1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: Fellow Ridiculous historians, we are back with a classic and 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: this is this is a really weird one for us. 3 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:11,399 Speaker 1: We started looking into Noel. I think it began because 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: we're looking into the history of serial killers, and we 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: found a story of someone who is often alleged to 6 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 1: be the world's first documented murderer of this type. This 7 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: doesn't sound ridiculous. 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,160 Speaker 2: This sounds disturbing and upsetting, right, I'm sure we handle 9 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 2: it with wit and charm though. Discussion of La Costa 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,480 Speaker 2: of Gaul we're talking about, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't 11 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: that like the region that became France? 12 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. CCL cool. Ridiculous History is 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio, previously on Ridiculous History. I'm kidding. 14 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: I just always love when those voices come in at 15 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: the beginning of something like a lost. 16 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 2: I was going to just chime in and be like, 17 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:24,440 Speaker 2: what happened? I want to know I was there and 18 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 2: I don't even remember. 19 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: Right by the way, you're nol, I'm Ben. We are 20 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 1: joined with our guest super producer Paul Decant, who has 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 1: an awesome sound cue. I love that. I love that thing, 22 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 1: whatever that is is. 23 00:01:43,920 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 2: Paul get to pick out his own sound effect because 24 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 2: he's actually filling in for a super producer, Casey Pegram 25 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: here in the spirit nice, it's where the sound effect 26 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,880 Speaker 2: goes Paul. And so, yeah, Paul could potentially pick out 27 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: his own sound effect. 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 1: That's true, and I thought he did on a previous episode. Paul, 29 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: but we can't wait to hear it. 30 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 2: Wait a minute, We've we've been informed that Paul's had 31 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,679 Speaker 2: a sound effect all along. Now we knew what it 32 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:14,240 Speaker 2: sounded like. It's sort of a mission control Yeah, you know, 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 2: bleeps and bloops kind of sound effect. 34 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's very spacey. 35 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: I'm just bummed that Paul doesn't going to pick out 36 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 2: his own sound effects. Clearly Casey picked that out for him. 37 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, Paul, if you want to pick your own sound effects, 38 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 1: you completely have agency. Thanks for hanging out. I think 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: he should. 40 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: You know, I think we should chuck Casey's not around, 41 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: screw him, you know, just chuck it out. 42 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: How dare you? 43 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: WHOA? I have feelings Casey abandoned us for France. 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, Casey is living his other life and we'll 45 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: return across the pond. It's his best life. Also, he 46 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: is going to be back, so we need to be 47 00:02:43,919 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: careful what we say about it. I don't want to 48 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: angry Casey. He's not going to hear these. He doesn't 49 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 1: even edit him. 50 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,959 Speaker 2: He's not going to go back ridiculous to the show maker. 51 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 1: He might go back and just to see if we've 52 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: talked any trash. Hey, Casey, thanks for tuning in, love 53 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: you buddy, And if he hasn't listened, fellow ridiculous his 54 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Storyans do not snitch on us. We're being very serious. 55 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 1: But in our continuing streak of telling spookier tales as 56 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: we get closer and closer to Halloween, Noel, you and 57 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: I have touched on some gruesome practices such as cannibalism, 58 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: and we've touched on legends of monsters. But today we're 59 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 1: looking at real life monsters. Yeah, I mean, says you, Okay, 60 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: all right, Yes, we're talking about serial killers. And it 61 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:35,440 Speaker 1: is true that in the US often serial killers are 62 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: given this kind of infamy. They're almost like there's something 63 00:03:40,680 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 1: that's occasionally celebrated about them, which just terrible. 64 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially in like you know, in our industry, the 65 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: podcast world, where it's like we're just up to our 66 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: ears in true crime stories and I'm actually working on 67 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: a true crime story right now. That is a little different. 68 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 2: It's not so much celebrating the idea of the serial killer. 69 00:03:57,880 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 2: It's a little bit more of looking at what it 70 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 2: means to be human, what it means to have these impulses, 71 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: or to what the obsession with serial killers actually means 72 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:09,960 Speaker 2: to us as a culture, like why is it so fascinating? 73 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,240 Speaker 2: My theory is that it makes us feel better about ourselves. 