted to your partner. 0:37:37.560 --> 0:37:40.040 Of course you want to have that chemistry with them. 0:37:40.320 --> 0:37:43.840 But what we know is that over time your feelings 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:46.680 towards somewhat adapt so you're really attracted to them in 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.000 the beginning, but over time you sort of get used 0:37:49.040 --> 0:37:50.799 to how they look. And this happens in many parts 0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:53.279 of life. There's this idea of adaptation. It's why a 0:37:53.360 --> 0:37:56.920 year after winning the lottery, many people's happiness levels revert 0:37:57.000 --> 0:37:58.840 to what they were before they won the lottery. We 0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.320 sort of get used to what's around. And that's also 0:38:01.360 --> 0:38:03.760 true for the second one, which is money. Yes, money 0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:06.520 makes things easier. Money can get rid of some problems 0:38:06.560 --> 0:38:09.480 in relationships and buy you some time back. But I 0:38:09.480 --> 0:38:12.160 think when people focus too much on money, they really 0:38:12.239 --> 0:38:14.520 miss out on the fact that it's not correlated with 0:38:14.560 --> 0:38:18.319 long term relationship success. Other things that people mistakenly look 0:38:18.360 --> 0:38:23.400 for include having really similar personalities. Well, I know that 0:38:23.440 --> 0:38:25.600 two of me in a relationship would be way too much, 0:38:26.160 --> 0:38:28.200 and two of my husband in a relationship might be 0:38:28.280 --> 0:38:30.880 too little, and so it's actually great to find someone 0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:33.680 not who's the same as you, but someone who balances you. 0:38:34.200 --> 0:38:36.640 And the same thing is true with people who look 0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:40.640 for the same hobbies. Yes, maybe if you both love wine, 0:38:40.640 --> 0:38:43.320 that's great. But if you love wine and your partner doesn't, 0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:45.919 you can go have fun drinking wine with someone else 0:38:45.960 --> 0:38:48.719 as long as your partner doesn't judge you for it. Now, 0:38:48.800 --> 0:38:50.920 let's talk about the things that matter more than people 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:54.120 think they do. So the first one is kindness. And 0:38:54.160 --> 0:38:57.680 I think that this is just completely underestimated, and part 0:38:57.680 --> 0:38:59.759 of it is because it's not that easy on a 0:38:59.800 --> 0:39:04.239 day app or just online to see someone's kindness. And 0:39:04.280 --> 0:39:06.160 so when you're out on a date with them, I 0:39:06.239 --> 0:39:08.600 want you to look for things like how they treat 0:39:08.680 --> 0:39:10.759 the weight staff, how they treat people that they don't 0:39:10.800 --> 0:39:14.120 need anything from, even how they treat you. The second 0:39:14.120 --> 0:39:17.760 one is emotional stability, and this is really about someone 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:20.680 who can get through a relationship and not react, that 0:39:20.760 --> 0:39:23.520 they can actually take a beat, see what the situation 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:27.680 is and really respond rather than react. And this is 0:39:27.719 --> 0:39:30.759 correlated with great relationships. And then some of the other 0:39:30.840 --> 0:39:33.680 ones are a growth mindset, something that I know you 0:39:33.760 --> 0:39:36.680 talk about on the show. And so someone who when 0:39:36.680 --> 0:39:38.839 they're met with a challenge, they can say, okay, well 0:39:38.840 --> 0:39:41.000 I don't have that skill, but I'll create that skill, 0:39:41.360 --> 0:39:44.440 versus somebody with a fixed mindset who says, you know, 0:39:44.480 --> 0:39:46.480 you're born with the skills you have and like, I'll 0:39:46.520 --> 0:39:48.640 never become good at that because I'm not good at 0:39:48.640 --> 0:39:49.080 that now. 0:39:49.800 --> 0:39:50.600 And then the. 0:39:50.600 --> 0:39:53.520 Ability to fight well together, so people think, oh, I 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:55.279 want to find someone who I don't fight with at all. 0:39:55.320 --> 0:39:58.560 It's like, no fights are inevitable, And there's research from 0:39:58.600 --> 0:40:02.319 the Gotmans that says that sixty nine percent of the 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:04.840 fights you have are perpetual. That means you're going to 0:40:04.920 --> 0:40:07.399 constantly fight about it for your whole relationship. Like I'm 0:40:07.440 --> 0:40:09.320 an early bird and my husband is more of a 0:40:09.400 --> 0:40:12.360 late bird, and like we always disagree about time and 0:40:12.400 --> 0:40:15.240 when we get to the airport, and so it's about fighting, well, 0:40:16.080 --> 0:40:19.000 it's not about not fighting. And then the final one, 0:40:19.000 --> 0:40:21.680 which has become super important to me and as part 0:40:21.719 --> 0:40:23.879 of my questions of the post eight eight that we'll 0:40:23.920 --> 0:40:27.600 talk about, is what side of you that person brings out. 0:40:27.840 --> 0:40:30.879 And this is really crucial because so often we date 0:40:30.920 --> 0:40:34.440 someone for their resume, their bio data. We say he 0:40:34.520 --> 0:40:36.839 has all the qualities my mom told me to look for. 0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:39.480 He went to the right schools, he has the right job. 0:40:39.840 --> 0:40:42.200 But if when you show up, he makes you feel 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:46.279 anxious or insecure or less then or he doesn't laugh 0:40:46.320 --> 0:40:48.120 at your jokes, which makes you think, oh, am, I 0:40:48.200 --> 0:40:50.560 not as funny as I thought I was. Pay attention 0:40:50.680 --> 0:40:53.400 to that. That is your body telling you that you 0:40:53.440 --> 0:40:56.280 don't feel comfortable with this person, and they're not bringing 0:40:56.280 --> 0:40:58.480 out the side of you who you want to be, 0:40:58.480 --> 0:41:01.799 because whoever you marry, you're going to be the side 0:41:01.840 --> 0:41:04.640 of yourself that they bring out. And so so much 0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:06.840 of what I try to do is to help people 0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:10.040 tune into their nervous system and to how they feel 0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:12.960 on the date and after the date, because who cares 0:41:12.960 --> 0:41:16.160 about the resume? Who cares about their job? Do you 0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:17.920 like who you are around them? 0:41:18.040 --> 0:41:20.320 Yeah? I love that you broke that down from a 0:41:20.400 --> 0:41:23.440 data perspective, and it totally matches with what my intuition's 0:41:23.480 --> 0:41:26.360 been saying for so long, because everything you mentioned in 0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:29.840 a second category are completely about how someone is in 0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:34.160 a relationship versus how someone is anywhere else in their life, 0:41:34.200 --> 0:41:37.080 which just doesn't correlate. And I think so many people 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:40.560 get into relationships because of all of the first script, 0:41:40.840 --> 0:41:42.960 and we don't even think about the second until you're 0:41:43.560 --> 0:41:45.839 deep into it, engaged, married, and then you go, wait 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:48.719 a minute, like, this person isn't kind Like One of 0:41:48.760 --> 0:41:51.360 my favorite things about my wife is that she doesn't 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:53.560 judge me like that has to be one of the 0:41:53.560 --> 0:41:56.759 most freeing, most beautiful things is that I can try something, 0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.080 I can do this, I can be bad at this, 0:41:59.120 --> 0:42:01.120 I can be good at this, and I don't feel judged. 0:42:01.160 --> 0:42:04.360 And that's like the ultimate experience of kindness, where I 0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:06.520 don't feel like anything I do is judged, whether I 0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:08.600 work too odd or work too little, whether I made 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:10.880 a decision there or here. It's there's a sense of trust, 0:42:10.920 --> 0:42:14.040 and there's a sense of commitment, and there's a sense 0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:16.480 of understanding. At the same time, she's the first one 0:42:16.480 --> 0:42:18.640 who roasted me and called me out if she wants to, 0:42:18.680 --> 0:42:20.600 and she's able to do that too, And I think 0:42:21.360 --> 0:42:24.839 that feels so safe for me, at least in what 0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.160 kindness looks like. And I think of that as such 0:42:28.160 --> 0:42:30.320 an important thing to look for, as you've rightly pointed 0:42:30.320 --> 0:42:34.000 out from the data, as opposed to like, yeah, are 0:42:34.000 --> 0:42:36.879 they this tall? Do they hang out in the same 0:42:36.880 --> 0:42:39.080 places as I do. Do they you know, whatever else 0:42:39.160 --> 0:42:41.960 it may be that comes up, What do you think 0:42:42.040 --> 0:42:44.239 is the biggest lie we've been sold in love? 0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:46.600 I would have to say that the biggest lie that 0:42:46.600 --> 0:42:49.240 we've been sold in love is this idea of the spark. 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:52.959 And it's sort of become my unofficial tagline or motto, 0:42:53.040 --> 0:42:55.880 which is the spark. And I really do believe this 0:42:56.040 --> 0:42:58.920 because I think that when people go on dates looking 0:42:58.960 --> 0:43:03.200 for instant chemistry, they often miss out on great potential partners. 0:43:03.840 --> 0:43:06.080 So the first myth of the spark is that if 0:43:06.080 --> 0:43:08.520 you don't feel it at the beginning, you'll never have it, 0:43:08.920 --> 0:43:10.960 and we know from the research that that's not true. 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:13.960 So only eleven percent of people experience love at first 0:43:14.000 --> 0:43:16.920 sight with their partner. And so I think because of 0:43:17.040 --> 0:43:19.839 rom coms, because of Disney movies, we just sort of expect, like, 0:43:20.400 --> 0:43:22.200 I'll know it when I see it, he'll walk into 0:43:22.280 --> 0:43:25.560 the room, we'll catch eyes at the farmer's market, and 0:43:25.600 --> 0:43:28.160 we'll live happily ever after, And it's just not true, 0:43:28.200 --> 0:43:31.479 like so many people are with someone who they spent 0:43:31.640 --> 0:43:34.680 time with. I just saw this funny meme yesterday that 0:43:34.840 --> 0:43:37.480 was like your coworker isn't hot. You just spend forty 0:43:37.520 --> 0:43:39.960 hours a week ten feet from him, and I was like, 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:43.759 you nailed it. That's called the mirror exposure effect. Oftentimes, 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:45.960 the more times you're around someone, or the more times 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:47.839 you hear a song, the more you like it because 0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:50.680 you get more familiar with it. And so it's not 0:43:50.920 --> 0:43:53.840 true that if you don't feel the spark, you never will. 0:43:53.880 --> 0:43:57.280 The spark often does grow over time. And the second 0:43:57.360 --> 0:43:59.600 myth of the spark is that if you have it, 0:43:59.600 --> 0:44:02.440 it's a good thing. So sometimes the spark is a 0:44:02.440 --> 0:44:05.000 good thing, and those people get married and have great relationships. 0:44:05.160 --> 0:44:08.080 But a lot of times it's actually our brains and 0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:11.800 our bodies giving off alarm bells, like I feel insecure 0:44:11.800 --> 0:44:13.799 around this person, does he like me? Does he not 0:44:14.000 --> 0:44:17.399 like me? And so we interpret it as chemistry when 0:44:17.440 --> 0:44:20.880 it's actually anxiety. And having done this research for a 0:44:20.920 --> 0:44:23.120 long time, I actually find that certain people are just 0:44:23.200 --> 0:44:27.120 really sparky. They're either really good looking, or sometimes it's 0:44:27.160 --> 0:44:30.440 that they're really narcissistic and they can really layer on 0:44:30.600 --> 0:44:33.120 the charm. But that doesn't mean that they're going to 0:44:33.120 --> 0:44:35.640 be good long term partners. It just means that in 0:44:35.680 --> 0:44:38.040 the moment you felt this connection to them or this 0:44:38.080 --> 0:44:41.799 attraction to them. But sometimes that spark is actually the 0:44:41.880 --> 0:44:45.040 sign of anxiety and not knowing where you stand with them. 0:44:45.920 --> 0:44:48.600 And the third thing, the third myth of the spark 0:44:48.719 --> 0:44:52.640 is that if you have it, then the relationship is viable, 0:44:53.160 --> 0:44:57.040 and that's also not true. I researched so many couples 0:44:57.160 --> 0:44:59.279 going into my book and for my other work that 0:44:59.440 --> 0:45:01.960 started with the they really had it at the beginning, 0:45:02.400 --> 0:45:05.040 and then they thought this is enough, but they fought 0:45:05.080 --> 0:45:08.120 all the time. They didn't have shared values, and so yes, 0:45:08.160 --> 0:45:10.799 the spark can get you pretty far into a relationship, 0:45:10.840 --> 0:45:13.160 but it's not enough, and so make sure that you 0:45:13.200 --> 0:45:15.960 don't get into the wrong relationship because you met the 0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:17.360 quote unquote right way. 0:45:18.080 --> 0:45:20.960 This is so refreshing to hear because I feel like 0:45:22.080 --> 0:45:24.880 it just shows the power of cultural conditioning and messaging. 