WEBVTT - Black Men and Relationships with Dr. James Wadley 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:04.640 On this week's episode of Cultivating her Space. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.320 Black women have a history of taking care of our 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:12.720 families and saving our families. Sometimes, some black women feel 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:16.440 as if they can save men from their own emotional stuff, 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:21.799 and in which case say, sit still, sister, You can't 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.480 save this man from himself. Give that man the time 0:00:26.320 --> 0:00:29.000 he needs to figure his own shit out, because that's 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:32.320 what you're looking for. And then when he circles back 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.480 to you, if he circles back to you, hopefully he's 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:38.479 in a different headspace in order to treat you like 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:39.600 the queen that you are. 0:00:41.760 --> 0:00:45.080 Hey, lady, have you ever felt like the world just 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.880 doesn't get you? Well, we do. 0:00:49.960 --> 0:00:53.720 Welcome to Cultivating her Space, the podcast dedicated to uplifting 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:55.360 and empowering women like you. 0:00:56.520 --> 0:01:02.360 We're your hosts, doctor Dominique Broussard and educator You're On Psychologists. 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.520 And Terry Lomax, a techie and transformational speaker. 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:09.959 Join us every week for authentic conversations about everything from 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.720 fibroids to fake friends as we create space for black 0:01:14.760 --> 0:01:18.280 women to just be. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.279 Before we dive in, make sure you hit that follow 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.119 button and leave us a quick five star review. Lady, 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:26.200 We are Black Founded and black owned, and your support 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.360 will help us reach even more women like you. 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:34.040 Now, let's get into this week's episode of Cultivating her Space. 0:01:35.959 --> 0:01:38.960 It's doctor dom here from the Cultivating her Space podcast. 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.880 Are you currently a resident of the state of California 0:01:43.560 --> 0:01:48.640 and contemplating starting your therapy journey? Well, if so, please 0:01:48.680 --> 0:01:52.520 reach out to me at doctor Dominique Brusard dot com. 0:01:53.000 --> 0:02:02.520 That's d R d Omi ni Que b are Oussard 0:02:03.240 --> 0:02:08.240 dot com to schedule a free fifteen minute consultation. I 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:09.720 look forward to hearing from. 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.840 You, lady. Today. We have a very special guest. Okay, 0:02:13.840 --> 0:02:16.200 the last time we had him on the show, I'm 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.919 pretty sure we were on lockdown because of the vid 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:24.240 aka COVID nineteen. But he made us laugh, He made 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:27.200 us he made our guests clutch their pearl. Should I 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:28.880 say that's what we heard from some people. Okay, but 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.920 he was a whole vibe. Doctor James Widley has served 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:36.239 as a clinician and mental health consultant in the metropolitan 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.480 Philadelphia area for over twenty years. He has experienced working 0:02:40.520 --> 0:02:47.880 with individuals, families, couples and empowers them to reach their emotional, social, intimate, 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.840 and spiritual potential. Now there is so much more that 0:02:51.840 --> 0:02:53.800 we could say about doctor Widley, but we're gonna let 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.240 you hear it from him, Doctor James Widley, Welcome to 0:02:57.280 --> 0:03:00.000 Cultivating her Space. Welcome back to Cultivating her Space. 0:03:01.440 --> 0:03:04.400 Thank you so much for the invitation again. You know, 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.760 as you mentioned, Terry, we had a real nice time 0:03:06.840 --> 0:03:09.239 the last time and last time we met. 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:10.720 I think it was first thing in the morning. 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.000 Y'all hadn't even woken up by the time we started, 0:03:13.000 --> 0:03:14.000 but by the time. 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.200 We were up and ready ready to go. 0:03:16.320 --> 0:03:18.720 So you need to do this dance again, and again 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.840 I'm grateful to you and Don for inviting me back. 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:28.000 Well, we are definitely looking forward to this conversation and 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.440 we know that our audience is going to benefit so 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.720 much from this. And so our quote of the day 0:03:33.840 --> 0:03:36.720 to kind of help ground the conversation. Our quote comes 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:42.080 to us from bell Hooks. Intimate relationships can provide a 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:47.000 sanctuary from the world of facades, a sacred space where 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:52.600 we can be ourselves as we are. So doctor Wildlie, 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:57.960 when you hear that quote from bell Hooks and you 0:03:58.000 --> 0:04:01.600 think about the work that you do, what comes up 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:03.280 for you when you hear that quote. 