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Speaker 1: Hi, everybody. I am sitting across from the one and

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Speaker 1: Only and my dear friend, the most wonderful person, Shawna Rhymes,

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Speaker 1: And we are here talking about adoption. It is Adoption

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Speaker 1: Awareness Month. Yeah, and Shanna has to experiences adopting. Um,

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Speaker 1: did you know from the time you like, how long

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Speaker 1: did you know you wanted to? Like, was it something

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Speaker 1: that just you knew right away you wanted to do

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Speaker 1: or was it over years? I think I always knew

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Speaker 1: I wanted to adopt, Like I've always known that I

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Speaker 1: was going to adopt children. The idea that, um, I

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Speaker 1: would grow something inside me and it would come out

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Speaker 1: was never a thing that sounded exciting to me. It's not.

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Speaker 1: And also, I think you know, I was a huge

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Speaker 1: reader as a kid, and in every children's book you

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Speaker 1: ever read, there's always an orphan and so somehow to me,

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Speaker 1: like adoption always seemed like a thing I knew I

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Speaker 1: was going to do. Then um I got older and

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Speaker 1: then illogically adopted became a thing I really needed to do.

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Speaker 1: So and it was lucky that it didn't phase me

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Speaker 1: at all. I was kind of like relieved, like like

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Speaker 1: this always made sense to and I was like the

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Speaker 1: universe is just falling into place um and then on

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Speaker 1: top of which, when I knew it was the right

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Speaker 1: time to adopt was it was. I went to like

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Speaker 1: I was a writer, and I was sort of I

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Speaker 1: don't know, you're like in your I was in my

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Speaker 1: early thirties and I had done broken up with somebody,

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Speaker 1: and I was doing that thing where you're like really

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Speaker 1: into yourself amazing hard. And I rented a like a

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Speaker 1: small house in Vermont, like on like Airbnb, but there

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Speaker 1: was no Airbnb back then, but like that version of something,

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Speaker 1: and flew to Vermont and like drove like through the

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Speaker 1: night to this lovely little place by myself, and I

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Speaker 1: was going to write for a month and like find myself.

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Speaker 1: I had been reading a lot of Alice Walker. And

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Speaker 1: the next day eleven happened, and so I was trapped

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Speaker 1: in the middle. Basically, I was trapped in the middle

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Speaker 1: of nowhere. Nobody I knew, while it felt like the

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Speaker 1: world was ending, and I was super panicked and just

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Speaker 1: watching like hour after hour of like what was the

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Speaker 1: most traumatic stature. And I remember thinking to myself on

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Speaker 1: on that day, like, oh my god, the world's gonna

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Speaker 1: end and I will have never been a mom, like

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Speaker 1: I've never had a baby. I will have never done

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Speaker 1: the thing that I've always really just felt strongly about

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Speaker 1: wanting to do. And it was surprising to me that

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Speaker 1: that was the thing that was at the top of

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Speaker 1: my list of like this. It wasn't a career thing,

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Speaker 1: or it wasn't a career thing. It wasn't it wasn't

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Speaker 1: a guy, it wasn't a I want to travel the world.

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Speaker 1: It was it was I will never never had a daughter.

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Speaker 1: And so I went home and I hired an adoption

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Speaker 1: attorney and literally nine months and two days after eleven,

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Speaker 1: Harper was born. What, oh my gosh, I just got

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Speaker 1: goose bumps, like serious goose bumps. So was it a

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Speaker 1: public adoption a private adoption? Had you do? Were you

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Speaker 1: around people who had adopted before that could help you

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Speaker 1: give advice or was it like you googled an adoption

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Speaker 1: at like I have to say it, Okay, it was

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Speaker 1: a private adoption. And not only wasn't EYE around anybody

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Speaker 1: who had adopted before. I was the only person I knew.

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Speaker 1: I mean I was thirty two. Yeah, I was gonna say,

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Speaker 1: did any of your friends even have babies? Because like,

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Speaker 1: I was the only person I knew who had a baby,

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Speaker 1: Like my friends were still going out to the clubs,

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Speaker 1: Like I was literally the only person knew had a baby,

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Speaker 1: and I was the only single mom I lost. Basically,

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Speaker 1: I feel like some people were like, you lost your mind,

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Speaker 1: but it felt completely right and completely normal. And my

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Speaker 1: friends at thirty two had given me a call saying like, oh,

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Speaker 1: guess what. I figured out what I'm gonna do after

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Speaker 1: sitting in this cottage in Vermont by myself. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to adopt a baby by myself. I would be like, no,

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Speaker 1: you're not, Like that's insane. I think all of my

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Speaker 1: friends thought I had lost my mind, but they were

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Speaker 1: all very like, Okay, I guess this is happening, you know,

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Speaker 1: but they thought I was bonkers. It was it just

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Speaker 1: didn't mesh with anybody's lifestyle. But you had a real

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Speaker 1: feeling like in your gut, and Olivia Pope like gut

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Speaker 1: you knew what you knew. My gut told me everything

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Speaker 1: I needed to know, and it did not feel wrong

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Speaker 1: at all. So how did you find an adoption attorney? Um?

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Speaker 1: I asked around, like I had you know, if you're

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Speaker 1: a writer in this town, you have an attorney. I

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Speaker 1: asked my attorney to like go out into the attorney

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Speaker 1: world and ask who adoption attorneys were. I knew, like

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Speaker 1: I've done enough reading. Um, if you were going to adopt,

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend that you read this book by Dan Savage.

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Speaker 1: Dan Savages book The Kid is my favorite book about

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Speaker 1: adoption ever, just because it's so honest and irreverent and raw.

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Speaker 1: And it was the first book I read that felt

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Speaker 1: like somebody, like you know, somebody with a dark and

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Speaker 1: twisty mind was adopting a kid versus yeah, versus like

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Speaker 1: somebody who like should be in good housekeeping, which I

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Speaker 1: never was gonna be. Um, what kind of questions did

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Speaker 1: you like when you knew that you were going to

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Speaker 1: adopt a baby? Did you know what he or she

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Speaker 1: looked like? Oh, you said daughter, so you knew it

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Speaker 1: was going to be a girl. Did you also find

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Speaker 1: yourself very selective as far as what that you knew

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be a little girl of color, that

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Speaker 1: you wanted to be a certain age. So so when

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Speaker 1: I so I found this adoption attorney and I did

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Speaker 1: that over an agency just because I had read a

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Speaker 1: little bit and it seemed like an attorney made sense.