0:45:25.040 --> 0:45:28.520 It's one of the reasons why we launched our production company, 0:45:28.520 --> 0:45:31.440 Perfect Strangers last week, because our goal was how do 0:45:31.480 --> 0:45:35.760 we create entertaining storytelling but that's actually based on reality, 0:45:35.800 --> 0:45:38.600 so we can transform these messages because like you said, 0:45:38.640 --> 0:45:42.399 we've all grown up watching two people lock eyes and 0:45:42.600 --> 0:45:46.040 everything makes sense or drive off with the happily ever 0:45:46.160 --> 0:45:48.960 after and that's what we want, and that's what I wanted, 0:45:49.040 --> 0:45:50.960 quite frankly, like that's what I was looking for when 0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:53.719 I was a teenager, and I always believe that that's 0:45:53.760 --> 0:45:57.680 what love was. And now feeling like I'm in love 0:45:57.760 --> 0:46:01.319 and being in a loving relationship that's evolved. I don't 0:46:01.360 --> 0:46:04.319 think that's what love's like at all. But it's hard 0:46:04.360 --> 0:46:06.040 when you're dating and you're hoping for and you're going 0:46:06.040 --> 0:46:08.000 to all these dates and you're like, well, that was boring, 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:10.399 that wasn't fun enough. And then you go and even 0:46:10.400 --> 0:46:12.879 if you're watching a TV show, a reality show which 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:14.960 isn't real, like it's based on an island in the 0:46:15.000 --> 0:46:17.719 middle of nowhere. Gosh, everyone's in bikinis and whatever, and 0:46:17.760 --> 0:46:20.960 it's like, that's not real life, and so how is 0:46:21.040 --> 0:46:23.000 that gonna You know, it's the mind. It's the kind 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:25.920 of like the seeds of ideas that are planted in 0:46:25.960 --> 0:46:28.279 all of our minds of what healthy love looks like. 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:31.760 You actually never see healthy love because it's just happening 0:46:32.000 --> 0:46:34.919 behind closed doors inside someone's house. They're not broadcasting it. 0:46:35.200 --> 0:46:37.960 Right, It's not as fun on a TV show to 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:40.920 see like the day in and day out work that 0:46:40.960 --> 0:46:43.880 people have to do, and it's the hard conversation that 0:46:43.920 --> 0:46:46.239 you have to have. It's supporting a partner when they're 0:46:46.239 --> 0:46:50.319 going through depression or ailing parents. It's just not as cinematic. 0:46:50.400 --> 0:46:53.640 And like, what is cinematic is two people meeting each other. 0:46:54.000 --> 0:46:57.040 But we've become so obsessed with the we met. And 0:46:57.200 --> 0:47:01.000 if you meet someone and you're with them for fifty years, 0:47:01.520 --> 0:47:05.160 the day you met is point zero zero five percent 0:47:05.560 --> 0:47:07.920 of your total relationship. And so when you hear that, 0:47:07.960 --> 0:47:10.240 you're like, who cares about the we met? But people 0:47:10.360 --> 0:47:13.200 want to say at the dinner party, well, I was 0:47:13.239 --> 0:47:15.400 at the library and I was returning a book and 0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:17.520 he was looking for the same book. And it's like, yes, 0:47:17.560 --> 0:47:20.400 that is cute, and that is romantic, But what's romantic 0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:22.480 is the fact that you met and you're making a 0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:26.040 great relationship, not really based on how you met. 0:47:26.360 --> 0:47:29.000 Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about dating apps. Yeah, that is 0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:30.799 how the majority of people are meeting today as far as 0:47:30.880 --> 0:47:32.959 I know, statistically, is that true? Yeah? 0:47:32.960 --> 0:47:36.359 So since twenty seventeen, there's research from Michael Rosenfeld at 0:47:36.360 --> 0:47:38.839 Stanford that shows that meeting online is the number one 0:47:38.840 --> 0:47:39.960 way that couples meet. 0:47:40.360 --> 0:47:42.719 Yeah, right, so that we have to talk about it. 0:47:42.840 --> 0:47:45.600 Let's do it. Do dating apps make us feel like 0:47:45.640 --> 0:47:46.600 we're replaceable? 0:47:47.239 --> 0:47:48.880 I think that there is a big sense of the 0:47:48.920 --> 0:47:51.279 paradox of choice, this idea that when we have so 0:47:51.320 --> 0:47:54.680 many options, we don't value each one as much, or 0:47:54.719 --> 0:47:57.440 that we regret our decision. And so I think the 0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:00.439 best part of dating apps is that it's a lot 0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:03.480 easier to find someone, especially if you're in what we 0:48:03.560 --> 0:48:07.440 call a fin market. So Dat's over fifty five LGBTQ 0:48:07.520 --> 0:48:10.040 plus daters, someone where it might have been hard to 0:48:10.040 --> 0:48:12.960 go around your community and say, well, who's single and 0:48:13.000 --> 0:48:15.239 who's looking for someone like me? And so it really 0:48:15.280 --> 0:48:17.759 does a good job at connecting people who wouldn't have 0:48:17.840 --> 0:48:21.000 met otherwise. But I do think it introduces this idea 0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:23.759 of many choices, and people are struggling with that. 0:48:24.080 --> 0:48:25.680 If you're at the opposite end of way, you're getting 0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:28.399 zero matches on a dating app, how do you fix that? 0:48:28.520 --> 0:48:29.880 Where would you suggest people stop? 0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:33.080 The number one thing to do if you are having 0:48:33.120 --> 0:48:36.239 trouble getting matches is to fix your profile. And your 0:48:36.239 --> 0:48:39.960 profile is essentially like your billboard, and it's this one 0:48:40.080 --> 0:48:42.799 chance with limited real estate to share who you are 0:48:42.960 --> 0:48:45.080 and what you're about, and I can share some of 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:47.680 the top tips we found at Hinge for making a 0:48:47.680 --> 0:48:48.360 great profile. 0:48:48.520 --> 0:48:49.120 Yeah please. 0:48:49.280 --> 0:48:52.000 So the first thing is that your first photo is 0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:55.239 so important. Just from watching people go through profiles, I 0:48:55.280 --> 0:48:57.120 can tell you that what they do is they look 0:48:57.160 --> 0:48:59.200 at the first picture, they decide if they like you 0:48:59.320 --> 0:49:01.840 or not, and based on that they keep looking. So 0:49:02.000 --> 0:49:05.120 the first picture really matters a ton, and you want 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:07.920 one that's a clear headshot. Doesn't have to be a 0:49:07.920 --> 0:49:10.040 professional headshot, but I can see what you look like. 0:49:10.120 --> 0:49:13.360 You're not wearing sunglasses, there's no shadow, there's no filter. 0:49:13.560 --> 0:49:15.560 Just show me what you look like. That's really where 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:18.239 to start, and obviously it should be flattering. Then you 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:20.640 want to have a variety of photos that show me 0:49:20.680 --> 0:49:23.279 different parts of yourself. So it's almost like show me 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:25.560 the story of who you are. A mistake that I 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:27.840 see people making a lot is you know, if a 0:49:27.880 --> 0:49:30.880 guy likes anime, he'll write about that on his Hinge profile. 0:49:30.960 --> 0:49:33.359 Have have photos from anime and it's like got it, 0:49:33.719 --> 0:49:36.000 you love anime. Hopefully the next person does too, But like, 0:49:36.320 --> 0:49:39.680 isn't there more to you? Show me more variety? And 0:49:39.760 --> 0:49:42.160 so you want to have the first headshot. Then you 0:49:42.200 --> 0:49:44.560 want to have a photo of you doing an activity 0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:47.640 that you love, so it could be cooking, hiking. You know, 0:49:47.640 --> 0:49:49.239 my friend is a magician, he has a picture of 0:49:49.320 --> 0:49:52.000 himself on stage. Then you also want to have a 0:49:52.040 --> 0:49:55.040 full body shot. Some people don't like that, but it's true. 0:49:55.040 --> 0:49:57.879 People are looking for what you look like. And then 0:49:57.920 --> 0:50:00.560 you want to have one with friends and family. Give 0:50:00.600 --> 0:50:02.239 me a sense of what it would be like to date. 0:50:02.280 --> 0:50:04.799 You show me that you have people that care about 0:50:04.840 --> 0:50:07.200 you and that you spend time with. And then for 0:50:07.320 --> 0:50:10.160 your prompts on Hinge, you want a mixture of humor 0:50:10.200 --> 0:50:13.480 and vulnerability, so you know if you love dad, jokes 0:50:13.520 --> 0:50:16.680 include that I love. On Hinge, there's voice prompts where 0:50:16.719 --> 0:50:20.520 you can record something funny. So my friend has one 0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:24.520 where the prompt is how to pronounce my name? And 0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:29.920 then he says Joe, And obviously you know some people 0:50:29.960 --> 0:50:31.799 right back and they're like, what you think, I don't 0:50:31.840 --> 0:50:33.160 know how to pronounce the name Joe, And he's like, 0:50:33.239 --> 0:50:35.439 not for me. And other people are like, I love 0:50:35.480 --> 0:50:38.120 your sense of humor, so I think that's like perfect, 0:50:38.160 --> 0:50:40.920 And that actually leads me to a big point around profiles, 0:50:40.920 --> 0:50:43.759 which is that you don't want to attract everyone. You 0:50:43.800 --> 0:50:46.880 don't want to be chocolate ice cream that everyone likes. 0:50:47.120 --> 0:50:49.759 You want to be, you know, mintship. You want to 0:50:49.760 --> 0:50:52.440 be something that some people like and some people don't like. 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:55.160 And in our research at Hinge, we actually found this 0:50:55.320 --> 0:50:58.400 where we did an experiment. This wasn't on Hinge, it 0:50:58.480 --> 0:50:59.919 was like with different people and they knew there were 0:51:00.000 --> 0:51:04.680 anticipating where some people wrote on their profiles really specifically 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:07.400 that they were looking for something serious, and other people 0:51:07.440 --> 0:51:09.279 wrote that they're, you know, just looking for someone kind 0:51:09.320 --> 0:51:12.040 and adventurous. And what we found was for the people 0:51:12.080 --> 0:51:16.160 who wanted something serious, they liked those more serious profiles 0:51:16.280 --> 0:51:19.000 way more, and the people who weren't looking for something 0:51:19.040 --> 0:51:21.920 serious were turned off by their profiles. And that is 0:51:22.000 --> 0:51:24.399 exactly what you want. You want to turn the right 0:51:24.440 --> 0:51:28.719 people on and the wrong people off. You want fewer options, 0:51:28.760 --> 0:51:31.200 but you want those options to be really aligned with 0:51:31.320 --> 0:51:32.279 what you're looking for. 0:51:32.719 --> 0:51:35.319 Yeah, that's great, and you can really then filter out 0:51:35.680 --> 0:51:38.080 the nonsense because if you want something serious, why waste time. 0:51:38.360 --> 0:51:41.239 Yes, yeah, it's not a popularity contest. It's not to 0:51:41.239 --> 0:51:44.920 get the most likes it's really be more efficient match 0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:46.840 with the people who want what you want. On Hinge, 0:51:46.880 --> 0:51:49.319 we have dating intentions where you can say looking for 0:51:49.440 --> 0:51:52.759 long term, short term, like just get more specific about 0:51:52.760 --> 0:51:54.920 what you're looking for, and then the right people are 0:51:54.920 --> 0:51:57.520 going to find you. If you're trying to be you know, 0:51:57.560 --> 0:52:01.040 the golden retriever that everyone likes, it's harder to actually 0:52:01.040 --> 0:52:01.920 find the right match. 0:52:18.760 --> 0:52:21.640 I want to try something with you. Sure, we have 0:52:21.719 --> 0:52:27.040 two Hinge dating profiles. We've got permission from the individuals 0:52:27.080 --> 0:52:30.279 for their face to be used in their pictures, and 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:31.760 I'm going to pass this to you in a second, 0:52:32.200 --> 0:52:33.880 and i want you to rate them and help them 0:52:33.880 --> 0:52:36.279 basically stay you just told us what we can do. Right, 0:52:36.320 --> 0:52:38.640 So there's there's one guy and one girl. So I'm 0:52:38.640 --> 0:52:39.520 going to show you this one. 0:52:39.640 --> 0:52:41.200 Wait, I thought this was Will Arnett. 0:52:41.520 --> 0:52:45.400 No it's not. That's so much. 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:50.160 Okay, So the first picture, I would say, it's not 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:52.360 a headshot, but it's you know, I do get a 0:52:52.400 --> 0:52:54.840 sense of what this person looks like. There's good lighting. 0:52:56.080 --> 0:52:58.719 I feel like the body language is a little closed off, 0:52:58.840 --> 0:53:02.319 just like standing in that arms in front of you 0:53:02.440 --> 0:53:05.000 to me, you know, I'm not Vanessa van Edwards, but 0:53:05.120 --> 0:53:06.879 I feel like it kind of gives me a sense 0:53:06.920 --> 0:53:09.280 of someone who's like a little more timid, not as confident. 0:53:10.239 --> 0:53:13.040 But I think that the first photo is okay, but 0:53:13.120 --> 0:53:14.320 let's see the rest of the profile. 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:16.640 Okay, good, that's helpful. Okay. 0:53:16.760 --> 0:53:21.799 A random fact I love is that honey never expires. 0:53:23.120 --> 0:53:25.400 I just don't love that prompt. It's not one of 0:53:25.400 --> 0:53:28.239 my favorites because it doesn't show me anything about who 0:53:28.280 --> 0:53:32.360 you are. And I like to think about your profile 0:53:32.440 --> 0:53:34.440 not just as what you write, but even the prompts 0:53:34.480 --> 0:53:37.120 you choose to respond to. And I like to think 0:53:37.160 --> 0:53:39.360 about it as almost like a menu at a restaurant. 0:53:39.440 --> 0:53:41.879 You should choose a prompt that shows who you are. 0:53:42.320 --> 0:53:45.560 You should choose a prompt that shows what you're looking for. 0:53:46.040 --> 0:53:48.960 And so I think a random fact, it's like, okay, 0:53:49.000 --> 0:53:51.960 maybe that's a good conversation starter where someone can say 0:53:51.960 --> 0:53:54.800 I didn't realize that, but it's just not that revealing, 0:53:54.880 --> 0:53:56.880 And even being towards the top of the profile, it 0:53:56.960 --> 0:53:58.360 kind of feel like it's a little bit of a 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.359 waste of special special real estate love. 0:54:01.360 --> 0:54:03.440 How honest you are. This is very ver, This is 0:54:03.600 --> 0:54:04.200 very helpful. 