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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of My

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick, and

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Speaker 1: today we are going to be shattering some ninja's. I

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Speaker 1: am very excited. So recently we released an episode about

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Speaker 1: the science and history of a substance called pike crete,

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Speaker 1: which is a type of composite ice that was researched

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Speaker 1: in Great Britain and a little bit in Canada during

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Speaker 1: World War Two as a potential material for building aircraft carriers. Now,

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Speaker 1: the so called berg ship that that they wanted to

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Speaker 1: build was made obsolete by changes in other war conditions

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Speaker 1: before it was ever built, so we don't know if

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Speaker 1: it would have worked. But the research on pike crete

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Speaker 1: as a material itself remains very interesting. And so if

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Speaker 1: you haven't listened to that episode, I would recommend you

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Speaker 1: go back and check it out now. I think it

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Speaker 1: was a lot of fun. Yeah, and we also talked

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Speaker 1: a bit about of Thrones in there, if you need

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Speaker 1: a little fantasy to encourage you to check that episode

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Speaker 1: out right. So, the short version is pikerete is a

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Speaker 1: suspension of wood pulp in water ice, and the ideal

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Speaker 1: mixture arrived at by Allied Research with something like eighty

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Speaker 1: six percent watered fourteen percent would pulp, and it had

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Speaker 1: a number of material advantages as a as a building

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Speaker 1: material or structural material. Uh This included that the structural

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Speaker 1: properties of pi crete were less variable and thus more

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Speaker 1: predictable than regular ice, So if you wanted to make

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Speaker 1: a structure out of ice, you could understand what you

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Speaker 1: were working with a lot more predictably with pikerete. But

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Speaker 1: also pikerete melts more slowly than regular ice. It seems

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Speaker 1: like the wood pulp content helps insulate it. So you

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Speaker 1: take the same amount of material of ice versus pikerete,

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Speaker 1: the pikerete melts a lot slower. Also, pike crete is

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Speaker 1: much stronger than regular ice. It can withstand heavier loads

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Speaker 1: and more powerful impacts with less fracture and less plastic deformation.

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Speaker 1: And one of the reasons it's supposed that pike crete

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Speaker 1: is stronger than regular ice is that if a crack

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Speaker 1: forms under pressure or impact, the would pulp fibers prevent

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Speaker 1: the crack from spreading along the full width of the material,

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Speaker 1: so it's just far less susceptible to fracture based failures,

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Speaker 1: It would maybe kind of deform and sag in a

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Speaker 1: plastic way over time, but it's also less susceptible to

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Speaker 1: that than regular ices. But anyway, when we were reading

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Speaker 1: about all this, I immediately thought of a parallel type

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Speaker 1: of material to pike crete, where various fibrous substances are

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Speaker 1: enmeshed in a suspension that is by mass mostly water,

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Speaker 1: and that composite material is our bodies. And I started

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Speaker 1: to wonder, is the principle that makes pike create resistant

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Speaker 1: to fracture the same reason that if you drop a

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Speaker 1: mass of frozen meat on the ground, it doesn't shatter

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Speaker 1: the way a block of ice would. Now we can

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Speaker 1: come back to that, but this immediately got my brain

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Speaker 1: spinning on another question which takes us into some outworld territory. UH. Specifically,

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Speaker 1: this question is if you froze a human body the

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Speaker 1: way sub zero does in Mortal Kombat, or like many

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Speaker 1: other examples we can talk about from from movies and

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Speaker 1: games and stuff in a bit, could you shatter that

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Speaker 1: human body with a slick roundhouse kick or would a

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Speaker 1: frozen human body be resistant to fracture and shattering? And

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Speaker 1: if so, how far would that resistance go. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: actually chatted about this a bit when we recorded the

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Speaker 1: pi crete episode, but then we ended up cutting it

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Speaker 1: for a couple of reasons. First of all, for length um,

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Speaker 1: but then also you wanted to look into it a

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Speaker 1: little bit more as our call. Well. Yeah, one reason

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Speaker 1: I think is that the discussion we actually had about

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Speaker 1: it when we originally recorded the episode was kind of incomplete.

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Speaker 1: Like we talked about how the wood fibers within the

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Speaker 1: pi crete and make it resistant to shattering. How this

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Speaker 1: was probably a reasonable analogy for the frozen flesh of

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Speaker 1: an animal, which is a composite sort of alloy of

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Speaker 1: a different kind with lots of materials in meshed in between. Mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, muscle, fibers, fat, protein, bone, and bone has

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Speaker 1: its own different components. It's got a collagen protein component

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Speaker 1: and a mineral hydroxy appetite component. And anyway, for these reasons,

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Speaker 1: a frozen body might be somewhat similar in its resistance

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Speaker 1: to shattering. And of course I mentioned this a second ago,

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Speaker 1: but there's an experience probably a lot of people can

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Speaker 1: relate to. If you've ever dropped a heavy piece of

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Speaker 1: ice on the ground, you you know it shatters. It's

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Speaker 1: just very brittle. It shatters into a million pieces. But

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Speaker 1: if you drop a similar weight piece of frozen meat

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Speaker 1: from say six feet in the air, I think you're

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Speaker 1: very unlikely to see anything that looks like shattering. It's

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Speaker 1: more likely to kind of bounce a little bit and

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Speaker 1: might get bruised as it does so, but it's not

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Speaker 1: going to shatter like glass. Yeah, And it's it's similar

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Speaker 1: to how the various frozen foods we bring home from

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Speaker 1: the grocery store. Have you ever opened the box and

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Speaker 1: you're like, oh, man, I dropped that frozen pizza and

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Speaker 1: now it's shattered into a million pieces. No, we just

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Speaker 1: don't see that, right. So something about the contents, the

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Speaker 1: material makeup of of meat, of animal flesh, of body

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Speaker 1: parts seems to make it more resistant to fracture than

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Speaker 1: other you know, suspensions in water would be so our

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Speaker 1: initial discussion in that episode we we sort of said,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't think it's very plausible that you

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Speaker 1: could shatter a body. But after we recorded it, I

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Speaker 1: sort of thought some more and I was like, wait

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Speaker 1: a minute, this really should depend on some more conditions

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Speaker 1: that we didn't actually get into, Like, so could you

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Speaker 1: shatter a human body at regular freezer temperatures around zero

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Speaker 1: degrees fahrenheit or negative eight teen celsius. I think on

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Speaker 1: a normal circumstances, the answer to that is just no,

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Speaker 1: probably not so. Initially our answer to this question was

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Speaker 1: that the sub zero scenario where sub zero freezes you

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Speaker 1: with a blast device and then kicks you and you

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Speaker 1: shatter all over the place, that's fairly far fetched. But

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Speaker 1: what we didn't really get into in our original conversation

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Speaker 1: was how far this shatter resistance extends. What if you

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Speaker 1: get the body really really cold, deep into the sub

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Speaker 1: zero wild, then I think the question becomes more interesting. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and and also if we're going to talk about sub zero,

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Speaker 1: I mean sub zero is is not just a guy

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Speaker 1: throwing around some liquid nitrogen. He is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: a a Linn cou grand Master. You know. He's a magician,

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Speaker 1: a sorcerer who's using frost magic and martial arts to

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Speaker 1: battle various gods and cyborgs and other worldly monsters. So

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Speaker 1: before we we we get back into the science, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk just a little bit about this obsession

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Speaker 1: that emerges um. I think largely uh post nine uh

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Speaker 1: that this idea of bad guys and sometimes good guys

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Speaker 1: being frozen, partially frozen, and then partially or entirely shattered,

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Speaker 1: as if they were a piece of porcelain. Now, why

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Speaker 1: would you trace it to n Well, here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: and and I'm not entirely it's entirely possible that there's

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Speaker 1: some of some work prior tonight that features both the

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Speaker 1: freezing and shattering of an adversary. Certainly you have examples

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Speaker 1: of things being frozen, enemies being frozen. The classic uh

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Speaker 1: the Blob comes to mind, right where they the creatures

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Speaker 1: defeated with the cold. But in terms of of something

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Speaker 1: being frozen and shattering is key because that's when James

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Speaker 1: Cameron's Terminator two came out. Yes, and I always forget

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Speaker 1: how early in the nineties it actually came out. It

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Speaker 1: always catches me off guard that it was ninety one,

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Speaker 1: which is, you know, basically the eighties. Oh No, one

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Speaker 1: was still the eighties. As we've discussed Cannon on this show,

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Speaker 1: is that the nineteen eighties ended in ninet. In fact,

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Speaker 1: that the most eighties year there ever was the like

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Speaker 1: most iconic when we think of everything that is the

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Speaker 1: eighties was the year nineteen nine. Yeah, I mean is

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Speaker 1: the culmination of it. Right. So Terminator two, of course

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Speaker 1: iconic sci fi action blockbuster, famous for a number of reasons,

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Speaker 1: but it also featured some incredible effects, incredible digital effects

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Speaker 1: that just you know, changed what we expected in films.

