Speaker 1: Listen for someone, someone we're not supposed to fun. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of love songs about him. There's a lot
Speaker 1: of love songs about him, and they will not show
Speaker 1: us any versions of him that are ugly. He is
Speaker 1: always hot, always as abs. He's a sex symbol that
Speaker 1: we can't have sex with him, and men and men
Speaker 1: and women praise him and sing love songs to him,
Speaker 1: but they're mad about same sex. Smash Jesus. But I
Speaker 1: don't want. I don't want all these men smashing each other.
Speaker 1: That's me and Jesus. Relationship is different. Ship sent us, racists,
Speaker 1: money stuff, I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there
Speaker 1: it is, there is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another
Speaker 1: phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy
Speaker 1: theories and we finally work to prove that the X
Speaker 1: in Little nas X stands for xylophone. That's right. This
Speaker 1: motherfucker is upsetting people left and right. Not only is
Speaker 1: he putting queer images in front of our our innocent,
Speaker 1: thirty eight year old black men, but more importantly, he's
Speaker 1: coming up with silly Billy ass names like xylophone. This
Speaker 1: guy's a problem. He's a real problem. Boosey's right, everybody
Speaker 1: else is wrong. It's all clear to me. I'm your host,
Speaker 1: Linkston Kerman. I'm coming in hot as always, and and
Speaker 1: you know who's who's not coming in hot? Who always
Speaker 1: plays it cool? Never once if by seeing her coming
Speaker 1: hot and in a good way. She comes in the
Speaker 1: right temperature every time I see her. She's hilarious, an
Speaker 1: amazing comedian and author. You know her from her book
Speaker 1: Fuck Your Diet. Hilarious, hilarious person. And I'm so happy
Speaker 1: she's here. Give it up for my guests, Miss Chloe Hillier. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I make my own sound of face. Hell yeah, you
Speaker 1: know the people in the background ain't good enough. You
Speaker 1: gotta throw in a little extra right at the right
Speaker 1: at the end. How are we? What's up? I am great?
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. It's gonna be so much fun. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's gonna be a great time. You You came today
Speaker 1: with a conspiracy theory. I mentioned this to you already,
Speaker 1: one that I have desperately been wanting to talk about
Speaker 1: for the longest time. It's it's a conspiracy theory that
Speaker 1: I feel like I have heard my entire life that
Speaker 1: people have argued about forever, and today we get to
Speaker 1: finally talk about it, we get to finally do it.
Speaker 1: And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hold us any longer.
Speaker 1: You said, my mama told me Jesus is black, absolutely
Speaker 1: one thousand percent, Yes, one thousand you know, come we say. So.
Speaker 1: The thing is, this doesn't even have anything to do
Speaker 1: so much so with religion as it has to do
Speaker 1: with our parents letting us know, preparing us in a
Speaker 1: very naive way, to let us know that white supremacy
Speaker 1: is real. But we have to know the truth. M
Speaker 1: and so it's like, forget what everybody else tells you.
Speaker 1: This is the truth. We have our own truth and
Speaker 1: you can't. And out there you can say you believe
Speaker 1: it to go along with it, but we know the truth.
Speaker 1: And so that's how I always took it as well.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, white people be lying to us,
Speaker 1: we know what's up? WHOA So you're saying, you're saying
Speaker 1: that that at its core, this is really more of
Speaker 1: an allegory for for sort of the deceptiveness of whiteness
Speaker 1: is and and their their actions, more than it is
Speaker 1: like definitively Jesus had an afro and a pick in
Speaker 1: it kind of thing. Yeah, And also like you know
Speaker 1: what what they did to Jesus is where white society
Speaker 1: does the black people. We can cicifide every day, and
Speaker 1: so it's like, so that's why. So that's also why
Speaker 1: black people rock so harward Jesus because we're like, he's us,
Speaker 1: we are him, Like we're walking in the same footsteps
Speaker 1: to struggle the objectification, the slander, all of that, Like
Speaker 1: we're Jesus. That's why black people love Jesus. Oh. So
Speaker 1: all of this is just sort of like it's it's
Speaker 1: like how how your favorite rapper goes off from some
Speaker 1: ship and you're like, well, I never sold drugs, but
Speaker 1: I know what you're going through, bro, Like I I
Speaker 1: connect with the experience and the challenges that you're facing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it also it also prepares you for getting your
Speaker 1: ass kicked every day in a white side literally because
Speaker 1: it's like, yo, Jesus went through this, and I rock
Speaker 1: with Jesus. So am I betting Jesus? Like yeah, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm gonna take this beat in every single day
Speaker 1: because of the color of my skin. But you know,
Speaker 1: I guys Jesus to lean on. I like this. So
Speaker 1: so let's let's trace this back a little bit, because
Speaker 1: I do. I love what you're saying about this being
Speaker 1: sort of like a motivational thing and allegorical thing, a
Speaker 1: thing that that drives us to be better versions of ourselves.
Speaker 1: I wonder when you first were told that Jesus was black,
Speaker 1: and who was the person that that introduced this idea
Speaker 1: to you? Yeah, well, I think for me. So, my
Speaker 1: my parents come from two very different religious backgrounds, right,
Speaker 1: And so my dad's family didn't really go to church
Speaker 1: at all, like my grandmother. I remember my dad's mom
Speaker 1: smoked cigarettes, you know, drink, go go to Atlantic City.
Speaker 1: You know, she's gambling, all of that stuff, right, And
Speaker 1: my mom's mom was like saved sac factor with the
Speaker 1: Holy ghost. So like my mom was like the church girl,
Speaker 1: and my dad was like not like not the street guy,
Speaker 1: but like the not saved person, you know, like he
Speaker 1: wasn't like he wasn't like a thug, but he was
Speaker 1: just like a world a more worldly dude. And so
Speaker 1: my mom had me in church early, and so I
Speaker 1: was always everything was all church all the time. I
Speaker 1: was to go to church every weekend. Uh, sometimes during
Speaker 1: the week. My grandmother only play. Like. I grew up
Speaker 1: in a Christian, Black American household, and so we always
Speaker 1: talked about the Bible. We always talked about Versus. My
Speaker 1: grandmother can recite every single verse backwards. You know. I
Speaker 1: was in church a lot, and I was in a
Speaker 1: lot of church plays. And so my earliest realization about
Speaker 1: Jesus being black was when we were in the Christmas
Speaker 1: pageant and we had a black baby Jesus. And so
Speaker 1: that was the first conversation I remember having being like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now listen, we know the world is this, but our world,
Speaker 1: our reality is this, and this is what you need
Speaker 1: to know. This is the truth. Damn. Okay. So, so
Speaker 1: you have a black baby Jesus, presumably a child is
Speaker 1: acting as a black baby Jesus. And are there white
Speaker 1: jesus Is in your church? Like, is the imagery also
Speaker 1: of a black Jesus? Or do are there white jesus
Speaker 1: Is on the wall? They're like, but we got black
Speaker 1: baby Jesus. Yeah. So it was like, I feel like
Speaker 1: most black churches that have white Jesus Is, it's like
Speaker 1: that porcelain Jesus that's like a little pinkish. It's not
Speaker 1: it's not white white. So we don't we don't even
Speaker 1: we don't even look at it as white. You get
Speaker 1: what I'm saying, right, Like we see it as like, oh,
Speaker 1: he got a little bit of a hand, like it's
Speaker 1: probably dust on that bitch, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: But we're like, this is not a white man how
Speaker 1: we think about white men in modern times. Right, No,
Speaker 1: it's like a bear grills Jesus. He's like outdoorsy Jesus. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: So it just was a figure. But then I remember
Speaker 1: seeing like the first time I saw black Jesus, because
Speaker 1: you also got to realize black Jesus probably sprung out
Speaker 1: in my lifetime. I'm forty years old, and and that's
Speaker 1: I think when black people started saying we can actually
Speaker 1: say it out loud, and we're gonna start showing like imagery.
