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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and welcome to stuff

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Speaker 1: I've never told you a productive of iHeartRadio. And as

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Speaker 1: we enter the final stretch of twenty twenty five, the

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Speaker 1: holidays barreling down towards us, we're bringing back some of

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Speaker 1: our favorite episodes as classics for the year, and we

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Speaker 1: have a lot. We both chose some and the list

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Speaker 1: is quite long, so we get excited about some of those.

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Speaker 1: I'm still toying with the idea of the now that

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Speaker 1: terminus our fiction is over doing the playlist.

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Speaker 2: Gotta do that.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, we thought we'd bring back this

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Speaker 1: interview we did with Joe Piazza, and this was when

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Speaker 1: her book The Sicilian Inheritance had just come out and

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Speaker 1: she was also talking about her pots cast under the Influence. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we have not been able to meet up in person,

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Speaker 1: nor have a cheese and wine book hangout thing that

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Speaker 1: we've discussed, and it is a travesty, but I have

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Speaker 1: faith Joe. She's around, She's always doing stuff.

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Speaker 3: She's been busy. She's busy.

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Speaker 1: I see her name pop up all the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she's also we talk about childwives in here, which

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Speaker 1: is a big conversation that is still happening, and I

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Speaker 1: do think.

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Speaker 3: My mom asked me about this other day. She said,

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Speaker 3: do you still like reading?

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Speaker 1: You used to love reading, and I when it gets

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Speaker 1: cold outside it's rainy like it is now, I do

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Speaker 1: like like getting in a blanket and reading a good book.

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Speaker 1: So if you haven't read this yet, I would recommend,

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Speaker 1: And if you have any book suggestions, please let us know.

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Speaker 1: But in the meantime, please enjoy this classic episode. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to stephone never

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Speaker 1: told you plecture. iHeart radio, and today we are so

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Speaker 1: thrilled to once again be joined by friend of the show,

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Speaker 1: hopefully real life friend you can never meet in person.

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Speaker 4: I'd love that.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, me too, Joe Piazza. Welcome, Joe, Hi,

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Speaker 1: thank you for having me, Thank you for coming on.

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Speaker 1: You have been on the show before.

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Speaker 4: I have, I have. It has just it's been a minute,

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Speaker 4: and it's been too many minutes, I think, because I

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Speaker 4: love chatting with you and we should just be friends

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Speaker 4: in real life too. We should just do this in person,

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Speaker 4: like in a bar.

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Speaker 3: That would be fun, that would be a delight.

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Speaker 2: I was gonna say for me because I have I

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Speaker 2: was not on when you came on, but I'm like,

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Speaker 2: you have celebrity to me because I'm like, in our world,

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Speaker 2: podcast world, you're such a big name. So I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 2: we're gonna get the insight we wouldn't get like the

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Speaker 2: real pro tip.

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Speaker 4: Here because I've been doing this forever and mostly because

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Speaker 4: it's the only skill that I have. I can make

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Speaker 4: podcasts and I can write books, and in the zombie

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Speaker 4: apocalypse or the chat gpt apocalypse there I have nothing left,

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Speaker 4: Like I have no skills. I'll just be irrelevant.

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Speaker 3: To be honest, I don't know. Those are pretty big skills.

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Speaker 2: Like someone needs to tell the stories when all of

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Speaker 2: us but one person dies, you have to leave that story.

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Speaker 4: Just pick guys. I just pictured me running around chasing

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Speaker 4: zombies with like a microphone, with like my zoom microphone.

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Speaker 3: Be like, hey do you feel today?

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Speaker 4: How do you feeling at the end of the world.

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Speaker 3: You get on social media today, braids.

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Speaker 1: Braids, Well, oh my gosh, you have been on here before,

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Speaker 1: but it has been a minute. Yes, But for people

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Speaker 1: who don't remember because that was before the apocalypse or

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Speaker 1: missed that episode, can you introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Speaker 4: Hi listeners, I am Joe Piazza. As we mentioned, I've

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Speaker 4: been making podcasts for a while, for about seven seven

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Speaker 4: years now. I started out making the podcast Committed, and

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Speaker 4: now I produce Under the Influence, which is about all

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Speaker 4: of the ways that the Internet and social media are

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Speaker 4: ruining our lives on a daily basis. And I'm also

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Speaker 4: an author. I write novels about women doing adventurous things,

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Speaker 4: and the latest one is The Sicilian Inheritance, which is

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Speaker 4: just a delicious romp and murder mystery in Sicily that

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Speaker 4: comes out in April.

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Speaker 2: So the delicious romp makes me know that you really

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Speaker 2: are an author.

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Speaker 4: Exactly exactly, just a delicious romp everyone, of a murder mystery,

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Speaker 4: of a murder mystory.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, on that note, can you tell us more

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Speaker 1: about the book, because I was reading the description and

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Speaker 1: I'm very interested.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh, guys, it's so good. So I will

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Speaker 4: tell you this, and I don't say that lightly, but

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Speaker 4: The Sicilian Inheritance is the best book that I've ever written,

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Speaker 4: and I've written a lot of books. At this point,

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Speaker 4: I finally just sat down and I wrote the book

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Speaker 4: that I would want to read. I want to read

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Speaker 4: something that is fun, that is fun, but also that

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Speaker 4: doesn't make me feel gross or bad about myself. So

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Speaker 4: not just a bunch of smut, even though we've got

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Speaker 4: some smut in the book, but not not too much,

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Speaker 4: and that you walk away feeling kind of smart. So

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Speaker 4: it's set in two different timelines, and it's loosely based

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Speaker 4: on my own great great grandmother's murder in Sicily about

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Speaker 4: one hundred years ago, and the modern day protagonist returns

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Speaker 4: to Sicily to try to solve her own great grandmother's murder,

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Speaker 4: and they both are confronted with the nefarious forces of

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Speaker 4: the modern day mafia. And they're both strong, headstrong women

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Speaker 4: trying to make it in very male dominated field. Sarah

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Speaker 4: Fina from nineteen o eight is trying to be a doctor.

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Speaker 4: Sarah is a restauranteur who you know, she's a chef

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Speaker 4: in the very male restaurant world. And it's all set

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Speaker 4: on the beautiful, rugged, and sometimes slightly terrifying island of Sicily.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay, can you guys tell I'm still perfecting my

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Speaker 4: elevator pitch.

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Speaker 3: No, that was great, you got me hooked.

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Speaker 2: I'm like wait what, I have so many questions because also,

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Speaker 2: like you said, loosely and I was like, loosely based

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Speaker 2: on what how much?

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Speaker 3: How much of it?

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Speaker 4: So so loosely based actually, so it's really and we're

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Speaker 4: gonna we're about to get into podcast territory here. So

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Speaker 4: we all I knew was that my great great grandmother

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Speaker 4: Lorenza had been murdered back in Sicily. Her husband came

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Speaker 4: to America, all her children came to America, she stayed behind.

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Speaker 4: We didn't know why, maybe to sell land or because

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Speaker 4: it was safer for a while, and she was killed

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Speaker 4: before she came over. It's just family lore. And for

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Speaker 4: all I knew, it could have been made up because

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Speaker 4: my family's Italian American and their liars they just like

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Speaker 4: they make up stories, right, And so I didn't know.

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Speaker 4: But I was fascinated by this idea of this woman

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Speaker 4: alone in Sicily, and I based my book off that

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Speaker 4: without knowing anything else. But because I'm a massive ambition

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Speaker 4: podcast monster, I decided to create a true crime podcast

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Speaker 4: where I try to solve the actual murder. Oh that

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Speaker 4: we'll be coming out in March before Sicilian Inheritance. The

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Speaker 4: book comes out in April. And we we went back

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Speaker 4: to Sicily this summer to try to solve the murder,

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Speaker 4: and I'm closer to doing it that I know. I

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Speaker 4: found out so much but digging around in town records,

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Speaker 4: like we found like the entry for her death in

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Speaker 4: the book of deaths in this little Sicilian town. And

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Speaker 4: my producer, Kate Osborne came with me and she recorded everything.

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Speaker 4: So Sicilian Inheritance will be your nextavorite novel and also

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Speaker 4: maybe your next favorite podcast. Again, I'm just I'm a monster,

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Speaker 4: I'm a content monk.

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Speaker 2: I let it know that was coming me. My next

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Speaker 2: question was like, did you actually try to solve this murder?

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Speaker 2: And here we are with a great teaser, and I'm

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Speaker 2: so sad to have to wait until next year.

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Speaker 3: But then as an adventure, it's.

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Speaker 4: It's actually an adventure, and I think, I mean, I

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Speaker 4: genuinely think all of us kind of want an adventure

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Speaker 4: right now. Life has been weird, so weird lately that

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Speaker 4: I just wanted to create some things that would bring

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Speaker 4: people joy and the right amount of escapism, and I

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Speaker 4: think that we managed to do it. So I'm just

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Speaker 4: I'm really excited about about these these things coming into

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Speaker 4: the world.

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Speaker 3: That's amazing.

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Speaker 1: So I have I have many follow up questions about that,

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Speaker 1: but one of them, oh, I will. So you have

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Speaker 1: written a lot of books. You have written a lot

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Speaker 1: of books in a lot of different genres. How was

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Speaker 1: this different? You've said like, it was nice to get

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Speaker 1: to write something you really want to read. But also

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Speaker 1: every time I watch like any kind of mystery or

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Speaker 1: a murder mystery, I'm always like, how did did you

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Speaker 1: know the ending? When you started out like leaving all

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Speaker 1: these clues?

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Speaker 3: No, no, I please explain.