0:54:04.239 --> 0:54:06.080 It never crosses my mind to not be honest. 0:54:06.200 --> 0:54:07.960 No, but it's very helpful because I think these are 0:54:07.960 --> 0:54:09.800 the things that we will trip ourselves up from. We 0:54:09.840 --> 0:54:10.759 want to help them find love. 0:54:10.680 --> 0:54:12.759 So for sure. Okay, so this one is interesting. So 0:54:12.880 --> 0:54:15.799 for work, they said entertainment. So one thing I've seen 0:54:15.880 --> 0:54:18.080 in talking to a lot of people about their profiles 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:21.240 is that or sorry, talking to people who look at profiles, 0:54:21.280 --> 0:54:23.520 is that when someone's too vague, people often jump to 0:54:23.640 --> 0:54:26.560 negative assumptions. So I worked with a client who said, 0:54:27.080 --> 0:54:28.640 and this is in the Bay Area, if a guy 0:54:28.640 --> 0:54:32.240 says entrepreneur, I assume he's unemployed, and I swipe left, 0:54:32.600 --> 0:54:34.399 and I was like, what, Like, there's just so many 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:36.640 ways of being an entrepreneur. And so what I would 0:54:36.680 --> 0:54:39.080 say is my advice for him is to maybe be 0:54:39.120 --> 0:54:41.960 a little more specific because people might just assume the 0:54:41.960 --> 0:54:45.280 wrong thing. And my advice to people viewing this profile 0:54:45.440 --> 0:54:48.600 or other profiles would be, if there's something that gives 0:54:48.640 --> 0:54:52.160 you a yellow flag, don't just swipe left or say no, 0:54:52.520 --> 0:54:56.600 actually ask instead of assume. Okay, So this next one, 0:54:57.320 --> 0:55:00.200 wearing the suit, I think what I get from it 0:55:01.040 --> 0:55:04.600 is that I kind of get the same thing as 0:55:04.600 --> 0:55:07.040 I do from the first one like, he's making a 0:55:07.160 --> 0:55:10.280 very similar expression. It's kind of shot from a similar angle. 0:55:10.960 --> 0:55:15.360 He's not really smiling. I feel like it. It's a 0:55:15.400 --> 0:55:17.640 cute too, but I don't get that much more information. 0:55:19.120 --> 0:55:19.440 Okay. 0:55:19.480 --> 0:55:22.759 The next one, Oh, this guy likes women, right, was 0:55:22.840 --> 0:55:23.720 I making an assumption? 0:55:24.719 --> 0:55:25.000 Okay? 0:55:25.040 --> 0:55:27.560 The next one is with him and his friend. I 0:55:28.280 --> 0:55:31.000 like it because I think there's an intimacy there. It 0:55:31.040 --> 0:55:33.560 looks like he's wearing a cross necklace, which maybe gives 0:55:33.600 --> 0:55:36.600 me some more information. He's sort of making the same 0:55:36.640 --> 0:55:41.480 smile with no teeth. I think that one's okay. And 0:55:41.520 --> 0:55:46.160 then green flags I look for appreciating sarcasm. I really 0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:48.279 don't like that one. We know there's a lot of 0:55:48.360 --> 0:55:51.359 hinge app cliches, and one of them is the one 0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:55.279 I'm fluent in sarcasm. I think this is similar where 0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:57.759 it's just like, I don't really learn that much about you. 0:55:57.960 --> 0:55:59.759 There's not a lot of detail. It kind of just 0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:01.440 makes you fade into the background. 0:56:01.960 --> 0:56:02.280 Okay. 0:56:02.320 --> 0:56:05.600 The next one I really don't like. He's looking away 0:56:05.600 --> 0:56:10.319 from the camera. I can't really see his space. To me, 0:56:10.480 --> 0:56:13.360 that picture kind of like pushes me away versus draws 0:56:13.400 --> 0:56:15.280 me in. Sorry, I'm being mean. 0:56:15.160 --> 0:56:18.600 To this guy. But it's all this mean we're hoping 0:56:18.680 --> 0:56:21.879 that he can actually he's getting this is like this 0:56:21.920 --> 0:56:25.160 is gold dust. You're getting a direct advice from the. 0:56:25.120 --> 0:56:28.560 Next one my greatest strength, My greatest strength, picking the spot. 0:56:28.880 --> 0:56:31.160 I'm just like, bro, there's so much more that you 0:56:31.239 --> 0:56:34.400 could say here, just get specific. There's this rule in 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:38.600 comedy that the specific is the universal. The more specific 0:56:38.680 --> 0:56:41.239 you are, the more people will actually relate to it, 0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:43.640 and the funnier it is. And I'm just like, this 0:56:43.719 --> 0:56:46.200 is so vague. Picking the spot for what? And then 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:50.400 the next one is a video of him playing tennis. 0:56:51.360 --> 0:56:51.600 You know. 0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:53.880 I like that it's you know, someone doing an activity 0:56:53.920 --> 0:56:56.040 you love, but it's like it's from behind. Could it 0:56:56.080 --> 0:56:59.320 have perhaps shown you from the front. And so guys 0:56:59.400 --> 0:57:02.200 especially tell me like I don't have better pictures or 0:57:02.239 --> 0:57:03.960 like I don't go around ask my friends to take 0:57:04.000 --> 0:57:06.640 pictures of me. I know our friend Jared Freed and 0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:10.000 his special thirty seven in single, He's just like talking 0:57:10.000 --> 0:57:12.680 about how like imagine if guys were like girls like 0:57:13.080 --> 0:57:15.120 at the bachelor party, like okay, take a picture of 0:57:15.160 --> 0:57:18.240 me here, but still guys like step it up. Yeah, 0:57:18.240 --> 0:57:20.920 And then you know, I think I don't mind the 0:57:21.000 --> 0:57:24.880 tennis one, but I would much prefer to its from 0:57:24.920 --> 0:57:26.720 the front. And then the last one is him with 0:57:26.800 --> 0:57:29.439 his friends, and I'm kind of like, okay, I see 0:57:29.480 --> 0:57:34.560 the crew. So going back to the top, what I 0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:38.320 would say is, I want you to find a better 0:57:38.360 --> 0:57:42.760 first photo that really shows you headshot style clearly what 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:45.480 you look like. And I don't really see you smiling 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:47.840 with your teeth much, but I would love to see 0:57:47.840 --> 0:57:50.280 one of those. I want you to just start from 0:57:50.280 --> 0:57:52.440 scratch on the prompts. I want you to give more 0:57:52.480 --> 0:57:55.280 specific answers, longer answers. I want to have a clear 0:57:55.400 --> 0:57:58.080 sense of who you are, what you're about, what you want, 0:57:58.680 --> 0:58:02.240 and I would maybe keep one of the more professional 0:58:02.280 --> 0:58:05.600 looking photos, either the first one or the one in 0:58:05.640 --> 0:58:09.120 the suit. I like the ones of you and your friends, 0:58:09.840 --> 0:58:13.320 but I would maybe choose no. I actually like both 0:58:13.360 --> 0:58:15.440 of them. I think the tennis one. Can you try 0:58:15.480 --> 0:58:18.040 to get one where I can see your face and 0:58:20.200 --> 0:58:23.000 you know, just add more specificity and tell me more 0:58:23.080 --> 0:58:26.320 about what you're looking for, because right now I think 0:58:26.960 --> 0:58:29.600 this profile feels generic and I think we could make 0:58:29.600 --> 0:58:30.360 it more specific. 0:58:30.760 --> 0:58:34.280 Great advice. So, and is there a need to rate 0:58:34.440 --> 0:58:36.120 on a scale of one to ten or not. Really, 0:58:36.480 --> 0:58:36.920 I don't. 0:58:37.040 --> 0:58:39.440 Because I don't know him. It's harder for me to 0:58:39.520 --> 0:58:42.080 do that. Like in my coaching, a big conversation I 0:58:42.080 --> 0:58:45.280 have with people as I say, this profile doesn't match 0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:47.439 the person I'm seeing in front of me, Like you're 0:58:47.480 --> 0:58:50.080 so vibrant, you're so funny. I don't see that here. 0:58:50.200 --> 0:58:53.280 And a great achievement for me in coaching was when 0:58:53.320 --> 0:58:57.000 I had this client and he was South Asian and 0:58:57.160 --> 0:58:59.200 people often put him in a box. They were like 0:58:59.440 --> 0:59:02.320 South Asian engineer, Like I know everything about him. And 0:59:02.360 --> 0:59:05.160 then I was like, he's actually so silly, and we 0:59:05.280 --> 0:59:09.000 made his profile extremely silly, and we added videos of 0:59:09.080 --> 0:59:12.040 him wearing different costumes and we really played that up. 0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:15.360 And then a few years after we stopped working together, 0:59:15.440 --> 0:59:18.080 he sent me a text that he was engaged and 0:59:18.120 --> 0:59:21.280 that the person that he had gotten engaged to had 0:59:21.440 --> 0:59:25.680 first liked his hinge video of him being really silly. 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:28.440 And it's like, by being more clear about who he was, 0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:30.240 you couldn't put him in a box. You could actually 0:59:30.240 --> 0:59:31.920 see who he was. And so I don't have a 0:59:32.000 --> 0:59:33.840 rating for this profile because I don't know the person. 0:59:33.880 --> 0:59:35.720 So I don't know how true to life this is. Yeah, 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:37.800 but I think there's a lot of room for improvement 0:59:37.840 --> 0:59:39.920 and just be more chalant. 0:59:40.040 --> 0:59:43.080 Yeah, I love it. Great advice. So now I'm going 0:59:43.120 --> 0:59:45.400 to hand you another profile, theystem of a woman, and 0:59:45.480 --> 0:59:47.360 I'd love to see what you have to say. 0:59:47.480 --> 0:59:51.160 Great. It's funny because I just sometimes feel like women 0:59:51.160 --> 0:59:53.320 are way better at profiles because they just have so 0:59:53.360 --> 0:59:55.640 many more photos of them, and they're probably more comfortable 0:59:55.640 --> 0:59:58.280 asking their friends. So maybe first I'm just gonna look 0:59:58.280 --> 1:00:00.720 at the whole thing to get a vibe, and then 1:00:00.760 --> 1:00:04.800 I'll have some comments. So first photo, I really like it. Like, 1:00:05.360 --> 1:00:08.600 I love the lighting, I like the vibe, I like 1:00:08.680 --> 1:00:12.680 her smile. You know, it could potentially be cropped in 1:00:12.760 --> 1:00:15.280 a little bit more. There's like a little more visual 1:00:15.320 --> 1:00:17.560 information and noise than we need. Like I think it 1:00:17.560 --> 1:00:20.400 could be crop more on her face. But I like it, 1:00:20.440 --> 1:00:22.440 and I think I the number one thing is can 1:00:22.480 --> 1:00:24.800 I see clearly what she looks like? And I can? Okay, 1:00:24.840 --> 1:00:27.680 the next one is my greatest strength, turning chaos into 1:00:27.720 --> 1:00:31.280 a good story later. I actually like that one to me. 1:00:31.840 --> 1:00:34.240 Reading between the lines, I get a good vibe from it, 1:00:34.280 --> 1:00:38.080 which is I'm a person that can deal with different situations, 1:00:38.120 --> 1:00:41.920 like if something goes wrong, I'm not going to fall apart. 1:00:42.480 --> 1:00:44.400 And it actually reminds me. I used to work at 1:00:44.400 --> 1:00:46.280 Airbnb a long time ago, and we would talk about how, 1:00:46.360 --> 1:00:50.640 like a really great Airbnb traveler was somebody who knows 1:00:50.720 --> 1:00:53.520 that when things go wrong, that's when they get interesting. 1:00:54.160 --> 1:00:56.280 And like that's the vibe that I get from her, 1:00:56.600 --> 1:01:02.720 where she's not afraid of discomfort or adventure. She's like, 1:01:02.800 --> 1:01:04.600 it makes a good story later. So maybe I'm like 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:06.280 overly reading into it, but I like that. 1:01:06.440 --> 1:01:08.760 But that's probably good, right, got you curious, you got 1:01:08.760 --> 1:01:10.520 you engaged, Yeah, that's good. 1:01:11.000 --> 1:01:13.480 One thing I didn't mention on the other person's profile 1:01:13.680 --> 1:01:16.040 is this idea of a hook. So a lot of 1:01:16.080 --> 1:01:18.960 times people think about a profile as a monologue. I'm 1:01:19.000 --> 1:01:22.160 just talking at you, But a great profile should be 1:01:22.160 --> 1:01:25.080 a dialogue where I'm starting the conversation and you respond, 1:01:25.600 --> 1:01:29.440 so turning chaos into a good story later. And then 1:01:29.480 --> 1:01:32.600 she could add a question that says, ask me about 1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:36.080 the time that I almost got kidnapped in Vietnam. Then 1:01:36.120 --> 1:01:38.720 I'm like, holy cow, I want to hear about Vietnam. 1:01:38.760 --> 1:01:41.480 I want to hear about that story and so it 1:01:41.560 --> 1:01:44.720 initiates actually, and it also especially for women attracting men, 1:01:44.800 --> 1:01:47.360 it's like, just make it easy for them. Just make 1:01:47.400 --> 1:01:49.320 it so that like they know what to ask you, 1:01:49.360 --> 1:01:51.760 like you want them to ask more questions, Like make 1:01:51.840 --> 1:01:54.520 it easy for them to start the conversation. Okay, I 1:01:54.600 --> 1:01:57.360 like that it's executive assistant at production company, you know, 1:01:57.560 --> 1:02:01.160 versus the person who wrote entertainment. There's more information. So 1:02:01.200 --> 1:02:04.000 she wrote Christian, and I think this is interesting because 1:02:04.400 --> 1:02:07.200 when I've gone through profiles with people that are swiping, 1:02:07.560 --> 1:02:10.240 sometimes they see Christian and they're like, well, I'm not religious. 1:02:10.240 --> 1:02:12.240 She must be so religious to put it on there. 1:02:12.320 --> 1:02:14.840 I just don't think that's the case. That's a situation 1:02:14.880 --> 1:02:17.600 where you should ask instead of assume. So does Christian 1:02:17.680 --> 1:02:21.360 to her mean that she's in Mass every Sunday or 1:02:21.360 --> 1:02:24.760 does it mean that she celebrates Easter and Christmas? And 1:02:24.840 --> 1:02:27.520 so really finding out what that means to her, and 1:02:27.560 --> 1:02:30.120 then I love this. So on Hinde, she filled out 1:02:30.240 --> 1:02:32.840 her dating intentions, so she's looking for a life partner, 1:02:33.200 --> 1:02:36.840 and she filled out her dating type and she put monogamy. So, 1:02:37.080 --> 1:02:39.280 especially in the Bay Area, there's so many people who 1:02:39.280 --> 1:02:42.600 are like, thank god Hinge added dating type because I'm 1:02:42.680 --> 1:02:45.280 sick of going on dates with guys who are not monogamous. 1:02:45.280 --> 1:02:47.400 And so anyway, I like that she used more of 1:02:47.400 --> 1:02:50.760 the information available and for someone who's not looking for 1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:52.880 those things, she's going to turn them off and that's 1:02:52.920 --> 1:02:53.400 a good thing. 