Speaker 1: So I remember the first time we got the church
Speaker 1: fans and it was a black Jesus on the back
Speaker 1: of the church fans, and everybody was like, yo, you see,
Speaker 1: we got a black black Because for a while, black
Speaker 1: black churches were going along with all the white, white
Speaker 1: Jesus imagery. But there was like a shift. I remember
Speaker 1: when I was like, oh, okay, we we take we
Speaker 1: really claiming this? Yeah, I I similarly, it won't it
Speaker 1: not at all. Similarly, I did not grow up in
Speaker 1: the church, but at some point in my teens I
Speaker 1: actually like went to my mom and was like, hey,
Speaker 1: I think we should start going to church. I made
Speaker 1: sort of like a big decision to be like we
Speaker 1: got the church family, because all my niggas talking about it,
Speaker 1: and I want to know what and I and I wish,
Speaker 1: I wish you. I wish I knew you because I'm like, no,
Speaker 1: you don't try here. I did it a few years
Speaker 1: and learned this was a terrible mistake and I owe
Speaker 1: everyone apologies. Oh my god. But that said, even when
Speaker 1: we were attending black churches, I do remember distinctly they're
Speaker 1: being almost exclusively white. Jesus is on the walls and
Speaker 1: the pamphlets, all the ship was covered in in the
Speaker 1: white version of him. But I do also remember, and
Speaker 1: maybe this was just ignorance of youth, right. I know,
Speaker 1: there was never a point in me where I was
Speaker 1: like questioning Jesus in terms of his race. It was
Speaker 1: more like his moral code, his representation all that stuff.
Speaker 1: But it was never like why is Jesus white. It
Speaker 1: was just like I don't know, that's that's who God is,
Speaker 1: you know, And I don't know if that's a good
Speaker 1: thing or a bad thing. I truly, Uh, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: torn every day. But sort of I guess there there
Speaker 1: is an element of of de racing Jesus, if that's
Speaker 1: a word, Yes, exactly, that's what I meant. That's what
Speaker 1: I mean, Like, yes, we don't even see him as white.
Speaker 1: It's just that's Jesus. Yeah, he doesn't even have a race.
Speaker 1: We don't even think about, Like I don't remember ever
Speaker 1: thinking about Jesus's race until there was a moment where
Speaker 1: they was like, no, he's black. And I think and
Speaker 1: I think also honestly, I mean, I don't know. It
Speaker 1: could have been before my time, but my childhood. I
Speaker 1: feel like more of the black Jesus talks started happening
Speaker 1: as the conservative Christians Evangelicalism started rising, so like right
Speaker 1: around like Jimmy Baker all lit those people when he
Speaker 1: was like because you know, white people turned out for
Speaker 1: Jesus like in a weird way all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like it was you know, Catholic, Protestant, and then Boom Christian, Christian,
Speaker 1: Evangelical and all of these like mega churches. And then
Speaker 1: you know, you gotta see black people talking about our
Speaker 1: relationship with Jesus. Now you've got white people talking about
Speaker 1: their relationship with Jesus, talking about their struggle, their strife.
Speaker 1: And now it's like, no, we've we've been struggling to
Speaker 1: praying it to Jesus. How come he you're Jesus. Now
Speaker 1: now you're gonna use our Jesus against us? And I
Speaker 1: think it was came like, you know, we need a mascot,
Speaker 1: and it was like black Jesus Jesus like let's let's
Speaker 1: it's time to raise him up. So I know, but
Speaker 1: it felt it felt like it was a lot of competing,
Speaker 1: like we're the best Christians, No, we're the best, you know,
Speaker 1: Like it was weird. It's reminding me of that uh
Speaker 1: a few years ago when when uh Megan Kelly, Meghan Kelly,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you pronounced this bitch's name, but
Speaker 1: but when she came out and she was like, uh,
Speaker 1: Santa Claus is definitively white. And it's one of those
Speaker 1: things that that like again, I had never felt passionately
Speaker 1: about Santa Claus's race, but now that you're saying he's white,
Speaker 1: I'll kill you just to make saying to Clause anything
Speaker 1: other than white. I would rather Santa Clause as Filipino
Speaker 1: then then accept him as a Caucasian man. Because you
Speaker 1: were speaking to me, is if this fictional character is
Speaker 1: anything other than what we've imagined him to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's like, that's like when when it came
Speaker 1: up with black Annie and he was like and he's
Speaker 1: not black, and he was like, and he's not real, real,
Speaker 1: none of it is real. But it's just it's just
Speaker 1: so crazy how people, you know, cling to a mascot
Speaker 1: and I and I know people are like Jesus a mascot,
Speaker 1: but essentially, you know, you know, essentially, you know, they
Speaker 1: hold on to this this idea of a thing so
Speaker 1: much because it has to be there's right. The only way,
Speaker 1: the only way truly salvation works is if you truly
Speaker 1: believe that you were deserving of salvation, right, and if
Speaker 1: everybody believes that they're deserving a salvation, then you have
Speaker 1: to try and quantify because it's like, well that means
Speaker 1: we're all equal. But we can't be all equal. I
Speaker 1: gotta be better than somebody. And then that people pervert,
Speaker 1: they pervert the thing. Well, that's It's one of the
Speaker 1: things that I've always really respected about the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Speaker 1: You know, they put a number on that bad boy.
Speaker 1: They were like, Hut, four thousand of y'all are gonna
Speaker 1: be coolest, fucking the rest of y'all good luck. We
Speaker 1: don't know, but we're gonna go. We're gonna go door
Speaker 1: to door to prove our value and make sure that
Speaker 1: we get that spot in heaven. Yeah. But my thing is,
Speaker 1: I always took it as if y'all know how many
Speaker 1: the number is, why are you trying to get more people?
Speaker 1: You should not want to tell nobody. So therefore, stop
Speaker 1: knocking on my motherfucking door. Go keep your secret, nigga.
Speaker 1: Damn listen. I said, I respected a part of what
Speaker 1: they do. A big part of what they do I
Speaker 1: find obnoxious and difficult to deal with. But boy, them
Speaker 1: putting the number on it, that's the part I meant to.
Speaker 1: It's bold. I mean, you gotta really believe if you're
Speaker 1: sticking to that number, you got to believe. You have
Speaker 1: to and and boy do they demonstrate. I mean, Prince
Speaker 1: literally died for his his faith and it ain't great,
Speaker 1: but I respect the hell out of it. Yeah. See.
Speaker 1: The other thing is like that when it comes to
Speaker 1: the print stuff, like any religion that is so closely
Speaker 1: tied to your physical body, it always throws me off
Speaker 1: a little bit, like when they were like, don't wear
Speaker 1: you know, don't get tattoos, don't this, And I want
Speaker 1: to be like, yo, this is a fucking tupple ware
Speaker 1: set I'm in right now, like my body's going somewhere else,
Speaker 1: like y'all treating this shell way too seriously, Like seriously, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna burn this when I'm done with it. I'm
Speaker 1: literally going to have a person lighted on fire. And
Speaker 1: you and we have proof because people believe this ship
Speaker 1: before and they are called Egyptians. And we got all
Speaker 1: the fucking mummies left here because the bodies just didn't
Speaker 1: go nowhere, so and they look like ship. They didn't
Speaker 1: they didn't get better over time. No, No, that's what
Speaker 1: you do want me to leave behind. No, this is
Speaker 1: a vessel, baby, let's rock out. I like that. Let
Speaker 1: me let me ask you you this are would you
Speaker 1: consider yourself a religious person. Now you said you grew
Speaker 1: up in the church, you went through all of it.