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Speaker 1: And there were, you know, so many copycats that that

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Speaker 1: came along afterwards. Uh, some better than others. But there's

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Speaker 1: this one sequence in particular where Arnold Schwarzenegger's T eight

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Speaker 1: hundred Terminator freezes or incident accidentally freezes um the liquid

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Speaker 1: metal T one thousand terminator played by Robert Patrick with

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Speaker 1: liquid nitrogen. It's like a factory setting for their fight

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Speaker 1: and an environmental um um you know, hazard of that

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Speaker 1: fight is a frozen T one thousand. Uh. So Arnold

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Speaker 1: lifts up his shotgun I believe, uh, fires a one

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Speaker 1: line a w liner at him as well as a

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Speaker 1: shotgun shell or a slug or something, and it just explodes,

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Speaker 1: just just causes the the T one thousand, the frozen

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Speaker 1: T one thousand, to explode into hundreds and hundreds of

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Speaker 1: shards of of this froze now frozen liquid metal, which

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Speaker 1: of course then begins to slowly melt and then reform

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Speaker 1: into the T one thousand once more. As I remember it,

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Speaker 1: he shoots him with a pistol. But I could be

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Speaker 1: a pistol. Okay, that's my memory. I could be wrong.

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Speaker 1: But also this is definitely when he he uses the

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Speaker 1: phrase he's learned as still a Vista baby, showing that

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Speaker 1: he has learned humanity from Edward Furlong. That's right, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I was reading about this film um Again,

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Speaker 1: It's been a very long tent since I've seen it,

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Speaker 1: but there's this weird deleted scene that lines up with

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Speaker 1: the whole topic of demonic duck feet on succuby that

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Speaker 1: we've discussed in the past on the show. This idea

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Speaker 1: in medieval and post medieval um Catholic and Protestant culture,

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Speaker 1: the idea that you would have these demons that would

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Speaker 1: disguise themselves as attractive members of the say, the opposite sex,

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Speaker 1: that would then try and seduce you into sin. But God,

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Speaker 1: taking pity on the pious uh man or woman, would

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Speaker 1: and would make sure that the disguise was imperfect. While

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Speaker 1: this demon might take the form of a beautiful woman,

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Speaker 1: it wouldn't be able to get the feet right. The

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Speaker 1: feet would be duck feet, like demonic duck feet. Um,

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Speaker 1: so there's a way out for the for the pious, right,

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Speaker 1: So if you're very observant, if you keep your wits

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Speaker 1: about you, then you would never fall for one of

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Speaker 1: these like a succubus, because you notice us you've got

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Speaker 1: bird feet. So yeah, according to the Internet Movie Database,

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Speaker 1: there's a there is a sequence in the Steel Mill

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Speaker 1: where the T one thousand um is it's been previously

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Speaker 1: frozen and then of course exploded, and then it's come

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Speaker 1: back together and not everything's working properly. It's having difficulty

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Speaker 1: maintaining its shape and color, like when it touches other materials.

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Speaker 1: And there's a scene where it's trying to pretend to

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Speaker 1: be Sarah Connor um and and then John Connor looks

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Speaker 1: down and sees, oh, it's not Sarah Connor because it

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Speaker 1: has grotesque liquid metal feet instead of instead of human feet,

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Speaker 1: right the feet, its feet are becoming the same texture

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Speaker 1: as the floor that it's walking on, which is a

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Speaker 1: cool detail. It is, Yeah, but it but it made

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Speaker 1: me think back to that the idea that the the

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Speaker 1: the otherworldly alien pretender, uh can't quite get the feet

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Speaker 1: right on its disguise. Okay, so you think that it's

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Speaker 1: probably the scene in Terminator to where the T one

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Speaker 1: thousand gets shattered that spawns these many copycats that come

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Speaker 1: afterwards and video games movies where everybody is getting frozen

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Speaker 1: and shattered into a million pieces. Right, like to take

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Speaker 1: take sub Zero for instance. Okay, a character in the

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Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat video game. Now, Mortal Kombat, the original arcade

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Speaker 1: game came out in nine two, which is really too

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Speaker 1: close to ninety one for it to reflect that Terminator

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Speaker 1: to death or explosion scene to any significant degree. And

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Speaker 1: perhaps due to that overlap, you don't see any shattering

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Speaker 1: action uh in the game really? Uh? Sub Zero can

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Speaker 1: freeze people and then he can, you know, uppercut the

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Speaker 1: frozen person in some ice goes flying, some blood goes flying,

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Speaker 1: but nobody has shattered. Sub Zero's original fatality in that

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Speaker 1: game is a blatant predator homage rather in which he

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Speaker 1: rips the opponent's spine out of their body. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: it was a movie rip off, even an Arnold movie

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Speaker 1: rip off, but a different one, right. But then uh,

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Speaker 1: three the following year, we see the ports of this

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Speaker 1: game make it out to the different home systems, and

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Speaker 1: this was too violent for Nintendo. Famously, Supernintendo changed the

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Speaker 1: blood into sweat and and they toned down some of

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Speaker 1: the fatalities. But they did one really cool thing is

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Speaker 1: they completely replaced sub Zero's fatality with one in which

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Speaker 1: first he freezes the opponent and then he like backhands

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Speaker 1: them and shatters them into a million pieces. Well, that

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Speaker 1: sounds like one of the few upgrades for the Supernintendo version,

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Speaker 1: which I had as a child, and like, it was

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Speaker 1: very odd seeing the the quote blood coming off people.

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Speaker 1: That was not blood. It was just some weird kind

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Speaker 1: of gray tan colored liquid flying on every time you

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Speaker 1: punch somebody. Yeah, I had the I had the Genesis

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Speaker 1: version of the game. Uh so I had had the blood,

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Speaker 1: but I remember being a little jealous of that frozen

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Speaker 1: fatality that sub Zero had. Now it's definitely in the

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Speaker 1: Mortal Kombat movie, which, dude, if you have not gone

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Speaker 1: back and watched that masterpiece recently, I recommended it. It

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Speaker 1: uh really really holds up in the worst possible way.

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Speaker 1: It's one of those movies with early c g I

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Speaker 1: where all of the marketing for it bragged about the

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Speaker 1: c g I, except like I remember the VHS box

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Speaker 1: said strap yourself in for these amazing morphin sequences. But

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Speaker 1: then if you look at it now and it's like,

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Speaker 1: you know, everything has about four corners and it's just

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Speaker 1: assaulting your eyes with poison. Oh yeah, well this is yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is so plenty of time to to to really

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Speaker 1: go after that terminator to uh style and try and

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Speaker 1: use some of that technology. Paul ws Anderson was the director,

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Speaker 1: and uh, you know, as weird as some of the

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Speaker 1: c g I is compared to today, I have to

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Speaker 1: say the Goro puppet was really cool. They had some

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Speaker 1: nice practical effects mixed up in there as well. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'll give him that, but that's we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: Goro today. Goro when we will come back to another time.

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Speaker 1: But we're talking about sub Zero and that scene does

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Speaker 1: feature some great free shatter action. I think the moment

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Speaker 1: that actually made it into the trailer as sub Zero

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Speaker 1: is fighting some red shirt like he's he's literally fighting

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Speaker 1: a ninja that's wearing red um and it's not Irmac

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Speaker 1: or anything, it's just straight up red red shirt ninja.

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Speaker 1: He's wearing a sign that says I am here to die. Yeah. Basically,

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Speaker 1: you know what he's there for he's a demo Ninja.