74 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 2: It makes us be like, well, I'm not at least 75 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: I'm not that crazy. At least I've never actually murdered 76 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 2: multiple people and one of these just yell at my mom. 77 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: Yeah right, I'm not that bad. One of the factors 78 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:29,119 Speaker 1: in this almost deification at times is certainly the question 79 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:33,040 Speaker 1: that people end up asking themselves, would I be someone 80 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:38,599 Speaker 1: capable of this? Have? Could I understand that mentality? And 81 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: it's it's a deep and dark question. But luckily we're 82 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: not going too far into the psychology of that kind 83 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,520 Speaker 1: of process on today's show, although we do want to 84 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,119 Speaker 1: hear what you think about it. Feel free to write 85 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,360 Speaker 1: in We're ridiculous at how stuff works dot com. Today, Instead, 86 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:58,480 Speaker 1: we're delving into a question that has personally and just 87 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: speak for myself here. Person only haunted me for a while, 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 1: and that is this who was the world's first serial killer. Yeah, 89 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:10,680 Speaker 1: I actually. 90 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: Googled this ben like you do when you're when you're 91 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 2: trying to find things out. That's what we've been reduced 92 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: to is professional googlers. You know, I don't even know 93 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 2: how to use a card catalog. 94 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: I go to the library, or you know, I live 95 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,279 Speaker 1: next door to a library. You go there, Yeah, I 96 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: go there, go in there. 97 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: Yeah. 98 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 1: I love the libraries. I love libraries too. I'm kidding. 99 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 1: I know how to use the card cattalog. 100 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 2: Point being, I googled first serial killer like I'm doing 101 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: right now, and a name that commonly pops up is 102 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 2: a guy named Herman Webster Mudget known as H. H. Holmes, 103 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: and he is considered on paper at least to be 104 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 2: the first American serial killer, right right, Yeah, But the 105 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 2: story we have today is not about mister Mudget. 106 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: It's about a lady serial killer. 107 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 2: Yes, And the notion of the serial killer name is divisive, 108 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 2: and I think there's an issue with maybe calling this 109 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 2: person this person was more of an assassin, really. 110 00:06:01,839 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: Yes, more of a poisoner. I do want to stuff though, 111 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: because you mentioned HH Holmes. There's an amazing book if 112 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,200 Speaker 1: you haven't read it yet, The Devil in the White 113 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:16,119 Speaker 1: City by Eric Larsen. White City being Chicago. Yeah, hh 114 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: Holmes built a murder house. Gruesome, grim and gory stuff. 115 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,360 Speaker 1: But you're right, No, there's a question about what makes 116 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: someone a serial killer. And we've looked into this and 117 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:35,040 Speaker 1: previous episodes on other shows. This person, Locusta of gall 118 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 1: was a poisoner. She wasn't out there, you know, sneaking 119 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:41,720 Speaker 1: up behind people and cutting their throats. 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,760 Speaker 2: But one could argue, because of the benefits that she 121 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 2: enjoyed with the protections that we're going to get into 122 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 2: of that she experienced, that she may well have fallen 123 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: into a pattern where she just kind of did it 124 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:53,479 Speaker 2: for lulls. 125 00:06:54,480 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, definitely not a mentally healthy person. So this 126 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,279 Speaker 1: occurs in the first century a d. We don't know 127 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,120 Speaker 1: a ton of stuff. We don't know very much at 128 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: all about Lacusta's early life other than that she was 129 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 1: from Gaul, because that's what people called her, Lacusta from Gaul. 130 00:07:19,520 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: Maybe there were a ton of other Lacustas and there 131 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: was like Lacusta from Rome, Lacusta from Gaul. Maybe that's 132 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: how they differentiate. But Gaul itself was where northern Italy 133 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: and the Alps are, and it's got three geographical regions 134 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: around the time this happened. What I'm saying is it's 135 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:42,520 Speaker 1: a big place. It's France now, right, It's France and 136 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,360 Speaker 1: then northern Italy. So we bring this point up to 137 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: say that knowing just that she is from Gaul doesn't 138 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: really help us, right, Like. 139 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 2: What we do sort of know about her, though, is 140 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: that she grew up living off the land as it were, 141 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: or at least in terms of like some of the 142 00:08:02,680 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: the species of plants that were available in that region. 143 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: She was an active. 144 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 2: Forager and kind of got herself real familiar with some 145 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 2: of the uses of some of these herbs and flowers 146 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 2: and various things that could be used for good or 147 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: for ill. 148 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,240 Speaker 1: There we go, I like that dramatic noe yes so 149 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: or for ill for yeah, yeah, yeah we're good, Yeah, 150 00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: we got it. So this person living off the land 151 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,719 Speaker 1: has a encyclopedic knowledge of the different plants that grow 152 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 1: in her area and the different medicinal or nefarious uses 153 00:08:43,920 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 1: of these plants, people recognized talent, and there was an 154 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:56,839 Speaker 1: impress named Agrippina the younger who noticed that Lucusta had, 155 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,679 Speaker 1: as leam nice would say, a certain set of skills, 156 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,119 Speaker 1: and Acousta at this point was already pretty notorious. 