1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:59.600 Okay. The next picture super cute. 1:03:00.120 --> 1:03:02.800 I kind of get a preppy vibe, like she's holding 1:03:02.800 --> 1:03:08.200 this little parasol she's drinking. I like it, Like I 1:03:08.240 --> 1:03:10.680 think I can see what she looks like. She looks cute. 1:03:11.200 --> 1:03:13.240 We could kind of call this a full body shot, 1:03:13.400 --> 1:03:15.600 but I think what's great is that I'm just like 1:03:15.600 --> 1:03:17.200 getting a sense of her. 1:03:17.760 --> 1:03:18.120 Okay. 1:03:18.200 --> 1:03:22.200 The next one is also great because it's showing her 1:03:22.200 --> 1:03:24.760 with her friend, but I can tell which one she is. 1:03:24.840 --> 1:03:27.080 So a mistake that people make is like You'll have 1:03:27.120 --> 1:03:29.840 like ten guys in baseball caps and I'm like, which 1:03:29.880 --> 1:03:32.440 one is you? Like this is so annoying? Or like 1:03:32.920 --> 1:03:36.400 ten girls in bridesmaid's robes with the same southern curled 1:03:36.440 --> 1:03:38.760 hair and it's like this isn't where's waldo? Like make 1:03:38.800 --> 1:03:40.320 it easy for me to see what you look like? 1:03:40.600 --> 1:03:42.200 And so for this one, it's like I can tell, 1:03:42.240 --> 1:03:45.480 like she's sort of glamorous. She has like, you know, 1:03:45.560 --> 1:03:47.760 a cute outfit, but it's really easy to tell which 1:03:47.800 --> 1:03:51.680 one she is. I go crazy for someone who can 1:03:51.720 --> 1:03:57.439 cook well a truly spiritual experience. I think that one's good. 1:03:57.520 --> 1:04:00.640 I think she could have more details, Like she could 1:04:00.720 --> 1:04:04.880 do another hook where it could be like like message 1:04:04.920 --> 1:04:07.760 me if you know how to cook Paea, or like 1:04:09.720 --> 1:04:12.360 let's have a French host competition, just something that's setting 1:04:12.400 --> 1:04:16.600 the other person up. Okay, the next one, he's a 1:04:16.640 --> 1:04:18.480 fantastic sure. 1:04:18.480 --> 1:04:19.280 You know. The next one. 1:04:19.280 --> 1:04:20.760 It's so funny, you know, like the idea of like 1:04:20.760 --> 1:04:23.440 a male gaze. It's like I definitely think this is 1:04:23.480 --> 1:04:25.600 like a hot photo and like a guy would be 1:04:25.640 --> 1:04:27.440 into it, and like, look like there is kind of 1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:29.800 the strategic game part, and I think that that is 1:04:29.840 --> 1:04:34.080 like a great photo. And then typical Sunday. Okay, this 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:38.520 is probably my number one favorite hinge prompt because there's 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:41.000 so much you can do a typical Sunday. So let's 1:04:41.000 --> 1:04:44.240 see what you're wrote. Being outdoors playing pickleball. She could 1:04:44.240 --> 1:04:47.680 play with you jay or spending time around any area 1:04:47.840 --> 1:04:51.520 that has dogs around. I think that's okay, Like I 1:04:51.560 --> 1:04:55.160 get a sense of her, but I think it could 1:04:55.320 --> 1:04:59.120 like have more detail or like being outdoors and playing 1:04:59.160 --> 1:05:02.560 pickleball like so similar, and so I would say, like 1:05:02.720 --> 1:05:04.720 great prompt. I think many people should use it, but 1:05:04.840 --> 1:05:07.400 I would like a little more specificity, like are you 1:05:07.640 --> 1:05:09.640 uh dumplings at home on a Sunday? 1:05:09.680 --> 1:05:09.960 Girl? 1:05:10.160 --> 1:05:12.920 Are you uh having dinner with your family every Sunday? 1:05:12.960 --> 1:05:15.520 Like I think a little more detail. Okay, she has 1:05:15.560 --> 1:05:18.880 the full body shot. One thing I would say is 1:05:18.920 --> 1:05:21.280 that she definitely looks like very glamorous in a lot 1:05:21.320 --> 1:05:23.960 of these, which maybe if that's her vibe, that's great, 1:05:24.320 --> 1:05:26.720 but I'm not seeing as much variety in terms of 1:05:26.760 --> 1:05:30.200 like is she also just down to be with her friends? 1:05:30.280 --> 1:05:32.160 And so if this is truly who she is, where 1:05:32.200 --> 1:05:34.800 she's like I love to, like get dressed up, have 1:05:34.880 --> 1:05:37.960 a cute purse, have a drink in my hand. If 1:05:38.000 --> 1:05:40.080 that's who she is, then she's portraying that. But I 1:05:40.120 --> 1:05:43.520 think it's possible and probable that there's more to her 1:05:44.040 --> 1:05:46.360 and that like, she looks great in all the pictures, 1:05:46.840 --> 1:05:48.920 but they are a little bit one note. 1:05:49.000 --> 1:05:52.040 So like in sweats, if you spend time in sweats 1:05:52.200 --> 1:05:53.000 or not, Yeah, were. 1:05:52.880 --> 1:05:55.400 Like maybe like her with her family being a little 1:05:55.440 --> 1:05:57.880 bit more like girl next door. And so this is 1:05:57.920 --> 1:06:00.680 another one where I'm like, I don't know who she is. 1:06:00.760 --> 1:06:02.640 So maybe this is accurate, and maybe she's like, this 1:06:02.720 --> 1:06:04.680 is what I'm doing right now, but I think she's 1:06:04.720 --> 1:06:07.400 maybe lacking a little bit of that variety. But I 1:06:07.440 --> 1:06:10.040 would say, like this is like a good profile with 1:06:10.160 --> 1:06:13.800 potential for a little bit more variety and maybe a 1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:17.040 little more specificity. But I think she is like beautiful 1:06:17.080 --> 1:06:20.000 and chose great pictures and we do get a sense 1:06:20.080 --> 1:06:22.760 of who she is and what she likes. 1:06:23.040 --> 1:06:26.439 Fantastic, great, Thank you, Logan, thank you so much. Deep 1:06:26.480 --> 1:06:29.720 reading very well, Yeah, very deep. I love it. I mean, 1:06:29.840 --> 1:06:31.800 what you just showed us is that someone could be 1:06:31.800 --> 1:06:35.000 working on that first profile and have that up there 1:06:35.360 --> 1:06:37.880 and maybe get very few matches, not because they're not 1:06:37.920 --> 1:06:40.480 a great guy and not a great person and have 1:06:40.600 --> 1:06:44.200 so much to offer, but just because that's the bio, 1:06:44.320 --> 1:06:46.800 that's the resume that people are seeing and there's nothing 1:06:46.800 --> 1:06:48.960 for them to engage on. I really appreciate what you 1:06:49.000 --> 1:06:51.640 said about making it easy for men, because I mean 1:06:51.680 --> 1:06:54.360 I think about even back when I had to approach someone, 1:06:54.760 --> 1:06:56.640 it was so much more easy to approach a woman 1:06:56.680 --> 1:06:59.320 who made it easier for me to approach her, And 1:06:59.440 --> 1:07:01.560 it would take so much courage to approach someone who 1:07:01.600 --> 1:07:04.160 gave you no signals whatsoever. And so even for her 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:06.919 if she really wants people to lean in, giving them 1:07:06.960 --> 1:07:09.680 that opportunity to say, let's have a cooking competition or 1:07:09.720 --> 1:07:11.840 whatever it was, or whatever it may be. I think 1:07:11.880 --> 1:07:16.280 that invitation for action, that initiation is so important. 1:07:15.880 --> 1:07:18.120 Right, It's like, it's not a test, it's a layup, 1:07:18.360 --> 1:07:20.640 like make it easy for the other person to know 1:07:20.680 --> 1:07:22.960 what to engage you on. And so if you aren't 1:07:22.960 --> 1:07:25.040 getting the number of matches you want, first thing I 1:07:25.040 --> 1:07:27.520 would do is make your profile as good as possible. 1:07:27.840 --> 1:07:30.439 Show it to some friends, get some new pictures, Say 1:07:30.480 --> 1:07:32.760 to your closest friend, is the person who you see 1:07:32.800 --> 1:07:34.200 in front of you the same person you see in 1:07:34.280 --> 1:07:36.800 this profile, and if not, change it. The second thing 1:07:36.840 --> 1:07:40.280 I would do is send comments instead of just likes. 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.640 So this really trains the algorithm to show who you're 1:07:43.680 --> 1:07:46.760 looking for. Comments are much more likely to lead to 1:07:46.960 --> 1:07:49.200 a date than just sending a like, And it just 1:07:49.280 --> 1:07:51.880 shows more effort. Right, we're talking about chalant dating, so 1:07:52.200 --> 1:07:55.320 put more effort in hinge actually just launched something within 1:07:55.360 --> 1:07:57.920 the past few months called convos Starters, and it's a 1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:01.880 way to basically use AI not to write the message 1:08:01.880 --> 1:08:04.040 for you, but just to kind of spark inspiration where 1:08:04.040 --> 1:08:07.400 it's like if it's a girl playing chess, you know, 1:08:07.440 --> 1:08:09.280 there might be like a little bubble that pops up 1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:11.880 that says like checkers versus chess, and then you can say, oh, yeah, 1:08:11.880 --> 1:08:13.600 that's a good idea. I'm going to ask about backgammon. 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:15.920 And so it's kind of just like that little coach 1:08:15.960 --> 1:08:18.519 in your pocket that's telling you, like, if you're stuck 1:08:18.560 --> 1:08:20.320 on what to say, here are a few ideas, and 1:08:20.360 --> 1:08:22.160 it has it like for each picture and each prompt. 1:08:22.280 --> 1:08:24.280 We hear so many people say that there's no good 1:08:24.320 --> 1:08:26.479 people on the apps, Well what are they missing? 1:08:26.840 --> 1:08:29.599 Yeah, it's so complicated, Like I hear that all the time, 1:08:29.960 --> 1:08:32.599 and I think there's plenty of good people out there. 1:08:32.640 --> 1:08:35.200 There's just all these misconnections. And I don't think it's 1:08:35.240 --> 1:08:37.680 just about apps. I think it's about everyday life. Like 1:08:37.680 --> 1:08:41.080 I feel like we're just missing each other. And this 1:08:41.160 --> 1:08:43.040 has become kind of an obsession of mine. Have you 1:08:43.080 --> 1:08:44.679 heard of the term friction maxing. 1:08:45.120 --> 1:08:47.839 I've heard of it, Please explain it. What is friction maxing? 1:08:47.920 --> 1:08:49.320 So this is something I've been thinking about for a 1:08:49.360 --> 1:08:52.040 few years, but there was this viral article about friction 1:08:52.120 --> 1:08:54.160 maxing and I was like, yes, Like that's the word 1:08:54.160 --> 1:08:56.760 that I've been looking for. And so friction maxing is 1:08:57.200 --> 1:09:00.840 choosing to put more inconvenience into your life in order 1:09:00.880 --> 1:09:03.880 to have more human connection. Go to the grocery store 1:09:04.040 --> 1:09:07.280 instead of ordering instacart, you know, take the subway where 1:09:07.280 --> 1:09:10.320 you're going to interact with people, overtaking an uber. And 1:09:10.360 --> 1:09:12.920 it's like these tech companies have kind of convinced us 1:09:13.160 --> 1:09:15.400 your life should be as convenient as possible and you 1:09:15.439 --> 1:09:17.960 will be happy when you reduce friction. And I think 1:09:17.960 --> 1:09:21.120 that's a lie. Like, think about the definition of friction. 1:09:21.200 --> 1:09:23.559 It's when two things rub against each other. 1:09:23.840 --> 1:09:24.599 And if you think. 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:27.200 About that in the real world, it's like rubbing shoulders 1:09:27.200 --> 1:09:31.200 with someone in line at an event or just meeting 1:09:31.240 --> 1:09:34.000 new people. And so I think that we've become obsessed 1:09:34.040 --> 1:09:37.800 with self care and boundaries and like those things are great, 1:09:37.800 --> 1:09:40.160 but I think it's a little out of control where 1:09:40.200 --> 1:09:43.560 self care often is selfish. This is my schedule and 1:09:43.640 --> 1:09:45.599 we can't hang out unless you can definitely do it 1:09:45.600 --> 1:09:47.760 on my schedule, or like, I go to bed at 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:49.760 eight pm every night, so I could never go on 1:09:49.800 --> 1:09:51.640 a date with you in the evening. It's like, in 1:09:51.720 --> 1:09:55.840 kind of protecting yourself from discomfort, you're really missing the 1:09:55.960 --> 1:09:58.120 chance to interact with people. And like, I'm just seeing 1:09:58.120 --> 1:09:59.759 this all the time, and I see it with myself. 1:10:00.120 --> 1:10:02.880 There just is that urge what's the most convenient option? 1:10:03.400 --> 1:10:05.960 And I'm really trying to fight it in my own life, 1:10:06.240 --> 1:10:10.000 adding more friction in being more around other people, fighting 1:10:10.040 --> 1:10:14.000 the isolation. And so I think that when you approach 1:10:14.040 --> 1:10:17.240 someone in public, it is riskier and you might get rejected, 1:10:17.280 --> 1:10:20.360 but you're creating friction that might lead to a great result. 1:10:20.680 --> 1:10:22.800 And so I think all of us have to increase 1:10:23.320 --> 1:10:26.479 our ability to withstand discomfort because it's going to lead 1:10:26.520 --> 1:10:30.080 to great stories and so many more relationships. 