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Speaker 1: In this state, every law has every state has different laws,

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Speaker 1: um and every state it works differently, like some states

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Speaker 1: agencies are better in some states. Whatever. So I found

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Speaker 1: my adoption attorney and he basically said to me, you

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Speaker 1: need to be really clear about what you want, like

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Speaker 1: and that sounded so weird, like suddenly you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're shopping for a person. It's like that. It feels

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Speaker 1: kind of gross. But he was really clear, he said,

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Speaker 1: the clearer you are about what you want, I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can say to me that I'm super open, and

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Speaker 1: that's fine, But if you're really specific about what it

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Speaker 1: is that's important to you, then what is in your

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Speaker 1: head I can put in your arms. So and that

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Speaker 1: made sense because think about this idea of for a

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Speaker 1: lot of people, and I off this for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, they have dreamed of like making a baby

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Speaker 1: their entire lives, of being pregnant, of having a child

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Speaker 1: that's biologically linked to them, and then they have to

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Speaker 1: deal with that grief and that loss of not being

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Speaker 1: able to do that. And then once they've dealt with that,

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Speaker 1: now they have this image in their head of what

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Speaker 1: they always thought their child was going to be like

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Speaker 1: and then to have a child put in their arms

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Speaker 1: that is nothing like their imagination. For a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that it's very in congress and maybe doesn't work. Um. Plus,

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Speaker 1: let's be frank people have biases. People just do, and

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Speaker 1: I frankly do not want a child of color placed

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Speaker 1: in the arms of somebody who has a bias. Good

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Speaker 1: But for me, you know, he was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: what are you looking for? I knew that I wanted

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Speaker 1: a girl, and I wanted a girl because I was

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Speaker 1: a single I knew I was gonna be a single mom,

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Speaker 1: and if I was going to be a single mom,

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Speaker 1: I just felt strongly. While I also believe it's the

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Speaker 1: feminist job to raise sons, I felt like as a

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Speaker 1: single mom, I really wanted I didn't. I was like,

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Speaker 1: I know, I know how to teach a young woman,

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Speaker 1: how to you know, a girl how to be a

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Speaker 1: young woman. I don't know if I'd know how to

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Speaker 1: teach a little boy how to be a man. When

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Speaker 1: I was just hysterical when I found out that I

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Speaker 1: was having a boy, and I was like, this is

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Speaker 1: the worst. Like, I mean, I love him, but I

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Speaker 1: was horrified. I mean, I'm just so scared about raising

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Speaker 1: a feminist man in this world. I mean it's it's

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Speaker 1: any guy you put out into the world's going to

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Speaker 1: be fantastic. Okay, So you knew you wanted a girl

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Speaker 1: that made sense to you. Yes, I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: a girl, And then I knew I wanted an African

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Speaker 1: American black. I don't know how, but I knew I

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Speaker 1: wanted a brown skinned child who looked like me in

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Speaker 1: the sense of I wanted her to be as dark

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Speaker 1: as me. I wanted her to be darker. I didn't care,

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Speaker 1: but I wanted to make sure that when we were

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Speaker 1: out in public, you know, our skin looked like she

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Speaker 1: could look at my face and see herself in some way. Um.

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Speaker 1: I just think that's important. And I also just felt

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Speaker 1: like this idea that, um, there's a there's a whole

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Speaker 1: colorism thing that happens in this country where people prefer

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Speaker 1: lighter skinned babies, and I was like, that didn't even

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Speaker 1: occur to me. I just wanted a brown skinned baby.

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Speaker 1: What about baby versus? Did you know that you wanted

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Speaker 1: a baby you were on this journey for in your

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Speaker 1: mind you had set you knew you wanted a baby. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the one thing I can be absolutely sure.

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Speaker 1: I was like, there's this like weird baby fever thing

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Speaker 1: that overtakes you once to decide you want a kid.

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Speaker 1: And you know what I'm talking. Were like I would

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Speaker 1: see babies in the grocery store and think like if

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Speaker 1: I just picked that baby up, and just like right,

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Speaker 1: I have it so bad right now for not even

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Speaker 1: only my baby, like my baby is not around me

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Speaker 1: or something that I see a baby. There was a

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Speaker 1: baby on the plane yesterday and I was in New

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Speaker 1: York and I was like, excuse me, do you mind

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Speaker 1: if I just hold and smell your baby, like for

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Speaker 1: good five minutes. It's like an addiction. It's bad. Baby

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Speaker 1: fever is a real thing. Um. And my sister had

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Speaker 1: just had some you know, had babies, and I was

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Speaker 1: just like they just like they were turning three, and

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Speaker 1: I was like I was missing the baby. I wanted

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Speaker 1: a baby. Yeah, did you, um, did you prepare? Did

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Speaker 1: you have a baby's room ready? Were you registered? Or

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Speaker 1: did you feel like I don't even care about this stuff,

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Speaker 1: I'm too nervous. How did you feel? Um? I by

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Speaker 1: the way people respond this way, whether or not it's

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Speaker 1: biological or adopted, like I know people who you know.

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Speaker 1: My mom was like, don't don't you dare make a

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Speaker 1: baby's room until that baby's out because it's super you know, superstitious.

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Speaker 1: And the first time around, um, and I do know this,

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Speaker 1: I feel like everybody, it doesn't matter if you're pregnant

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Speaker 1: or amisurrogate or we're adopting. Everybody has different plants. The

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Speaker 1: first time around, I decorated the most beautiful babies room

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Speaker 1: you've ever seen in your entire life. Um, and it was.

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Speaker 1: It's an extraordinarily gorgeous baby's room and with every single

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Speaker 1: thing in it in the world and it was spectacular. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then I came home with that baby. Yeah. This, Yes,

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Speaker 1: that happened. So the second and then it all worked

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Speaker 1: out in the end, like I came home with that

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Speaker 1: baby and then I went back to get the baby.

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Speaker 1: But it but it was it was the lesson of

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Speaker 1: a lifetime. Yeah, and it was probably the worst thing

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Speaker 1: that's ever happened to me in my entire life. So

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Speaker 1: the second time around, with my second child, I did nothing.