157 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:07,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, how did her reputation precede her that it made 158 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 2: it up to such high levels of government and like 159 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 2: influencers or whatever. 160 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: Ben Well, they stopped calling her Lucusta from Gaul and 161 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 1: started calling her Lucusta the Poisoner, so that became her 162 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: new name. 163 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 2: Wasn't she also a Lacusta the sorcerer at some point? Yeah, yeah, 164 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 2: she's a woman of many names. 165 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: Crazy. 166 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 2: So she was already kind of like doing little hits 167 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 2: early on and even getting arrested. 168 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:34,559 Speaker 1: I believe she was. She was imprisoned when Agrippina approached 169 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:40,200 Speaker 1: her in a D fifty four, and Agrippina had a 170 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:44,839 Speaker 1: particular job for her. She said, Lucusta, I want you 171 00:09:45,280 --> 00:09:50,160 Speaker 1: to poison my husband Claudius. Oh real quick. 172 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: There's an amazing name given to her profession that combines 173 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:57,960 Speaker 2: her like you know, knowledge and know how with herbs 174 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 2: and their uses, with this idea of being an assassin 175 00:10:02,559 --> 00:10:06,480 Speaker 2: necro entrepreneur. Oh yeah, yeah, and this was coined, maybe 176 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 2: not coined, but used in this particular situation by doctor 177 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: Catherine Ramsland, who is a PhD in psychology. 178 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, there's first off, that's my favorite phrase we've learned recently. 179 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 1: And people did in a way respect this person's abilities. 180 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: There were multiple poisoners in the area in ancient Rome 181 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: at the time, but Lucusto was by far one of 182 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 1: the most well known and notorious. 183 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 2: We're also going to get into why, because it wasn't 184 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 2: just that she you know, anyone can slip somebody some 185 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:41,120 Speaker 2: poison or just like make poison or find it used 186 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 2: to buy it, right, But she was very wily. 187 00:10:43,960 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 1: And clever and crafty. 188 00:10:45,160 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 2: And then we'll get into the next story involving her 189 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 2: employ under Agrippina that becomes infinitely clear. 190 00:10:56,760 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 1: There's an excellent paper I found called Poisons, pois and 191 00:11:00,520 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: the Drug Trade in Ancient Rome by L. Cilliers and 192 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,880 Speaker 1: FP Retief at the University of the Free State, and 193 00:11:08,200 --> 00:11:12,239 Speaker 1: in this they give us some more details about exactly 194 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: how Lucusta came to be in the employee of Agrippina. 195 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 1: So she had been convicted of multiple crimes during the 196 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: reign of Claudius. She was a known repeat offender. She 197 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,439 Speaker 1: was bad medicine, which I guess works on a couple 198 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: of levels. But let's keep going. Agrippina, you see, was 199 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 1: the second wife of Cloudius, and she had a son 200 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,520 Speaker 1: named Nero, who I am sure is familiar to a 201 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: lot of ridiculous historians. Yeah. 202 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was the name of that app he used 203 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: to use to burn CDs back in the early two thousands. 204 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: Oh wow, deep cut. Yeah, it's because. But the reason 205 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 2: it was named that is because Nero was a bit 206 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 2: of a pyromaniac, and he was known for burning rome 207 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 2: to the ground to some degree playing a fiddle. There's 208 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: another story that we're going to get to that allegedly happened, 209 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 2: but it's fun to talk about, you know, legend and 210 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 2: myth can sometimes be more interesting than the true. 211 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, yes, agreed. So, as we were saying, Agrippino wants 212 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: her son, Nero, to be the new ruler, and she 213 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: like a lot yeah, like yes, a life or death 214 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: sort of desire, and she asked Lucusta to poison Uh. 215 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: Let's see, I was saying Cloudiu, let's say Claudius. Yeah, 216 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:36,880 Speaker 1: that sounds good. And she did it with It was 217 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,960 Speaker 1: almost like a heist because, as you can imagine, this 218 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,360 Speaker 1: guy has a lot of security and tasters. Even he's 219 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:46,720 Speaker 1: got a food taster named Halotus. So how what does 220 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 1: she do? How does she get past this? Do you 221 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: think that's where holatosis comes from? We can only hope. 222 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: I want I was wondering the same thing. 223 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, so she, like, I don't know, did how did 224 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 2: she exactly circumvent hallitus? It was a little weird, like 225 00:13:01,440 --> 00:13:04,200 Speaker 2: she did she bribe him to kind of get out 226 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 2: of the way. Is that what happened? 227 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: So the way she gets passed this is through the 228 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: use of poison mushrooms, which originally are given to the 229 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:19,120 Speaker 1: emperor by his food taster. But that doesn't quite work right, 230 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: I don't think so. 231 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, so I read that she Agrippina bribed this food 232 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,600 Speaker 2: taster to kind of get him out of the picture, 233 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 2: and then gave the mushrooms to her husband herself, because 234 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 2: apparently he was like a huge mushroom fan. 235 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: He really really liked the shrooms. I can relate to that, 236 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: And some people will say that are some sources, at 237 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,680 Speaker 1: least for report that the closest day the food taster 238 00:13:46,920 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: was sick, and then others will say no, Agrippina bribed 239 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: him to a linger. 