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:10.520 That sacred spaces are safe spaces. And the only reason 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:13.320 why I came back to this kind, to this podcast 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:17.000 is because y'all created a space where I felt comfortable 0:04:17.120 --> 0:04:20.520 enough to share whatever it was on my mind, whatever 0:04:20.560 --> 0:04:23.000 it was in my heart, and whatever it was was 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:25.240 in my spirit. So yeah, I got the email. I 0:04:25.279 --> 0:04:27.200 was like, well, shoot, I got to come back. So 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:30.400 the same thing happens in intimate relationships, where when partners 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:35.240 feel comfortable and safe, then those spaces can be sacred 0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.320 and they feel safe, then they feel comfortable in being 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:42.400 themselves and being authentic to themselves and to their partners. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:46.159 That is so beautiful and we appreciate you, and we 0:04:46.240 --> 0:04:48.159 do not take that for granted, doctor Wiley, So thank 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.039 you so much for sharing that. And we have a 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:50.919 bunch of questions for you. 0:04:50.960 --> 0:04:53.760 Of course you'll be waiting six years to come back now. 0:04:53.880 --> 0:04:55.120 Oh now, we got you. 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.359 We got you, we got you, we got you, we 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:00.640 got you. Well, so we have a bunch of questions 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:02.159 for you, right, But what we want to ask you 0:05:02.200 --> 0:05:05.680 first is for the woman who's listening right who you know, 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:07.520 the black woman who's doing her thing in the world 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:09.840 right now, she's tuning in. What do you hope she 0:05:09.920 --> 0:05:13.400 walks away from and takes from this conversation, especially when 0:05:13.440 --> 0:05:17.200 it comes to loving, understanding, and relating to black men. 0:05:19.080 --> 0:05:22.400 I think what I would like for black women to 0:05:22.480 --> 0:05:25.200 get out of this episode of her podcast. 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:26.440 I'm gonna keep promoting y'all. 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.960 Because y'all about that life is that I want Black 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:34.279 women to have a stronger sense of themselves and a 0:05:34.360 --> 0:05:36.960 stronger sense of the direction that they want to move in. 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.320 Too often, some black women, not all black women, but 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.040 some black women end up foregoing who they are just 0:05:44.080 --> 0:05:47.120 to get a partner and to keep a partner. But 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.720 because you all have been successful in doing this, I 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:53.599 want black women to walk away feeling strong. I want 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.760 them to walk away feeling empowered and in the words 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.800 of Maya Angelou, to be that phenomenal woman. So again, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.000 I just want Black women to get the most out 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.000 of themselves out of everything that they do. 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:10.279 Okay, yes, we love that we are here for it. 0:06:11.080 --> 0:06:16.000 So we've referenced multiple times that has been six years 0:06:16.400 --> 0:06:17.880 since you were. 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:18.880 Last year. 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:23.839 And so, and during that interview, we were in the 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:30.880 midst of the pandemic, and we assume anecdotally that the 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:35.960 pandemic had an impact on relationships. But you are the 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:41.640 relationship expert. You work with couples on a daily basis. 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:46.800 What have you seen in relationships that has shifted, Like, 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:49.800 what are the changes in shifts that you've noticed that 0:06:49.920 --> 0:06:53.360 can be attributed directly to the pandemic. 0:06:55.000 --> 0:06:59.120 I think during the pandemic, because people were quarantined, people 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.520 had a chance to sit still and just be with 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:07.240 themselves differently than what they had been prior to the pandemic. 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.680 Because people had a chance to sit still, when the 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:16.400 quarantine was lifted, some folks end up cutting up and 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:19.400 acting a food. And what that looks like in real 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.040 time is that people became more creative imaginative in their 0:07:23.120 --> 0:07:26.200 identities creative and imaginative and the behaviors that they were 0:07:26.200 --> 0:07:29.120 willing to engage in and to take chances living their 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:34.320 best lives. But since the pandemic, since there's been somewhat 0:07:34.320 --> 0:07:37.520 of a conservative shift in our country, people have become 0:07:37.560 --> 0:07:41.160 more conservative in their partner selections and maybe even more 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:44.960 conservative in the behaviors that they exhibit in their relationships. 