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Speaker 1: Like I had a room like literally there was like

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Speaker 1: a starkly empty room with This is how women kind

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Speaker 1: of protect themselves. I mean, once you've gone through something

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Speaker 1: like that, did you have was it hard for you

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Speaker 1: to pick yourself back up? And we've talked about this

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Speaker 1: a little bit with adoption. Just it is your cautiously

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Speaker 1: optimistic the whole time. It's really scary, you know what

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Speaker 1: it is. And I think for me, I was I've

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Speaker 1: always been this person who I was always I really

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Speaker 1: like bonded with the concept of a birth month and

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Speaker 1: like what somebody else is going through and what somebody

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Speaker 1: else is feeling, because you know, this is as much

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Speaker 1: somebody else's journey as it is yours, you know. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of people are busy thinking about like

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Speaker 1: what's happening to me? What's happening to me? This is

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Speaker 1: I'm getting a baby. One of the things that I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of friends now who are who adopt,

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Speaker 1: and one of the things I always tell them is like,

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Speaker 1: it is not your baby, Like you are only going

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Speaker 1: to the hospital to see if maybe this could possibly

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Speaker 1: be your baby. That's a great change, Like this is

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Speaker 1: maybe possibly your baby, but this is not your baby.

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Speaker 1: And when you go to the hospital and when you're there,

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Speaker 1: I don't care how excited you might be feeling it.

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Speaker 1: This is not your baby. You're going to be with

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Speaker 1: somebody else who's in crisis, who is having a baby

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Speaker 1: and having their own experience, and nobody tells you that,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: first time around was a really i opening, like emotional

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Speaker 1: experience for me and for the birth mom. And to have,

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Speaker 1: you know, to to have somebody in like the laws

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Speaker 1: of like that state, like we have to make a

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Speaker 1: decision like right away. To have to make a decision

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Speaker 1: like that, like twenty four hours after you've had you've

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Speaker 1: had a baby, He's crazy. And so I absolutely get

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Speaker 1: why she was like changed my mind not doing this

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Speaker 1: um and then like I ended up like literally like

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Speaker 1: just and by the way, this is another piece of

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Speaker 1: advice I give people. Don't pick your baby up by yourself.

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Speaker 1: Don't feel pick your baby up by yourself. People, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you need a support network, you need this, Like right

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Speaker 1: it was, I mean I was this night. I literally

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Speaker 1: was like I'm decorating a nursery. I'm gonna go pick

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Speaker 1: up my baby. I'll be home tomorrow. Like it was

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Speaker 1: so like me and my baby were about to take well.

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Speaker 1: I was also like I'm a single mother, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: do this. It's gonna be me and the baby. It

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Speaker 1: was the dummest thing in the world because then when

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Speaker 1: you're in the weird devastation mode, you're like, how do

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Speaker 1: I have to go to the airport and find a

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Speaker 1: way to get home and figure this whole thing out? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And so I got home and then there's you're staring

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Speaker 1: at the nursery and then luckily, twenty four hours later,

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Speaker 1: I'm getting back on a plane to go back and

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Speaker 1: pick her up again, which was amazing. But still it

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Speaker 1: was like up down, up, down, up down, an emotional

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Speaker 1: whirlwind and it was definitely meant to be. And what

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Speaker 1: I love about it is I can say to my daughter, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, your birth mother really really made struggled and

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Speaker 1: made the you know, worked hard on that decision, and

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Speaker 1: decision was very stressful for her. But yeah, dying to

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Speaker 1: know since what's so cool about having harper Um and

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Speaker 1: Emerson is like, I'm curious to know how you tell

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Speaker 1: them and talk to them about adoption. And the conversations

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Speaker 1: are interesting because I have uh sixteen year old who's adopting.

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Speaker 1: I have a six year old who's adopted, and I

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Speaker 1: have a five year old who's born to be a surrogate,

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Speaker 1: who's but is biologically my child. So I'm actually you're

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Speaker 1: the master storyteller and vocabulary person, so I'm curing how

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Speaker 1: you talk. I mean, I would be at a loss.

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Speaker 1: I've done really well with the adoption thing. And one

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Speaker 1: of the things I did with starting with Harper was

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Speaker 1: from like the day I brought her home, I was

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Speaker 1: like telling the adoption story, like I was working on

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Speaker 1: the adoption language, so that from the time she was young.

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Speaker 1: It was never like, oh, you're thirteen, now you can understand.

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Speaker 1: Now I'm going to tell you. I was putting her

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Speaker 1: in her career at night and going like I'm so

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Speaker 1: glad we got adopted, or aren't we lucky? You know

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Speaker 1: some like we adopted each other, Like I was doing

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Speaker 1: that from the so that because you sound really dorky

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Speaker 1: and nervous saying things like that, it's like talking to

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Speaker 1: your kid about sex or something. It just sound dorky

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Speaker 1: and nervous like saying these words in the beginning. But

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Speaker 1: by the time she was three, you said it all

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Speaker 1: the time. It was nothing I said. It's so much

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Speaker 1: that it was just like second nature. It's just here,

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Speaker 1: and I sounded really comfortable and felt really comfortable saying

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Speaker 1: and it wasn't awkward for me, and it wasn't awkward

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Speaker 1: for her so much so that she'd heard it so

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Speaker 1: much that she was like, yeah, yeah, whatever, this is brilliant.

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Speaker 1: I think this is so great. And I remember she danced.

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Speaker 1: She was she was at dance class, and she ran

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Speaker 1: into dance class one day and she was like maybe five,

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Speaker 1: and she looked at the dance teacher and she said,

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Speaker 1: I'm adopted, like it had just occurred to her, like

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Speaker 1: what it meant. But she said it was such joy

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Speaker 1: and her dance teacher looked at her and goes, I know,

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Speaker 1: and then she like high fived her and then went

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Speaker 1: on and like that was kind of her moment of

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Speaker 1: like understanding what these sentences had meant her whole life,

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Speaker 1: and she had always heard and now maybe she was

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Speaker 1: really comprehending with the word at night. And So I've

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Speaker 1: been playing with this idea of you answer the questions

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Speaker 1: they ask, but also just make it a fact of life.

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Speaker 1: So I did that with Emerson, and I did that

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Speaker 1: with Harper, and then one day Emerson and Beckett and

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Speaker 1: I and we're in bed reading and Beckett said, I'm

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Speaker 1: so glad we got adopted. And I realized that I've

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Speaker 1: maybe missed a step. So Becket's the baby and she's

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Speaker 1: not adopted. I realized I missed a step. And I

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Speaker 1: suddenly realized I had not quite figured out how to

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Speaker 1: explain and how this egg because we you know, all

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Speaker 1: of these all grown in somebody else's tummies, and you've

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Speaker 1: all you know what I mean, and you're all then

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Speaker 1: you all came home and it's it's but it's not

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Speaker 1: the same, and we all have the same picture with

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Speaker 1: the adoption attorney, with the adoption judge. The courts are

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Speaker 1: from the courthouse that day when they're the adoption was official.