Speaker 1: Are you a person? Are you still a believer? Are
Speaker 1: you still going to church practicing? Are you like not
Speaker 1: Serve my Nickel? I'm out. Yeah, No, I'm good. Um,
Speaker 1: I am good. You know I'm good. But I'm also
Speaker 1: a good person. So that's so so for me, my
Speaker 1: moral compass has already been established. So like at my core,
Speaker 1: I still have very much Christian values and the way
Speaker 1: in which I engage with people and treat myself, all
Speaker 1: that stuff like that is not ship. You know, that
Speaker 1: has not been deterred at all. But what turned me
Speaker 1: off from religion was realizing that they were people in
Speaker 1: the pulpit who were preaching who did not have like
Speaker 1: the education and the credentials, the resume, the credit score
Speaker 1: to even be preaching. And then you have people funneling money.
Speaker 1: And so when I started to see like the perversion
Speaker 1: of it, when I started to see like the business.
Speaker 1: When you know, my grandmother who was like a devout Christian,
Speaker 1: she's ninety one, and you know she watches those like
Speaker 1: Christian shows all day, and so it was around the
Speaker 1: time it was around the time I was like in
Speaker 1: high school, I started playing basketball. So basketball got me
Speaker 1: out of going to church. That's the only thing that
Speaker 1: got me out of going to church, because because my
Speaker 1: parents were like, oh, well, you know, if she's if
Speaker 1: she gets good, then she can get a scholarship that
Speaker 1: hel's of college. So I was like, yo, basketball, like
Speaker 1: you you're you're somebody worth believing in. As far as
Speaker 1: if I got to put my money on a hooper,
Speaker 1: I'd go. I'd go your route. I know, yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: six one. I'm six one. I started playing basketball ninth grade,
Speaker 1: so I was already late. So I wasn't so if
Speaker 1: I had played younger, I would have been a much
Speaker 1: better player. But I was good enough to get the goal,
Speaker 1: which was a college scholarship. And so that's how I
Speaker 1: got at the church. So once you get to once
Speaker 1: you're out of church, and you start like seeing all
Speaker 1: the things, all the things that you used to have
Speaker 1: to abide by, all the conversations around certain things based
Speaker 1: on like, you know, someone else's regrditations from of a text.
Speaker 1: You know, like, once you start like being able to
Speaker 1: like take some steps back and look at the bigger picture,
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, I don't know if this is for me,
Speaker 1: Like I get it. Don't kill nobody, don't rape nobody,
Speaker 1: don't feel like I can do that, Like I'll a
Speaker 1: buye by thes in commandments and like you know, fucking
Speaker 1: douce it up. But all that other stuff that all
Speaker 1: that any like that, all of that remix texting like
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. Yeah, I I similarly. The thing
Speaker 1: and I think I've talked about this before on the podcast,
Speaker 1: but the thing that that got me out of church,
Speaker 1: and it's it's a very dumb, small thing, but it
Speaker 1: felt like a very large thing in my world at
Speaker 1: the time, was we I used to I used to
Speaker 1: go like three times a week. Right again, I volunteered
Speaker 1: for this ship and I would voluntarily take myself there
Speaker 1: three times a week. I feel like you look like
Speaker 1: I feel like you low Kia say this, Like here
Speaker 1: you say this, I'm like, love torture. You love torture.
Speaker 1: You've got some kinking you, That's what I hear. I
Speaker 1: really at the time, you know what it was, I
Speaker 1: really just fucked with the stories. I was like, man,
Speaker 1: these stories are kind of cool, and I like that, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, there's all these like lessons and ship that
Speaker 1: come out of them. It felt I just like the reading.
Speaker 1: But then we would go to these these Bible study
Speaker 1: classes and the lady who taught like the youth group
Speaker 1: Bible study classes, and one day showed a video where
Speaker 1: they were sort of like explaining all the the satanism
Speaker 1: in in contemporary music. That they were telling you why
Speaker 1: every artist that you enjoy is secretly worshiping the devil.
Speaker 1: And then at one point it got to John Lennon's
Speaker 1: Imagine and they were telling me how that song specifically
Speaker 1: was him equating himself to God. But they're playing the
Speaker 1: song and I'm listening to the lyrics and it didn't
Speaker 1: feel like that. It felt like a dude basically being like,
Speaker 1: what if we treated everybody like they might be God
Speaker 1: and therefore respected them and cared for them and blah
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah. And I argued with the lady
Speaker 1: and was like, no, I think there's actually a different
Speaker 1: way to interpret this, and she was like, no, that'sen
Speaker 1: You're going to hell if you believe in it. Blah
Speaker 1: blah blah. I was like, I can't be here, and
Speaker 1: that's like, that's what really got me annoyed because I
Speaker 1: remember them like telling kids like we going to hell,
Speaker 1: and I was like, Yo, my god, I just got here.
Speaker 1: How why are you telling I'm gonna? I just got here?
Speaker 1: Like I didn't even like circle the Son that many times,
Speaker 1: like what are you talking about? And they would be
Speaker 1: like they would just it was just like to me,
Speaker 1: I just never understood the fear aspect of it. Right,
Speaker 1: And so if you say this God is great, this
Speaker 1: God is all knowing, I'm never tend to alpha and
Speaker 1: omega and he created us in his image, then why
Speaker 1: is he making us suffer through so much? Why do
Speaker 1: I have to like praise praise and worship? And like
Speaker 1: what do it? Like? That means? Just's like a like
Speaker 1: it feels like a sycophanic relationship, you know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: So like it don't feel love and joy. It feels
Speaker 1: like control, manipulation and fear. And you know, I have
Speaker 1: a very controversial take about, you know, the Black Church,
Speaker 1: and I feel like when it comes to African Americans
Speaker 1: and our experience with the Black Church, it was used
Speaker 1: to manipulate us. And so I don't understand how you know,
Speaker 1: we are so and that's also why I think Black
Speaker 1: Jesus came to be right, So that's also how we
Speaker 1: separate it. So you know, you know, like this is
Speaker 1: a bad analogy, but I already brought it up, so
Speaker 1: I gotta go with it. This is gonna go so bad,
Speaker 1: I might. So you know how like when they say,
Speaker 1: like a person experiences trauma, like if a young kid
Speaker 1: is raped or anything like that, they split their mind off,
Speaker 1: like they disassociate themselves, right, And so I think that
Speaker 1: black Jesus is Black Americans way of disassociate themselves from
Speaker 1: the Jesus that was used by the slavery times to oppress, manipulate,
Speaker 1: and deteriorate us as individuals. So that's I think is
Speaker 1: on other reason why we cling to Black Jesus. Because
Speaker 1: it's like we've given so much to Jesus and that
Speaker 1: kind of hasn't been panting out, but we if we
Speaker 1: give it to Black Jesus and maybe we'll have a shot.
Speaker 1: And so it's like this is so so knowing all
Speaker 1: of that, to me, it's just like, yeah, but if
Speaker 1: if it was all the way real, we wouldn't have
Speaker 1: to do all of that. We would just be blessed
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like, why do I have to
Speaker 1: appease this thing that I can't see, Like were's the love?
Speaker 1: And that? Like, were's the loving somebody waiting? But like
Speaker 1: you didn't pray enough, or you didn't worship enough, or
Speaker 1: you didn't give enough tides and that, like where's the
Speaker 1: unconditional love and that? And so that's one thing. And
Speaker 1: the other thing I feel like when it comes to
Speaker 1: Black Americans and in Jesus, is that Christianity as the
Speaker 1: remnants of slavery time was used to teach us as
Speaker 1: a coping mechanism that our life on this plane will
Speaker 1: always be shitty for various reasons, which was really white supremacy, ownership, manipulation, kidnapping, genocide, rape,
Speaker 1: all of that ship Like that's the reason why our
Speaker 1: lives are shitty and on earth. And instead of us
Speaker 1: being like, well we can just not make it shitty,
Speaker 1: we'll say, well, we'll suffer because on the other side,
Speaker 1: a k A, when we fucking die, that's when we're
Speaker 1: gonna get out pie in the sky. And I rode
Speaker 1: to redemption and it's like that is to me, I
Speaker 1: realized that was a part of the conditioning of enslavement
Speaker 1: on black people in order for us to remain subservient,
Speaker 1: which is, yes, we're gonna beat you, rape you, kill you,
Speaker 1: sell your kids off. But if you keep praying, the
Speaker 1: next time you wake up, it will be someplace. But
Speaker 1: and that's that's to me. I'm like, this ship is conditioning,
Speaker 1: and that's I really fell out. What do communists say?
