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Speaker 1: The biggest lie that we've been sold in love is

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Speaker 1: this idea of the spark. We interpret it as chemistry

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Speaker 1: when it's actually anxiety. Only eleven percent of people experience love.

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Speaker 2: At first sight, So you don't believe in the one.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe in the one. We've become so obsessed

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Speaker 1: with finding the perfect person instead of building the perfect relationship.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, welcome back to on Purpose, the place you

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Speaker 2: come to become the happier, healthier, and more healed. This

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Speaker 2: might be the most requested dating episode we've ever done

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Speaker 2: because so many of you keep asking the same question,

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Speaker 2: why do I keep chasing the wrong person? Why can't

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Speaker 2: I find the right person? Today we're joined by best

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Speaker 2: selling author and Hina's Director of Relationship Science, Logan Yuri.

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Speaker 2: Logan challenges one of dating's biggest myths. What does the

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Speaker 2: spark really mean? And is it actually leading you in

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Speaker 2: the wrong direction? If you're tired of confusing chemistry with compatibility,

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Speaker 2: I don't want you to miss this episode. Please welcome

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Speaker 2: to On Purpose Logan Uri Logan, Uri, Welcome to On Purpose.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so happy to be here.

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Speaker 2: It's so great to have you I've been wanting to

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Speaker 2: have you in this seat for so long. You've been

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Speaker 2: such a requested guest for us. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited for this conversation, so I.

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Speaker 2: Want to dive right in. Let's do it. My first

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Speaker 2: question is what is the biggest mistake that people are

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Speaker 2: making and dating right now?

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Speaker 1: One of the biggest mistakes I see people making is

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Speaker 1: really having unrealistic expectations around relationships, around dating, around their

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Speaker 1: partner and around themselves. And so through my coaching, I've

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Speaker 1: categorized this into a framework that I call the three

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Speaker 1: dating tendencies. And I know you took the quiz on this,

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Speaker 1: so I'm excited to see your results of the quiz,

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Speaker 1: but just to walk you through it. So, the first

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Speaker 1: hype is the romanticizer. And the romanticizer I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of people out there will relate to this. They

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Speaker 1: are worried about finding their soulmate and they believe there's

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Speaker 1: one person out there for everyone and I'll know it

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Speaker 1: when I see it. And so this person is very

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Speaker 1: very focused on the we met and their partner looking

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Speaker 1: the way they expect. And the second type is the maximizer,

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Speaker 1: and the maximizer has unrealistic expectations of their partner, and

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Speaker 1: so you know you're a maximizer if you say things

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Speaker 1: like I just want to keep searching, or I found

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Speaker 1: someone great, but I want to find someone even better.

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Speaker 1: And this is the person who's never satisfied. They always

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Speaker 1: wonder what else is out there, the sort of the

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Speaker 1: grass is greener person. And the third type is the hesitator,

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Speaker 1: and the hesitator has unrealistic expectations of themselves. And so

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Speaker 1: the hesitator says things like I'll be ready to date

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Speaker 1: when when I lose five pounds, when I get a

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Speaker 1: better job, when I finally clean up my apartment, and

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Speaker 1: so there's a sense within them that they're not datable

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Speaker 1: and that they need to become a different person before

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Speaker 1: they're going to put themselves out there because no one

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Speaker 1: would fall for them with who they are right now.

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Speaker 2: So you don't believe in the one.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe than the one.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there's so many great people who you

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Speaker 1: could make a life with, and that it's really interesting

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Speaker 1: because I think, especially for the maximizer type, there's almost

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Speaker 1: this premise of it's ninety five percent who you choose

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Speaker 1: and five percent the effort you put in. And I

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Speaker 1: don't have exact numbers on this, but my framework would

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Speaker 1: be more like, it's twenty five percent who you choose

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Speaker 1: and seventy five percent the effort you put in. And instead,

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Speaker 1: in our society we've come so obsessed with like finding

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Speaker 1: the perfect person instead of building the perfect relationship.

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Speaker 2: I actually love that approach, and I find that so

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Speaker 2: fascinating because we play so much emphasis not even on

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Speaker 2: choosing the right person, but finding the right person believing

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Speaker 2: that they exist, rather than thinking, Okay, I've got to

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Speaker 2: choose someone who hopefully I'll have a better chance with

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Speaker 2: because they're choosing me too, and we're going to work

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Speaker 2: on it together. And that work part being your emphasis

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Speaker 2: feels like the right place to place the priority with

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Speaker 2: your three. I love the romanticizer, the hesitator, and the maximize. Ultimately,

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Speaker 2: are we trying to just improve? I saw your email

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Speaker 2: that came through with my assessment, which I thought was great,

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Speaker 2: and he gave me really actionable tips to say, here

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Speaker 2: is how to stop being X. He is how to

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Speaker 2: improve this area of your life. What are we trying

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Speaker 2: to get to because we're ultimately one of these three?

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Speaker 2: What are we trying to be.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a great, great question. So the point of

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Speaker 1: the three dating tendencies is to understand that you probably

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Speaker 1: have dating blind spots. So these are patterns of behavior

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Speaker 1: or ways of thinking that are holding you back from

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Speaker 1: finding love but that you can't identify on your own

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Speaker 1: and in my coaching, and I'm sure you've felt this too,

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Speaker 1: people often come in and they're like, my biggest issue

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Speaker 1: is what I look like, or my biggest issue is

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Speaker 1: that I work too much, And almost one hundred percent

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Speaker 1: of the time that's not what their biggest issue is.

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Speaker 1: Because if they knew what their biggest issue was, they

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Speaker 1: could fix it. But a lot of times it's something

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Speaker 1: else that they don't realize. And so the point of

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Speaker 1: knowing your dating tendency is to say something like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm a maximizer, I'm always looking for the next best.

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Speaker 1: I'm actually going to switch and become what I call

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Speaker 1: a satisfy sir, which I can get into and really

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Speaker 1: understand that if I want to move to the next level,

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Speaker 1: if I want to go from the guy who dates

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Speaker 1: someone for three months and then always tries to trade up,

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Speaker 1: but I really want to get married and have kids.

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Speaker 1: I have to overcome this tendency in order to move

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Speaker 1: to the next stage, or else I'll keep repeating this

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Speaker 1: for years to come.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's fascinating that we're not aware of the thing

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Speaker 2: that's blocking us. And usually it's some distraction that we've

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Speaker 2: imagined up and said, oh, it's because I'm never available.

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Speaker 2: And what you're saying is this actually helps us get

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Speaker 2: to the root of where it comes from and why

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Speaker 2: it exists in the first place. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so my background is in behavioral science, which is

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Speaker 1: the study of how people make decisions. And this is

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Speaker 1: just what fascinates me about the world is so often

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Speaker 1: we're not making decisions in a conscious way. We are

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Speaker 1: really following these invisible scripts. And so the point of

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Speaker 1: my work and of the three dating tendencies is to say,

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Speaker 1: let's make the invisible visible and then we can identify

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Speaker 1: the problem, make a plan, and then you can show

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Speaker 1: up differently and get different results.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I'll share my results in a second. I

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Speaker 2: want to ask you a couple more things about that

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Speaker 2: before we get there, because your works in data. I

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Speaker 2: wanted to ask you what data point have you come across.

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Speaker 2: I feel like there's so much great research now about

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Speaker 2: love and dating and matching. It's better than it's ever

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Speaker 2: been before. We have more access. I want to share

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Speaker 2: a few stats with you in a second. But what

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Speaker 2: would you say has been the thing that has shocked

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Speaker 2: you the most? The data point that you swa on

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Speaker 2: you went, I cannot believe that's true.

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Speaker 1: One data point that shocked me recently and actually made

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Speaker 1: me happy is I saw through some research that we

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Speaker 1: did at HINGE that, well, I'll start by saying, I

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Speaker 1: think people think that gen Z's really nihilistic, they love

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Speaker 1: dark humor, they're really pragmatic, and so I would have

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Speaker 1: guessed that gen Z was not romantic at all, that

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Speaker 1: they would just be like, okay, like nothing else in

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Speaker 1: the world is working out. I was born into this

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Speaker 1: really tough moment in history, and I would think that

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't be romantic. But what we saw in our

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Speaker 1: data at HINGE is that is actually thirty percent more

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Speaker 1: likely than millennials to believe in the idea of a soulmate,

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Speaker 1: and they're thirty nine percent more likely than millennials to

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Speaker 1: identify as someone who's romantic or idealistic about romance. And

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Speaker 1: so I think that we should not cut this generation

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Speaker 1: short and think, oh, they're not interested in romance. They

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Speaker 1: really are. They really are yearning for romance, even to

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Speaker 1: the point of, you know, believing in a soulmate. W

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Speaker 1: I said, I don't, but there's so much holding them back.

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Speaker 1: And I know we'll get into it in this conversation,

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Speaker 1: but really, this fear of rejection and fear of embarrassment,

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Speaker 1: fear of cringe, and so this data point of gen

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Speaker 1: Z actually being quite romantic has really stuck out to me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting that, like you said, even though

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Speaker 2: you don't believe in a soulmate, the fact that this

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Speaker 2: whole generation does, or a lot of the generation does.

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Speaker 2: It elds points to a belief in love and a

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Speaker 2: value in love, and we just need to figure out

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Speaker 2: what that is. I wanted to ask you about a

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Speaker 2: couple of statistics that I pulled out. Great let's do

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Speaker 2: in my mind that I think these speak to what

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Speaker 2: we're struggling with in the dating landscape right now, and

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Speaker 2: I wanted to share some, so we'll go through one

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Speaker 2: at a time, and I'd love to get your reaction

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Speaker 2: to it. This stat says fifty three percent of singles

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Speaker 2: reported dating burnout, And I think dating burnout is what

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Speaker 2: we're seeing all across the board. When you see that,

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Speaker 2: talk to me about the behavioral science. Talk to me

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Speaker 2: about the reasoning why we're experiencing dating burnout? What is it?

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Speaker 2: Because we're all thinking it might be the apps, it

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Speaker 2: that there's no good people out there left anymore, or

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Speaker 2: the great people are taken. What is actually happening? What

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Speaker 2: are you seeing?

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Speaker 1: When I hear that, I feel so sad, Like they

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Speaker 1: can't remember the last time they went out on a date.

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Speaker 1: I feel like we're just sort of missing the plot here.

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Speaker 1: It's like part of being young is dating and meeting

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Speaker 1: new people and figuring out who you are. And it's

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Speaker 1: almost like dating has become a job, and then people

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Speaker 1: feel like they need to take a break from it,

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Speaker 1: and so at HINGE. One of the biggest data points

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Speaker 1: that we've seen around burnout is that something that causes

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Speaker 1: it is lack of responsiveness. So I send you a message,

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Speaker 1: we're going back and forth, and then you just stop response,

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Speaker 1: and then it makes me feel like, what did I

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Speaker 1: do wrong? Why are you rejecting me? Why doesn't anyone

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Speaker 1: want to be with me? And I sort of spiral

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Speaker 1: and after a while you just need to take a

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Speaker 1: break from that feeling. And so part of it is

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Speaker 1: just I think in dating culture right now, we're really

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Speaker 1: taking each other for granted, and there's a sense of

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Speaker 1: like if I disappoint you, well, there's someone else waiting

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Speaker 1: for me. And also there's no context, like if your

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Speaker 1: sister in law introduced us, then you would know that

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Speaker 1: if you did something not so nice to me, someone

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Speaker 1: would be hearing about it. But I think we are

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Speaker 1: lacking some of that context right now, and we're just

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Speaker 1: not treating each other with as much with as much

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Speaker 1: integrity as we should be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the accountability piece is huge. What you're

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Speaker 2: just saying right now that if we introduced to a

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Speaker 2: friend or a family member, you're going to have someone

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Speaker 2: to answer to us to why it didn't work out.

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Speaker 2: But the challenge about that is, as you said, is

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Speaker 2: you can't control that, like you can't control someone being responsive,

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Speaker 2: and so it becomes harder and harder to put yourself

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Speaker 2: out there and feel like, oh, I I thought someone

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Speaker 2: told me last week, Oh I'd scheduled a date. We've

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Speaker 2: been talking for three days straight and then all of

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Speaker 2: a sudden, even though we set a date in place

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Speaker 2: in time when I text to confirm the person who's

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Speaker 2: ghosted me, and it's like, I have no idea what

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Speaker 2: went wrong, and so there's a sense of wanting everyone

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Speaker 2: to be more confident, but there's also a sense of

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Speaker 2: like how much can we take?

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Speaker 1: I totally agree. And it's interesting because I'm married, you're married.

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Speaker 1: I've been with my husband for a long time. We

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Speaker 1: in a way are a bit removed from rejection. But

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Speaker 1: I have a two year old and I was talking

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Speaker 1: to different families about who we would do a nanny

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Speaker 1: share with, and this woman basically wrote me like a

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Speaker 1: breakup text, essentially being like, we don't want to move

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Speaker 1: forward doing a nanny share with you. And I was hysterical.

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Speaker 1: And I know that sounds crazy, but it was like

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Speaker 1: the first time that I'd really felt that rejection in

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Speaker 1: a while, of someone like meeting you, getting to know you,

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Speaker 1: and saying no, I don't want to quote unquote be

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Speaker 1: with you. And I think sometimes married people forget how

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Speaker 1: painful that rejection is, and so I just want to

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Speaker 1: validate that feeling where yeah, dating really is hard. You're

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Speaker 1: putting yourself out there and you're saying this is who

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Speaker 1: I am, and then someone says yes or no, I

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Speaker 1: want to be with you.

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Speaker 2: Looking for love is almost like it's a bit harder

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Speaker 2: than that because it involves two people and you feeling

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Speaker 2: like I have to convince this other person that I'm worthy.

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Speaker 1: I work with men and women, but a lot of

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Speaker 1: the women are in there, let's say mid thirties to

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Speaker 1: mid forties, and they're kind of wondering like did I

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Speaker 1: miss the boat? And there's a sense of if I

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Speaker 1: wanted to run a marathon, I know how to train

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Speaker 1: for it. If I wanted to get a promotion, I

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Speaker 1: could just put a lot of effort in, and that

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Speaker 1: dating is this uniquely hard thing because you can't just

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Speaker 1: put effort in and get results. Someone else has to

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Speaker 1: choose you as well. I think that's one of the

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Speaker 1: reasons it's uniquely challenging is because it's outside of your

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Speaker 1: individual effort and control.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, And that's sort of thinging that work

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Speaker 2: wise as well. There is a sense of I can

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Speaker 2: put in more effort and I can not control the outcome,

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Speaker 2: but I can impact it, hopefully a bit more closely.

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Speaker 1: And my husband and I talk about this all the time,

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Speaker 1: because work is very seductive. If I have more input,

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Speaker 1: then I'll get more output, and you sort of know

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Speaker 1: what the path is and you can kind of say, like, well,

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Speaker 1: if I crush work, then I'll get some promotion, then

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Speaker 1: I'll make more money. Like dating just isn't the same thing.

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Speaker 1: There's not like a guarantee reward if you put effort in.

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Speaker 1: And so I do often say to people that I

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Speaker 1: work with, like, don't fall for the seductiveness of work,

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Speaker 1: because yes, it's easily measurable and it can make you

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Speaker 1: feel good when you get those promotions or that affirmation,

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Speaker 1: but also remember that you should put effort into love too.

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Speaker 1: I don't really think it works when you're just like okay,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm just going to spend my twenties on work

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Speaker 1: and then in my thirties I'll start dating, because you'll

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Speaker 1: probably be behind. You haven't developed the skills that you

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Speaker 1: need to really be a great dat So.

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Speaker 2: If efforts the catalyst in work, what's the catalyst in love.

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Speaker 1: I do think you need a lot of effort in love.

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Speaker 1: It's just that it's not as guaranteed, like I think

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Speaker 1: in hustle culture, all of this work environment that you've

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Speaker 1: been seeing, let's for the last ten years, like productivity

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Speaker 1: and workmaxing and this and that. I think people just

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Speaker 1: fall into it because it feels like you know what

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Speaker 1: the result will be. So it's more that it's less

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Speaker 1: about work as effort and love isn't and it's more

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Speaker 1: that work feels like some guaranteed results. And I remember

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Speaker 1: about a year ago, I was working on a project

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Speaker 1: and I was talking to single daters in their mid twenties.

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Speaker 1: I talked to this guy, like super handsome, fun guy,

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Speaker 1: like definitely the type of person I would have been

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Speaker 1: drawn to when I was in my twenties. And he

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Speaker 1: was like, yeah, why would I go on a date

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Speaker 1: that could potentially go nowhere when I could just be

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Speaker 1: at home and edit a YouTube video? And I was

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Speaker 1: like what, Like it blew my mind, Like I was

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Speaker 1: just I just didn't understand. And he was like, well,

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Speaker 1: if I edit the YouTube video, like I know, I'll

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Speaker 1: get this many views and I'll improve in this way,

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Speaker 1: whereas the date has no guarantee. I think that's sort

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Speaker 1: of one of the things that I'm seeing right now

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Speaker 1: is that people are struggling with dating because it is

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Speaker 1: a lot of unknown whereas work seems like more of

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Speaker 1: an known quantity.

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Speaker 2: I completely agree with you. How do we then train

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Speaker 2: the human mind to be okay with investing in an

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Speaker 2: area that has very little chance of return, but if

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Speaker 2: you found the return, it's like striking gold and life changing.

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Speaker 2: How do you discipline yourself to put an effort in

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Speaker 2: an area which, as you're saying, is uncertain. I'm glad we're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about this because this is definitely the thing that

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Speaker 1: I've been obsessed with lately. So from a coaching perspective,

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Speaker 1: step one is just to be really, really clear on

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Speaker 1: your goal. And that's why I was so happy to

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Speaker 1: see that, despite what I might have thought, gen Z

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Speaker 1: really is romantic and excited about finding someone. And so

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Speaker 1: I think you have to be clear on your goal

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Speaker 1: in order to overcome a bunch of hurdles and discomfort

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Speaker 1: to get there. And the second thing is what we're

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Speaker 1: calling chalant dating. So everyone knows what nonchalant means. It

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Speaker 1: means you act attached, you pretend that you don't care,

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Speaker 1: and it's really this battle of who can care less.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like.

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Speaker 1: Dating has been in this area for a while now.

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Speaker 1: Let's say like at least a decade and I just

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Speaker 1: hear this all the time. Oh, he waited five hours

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Speaker 1: to text me back, so I'm going to wait six hours.

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Speaker 1: And when I dug into why this is happening, I

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Speaker 1: feel like a lot of it is because of this

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Speaker 1: surveillance culture that we have now, where it used to

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Speaker 1: be that if you sent someone a text message and

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Speaker 1: it was a little embarrassing or you know, didn't quite

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Speaker 1: hit the mark, like it disappeared, But now it gets

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Speaker 1: screenshotted and sent to the group chat, or worse, it

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Speaker 1: makes it onto Instagram or TikTok or someone's doing a

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Speaker 1: story time about it. And so I feel like we

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Speaker 1: just live in a society where it's a lot harder

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Speaker 1: to fail because if you fail, it feels like it's

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Speaker 1: forever and it's shared with the world. And so what

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Speaker 1: I'm seeing is that a generation that is afraid to

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Speaker 1: embarrass themselves. For them it's like, the worst thing you

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Speaker 1: can be is sincere. The worst thing you can do

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Speaker 1: is be cringe. And the truth is that most things

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Speaker 1: in life worth having you have to take a risk for.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure that you don't have this job because you

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Speaker 1: just sat back and said, Okay, well, if a recruiter

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Speaker 1: reaches out to me, I'll take that job. It's like

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Speaker 1: you literally created your dream job and your dream life

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Speaker 1: by taking risks. And I have found with gen Z

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Speaker 1: that they's just such a fear of taking risks. And

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Speaker 1: we're finding this in the Hinge data as well. And

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Speaker 1: so gen Z is much less likely than millennials to

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Speaker 1: be willing to have a deep conversation on the first date.

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Speaker 1: They are much more likely to say that they have

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Speaker 1: a fear of being too much. And so you have

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Speaker 1: this generation that's afraid of rejection, afraid of trying, afraid

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Speaker 1: of effort. And then miraculously, this term came around chalant dating,

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Speaker 1: where people are like, you know what, I'm tired of that,

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Speaker 1: I'm tired of playing games, I'm tired of the battle

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Speaker 1: who can care less? And now we're really seeing that

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Speaker 1: term has skyrocketed. So we've seen a two hundred and

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Speaker 1: seventeen percent increase in that term in the last year.

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Speaker 1: And on TikTok you'll see all these video like I

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Speaker 1: want a chalant guy. I want someone to chalant me down.

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Speaker 1: And so chalant dating is a combination of effort and vulnerability.