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Speaker 4: So I am not woo woo about anything, except now,

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Speaker 4: after doing all of this research, I think I may

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Speaker 4: be like a Sicilian witch or something because some of

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Speaker 4: the stuff that I wrote without in the novel again

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Speaker 4: fiction fiction. It's the Sicilian Inheritance is fiction. But then

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Speaker 4: when I started reporting out my great great grandmother's murder,

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Speaker 4: some of it was the same. Isn't that creepy? It's creepy.

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Speaker 4: But so I when I write, and sometimes I co

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Speaker 4: write with another person, my co writer, Christine Pride, and

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Speaker 4: we've done two novels together. We are not like them

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Speaker 4: and you were always mine and she is an outliner.

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Speaker 4: I drive her crazy because I won't outline. I have

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Speaker 4: a general idea and then I sit down and I

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Speaker 4: write two thousand words, and I don't know what's gonna

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Speaker 4: happen next, like have a vague But with the Sicilian

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Speaker 4: Inheritance especially, I did not know the ending, like it

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Speaker 4: just popped into my head. And I'm only woo woo

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Speaker 4: about the fact that I think that ideas like come

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Speaker 4: when you just like start putting in the work, when

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Speaker 4: you start creating the characters in your head, and it did.

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Speaker 4: It just started coming to me in bits and pieces.

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Speaker 4: And the ending is a real banger. But it was

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Speaker 4: not where I thought we were going. Okay, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: so I know. But most writers that I know like

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Speaker 4: to plot and outline the whole thing and like really

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Speaker 4: know exactly what's gonna happen. It does drive my editors

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Speaker 4: crazy sometimes too, because they're like, so, what's gonna happen

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Speaker 4: happen at the end of this book that we just bought,

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Speaker 4: And I'm like, I don't know. I don't know.

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Speaker 3: Your guests is as good as there.

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Speaker 4: Will be an ending, but I don't know what it is.

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Speaker 4: They're like, Okay, we have a lot of faith in you.

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Speaker 2: Okay, okay, Well by now, yes, obviously, because you've written

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Speaker 2: a ton of books that have been successful.

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Speaker 3: So I'm sure they're like, yeah, okay, we know where

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Speaker 3: to get it.

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Speaker 4: We don't want this process, but we know very anxious

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Speaker 4: with this process, but we will get it.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting because I sort of do both. Samantha knows.

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Speaker 1: I'm a planner, like I plan, I outline, but a

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Speaker 1: lot of times when I write, I'm like, you just

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Speaker 1: have to write and see what happens.

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Speaker 4: That's the thing, right, Like you don't know what I

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Speaker 4: just I think that there's magic in it. I really do.

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Speaker 4: I think there's magic in the process and that the

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Speaker 4: reader can also kind of feel that magic. But I

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Speaker 4: will say that I read some novels and I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 4: I can tell you were like sticking to a script,

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Speaker 4: like you had you had an idea of where this

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Speaker 4: is going, and like you just wrote to it. And

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Speaker 4: that's fine, but they do feel a little less magical

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Speaker 4: to me, right.

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Speaker 1: But then on the other side, you can read things

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Speaker 1: and you're like, you clearly had no plan and thought

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Speaker 1: this was such a moving ending, but there was nothing

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Speaker 1: that led up to it.

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Speaker 4: But it didn't deliver, didn't.

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Speaker 3: So it's a balance. It's a balance, its balance.

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Speaker 4: Although I will say so I have a lot of

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Speaker 4: the book is out with early readers right now and

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Speaker 4: we've got I've got a lot of people telling me

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Speaker 4: they end up in tears, and I'm like, good, that's

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Speaker 4: what I want to make you cry. I want to

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Speaker 4: make you cry, so.

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Speaker 3: One of those that's fun, like.

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Speaker 4: A good cry at the end. Right, I was invested

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Speaker 4: in this and so I had a good cry. It

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Speaker 4: also makes people hungry, so it's so filled with food.

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Speaker 4: And when I went I wrote it. I wrote most

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Speaker 4: of it before I went back to Sicily this summer.

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Speaker 4: But the only things that I added, and I kept

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Speaker 4: pulling it back from my editor, were more and more food,

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Speaker 4: Like I would have one meal, like, oh my gosh,

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Speaker 4: we have to put these like buttery delicious, like cornetto's

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Speaker 4: in there. And she's like really, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 4: it matters. So I'm telling people like I'm issuing a warning.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, don't read this book if you don't have

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Speaker 4: access to food, like right next to you, like cheese,

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Speaker 4: a nice cheese plate, because you will be starving the

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Speaker 4: second you start reading it.

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Speaker 3: You're gonna eat all things.

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Speaker 2: Well when you would described it as a delicious romp.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask, is it including a lot

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Speaker 2: of the scriptures for Italian food, because that's like the

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Speaker 2: first thing that pops into my head.

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Speaker 3: But I was like, no, no, no, that's too clear.

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Speaker 4: It is so and that's the thing. I'm like, you

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Speaker 4: know what, I love it filled with food, filled with wine.

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Speaker 4: There's like a sexy Italian dude who's kind of mysterious,

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Speaker 4: like it's got all of the things that you want.

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Speaker 3: And from an Italian, I'm like, I just want.

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Speaker 4: To deliver, man, And you're like, I'm kind of like,

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Speaker 4: this is what I hope for. You're gonna get it right.

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Speaker 2: And if it's really well written that the scripture is

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Speaker 2: going to make you want that pasta immediately, Like I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna need a fly to Sicily.

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Speaker 3: This actually that she's writing about.

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Speaker 4: Well, so when I do all my book clubs, because

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Speaker 4: I've also i mean, I've written a lot of books

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Speaker 4: and I've done a lot of book events and they

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Speaker 4: can be really boring, and I don't want to do

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Speaker 4: boring book events anymore. So I'm going to be doing

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Speaker 4: Sicilian wine tasting, cannoli making, pasta making classes or just

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Speaker 4: events where we just eat and we could talk about

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Speaker 4: the book, but we don't have to. We could just

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Speaker 4: eat food and stare at each other.

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Speaker 2: You're going to give us a personal invice. You're there friends?

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Speaker 4: Yes, yes, because we're friends in real life. Now exactly,

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Speaker 4: I'm just nothing. I think now that in my approach

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Speaker 4: to middle age, I have decided I'm not going to

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Speaker 4: do things that don't bring me joy anymore, and like

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Speaker 4: just standing in front of a crowd and reading a

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Speaker 4: book and hate it. So I want to stand in

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Speaker 4: front of a crowd and eat a cannoli or eat

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Speaker 4: nine canolis.

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Speaker 3: That's what makes me happy as you talk about the book.

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Speaker 2: Maybe maybe not as it would make everybody else happy

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Speaker 2: as well. Yeah, exactly, know who doesn't want a cannoli?

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Speaker 4: Everyone wants a like what brings you, what brings my

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Speaker 4: reader's joy? Food? So yes, I will bring that to them.

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Speaker 4: Blows my mind that ninety percent of the events that

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Speaker 4: I have, either they've been my events or I've gone

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Speaker 4: to other people's events, ninety percent of them don't have

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Speaker 4: any wine. And I'm like, this is ridiculous. No one

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Speaker 4: wants it's a crime. It's like with a crime, I

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Speaker 4: compare it to children's birthday parties that don't have adult beverages. Oh,

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Speaker 4: I go to a lot of them because I've been

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Speaker 4: breeding for seven years. So I have a six year old,

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Speaker 4: a four year old, and an almost a year old.

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Speaker 4: And when I show up at a kid's birthday party

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Speaker 4: at a play space or something, they don't have wine

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Speaker 4: for me, And like, what do you want me to

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Speaker 4: do for an hour?

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Speaker 1: Here?

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Speaker 4: I don't know any people, and I just stare at

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Speaker 4: my children's sober makes small.

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Speaker 3: Of our parents.

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Speaker 4: I'm not here for that. I am not here for that.

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Speaker 4: I have my four year old's birthday party this week

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Speaker 4: which we we just go in the park across the street.

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Speaker 4: Like I will not, like you know, throw like a

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Speaker 4: bar MITZVLL level party for these children at this point,

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Speaker 4: but I will make a signature of cocktail for that event.

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Speaker 4: I will, indeed for the grown ups, for the grownuts.

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Speaker 3: It's really just.

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Speaker 4: And a poloma is what it's going to be.

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Speaker 3: The three piece, three piece, very important.

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Speaker 2: Delights, so important, and that's the one I would go to.

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Speaker 2: Like I typically don't go to gatherings in general if

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Speaker 2: they have children, I'm not probably not gonna come just

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Speaker 2: because I'm like, I don't know what to do there,

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Speaker 2: but if they offer drinks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and I hate it, but it's like.

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Speaker 4: You don't know about the bar off we with our wedding,

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Speaker 4: we decided to keep the bar open during the vows.

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Speaker 4: So so Glenness McNicol, who you know is like my

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Speaker 4: collaborator on so many things and my best friend. She

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Speaker 4: married us. But she was encouraging people. She's like, if

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Speaker 4: you'd like to go get some more champagne. Cool, Like

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Speaker 4: this is part of it isn't really for you, it's

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Speaker 4: for them. So like you know, mill about get some

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Speaker 4: more drinks. And like people still say it was the

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Speaker 4: best wedding they've ever been to.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a great.

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Speaker 2: The first so formal host Kristin Conger. I went to

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Speaker 2: her wedding and they had a pre bar opening so

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Speaker 2: that we wouldn't just stand there and we would have

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00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,720
Speaker 2: drinks when they were walking down the all was like, yes, this,

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Speaker 2: I'm in favor, Yes, let's have it.

