Speaker 1: On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2: Black women have a history of taking care of our
Speaker 2: families and saving our families. Sometimes, some black women feel
Speaker 2: as if they can save men from their own emotional stuff,
Speaker 2: and in which case say, sit still, sister, You can't
Speaker 2: save this man from himself. Give that man the time
Speaker 2: he needs to figure his own shit out, because that's
Speaker 2: what you're looking for. And then when he circles back
Speaker 2: to you, if he circles back to you, hopefully he's
Speaker 2: in a different headspace in order to treat you like
Speaker 2: the queen that you are.
Speaker 3: Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just
Speaker 3: doesn't get you? Well, we do.
Speaker 1: Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting
Speaker 1: and empowering women like you.
Speaker 3: We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Broussard and educator You're On Psychologists.
Speaker 1: And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker.
Speaker 3: Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from
Speaker 3: fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black
Speaker 3: women to just be.
Speaker 1: Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow
Speaker 1: button and leave us a quick five star review. Lady,
Speaker 1: We are Black Founded and black owned, and your support
Speaker 1: will help us reach even more women like you.
Speaker 3: Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 4: It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast.
Speaker 4: Are you currently a resident of the state of California
Speaker 4: and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please
Speaker 4: reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com.
Speaker 4: That's d R d Omi ni Que b are Oussard
Speaker 4: dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I
Speaker 4: look forward to hearing from.
Speaker 1: You, lady. Today. We have a very special guest. Okay,
Speaker 1: the last time we had him on the show, I'm
Speaker 1: pretty sure we were on lockdown because of the vid
Speaker 1: aka COVID nineteen. But he made us laugh, He made
Speaker 1: us he made our guests clutch their pearl. Should I
Speaker 1: say that's what we heard from some people. Okay, but
Speaker 1: he was a whole vibe. Doctor James Widley has served
Speaker 1: as a clinician and mental health consultant in the metropolitan
Speaker 1: Philadelphia area for over twenty years. He has experienced working
Speaker 1: with individuals, families, couples and empowers them to reach their emotional, social, intimate,
Speaker 1: and spiritual potential. Now there is so much more that
Speaker 1: we could say about doctor Widley, but we're gonna let
Speaker 1: you hear it from him, Doctor James Widley, Welcome to
Speaker 1: Cultivating her Space. Welcome back to Cultivating her Space.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for the invitation again. You know,
Speaker 2: as you mentioned, Terry, we had a real nice time
Speaker 2: the last time and last time we met.
Speaker 5: I think it was first thing in the morning.
Speaker 2: Y'all hadn't even woken up by the time we started,
Speaker 2: but by the time.
Speaker 5: We were up and ready ready to go.
Speaker 2: So you need to do this dance again, and again
Speaker 2: I'm grateful to you and Don for inviting me back.
Speaker 3: Well, we are definitely looking forward to this conversation and
Speaker 3: we know that our audience is going to benefit so
Speaker 3: much from this. And so our quote of the day
Speaker 3: to kind of help ground the conversation. Our quote comes
Speaker 3: to us from bell Hooks. Intimate relationships can provide a
Speaker 3: sanctuary from the world of facades, a sacred space where
Speaker 3: we can be ourselves as we are. So doctor Wildlie,
Speaker 3: when you hear that quote from bell Hooks and you
Speaker 3: think about the work that you do, what comes up
Speaker 3: for you when you hear that quote.
Speaker 2: That sacred spaces are safe spaces. And the only reason
Speaker 2: why I came back to this kind, to this podcast
Speaker 2: is because y'all created a space where I felt comfortable
Speaker 2: enough to share whatever it was on my mind, whatever
Speaker 2: it was in my heart, and whatever it was was
Speaker 2: in my spirit. So yeah, I got the email. I
Speaker 2: was like, well, shoot, I got to come back. So
Speaker 2: the same thing happens in intimate relationships, where when partners
Speaker 2: feel comfortable and safe, then those spaces can be sacred
Speaker 2: and they feel safe, then they feel comfortable in being
Speaker 2: themselves and being authentic to themselves and to their partners.
Speaker 1: That is so beautiful and we appreciate you, and we
Speaker 1: do not take that for granted, doctor Wiley, So thank
Speaker 1: you so much for sharing that. And we have a
Speaker 1: bunch of questions for you.
Speaker 5: Of course you'll be waiting six years to come back now.
Speaker 5: Oh now, we got you.
Speaker 1: We got you, we got you, we got you, we
Speaker 1: got you. Well, so we have a bunch of questions
Speaker 1: for you, right, But what we want to ask you
Speaker 1: first is for the woman who's listening right who you know,
Speaker 1: the black woman who's doing her thing in the world
Speaker 1: right now, she's tuning in. What do you hope she
Speaker 1: walks away from and takes from this conversation, especially when
Speaker 1: it comes to loving, understanding, and relating to black men.
Speaker 2: I think what I would like for black women to
Speaker 2: get out of this episode of her podcast.
Speaker 5: I'm gonna keep promoting y'all.
Speaker 2: Because y'all about that life is that I want Black
Speaker 2: women to have a stronger sense of themselves and a
Speaker 2: stronger sense of the direction that they want to move in.
