WEBVTT - External Exam - Travel From Mouth to Anus with Author, Mary Roach! 0:00:04.720 --> 0:00:12.879 Mother Knows Death Presents External Exams with Nicole and Jimmy. 0:00:16.840 --> 0:00:20.520 Hi everyone, Welcome to this week's external exam on mother 0:00:20.640 --> 0:00:24.920 Knows Death. Today's guest is Mary Roach. So I wanted 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.280 to tell you this. In two thousand and seven, I 0:00:27.360 --> 0:00:30.720 was in pa school learning how to do autopsies and stuff, 0:00:31.160 --> 0:00:34.600 and I was on my school break and I thought, Okay, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:37.640 I need to read a book that's for pleasure. But 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:41.000 I'm a scientist, I'm a Doyork, so of course I 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.040 wanted to read something that was about death, right, And 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:47.120 I came across your book, Stiff, and I read it 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:49.680 on the airplane on the way to Vegas with my friends, 0:00:50.320 --> 0:00:53.959 and I just can't believe that fifteen years later, I'm 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.480 talking to you right now. It's just such a crazy world. 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:00.000 Oh that's hilarious. I'm sorry you had to read it 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:02.440 on an airplane because you believe there's a chapter about 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.320 the forensics of airplane crashes. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:07.280 Exactly. 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:11.960 Well, just working in this field, I think that I 0:01:12.000 --> 0:01:16.120 am completely scared at all times of everything. And it's 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:18.720 funny in this book, Gulp, you were talking about how 0:01:18.880 --> 0:01:23.319 hot dogs are. The Academy of Pediatrics or whatever said 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:25.959 that hot dogs are one of the deadliest things for kids. 0:01:26.000 --> 0:01:27.479 And when I was. 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:31.840 When I was rotating at the Medical Examiner's office, we 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:35.200 had this case of this kid that was like three 0:01:35.400 --> 0:01:38.440 or four years old and was on the porch eating 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:41.560 and one of the people that were a neighbor that 0:01:41.640 --> 0:01:43.880 was sitting on the porch had given the kid a gripe. 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.280 And I mean, you know what I mean. 0:01:48.000 --> 0:01:52.560 Oh no, no, no, no, same shape as the windpipe exactly. 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.480 But you don't I think if you're a regular person, 0:01:56.520 --> 0:01:58.360 you don't really think about stuff like that. 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:00.680 And the guy's just like, oh, your kid, you want 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:02.560 a grape? And then and then it was the neighbor's 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:04.360 kid that died. Like how horrible is that? 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:04.760 You know? 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.679 Oh, you don't ever recover from that. Imagine the guilt. Yeah, 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.520 nobody knows. I didn't know until I somebody told me 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.200 about yeah, grapes. 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.480 So you're probably much like me that you're constantly freaking 0:02:20.520 --> 0:02:22.800 out about stuff that you never knew about until you 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:24.480 started doing research on it. 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:28.960 I know too much, Nicole, not nearly as much as 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:31.400 you do, though, No, I see everything. 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:33.799 You definitely know more than me, trust me. I've read 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:35.040 your books, your no no. 0:02:36.919 --> 0:02:39.720 I guess my first question is going to be the 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:42.520 one that you probably hear all the time. I know 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.240 that when I get interviewed, people always say have you 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:50.440 always been obsessed with death? And I'm like and I'm like, no, 0:02:50.560 --> 0:02:53.440 I haven't. Actually I wasn't like some goth like eight 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:55.799 year old, you know what I mean. But I've always 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:59.760 been interested in how things work and breaking down things. 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:03.040 And I'm assuming that you're the same way. So what 0:03:03.160 --> 0:03:06.840 made you decide or not necessarily decide, or how did 0:03:06.880 --> 0:03:11.320 you fall into You were going not become an official 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:14.160 scientist where you go to a lab every day and work, 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.280 and you were going to research about it and write it. 