240 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 2: Either way, he wasn't around, right, And the mushrooms went 241 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: directly into the hands of Claudius, who was apparently a 242 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 2: lethal drunk, and he did not kill him, but it 243 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:05,480 Speaker 2: made him convulse violently and have really bad tummy troubles. 244 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: Right mm hm. And so they wanted to induce vomiting. 245 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: That's right, that's right. 246 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:14,760 Speaker 2: So one source that I read has Agrippina herself feigning 247 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: concern for her, you know, convulsing husband and daintily sticking 248 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 2: this poison feather down his throat, because that was a thing. 249 00:14:25,320 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 2: They would use a feather to induce vomiting and stick 250 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,160 Speaker 2: it down your throat and tickle your your gullet or 251 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 2: whatever and then make you puke up the bad stuff. 252 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,480 Speaker 2: But instead this feather was laced with an even deadlier poison. 253 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 1: Oh and you know what, let me step back just 254 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 1: a second to clarify here. I think I've got the 255 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 1: turn of events correct. So the day before the poison, 256 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,320 Speaker 1: Lucousta poisons the bodyguard, and the bodyguard has to call 257 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,200 Speaker 1: out sick, and then Agrippina bribes the food taster, so 258 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: they removed two people from me. See, she's thinking several 259 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,800 Speaker 1: steps ahead of even us. Four D says track podcasters. 260 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: So dies because the feather has been poisoned. It's soaked 261 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: in strychnine. Right, And all of a sudden, immediately after 262 00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: the death of this emperor, Nero ascends to the throne, 263 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: and they recognize that Lucusta, she has a lot of potential, 264 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: especially if you are a power hungry emperor. Right. And 265 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: there's an interesting pattern that transpires here because we mentioned 266 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: she had been arrested more than once, multiple times. Twice 267 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: she was arrested for murder, but each time she was arrested, 268 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: a Roman senator bailed her out. People speculate it was 269 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 1: kind of a way of buying a future kill. 270 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, she had friends in high places, no question about it. 271 00:15:45,640 --> 00:15:47,720 Speaker 2: But the thing that's messed up here is that Agrippina, 272 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 2: who obviously was trying to set these events in motion 273 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 2: and get her boy Nero in the throne, she immediately 274 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 2: threw Lacusta under the bus. 275 00:15:56,920 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: Immediately immediately she said she poisoned my husband. I wonder 276 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:03,920 Speaker 1: if that was like a strategic moved totally, That's what 277 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 1: they call getting in front of getting ahead of it. 278 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I wonder if it was really like Lacusta 279 00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 2: was in on it, maybe where it's like, all right, 280 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,480 Speaker 2: I'm going to take the fall for this because I'm 281 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: already a known poisoner, or if she just was caught 282 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 2: completely unaware, whatever the case might be. Nero, who is 283 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 2: now a power hungry looney tune on his own, Yeah, 284 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 2: because Agrippina has really been jockeying for this stuff and 285 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: trying to manipulate events, and now she's got what she 286 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 2: wanted more or less. But Nero doesn't seem like he's 287 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 2: acquiescing to his mother anymore. He's kind of got his 288 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 2: own acts to grind, in the form of another potential 289 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,600 Speaker 2: heir to the throne, a fourteen year old who Claudius 290 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 2: had given it sired under a previous marriage, named Britannicus 291 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 2: right right. 292 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,920 Speaker 1: And Lucusta is in a terrible spot because the death 293 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:01,720 Speaker 1: sentence she receives is death by bludgeoning, and by the 294 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,480 Speaker 1: time Nero reaches out to her, she's been in jail 295 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: for several months. Here's the deal. He cracks in about 296 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: fifty five eighty or so. He frees Lacousta, the poisoner 297 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: at this point from prison, he gives her a bunch 298 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: of money, he gives her some land, and he says 299 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,920 Speaker 1: he's going to make her an aristocrat, publicly absolved of 300 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: all crimes she has committed or will ever commit. And 301 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: all she has to do is poison this fourteen year old. 302 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,280 Speaker 1: Britannicus is fourteen years old. Other all she has to 303 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:39,479 Speaker 1: do is poison this child. And reputedly allegedly, Acousta had 304 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: one question. She said, do you want it to be 305 00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:47,200 Speaker 1: fast or do you want it to be extended and painful? 306 00:17:47,440 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's nothing monstrous about that, like at all. 307 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: That's her concern about poisoning your fourteen year old. 308 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: Fast or protracted and painful. 