Speaker 2: Too often, some black women, not all black women, but
Speaker 2: some black women end up foregoing who they are just
Speaker 2: to get a partner and to keep a partner. But
Speaker 2: because you all have been successful in doing this, I
Speaker 2: want black women to walk away feeling strong. I want
Speaker 2: them to walk away feeling empowered and in the words
Speaker 2: of Maya Angelou, to be that phenomenal woman. So again,
Speaker 2: I just want Black women to get the most out
Speaker 2: of themselves out of everything that they do.
Speaker 3: Okay, yes, we love that we are here for it.
Speaker 3: So we've referenced multiple times that has been six years
Speaker 3: since you were.
Speaker 6: Last year.
Speaker 3: And so, and during that interview, we were in the
Speaker 3: midst of the pandemic, and we assume anecdotally that the
Speaker 3: pandemic had an impact on relationships. But you are the
Speaker 3: relationship expert. You work with couples on a daily basis.
Speaker 3: What have you seen in relationships that has shifted, Like,
Speaker 3: what are the changes in shifts that you've noticed that
Speaker 3: can be attributed directly to the pandemic.
Speaker 2: I think during the pandemic, because people were quarantined, people
Speaker 2: had a chance to sit still and just be with
Speaker 2: themselves differently than what they had been prior to the pandemic.
Speaker 2: Because people had a chance to sit still, when the
Speaker 2: quarantine was lifted, some folks end up cutting up and
Speaker 2: acting a food. And what that looks like in real
Speaker 2: time is that people became more creative imaginative in their
Speaker 2: identities creative and imaginative and the behaviors that they were
Speaker 2: willing to engage in and to take chances living their
Speaker 2: best lives. But since the pandemic, since there's been somewhat
Speaker 2: of a conservative shift in our country, people have become
Speaker 2: more conservative in their partner selections and maybe even more
Speaker 2: conservative in the behaviors that they exhibit in their relationships.
Speaker 2: And what that looks like is that for some people,
Speaker 2: and particularly some black folks, particularly black women, they've become
Speaker 2: more discerning and they ain't going out with you just
Speaker 2: because you got this or that or whatever. They're more
Speaker 2: likely to ask questions. They're more likely to set boundaries
Speaker 2: and be like, nah, I'm good, I'm cool, I'm better
Speaker 2: by my damn self.
Speaker 5: And it's been.
Speaker 2: Awesome that they've looked inside rather than looking to all
Speaker 2: these external forms of reinforced, particularly.
Speaker 5: From black men.
Speaker 1: That's a really good observation. And with that in mind,
Speaker 1: what have you heard from the men about that? Like,
Speaker 1: what have the men been saying about Yeah? Oh, the
Speaker 1: men they feel in some kind of way.
Speaker 2: You're not just gonna show up and think you just
Speaker 2: gonna get some get some setting that wop that wap.
Speaker 5: You not just gonna do that. You got to pay
Speaker 5: for it.
Speaker 2: And black men long enough to say, nah, I'm good.
Speaker 2: And even if you are paying for it, if your
Speaker 2: credit ain't right, if your teeth are raggedy, and you
Speaker 2: ain't been to the dentist, if you ain't got no checkups,
Speaker 2: you can't show up with no STI papers. No, black
Speaker 2: women ain't not going for the okie dope, No more
Speaker 2: so black black men. They we have had to get
Speaker 2: our shit together.
Speaker 5: Am I not a curse? On your podcast.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes you are.
Speaker 2: Yes, I know we got blackches, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: if I could step out there right away, but to
Speaker 2: get our shit together. And then, like I said, it's
Speaker 2: good that black women are holding the line and saying
Speaker 2: now we're not going down these old paths and going
Speaker 2: for the old oakie dope like we once used to.
Speaker 3: That. Okay that, and so with the men recognizing that
Speaker 3: black women are going for the okie dope, that we
Speaker 3: are holding the line in terms of like the standards
Speaker 3: and boundaries of what we're looking for. What how has
Speaker 3: that shifted for black men in terms of the way
Speaker 3: they choose to approach relationships.
Speaker 2: Well, that's that opens up a whole nother can worms
Speaker 2: because you know, we don't want to do right. You know,
Speaker 2: we get bogged down and we get so focused in
Speaker 2: our video games, we get so focused on our online
Speaker 2: gambling platforms, we get so focused on staying at home
Speaker 2: and living with our mamas. That black women have taken
Speaker 2: a back seat to all these other deflections of intimacy.
Speaker 2: And so sometimes for some of us, sometimes we feel
Speaker 2: like we can do better by our damn selves, and
Speaker 2: we don't want to do the work on ourselves and
Speaker 2: on our relationships to have something different.
Speaker 3: Ooh, you have black men in your office, and he
Speaker 3: is sharing with you because you've created that safe space
Speaker 3: for him to open up and bare his soul and
Speaker 3: say the things that he's not necessarily willing to say
Speaker 3: out loud. Well, what are those things that he's not
Speaker 3: willing to say out loud to his partner, to his friends,
Speaker 3: to his family.
Speaker 2: I would say one, I haven't addressed the trauma that
Speaker 2: I endured in my family of origin when I was
Speaker 2: growing up, whether I was abused, abandoned, or neglected. I
Speaker 2: hadn't really talked about it with anybody. That's one. I
Speaker 2: haven't really addressed the event, excuse me, the trauma that
Speaker 2: I endured from my previous relationship, where I may have
Speaker 2: felt mistreated or misguided or misunderstood. I haven't worked it
Speaker 2: out with myself, with my family, with my pastor with
Speaker 2: my therapist. So I bring all that baggage to this
Speaker 2: new relationship. So when I do bring the baggage to
Speaker 2: the new relationship, I'm looking to you or looking to
Speaker 2: y'all to help me process all this crap that should
Speaker 2: have been dealt with before you and I got together. Somehow,
Speaker 2: some way, I was able to fashion my life in
Speaker 2: a way that attracted you to me, But you didn't
Speaker 2: know that I was carrying all this baggage with me.
