WEBVTT - The Oscars Series, Day 5: For Sama, This Year's Most Powerful Documentary 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:07.720 Hello, I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:15.920 My guests today are the filmmakers and subjects of the 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:25.159 Oscar nominated documentary For Sama. The film powerfully shows the 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:31.000 bravery and idealism of Syrians who are fighting for political freedom, 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:37.879 and it shows the depravity of the Assad regime. But 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:41.120 much more than that, For Sama is a sad but 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:45.040 hopeful story about starting a family as everything else you 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:50.920 know and love is ripped away. In two thousand eleven, 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:55.000 as the Syrian Uprising got underway, For Sama, co director 0:00:55.400 --> 0:00:59.320 Wad al Khatib was in college in Aleppo. She was 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:03.080 from a middle class family and her fiance's parents were 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.840 living abroad. They could have gotten out, but chose not to, 0:01:07.560 --> 0:01:10.600 and then they were trapped, and then ward was pregnant. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:16.760 She started filming everything, the protests, the shelling of her husband, 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:21.880 holmsa's hospital, even tea with friends, under the constant threat 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:29.800 of death, and as she films, her pregnancy becomes more 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:34.319 and more apparent. Wad eventually gives birth and starts to 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:39.520 raise her daughter, Sama in a city under siege. After 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.240 the family is finally forced to flee, she meets filmmaker 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:48.680 Edward Watts in London. Together they edit the film Watts. 0:01:49.040 --> 0:01:53.480 Wad and her husband Dr hamsa Al Kateb joined me 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:57.920 at a live event at last year's Hampton's International Film Festival. 0:01:58.480 --> 0:02:01.640 I wanted to understand what would make educated people with 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.760 access to comfortable lives be willing to risk everything to 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:10.120 change their government. I will speak personally. We never felt 0:02:10.120 --> 0:02:14.040 proud that we are Syrian. Everything in Syria since I 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.600 grow up, it's all related to Assad family. The main 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:18.720 thing that they always in the media trying to show 0:02:19.280 --> 0:02:24.640 the Syrian regime propaganda that said he's the doctor was 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:30.040 in Britain and he's like uh there and they were 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:33.959 like this democratic family and all of that, while the 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.639 reality is all of our life. When we were in school, 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:39.200 half of the said his father, we were calling him 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:44.000 the only words that the immortal leader. That's it. And 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.959 now like all in like before the revolution, before two eleven, 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:51.960 the country in all the media and the newspaper and everything, 0:02:52.000 --> 0:02:56.320 it's called Assad Syria. It was nothing like surprising for 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.960 us that the country was run by a dictatorship. Had 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:02.600 they known democrats you prior to the a Sad family 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:08.720 before a lot of political parties, election for the parliament 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.840 member and all of that. But after Las said, it's 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:15.160 all become based on one party, which is a Bath party, 0:03:15.240 --> 0:03:19.079 the same party that was also in Iraq in Bath Party. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:24.600 And then after that just nobody became interest in politics 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.040 because you know that it's just run by this family. 0:03:27.520 --> 0:03:31.200 It's rune by this party. And the only thing, the 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:34.000 only thing that I still remember my my parents who 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:37.080 are telling me, like, mind your own business, graduate from 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:41.680 university and just please leave the country to like practice 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:44.640 medicine in Germany or in the UK, and just stay 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:48.480 there and don't talk anything about politics, like not even 0:03:48.560 --> 0:03:51.240 in in in the university, like don't dream to become 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:54.320 like one of the like school membership. And is that 0:03:54.400 --> 0:03:57.760 the predominant mindset is when you can you get out 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.440 of here. You don't stay Yeah, because you have built 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.560 your dreams in such a country. You know each other 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:05.400 part of the corrupted system to be like to get 0:04:05.400 --> 0:04:08.760 employed or you just My my parents lived in Saudi 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:13.000 Arabia for twenty eight years after immediately they graduated. They 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.800 were both mathematic teachers, so they both graduated university and 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:20.600 then traveled to Saudi Arabia teaching there for twenty eight 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.440 years to afford to buy a house, and their only 0:04:23.480 --> 0:04:25.960 advice like, please, son, just we did all of that 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.560 