Speaker 1: I think it's it's that religion is the opioid of
Speaker 1: the masses. That like it is, it is truly a
Speaker 1: to your point, it is a form of manipulation, whether
Speaker 1: true or not, it is constantly manipulated for control. So
Speaker 1: you have all these preachers who are able to read
Speaker 1: a book that objectively, we should be able to just
Speaker 1: look at as like you said, allegories, lessons moral a
Speaker 1: moral code to set for us, and then add their
Speaker 1: own interpretations to the thing to get people to do
Speaker 1: a bunch of bullshit or or give more money or
Speaker 1: service their intentions in a different kind of way. And
Speaker 1: that's a dangerous fucking thing, right Like, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, we should just be able to look
Speaker 1: at these things as stories and be like, hell yeah,
Speaker 1: I rock with this story, or hell yeah, this made
Speaker 1: me think about things differently. But we shouldn't be sitting
Speaker 1: here going like I I gotta get punched in the
Speaker 1: face forever and always at the possibility that maybe there's
Speaker 1: a cool black dude up in the sky who's like,
Speaker 1: you did it, you did it? Play will maybe not though, Like, like,
Speaker 1: that's why I think I'd like to live my life
Speaker 1: right down the middle. It's like, I do enough. I'm serious,
Speaker 1: I do enough shitty ship on the side, and I
Speaker 1: do a plenty of amazing things. I'm right down the middle.
Speaker 1: So you know, it's a toss up, like if there's
Speaker 1: a God or Jesus or I'm partly gay, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it's on, y'all. I'm damn. Let me let me ask
Speaker 1: you this before we go to the break, because I
Speaker 1: do think this is important, and I wonder. So you're
Speaker 1: saying you're not a particularly religious person anymore, you do
Speaker 1: you still believe there's there's a potential god up there?
Speaker 1: Are you? Like? Na, there's nothing. I'm just gonna know. No. Listen,
Speaker 1: first of all, I can't now let me tell you,
Speaker 1: so you tell me who's not trying to get canceled
Speaker 1: by blah blahhma. Do someone right? Here. Ain't no way
Speaker 1: I'm saying is no God. No, that's not my mama.
Speaker 1: If you're listening, or if somebody I did not say
Speaker 1: that you're good but there is a God and you
Speaker 1: still believe in all this stuff? Yes, I I do
Speaker 1: believe in all I do believe in all this stuff,
Speaker 1: but not the stuff that makes my life miserable. Does
Speaker 1: that mean yes? Okay? So this this actually brings me
Speaker 1: then to to my next question, which is when you
Speaker 1: close your eyes and you imagine God. Because you're saying
Speaker 1: you do believe that Jesus is black. When you close
Speaker 1: your eyes and you imagine God, what kind of black
Speaker 1: Jesus are we talking about? Is he a dark skin
Speaker 1: like Isaac Hayes looking Jesus or is he more drizzy
Speaker 1: drake looking Jesus where we at with Jesus? Definitely not
Speaker 1: Jesse Jake. Definitely not Jessy Jake. I would say, you
Speaker 1: know if you because if you just look at the
Speaker 1: people of that time, right they no one was lighted
Speaker 1: in the ritz Cracker, So I think I think he
Speaker 1: would be. He would be like on the scale of
Speaker 1: like flavor flave to El de Barge. He's probably like
Speaker 1: a Boris Coacho. Okay, all right, I think maybe around
Speaker 1: that complex just a just a dark light skin, just
Speaker 1: a dark Does he have the long flowing hair as
Speaker 1: he's been talking, you know what listen, probably like curly
Speaker 1: here like you know, um, I mean like like DJ
Speaker 1: Khaled's son. What tho like that? Oh you know, I
Speaker 1: was thinking like a Corbin Blue you remember him from US? Oh? Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: yeah no. But if you look at people from like
Speaker 1: Ethiopius Amali, like you know, there's like a part of
Speaker 1: especially close up to the Mediterranean, they have like you know,
Speaker 1: a nice curl texture, like full hair. So maybe something
Speaker 1: like that. Hell yeah, so you you've got an image
Speaker 1: of Jesus in your head when you close your eyes
Speaker 1: and pray, it's this this Boris ko Joe with with
Speaker 1: DJ khaleeds son hair looking dude listening, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean I'm not trying to fund Jesus. But I
Speaker 1: mean nor should you, I think very because because like
Speaker 1: that description sounds like I'm out here fantasizing about a
Speaker 1: hot as Jesus. Listen, If if ever there was somebody
Speaker 1: to be horn me for, it is Jesus. He's not
Speaker 1: technically supposed to have sex with you back. So if
Speaker 1: it makes you feel more committed to him, I think
Speaker 1: that's okay. I don't think Jesus would be mad about it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he loved me. He always with me, He doesn't never
Speaker 1: leave me. He's got my back. When you really think
Speaker 1: about it out of context, you're like, this sound a
Speaker 1: little weird. You want to Jesus, you're weird. All right,
Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break. We'll be back with more.
Speaker 1: Chloe here more. My mama told me we are back
Speaker 1: like teenage girls when you say teenage, how are we talking? Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're back here with more cloth. Or my mama told me.
Speaker 1: You should have seen the look on her face, Ladies
Speaker 1: and gentlemen when she realized the button I decided to press.
Speaker 1: Bringing us back into the subject of talking God in
Speaker 1: his blackness, truly a fun one. All right, Let's dig
Speaker 1: into some of this research I had over and I
Speaker 1: don't know how much you you remember, because I do
Speaker 1: remember as a kid hearing people always referenced scripture that
Speaker 1: specifically suggested that Jesus might be a black person. There's
Speaker 1: like one specific scripture that always gets sort of reference,
Speaker 1: And it turns out, at least in my research that
Speaker 1: that scripture has been massively uh reworked in our retelling
Speaker 1: of the scripture, like it's never as sort of charming
Speaker 1: as people have presented it. Do you remember the specific
Speaker 1: like details of the scripture that people always bring up
Speaker 1: because it lives in my head, you know, Nigga's love
Speaker 1: to remix it, and by the time it got to
Speaker 1: me and it was like, yo, he got an afro.
Speaker 1: His skin is like copper, smooth like sat and like
Speaker 1: we we we we did the Marvin Gay smooth operator
Speaker 1: remix on Jesus when he made him him, made him
Speaker 1: like ours. Yes, so no one could really point to
Speaker 1: the scripture, but we just was like, you know, he
Speaker 1: black right here. You know when they say skin like this,
Speaker 1: they were like that's us, and he was like, okay,
Speaker 1: yeah it was. His skin was like copper and his
Speaker 1: hair was like whoa, whoa uh. And it always was
Speaker 1: sort of at least suggested to me as like Jesus
Speaker 1: had like walked into the club and everybody turned and
Speaker 1: he was just glowing handsome, and it is like, god damn,
Speaker 1: look at this beautiful Jesus with his wool hair and
Speaker 1: his copper skin and all that and it turns out
Speaker 1: that the actual only physical reference made, or any suggestion
Speaker 1: of of Jesus's appearance in the Bible is after he's dead.
Speaker 1: That like, they don't ever really describe what he looks
Speaker 1: like until after he's dead, and it's in revelations, and
Speaker 1: they in revelations the hair on his head was white
Speaker 1: like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were
Speaker 1: like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in
Speaker 1: the furnace, and his voice was like the sound of
Speaker 1: rushing water. And his right hand he held seven stars.
Speaker 1: Coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double edged sword.
