WEBVTT - My Carpenter is Black (with Chloé Hilliard) 0:00:03.520 --> 0:00:06.320 Listen for someone, someone we're not supposed to fun. There's 0:00:06.320 --> 0:00:08.520 a lot of love songs about him. There's a lot 0:00:08.640 --> 0:00:11.080 of love songs about him, and they will not show 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.720 us any versions of him that are ugly. He is 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:17.960 always hot, always as abs. He's a sex symbol that 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:20.840 we can't have sex with him, and men and men 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.800 and women praise him and sing love songs to him, 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:30.720 but they're mad about same sex. Smash Jesus. But I 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:33.720 don't want. I don't want all these men smashing each other. 0:00:33.840 --> 0:00:52.040 That's me and Jesus. Relationship is different. Ship sent us, racists, 0:00:53.720 --> 0:01:03.720 money stuff, I can't tell me. Yep, yep, yep, there 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:07.080 it is, there is. Ladies and gentlemen, Welcome to another 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:12.000 phenomenal episode of My Mama Told Me, the podcast where 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.720 we dive deep, deep into the pockets of black conspiracy 0:01:15.800 --> 0:01:19.120 theories and we finally work to prove that the X 0:01:19.280 --> 0:01:23.320 in Little nas X stands for xylophone. That's right. This 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:27.400 motherfucker is upsetting people left and right. Not only is 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.000 he putting queer images in front of our our innocent, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:35.039 thirty eight year old black men, but more importantly, he's 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.240 coming up with silly Billy ass names like xylophone. This 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.319 guy's a problem. He's a real problem. Boosey's right, everybody 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.520 else is wrong. It's all clear to me. I'm your host, 0:01:44.680 --> 0:01:48.560 Linkston Kerman. I'm coming in hot as always, and and 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.360 you know who's who's not coming in hot? Who always 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:54.320 plays it cool? Never once if by seeing her coming 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:56.960 hot and in a good way. She comes in the 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:00.480 right temperature every time I see her. She's hilarious, an 0:02:00.480 --> 0:02:03.600 amazing comedian and author. You know her from her book 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:07.680 Fuck Your Diet. Hilarious, hilarious person. And I'm so happy 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:13.480 she's here. Give it up for my guests, Miss Chloe Hillier. Yeah, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.000 I make my own sound of face. Hell yeah, you 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.400 know the people in the background ain't good enough. You 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.720 gotta throw in a little extra right at the right 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:27.280 at the end. How are we? What's up? I am great? 0:02:27.440 --> 0:02:30.119 Thanks for having me. It's gonna be so much fun. Yeah, 0:02:30.200 --> 0:02:33.640 it's gonna be a great time. You You came today 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:36.720 with a conspiracy theory. I mentioned this to you already, 0:02:36.840 --> 0:02:40.520 one that I have desperately been wanting to talk about 0:02:40.639 --> 0:02:44.600 for the longest time. It's it's a conspiracy theory that 0:02:44.680 --> 0:02:47.040 I feel like I have heard my entire life that 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:50.639 people have argued about forever, and today we get to 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:52.840 finally talk about it, we get to finally do it. 0:02:52.919 --> 0:02:56.240 And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hold us any longer. 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:07.520 You said, my mama told me Jesus is black, absolutely 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:13.720 one thousand percent, Yes, one thousand you know, come we say. So. 0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.560 The thing is, this doesn't even have anything to do 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.480 so much so with religion as it has to do 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.120 with our parents letting us know, preparing us in a 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:28.480 very naive way, to let us know that white supremacy 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:30.760 is real. But we have to know the truth. M 0:03:32.360 --> 0:03:34.720 and so it's like, forget what everybody else tells you. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:37.640 This is the truth. We have our own truth and 0:03:37.800 --> 0:03:40.000 you can't. And out there you can say you believe 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.480 it to go along with it, but we know the truth. 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.640 And so that's how I always took it as well. 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:46.440 It's like, you know, white people be lying to us, 0:03:46.880 --> 0:03:51.040 we know what's up? WHOA So you're saying, you're saying 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:54.400 that that at its core, this is really more of 0:03:54.800 --> 0:04:00.000 an allegory for for sort of the deceptiveness of whiteness 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.640 is and and their their actions, more than it is 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:08.240 like definitively Jesus had an afro and a pick in 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.280 it kind of thing. Yeah, And also like you know 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.520 what what they did to Jesus is where white society 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.920 does the black people. We can cicifide every day, and 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:20.400 so it's like, so that's why. So that's also why 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.040 black people rock so harward Jesus because we're like, he's us, 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.320 