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:33.200 Yeah, well said, well said. Can you you explain friction 1:10:33.320 --> 1:10:36.840 maxing Shalan dating? Can you explain what rose jail is 1:10:37.280 --> 1:10:40.080 and why people experiencing not my favorite topic? Yes? 1:10:40.439 --> 1:10:42.240 Yeah, so rose jeal is something that you know, I 1:10:42.240 --> 1:10:44.120 don't hear about it as as much now, but a 1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:47.000 few years ago where people feel like, oh the people 1:10:47.080 --> 1:10:49.400 that I want to see on hinge, I have to 1:10:50.840 --> 1:10:53.960 buy money or spend money on a rose to get them. 1:10:54.479 --> 1:10:56.280 And so what I would say is like the rose 1:10:56.320 --> 1:10:59.640 system does work, and that we see that people that 1:10:59.720 --> 1:11:02.320 send rose are two times as likely as other people 1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:03.479 to actually get to a date. 1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:07.439 Yeah, that sounds like good. It's what's interesting about the 1:11:07.479 --> 1:11:11.120 friction Maxine. Going back to that, it's almost just helpful 1:11:11.240 --> 1:11:13.800 to be out there and bumping into people and meeting people, 1:11:13.880 --> 1:11:16.760 because you actually become better at conversation, You get find 1:11:16.800 --> 1:11:19.960 new things to talk about, you have more experiences. We 1:11:20.040 --> 1:11:22.160 have a loneliness epidemic in the world anyway, and so 1:11:22.280 --> 1:11:25.280 the ability to just be in public places and bump 1:11:25.280 --> 1:11:27.280 into people and and other things like, I mean, I'm 1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:31.200 pickleball's biggest promoter, but it's I have made so many 1:11:31.360 --> 1:11:34.799 casual pickleball friends just by playing pickleball at public courts, 1:11:35.320 --> 1:11:37.320 and it's just one of those things where you just 1:11:37.360 --> 1:11:39.120 start a game up with someone and you get to 1:11:39.160 --> 1:11:41.280 know each other and next thing you know, you're hanging out. 1:11:41.320 --> 1:11:43.360 And I feel the same is true. I was at 1:11:43.400 --> 1:11:46.439 a my friend runs a really cool acting class, and 1:11:46.439 --> 1:11:48.040 he asked me to come check it out and I 1:11:48.040 --> 1:11:50.720 went a couple of weeks ago just to observe, and 1:11:50.920 --> 1:11:52.760 everyone in his class, like you could tell they just 1:11:52.760 --> 1:11:55.160 have this amazing community. I was like, I wish everyone 1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:57.320 came to this class because there was such a great 1:11:57.400 --> 1:11:59.519 energy there and people are encouraging each other. They were kind, 1:11:59.560 --> 1:12:01.240 and I was like, you could easily find someone here 1:12:01.240 --> 1:12:03.040 to match with. I was just thinking about all the 1:12:03.080 --> 1:12:09.120 possibilities of places where there is community built around something singular, 1:12:09.320 --> 1:12:12.439 almost like we know that just you know, thirty to 1:12:12.439 --> 1:12:14.600 forty years ago, people to meet at their church or 1:12:14.640 --> 1:12:17.160 place of worship, people to meet in the building they 1:12:17.200 --> 1:12:20.800 lived in, Like you needed almost this singular place where 1:12:20.840 --> 1:12:23.240 you congregated for a particular need, which is how we 1:12:23.320 --> 1:12:26.439 met people, whether it was a Sunday roast or a 1:12:26.439 --> 1:12:29.200 family dinner and family friends were invited. And it almost 1:12:29.200 --> 1:12:31.200 feels like we've lost that. And I think that's what 1:12:31.240 --> 1:12:32.320 you're encouraging people to do. 1:12:32.600 --> 1:12:35.400 Absolutely. And there was this quote going around last year, 1:12:35.479 --> 1:12:38.760 the cost of community is inconvenience, And I think people 1:12:38.800 --> 1:12:41.320 are just so obsessed with making their lives frictionless and 1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:44.720 not ever inconveniencing themselves that they forget that. Yeah, it's 1:12:44.720 --> 1:12:47.040 not that fun to help your friend move, but that's 1:12:47.120 --> 1:12:49.120 part of being a friend and being in a community. 1:12:49.160 --> 1:12:50.760 And I would say in my life, I've sort of 1:12:50.840 --> 1:12:54.320 taken this to the extreme. So during the pandemic, my 1:12:54.400 --> 1:12:57.040 husband and I moved into this commune with twenty of 1:12:57.040 --> 1:13:00.000 our friends, and so we each had our own little apartment, 1:13:00.520 --> 1:13:03.240 but you have twenty people living together and having dinner 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:05.759 together every night. And those were some of the happiest 1:13:05.840 --> 1:13:08.519 years of my life. And yes, sometimes there was friction. 1:13:08.680 --> 1:13:10.160 You know, it was twenty twenty. We had to have 1:13:10.240 --> 1:13:14.280 these like long, boring, antagonistic meetings about COVID protocol. But 1:13:14.680 --> 1:13:16.960 that was the price that you pay to live with 1:13:17.000 --> 1:13:20.200 your friends. And I think that we constantly choose what 1:13:20.280 --> 1:13:23.320 we think is best for ourselves, but what we really 1:13:23.360 --> 1:13:27.560 do is make things convenient, and then we are more isolated. 1:13:27.640 --> 1:13:30.400 And like when you're at home, behind your screen, you're 1:13:30.439 --> 1:13:32.519 not out there meeting new people. And it's not just 1:13:32.560 --> 1:13:34.880 about meeting the guy you're going to marry. It's about 1:13:34.880 --> 1:13:36.840 meeting the girl who has a brother who has a 1:13:36.880 --> 1:13:38.600 friend who you're going to meet if you all go 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:41.559 to that festival together. And I think that like if 1:13:41.600 --> 1:13:43.880 you tie a lot of the strings together that we're 1:13:43.920 --> 1:13:47.559 talking about, Like there's a loneliness epidemic. There's men and 1:13:47.600 --> 1:13:50.960 women who are thinking that the other person wants something 1:13:51.000 --> 1:13:54.200 different from them. And like, the more times that you 1:13:54.240 --> 1:13:56.519 put yourself in places where you're going to meet someone, 1:13:56.920 --> 1:14:00.719 the more friction you're creating, the more opportunity for connection 1:14:00.840 --> 1:14:03.200 that you're taking. And I hope that that's a big 1:14:03.240 --> 1:14:06.000 message that people take away from this conversation is be 1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:09.120 a chalant dat put your effort out there, be willing 1:14:09.160 --> 1:14:12.760 to get rejected, friction max put yourself in more situations 1:14:12.800 --> 1:14:15.479 where it's not convenient, but you're going to meet more people, 1:14:15.520 --> 1:14:17.759 And like, isn't that what life is really about? 1:14:18.040 --> 1:14:20.840 Totally? It's so true, And I think that's it feels 1:14:20.880 --> 1:14:22.760 like the ethos of this whole conversation, which is like 1:14:23.360 --> 1:14:28.160 seek discomfort, become more resilient, live with the challenge that 1:14:28.560 --> 1:14:30.960 there is a high rejection proportion of just finding the 1:14:31.000 --> 1:14:33.000 one and the one thing I like to remind people 1:14:33.000 --> 1:14:36.679 also is that if everyone liked you and you liked everyone, 1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:39.439 it wouldn't be that valuable of a discovery. Like the 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:42.360 beautiful thing about love is that you found someone who 1:14:42.400 --> 1:14:44.320 wants to work with you on it and you want 1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:46.160 to work with them on it, And how special is that? 1:14:46.439 --> 1:14:48.200 And if you felt that with every person you went 1:14:48.240 --> 1:14:50.759 out on a date with, or if every person responded 1:14:50.760 --> 1:14:53.400 to you positively, well, then we wouldn't value love as much. 1:14:53.439 --> 1:14:56.760 The reason why we value love and long term relationships 1:14:56.800 --> 1:15:00.800 is because they're rare, because they're special, they're hard, they're 1:15:00.840 --> 1:15:03.080 not something that you feel freely available with everyone. 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:06.479 Absolutely, And I do this work and my mission is 1:15:06.520 --> 1:15:08.920 really to help people find love because I think it's 1:15:08.960 --> 1:15:11.200 one of the most important things that you can experience. 1:15:11.280 --> 1:15:14.360 And who you choose as your partner, that's your board 1:15:14.360 --> 1:15:17.080 of directors, that's a person advising you right like, you 1:15:17.200 --> 1:15:19.519 become the average of the people that you're around, and 1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:21.839 your partner is going to be one of those people. 1:15:22.200 --> 1:15:24.200 And so I think that it really deserves a lot 1:15:24.200 --> 1:15:27.040 of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of care, 1:15:27.640 --> 1:15:30.240 and that the more that we can put that effort 1:15:30.280 --> 1:15:32.639 in and not be afraid of it, the more great 1:15:32.680 --> 1:15:33.880 relationships we're going to have. 1:15:34.200 --> 1:15:36.040 Do you believe in right person, wrong time? 1:15:36.600 --> 1:15:38.800 That's funny that you asked that, because I've been thinking 1:15:38.880 --> 1:15:41.400 about it lately. So you know, this is kind of 1:15:41.400 --> 1:15:44.120 a thing that people say, like timing is everything, and 1:15:44.160 --> 1:15:46.679 I used to not believe that. I used to believe 1:15:47.080 --> 1:15:49.400 if it was the right match, the person would make 1:15:49.479 --> 1:15:52.080 at the right time. And my thinking on that has changed, 1:15:52.479 --> 1:15:55.120 where if you're dating someone but they're in medical school 1:15:55.240 --> 1:15:56.960 and they really don't have time for you, I don't 1:15:56.960 --> 1:15:58.599 think it's going to work out. So I would say, 1:15:59.040 --> 1:16:02.440 the right person the wrong time is not the right person. 1:16:02.400 --> 1:16:05.400 Got it. Yeah, it's a question I love to ask 1:16:05.439 --> 1:16:09.360 people because I feel like these are those maybe the romanticizers, yeah, 1:16:09.400 --> 1:16:12.040 who have this way of thinking about something and it 1:16:12.120 --> 1:16:13.479 keeps them trapped. Yeah. 1:16:13.520 --> 1:16:15.559 Like I was just asked this question the other week 1:16:15.640 --> 1:16:17.800 where this person was like, oh, I was dating this guy, 1:16:17.880 --> 1:16:20.360 but he recently got out of a relationship and then 1:16:20.439 --> 1:16:23.400 we were fighting a lot and I ended things. Do 1:16:23.439 --> 1:16:25.479 you think it was timing? And I was like, no, 1:16:25.520 --> 1:16:27.120 I think you were fighting a lot because you weren't 1:16:27.120 --> 1:16:29.720 a good fit, not because of timing. And sometimes we 1:16:29.760 --> 1:16:32.680 can get really obsessed with timing. But I think that, 1:16:33.160 --> 1:16:36.000 like you know, in behavioral science, so much is the environment. 1:16:36.360 --> 1:16:38.439 It's like, if the environment that you're dating in is 1:16:38.439 --> 1:16:41.759 that they're not ready, Well, that means that you shouldn't 1:16:41.760 --> 1:16:42.600 be in a relationship. 1:16:59.320 --> 1:17:01.280 Do people relationships too fast? 1:17:01.320 --> 1:17:04.360 Now, yes, I think that people give up too easily. 1:17:04.400 --> 1:17:06.400 This is what we were talking about. So remember there's 1:17:06.400 --> 1:17:09.080 the work at out mindset, the idea that, of course 1:17:09.160 --> 1:17:12.400 relationships take effort, and so when you hit that inevitable 1:17:12.479 --> 1:17:16.120 rough spot, don't say, well, we disagreed on this, so 1:17:16.240 --> 1:17:18.439 instead of having a hard conversation, I'll just end it. 1:17:18.800 --> 1:17:20.640 And that really goes back to the ethos of what 1:17:20.640 --> 1:17:26.400 we've been talking about, Like, understand that relationships require inconvenience, discomfort, friction, 1:17:26.880 --> 1:17:29.240 and so when you have that first fight, say wow, 1:17:30.280 --> 1:17:32.760 I guess you feel really strongly about that, and let's 1:17:32.760 --> 1:17:35.439 have a conversation about it, versus being like, this is 1:17:35.520 --> 1:17:38.759 too much work. And so I would say, yes, dating 1:17:38.760 --> 1:17:41.920 apps provide more options to meet more people, but don't 1:17:41.960 --> 1:17:45.080 treat people like their disposable because that's just a recipe 1:17:45.160 --> 1:17:48.599 for sort of burning and churning relationships. And really understand 1:17:48.600 --> 1:17:51.719 that each relationship is an opportunity to invest in someone. 1:17:52.080 --> 1:17:54.080 Yeah, and it goes back to what you were saying 1:17:54.080 --> 1:17:57.760 earlier about moving towards the workout mindsets. You mentioned like 1:17:57.920 --> 1:18:01.120 just it's almost like you're getting to practice what a 1:18:01.160 --> 1:18:05.160 real relationship looks like, and that first difficult moment is 1:18:05.280 --> 1:18:07.840 like this brilliant moment to actually realize what skills you 1:18:07.840 --> 1:18:10.720 do have, what skills you don't have, what attitude that 1:18:10.760 --> 1:18:13.840 person's willing to come at. I was wondering, I love 1:18:13.880 --> 1:18:16.080 that you have such I mean, your advice logan is 1:18:16.080 --> 1:18:19.000 so brilliant, and it's no surprise with the incredible work 1:18:19.000 --> 1:18:22.519 that you do online and offline, but I yeah, I 1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:25.240 really mean it. It's so great and it feels so 1:18:25.400 --> 1:18:29.639 real and actionable and genuine to It's not playing a game. 1:18:29.680 --> 1:18:32.799 It's not some manipulation strategy. It's not you know, it's 1:18:32.840 --> 1:18:36.839 really authentic when it comes to evaluating a great date, because, 1:18:36.880 --> 1:18:39.400 as you said, we usually get distracted by the spark. 1:18:40.040 --> 1:18:41.920 If the spark is not there, we're probably not going 1:18:41.960 --> 1:18:44.760 to go out on another date. And if we force 1:18:44.800 --> 1:18:46.280 ourselves to god on a second day and there's no 1:18:46.320 --> 1:18:48.160 spark again, we're probably not going to go on a third. 1:18:48.439 --> 1:18:51.720 I think we have very limited tools to evaluate a 1:18:51.720 --> 1:18:54.360 successful date, but I know you have an approach that 1:18:54.439 --> 1:18:58.080 is far more comprehensive. What should people be asking after 1:18:58.160 --> 1:18:59.320 they go on a date with someone. 1:18:59.800 --> 1:19:01.920 I have this tool called the post date eight and 1:19:01.960 --> 1:19:04.559 these are eight questions to ask yourself after a date. 1:19:04.840 --> 1:19:09.360 And the research behind this is really based on gratitude journals. 1:19:09.680 --> 1:19:12.160 So if every day you have to write down at 1:19:12.160 --> 1:19:14.360 the end of the day five things you were grateful for, 1:19:14.880 --> 1:19:17.439 it changes how you live your life because throughout the 1:19:17.560 --> 1:19:20.599 day you're looking for those salt things and you're appreciating them, 1:19:20.680 --> 1:19:23.080 right like I made the bus when I almost could 1:19:23.080 --> 1:19:25.479 have missed it, or it was really sunny and I 1:19:25.520 --> 1:19:27.920 got a table outside. So it trains your brand to 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:30.519 look for the positives, and the same thing is true 1:19:30.560 --> 1:19:33.280 with this post date eight. So these are eight questions 1:19:33.280 --> 1:19:36.000 that you ask yourself after a date, and they are 1:19:36.000 --> 1:19:39.240 things like what side of me did the person bring out? 1:19:39.520 --> 1:19:41.559 How did I feel in my body around them? Did 1:19:41.600 --> 1:19:45.479 I feel relaxed or did I feel uptight? Did I 1:19:45.520 --> 1:19:49.400 feel heard? Did I feel attractive? Did they make me laugh? 1:19:49.840 --> 1:19:52.840 And what's really important is that these questions are not 1:19:53.000 --> 1:19:55.120 are they good enough for me? Is he hot enough? 1:19:55.160 --> 1:19:56.679 Does she have an impressive enough job? 1:19:56.760 --> 1:19:56.960 There? 