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:23.200 I didn't take science in high school or college. I 0:03:23.320 --> 0:03:28.080 was a liberal arts major, which of course prepares you 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:34.120 for nothing. Well I shouldn't say nothing in the lights, 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:38.280 but no specific job. So you know, one thing I 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:41.000 could do is string words together. You do have to 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.680 be able to do that to graduate. So I started 0:03:43.680 --> 0:03:48.200 as a general journalist, general writer, magazine writer. And one 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:50.320 of the places I worked for in the early days 0:03:50.320 --> 0:03:54.160 of my career was a magazine called Hippocrates. It was 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.440 a local I mean, they were headquartered here in the 0:03:57.440 --> 0:04:00.000 Bay Area, and it was medicine and health and all 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:06.800 things related, and they had a wonderfully lenient approach so 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.200 that I could do things like say, oh, well, okay, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.200 so you want something about weight loss. What if we 0:04:13.160 --> 0:04:15.640 what if I went to Tokyo and talked to sumo 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:18.000 arrestlers about how they put on a massive amount of 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.640 weight and then tell people maybe they could do the opposite, 0:04:20.680 --> 0:04:23.160 like is there there? And they'd be like, okay, do 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.520 That's so cool? So I wrote for them for a 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.680 long time. It was a wonderful experience. But that was 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:35.480 really how I came to writing about else and the 0:04:35.560 --> 0:04:40.479 human body. And Stiff grew out of a column I 0:04:40.520 --> 0:04:43.000 did later similar subject area for so it was for 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:49.360 Salon dot Com, and Stiff was something that I had 0:04:49.360 --> 0:04:54.400 written one short piece about. I stumbled onto these books 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.320 in the basement of the UCSF Medical School here in 0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.679 the Bay Area, and they had a row of books 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.440 called the STAB Car Crash Conference, the papers of the 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:07.200 STAB Car Crash Conference. I'm like, what car crash Conference? 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.239 And I started looking through it and they were talking 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:12.359 about This was the sixties and late fifties and the 0:05:12.480 --> 0:05:15.359 early days of automotive safety, where there were no safe 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.080 seat built, no air bags, The cars were just designed 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:21.000 to look cool. And then they'd realized people were getting 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:23.599 mangled and killed and that maybe they should look into 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.520 making them safer. And so to make a crash test 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.520 dummy for example, you know, you needed the bodies to 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.599 calibrate them. You know, the dummy would tell you what 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.400 the force was and the acceleration, et cetera. You had 0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:39.120 to know what is that kind of force or what 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:42.080 does that do to a body? So they needed cadavers 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:44.360 for that. So I had written about that, and then 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:49.599 a out of that column, the book kind of agent 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.040 contacted me and said, do you ever think about the books? 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:54.119 That's really cool? 0:05:54.200 --> 0:05:58.040 So I guess when you posted articles with that content, 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.880 it got a big response obviously, because people are into 0:06:01.920 --> 0:06:04.920 it as much as Yeah, they try to say. 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:06.479 Like, oh, don't talk about that stuff. 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:09.599 It upsets people, but there's a huge population of people 0:06:09.800 --> 0:06:11.400 that obviously love that stuff. 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:15.479 Well yeah, and you know, I think there's a a 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:21.360 kind of built in fascination for cadavers only because we're 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:24.880 all going to end up that way. So it's personal 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:27.359 to everybody in a weird way, you know, and everybody 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.920 drives a car. So people are frightened by and kind 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:34.400 of obsessed by that whole notion of the car crush. 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:36.719 So I think it had that particular topic. 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:40.159 It was appealing to people, you know, it appeals to 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:47.080 their curiosity and cure mix of curiosity and fear and yeah, 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:47.880 I don't know what. 0:06:47.839 --> 0:06:50.520 Else, but anyway, it turned out to be an okay 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.280 mix for a book. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:55.120 It's interesting that you talk about that because that was 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:58.000 one of my biggest things when everybody was freaking out 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:00.680 about people dying from COVID and stuff. I was just like, 0:07:00.720 --> 0:07:03.320 you realized that there's a way higher chance of you 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.760 dying in a car, right, But how people don't want 0:07:06.760 --> 0:07:08.960 to think about that, you know, No. 