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Speaker 1: Even I even have one with with the judge because

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Speaker 1: of Becket, because I was like, we have to take

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Speaker 1: one with the surrogate. But it's all it's all vague

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Speaker 1: to her. And I was like, I don't know how

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Speaker 1: to explain this one yet, so I'm working on it.

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Speaker 1: She's so, how old is she? No, she's four, and

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Speaker 1: I'm always out of five. I'm always like, we got surrogated.

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Speaker 1: She's like, I don't know what that is, and I'm

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Speaker 1: like I don't know either. Can you talk me through

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Speaker 1: the first couple weeks and months when you had Harper

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Speaker 1: and when you had like did you get her and

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Speaker 1: finally and bring her home this and you completely flipped out,

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Speaker 1: lost your mind? Did it fit perfectly? Were you like

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Speaker 1: calling all of your clubbing friends and you were like,

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Speaker 1: what was it? Like? It's funny? Okay, So yes, I

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Speaker 1: mean I think when when Harper came home. No, I

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Speaker 1: don't think I flipped out at all. Actually, I think

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Speaker 1: I was exhausted. Um. I think I was wildly naive

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Speaker 1: about what having a baby was like, even though I'm

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Speaker 1: the youngest of six and all my filings said babies.

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Speaker 1: I was wildly naive about what having a baby was like.

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Speaker 1: And I had like a movie do that I was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be writing that like it was crazy. But

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Speaker 1: I also feel like I was like so excited to

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Speaker 1: be a mom and so excited to be there, and

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Speaker 1: I'm so excited to be doing it. I was fine.

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Speaker 1: What I think is interesting is people always ask me,

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Speaker 1: or they don't ask me, and they kind of want

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Speaker 1: to ask, like does it feel different? Like you have

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Speaker 1: like questions you have like a biological kid and you

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Speaker 1: have to it not at all, like in a weird way.

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Speaker 1: What's cool is you can really, you can really speak

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Speaker 1: on this because you have I mean, Beckett looks like you.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, you know, and she looks like the spitting

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Speaker 1: image of you to me. Um. And so when people

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Speaker 1: are saying, oh that biological thing, like you look at

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Speaker 1: your baby's eyes and you see yourself, Like, do you

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Speaker 1: feel did it feel different at first? No? It really didn't.

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Speaker 1: I mean it truly didn't. And it's interesting how much

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Speaker 1: it didn't. Like Harper and I were like this little

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Speaker 1: team forever, and so we were like we were super bonded.

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Speaker 1: It was just her and I and it never that

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Speaker 1: was never a thing that I felt like. I didn't

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Speaker 1: I looked into her eyes and we weren't reflected in

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Speaker 1: one another. And then Emerson and I were super bonded,

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Speaker 1: like I brought her to work with me every day

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Speaker 1: and she would sit in the writer's room and I

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Speaker 1: was like, she's like somehow she was like my emotional

377
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Speaker 1: soul mate in some deep way. Like I was like,

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Speaker 1: she's got the soul of a writer and her like

379
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,600
Speaker 1: we were that way. Beckett, it was, it was the same.

380
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Speaker 1: It was actually in a lot of ways. I was like,

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Speaker 1: this girl's complicated, like she was. She was the baby

382
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Speaker 1: that like to cry a lot, and so I was like,

383
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Speaker 1: this is a complicated kid. Well you know what's interesting.

384
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Speaker 1: I mean, I know my my my son is I

385
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:18,720
Speaker 1: pushed him out, but when I brought him home, I

386
00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 1: kept saying to Addam for like six weeks, like I

387
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Speaker 1: don't feel any I feel like he is a complete

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Speaker 1: stranger to me. Like I had the hardest time, Like

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at him and I know I'm supposed to

390
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Speaker 1: feel a certain way or I'm supposed to feel this

391
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Speaker 1: like bond in a connection he's my son, but I

392
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Speaker 1: did not feel that at all. I mean, I was like,

393
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Speaker 1: who is this stranger in my house? And why have

394
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Speaker 1: you messed up my life? Like it's like this is

395
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Speaker 1: not so. I think it's just I think it's different

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Speaker 1: for each person. Like I just think, I don't know.

397
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Speaker 1: I think people like to take things that happen and

398
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Speaker 1: attribute them to the nearest possible difference, do you know

399
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:57,440
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like I have a friend who attributes

400
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Speaker 1: everything in her life that doesn't work out to the

401
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,359
Speaker 1: fact that like I grew up without a dad, like

402
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,960
Speaker 1: she always says that, I'm like, that's not because you

403
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,120
Speaker 1: grew up without a dad, you know what I mean?

404
00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 1: Or or like if you didn't feel a bond and

405
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,960
Speaker 1: you had adopted, you might have think like it because adopted.

406
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,440
Speaker 1: But no, like you had to know where that baby

407
00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:15,360
Speaker 1: came from. You had a baby, and you you had

408
00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:18,679
Speaker 1: that feeling which and I brought home m Harper and

409
00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,040
Speaker 1: it was like you felt she always been there and

410
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:25,320
Speaker 1: we were like deeply connected. So it is very It's

411
00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: fascinating how that happens. It's not about anything. It's just

412
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:33,000
Speaker 1: you and your hormonal like experience and reaction to things. Um.

413
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Speaker 1: We talk a lot on Katie's Crib about the village

414
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,080
Speaker 1: and support system that people have. Did you find it

415
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,800
Speaker 1: difficult being matched with a birth mom because you were

416
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Speaker 1: a single mom? Like we talked about it, was it

417
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: hard for me to find it like great? No, and

418
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: this is I mean fifteen years sixteen years ago. No, Well,

419
00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:54,359
Speaker 1: hopingably it's easier now. There were two two things, which

420
00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:57,840
Speaker 1: one is dark and strange. And my adoption attorney says

421
00:20:57,840 --> 00:20:59,440
Speaker 1: this to me. He's like, this is a horrible thing

422
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,959
Speaker 1: to tell you there's going to be a baby boom

423
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,120
Speaker 1: after nine eleven, because people make babies after tragedies, so

424
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 1: there was a huge baby boom um. And I I

425
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,359
Speaker 1: was in the weirdest position of being chosen by like

426
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: fifteen different birth moms. So it was like Sophie's Choice

427
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:21,480
Speaker 1: around my house, Like there were like all of these

428
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,680
Speaker 1: dossiers of birth moms and and their stories and babies,

429
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: and it was really, uh, that's really yeah. It was stressful,

430
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: stressful because it's like, you know, how do you There

431
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 1: were twins, and it was just it was just yeah

432
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,800
Speaker 1: and a varying ages, and and I felt strongly like

433
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 1: there were a couple of things for me that felt important. One,

434
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,359
Speaker 1: I needed the story of how that child came to

435
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,760
Speaker 1: be to be a story that I felt like I

436
00:21:48,800 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: could tell my child. Like in that pile there was

437
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 1: a birth mother who was like twelve years old. I

438
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:57,200
Speaker 1: could not I don't know how I could, you know

439
00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,080
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like, while I felt for that girl,

440
00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:00,879
Speaker 1: I just didn't know how I could tell my daughter

441
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:06,040
Speaker 1: that story. Um. There were there were twins, and I

442
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 1: was like, am I ready for twins? But what it

443
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 1: really came down to for me was my birth mom

444
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: a she loved to read but be when you took

445
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 1: her photo, my siblings and I none of us look

446
00:22:21,840 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 1: like each other, but we all look exactly like my

447
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,919
Speaker 1: mom um in an odd way, right, we don't look

448
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:29,760
Speaker 1: like each other, but we all looked like my mom.