0:07:45.520 --> 0:07:48.240 And what that looks like is that for some people, 0:07:48.320 --> 0:07:51.680 and particularly some black folks, particularly black women, they've become 0:07:51.760 --> 0:07:55.440 more discerning and they ain't going out with you just 0:07:55.480 --> 0:07:59.640 because you got this or that or whatever. They're more 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:03.520 likely to ask questions. They're more likely to set boundaries 0:08:03.560 --> 0:08:07.080 and be like, nah, I'm good, I'm cool, I'm better 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:08.400 by my damn self. 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:10.360 And it's been. 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:16.240 Awesome that they've looked inside rather than looking to all 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:19.720 these external forms of reinforced, particularly. 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:19.880 From black men. 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.800 That's a really good observation. And with that in mind, 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.040 what have you heard from the men about that? Like, 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.600 what have the men been saying about Yeah? Oh, the 0:08:31.640 --> 0:08:34.200 men they feel in some kind of way. 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:39.400 You're not just gonna show up and think you just 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:43.400 gonna get some get some setting that wop that wap. 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.079 You not just gonna do that. You got to pay 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:46.559 for it. 0:08:47.320 --> 0:08:51.480 And black men long enough to say, nah, I'm good. 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:54.720 And even if you are paying for it, if your 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:58.280 credit ain't right, if your teeth are raggedy, and you 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:01.880 ain't been to the dentist, if you ain't got no checkups, 0:09:02.160 --> 0:09:05.400 you can't show up with no STI papers. No, black 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.520 women ain't not going for the okie dope, No more 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.320 so black black men. They we have had to get 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:12.200 our shit together. 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.120 Am I not a curse? On your podcast. 0:09:14.240 --> 0:09:15.120 Yes, yes you are. 0:09:15.400 --> 0:09:20.440 Yes, I know we got blackches, but I didn't know 0:09:20.480 --> 0:09:23.079 if I could step out there right away, but to 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:24.959 get our shit together. And then, like I said, it's 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:27.320 good that black women are holding the line and saying 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:29.520 now we're not going down these old paths and going 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.760 for the old oakie dope like we once used to. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:38.160 That. Okay that, and so with the men recognizing that 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:40.720 black women are going for the okie dope, that we 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:44.800 are holding the line in terms of like the standards 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:50.400 and boundaries of what we're looking for. What how has 0:09:50.440 --> 0:09:53.560 that shifted for black men in terms of the way 0:09:53.600 --> 0:09:56.600 they choose to approach relationships. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.480 Well, that's that opens up a whole nother can worms 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.640 because you know, we don't want to do right. You know, 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.240 we get bogged down and we get so focused in 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:10.199 our video games, we get so focused on our online 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:14.800 gambling platforms, we get so focused on staying at home 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.240 and living with our mamas. That black women have taken 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:21.040 a back seat to all these other deflections of intimacy. 0:10:21.400 --> 0:10:24.680 And so sometimes for some of us, sometimes we feel 0:10:24.679 --> 0:10:26.840 like we can do better by our damn selves, and 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:29.920 we don't want to do the work on ourselves and 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.280 on our relationships to have something different. 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:40.280 Ooh, you have black men in your office, and he 0:10:40.840 --> 0:10:44.840 is sharing with you because you've created that safe space 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.120 for him to open up and bare his soul and 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:51.920 say the things that he's not necessarily willing to say 0:10:51.960 --> 0:10:55.480 out loud. Well, what are those things that he's not 0:10:55.559 --> 0:11:01.920 willing to say out loud to his partner, to his friends, 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:03.600 to his family. 0:11:05.320 --> 0:11:10.400 I would say one, I haven't addressed the trauma that 0:11:10.480 --> 0:11:12.920 I endured in my family of origin when I was 0:11:12.960 --> 0:11:16.840 growing up, whether I was abused, abandoned, or neglected. I 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:21.480 hadn't really talked about it with anybody. That's one. I 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.800 haven't really addressed the event, excuse me, the trauma that 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:28.640 I endured from my previous relationship, where I may have 0:11:28.720 --> 0:11:34.520 felt mistreated or misguided or misunderstood. I haven't worked it 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:37.760 out with myself, with my family, with my pastor with 0:11:37.880 --> 0:11:40.640 my therapist. So I bring all that baggage to this 0:11:40.720 --> 0:11:43.600 new relationship. So when I do bring the baggage to 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.920 the new relationship, I'm looking to you or looking to 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:50.960 y'all to help me process all this crap that should 0:11:51.000 --> 0:11:54.840 have been dealt with before you and I got together. Somehow, 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:57.160 some way, I was able to fashion my life in 0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.920 a way that attracted you to me, But you didn't 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.120 know that I was carrying all this baggage with me. 0:12:02.679 --> 0:12:04.720 So with the black men I work with, we spend 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:06.640 a lot of time doing family and of origin work. 0:12:06.640 --> 0:12:09.240 We spend a lot of time doing emotional intelligence work. 0:12:09.440 --> 0:12:12.000 We spend a lot of time on building, on talking 0:12:12.000 --> 0:12:16.040 about how to build and maintain a healthy relationship. But 0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:18.240 more often than not, because we haven't done the work. 