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Speaker 1: He's here to demonstrate this fatality. So he does a

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Speaker 1: big leaping kick at sub Zero right as sub Zero

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Speaker 1: unleashes all this crazy Um you know I have to say,

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Speaker 1: and this will come into play later. I feel like

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Speaker 1: there's some really cool like atmospheric stuff going on with

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Speaker 1: the effects that sub Zero uses here to to create

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Speaker 1: his ice magic, like he's doing something to the air

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Speaker 1: and perhaps the moisture in the air there and then

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Speaker 1: is that Ninja comes flying across the room. Bam, sub

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Speaker 1: Zero freezes him. Ninja smashes into the wall and just

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Speaker 1: shatters into a million pieces perfection. Yes, um, so we'll

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Speaker 1: we'll keep coming back to sub Zero. But that was

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Speaker 1: was not, by any means the only um copy cat

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Speaker 1: or um or let's say, it wasn't the only film

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Speaker 1: inspired by this kind of freeze and shattered death sequence.

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Speaker 1: You of course had time cop into. Directed by Peter Hyams,

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Speaker 1: who also directed two thousand ten and Outland, which is

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Speaker 1: a kind of a a sleazy, not really sleazy, maybe

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Speaker 1: kind of intentionally seedy sci fi film starring Sean Connery.

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Speaker 1: Is that the one that's supposed to be high noon

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Speaker 1: in space. Yeah, it's straight it's a straight up Western

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Speaker 1: really with Peter Boyle. I think it's the bad guy.

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Speaker 1: It's ah. I remember digging it when I was younger.

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Speaker 1: But that's another one I haven't seen in Forever. Time Cop, however,

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Speaker 1: features a time traveling time cop as you would expect,

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Speaker 1: played by Jean Claude that damn and a great villain roll,

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Speaker 1: really a dual villain role, because he plays himself as

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Speaker 1: like is the present version of himself and a path

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Speaker 1: version of himself played by the late Ron Silver. And

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Speaker 1: there's one scene in particular where a hinchman gets his

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Speaker 1: arm frozen again by liquid nitrogen that just happens to

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Speaker 1: be there in the space where people are fighting, and

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Speaker 1: then Jean Klon van Damme kicks that frozen arm and

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Speaker 1: shatters it. There's actually, uh just involving an arm. I

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Speaker 1: remember there's a scene in the older version the movie

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Speaker 1: adaptation of Snow Piercer where a character is punished by

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Speaker 1: having their arms stuck outside into the cold, and then

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Speaker 1: it gets pulled back in and it's frozen solid and

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Speaker 1: they smash it. Oh, that's a good one. That's a good.

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Speaker 1: More more recent example of the frozen shatter death or

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Speaker 1: torment sequence. Another big one from ninety three is Demolition Man.

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Speaker 1: It's Stallone versus Wesley Snipes, and Stallone eventually freezes Snipes

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Speaker 1: and kicks his head off, which then chatters, Am I

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Speaker 1: the only person who saw the fur staff of this

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Speaker 1: movie about five times and never saw the end? Oh no,

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Speaker 1: I don't think I even saw that much. Is one

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Speaker 1: that they were showing on like Sci Fi Channel or something,

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Speaker 1: A lot of it. I guess it must have been.

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Speaker 1: I just remember like seeing over and over again the

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Speaker 1: scenes about like introducing the premise that the problem with

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Speaker 1: the future is that the cops are not violent enough.

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Speaker 1: Maybe from my from my part anyway, I think maybe

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Speaker 1: it was prominently featured in the trailer. And since I

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Speaker 1: never saw the film and only the trailer, that's all

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Speaker 1: I know about it. I know like the basic premise

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Speaker 1: and have sort of a general idea about the look

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Speaker 1: of this future. Yeah. Well, I think it posits that

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Speaker 1: the whole future is the galleria. It's just the whole

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Speaker 1: future is like a shopping mall from the nineties. All right,

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Speaker 1: let's see a few other quick examples. UM saw both

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Speaker 1: of the film Cube utilize a freezing trap in there

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Speaker 1: um film Alien Resurrection. Uh, there's a sequence where this

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Speaker 1: happens to a xenomorph that like escapes and there's a

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Speaker 1: freezing trap and it matters itself. And then there's one

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Speaker 1: from two thousand four that I don't think i'd ever

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Speaker 1: heard of, titled mind Hunters, not to be confused with

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Speaker 1: a recent television series that's that's actually, you know, quite

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Speaker 1: quite good. Uh No, this is a different beast entirely.

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Speaker 1: And there's a crazy sequence that you can find on

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Speaker 1: YouTube in which a trap, again some sort of liquid

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Speaker 1: nitrogen powered trap, freezes Christian Slater's characters ankles and then

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Speaker 1: causes him to snap off of the ankles fall over backwards.

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Speaker 1: And then I guess he's still freezing as he falls over,

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Speaker 1: because then he like grotesquely shatters when he hits the ground.

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Speaker 1: That's rough, man. Now, the one that I I can't

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Speaker 1: get out of my head is Jason X, which I

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Speaker 1: know is one of your favorites. Oh yes, Uh, this

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Speaker 1: is probably my favorite Friday thirteenth movie because of course

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Speaker 1: Jason X takes place in outer space and there's a

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Speaker 1: scene there multiple that has a lot of great kills

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Speaker 1: in it um let of creative kills, Uh, including one

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Speaker 1: scene in which uh cyber Jason at the point I

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Speaker 1: think he's Cyberjason. At this point, Um dunks a person's

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Speaker 1: face into like a tray or a uh that of

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Speaker 1: liquid nitrogen and then shatters their face by smacking it

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Speaker 1: into a tabletop. So clearly in the nineties everybody got

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Speaker 1: the bug. The filmmakers saw it, saw something. They were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: shattering people, and they were just on the train. They

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Speaker 1: were ready. Yeah, I think you know, it's it's new.

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Speaker 1: It's an early death scene to include in your your

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Speaker 1: violent nineties picture. But then also I have this feeling

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Speaker 1: that this, this this trope is popular because it also

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Speaker 1: drives home this this idea about the exaggerated fragility of

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Speaker 1: the human body. You know, we we see this in

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Speaker 1: various Turn to Stone tropes. We see it, you know,

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Speaker 1: quite um, you know, quite tragically. I think we've discussed

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Speaker 1: in the past on the show of Um delusions in

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Speaker 1: which one believes their body to be essentially be made

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Speaker 1: of glass and be so fragile that they don't dare

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Speaker 1: touch anything. And then you see like the opposite of

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Speaker 1: it in some action films especially. I think the the

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Speaker 1: ultimate ex dream of this is the Hong Kong action

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Speaker 1: film Ricky Oh, The Story of Ricky, in which our hero,

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Speaker 1: like a lot of heroes in these films, it's pretty

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Speaker 1: much indestructible. But to just an alarming degree, nothing seems

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Speaker 1: to hurt him, and when he hurts anyone else, when

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Speaker 1: he fights back against bad guys, it seems like that

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Speaker 1: the slightest touch just makes them explode like a bag

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Speaker 1: of blood. They're just everyone else is just so fragile. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: everybody else is just vegetable soup. I mean, I seem

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Speaker 1: to recall a scene where two characters punch at each

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Speaker 1: other and their fists hit and Ricky splits the other

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Speaker 1: guy's arm down the middle lengthwise like a Mattock splitting

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Speaker 1: a log. Yeah. Yeah, basically the human body is just

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Speaker 1: made out of balsa wood in according to that film. Well,

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Speaker 1: maybe we should take a break and then when we

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Speaker 1: come back we can talk about the the actual relationship

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Speaker 1: between temperature and brittleness. Than all right, we're back now

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Speaker 1: today again, we're a looking at this question of could

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Speaker 1: you could you freeze somebody and shatter them like sub zero?

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Speaker 1: There are some complications to this question. Obviously, this is

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Speaker 1: not an experiment you could perform ethically on a real person, right,

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Speaker 1: but you know, you can seek out some analogies. There's

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Speaker 1: another reason that this question is a little bit hard

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Speaker 1: to answer if you're just trying to reason from general

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Speaker 1: knowledge on materials and mechanics and heat. And that's of

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Speaker 1: course that the body is a complex matrix of different

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Speaker 1: kinds of materials all stuck together. So you can look up, say,

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Speaker 1: existing published knowledge on the temperatures where brittle fracture is

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Speaker 1: more likely to happen in materials like common industrial plastics

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Speaker 1: or types of steel. But I have not found a

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Speaker 1: similar chart for animal bodies, and I doubt that there

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Speaker 1: would be such a thing, because who would do that research.