309 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:00,200 Speaker 1: It's like, look, I work for you now, Nero. So 310 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 1: the story, No, some of the details made differ here, Nola. 311 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,040 Speaker 1: But here's here's what I heard. I heard that Nero 312 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: invited this fourteen year old Britannicus again I like the name, 313 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 1: to a huge party one of the palaces, and they 314 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 1: were passing around wine. Fourteen year olds drank wine at 315 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: that time, and Britannicus takes his sip from his wine 316 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: goblet and then starts convulsive. 317 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 2: Is this the one though, where like he had complained, 318 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 2: the wine was. 319 00:18:30,280 --> 00:18:32,680 Speaker 1: This is good? Oh yeah, this is the one. Yeah. 320 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: So apparently back in those days they would dilute wine 321 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 2: with hot water, so you'd be drinking hot wine that 322 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 2: does not sound very refreshing with dinner. That was common 323 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:44,160 Speaker 2: and I was not aware of this at all. And 324 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:48,240 Speaker 2: apparently Britannicus found his hot wine to be too hot, 325 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 2: so he wanted somebody to cool it on down for him. 326 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: And the tasters tasted his hot wine, they did not 327 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: taste the cold water that was added to it to 328 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 2: make it less hot. And that's of course where the 329 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 2: poison came into play again. Very very's, very very sharp, 330 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 2: very smart. 331 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 1: Hot wine is just such a weird phrase. Would you 332 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: guys like that on a T shirt? 333 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: Muld wine? 334 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: That mold wine sounds weird because you had some herbs, 335 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: it's the whole thing. 336 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, hot wine sounds like the wine has gone bad. 337 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 1: Here's another interesting aspect of the story. Apparently Britannicus might 338 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: have had epilepsy, so Nero was able to say, no, no, 339 00:19:37,320 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: don't mess with him. He's having an epileptic fit. 340 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:44,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, And apparently, like dinner went on as usual, with 341 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 2: the guests just kind of like awkwardly looking at this 342 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:49,080 Speaker 2: convulsing fourteen year old in the corner of the room 343 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:54,960 Speaker 2: and not wanting to offend the psychotic emperor, just went 344 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,800 Speaker 2: about their business, drinking their hot wine. 345 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: Drinking their hot wine. And it is a success. So 346 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: instead of accusing Acousta of murdering Britannicus the way Agrippina did, 347 00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: Nero says, you know, all right, done deal, here's your land, 348 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: here's your house, and treasures, treasures, pardons. 349 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: Yes, for all of the previous poisonings that she'd been 350 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:19,960 Speaker 2: accused of or convicted of. 351 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: Or what have you, clearing her name, impunity, indemnity, and 352 00:20:24,080 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 1: little cherry on top here an official title Imperial Poisoner. 353 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:32,800 Speaker 1: Nero even sets up a poisoning school. Yeah that's right. Yeah, 354 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,440 Speaker 1: and she was the head. Yeah exactly. 355 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: That's so brazen, though I wouldn't think that's something you would. 356 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: Maybe it is. Maybe it's sort of. 357 00:20:38,920 --> 00:20:40,679 Speaker 2: Like, hey, look at me, I got my own poison 358 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: or don't mess with me kind of. 359 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: Thing, I guess. So, yeah, like how much of it 360 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,239 Speaker 1: is a propaganda thing? But check this out. For the 361 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:55,360 Speaker 1: next fourteen years she is performing assassinations and poison poison 362 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:59,200 Speaker 1: what would you call it, poison operations, poison projects. Sure, yeah, 363 00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 1: she's doing that. And she has immunity from the law. 364 00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:07,120 Speaker 1: She's above the law. And she did she she did 365 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:09,879 Speaker 1: train women in the art of poisoning at her school. 366 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 2: We talked about this in the episode we did on 367 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 2: like a brief History of poisoning or arsenic I believe 368 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:19,399 Speaker 2: very gendered. Yeah, very gendered, and almost unfairly so it 369 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 2: became like a stereotype that was a little bit like 370 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: like the idea of that being like a woman's weapon 371 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: or something. 372 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 1: I think a little bit misogynistic. It's incredibly misogynistic. Yeah. 373 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: So she used over time a ton of different things, hemlock, belladonna, nightshade, arsenic. 374 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 1: What's what's this stuff you used to treat malaria? Queenine? Yeahine, cyanide, opium. 375 00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: Cyanide is a speculative thing. But the other stuff we 376 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,760 Speaker 1: know pretty much for sure. And she practiced the scientific method. 377 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 1: She would keep track of what worked and how, which 378 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: is why she asked questions like do you want a 379 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 1: painful slow down? Do you want something fast? Yeah? 380 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 2: I mean I've almost even seen her described as something 381 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 2: of a researcher, like you know, practicing that scientific method, 382 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: trial and error, seeing what would have the effects that 383 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,560 Speaker 2: she wanted and what would be the best substance to 384 00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:18,439 Speaker 2: use for a particular situation. I'm sure she had tons 385 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 2: of notes and data on this stuff. It'd be fascinating 386 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: to get a hold of absolutely. 