Speaker 2: So with the black men I work with, we spend
Speaker 2: a lot of time doing family and of origin work.
Speaker 2: We spend a lot of time doing emotional intelligence work.
Speaker 2: We spend a lot of time on building, on talking
Speaker 2: about how to build and maintain a healthy relationship. But
Speaker 2: more often than not, because we haven't done the work.
Speaker 2: Black men haven't done the work, we not ready to
Speaker 2: do the work with our partners, and that's where the
Speaker 2: chasm hat. So there's a lot of work that the
Speaker 2: black men have to do around their past as well
Speaker 2: as their present to figure out what the hell they
Speaker 2: want to get when they finally meet somebody and try
Speaker 2: to have something different.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, Dom and I both like that is
Speaker 1: so spot on, because I'm sure we've experienced that right
Speaker 1: the aftermath of someone not having done that work, Doctor Wilder.
Speaker 1: I have so many questions for you now, but I
Speaker 1: guess the one I want to lean into is for
Speaker 1: the woman who's listening right now. She's like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: he just hit the nail on the head. This is
Speaker 1: my man right now. But this man is telling me
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to go to therapy. Oh I wanted
Speaker 1: to go to therapy. What does a woman do in
Speaker 1: that situation. He's a good guy overall, but like he
Speaker 1: has all this trauma and this stuff underneath, this baggage
Speaker 1: that's really impacting the relationship. And maybe she's doing the
Speaker 1: work on herself, but he's not.
Speaker 2: What's the shelf life of black women carrying black men
Speaker 2: for the rest of their lives. Oh So, when the
Speaker 2: man declares that he's not open and willing to do
Speaker 2: the work, it's no longer about him. It's about her
Speaker 2: and what was she willing to do to enable the
Speaker 2: behavior that's held them hostage for X number of months
Speaker 2: or X number of years. She's got some hard choices
Speaker 2: to make. And sometimes for some black women, they stay
Speaker 2: in relationships because they're fearful of what's on the other
Speaker 2: side of not having somebody, or they're fearful of looking
Speaker 2: in the mirror at themselves and realizing that if they
Speaker 2: are going to be phenomenal and awesome and be as
Speaker 2: extraordinary as they believe they think they should be, they
Speaker 2: got to be willing to walk away and.
Speaker 1: Quick follow up if that trauma is not addressed and
Speaker 1: he does not do the work, what typically do you
Speaker 1: see happen? Like, what are the outcomes? Just so we
Speaker 1: can paint that picture for them.
Speaker 2: Black women's well, the black women who come into my practice,
Speaker 2: they sit there crying, and I offer empathy and I
Speaker 2: offer them grace and I understand. But then again, black
Speaker 2: women sometimes they hold themselves hostage and relationships that don't
Speaker 2: fulfill their needs, and they sit around not only crying
Speaker 2: while they meet with me, but they I actually say
Speaker 2: to them, I said, well, you know, you look five, ten,
Speaker 2: twenty thirty years down the road. Your tears are probably
Speaker 2: related to the amount of time that you've wasted trying
Speaker 2: to coach up a black man who wasn't willing or
Speaker 2: able to do the work on himself. And that's not
Speaker 2: on him, that's on you because you knew from day one,
Speaker 2: or from month one or from year one that you
Speaker 2: should have walked away.
Speaker 3: So you're saying that the women should walk away and
Speaker 3: she should have walked away early on.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: And one thing that I've heard is that men tell
Speaker 3: you early on who they are and what they're looking
Speaker 3: for and what they're capable of bringing to the table,
Speaker 3: and that sometimes as women, we don't listen to that.
Speaker 3: And so how do you work with women in getting
Speaker 3: them to that space where they're ready to walk away?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: So thanks for asking, and again thanks for patients. Thanks
Speaker 2: for your patients. So we spend time talking about codependence.
Speaker 2: And sometimes the codependence emerges from some Black women not
Speaker 2: having dealt with their trauma of abuse, abandonment, neglect prior
Speaker 2: to them entering into the relationship. So once we draw
Speaker 2: parallels and lines from their childhood all the way up
Speaker 2: to this relationship, then they can see that, oh, this
Speaker 2: wasn't the first dude who I gave more than one
Speaker 2: chance to. I've been given dudes chances since day one
Speaker 2: because I was i don't know, abandoned or neglected when
Speaker 2: I was a kid by my mom or dad. So
Speaker 2: once we identify that, then we talk about the areas
Speaker 2: in which some black women have support, meaning that for
Speaker 2: some black women, they're very good at networking and having
Speaker 2: friendships that can allow them to have to tell them
Speaker 2: to feel like they are part of a village. So
Speaker 2: if you break up with your dude or reposition the
Speaker 2: relationship to become something else. Then hopefully you have friends
Speaker 2: and family who are there to support you when you
Speaker 2: are feeling the most lonely and the most vulnerable. But again,
Speaker 2: sometimes some black women haven't addressed the fear that exists
Speaker 2: in their lives around what life might be like if
Speaker 2: they don't have somebody. But really they do because I
Speaker 2: don't know, you always got a friend in Jesus, So
Speaker 2: there's that. But then they also have the strong members
Speaker 2: as well as friendships that can enable them to make
Speaker 2: mourning the loss of the relationship just a little bit
Speaker 2: easier even though it's hard.