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Speaker 1: It's saying I care. I'm going to show you that

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Speaker 1: I care, and I'm willing to be vulnerable even at

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Speaker 1: the risk of rejection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And what's fascinating though, is we always get into

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Speaker 2: that trend of I want someone to be this way,

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Speaker 2: and it comes back to the same thing of like, well,

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Speaker 2: we're going to have to be this way too, because

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Speaker 2: there's only so much I love that term because again,

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Speaker 2: it's like it goes back to what you said earlier,

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Speaker 2: which is the goal. If your goal is I want

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Speaker 2: to find love and I want to commit to someone

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Speaker 2: and being in a monogamous relationship long term, you're going

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Speaker 2: to have to be chalant because guess what, even when

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Speaker 2: you've been with someone for ten years, you still have

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Speaker 2: to be schalant definitely. So the chalant never changes, it's

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Speaker 2: always there. It's always care if and vulnerability. And then

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Speaker 2: it goes back to well, if you don't know what

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Speaker 2: your goal is, then of course you care more about

381
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Speaker 2: what everyone else thinks or being cringe or being left

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Speaker 2: on red or whatever it may be. And so it's

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Speaker 2: that goal piece I think is so important.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen heated rivalry or you have not saying

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Speaker 1: that no, no, no, I know I've heard about it from

386
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:07,960
Speaker 1: a million people. What I've not I really liked it.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's overrated. But it's been amazing to

388
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Speaker 1: see the reaction to that show. And I think one

389
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,600
Speaker 1: of the reasons why is that it's a lot of

390
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Speaker 1: chalant dating. And really the show has this pivotal point

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Speaker 1: where one of the characters, Shane, who's been holding back

392
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Speaker 1: his feelings, becomes more schalant and he says this famous line,

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Speaker 1: you know, come to the cottage. I want you to

394
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Speaker 1: come to my cottage, And that's really about him showing

395
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Speaker 1: effort and being vulnerable, and that changes everything. And people

396
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,960
Speaker 1: have really been drawn to the show because it's about

397
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Speaker 1: loving out loud and yearning for someone, and I think

398
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Speaker 1: people are missing that, and we just have this entire

399
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Speaker 1: generation and maybe even you know, more than just gen Z.

400
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Speaker 1: That's sort of like sitting at home, hiding behind a screen,

401
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:54,760
Speaker 1: yearning for someone to yearn for them, but being so

402
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Speaker 1: afraid of showing effort. I just think it's a shame.

403
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,760
Speaker 1: It's like, when did effort be cringe? When did trying

404
00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 1: for something become embarrassing? I think if you look at

405
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,560
Speaker 1: the psychology behind it, it really has to do with

406
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Speaker 1: fear of rejection. And we found at Hinge that ninety

407
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Speaker 1: five percent of data say that they have this fear

408
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: of rejection. But if you just have people sitting at

409
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,159
Speaker 1: home not willing to try, then they're never going to

410
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: get this thing that they clearly want, which is finding

411
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Speaker 1: a great partner.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think documented rejection is a painful point.

413
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Speaker 2: It's what you said about the surveillance. So if someone's

414
00:19:27,920 --> 00:19:29,920
Speaker 2: not replying back and then it goes to the group chat,

415
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:32,640
Speaker 2: or you send a text where you were really vulnerable

416
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Speaker 2: and all of a sudden that text ends up in

417
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Speaker 2: another group chat, and that's concerning because you don't want

418
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Speaker 2: to be exposed for being vulnerable. And I think that

419
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,400
Speaker 2: comes back to what you're saying. There's another statistic here

420
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Speaker 2: that hits on that exactly forty percent of men eighteen

421
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Speaker 2: to twenty five have never approached a woman in person.

422
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Speaker 2: It sounds like that's happening because of a fear of rejection.

423
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Speaker 2: It sounds like that's happening because if I don't even

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Speaker 2: know what to say, I don't even know how to start.

425
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,560
Speaker 2: It sounds like that's happening because we don't really do

426
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: that anymore. So when me and you were dating at

427
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,320
Speaker 2: that age, That's all I ever did. All I ever

428
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,439
Speaker 2: had to do was pluck up the courage to go

429
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Speaker 2: over to a girl in a bar or a restaurant

430
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Speaker 2: or in the mall and say, hey, can I get

431
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 2: your number? And I remember how stressful that was, Like,

432
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Speaker 2: it was stressful even back then, but that was the move.

433
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 2: And sometimes you get rejected, sometimes it would work. And

434
00:20:24,040 --> 00:20:26,520
Speaker 2: so how do we even encourage when we're saying people

435
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 2: are losing basic connection skills, conversation skills. People are worried

436
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:32,320
Speaker 2: if I go up to someone, will I look like

437
00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,800
Speaker 2: a creep? People are worried I get rejected in public?

438
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 2: How terrible will it look? Everyone has their phones out? Now?

439
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,399
Speaker 2: How do we even begin to think about giving people

440
00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:41,080
Speaker 2: these skills?

441
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:45,080
Speaker 1: Everything you're saying I agree with where people listening to

442
00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:46,920
Speaker 1: this who may have been married for a while, are

443
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,840
Speaker 1: there any old gen X and older They might be like, yeah,

444
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,760
Speaker 1: people have always been afraid of rejection. I think what

445
00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:53,719
Speaker 1: we're really calling out here is that this is a

446
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,359
Speaker 1: new and distinct thing. We're gen Z by nature of

447
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 1: the surveillance culture. And also, I do think the pandemic

448
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, people don't want to bring up the pandemic anymore,

449
00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: but it's like, if you came of age during the pandemic,

450
00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,560
Speaker 1: it did impact your social skills. And a lot of

451
00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:09,960
Speaker 1: the gen Z daters that I talk to say, you know,

452
00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:13,320
Speaker 1: I'm much more comfortable communicating through a screen or I

453
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,679
Speaker 1: want to be able to check it with chat YOUBT first,

454
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 1: And it's like, sure, you can use those as strategies

455
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: to get to the date, but once you're on the date,

456
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,960
Speaker 1: it's still like the analog version of like two people talking.

457
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 1: You have to be able to make conversation in terms

458
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 1: of people approaching each other in public. I think the

459
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:35,600
Speaker 1: answer there is really just to work on experiencing discomfort

460
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 1: and working through it and being able to see that

461
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,679
Speaker 1: rejection can actually be redirection. So when you hear a

462
00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,359
Speaker 1: bunch of nos, those are nos that you're hearing on

463
00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 1: the way to a different yes. And so you have

464
00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: to get a bunch of nos to figure out what's

465
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,879
Speaker 1: right for you. And I think that if you're so

466
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,520
Speaker 1: fearful of a no, you never try and you never

467
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 1: get to that yes.

468
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, there's another one that reminds me of you

469
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:03,639
Speaker 2: hesitate it. So this stab, this is why I put

470
00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 2: it in there. So sixty nine percent of gen Z

471
00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:10,440
Speaker 2: respondents say they're not ready for a relationship, even though

472
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: they may want one. Why do you think that.

473
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: Is that absolutely sounds like hesitators, And maybe we're talking

474
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: about a generation of hesitators. And so when you dig

475
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:20,600
Speaker 1: into the psychology of a hesitator, a lot of it

476
00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: is around I'm not enough, I'm not where I need

477
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,280
Speaker 1: to be yet. And so I'll talk to let's say

478
00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:28,439
Speaker 1: a male dater in his twenties in New York, and

479
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: he'll say, I can't date until I make six figures.

480
00:22:31,760 --> 00:22:34,560
Speaker 1: And I find this is especially true with men, where

481
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,200
Speaker 1: there's this sense of women need me to be a provider,

482
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:41,800
Speaker 1: and for a number of sociological cultural reasons, they don't

483
00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,560
Speaker 1: feel like they're able to be that yet, so they

484
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,439
Speaker 1: don't even put themselves out there. But then, on the

485
00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,800
Speaker 1: other hand, we have the research and the insights into

486
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 1: what women want, and so only six percent of female

487
00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 1: daters say they want a man who's the solo provider,

488
00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 1: and seventy two percent of women on HINGE they'd much

489
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: rather have someone who puts in effort than someone who

490
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,360
Speaker 1: makes more money, and so you have men saying I'm

491
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: not eligible, I can't be the provider that I was

492
00:23:08,880 --> 00:23:12,119
Speaker 1: told I need to be, and women saying, actually, things

493
00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,679
Speaker 1: have changed. I am more of a provider than my

494
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,239
Speaker 1: mother's generation or my grandmother's generation. And so what I

495
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:22,840
Speaker 1: want is emotional intelligence, emotional availability effort. And so you

496
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: have two people who misunderstand what the other person wants,

497
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 1: and then they're not putting themselves out there.

498
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: That I mean that speaks to the root of so

499
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 2: many challenges. When I speak and we're talking about heterosexual relationships,

500
00:23:35,320 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 2: when I speak to women who say to me like, well,

501
00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,040
Speaker 2: I just can't find the right guy. There's no good

502
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:42,400
Speaker 2: guys out there. And then when I speak to guys,

503
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: they're like, well, I can't get a match on an app.

504
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 2: And so then you go, wait a minute, what's going

505
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 2: on here and where are we? So what are the

506
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: other things that you're seeing that are almost causing this

507
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,760
Speaker 2: tension between men and women? So one of them being men,

508
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 2: think they need to be earning six figures, women are saying, hey,

509
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:01,280
Speaker 2: we're happy to contribute. The other at tension points that

510
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: you're seeing that you think of misleading us from the

511
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 2: actual point of what we're looking for.

512
00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:07,760
Speaker 1: Yes, And so just to emphasize that effort point and

513
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:11,239
Speaker 1: chalant dating even more, I hear from women where they're like,

514
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:13,600
Speaker 1: this guy, he doesn't need to fly me to the moon.

515
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,360
Speaker 1: I just want simple things. I want him to remember

516
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,960
Speaker 1: the name of my best friend from work. I want

517
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:20,879
Speaker 1: him to know that I have a big meeting and

518
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 1: send me a text wishing me good luck or following

519
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: up afterwards. And so women are saying like, I want

520
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,639
Speaker 1: effort and I want care and that's more important to

521
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,800
Speaker 1: me than money, and the men are just like, well,

522
00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,639
Speaker 1: I was raised to, you know, be a lion, and

523
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,199
Speaker 1: the lion has to provide. And women are like, wait, no,

524
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 1: I want a tiger who's emotional, and he's like but

525
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:41,760
Speaker 1: but I wasn't raised for that. And so I do

526
00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: feel like the dating hasn't caught up with the data.

527
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: The dating of how we interact and how in heterosexual

528
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,199
Speaker 1: relationships people perceive each other hasn't caught up with the

529
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: fact that we do live in a different society where

530
00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: women are earning more money and you know, soon two

531
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 1: thirds of college graduates will be women, and so there's

532
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,040
Speaker 1: really a disconnect there.

533
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 2: There's a few things you said there that really caught

534
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 2: my attention, and they're two very different things. The first

535
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 2: one is this idea of men were not raised yeah,

536
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: to be that vulnerable tiger, as you put it, and

537
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: I do see that as being a real, real challenge

538
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 2: for men, where the men that do feel they're vulnerable

539
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 2: feel that they're not strong enough for women, and the

540
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 2: men that feel like they're trying to become financially successful

541
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:47,920
Speaker 2: may not feel emotionally available or women may not feel

542
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 2: their emotionally available, and then you're stuck in this catch

543
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,639
Speaker 2: twenty two. How does a group of men go on

544
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: to you know, it's almost like a big challenge to say,

545
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 2: how do we get society, how do we get men

546
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: in society to actually develop some of those emotional intelligence skills.

547
00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,199
Speaker 1: I just want to acknowledge that it's really complicated and

548
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: that I hear it from both sides. So there's this

549
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,720
Speaker 1: quote that I love from Brene Brown where she says

550
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: women beg men to be vulnerable, and they really want

551
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: them to open up, but the second that they do,

552
00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:18,920
Speaker 1: women can't stand it. And so it's like we tell

553
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: men that we want them to be vulnerable, but actually,

554
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 1: in many ways we want them to follow these scripts

555
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: of masculinity. And so I think as a society, we're

556
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: still sort of figuring it out. Like there used to

557
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,160
Speaker 1: be more traditional gender roles, and I'm glad that we've

558
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: developed past that. I'm glad that I can make an income,

559
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,400
Speaker 1: and like, I love my life and I love my career.

560
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 1: But I also understand why people are confused, because when

561
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: there's more ambiguity and more blurred lines, then people are

562
00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 1: figuring out their roles. And I think what you said

563
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 1: is exactly what I'm seeing as well. You have men

564
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,399
Speaker 1: who aren't sure how vulnerable women actually want them to be,

565
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: and then you also have women that are successful in

566
00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: making money, and then they fear that men are going

567
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,880
Speaker 1: to find them intimidating or they don't just not yeah,

568
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:01,879
Speaker 1: And so I feel like we're just kind of in

569
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,920
Speaker 1: that messy middle where like there was the way things

570
00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,520
Speaker 1: were for a long time, and like for most of history,

571
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 1: like men have had all the economic power, all the

572
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: earning power, and then for a bunch of things that

573
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: have changed, let's say in the last fifty years, with

574
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 1: feminism and other things that have progressed, you now have

575
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: brand new rules, and I think people just haven't figured

576
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 1: it out. But what makes me sad about it is

577
00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: it just leads to a lot of misconnections.

578
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, the picture you just painted feels very true to me.

579
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,800
Speaker 2: That we had these very clear structures that I don't

580
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 2: think we're healthy or good in any way, but they

581
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 2: were clear. And what's happened now is we moved into

582
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 2: the age of nuance, and because our brains are not

583
00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 2: designed to deal with nuance as well, we kind of

584
00:27:43,520 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 2: don't know how to navigate those things. And I would

585
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 2: honestly say, and maybe you'd say the same about you

586
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 2: and your partner. I would say that my wife and

587
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,399
Speaker 2: I kind of toggle a lot of nuance for our

588
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:59,240
Speaker 2: relationship to work. We don't really have clear We have

589
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 2: some very clear roles in some very not clear roles.

590
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 2: We have some parts of our relationship that are totally

591
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 2: different to what we both imagined our life would be.

592
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,160
Speaker 2: We live across cities, we travel a lot, we spend

593
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: a lot of time together and don't see each other

594
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 2: for time, So there's so many nuances that we can't

595
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,879
Speaker 2: stay tied to our gender roles to make the relationship

596
00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,800
Speaker 2: successful because that would just make us weaker and it's

597
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:24,119
Speaker 2: almost like we've got to rise above those, but the

598
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 2: new rules haven't been set yet and we don't know

599
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: what they are.

600
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: I definitely agree, and I would say I have the

601
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 1: same thing in my marriage. So I do one hundred

602
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: percent of the laundry. My husband does one hundred percent

603
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: of the garbage. That's because I like doing laundry, doesn't

604
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: bother me, and he doesn't want to do it. But

605
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,280
Speaker 1: in other ways we kind of mix those gender roles up,

606
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 1: so like he's one hundred percent in charge of like

607
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,640
Speaker 1: our food, our groceries, feeding our daughter. Like people ask

608
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: me what she eats, I'm like, I don't know, that's

609
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 1: his department. And so I agree that there's a lot

610
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,200
Speaker 1: of nuance. I think that just pulling back and kind

611
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: of zooming out. People are struggling right now because there

612
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,720
Speaker 1: are way fewer rules. Like if you went two hundred

613
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:05,120
Speaker 1: years ago, what were my ancestors doing. Well, I'm Jewish,

614
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: so they would have known what to wear, they would

615
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: have spent their days praying or studying the Torah, or

616
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 1: knowing exactly what they could and couldn't eat. A matchmaker

617
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: would figure out who to marry. There were just so

618
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,959
Speaker 1: many more rules that told you who you were, and

619
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:23,000
Speaker 1: now we've broken open a lot of those rules, and

620
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: I think people are really struggling with knowing what to do,

621
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: and in some ways they're craving rules. And so I

622
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: don't think that where society should go, or certainly where

623
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 1: I want it to go, is going back to traditional

624
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,120
Speaker 1: gender rules, honest saying yeah, and I don't want that

625
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 1: at all, But I'm just acknowledging that I think without rules,

626
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: people are struggling. And you can even see this in

627
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 1: the rise of certain aspects of the manisphere, or you know,

628
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: Catholicism is having a moment where I think people really

629
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,160
Speaker 1: feel like I just want someone to tell me what

630
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: to do, because when it's up to me, I don't

631
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: think I'm necessarily making great decisions.

632
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,080
Speaker 2: And that's hard because I think we all know so

633
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 2: enough people who followed the perfect trajectory their life would

634
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 2: have should have gone in and not been happy when

635
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 2: it was decided by others. And almost agency and awareness

636
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 2: are just such superpowers and privileges that we all get

637
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 2: to decide who you spend your life with and what

638
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,720
Speaker 2: city you live in and what you do for work

639
00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,960
Speaker 2: that I almost want to you know, help people feel empowered.

640
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 2: That those are beautiful things to decide, and you don't

641
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 2: want to outsource them. So let's go through my results

642
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,600
Speaker 2: and then you can tell me how they can improve

643
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 2: and what to do with them. So just a caveat again.

644
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: I answered this as who I was when I was dating,

645
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: and I answered this as friends of mine who are

646
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 2: dating right now, because that was my best way of

647
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 2: doing it. So it says thanks for taking my three

648
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,200
Speaker 2: dating tendencies quiz, which everyone can take as well. We'll

649
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: put the link in the on the screen right now,

650
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 2: and in the comments, you scored equally high on the

651
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 2: hesitator and the maximize tendencies.

652
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:58,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is interesting. So sometimes people get both,

653
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: but if you have the hesitant tendency, that usually overrides

654
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 1: it because it means that for these other reasons, you're

655
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: not dating at all. And so I imagine that maybe the

656
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: maximizers who you were when you were dating, and maybe

657
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:13,840
Speaker 1: the hesitator is your friends who aren't dating right now.

658
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: That sounds very accurate. Yeah, if anything had a bit

659
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: of the romanticizer in me.

660
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: Too, I could also see that I wasn't.

661
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 2: So I'm like fully an idealistic, romantic kind of person.

662
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I think, just like Messy, you love eight

663
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 1: reels of what you have, this is your favorite realm.

664
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 1: So I'll just talk through each one and kind of

665
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 1: how to overcome it. So we talked about the romanticizer,

666
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 1: and so for them, they really believe that there's one

667
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,480
Speaker 1: person out there for them. There's research from a psychologist

668
00:31:42,560 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: named Renee Franniak who breaks us into a framework called

669
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 1: the work it out mindset versus the soulmate mindset. So

670
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320
Speaker 1: people with the soulmate mindset believe if you find the

671
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 1: right person, everything will be easy. And people with the

672
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: work it out mindset know that when you're in a relationship,

673
00:31:58,040 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: you have to put an effort to make it work.

674
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,160
Speaker 1: And so what we find is that people with this

675
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 1: soulmate mindset, it's actually easy for them to get into

676
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: relationships because they believe in love and they fall hard.

677
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 1: But the moment that something tough happens, they think, can't

678
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 1: be my soulmate. If it were my soulmate, it would

679
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,920
Speaker 1: be effortless, and so they give up too easily. And

680
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 1: so my homework for the romanticizers out there is to

681
00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: shift from the soulmate mindset, to the work it out mindset,

682
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,120
Speaker 1: and to understand that if you're putting in effort, then

683
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: you're doing it right not wrong.

684
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 2: I love that so well put.

685
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: So then the next one is the maximizer, which is

686
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: I was definitely a maximizer because I live in the

687
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: Bay Area Silicon Valley. A lot of people I work

688
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 1: with our maximizers, and I think our culture breeds maximizers

689
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,320
Speaker 1: because before I buy anything, I mean, it's so pathetic.

690
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm looking it up on Google. I'm checking wirecutter, what's

691
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: the best vacuum, what's the best bluetooth headphones. It's almost

692
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 1: like I've lost the confidence in like buying something. I

693
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: need to know like every single detail. And like we

694
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: do this when we travel and if we're eating something.

695
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 1: And so there's a tendency in our culture to do

696
00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: what's called relation shopping, like to shop for someone as

697
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,800
Speaker 1: if it's a product, and then say, well, I want

698
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: the looks of this girl, the ambition of this girl,

699
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: the family background of this girl, and then to think,

700
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: if we just keep searching, we'll find the perfect person.