Speaker 1: His face was like the sun shining in all of
Speaker 1: its brilliance. This is the description that we've sort of
Speaker 1: like reinterpreted over and over again, and that reference to
Speaker 1: wool and the bronze has zero to do with his
Speaker 1: actual complexion and hair. But that two things we turned
Speaker 1: him into. Bility Williams. That's number one to make some
Speaker 1: hours and the other part about that it just goes
Speaker 1: to show And this is when I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I can't really like give all my life to this
Speaker 1: um energy. It just goes to show you how eager
Speaker 1: people are to take pieces of something to make it
Speaker 1: there is to justify their devotion to it, right. So
Speaker 1: that's when I was just like, ye'all making this like
Speaker 1: it just felt like Stockholm syndrome. It just felt like
Speaker 1: y'all are trying to find the good to make it
Speaker 1: seem okay that you're doing this with your life, and
Speaker 1: it's just like just live and and to that point.
Speaker 1: This is also something that I found pretty interesting is
Speaker 1: that the other references that they make to Jesus in
Speaker 1: the Bible basically talk about the fact that he wasn't
Speaker 1: a particularly handsome person like they There are like a
Speaker 1: couple of scriptures that Isaiah fifty three to the first
Speaker 1: to Jesus as having no beauty, that we should desire
Speaker 1: him that basically no one wanted to funk Jesus for
Speaker 1: his face. They only wanted to funk him for his personality.
Speaker 1: And then there's an additional scripture some forty five two
Speaker 1: to three describes him as fairer than the children of men,
Speaker 1: so basically which you know, could be I guess left
Speaker 1: up to interpretation that he's more handsome than the children
Speaker 1: of men, or it could just be lighter than the
Speaker 1: children and men it's not particularly clear. But either way,
Speaker 1: these are the only physical descriptions we have of Jesus,
Speaker 1: which means that we are all being pretty silly when
Speaker 1: we go like Jesus looked like me, Jesus looked like this.
Speaker 1: It's like dog, we truly don't know this motherfucker might
Speaker 1: look like an alligator and we we have no wist.
Speaker 1: And that's what I'm thinking. That's what I'm thinking because
Speaker 1: that description you just read about the white, the hair
Speaker 1: as white as wool, and the feat is his feet
Speaker 1: was looked like they were in the furnace meets his
Speaker 1: feet were on fire, like he could be a whole mutant,
Speaker 1: like we our hairpryance to a whole x man. We
Speaker 1: don't even know it. I did a joke with Yamanika,
Speaker 1: were doing the Comedy Seller show and we were talking
Speaker 1: about aliens, and I was like, yo, Jesus is an alien,
Speaker 1: and she cussed me and prayed for me and say,
Speaker 1: don't you call my Jesus, And I said, look at
Speaker 1: the origin story. He come out of nowhere, His mother
Speaker 1: was artificially esseminated by angel. He disappears to like thirty something. Yes,
Speaker 1: he you know, he disappears like he could be he
Speaker 1: could be an alien. Just I'm just saying, could be
Speaker 1: an alien. I think that that's that, honestly, is more
Speaker 1: logical to me than that makes so much more sense
Speaker 1: to me. I'm like, oh, now I get while we
Speaker 1: praise it and they go, we wanted to come back,
Speaker 1: come back alien, I get that. It also makes more
Speaker 1: sense than him being like a member of every race
Speaker 1: on this planet. Do you know what I mean? That
Speaker 1: like Chinese and if you go to China, they have
Speaker 1: Chinese Jesus. If you go to the fucking Ethiopia, they
Speaker 1: have Ethiopian Jesus. If you go to Antarctica, Jesus is
Speaker 1: three penguins stacked on top of each other pretending to
Speaker 1: be a man. It's it's all what we've decided he is.
Speaker 1: And more logically, this motherfucker might just be an alien
Speaker 1: who can shape shift and disappear for a bunch of years. Yo,
Speaker 1: that makes so much sense to me. Listen, That's why
Speaker 1: Stargate is one of my favorite movies. People think it
Speaker 1: was like, oh, it's corny, it was done, and I
Speaker 1: was like, no, it was like low key dropping, like
Speaker 1: great hypothetical, Like what if the pyramids were portals to
Speaker 1: other worlds, Like I love Stargate and so I just
Speaker 1: think it's so much I think it's so much cooler
Speaker 1: living a life, realizing that there's other things greater than
Speaker 1: yourself and that there's never one definitive way. And I
Speaker 1: think that life is about choices, and that's what this
Speaker 1: experience and this journey of our infinite being in this
Speaker 1: universe is. It's for us to come here, experience it,
Speaker 1: learn ship, feel ship, see if you can fucking get
Speaker 1: it right, and if you don't get it right, you
Speaker 1: come back, and if you get it right, you go
Speaker 1: to the next fucking stop on his journey. Right. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like that that that this isn't as much of
Speaker 1: a punitive thing as I think it's sort of is
Speaker 1: being presented, but just the thing where it's like, yo,
Speaker 1: be a decent person, and if this guy's as cool
Speaker 1: as we say is, he's gonna kind of just see
Speaker 1: that and not punish you because you didn't you know,
Speaker 1: count beads necklace or whatever. It is, Like, come on, God,
Speaker 1: why are you gi me toiti if you don't want them,
Speaker 1: get it sucks? Come on and listen, listen. I couldn't
Speaker 1: have said that better myself. I truly the poetry that
Speaker 1: just came out of your mouth. If I could, if
Speaker 1: I could make that the title of this episode, I would.
Speaker 1: I shouted, I'm mad. I broke at the end. I
Speaker 1: was so close to sticking it out. So one of
Speaker 1: the things that that sort of is interesting in all
Speaker 1: of these these depictions that are made of Jesus and
Speaker 1: being sort of made complicated with the tracing of of
Speaker 1: Jesus is also the tracing of colonization. You talked about
Speaker 1: this earlier colonization and missionary work of meaning, like a
Speaker 1: country that was at some point overtaken and are ruled
Speaker 1: by white people is more likely to worship a white Jesus,
Speaker 1: right that Like, if you if your country was dominated
Speaker 1: by white people much in the way that America is,
Speaker 1: white Jesus becomes the standard. Whereas if you go to
Speaker 1: countries where white people have not been the dominant force
Speaker 1: or are no longer the dominant force, Jesus looks like them,
Speaker 1: and it's it's largely just interpretation, not actual documentation of
Speaker 1: a real person. Yeah, one of the things that I
Speaker 1: found particularly interesting is the sort of like resurgence of
Speaker 1: this argument of black Jesus, and fascinating enough, the actual
Speaker 1: the most recent resurgence and the one that sort of
Speaker 1: like reached the biggest argument came from Invisible Ink black
Speaker 1: activist Shaun King. Shaun King. Come now, I know you're
Speaker 1: a big fan of Shaun King's. Don't say anything to
Speaker 1: besmirch his name. But in Shaun King tweeted the statues
Speaker 1: of the white European they claim is Jesus should also
Speaker 1: come down. There are a form of white supremacy. Tear
Speaker 1: them down and tear are down, all the murals and
Speaker 1: stained glass windows of white Jesus and it's European mother
Speaker 1: and their white friends. Your thoughts, you know what, Let
Speaker 1: me tell you something. This is the problem with people
Speaker 1: like Shaun King, right. It is because they talk so
Speaker 1: much noise, right, and for all the things that they
Speaker 1: do wrong, right, they still are in a position to
Speaker 1: give light to situations and conversations that we really should have.
Speaker 1: So it is legit a double edged sword. That's that's
Speaker 1: mistake on Shaun King. So with that being said, I
Speaker 1: understand his argument, but I also believe that the imagery
Speaker 1: at this point is the lease of our problems. And
Speaker 1: I think that the imagery of a black Jesus is
Speaker 1: a bit different than the imagery of motherfucker's who literally
Speaker 1: owned slaves being up in the middle of a town square. Um.