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Speaker 1: Maybe you do that research. If you do, let us know.

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Speaker 1: But in general, there is actually a documented relationship between

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Speaker 1: temperature and brittleness in many material reals. And this relationship

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Speaker 1: does extend well beyond the simple transition of water from

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Speaker 1: its liquid to frozen states. So it's not just the

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Speaker 1: freezing of liquids into solids. Even once you have you know,

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Speaker 1: already frozen things as they get colder, or things without

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Speaker 1: water content as they get colder very often, in fact,

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Speaker 1: almost always, they tend to get more and more brittle.

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Speaker 1: So just one example of this, I was looking at

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Speaker 1: a short, well presented article on on m T. S

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Speaker 1: website m I T. S ask An Engineer where they

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Speaker 1: were addressing the question of why plastics get brittle when

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Speaker 1: they get cold. It was by Peter Dunn and it

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Speaker 1: was interviewing Greg Rutledge from m T. S Department of

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Speaker 1: Chemical Engineering, and so they were looking at the concepts

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Speaker 1: of ductility and brittleness. Now, ductility is the ability of

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Speaker 1: a material to absorb stress by changing shape without breaking.

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Speaker 1: Brittle materials react to stress put on them by fracturing

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Speaker 1: and shattering, and plastics are mostly considered to be ductal

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Speaker 1: because of the behavior of molecules down at the molecular level.

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Speaker 1: Often these molecules themselves can stretch, absorbing energy in the process.

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Speaker 1: But when you add all this together, these molecules can

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Speaker 1: each absorb energy by stretching, and they can dissipate stress

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Speaker 1: from loads or impacts, and this ability to dissipate stress

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Speaker 1: helps prevent fracture. But this depends on the somewhat free

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Speaker 1: motion of individual molecules. So if you were able to

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Speaker 1: zoom all the way down to the molecular level of

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Speaker 1: the material. For a material to be ductal, what you

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Speaker 1: would want to see is the ability of molecules to

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Speaker 1: slide past or through one another. Uh. And the analogy

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Speaker 1: that Rutledge uses here is like spaghetti coated with olive oil. Right,

428
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 1: you cook a bunch of spaghetti and it does not

429
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,800
Speaker 1: have any oil on it. Obviously, what's it gonna do.

430
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:54,760
Speaker 1: It's kind of stick together in a big clump. You

431
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 1: try to stir it up and it does not stir easily.

432
00:23:57,840 --> 00:23:59,679
Speaker 1: But if you put olive oil on it, suddenly all

433
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: the new goals. They can kind of slide around. So

434
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 1: in a material, especially like a plastic, if the molecules

435
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,000
Speaker 1: in the material behave this way where they all kind

436
00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,320
Speaker 1: of stick together in a rigid structure and they can't stretch,

437
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:15,480
Speaker 1: and they can't slip easily pasted or through one another.

438
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:19,320
Speaker 1: When stress is applied at a particular place, the energy

439
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,160
Speaker 1: from that stress can't be dissipated by spreading all across

440
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,879
Speaker 1: the material. So if the stress is too great and

441
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 1: the energy can't be dissipated, it'll start to create a

442
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: crack and then a full fracture. Now, where does temperature

443
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: come in here, Well, there's something that is known as

444
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: the glass transition temperature, which they point out is the

445
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: point where you have an amorphous solid. And this could

446
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 1: be like a glass or it could be rubber. They

447
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:47,119
Speaker 1: also give the example of cotton candy. It's at the

448
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: point where that goes from being ductal, like we were

449
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:53,320
Speaker 1: just talking about two, being brittle, where it's susceptible to cracks,

450
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: and so each material has its own temperature where that

451
00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:02,159
Speaker 1: transition happens. Usually, the temperature for most materials that we

452
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: deal with on the day to day is either very

453
00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: high or very low. So you're not going to really

454
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 1: observe things going through this transition temperature if you're just

455
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 1: doing every day you know, uh, stuff like you're dealing

456
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,920
Speaker 1: with a piece of rubber. Normally the stuff you would

457
00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,240
Speaker 1: do with it does not take it to its glass

458
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: transition temperature. So, for example, in the case of tire rubber,

459
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: they say that the glass transition temperature is negative seventy

460
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: two degrees celsius. You're not usually getting down that far,

461
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: so you're not getting to the point where you observe

462
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 1: vulcanized rubber becoming brittle, So we're not used to it,

463
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 1: but it is a totally real part of physics, and

464
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,679
Speaker 1: it all depends on the materials. Some amorphous solids can

465
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,280
Speaker 1: become brittle at much more manageable temperatures. The article gives

466
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: the example of polypropylene, which they say as a glass

467
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: transition temperature of somewhere between negative twenty and zero degrees celsius.

468
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 1: And so that's within you know, temperatures you might encounter

469
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: out on a cold winter day or even in your

470
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,360
Speaker 1: own freezer. And I have noticed this person only when

471
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 1: taking plastic food containers out of the freezer. If sometimes

472
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: if you drop them or knock them against something, they

473
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: seem much more prone to cracking or shattering than they

474
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,080
Speaker 1: than they aren't room temperature. And I have not noticed

475
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,320
Speaker 1: a similar difference for glass. But I was looking around

476
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: at some other articles, and yeah, it just seems that

477
00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,080
Speaker 1: for all kinds of materials. Maybe there are a few exceptions,

478
00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: but for almost anything, if you cool it down really

479
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: really cold, it starts getting into territory where it becomes

480
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,200
Speaker 1: more brittle. Like there's this term that's often talked about

481
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 1: with reference to metals, which is the ductile to brittle transition.

482
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: Uh so, so steel is an example here that undergoes

483
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 1: a ductile to brittle transition. Some compositions of steel, unfortunately

484
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: have ductile to brittle transition temperatures that are within the

485
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: range of natural fluctuation. So some steel structures can actually

486
00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:57,480
Speaker 1: become brittle enough to fail by cracking instead of absorbing

487
00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 1: stress by deforming and reforming under like real world conditions

488
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: like winter conditions. Yeah, there's there's this case of the

489
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: Liberty class cargo ships during the Second World War. This

490
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:14,200
Speaker 1: was a British concept kind of concept constructed by the

491
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: US at a low cost for you know, basically a

492
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: mass produced cargo option for the war. So they ended

493
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: up building thousands of these things. But unfortunately, the metal

494
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: of their their holes was observed to fail after exposure

495
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,119
Speaker 1: to frigid North Atlantic waters, frigid enough to make the

496
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: steel itself brittle. And this was this is due to

497
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,160
Speaker 1: some of the issues were discussing already, but also part

498
00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,679
Speaker 1: of it apparently had to do with the fact that

499
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: the holes were welded as opposed to riveted together from

500
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: separate plates. And this was also compounded by just frequent

501
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: overloading of the vessels themselves. Uh so so Yeah, another

502
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: example of what can happen when you take UM UH

503
00:27:56,040 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: to take a ship that is not specifically designed to

504
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: maybe throw even like really frigid waters and put them there. Yeah.

505
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 1: And essentially every source I looked at UH seemed in

506
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:10,280
Speaker 1: agreement that this this holds true for almost any material

507
00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: that what we've been mainly talking about, because most of

508
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: the research seems to be in UH in plastics and metals,

509
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, things that stuff like glass, things that you

510
00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: would expect to be researched because they are industrial materials.

511
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 1: But it would also hold true to some extent for

512
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: other types of composite materials, things that have mineral content,

513
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,840
Speaker 1: things that have proteins in them, and this would probably

514
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: include bodies. So at lower and lower temperatures, the ability

515
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 1: of material to shift and reform at the molecular level

516
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: continually decreases. The links between molecules become more and more

517
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 1: prone to tiny initial defects spreading into full scale fractures

518
00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 1: in their crystal in structure. And if you add a

519
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,440
Speaker 1: lot of these fractures at the same time, basically you

520
00:28:55,480 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: get shattering. So I'm increasingly convinced now that Actually, I

521
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: think if you've got a body or or a piece

522
00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: of a human body cold enough, you very well could

523
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 1: shatter it. So the question at this point would be

524
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 1: what is the level? How cold would it have to get?