449
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: When you took my birth the birth mom's picture and

450
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,680
Speaker 1: you put it next to all of us, she didn't

451
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:37,359
Speaker 1: look like any of us, but she also looked exactly

452
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,639
Speaker 1: like my mom. It was really weird. I was like

453
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,159
Speaker 1: she got of falls in that line, and it felt

454
00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,919
Speaker 1: very like it made sense, and like you find you

455
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 1: search for your little signs, it felt like it made sense. Also,

456
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: we just we bonded, like we bonded hard. And so

457
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: that was good. Let's talk about the adoption letter, and

458
00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,679
Speaker 1: I'm sure yours was incredible. Like you had said, you

459
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: had a lot of offer. I mean, what is the

460
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,679
Speaker 1: word I was a lot of possibilities. A lot of

461
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,480
Speaker 1: birth mothers decided that they sort of chose me as

462
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,239
Speaker 1: somebody that they thought was a possibility of something they

463
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,320
Speaker 1: wanted to me. So one of the things that you

464
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 1: do is you you know, you write this letter with

465
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of pictures of yourself. You know, basically it's

466
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 1: a it's like a very weird feeling of like a

467
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 1: sales tool, almost like you do the same thing for

468
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 1: buying a house, like to put you over the edge

469
00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: if there's like multipliers. But it's a little bit like

470
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:32,440
Speaker 1: here I am, and here's who my you know, here's

471
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:34,639
Speaker 1: my life, and what your life would look like if

472
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: you choose what your kid's life would look like. So,

473
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:40,200
Speaker 1: first of all, for like three months, everywhere I went

474
00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:43,479
Speaker 1: anywhere my poor friends, I would like hand them a

475
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: camera and be like, take a picture of me jumping

476
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,639
Speaker 1: up and down in the snow, take a picture of

477
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 1: me baking this case, like holding this cake. So I

478
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,160
Speaker 1: was like, show me living my life like it was embarrassing.

479
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 1: But I also was like I don't have a lot

480
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,239
Speaker 1: of I'm a single person. I don't take a lot

481
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 1: of pictures of me, So I had to get a

482
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,600
Speaker 1: bunch of pictures of me. One two. The adoption letter

483
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,120
Speaker 1: was interesting because it really was me writing about all

484
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: the things I wanted to do with a kid, like,

485
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: you know, like I wanted to um be a brown

486
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: A trip leader, which I'm about to be. I'm so excited.

487
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:19,359
Speaker 1: I wanted to be a brown A trip leader, and

488
00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,439
Speaker 1: I wanted to have sleepovers at my house, and I

489
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 1: wanted to you know, like gurl up in bed with

490
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 1: girls and watch movies, and I wanted to read all

491
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,080
Speaker 1: the Harry Potter books and all the things that you

492
00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:29,600
Speaker 1: want to do with a kid. So like I it

493
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 1: was a lot of that, and then me just trying

494
00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:35,480
Speaker 1: to explain who I am and where I came from

495
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: and how I grew up in a huge family and

496
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: why I thought that I would make a good mother

497
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 1: for somebody, and why I wanted to adopt, and also why,

498
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,800
Speaker 1: you like, how I felt about And this was another thing.

499
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 1: It was like how I felt about this idea of

500
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: adoption in this process of spending of wirth mother and

501
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,680
Speaker 1: spending time with them. And because that's the other thing,

502
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 1: like they're they're not looking at you, because they just

503
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: are like, let me pick a perfect person. They're also like,

504
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 1: how is this going to be for me? There as

505
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 1: trepidacious as you are. So you know, it was it

506
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:11,560
Speaker 1: was me trying to convey like I know how hard

507
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:15,440
Speaker 1: this must be. Wow, that's really I don't think we've

508
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 1: heard this perspective at all, which I think is really

509
00:25:17,480 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: great the birth mom, because I'm sure some people adopted,

510
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:21,719
Speaker 1: it's must be hard for them, like they say, if

511
00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 1: they're too old or whatever their issue is, or if

512
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:26,160
Speaker 1: that they just want to And some people are probably

513
00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,360
Speaker 1: like I don't want to think much about the birth mom.

514
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 1: I just want to get the baby. But you have to. Yeah,

515
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,159
Speaker 1: I took I mean, there's a there's a class. I

516
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: think it almost everybody has taken. When you're doing your

517
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: home study, Um, you take a class that's sort of

518
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,920
Speaker 1: about all these issues. And in my class, I remember

519
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:44,480
Speaker 1: being like I was probably younger than everybody else, but

520
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: I was also the only single person in the class,

521
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: and there were a lot of people there. And I

522
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 1: think it's important dealing with infertility. Who for them, they

523
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: had they had gone through a grieving process to get

524
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,719
Speaker 1: to this place, and so to them it really was

525
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: about like it was about them, you know what I mean,

526
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 1: And like they had been waiting for years for a baby,

527
00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: and so it was like their eyes were on a prize.

528
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: And for some people that birth mother felt like just

529
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,520
Speaker 1: a means to an end versus part of the process.

530
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:19,440
Speaker 1: And I get it, but like, there's a To me,

531
00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: there was a guilt, like you are you are gonna

532
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 1: find a lot of joy in someone else's pain, right right,

533
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,080
Speaker 1: right right, And you are forever connected to this birth mother.

534
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 1: You just youre are you are, and you have to remember,

535
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 1: even if you don't see them for eighteen years, they

536
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: are going to come back around again. They really are.