387 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, So we have to wonder is that stuff lost 388 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:30,680 Speaker 1: to history? Is it still around somewhere? Would you want 389 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: to read it? If it is, we can say that 390 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:41,280 Speaker 1: although life went pretty well for this arch villain for 391 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,119 Speaker 1: a while, it did not end well for her. See, 392 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 1: Nero always carried this is so hard cornal. Nero always 393 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: carried a suicide poison kit that Lacusta had made for him. 394 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,959 Speaker 1: And when he was sentenced to death in sixty nine 395 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: eight and trying to escape his assassins, he forgot his 396 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,880 Speaker 1: suicide poison kit, so he killed himself with a knife, 397 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: and the protection that Lacousta enjoyed for so long was gone. 398 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:20,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and with that, her prospects weren't looking so good 399 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: because she was very much tied to this notion of Nero, 400 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 2: very similar to Caligula we talked about in the episode 401 00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 2: we did with christopherostiotis about non human candidates, where Caligula 402 00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,199 Speaker 2: the other insane I mean, I'm sure there was more 403 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: than one, but another insane Roman emperor of Note nominated 404 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: his horse to be a consul when he died a 405 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: lot of his crazy stuff and the people his hangers 406 00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:47,560 Speaker 2: on you know, did not look too good and did 407 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 2: not have the protection they needed to continue living the 408 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: lives that they were living. Such is the case with Lacusta, 409 00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,480 Speaker 2: because the people saw Nero as a dangerous force, as 410 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 2: a monster. Are a completely narcissistic, self involved megalomaniac who 411 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 2: didn't care anything about the common people and only wanted 412 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,639 Speaker 2: to like, you know, feed his lavish lifestyle and again 413 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,120 Speaker 2: actually burned part of Rome. 414 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:15,719 Speaker 1: Do you know the story about that? I'm not. Well, 415 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:20,719 Speaker 1: Here's here's how the story started. There the Great Fire 416 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,200 Speaker 1: of Rome, which is what that refers to. That myth 417 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: of him playing a violin while the city burned. It 418 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:35,120 Speaker 1: comes from two people, Setonius and Cassius Dio, who alleged 419 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,440 Speaker 1: that Nero didn't play a fiddle, but that he sang 420 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,920 Speaker 1: a song called the Sacavillium, dressed in stage like theater costumes, 421 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: while the city burned, and the idea of him playing 422 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: a fiddle itself is propaganda. It's meant to help criticize 423 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: Nero's earlier attempts to rewrite the Augustine models of governance 424 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,399 Speaker 1: and rulership. So it's okay, kind of like Napoleon not 425 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 1: really being short, that's right. And then the Great Fire 426 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 1: they were blaming. 427 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: It's not even one hundred percent confirmed, but many historians 428 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: do blame, or at least one in particular, a guy 429 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,440 Speaker 2: named Tacitus blamed Nero for starting a fire in order 430 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 2: to circumvent the Roman senates and to create like a 431 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,080 Speaker 2: hubbub so that he could, you know, usurp power and 432 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:21,560 Speaker 2: do whatever. 433 00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:25,880 Speaker 1: He wants and being a total class act. Tacitus said 434 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:29,120 Speaker 1: that Nero accused Christians of starting the fire to take 435 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: the heat off them, sort of like a like mother 436 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:33,359 Speaker 1: like son kind of thing, sort of a. 437 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 2: We didn't start the fire, it was always burning since 438 00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 2: the world was turning. 439 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely situation now the death of Laucusta also, want 440 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: to I want to correct. I think we said sixty 441 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:47,200 Speaker 1: nine eighty for the death of you were That's that's 442 00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,240 Speaker 1: not quite correct. It was in the late sixties a 443 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: d A Lacousta. When we get to her death, we 444 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,919 Speaker 1: run full on, face first into the realm of legend. 445 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: Big time we have. We've got two stories for you. 446 00:26:02,760 --> 00:26:04,800 Speaker 1: A bit of a tall tale, a bit of a 447 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 1: it's a long tail, for sure. It's a short story 448 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: with a long tail, a long neck, really, a long 449 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: neck really. So the first one, one of the more 450 00:26:14,640 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 1: commonly accepted, the more mundane stories, is that Lucusta had 451 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:25,440 Speaker 1: tried to escape or lay low and continue getting away 452 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:29,600 Speaker 1: with her murderous career, but the emperor who came after Nero, 453 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: Emperor Galba was was not having it, and Lucusta was 454 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:39,480 Speaker 1: chained up and dragged through the street and then just executed. 455 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 1: But there's another legend. 456 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a totally bonkers legend. It can't be true. 457 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. 