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Speaker 4: Yes exactly. I had champagne while we were sitting up there.

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Speaker 4: Well yeah, yeah. We did a Quaker ceremony. We're not Quakers.

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Speaker 4: I'm just a fan of them. And in a Quaker ceremony.

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Speaker 4: We brought in all of my favorite cultural and religious jopes.

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Speaker 4: Like we we did we like sat on chairs and

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Speaker 4: people hoisted us up, and we're definitely not Jewish, but

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Speaker 4: there's so many Jewish friends that they were so skilled

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Speaker 4: at it that they're like, yeah, of course we want

345
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Speaker 4: to do this at your wedding.

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Speaker 3: Will help.

347
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Speaker 4: But we borrowed parts of the Quaker ceremony where anyone

348
00:18:06,760 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 4: can stand up at any time and say anything about you.

349
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Speaker 4: So it's like the whole crowd does your vows with you,

350
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Speaker 4: and it's it's really weirdly beautiful, like and people say

351
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Speaker 4: the wackiest things, like my husband's much older half brother

352
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,120
Speaker 4: so up and was like I will always help both

353
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Speaker 4: of you sort out your frequent fire miles. And I

354
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:33,240
Speaker 4: was like, thank you. That is also appreciated. Appreciate it,

355
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Speaker 4: Like I feel like a welcome member of your family now.

356
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Speaker 3: That's amazing.

357
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Speaker 2: Like this entire wedding sounds like another adventure that I'm like,

358
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:45,080
Speaker 2: did you write about this as well as part of

359
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Speaker 2: like a novel, because it should be.

360
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Speaker 4: I did write. I wrote about it. I wrote the

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Speaker 4: book How to Be Married, where I traveled around the

362
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,679
Speaker 4: world asking for advice on how to be a married

363
00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,000
Speaker 4: person because it's so weird, And I did. I wrote,

364
00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:01,040
Speaker 4: I wrote a little bit about about the wedding in there,

365
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:02,520
Speaker 4: but it was it was just a good wedding. It

366
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 4: was just fun. Again, like, why would you do something

367
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:05,480
Speaker 4: that's not going to be fun?

368
00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:08,000
Speaker 3: Yes, I don't get it, agreed.

369
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:11,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, And now I'm I'm kicking myself that I've never

370
00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 1: had a night where I just have a cheeseplate and

371
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,119
Speaker 1: wine read a book. Why have I not done that?

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Speaker 1: That sounds amazing?

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Speaker 4: Exactly exactly. You deserve that. Everybody deserves that. If I'm

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Speaker 4: just gonna I'm gonna start randomly when people start pre

375
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Speaker 4: ordering the book, if they let me know, if they like,

376
00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:29,639
Speaker 4: send me a receipt, I'm going to make sure that

377
00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:31,480
Speaker 4: a cheese flight is delivered to their house when the

378
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 4: book gets delivered, Like, yeah, pre order it, and then

379
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,639
Speaker 4: you'll be like, oh my gosh, this cheese plate from

380
00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 4: do Bruno brother just arrived. I guess it's time to

381
00:19:43,359 --> 00:19:46,359
Speaker 4: sit down and read the Sicilian Inheritance and eat some cheese.

382
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 2: That sounds so okay now that I needs me want

383
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 2: to order like five so I can get five.

384
00:19:54,560 --> 00:19:54,680
Speaker 1: I have.

385
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,680
Speaker 3: It's a special delivered from the author because.

386
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Speaker 1: I've got exactly Oh my gosh, I'm so excited about it. Honestly,

387
00:20:15,040 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: so with the book.

388
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 3: Has any of your family read it yet? Yeah?

389
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:22,399
Speaker 4: They have. My mom has read it. She just I

390
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:25,399
Speaker 4: just gave her. She stole a galley from my house.

391
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,080
Speaker 4: I was I had limited galleys and one was missing,

392
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,880
Speaker 4: and I'm like, Mom, did you just take this? And

393
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,119
Speaker 4: she's like, yeah, I did it. I'm like fine, but

394
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:37,119
Speaker 4: like I might have to reuse it. I might have

395
00:20:37,119 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 4: to give it out, like you know, maybe don't eat

396
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:40,840
Speaker 4: cheese with your copy of the book.

397
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,040
Speaker 2: But no wine, white wine only.

398
00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,679
Speaker 4: So she's texting me, she's texting me constantly to be like,

399
00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 4: oh my god, this is really good. And I'm like,

400
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 4: why do you sound surprised in all of your texts

401
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:53,840
Speaker 4: and I know how to how to write a book

402
00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,880
Speaker 4: at this point. But then also she's like, wait, wait,

403
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:00,919
Speaker 4: is this person Cheero that guide we had when we

404
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:03,120
Speaker 4: were in Sicily, And I'm like, no, it's a totally

405
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 4: different person. It's fiction. It's a novel. But she likes

406
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:09,520
Speaker 4: it so far. She's she's very into it. And my

407
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:11,439
Speaker 4: family is also very into the fact that I'm solving

408
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,639
Speaker 4: the murder because all of them are on the podcast.

409
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 4: I invited all of them to come on the podcast

410
00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 4: to tell their version of the story, all of which

411
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 4: are completely different. And my uncle Jimmy is the best

412
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:27,159
Speaker 4: because he starts out our conversation saying, Joanna, I can't

413
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,359
Speaker 4: believe that you're you're digging up these old wounds and

414
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 4: this could be this could be really dangerous, Like I

415
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:39,239
Speaker 4: can't go back to Sicily and end this vendetta. And

416
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,680
Speaker 4: I'm like, what are you talking about, Uncle Jimmy. You're

417
00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:44,880
Speaker 4: a like eighty year old judge in Iowa. You're not

418
00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:49,000
Speaker 4: going to Sicily to do anything.

419
00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh my goodness. Yeah, he's sounding full gangster at

420
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:52,960
Speaker 3: this point.

421
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 4: Because he still smokes like nine packs of Marborough's a

422
00:21:55,560 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 4: day again judge in Iowa, and yeah, and the whole family. Everyone.

423
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 4: Some people are like, well, she was definitely a witch

424
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 4: and that's why she was killed. And other people are like, well,

425
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,480
Speaker 4: it was the mafia and that's what happened. It was

426
00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:12,239
Speaker 4: a hit job. But I also I was insistly during

427
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,960
Speaker 4: the research. But I also worked with Ellis Island and

428
00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 4: they're amazing. Their researchers are bad, so they could pull

429
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,280
Speaker 4: like the exact dates and shit manifests for when all

430
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:26,640
Speaker 4: of her children came and her husband, And they also

431
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,440
Speaker 4: checked to see if her husband went back, to see

432
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:30,399
Speaker 4: if maybe he was the one that murdered her. Like

433
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 4: there were all these little things and they got like

434
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,440
Speaker 4: weirdly invested in it too, Like by the end there, well,

435
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 4: I think this might be what happened.

436
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:41,840
Speaker 3: Everybody has a theory.

437
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,520
Speaker 4: I love that everybody has a theory, and like I

438
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 4: still I have a couple of theories where Kate, my producer,

439
00:22:47,760 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 4: and I are going to go back I think in

440
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 4: January and like do some final digging with the police.

441
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 4: Reports are really hard to find if they exist at all,

442
00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 4: but they might because Italians love keeping records. The coolest

443
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 4: thing really was we found what is their book of deaths,

444
00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,600
Speaker 4: which is a handwritten interesting with every death recorded in

445
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 4: the town. It doesn't say how they died, that's the thing.

446
00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,399
Speaker 4: But there are two books of deaths, and I'm not

447
00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 4: giving too much away here. One book is for people

448
00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 4: that died in the home of natural causes, and the

449
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:17,760
Speaker 4: other book is for people that died outside of the

450
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,800
Speaker 4: home of unnatural causes and she was in the second book.

451
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so there is a bigger mystery.

452
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, so she was definitely definitely was not natural causes, Like, yeah,

453
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,440
Speaker 4: there's there is the mystery is indeed there. So that's

454
00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 4: what we're and we know where she died. We went

455
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 4: to the place where she died.

456
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 3: Okay, did I miss it? Did you actually solve it.

457
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,720
Speaker 4: Or I'm still on the road. I'm still on the

458
00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 4: road to solving it. No, So we're going back in

459
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,960
Speaker 4: January multiple seasons. I think that we're going to have

460
00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 4: some good answers in this first season that'll start in

461
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,879
Speaker 4: March for multiple seasons. I do want to do other

462
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 4: family mysteries though, because I feel like all so many

463
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,640
Speaker 4: families have unanswered weird questions that like if we can

464
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:00,000
Speaker 4: like solve family mysteries for them, that could be fun.

465
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:01,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

466
00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: I mean, this is like intriguing and fascinating journey, especially

467
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 2: since it's your great grandmother.

468
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 4: On the top of that, and we found so many

469
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,400
Speaker 4: crazy cool pictures of her too, like she looks them

470
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:15,760
Speaker 4: and she looks like a bad like she looks like

471
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 4: she could kill you.

472
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 3: With her eyes. So maybe she was a witch, which

473
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 3: is even.

474
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 4: Better she was a witch. I know, I know.

475
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,680
Speaker 2: If you find out that she's a witch, you have

476
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,920
Speaker 2: to take that taddle on like somehow put that.

477
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:31,520
Speaker 4: Into business cards. No shame anywhere, witch.

478
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: Thank you? Uh in the lineage of witches.

479
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:38,760
Speaker 4: We're good exactly exactly.

480
00:24:39,960 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 3: That's amazing.