537
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: Like your kid's gonna want to meet them. I'm sure

538
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,639
Speaker 1: that happens probably every case. So who was the village

539
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: that you had? I know, you come from a large

540
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,080
Speaker 1: family or the youngest of six, and your parents are

541
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 1: You're really close your parents where they just your village

542
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: when you brought Harper home and when you brought Emerson home,

543
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: and um, well my family wasn't living out here at

544
00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,600
Speaker 1: the time. But I have like my one of my

545
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: closest friends in the world is a guy named Christopher

546
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: who is Harper's godfather, who I am known forever, I mean,

547
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: like truly for I think we met this is another

548
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: weird one. We met on the day of the of

549
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: the Slow Speed Chase. The Slow Speed Chase, Yeah, I

550
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 1: think that's when he moved in that Yeah. And he's

551
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: been involved in Harper's lives and he's been involved. He's

552
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 1: a guy who literally we've just been best friends forever

553
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,760
Speaker 1: and he's a guy who he became, you know, godfather.

554
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 1: But he literally has come to over every Sunday of

555
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,480
Speaker 1: her life to spend time with her until she became

556
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 1: like fifteen, and I was like, I have to be

557
00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: with my friends, but every Sunday. And I mean like,

558
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: he got married on a Saturday and came over around

559
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: that Sunday and I was like, um, you just got married,

560
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 1: and he's like and it's Sunday, Like he's that guy. Yeah.

561
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: So you think that's probably very important for people who

562
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 1: are adopting, Like I think it's I think it's key

563
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: to have people you know, um for instance, So like

564
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,199
Speaker 1: I said, I didn't buy anything with with Emerson, and

565
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:58,159
Speaker 1: I don't think that's that's not totally true. What I

566
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 1: did was I didn't. I refused us to get anything,

567
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: and then somebody said you probably should get some stuff.

568
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 1: So first I just feeled like my Amazon cart with

569
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: everything I needed, and then I was like, well, when

570
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: the baby comes, I'll just hit But then I was like,

571
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: then I got too excited. So then I bought everything

572
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: and I shoved it in a closet like a back closet,

573
00:28:19,080 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 1: and then when the baby was when I was told

574
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: the baby was being born and I was leaving to go. Um. Yeah,

575
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: then I was like, everything's at a closet and my

576
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 1: village put it together and like opened everything and made

577
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 1: sure everything was okay. Um. Adoption has come up a

578
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: lot on all of your TV shows. You know what's

579
00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: cool about how you portray adoption is that it's it's

580
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: not the point of an episode, you know what I mean,

581
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:47,400
Speaker 1: Like it may have been back, you know, in the day,

582
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 1: like Webster or Different Strokes or things like that. Like

583
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: it's about a family that's like adopted a kid, and

584
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: in your storylines a lot of time, it's just part

585
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:58,880
Speaker 1: of it. Um, How important is it for you to

586
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: depict an adoptions? Is it just part of you? So

587
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: it just comes out like it just yeah, it just

588
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: feels like it's part of this, you know, it's it's

589
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 1: a it's part of me, Like it's a it's another

590
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: way people make a family, and it makes sense to me.

591
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 1: And frankly, it's more familiar to me than somebody giving birth,

592
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: so it just it works for me. What other I

593
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,960
Speaker 1: know you talked about the Kid Book. Are there any

594
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 1: other resources or websites that you lead friends too. I'm

595
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: glad to hear that you have a lot of friends

596
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,320
Speaker 1: who are adopting now like this is I'm sure have

597
00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: you noticed a big change between fifteen years ago and

598
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: when you adopted Emerson? Like, it's interesting. I've noticed a

599
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 1: change in this in the sense that a lot of

600
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:45,680
Speaker 1: more of my friends are adopting. But that's because my

601
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 1: friends are older. Um, and there's a there's a fertility

602
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 1: drop off, ladies. Um. If Katie does an episode on

603
00:29:52,480 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 1: freezing your eggs, okay, I have a lot to say

604
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 1: about that topic, and I know we should talk again.

605
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:59,480
Speaker 1: It's the most important thing ever. Oh I remember, I

606
00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: think I was already too. And SHAWNA. Rons is like,

607
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,880
Speaker 1: frez your eggs consultation. You know, that's the hot thing

608
00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 1: that I'm doing. Now we're going to talk about it

609
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 1: in Katy's crib. But I've been taking I take my

610
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:11,479
Speaker 1: girlfriends to their egg freezing consultations. I can't tell you

611
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: my girlfriends now. I've seen their uterus, I've seen I've

612
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: seen their eggs. I know their egg count. I hold

613
00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:20,440
Speaker 1: their hands because they're single. They want to be Mom's

614
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: really bad, and they got to take it in their

615
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: matters in their own hands. See, so everybody in my office. Um,

616
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: Betsy Beers, my producing partner, actually took me aside and

617
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: told me that she thought that it was some form

618
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: of sexual harassment for me to tell people that they

619
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: needed to freeze their eggs on a regular basis, to

620
00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: set people down and get in their face and ask

621
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: them about their uteruses. So I've tried to stop, but

622
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,160
Speaker 1: you can do it here. But I think it's important

623
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: that people preserve their fertility because I have held the

624
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 1: hands of too many women as they sobbed when they

625
00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:53,440
Speaker 1: discovered that they couldn't have kids. So but anyway, okay, way,

626
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,240
Speaker 1: we were talking about how adoption. You have noticed more

627
00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:59,720
Speaker 1: people coming to asking advice from about adopting because they're older, Yes,

628
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 1: they're older. And then you know, for instance, some people

629
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 1: have come and it's been really interesting. Have just been

630
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: like we just decided to be preferred to adopt, which

631
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: I love and I think is interesting. But I do

632
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: think that more of my friends are adopting, and I

633
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 1: think that that's good. It can't it can't be bad.

634
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: Do you have advice for people? What would you tell?