1:19:57.439 --> 1:19:59.800 Who am I around them? And it goes back to 1:19:59.840 --> 1:20:03.360 what we've said about dating for the dynamic versus dating 1:20:03.400 --> 1:20:08.960 for the resume. And so there's this idea of dating experientially, 1:20:09.439 --> 1:20:13.360 what is the experience of being around you versus dating evaluatively, 1:20:13.920 --> 1:20:15.720 dating to see if you're good enough for me? 1:20:16.680 --> 1:20:20.439 Yeah, it's it's almost like you're either testing them or 1:20:20.479 --> 1:20:23.160 you're getting carried away. And what you're saying is that 1:20:23.240 --> 1:20:27.000 the evaluation eight questions allow you to check in on 1:20:27.040 --> 1:20:29.640 yourself and see how do I feel like, how is 1:20:29.680 --> 1:20:32.160 this going? And how is this for real? Is what 1:20:32.240 --> 1:20:34.960 it feels like being together rather than what it feels 1:20:35.000 --> 1:20:38.280 like being with their resume, being with their data, being 1:20:38.360 --> 1:20:40.800 with you know, And so yeah, we're either testing them, 1:20:40.840 --> 1:20:42.160 like are they good enough for me? Are they not? 1:20:42.240 --> 1:20:45.439 Are they good enough for my friends? Or sometimes we're 1:20:45.479 --> 1:20:47.040 just so lost in our own world of like will 1:20:47.040 --> 1:20:49.160 they like me? Do they like me? Right, we're in 1:20:49.160 --> 1:20:52.000 that opposite space. If am I good enough to hesitate. 1:20:51.680 --> 1:20:54.639 It, it's not did I find them attractive? It's did 1:20:54.680 --> 1:20:57.320 I feel attractive around them? I feel like that's such 1:20:57.320 --> 1:21:00.360 a big shift for people. And going back to three, 1:21:00.360 --> 1:21:03.519 miss of the spark, So many times people miss an 1:21:03.560 --> 1:21:07.600 amazing person because they're not sparky and so my antidote 1:21:07.680 --> 1:21:09.880 to the spark is to look for the slow burn, 1:21:10.280 --> 1:21:12.360 and the slow burn is the person who may not 1:21:12.479 --> 1:21:16.000 be initially as charismatic or sparky, but they would be 1:21:16.080 --> 1:21:18.840 an amazing partner long term. I think this is one 1:21:18.880 --> 1:21:22.000 of the greatest contributions I've had to the discourse. Is 1:21:22.040 --> 1:21:24.080 I get so many emails from people that are like, 1:21:24.360 --> 1:21:26.840 I followed what you said, I looked for the slow burn. 1:21:26.880 --> 1:21:29.519 I'm engaged with slow burn, and I'm so happy this 1:21:29.560 --> 1:21:31.800 is the kind of guy I would have overlooked. And 1:21:32.120 --> 1:21:35.439 way to use the post date eight is to do 1:21:35.560 --> 1:21:38.240 it after each date and to see over time do 1:21:38.320 --> 1:21:41.080 I like them more and more? Because the sparky people 1:21:41.160 --> 1:21:44.040 often burn out quickly, and maybe after the third date 1:21:44.120 --> 1:21:46.360 you might say, oh, you know, like it turns out 1:21:46.439 --> 1:21:48.479 he's like a little narcissistic, or we don't really have 1:21:48.520 --> 1:21:51.400 that much to talk about, whereas the slow burn person, 1:21:51.600 --> 1:21:54.360 each time you date them, you were more curious about them, 1:21:54.400 --> 1:21:57.360 you like them more and more. So it's a journaling 1:21:57.400 --> 1:22:00.960 exercise really, to track how you feel with different people 1:22:01.080 --> 1:22:04.080 and if your interest in them grows or decreases over time. 1:22:04.320 --> 1:22:06.679 Yeah, I love that approach. I really hope. I really 1:22:06.680 --> 1:22:09.680 really hope everyone's listening and watching applies that I think 1:22:09.720 --> 1:22:13.080 would change everything for them. Logan, I want to go 1:22:13.160 --> 1:22:15.000 a bit more philosophical with you, a bit more like 1:22:15.120 --> 1:22:18.200 high higher level of like how do you define love? 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:21.080 When you ask the question, I got a really strong 1:22:21.080 --> 1:22:24.439 internal feeling where I just heard the word acceptance, and 1:22:24.439 --> 1:22:26.160 I think it reminds me of what you said about 1:22:26.200 --> 1:22:28.760 you and Roddy, where she really accepts you for who 1:22:28.920 --> 1:22:31.640 you are and you don't feel judgment. And when I 1:22:31.680 --> 1:22:34.000 think about the people that love me, I think about 1:22:34.560 --> 1:22:38.799 my parents, my sister, some of my best friends, my husband, 1:22:38.920 --> 1:22:42.560 my daughter, where it's like you're not under the microscope. 1:22:42.640 --> 1:22:44.800 They're not deciding like do I want to see you 1:22:44.840 --> 1:22:48.160 again or not. They're really just like I love you 1:22:48.439 --> 1:22:51.760 in all your messiness. And I remember one time I 1:22:51.800 --> 1:22:53.559 was talking to my friend Kristen and I was like, 1:22:54.120 --> 1:22:56.720 you know, sometimes i'm a little avoidant when I have 1:22:56.760 --> 1:22:58.920 a hard situation. She's like, duh, we all know that, 1:22:59.360 --> 1:23:01.360 and like I got embarrassed, but I was like what 1:23:01.400 --> 1:23:04.000 she's saying is like I see you in your shadow 1:23:04.080 --> 1:23:06.599 and your light, and I love you for all. 1:23:06.439 --> 1:23:07.280 Of those things. 1:23:07.640 --> 1:23:10.800 And I think that acceptance and belonging is really what 1:23:10.920 --> 1:23:13.360 makes us feel safe. And I think one of the 1:23:13.400 --> 1:23:15.400 reasons why I've had the career I've had, which I 1:23:15.439 --> 1:23:17.880 feel really proud of, is because my husband is such 1:23:17.920 --> 1:23:20.400 a rock and I feel so much acceptance from him. 1:23:20.640 --> 1:23:23.200 His love is really unconditional, and like, when you have 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:26.760 this foundation of unconditional love, like you can go fly 1:23:27.080 --> 1:23:30.040 high and like take a lot of risk and risk 1:23:30.120 --> 1:23:33.560 rejection because like you come home to this really beautiful 1:23:33.640 --> 1:23:37.719 foundation of acceptance. And when people want to find love, 1:23:37.800 --> 1:23:40.240 like I want that for them so badly, because I 1:23:40.320 --> 1:23:42.800 also want them to tuck into their bed at night 1:23:42.880 --> 1:23:46.320 and like have that person that is unconditionally loving them. 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:48.200 And that's really my wish for so many people. 1:23:48.439 --> 1:23:51.719 That's a beautiful Lonsa. I love that is love enough. 1:23:52.280 --> 1:23:55.200 You need love, but it's not enough, so it's required, 1:23:55.240 --> 1:23:58.400 but it's not the only thing. And what you also 1:23:58.520 --> 1:24:02.240 need is sustained effort. And you know, we're at the 1:24:02.280 --> 1:24:05.400 age where a lot of our friends are having young kids, right, 1:24:05.760 --> 1:24:08.400 And I get so many questions from clients of mine, 1:24:08.400 --> 1:24:10.880 close friends of mine, et cetera, where they're like, I 1:24:10.920 --> 1:24:14.600 just don't feel as connected and one of my mentors, 1:24:14.640 --> 1:24:17.080 Eli Finkel, he has this great book called The All 1:24:17.200 --> 1:24:20.160 or Nothing Marriage, and he talks about different times in 1:24:20.200 --> 1:24:23.760 a relationship, and he has this great word recalibration. So 1:24:24.160 --> 1:24:27.759 sometimes if someone's dealing with a hard situation at work, 1:24:27.880 --> 1:24:31.160 or a difficult moment with their parents, or you know, 1:24:31.240 --> 1:24:34.400 having young kids at home, you have to recalibrate your expectations, 1:24:34.439 --> 1:24:36.200 like maybe it's not going to be the most fun 1:24:36.280 --> 1:24:38.200 year of your marriage. Maybe you're going to have sex 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:40.479 a little less often, maybe you're going to fight a 1:24:40.479 --> 1:24:43.960 little bit more. So recalibrate your expectations in those hard 1:24:44.000 --> 1:24:47.680 moments instead of like exiting, just understand that it's going 1:24:47.720 --> 1:24:49.760 to be a slightly bumpier ride. And so I think 1:24:49.800 --> 1:24:54.479 that true relationships last through some really hard years, sometimes 1:24:54.479 --> 1:24:57.360 some infidelity, and that love is enough to get you 1:24:57.400 --> 1:24:59.679 into relationship, but it's not enough to keep. 1:24:59.479 --> 1:25:02.559 You in it. I love the recalibration and it's so 1:25:02.800 --> 1:25:07.280 fascinating how we think things should stay the same through 1:25:07.360 --> 1:25:11.240 all this change. Right, most of us want our relationship 1:25:11.280 --> 1:25:14.160 to stay exactly the same, no matter how much change 1:25:14.160 --> 1:25:18.040 we're going through, whether that's moving country, changing job, having 1:25:18.040 --> 1:25:21.519 a child, all these major transitions in life which naturally 1:25:21.680 --> 1:25:26.519 require us to re establish what our connection pattern is, 1:25:26.640 --> 1:25:29.240 what are the amount of time we spend together is 1:25:29.280 --> 1:25:30.720 all of that, And all of a sudden we just 1:25:30.800 --> 1:25:32.439 throw out the window and say, well, if you love me, 1:25:32.920 --> 1:25:34.720 it should be this way, it should be this way 1:25:34.760 --> 1:25:37.719 always and forever. But how would that even be possible. 1:25:37.760 --> 1:25:41.400 It's fascinating that it's perplexing that were that way, But 1:25:41.400 --> 1:25:44.599 it's fascinating too that we think things staying the same 1:25:44.760 --> 1:25:45.559 is a sign of love. 1:25:46.200 --> 1:25:49.920 Absolutely, And there's a great behavioral science principle for this, 1:25:49.920 --> 1:25:53.559 this transitive fallacy where we sort of think the way 1:25:53.600 --> 1:25:55.599 that it feels when something changes is the way it'll 1:25:55.600 --> 1:25:58.040 feel forever. So we think that falling in love is 1:25:58.080 --> 1:25:59.960 the same as being in love, but it's totally differ 1:26:00.479 --> 1:26:02.840 It goes back to adaptation, right, We adapt to the 1:26:02.840 --> 1:26:05.800 things around us. So winning the lottery will feel good 1:26:05.800 --> 1:26:08.040 for a certain period of time, and then you know, 1:26:08.120 --> 1:26:10.920 being wealthy is a different state. And so if you're 1:26:10.920 --> 1:26:13.760 in a relationship and it doesn't feel as intense as 1:26:13.800 --> 1:26:17.240 when you first fell in love, that's the natural cycle. 1:26:17.479 --> 1:26:20.120 And if you just keep being a person that breaks 1:26:20.200 --> 1:26:22.680 up and searches for that falling in love again, you're 1:26:22.720 --> 1:26:24.200 sort of missing the bigger picture. 1:26:25.400 --> 1:26:28.519 I lost one of these what makes a good partner? 1:26:28.920 --> 1:26:30.760 I think there's so many things that go into being 1:26:30.760 --> 1:26:32.680 a good partner. So I just talked about love is 1:26:32.720 --> 1:26:36.599 being accepted, So I think accepting your partner. Sometimes people 1:26:36.640 --> 1:26:38.559 are like, do you think people change? And I think 1:26:38.600 --> 1:26:41.000 my answer is sometimes they change, sometimes they don't. But 1:26:41.040 --> 1:26:44.080 you can't be with someone for their potential because what 1:26:44.160 --> 1:26:45.960 if they never change. You need to accept them for 1:26:46.000 --> 1:26:48.240 who they are now, and they probably will change, but 1:26:48.600 --> 1:26:52.240 that's not a guarantee. I think communication. It's a cliche, 1:26:52.280 --> 1:26:54.960 but it's true. There's kind of this joke that like 1:26:55.120 --> 1:26:57.720 the answer to every advice column is always like, have 1:26:57.760 --> 1:27:01.680 a conversation? What should I do with my neighbor who 1:27:01.720 --> 1:27:03.920 plays music? It's like, have a conversation? What should I 1:27:04.000 --> 1:27:06.960 with my mother in law she shows up without being invited? 1:27:07.000 --> 1:27:09.720 Have a conversation? Is like yes, Like conversations are what 1:27:09.840 --> 1:27:14.920 keep relationships alive. Yeah, And going back to chalant dating, 1:27:15.680 --> 1:27:18.760 I saw this stat that was like ninety percent of 1:27:18.840 --> 1:27:21.880 women like what they really want is not to go 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:24.960 to an expensive restaurant and not how much money the 1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:27.640 guys spent on the date, but really how invested in 1:27:27.640 --> 1:27:30.200 the conversation is he? And so I think communication is 1:27:30.240 --> 1:27:32.839 a huge one. And then I think the growth mindset 1:27:32.880 --> 1:27:37.000 that really encompasses a lot. It's like life changes, you'll change. 1:27:37.360 --> 1:27:39.519 Do we feel like we're a team and we're on 1:27:39.560 --> 1:27:42.360 the same side and we're working together towards the life 1:27:42.400 --> 1:27:45.559 we want, or we adversaries that are in opposite sides 1:27:45.600 --> 1:27:48.559 of the pickleball court and when you win, when you 1:27:48.600 --> 1:27:50.639 win and you go away with your friends, I lose 1:27:50.680 --> 1:27:52.519 because I have to stay home with our kid and 1:27:52.560 --> 1:27:54.680 instead it's like we over me. 1:27:55.479 --> 1:27:57.519 How do you know if you're asking for too much? 1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:01.920 There's a big difference between settling where you feel like 1:28:02.000 --> 1:28:04.280 you have these deal breakers that are really important to 1:28:04.320 --> 1:28:09.040 you and you're not getting them met, and satisficing, which 1:28:09.080 --> 1:28:11.320 is understanding that you should double down on the things 1:28:11.320 --> 1:28:13.720 that matter and compromise on the rest. So let me 1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:15.920 get a little bit more specific. And I actually wanted 1:28:15.960 --> 1:28:18.240 to answer this before when you were talking about, you know, 1:28:18.280 --> 1:28:22.240 the things that matter and don't matter. So as people 1:28:22.320 --> 1:28:24.799 get older, especially and you know, I have this Netflix 1:28:24.800 --> 1:28:27.479 show The Later Daters, and it's Daters over fifty five 1:28:27.560 --> 1:28:29.960 and so like, I have just seen this so much. 1:28:30.080 --> 1:28:32.160 The older you get, the more you add to your 1:28:32.200 --> 1:28:34.679 list because you're like, I've waited this long, she better 1:28:34.720 --> 1:28:37.639 be perfect. And so what happens is we confuse pet 1:28:37.680 --> 1:28:40.479 peeves for deal breakers. So what pet peeve would be 1:28:40.560 --> 1:28:44.280 something like, I'll date anyone except a mouth breather. It's like, 1:28:44.400 --> 1:28:48.200 come on, like mouth breathing that's not correlated with relationships 1:28:48.240 --> 1:28:51.920 satisfaction or not satisfaction. It's like something that maybe annoys you, 1:28:51.960 --> 1:28:53.200 but it's not that big of a deal. Or like 1:28:53.520 --> 1:28:54.640 socks with sandals. 