481
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:43,880
Speaker 2: Well, I'm excited to hear both the podcasts and read

482
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 2: this book.

483
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 3: Phenomenal.

484
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:48,680
Speaker 2: I'm also excited for the cheese plate in the wine

485
00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,160
Speaker 2: that goes with both and showing up.

486
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,919
Speaker 4: At your house and like cozy pajamas with both of

487
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:53,960
Speaker 4: them and be like, heyes.

488
00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:55,480
Speaker 3: Please, it's time to read.

489
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:58,760
Speaker 2: That's the way, and he does that. She'll just show

490
00:24:58,800 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 2: up with pajama pants and I.

491
00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 4: Will do you really do?

492
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:01,080
Speaker 2: Like do you?

493
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 4: Kimmy gibbler? I call it gibblering from full House, where

494
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 4: you just show up unexpectedly at a friend's house.

495
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 3: Always in pajama pants. Pajamas, so maybe last night.

496
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:16,240
Speaker 1: And when when I was a kid, my friends and

497
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:19,600
Speaker 1: I used to do that. We would just like read together. Yeah,

498
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 1: so I would be very into it.

499
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, yes, something would surprise me if I saw

500
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 2: you at the door are like hey, I'm here.

501
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,480
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, come on, Okay, great.

502
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,159
Speaker 4: Let's sit on the couch. All I want to do

503
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,080
Speaker 4: now is sit on the couch with my friends or

504
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 4: have low key hangs with my friends. One of my friends,

505
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 4: I ran Intoor. We were both working at a coffee

506
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,720
Speaker 4: shop the other day, just like I'm gonna get my

507
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,959
Speaker 4: nis done. Do you want to get your nails done?

508
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,560
Speaker 4: I'm like, yeah, I do, And then we just like

509
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 4: walked around into errands together and that was really fun.

510
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 3: A perfect day.

511
00:25:52,119 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was a perfect day.

512
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 3: It's nice and I love that I have a friend.

513
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:57,840
Speaker 3: There's so much.

514
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,800
Speaker 2: I'm again very excited about this book. I'm very excited

515
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 2: about this whole concept because it's such deep, like such

516
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 2: a deeper meaning. It's not even though it's fiction, is

517
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,159
Speaker 2: bigger than fiction. Yeah, that means it's just expanding, it

518
00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: continues to grow. But kind of in general, again, like

519
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 2: I said before, you are to me a kind of

520
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 2: the celebrity podcaster in my world because I knew your

521
00:26:17,359 --> 00:26:19,800
Speaker 2: name where I jumped in, I knew about your shows.

522
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: Committed it was an amazing show. It was so amazing, Like,

523
00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:26,480
Speaker 2: the concept was so amazing.

524
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 4: People, the people were so good.

525
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: You as a podcaster, you really do bring in some

526
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 2: brilliant adventures in itself, like in these conversations that you have,

527
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: including what you're working on today right now, which is

528
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:39,639
Speaker 2: Under the Influence.

529
00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 3: Can you talk a little bit about that podcast.

530
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, Under the Influence is also also a ton of fun.

531
00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 4: I started it three years ago when I had my

532
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,920
Speaker 4: second baby, or I'm like, oh my gosh, it must

533
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,159
Speaker 4: be four years ago because I'm having her Pinata's Paloma's

534
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 4: birthday party tomorrow. Yeah, four years ago. Wow. So she

535
00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 4: wouldn't sleep, she was a really crappy sleeper, and I

536
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: would hold her because all I could do at night

537
00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:07,600
Speaker 4: while she was screaming is hold her. But then my

538
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,879
Speaker 4: only appendage available was my thumb. So I'd also be

539
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 4: scrolling through Instagram because I'm a very involved in present parent,

540
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 4: and I would all I was getting served on Instagram

541
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 4: were picture perfect images of influencer moms in their beautiful

542
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 4: white linen dresses with they're all white houses. None of

543
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:30,119
Speaker 4: them were covered in pee or pugh or anything, and

544
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,399
Speaker 4: like their kids were all very well behaved. And my

545
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:37,440
Speaker 4: kids have feral animals. And I wanted to start reporting

546
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 4: on it because I was so confused by it and

547
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:43,880
Speaker 4: the original intention of Under the Influence was to expose

548
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 4: this world of mom influencers to be like, this is

549
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 4: all both and some of it is. And we discovered

550
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,239
Speaker 4: that in the first season some of the world of

551
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 4: mom influencers and influencers in general is absolutely bullshit, but

552
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 4: we learned a lot more about what it means. And

553
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 4: so many women are dropping out of the workforce because

554
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 4: the workforce is not kind to women and mothers and

555
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,640
Speaker 4: becoming content producers so they can be entrepreneurs and work

556
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,439
Speaker 4: for themselves. And we learned a lot about how the

557
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 4: algorithm in all social media platforms is constantly manipulating all

558
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:19,919
Speaker 4: of our brains and telling us what to think and

559
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,159
Speaker 4: telling us how they think we should be. And so

560
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,399
Speaker 4: the podcast just expanded from there into looking at all

561
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 4: kinds of digital influence, all kinds of social media, everything

562
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,600
Speaker 4: from teacher Graham to nurse Graham to Sobriety Graham. And

563
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 4: we relaunched two months ago, going from seasonal to weekly

564
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 4: and now do two shows a week of Under the Influence,

565
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 4: and we're just doing interviews with everyone from tradwives who

566
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 4: are conservative Christian influencers who portray womanhood as these ideals

567
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 4: from the nineteen fifties to experts who will tell you

568
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 4: how to talk to your kids about sexting and in

569
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 4: a really empowering way, and it's so fun. I learned

570
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,600
Speaker 4: something in every episode. And I think it's really important

571
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: for us to cover influence and cover social media the

572
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 4: same way that journalists would cover anything else, because it

573
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 4: impacts way more of our lives than any of us

574
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: want to admit. In the same way that I used

575
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 4: to be a celebrity journalist, and I thought that job

576
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 4: was very important because celebrities like do have such a

577
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 4: huge impact on humanity and culture and what people think

578
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 4: that they deserve a check and balance system, and I

579
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 4: think influencers deserve that now too, So we're trying to

580
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,640
Speaker 4: do that on the show with an also a dose

581
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 4: of joy and hilarity. So I also recommend people eat

582
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 4: cheese while they're listening to Under the Influence.

583
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 3: Everything with Jesus, everything with cheese is better.

584
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 4: We should let's make T shirts that say.

585
00:29:53,800 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 3: That, yes, our friends, that you get us. I think

586
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,600
Speaker 3: you do, I think you do.

587
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:04,480
Speaker 4: Everything is better what she's I'm going to make one

588
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 4: right now.

589
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 3: I need this, I need it, you know.

590
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,200
Speaker 2: Before we kind of jump because there's other things, Like

591
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 2: you said, so many things that I want to talk about,

592
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,200
Speaker 2: including your Halloween costume. But before that, can you kind

593
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 2: of break down mom influencing a little bit because you'd

594
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 2: talk about it and just kind of how we got

595
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:25,720
Speaker 2: here because you tried to expose it.

596
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: What is it? And how are we here?

597
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, mom influencing And it started to get really big

598
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 4: about eight years ago. Mom blogging has been a thing

599
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 4: since the beginning of the Internet, and in fact, it

600
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 4: was the mom bloggers that were among the pioneers blogging.

601
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 4: And there were women who were writing really openly and

602
00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 4: honestly about the good but a lot of the bad

603
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 4: of motherhood and kind of breaking down the stigmas of

604
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 4: how difficult it can be to be a mom, and

605
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 4: their sites took off like wildfire, and they were really

606
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,640
Speaker 4: am some of the most popular bloggers out there. And

607
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 4: I don't think they get enough credit for that. In

608
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 4: the early in the histories of early blogging and the

609
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 4: early Internet, I think mom blogging gets very ignored. And

610
00:31:11,840 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 4: then when social media came around, it started morphing into

611
00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 4: less words and more images and particularly beautiful images, and

612
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 4: Instagram was launched with the intent of being a beautiful

613
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 4: photography app. It was supposed to be the vogue of

614
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 4: photography apps. That's what the ten year old male founders

615
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 4: wanted it to be. So mom blogging in a lot

616
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 4: of ways. The trajectory then moved into this imagery of

617
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 4: motherhood that wasn't as much talking about the things that

618
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 4: are difficult, but just posting beautiful pictures of it, and

619
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: in addition to those pictures, adding branded content to it,

620
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 4: so selling us things, selling us those beautiful linen nursing dresses,

621
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: selling us all manner of organic pacifiers and blankets and

622
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 4: things none of your kids actually need. Because kids would

623
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 4: be happy sleeping in a box and playing with a

624
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 4: box is my best wisdom as now a mom of three.

625
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:12,320
Speaker 4: And like literally they will sleep in a box and

626
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:13,800
Speaker 4: they will play with that box, and then you could

627
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 4: flip that box over and use this as a table

628
00:32:15,760 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 4: and they'll eat off the box. You just need one box,

629
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 4: one box for child. They can't share the box because

630
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 4: they love their own box. Can not share the box.

631
00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 4: But one box per kids.

632
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 3: That's the rule.

633
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 4: That's the rule in my house. Get out of your

634
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:30,440
Speaker 4: sister's box.

635
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 3: Oh, golden rules, gold golden Leeople.