635
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: I mean, you've already dropped some real ships on this

636
00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: episode of Katie's Crib. But are is there any advice

637
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: that you would say besides don't go alone, it's a

638
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: good thing to come in there and know what exactly

639
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:31,640
Speaker 1: what you want. So I have this thing that I'm

640
00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: I'm holding some papers right now. I have this thing

641
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: that I wrote that I give to all of my

642
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:37,720
Speaker 1: friends when they're going to have a baby. Now. It's

643
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,600
Speaker 1: I call it my adoption info packet. One of my

644
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,960
Speaker 1: friends gave me cards that say like adoption doula on them,

645
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 1: which I thought was hilarious, But after she came over

646
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: with her baby, she was like, I'm going to give

647
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,720
Speaker 1: you these cards because you talk people through it, which

648
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: is funny. But a couple of the things I think

649
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,000
Speaker 1: are important is once you get matched with a birth mother,

650
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: do not tell everyone on the planet that your baby

651
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 1: is coming like you want to. You want to be

652
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: like you want to shout out from the rooftops, But

653
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: once again, this baby is not your baby. You're only

654
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,160
Speaker 1: going to see if it's your baby. So you can

655
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 1: tell a couple of close friends that your baby is coming,

656
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 1: but don't tell everybody because then you might have to

657
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 1: untell everybody and that sucks. So there's that which I

658
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,800
Speaker 1: think is important. Um, you know, but you should do,

659
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: like you should prepare as if a child is coming

660
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: in the sense of like go find a pediatrician ahead

661
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 1: of time, go you know, get all those get all

662
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: the information if you're gonna need help or a baby nurse,

663
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 1: like go go secure all those things, especially because if

664
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: the baby shows up, the first thing you're gonna want

665
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: to do when you get home, no matter how many

666
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: times the job has been to a doctor, is take

667
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 1: the baby to a pediatrician. Like there's all these things

668
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: that you're gonna want to do and you're gonna want

669
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,880
Speaker 1: to have in place. But you know, you just have

670
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,720
Speaker 1: to remember that you're preparing for a baby, not this baby.

671
00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 1: Like that's the biggest part um. Another thing that I

672
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: found out is you can get there's breast milk banks

673
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,840
Speaker 1: that you can get and you can get a prescription

674
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 1: for breast milk from a breast milk bank, and you

675
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: can feed your your baby can have breast milk um

676
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:12,560
Speaker 1: which is great for their immune system. That you can

677
00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: do a week, you can do a month, you can

678
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:16,880
Speaker 1: do two months. Like however much you can do, it's expensive,

679
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,479
Speaker 1: which is a problem. But that's us a really good

680
00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 1: thing for I meune system if you can make yourself

681
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: do that. Um oh. I always think it's important to remember,

682
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: like to remember the birth mother in all in the process.

683
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 1: And that's the thing I think people do talk about

684
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: a lot, like when you go to if you're going

685
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 1: to go to the doctor's visits, if you're going to

686
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: go to the hospital, Like don't go and fawn over

687
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:48,360
Speaker 1: like the sonogram or the baby or like hold up

688
00:33:48,360 --> 00:33:51,120
Speaker 1: a bunch of adorable baby clothes that you bought, because

689
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: she's not a part of that, Like do you know

690
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: what I mean? Like you have to be respectful of

691
00:33:55,160 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: her process, and I have her bad story, you know,

692
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: like just sad stories of like they show up and

693
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: they don't seem to carry the birth mother saying, they

694
00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: don't seem to care about me at all, Like I'm

695
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: just some vessel and you have to really remember that

696
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: in your enthusiasm. This person is a you know, like

697
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:16,600
Speaker 1: she's not a process. She's also not a vessel. She's

698
00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 1: a member of your family for the rest of your life.

699
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:21,399
Speaker 1: And I think that people don't ever think of birth,

700
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, may not think of their birth moms that way,

701
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:25,480
Speaker 1: and you really have to think of a birth mom

702
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,040
Speaker 1: that way because that is your child's other mother forever,

703
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:33,240
Speaker 1: and you want that woman to feel loved and respect

704
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: and appreciated because that is your child's other mother for

705
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,359
Speaker 1: the rest of your you know, forever. That's important. Without her,

706
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: your child wouldn't be here exactly now. I think you

707
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 1: mentioned that earlier in the podcast, which is so helpful,

708
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: Which is just that she's also going through something like this,

709
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: and so instead of maybe showing up, like you say,

710
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 1: with one's ease and pictures of the nursery room like

711
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: you just the seebe even a small thing of like

712
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: how are you doing, like you know you feel, put

713
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 1: some attention on the earth mom. I think that's huge advice.

714
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,600
Speaker 1: I've never heard anything like that. Okay, the one piece

715
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,160
Speaker 1: of advice I want to get is that when you

716
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,239
Speaker 1: do get the baby and you're in the hospital and

717
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: everything's all warm and lovely and wonderful, steal everything you

718
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,560
Speaker 1: can get your hands on in the hospital. I don't

719
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: know if people who give birth to this, but certainly

720
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 1: you're right as a mother to steal every snot sucker,

721
00:35:22,640 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: every plastic base base, and every like super everything. Steal

722
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: everything you can get your hands on. Stuff it in

723
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: a bag and take it with you. Just do it.

724
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 1: It's your You heard it here, folks, Sean Rhyme says,

725
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 1: steal it. I love it. It's true. You can have

726
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:43,480
Speaker 1: it's covered. Oh yeah, um, what do you wish you

727
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: would have known before you adopted? I think one of

728
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: the things that I think that nobody tells you about

729
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:53,080
Speaker 1: adoption that I don't think anybody can tell you really,

730
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,480
Speaker 1: or maybe people don't want to. It's like a dirty

731
00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: little secret or something, is that you have to remember

732
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: this idea that all of this will happen. You'll go

733
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 1: through this whole adoption process. You'll get this call, they'll

734
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 1: be like the baby's coming. You'll go to the hospital.

735
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: It will will actually be your baby. The moment will

736
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 1: finally arrive. They'll put this baby in your arms, and

737
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:18,319
Speaker 1: you're going to feel possibly a little bit disappointed, which

738
00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: feels crazy because you have been wishing and waiting and

739
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,879
Speaker 1: hoping and dying for this moment forever and then they've

740
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,960
Speaker 1: placed this perfect, beautiful, amazing baby in your arms and

741
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna be like, oh. And I think that that

742
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: comes from not because the baby is not amazing, but

743
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:39,160
Speaker 1: because you have had a fantasy baby in your head

744
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: for a ridiculously long period of time, and you have

745
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: imagined what this baby is going to be like. You

746
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: have braided her imaginary hair, you have played your imaginary

747
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: games with her, you have decorated her room, you have

748
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: done all of these things, and that baby is perfect.

749
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,440
Speaker 1: And then there's the real baby, who is wonderful and

750
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 1: beautiful and special. But those are two different babies, and

751
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:01,600
Speaker 1: one baby is never going to live up to the

752
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,240
Speaker 1: other baby because one does not exist. Right, So there's

753
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 1: all that feeling that's like just left there, right, And

754
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: there's nothing wrong with having that feeling. I think a

755
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: lot of people have that feeling. I must pretend like

756
00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 1: no one talks about it's like this big secrets, like

757
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: you're going to be disappointed. I think people who give

758
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:20,320
Speaker 1: birth have that feeling. I did, and I feel like

759
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 1: I'm the only person sitting here on Katie's crib. I

760
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,719
Speaker 1: talked about it all the time, like I hated it.