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.680 Black men haven't done the work, we not ready to 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.760 do the work with our partners, and that's where the 0:12:22.840 --> 0:12:25.800 chasm hat. So there's a lot of work that the 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.800 black men have to do around their past as well 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.000 as their present to figure out what the hell they 0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:33.480 want to get when they finally meet somebody and try 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:34.520 to have something different. 0:12:36.080 --> 0:12:38.199 Oh my goodness, Dom and I both like that is 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.200 so spot on, because I'm sure we've experienced that right 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.640 the aftermath of someone not having done that work, Doctor Wilder. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.080 I have so many questions for you now, but I 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:49.160 guess the one I want to lean into is for 0:12:49.240 --> 0:12:51.760 the woman who's listening right now. She's like, oh my gosh, 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:53.600 he just hit the nail on the head. This is 0:12:53.640 --> 0:12:56.160 my man right now. But this man is telling me 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:57.800 he doesn't want to go to therapy. Oh I wanted 0:12:57.800 --> 0:12:59.719 to go to therapy. What does a woman do in 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.880 that situation. He's a good guy overall, but like he 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:05.640 has all this trauma and this stuff underneath, this baggage 0:13:05.960 --> 0:13:09.680 that's really impacting the relationship. And maybe she's doing the 0:13:09.720 --> 0:13:11.320 work on herself, but he's not. 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.680 What's the shelf life of black women carrying black men 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:21.320 for the rest of their lives. Oh So, when the 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.440 man declares that he's not open and willing to do 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:26.120 the work, it's no longer about him. It's about her 0:13:26.800 --> 0:13:31.400 and what was she willing to do to enable the 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:35.360 behavior that's held them hostage for X number of months 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.199 or X number of years. She's got some hard choices 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.920 to make. And sometimes for some black women, they stay 0:13:41.920 --> 0:13:44.200 in relationships because they're fearful of what's on the other 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:48.760 side of not having somebody, or they're fearful of looking 0:13:48.760 --> 0:13:51.679 in the mirror at themselves and realizing that if they 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.720 are going to be phenomenal and awesome and be as 0:13:54.800 --> 0:13:57.800 extraordinary as they believe they think they should be, they 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:01.319 got to be willing to walk away and. 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.280 Quick follow up if that trauma is not addressed and 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:06.920 he does not do the work, what typically do you 0:14:06.920 --> 0:14:09.319 see happen? Like, what are the outcomes? Just so we 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:10.480 can paint that picture for them. 0:14:11.240 --> 0:14:13.880 Black women's well, the black women who come into my practice, 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.680 they sit there crying, and I offer empathy and I 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.640 offer them grace and I understand. But then again, black 0:14:20.680 --> 0:14:24.240 women sometimes they hold themselves hostage and relationships that don't 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.960 fulfill their needs, and they sit around not only crying 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.680 while they meet with me, but they I actually say 0:14:31.720 --> 0:14:33.920 to them, I said, well, you know, you look five, ten, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:38.040 twenty thirty years down the road. Your tears are probably 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:41.520 related to the amount of time that you've wasted trying 0:14:41.560 --> 0:14:44.000 to coach up a black man who wasn't willing or 0:14:44.040 --> 0:14:46.480 able to do the work on himself. And that's not 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:49.160 on him, that's on you because you knew from day one, 0:14:49.360 --> 0:14:51.680 or from month one or from year one that you 0:14:51.720 --> 0:14:52.640 should have walked away. 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:57.360 So you're saying that the women should walk away and 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.360 she should have walked away early on. 0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:00.840 Right. 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.560 And one thing that I've heard is that men tell 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:10.480 you early on who they are and what they're looking 0:15:10.520 --> 0:15:12.880 for and what they're capable of bringing to the table, 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:16.200 and that sometimes as women, we don't listen to that. 