701
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: And what happens is people just wait too long and

702
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 1: then they realize I have I have fewer opportunities now,

703
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,640
Speaker 1: or the girl that I rejected ten years ago the

704
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: guy said no to five years ago, like they've gone

705
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 1: and found someone great and now I'm alone. And so

706
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: for the maximizer, the solution is really to switch from

707
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 1: maximizing to something called satisficing. So satisficing is a term

708
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 1: from the Nobel Prize winner Herbert Simon, and it's a

709
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: portmanteau of the words satisfy and suffice. So this is

710
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: how satisficing works. It's not about settling. Settling is such

711
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: a curse word in my world. I'm sure for you too,

712
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,480
Speaker 1: Like no one wants to be told to settle. It's

713
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: the s word. But instead, satisficing is this idea that

714
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: you get super clear on what you want. You say,

715
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 1: these are my deal breakers, these are the things I

716
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: must have. You know, if you want to have the

717
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 1: same religion as someone, if you really want them to

718
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:12,239
Speaker 1: care about animals, if you want to have a certain

719
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,959
Speaker 1: number of kids. And once I find someone that has

720
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: those really important qualities to me, I'm going to commit

721
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: to them and try to make it work. Versus what

722
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 1: a maximizer does, which is they find that person and

723
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: they're like great, Well, if she exists, I'm going to

724
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: find her. But an even hotter version. And so satisficing

725
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 1: is really about knowing what's important to you. Finding someone

726
00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:37,200
Speaker 1: that satisfies is that and committing. And this really important

727
00:34:37,239 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: thing that I want to get across to people is

728
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: that it's not about making the perfect decision. It's about

729
00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 1: how you feel about your decision. And all of the

730
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:50,279
Speaker 1: research on maximizers show that they often feel regret about

731
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:53,480
Speaker 1: their decisions because once they make a decision, they're thinking, well,

732
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 1: what else could I have had? Whereas a satisficer, they're

733
00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 1: much happier in life because they make a decision, they

734
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,840
Speaker 1: commit to it, and that's what matters. It doesn't matter

735
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 1: to make the perfect choice. It matters how you feel

736
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: about your choice.

737
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are it seems like everything you're offering,

738
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: You're like, these really balancing principles, but require a lot

739
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: of work to wrap your head around. When you've been

740
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 2: conditioned for twenty thirty forty years to be a maximizer,

741
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,280
Speaker 2: it's hard to suddenly recognize the value of satisfying because

742
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 2: it's worked for you, right, Like being that ambitious, driven

743
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,640
Speaker 2: a type person has worked for you, and now in love,

744
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 2: you're like, well, maybe it won't work for you in

745
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 2: this area specifically.

746
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 1: I think that's a crucial point, is that what works

747
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: for many people and other aspects of their life, whether

748
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 1: it's exercise, making money, work, doesn't always apply in dating.

749
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,160
Speaker 1: And there is this alchemy, there is this sense of

750
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: two people coming together, and it's why you know, no

751
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: one has an algorithm that perfectly predicts who you're going

752
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: to be with. It really is this thing where two

753
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 1: people are in front of each other choosing each other,

754
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,200
Speaker 1: and when you're in a relationship, you choose each other

755
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 1: every single day. And I think that you have to

756
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: take mindset that you apply to work and other optimization

757
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: and you have to switch it when it comes to

758
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: dating and relationships.

759
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I always wanted to touch on, just briefly, on the

760
00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 2: top priorities. You mentioned this idea. Sometimes when I hear

761
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: people's top priorities, my number one reaction is that doesn't

762
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: make them a good partner. So, for example, even the

763
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 2: three you mentioned is what people may say, and I

764
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: know they weren't things that you said or we were

765
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:27,760
Speaker 2: coming up with a list, But when I think about

766
00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 2: like someone being of the same faith, it's helpful. But

767
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 2: I know lots of people in my faith that I

768
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,880
Speaker 2: would never married, and so the point is that doesn't

769
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 2: make them better at being in a relationship. It just

770
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 2: gives us some common ground or like even like liking

771
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,000
Speaker 2: animals or whatever or maybe And I know those were

772
00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 2: just starting up throwing things out, but I hear things

773
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 2: like that where it's like I really want to find someone,

774
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: like I don't want to marry a doctor, And I'm like, what, Like,

775
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 2: how is that even a category? Because unless you're really

776
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: clear about the fact, I don't want someone to have

777
00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: late nights and busy schedule, if that's the reason in

778
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,520
Speaker 2: but if it's a personality type attached to that career,

779
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,880
Speaker 2: I'm like, how do you even know that? Like, people

780
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,560
Speaker 2: are so multifaceted. It's not possible that every doctor in

781
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,640
Speaker 2: the world is X or every you know. So I

782
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 2: guess my point is sometimes I worry with people's top

783
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: priority list because if your top priority list doesn't make

784
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: someone a better partner and better at relationships, it doesn't

785
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:21,760
Speaker 2: actually matter.

786
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 1: I'll share the research on what does and doesn't matter

787
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 1: for long term relationship success, so the doesn't matter. One

788
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,000
Speaker 1: are things that people think matter, but matter less than

789
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,600
Speaker 1: people think they do. So the first one is looks.

790
00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 1: Of course you want to be attracted to your partner.

791
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: Of course you want to have that chemistry with them.

792
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,840
Speaker 1: But what we know is that over time your feelings

793
00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,680
Speaker 1: towards somewhat adapt so you're really attracted to them in

794
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,000
Speaker 1: the beginning, but over time you sort of get used

795
00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:50,799
Speaker 1: to how they look. And this happens in many parts

796
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 1: of life. There's this idea of adaptation. It's why a

797
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 1: year after winning the lottery, many people's happiness levels revert

798
00:37:57,000 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: to what they were before they won the lottery. We

799
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: sort of get used to what's around. And that's also

800
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: true for the second one, which is money. Yes, money

801
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 1: makes things easier. Money can get rid of some problems

802
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: in relationships and buy you some time back. But I

803
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,160
Speaker 1: think when people focus too much on money, they really

804
00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: miss out on the fact that it's not correlated with

805
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: long term relationship success. Other things that people mistakenly look

806
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: for include having really similar personalities. Well, I know that

807
00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: two of me in a relationship would be way too much,

808
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 1: and two of my husband in a relationship might be

809
00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,880
Speaker 1: too little, and so it's actually great to find someone

810
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,680
Speaker 1: not who's the same as you, but someone who balances you.

811
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,640
Speaker 1: And the same thing is true with people who look

812
00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 1: for the same hobbies. Yes, maybe if you both love wine,

813
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: that's great. But if you love wine and your partner doesn't,

814
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:45,919
Speaker 1: you can go have fun drinking wine with someone else

815
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 1: as long as your partner doesn't judge you for it. Now,

816
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,920
Speaker 1: let's talk about the things that matter more than people

817
00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: think they do. So the first one is kindness. And

818
00:38:54,160 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: I think that this is just completely underestimated, and part

819
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: of it is because it's not that easy on a

820
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,239
Speaker 1: day app or just online to see someone's kindness. And

821
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 1: so when you're out on a date with them, I

822
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: want you to look for things like how they treat

823
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:10,759
Speaker 1: the weight staff, how they treat people that they don't

824
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:14,120
Speaker 1: need anything from, even how they treat you. The second

825
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: one is emotional stability, and this is really about someone

826
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: who can get through a relationship and not react, that

827
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: they can actually take a beat, see what the situation

828
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 1: is and really respond rather than react. And this is

829
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: correlated with great relationships. And then some of the other

830
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: ones are a growth mindset, something that I know you

831
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: talk about on the show. And so someone who when

832
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:38,839
Speaker 1: they're met with a challenge, they can say, okay, well

833
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't have that skill, but I'll create that skill,

834
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:44,440
Speaker 1: versus somebody with a fixed mindset who says, you know,

835
00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:46,480
Speaker 1: you're born with the skills you have and like, I'll

836
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 1: never become good at that because I'm not good at

837
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:49,080
Speaker 1: that now.

838
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 2: And then the.

839
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: Ability to fight well together, so people think, oh, I

840
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:55,279
Speaker 1: want to find someone who I don't fight with at all.

841
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: It's like, no fights are inevitable, And there's research from

842
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 1: the Gotmans that says that sixty nine percent of the

843
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: fights you have are perpetual. That means you're going to

844
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,399
Speaker 1: constantly fight about it for your whole relationship. Like I'm

845
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:09,320
Speaker 1: an early bird and my husband is more of a

846
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: late bird, and like we always disagree about time and

847
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,240
Speaker 1: when we get to the airport, and so it's about fighting, well,

848
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 1: it's not about not fighting. And then the final one,

849
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 1: which has become super important to me and as part

850
00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 1: of my questions of the post eight eight that we'll

851
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,600
Speaker 1: talk about, is what side of you that person brings out.

852
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,879
Speaker 1: And this is really crucial because so often we date

853
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: someone for their resume, their bio data. We say he

854
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,839
Speaker 1: has all the qualities my mom told me to look for.

855
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: He went to the right schools, he has the right job.

856
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: But if when you show up, he makes you feel

857
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,279
Speaker 1: anxious or insecure or less then or he doesn't laugh

858
00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 1: at your jokes, which makes you think, oh, am, I

859
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: not as funny as I thought I was. Pay attention

860
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:53,400
Speaker 1: to that. That is your body telling you that you

861
00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: don't feel comfortable with this person, and they're not bringing

862
00:40:56,280 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: out the side of you who you want to be,

863
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,799
Speaker 1: because whoever you marry, you're going to be the side

864
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 1: of yourself that they bring out. And so so much

865
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: of what I try to do is to help people

866
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: tune into their nervous system and to how they feel

867
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 1: on the date and after the date, because who cares

868
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: about the resume? Who cares about their job? Do you

869
00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 1: like who you are around them?

870
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? I love that you broke that down from a

871
00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 2: data perspective, and it totally matches with what my intuition's

872
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 2: been saying for so long, because everything you mentioned in

873
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,840
Speaker 2: a second category are completely about how someone is in

874
00:41:29,880 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 2: a relationship versus how someone is anywhere else in their life,

875
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:37,080
Speaker 2: which just doesn't correlate. And I think so many people

876
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 2: get into relationships because of all of the first script,

877
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 2: and we don't even think about the second until you're

878
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:45,839
Speaker 2: deep into it, engaged, married, and then you go, wait

879
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,719
Speaker 2: a minute, like, this person isn't kind Like One of

880
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,360
Speaker 2: my favorite things about my wife is that she doesn't

881
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,560
Speaker 2: judge me like that has to be one of the

882
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:56,759
Speaker 2: most freeing, most beautiful things is that I can try something,

883
00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 2: I can do this, I can be bad at this,

884
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 2: I can be good at this, and I don't feel judged.

885
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,360
Speaker 2: And that's like the ultimate experience of kindness, where I

886
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:06,520
Speaker 2: don't feel like anything I do is judged, whether I

887
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 2: work too odd or work too little, whether I made

888
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,880
Speaker 2: a decision there or here. It's there's a sense of trust,

889
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 2: and there's a sense of commitment, and there's a sense

890
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: of understanding. At the same time, she's the first one

891
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: who roasted me and called me out if she wants to,

892
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:20,600
Speaker 2: and she's able to do that too, And I think

893
00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 2: that feels so safe for me, at least in what

894
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: kindness looks like. And I think of that as such

895
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,320
Speaker 2: an important thing to look for, as you've rightly pointed

896
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 2: out from the data, as opposed to like, yeah, are

897
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,879
Speaker 2: they this tall? Do they hang out in the same

898
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,080
Speaker 2: places as I do. Do they you know, whatever else

899
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: it may be that comes up, What do you think

900
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:44,239
Speaker 2: is the biggest lie we've been sold in love?

901
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: I would have to say that the biggest lie that

902
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: we've been sold in love is this idea of the spark.

903
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:52,959
Speaker 1: And it's sort of become my unofficial tagline or motto,

904
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 1: which is the spark. And I really do believe this

905
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: because I think that when people go on dates looking

906
00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 1: for instant chemistry, they often miss out on great potential partners.

907
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: So the first myth of the spark is that if

908
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: you don't feel it at the beginning, you'll never have it,

909
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 1: and we know from the research that that's not true.

910
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,960
Speaker 1: So only eleven percent of people experience love at first

911
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: sight with their partner. And so I think because of

912
00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: rom coms, because of Disney movies, we just sort of expect, like,

913
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 1: I'll know it when I see it, he'll walk into

914
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 1: the room, we'll catch eyes at the farmer's market, and

915
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: we'll live happily ever after, And it's just not true,

916
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,479
Speaker 1: like so many people are with someone who they spent

917
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:34,680
Speaker 1: time with. I just saw this funny meme yesterday that

918
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: was like your coworker isn't hot. You just spend forty

919
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:39,960
Speaker 1: hours a week ten feet from him, and I was like,

920
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: you nailed it. That's called the mirror exposure effect. Oftentimes,

921
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: the more times you're around someone, or the more times

922
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:47,839
Speaker 1: you hear a song, the more you like it because

923
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 1: you get more familiar with it. And so it's not

924
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,840
Speaker 1: true that if you don't feel the spark, you never will.

925
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,280
Speaker 1: The spark often does grow over time. And the second

926
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 1: myth of the spark is that if you have it,

927
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: it's a good thing. So sometimes the spark is a

928
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:05,000
Speaker 1: good thing, and those people get married and have great relationships.

929
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: But a lot of times it's actually our brains and

930
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: our bodies giving off alarm bells, like I feel insecure

931
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,799
Speaker 1: around this person, does he like me? Does he not

932
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,399
Speaker 1: like me? And so we interpret it as chemistry when

933
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:20,880
Speaker 1: it's actually anxiety. And having done this research for a

934
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,120
Speaker 1: long time, I actually find that certain people are just

935
00:44:23,200 --> 00:44:27,120
Speaker 1: really sparky. They're either really good looking, or sometimes it's

936
00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: that they're really narcissistic and they can really layer on

937
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 1: the charm. But that doesn't mean that they're going to

938
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: be good long term partners. It just means that in

939
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: the moment you felt this connection to them or this

940
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: attraction to them. But sometimes that spark is actually the

941
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:45,040
Speaker 1: sign of anxiety and not knowing where you stand with them.

942
00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: And the third thing, the third myth of the spark

943
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 1: is that if you have it, then the relationship is viable,

944
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: and that's also not true. I researched so many couples

945
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: going into my book and for my other work that

946
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: started with the they really had it at the beginning,

947
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: and then they thought this is enough, but they fought

948
00:45:05,080 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 1: all the time. They didn't have shared values, and so yes,

949
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,799
Speaker 1: the spark can get you pretty far into a relationship,

950
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 1: but it's not enough, and so make sure that you

951
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: don't get into the wrong relationship because you met the

952
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,360
Speaker 1: quote unquote right way.

953
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,960
Speaker 2: This is so refreshing to hear because I feel like

954
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 2: it just shows the power of cultural conditioning and messaging.

955
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: It's one of the reasons why we launched our production company,

956
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 2: Perfect Strangers last week, because our goal was how do

957
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,760
Speaker 2: we create entertaining storytelling but that's actually based on reality,

958
00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:38,600
Speaker 2: so we can transform these messages because like you said,

959
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:42,399
Speaker 2: we've all grown up watching two people lock eyes and

960
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: everything makes sense or drive off with the happily ever

961
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 2: after and that's what we want, and that's what I wanted,

962
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:50,960
Speaker 2: quite frankly, like that's what I was looking for when

963
00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 2: I was a teenager, and I always believe that that's

964
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 2: what love was. And now feeling like I'm in love

965
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,319
Speaker 2: and being in a loving relationship that's evolved. I don't

966
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:04,319
Speaker 2: think that's what love's like at all. But it's hard

967
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: when you're dating and you're hoping for and you're going

968
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: to all these dates and you're like, well, that was boring,

969
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: that wasn't fun enough. And then you go and even

970
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,879
Speaker 2: if you're watching a TV show, a reality show which

971
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: isn't real, like it's based on an island in the

972
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,719
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere. Gosh, everyone's in bikinis and whatever, and

973
00:46:17,760 --> 00:46:20,960
Speaker 2: it's like, that's not real life, and so how is

974
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: that gonna You know, it's the mind. It's the kind

975
00:46:23,000 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 2: of like the seeds of ideas that are planted in

976
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: all of our minds of what healthy love looks like.

977
00:46:28,640 --> 00:46:31,760
Speaker 2: You actually never see healthy love because it's just happening

978
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,919
Speaker 2: behind closed doors inside someone's house. They're not broadcasting it.

979
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:37,960
Speaker 1: Right, It's not as fun on a TV show to

980
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: see like the day in and day out work that

981
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 1: people have to do, and it's the hard conversation that

982
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,239
Speaker 1: you have to have. It's supporting a partner when they're

983
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:50,319
Speaker 1: going through depression or ailing parents. It's just not as cinematic.

984
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:53,640
Speaker 1: And like, what is cinematic is two people meeting each other.

985
00:46:54,000 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 1: But we've become so obsessed with the we met. And

986
00:46:57,200 --> 00:47:01,000
Speaker 1: if you meet someone and you're with them for fifty years,

987
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: the day you met is point zero zero five percent

988
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: of your total relationship. And so when you hear that,

989
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 1: you're like, who cares about the we met? But people

990
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:13,200
Speaker 1: want to say at the dinner party, well, I was

991
00:47:13,239 --> 00:47:15,400
Speaker 1: at the library and I was returning a book and

992
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: he was looking for the same book. And it's like, yes,

993
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: that is cute, and that is romantic, But what's romantic

994
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: is the fact that you met and you're making a

995
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:26,040
Speaker 1: great relationship, not really based on how you met.

996
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, let's talk about dating apps. Yeah, that is

997
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:30,799
Speaker 2: how the majority of people are meeting today as far as

998
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,959
Speaker 2: I know, statistically, is that true? Yeah?

999
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:36,359
Speaker 1: So since twenty seventeen, there's research from Michael Rosenfeld at

1000
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: Stanford that shows that meeting online is the number one

1001
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: way that couples meet.

1002
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, so that we have to talk about it.

1003
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:45,600
Speaker 2: Let's do it. Do dating apps make us feel like

1004
00:47:45,640 --> 00:47:46,600
Speaker 2: we're replaceable?

1005
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:48,880
Speaker 1: I think that there is a big sense of the

1006
00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:51,279
Speaker 1: paradox of choice, this idea that when we have so

1007
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: many options, we don't value each one as much, or

1008
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,440
Speaker 1: that we regret our decision. And so I think the

1009
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,439
Speaker 1: best part of dating apps is that it's a lot

1010
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,480
Speaker 1: easier to find someone, especially if you're in what we

1011
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 1: call a fin market. So Dat's over fifty five LGBTQ

1012
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: plus daters, someone where it might have been hard to

1013
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: go around your community and say, well, who's single and

1014
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 1: who's looking for someone like me? And so it really

1015
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,759
Speaker 1: does a good job at connecting people who wouldn't have

1016
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: met otherwise. But I do think it introduces this idea

1017
00:48:21,200 --> 00:48:23,759
Speaker 1: of many choices, and people are struggling with that.

1018
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 2: If you're at the opposite end of way, you're getting

1019
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:28,399
Speaker 2: zero matches on a dating app, how do you fix that?

1020
00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: Where would you suggest people stop?

1021
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: The number one thing to do if you are having

1022
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 1: trouble getting matches is to fix your profile. And your

1023
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: profile is essentially like your billboard, and it's this one

1024
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,799
Speaker 1: chance with limited real estate to share who you are

1025
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 1: and what you're about, and I can share some of

1026
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: the top tips we found at Hinge for making a

1027
00:48:47,680 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: great profile.

1028
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 2: Yeah please.

1029
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: So the first thing is that your first photo is

1030
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:55,239
Speaker 1: so important. Just from watching people go through profiles, I

1031
00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,120
Speaker 1: can tell you that what they do is they look

1032
00:48:57,160 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: at the first picture, they decide if they like you

1033
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:01,840
Speaker 1: or not, and based on that they keep looking. So

1034
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:05,120
Speaker 1: the first picture really matters a ton, and you want

1035
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: one that's a clear headshot. Doesn't have to be a

1036
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: professional headshot, but I can see what you look like.

1037
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 1: You're not wearing sunglasses, there's no shadow, there's no filter.

1038
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: Just show me what you look like. That's really where

1039
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 1: to start, and obviously it should be flattering. Then you

1040
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: want to have a variety of photos that show me

1041
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:23,279
Speaker 1: different parts of yourself. So it's almost like show me

1042
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 1: the story of who you are. A mistake that I

1043
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,840
Speaker 1: see people making a lot is you know, if a

1044
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: guy likes anime, he'll write about that on his Hinge profile.

1045
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:33,359
Speaker 1: Have have photos from anime and it's like got it,

1046
00:49:33,719 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 1: you love anime. Hopefully the next person does too, But like,

1047
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 1: isn't there more to you? Show me more variety? And

1048
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: so you want to have the first headshot. Then you

1049
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: want to have a photo of you doing an activity

1050
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 1: that you love, so it could be cooking, hiking. You know,

1051
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: my friend is a magician, he has a picture of

1052
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,000
Speaker 1: himself on stage. Then you also want to have a

1053
00:49:52,040 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 1: full body shot. Some people don't like that, but it's true.

1054
00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:57,879
Speaker 1: People are looking for what you look like. And then

1055
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 1: you want to have one with friends and family. Give

1056
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 1: me a sense of what it would be like to date.

1057
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,799
Speaker 1: You show me that you have people that care about

1058
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 1: you and that you spend time with. And then for

1059
00:50:07,320 --> 00:50:10,160
Speaker 1: your prompts on Hinge, you want a mixture of humor

1060
00:50:10,200 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: and vulnerability, so you know if you love dad, jokes

1061
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:16,680
Speaker 1: include that I love. On Hinge, there's voice prompts where

1062
00:50:16,719 --> 00:50:20,520
Speaker 1: you can record something funny. So my friend has one

1063
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,520
Speaker 1: where the prompt is how to pronounce my name? And

1064
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: then he says Joe, And obviously you know some people

1065
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 1: right back and they're like, what you think, I don't

1066
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 1: know how to pronounce the name Joe, And he's like,

1067
00:50:33,239 --> 00:50:35,439
Speaker 1: not for me. And other people are like, I love

1068
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 1: your sense of humor, so I think that's like perfect,

1069
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,920
Speaker 1: And that actually leads me to a big point around profiles,

1070
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 1: which is that you don't want to attract everyone. You

1071
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: don't want to be chocolate ice cream that everyone likes.