for you to get to university, finish your school and 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:32.120 come to Saudi Arabia. Just they want you to come, 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:39.599 but you didn't. Yeah, why Basically after the revolution, which 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.040 personally I didn't expect at all that it will start 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:46.320 in Syria, Like I didn't think that we will dare 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:51.240 to stand against the Lessa, and when it started, we 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:54.000 we we felt like we this is our country, belongs 0:04:54.000 --> 0:04:57.080 here and we have now a say in the future 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.760 of this country, so everyone should participant. And then day 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:05.000 by day, demonstration after demonstration, we personally and I think 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.400 a lot of other Syrians felt like, as I said, 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:10.440 we had a say here in this country and it's 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:14.600 now our responsibility to stay here till till the end. Yeah. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.520 In two thousand and eleven, I felt like, I'm Syrian, 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:20.120 and I'm proud of being Syrian, and I really want 0:05:20.160 --> 0:05:22.920 to stay and do what I want to do. And 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.120 before even we knew each other, both of us has 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:29.440 a different plan to go out, and like as really 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.480 many other people, we like canceled that and just stayed 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:36.440 to do what we believe in How did you connect? 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:39.440 I was very passionate about what's been happening in Syria 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:42.240 since the beginning, because I felt that we've never seen 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.520 anything like it, to see people peacefully protesting in the 0:05:45.560 --> 0:05:47.880 way that they were and being met with a level 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:51.159 of violence that was just unprecedented. I felt since the 0:05:51.160 --> 0:05:53.200 Second World War. You know, we have this event in 0:05:53.240 --> 0:05:55.799 England called Bloody Sunday, which is like a huge stain 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:59.200 when soldiers shot ten protesters, and these guys were facing 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:02.440 ten bloody son days every week, and they were still 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:05.880 coming back and peacefully protesting and not resorting to violence. 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:08.479 And so for years I've been saying, can we please 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:10.920 make a film not about ISIS and not about all 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:14.400 those distractions, but about people like these two amazing guys, 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.880 middle class people just like us, with our education, who 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.440 are asking for the things that we'll take for granted. 0:06:20.960 --> 0:06:23.440 And so for years I've been saying that. But it 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.880 was only after Wad left that people realized. She came 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.880 out after the tragic events you saw, came to London 0:06:30.080 --> 0:06:33.400 with these war battered hard drives that literally bore the 0:06:33.440 --> 0:06:36.599 stains and wounds of war, and said, look what should 0:06:36.600 --> 0:06:40.200 we do with this this huge pile of material. I 0:06:40.240 --> 0:06:43.839 came in to help her craft craft the films. What 0:06:43.920 --> 0:06:45.840 kind of work were you doing before the What kind 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:47.680 of films were you making? I was making lots of 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.080 films about trouble places around the world. I did. I 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.600 did do one about Isis, which was about the Zidi 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:55.640 women who had been kidnapped and an amazing, brave group 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.040 of people who were trying to help them escape from 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:01.720 ices captivity. I've been to Congo, I've been to Afghanistan, Yemen, 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:07.000 had been to a lot of difficult places. You basically 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.520 trying to get people to see that people in these 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:13.360 places are not some alien species, they're not barbarians. They 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:15.960 are just like us, and we have something at stake 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:18.880 in their fate around the world. We need to change 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:20.640 the way that we look at the world so it's 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:23.120 not like us over here we're okay and they're in trouble, 0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:24.840 and you know it's a shame, but what the hell. 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:28.040 We're all connected. And I think Syria more than any 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:35.920 other conflict proves that. Now you meet with Edward after 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:40.200 the fact, and so you're shooting, you're there, are you 0:07:40.240 --> 0:07:43.360 the camera operator? And I was the boss to myself. 