we are him, Like we're walking in the same footsteps 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.880 to struggle the objectification, the slander, all of that, Like 0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:37.680 we're Jesus. That's why black people love Jesus. Oh. So 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:40.719 all of this is just sort of like it's it's 0:04:40.800 --> 0:04:43.960 like how how your favorite rapper goes off from some 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:46.560 ship and you're like, well, I never sold drugs, but 0:04:46.680 --> 0:04:48.760 I know what you're going through, bro, Like I I 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:54.240 connect with the experience and the challenges that you're facing. Yeah, 0:04:55.080 --> 0:04:58.880 and it also it also prepares you for getting your 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:02.320 ass kicked every day in a white side literally because 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:04.160 it's like, yo, Jesus went through this, and I rock 0:05:04.240 --> 0:05:06.880 with Jesus. So am I betting Jesus? Like yeah, I 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.920 guess I'm gonna take this beat in every single day 0:05:08.920 --> 0:05:11.200 because of the color of my skin. But you know, 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.880 I guys Jesus to lean on. I like this. So 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.239 so let's let's trace this back a little bit, because 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.560 I do. I love what you're saying about this being 0:05:19.640 --> 0:05:23.720 sort of like a motivational thing and allegorical thing, a 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:27.440 thing that that drives us to be better versions of ourselves. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.600 I wonder when you first were told that Jesus was black, 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.960 and who was the person that that introduced this idea 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:39.560 to you? Yeah, well, I think for me. So, my 0:05:40.680 --> 0:05:45.120 my parents come from two very different religious backgrounds, right, 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.200 And so my dad's family didn't really go to church 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:51.719 at all, like my grandmother. I remember my dad's mom 0:05:52.120 --> 0:05:56.360 smoked cigarettes, you know, drink, go go to Atlantic City. 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:59.440 You know, she's gambling, all of that stuff, right, And 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.040 my mom's mom was like saved sac factor with the 0:06:03.080 --> 0:06:05.240 Holy ghost. So like my mom was like the church girl, 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:08.280 and my dad was like not like not the street guy, 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.280 but like the not saved person, you know, like he 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:14.440 wasn't like he wasn't like a thug, but he was 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:16.880 just like a world a more worldly dude. And so 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.480 my mom had me in church early, and so I 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:23.360 was always everything was all church all the time. I 0:06:23.520 --> 0:06:26.720 was to go to church every weekend. Uh, sometimes during 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.240 the week. My grandmother only play. Like. I grew up 0:06:29.320 --> 0:06:35.719 in a Christian, Black American household, and so we always 0:06:35.760 --> 0:06:38.880 talked about the Bible. We always talked about Versus. My 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:42.000 grandmother can recite every single verse backwards. You know. I 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:43.560 was in church a lot, and I was in a 0:06:43.640 --> 0:06:47.000 lot of church plays. And so my earliest realization about 0:06:47.080 --> 0:06:50.479 Jesus being black was when we were in the Christmas 0:06:50.520 --> 0:06:53.840 pageant and we had a black baby Jesus. And so 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.440 that was the first conversation I remember having being like, Okay, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:01.159 now listen, we know the world is this, but our world, 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:03.560 our reality is this, and this is what you need 0:07:03.640 --> 0:07:06.920 to know. This is the truth. Damn. Okay. So, so 0:07:07.120 --> 0:07:10.440 you have a black baby Jesus, presumably a child is 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:14.720 acting as a black baby Jesus. And are there white 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.440 jesus Is in your church? Like, is the imagery also 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.160 of a black Jesus? Or do are there white jesus 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:23.000 Is on the wall? They're like, but we got black 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.320 baby Jesus. Yeah. So it was like, I feel like 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.520 most black churches that have white Jesus Is, it's like 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.240 that porcelain Jesus that's like a little pinkish. It's not 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:35.680 it's not white white. So we don't we don't even 0:07:35.880 --> 0:07:38.000 we don't even look at it as white. You get 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:40.840 what I'm saying, right, Like we see it as like, oh, 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.320 he got a little bit of a hand, like it's 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.320 probably dust on that bitch, you know what I'm saying. 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.880 But we're like, this is not a white man how 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:49.480 we think about white men in modern times. Right, No, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:56.160 it's like a bear grills Jesus. He's like outdoorsy Jesus. Yes, yes, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:59.120 So it just was a figure. But then I remember 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:03.680 seeing like the first time I saw black Jesus, because 0:08:03.720 --> 0:08:08.840 you also got to realize black Jesus probably sprung out 0:08:09.280 --> 0:08:12.720 in my lifetime. I'm forty years old, and and that's 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:15.800 I think when black people started saying we can actually 0:08:16.400 --> 0:08:19.520 say it out loud, and we're gonna start showing like imagery. 