Speaker 1: That's good. Thank you for touching on the support because
Speaker 1: that is so key. I think we've all been in
Speaker 1: spaces where we've had to end a relationship and it
Speaker 1: is so hard, it's so challenging, and oftentimes it takes
Speaker 1: us a lot of tries to do that. So thank
Speaker 1: you for highlighting that. Doctor Wildly, I want to shift
Speaker 1: gears a little bit and think about the woman who's
Speaker 1: maybe in a relationship with a man who is doing
Speaker 1: the work. He's doing the work, he's trying to meet
Speaker 1: her there. You know, they're working together. But let's talk
Speaker 1: about the fact that many of us say we want
Speaker 1: emotionally available men, but oftentimes I'm just going by the
Speaker 1: group chat. Okay, Oftentimes there's this unspoken limit on how
Speaker 1: much vulnerability we're actually comfortable witnessing. So whether that's the
Speaker 1: man you know, crying or displaying anger or you know,
Speaker 1: hurt or complaining certain characteristics that sometimes you'll see on
Speaker 1: social media people saying what are they say? They're like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's maybe feminine is the word I'm looking for, but
Speaker 1: they say something there's something else they say on social
Speaker 1: media that escapes me. But how do we what do
Speaker 1: you say to that? Doctor, Aldi like, how do women
Speaker 1: handle that?
Speaker 2: That? Hopefully both partners feel safe enough to emote in
Speaker 2: a way that allows them to not only share, but
Speaker 2: also learn and grow with one another. So for my
Speaker 2: male clients, we spend time talking about, you know, the
Speaker 2: continuum of masculinity and that traditional notions of masculinity means
Speaker 2: that you're strong and aggressive and assertive and maybe non emotive.
Speaker 2: But then I always challenge that those ideas around a
Speaker 2: particular emotion, and that I'll share with them that it
Speaker 2: takes a strong man to cry whenever he gets good
Speaker 2: and ready. So then or you know, have feelings of sadness,
Speaker 2: or feelings of even anger, or even happiness. Sometimes we
Speaker 2: as black men, we only display happiness when our favorite
Speaker 2: sports team wins.
Speaker 5: So, you know, having those moments.
Speaker 2: And actually practice practice those moments in therapy and inviting
Speaker 2: different kinds of emotional intelligence to factor in allows for
Speaker 2: a different kind of conversation between partners where partners can
Speaker 2: feel safe sharing whatever it is it's on their mind
Speaker 2: as well as feel heard as well as validated or affirmed.
Speaker 1: That's rateful. I do have a quick follow up question.
Speaker 1: I want to know when a man is finally vulnerable,
Speaker 1: what is the worst thing a partner can do in
Speaker 1: that moment when they are vulnerable, And ideally, can you
Speaker 1: share with us, like what does it look like to
Speaker 1: hold space for a man who is emotional at the
Speaker 1: in the moment.
Speaker 2: So one of the hardest things for some black men,
Speaker 2: and I think that's a people issue, is to share
Speaker 2: that kind of emotional vulnerability where maybe they do cry.
Speaker 2: The worst thing that somebody can do is judge, ridicule,
Speaker 2: minimize or negate those feelings. Sometimes partners, I ain't telling
Speaker 2: anybody to do this. Sometimes partners just need to shut up.
Speaker 2: You don't have to run in and fix your partner's
Speaker 2: emotions if they are angry, annoyed, frustrated, sad, confused, or whatever.
Speaker 2: Sometimes the space is just to listen, let your partner
Speaker 2: share his or her their feelings, and then when they're done,
Speaker 2: you ask them tell me what kind of support I
Speaker 2: can offer. In nine times out of ten, partners will
Speaker 2: just say, you know, I just wanted you to hear
Speaker 2: you out, or you know it, just hold me right now,
Speaker 2: and that typically goes a long way and or helps
Speaker 2: the partners to share the next time. Because if I
Speaker 2: come in and I'm sharing my feelings and you telling
Speaker 2: me what I should have done, didn't do, what was
Speaker 2: supposed to do, could have done? You not, Yeah, we're
Speaker 2: gonna get through this, but you won't hear from me again.
Speaker 3: Yep, yep exactly. And so you mentioned earlier about creating
Speaker 3: emotional safety, right what and we hear that term a lot.
Speaker 3: What does that actually look like in a healthy, loving
Speaker 3: relationship dynamic?
Speaker 2: So for me, that means, if you feel comfortable, tell
Speaker 2: me what you may need in the moment. I may say,
Speaker 2: dom Terry, I just need to tell y'all what's on
Speaker 2: my mind. So then you all say, all right, James,
Speaker 2: go ahead. So then I say, well, look, I had
Speaker 2: a nice time with y'all the last time. I can't
Speaker 2: believe that we waited six years to finally get together.
Speaker 2: Now the moment you say, well, James, we ain't heard
Speaker 2: from you either. You knew that we were popping, you
Speaker 2: knew we were hot. We ain't eat, we ain't getting
Speaker 2: no emails from you. While you sit there and wait,
Speaker 2: and then I say to y'all, well, you know what,
Speaker 2: You're right. Both of us could have reached out to
Speaker 2: us prior to six years. But at this point, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm confused, I'm angry, I'm hurt, and I feel abandoned.