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:11.640 I know some of it, especially towards you know, towards 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:15.880 the end of it, there were some conversations about you know, 0:07:15.920 --> 0:07:18.520 I mean, I'm I support wearing masks, you know, and 0:07:18.760 --> 0:07:21.680 it was you know, I'm not against that, But there 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:25.000 was a point at which some you know, the people 0:07:25.040 --> 0:07:28.760 were talking about I don't feel comfortable with whatever it was, 0:07:28.800 --> 0:07:32.800 and I'm like, you're in much greater danger driving to 0:07:32.880 --> 0:07:36.880 this event than you are. Yeah, exactly, I don't. I'm 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:39.880 not I'm not not anti mass blaining means, but just 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:44.120 the level of hysteria at certain points was kind of 0:07:44.760 --> 0:07:46.880 to me bizarre. 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:51.640 Well, yes, because you're because I'm a person that has 0:07:51.680 --> 0:07:53.640 seen a lot of dead people in my life, like 0:07:53.760 --> 0:07:56.360 way before COVID ever started, So I know lots of 0:07:56.440 --> 0:07:58.800 people die every day, and you know that as well 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.960 from your research, So I think for us it was 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:05.040 just like, yeah, people are dying. People die all the time. 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:10.000 That's what happens, all right, So getting into gulf. But 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:12.520 the biggest thing that made me fall in love with 0:08:12.600 --> 0:08:14.560 your book was when you were kind of busted on 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:17.000 your husband. Because I love to bring my husband into things, 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:22.800 and when you were saying that about his parts in 0:08:22.880 --> 0:08:27.560 bed and being sockxic gas the hydrogen sulfide farts, I 0:08:27.600 --> 0:08:30.440 was like, that's so great because that's one hundred percent 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:34.680 something I would do with my husband too. How he 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:37.400 obviously he's he's married to you and loves you and 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:41.000 think he likes that, right, Like that's he's cool with that. 0:08:40.920 --> 0:08:42.640 And he's a very good store. 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:48.240 Yeah, that's awesome totally, and he's he's like behind he's 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:49.680 because of him. 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.240 We have the line I have this line that I 0:08:52.280 --> 0:08:54.760 love in the book. I think it's in the book anyway, 0:08:54.960 --> 0:08:57.720 where they actually I don't know if it is, but 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.520 that like, for one, I did a years ago story 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:06.880 on flatulence and they had to I was a subject 0:09:06.880 --> 0:09:09.800 in the study at the Bino Digestive Disease Research Center, 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.160 and they said, well, first we need to find out 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:17.160 make sure you're a producer, like you produce enough gas, right, 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:19.839 so they have you blown the mylar bag. It's a 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:22.800 breath hydrogen test, so they have to know if you're 0:09:22.800 --> 0:09:24.640 a producer. And I said, yeah, I think I am. 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:27.320 And I said, I think my husband is an executive producer. 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:31.120 That's so great. I love that. 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.040 All the best lines I come from something to do 0:09:35.080 --> 0:09:35.240 with it. 0:09:36.120 --> 0:09:38.960 Yeah, that's it's It's cool because I I feel like 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.320 with my husband, we just constantly are going back and 0:09:42.360 --> 0:09:46.240 forth with these like like insulting jokes to each other 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:48.359 kind of but I love it. 0:09:48.360 --> 0:09:49.440 It's just what does he do? 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:51.439 My husband's a firefighter? 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:54.120 Oh okay, cold, and so he's seen a lot too. 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:59.160 Oh yeah, but he he like is really rough with 0:09:59.200 --> 0:10:01.680 me and the kids, like making jokes because and he's 0:10:01.760 --> 0:10:03.760 just like this is like sitting around the table at 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.959 the firehouse. We just they constantly rip each other. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.840 You know. So it's really good. 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:13.800 So you've been on the New York Times Bestseller seven times, 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:16.800 which is just like you're such a rock stars. Yeah, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.480 I mean it's it's just really mind blowing, honestly. But 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:24.600 of all of your books, of all those seven books, 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.360 which one is your favorite? That was your favorite to 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.760 write or favorite? 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:33.880 Yeah? Yeah, Well the research for packing from Mars I 0:10:33.920 --> 0:10:38.800 loved because I got to go on a simulated Daryl 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.920 gravity flight. You know, where the plane kind of goes 0:10:41.920 --> 0:10:45.200 and theys roller coaster pattern and as it goes over 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.040 and down, you have like twenty seconds where you are weightless. 0:10:48.080 --> 0:10:49.800 You are floating like a soap bubble. 0:10:50.120 --> 0:10:50.920 That's so fun. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.000 Oh cool it And I had always wanted to experience 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:58.280 that so and it took me a while to achieve 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:04.960 that string various people at NASA, but that was unbelievably fun. 