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:22.640 So I remember the first time we got the church 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.920 fans and it was a black Jesus on the back 0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:26.880 of the church fans, and everybody was like, yo, you see, 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:31.840 we got a black black Because for a while, black 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:34.840 black churches were going along with all the white, white 0:08:34.920 --> 0:08:37.440 Jesus imagery. But there was like a shift. I remember 0:08:37.720 --> 0:08:39.920 when I was like, oh, okay, we we take we 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.000 really claiming this? Yeah, I I similarly, it won't it 0:08:44.160 --> 0:08:46.280 not at all. Similarly, I did not grow up in 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.760 the church, but at some point in my teens I 0:08:49.840 --> 0:08:52.440 actually like went to my mom and was like, hey, 0:08:52.600 --> 0:08:55.000 I think we should start going to church. I made 0:08:55.120 --> 0:08:57.800 sort of like a big decision to be like we 0:08:57.880 --> 0:09:00.520 got the church family, because all my niggas talking about it, 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:02.480 and I want to know what and I and I wish, 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.599 I wish you. I wish I knew you because I'm like, no, 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:08.400 you don't try here. I did it a few years 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:11.160 and learned this was a terrible mistake and I owe 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:17.120 everyone apologies. Oh my god. But that said, even when 0:09:17.200 --> 0:09:22.120 we were attending black churches, I do remember distinctly they're 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.839 being almost exclusively white. Jesus is on the walls and 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:30.439 the pamphlets, all the ship was covered in in the 0:09:30.600 --> 0:09:34.319 white version of him. But I do also remember, and 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:37.199 maybe this was just ignorance of youth, right. I know, 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:38.959 there was never a point in me where I was 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:43.360 like questioning Jesus in terms of his race. It was 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:47.200 more like his moral code, his representation all that stuff. 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:49.920 But it was never like why is Jesus white. It 0:09:50.000 --> 0:09:52.800 was just like I don't know, that's that's who God is, 0:09:53.960 --> 0:09:55.839 you know, And I don't know if that's a good 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.400 thing or a bad thing. I truly, Uh, I'm I'm 0:09:58.520 --> 0:10:01.800 torn every day. But sort of I guess there there 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:06.440 is an element of of de racing Jesus, if that's 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:09.520 a word, Yes, exactly, that's what I meant. That's what 0:10:09.600 --> 0:10:12.280 I mean, Like, yes, we don't even see him as white. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.880 It's just that's Jesus. Yeah, he doesn't even have a race. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:19.679 We don't even think about, Like I don't remember ever 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:24.439 thinking about Jesus's race until there was a moment where 0:10:24.480 --> 0:10:26.439 they was like, no, he's black. And I think and 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.559 I think also honestly, I mean, I don't know. It 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:33.079 could have been before my time, but my childhood. I 0:10:33.160 --> 0:10:36.360 feel like more of the black Jesus talks started happening 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:43.760 as the conservative Christians Evangelicalism started rising, so like right 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.079 around like Jimmy Baker all lit those people when he 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:49.679 was like because you know, white people turned out for 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.160 Jesus like in a weird way all of a sudden, 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:56.160 like it was you know, Catholic, Protestant, and then Boom Christian, Christian, 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.400 Evangelical and all of these like mega churches. And then 0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.640 you know, you gotta see black people talking about our 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:04.840 relationship with Jesus. Now you've got white people talking about 0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:07.600 their relationship with Jesus, talking about their struggle, their strife. 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.880 And now it's like, no, we've we've been struggling to 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:11.920 praying it to Jesus. How come he you're Jesus. Now 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:13.920 now you're gonna use our Jesus against us? And I 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:16.080 think it was came like, you know, we need a mascot, 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:20.680 and it was like black Jesus Jesus like let's let's 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:23.160 it's time to raise him up. So I know, but 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:25.679 it felt it felt like it was a lot of competing, 0:11:25.960 --> 0:11:28.480 like we're the best Christians, No, we're the best, you know, 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:34.040 Like it was weird. It's reminding me of that uh 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:39.320 a few years ago when when uh Megan Kelly, Meghan Kelly, 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:41.199 I don't know how you pronounced this bitch's name, but 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:44.320 but when she came out and she was like, uh, 0:11:44.800 --> 0:11:48.640 Santa Claus is definitively white. And it's one of those 0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:53.240 