1072
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:49,759
Speaker 1: You want to be, you know, mintship. You want to

1073
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: be something that some people like and some people don't like.

1074
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 1: And in our research at Hinge, we actually found this

1075
00:50:55,320 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: where we did an experiment. This wasn't on Hinge, it

1076
00:50:58,480 --> 00:50:59,919
Speaker 1: was like with different people and they knew there were

1077
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 1: anticipating where some people wrote on their profiles really specifically

1078
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: that they were looking for something serious, and other people

1079
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: wrote that they're, you know, just looking for someone kind

1080
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,040
Speaker 1: and adventurous. And what we found was for the people

1081
00:51:12,080 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: who wanted something serious, they liked those more serious profiles

1082
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:19,000
Speaker 1: way more, and the people who weren't looking for something

1083
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:21,920
Speaker 1: serious were turned off by their profiles. And that is

1084
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 1: exactly what you want. You want to turn the right

1085
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: people on and the wrong people off. You want fewer options,

1086
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,200
Speaker 1: but you want those options to be really aligned with

1087
00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:32,279
Speaker 1: what you're looking for.

1088
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:35,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's great, and you can really then filter out

1089
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,080
Speaker 2: the nonsense because if you want something serious, why waste time.

1090
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, it's not a popularity contest. It's not to

1091
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,920
Speaker 1: get the most likes it's really be more efficient match

1092
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 1: with the people who want what you want. On Hinge,

1093
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: we have dating intentions where you can say looking for

1094
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,759
Speaker 1: long term, short term, like just get more specific about

1095
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: what you're looking for, and then the right people are

1096
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: going to find you. If you're trying to be you know,

1097
00:51:57,560 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: the golden retriever that everyone likes, it's harder to actually

1098
00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 1: find the right match.

1099
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 2: I want to try something with you. Sure, we have

1100
00:52:21,719 --> 00:52:27,040
Speaker 2: two Hinge dating profiles. We've got permission from the individuals

1101
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,279
Speaker 2: for their face to be used in their pictures, and

1102
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:31,760
Speaker 2: I'm going to pass this to you in a second,

1103
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 2: and i want you to rate them and help them

1104
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,279
Speaker 2: basically stay you just told us what we can do. Right,

1105
00:52:36,320 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 2: So there's there's one guy and one girl. So I'm

1106
00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:39,520
Speaker 2: going to show you this one.

1107
00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: Wait, I thought this was Will Arnett.

1108
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 2: No it's not. That's so much.

1109
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,160
Speaker 1: Okay, So the first picture, I would say, it's not

1110
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: a headshot, but it's you know, I do get a

1111
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,840
Speaker 1: sense of what this person looks like. There's good lighting.

1112
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,719
Speaker 1: I feel like the body language is a little closed off,

1113
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: just like standing in that arms in front of you

1114
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I'm not Vanessa van Edwards, but

1115
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,879
Speaker 1: I feel like it kind of gives me a sense

1116
00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:09,280
Speaker 1: of someone who's like a little more timid, not as confident.

1117
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:13,040
Speaker 1: But I think that the first photo is okay, but

1118
00:53:13,120 --> 00:53:14,320
Speaker 1: let's see the rest of the profile.

1119
00:53:14,440 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 2: Okay, good, that's helpful. Okay.

1120
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:21,799
Speaker 1: A random fact I love is that honey never expires.

1121
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 1: I just don't love that prompt. It's not one of

1122
00:53:25,400 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: my favorites because it doesn't show me anything about who

1123
00:53:28,280 --> 00:53:32,360
Speaker 1: you are. And I like to think about your profile

1124
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: not just as what you write, but even the prompts

1125
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 1: you choose to respond to. And I like to think

1126
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:39,360
Speaker 1: about it as almost like a menu at a restaurant.

1127
00:53:39,440 --> 00:53:41,879
Speaker 1: You should choose a prompt that shows who you are.

1128
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:45,560
Speaker 1: You should choose a prompt that shows what you're looking for.

1129
00:53:46,040 --> 00:53:48,960
Speaker 1: And so I think a random fact, it's like, okay,

1130
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,960
Speaker 1: maybe that's a good conversation starter where someone can say

1131
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,800
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that, but it's just not that revealing,

1132
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:56,880
Speaker 1: And even being towards the top of the profile, it

1133
00:53:56,960 --> 00:53:58,360
Speaker 1: kind of feel like it's a little bit of a

1134
00:53:58,400 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: waste of special special real estate love.

1135
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 2: How honest you are. This is very ver, This is

1136
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 2: very helpful.

1137
00:54:04,239 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: It never crosses my mind to not be honest.

1138
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 2: No, but it's very helpful because I think these are

1139
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:09,800
Speaker 2: the things that we will trip ourselves up from. We

1140
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:10,759
Speaker 2: want to help them find love.

1141
00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,759
Speaker 1: So for sure. Okay, so this one is interesting. So

1142
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:15,799
Speaker 1: for work, they said entertainment. So one thing I've seen

1143
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: in talking to a lot of people about their profiles

1144
00:54:18,640 --> 00:54:21,240
Speaker 1: is that or sorry, talking to people who look at profiles,

1145
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,520
Speaker 1: is that when someone's too vague, people often jump to

1146
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,560
Speaker 1: negative assumptions. So I worked with a client who said,

1147
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 1: and this is in the Bay Area, if a guy

1148
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: says entrepreneur, I assume he's unemployed, and I swipe left,

1149
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,399
Speaker 1: and I was like, what, Like, there's just so many

1150
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:36,640
Speaker 1: ways of being an entrepreneur. And so what I would

1151
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: say is my advice for him is to maybe be

1152
00:54:39,120 --> 00:54:41,960
Speaker 1: a little more specific because people might just assume the

1153
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,280
Speaker 1: wrong thing. And my advice to people viewing this profile

1154
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:48,600
Speaker 1: or other profiles would be, if there's something that gives

1155
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: you a yellow flag, don't just swipe left or say no,

1156
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 1: actually ask instead of assume. Okay, So this next one,

1157
00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:00,200
Speaker 1: wearing the suit, I think what I get from it

1158
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,600
Speaker 1: is that I kind of get the same thing as

1159
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,040
Speaker 1: I do from the first one like, he's making a

1160
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:10,280
Speaker 1: very similar expression. It's kind of shot from a similar angle.

1161
00:55:10,960 --> 00:55:15,360
Speaker 1: He's not really smiling. I feel like it. It's a

1162
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 1: cute too, but I don't get that much more information.

1163
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:19,440
Speaker 2: Okay.

1164
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 1: The next one, Oh, this guy likes women, right, was

1165
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:23,720
Speaker 1: I making an assumption?

1166
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:25,000
Speaker 2: Okay?

1167
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,560
Speaker 1: The next one is with him and his friend. I

1168
00:55:28,280 --> 00:55:31,000
Speaker 1: like it because I think there's an intimacy there. It

1169
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:33,560
Speaker 1: looks like he's wearing a cross necklace, which maybe gives

1170
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,600
Speaker 1: me some more information. He's sort of making the same

1171
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:41,480
Speaker 1: smile with no teeth. I think that one's okay. And

1172
00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:46,160
Speaker 1: then green flags I look for appreciating sarcasm. I really

1173
00:55:46,200 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 1: don't like that one. We know there's a lot of

1174
00:55:48,360 --> 00:55:51,359
Speaker 1: hinge app cliches, and one of them is the one

1175
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: I'm fluent in sarcasm. I think this is similar where

1176
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:57,759
Speaker 1: it's just like, I don't really learn that much about you.

1177
00:55:57,960 --> 00:55:59,759
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of detail. It kind of just

1178
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:01,440
Speaker 1: makes you fade into the background.

1179
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:02,280
Speaker 2: Okay.

1180
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: The next one I really don't like. He's looking away

1181
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: from the camera. I can't really see his space. To me,

1182
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:13,360
Speaker 1: that picture kind of like pushes me away versus draws

1183
00:56:13,400 --> 00:56:15,280
Speaker 1: me in. Sorry, I'm being mean.

1184
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:18,600
Speaker 2: To this guy. But it's all this mean we're hoping

1185
00:56:18,680 --> 00:56:21,879
Speaker 2: that he can actually he's getting this is like this

1186
00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: is gold dust. You're getting a direct advice from the.

1187
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 1: Next one my greatest strength, My greatest strength, picking the spot.

1188
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:31,160
Speaker 1: I'm just like, bro, there's so much more that you

1189
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: could say here, just get specific. There's this rule in

1190
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,600
Speaker 1: comedy that the specific is the universal. The more specific

1191
00:56:38,680 --> 00:56:41,239
Speaker 1: you are, the more people will actually relate to it,

1192
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,640
Speaker 1: and the funnier it is. And I'm just like, this

1193
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,200
Speaker 1: is so vague. Picking the spot for what? And then

1194
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,400
Speaker 1: the next one is a video of him playing tennis.

1195
00:56:51,360 --> 00:56:51,600
Speaker 2: You know.

1196
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:53,880
Speaker 1: I like that it's you know, someone doing an activity

1197
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: you love, but it's like it's from behind. Could it

1198
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 1: have perhaps shown you from the front. And so guys

1199
00:56:59,400 --> 00:57:02,200
Speaker 1: especially tell me like I don't have better pictures or

1200
00:57:02,239 --> 00:57:03,960
Speaker 1: like I don't go around ask my friends to take

1201
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,640
Speaker 1: pictures of me. I know our friend Jared Freed and

1202
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,000
Speaker 1: his special thirty seven in single, He's just like talking

1203
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 1: about how like imagine if guys were like girls like

1204
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:15,120
Speaker 1: at the bachelor party, like okay, take a picture of

1205
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 1: me here, but still guys like step it up. Yeah,

1206
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: And then you know, I think I don't mind the

1207
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:24,880
Speaker 1: tennis one, but I would much prefer to its from

1208
00:57:24,920 --> 00:57:26,720
Speaker 1: the front. And then the last one is him with

1209
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 1: his friends, and I'm kind of like, okay, I see

1210
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: the crew. So going back to the top, what I

1211
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 1: would say is, I want you to find a better

1212
00:57:38,360 --> 00:57:42,760
Speaker 1: first photo that really shows you headshot style clearly what

1213
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,480
Speaker 1: you look like. And I don't really see you smiling

1214
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,840
Speaker 1: with your teeth much, but I would love to see

1215
00:57:47,840 --> 00:57:50,280
Speaker 1: one of those. I want you to just start from

1216
00:57:50,280 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: scratch on the prompts. I want you to give more

1217
00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: specific answers, longer answers. I want to have a clear

1218
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,080
Speaker 1: sense of who you are, what you're about, what you want,

1219
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,240
Speaker 1: and I would maybe keep one of the more professional

1220
00:58:02,280 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: looking photos, either the first one or the one in

1221
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:09,120
Speaker 1: the suit. I like the ones of you and your friends,

1222
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,320
Speaker 1: but I would maybe choose no. I actually like both

1223
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:15,440
Speaker 1: of them. I think the tennis one. Can you try

1224
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 1: to get one where I can see your face and

1225
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 1: you know, just add more specificity and tell me more

1226
00:58:23,080 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: about what you're looking for, because right now I think

1227
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,600
Speaker 1: this profile feels generic and I think we could make

1228
00:58:29,600 --> 00:58:30,360
Speaker 1: it more specific.

1229
00:58:30,760 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 2: Great advice. So, and is there a need to rate

1230
00:58:34,440 --> 00:58:36,120
Speaker 2: on a scale of one to ten or not. Really,

1231
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 2: I don't.

1232
00:58:37,040 --> 00:58:39,440
Speaker 1: Because I don't know him. It's harder for me to

1233
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: do that. Like in my coaching, a big conversation I

1234
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 1: have with people as I say, this profile doesn't match

1235
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:47,439
Speaker 1: the person I'm seeing in front of me, Like you're

1236
00:58:47,480 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: so vibrant, you're so funny. I don't see that here.

1237
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:53,280
Speaker 1: And a great achievement for me in coaching was when

1238
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,000
Speaker 1: I had this client and he was South Asian and

1239
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,200
Speaker 1: people often put him in a box. They were like

1240
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,320
Speaker 1: South Asian engineer, Like I know everything about him. And

1241
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,160
Speaker 1: then I was like, he's actually so silly, and we

1242
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:09,000
Speaker 1: made his profile extremely silly, and we added videos of

1243
00:59:09,080 --> 00:59:12,040
Speaker 1: him wearing different costumes and we really played that up.

1244
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,360
Speaker 1: And then a few years after we stopped working together,

1245
00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,080
Speaker 1: he sent me a text that he was engaged and

1246
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:21,280
Speaker 1: that the person that he had gotten engaged to had

1247
00:59:21,440 --> 00:59:25,680
Speaker 1: first liked his hinge video of him being really silly.

1248
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: And it's like, by being more clear about who he was,

1249
00:59:28,520 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 1: you couldn't put him in a box. You could actually

1250
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:31,920
Speaker 1: see who he was. And so I don't have a

1251
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,840
Speaker 1: rating for this profile because I don't know the person.

1252
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:35,720
Speaker 1: So I don't know how true to life this is. Yeah,

1253
00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:37,800
Speaker 1: but I think there's a lot of room for improvement

1254
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,920
Speaker 1: and just be more chalant.

1255
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love it. Great advice. So now I'm going

1256
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:45,400
Speaker 2: to hand you another profile, theystem of a woman, and

1257
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:47,360
Speaker 2: I'd love to see what you have to say.

1258
00:59:47,480 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 1: Great. It's funny because I just sometimes feel like women

1259
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 1: are way better at profiles because they just have so

1260
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:55,640
Speaker 1: many more photos of them, and they're probably more comfortable

1261
00:59:55,640 --> 00:59:58,280
Speaker 1: asking their friends. So maybe first I'm just gonna look

1262
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,720
Speaker 1: at the whole thing to get a vibe, and then

1263
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:04,800
Speaker 1: I'll have some comments. So first photo, I really like it. Like,

1264
01:00:05,360 --> 01:00:08,600
Speaker 1: I love the lighting, I like the vibe, I like

1265
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:12,680
Speaker 1: her smile. You know, it could potentially be cropped in

1266
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:15,280
Speaker 1: a little bit more. There's like a little more visual

1267
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:17,560
Speaker 1: information and noise than we need. Like I think it

1268
01:00:17,560 --> 01:00:20,400
Speaker 1: could be crop more on her face. But I like it,

1269
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:22,440
Speaker 1: and I think I the number one thing is can

1270
01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: I see clearly what she looks like? And I can? Okay,

1271
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 1: the next one is my greatest strength, turning chaos into

1272
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: a good story later. I actually like that one to me.

1273
01:00:31,840 --> 01:00:34,240
Speaker 1: Reading between the lines, I get a good vibe from it,

1274
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:38,080
Speaker 1: which is I'm a person that can deal with different situations,

1275
01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 1: like if something goes wrong, I'm not going to fall apart.

1276
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:44,400
Speaker 1: And it actually reminds me. I used to work at

1277
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: Airbnb a long time ago, and we would talk about how,

1278
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:50,640
Speaker 1: like a really great Airbnb traveler was somebody who knows

1279
01:00:50,720 --> 01:00:53,520
Speaker 1: that when things go wrong, that's when they get interesting.

1280
01:00:54,160 --> 01:00:56,280
Speaker 1: And like that's the vibe that I get from her,

1281
01:00:56,600 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 1: where she's not afraid of discomfort or adventure. She's like,

1282
01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,600
Speaker 1: it makes a good story later. So maybe I'm like

1283
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:06,280
Speaker 1: overly reading into it, but I like that.

1284
01:01:06,440 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 2: But that's probably good, right, got you curious, you got

1285
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,520
Speaker 2: you engaged, Yeah, that's good.

1286
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:13,480
Speaker 1: One thing I didn't mention on the other person's profile

1287
01:01:13,680 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 1: is this idea of a hook. So a lot of

1288
01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:18,960
Speaker 1: times people think about a profile as a monologue. I'm

1289
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:22,160
Speaker 1: just talking at you, But a great profile should be

1290
01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:25,080
Speaker 1: a dialogue where I'm starting the conversation and you respond,

1291
01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:29,440
Speaker 1: so turning chaos into a good story later. And then

1292
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 1: she could add a question that says, ask me about

1293
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 1: the time that I almost got kidnapped in Vietnam. Then

1294
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,720
Speaker 1: I'm like, holy cow, I want to hear about Vietnam.

1295
01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,480
Speaker 1: I want to hear about that story and so it

1296
01:01:41,560 --> 01:01:44,720
Speaker 1: initiates actually, and it also especially for women attracting men,

1297
01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 1: it's like, just make it easy for them. Just make

1298
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,320
Speaker 1: it so that like they know what to ask you,

1299
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: like you want them to ask more questions, Like make

1300
01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:54,520
Speaker 1: it easy for them to start the conversation. Okay, I

1301
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,360
Speaker 1: like that it's executive assistant at production company, you know,

1302
01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,160
Speaker 1: versus the person who wrote entertainment. There's more information. So

1303
01:02:01,200 --> 01:02:04,000
Speaker 1: she wrote Christian, and I think this is interesting because

1304
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 1: when I've gone through profiles with people that are swiping,

1305
01:02:07,560 --> 01:02:10,240
Speaker 1: sometimes they see Christian and they're like, well, I'm not religious.

1306
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:12,240
Speaker 1: She must be so religious to put it on there.

1307
01:02:12,320 --> 01:02:14,840
Speaker 1: I just don't think that's the case. That's a situation

1308
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 1: where you should ask instead of assume. So does Christian

1309
01:02:17,680 --> 01:02:21,360
Speaker 1: to her mean that she's in Mass every Sunday or

1310
01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,760
Speaker 1: does it mean that she celebrates Easter and Christmas? And

1311
01:02:24,840 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: so really finding out what that means to her, and

1312
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 1: then I love this. So on Hinde, she filled out

1313
01:02:30,240 --> 01:02:32,840
Speaker 1: her dating intentions, so she's looking for a life partner,

1314
01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:36,840
Speaker 1: and she filled out her dating type and she put monogamy. So,

1315
01:02:37,080 --> 01:02:39,280
Speaker 1: especially in the Bay Area, there's so many people who

1316
01:02:39,280 --> 01:02:42,600
Speaker 1: are like, thank god Hinge added dating type because I'm

1317
01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,280
Speaker 1: sick of going on dates with guys who are not monogamous.

1318
01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:47,400
Speaker 1: And so anyway, I like that she used more of

1319
01:02:47,400 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 1: the information available and for someone who's not looking for

1320
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:52,880
Speaker 1: those things, she's going to turn them off and that's

1321
01:02:52,920 --> 01:02:53,400
Speaker 1: a good thing.

1322
01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: Okay. The next picture super cute.

1323
01:03:00,120 --> 01:03:02,800
Speaker 1: I kind of get a preppy vibe, like she's holding

1324
01:03:02,800 --> 01:03:08,200
Speaker 1: this little parasol she's drinking. I like it, Like I

1325
01:03:08,240 --> 01:03:10,680
Speaker 1: think I can see what she looks like. She looks cute.

1326
01:03:11,200 --> 01:03:13,240
Speaker 1: We could kind of call this a full body shot,

1327
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:15,600
Speaker 1: but I think what's great is that I'm just like

1328
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,200
Speaker 1: getting a sense of her.

1329
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:18,120
Speaker 2: Okay.

1330
01:03:18,200 --> 01:03:22,200
Speaker 1: The next one is also great because it's showing her

1331
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:24,760
Speaker 1: with her friend, but I can tell which one she is.

1332
01:03:24,840 --> 01:03:27,080
Speaker 1: So a mistake that people make is like You'll have

1333
01:03:27,120 --> 01:03:29,840
Speaker 1: like ten guys in baseball caps and I'm like, which

1334
01:03:29,880 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 1: one is you? Like this is so annoying? Or like

1335
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:36,400
Speaker 1: ten girls in bridesmaid's robes with the same southern curled

1336
01:03:36,440 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 1: hair and it's like this isn't where's waldo? Like make

1337
01:03:38,800 --> 01:03:40,320
Speaker 1: it easy for me to see what you look like?

1338
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,200
Speaker 1: And so for this one, it's like I can tell,

1339
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,480
Speaker 1: like she's sort of glamorous. She has like, you know,

1340
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: a cute outfit, but it's really easy to tell which

1341
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 1: one she is. I go crazy for someone who can

1342
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:57,439
Speaker 1: cook well a truly spiritual experience. I think that one's good.