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.640 So the research for that one was you know, that 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:11.200 might have been the most And also I got to 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.280 look to Devon Island where they have a simulated it's 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:17.080 like an analog from Mars and Moon, a simulate sort 0:11:17.080 --> 0:11:19.760 of a It looks a lot like the moon up there, 0:11:19.760 --> 0:11:22.400 so they do rover and suit rehearsals and things. So 0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.040 I love that word of the world. So that was 0:11:25.160 --> 0:11:28.200 very cool to be able to do that for packing 0:11:28.240 --> 0:11:32.920 from ours. But you know, Stiff I have his certain 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:34.560 fondness for it because it was my first book and 0:11:34.600 --> 0:11:37.720 I thought it would absolutely fail, so so excited when 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:38.880 it hit the bestseller list. 0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:41.520 Yeah, I don't. 0:11:41.880 --> 0:11:44.320 It's it's funny that you might want to beat yourself 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.480 up and think that that would fail, but then when 0:11:46.520 --> 0:11:50.320 I read it, I'm like, this is there's I know 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:52.679 that in my line of work, there's just a whole 0:11:52.840 --> 0:11:55.679 entire world of people that are just want this so 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.400 much they can't get enough of it. And you brought 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.560 it to me stream. Really, I would say for the 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.400 first time. You know what I mean, It's it's really awesome. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:07.439 Yeah, I was around the time that I think of 0:12:07.480 --> 0:12:10.600 the timing was good because it was the same year 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:16.040 that the television show Six Feet Under came. Oh yeah, 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.240 and also CSI, the early CSI, so there were a 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:21.920 lot of you know, bodies on slabs. There was a 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.319 lot of so the taboo kind of began to erode 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.559 a little bit and people were able to feel comfortable 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:30.960 being curious, which I think is healthy, and I think 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.160 that that helped a lot. But I think you're right. 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:37.120 There's a tremendous ammer people who who love this kind 0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:37.480 of thing here. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:42.080 I've had I've had similar things with my content, with 0:12:42.240 --> 0:12:45.240 people thinking that these things only need to be available 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:50.280 in medical textbooks and every day people shouldn't see them. 0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:52.560 And I disagree. 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.560 I think that if you because it's not just you're 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.120 looking at gore, like you said, like you're learning, what 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.360 do we look for? How do you prevent the things 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.480 from happening? Well, it's all about education and and just 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.959 because you're not formally going to school for it doesn't 0:13:07.960 --> 0:13:10.439 mean that you have no right to learn about it, right, 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:10.760 I know. 0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:12.680 You think, yeah, you think about I mean the thing 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:18.280 with gulp, you have this, it's just one of the systems. 0:13:18.280 --> 0:13:20.480 But you have these things going on and sign you 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:24.000 that are working miraculous and you never see them. You 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.280 don't never see your intestines. While even if you stay 0:13:27.280 --> 0:13:29.839 awake like I did during your colonoscopy, you can't. 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:33.440 You didn't do like that, do you know What's funny? 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:37.960 Like I wouldn't advise that because it's like when you know, 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:39.760 because they pushed the tube up there and they have 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.320 to push air to expand the colon, and it sounds 0:13:42.360 --> 0:13:45.080 like really juicy, did your sound like that? 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.120 Like really, No, I didn't remember. Maybe I was too 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:51.240 traumatized by the pain when they were going around in 0:13:51.240 --> 0:13:53.800 the corners, you know, the kind of stretches the colon. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:58.480 I didn't notice the sounds until I was done. And 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040 of course, you you know, you far them all out, 0:14:01.520 --> 0:14:06.560 far out all the air. But uh, but anyways, yeah, yeah, 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:09.400 I stayed awake. He's like, oh, Ken, if that's what 0:14:09.440 --> 0:14:11.440 you want, and yeah, it's like, yeah, I want to 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.120 see the because that's I'd like to be able to 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.720 see the your like your skeleton. You have this thing 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.720 inside you that's going to survive you. That's that's in 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:25.520 there and you amazing thing and you never see it. 