things that that like again, I had never felt passionately 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.480 about Santa Claus's race, but now that you're saying he's white, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.200 I'll kill you just to make saying to Clause anything 0:12:01.360 --> 0:12:04.280 other than white. I would rather Santa Clause as Filipino 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:08.839 then then accept him as a Caucasian man. Because you 0:12:08.960 --> 0:12:12.199 were speaking to me, is if this fictional character is 0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:15.720 anything other than what we've imagined him to be. Yeah, 0:12:16.280 --> 0:12:18.400 I mean that's like, that's like when when it came 0:12:18.480 --> 0:12:20.520 up with black Annie and he was like and he's 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:24.000 not black, and he was like, and he's not real, real, 0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:26.839 none of it is real. But it's just it's just 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:30.160 so crazy how people, you know, cling to a mascot 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:33.120 and I and I know people are like Jesus a mascot, 0:12:33.200 --> 0:12:36.360 but essentially, you know, you know, essentially, you know, they 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.319 hold on to this this idea of a thing so 0:12:39.559 --> 0:12:42.880 much because it has to be there's right. The only way, 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.960 the only way truly salvation works is if you truly 0:12:47.040 --> 0:12:51.000 believe that you were deserving of salvation, right, and if 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.120 everybody believes that they're deserving a salvation, then you have 0:12:54.320 --> 0:12:57.440 to try and quantify because it's like, well that means 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:00.079 we're all equal. But we can't be all equal. I 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.800 gotta be better than somebody. And then that people pervert, 0:13:04.080 --> 0:13:08.160 they pervert the thing. Well, that's It's one of the 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.200 things that I've always really respected about the Jehovah's Witnesses. 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.760 You know, they put a number on that bad boy. 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.000 They were like, Hut, four thousand of y'all are gonna 0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:20.760 be coolest, fucking the rest of y'all good luck. We 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:23.280 don't know, but we're gonna go. We're gonna go door 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.559 to door to prove our value and make sure that 0:13:25.640 --> 0:13:29.559 we get that spot in heaven. Yeah. But my thing is, 0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.120 I always took it as if y'all know how many 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.040 the number is, why are you trying to get more people? 0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:37.960 You should not want to tell nobody. So therefore, stop 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:41.640 knocking on my motherfucking door. Go keep your secret, nigga. 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.839 Damn listen. I said, I respected a part of what 0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:47.199 they do. A big part of what they do I 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:50.360 find obnoxious and difficult to deal with. But boy, them 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:52.439 putting the number on it, that's the part I meant to. 0:13:53.480 --> 0:13:55.960 It's bold. I mean, you gotta really believe if you're 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.079 sticking to that number, you got to believe. You have 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.480 to and and boy do they demonstrate. I mean, Prince 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:05.880 literally died for his his faith and it ain't great, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:08.600 but I respect the hell out of it. Yeah. See. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:10.360 The other thing is like that when it comes to 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.280 the print stuff, like any religion that is so closely 0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.040 tied to your physical body, it always throws me off 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.200 a little bit, like when they were like, don't wear 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:20.680 you know, don't get tattoos, don't this, And I want 0:14:20.720 --> 0:14:22.800 to be like, yo, this is a fucking tupple ware 0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.320 set I'm in right now, like my body's going somewhere else, 0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:31.840 like y'all treating this shell way too seriously, Like seriously, Yeah, 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:34.400 I'm gonna burn this when I'm done with it. I'm 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.920 literally going to have a person lighted on fire. And 0:14:38.040 --> 0:14:42.400 you and we have proof because people believe this ship 0:14:42.560 --> 0:14:44.920 before and they are called Egyptians. And we got all 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:47.480 the fucking mummies left here because the bodies just didn't 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:50.240 go nowhere, so and they look like ship. They didn't 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:54.360 they didn't get better over time. No, No, that's what 0:14:54.440 --> 0:14:56.040 you do want me to leave behind. No, this is 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:59.240 a vessel, baby, let's rock out. I like that. Let 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.880 me let me ask you you this are would you 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.760 consider yourself a religious person. Now you said you grew 0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:06.720 up in the church, you went through all of it. 