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:47.080 You were you directed yourself. You're like the orson wells 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:52.000 of Syria. Uh. But but the your inne level and 0:07:52.480 --> 0:07:54.720 the sense you get, of course, is that at any 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.640 given moment you could be dead, you personally and your 0:07:58.720 --> 0:08:01.880 children and your husband. A given moment, the bombs are 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:04.480 gonna drop and you're gonna get hit, as as in 0:08:04.520 --> 0:08:07.440 other areas. Yeah, And this is one of the things 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:10.600 why I kept filming and why I filmed everything, why 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:14.040 I was like very obsessed about like filming even if 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:17.520 we were asleep, because I felt that any moment could 0:08:17.520 --> 0:08:19.800 be the last minute. And I'm here, I have that 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:23.080 chance now to film this and I will be killed. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:25.040 I will not do a film. And I wasn't really 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.120 planning of what I will do in the all this material. 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:30.800 I was like, yeah, I'm here now, I know that 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:33.120 this is so important. I know if I've been killed, 0:08:33.960 --> 0:08:37.439 like this material will be something someone outside will use 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.200 it one day. But what I need to do now 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:42.880 that just make sure that this person who will take 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.840 this this material will have a lot of like blenty 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:49.720 choices to choose what story he was now Prior to 0:08:49.720 --> 0:08:51.760 two thousand and eleven, I'm assuming the population of a 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:55.080 lepod was one thing, and then I diminished considerable. And 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.000 when you were in a lepo, did you happen to 0:08:57.080 --> 0:08:59.480 live in an area that was less likely to get 0:08:59.520 --> 0:09:02.880 bombed like there was other thing whether things they were 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:07.000 trying to bomb, like power stations and media stations, Were 0:09:07.000 --> 0:09:09.480 they're trying to bomb certain targets and you were not 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:12.720 in that area or were you just as vulnerable as everybody. 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.400 We both from west part of Alippo, where it was 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:19.120 under the regime control all the time. So in two 0:09:19.160 --> 0:09:23.640 thousand twelve, when uh it's part of a Lippo's announced 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:28.199 that non control area which was under the Free Syrian Army, 0:09:28.480 --> 0:09:31.760 the people who carry wobon. So we moved to that 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:35.160 area because that was like a blaze out of the 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:39.000 gym control. It was safe that the regime can't arrest you, 0:09:39.679 --> 0:09:42.920 but it's not safe because the regime started bombing. So 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:45.800 we were living in that place. We knew that this 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:50.000 is now a free play area. There's many people who 0:09:50.160 --> 0:09:52.679 came to this place to live because they don't want 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.800 to live under the region control anymore. And it was 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.520 just a very strange life. Everything from zero there's no 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:03.679 basic services. There's nothing, and that's why from the set 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:07.320 up the hospital, so that place was just like a 0:10:07.400 --> 0:10:11.720 new city where there's really no one and people start 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:15.480 like to come and start their new life in that place. Basically, 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:20.440 I like I wish that we were vulnerable as the 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:24.959 other people because the region was just bunishing everyone who's 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.920 living there. That the main purpose was to make life 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.040 as like impossible for for the people, and like this 0:10:32.120 --> 0:10:35.320 is what happened when you're living not under my control. 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.080 But basically they we always know and everyone, all the 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:42.200 civilians knew that the hospitals are the main targets of 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:46.480 the regime, the backery, to the schools, every every place 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:50.120 where people can be like living normally or they want 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.520 like some services, they were being like attacked more than 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:56.560 any other place. So like I had some patience and 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:59.080 I sometimes need to admit like a patient for for 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.960 five days the hospital. He was telling me, like, can 0:11:02.000 --> 0:11:03.520 you give me just the I V drugs and I 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.360 will get him home, Like you know, a doctor, it's 0:11:05.360 --> 0:11:08.079 just difficult to look to stay five days in a 0:11:08.440 --> 0:11:11.600 hospital just dangerous. Sometimes like a mother will leave her 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:14.760 children there and she said, like I trust you that 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:16.120 you will take care of him, but I will not 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:19.560 stay here for like six days until the child will 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.920 like a discharge from from the hospital. When we moved 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:29.560 the hospital, there was like a small military base for 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.880 for the s A fighters, and we literally displaced them. 