636
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:42,320
Speaker 4: So yeah, so I mean it took off, and now

637
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 4: the mom influencing industry is a multi billion dollar industry

638
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 4: of brands desperate to work with these very popular mom

639
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 4: bloggers who can have tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands,

640
00:32:53,440 --> 00:32:57,280
Speaker 4: millions of followers. And also they've set up, you know,

641
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 4: this kind of idea that this can be a career

642
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: for a lot of women, and it's a lot harder

643
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 4: than you think it's going to be. In the first season,

644
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 4: I tried to be a mom influencer. I hired. One

645
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 4: of the secrets of it is none of these pictures

646
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:14,240
Speaker 4: are taken in real time. They hire professional photographers to

647
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 4: take an entire week of pictures and videos or an

648
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 4: entire month of pictures and videos where they change the

649
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,520
Speaker 4: kids outfits constantly and they have them do all sorts

650
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 4: of different things. And we tried to do that in

651
00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 4: my house and everyone put their foot down after about

652
00:33:25,840 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 4: ten minutes, Like everyone was crying.

653
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 3: You know what, I agree with the children of this.

654
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,880
Speaker 4: One, including my husband. My husband was crying. Everyone was sad.

655
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 4: So it was it was a lot, and we talk

656
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:41,560
Speaker 4: a lot about the dangers for these kids too, like

657
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:45,320
Speaker 4: content babies, kids that are being used as content, and

658
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,280
Speaker 4: what are the implications down the road for their privacy,

659
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 4: for their self esteem, for just you know, generally having

660
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 4: their entire lives put on as a show for complete

661
00:33:57,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 4: changers for eighteen years and there are a lot of

662
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 4: concerns with that. The first kids of mommy bloggers and

663
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 4: early instagrammers are finally starting to talk about it, and

664
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 4: they're saying, I'm not happy. I'm not happy that my

665
00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 4: potty training was out there on the internet for everyone

666
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 4: to see. But again, the flip side of this is

667
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 4: that women are making their own money and staying home

668
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 4: and taking care of their children, which often feels completely impossible.

669
00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 4: I've pulled it off by making podcasts after podcasts and

670
00:34:25,680 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 4: writing books, but I can't imagine being able to juggle.

671
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 4: And we have full time help too with the babies.

672
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,360
Speaker 4: My mom lives right in the next town over, and

673
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 4: we have a full time caregiver here who's wonderful, who

674
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 4: we'd love, and we've been working with for four years now. Like,

675
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:48,760
Speaker 4: we have so much help, and it's still I couldn't

676
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 4: imagine going down office from nine to six every day

677
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 4: and also having these three children.

678
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:55,160
Speaker 3: I think, joy you and I are very similar in age.

679
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think everyone's my age. By the way, I

680
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 4: think that's something that happens after you turn forty.

681
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 2: Maybe maybe you're like in my world everyone's younger than me.

682
00:35:05,239 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 4: Oh see, I like I've started to be like I

683
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 4: also see like thirty five year olds and I'm like,

684
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 4: we're the same age, and they're like we're not. We're

685
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:16,120
Speaker 4: like fifty year old women and I'm like, we're definitely

686
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,200
Speaker 4: the same age and They're like we're yeah.

687
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that for some reason, But when they're

688
00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,359
Speaker 2: younger than me and like, yeah, you're were definitely because

689
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: I'm like I think back when I like when I

690
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 2: was thirty five, I did do things like that today

691
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:28,920
Speaker 2: that makes me tired, Like.

692
00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 4: The truth that's truly different tired.

693
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 3: Yeah.

694
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, well I'm forty three now.

695
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're the.

696
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 4: Same age, the same age.

697
00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, Okay, I know.

698
00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 2: We've been through something including seeing this play out like

699
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 2: we were at the very beginning with the Facebook, with the.

700
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:52,440
Speaker 3: Facebook, with the Facebook, with Facebook, with the Facebook spaces

701
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: and yes, my Space.

702
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: I was talking about my zinga site at one point,

703
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,840
Speaker 2: which is still I thinks floating out there that I

704
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 2: can't find anymore so bad but well it will haunt

705
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,400
Speaker 2: me one But like we did. We saw this trend

706
00:36:07,440 --> 00:36:11,439
Speaker 2: go from uh the blogs to to the to faith

707
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,400
Speaker 2: to the face face to my Space, uh to Instagram

708
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: to now TikTok and now we're having this comeback conversation

709
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,439
Speaker 2: of what happened to those kids? Uh where we're going

710
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:25,359
Speaker 2: back to, like how they're reacting to Also the one

711
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: extreme of like this was a beautiful thing because it

712
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 2: did give uh so many women opportunity. Unfortunately, this beautiful

713
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: thing was limited to very heteronormative CIS white women, and

714
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: so that look like there was a big narratives like

715
00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: this could be a good thing, but it's not broadening

716
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: as it's as we would had hoped with the internet world.

717
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's not. And it's the the Instagram algorithm

718
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 4: is so specific. It also shows you images of people

719
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 4: that it believes are like you and so or people

720
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 4: that it believes are perhaps aspirational to you because the

721
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,120
Speaker 4: algorithm tells you that, that tells them that that will

722
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 4: keep you scrolling as we're constantly trying to look for

723
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 4: aspirational images even though it breaks our brains. And so

724
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 4: I have a lot of people ask me no, Well,

725
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,759
Speaker 4: they say, I never see influencers of color, And the

726
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 4: fact is, yes, like the highest paid influencers are shame

727
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:31,479
Speaker 4: shamefully typically these white women who look like the white

728
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:34,439
Speaker 4: women that were put in commercials in like the eighties, right,

729
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:37,920
Speaker 4: And that's finally starting to be exposed. But the fact is,

730
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:44,360
Speaker 4: there are so many awesome mom influencers out there, women

731
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 4: of color, queer women, There's like so many. It's just

732
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 4: if you happen to be a white CIS woman, you're

733
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 4: probably not being shown them by the Instagram algorithm because

734
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 4: the Instagram algorithm doesn't think that they are similar to you.

735
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 4: So it's like you have to dig a little and

736
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,480
Speaker 4: that sucks, right, because I want to be shown so

737
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 4: many different types of mothers, so many different models of parenting.

738
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,879
Speaker 4: I want. I want to see two moms, I want

739
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:13,120
Speaker 4: to see two dads. I want to see all of

740
00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: these different ways of being a parent in the world.

741
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 4: But it only chooses to show you parenting that it

742
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 4: thinks is very similar to you.

743
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, one thing we talked about a lot on the show,

744
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:40,360
Speaker 1: to be clear, even though a lot of people mistake

745
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: this because of the name of the show, So matha

746
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: and I are not moms.

747
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,200
Speaker 4: Do people mistake that.

748
00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 3: By all the time women put on lists for moms

749
00:38:52,160 --> 00:39:03,240
Speaker 3: to listen to mom influencers just because the word in Twitter.

750
00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 3: Yeah on Twitter. Unfortunately this mom podcast or mom stuff podcast, Yeah,

751
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:11,600
Speaker 3: I don't know.

752
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a bad like it was way back when

753
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:15,960
Speaker 2: I think stuff mom never told you was taken or something.

754
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 4: So I've always thought of it as like your people,

755
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 4: human beings in the world with mothers.

756
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,480
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, if you read the title, yeah, that makes sense.

757
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: But then like a lot of just and then we

758
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 2: get advertisers who really think we are too.

759
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 3: We've gotten, we've had to. We we not had to,

760
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 3: but we advertise, which.

761
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 2: We don't mind because we still obviously want to talk

762
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,719
Speaker 2: about mothers because they are a part of this conversation.

763
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 2: But like the fact that we're not Yeah, like I'm

764
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 2: not excluding that. But at the same time, I'm like, yeah,

765
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:47,880
Speaker 2: but we're not experts.

766
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:48,359
Speaker 3: We don't know.

767
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: I was a nanny, yes, and I worked with children.

768
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,239
Speaker 2: That was my whole like field as a social worker,

769
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,239
Speaker 2: I worked with children. But I'm like, that doesn't mean

770
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 2: I know it looks like to be a mother, I

771
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 2: can be a caretaker that is completely different.

772
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: But again well and being a caretaker also hard, also

773
00:40:05,160 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 4: a pain. It's all a penance to be honest. I

774
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,399
Speaker 4: love my children so much, but they're a lot.

775
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:11,880
Speaker 3: That's honest.

776
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,719
Speaker 1: I like it well, So, yes, you're not mothers. But

777
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 1: we do talk about motherhood a lot on the show,

778
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 1: and we have. We've had a friend of the show guests,

779
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:27,280
Speaker 1: Bridget come on and she did a whole thing about

780
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: influencing and how it impacts children. She talked about that.

781
00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:34,680
Speaker 1: But one of the things I find really interesting about

782
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: this conversation is there's sort of a dichotomy and a

783
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: complexity and a nuance with Yes, there is a power

784
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 1: of showing the mess of motherhood. There is an absolute

785
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,879
Speaker 1: power of talking about that, not having this perfect thing,

786
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 1: because the pressure for so long that we've seen in

787
00:40:52,520 --> 00:40:54,439
Speaker 1: all kinds of media is to be the perfect mother,

788
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: that you're never mad at your kids, you never have

789
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:00,880
Speaker 1: this anger. But at the same time, it's also like

790
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 1: you're bringing the kids to show in that mess. So

791
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:10,520
Speaker 1: it's sort of like the complexity there of there is

792
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: something that is really helpful in that, but what are

793
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: the ways to do that without harming the kids in question.