525
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: You know, what is the level? Because is it coldness

526
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: that could actually be achieved in reality? And again I think,

527
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: just based on what I've been reading, the answer there

528
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: is probably yes, and you could. It's at temperatures that

529
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:27,719
Speaker 1: you could actually achieve given something like liquid nitrogen. You know,

530
00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 1: the more we talk about this, I would love to

531
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: see a scene in like a kung fu action film

532
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: where the villain and the hero are about to square

533
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: off and then they both notice that there's a tank

534
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 1: of liquid nitrogen behind them, and they're like, whoa, let's

535
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:42,880
Speaker 1: let's go outside. Let's move into a different part of

536
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: the factory, because this is just I don't like where

537
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,000
Speaker 1: this is headed. It's like the Pucci episode where they

538
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: never actually get to the fireworks factory, except this they

539
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: just they never get to the liquid nitrogen. Oh man,

540
00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: there has to be a liquid nitrogen sequence in Itchy

541
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: and Scratchy. Oh sure there is, but because they always

542
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: flip it around on you, it wouldn't be a straightforward

543
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,360
Speaker 1: chattering what would it be. It would be something more interesting. Oh,

544
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 1: probably made into ice and then ground up into ice

545
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,520
Speaker 1: cubes that are somehow still alive in the cocktail that

546
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: the mouse is drinking. You're joking, but they literally did that.

547
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 1: That's why I did that. Okay, that's what That's why

548
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: it comes to me because it's stuck in my mind somewhere. Yeah,

549
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: the the eyeball ice cubes become ice cubes in a drink.

550
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,840
Speaker 1: There you go. So, liquid nitrogen is a convenient place

551
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:32,160
Speaker 1: to investigate this or I guess it's not a place

552
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 1: a convenient substance with which to investigate this question, because

553
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: it's something you can actually get huge tubs of and

554
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:42,520
Speaker 1: in its liquid state, liquid nitrogen is somewhere between sixty

555
00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: three and seventy seven kelvin or so, which is like

556
00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: negative two and ten celsius two d ninety six celsius

557
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: or negative three forty six fahrenheight to three twenty fahrenheits

558
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:54,640
Speaker 1: sorry for all the numbers, but just wanted to give

559
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: you an idea. It's very very cold. It tends you know,

560
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: it's boiling at room temperature. If you have a bucket

561
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 1: of liquid nitrogen at room temperature. It's kind of like

562
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,640
Speaker 1: if you put you know, a pan of water and

563
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 1: like a six hundred degree oven or something, it's gonna

564
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: be it's gonna be bubbling. It's it's it's aggressive stuff

565
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: because it wants to convert back into the gas. That's

566
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: the same gas that's in the air we breathe. It

567
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: is more than the air we breathe. So so this

568
00:31:18,320 --> 00:31:21,760
Speaker 1: is very very cold. If you could submerge a person

569
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: in liquid nitrogen long enough to actually freeze them all

570
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: the way through, I'm starting to get the feeling that

571
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: some kind of shattering, maybe not you know, a billion

572
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: pieces glass type shattering, but some significant, you know, chunking

573
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: off of of brittle shards would actually happen. But anyway,

574
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:43,960
Speaker 1: this is all just theoretical reasoning based on other things

575
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: we know about materials. Uh So, so maybe talk is cheap,

576
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 1: Maybe we should look for physical evidence that this has

577
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,280
Speaker 1: actually happened in the real world. Yeah, and luckily there

578
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: have been people that have experimented with this that have said,

579
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: you know what I'm going to get I think of

580
00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: of with nitrogen, and I'm going to get something that

581
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 1: could stand in for a human head, and we're going

582
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: to see what what happens. Yeah. So, but before we

583
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: get to direct empirical research, At first I wanted to say, Okay,

584
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: is there anything documented in nature? Right? I combed through

585
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,160
Speaker 1: a big newspaper database, trying a bunch of different combinations

586
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,120
Speaker 1: of search terms to find any evidence I could of

587
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: a documented case of a frozen body being shattered. I

588
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,880
Speaker 1: found nothing. I found tons of stuff, but nothing like

589
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,080
Speaker 1: what we were actually looking for. I found lots of

590
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,520
Speaker 1: reviews of movies and TV shows like that one with Christians.

591
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: Later you mentioned a bunch of articles about that. I

592
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,360
Speaker 1: found a lot of old crime reports involving frozen bodies

593
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,600
Speaker 1: and people named shafter. I found a lot of stuff

594
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: about frozen seafood and a kind of packaging called a

595
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:52,400
Speaker 1: shatter pack, which I think is terrible name for a

596
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: type of packaging. But so, if there is any natural,

597
00:32:56,360 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 1: documented case of a human body being frozen and then shattering,

598
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 1: I could not find it. Now, the closest thing I

599
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 1: came across was I did find an old Straight Dope

600
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,240
Speaker 1: column where the author is trying to answer the exact

601
00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:11,080
Speaker 1: same question, can you shatter a body? And finds a

602
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 1: bunch of cases of people being frozen sort of or

603
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 1: exposed to liquid nitrogen in various ways and not shattering,

604
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 1: And the column concludes from this that you probably would

605
00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,200
Speaker 1: not shatter if you were frozen. But I don't think

606
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 1: any of the cases that the column looks at really

607
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 1: count because it's stuff like somebody gets uh, somebody gets

608
00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 1: liquid nitrogen spilled on them, which you know. In fact,

609
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:39,760
Speaker 1: one thing that's it seems to be true is that

610
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 1: you can probably say that, I mean, don't try this

611
00:33:42,280 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: at home, but you can probably safely get a little

612
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: bit of liquid nitrogen uh splashed against your skin and

613
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: you'd be okay because the light and frost effect immediately

614
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,360
Speaker 1: turns it into two gas that insulates your skin from

615
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 1: the freezing cold liquid itself. Now, if you were like

616
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: to dip your hand in it or can have continued exposure,

617
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,600
Speaker 1: obviously that would be extremely bad. There was one case

618
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: documented in the Straight Dope column of a person who

619
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:10,960
Speaker 1: apparently dipped their foot in a container of liquid nitrogen

620
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 1: and kept it there. It's not not quite clear why

621
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 1: this happened, but there was no documentation of that person's

622
00:34:17,200 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: foot shattering, though obviously it was massively traumatic to the body, like,

623
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:25,600
Speaker 1: so don't do that at all, So that column concludes. Quote,

624
00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,920
Speaker 1: judging from the above, I'm guessing fibrous tissue would prevent

625
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,920
Speaker 1: a body from simply shattering no matter what happened. But

626
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: then again, okay, so so you could take that and say, okay,

627
00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: that sort of holds up with you know, if you

628
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: drop a piece of frozen meat from the freezer, it

629
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: doesn't shatter, So maybe it just wouldn't happen to a body.

630
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 1: But I want to come back with a few empirical,

631
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,080
Speaker 1: controlled examples that we can talk about now. I have

632
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: not found any controlled studies published in actual scientific journals

633
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: about shattering frozen animals or animal parts. Maybe there's something

634
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 1: I haven't dug up yet, but I don't think it's

635
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 1: out there. But I've come up with a number of

636
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:06,240
Speaker 1: informal tests that have been published just some other people's articles,

637
00:35:06,239 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: podcast videos, YouTube and stuff. For example, the Naked Scientists

638
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: one time they explored this on their podcast in an

639
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 1: episode from Actually it was an episode that featured recent

640
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 1: show guest Cat Arnie. They didn't freezer, I hope, no. No. Unfortunately,

641
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: Cat was not involved in this particular experiment. It was

642
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 1: a couple of the other hosts, but but a couple

643
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: of the other hosts didn't an empirical experiment. They explained

644
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,839
Speaker 1: as follows. You get some chicken pieces turkey drumstick, you

645
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: freeze them with liquid nitrogen and then attempt to smash

646
00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: them with a hammer. So they pour liquid nitrogen all

647
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,360
Speaker 1: over meat inside a bucket, and after being submerged in

648
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:49,719
Speaker 1: the liquid nitrogen for a while, the experimenters believes they've

649
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: gotten the flesh down to almost negative two hundred degrees

650
00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: celsius around negative three forty fahrenheit. And at this temperature, uh, First,

651
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: they experiment with just kind of like hanging the frozen

652
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:04,319
Speaker 1: meat against a wood block with the hand or dropping it,

653
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:06,840
Speaker 1: and this doesn't seem to do much of anything interesting.