458 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:49,000 Speaker 2: I don't know how you would even train inge you 459 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 2: raft to do this right, But I did hear. 460 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,360 Speaker 1: And this is a little gross, guys, this is very gross. Yeah. 461 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,680 Speaker 2: Supposedly, you know, according to this particular version of her 462 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:06,720 Speaker 2: demid eyes, Lacusta was uh smeared with vaginal secretions from 463 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 2: a giraffe, a female giraffe, and then. 464 00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 1: And then died the result of the activity. 465 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 2: The ensuing activity from a male giraffe who was trained 466 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 2: to do this thing. 467 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,840 Speaker 1: So the good news is that is we can say 468 00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:31,200 Speaker 1: with a high degree of certainty that that that probably 469 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: didn't have just logistically, man, I mean, it doesn't seem 470 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: but it's definitely it's in the record. It's it's a 471 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: it's it's a it's a. 472 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 2: Legend for sure, and it does bring and then torn 473 00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 2: apart by wild animals and then can't forget that that 474 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 2: that's that's huge. 475 00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: But that's a part of the whole thing. So we 476 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: looked into this where this claim would originate, and this 477 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: kind of stuff like its surfaces in the Encyclopedia of 478 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,199 Speaker 1: Serial Killers by guy named Michael Newton, at least in 479 00:27:59,240 --> 00:28:03,879 Speaker 1: the first version. But there's no precise date of death, 480 00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,520 Speaker 1: there's no precise location. There's not really in confirmation that 481 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: has happened. And when we talk about stories of people 482 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: living in this time, especially people who had a lot 483 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: of enemies, there's a ton of propaganda. There are a 484 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: ton of made up things that were meant to ridicule, 485 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: mock or vilify a particular person right or event or 486 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 1: government or institution. And the moral of the story is 487 00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:36,160 Speaker 1: I guess that eventually justice did catch up with Lacusta. 488 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:42,000 Speaker 1: Is she history's first documented serial killer? Well, it depends 489 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: on how you define it, because the term serial killer 490 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 1: didn't exist at the time. And then you know, if 491 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,720 Speaker 1: she's doing this as a job, she's essentially doing hits 492 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 1: on people. Does that make all mafia or yakuza assassins. 493 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: Does that make them serial killers or they just people 494 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: doing a job for monetary games. Well, that's the thing. 495 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 2: And we also don't know because of how free to 496 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,720 Speaker 2: go about her Mary poisoning way she was, if she 497 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,480 Speaker 2: didn't kind of get off on it a little bit, 498 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:15,920 Speaker 2: get some jolly's from it, right, because the definition of 499 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 2: a serial killer that we used today largely implies some 500 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 2: kind of abnormal release. I guess that you get from 501 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 2: doing it or some kind of like you're compelled to 502 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 2: do it, certainly not just a functional. 503 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:33,960 Speaker 1: Day job kind of situation. Right, Yeah, absolutely, And I 504 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: don't know's it's comforting to me that eventually justice was served, 505 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 1: but it is terrifying to think that someone could be 506 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 1: acting with impunity, literally above the law, and have it 507 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,520 Speaker 1: be known. Thing I'm sure, there are different operators for 508 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:55,000 Speaker 1: different countries intelligence agencies who do stuff like this, who 509 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: are you know, legally required at times to take lives? 510 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,560 Speaker 1: But for this to be so latent is surprising. And 511 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,680 Speaker 1: if even some of this stuff is true, this person 512 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: was a monster, a real monster. 513 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 2: I mean, the fourteen year old boy poisoning where nobody 514 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: would help him as he kicked and screamed and convulsed 515 00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 2: on the floor during a dinner party. 516 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:22,000 Speaker 1: Horrific. That's pretty horrific. So that that is the story 517 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: of Lucusta. And one thing that we are running into 518 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:33,920 Speaker 1: with our HALLOWEENI or Halloween Ish episodes is this strange 519 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,040 Speaker 1: thing at the end where we get to we get 520 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 1: to the conclusion of a tale and it's a real downer. 521 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: We went through something dark and grim. We've got to 522 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: bring the mood up, Noel, There's only one way to 523 00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: do it. And I think you know what it is, 524 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: boy do I? Ever? 525 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,560 Speaker 2: It's listener mail, Ben, and our first mail comes from 526 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,360 Speaker 2: a you me who writes, Hello, historians, I'm listening to 527 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: your episode. A dead pope goes to court and you 528 00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,360 Speaker 2: were wondering about mock ac sense in other English speaking 529 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: places now I'm American, so I don't know firsthand, but 530 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 2: much like with other foreign languages, a lot of English 531 00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 2: textbooks explore and show examples of English in different accents, 532 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:13,360 Speaker 2: up to and including foreign accents. I have one textbook 533 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 2: that I use with high level English as foreign language speakers. 534 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,400 Speaker 2: That's from the UK, and the listening features conversations and monologues. 