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:28.720 So why can't so any any way you can allow 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:33.800 people to share that miracle. Frankly is uh, I'm all 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:39.120 for it. So whether that's a specimen or you know, 0:14:39.200 --> 0:14:43.600 some of the things like body worlds, the plastinated specimens, 0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:47.320 whatever it is, I'm all for that. Yeah. 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:50.200 And obviously, like so many people are too. 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.440 It's not it's not a small I feel like it's 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:55.680 really not a small population at all. There were some 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.480 really great points in your book that too. I'm gonna 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.720 give you my two b ones quotes from your book, 0:15:02.880 --> 0:15:06.080 and I think that they're really simple, but a lot 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.760 of people just don't get these concepts. One of them 0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.120 is the more you eat, the more you overeat. It's 0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:18.200 just like, it's just very simple. Right you were talking 0:15:18.280 --> 0:15:22.560 about the chapter with basically eating too much that your 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.840 stomach will explode, and a lot of things, because right 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.400 now the big thing is like this ozepic drug and 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:33.280 weight loss and obesity is a huge thing at least 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.640 in my field that we're seeing like all the time. 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:39.480 It's just all deaths people. A lot of younger people 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:40.240 are obese. 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:44.840 And it's a very simple concept to start with that 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:47.960 if you stretch your stomach out, then you're going to 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:50.200 need to eat more food all of the time. So 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:53.840 it just sounds simple, but I don't think that a 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.359 lot of people realize that it's a muscle. 0:15:56.040 --> 0:16:02.200 That you can over overwork. The other is when you. 0:16:02.160 --> 0:16:05.400 Said that pharmaceuticals are in the business of treating, not curing, 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:10.280 And I love that one too, because again, the pharmaceuticals 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.160 are a huge part of I mean you should see 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:13.920 I don't know what your local drugstores are. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:15.720 It's called CBS. I don't know if you have them, 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:18.280 but I mean the. 0:16:18.280 --> 0:16:22.560 Place is just it is crazy all the time. And 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:24.960 I have a friend that works there that is a 0:16:24.960 --> 0:16:25.960 pharmacist who. 0:16:26.040 --> 0:16:27.000 Just tells me the most. 0:16:28.480 --> 0:16:31.600 So pharmaceuticals are a huge part of life, and I 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.200 think a lot of people need to keep that in 0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:37.160 the back of their mind, that that that's a thing. 0:16:37.280 --> 0:16:42.080 Yeah, it's very sad when there's some of these relatively 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:47.800 uncommon diseases, but rather than looking for a cousin they 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:51.040 are uncommon. First of all, there's not a lot of 0:16:51.040 --> 0:16:53.960 money to be made, and also to look for a 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:59.600 cure that's a one time sale. So yeah, the ones 0:16:59.600 --> 0:17:03.160 that at that are money making are chronic. So there's 0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:08.040 lots of lots and lots of research for ways to 0:17:08.080 --> 0:17:11.800 treat chronic conditions because that's where the money is. I mean, 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:15.639 you look at those ads for all the monoclonal antibodies, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:19.119 all the maps you know on TV, all them you know, 0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:22.240 they're like twenty thousand dollars for an infusion. I mean 0:17:22.240 --> 0:17:25.800 it's on godly sums of money that those costs and 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.879 these are all chronic. It's often an im you know, 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:33.240 suppressive situation. They're like it's you know, irritable ballad chrons 0:17:33.400 --> 0:17:37.280 or eggs or you know, one of those chronic conditions. 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:42.439 But anyway, yeah, and then there's some little lethal, uncommon disease. 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:46.480 They're like nahs that am I gonna make anything for 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:49.400 those people? But I mean, I get it. It's it's 0:17:49.520 --> 0:17:52.359 very expensive too to go through the trials and to 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.320 bring a drug to market. I understand that that's expensive 0:17:55.359 --> 0:18:00.080 and the finances don't make that a smart move. So 0:18:00.400 --> 0:18:03.080 I get, I get why it happens. I mean, yeah, 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:04.800 but it's unfortunate. 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:09.840 In the book you discuss inprit so I, this topic 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:13.160 is something I've discussed before. You talk about cat. You're 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:16.560 talking about animal food, which is which is cool. I 0:18:16.600 --> 0:18:19.479 remember one of my biology tea shirts taught taught us 0:18:19.520 --> 0:18:22.800 that really long time ago, like it. He said, it 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.400 just they like they want to eat their own ship, 0:18:25.480 --> 0:18:28.520 but it needs to smell like just enough that humans 0:18:28.600 --> 0:18:30.000 kits tolerated in our house. 