654
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 1: But then what happens if more forces applied? But if

655
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,799
Speaker 1: you you know, hit it harder. This appears to be

656
00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:16,120
Speaker 1: the key. When they hit the nitrogen frozen meat with

657
00:36:16,120 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 1: a hammer, it does, in fact shatter. It splits off

658
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,399
Speaker 1: into many small brittle shards like ice or glass. They

659
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: say it's a thousand bits of chicken. Oh man, well,

660
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: that that sounds like the super a s sub zero

661
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,400
Speaker 1: fatality right there. Yeah, and so the host concludes, quote,

662
00:36:32,440 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: it does work, but it's an awful lot tougher than

663
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: you might expect. So if you just fell over, you

664
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 1: wouldn't shatter into a thousand pieces. You might crack a bit.

665
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 1: And I think that they are based on everything I've read,

666
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: I think they're basically on the money. That brittle shattering

667
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: of flesh is quite possible, but it requires a very

668
00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:56,239
Speaker 1: very cold piece of meat down to like liquid nitrogen

669
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 1: level temperatures, and it requires a very very heavy impact act. Well,

670
00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: everything's coming up set zero in this one, because he

671
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,839
Speaker 1: has otherworldly ice magic okay, surely capable of reaching those

672
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,800
Speaker 1: low temperatures, and is a skilled martial artists who knows

673
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: just just where to hit you and how hard to

674
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: create this death art that he calls the fatality. So

675
00:37:18,760 --> 00:37:21,520
Speaker 1: uh so. And also, if you want to investigate this

676
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: for yourself, fortunately, in this age of widely distributed video content,

677
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of video too. You can see it

678
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: for yourself, assuming there's no video trickery involved. I think

679
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 1: given the amount of content I've seen like this, that's

680
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:38,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's probably not all explained by video trickery.

681
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: So there are tons of videos of people deep freezing

682
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: various meats, animal bones, model bodies, and other fleshy objects

683
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 1: with liquid nitrogen and then shattering them. You know, the

684
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: internet will provide um. So just mentioning a couple of

685
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 1: examples I found. One of these was a video from

686
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:59,759
Speaker 1: a cooking channel called chefs Steps that was attempting to

687
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: cut through a cow femur with a heavy cleaver and

688
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:07,000
Speaker 1: with the femur unfrozen. It takes a bunch of heavy

689
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:09,920
Speaker 1: strokes and like swinging it like an axe. I think

690
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:12,759
Speaker 1: it took at least a half dozen strokes. But when

691
00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: a cow feemur is frozen and liquid nitrogen, it seems

692
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 1: to kind of explode in a shower of brittle pieces

693
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:23,760
Speaker 1: after one hit with the same clever, and you might think, wow,

694
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,680
Speaker 1: even even a cow femur. I mean, that's a really,

695
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,359
Speaker 1: really thick bone. But to comment on this, you know,

696
00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:34,440
Speaker 1: you might sometimes think of bones as something that is

697
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: naturally brittle to begin with, right, it's kind of like

698
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 1: a rock, But bones are actually excellent naturally designed shock

699
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,000
Speaker 1: absorbers when a normal temperatures. I mean, think about all

700
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: of the stuff you do with your body. That just

701
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 1: doesn't seem quite right. If your bones were actually composed

702
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:56,640
Speaker 1: of say, you know, like rock material of the same

703
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,520
Speaker 1: size and shape as your bones, yeah, they they really

704
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:01,759
Speaker 1: are quite quite durable. I guess part of it is

705
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,440
Speaker 1: we tend to we tend to only notice them, uh

706
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,920
Speaker 1: you know, when they're hurting or broken or bruised. Right,

707
00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: that's when we we we began to realize, oh my bones, right, yeah, yeah, Well,

708
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,200
Speaker 1: you know, a good bone. It's it's like a great

709
00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: film director is the director. You don't notice great bones

710
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,000
Speaker 1: or bones you don't think about because they just do

711
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:22,840
Speaker 1: the job. They're just there for you. And so bones

712
00:39:22,880 --> 00:39:25,799
Speaker 1: are not like rocks. They're they're not composed entirely of

713
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,280
Speaker 1: brittle mineral content. Instead, they're kind of like a natural

714
00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: mesh of one part structural mineral but then softer, more

715
00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: ductile material that can stretch and flex and dissipate mechanical stress.

716
00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: And I think of the things that that help absorb

717
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: and dissipate impact stress on bones. One of them, of course,

718
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:48,800
Speaker 1: is collagen, which is a protein content in the bones.

719
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 1: Is found throughout the hydroxy appetite crystal structure of your bones,

720
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,800
Speaker 1: but on a deeper chemical level. I also came across

721
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: an interesting, relatively recent finding that's about exactly what's going

722
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,880
Speaker 1: on with bones that helps them flex like this. So

723
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: it was paper published in the Proceedings of the National

724
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: Academy of the Sciences inteen by Davies at all I

725
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: think it was a team based primarily out of Cambridge University.

726
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,880
Speaker 1: But the short version is that they discovered that a

727
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:20,080
Speaker 1: major factor helping bones absorb shock without shattering is what

728
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,319
Speaker 1: they call a goog that is trapped in between the

729
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,800
Speaker 1: mineral crystals and our bones. And this goo is actually

730
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:32,479
Speaker 1: made of a viscous solution of water containing citrate, which

731
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 1: is interesting. So citrate is a derivative of citric acid.

732
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: It's a natural byproduct of sell metabolism. But various forms

733
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 1: of citrates have tons of uses in chemistry, Like one

734
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 1: that I think about in in food uses is a

735
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: trisodium citrate. It's one of the sodium salts of citric acid,

736
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: and it has a bunch of uses in foods, for example,

737
00:40:53,719 --> 00:40:57,840
Speaker 1: emulsified cheese sauces. You know, you ever wonder like what

738
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: makes something like Velveta style cheese melts so smoothly instead

739
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,160
Speaker 1: of breaking and getting all greasy. It's because it has

740
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,480
Speaker 1: a citrate based emulsifier in its sodium citrate. Actually, I

741
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: I don't know for sure if Velvita in particular uses

742
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: that one, but I know some like processed melting cheeses do.

743
00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: A good amount of American cheese is going to have

744
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: some kind of emulsifier like that. But anyway, so back

745
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,680
Speaker 1: to bones, Like within our bones, they've they've got this

746
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,880
Speaker 1: fluid citrate that allows molecules to slip and slide past

747
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:32,160
Speaker 1: each other like we were talking about earlier, and this

748
00:41:32,239 --> 00:41:35,160
Speaker 1: makes the bones more ductal and less brittle and able

749
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: to absorb loads and impacts without breaking nearly as easily

750
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,600
Speaker 1: as they would if they were purely rigid mineral structures

751
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,759
Speaker 1: like rocks. And there are other interesting videos you can

752
00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: find too. I found one kind of strange video of

753
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:52,640
Speaker 1: a pig heart submerged in liquid nitrogen, and and it

754
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: was left in there until it was deep frozen, and

755
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 1: then it was shattered by being thrown against the floor.

756
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,880
Speaker 1: Assuming that's real, that seems like pretty good at it.

757
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 1: And I've seen another one where some people deep froze

758
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 1: a sort of simulated model of a frozen human head

759
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: and then they had a boxer smash it with a

760
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: heavy punch. It kind of shattered. The damage was reasonably shattery.

761
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,120
Speaker 1: So I think I've been convinced. I think the answer

762
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 1: is clearly that while animal flesh, including a human body,

763
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 1: is not very likely to shatter at regular freezer temperatures

764
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 1: like zero degrees fahrenheit or or a negative eight teen celsius,

765
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 1: if you get it really really cold in the neighborhood

766
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 1: of liquid nitrogen temperatures and then you hit it with

767
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,719
Speaker 1: a very very heavy impact, shattering becomes a much more

768
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:43,440
Speaker 1: realistic reaction. So anyway, consider me a convert converted to

769
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,879
Speaker 1: the ways of sub zero. All right, on that note,

770
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: we're gonna take one more break. But when we come back, UM,

771
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 1: I have some additional stuff to throw in about this

772
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: idea of shattering ice magic, and uh what else we

773
00:42:55,239 --> 00:42:58,759
Speaker 1: could possibly pull out of the natural world to back

774
00:42:58,840 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: this up? I can't thank Alright, we're back, So Robert

775
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: hit me with some shattering ice magic. All right, I

776
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:14,360
Speaker 1: have kind of a shattering ice magic. Um, uh, buffet

777
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,319
Speaker 1: here a few different offerings here. Uh so, first of all,

778
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 1: there's frost shattering. This is something we mentioned briefly in

779
00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: the pie crete episode. But one way that we we

780
00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:29,520
Speaker 1: naturally see stone shattered via freezing water occurs via frost shattering.