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.200 They just run away. They moved because the hospital was there, 0:11:38.200 --> 0:11:40.040 and she was like, oh, it's too dangerous to leave 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:45.040 our weapons next to you. We just move. Just to 0:11:45.120 --> 0:11:48.640 go back a little bit to describe your own backgrounds, 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:53.040 you studied medicine where I studied medicine in faculty of 0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:59.599 Medicine in a university starting two thousand and five, graduated 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.720 for Bright two thousand and twelve my last year, and 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:08.320 usually practicing in the university hospital. So I was participated 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:11.920 in in the demonstrations at the university, the one that 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:14.719 you've seen in the beginning of the film. I graduated 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.960 the brewery decided basically my main dream just to travel 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:23.600 to Germany and the train as a neurosurgeon. So but 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.320 I decided like, okay, I'll stay in the country until 0:12:26.400 --> 0:12:29.839 less it is down for a few maybe months, and 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:33.440 then go to Germany. But here we are, now, what 0:12:33.640 --> 0:12:36.080 is your background in filmmaking? How did that begin? For 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.959 you where and when I was from myself host like 0:12:40.040 --> 0:12:45.319 every other people around the world, you filmed yourself at home. Okay, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:48.480 you didn't got a film school and study film, No 0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.680 you didn't. I was. I did economics and then I 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:55.880 was in the university when the revolution started. So I 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.960 was the first demonstration, the second, third one. We've started, 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:04.439 like many people in the protest, filming what was happening 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.200 because we felt that this is something very important. And 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:10.200 when did that start for you? When did you feel 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.520 the urges are documenting what was happening around you? Like 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:19.520 I think the third protest I joined, start like filming 0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:25.079 with my phone, and then after maybe like other for protests, 0:13:25.360 --> 0:13:29.200 I started like filming before the protest and with some people, 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.480 asking them about what they feel. And at that time 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:35.400 you can't show any phase of these people. So like 0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:38.880 most of these interviews was like like from here to down, 0:13:39.800 --> 0:13:42.200 which is like it's not working for anything. Did you 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:45.000 get your first camera? The first camera I had? It 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:48.920 was the first scene when you've seen did the camera 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.720 come from? So I'm sure that there were a lot 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:54.559 of camera stores opening a lapo. No, there was like 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.040 it was really a crime to have a camera so 0:13:57.120 --> 0:14:00.400 I got it from a friend. It was sony hand 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:03.760 handy one, very small, and I couldn't take it out 0:14:03.880 --> 0:14:07.800 from my bag. He was all the time, yeah, and 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:10.040 into my bag all the time, and I make holes 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:13.719 in many bags I have. So that protest was the 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.560 first time I really liked there that I can't take 0:14:16.640 --> 0:14:19.880 my camera and put it out because like, this protest 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:22.920 was like thousands of people. So I was like, I 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.200 don't care whatever will happen. This is very important to 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:28.560 be fun. So I've talked it out and start filming. 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:30.560 And how many other people were doing that at the time. 0:14:30.760 --> 0:14:33.280 I don't think there was any camera. I'm like, because 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:36.000 no one was like thinking beyond what was happening. It 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.200 was more about news on Facebook. But I was like, okay, 0:14:39.240 --> 0:14:42.360 I love filming and I really enjoyed that. So I 0:14:42.400 --> 0:14:44.720 was That's why my friend who has the camera, he 0:14:44.760 --> 0:14:46.760 didn't use it. He give it to me because you 0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.120 think that this is a stupid care she will film 0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:53.240 by me. This is too dangerous. I want to ask you, Edward, 0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.280 so how do you interact with them for the first 0:14:56.320 --> 0:14:58.560 time when you get the footage? We were match made 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.040 to be honest, as I say, when wed revealed that 0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:04.040 she had this archive of over five hundred hours. Incredible 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.080 revealed to our colleagues at because she'd done some stuff 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.560 for Channel for News, so a couple of bits of 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:12.000 her footage had been seen on the news and as 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:13.440 you see in the film, you know they've got with 0:15:13.520 --> 0:15:16.280 these likes and shares on Facebook. But you arrived in 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.640 London when with the footage two thousand seventeen February, one 0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.480 month after we left a repo. I went to London 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:25.840 because I was working at Channel for News in two 0:15:25.840 --> 0:15:29.720 thousands sixteen and we were nominated to some like so 0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.480 you were getting