794
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,880
Speaker 4: Without harming them absolutely. I mean I think about everything

795
00:41:22,920 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 4: that I say, and I post way less of my

796
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 4: kids than I ever did before, since I started reporting

797
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,839
Speaker 4: on the impact of them emotionally, psychologically and also just

798
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 4: the creepiness of strangers following you on the internet. My

799
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 4: rule is that before I post, I look at the picture,

800
00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 4: and I'm like, if I would not walk up to

801
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:47,759
Speaker 4: the creepiest dude in Starbucks, like the guy who's like

802
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,440
Speaker 4: sitting there staring on his phone, drooling a little bit,

803
00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:54,279
Speaker 4: if I wouldn't show this picture to that dude and

804
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 4: be like, do you want to look at this picture

805
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 4: of my children, then I will not post it on

806
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:02,240
Speaker 4: social media because that is clearly in my audience. And

807
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:06,440
Speaker 4: I so I do post a lot less. But I mean,

808
00:42:06,640 --> 00:42:08,279
Speaker 4: like I said, I talk about them all the time

809
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,439
Speaker 4: and like, my kids are filthy animals, which they are.

810
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 4: So I also think I'm like, all right, I am

811
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 4: I saying anything that I would be uncomfortable if they

812
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,319
Speaker 4: heard me say about them, And no, like I tell them,

813
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 4: you guys are filthy animals, and I'm very tired from

814
00:42:21,160 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 4: being your mother, and so I think those things are okay.

815
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 4: But there's other lines that I see crossed all the time,

816
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 4: and I try not to be judgmental. I think I

817
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:31,560
Speaker 4: think it's creepy to post pictures of your kids when

818
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 4: they're sleeping. You do, just like you know, they're so

819
00:42:34,239 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 4: innocent and they don't know what you're doing, like potty

820
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 4: training pictures and videos will come back to haunt them later,

821
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 4: or they'll just be embarrassed.

822
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: Uh.

823
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 4: I was talking to a parenting expert, or a social

824
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 4: media parenting expert the other day, and she said, you know,

825
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,279
Speaker 4: even things as little as posting a picture of your

826
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,840
Speaker 4: eight year old in their footy pajamas with their stuffed animals,

827
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 4: they might not want you to do that because their

828
00:42:56,719 --> 00:42:59,280
Speaker 4: friends might not think they still sleep with stuffed animals

829
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 4: or footy pitch and what if their friends saw that, so,

830
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 4: you know, putting yourself in your kid's shoes. But I

831
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 4: do agree that I think it's important to share the

832
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,320
Speaker 4: hard parts of motherhood and the messiness because the Internet

833
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 4: has just gone too far into maying it seem like

834
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 4: we have to be perfect all the time, and perfect

835
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 4: and beautiful and also smart and brave and funny and

836
00:43:21,040 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 4: just the best and also sexy, and so now I

837
00:43:24,520 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 4: try to be really honest that, like, I love my

838
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 4: kids so much more than I thought I would love

839
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 4: having kids. Like I was never a person that was like,

840
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,759
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, I must must approcreate. But I love

841
00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:34,439
Speaker 4: them and now there's three of them, which is way

842
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,280
Speaker 4: more children than I expected to be in my house.

843
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 4: But I'm also exhausted and it's hard, and I wouldn't

844
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 4: not be their mother for anything, but like, sometimes I

845
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 4: also leave and I go on vacation without them and

846
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 4: my husband and that's really nice. So yeah, no, it's important,

847
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 4: so I have to leave. That's that's when I show

848
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,959
Speaker 4: up at your house with cheese plates. But they Yes,

849
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,960
Speaker 4: I think it's a double edged sword, like how much

850
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 4: should we post about our lives as mothers and how

851
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 4: much should we protect our children? And it's something everyone

852
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,400
Speaker 4: needs to figure out for themselves. But also I do

853
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 4: think that these companies that are just making money off

854
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:14,399
Speaker 4: of the images of our children Instagram, Facebook, TikTok really

855
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 4: should put more guardrails in place about what kinds of

856
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 4: images of children are allowed and also then how early

857
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 4: children themselves are allowed to be on social media.

858
00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:27,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's this, there's a whole different level of conversation

859
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 2: when it comes to who has access, who has control,

860
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 2: who's making money. Now with AI, it's even scarier because

861
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 2: people are able to use images to create their own

862
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 2: fantasy world. We recently talked with one of the I

863
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 2: guess they work with one of the bigger AI companies

864
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: right now, imaging companies, and I have someone that I

865
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 2: know has worked with them as well. And the amount

866
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:56,520
Speaker 2: of real images they can backtrack to see some of

867
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,120
Speaker 2: the images that are on their AI and no one's

868
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:01,799
Speaker 2: stopping them. No, some of them saying like there's no

869
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 2: litigation or a law saying that they can't use it.

870
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 2: So that's even scarier, and that's something that people need

871
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,879
Speaker 2: to realize. I don't think when we as we used

872
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 2: as the internet started and we were like, this is cool,

873
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,360
Speaker 2: we can share things with our friends, ever thought that

874
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 2: this would be the point that it could become.

875
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 4: No, No, we did, We didn't. And I think about

876
00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 4: that note now too, And that is something I did

877
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 4: not think about even six months ago, that every time

878
00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,279
Speaker 4: I posted an image of my child, that image will

879
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,919
Speaker 4: likely be used by AI in some way, shape or form.

880
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 3: Right, Which is scary, which just scary? Yeah, yeah, which

881
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:36,880
Speaker 3: is a whole different coversation a whole.

882
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:39,359
Speaker 4: Different conversation and also everything is I mean my when

883
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 4: that list came out from the Atlantic recently, of the

884
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 4: books that AI was using or that these companies were

885
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:47,800
Speaker 4: using to train their AI machines, four of my books

886
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: were on there, and my first thought was what was

887
00:45:50,280 --> 00:45:55,399
Speaker 4: wrong with my other books? Wait?

888
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: Did you not?

889
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 4: Fine? But yeah, it's terrifying. I think you know, our

890
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:10,120
Speaker 4: children's faces can be used to train AI or they

891
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 4: to make deep fakes of our children. I heard some

892
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:19,919
Speaker 4: really scary stories from influencers with large followings where strangers

893
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 4: had tried to imitate them because they knew enough about

894
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 4: them and their kids to try to pull their kids

895
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:26,959
Speaker 4: out of school.

896
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: Oh wow, but they.

897
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 4: Know it because you post the first day of school picture.

898
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 4: They know the kids teacher, they know where they go

899
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 4: to school, they know what they like and what they

900
00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,839
Speaker 4: don't like. They have a picture of it, and they

901
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 4: have a picture of the parents, and they know everything

902
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,160
Speaker 4: about the parents. So like, yeah, it's creepy. It's a creepy,

903
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:44,240
Speaker 4: creepy dark place.

904
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 3: It is it is? Oh, speaking of creepy.

905
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,680
Speaker 2: Dark places, my favorite this is my transition because also

906
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 2: I looked into your sub sec and one of the

907
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,120
Speaker 2: things that we talked about recently is a lot about

908
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 2: Christian nationalism in our country. We've talked about religious trauma

909
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 2: in itself, and of course that brings us to the

910
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,360
Speaker 2: conversation of uh moms and tradwives. Yes, we had this

911
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: whold like we went to the red pill of everything,

912
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:16,359
Speaker 2: and you have been talking about tradwives as well as

913
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,160
Speaker 2: In fact, if listeners, if you have a chance, go,

914
00:47:19,719 --> 00:47:22,160
Speaker 2: If you're not already following Joe, you need to follow

915
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 2: her both substack and Instagram to look at these amazing

916
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:27,320
Speaker 2: costume that she has created.

917
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:28,719
Speaker 3: You've done an amazing job.

918
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 2: I loved your descriptor about having the helmet, the bike helmet.

919
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was so good. And then by the way,

920
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 3: I loved your book being the Baby.

921
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 4: A crazy Thing. So I will say I've for under

922
00:47:47,760 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 4: the influence of the podcast. I have been talking about

923
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 4: child wives for the past two weeks. These like most

924
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 4: mainly pretty conservative Christian influencers who are submissive to their

925
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:03,040
Speaker 4: husband's They you know, they have all of these rules

926
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 4: of like I don't do anything without asking my husband permission,

927
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 4: I don't have my own finances, I don't work outside

928
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,960
Speaker 4: the home, very devoted to being in the home and

929
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 4: raising children. And I like to make the distinction that

930
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:15,239
Speaker 4: is very different than a stay at home mom. Like

931
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:17,719
Speaker 4: I respect the out of stay at home moms. You

932
00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:19,759
Speaker 4: are the CEO of a household that is a hard job,

933
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,960
Speaker 4: like that is childlife is not stay at home mom.

934
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 4: They're very very different things. We've been talking about a

935
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 4: lot of them. And they also they're very into homesteading.

936
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 4: They make a lot of their own food from scratch.

937
00:48:31,680 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 4: But they also project all of these what I think

938
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 4: can be very dangerous values. A lot of them are

939
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 4: anti vaxers. A lot of them are very anti LGBTQ.

940
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 4: You know, there are behind all of the beautiful baked

941
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:54,680
Speaker 4: sourdough loaves, there are some nefarious influencers there, influences there,

942
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 4: and I've been talking about it so much. I was like, well,

943
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 4: this is obviously my Halloween costume. What else would I

944
00:48:59,880 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 4: be for Halloween? And so I put on an applaid

945
00:49:03,040 --> 00:49:06,040
Speaker 4: nap dress and I stuffed. A lot of them are

946
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 4: pregnant constantly. They have a lot of content babies because

947
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,680
Speaker 4: they get more attention every time they get pregnant, and

948
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 4: also they likely don't believe in birth control, and so yeah,

949
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:18,640
Speaker 4: there's that part of it. And so I was like,

950
00:49:18,920 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 4: it looked like I was thirteen months pregnant with this

951
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 4: bike helmet in, my spanks in under my nap dress.