535 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,520 Speaker 2: They want to showcase many accents. However, for me, it's 536 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:25,880 Speaker 2: incredibly obvious that all the voices are being done by 537 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,800 Speaker 2: English people that who are putting on accents, and they 538 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: do include that Italian accent with a character actually named Amario, 539 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 2: and an over the top Spanish accents for a character 540 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 2: asking a friend if he would like more paea. I 541 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: know it's something Americans do professionally too, so we're no better, 542 00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,880 Speaker 2: but I thought you might like to know about that. 543 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: Cheers a Umill. That's great, thank you for thank you 544 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 1: for writing in. You've written in a couple of times. 545 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:55,520 Speaker 1: We'll always love to hear from you. Absolutely, and we 546 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,200 Speaker 1: want to be very clear here that whenever we're doing 547 00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 1: of course it triulger without saying, let's say it. Whenever 548 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 1: we are doing funny voices or accents We're absolutely not 549 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: trying to be derogatory at all. We just we sometimes 550 00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: think we're funny. We're not even we're not even really 551 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,000 Speaker 1: so much making fun of Richard Nixon as we are 552 00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:19,560 Speaker 1: enjoying doing that voice, Yeah, making fun of ourselves. If 553 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,800 Speaker 1: you can't do that, then you know what good are you? 554 00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,440 Speaker 1: Exactly if you can't laugh at yourself. Here's a speaking 555 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:30,000 Speaker 1: of however, there's a good segue speaking speaking of being 556 00:32:30,080 --> 00:32:34,440 Speaker 1: derogatory or using pejorative language. We'd like to read a 557 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 1: short and sweet letter from Aaron m. Aaron, you write 558 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:39,720 Speaker 1: in and gave us, and you give us some nicknames 559 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:43,440 Speaker 1: here you say Vito Ben and Nul Sapien. I think 560 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 1: you all should do a segment on ridiculous historical insults. 561 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: I thought you would find the link below comical and entertaining. 562 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:55,360 Speaker 1: This is from Aaron in Chicago, and there are some 563 00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:59,239 Speaker 1: great insults in this in this source she sent us 564 00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,600 Speaker 1: from OX. I don't know if you have pulled this 565 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,800 Speaker 1: up or got a chance to look at it, but 566 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:09,040 Speaker 1: there's a flibberty gibbet flibbity gibbet Is it gibbit GiB 567 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:10,240 Speaker 1: I haven't, yeah. 568 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:12,080 Speaker 2: Because it's in Uh, it's in a song from the 569 00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 2: Sound of Music called nobody has a problem like Maria. 570 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,360 Speaker 2: How do you solve a problem like Marie? It's like 571 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,600 Speaker 2: a flibbity gibbet, a whin of the wisp, a clown, yeah, 572 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,600 Speaker 2: a shattering or gossiping person. 573 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: And then there's a fuzzle. Now that's what I don't know, 574 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: but I love it. 575 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 2: Who's it sounds like something from like a Doctor Seuss book. 576 00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 1: Someone who's behind the times, A fuzzle, a fuzzle. There's 577 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:40,959 Speaker 1: slobberty gullion, a slobbery or dirty fellow. Okay, kind of 578 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,840 Speaker 1: soiled or stained. There's this one sounds dirty. It's not 579 00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:49,240 Speaker 1: a curse word, but just sounds dirty. Shot clog, Like 580 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:54,920 Speaker 1: a shot clog is someone who's unwelcome in a social 581 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: situation but tolerated because he's paying the bill for everyone. 582 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: He's a shot clog. And I don't want to spoil 583 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: the surprise with more. Suffice to say, Erin, thank you 584 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: so much for sending us some of these cool, archaic, 585 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: ridiculous historical insults. Do you hear anything that particularly called 586 00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:14,880 Speaker 1: to you? 587 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,120 Speaker 2: No, not on that email. I actually haven't seen it. 588 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 2: I need to dig it up. Now because I am intrigued. 589 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,719 Speaker 1: Well, thank you to Aaron and Ayumi, and thank you 590 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: to everyone for joining us on this strange journey. Huge 591 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: shout out to our guest super producer Paul Deckett. 592 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 2: And even though he's abandoned us, we can still give 593 00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,920 Speaker 2: a shout out to Casey in absentia, and also to 594 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 2: Alex Williams who composed our theme. 595 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,760 Speaker 1: And thanks to our research associates, Eve's Jeffcote and Christopher 596 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,520 Speaker 1: Hassiurtis and you know, thanks to you, Ben, and thanks 597 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: to you Nols looking at you. Thanks to both of 598 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,800 Speaker 1: us for not poisoning people for a living. I think podcasting, 599 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: while not the most noble of professions, is better than 600 00:34:58,560 --> 00:34:59,280 Speaker 1: being a poisoner. 601 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,960 Speaker 2: Right now, Dari, this is no it's as noble as 602 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,880 Speaker 2: it gets. 603 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:06,440 Speaker 1: It's better than poisoning people. 604 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:10,760 Speaker 2: We're getting people through their shifts, man, Yeah, that's the ticket. 605 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,759 Speaker 2: They're night shifts, or they're day shifts, or you know whatever. 606 00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:16,160 Speaker 1: Shift, they're shifting shifts. 607 00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 2: Indeed, for more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 608 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.