1343
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,640
Speaker 1: I think she could have more details, Like she could

1344
01:04:00,720 --> 01:04:04,880
Speaker 1: do another hook where it could be like like message

1345
01:04:04,920 --> 01:04:07,760
Speaker 1: me if you know how to cook Paea, or like

1346
01:04:09,720 --> 01:04:12,360
Speaker 1: let's have a French host competition, just something that's setting

1347
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:16,600
Speaker 1: the other person up. Okay, the next one, he's a

1348
01:04:16,640 --> 01:04:18,480
Speaker 1: fantastic sure.

1349
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:19,280
Speaker 2: You know. The next one.

1350
01:04:19,280 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 1: It's so funny, you know, like the idea of like

1351
01:04:20,760 --> 01:04:23,440
Speaker 1: a male gaze. It's like I definitely think this is

1352
01:04:23,480 --> 01:04:25,600
Speaker 1: like a hot photo and like a guy would be

1353
01:04:25,640 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 1: into it, and like, look like there is kind of

1354
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: the strategic game part, and I think that that is

1355
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: like a great photo. And then typical Sunday. Okay, this

1356
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,520
Speaker 1: is probably my number one favorite hinge prompt because there's

1357
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 1: so much you can do a typical Sunday. So let's

1358
01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: see what you're wrote. Being outdoors playing pickleball. She could

1359
01:04:44,240 --> 01:04:47,680
Speaker 1: play with you jay or spending time around any area

1360
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,520
Speaker 1: that has dogs around. I think that's okay, Like I

1361
01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:55,160
Speaker 1: get a sense of her, but I think it could

1362
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:59,120
Speaker 1: like have more detail or like being outdoors and playing

1363
01:04:59,160 --> 01:05:02,560
Speaker 1: pickleball like so similar, and so I would say, like

1364
01:05:02,720 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 1: great prompt. I think many people should use it, but

1365
01:05:04,840 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: I would like a little more specificity, like are you

1366
01:05:07,640 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 1: uh dumplings at home on a Sunday?

1367
01:05:09,680 --> 01:05:09,960
Speaker 3: Girl?

1368
01:05:10,160 --> 01:05:12,920
Speaker 1: Are you uh having dinner with your family every Sunday?

1369
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: Like I think a little more detail. Okay, she has

1370
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:18,880
Speaker 1: the full body shot. One thing I would say is

1371
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,280
Speaker 1: that she definitely looks like very glamorous in a lot

1372
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:23,960
Speaker 1: of these, which maybe if that's her vibe, that's great,

1373
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:26,720
Speaker 1: but I'm not seeing as much variety in terms of

1374
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,200
Speaker 1: like is she also just down to be with her friends?

1375
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:32,160
Speaker 1: And so if this is truly who she is, where

1376
01:05:32,200 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: she's like I love to, like get dressed up, have

1377
01:05:34,880 --> 01:05:37,960
Speaker 1: a cute purse, have a drink in my hand. If

1378
01:05:38,000 --> 01:05:40,080
Speaker 1: that's who she is, then she's portraying that. But I

1379
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,520
Speaker 1: think it's possible and probable that there's more to her

1380
01:05:44,040 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 1: and that like, she looks great in all the pictures,

1381
01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: but they are a little bit one note.

1382
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 2: So like in sweats, if you spend time in sweats

1383
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:53,000
Speaker 2: or not, Yeah, were.

1384
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,400
Speaker 1: Like maybe like her with her family being a little

1385
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,880
Speaker 1: bit more like girl next door. And so this is

1386
01:05:57,920 --> 01:06:00,680
Speaker 1: another one where I'm like, I don't know who she is.

1387
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:02,640
Speaker 1: So maybe this is accurate, and maybe she's like, this

1388
01:06:02,720 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: is what I'm doing right now, but I think she's

1389
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:07,400
Speaker 1: maybe lacking a little bit of that variety. But I

1390
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:10,040
Speaker 1: would say, like this is like a good profile with

1391
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 1: potential for a little bit more variety and maybe a

1392
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: little more specificity. But I think she is like beautiful

1393
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:20,000
Speaker 1: and chose great pictures and we do get a sense

1394
01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:22,760
Speaker 1: of who she is and what she likes.

1395
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,439
Speaker 2: Fantastic, great, Thank you, Logan, thank you so much. Deep

1396
01:06:26,480 --> 01:06:29,720
Speaker 2: reading very well, Yeah, very deep. I love it. I mean,

1397
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:31,800
Speaker 2: what you just showed us is that someone could be

1398
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 2: working on that first profile and have that up there

1399
01:06:35,360 --> 01:06:37,880
Speaker 2: and maybe get very few matches, not because they're not

1400
01:06:37,920 --> 01:06:40,480
Speaker 2: a great guy and not a great person and have

1401
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,200
Speaker 2: so much to offer, but just because that's the bio,

1402
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:46,800
Speaker 2: that's the resume that people are seeing and there's nothing

1403
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 2: for them to engage on. I really appreciate what you

1404
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,640
Speaker 2: said about making it easy for men, because I mean

1405
01:06:51,680 --> 01:06:54,360
Speaker 2: I think about even back when I had to approach someone,

1406
01:06:54,760 --> 01:06:56,640
Speaker 2: it was so much more easy to approach a woman

1407
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:59,320
Speaker 2: who made it easier for me to approach her, And

1408
01:06:59,440 --> 01:07:01,560
Speaker 2: it would take so much courage to approach someone who

1409
01:07:01,600 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 2: gave you no signals whatsoever. And so even for her

1410
01:07:04,200 --> 01:07:06,919
Speaker 2: if she really wants people to lean in, giving them

1411
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:09,680
Speaker 2: that opportunity to say, let's have a cooking competition or

1412
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 2: whatever it was, or whatever it may be. I think

1413
01:07:11,880 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 2: that invitation for action, that initiation is so important.

1414
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:18,120
Speaker 1: Right, It's like, it's not a test, it's a layup,

1415
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 1: like make it easy for the other person to know

1416
01:07:20,680 --> 01:07:22,960
Speaker 1: what to engage you on. And so if you aren't

1417
01:07:22,960 --> 01:07:25,040
Speaker 1: getting the number of matches you want, first thing I

1418
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,520
Speaker 1: would do is make your profile as good as possible.

1419
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:30,439
Speaker 1: Show it to some friends, get some new pictures, Say

1420
01:07:30,480 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: to your closest friend, is the person who you see

1421
01:07:32,800 --> 01:07:34,200
Speaker 1: in front of you the same person you see in

1422
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:36,800
Speaker 1: this profile, and if not, change it. The second thing

1423
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:40,280
Speaker 1: I would do is send comments instead of just likes.

1424
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 1: So this really trains the algorithm to show who you're

1425
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:46,760
Speaker 1: looking for. Comments are much more likely to lead to

1426
01:07:46,960 --> 01:07:49,200
Speaker 1: a date than just sending a like, And it just

1427
01:07:49,280 --> 01:07:51,880
Speaker 1: shows more effort. Right, we're talking about chalant dating, so

1428
01:07:52,200 --> 01:07:55,320
Speaker 1: put more effort in hinge actually just launched something within

1429
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,920
Speaker 1: the past few months called convos Starters, and it's a

1430
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,880
Speaker 1: way to basically use AI not to write the message

1431
01:08:01,880 --> 01:08:04,040
Speaker 1: for you, but just to kind of spark inspiration where

1432
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:07,400
Speaker 1: it's like if it's a girl playing chess, you know,

1433
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: there might be like a little bubble that pops up

1434
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 1: that says like checkers versus chess, and then you can say, oh, yeah,

1435
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:13,600
Speaker 1: that's a good idea. I'm going to ask about backgammon.

1436
01:08:13,920 --> 01:08:15,920
Speaker 1: And so it's kind of just like that little coach

1437
01:08:15,960 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: in your pocket that's telling you, like, if you're stuck

1438
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: on what to say, here are a few ideas, and

1439
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 1: it has it like for each picture and each prompt.

1440
01:08:22,280 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 2: We hear so many people say that there's no good

1441
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:26,479
Speaker 2: people on the apps, Well what are they missing?

1442
01:08:26,840 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so complicated, Like I hear that all the time,

1443
01:08:29,960 --> 01:08:32,599
Speaker 1: and I think there's plenty of good people out there.

1444
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 1: There's just all these misconnections. And I don't think it's

1445
01:08:35,240 --> 01:08:37,680
Speaker 1: just about apps. I think it's about everyday life. Like

1446
01:08:37,680 --> 01:08:41,080
Speaker 1: I feel like we're just missing each other. And this

1447
01:08:41,160 --> 01:08:43,040
Speaker 1: has become kind of an obsession of mine. Have you

1448
01:08:43,080 --> 01:08:44,679
Speaker 1: heard of the term friction maxing.

1449
01:08:45,120 --> 01:08:47,839
Speaker 2: I've heard of it, Please explain it. What is friction maxing?

1450
01:08:47,920 --> 01:08:49,320
Speaker 1: So this is something I've been thinking about for a

1451
01:08:49,360 --> 01:08:52,040
Speaker 1: few years, but there was this viral article about friction

1452
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: maxing and I was like, yes, Like that's the word

1453
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:56,760
Speaker 1: that I've been looking for. And so friction maxing is

1454
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,840
Speaker 1: choosing to put more inconvenience into your life in order

1455
01:09:00,880 --> 01:09:03,880
Speaker 1: to have more human connection. Go to the grocery store

1456
01:09:04,040 --> 01:09:07,280
Speaker 1: instead of ordering instacart, you know, take the subway where

1457
01:09:07,280 --> 01:09:10,320
Speaker 1: you're going to interact with people, overtaking an uber. And

1458
01:09:10,360 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: it's like these tech companies have kind of convinced us

1459
01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:15,400
Speaker 1: your life should be as convenient as possible and you

1460
01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:17,960
Speaker 1: will be happy when you reduce friction. And I think

1461
01:09:17,960 --> 01:09:21,120
Speaker 1: that's a lie. Like, think about the definition of friction.

1462
01:09:21,200 --> 01:09:23,559
Speaker 1: It's when two things rub against each other.

1463
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 2: And if you think.

1464
01:09:24,479 --> 01:09:27,200
Speaker 1: About that in the real world, it's like rubbing shoulders

1465
01:09:27,200 --> 01:09:31,200
Speaker 1: with someone in line at an event or just meeting

1466
01:09:31,240 --> 01:09:34,000
Speaker 1: new people. And so I think that we've become obsessed

1467
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,800
Speaker 1: with self care and boundaries and like those things are great,

1468
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,160
Speaker 1: but I think it's a little out of control where

1469
01:09:40,200 --> 01:09:43,560
Speaker 1: self care often is selfish. This is my schedule and

1470
01:09:43,640 --> 01:09:45,599
Speaker 1: we can't hang out unless you can definitely do it

1471
01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,760
Speaker 1: on my schedule, or like, I go to bed at

1472
01:09:47,800 --> 01:09:49,760
Speaker 1: eight pm every night, so I could never go on

1473
01:09:49,800 --> 01:09:51,640
Speaker 1: a date with you in the evening. It's like, in

1474
01:09:51,720 --> 01:09:55,840
Speaker 1: kind of protecting yourself from discomfort, you're really missing the

1475
01:09:55,960 --> 01:09:58,120
Speaker 1: chance to interact with people. And like, I'm just seeing

1476
01:09:58,120 --> 01:09:59,759
Speaker 1: this all the time, and I see it with myself.

1477
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:02,880
Speaker 1: There just is that urge what's the most convenient option?

1478
01:10:03,400 --> 01:10:05,960
Speaker 1: And I'm really trying to fight it in my own life,

1479
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,000
Speaker 1: adding more friction in being more around other people, fighting

1480
01:10:10,040 --> 01:10:14,000
Speaker 1: the isolation. And so I think that when you approach

1481
01:10:14,040 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: someone in public, it is riskier and you might get rejected,

1482
01:10:17,280 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: but you're creating friction that might lead to a great result.

1483
01:10:20,680 --> 01:10:22,800
Speaker 1: And so I think all of us have to increase

1484
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:26,479
Speaker 1: our ability to withstand discomfort because it's going to lead

1485
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:30,080
Speaker 1: to great stories and so many more relationships.

1486
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, well said, well said. Can you you explain friction

1487
01:10:33,320 --> 01:10:36,840
Speaker 2: maxing Shalan dating? Can you explain what rose jail is

1488
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:40,080
Speaker 2: and why people experiencing not my favorite topic? Yes?

1489
01:10:40,439 --> 01:10:42,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so rose jeal is something that you know, I

1490
01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:44,120
Speaker 1: don't hear about it as as much now, but a

1491
01:10:44,120 --> 01:10:47,000
Speaker 1: few years ago where people feel like, oh the people

1492
01:10:47,080 --> 01:10:49,400
Speaker 1: that I want to see on hinge, I have to

1493
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,960
Speaker 1: buy money or spend money on a rose to get them.

1494
01:10:54,479 --> 01:10:56,280
Speaker 1: And so what I would say is like the rose

1495
01:10:56,320 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 1: system does work, and that we see that people that

1496
01:10:59,720 --> 01:11:02,320
Speaker 1: send rose are two times as likely as other people

1497
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 1: to actually get to a date.

1498
01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, that sounds like good. It's what's interesting about the

1499
01:11:07,479 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 2: friction Maxine. Going back to that, it's almost just helpful

1500
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:13,800
Speaker 2: to be out there and bumping into people and meeting people,

1501
01:11:13,880 --> 01:11:16,760
Speaker 2: because you actually become better at conversation, You get find

1502
01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:19,960
Speaker 2: new things to talk about, you have more experiences. We

1503
01:11:20,040 --> 01:11:22,160
Speaker 2: have a loneliness epidemic in the world anyway, and so

1504
01:11:22,280 --> 01:11:25,280
Speaker 2: the ability to just be in public places and bump

1505
01:11:25,280 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 2: into people and and other things like, I mean, I'm

1506
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:31,200
Speaker 2: pickleball's biggest promoter, but it's I have made so many

1507
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,799
Speaker 2: casual pickleball friends just by playing pickleball at public courts,

1508
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:37,320
Speaker 2: and it's just one of those things where you just

1509
01:11:37,360 --> 01:11:39,120
Speaker 2: start a game up with someone and you get to

1510
01:11:39,160 --> 01:11:41,280
Speaker 2: know each other and next thing you know, you're hanging out.

1511
01:11:41,320 --> 01:11:43,360
Speaker 2: And I feel the same is true. I was at

1512
01:11:43,400 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 2: a my friend runs a really cool acting class, and

1513
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,040
Speaker 2: he asked me to come check it out and I

1514
01:11:48,040 --> 01:11:50,720
Speaker 2: went a couple of weeks ago just to observe, and

1515
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,760
Speaker 2: everyone in his class, like you could tell they just

1516
01:11:52,760 --> 01:11:55,160
Speaker 2: have this amazing community. I was like, I wish everyone

1517
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:57,320
Speaker 2: came to this class because there was such a great

1518
01:11:57,400 --> 01:11:59,519
Speaker 2: energy there and people are encouraging each other. They were kind,

1519
01:11:59,560 --> 01:12:01,240
Speaker 2: and I was like, you could easily find someone here

1520
01:12:01,240 --> 01:12:03,040
Speaker 2: to match with. I was just thinking about all the

1521
01:12:03,080 --> 01:12:09,120
Speaker 2: possibilities of places where there is community built around something singular,

1522
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,439
Speaker 2: almost like we know that just you know, thirty to

1523
01:12:12,439 --> 01:12:14,600
Speaker 2: forty years ago, people to meet at their church or

1524
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,160
Speaker 2: place of worship, people to meet in the building they

1525
01:12:17,200 --> 01:12:20,800
Speaker 2: lived in, Like you needed almost this singular place where

1526
01:12:20,840 --> 01:12:23,240
Speaker 2: you congregated for a particular need, which is how we

1527
01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:26,439
Speaker 2: met people, whether it was a Sunday roast or a

1528
01:12:26,439 --> 01:12:29,200
Speaker 2: family dinner and family friends were invited. And it almost

1529
01:12:29,200 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 2: feels like we've lost that. And I think that's what

1530
01:12:31,240 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 2: you're encouraging people to do.

1531
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely. And there was this quote going around last year,

1532
01:12:35,479 --> 01:12:38,760
Speaker 1: the cost of community is inconvenience, And I think people

1533
01:12:38,800 --> 01:12:41,320
Speaker 1: are just so obsessed with making their lives frictionless and

1534
01:12:41,400 --> 01:12:44,720
Speaker 1: not ever inconveniencing themselves that they forget that. Yeah, it's

1535
01:12:44,720 --> 01:12:47,040
Speaker 1: not that fun to help your friend move, but that's

1536
01:12:47,120 --> 01:12:49,120
Speaker 1: part of being a friend and being in a community.

1537
01:12:49,160 --> 01:12:50,760
Speaker 1: And I would say in my life, I've sort of

1538
01:12:50,840 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 1: taken this to the extreme. So during the pandemic, my

1539
01:12:54,400 --> 01:12:57,040
Speaker 1: husband and I moved into this commune with twenty of

1540
01:12:57,040 --> 01:13:00,000
Speaker 1: our friends, and so we each had our own little apartment,

1541
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 1: but you have twenty people living together and having dinner

1542
01:13:03,280 --> 01:13:05,759
Speaker 1: together every night. And those were some of the happiest

1543
01:13:05,840 --> 01:13:08,519
Speaker 1: years of my life. And yes, sometimes there was friction.

1544
01:13:08,680 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: You know, it was twenty twenty. We had to have

1545
01:13:10,240 --> 01:13:14,280
Speaker 1: these like long, boring, antagonistic meetings about COVID protocol. But

1546
01:13:14,680 --> 01:13:16,960
Speaker 1: that was the price that you pay to live with

1547
01:13:17,000 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 1: your friends. And I think that we constantly choose what

1548
01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:23,320
Speaker 1: we think is best for ourselves, but what we really

1549
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:27,560
Speaker 1: do is make things convenient, and then we are more isolated.

1550
01:13:27,640 --> 01:13:30,400
Speaker 1: And like when you're at home, behind your screen, you're

1551
01:13:30,439 --> 01:13:32,519
Speaker 1: not out there meeting new people. And it's not just

1552
01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,880
Speaker 1: about meeting the guy you're going to marry. It's about

1553
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:36,840
Speaker 1: meeting the girl who has a brother who has a

1554
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:38,600
Speaker 1: friend who you're going to meet if you all go

1555
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,559
Speaker 1: to that festival together. And I think that like if

1556
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:43,880
Speaker 1: you tie a lot of the strings together that we're

1557
01:13:43,920 --> 01:13:47,559
Speaker 1: talking about, Like there's a loneliness epidemic. There's men and

1558
01:13:47,600 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 1: women who are thinking that the other person wants something

1559
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:54,200
Speaker 1: different from them. And like, the more times that you

1560
01:13:54,240 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: put yourself in places where you're going to meet someone,

1561
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:00,719
Speaker 1: the more friction you're creating, the more opportunity for connection

1562
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:03,200
Speaker 1: that you're taking. And I hope that that's a big

1563
01:14:03,240 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 1: message that people take away from this conversation is be

1564
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,120
Speaker 1: a chalant dat put your effort out there, be willing

1565
01:14:09,160 --> 01:14:12,760
Speaker 1: to get rejected, friction max put yourself in more situations

1566
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:15,479
Speaker 1: where it's not convenient, but you're going to meet more people,

1567
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,759
Speaker 1: And like, isn't that what life is really about?

1568
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:20,840
Speaker 2: Totally? It's so true, And I think that's it feels

1569
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:22,760
Speaker 2: like the ethos of this whole conversation, which is like

1570
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:28,160
Speaker 2: seek discomfort, become more resilient, live with the challenge that

1571
01:14:28,560 --> 01:14:30,960
Speaker 2: there is a high rejection proportion of just finding the

1572
01:14:31,000 --> 01:14:33,000
Speaker 2: one and the one thing I like to remind people

1573
01:14:33,000 --> 01:14:36,679
Speaker 2: also is that if everyone liked you and you liked everyone,

1574
01:14:37,080 --> 01:14:39,439
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be that valuable of a discovery. Like the

1575
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:42,360
Speaker 2: beautiful thing about love is that you found someone who

1576
01:14:42,400 --> 01:14:44,320
Speaker 2: wants to work with you on it and you want

1577
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:46,160
Speaker 2: to work with them on it, And how special is that?

1578
01:14:46,439 --> 01:14:48,200
Speaker 2: And if you felt that with every person you went

1579
01:14:48,240 --> 01:14:50,759
Speaker 2: out on a date with, or if every person responded

1580
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:53,400
Speaker 2: to you positively, well, then we wouldn't value love as much.

1581
01:14:53,439 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 2: The reason why we value love and long term relationships

1582
01:14:56,800 --> 01:15:00,800
Speaker 2: is because they're rare, because they're special, they're hard, they're

1583
01:15:00,840 --> 01:15:03,080
Speaker 2: not something that you feel freely available with everyone.

1584
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And I do this work and my mission is

1585
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:08,920
Speaker 1: really to help people find love because I think it's

1586
01:15:08,960 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 1: one of the most important things that you can experience.