Speaker 1: I think one of those things has applied had hurt
Speaker 1: and harm to us in a way that's very tangible,
Speaker 1: and the other is a figment of a religious whatever
Speaker 1: you know that is not Jesus is not shooting us
Speaker 1: in the back seven times when he comes to a
Speaker 1: not want one call, so Sean picks some mouse. Nigga, Please,
Speaker 1: He's gonna be so happy you called him nigga. I know.
Speaker 1: I'm also mad. I'm mad. I was like, damn, why
Speaker 1: did I say nigga? I am not. I don't mean
Speaker 1: it calling him me just um I, Chloe Hillia did
Speaker 1: not mean nigga in a way that in any shape
Speaker 1: or form insinuated that Shaun King is indeed a nigga.
Speaker 1: It is more colloquial as though it is mainstream at
Speaker 1: this point. With the a at the end, thank you
Speaker 1: forgive me that said. I I agree with you. I
Speaker 1: do think that we've reached this weird point in society
Speaker 1: where we're spending so much time nitpicking representation and and
Speaker 1: sort of like the rules and how many we should
Speaker 1: have that we're starting to work backwards against progress, Like
Speaker 1: I don't need a black friend in fucking uh Sabrina
Speaker 1: the teenage witch, Like black people don't funk with witchcraft
Speaker 1: like that, We wouldn't just kick it with some weird
Speaker 1: girl who has magic powers. Don't create representation where representation
Speaker 1: shouldn't actually exist, leave that as a white space. And
Speaker 1: so in the case of Jesus, because it is never
Speaker 1: to your point, never, he the figure has never done
Speaker 1: anything negative to black people. It's only white people's interpretation
Speaker 1: of his his position that's done bad things to black people.
Speaker 1: I ain't really tripping off of his representation. Now. Is
Speaker 1: it cool to have a black Jesus? Absolutely? I like
Speaker 1: having black people wherever I can get them. But at
Speaker 1: the same time, that ain't some ship I'm willing to
Speaker 1: fight over. I to you, I'd much rather fight over
Speaker 1: changing the laws and the systems at hand rather than
Speaker 1: dealing in like the color of the very nice man
Speaker 1: who gives everybody fit. Yeah, ain't nobody worried about him?
Speaker 1: Ain't nobody worried about him? That's that's That's also why
Speaker 1: I'm like, y'all give this way too much energy. Y'all
Speaker 1: give this way too much energy. It's too much, and
Speaker 1: is it? And you could be living in life and
Speaker 1: doing other things, learning things, making mistakes like growing. It's
Speaker 1: too much other stuff you could be doing other than
Speaker 1: sitting here praying about a rapture. It's like, yeah, well
Speaker 1: you're bound to die. Whether you die the rapture, you die.
Speaker 1: But motherfucking choking on olive it, we're all gonna die.
Speaker 1: Like so what you get burnt up and you don't
Speaker 1: get to die in your sleep? So are you still dead?
Speaker 1: Like and nobody talks about how painful it is to die,
Speaker 1: you know why because they're dead. That's it might not
Speaker 1: even hurt like that, like it's not even hurt you.
Speaker 1: It might legit like you might feel the first thing
Speaker 1: in your body going the shock and you're just gone,
Speaker 1: like you're not going out torches different. But even then,
Speaker 1: like if you get tortured and you die, you might
Speaker 1: have your body. I feel like your brain will shut
Speaker 1: down and be like okay, this is too much and
Speaker 1: then like then you just you know, get torn the limbs.
Speaker 1: But like we're all gonna die. I don't know I
Speaker 1: just cantled my life and fear so one of the
Speaker 1: things that I learned about and sort of unpacking some
Speaker 1: of this stuff. And I'm curious to hear your thoughts
Speaker 1: on this. Have you ever heard of the shroud of Turing? No,
Speaker 1: but you refresh my memory. Okay, the shroud. There's no
Speaker 1: reason you should know this. But apparently the shroud of
Speaker 1: Turin is this piece of linen cloth that was discovered
Speaker 1: in thirteen fifty four, all the way back in thirteen
Speaker 1: fifty four, and it's believed or well some people believe
Speaker 1: and argue that this is the cloth that Jesus was
Speaker 1: wrapped in when he was placed in his tomb. And
Speaker 1: that cloth that they found still apparent, yes, carries the
Speaker 1: imprint of his face on the cloth. Now, when I
Speaker 1: looked up the shroud of Turing and you look up
Speaker 1: this cloth, it's look if if And some people claim
Speaker 1: that this is a complete false, that like the people
Speaker 1: back in thirteen fifty four, we're trolling much as we
Speaker 1: would today. But those who believe it, if you look
Speaker 1: at the shroud of Turn, there's very little argument that
Speaker 1: this imprint is that of a white man. It does
Speaker 1: not look in any way like a white person. It
Speaker 1: looks honestly, more like Luis Guzman rather than like Jared Leto,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. It's just it looks like
Speaker 1: a Puerto Rican man at best, imprinted on this fucking shroud,
Speaker 1: you know what. And stories like that, like that's the
Speaker 1: thing that people cling onto. I remember, you know, remember
Speaker 1: a current affair, And every like once a month there
Speaker 1: was always a story about Jesus and a potato chip
Speaker 1: Jesus and toast one of finds a h baby carrot
Speaker 1: that looks like Jesus and it's just like when And
Speaker 1: that was mainstream. So that's so that was like how
Speaker 1: fanatical people were about the imagery and the mysticism of Jesus.
Speaker 1: That was like every news. That was basic everyday news.
Speaker 1: Don't do that anymore. They don't do that anymore. But
Speaker 1: there was a time in America where like everybody was
Speaker 1: like Christian for real, and so it was okay to
Speaker 1: just like talk about this goofy ship in public and
Speaker 1: not look nuts like baked potato look like Jesus. Like
Speaker 1: get now, you can't even like what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Watch the movie Get Vaccinated, you asshole. We we know
Speaker 1: what this is this game playing like y'all was talking
Speaker 1: like this, and y'all wasn't smoking weed like y'all b
Speaker 1: y'all was bored. So one of the other things that
Speaker 1: sort of like uh emerged and made it very clear.
Speaker 1: And this goes back to our conversation about how playing
Speaker 1: the Bible describes him. But if the shroud of Turin
Speaker 1: is in fact true, one of the other things that
Speaker 1: you can uh sort of like immediately pull from this
Speaker 1: is just how old and ugly Jesus looked for a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old. That if this man was meant
Speaker 1: to be thirty three, he did not age well. He
Speaker 1: has aged badly, and he was not a good looking man.
Speaker 1: And in the slightest now, if Jesus is an alien,
Speaker 1: what if when he disappeared, because you know, in the Bible,
Speaker 1: Jesus like dipped out as a kid, and we don't
Speaker 1: hear about him until he's like grown, right, Like what
Speaker 1: if like what if Jesus that was not his physical body.
Speaker 1: What if he like went into the jungle somewhere or
Speaker 1: whatever the Sahara and got roughed up a couple of
Speaker 1: times and maybe he was a body hop or maybe
Speaker 1: the body that that came back to Jesus. And as
Speaker 1: you know, the grown men, Jesus was like somebody like
Speaker 1: a shepherd's body that the alien Jesus jumped into. Now
Speaker 1: you know how crazy that sounds, Well, it sounds like
Speaker 1: the men in black scenario were exactly that roach was
Speaker 1: inside of that man. And that would explain why he
Speaker 1: looks so puffy and worn. That would definitely explain why
Speaker 1: he looked in He almost like, uh, a rodent level ugly.
Speaker 1: And that's that's the thing for me. It's like, if
Speaker 1: you if you want me to believe your part, you
Speaker 1: gotta be open to believe in my part too. And
Speaker 1: they don't want me to leave my part. I was like, yo,
Speaker 1: if he could turn one into why he could be
Speaker 1: an alien? No he can't. Who the fund turns water
Speaker 1: into wine? Then? And if he wasn't an alien, where's
Speaker 1: our miracles? Yo? They was having miracles every other Tuesday
Speaker 1: in the Bible. Where's our miracle? I ain't seen a
Speaker 1: burning bush? No angel, come talk to me. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. Now times I risk my life, No
Speaker 1: motherfucking omen come and say, my ass, where's our miracle at? Yeah?