Speaker 2: And then you say, you know what, James, we got you,
Speaker 2: And and you said, James, what kind of support can
Speaker 2: we offer to you right now? So again, safety is
Speaker 2: about hearing a person out, learning from maybe some missteps
Speaker 2: in communication or in the relationship, and then actively inviting
Speaker 2: the other to share what kind of support they may
Speaker 2: need from here on out. Because just as black men
Speaker 2: will tell you what they're what may be wrong, so
Speaker 2: too can we tell you what prescription we may need
Speaker 2: in order to make.
Speaker 1: It right, that's really good. Thank you for that, and
Speaker 1: thank you for sharing sharing your feelings with us. We
Speaker 1: appreciate you and we.
Speaker 3: Will not wait sixty years moving forward.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he heard you.
Speaker 5: It takes two to take because I was all in
Speaker 5: my fields. Hear from me? Is I didn't hear from you?
Speaker 5: So fel.
Speaker 2: You know Tom is Terry is James, and we got
Speaker 2: to fix this dysfunction. And we can't wait six years
Speaker 2: to get back. Get back on this zoom call.
Speaker 1: That's right, we're going to fix this dysfunction.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 1: Talking about dysfunction. We see a lot of dating and
Speaker 1: relationship advice online. I'm sure lady, if you're listening, you
Speaker 1: probably see it all over. How do we decide who
Speaker 1: is a credible source? I feel like everyone's on TikTok
Speaker 1: or Instagram, like do this in a relationship? Oh, a
Speaker 1: person doesn't call you back? Do this? How do you
Speaker 1: tell what advice to actually follow?
Speaker 2: Well, if your social media sites are like my social
Speaker 2: media sites that comprise my friends, family, maybe influencers, everybody
Speaker 2: is a damn relationship expert, right, everybody got something to
Speaker 2: say about something. Everybody's damn expert. So how do you
Speaker 2: decide who is the most credible. So you do your homework.
Speaker 2: Can you do your research, and hopefully you find a
Speaker 2: relationship expert, therapist whoever, who has a value system similar
Speaker 2: to yours. For me, I tend to look for folks
Speaker 2: who are willing to displayed their own sense of vulnerability
Speaker 2: because the ain't no sense of me coming to listen
Speaker 2: to you, and you ain't got nothing to say about
Speaker 2: nothing about what's going on in your life.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I'm not necessarily looking for you to tell me your business,
Speaker 2: but I do want to know that you grounded and
Speaker 2: confident enough to demonstrate humility. I'm okay with in show
Speaker 2: telling folks. Look, I'm man, my cousin's house.
Speaker 6: The internet.
Speaker 2: It's raggedy over here and I and while EBT is helped,
Speaker 2: Ebt and Snap are helpful, they not paying for no internet.
Speaker 2: So again, I look for folks who are real folks,
Speaker 2: who are genuine and authentic. And actually that is a
Speaker 2: tip of the hat to you all, because I don't
Speaker 2: do everybody's podcasts. I talked about Discernment earlier, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was like, man, let me go on and get
Speaker 2: on Terry and dons her podcast because they keep it real.
Speaker 3: Thank you, we appreciate that. And so in that in
Speaker 3: that discernment, how do we know or what is some
Speaker 3: of the advice that you've seen online or heard people
Speaker 3: talking about. Maybe your clients have brought it into session
Speaker 3: that it sounds good, but it's actually doing damage to relationships.
Speaker 2: Folks get caught up in the manisphere, and folks who.
Speaker 5: Might be.
Speaker 2: So into themselves that they have difficulty conveying empathy or
Speaker 2: compassion towards anyone else. And so for some of us men,
Speaker 2: we get caught up in the manisphere or this toxic
Speaker 2: sense of masculinity, and it's difficult for us to discern
Speaker 2: what is reality and what is fantasy. For some folks
Speaker 2: in the manisphere, they don't see the contributions that women
Speaker 2: make to their lives, and somehow, some way, those distortions
Speaker 2: have been internalized in the way where they disregard the
Speaker 2: beauty and the power of women. So I would say,
Speaker 2: folks in those in those spaces that they have difficulty discerning,
Speaker 2: you know what well fantasy and reality.
Speaker 1: That's really helpful. Thank you for sharing that. And I'm
Speaker 1: also thinking about doctor Wiley. Those situations where you you know,
Speaker 1: friends with benefits let's just call it what it is, right,
Speaker 1: friends with benefits situations, And I'm thinking about nowm and
Speaker 1: I've talked about this on the podcast where you have
Speaker 1: you're in a space in life where you're like, you
Speaker 1: know what, this might be my whole phase. I'm just
Speaker 1: having fun and that's what it is, right, and you
Speaker 1: think that you're just going to be with this person.
Speaker 1: It's going to be fun, but then you know, people
Speaker 1: catch feelings and things like that. So I'm thinking about
Speaker 1: situations like that. I'm also thinking about scenarios where someone's dating.