stuff to them and like just a 0:15:32.480 --> 0:15:35.360 little bit less than eight minutes, you had a presence 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:38.000 in the UK media and then you wind up meeting 0:15:38.040 --> 0:15:40.480 with him. Yeah. What happened, well, essentially was like a 0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.840 blind date. So we met each other and just started 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.080 talking and wad and basically we just had a conversation 0:15:47.240 --> 0:15:49.880 about what she wanted to do with the footage and 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:52.600 what and when she started showing it to me, we 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:55.920 just sat for eight days with her scrubbing through this 0:15:56.080 --> 0:15:59.280 stuff and showing just some fraction of what she gathered, 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.320 and I just knew that it was the most extraordinary 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.560 archive of documentary footage that I was aware of, because 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.840 not only did it capture all the horror and the 0:16:08.880 --> 0:16:11.200 difficult times as you've seen, but it just captured the 0:16:11.200 --> 0:16:14.200 full spectrum of human life. There, the joy, the jokes. 0:16:14.240 --> 0:16:16.640 I mean, my experience of being in conflict zones is 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:19.200 how much humor there is. That's what people do to 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.920 keep themselves going, you know, to support each other, and 0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:24.400 you often only hear about all the terrible things they've done. 0:16:24.680 --> 0:16:27.400 You don't hear enough about what the best part of 0:16:27.480 --> 0:16:30.400 human beings in those situations. And yet this amazing woman 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.480 had managed to capture it on film, and you know 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:34.240 you must know this. You know, normally when you start 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:36.640 a project, the question is right, we've got an idea, 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.960 like how good will this be? But when I sat 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:41.040 with her and we saw this footage, I was like, 0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:45.520 this should be amazing, like and it's our responsibility to 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.160 do justice to these guys stories and to what she'd 0:16:48.200 --> 0:16:54.440 managed to capture. Edward Watts alongside the four SAMA co 0:16:54.600 --> 0:16:59.440 director wad Al Kateb and her husband Dr hamsa Olcatib. 0:17:00.240 --> 0:17:04.760 The medical charity Doctors Without Borders, known by its French 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:09.679 acronym m SF is currently active near it Lib, the 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:14.000 last Syrian rebel stronghold. It's where wand and harms of 0:17:14.119 --> 0:17:19.480 fled after militias drove them out of Aleppo. Dr Joanne 0:17:19.560 --> 0:17:24.760 Lou just stepped down after six years as MSF's international president. 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:28.160 She and I talked about what it was like working 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:32.080 in war torn Zechenia. You are bringing other people in danger. 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.840 We were on the attack on a regular basis, that's 0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:38.320 one thing, but the threat of being abducted was so huge, 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.159 and we knew that if something were ever to happen 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:45.160 to the MSF staff, then we will pull out, So 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:50.080 we were praying for not It was so nerve wracking 0:17:50.640 --> 0:17:53.480 out of fear. Yeah, and I hate that because you 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.520 know this, this is so self center and compared to 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.360 what all those people are going through. Come on, get 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:02.800 a grip on yourself. The rest of my conversation with 0:18:02.920 --> 0:18:06.560 Joanne Lou is in our archives that here's the thing, 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:21.520 Dot Org. I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:27.320 When they began their filmmaking collaboration, wad Al Katibu handed 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:32.679 her London based collaborator Edward Watts, over five hours of 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:37.119 footage from inside Aleppo. And that wasn't all of it. 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:39.320 I mean she was still bringing out footage on a 0:18:39.320 --> 0:18:40.639 couple of weeks ago. I was saying, hey, what did 0:18:40.680 --> 0:18:42.760 we never use this? I was like, stop, please see 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.080 the two of you like at home in bed, and 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:51.240 she's like, arms, wake up. Actually it was really annoying 0:18:52.880 --> 0:18:56.120 because it's necessary, right, and she was spending everything, and 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.520 since she's the wife, I can't say anything, so just supports, 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:03.720 you deal, your pay and like, I always felt that 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.399 whatever you think about will happen, So I wanted the 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.120 attraction law and all of that. So I always was positive, 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:11.680 like we're going to live. Nothing will happen to the hospital, 0:19:11.720 --> 0:19:15.000 everything is fine, We're going to get victory. And what 0:19:15.160 --> 0:19:17.879 was always like filming like because you want to capture 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:21.199 everything whenever happens. And I was always like, you're just 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.160 terrifying me. I feel like I'm going to die now, 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.800 just please stop. I'm going to live. But it's interesting 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:27.800 that in the film you do get that sense and 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.879 you don't want to project something. When did you shoot 0:19:30.880 --> 0:19:32.720 and when did you not shoot? Were there any rules? 