Speaker 1: They can can they can make these miracles more contemporary.
Speaker 1: They don't have to be the same as what they
Speaker 1: went through. It could be like a cool dude on
Speaker 1: the skateboard being like, hey, you know you can't get
Speaker 1: three wishes later or whatever. I don't know how it works, man,
Speaker 1: you know what the miracle is finding twenty dollars in
Speaker 1: our pocket. But like, it's a miracle. That's our miracle. Sure,
Speaker 1: And if we wrote it down, we could too be
Speaker 1: like Luke and Paul and the rest of the game. Yo,
Speaker 1: do you know how crazy that Bible would sound like
Speaker 1: three thousand years from now, people being like two to
Speaker 1: say I woke up to seven hundred new followers. It
Speaker 1: was it was a miracles. Jesus did that. Oh, this
Speaker 1: is fun. So there is a book that came out
Speaker 1: in eighteen by this lady named Joan Taylor and archaeologists,
Speaker 1: and the book is named What did Jesus look Like?
Speaker 1: And this is exciting because she she basically studied all
Speaker 1: these archaeological remains of Jews from thousands of years ago,
Speaker 1: historical texts, and ancient Egyptian funerary art to conclude that
Speaker 1: most people in Judea and Egypt around that time, had
Speaker 1: brown eyes, dark brown to black hair, and olive skin,
Speaker 1: and in all likelihood, based on all of this sort
Speaker 1: of collection of data and information, Jesus was about five
Speaker 1: ft five, the average man's height at the time, and
Speaker 1: as as we've already discovered, very very plain looking mm hmmm.
Speaker 1: So they pretty much did the work to figure out
Speaker 1: that he probably looked a lot more like a Middle
Speaker 1: Eastern dude of today more than a random black dude
Speaker 1: or white person for that. But that's but that's going
Speaker 1: to show you how powerful white supremacy is, right because
Speaker 1: they're saying, fuck science, fuck genetics, fuck archaeology, fuck everybody
Speaker 1: that lives in this area. That we're gonna say a
Speaker 1: white Alabasta snow ass nigga lived during this time. He
Speaker 1: didn't even get he's so he's so holy. He didn't
Speaker 1: even get sun tanned. That sounds crazy to me. And
Speaker 1: we're like, yep, yep, he's white as snow. Yep he is.
Speaker 1: He's white as snow, and it's just like it's you know,
Speaker 1: I believe, I do truly believe that there was a
Speaker 1: time in mankind civilization where religion was pure right where
Speaker 1: you and those are those I feel like, are the
Speaker 1: more indigenous face right, they're more closely connected to the
Speaker 1: mother earth in the world and animals, you know, like
Speaker 1: they give a funk about everything. And then somewhere along
Speaker 1: the line, religion became a tool of manipulation and power
Speaker 1: and control, and I think it's been perverted for so
Speaker 1: long that there's no parts of it right now in
Speaker 1: this version that we're being sold that feels true to me.
Speaker 1: It doesn't feel like it protects me. It doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like it gives a funk about me. If it sounds
Speaker 1: like it wants me to suffer for a greater thing,
Speaker 1: and the greater thing is something that I can't even
Speaker 1: fathom in my life and my mind, and so it
Speaker 1: just feels like a lot of like gaslighting essentially. I know,
Speaker 1: I hate that term because it's so overused, but it
Speaker 1: feels like you gotta suffer, especially being a black person,
Speaker 1: you gotta suffer even more. And it's just like I
Speaker 1: remember being young being like what do black people do?
Speaker 1: Why are we so fucking cursed? Like why do we
Speaker 1: have the world? Like if we're praying to God, like
Speaker 1: how you know how much black people pray? And we
Speaker 1: ain't been saved. Yet I ain't get no forty eight
Speaker 1: because I ain't get no mule. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: I said, I pay taxes. I mean I'm black. I'm
Speaker 1: praying every day. My grandmama pray every day. You know
Speaker 1: how much we pray. So I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: either there's nothing there, or black people are the suffering
Speaker 1: of black people, or just people in general praying to
Speaker 1: God is just the fucking battery. Juice go into this
Speaker 1: nigga's back because something may add an up. I I
Speaker 1: I love what you're saying, in part because I think
Speaker 1: that it really just speaks to intention that like we
Speaker 1: have distracted ourselves from the fact that and this is
Speaker 1: worth saying. And maybe everybody knows this, maybe some listeners don't.
Speaker 1: Jesus absolutely existed. This isn't. The question isn't whether or
Speaker 1: not a human being by the name I guess Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: He probably was the named Christ at the time. He
Speaker 1: probably was named something else. But the guy that we
Speaker 1: understand to be Jesus did exist in history. But that
Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily mean that he is everything that we've made
Speaker 1: him into being. And so that all comes with intention.
Speaker 1: The Bible as we understand, it started as an oral history.
Speaker 1: People just said stuff out loud. They would tell each
Speaker 1: other's stories over and over again, and then at some
Speaker 1: point one asshole was like, I should write that down.
Speaker 1: And then that person who wrote it down decided to
Speaker 1: write down the parts that he liked he or she liked,
Speaker 1: and then skip over the parts that they didn't care
Speaker 1: for as much. And then as it got recurated and
Speaker 1: repassed down and sort of like taken over by new
Speaker 1: powerful people, new versions of that passing changed the interpretations
Speaker 1: of all of these things, so that this sort of stubby,
Speaker 1: abless Mexican man turns into fucking you know, Matthew McConaughey
Speaker 1: two thousand years later, and it's it's over. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: We we just aren't being honest about what any of
Speaker 1: this stuff is, and there's no way for us to
Speaker 1: be honest. So to your point, we should really just
Speaker 1: embrace the lesson and ignore the bullshit. Mm hmm, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: But it's hard to do that because that means that
Speaker 1: you would say that people are autonomous, and you can't
Speaker 1: show people if they're autonomous, and so that's the manipulation
Speaker 1: in it all that I can't associate with Yeah, I
Speaker 1: get that, all right. We I think we did it.
Speaker 1: I think we fucked We fucked around and uh and
Speaker 1: fixed black Jesus, or at least made it more messy.
Speaker 1: I don't know what happened, but we're gonna take a break.
Speaker 1: We'll be back with more, Chloe Hillier. The more my
Speaker 1: mama told me, we are back, give me yeah, we're
Speaker 1: back here with mortal You're more. And my mama told
Speaker 1: me that was a clip from Dr Phil where a
Speaker 1: white boy smacked his mom in the face. And they
Speaker 1: want me to believe that that boy is a descendant
Speaker 1: of God. Nope, not in my house. Anyway. We're still
Speaker 1: talking about whether or not Jesus is black, and it
Speaker 1: turns out he's probably uh, some sort of brown that
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with black or white people. But
Speaker 1: he's a nice guy historically. We can agree on that. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: I want to play a game. This is a fun game,
Speaker 1: a classic game on this show, one of our oldest games,
Speaker 1: our literal oldest game. It's a game called white Line Ugly,
Speaker 1: You're disgusting, I'm gonna kill you. Give me two white lies.
Speaker 1: It's a fun game where Chloe I am going to
Speaker 1: introduce to you a white conspiracy theory, a widely held
Speaker 1: white conspiracy theory. And what I would love for you
Speaker 1: to do is just unpack why you think white people
Speaker 1: tend to hold onto this conspiracy theory. What do you
Speaker 1: think is so important to them inside of this thing?