952
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 4: And then I made like an Instagram frame to go

953
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 4: around me.

954
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:30,799
Speaker 3: Yes, but it was.

955
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 4: Really funny because that is a costume, and I couldn't

956
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 4: carry the Instagram frame, like I had a cardboard cutout

957
00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,359
Speaker 4: of like hashtag chad wife. I couldn't carry it while

958
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,840
Speaker 4: I was tuggar treating with three kids, and so it

959
00:49:41,880 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 4: was a hard costume to explain to people. And like

960
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,239
Speaker 4: a lot of people just assumed I was pregnant and

961
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 4: like offered, ton't get me a chair, and I'm like no,

962
00:49:50,160 --> 00:49:57,040
Speaker 4: I'm a conservative Christian influencer and they're like, oh what okay.

963
00:49:57,200 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 4: And then it didn't help that that I was carrying

964
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:00,440
Speaker 4: a can of beer down the s Street and I

965
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 4: forgot that I had this pregnant belly, and so then

966
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 4: people are really looking at me and I'm like, what

967
00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:09,440
Speaker 4: is Halloween? Everyone's drinking here? And then I'm like, oh,

968
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,000
Speaker 4: they think I'm pregnant. So yeah, that was it was

969
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 4: a great costume. But as I was dressed up. I

970
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,359
Speaker 4: was like, I know that this will break the d

971
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:22,360
Speaker 4: like break my Instagram feed because the Instagram algorithm loves

972
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 4: pregnant bellies. They love pregnant bellies. They love it when

973
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: you say that like a baby was just born, birth announcements,

974
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 4: they love newborns. So I was like, what if I

975
00:50:32,560 --> 00:50:35,920
Speaker 4: with it because my book posts about Sicilian inheritance, like

976
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:39,640
Speaker 4: get like moderate attention because Instagram doesn't think that's interesting.

977
00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 4: And so I'm like, what if I pretend I'm giving

978
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,399
Speaker 4: birth to my book? And so I do that as

979
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,239
Speaker 4: like a book reveal. I originally had like a whole

980
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:51,560
Speaker 4: home birth like video that I was gonna do it.

981
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 4: I'm like, it's too much, it's too much, and my

982
00:50:53,400 --> 00:50:55,960
Speaker 4: husband's like it's already too much. Stop and I'm like,

983
00:50:56,360 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 4: you know who you married, It's okay, you knew what

984
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,000
Speaker 4: you're getting into. I wrote a book about our first

985
00:51:02,040 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 4: year of marriage. But yeah, I but then I did

986
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:08,920
Speaker 4: do a book reveal of me holding the book like

987
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 4: it was a newborn baby, and my Instagram feed went wild.

988
00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,239
Speaker 4: I got it's not just that people liked it, like

989
00:51:14,239 --> 00:51:15,920
Speaker 4: and people liked it because it was funny, it was

990
00:51:15,920 --> 00:51:17,359
Speaker 4: a joke and like a lot of my friends liked it,

991
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,600
Speaker 4: but you can look at the insights and the statistics,

992
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 4: and Instagram showed it to more people outside my feed,

993
00:51:23,920 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 4: and it's ever shown to people outside my feed. It

994
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,800
Speaker 4: chose to share that content, and I think that's what's interesting,

995
00:51:30,880 --> 00:51:34,400
Speaker 4: Like it chooses to give you more reach if you

996
00:51:34,480 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 4: are this constantly pregnant woman showboating your newborn baby, and

997
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 4: that's a problem, and that's something that we should all

998
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 4: talk about.

999
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,960
Speaker 2: That's too much work, it's too much bad, and so

1000
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:47,560
Speaker 2: may I won't have to worry about me doing that.

1001
00:51:47,560 --> 00:51:49,440
Speaker 3: That's okay, I'll just be unknown. It's okay.

1002
00:51:49,480 --> 00:52:04,680
Speaker 2: We good, Yeah, oh no, back to the trad wise,

1003
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 2: because it is. It's a fascinating conversation. We had that

1004
00:52:07,080 --> 00:52:10,239
Speaker 2: conversation about a lot of the reason. Part of the

1005
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,319
Speaker 2: reason that they're having so many children is part of

1006
00:52:12,360 --> 00:52:15,000
Speaker 2: their conspiracy. Could lead to the fact that they think

1007
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 2: that the supreme race is dying off, so now more

1008
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 2: white people need to be having babies, and that being

1009
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,720
Speaker 2: a part of that conversation. The pipeline from being a

1010
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 2: yoga mom to trad wives is very It's shorter than

1011
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:30,160
Speaker 2: you would.

1012
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 4: Sure than you would expect, would expect?

1013
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:34,080
Speaker 3: Can you kind of talk about all of that there?

1014
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 4: So there's something also called soft girls on on the

1015
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,520
Speaker 4: tiktoks and the instagrams. I'm so old and like the tiktoks, however,

1016
00:52:42,440 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 4: and they so soft girls are They're like soft girls

1017
00:52:47,160 --> 00:52:50,000
Speaker 4: are very similar to and not all So it's kind

1018
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,520
Speaker 4: of language is so confusing, and I'm constantly conce I'm

1019
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 4: gonna get canceled at this point in time. I'm like,

1020
00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,200
Speaker 4: I don't care, but like I'll go do something else.

1021
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,960
Speaker 4: It's fine if you can sold me. I'll become a

1022
00:53:00,160 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 4: dog walker or something. I don't give a show, but

1023
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 4: I should to say what I want. But so there's

1024
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 4: soft girls who say, I want to drop out of

1025
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 4: the workforce. I don't want to hustle, I don't want

1026
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 4: to be your girl boss. I'm just gonna like do

1027
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 4: my yoga and my pilates all day and like meditate

1028
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:17,919
Speaker 4: and lay in the grass with my lover and stay

1029
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 4: at home girlfriends who are the trad wife version of

1030
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,080
Speaker 4: a girlfriend, where they're just they live to serve their

1031
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 4: their boyfriend. And there's all these videos of like my

1032
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:30,759
Speaker 4: boyfriend takes me on expensive vacations if I pack for him,

1033
00:53:31,120 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 4: and if I do all of this stuff, and like

1034
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,120
Speaker 4: videos of them cleaning the house all day and cooking

1035
00:53:37,160 --> 00:53:40,719
Speaker 4: for the boyfriend all day, and you know, that does

1036
00:53:40,760 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 4: seem to then evolve often into the tradwife submissive wife lifestyle.

1037
00:53:48,040 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 4: And like you said, there is this undercurrent of, you know,

1038
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 4: restoring the patriarchy, restoring a very male dominated white world. Yes,

1039
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 4: you should have more white babies. Why aren't you out

1040
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 4: there pro creating for the race? And there is it's

1041
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,879
Speaker 4: a dark, scary rabbit hole to go down. And I

1042
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 4: think the messaging is so hard to parse sometimes because

1043
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 4: it comes in a beautiful package. And that's what I

1044
00:54:19,920 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 4: think is the most dangerous about it. And when I

1045
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 4: say beautiful, I mean, you know, not even beautiful in

1046
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:30,279
Speaker 4: my definition, but in this esthetic that the internet likes,

1047
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:34,600
Speaker 4: and so it comes in that package. That's like, you too,

1048
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:38,160
Speaker 4: could stay at home and look like this and have

1049
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,279
Speaker 4: all of your lovely, quiet children running all over the place.

1050
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:42,759
Speaker 4: Why would you ever want to be on the birth

1051
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:44,800
Speaker 4: control pill? And I meanwhile, I'm like, you want to

1052
00:54:44,800 --> 00:54:46,759
Speaker 4: look at my house because that'll make you get of

1053
00:54:46,800 --> 00:54:52,480
Speaker 4: a sectomy. I mean, for the reason Nick finally got snapped.

1054
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:55,439
Speaker 4: He's like, well, you're not doing this again. We didn't

1055
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 4: think it was going to happen the third time. We

1056
00:54:57,160 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 4: were old when that happened, but we were just old.

1057
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 4: But it's perfect no, apparently to make a third baby

1058
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 4: in Vardo, North Dakota. But they yeah, it's a it's

1059
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 4: a really, it's just it's it's a scary part of

1060
00:55:16,480 --> 00:55:20,239
Speaker 4: the Internet and also a fascinating one. Like so many

1061
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:24,320
Speaker 4: people that listen to uh Under the Influence or follow

1062
00:55:24,400 --> 00:55:27,200
Speaker 4: the pot the sub stack, like I didn't know anything

1063
00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 4: about this. Screw you. I've now lost hours of my

1064
00:55:29,719 --> 00:55:31,640
Speaker 4: life going down this rabbit hole. And I'm like, yeah,

1065
00:55:31,680 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 4: I know, sorry, not sorry, I mean now that I

1066
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 4: see everyone will see it. Right.

1067
00:55:36,480 --> 00:55:37,680
Speaker 3: We all suffer together.

1068
00:55:37,440 --> 00:55:39,960
Speaker 4: We all suffer together. Yes, we suffer equally.

1069
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And I think listeners you should definitely go

1070
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: check out Under the Influence because you do talk a

1071
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 1: lot about mom influencing, but you also talk about cancer

1072
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:56,439
Speaker 1: influencing or just various ways like tradwives and and all

1073
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 1: these ways in which the Internet is harmful in ways

1074
00:56:01,920 --> 00:56:04,960
Speaker 1: that you think like there are benefits to it, but

1075
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: also these real dark sides because people are trying to

1076
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: make money ultimately, like they're trying to make money.