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:24.400 And so how do you work with women in getting 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:28.440 them to that space where they're ready to walk away? 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:30.400 Right? 0:15:30.520 --> 0:15:33.320 So thanks for asking, and again thanks for patients. Thanks 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.640 for your patients. So we spend time talking about codependence. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:41.800 And sometimes the codependence emerges from some Black women not 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:46.200 having dealt with their trauma of abuse, abandonment, neglect prior 0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:49.720 to them entering into the relationship. So once we draw 0:15:50.120 --> 0:15:54.560 parallels and lines from their childhood all the way up 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:57.840 to this relationship, then they can see that, oh, this 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.520 wasn't the first dude who I gave more than one 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:05.480 chance to. I've been given dudes chances since day one 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.000 because I was i don't know, abandoned or neglected when 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:12.520 I was a kid by my mom or dad. So 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:17.880 once we identify that, then we talk about the areas 0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.680 in which some black women have support, meaning that for 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.960 some black women, they're very good at networking and having 0:16:25.000 --> 0:16:29.440 friendships that can allow them to have to tell them 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.040 to feel like they are part of a village. So 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:34.720 if you break up with your dude or reposition the 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.840 relationship to become something else. Then hopefully you have friends 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:41.680 and family who are there to support you when you 0:16:42.080 --> 0:16:45.440 are feeling the most lonely and the most vulnerable. But again, 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:49.280 sometimes some black women haven't addressed the fear that exists 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.520 in their lives around what life might be like if 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.880 they don't have somebody. But really they do because I 0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:57.800 don't know, you always got a friend in Jesus, So 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.600 there's that. But then they also have the strong members 0:17:01.920 --> 0:17:05.440 as well as friendships that can enable them to make 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.600 mourning the loss of the relationship just a little bit 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:09.960 easier even though it's hard. 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:13.240 That's good. Thank you for touching on the support because 0:17:13.240 --> 0:17:15.679 that is so key. I think we've all been in 0:17:15.720 --> 0:17:17.600 spaces where we've had to end a relationship and it 0:17:17.680 --> 0:17:20.080 is so hard, it's so challenging, and oftentimes it takes 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:22.440 us a lot of tries to do that. So thank 0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:24.920 you for highlighting that. Doctor Wildly, I want to shift 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.919 gears a little bit and think about the woman who's 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.640 maybe in a relationship with a man who is doing 0:17:29.640 --> 0:17:32.200 the work. He's doing the work, he's trying to meet 0:17:32.200 --> 0:17:35.480 her there. You know, they're working together. But let's talk 0:17:35.520 --> 0:17:38.120 about the fact that many of us say we want 0:17:38.160 --> 0:17:42.359 emotionally available men, but oftentimes I'm just going by the 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:47.200 group chat. Okay, Oftentimes there's this unspoken limit on how 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.240 much vulnerability we're actually comfortable witnessing. So whether that's the 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.639 man you know, crying or displaying anger or you know, 0:17:54.800 --> 0:17:58.520 hurt or complaining certain characteristics that sometimes you'll see on 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.680 social media people saying what are they say? They're like, oh, 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.480 that's maybe feminine is the word I'm looking for, but 0:18:03.520 --> 0:18:05.080 they say something there's something else they say on social 0:18:05.080 --> 0:18:07.840 media that escapes me. But how do we what do 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:09.760 you say to that? Doctor, Aldi like, how do women 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.160 handle that? 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:16.399 That? Hopefully both partners feel safe enough to emote in 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:19.840 a way that allows them to not only share, but 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.359 also learn and grow with one another. So for my 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:26.879 male clients, we spend time talking about, you know, the 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:31.600 continuum of masculinity and that traditional notions of masculinity means 0:18:31.600 --> 0:18:34.760 that you're strong and aggressive and assertive and maybe non emotive. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.040 But then I always challenge that those ideas around a 0:18:39.040 --> 0:18:41.760 particular emotion, and that I'll share with them that it 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:44.359 takes a strong man to cry whenever he gets good 0:18:44.440 --> 0:18:48.240 and ready. So then or you know, have feelings of sadness, 0:18:48.280 --> 0:18:51.960 or feelings of even anger, or even happiness. Sometimes we 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.720 as black men, we only display happiness when our favorite 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:55.919 sports team wins. 