Speaker 1: What are some of the I guess red flags are
Speaker 1: things that people should really pay attention to and maybe
Speaker 1: take action or like make a decision about when they
Speaker 1: see them, versus letting it just kind of go with
Speaker 1: the flow and then they kind of get caught up
Speaker 1: in a situation. And that makes any sense, That was
Speaker 1: the kind of weird, weirdly worded question, but I hope
Speaker 1: it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Well, there, I got two things from you. So if
Speaker 2: people want to have friends with benefits or situationships or whatever,
Speaker 2: so long as sex is safe, it's pleasurable, and it's consensual,
Speaker 2: go for right. And that's having some sort of ethical
Speaker 2: standing or code for which you follow. The red flags
Speaker 2: that pop up should be hopefully honored, particularly because you
Speaker 2: all of us have our own sense of value and
Speaker 2: sense of morality, and when the red flags come up,
Speaker 2: we can turn away from those values and sense of morality,
Speaker 2: or we can continue to push through. Sometimes people have
Speaker 2: difficulty discerning even though they may say, well, look, you know,
Speaker 2: I want somebody who's going to be faithful to me,
Speaker 2: and then they find a partner who's not going to
Speaker 2: be faithful to them, and then they realize that they're
Speaker 2: going to endure or continue moving forward even though those
Speaker 2: red flags have been though, even though those red.
Speaker 5: Flags have been raised.
Speaker 2: So for me, I spend time talking with my clients
Speaker 2: about again having a sense of clarity around who they are,
Speaker 2: clarity about what they want, and then clarity around the
Speaker 2: trajectory and path for the relationship. Because without clarity, they
Speaker 2: don't be struggling and they made red flags that come up.
Speaker 3: That's like this word clarity. And so for the men
Speaker 3: that you are working with, what are they clear about
Speaker 3: that they are looking for in partners these days?
Speaker 2: They're clear that they probably want to have sex.
Speaker 6: Sooner of course, Yeah, there they didn't want them draw
Speaker 6: they trying to get them pannies.
Speaker 5: So you know a lot of times guys, they they
Speaker 5: move into fast.
Speaker 7: I'm like, come on, man, you you still hadn't worked
Speaker 7: on your stuff or your baggage, and then you thinking
Speaker 7: that you need to that you're entitled to have sex.
Speaker 5: And that's that doesn't that leaves little room for learning
Speaker 5: and growth and making good decisions.
Speaker 3: So I would say that, Okay, so they're looking, so
Speaker 3: follow up questions. So, if they're looking to have sex sooner,
Speaker 3: is there room for the relationship to grow and have
Speaker 3: a healthy dynamic if the sex is if the sex
Speaker 3: comes first, or the sex is like prominent in the relationship, and.
Speaker 2: So long as it's safe, consensual, and it's pleasurable, go
Speaker 2: for it. The absence of a conversation around sex history,
Speaker 2: the absence of a conversation about number of partners, the
Speaker 2: absence of a conversation around sexual what is taking puts
Speaker 2: the man and his partner in jeopardy for something. So again,
Speaker 2: for clients, we invite or I invite them to slow
Speaker 2: things down. Yeah, you can be into all things sex,
Speaker 2: but until you have a conversation about again, your past,
Speaker 2: your baggage and what you want in the moment and
Speaker 2: what you may want down the road. You might be
Speaker 2: placing yourself and your partner in harm's way. But don't
Speaker 2: do nothing on a lot of men looking for them draws.
Speaker 5: On this podcast.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they try this podcast. I love themphasis on
Speaker 1: safe sex and they're trying to get them genius, get
Speaker 1: them draws now, Doctor Wilay. We don't often have men
Speaker 1: on the podcast, right, so I feel like we're getting
Speaker 1: the inside scoop. We're able to ask all these questions.
Speaker 1: So I have a bunch of other questions coming, and
Speaker 1: I want to know from your perspective, like does this
Speaker 1: whole you know, people bring up the ninety day role.
Speaker 1: We have our own perspective on, you know, rolls around
Speaker 1: when to have sex. But from your experience and the
Speaker 1: men that you've worked with, and again your experience is
Speaker 1: the ninety day role? Does that matter? Like when how
Speaker 1: soon a woman has sex and how serious a man
Speaker 1: takes her? Like, what is your perspective on all that?
Speaker 1: I know we're going to be safe for sure, So.
Speaker 2: Whether it's nine days, ninety days, or ninety minutes, right,
Speaker 2: there has to be a conversation around what you want
Speaker 2: as well as how you're going to protect yourself. So
Speaker 2: some people, I well, I have plenty of clients who
Speaker 2: have been with their partners for nine years, or nineteen
Speaker 2: years or twenty nine years, and they still don't have
Speaker 2: a sense of who their partner is. So again, with
Speaker 2: my clients, I'll spend time, you know, taking a sex
Speaker 2: history and inviting them to share aspects of themselves that
Speaker 2: they may not have shared with anybody before. So, for example,
Speaker 2: you meet somebody, you think they're hot, they think you're hot,
Speaker 2: why not have a conversation around other partners that the
Speaker 2: person has been with and then giving yourself an opportunity
Speaker 2: to learn more about not only the partners that they've
Speaker 2: been with, but the kinds of intimacy that they've expressed
Speaker 2: over the courses of course of those relationships. When people
Speaker 2: become when people are uncomfortable having those sensitive conversations, hopefully
Speaker 2: that might not be a red flag, but that should
Speaker 2: be a yellow flag, like, hey, old on, maybe we
Speaker 2: need to slow down, Maybe we need to wait another
Speaker 2: ninety minutes or another days until you and I can
Speaker 2: have a sensitive conversation about the continuum of intimacy as
Speaker 2: well as the way in which we protect ourselves engaging
Speaker 2: in the continuum of intimacy.
Speaker 5: That'd be a hell of a book title.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you heard it here first.