1587
01:15:11,280 --> 01:15:14,360
Speaker 1: And who you choose as your partner, that's your board

1588
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:17,080
Speaker 1: of directors, that's a person advising you right like, you

1589
01:15:17,200 --> 01:15:19,519
Speaker 1: become the average of the people that you're around, and

1590
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,839
Speaker 1: your partner is going to be one of those people.

1591
01:15:22,200 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 1: And so I think that it really deserves a lot

1592
01:15:24,200 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: of time, a lot of effort, and a lot of care,

1593
01:15:27,640 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 1: and that the more that we can put that effort

1594
01:15:30,280 --> 01:15:32,639
Speaker 1: in and not be afraid of it, the more great

1595
01:15:32,680 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 1: relationships we're going to have.

1596
01:15:34,200 --> 01:15:36,040
Speaker 2: Do you believe in right person, wrong time?

1597
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:38,800
Speaker 1: That's funny that you asked that, because I've been thinking

1598
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,400
Speaker 1: about it lately. So you know, this is kind of

1599
01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:44,120
Speaker 1: a thing that people say, like timing is everything, and

1600
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:46,679
Speaker 1: I used to not believe that. I used to believe

1601
01:15:47,080 --> 01:15:49,400
Speaker 1: if it was the right match, the person would make

1602
01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:52,080
Speaker 1: at the right time. And my thinking on that has changed,

1603
01:15:52,479 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: where if you're dating someone but they're in medical school

1604
01:15:55,240 --> 01:15:56,960
Speaker 1: and they really don't have time for you, I don't

1605
01:15:56,960 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 1: think it's going to work out. So I would say,

1606
01:15:59,040 --> 01:16:02,440
Speaker 1: the right person the wrong time is not the right person.

1607
01:16:02,400 --> 01:16:05,400
Speaker 2: Got it. Yeah, it's a question I love to ask

1608
01:16:05,439 --> 01:16:09,360
Speaker 2: people because I feel like these are those maybe the romanticizers, yeah,

1609
01:16:09,400 --> 01:16:12,040
Speaker 2: who have this way of thinking about something and it

1610
01:16:12,120 --> 01:16:13,479
Speaker 2: keeps them trapped. Yeah.

1611
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,559
Speaker 1: Like I was just asked this question the other week

1612
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,800
Speaker 1: where this person was like, oh, I was dating this guy,

1613
01:16:17,880 --> 01:16:20,360
Speaker 1: but he recently got out of a relationship and then

1614
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: we were fighting a lot and I ended things. Do

1615
01:16:23,439 --> 01:16:25,479
Speaker 1: you think it was timing? And I was like, no,

1616
01:16:25,520 --> 01:16:27,120
Speaker 1: I think you were fighting a lot because you weren't

1617
01:16:27,120 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 1: a good fit, not because of timing. And sometimes we

1618
01:16:29,760 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 1: can get really obsessed with timing. But I think that,

1619
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:36,000
Speaker 1: like you know, in behavioral science, so much is the environment.

1620
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: It's like, if the environment that you're dating in is

1621
01:16:38,439 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 1: that they're not ready, Well, that means that you shouldn't

1622
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:42,600
Speaker 1: be in a relationship.

1623
01:16:59,320 --> 01:17:01,280
Speaker 2: Do people relationships too fast?

1624
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 1: Now, yes, I think that people give up too easily.

1625
01:17:04,400 --> 01:17:06,400
Speaker 1: This is what we were talking about. So remember there's

1626
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:09,080
Speaker 1: the work at out mindset, the idea that, of course

1627
01:17:09,160 --> 01:17:12,400
Speaker 1: relationships take effort, and so when you hit that inevitable

1628
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:16,120
Speaker 1: rough spot, don't say, well, we disagreed on this, so

1629
01:17:16,240 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: instead of having a hard conversation, I'll just end it.

1630
01:17:18,800 --> 01:17:20,640
Speaker 1: And that really goes back to the ethos of what

1631
01:17:20,640 --> 01:17:26,400
Speaker 1: we've been talking about, Like, understand that relationships require inconvenience, discomfort, friction,

1632
01:17:26,880 --> 01:17:29,240
Speaker 1: and so when you have that first fight, say wow,

1633
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:32,760
Speaker 1: I guess you feel really strongly about that, and let's

1634
01:17:32,760 --> 01:17:35,439
Speaker 1: have a conversation about it, versus being like, this is

1635
01:17:35,520 --> 01:17:38,759
Speaker 1: too much work. And so I would say, yes, dating

1636
01:17:38,760 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: apps provide more options to meet more people, but don't

1637
01:17:41,960 --> 01:17:45,080
Speaker 1: treat people like their disposable because that's just a recipe

1638
01:17:45,160 --> 01:17:48,599
Speaker 1: for sort of burning and churning relationships. And really understand

1639
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:51,719
Speaker 1: that each relationship is an opportunity to invest in someone.

1640
01:17:52,080 --> 01:17:54,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it goes back to what you were saying

1641
01:17:54,080 --> 01:17:57,760
Speaker 2: earlier about moving towards the workout mindsets. You mentioned like

1642
01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:01,120
Speaker 2: just it's almost like you're getting to practice what a

1643
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:05,160
Speaker 2: real relationship looks like, and that first difficult moment is

1644
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:07,840
Speaker 2: like this brilliant moment to actually realize what skills you

1645
01:18:07,840 --> 01:18:10,720
Speaker 2: do have, what skills you don't have, what attitude that

1646
01:18:10,760 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 2: person's willing to come at. I was wondering, I love

1647
01:18:13,880 --> 01:18:16,080
Speaker 2: that you have such I mean, your advice logan is

1648
01:18:16,080 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 2: so brilliant, and it's no surprise with the incredible work

1649
01:18:19,000 --> 01:18:22,519
Speaker 2: that you do online and offline, but I yeah, I

1650
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:25,240
Speaker 2: really mean it. It's so great and it feels so

1651
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:29,639
Speaker 2: real and actionable and genuine to It's not playing a game.

1652
01:18:29,680 --> 01:18:32,799
Speaker 2: It's not some manipulation strategy. It's not you know, it's

1653
01:18:32,840 --> 01:18:36,839
Speaker 2: really authentic when it comes to evaluating a great date, because,

1654
01:18:36,880 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: as you said, we usually get distracted by the spark.

1655
01:18:40,040 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 2: If the spark is not there, we're probably not going

1656
01:18:41,960 --> 01:18:44,760
Speaker 2: to go out on another date. And if we force

1657
01:18:44,800 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 2: ourselves to god on a second day and there's no

1658
01:18:46,320 --> 01:18:48,160
Speaker 2: spark again, we're probably not going to go on a third.

1659
01:18:48,439 --> 01:18:51,720
Speaker 2: I think we have very limited tools to evaluate a

1660
01:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 2: successful date, but I know you have an approach that

1661
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,080
Speaker 2: is far more comprehensive. What should people be asking after

1662
01:18:58,160 --> 01:18:59,320
Speaker 2: they go on a date with someone.

1663
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:01,920
Speaker 1: I have this tool called the post date eight and

1664
01:19:01,960 --> 01:19:04,559
Speaker 1: these are eight questions to ask yourself after a date.

1665
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 1: And the research behind this is really based on gratitude journals.

1666
01:19:09,680 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: So if every day you have to write down at

1667
01:19:12,160 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 1: the end of the day five things you were grateful for,

1668
01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:17,439
Speaker 1: it changes how you live your life because throughout the

1669
01:19:17,560 --> 01:19:20,599
Speaker 1: day you're looking for those salt things and you're appreciating them,

1670
01:19:20,680 --> 01:19:23,080
Speaker 1: right like I made the bus when I almost could

1671
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:25,479
Speaker 1: have missed it, or it was really sunny and I

1672
01:19:25,520 --> 01:19:27,920
Speaker 1: got a table outside. So it trains your brand to

1673
01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:30,519
Speaker 1: look for the positives, and the same thing is true

1674
01:19:30,560 --> 01:19:33,280
Speaker 1: with this post date eight. So these are eight questions

1675
01:19:33,280 --> 01:19:36,000
Speaker 1: that you ask yourself after a date, and they are

1676
01:19:36,000 --> 01:19:39,240
Speaker 1: things like what side of me did the person bring out?

1677
01:19:39,520 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 1: How did I feel in my body around them? Did

1678
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:45,479
Speaker 1: I feel relaxed or did I feel uptight? Did I

1679
01:19:45,520 --> 01:19:49,400
Speaker 1: feel heard? Did I feel attractive? Did they make me laugh?

1680
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,840
Speaker 1: And what's really important is that these questions are not

1681
01:19:53,000 --> 01:19:55,120
Speaker 1: are they good enough for me? Is he hot enough?

1682
01:19:55,160 --> 01:19:56,679
Speaker 1: Does she have an impressive enough job?

1683
01:19:56,760 --> 01:19:56,960
Speaker 2: There?

1684
01:19:57,439 --> 01:19:59,800
Speaker 1: Who am I around them? And it goes back to

1685
01:19:59,840 --> 01:20:03,360
Speaker 1: what we've said about dating for the dynamic versus dating

1686
01:20:03,400 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: for the resume. And so there's this idea of dating experientially,

1687
01:20:09,439 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: what is the experience of being around you versus dating evaluatively,

1688
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:15,720
Speaker 1: dating to see if you're good enough for me?

1689
01:20:16,680 --> 01:20:20,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's almost like you're either testing them or

1690
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,160
Speaker 2: you're getting carried away. And what you're saying is that

1691
01:20:23,240 --> 01:20:27,000
Speaker 2: the evaluation eight questions allow you to check in on

1692
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:29,640
Speaker 2: yourself and see how do I feel like, how is

1693
01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 2: this going? And how is this for real? Is what

1694
01:20:32,240 --> 01:20:34,960
Speaker 2: it feels like being together rather than what it feels

1695
01:20:35,000 --> 01:20:38,280
Speaker 2: like being with their resume, being with their data, being

1696
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:40,800
Speaker 2: with you know, And so yeah, we're either testing them,

1697
01:20:40,840 --> 01:20:42,160
Speaker 2: like are they good enough for me? Are they not?

1698
01:20:42,240 --> 01:20:45,439
Speaker 2: Are they good enough for my friends? Or sometimes we're

1699
01:20:45,479 --> 01:20:47,040
Speaker 2: just so lost in our own world of like will

1700
01:20:47,040 --> 01:20:49,160
Speaker 2: they like me? Do they like me? Right, we're in

1701
01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,000
Speaker 2: that opposite space. If am I good enough to hesitate.

1702
01:20:51,680 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 1: It, it's not did I find them attractive? It's did

1703
01:20:54,680 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 1: I feel attractive around them? I feel like that's such

1704
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:00,360
Speaker 1: a big shift for people. And going back to three,

1705
01:21:00,360 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 1: miss of the spark, So many times people miss an

1706
01:21:03,560 --> 01:21:07,600
Speaker 1: amazing person because they're not sparky and so my antidote

1707
01:21:07,680 --> 01:21:09,880
Speaker 1: to the spark is to look for the slow burn,

1708
01:21:10,280 --> 01:21:12,360
Speaker 1: and the slow burn is the person who may not

1709
01:21:12,479 --> 01:21:16,000
Speaker 1: be initially as charismatic or sparky, but they would be

1710
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:18,840
Speaker 1: an amazing partner long term. I think this is one

1711
01:21:18,880 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: of the greatest contributions I've had to the discourse. Is

1712
01:21:22,040 --> 01:21:24,080
Speaker 1: I get so many emails from people that are like,

1713
01:21:24,360 --> 01:21:26,840
Speaker 1: I followed what you said, I looked for the slow burn.

1714
01:21:26,880 --> 01:21:29,519
Speaker 1: I'm engaged with slow burn, and I'm so happy this

1715
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:31,800
Speaker 1: is the kind of guy I would have overlooked. And

1716
01:21:32,120 --> 01:21:35,439
Speaker 1: way to use the post date eight is to do

1717
01:21:35,560 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 1: it after each date and to see over time do

1718
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 1: I like them more and more? Because the sparky people

1719
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,040
Speaker 1: often burn out quickly, and maybe after the third date

1720
01:21:44,120 --> 01:21:46,360
Speaker 1: you might say, oh, you know, like it turns out

1721
01:21:46,439 --> 01:21:48,479
Speaker 1: he's like a little narcissistic, or we don't really have

1722
01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,400
Speaker 1: that much to talk about, whereas the slow burn person,

1723
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:54,360
Speaker 1: each time you date them, you were more curious about them,

1724
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,360
Speaker 1: you like them more and more. So it's a journaling

1725
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:00,960
Speaker 1: exercise really, to track how you feel with different people

1726
01:22:01,080 --> 01:22:04,080
Speaker 1: and if your interest in them grows or decreases over time.

1727
01:22:04,320 --> 01:22:06,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that approach. I really hope. I really

1728
01:22:06,680 --> 01:22:09,680
Speaker 2: really hope everyone's listening and watching applies that I think

1729
01:22:09,720 --> 01:22:13,080
Speaker 2: would change everything for them. Logan, I want to go

1730
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:15,000
Speaker 2: a bit more philosophical with you, a bit more like

1731
01:22:15,120 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 2: high higher level of like how do you define love?

1732
01:22:19,240 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: When you ask the question, I got a really strong

1733
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:24,439
Speaker 1: internal feeling where I just heard the word acceptance, and

1734
01:22:24,439 --> 01:22:26,160
Speaker 1: I think it reminds me of what you said about

1735
01:22:26,200 --> 01:22:28,760
Speaker 1: you and Roddy, where she really accepts you for who

1736
01:22:28,920 --> 01:22:31,640
Speaker 1: you are and you don't feel judgment. And when I

1737
01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:34,000
Speaker 1: think about the people that love me, I think about

1738
01:22:34,560 --> 01:22:38,799
Speaker 1: my parents, my sister, some of my best friends, my husband,

1739
01:22:38,920 --> 01:22:42,560
Speaker 1: my daughter, where it's like you're not under the microscope.

1740
01:22:42,640 --> 01:22:44,800
Speaker 1: They're not deciding like do I want to see you

1741
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,160
Speaker 1: again or not. They're really just like I love you

1742
01:22:48,439 --> 01:22:51,760
Speaker 1: in all your messiness. And I remember one time I

1743
01:22:51,800 --> 01:22:53,559
Speaker 1: was talking to my friend Kristen and I was like,

1744
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,720
Speaker 1: you know, sometimes i'm a little avoidant when I have

1745
01:22:56,760 --> 01:22:58,920
Speaker 1: a hard situation. She's like, duh, we all know that,

1746
01:22:59,360 --> 01:23:01,360
Speaker 1: and like I got embarrassed, but I was like what

1747
01:23:01,400 --> 01:23:04,000
Speaker 1: she's saying is like I see you in your shadow

1748
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:06,599
Speaker 1: and your light, and I love you for all.

1749
01:23:06,439 --> 01:23:07,280
Speaker 2: Of those things.

1750
01:23:07,640 --> 01:23:10,800
Speaker 1: And I think that acceptance and belonging is really what

1751
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:13,360
Speaker 1: makes us feel safe. And I think one of the

1752
01:23:13,400 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: reasons why I've had the career I've had, which I

1753
01:23:15,439 --> 01:23:17,880
Speaker 1: feel really proud of, is because my husband is such

1754
01:23:17,920 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: a rock and I feel so much acceptance from him.

1755
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,200
Speaker 1: His love is really unconditional, and like, when you have

1756
01:23:23,320 --> 01:23:26,760
Speaker 1: this foundation of unconditional love, like you can go fly

1757
01:23:27,080 --> 01:23:30,040
Speaker 1: high and like take a lot of risk and risk

1758
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,560
Speaker 1: rejection because like you come home to this really beautiful

1759
01:23:33,640 --> 01:23:37,719
Speaker 1: foundation of acceptance. And when people want to find love,

1760
01:23:37,800 --> 01:23:40,240
Speaker 1: like I want that for them so badly, because I

1761
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:42,800
Speaker 1: also want them to tuck into their bed at night

1762
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:46,320
Speaker 1: and like have that person that is unconditionally loving them.

1763
01:23:46,360 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: And that's really my wish for so many people.

1764
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,719
Speaker 2: That's a beautiful Lonsa. I love that is love enough.

1765
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:55,200
Speaker 1: You need love, but it's not enough, so it's required,

1766
01:23:55,240 --> 01:23:58,400
Speaker 1: but it's not the only thing. And what you also

1767
01:23:58,520 --> 01:24:02,240
Speaker 1: need is sustained effort. And you know, we're at the

1768
01:24:02,280 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 1: age where a lot of our friends are having young kids, right,

1769
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,400
Speaker 1: And I get so many questions from clients of mine,

1770
01:24:08,400 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: close friends of mine, et cetera, where they're like, I

1771
01:24:10,920 --> 01:24:14,600
Speaker 1: just don't feel as connected and one of my mentors,

1772
01:24:14,640 --> 01:24:17,080
Speaker 1: Eli Finkel, he has this great book called The All

1773
01:24:17,200 --> 01:24:20,160
Speaker 1: or Nothing Marriage, and he talks about different times in

1774
01:24:20,200 --> 01:24:23,760
Speaker 1: a relationship, and he has this great word recalibration. So

1775
01:24:24,160 --> 01:24:27,759
Speaker 1: sometimes if someone's dealing with a hard situation at work,

1776
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:31,160
Speaker 1: or a difficult moment with their parents, or you know,

1777
01:24:31,240 --> 01:24:34,400
Speaker 1: having young kids at home, you have to recalibrate your expectations,

1778
01:24:34,439 --> 01:24:36,200
Speaker 1: like maybe it's not going to be the most fun

1779
01:24:36,280 --> 01:24:38,200
Speaker 1: year of your marriage. Maybe you're going to have sex

1780
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 1: a little less often, maybe you're going to fight a

1781
01:24:40,479 --> 01:24:43,960
Speaker 1: little bit more. So recalibrate your expectations in those hard

1782
01:24:44,000 --> 01:24:47,680
Speaker 1: moments instead of like exiting, just understand that it's going

1783
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:49,760
Speaker 1: to be a slightly bumpier ride. And so I think

1784
01:24:49,800 --> 01:24:54,479
Speaker 1: that true relationships last through some really hard years, sometimes

1785
01:24:54,479 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: some infidelity, and that love is enough to get you

1786
01:24:57,400 --> 01:24:59,679
Speaker 1: into relationship, but it's not enough to keep.

1787
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 2: You in it. I love the recalibration and it's so

1788
01:25:02,800 --> 01:25:07,280
Speaker 2: fascinating how we think things should stay the same through

1789
01:25:07,360 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 2: all this change. Right, most of us want our relationship

1790
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,160
Speaker 2: to stay exactly the same, no matter how much change

1791
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:18,040
Speaker 2: we're going through, whether that's moving country, changing job, having

1792
01:25:18,040 --> 01:25:21,519
Speaker 2: a child, all these major transitions in life which naturally

1793
01:25:21,680 --> 01:25:26,519
Speaker 2: require us to re establish what our connection pattern is,

1794
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,240
Speaker 2: what are the amount of time we spend together is

1795
01:25:29,280 --> 01:25:30,720
Speaker 2: all of that, And all of a sudden we just

1796
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:32,439
Speaker 2: throw out the window and say, well, if you love me,

1797
01:25:32,920 --> 01:25:34,720
Speaker 2: it should be this way, it should be this way

1798
01:25:34,760 --> 01:25:37,719
Speaker 2: always and forever. But how would that even be possible.

1799
01:25:37,760 --> 01:25:41,400
Speaker 2: It's fascinating that it's perplexing that were that way, But

1800
01:25:41,400 --> 01:25:44,599
Speaker 2: it's fascinating too that we think things staying the same

1801
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:45,559
Speaker 2: is a sign of love.

1802
01:25:46,200 --> 01:25:49,920
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And there's a great behavioral science principle for this,

1803
01:25:49,920 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 1: this transitive fallacy where we sort of think the way

1804
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,599
Speaker 1: that it feels when something changes is the way it'll

1805
01:25:55,600 --> 01:25:58,040
Speaker 1: feel forever. So we think that falling in love is

1806
01:25:58,080 --> 01:25:59,960
Speaker 1: the same as being in love, but it's totally differ

1807
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,840
Speaker 1: It goes back to adaptation, right, We adapt to the

1808
01:26:02,840 --> 01:26:05,800
Speaker 1: things around us. So winning the lottery will feel good

1809
01:26:05,800 --> 01:26:08,040
Speaker 1: for a certain period of time, and then you know,

1810
01:26:08,120 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 1: being wealthy is a different state. And so if you're

1811
01:26:10,920 --> 01:26:13,760
Speaker 1: in a relationship and it doesn't feel as intense as

1812
01:26:13,800 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 1: when you first fell in love, that's the natural cycle.

1813
01:26:17,479 --> 01:26:20,120
Speaker 1: And if you just keep being a person that breaks

1814
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:22,680
Speaker 1: up and searches for that falling in love again, you're

1815
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:24,200
Speaker 1: sort of missing the bigger picture.