1:28:54.640 --> 1:28:57.040 So it's like, well, even being six foot total, oh 1:28:57.080 --> 1:28:57.639 my gosh. 1:28:57.720 --> 1:28:57.920 Yeah. 1:28:57.960 --> 1:28:59.760 I could go on a whole tangent about height, which 1:28:59.800 --> 1:29:02.559 is essentially like many women filter out men who are 1:29:02.600 --> 1:29:05.000 six feet you know, they want a man who's six 1:29:05.040 --> 1:29:08.120 feet are taller, but eighty six percent of adult men 1:29:08.160 --> 1:29:11.439 in the US are under six feet. Wow, so you're 1:29:11.520 --> 1:29:15.200 excluding eighty six percent of possible matches over something that 1:29:15.280 --> 1:29:18.200 does not matter for long term relationship satisfaction. And so 1:29:19.080 --> 1:29:21.000 you know, going back to pet peece and deal breakers, 1:29:21.040 --> 1:29:23.000 the first thing I would do is make a list 1:29:23.040 --> 1:29:25.559 of what you think your pet peeves are what you 1:29:25.720 --> 1:29:28.040 think your deal breakers are, what your must haves are, 1:29:28.320 --> 1:29:31.200 and then truly think if I didn't have this thing, 1:29:31.680 --> 1:29:34.000 would it matter long term? So oh, I need a 1:29:34.000 --> 1:29:36.120 guy with a good sense of style. It's like, do 1:29:36.200 --> 1:29:40.200 you can you take him shopping? Like who cares? Versus 1:29:40.200 --> 1:29:43.439 something like I have asthma and I need a non smoker. 1:29:43.560 --> 1:29:45.960 Going back to religion, you know, for you, maybe it 1:29:46.000 --> 1:29:48.160 wasn't just the religion piece, but for some people, if 1:29:48.160 --> 1:29:50.000 they're religious or they want to raise their kids in 1:29:50.040 --> 1:29:52.120 that faith, it is a deal breaker. So kind of 1:29:52.160 --> 1:29:54.360 go through each one and try to move things to 1:29:54.400 --> 1:29:58.519 the pet peeves category, and then when you're dating, go 1:29:58.760 --> 1:30:01.280 really hard on those deal breakers and be true to yourself, 1:30:01.520 --> 1:30:04.000 but be more flexible on the pet peeves because they 1:30:04.040 --> 1:30:04.639 don't matter. 1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:08.240 Yeah, those icks. Have you ever seen the guy on 1:30:08.280 --> 1:30:11.160 TikTok called Guy with the List? No, okay, so check 1:30:11.200 --> 1:30:14.040 it out. I have no affiliation, but I'm such a fan. 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:17.360 So what he does is he finds videos of women 1:30:17.400 --> 1:30:19.920 on the internet that say they have an ick or 1:30:20.040 --> 1:30:22.479 they have something they don't like about men, and then 1:30:22.479 --> 1:30:25.000 he adds it to his list to not do that thing. 1:30:25.640 --> 1:30:28.439 So it's so fat it's genius. 1:30:27.960 --> 1:30:30.040 And so I feel like our friend Jared Fried is 1:30:30.080 --> 1:30:31.080 kind of like the king. 1:30:30.960 --> 1:30:32.920 Of the ick? Is it in what sense? Going? I 1:30:32.960 --> 1:30:33.400 love Jared? 1:30:33.400 --> 1:30:33.599 Oh? 1:30:33.640 --> 1:30:35.880 He has so many viral videos where he's like, I 1:30:36.040 --> 1:30:39.240 ask audience members why they rejected a guy, and they 1:30:39.240 --> 1:30:41.160 were like, I really liked him. I was going to 1:30:41.200 --> 1:30:43.280 go home with him, but then he went to pay 1:30:43.320 --> 1:30:46.360 the bill and I heard this is and it's the 1:30:46.400 --> 1:30:48.639 sound of somebody opening a Velker wallet. 1:30:48.960 --> 1:30:51.120 That's so great. Yeah, that's exactly it. These are some 1:30:51.160 --> 1:30:52.960 of these even worse. I haven't I haven't checked. 1:30:53.320 --> 1:30:55.280 I mean to be an alarmist, but it's important to 1:30:55.320 --> 1:30:57.559 stay vigilant. A few weeks ago, I met this guy 1:30:57.600 --> 1:30:59.920 out at a bar. He seemed normal, his friends seemed 1:31:00.320 --> 1:31:02.720 so I went home with him. The next day, I 1:31:02.800 --> 1:31:04.960 was leaving and he said, oh, I'll walk you to 1:31:05.040 --> 1:31:08.559 the train station. I'm leaving as well, and out of nowhere, 1:31:08.600 --> 1:31:13.000 he just nonchalantly grabs his roller blades and a speaker. 1:31:16.280 --> 1:31:20.479 So then what he does is he takes it such 1:31:20.520 --> 1:31:22.760 a good bed. And so his list has everything from 1:31:23.000 --> 1:31:27.240 don't wear goggles, yeah, don't leave an event early, have 1:31:27.360 --> 1:31:30.880 a different font, having a birthdays in it, Like it's just. 1:31:30.880 --> 1:31:32.640 That's so funny. 1:31:32.960 --> 1:31:34.840 I don't like the new it. It's just so random. 1:31:34.840 --> 1:31:36.439 And I know people hate when people do its, and 1:31:36.479 --> 1:31:38.880 it's like, how do we get they that that's so ridiculous. 1:31:39.240 --> 1:31:41.120 I don't know if anyone ever said this one before, 1:31:41.640 --> 1:31:46.439 but like when a lad has a birthday, like what 1:31:46.600 --> 1:31:48.120 do you just be like, oh, happy. 1:31:47.840 --> 1:31:50.280 Birthday, Oh my god. I could literally talk about this 1:31:50.360 --> 1:31:53.240 with you for hours because it's like, of course there's 1:31:53.240 --> 1:31:56.280 like a sense of humor. I mean, first hilarious talk 1:31:56.560 --> 1:31:59.559 is so funny. So many people are so hilarious, like 1:31:59.600 --> 1:32:01.920 that girl nail the delivery of like you know, I 1:32:02.040 --> 1:32:05.639 after rollerblader, a roller skater and like a performative one. 1:32:06.000 --> 1:32:08.200 But like it kind of goes back to the earlier 1:32:08.240 --> 1:32:11.839 part of our conversation around men and like the script 1:32:11.840 --> 1:32:14.280 that they follow, because it's like a lot of women 1:32:14.320 --> 1:32:16.040 are saying I make money, so I don't care as 1:32:16.120 --> 1:32:17.880 much if you make money. I want you to be 1:32:17.920 --> 1:32:20.800 more emotionally available. I want you to be vulnerable. But 1:32:20.840 --> 1:32:24.200 then they also sort of get punished when they are, 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:27.479 and I think that that's just because we haven't really 1:32:27.520 --> 1:32:30.920 figured out what masculinity looks like in this age, and 1:32:30.960 --> 1:32:34.840 it's like, why is having a birthday embarrassing? Like why 1:32:34.840 --> 1:32:37.080 can't like a thirty two year old guy like throw 1:32:37.120 --> 1:32:39.439 a birthday party? Why would that be cringe? And So, 1:32:39.920 --> 1:32:41.800 I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on the ICK, 1:32:41.880 --> 1:32:43.760 but maybe just the one that I'll say is that 1:32:44.160 --> 1:32:47.280 are you using the ick to push people away because 1:32:47.320 --> 1:32:49.120 you're afraid of being in a relationship and it just 1:32:49.120 --> 1:32:51.360 gives you a reason to reject someone and not get 1:32:51.400 --> 1:32:51.920 close to them. 1:32:52.240 --> 1:32:54.360 Yeah, I mean that statistic on height just blew my mind. 1:32:54.400 --> 1:32:57.320 I did not realize that that you're cutting out eighty 1:32:57.360 --> 1:32:59.160 six percent of adult men. Oh my god, in the 1:32:59.240 --> 1:33:00.559 United States. It's insane. 1:33:00.640 --> 1:33:02.680 The hi thing drives me crazy because, first of all, 1:33:02.720 --> 1:33:04.960 I am married to a short king and I'm very 1:33:04.960 --> 1:33:08.040 happy about it. But also it's like, you know, if 1:33:08.080 --> 1:33:10.040 you were at a bar and you're sitting at a 1:33:10.040 --> 1:33:12.360 stool next to someone and you lock eyes and you 1:33:12.400 --> 1:33:15.080 have an amazing conversation and you talk about your hopes 1:33:15.120 --> 1:33:17.880 and dreams and then the guy stands up and he's 1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:19.960 five eight or five to nine. Are you not going 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:22.240 to give him your number? No, you are, because you 1:33:22.320 --> 1:33:25.120 had a vibe, you had a connection. But if you 1:33:25.200 --> 1:33:28.800 think about Hinge as kind of your club and your 1:33:28.880 --> 1:33:32.200 filters as the bouncers deciding who gets into your club 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:38.040 or not. When you set really stringent filters on height, age, distance, 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:41.439 you're really blocking so many people from coming into your club. 1:33:41.479 --> 1:33:42.840 And then you're going up to people like me and 1:33:42.880 --> 1:33:45.160 you and saying, where's my husband, where's my wife? I 1:33:45.320 --> 1:33:47.200 can't find them. It's like, yeah, cause they're all waiting 1:33:47.240 --> 1:33:48.760 in line. And the bouncer rejected that. 1:33:49.000 --> 1:33:52.240 Yeah yeah, so well said, we have two segments to 1:33:52.360 --> 1:33:54.920 end today's episode with you. We've invented a game for 1:33:54.960 --> 1:33:57.639 you called dis ord that and this is for you, 1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:01.639 so we'll play that one first. This or that someone 1:34:01.680 --> 1:34:04.840 who loves you more or someone you love more. 1:34:05.640 --> 1:34:07.920 I think I want to love them a lot, but 1:34:07.920 --> 1:34:09.519 it's okay if they love me a little bit. 1:34:09.479 --> 1:34:13.320 More than I love them, Okay. Marry your best friend 1:34:13.800 --> 1:34:16.120 or someone you feel wild passionate for. 1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:19.240 Ideal, like for a lot of eas I'm like ideally both, 1:34:19.360 --> 1:34:21.800 but it's like I think the best friendship is going 1:34:21.840 --> 1:34:23.840 to last longer, but like you need to want to 1:34:23.880 --> 1:34:25.719 have sex with them, So I would say best friend, 1:34:25.760 --> 1:34:28.240 but want to have sex, and like most people don't 1:34:28.240 --> 1:34:30.960 marry the person they had the best sex within their life, 1:34:31.000 --> 1:34:34.479 Like the most passionate relationship is sometimes because there's a 1:34:34.479 --> 1:34:37.280 little bit of like will she or won't she? And 1:34:37.360 --> 1:34:40.120 I would say if you're looking for like long term partnership, 1:34:40.160 --> 1:34:42.280 like best friend is like a safer bet. 1:34:42.200 --> 1:34:44.920 Yep, good answers, all right, stay in a good enough 1:34:44.960 --> 1:34:48.439 relationship or risk being single for a long time waiting 1:34:48.439 --> 1:34:48.880 for great. 1:34:49.479 --> 1:34:52.040 Sorry to be so like, but I think it matters 1:34:52.040 --> 1:34:54.040 who you are. If you're a person who often leaves 1:34:54.120 --> 1:34:57.040 relationships what I call a ditcher because you're a maximiz 1:34:57.080 --> 1:34:59.120 when you're looking for something better than I would say, like, 1:34:59.200 --> 1:35:02.240 invest in that reallyationship and make it great. But if 1:35:02.240 --> 1:35:05.120 you're a person that really settles and like always kind 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:07.960 of accepts the crumbs, then see what it's like to 1:35:08.000 --> 1:35:10.160 be single and really go after the whole cookie. 1:35:10.880 --> 1:35:13.080 Your answer is great, So yeah, I'm happy with what 1:35:13.080 --> 1:35:17.960 you're doing. Shared life goals, but mismatched love languages or 1:35:18.000 --> 1:35:21.320 perfect love languages match, but different visions for the future. 1:35:21.760 --> 1:35:24.400 I think love languages are kind of ridiculous and overrated, 1:35:24.439 --> 1:35:27.439 Like they help people, and I think they're useful as 1:35:27.479 --> 1:35:31.479 something to point to, but like they're not scientifically backed. Like, 1:35:31.560 --> 1:35:33.720 let's just talk about what love languages are, because like 1:35:33.800 --> 1:35:35.960 they've kind of become so pervasive in our culture with 1:35:35.960 --> 1:35:38.520 people wearing shirts that say like taco is my love language. 1:35:38.680 --> 1:35:41.920 So the love language is your preferred way of receiving love, 1:35:42.280 --> 1:35:44.160 and so it kind of helps you say to your husband, 1:35:44.640 --> 1:35:47.679 I don't care about gifts. I care about quality time. 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:51.720 Like for me, for Christmas, my husband said, like, make 1:35:51.760 --> 1:35:53.800 a list of what you want, and I asked him 1:35:53.800 --> 1:35:57.280 for five conversations that were each two hours. And I 1:35:57.320 --> 1:35:59.439 know it's like sounds so crazy, but like it that's 1:35:59.439 --> 1:36:01.280 what I wanted. I was like, I want a conversation 1:36:01.320 --> 1:36:03.800 about our housing for the future. I want a conversation 1:36:03.880 --> 1:36:08.000 around my health. I want a conversation around parenting. And 1:36:08.080 --> 1:36:09.880 like maybe it sounds silly and people would be like, 1:36:09.920 --> 1:36:11.200 why did you have to ask for that. It's like 1:36:11.439 --> 1:36:13.280 cause we're parents of a young kid and we work 1:36:13.320 --> 1:36:15.120 a lot at my husband commute. It's like we don't 1:36:15.160 --> 1:36:17.560 have two hour quality time conversations all the time, Like 1:36:17.600 --> 1:36:20.519 we don't even have them that often, and so what 1:36:20.640 --> 1:36:22.960 I wanted was to have that quality time. 1:36:23.280 --> 1:36:24.360 I didn't want. 1:36:24.680 --> 1:36:28.439 Gifts, and so love languages are a helpful way to 1:36:28.560 --> 1:36:30.320 kind of show what matters to you. But like, you 1:36:30.360 --> 1:36:34.080 don't have to have aligned love languages like one hundred percent, 1:36:34.160 --> 1:36:37.320 like shared vision for the future matters much more than 1:36:37.400 --> 1:36:39.240 this thing that is kind of a shortcut to say, 1:36:39.240 --> 1:36:40.719 like this is what makes me feel valued. 