Speaker 3: Yes. And so as we think about this conversation that
Speaker 3: we're having and we're we have, we know we have
Speaker 3: a captive audience right now, right we know that the
Speaker 3: ladies are tuned in and they are like taking in
Speaker 3: all that, soaking in all the information. Is there anything
Speaker 3: else that black men want with the women in their
Speaker 3: lives to know that we haven't touched on yet?
Speaker 2: You earlier you had mentioned that some black men will
Speaker 2: tell you exactly what they want. And for some of us,
Speaker 2: because we lack emotional intelligence, but we know what our
Speaker 2: boundaries are. Sometimes we'll tell women we need time and
Speaker 2: space to sit in our own feelings, in our own discomfort.
Speaker 2: Because black women have a history of taking care of
Speaker 2: our families and saving our families. Sometimes some black women
Speaker 2: feel as if they can save men from their own
Speaker 2: emotional stuff, and in which case say, sit still, system,
Speaker 2: you can't save this man from himself. Give that man
Speaker 2: the time he needs to figure his own shit out,
Speaker 2: because that's what you're looking for. And then when he
Speaker 2: circles back to you. If he circles back to you,
Speaker 2: hopefully he's in a different headspace in order to treat
Speaker 2: you like the queen that you are.
Speaker 1: Thank you for that. That is so so valuable, And
Speaker 1: I truly believe that's going to help a lot of
Speaker 1: women that are tuning in. And I want to go
Speaker 1: back to something you said, doctor Wiley. You talked about
Speaker 1: really the importance of safe. Really you talked about clarity,
Speaker 1: clarity and getting having these conversations before you're engaging in
Speaker 1: intimacy with folks, right, And so I think back to,
Speaker 1: you know, my journey, and I had to become a
Speaker 1: woman of a particular age to kind of get to
Speaker 1: a place where I felt comfortable engaging those conversations. And
Speaker 1: now I have like a nice little little question list
Speaker 1: that I can ask. But for the young folks, like
Speaker 1: when I was young, I didn't really have that language.
Speaker 1: What is a way to like bring this bring it
Speaker 1: to the people so that if they're literally going out
Speaker 1: on a date tonight, they can like bring up some
Speaker 1: of the questions like Okay, I know I want the
Speaker 1: draws or I know I want the boxes. How what
Speaker 1: question is going to be asking this conversation to make
Speaker 1: it sound you know, like cool and not like an interview,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: But it is an interview. I mean you can't. Yeah
Speaker 2: it is you fanticize intimacy or courtship or you know,
Speaker 2: trying to body. But the truth is is that folks
Speaker 2: need to protect themselves in ways that allows them to
Speaker 2: have another date. And so what I tell them all
Speaker 2: my folks like, turn your damn phone off.
Speaker 5: And present it owned. Yeah it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's gonna be some times where you don't know
Speaker 2: what to say, but be willing to sit with your
Speaker 2: partner and not feel like you have to save yourself
Speaker 2: with your phone. So but then I think the most
Speaker 2: important thing is that for me, I encourage my couple
Speaker 2: individuals and couples to be creative and imaginative in the
Speaker 2: moment that imagine being a kid, all right, and I'm
Speaker 2: making some assumptions about your childhood. When you're a kid
Speaker 2: and you don't have any equipment to play with, or
Speaker 2: if you do have equipment to play with, you use
Speaker 2: your creativity imagination to make the.
Speaker 5: Time goes by.
Speaker 2: That kids come up with all kinds of things to
Speaker 2: do when they don't have anything. But sometimes when they
Speaker 2: don't have resources or toys or whatever. But as adults,
Speaker 2: we feel like we have to run to our phones,
Speaker 2: or run to the TV, or run to some sort
Speaker 2: of screen in order to fill in the space when
Speaker 2: you take that when you take that screen away, some
Speaker 2: of us are fish out of water and we don't
Speaker 2: know what to do with ourselves. And so I guess
Speaker 2: one tip I would offer is turn your phone off.
Speaker 2: And then when you go out on a date, invite
Speaker 2: your partner to turn his or her phone off, and
Speaker 2: let's see what happens. And if you sit still long enough,
Speaker 2: the magic will really happen.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, I think we're ready for some magic to happen.
Speaker 3: And so outside of yes, taking the phone away allowing
Speaker 3: ourselves to be creative, what are some of the other
Speaker 3: key components that are necessary for building a healthy, long
Speaker 3: lasting relationship.
Speaker 2: Well, I would say maybe time. Don't be in such
Speaker 2: of a hurry to I don't know, have forever on
Speaker 2: the ballot right then and there, So there's time. Then
Speaker 2: there is listening that if I listen to you and
Speaker 2: keep my mouth shut, there's a chance that I can listen,
Speaker 2: learn and grow from whatever it is that you're sharing,
Speaker 2: because again I'm gonna tell you what I want, it's
Speaker 2: just not you're gonna listen to it. Then I think
Speaker 2: there needs to be some level of compassion and made empathy.