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:33.920 That was so that was so interesting to me, said, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:37.040 you know, the cat is the customer in a sense 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:41.280 they're eating it, but or dog. But really the customer 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.880 is the owner. So if this stuff smells like shit, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:49.159 if it smells really awful, or if it in the 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.040 case of there was a cat food where they had 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.399 had pieces colored different colors and one was colored dyed red, 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.480 and but then you know, cats puke, cats throw up, 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:00.800 something would throw up in. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.359 The red would dye the carpet if you had a 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:05.440 white carpets, And I like, nope, we're not going to 0:19:05.560 --> 0:19:06.400 use that anymore. 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.920 But just and also I love that they're very concerned 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:15.199 with dogs, who they don't want something that's gonna be 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.840 difficult to pick up. So the food is designed to 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:21.760 make the ship pick up able. God right, you know 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:22.240 they don't. 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:26.439 Yeah, it's so what I'm trying to get at with 0:19:26.480 --> 0:19:29.520 this is one of the parts. You said that they 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.520 were trying to make vegetarian cat food. 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:33.720 Yeah. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:39.080 Yeah, obviously like cats carnivores, right, So. 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:41.680 This is my whole argument. 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:47.560 Often since people, based on our teeth, are omnivores, what 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.040 do you think do you do you feel kind of 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:53.480 the same way when people say that being vegan is 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:59.600 healthy or healthier than eating meat, or that it. It's 0:19:59.680 --> 0:20:02.960 not like or trying to just eliminate meat from our 0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:07.280 diets in general. When I feel like as I always 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.600 try to look at us as animals. 0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.920 Too, because we are technically right right. 0:20:12.119 --> 0:20:16.760 And since we're omnivores, not to say that began people 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.040 can't be entitled to that. But when they say it's 0:20:19.040 --> 0:20:21.600 healthier than me, I kind of think, well, like, I. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:23.560 Don't know we were supposed to eat. It's like saying 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:24.480 I mean, I. 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:29.000 Think I think when I think of it, just because 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.840 of my most recent book, bears came to mind, and 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.639 bears are omnivores and they eat a lot of They 0:20:34.720 --> 0:20:37.160 do eat meat. They will eat meat, you know, they'll 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:40.560 eat they'll scavenger, carcass, they'll eat they'll sometimes kill something, 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:49.639 but mostly they're eating acorns and grasses and berries, and 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:52.679 so that's I mean, I think. I think being an 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.239 omnionivre is just sort of evolutionarily. It's kind of like 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.359 we can process anything you know, good for us. We 0:21:00.400 --> 0:21:01.880 can eat it. We can eat we can eat meat, 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.320 we can eat grains. We can yeah, because we've got 0:21:04.320 --> 0:21:08.400 that all purpose grinding machine and our digestion is set 0:21:08.480 --> 0:21:10.439 up to handle it all so I think we just 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:13.760 havele on, we just have moral options. I don't know. 0:21:14.160 --> 0:21:19.840 I can't speak to whether losing meat, I mean, protein 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.760 is important, but there's other sources. But I don't know 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:27.160 that it's I don't know. I don't know what these 0:21:27.359 --> 0:21:30.399 facts are in terms of what's healthier. I know, you know, 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.400 a Mediterranean diet is supposed to be healthy, but I don't. 0:21:34.600 --> 0:21:36.280 I mean, I don't I eat meat. 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.080 And yeah, I'm curious too because you said that availability, 0:21:41.240 --> 0:21:44.400 like obviously one hundred years ago, three hundred years ago, 0:21:44.440 --> 0:21:48.960 there wasn't grocery stores that had pea protein sandwiches or whatever. 0:21:49.320 --> 0:21:52.560 But so that's interesting to me for as far as 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.600 an evolutionary perspective, like if our teeth will start changing 0:21:56.680 --> 0:22:00.199 over not anytime soon that we'll see, but over the 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:02.600 course of hundreds and thousands of years because of the 0:22:02.640 --> 0:22:04.240