0:19:33.400 --> 0:19:37.280 I don't shoot when the battery is empty. This is 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:40.360 the only get to charge. Yeah, I was filming at 0:19:40.400 --> 0:19:43.600 the two thousand and eleven and twelves like normally as 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.840 any other filmmaker could films like things that you think 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:50.119 that this is important, this is could be something important. 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.000 But then like in two thousand and thirteen, I was 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.160 like more filming because I get the sense of that 0:19:56.440 --> 0:20:00.560 strange life. But then like suddenly we've been in hospital 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:03.360 for the first six months and I was like shooting 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:07.480 us like in the mascret or eating or something, and 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.760 then suddenly like two of the people who we lived with, 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.399 there's just like being killed. And at that moment, I 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.680 felt like every minute could be the last one, and 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:20.520 it's so important for us to keep that. And I 0:20:20.520 --> 0:20:24.200 think even you said that one time that at that moment, 0:20:24.240 --> 0:20:26.639 I felt like, no, we need all this life to 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:30.399 be saved, whatever the situation was, and because really I 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:33.920 felt that I could be killed now, so this is important. 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.440 I didn't feel at at any footage I've got that 0:20:37.480 --> 0:20:40.880 there's something it could be not important. You had cards, 0:20:40.920 --> 0:20:44.119 obviously digital cards that were files that filled up, and 0:20:44.160 --> 0:20:47.800 did you have problems getting more and more supplies? Was 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:49.800 it difficult or did you have a pipeline to get 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:53.600 that stuff because of your relationship with the British television states. Yeah, 0:20:53.600 --> 0:20:56.720 the British television relation was in two thousands sixteen, which 0:20:56.800 --> 0:20:59.639 is just the last year, but everything before was I 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:02.080 was on and even on my relationship with them, they 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:06.119 support me a lot that like emotionally because they don't 0:21:06.119 --> 0:21:09.720 have any chance to get anything inside. But Alippo was 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.760 not a small city, and there there was a Jurkish 0:21:12.760 --> 0:21:15.720 border which is opened, so there's a trade always. You 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:17.760 have everything. You can buy a drone if you want 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:19.960 to buy a drone, and you shot with the drone, 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:23.960 I could tell Yeah, I thought, I thought, I'm looking 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.000 at the landscape thinking, I don't think there's any buildings 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:27.600 that were tall enough for you to stand in the 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:30.560 window to shoot those shot you shot with the drone. Yeah, 0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:34.199 did you go to Turkey? No. I got it from 0:21:34.240 --> 0:21:37.040 also another friend who brought it before, but he didn't 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:40.800 work on that. So the first like ten times I 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:43.760 was just going with him teach me how to do this. 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.360 So also the footage that you've seen, it's not very good. Actually, 0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:50.960 this is like a little bit of what I could capture, 0:21:51.040 --> 0:21:53.639 which is good, and it's seen a lot of like 0:21:53.880 --> 0:21:56.600 miss of some things like where you can did you 0:21:56.640 --> 0:21:59.359 crash the drone a few times? Yes? Yeah, it's been 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.680 like act you. I was very lucky that I did 0:22:01.760 --> 0:22:04.800 that last scene and then the day after that it 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:08.000 was like I didn't work. But also like there's a 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.359 very big problems always happened. Was like the laptop and 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:15.159 they s the card and the charger of this, and 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:19.119 then it's very really I don't know, but small things, 0:22:19.119 --> 0:22:21.280 but it's very the power go out over time. This 0:22:21.440 --> 0:22:24.760 is another problem which you have specific time to do this, 0:22:25.080 --> 0:22:27.720 or if you are in the hospital, there's better than 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.200 if you are at home. But it's all like, for example, 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:34.920 my my Mike was damage in one place and there's 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:38.919 one scene from that damage Mike, but I don't have 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.840 any other one after this. So it was like a 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:45.520 lot of obstrutting things, but it's done in the end. 0:22:45.840 --> 0:22:50.240 Now you're obviously you're a physician, and you stayed because 0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.040 you felt an obligation to your community. Exactly. That's what 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:56.800 happened because we we had a chance to leave Semma 0:22:57.080 --> 0:23:00.280 with my parents in Turkey before going back to Apple. 0:23:01.240 --> 0:23:03.920 But the first thing that came to both of our 0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:06.880 minds that what life its child will have, Like if 0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:09.639 she just grew away from her parents, we might be 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:12.600