1816
01:26:25,400 --> 01:26:28,519
Speaker 2: I lost one of these what makes a good partner?

1817
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 1: I think there's so many things that go into being

1818
01:26:30,760 --> 01:26:32,680
Speaker 1: a good partner. So I just talked about love is

1819
01:26:32,720 --> 01:26:36,599
Speaker 1: being accepted, So I think accepting your partner. Sometimes people

1820
01:26:36,640 --> 01:26:38,559
Speaker 1: are like, do you think people change? And I think

1821
01:26:38,600 --> 01:26:41,000
Speaker 1: my answer is sometimes they change, sometimes they don't. But

1822
01:26:41,040 --> 01:26:44,080
Speaker 1: you can't be with someone for their potential because what

1823
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:45,960
Speaker 1: if they never change. You need to accept them for

1824
01:26:46,000 --> 01:26:48,240
Speaker 1: who they are now, and they probably will change, but

1825
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:52,240
Speaker 1: that's not a guarantee. I think communication. It's a cliche,

1826
01:26:52,280 --> 01:26:54,960
Speaker 1: but it's true. There's kind of this joke that like

1827
01:26:55,120 --> 01:26:57,720
Speaker 1: the answer to every advice column is always like, have

1828
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:01,680
Speaker 1: a conversation? What should I do with my neighbor who

1829
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:03,920
Speaker 1: plays music? It's like, have a conversation? What should I

1830
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,960
Speaker 1: with my mother in law she shows up without being invited?

1831
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 1: Have a conversation? Is like yes, Like conversations are what

1832
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 1: keep relationships alive. Yeah, And going back to chalant dating,

1833
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:18,760
Speaker 1: I saw this stat that was like ninety percent of

1834
01:27:18,840 --> 01:27:21,880
Speaker 1: women like what they really want is not to go

1835
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,960
Speaker 1: to an expensive restaurant and not how much money the

1836
01:27:25,000 --> 01:27:27,640
Speaker 1: guys spent on the date, but really how invested in

1837
01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:30,200
Speaker 1: the conversation is he? And so I think communication is

1838
01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,839
Speaker 1: a huge one. And then I think the growth mindset

1839
01:27:32,880 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: that really encompasses a lot. It's like life changes, you'll change.

1840
01:27:37,360 --> 01:27:39,519
Speaker 1: Do we feel like we're a team and we're on

1841
01:27:39,560 --> 01:27:42,360
Speaker 1: the same side and we're working together towards the life

1842
01:27:42,400 --> 01:27:45,559
Speaker 1: we want, or we adversaries that are in opposite sides

1843
01:27:45,600 --> 01:27:48,559
Speaker 1: of the pickleball court and when you win, when you

1844
01:27:48,600 --> 01:27:50,639
Speaker 1: win and you go away with your friends, I lose

1845
01:27:50,680 --> 01:27:52,519
Speaker 1: because I have to stay home with our kid and

1846
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 1: instead it's like we over me.

1847
01:27:55,479 --> 01:27:57,519
Speaker 2: How do you know if you're asking for too much?

1848
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:01,920
Speaker 1: There's a big difference between settling where you feel like

1849
01:28:02,000 --> 01:28:04,280
Speaker 1: you have these deal breakers that are really important to

1850
01:28:04,320 --> 01:28:09,040
Speaker 1: you and you're not getting them met, and satisficing, which

1851
01:28:09,080 --> 01:28:11,320
Speaker 1: is understanding that you should double down on the things

1852
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:13,720
Speaker 1: that matter and compromise on the rest. So let me

1853
01:28:13,720 --> 01:28:15,920
Speaker 1: get a little bit more specific. And I actually wanted

1854
01:28:15,960 --> 01:28:18,240
Speaker 1: to answer this before when you were talking about, you know,

1855
01:28:18,280 --> 01:28:22,240
Speaker 1: the things that matter and don't matter. So as people

1856
01:28:22,320 --> 01:28:24,799
Speaker 1: get older, especially and you know, I have this Netflix

1857
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:27,479
Speaker 1: show The Later Daters, and it's Daters over fifty five

1858
01:28:27,560 --> 01:28:29,960
Speaker 1: and so like, I have just seen this so much.

1859
01:28:30,080 --> 01:28:32,160
Speaker 1: The older you get, the more you add to your

1860
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,679
Speaker 1: list because you're like, I've waited this long, she better

1861
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:37,639
Speaker 1: be perfect. And so what happens is we confuse pet

1862
01:28:37,680 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 1: peeves for deal breakers. So what pet peeve would be

1863
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:44,280
Speaker 1: something like, I'll date anyone except a mouth breather. It's like,

1864
01:28:44,400 --> 01:28:48,200
Speaker 1: come on, like mouth breathing that's not correlated with relationships

1865
01:28:48,240 --> 01:28:51,920
Speaker 1: satisfaction or not satisfaction. It's like something that maybe annoys you,

1866
01:28:51,960 --> 01:28:53,200
Speaker 1: but it's not that big of a deal. Or like

1867
01:28:53,520 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 1: socks with sandals.

1868
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,040
Speaker 2: So it's like, well, even being six foot total, oh

1869
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:57,639
Speaker 2: my gosh.

1870
01:28:57,720 --> 01:28:57,920
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1871
01:28:57,960 --> 01:28:59,760
Speaker 1: I could go on a whole tangent about height, which

1872
01:28:59,800 --> 01:29:02,559
Speaker 1: is essentially like many women filter out men who are

1873
01:29:02,600 --> 01:29:05,000
Speaker 1: six feet you know, they want a man who's six

1874
01:29:05,040 --> 01:29:08,120
Speaker 1: feet are taller, but eighty six percent of adult men

1875
01:29:08,160 --> 01:29:11,439
Speaker 1: in the US are under six feet. Wow, so you're

1876
01:29:11,520 --> 01:29:15,200
Speaker 1: excluding eighty six percent of possible matches over something that

1877
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,200
Speaker 1: does not matter for long term relationship satisfaction. And so

1878
01:29:19,080 --> 01:29:21,000
Speaker 1: you know, going back to pet peece and deal breakers,

1879
01:29:21,040 --> 01:29:23,000
Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is make a list

1880
01:29:23,040 --> 01:29:25,559
Speaker 1: of what you think your pet peeves are what you

1881
01:29:25,720 --> 01:29:28,040
Speaker 1: think your deal breakers are, what your must haves are,

1882
01:29:28,320 --> 01:29:31,200
Speaker 1: and then truly think if I didn't have this thing,

1883
01:29:31,680 --> 01:29:34,000
Speaker 1: would it matter long term? So oh, I need a

1884
01:29:34,000 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: guy with a good sense of style. It's like, do

1885
01:29:36,200 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: you can you take him shopping? Like who cares? Versus

1886
01:29:40,200 --> 01:29:43,439
Speaker 1: something like I have asthma and I need a non smoker.

1887
01:29:43,560 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: Going back to religion, you know, for you, maybe it

1888
01:29:46,000 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 1: wasn't just the religion piece, but for some people, if

1889
01:29:48,160 --> 01:29:50,000
Speaker 1: they're religious or they want to raise their kids in

1890
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,120
Speaker 1: that faith, it is a deal breaker. So kind of

1891
01:29:52,160 --> 01:29:54,360
Speaker 1: go through each one and try to move things to

1892
01:29:54,400 --> 01:29:58,519
Speaker 1: the pet peeves category, and then when you're dating, go

1893
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:01,280
Speaker 1: really hard on those deal breakers and be true to yourself,

1894
01:30:01,520 --> 01:30:04,000
Speaker 1: but be more flexible on the pet peeves because they

1895
01:30:04,040 --> 01:30:04,639
Speaker 1: don't matter.

1896
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, those icks. Have you ever seen the guy on

1897
01:30:08,280 --> 01:30:11,160
Speaker 2: TikTok called Guy with the List? No, okay, so check

1898
01:30:11,200 --> 01:30:14,040
Speaker 2: it out. I have no affiliation, but I'm such a fan.

1899
01:30:14,320 --> 01:30:17,360
Speaker 2: So what he does is he finds videos of women

1900
01:30:17,400 --> 01:30:19,920
Speaker 2: on the internet that say they have an ick or

1901
01:30:20,040 --> 01:30:22,479
Speaker 2: they have something they don't like about men, and then

1902
01:30:22,479 --> 01:30:25,000
Speaker 2: he adds it to his list to not do that thing.

1903
01:30:25,640 --> 01:30:28,439
Speaker 2: So it's so fat it's genius.

1904
01:30:27,960 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 1: And so I feel like our friend Jared Fried is

1905
01:30:30,080 --> 01:30:31,080
Speaker 1: kind of like the king.

1906
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:32,920
Speaker 2: Of the ick? Is it in what sense? Going? I

1907
01:30:32,960 --> 01:30:33,400
Speaker 2: love Jared?

1908
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:33,599
Speaker 4: Oh?

1909
01:30:33,640 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 1: He has so many viral videos where he's like, I

1910
01:30:36,040 --> 01:30:39,240
Speaker 1: ask audience members why they rejected a guy, and they

1911
01:30:39,240 --> 01:30:41,160
Speaker 1: were like, I really liked him. I was going to

1912
01:30:41,200 --> 01:30:43,280
Speaker 1: go home with him, but then he went to pay

1913
01:30:43,320 --> 01:30:46,360
Speaker 1: the bill and I heard this is and it's the

1914
01:30:46,400 --> 01:30:48,639
Speaker 1: sound of somebody opening a Velker wallet.

1915
01:30:48,960 --> 01:30:51,120
Speaker 2: That's so great. Yeah, that's exactly it. These are some

1916
01:30:51,160 --> 01:30:52,960
Speaker 2: of these even worse. I haven't I haven't checked.

1917
01:30:53,320 --> 01:30:55,280
Speaker 3: I mean to be an alarmist, but it's important to

1918
01:30:55,320 --> 01:30:57,559
Speaker 3: stay vigilant. A few weeks ago, I met this guy

1919
01:30:57,600 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 3: out at a bar. He seemed normal, his friends seemed

1920
01:31:00,320 --> 01:31:02,720
Speaker 3: so I went home with him. The next day, I

1921
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:04,960
Speaker 3: was leaving and he said, oh, I'll walk you to

1922
01:31:05,040 --> 01:31:08,559
Speaker 3: the train station. I'm leaving as well, and out of nowhere,

1923
01:31:08,600 --> 01:31:13,000
Speaker 3: he just nonchalantly grabs his roller blades and a speaker.

1924
01:31:16,280 --> 01:31:20,479
Speaker 2: So then what he does is he takes it such

1925
01:31:20,520 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 2: a good bed. And so his list has everything from

1926
01:31:23,000 --> 01:31:27,240
Speaker 2: don't wear goggles, yeah, don't leave an event early, have

1927
01:31:27,360 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: a different font, having a birthdays in it, Like it's just.

1928
01:31:30,880 --> 01:31:32,640
Speaker 1: That's so funny.

1929
01:31:32,960 --> 01:31:34,840
Speaker 4: I don't like the new it. It's just so random.

1930
01:31:34,840 --> 01:31:36,439
Speaker 4: And I know people hate when people do its, and

1931
01:31:36,479 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 4: it's like, how do we get they that that's so ridiculous.

1932
01:31:39,240 --> 01:31:41,120
Speaker 4: I don't know if anyone ever said this one before,

1933
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:46,439
Speaker 4: but like when a lad has a birthday, like what

1934
01:31:46,600 --> 01:31:48,120
Speaker 4: do you just be like, oh, happy.

1935
01:31:47,840 --> 01:31:50,280
Speaker 1: Birthday, Oh my god. I could literally talk about this

1936
01:31:50,360 --> 01:31:53,240
Speaker 1: with you for hours because it's like, of course there's

1937
01:31:53,240 --> 01:31:56,280
Speaker 1: like a sense of humor. I mean, first hilarious talk

1938
01:31:56,560 --> 01:31:59,559
Speaker 1: is so funny. So many people are so hilarious, like

1939
01:31:59,600 --> 01:32:01,920
Speaker 1: that girl nail the delivery of like you know, I

1940
01:32:02,040 --> 01:32:05,639
Speaker 1: after rollerblader, a roller skater and like a performative one.

1941
01:32:06,000 --> 01:32:08,200
Speaker 1: But like it kind of goes back to the earlier

1942
01:32:08,240 --> 01:32:11,839
Speaker 1: part of our conversation around men and like the script

1943
01:32:11,840 --> 01:32:14,280
Speaker 1: that they follow, because it's like a lot of women

1944
01:32:14,320 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: are saying I make money, so I don't care as

1945
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:17,880
Speaker 1: much if you make money. I want you to be

1946
01:32:17,920 --> 01:32:20,800
Speaker 1: more emotionally available. I want you to be vulnerable. But

1947
01:32:20,840 --> 01:32:24,200
Speaker 1: then they also sort of get punished when they are,

1948
01:32:24,960 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 1: and I think that that's just because we haven't really

1949
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:30,920
Speaker 1: figured out what masculinity looks like in this age, and

1950
01:32:30,960 --> 01:32:34,840
Speaker 1: it's like, why is having a birthday embarrassing? Like why

1951
01:32:34,840 --> 01:32:37,080
Speaker 1: can't like a thirty two year old guy like throw

1952
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,439
Speaker 1: a birthday party? Why would that be cringe? And So,

1953
01:32:39,920 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I have a lot of thoughts on the ICK,

1954
01:32:41,880 --> 01:32:43,760
Speaker 1: but maybe just the one that I'll say is that

1955
01:32:44,160 --> 01:32:47,280
Speaker 1: are you using the ick to push people away because

1956
01:32:47,320 --> 01:32:49,120
Speaker 1: you're afraid of being in a relationship and it just

1957
01:32:49,120 --> 01:32:51,360
Speaker 1: gives you a reason to reject someone and not get

1958
01:32:51,400 --> 01:32:51,920
Speaker 1: close to them.

1959
01:32:52,240 --> 01:32:54,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that statistic on height just blew my mind.

1960
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,320
Speaker 2: I did not realize that that you're cutting out eighty

1961
01:32:57,360 --> 01:32:59,160
Speaker 2: six percent of adult men. Oh my god, in the

1962
01:32:59,240 --> 01:33:00,559
Speaker 2: United States. It's insane.

1963
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:02,680
Speaker 1: The hi thing drives me crazy because, first of all,

1964
01:33:02,720 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: I am married to a short king and I'm very

1965
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:08,040
Speaker 1: happy about it. But also it's like, you know, if

1966
01:33:08,080 --> 01:33:10,040
Speaker 1: you were at a bar and you're sitting at a

1967
01:33:10,040 --> 01:33:12,360
Speaker 1: stool next to someone and you lock eyes and you

1968
01:33:12,400 --> 01:33:15,080
Speaker 1: have an amazing conversation and you talk about your hopes

1969
01:33:15,120 --> 01:33:17,880
Speaker 1: and dreams and then the guy stands up and he's

1970
01:33:17,960 --> 01:33:19,960
Speaker 1: five eight or five to nine. Are you not going

1971
01:33:20,000 --> 01:33:22,240
Speaker 1: to give him your number? No, you are, because you

1972
01:33:22,320 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 1: had a vibe, you had a connection. But if you

1973
01:33:25,200 --> 01:33:28,800
Speaker 1: think about Hinge as kind of your club and your

1974
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:32,200
Speaker 1: filters as the bouncers deciding who gets into your club

1975
01:33:32,280 --> 01:33:38,040
Speaker 1: or not. When you set really stringent filters on height, age, distance,

1976
01:33:38,360 --> 01:33:41,439
Speaker 1: you're really blocking so many people from coming into your club.

1977
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:42,840
Speaker 1: And then you're going up to people like me and

1978
01:33:42,880 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 1: you and saying, where's my husband, where's my wife? I

1979
01:33:45,320 --> 01:33:47,200
Speaker 1: can't find them. It's like, yeah, cause they're all waiting

1980
01:33:47,240 --> 01:33:48,760
Speaker 1: in line. And the bouncer rejected that.

1981
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:52,240
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so well said, we have two segments to

1982
01:33:52,360 --> 01:33:54,920
Speaker 2: end today's episode with you. We've invented a game for

1983
01:33:54,960 --> 01:33:57,639
Speaker 2: you called dis ord that and this is for you,

1984
01:33:57,760 --> 01:34:01,639
Speaker 2: so we'll play that one first. This or that someone

1985
01:34:01,680 --> 01:34:04,840
Speaker 2: who loves you more or someone you love more.

1986
01:34:05,640 --> 01:34:07,920
Speaker 1: I think I want to love them a lot, but

1987
01:34:07,920 --> 01:34:09,519
Speaker 1: it's okay if they love me a little bit.

1988
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:13,320
Speaker 2: More than I love them, Okay. Marry your best friend

1989
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 2: or someone you feel wild passionate for.

1990
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: Ideal, like for a lot of eas I'm like ideally both,

1991
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:21,800
Speaker 1: but it's like I think the best friendship is going

1992
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:23,840
Speaker 1: to last longer, but like you need to want to

1993
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:25,719
Speaker 1: have sex with them, So I would say best friend,

1994
01:34:25,760 --> 01:34:28,240
Speaker 1: but want to have sex, and like most people don't

1995
01:34:28,240 --> 01:34:30,960
Speaker 1: marry the person they had the best sex within their life,

1996
01:34:31,000 --> 01:34:34,479
Speaker 1: Like the most passionate relationship is sometimes because there's a

1997
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:37,280
Speaker 1: little bit of like will she or won't she? And

1998
01:34:37,360 --> 01:34:40,120
Speaker 1: I would say if you're looking for like long term partnership,

1999
01:34:40,160 --> 01:34:42,280
Speaker 1: like best friend is like a safer bet.

2000
01:34:42,200 --> 01:34:44,920
Speaker 2: Yep, good answers, all right, stay in a good enough

2001
01:34:44,960 --> 01:34:48,439
Speaker 2: relationship or risk being single for a long time waiting

2002
01:34:48,439 --> 01:34:48,880
Speaker 2: for great.

2003
01:34:49,479 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 1: Sorry to be so like, but I think it matters

2004
01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,040
Speaker 1: who you are. If you're a person who often leaves

2005
01:34:54,120 --> 01:34:57,040
Speaker 1: relationships what I call a ditcher because you're a maximiz

2006
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:59,120
Speaker 1: when you're looking for something better than I would say, like,

2007
01:34:59,200 --> 01:35:02,240
Speaker 1: invest in that reallyationship and make it great. But if

2008
01:35:02,240 --> 01:35:05,120
Speaker 1: you're a person that really settles and like always kind

2009
01:35:05,160 --> 01:35:07,960
Speaker 1: of accepts the crumbs, then see what it's like to

2010
01:35:08,000 --> 01:35:10,160
Speaker 1: be single and really go after the whole cookie.

2011
01:35:10,880 --> 01:35:13,080
Speaker 2: Your answer is great, So yeah, I'm happy with what

2012
01:35:13,080 --> 01:35:17,960
Speaker 2: you're doing. Shared life goals, but mismatched love languages or

2013
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:21,320
Speaker 2: perfect love languages match, but different visions for the future.

2014
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:24,400
Speaker 1: I think love languages are kind of ridiculous and overrated,

2015
01:35:24,439 --> 01:35:27,439
Speaker 1: Like they help people, and I think they're useful as

2016
01:35:27,479 --> 01:35:31,479
Speaker 1: something to point to, but like they're not scientifically backed. Like,

2017
01:35:31,560 --> 01:35:33,720
Speaker 1: let's just talk about what love languages are, because like

2018
01:35:33,800 --> 01:35:35,960
Speaker 1: they've kind of become so pervasive in our culture with

2019
01:35:35,960 --> 01:35:38,520
Speaker 1: people wearing shirts that say like taco is my love language.

2020
01:35:38,680 --> 01:35:41,920
Speaker 1: So the love language is your preferred way of receiving love,

2021
01:35:42,280 --> 01:35:44,160
Speaker 1: and so it kind of helps you say to your husband,

2022
01:35:44,640 --> 01:35:47,679
Speaker 1: I don't care about gifts. I care about quality time.

2023
01:35:48,400 --> 01:35:51,720
Speaker 1: Like for me, for Christmas, my husband said, like, make

2024
01:35:51,760 --> 01:35:53,800
Speaker 1: a list of what you want, and I asked him

2025
01:35:53,800 --> 01:35:57,280
Speaker 1: for five conversations that were each two hours. And I

2026
01:35:57,320 --> 01:35:59,439
Speaker 1: know it's like sounds so crazy, but like it that's

2027
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:01,280
Speaker 1: what I wanted. I was like, I want a conversation

2028
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:03,800
Speaker 1: about our housing for the future. I want a conversation

2029
01:36:03,880 --> 01:36:08,000
Speaker 1: around my health. I want a conversation around parenting. And

2030
01:36:08,080 --> 01:36:09,880
Speaker 1: like maybe it sounds silly and people would be like,

2031
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:11,200
Speaker 1: why did you have to ask for that. It's like

2032
01:36:11,439 --> 01:36:13,280
Speaker 1: cause we're parents of a young kid and we work

2033
01:36:13,320 --> 01:36:15,120
Speaker 1: a lot at my husband commute. It's like we don't

2034
01:36:15,160 --> 01:36:17,560
Speaker 1: have two hour quality time conversations all the time, Like

2035
01:36:17,600 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 1: we don't even have them that often, and so what

2036
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:22,960
Speaker 1: I wanted was to have that quality time.