781
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 1: It's a gradual process by which the freezing of water

782
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: in poor spaces and joints in rock leads to fragmentation. Okay,

783
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 1: so this is actually caused by the freezing process itself, right,

784
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,120
Speaker 1: and the of course the expansion of water in little

785
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,319
Speaker 1: cracks and all. Um. You know this this gets down

786
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 1: to like why do we have potholes, right, um, because

787
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,440
Speaker 1: you end up with water. And one of the reasons

788
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:52,320
Speaker 1: that you end up with water getting into little cracks

789
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: in the road, it freezes, it expands, it shatters the

790
00:43:56,480 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: the stone work there, and then it has to be repaired.

791
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: So I don't know how that really helps out sub zero,

792
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: but it's worth mentioning. Well, I mean, I think it

793
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: is worth mentioning that things with water content in them

794
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,359
Speaker 1: undergoes some natural trauma in the freezing process. Like yes,

795
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 1: some some foods that you freeze, um, don't do so

796
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: well when freezing, like you saw them out and eat

797
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,279
Speaker 1: them later. And maybe something about the texture is kind

798
00:44:21,280 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: of wrong. I mean, like freezing can form crystals that

799
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: just harm the cells in the food. Yeah. Now another

800
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: idea that comes to mind. This is more of, I

801
00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 1: guess a munitions based thing to think about. But you

802
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:36,959
Speaker 1: have dry ice bombs, which you absolutely should not try

803
00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: and make. They're illegal in places and dangerous. But a

804
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,040
Speaker 1: simple but dangerous explosive device can be made using dry ice,

805
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,120
Speaker 1: which again dry ice is solid carbon dioxide. Uh and

806
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,400
Speaker 1: and and and basically all this really does is just

807
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 1: shows that, you know, there's a lot of power bound

808
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: up in the manipulation of the phases of matter, especially

809
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: when it comes to the expansion, concract contraction of the

810
00:45:02,000 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: substances in question. Okay, and that's gonna play more into

811
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:10,359
Speaker 1: like my main idea here, and that is Okay, sub

812
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: zero he has this ice magic. He's he's a master

813
00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,680
Speaker 1: of ice. He can make it into weapons, he can

814
00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:17,919
Speaker 1: freeze people as they fly through the air. He can

815
00:45:18,160 --> 00:45:22,720
Speaker 1: do these complex fatalities. But is he only a master

816
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: of ice phase one? Or might he have magical access

817
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: to all seventeen types of crystalline ice and three types

818
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: of amorphosis that we touched on in our previous episode. Okay,

819
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,000
Speaker 1: see the Master of many worlds? Yeah, I mean and

820
00:45:38,080 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 1: that's just known ice. I think they're in total somewhere

821
00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:44,040
Speaker 1: in the neighborhood of three hundred or so theoretical phases

822
00:45:44,080 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 1: of water ice that could be possible. So the question

823
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 1: that one might raise this might there be varieties of

824
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,640
Speaker 1: ice that would prove more advantageous to magical martial arts

825
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,040
Speaker 1: than even typical every day ice, which of course is

826
00:45:57,040 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: pretty powerful. We've already discussed how it can. It seems

827
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: like it is you can. You can certainly like shatter

828
00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: a human head, or given enough time, shatter of the

829
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:09,319
Speaker 1: stone face of a mountain with its power. But I

830
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:11,799
Speaker 1: started looking around about about this, my you know, what

831
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 1: other varieties of ice are out there? For example, UM

832
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 1: One that came to mind was what if sub zero

833
00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,880
Speaker 1: instead of using or just instead of only depending on

834
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: phase one UM ice water, what if Heke was also

835
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,320
Speaker 1: a master of what is referred to as super ionic

836
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 1: ice or ice eighteen. Now, this is one of the

837
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: high pressure ices that can exist in places like the

838
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 1: depths of Urineus and Neptune, and it has been created

839
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 1: in the lab on Earth as well. For instance, in

840
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,440
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, UNI University of Rochester scientist at the Lawrence

841
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:53,440
Speaker 1: Livermore National Laboratory in California used six giant laser beams

842
00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:58,399
Speaker 1: to compress water into this exotic ice form. So this

843
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,960
Speaker 1: is this is really weird stuff. And I have to say,

844
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: when you read about this, it really bucks you know,

845
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:08,279
Speaker 1: the everyday idea of what ice even is. And it

846
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:13,560
Speaker 1: it also makes you realize like the slim pressure and

847
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:18,000
Speaker 1: temperature constraints that make up the human world and ultimately

848
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: are sort of default understanding of reality. Right. So again this,

849
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,799
Speaker 1: this is this weird ice. This ice ay teen um

850
00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: is is is made via extreme pressure. We're talking um

851
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 1: one to four million times the pressure of Earth's atmosphere

852
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:38,040
Speaker 1: and uh and it's it depends on extreme temperatures of

853
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:43,600
Speaker 1: three thousand to five thousand degrees fahrenheit. Yeah, so it

854
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: sounds like ice. I know, it's it's really hot, but

855
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:49,719
Speaker 1: um and it's also it's four times as dense as

856
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 1: as normal ice. Um and it's uh, it's hot and

857
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 1: it's also black. And if you were to take this

858
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 1: ice and suddenly expose it to Earth's surface to air pressure,

859
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:04,799
Speaker 1: it would rapidly decompress. Does that mean explode or do

860
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 1: we not know? Well? I couldn't find a write up

861
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: that that specifically mentioned explosion. But we know that rapid decompression,

862
00:48:14,200 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: can you know, it's the sort of thing that can

863
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:19,360
Speaker 1: produce UH, something that could be described as an explosion.

864
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: So the way I like to imagine it, UH, you

865
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:25,800
Speaker 1: could have sub zero. Feel free um video gamemakers to

866
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: steal this for your next video game. But you can

867
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: have sub zero manipulates the atmosphere around UH. An individual's body,

868
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: then crushes them down to a mass of high pressure,

869
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 1: high temperature black super ionic ice, and then he releases

870
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,080
Speaker 1: this magical pressure that he's built up around it, and

871
00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: then you're crumpled black and frozen. High temperature body would

872
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,560
Speaker 1: then rapidly decompress and just explode all over the screen.

873
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: I'd like it put it in Mortal Kombat seventeen or

874
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: whatever they're on, whichever one's next. Now, a lot of

875
00:48:58,000 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 1: other ice phases are are are certain a higher density

876
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,000
Speaker 1: as well, not necessarily as high density as these, but

877
00:49:04,520 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: you also have some that are lower density. Ice is

878
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 1: as well, both known and theorized, including I think ice

879
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: sixteen as an example of that. But I sixteen wouldn't

880
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:16,839
Speaker 1: really do sub zero much good unless based on the

881
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:18,840
Speaker 1: some of the articles I was looking at, unless he

882
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:21,319
Speaker 1: was looking to harvest gas from the sea floor and

883
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:24,960
Speaker 1: transport it in pipes. That's that's one of the main

884
00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:28,919
Speaker 1: areas where they see uh I sixteen research as having

885
00:49:29,080 --> 00:49:31,960
Speaker 1: a real world benefit. But our universe is home to

886
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 1: forms of ice far colder, such as ice fourteen, which

887
00:49:36,160 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 1: at around which is roughly I think a negative one

888
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: and sixty degrees celsius or negative two hundred and fifty

889
00:49:42,239 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: six degrees fahrenheit. And this is apparently the cod coldest

890
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:50,120
Speaker 1: ice we've yet found in the natural world. And this

891
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 1: too is found on the icy moonsh icy moons, and

892
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,799
Speaker 1: outer planets. So I like the idea of sub zero

893
00:49:56,800 --> 00:49:58,839
Speaker 1: potentially using that as well. The idea of an ice

894
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: sorcerer used ing uh plutonic ice against the occasional literal

895
00:50:03,320 --> 00:50:06,200
Speaker 1: thunder god that he does battle with. That is good, Okay.