1:36:40.880 --> 1:36:42.400 I just want to underline what you just said as 1:36:42.439 --> 1:36:45.719 well that I actually think you do have to ask 1:36:45.800 --> 1:36:49.800 and set aside time for very important conversations, especially when 1:36:49.800 --> 1:36:51.920 you've been together for a long time, because your day 1:36:51.960 --> 1:36:55.000 to day becomes your conversation and it give me great connection, 1:36:55.200 --> 1:36:57.760 and you can be having fun every day, but you 1:36:58.040 --> 1:37:00.280 almost don't ever sit down and do that fun call 1:37:00.280 --> 1:37:02.280 a conversation that you did when you started dating, or 1:37:02.320 --> 1:37:05.920 you don't do that three hours dinner when you're with someone, 1:37:05.960 --> 1:37:08.680 And so I think I fully agree with you on 1:37:08.840 --> 1:37:12.400 having to outline and ask for specific conversations, especially if 1:37:12.400 --> 1:37:14.840 it's really important to you and it's not something that 1:37:14.880 --> 1:37:17.559 you're just willing to also just throw into someone When 1:37:17.560 --> 1:37:19.479 you both just got back from work, put your baby 1:37:19.479 --> 1:37:22.160 to bed, and you're both exhausted, it's not possible to 1:37:22.200 --> 1:37:24.080 go on that Thursday night and say, hey, can we 1:37:24.120 --> 1:37:26.479 just talk about the finances tonight? Like that's going to 1:37:26.520 --> 1:37:28.200 maybe throw the other person off as well. 1:37:28.520 --> 1:37:30.400 Yeah, I would have to say, like that was a 1:37:30.400 --> 1:37:32.680 great gift, And some of my friends have like copied it, 1:37:32.720 --> 1:37:34.920 They've asked their partners for that for their birthday. And 1:37:34.960 --> 1:37:37.000 I'm like, I think this could be a thing because 1:37:37.040 --> 1:37:40.160 it's like it's awkward to say, can we spend ninety 1:37:40.240 --> 1:37:42.320 minutes talking about my health? And can I like talk 1:37:42.360 --> 1:37:43.880 to you about my orr ring and this and that? 1:37:44.160 --> 1:37:47.040 But like I want that time and that's what I 1:37:47.080 --> 1:37:49.640 as a busy parent, as a mom, like that's what 1:37:49.720 --> 1:37:51.720 I was looking for. And I feel like that was 1:37:51.760 --> 1:37:54.160 so much more enriching to me than like, you know, 1:37:54.280 --> 1:37:55.519 some red light mask. 1:37:55.840 --> 1:37:59.400 Yeah, okay, last one of these. Date someone who feels 1:37:59.439 --> 1:38:03.720 safe but doesn't challenge you, or date someone who challenges 1:38:03.760 --> 1:38:05.960 you but sometimes triggers you. Hmmm. 1:38:06.680 --> 1:38:09.360 I think you have to feel safe, like that is 1:38:09.400 --> 1:38:12.759 a must have because someone should really feel like home, 1:38:12.760 --> 1:38:15.040 they should feel like that foundation, so you need it. 1:38:15.479 --> 1:38:17.879 I think trigger kind of going back to like boundaries 1:38:17.880 --> 1:38:19.320 and self care, it just kind of become like a 1:38:19.360 --> 1:38:21.640 little bit overblown in our culture. So I would say, like, 1:38:21.960 --> 1:38:24.400 investigate that more. What does trigger you mean? Does it 1:38:24.479 --> 1:38:26.760 mean that like sometimes they challenge you, or does it 1:38:26.800 --> 1:38:29.160 mean like that they don't respect you, or that they 1:38:29.320 --> 1:38:31.479 remind you of like an abusive relationship you're in. So 1:38:31.479 --> 1:38:34.640 I would say safety and foundation is like a must have, 1:38:35.240 --> 1:38:38.640 but then investigate is this healthy discomfort or is this 1:38:38.720 --> 1:38:39.720 unhealthy discomfort? 1:38:40.640 --> 1:38:44.280 Logan, You've been amazing to talk to. I've learned so much. 1:38:44.320 --> 1:38:45.800 I think our audience is going to get so much 1:38:45.880 --> 1:38:48.080 value from this. I'm so excited for everyone to go 1:38:48.080 --> 1:38:51.040 to logan uri dot com then actually take the quiz 1:38:51.120 --> 1:38:52.840 so that they can figure out where they land. I 1:38:52.880 --> 1:38:55.840 think doing the quiz myself and even breaking it down 1:38:55.880 --> 1:38:58.519 with you today, and I kept in the interview everyone 1:38:58.520 --> 1:39:01.679 will hear me keep getting well. That sounds like exercise rates. 1:39:01.920 --> 1:39:04.679 It's so usable in everyday life, and I think it's 1:39:04.680 --> 1:39:07.639 going to help people really recognize what's blocking them at 1:39:07.680 --> 1:39:10.760 the root, rather than just hey, you're just distracted or 1:39:10.760 --> 1:39:13.760 whatever it may be. We end every episode of On 1:39:13.800 --> 1:39:16.280 Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be 1:39:16.320 --> 1:39:19.719 answered in one word or one sentence maximum one sentence 1:39:19.800 --> 1:39:22.920 most likely, so logan Uri. These are your final five. 1:39:23.240 --> 1:39:25.719 The first question is what is the best love advice 1:39:25.840 --> 1:39:27.040 You've ever heard or received? 1:39:27.240 --> 1:39:29.920 The best love advice I've ever heard or received is 1:39:30.040 --> 1:39:30.920 love is a verb. 1:39:31.439 --> 1:39:35.160 It's a good answer. I agreed. What is the worst 1:39:35.320 --> 1:39:37.080 love advice you've ever heard or received? 1:39:37.479 --> 1:39:40.240 The worst love advice that I've heard, this is really 1:39:40.240 --> 1:39:43.559 big on Reddit, is when people have very strict rules 1:39:43.600 --> 1:39:47.800 where it's like, if he asks this question, never see 1:39:47.840 --> 1:39:50.639 him again. If he doesn't pay, never see him again. 1:39:50.680 --> 1:39:52.880 So I think the worst love advice is when you 1:39:52.920 --> 1:39:55.599 have really strict rules that are not based in like 1:39:55.640 --> 1:39:58.160 the research or science of what actually matters in dating. 1:39:58.360 --> 1:40:03.240 It's a great answer. Question number three, is love blind? No? 1:40:04.439 --> 1:40:05.599 Do you want to? You can explain. 1:40:06.160 --> 1:40:08.680 I mean, I think nine seasons of the show has 1:40:08.680 --> 1:40:10.320 shown us that love is not blind. 1:40:11.080 --> 1:40:15.760 It's a great answer for sure. Question number four, what's 1:40:15.800 --> 1:40:19.240 something you used to believe was true about love but 1:40:19.400 --> 1:40:21.240 now you actually realize it isn't. 1:40:21.439 --> 1:40:22.880 I think I'll go back to what we talked about 1:40:22.880 --> 1:40:26.320 with timing, which is I used to believe that love 1:40:26.360 --> 1:40:28.960 to sort of overcome any timing, and now I believe 1:40:29.000 --> 1:40:33.280 that timing is a big element of whether or not 1:40:33.320 --> 1:40:34.040 you're the right fit. 1:40:34.400 --> 1:40:37.000 Yeah. Yeah, it's such a It's weird, isn't it, Because 1:40:37.040 --> 1:40:39.040 time is such a funny one because it's almost like 1:40:39.040 --> 1:40:41.599 we're waiting for the perfect time, which I don't think 1:40:41.640 --> 1:40:43.560 is what you're saying, But you're saying the timing of 1:40:43.600 --> 1:40:46.479 where your life is right now is going to let 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:48.200 you know whether you'll find That's a. 1:40:48.200 --> 1:40:49.800 Really good point. So I think a lot of people 1:40:49.840 --> 1:40:54.240 are hesitators where they're waiting to be the perfect person, 1:40:54.320 --> 1:40:56.280 when the truth is you'll never be one hundred percent ready. 1:40:56.280 --> 1:40:58.960 So I'm not talking about that like date before you're ready. 1:40:59.600 --> 1:41:03.000 What I I'm talking about is if you meet someone amazing, 1:41:03.439 --> 1:41:06.760 but your lifestyles don't line up right now, or they 1:41:07.000 --> 1:41:09.680 are in the military and you want to have a 1:41:09.760 --> 1:41:12.320 kid right away, or like all these different situations, it's 1:41:12.320 --> 1:41:15.400 like right person, wrong time is probably wrong person. 1:41:15.840 --> 1:41:17.920 Fifth and final question We asked this every guest who's 1:41:17.920 --> 1:41:20.120 ever been on the show. If you could create one 1:41:20.200 --> 1:41:22.599 law that everyone in the world had to follow, what 1:41:22.600 --> 1:41:23.120 would it be? 1:41:23.360 --> 1:41:27.120 Tell the truth? I think just so often we don't 1:41:27.120 --> 1:41:30.440 tell people how we're feeling. We don't share hard feedback, 1:41:30.840 --> 1:41:33.080 we're not brave and look like there is a time 1:41:33.080 --> 1:41:35.640 and a place for white lives, such as you know, 1:41:35.640 --> 1:41:37.599 when you ask your husband how you look five minutes 1:41:37.600 --> 1:41:39.519 before you're going to his work office party, which my 1:41:39.600 --> 1:41:42.360 husband hasn't gotten the memo on that. But I think 1:41:42.360 --> 1:41:45.799 if we were just all more honest about what we're feeling, 1:41:45.920 --> 1:41:48.760 what we're worrying about, what's going through our mind, we 1:41:48.800 --> 1:41:50.640 would just have much richer relationships. 1:41:50.880 --> 1:41:53.519 Yeah, I think in relationship with especially, I mean you're 1:41:53.520 --> 1:41:56.840 talking about first dates and dinners. And I remember the 1:41:56.840 --> 1:42:00.000 first time I took Radiau. I thought she liked fancy places. 1:42:00.160 --> 1:42:02.320 I took her some. I couldn't even afford a fancy place, 1:42:02.360 --> 1:42:04.160 but I'd saved up and took her out to this 1:42:04.200 --> 1:42:08.559 fancy place. And she literally from the moment we walked in, 1:42:08.560 --> 1:42:10.519 I could tell she wasn't enjoying the experience. And I 1:42:10.560 --> 1:42:12.519 was kind of like, this's a nice place, you know whatever, 1:42:12.520 --> 1:42:13.880 And she just said to me, she goes, you know, 1:42:13.960 --> 1:42:16.639 my ideal day is not being at a fancy restaurant. 1:42:16.720 --> 1:42:21.160 It's being at Tesco's, which is our version of Walmart 1:42:21.240 --> 1:42:23.439 or Target or whatever. And she was like buying some 1:42:23.479 --> 1:42:25.719 bread and cheese, and making some sandwiches like that would 1:42:25.720 --> 1:42:27.880 be my ideal day. And I was like, got it, 1:42:27.920 --> 1:42:29.679 Like I understood it, and like I think the next 1:42:29.760 --> 1:42:31.559 day we like literally went down and walked down the 1:42:31.560 --> 1:42:33.760 grocery al and bought bread and cheese and went And 1:42:33.840 --> 1:42:36.120 it was just to me, it was so useful to 1:42:36.160 --> 1:42:38.000 have that early on because I knew I liked RUDDI 1:42:38.240 --> 1:42:40.360 I didn't care whether we were at a fancy restaurant 1:42:40.479 --> 1:42:42.479 or not. And I think if she hadn't told me that, 1:42:42.520 --> 1:42:43.960 because she was like, oh my god, maybe I'm going 1:42:44.000 --> 1:42:45.479 to turn him off, maybe I'm going to scare him. 1:42:45.520 --> 1:42:48.080 Maybe maybe I'm you know it's And I'm like, well, 1:42:48.280 --> 1:42:50.000 if I did, then I was just the wrong guy. 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:52.040 Like it was to me, it felt like a fair 1:42:52.080 --> 1:42:55.720 thing to say you're allowed to like different things or 1:42:55.720 --> 1:42:57.599 tell me what you like. We're getting to know each other. 1:42:57.840 --> 1:42:59.959 I don't know. I think that honesty piece is so important. 1:43:00.080 --> 1:43:01.679 Yeah, I mean, I think about some of the richest 1:43:01.720 --> 1:43:04.000 relationships in my life. So there's a woman Kimberly I've 1:43:04.040 --> 1:43:06.080 been working with for the last six years, and I 1:43:06.160 --> 1:43:09.040 know that if I give her feedback, she will always say, oh, 1:43:09.080 --> 1:43:10.760 thank you so much. I'm going to work on that. 1:43:10.840 --> 1:43:13.200 And it's a cliche, but it's true. Like feedback is 1:43:13.200 --> 1:43:16.200 a gift because you're making someone aware of a blind 1:43:16.200 --> 1:43:18.720 spot and then they have the opportunity to improve. And 1:43:18.760 --> 1:43:21.439 like I don't walk on eggshells with her because I 1:43:21.520 --> 1:43:23.960 know that we can talk through any situation. Or my 1:43:24.040 --> 1:43:26.679 friend Ellen is obsessed with feedback and she's so good 1:43:26.680 --> 1:43:30.920 at receiving it. And I remember one time for guess 1:43:30.920 --> 1:43:32.880 it was for Father's Day, Like the gift that I 1:43:32.880 --> 1:43:34.800 gave my husband because he loves the New York Times 1:43:34.800 --> 1:43:38.080 crossword is that like Ellen and her husband Niehark, came 1:43:38.080 --> 1:43:41.839 over and we all did the New York Times Sunday 1:43:41.960 --> 1:43:45.599 or I guess a Saturday crossword like like on our 1:43:45.640 --> 1:43:48.320 projector and like every time I would throw out a word, 1:43:48.880 --> 1:43:51.000 Ellen would say, I mean, now I'm like throwing her 1:43:51.080 --> 1:43:53.000 under the bus. But she was sort of like that's 1:43:53.040 --> 1:43:55.080 not even the right number of letters and this and that, 1:43:55.160 --> 1:43:56.600 and I told her later, I was like, I'm not 1:43:56.640 --> 1:43:58.280 that good at crosswords, but I was just kind of 1:43:58.280 --> 1:44:00.200 having fun and you kind of like embarrass me where 1:44:00.200 --> 1:44:02.919 I didn't want to participate, and she was like, wow, 1:44:03.240 --> 1:44:05.280 thank you, so much for telling me that, like I know, 1:44:05.360 --> 1:44:07.599 I have a competitive streak, and like the way she 1:44:07.680 --> 1:44:10.640 received it, where she was like truly so grateful for it. 1:44:10.680 --> 1:44:13.280 I just felt much closer to her. And I think 1:44:13.320 --> 1:44:16.240 that when you're honest with someone and they receive that 1:44:16.360 --> 1:44:20.479 as a gift and not with defensiveness, it just makes 1:44:20.520 --> 1:44:22.880 you feel like you can go deeper and deeper with that. 1:44:22.920 --> 1:44:24.360 And I think a lot of people are afraid of 1:44:24.400 --> 1:44:27.360 the truth and afraid of rejection when it's really like, 1:44:27.680 --> 1:44:30.519 being honest with someone is a way to get more 1:44:30.520 --> 1:44:32.880 intimate logan Uri. The book is called How to Not 1:44:32.960 --> 1:44:36.240 Die Alone logannuri dot com. For the quiz, please please 1:44:36.560 --> 1:44:38.960 go and do the quiz. You'll get your results. You'll 1:44:38.960 --> 1:44:40.840 be able to learn so much more about what's been 1:44:40.880 --> 1:44:43.120 blocking you in dating. You'll also be able to strike 1:44:43.160 --> 1:44:45.400 up a conversation with friends who are going through similar things. 1:44:45.479 --> 1:44:47.280 So I really hope you check it out. Logan Is 1:44:47.280 --> 1:44:49.679 there anything else you'd like to share, any inside advice 1:44:49.760 --> 1:44:51.840 or anyway you'd like people to find you more? Check 1:44:51.840 --> 1:44:54.519 out the Netflix show it's called The Later Daters, and 1:44:54.600 --> 1:44:57.080 I also offer coaching and matchmaking and there's a lot 1:44:57.120 --> 1:44:58.400 more great info on my site. 1:44:58.479 --> 1:44:59.759 I am going to be sending a lot of people 1:44:59.760 --> 1:45:02.599 matt making your way. I'm so glad we finally met. Yeah. 1:45:02.720 --> 1:45:04.720 Jay, this was even better than I expected, and I 1:45:04.760 --> 1:45:07.040 really appreciate all the work and good vibes you put 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:07.639 out into the world. 1:45:07.680 --> 1:45:09.960 Thank you, you the best. This is awesome. Thank you so much. 1:45:10.120 --> 1:45:12.640 If you love this episode, you're going to love my 1:45:12.760 --> 1:45:16.160 conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your 1:45:16.200 --> 1:45:19.200 ex and find true love in your relationships. 1:45:19.520 --> 1:45:24.640 Make a list of the things that are truly important 1:45:25.720 --> 1:45:28.920 for you to find in a partner, and then be 1:45:29.080 --> 1:45:29.519 that list