1077
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,640
Speaker 4: Ultimately. The goal for most people as money. That's the thing.

1078
00:56:16,040 --> 00:56:17,719
Speaker 4: I think that's just what everyone has to remember. I

1079
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 4: think you can still enjoy social media, but you have

1080
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:23,800
Speaker 4: to think about who makes money off what. Yes, right,

1081
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:26,759
Speaker 4: So it's and I, like you mentioned, I just did

1082
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:30,040
Speaker 4: an episode on cancer influencing when I had on this

1083
00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:33,840
Speaker 4: woman Kelly, who was diagnosed with breast cancer and she

1084
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:36,640
Speaker 4: started following a lot of cancer influencers And at first

1085
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 4: it was great because she's like, oh my gosh, there's

1086
00:56:38,960 --> 00:56:42,480
Speaker 4: a community here and that that should be wonderful. And

1087
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:46,560
Speaker 4: she was getting tips on diet and tips on coping

1088
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,040
Speaker 4: with different kinds of chemo and things like that. Again,

1089
00:56:49,760 --> 00:56:53,799
Speaker 4: good things, right, And then all of a sudden, she

1090
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 4: just kept following more people and the advice that she

1091
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,839
Speaker 4: was getting was very conflicting. There were people who were

1092
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:01,399
Speaker 4: telling her not to do tradition treatment, that doctors were

1093
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:05,400
Speaker 4: the devils, convincing her to essentially eat nothing but raw

1094
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 4: vegetables all the time, so that she just had a

1095
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 4: fear of any other kind of food and it got

1096
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,279
Speaker 4: to be too much, and she said she saw a

1097
00:57:13,320 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 4: lot of people in the cancer community reject a lot

1098
00:57:16,400 --> 00:57:18,240
Speaker 4: of traditional treatments, and then she saw some of them

1099
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:21,840
Speaker 4: even pass away, and she's like, these influencers have so

1100
00:57:21,960 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 4: much power, so much power, and none of it is checked.

1101
00:57:26,200 --> 00:57:28,440
Speaker 4: No one is saying, hey, you're an expert in this,

1102
00:57:29,240 --> 00:57:32,160
Speaker 4: go forth and talk. It's just like anyone can say

1103
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:34,400
Speaker 4: anything they want on the internet.

1104
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's is terrifying and has been the case.

1105
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 1: Lawsuits have been brought against people. But it's true, like

1106
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: you trust people that you see online, you form these

1107
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,560
Speaker 1: parasocial relationships and if they're telling you like, oh no,

1108
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 1: I you know, I'm with you. This is community by this.

1109
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:57,920
Speaker 1: It worked for me.

1110
00:57:58,640 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 3: But if there's.

1111
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: No checks on that, if they're just saying that because

1112
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,120
Speaker 1: they're going to get that day check, then it's irresponsible

1113
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 1: and dangerous.

1114
00:58:07,480 --> 00:58:13,520
Speaker 4: Yes, irresponsible and dangerous, exactly exactly. Oh, guys went from

1115
00:58:13,600 --> 00:58:16,760
Speaker 4: cheeseplates to irresponsible and dangerous dark places of the internet.

1116
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: We did. We should all get che after this.

1117
00:58:23,640 --> 00:58:26,880
Speaker 4: Let's all just go eat cheese. It's all eat cheese

1118
00:58:26,880 --> 00:58:28,760
Speaker 4: and drink wine in a in a dark room. In

1119
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 4: a dark room.

1120
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm just gonna whisper these pajama pants absolutely absolutely.

1121
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:39,480
Speaker 4: I'm wearing pajama pants right now. I haven't gotten out

1122
00:58:39,520 --> 00:58:40,440
Speaker 4: of my pajamas today.

1123
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 3: Is how Atlanta right now?

1124
00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 4: It's cold and hilly right now? Real?

1125
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, I will.

1126
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,920
Speaker 4: I will be doing something in Atlanta for when the

1127
00:58:53,920 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 4: Sicilian Inheritance comes out.

1128
00:58:55,640 --> 00:58:57,360
Speaker 3: So we will cheese plate.

1129
00:58:57,520 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 4: Well, I mean there's that. That's the reason I'm coming,

1130
00:58:59,760 --> 00:59:02,560
Speaker 4: but that I may also obviously be doing a book

1131
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:05,360
Speaker 4: event and Alive under the Influence podcast event down there.

1132
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 4: So we're planning all these things. So you will have

1133
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 4: to come and be on the show with me. Let

1134
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 4: us know, watch on the show. Any cheese, yeah, perfect,

1135
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 4: follow She'll bring you cheese.

1136
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:20,280
Speaker 3: She'll bring you cheese.

1137
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:28,360
Speaker 2: She endorses everything with cheese and live the followers. It's

1138
00:59:28,360 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 2: gotten all the followers and me as the best.

1139
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:33,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got wine.

1140
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:34,840
Speaker 3: Please got you.

1141
00:59:34,840 --> 00:59:38,080
Speaker 4: No, I don't want to make sunch of influence people.

1142
00:59:39,080 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: You've learned for me, it's just to stalk them and

1143
00:59:42,600 --> 00:59:47,040
Speaker 2: tell them we're friends until they know the cheese approaches better.

1144
00:59:47,000 --> 00:59:47,800
Speaker 4: I mean better.

1145
00:59:48,240 --> 00:59:49,520
Speaker 3: That's how I made friends with Annie.

1146
00:59:49,600 --> 00:59:51,960
Speaker 1: You also do the cheese approach. You also do the

1147
00:59:52,000 --> 00:59:53,360
Speaker 1: cheese approach, Samantha.

1148
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:55,160
Speaker 3: Dude, that's how I got friends with Annie. It's true,

1149
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:56,479
Speaker 3: and now she's on the show.

1150
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:59,600
Speaker 2: I had two giant platters of show, look at it,

1151
00:59:59,680 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 2: and now Almo's effective.

1152
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:03,959
Speaker 3: Jesus the Way, Jesus the Way.

1153
01:00:04,600 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: That is a pun Jesus the Way Anyway, Jesus the Way.

1154
01:00:10,720 --> 01:00:13,880
Speaker 1: We did have more questions for you, but we've already

1155
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:15,480
Speaker 1: taken it up so much of your time, so you

1156
01:00:15,640 --> 01:00:17,040
Speaker 1: just you'll just have to come back.

1157
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 4: Come back, guys, I will always come back. I love

1158
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:20,880
Speaker 4: it here.

1159
01:00:22,360 --> 01:00:24,440
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome. You know, I think we've been talking for

1160
01:00:24,480 --> 01:00:25,440
Speaker 3: like a good two hours.

1161
01:00:25,600 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 4: We've been talking for an hour and a half. Guys,

1162
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,120
Speaker 4: keep going, so you never. Actually I have to go

1163
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,200
Speaker 4: pick up my hands from school at some point, So well,

1164
01:00:33,640 --> 01:00:36,439
Speaker 4: all right, then I can always everything up.

1165
01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:44,160
Speaker 1: Well, can you tell us the good listeners where they

1166
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,480
Speaker 1: can find you, what they can look forward to from you?

1167
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:49,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course, Like we talked about a lot, The

1168
01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,600
Speaker 4: Sicilian Inheritance is coming out in April, but you can

1169
01:00:52,640 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 4: all pre order it now, which really matters because it

1170
01:00:55,160 --> 01:00:58,400
Speaker 4: determines where we go for events, and like I said, uh,

1171
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 4: those events are going to have one and cheese, So

1172
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,960
Speaker 4: order your copy now. Let me know I'm on the

1173
01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,960
Speaker 4: Instagram at Joe Piazza author. I always think that it's

1174
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,880
Speaker 4: ironic that the best place to find me is Instagram

1175
01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,280
Speaker 4: because I hate it so much, but it is. It works,

1176
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,520
Speaker 4: and until there's something that works, you know, in the

1177
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 4: same way, I'll just keep doing it. But I'm also

1178
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,240
Speaker 4: I also have a sub stack over the Influence that

1179
01:01:21,520 --> 01:01:25,320
Speaker 4: is linked to the under the Influence podcast, which comes

1180
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 4: out twice weekly and is everywhere that you find your podcasts.

1181
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 1: Yes, awesome, awesome, Thank you so much for being here.

1182
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,200
Speaker 4: Guys. This was so fun. I can't wait to see

1183
01:01:35,200 --> 01:01:36,360
Speaker 4: you in person. We're gonna have so much fun when

1184
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 4: I come to Atlanta.

1185
01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:40,480
Speaker 1: Oh yes, yes, And if you would like to find

1186
01:01:40,560 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 1: us listeners, you can. We have an email at stephan

1187
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,800
Speaker 1: mediam momsteph at iHeartMedia dot com. You can find us

1188
01:01:47,840 --> 01:01:50,920
Speaker 1: on Twitter at mamsa podcasts, or on Instagram and TikTok

1189
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: at Stephane Never told you. We do have a tea

1190
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:56,480
Speaker 1: public story. You can get merchandise, and we also have

1191
01:01:56,560 --> 01:01:59,600
Speaker 1: a book. You can get it wherever you get your

1192
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:02,640
Speaker 1: book or audio books. Thanks as always to our super

1193
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: producer Christina, our executive producer Maya and your contributor, Joey,

1194
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,040
Speaker 1: thank you and thanks to you for listening. Stefan never

1195
01:02:09,080 --> 01:02:11,080
Speaker 1: told you the production of iHeart Radio. For more podcasts

1196
01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: on my heart Radio, you can check out the heart Radio,

1197
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,440
Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,