761
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,000
Speaker 1: And my mom swears to me she told me, but

762
00:37:27,040 --> 00:37:29,200
Speaker 1: she didn't like she was like I told you that

763
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 1: you weren't going to feel maybe anything, And I mean,

764
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: but I did. I felt disappointed, like because I had

765
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,320
Speaker 1: been imagining it for so long and they're just different.

766
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,680
Speaker 1: It's just different, and this is like you think it's

767
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: gonna be this glory. I also think in a very

768
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: different way for for adoption, Like when you're like adopting,

769
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,600
Speaker 1: you're like on this like magical, mystical, like amazing journey.

770
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 1: At least I was. I was like, the universe is

771
00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:57,440
Speaker 1: going to put me together with a baby, and we

772
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,239
Speaker 1: are you know what I mean, Like it's a spiritual thing.

773
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,440
Speaker 1: And people know you're adopting and you've been on this

774
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 1: like mission and you and a birth mother have been

775
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: connected with and you're like the literally you're like the

776
00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: universe has placed us here and you feel kind of special.

777
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,279
Speaker 1: It's like a drug, like in a weird way. You

778
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,840
Speaker 1: had to work so hard to get paperwork and meetings,

779
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: and it's been a marathon, and you are high on

780
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,439
Speaker 1: the endorphins of adoption, like like crazy, you are high,

781
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 1: and those not that drug, and then they give you

782
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,440
Speaker 1: the baby and they put you there and the marathon's

783
00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: over and the endorphins go away, and all of that

784
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,800
Speaker 1: high and all that amazing stuff and all that glory

785
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 1: is gone, like you had a baby and the universe

786
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 1: is like next, and then you just become just like

787
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: everybody else. You're no longer this like glorious, you know,

788
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,359
Speaker 1: amazing person on a quest to find your child. You're

789
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:54,440
Speaker 1: just a parent like any other parent in baby class

790
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: who's babe throwing up on them, and you haven't slept,

791
00:38:56,480 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 1: Like it's not special anymore, and that is the goal,

792
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: but it doesn't sometimes feel like the goal, and that

793
00:39:04,200 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: is okay, Like that's the thing. The thing to remember

794
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: is that now you have a stranger in your house,

795
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: which everybody has, whether or not you've given birth or not.

796
00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 1: You're a stranger in your house that you have to

797
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: get to know and like fall in love with and

798
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: figure out. But it's hard to remember that sometimes because

799
00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:22,759
Speaker 1: it did feel glorious, like even the crazy, like I'm

800
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: at the hospital, is this my baby? Is this not

801
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: my baby? Is the birth mother going to sign the papers?

802
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,040
Speaker 1: Is you're not? Like that's a crazy high, You're riding

803
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:30,960
Speaker 1: this incredible high. And then she signs the papers and

804
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 1: you just feel more alive than you've ever felt, and

805
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,480
Speaker 1: you're connected on this like crazy way and your motions

806
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: are right at the surface and then you get the

807
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: baby and then it's just regular. Just so people know,

808
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: like that is a thing and it's completely okay. It's

809
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:56,080
Speaker 1: completely okay and you and yeah, it's completely normal. It's

810
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,359
Speaker 1: completely fine. That does not like don't think like, oh

811
00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: my god, I got the wrong baby, because I don't

812
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:02,239
Speaker 1: still feel that high. I don't feel amazing. This baby

813
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 1: is not like my dream baby. The baby is your

814
00:40:04,880 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: dream baby, Like the universe gave you the baby you're

815
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 1: supposed to have. There are no mistakes. They're like, just

816
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: go with it. It's okay, that's so great. And I

817
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: think it's going to Disappointment is going to happen no

818
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:18,279
Speaker 1: matter what adoption, seriously whatever. I hear moms have it

819
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: at all. Sometimes people have that high still for a

820
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:24,239
Speaker 1: little bit and then you know, at the six week

821
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: markt reality sets in that they're not special anymore and

822
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 1: this is real. This is my life, Like, this is

823
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 1: what my life looks like. Now. That's just it. And

824
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: I think I think feeling disappointment at any point in

825
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: this journey is completely okay. And your whole motherhood is

826
00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: literally parenthood in general is just a series of disappointments.

827
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: Punctuated by moments of outrageous love. I really do. This

828
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: is exactly I feel that on a daily regular I've

829
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: learned so much about adoption in this episode. I can't

830
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: even tell you, Shanda, I'm so embarrassed, but like I

831
00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: literally showed up and said given up for adoption? Like

832
00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 1: what am I like a child from the eighties? Like

833
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,719
Speaker 1: who the hell says craft like that? Like I just

834
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: didn't even realize talk that you hear, Yes, but you

835
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: know I had to really just placed and the words

836
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:18,240
Speaker 1: that you use. And it's all important how it's talked about,

837
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 1: and and I've just learned so much, And I'm so

838
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: thankful that you opened your experience up and your stories

839
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:27,480
Speaker 1: and your advice to me and to the viewers or

840
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,759
Speaker 1: listeners guys, listeners were not on TV right now, we're

841
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 1: listening to a podcast, Shonda Rhymes. Thank you so much.

842
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 1: Thank you for being on Katie's Crib. This was so wonderful,

843
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:41,879
Speaker 1: and thank you for sharing all of your time and experience.

844
00:41:42,000 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you guys so much for listening to

845
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: Katie's Crib. We have a very special episode coming up

846
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:52,600
Speaker 1: with the One the Only Dr Harvey Carp. You guys

847
00:41:52,680 --> 00:41:54,920
Speaker 1: might know his awesome books, The Happiest Baby on the Block,

848
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: The Happiest Todds Are on the Block. He created the

849
00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 1: five s is that we all use. He also created

850
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 1: that insanely amazing, groovy space aged cradle called the Snow. Yes,

851
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 1: he's going to answer your questions right here on Katie's Crib,

852
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 1: so to get ready for that, send us your questions.

853
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: You can email us at Katie's Crib Pod at gmail

854
00:42:15,719 --> 00:42:18,760
Speaker 1: dot com or tweet your questions at me at katie

855
00:42:18,840 --> 00:42:22,359
Speaker 1: Quel's using hashtag Katie's Print. And be sure to check

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Speaker 1: out Shonda land dot com where you can find every

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Speaker 1: episode of Katie's Crib. And we've got crib notes for

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Speaker 1: each episode where you can find out more about our

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Speaker 1: guests and links to some of the resources we talked

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Speaker 1: about on the podcast. And last, but not least, subscribe.

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Speaker 1: We're on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher basically like wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your podcast