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:58.720 So, you know, having those moments. 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:02.400 And actually practice practice those moments in therapy and inviting 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.080 different kinds of emotional intelligence to factor in allows for 0:19:06.200 --> 0:19:09.800 a different kind of conversation between partners where partners can 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.680 feel safe sharing whatever it is it's on their mind 0:19:12.800 --> 0:19:16.320 as well as feel heard as well as validated or affirmed. 0:19:18.240 --> 0:19:20.520 That's rateful. I do have a quick follow up question. 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.840 I want to know when a man is finally vulnerable, 0:19:22.880 --> 0:19:25.000 what is the worst thing a partner can do in 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:27.960 that moment when they are vulnerable, And ideally, can you 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:29.119 share with us, like what does it look like to 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.200 hold space for a man who is emotional at the 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:32.920 in the moment. 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:38.160 So one of the hardest things for some black men, 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:41.320 and I think that's a people issue, is to share 0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.280 that kind of emotional vulnerability where maybe they do cry. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.919 The worst thing that somebody can do is judge, ridicule, 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:55.680 minimize or negate those feelings. Sometimes partners, I ain't telling 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.080 anybody to do this. Sometimes partners just need to shut up. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.680 You don't have to run in and fix your partner's 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:09.160 emotions if they are angry, annoyed, frustrated, sad, confused, or whatever. 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:14.359 Sometimes the space is just to listen, let your partner 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:19.040 share his or her their feelings, and then when they're done, 0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.240 you ask them tell me what kind of support I 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.680 can offer. In nine times out of ten, partners will 0:20:25.760 --> 0:20:27.840 just say, you know, I just wanted you to hear 0:20:27.880 --> 0:20:31.200 you out, or you know it, just hold me right now, 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.879 and that typically goes a long way and or helps 0:20:34.960 --> 0:20:37.960 the partners to share the next time. Because if I 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.400 come in and I'm sharing my feelings and you telling 0:20:40.440 --> 0:20:42.240 me what I should have done, didn't do, what was 0:20:42.240 --> 0:20:45.000 supposed to do, could have done? You not, Yeah, we're 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.240 gonna get through this, but you won't hear from me again. 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:55.520 Yep, yep exactly. And so you mentioned earlier about creating 0:20:55.640 --> 0:21:00.000 emotional safety, right what and we hear that term a lot. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:06.200 What does that actually look like in a healthy, loving 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:07.840 relationship dynamic? 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:15.480 So for me, that means, if you feel comfortable, tell 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.840 me what you may need in the moment. I may say, 0:21:19.000 --> 0:21:21.280 dom Terry, I just need to tell y'all what's on 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.919 my mind. So then you all say, all right, James, 0:21:24.920 --> 0:21:28.560 go ahead. So then I say, well, look, I had 0:21:28.600 --> 0:21:31.160 a nice time with y'all the last time. I can't 0:21:31.200 --> 0:21:34.240 believe that we waited six years to finally get together. 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:37.680 Now the moment you say, well, James, we ain't heard 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:39.960 from you either. You knew that we were popping, you 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:41.840 knew we were hot. We ain't eat, we ain't getting 0:21:41.840 --> 0:21:44.119 no emails from you. While you sit there and wait, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.600 and then I say to y'all, well, you know what, 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.040 You're right. Both of us could have reached out to 0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:52.360 us prior to six years. But at this point, you know, 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:56.160 I'm confused, I'm angry, I'm hurt, and I feel abandoned. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.080 And then you say, you know what, James, we got you, 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.320 And and you said, James, what kind of support can 0:22:02.359 --> 0:22:05.520 we offer to you right now? So again, safety is 0:22:05.560 --> 0:22:11.679 about hearing a person out, learning from maybe some missteps 0:22:11.680 --> 0:22:16.440 in communication or in the relationship, and then actively inviting 0:22:16.480 --> 0:22:19.800 the other to share what kind of support they may 0:22:19.840 --> 0:22:22.680 need from here on out. Because just as black men 0:22:22.760 --> 0:22:26.119 will tell you what they're what may be wrong, so 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:28.800 too can we tell you what prescription we may need 0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:29.679 in order to make. 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:35.479 It right, that's really good. Thank you for that, and 0:22:35.520 --> 0:22:38.399 thank you for sharing sharing your feelings with us. We 0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:40.560