2037
01:36:23,280 --> 01:36:24,360
Speaker 2: I didn't want.

2038
01:36:24,680 --> 01:36:28,439
Speaker 1: Gifts, and so love languages are a helpful way to

2039
01:36:28,560 --> 01:36:30,320
Speaker 1: kind of show what matters to you. But like, you

2040
01:36:30,360 --> 01:36:34,080
Speaker 1: don't have to have aligned love languages like one hundred percent,

2041
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 1: like shared vision for the future matters much more than

2042
01:36:37,400 --> 01:36:39,240
Speaker 1: this thing that is kind of a shortcut to say,

2043
01:36:39,240 --> 01:36:40,719
Speaker 1: like this is what makes me feel valued.

2044
01:36:40,880 --> 01:36:42,400
Speaker 2: I just want to underline what you just said as

2045
01:36:42,439 --> 01:36:45,719
Speaker 2: well that I actually think you do have to ask

2046
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:49,800
Speaker 2: and set aside time for very important conversations, especially when

2047
01:36:49,800 --> 01:36:51,920
Speaker 2: you've been together for a long time, because your day

2048
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:55,000
Speaker 2: to day becomes your conversation and it give me great connection,

2049
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:57,760
Speaker 2: and you can be having fun every day, but you

2050
01:36:58,040 --> 01:37:00,280
Speaker 2: almost don't ever sit down and do that fun call

2051
01:37:00,280 --> 01:37:02,280
Speaker 2: a conversation that you did when you started dating, or

2052
01:37:02,320 --> 01:37:05,920
Speaker 2: you don't do that three hours dinner when you're with someone,

2053
01:37:05,960 --> 01:37:08,680
Speaker 2: And so I think I fully agree with you on

2054
01:37:08,840 --> 01:37:12,400
Speaker 2: having to outline and ask for specific conversations, especially if

2055
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:14,840
Speaker 2: it's really important to you and it's not something that

2056
01:37:14,880 --> 01:37:17,559
Speaker 2: you're just willing to also just throw into someone When

2057
01:37:17,560 --> 01:37:19,479
Speaker 2: you both just got back from work, put your baby

2058
01:37:19,479 --> 01:37:22,160
Speaker 2: to bed, and you're both exhausted, it's not possible to

2059
01:37:22,200 --> 01:37:24,080
Speaker 2: go on that Thursday night and say, hey, can we

2060
01:37:24,120 --> 01:37:26,479
Speaker 2: just talk about the finances tonight? Like that's going to

2061
01:37:26,520 --> 01:37:28,200
Speaker 2: maybe throw the other person off as well.

2062
01:37:28,520 --> 01:37:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would have to say, like that was a

2063
01:37:30,400 --> 01:37:32,680
Speaker 1: great gift, And some of my friends have like copied it,

2064
01:37:32,720 --> 01:37:34,920
Speaker 1: They've asked their partners for that for their birthday. And

2065
01:37:34,960 --> 01:37:37,000
Speaker 1: I'm like, I think this could be a thing because

2066
01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:40,160
Speaker 1: it's like it's awkward to say, can we spend ninety

2067
01:37:40,240 --> 01:37:42,320
Speaker 1: minutes talking about my health? And can I like talk

2068
01:37:42,360 --> 01:37:43,880
Speaker 1: to you about my orr ring and this and that?

2069
01:37:44,160 --> 01:37:47,040
Speaker 1: But like I want that time and that's what I

2070
01:37:47,080 --> 01:37:49,640
Speaker 1: as a busy parent, as a mom, like that's what

2071
01:37:49,720 --> 01:37:51,720
Speaker 1: I was looking for. And I feel like that was

2072
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:54,160
Speaker 1: so much more enriching to me than like, you know,

2073
01:37:54,280 --> 01:37:55,519
Speaker 1: some red light mask.

2074
01:37:55,840 --> 01:37:59,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, last one of these. Date someone who feels

2075
01:37:59,439 --> 01:38:03,720
Speaker 2: safe but doesn't challenge you, or date someone who challenges

2076
01:38:03,760 --> 01:38:05,960
Speaker 2: you but sometimes triggers you. Hmmm.

2077
01:38:06,680 --> 01:38:09,360
Speaker 1: I think you have to feel safe, like that is

2078
01:38:09,400 --> 01:38:12,759
Speaker 1: a must have because someone should really feel like home,

2079
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:15,040
Speaker 1: they should feel like that foundation, so you need it.

2080
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:17,879
Speaker 1: I think trigger kind of going back to like boundaries

2081
01:38:17,880 --> 01:38:19,320
Speaker 1: and self care, it just kind of become like a

2082
01:38:19,360 --> 01:38:21,640
Speaker 1: little bit overblown in our culture. So I would say, like,

2083
01:38:21,960 --> 01:38:24,400
Speaker 1: investigate that more. What does trigger you mean? Does it

2084
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:26,760
Speaker 1: mean that like sometimes they challenge you, or does it

2085
01:38:26,800 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: mean like that they don't respect you, or that they

2086
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:31,479
Speaker 1: remind you of like an abusive relationship you're in. So

2087
01:38:31,479 --> 01:38:34,640
Speaker 1: I would say safety and foundation is like a must have,

2088
01:38:35,240 --> 01:38:38,640
Speaker 1: but then investigate is this healthy discomfort or is this

2089
01:38:38,720 --> 01:38:39,720
Speaker 1: unhealthy discomfort?

2090
01:38:40,640 --> 01:38:44,280
Speaker 2: Logan, You've been amazing to talk to. I've learned so much.

2091
01:38:44,320 --> 01:38:45,800
Speaker 2: I think our audience is going to get so much

2092
01:38:45,880 --> 01:38:48,080
Speaker 2: value from this. I'm so excited for everyone to go

2093
01:38:48,080 --> 01:38:51,040
Speaker 2: to logan uri dot com then actually take the quiz

2094
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:52,840
Speaker 2: so that they can figure out where they land. I

2095
01:38:52,880 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 2: think doing the quiz myself and even breaking it down

2096
01:38:55,880 --> 01:38:58,519
Speaker 2: with you today, and I kept in the interview everyone

2097
01:38:58,520 --> 01:39:01,679
Speaker 2: will hear me keep getting well. That sounds like exercise rates.

2098
01:39:01,920 --> 01:39:04,679
Speaker 2: It's so usable in everyday life, and I think it's

2099
01:39:04,680 --> 01:39:07,639
Speaker 2: going to help people really recognize what's blocking them at

2100
01:39:07,680 --> 01:39:10,760
Speaker 2: the root, rather than just hey, you're just distracted or

2101
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,760
Speaker 2: whatever it may be. We end every episode of On

2102
01:39:13,800 --> 01:39:16,280
Speaker 2: Purpose with a final five. These questions have to be

2103
01:39:16,320 --> 01:39:19,719
Speaker 2: answered in one word or one sentence maximum one sentence

2104
01:39:19,800 --> 01:39:22,920
Speaker 2: most likely, so logan Uri. These are your final five.

2105
01:39:23,240 --> 01:39:25,719
Speaker 2: The first question is what is the best love advice

2106
01:39:25,840 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 2: You've ever heard or received?

2107
01:39:27,240 --> 01:39:29,920
Speaker 1: The best love advice I've ever heard or received is

2108
01:39:30,040 --> 01:39:30,920
Speaker 1: love is a verb.

2109
01:39:31,439 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 2: It's a good answer. I agreed. What is the worst

2110
01:39:35,320 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 2: love advice you've ever heard or received?

2111
01:39:37,479 --> 01:39:40,240
Speaker 1: The worst love advice that I've heard, this is really

2112
01:39:40,240 --> 01:39:43,559
Speaker 1: big on Reddit, is when people have very strict rules

2113
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:47,800
Speaker 1: where it's like, if he asks this question, never see

2114
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,639
Speaker 1: him again. If he doesn't pay, never see him again.

2115
01:39:50,680 --> 01:39:52,880
Speaker 1: So I think the worst love advice is when you

2116
01:39:52,920 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 1: have really strict rules that are not based in like

2117
01:39:55,640 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 1: the research or science of what actually matters in dating.

2118
01:39:58,360 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 2: It's a great answer. Question number three, is love blind? No?

2119
01:40:04,439 --> 01:40:05,599
Speaker 2: Do you want to? You can explain.

2120
01:40:06,160 --> 01:40:08,680
Speaker 1: I mean, I think nine seasons of the show has

2121
01:40:08,680 --> 01:40:10,320
Speaker 1: shown us that love is not blind.

2122
01:40:11,080 --> 01:40:15,760
Speaker 2: It's a great answer for sure. Question number four, what's

2123
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:19,240
Speaker 2: something you used to believe was true about love but

2124
01:40:19,400 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 2: now you actually realize it isn't.

2125
01:40:21,439 --> 01:40:22,880
Speaker 1: I think I'll go back to what we talked about

2126
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:26,320
Speaker 1: with timing, which is I used to believe that love

2127
01:40:26,360 --> 01:40:28,960
Speaker 1: to sort of overcome any timing, and now I believe

2128
01:40:29,000 --> 01:40:33,280
Speaker 1: that timing is a big element of whether or not

2129
01:40:33,320 --> 01:40:34,040
Speaker 1: you're the right fit.

2130
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's such a It's weird, isn't it, Because

2131
01:40:37,040 --> 01:40:39,040
Speaker 2: time is such a funny one because it's almost like

2132
01:40:39,040 --> 01:40:41,599
Speaker 2: we're waiting for the perfect time, which I don't think

2133
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:43,560
Speaker 2: is what you're saying, But you're saying the timing of

2134
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:46,479
Speaker 2: where your life is right now is going to let

2135
01:40:46,479 --> 01:40:48,200
Speaker 2: you know whether you'll find That's a.

2136
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:49,800
Speaker 1: Really good point. So I think a lot of people

2137
01:40:49,840 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 1: are hesitators where they're waiting to be the perfect person,

2138
01:40:54,320 --> 01:40:56,280
Speaker 1: when the truth is you'll never be one hundred percent ready.

2139
01:40:56,280 --> 01:40:58,960
Speaker 1: So I'm not talking about that like date before you're ready.

2140
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:03,000
Speaker 1: What I I'm talking about is if you meet someone amazing,

2141
01:41:03,439 --> 01:41:06,760
Speaker 1: but your lifestyles don't line up right now, or they

2142
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:09,680
Speaker 1: are in the military and you want to have a

2143
01:41:09,760 --> 01:41:12,320
Speaker 1: kid right away, or like all these different situations, it's

2144
01:41:12,320 --> 01:41:15,400
Speaker 1: like right person, wrong time is probably wrong person.

2145
01:41:15,840 --> 01:41:17,920
Speaker 2: Fifth and final question We asked this every guest who's

2146
01:41:17,920 --> 01:41:20,120
Speaker 2: ever been on the show. If you could create one

2147
01:41:20,200 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 2: law that everyone in the world had to follow, what

2148
01:41:22,600 --> 01:41:23,120
Speaker 2: would it be?

2149
01:41:23,360 --> 01:41:27,120
Speaker 1: Tell the truth? I think just so often we don't

2150
01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:30,440
Speaker 1: tell people how we're feeling. We don't share hard feedback,

2151
01:41:30,840 --> 01:41:33,080
Speaker 1: we're not brave and look like there is a time

2152
01:41:33,080 --> 01:41:35,640
Speaker 1: and a place for white lives, such as you know,

2153
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:37,599
Speaker 1: when you ask your husband how you look five minutes

2154
01:41:37,600 --> 01:41:39,519
Speaker 1: before you're going to his work office party, which my

2155
01:41:39,600 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 1: husband hasn't gotten the memo on that. But I think

2156
01:41:42,360 --> 01:41:45,799
Speaker 1: if we were just all more honest about what we're feeling,

2157
01:41:45,920 --> 01:41:48,760
Speaker 1: what we're worrying about, what's going through our mind, we

2158
01:41:48,800 --> 01:41:50,640
Speaker 1: would just have much richer relationships.

2159
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:53,519
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in relationship with especially, I mean you're

2160
01:41:53,520 --> 01:41:56,840
Speaker 2: talking about first dates and dinners. And I remember the

2161
01:41:56,840 --> 01:42:00,000
Speaker 2: first time I took Radiau. I thought she liked fancy places.

2162
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:02,320
Speaker 2: I took her some. I couldn't even afford a fancy place,

2163
01:42:02,360 --> 01:42:04,160
Speaker 2: but I'd saved up and took her out to this

2164
01:42:04,200 --> 01:42:08,559
Speaker 2: fancy place. And she literally from the moment we walked in,

2165
01:42:08,560 --> 01:42:10,519
Speaker 2: I could tell she wasn't enjoying the experience. And I

2166
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:12,519
Speaker 2: was kind of like, this's a nice place, you know whatever,

2167
01:42:12,520 --> 01:42:13,880
Speaker 2: And she just said to me, she goes, you know,

2168
01:42:13,960 --> 01:42:16,639
Speaker 2: my ideal day is not being at a fancy restaurant.

2169
01:42:16,720 --> 01:42:21,160
Speaker 2: It's being at Tesco's, which is our version of Walmart

2170
01:42:21,240 --> 01:42:23,439
Speaker 2: or Target or whatever. And she was like buying some

2171
01:42:23,479 --> 01:42:25,719
Speaker 2: bread and cheese, and making some sandwiches like that would

2172
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:27,880
Speaker 2: be my ideal day. And I was like, got it,

2173
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:29,679
Speaker 2: Like I understood it, and like I think the next

2174
01:42:29,760 --> 01:42:31,559
Speaker 2: day we like literally went down and walked down the

2175
01:42:31,560 --> 01:42:33,760
Speaker 2: grocery al and bought bread and cheese and went And

2176
01:42:33,840 --> 01:42:36,120
Speaker 2: it was just to me, it was so useful to

2177
01:42:36,160 --> 01:42:38,000
Speaker 2: have that early on because I knew I liked RUDDI

2178
01:42:38,240 --> 01:42:40,360
Speaker 2: I didn't care whether we were at a fancy restaurant

2179
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 2: or not. And I think if she hadn't told me that,

2180
01:42:42,520 --> 01:42:43,960
Speaker 2: because she was like, oh my god, maybe I'm going

2181
01:42:44,000 --> 01:42:45,479
Speaker 2: to turn him off, maybe I'm going to scare him.

2182
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:48,080
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe I'm you know it's And I'm like, well,

2183
01:42:48,280 --> 01:42:50,000
Speaker 2: if I did, then I was just the wrong guy.

2184
01:42:50,240 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 2: Like it was to me, it felt like a fair

2185
01:42:52,080 --> 01:42:55,720
Speaker 2: thing to say you're allowed to like different things or

2186
01:42:55,720 --> 01:42:57,599
Speaker 2: tell me what you like. We're getting to know each other.

2187
01:42:57,840 --> 01:42:59,959
Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that honesty piece is so important.

2188
01:43:00,080 --> 01:43:01,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think about some of the richest

2189
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:04,000
Speaker 1: relationships in my life. So there's a woman Kimberly I've

2190
01:43:04,040 --> 01:43:06,080
Speaker 1: been working with for the last six years, and I

2191
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:09,040
Speaker 1: know that if I give her feedback, she will always say, oh,

2192
01:43:09,080 --> 01:43:10,760
Speaker 1: thank you so much. I'm going to work on that.

2193
01:43:10,840 --> 01:43:13,200
Speaker 1: And it's a cliche, but it's true. Like feedback is

2194
01:43:13,200 --> 01:43:16,200
Speaker 1: a gift because you're making someone aware of a blind

2195
01:43:16,200 --> 01:43:18,720
Speaker 1: spot and then they have the opportunity to improve. And

2196
01:43:18,760 --> 01:43:21,439
Speaker 1: like I don't walk on eggshells with her because I

2197
01:43:21,520 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 1: know that we can talk through any situation. Or my

2198
01:43:24,040 --> 01:43:26,679
Speaker 1: friend Ellen is obsessed with feedback and she's so good

2199
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:30,920
Speaker 1: at receiving it. And I remember one time for guess

2200
01:43:30,920 --> 01:43:32,880
Speaker 1: it was for Father's Day, Like the gift that I

2201
01:43:32,880 --> 01:43:34,800
Speaker 1: gave my husband because he loves the New York Times

2202
01:43:34,800 --> 01:43:38,080
Speaker 1: crossword is that like Ellen and her husband Niehark, came

2203
01:43:38,080 --> 01:43:41,839
Speaker 1: over and we all did the New York Times Sunday

2204
01:43:41,960 --> 01:43:45,599
Speaker 1: or I guess a Saturday crossword like like on our

2205
01:43:45,640 --> 01:43:48,320
Speaker 1: projector and like every time I would throw out a word,

2206
01:43:48,880 --> 01:43:51,000
Speaker 1: Ellen would say, I mean, now I'm like throwing her

2207
01:43:51,080 --> 01:43:53,000
Speaker 1: under the bus. But she was sort of like that's

2208
01:43:53,040 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 1: not even the right number of letters and this and that,

2209
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:56,600
Speaker 1: and I told her later, I was like, I'm not

2210
01:43:56,640 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 1: that good at crosswords, but I was just kind of

2211
01:43:58,280 --> 01:44:00,200
Speaker 1: having fun and you kind of like embarrass me where

2212
01:44:00,200 --> 01:44:02,919
Speaker 1: I didn't want to participate, and she was like, wow,

2213
01:44:03,240 --> 01:44:05,280
Speaker 1: thank you, so much for telling me that, like I know,

2214
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:07,599
Speaker 1: I have a competitive streak, and like the way she

2215
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:10,640
Speaker 1: received it, where she was like truly so grateful for it.

2216
01:44:10,680 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 1: I just felt much closer to her. And I think

2217
01:44:13,320 --> 01:44:16,240
Speaker 1: that when you're honest with someone and they receive that

2218
01:44:16,360 --> 01:44:20,479
Speaker 1: as a gift and not with defensiveness, it just makes

2219
01:44:20,520 --> 01:44:22,880
Speaker 1: you feel like you can go deeper and deeper with that.

2220
01:44:22,920 --> 01:44:24,360
Speaker 1: And I think a lot of people are afraid of

2221
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 1: the truth and afraid of rejection when it's really like,

2222
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:30,519
Speaker 1: being honest with someone is a way to get more

2223
01:44:30,520 --> 01:44:32,880
Speaker 1: intimate logan Uri. The book is called How to Not

2224
01:44:32,960 --> 01:44:36,240
Speaker 1: Die Alone logannuri dot com. For the quiz, please please

2225
01:44:36,560 --> 01:44:38,960
Speaker 1: go and do the quiz. You'll get your results. You'll

2226
01:44:38,960 --> 01:44:40,840
Speaker 1: be able to learn so much more about what's been

2227
01:44:40,880 --> 01:44:43,120
Speaker 1: blocking you in dating. You'll also be able to strike

2228
01:44:43,160 --> 01:44:45,400
Speaker 1: up a conversation with friends who are going through similar things.

2229
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:47,280
Speaker 1: So I really hope you check it out. Logan Is

2230
01:44:47,280 --> 01:44:49,679
Speaker 1: there anything else you'd like to share, any inside advice

2231
01:44:49,760 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 1: or anyway you'd like people to find you more? Check

2232
01:44:51,840 --> 01:44:54,519
Speaker 1: out the Netflix show it's called The Later Daters, and

2233
01:44:54,600 --> 01:44:57,080
Speaker 1: I also offer coaching and matchmaking and there's a lot

2234
01:44:57,120 --> 01:44:58,400
Speaker 1: more great info on my site.

2235
01:44:58,479 --> 01:44:59,759
Speaker 2: I am going to be sending a lot of people

2236
01:44:59,760 --> 01:45:02,599
Speaker 2: matt making your way. I'm so glad we finally met. Yeah.

2237
01:45:02,720 --> 01:45:04,720
Speaker 1: Jay, this was even better than I expected, and I

2238
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:07,040
Speaker 1: really appreciate all the work and good vibes you put

2239
01:45:07,080 --> 01:45:07,639
Speaker 1: out into the world.

2240
01:45:07,680 --> 01:45:09,960
Speaker 2: Thank you, you the best. This is awesome. Thank you so much.

2241
01:45:10,120 --> 01:45:12,640
Speaker 2: If you love this episode, you're going to love my

2242
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:16,160
Speaker 2: conversation with Matthew Hussey on how to get over your

2243
01:45:16,200 --> 01:45:19,200
Speaker 2: ex and find true love in your relationships.

2244
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:24,640
Speaker 4: Make a list of the things that are truly important

2245
01:45:25,720 --> 01:45:28,920
Speaker 4: for you to find in a partner, and then be

2246
01:45:29,080 --> 01:45:29,519
Speaker 4: that list