Speaker 2: So if I have gone through some shit, I'm not
Speaker 2: looking to be judge, ridicule and minimized. I'm looking for
Speaker 2: you to have empathy and compassion towards my previous experience
Speaker 2: where I may have had many growth opportunities. But if
Speaker 2: you're judging me, or if you're laughing at me, I
Speaker 2: ain't coming back. You're not gonna see me. And then
Speaker 2: I think that there has to be some flexibility or
Speaker 2: agility that just as you all have been in this podcast,
Speaker 2: I didn't know and I didn't know that my Internet
Speaker 2: was going to be raggedy, but y'all have been agile
Speaker 2: enough in order to accommodate my Internet deficiencies and say,
Speaker 2: you know, it's all right, We're good. So I think
Speaker 2: you know, just using in there. And those are somewhat
Speaker 2: larger terms, but I think keeping those tenets in mind
Speaker 2: may allow for not only individual growth, but also for
Speaker 2: relational growth.
Speaker 1: That's super important, doctor Riley. And the good news is
Speaker 1: if you're open, we would love to have you back
Speaker 1: when you are in a better you do have better internet,
Speaker 1: because we have more that we want to discuss with you.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I want to highlight is
Speaker 1: something you said this a couple of times when you
Speaker 1: were talking about expressing feelings, and you said, if you
Speaker 1: show up this way, I ain't sharing nothing else. That
Speaker 1: is so important for people to know, like that is
Speaker 1: such a delicate space when someone is opening up and
Speaker 1: someone is vulnerable. Whether you are I don't even want
Speaker 1: to say agreed, but whether you are comfortable with how
Speaker 1: they're showing up, but just being able to hold space,
Speaker 1: not laugh, not make it silly, just to be there
Speaker 1: with them. It sounds like that's just really really important.
Speaker 1: And sometimes it is a one shot thing, like if
Speaker 1: you show up in a terrible way, someone may not
Speaker 1: really come back to you. They really may shut you
Speaker 1: off in that way. And so I think highlighting that
Speaker 1: is just really really important. So thank you for that.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you, And like I said, you know,
Speaker 2: you all have been successful for six plus years, and
Speaker 2: I'm sure that folks have learned a lot from you know,
Speaker 2: listening to your podcast. In terms of you know you
Speaker 2: all talking about healthy relationships and wellness and all things
Speaker 2: that empower black women and black listeners to be better
Speaker 2: versions of themselves.
Speaker 3: Yes, and we appreciate you coming on and joining us again,
Speaker 3: and like Terry mentioned, we will definitely have you back.
Speaker 3: But before we wrap up, can you share with our
Speaker 3: listeners how they can find how can they work with you?
Speaker 3: If they're like they're listening and they're like, oh, this
Speaker 3: is the therapist that I need. Like me and my guy,
Speaker 3: we got to come and see you, how can they
Speaker 3: work with you? And then also, you do a lot
Speaker 3: of scholarly work that is beneficial for the community at large,
Speaker 3: and so can you share with us how folks can
Speaker 3: access some of your work.
Speaker 2: So I be in these streets and I get around,
Speaker 2: get around, I get a lot. If folks want to
Speaker 2: reach out to me, they can reach me at Dr
Speaker 2: James Wadley dot com and they can see how I've
Speaker 2: been blessed and how I've been privileged, and how I've
Speaker 2: been favored and all those things. They can find me
Speaker 2: via Google. Come up.
Speaker 5: If you read something on Google that may.
Speaker 2: Be inconsistent with what I've shared on the podcast, it
Speaker 2: may or may not be true, but you're more than
Speaker 2: welcome reach out to me to find out for sure.
Speaker 2: And then you know again, you know, I'm I've been
Speaker 2: fortunate enough to be in a lot of different spaces,
Speaker 2: both domestically and abroad, and you know, to be invited
Speaker 2: back here to this podcast, you know, I was like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I gotta do this, so yeah, folks can find me.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, doctor Ridley.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 1: If you want more speaking engagements, collaborations, or visibility for
Speaker 1: your brand, I got to tell you the truth. This
Speaker 1: is Terry Lomax and I've been a public speaker for
Speaker 1: over twelve years. I've landed national media, a TED Talk,
Speaker 1: and six figure collaborations without a publicist or a big
Speaker 1: social media following. And here's what most people don't hear.
Speaker 1: You don't need a publicist or a massive audience to
Speaker 1: get booked. Most people are waiting to feel established first,
Speaker 1: and that waiting is costing them visibility. How many times
Speaker 1: have you looked up and seeing people with less experience
Speaker 1: getting opportunities you were fully qualified for. Here's the truth.
Speaker 1: Opportunities don't go to the most qualified. They go to
Speaker 1: the people who can clearly communicate their value. Once I
Speaker 1: learned how to organize my story and position my expertise
Speaker 1: using a framework. Everything changed. If you want my exact
Speaker 1: pitch emails, word for word, my winning subject lines, and
Speaker 1: the Saucy Solutions framework, visit get that pitch dot com
Speaker 1: for a limited time use Cold her Space for a
Speaker 1: special listener discount. If this is your year to stop
Speaker 1: hiding and start getting booked, I'll see you inside. Visit
Speaker 1: get that pitch dot com or click the link in
Speaker 1: our notes.
Speaker 3: Thanks for tuning into Cultivating her Space. Remember that while
Speaker 3: this podcast is all about healing, empowerment, and resilience, it's
Speaker 3: not a substitute for therapy. If you or someone you
Speaker 3: know need support, check out resources like Therapy for Black
Speaker 3: Girls for Psychology Today. If you love today's episode, do
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Speaker 1: And before we meet again, repeat after me and move
Speaker 1: in alignment not urgency. What's meant for me? Respond to me,
Speaker 1: Keep thriving, lady, and tune in next Friday for more
Speaker 1: inspiration from Cultivating her Space. In the meantime, be sure
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