Speaker 1: What are these sneaky motherfucker's up to? You know what
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Yeah, all right, So this is a fun
Speaker 1: one that I had not heard before, but I'm excited
Speaker 1: that it exists. There have been countless sightings of a
Speaker 1: lockness like monster and in a lake called Flathead Lake
Speaker 1: in Montana. Apparently in Montana there are a number of
Speaker 1: have to some of their white people because I don't
Speaker 1: know that black people are allowed in Montana, but a
Speaker 1: number of white people are claiming that there is a
Speaker 1: Lockness monster, a thirty to forty ft long creature in
Speaker 1: Flathead Lake. And what I would love for you to do, Chloe,
Speaker 1: is tell me why you think white people are so
Speaker 1: eager to hold onto this, this fake lockness monster. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So part of it is, I believe when it comes
Speaker 1: to these stories of like mythical creatures, it's like one.
Speaker 1: It started with boredom, right, because there was nothing going on.
Speaker 1: People gotta understand that people lived for longer like people
Speaker 1: have lived without social media, television, phones, newspapers, magazines, and
Speaker 1: books like. People lived way longer like that than have not.
Speaker 1: And so when you have nothing going on but except
Speaker 1: waking up and going to work or going to school
Speaker 1: and coming home and doing that ship over with no
Speaker 1: fucking breaks other than like a county fair or mo
Speaker 1: fucking hog tie or a fucking hatchet throwing whatever corn
Speaker 1: hole bullshit they was doing out there, you make up ship, right.
Speaker 1: And so one day somebody probably saw something that looked
Speaker 1: a little funny style. Maybe it was an animal they've
Speaker 1: never seen before, because then he because don't we got
Speaker 1: the internet. They don't know what every animal look like.
Speaker 1: And then it becomes this folklore thing, and then it
Speaker 1: becomes this pride thing that they turned into a mascot
Speaker 1: for capitalism, because it's like, come here, stay at this hotel,
Speaker 1: see the thing that we have here, and then it
Speaker 1: becomes commerce, right, And so I think that is the
Speaker 1: problem with mankind in general. It's like something starts off
Speaker 1: as a genuine, genuine thought or a misconception and then
Speaker 1: it turns into like this larger than life thing that
Speaker 1: generates income in profit for somebody, and so I think
Speaker 1: a lot of times they don't want to let that
Speaker 1: ship go because it gives them something to brag about.
Speaker 1: Because what you're gonna brag about in Montana is nothing
Speaker 1: to do with Montana. So that's how they differentiate themselves
Speaker 1: from the other town. We got the lockless monster, we
Speaker 1: got the monster locked nests like they just be making
Speaker 1: it up because they and then it becomes business. I
Speaker 1: love what you're saying about the the business aspect of this,
Speaker 1: because there is probably an element of this that did
Speaker 1: come from a a sweet place and maybe sweets the
Speaker 1: wrong word, but just an honest place where a bunch
Speaker 1: of idiots who, like you said, we're bored as funk.
Speaker 1: We're looking at a lake and they're like, damn, what
Speaker 1: if there's a monster in there? And they started to
Speaker 1: tell some people, and other people started to tell some people,
Speaker 1: and it was a fun little game, and then some
Speaker 1: sick fuck saw that happening. It was like, hey, if
Speaker 1: we build a hotel next to this, like while all
Speaker 1: these people are talking, suddenly we can make this into
Speaker 1: something profitable that truly shouldn't be profitable, it should just
Speaker 1: be fund local stupidity. And we always muck things up
Speaker 1: with our own want for for wealth and investment rather
Speaker 1: than just genuine joy. Yeah, have you ever been a
Speaker 1: Rosbell New Mexico? I have is sad. No, everybody got
Speaker 1: a fucking green ass alien front of the store. It
Speaker 1: could be cat cat shopping. Everybody got a fucking alien
Speaker 1: up just because they know that's what the people there for.
Speaker 1: Can you imagine like having to put your hard work,
Speaker 1: your business plan going and getting the loan open up
Speaker 1: a store front for ice cream shop on my fucking restaurant,
Speaker 1: and you you gotta put a fucking green alien out front.
Speaker 1: So the niggas that want to see aliens be like,
Speaker 1: oh they like aliens to let's go eat. I shoot
Speaker 1: myself in the face and you gotta that is fucked up.
Speaker 1: And even more fucked up is at that point you
Speaker 1: have to believe the aliens aren't They're seeing this and
Speaker 1: they're like, well, I'm not going back there. They're making
Speaker 1: it weird like we were. We were just hanging out,
Speaker 1: but now you're making it hot, yo, right, Like this
Speaker 1: was supposed to be a secret. I told you don't
Speaker 1: tell nobody, Like it's like when you sleep with that
Speaker 1: one person, like, yo, we gonna keep this between us,
Speaker 1: somebody like you know, I'm really private. I want people
Speaker 1: in my al right. I got you, nick said, you
Speaker 1: know so I heard you? What spot as You're like yeah, damn?
Speaker 1: And now her and her friends made made you the
Speaker 1: wallpaper on their Twitter. It's like, yo, chill bro, like
Speaker 1: you got a nickname and ship. They called me alien. Yo,
Speaker 1: I went to Earth one time and they called me alien.
Speaker 1: Now disrespected me. You know, I was just I was
Speaker 1: just kigging it. I met a lady, she was cool,
Speaker 1: Let's move on. That's it. Damn. I want to appropriate
Speaker 1: but once or twice and but no, you had to
Speaker 1: tell every body not even looking from me, right, movie,
Speaker 1: do don't know my life? They don't know my story.
Speaker 1: There is something really fascinating too, of like what if
Speaker 1: aliens don't even like probing butts like that. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was just the thing they tried one time, and now
Speaker 1: everybody keeps trying to make it their thing, and it's like, no,
Speaker 1: I was just experimenting. Listen. I I feel sorry for
Speaker 1: the first aliens that came here because they picked the
Speaker 1: wrong specimen. They was picking up all the white people
Speaker 1: in Middle America and them niggas are uninteresting, and now
Speaker 1: niggas is like where the aliens at and they're like, yo,
Speaker 1: we tried jobs, Like no, we're different though you ain't
Speaker 1: trying to special sauce. We have the special sauce. Right.
Speaker 1: It's like if you go to the zoo and then
Speaker 1: you stop at the squirrel exhibit, It's like, no, you
Speaker 1: gotta keep going because yeah, it's back here, silver back,
Speaker 1: silver back, Well glory, I think we did it. This
Speaker 1: is this is a fun episode. Could you tell the
Speaker 1: people at home where they can find you and what
Speaker 1: cool ship you have going on? Absolutely? You can find
Speaker 1: me on Twitter and Instagram. Both are at Chloe Underscore
Speaker 1: Hilliard because I like white Space Underscore Hilliard and if
Speaker 1: you want to know more about me, you can go
Speaker 1: to Chloe Hilliard dot com. I have a book out
Speaker 1: called Fun Your Diet Um. I'm a television writer, producer, comedian,
Speaker 1: so you'll probably see some things that I'm working on
Speaker 1: in the future. And thank you for having me, Lanks
Speaker 1: And it's so good to have a fun adult high
Speaker 1: conspiracy theory conversation. This was one of our least toxic episodes.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad that uh yeah, you know, we get
Speaker 1: some real that makes me feel like I was boring. No, no,
Speaker 1: this was fun and healthy. This was like when you
Speaker 1: find out that carriage sticks can go and hummus, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's like, oh, we're doing we're
Speaker 1: doing great stuff here. But please follow Chloe, do all
Speaker 1: the cool things that you're supposed to do to keep
Speaker 1: up with her, and then you can follow me at
Speaker 1: Langston Kerman and please send us any conspiracy theories you
Speaker 1: have and he drops. You want to send all the bullshit,
Speaker 1: you can send it to my Mama pod at gmail
Speaker 1: dot com. Otherwise that's it, by bitch, because my crop
Speaker 1: chips in your mails. A Koala Bears are racist, the
Speaker 1: old school, old school money turkey stuff. I can't tell
Speaker 1: me