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:09.000 Are you a person? Are you still a believer? Are 0:15:09.040 --> 0:15:11.880 you still going to church practicing? Are you like not 0:15:12.240 --> 0:15:17.840 Serve my Nickel? I'm out. Yeah, No, I'm good. Um, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:22.120 I am good. You know I'm good. But I'm also 0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.440 a good person. So that's so so for me, my 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:27.920 moral compass has already been established. So like at my core, 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:31.360 I still have very much Christian values and the way 0:15:31.400 --> 0:15:33.560 in which I engage with people and treat myself, all 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:35.920 that stuff like that is not ship. You know, that 0:15:36.000 --> 0:15:38.960 has not been deterred at all. But what turned me 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:42.200 off from religion was realizing that they were people in 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.320 the pulpit who were preaching who did not have like 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.600 the education and the credentials, the resume, the credit score 0:15:50.080 --> 0:15:53.680 to even be preaching. And then you have people funneling money. 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:55.920 And so when I started to see like the perversion 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:57.960 of it, when I started to see like the business. 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.960 When you know, my grandmother who was like a devout Christian, 0:16:01.040 --> 0:16:04.080 she's ninety one, and you know she watches those like 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.320 Christian shows all day, and so it was around the 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:08.920 time it was around the time I was like in 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.920 high school, I started playing basketball. So basketball got me 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:14.120 out of going to church. That's the only thing that 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.720 got me out of going to church, because because my 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.240 parents were like, oh, well, you know, if she's if 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:21.320 she gets good, then she can get a scholarship that 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.960 hel's of college. So I was like, yo, basketball, like 0:16:24.280 --> 0:16:29.360 you you're you're somebody worth believing in. As far as 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:32.160 if I got to put my money on a hooper, 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:35.320 I'd go. I'd go your route. I know, yeah, I'm 0:16:35.400 --> 0:16:38.760 six one. I'm six one. I started playing basketball ninth grade, 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:41.160 so I was already late. So I wasn't so if 0:16:41.200 --> 0:16:43.480 I had played younger, I would have been a much 0:16:43.560 --> 0:16:46.200 better player. But I was good enough to get the goal, 0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:50.040 which was a college scholarship. And so that's how I 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.280 got at the church. So once you get to once 0:16:52.360 --> 0:16:54.600 you're out of church, and you start like seeing all 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.320 the things, all the things that you used to have 0:16:56.440 --> 0:17:00.600 to abide by, all the conversations around certain things based 0:17:00.640 --> 0:17:04.800 on like, you know, someone else's regrditations from of a text. 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:06.840 You know, like, once you start like being able to 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.639 like take some steps back and look at the bigger picture, 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:11.720 I'm like, yeah, I don't know if this is for me, 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:15.080 Like I get it. Don't kill nobody, don't rape nobody, 0:17:15.240 --> 0:17:17.800 don't feel like I can do that, Like I'll a 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.200 buye by thes in commandments and like you know, fucking 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.480 douce it up. But all that other stuff that all 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.560 that any like that, all of that remix texting like 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.840 I can't, I can't. Yeah, I I similarly. The thing 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.120 and I think I've talked about this before on the podcast, 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.720 but the thing that that got me out of church, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:39.680 and it's it's a very dumb, small thing, but it 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:42.159 felt like a very large thing in my world at 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.560 the time, was we I used to I used to 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:47.640 go like three times a week. Right again, I volunteered 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:50.760 for this ship and I would voluntarily take myself there 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:52.680 three times a week. I feel like you look like 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:54.960 I feel like you low Kia say this, Like here 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:58.120 you say this, I'm like, love torture. You love torture. 0:17:58.160 --> 0:18:00.680 You've got some kinking you, That's what I hear. I 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.960 really at the time, you know what it was, I 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.640 really just fucked with the stories. I was like, man, 0:18:06.720 --> 0:18:09.399 these stories are kind of cool, and I like that, Like, 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:12.240 you know, there's all these like lessons and ship that 0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.040 come out of them. It felt I just like the reading. 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:18.080 But then we would go to these these Bible study 0:18:18.160 --> 0:18:21.600 classes and the lady who taught like the youth group 0:18:22.000 --> 0:18:25.280 Bible study classes, and one day showed a video where 0:18:25.359 --> 0:18:28.440 they were sort of like explaining all the the satanism 0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.920 in in contemporary music. That they were telling you why 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:35.960 every artist that you enjoy is secretly worshiping the devil. 