896
00:50:06,239 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: So here's what I'm thinking, ice warlock and the external

897
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 1: power that the warlock context to get his to get

898
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:15,959
Speaker 1: his power as a being that lives on Pluto. Yeah,

899
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: some sort of ice god from the outer reaches of

900
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 1: the Solar system. I mean, where else would an ice

901
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:22,879
Speaker 1: god live. I know, we've been saying we're given out

902
00:50:22,920 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: these ideas for free. Maybe we should just t M

903
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 1: stamp everything. We're saying, no, you can't have it. We're

904
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:32,399
Speaker 1: making this game, all right. Well, I have one more

905
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:35,680
Speaker 1: example to discuss here on on the topic of frozen

906
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:39,879
Speaker 1: things and explosions, because there's the matter of the mysterious

907
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,439
Speaker 1: Siberian perma frost craters. To consider craters that, at least

908
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: in some photos especially, I was looking at one from

909
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: Seen that I included for you to hear for you

910
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,640
Speaker 1: to see as well, Joe. It's the crater of what

911
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,680
Speaker 1: has been dubbed Yamal Crater from the Yamal Peninsula peninsula

912
00:50:56,719 --> 00:51:00,279
Speaker 1: in northern Siberia, and it looks hauntingly like a scene

913
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:03,120
Speaker 1: from John Carpenters the thing. Oh yeah, the ice pit

914
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: where the space ship was. Yeah, it's forty Why, that's

915
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty one feet So it's it's pretty big,

916
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 1: and if you're looking at it, you get the impression

917
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,080
Speaker 1: that there's either been some sort of an impact or

918
00:51:14,200 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: there's been an escape, something has been freed from its

919
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: icy prison. And this seems to be exactly the case,

920
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 1: only instead of an ancient alien visitor shape shifting its way,

921
00:51:24,880 --> 00:51:27,359
Speaker 1: you know, out of the ice and then ultimately out

922
00:51:27,360 --> 00:51:31,400
Speaker 1: of the the frigid waste land. Instead, it is methane

923
00:51:31,480 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 1: exploding out of the permafrost buried natural bombs. Yeah, So

924
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: basically think to the frozen wooly mammoth. So the frozen

925
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: permafrost is an ice box storing these exceptional cases of

926
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 1: preserved organic matter. But they're also there's plenty of less

927
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: exciting stuff frozen in there as well. Since it's frozen,

928
00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:56,000
Speaker 1: none of it truly rots, at least not until the

929
00:51:56,000 --> 00:51:59,880
Speaker 1: permafrost heats up due to climate change, and as that happens,

930
00:52:00,160 --> 00:52:05,400
Speaker 1: the rot finally finds these ancient morsels, releasing carbon dioxide, methane,

931
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:09,319
Speaker 1: and nitrous oxide, all greenhouse gases. By the way, now

932
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 1: methane explosions are they're not known to be the cause

933
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:16,600
Speaker 1: of the craters, right, It's just a hypothesized possible explanation.

934
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: That's my understanding of it. I was looking around at

935
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,879
Speaker 1: different articles about it, um because there's other stuff too

936
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:24,680
Speaker 1: that they've looked at. There's something similar seems to have

937
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:26,880
Speaker 1: happened thousands of years ago on the floor of the

938
00:52:26,920 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 1: Arctic Ocean in places where it seems like methane venting

939
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 1: or even explosions may have occurred, resulting in large craters

940
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:39,160
Speaker 1: some three thousand feet wide apparently. Um. But and then

941
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:43,280
Speaker 1: also we're talking about rare occurrences in remote tundra regions.

942
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 1: So the way this would supposedly work as the frost

943
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,840
Speaker 1: would heave up over the course of a year or so. UM.

944
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,160
Speaker 1: But then that's ultimately hard to observe. And I also

945
00:52:54,239 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: don't think there have been any actual explosions witnessed. What

946
00:52:58,239 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: you have. Instead, you'll have some you know, some of

947
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: the people will find this big crater. There'll be some

948
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 1: accounts from locals about some loud noise they heard in

949
00:53:06,560 --> 00:53:10,640
Speaker 1: some cases reports of smoke or flame. But um. But

950
00:53:10,680 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: other than that, like, again, there's no footage of this

951
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: occurring as far as I know. And on top of that,

952
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: these craters then tend to turn into lakes within a

953
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:21,439
Speaker 1: couple of years and are hard to distinguish from other lakes. Uh.

954
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:26,800
Speaker 1: This according to Vigne Clavillain of the Skull Tech Center

955
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 1: for Hydrocarbon Recovery Man, this is one of those things

956
00:53:30,080 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 1: where there's so much that's potentially amazing in the world

957
00:53:33,160 --> 00:53:36,799
Speaker 1: that just nobody's around to see. Yeah, it's uh so,

958
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,160
Speaker 1: as far as I understand, the research is still ongoing

959
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: and the scientists are still looking into this. For instance,

960
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: researchers are still debating whether permafrost melting is going to

961
00:53:47,680 --> 00:53:52,240
Speaker 1: release mostly methane or mostly carbon dioxide of still figuring

962
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: all of that out. Well either way, I mean, we

963
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 1: don't want more methane or carbon dioxide in the atmosphere

964
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,359
Speaker 1: right right. The melting of the perma frost is um

965
00:54:01,040 --> 00:54:05,799
Speaker 1: is alarming. Uh, certainly, no matter what the exact ramifications are. Well,

966
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:09,560
Speaker 1: but what does it mean for sub zero um? I

967
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,200
Speaker 1: don't know. Maybe nothing, But it could also provide a

968
00:54:12,239 --> 00:54:16,719
Speaker 1: mechanism by which a frozen warrior might explode given enough time.

969
00:54:16,760 --> 00:54:18,160
Speaker 1: I don't know. It depends how you look at it.

970
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:20,280
Speaker 1: He he generally doesn't let you stand there and rot.

971
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 1: But they do have a fighter now that is a

972
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,759
Speaker 1: master of time, So they could like they could they

973
00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:28,520
Speaker 1: could like double team um a a corpse and make it,

974
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, freeze it and then let it rot and

975
00:54:30,719 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: then it explodes and the time master speeds it up

976
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,800
Speaker 1: there so that it does that. That seems like cheating

977
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 1: if you're a master of time. You're just unbeatable, right

978
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:41,480
Speaker 1: even if you if you're about to lose, you always

979
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:43,879
Speaker 1: go back to start over again, I guess. But that's

980
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 1: how video games work, right, So maybe he's perfect. Oh yeah,

981
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: he's the living example of safe scrubbing. Yes, yes, well

982
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: this one's been fun, Robert, Yes, yeah it has. Obviously.

983
00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from everyone out there about your

984
00:54:56,719 --> 00:55:02,839
Speaker 1: frozen food exploits, about your viewing experience with UM with

985
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:05,680
Speaker 1: nineties cinema and the various things that get frozen and

986
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:09,040
Speaker 1: exploded UM or if you have some feedback about our

987
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,399
Speaker 1: thoughts on the Moral Kombat franchise, we'd love to hear

988
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,560
Speaker 1: from you on that as well. Or do you have

989
00:55:14,600 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 1: any uh, do you a direct experience of these permafrost

990
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:21,640
Speaker 1: regions we've been discussing here. Perhaps you have some some

991
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: feedback there. In the meantime, if you would like to

992
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:27,160
Speaker 1: listen to other episodes stuff to blow your mind, you

993
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,360
Speaker 1: can find us wherever you get your podcasts and wherever

994
00:55:29,400 --> 00:55:31,760
Speaker 1: that happens to be. We just asked the rate review

995
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 1: and subscribe huge things as always to our excellent audio

996
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 1: producer Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you'd like to get in

997
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,480
Speaker 1: touch with us with feedback on this episode, UH, to

998
00:55:40,560 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello.

999
00:55:43,680 --> 00:55:46,359
Speaker 1: You can email us at contact at stuff to Blow

1000
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind is

1001
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,040
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my

1002
00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: heart Radio, the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1003
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.