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:39.040 And then at one point it got to John Lennon's 0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:44.360 Imagine and they were telling me how that song specifically 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:48.040 was him equating himself to God. But they're playing the 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:51.919 song and I'm listening to the lyrics and it didn't 0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:54.879 feel like that. It felt like a dude basically being like, 0:18:55.000 --> 0:18:58.480 what if we treated everybody like they might be God 0:18:58.640 --> 0:19:01.400 and therefore respected them and cared for them and blah 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:05.240 blah blah blah blah. And I argued with the lady 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.359 and was like, no, I think there's actually a different 0:19:07.400 --> 0:19:10.440 way to interpret this, and she was like, no, that'sen 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:12.960 You're going to hell if you believe in it. Blah 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:15.760 blah blah. I was like, I can't be here, and 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.879 that's like, that's what really got me annoyed because I 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.840 remember them like telling kids like we going to hell, 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:23.720 and I was like, Yo, my god, I just got here. 0:19:25.200 --> 0:19:27.600 How why are you telling I'm gonna? I just got here? 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.280 Like I didn't even like circle the Son that many times, 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.000 like what are you talking about? And they would be 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:34.800 like they would just it was just like to me, 0:19:35.040 --> 0:19:39.040 I just never understood the fear aspect of it. Right, 0:19:39.080 --> 0:19:40.920 And so if you say this God is great, this 0:19:41.000 --> 0:19:43.159 God is all knowing, I'm never tend to alpha and 0:19:43.200 --> 0:19:46.760 omega and he created us in his image, then why 0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:50.159 is he making us suffer through so much? Why do 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.760 I have to like praise praise and worship? And like 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:55.800 what do it? Like? That means? Just's like a like 0:19:56.160 --> 0:19:58.800 it feels like a sycophanic relationship, you know what I'm saying. 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.399 So like it don't feel love and joy. It feels 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.159 like control, manipulation and fear. And you know, I have 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:08.000 a very controversial take about, you know, the Black Church, 0:20:08.080 --> 0:20:10.880 and I feel like when it comes to African Americans 0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:13.600 and our experience with the Black Church, it was used 0:20:13.640 --> 0:20:16.800 to manipulate us. And so I don't understand how you know, 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:20.440 we are so and that's also why I think Black 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:23.200 Jesus came to be right, So that's also how we 0:20:23.359 --> 0:20:25.840 separate it. So you know, you know, like this is 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:28.159 a bad analogy, but I already brought it up, so 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:32.400 I gotta go with it. This is gonna go so bad, 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:36.320 I might. So you know how like when they say, 0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.159 like a person experiences trauma, like if a young kid 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:41.880 is raped or anything like that, they split their mind off, 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.159 like they disassociate themselves, right, And so I think that 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:50.520 black Jesus is Black Americans way of disassociate themselves from 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:55.800 the Jesus that was used by the slavery times to oppress, manipulate, 0:20:56.119 --> 0:20:59.560 and deteriorate us as individuals. So that's I think is 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:02.160 on other reason why we cling to Black Jesus. Because 0:21:02.200 --> 0:21:04.840 it's like we've given so much to Jesus and that 0:21:05.080 --> 0:21:07.280 kind of hasn't been panting out, but we if we 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:09.800 give it to Black Jesus and maybe we'll have a shot. 0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:13.680 And so it's like this is so so knowing all 0:21:13.720 --> 0:21:16.440 of that, to me, it's just like, yeah, but if 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.000 if it was all the way real, we wouldn't have 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:21.160 to do all of that. We would just be blessed 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:24.119 you know, and it's like, why do I have to 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.640 appease this thing that I can't see, Like were's the love? 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.359 And that? Like, were's the loving somebody waiting? But like 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:33.480 you didn't pray enough, or you didn't worship enough, or 0:21:33.520 --> 0:21:35.879 you didn't give enough tides and that, like where's the 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.520 unconditional love and that? And so that's one thing. And 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.119 the other thing I feel like when it comes to 0:21:40.200 --> 0:21:45.119 Black Americans and in Jesus, is that Christianity as the 0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:49.320 remnants of slavery time was used to teach us as 0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:52.280 a coping mechanism that our life on this plane will 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:59.400 always be shitty for various reasons, which was really white supremacy, ownership, manipulation, kidnapping, genocide, rape, 0:21:59.440 --> 0:22:01.040 all of that ship Like that's the reason why our 0:22:01.119 --> 0:22:05.000 lives are shitty and on earth. And instead of us 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:07.639 being like, well we can just not make it shitty, 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:10.760