1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Anny and Samantha and kind Stuff Will 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: Never Told You production of Virheart Radio forwer Today's book Club. 3 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 1: We're talking about Emily Ladoo's award winning twenty twenty one 4 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: novel Demystifying Disability, What to Know, what to Say, and 5 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: How to be an Ally. This is a practical, approachable 6 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: book filled with quotes from people with all kinds of disabilities, 7 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: that delves into some basics of talking about disability and 8 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: actionable steps to improve these discussions or just your interactions 9 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 1: with people. It also hammers home the point that, like 10 00:00:48,880 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: any community, disabled people are not a monolith and are 11 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 1: individuals with preferences when it comes to things like terminology. 12 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: It's a book that doesn't fall to you for your 13 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: past mistakes, but is asking you to do better and 14 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: giving you the tools to do so. 15 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: Not only are. 16 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: There breakdowns of definitions and schools of thought, but also 17 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: a history, a look into all the ways ableism can manifest, 18 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 1: media representations of disability, and ways to be a better 19 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: ally both outside of and within the disabled community. It 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: tackles complex issues in a way that is easy to digest, 21 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: shines a light on nuances and differences of thought, and 22 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:35,199 Speaker 1: overall just packs so much in despite its short length. 23 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:39,320 Speaker 1: Lado is also clear this is a starting point and 24 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: gives a lot of references or things to follow up 25 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 1: on throughout. I wish I had read it earlier, honestly. 26 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: Here is a quote from the author about the author 27 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: A little about me. I have multiple disabilities, including a 28 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,200 Speaker 1: physical disability, a hearing disability, and mental health disabilities. I 29 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 1: use a wheelchair because I was born with larcen Syndrome LS, 30 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: a joint and muscle disorder that I inherited from my 31 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: mom Ellen, who also has it. You might think that 32 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 1: are both having LS is a tragedy, but we don't. 33 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: And my humble opinion, it's pretty fantastic to have somebody 34 00:02:16,200 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: built into my life who just gets me. And I 35 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,799 Speaker 1: would say, just go read it, like we're going to 36 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: go over some of it in here, But as always 37 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: with these book clubs, we want you to check it 38 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: out yourself, support authors yourself. 39 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:32,640 Speaker 2: But I also think it was it's just a really. 40 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: Useful breakdown of a lot of the the ways people 41 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: run into being too afraid to talk about disability or 42 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: not knowing quite what to say. 43 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,919 Speaker 2: Yes, so go read it, read it. 44 00:02:52,919 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 3: It's not long. 45 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 4: It's available in every as it actually have found it 46 00:02:58,280 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 4: in several libraries too. 47 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it's got cute illustrations. 48 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 4: Great illustrations. Cover is wonderful mm hmmy, very approachable. 49 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: You should definitely read it. 50 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:20,279 Speaker 1: Yes, it's essentially broken into like topics such as terminology 51 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: or allyship or media. 52 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 2: But it really does. 53 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,960 Speaker 1: It packs so much in Like when I left after 54 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:31,800 Speaker 1: I finished, I was, oh, my gosh, I'll absorbed so 55 00:03:31,919 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: much information. 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 2: This was great. Yeah. 57 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's kind of the layout of it. But 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 1: we will go over as we like to do in 59 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: our book club episodes and themes. One I would say 60 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: is that it's just very informative. It's like around the 61 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:55,800 Speaker 1: basics of talking about disability or just knowing about disability. 62 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 1: So here's a quote one billion more than one billion 63 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: people around the world are disabled in fact, or the 64 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: world's largest minority. And that comes constantly into play with, 65 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: as we said, a community not being a monolith and 66 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,600 Speaker 1: people having these differing ideas about how we should talk 67 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: about things in the language we should use, and that's 68 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: all really healthy discourse. But it's a huge it's a 69 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 1: huge community, and as we've discussed before, you can also 70 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: be temporarily able person. You might like break your leg 71 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 1: and then suddenly you'll you'll be thinking about ramps or 72 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: stairs or something like that. 73 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 4: Right, there's definitely a lot to that. And then also 74 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,960 Speaker 4: that conversation, like even with aging, that that becomes a 75 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,480 Speaker 4: conversation about like your abilities and you're no longer able body, 76 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 4: quote unquote. And I think this is such a timely 77 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 4: of course, this month is very very important, why we 78 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 4: need to talk about it, and we should really highlight 79 00:04:56,400 --> 00:05:00,119 Speaker 4: more information about it. But like especially in conversations with 80 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 4: the recent bills passed again it's twenty twenty five, and 81 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 4: they co opting the word able body, which. 82 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 3: Really pisses me off to no wind. 83 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: Really forgetting the years and years of work that disabled 84 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 4: activists have been doing and talking about what able body 85 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 4: meanings versus what it isn't and how it's being weaponized 86 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 4: and why this could be a problem, especially when we 87 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 4: talk about working and having equal rights all these things 88 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,800 Speaker 4: as well as benefits, and why that is important for 89 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:30,560 Speaker 4: the disabled community. 90 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,919 Speaker 3: And that it should be a human right. And this. 91 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 4: Bill has gone backwards. So I would really love to 92 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 4: hear Emily's take, because in this book. I feel like 93 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 4: she packs a lot in we talk about it. It 94 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 4: feels almost overwhelming because you do hear the back and 95 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 4: forth of like, Okay, so I'm not supposed to do this, 96 00:05:46,120 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 4: but I'm supposed to do this, but I did do this, 97 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 4: but this could be wrong to this person, which she 98 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 4: reiterates oftentimes that this is a personal preference in what 99 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 4: she's speaking, specifically the dos and don'ts, But like everybody's 100 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 4: an individual, and if you're truly in tune with that 101 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:06,640 Speaker 4: conversation and in that alignment, just like you would ask 102 00:06:06,680 --> 00:06:09,839 Speaker 4: anybody pronouns wise, like all of that, that we should 103 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 4: ask their preference in how things are spoken, because different 104 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 4: people have different takes, which takes lot she talks a 105 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 4: lot about, So I know we're going to get into 106 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 4: two ideals I guess labels that I didn't really think 107 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:25,520 Speaker 4: much of until she did it. But I think, yeah, 108 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 4: all of this is so very important, very but still introductory, 109 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 4: and I think that has a lot to do with 110 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:34,520 Speaker 4: our ableism that is so ingrained in us, just as 111 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 4: much just misogyny is, like we talk a lot about, 112 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 4: like the internalized misogyny that was hard to let go of, 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 4: but we have to talk about the internalized ableism that 114 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 4: we don't think about and oftentimes we excuse us. Eh, 115 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 4: they understand, but that's a problem that shouldn't. 116 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 2: Be the fact. 117 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 4: But I know I'm going too far into this. There's 118 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 4: a lot there was, Like there's this back and forth 119 00:06:55,960 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 4: of every chapter, every page, saying something and then like 120 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 4: kind of reiterate another point. And you're trying to figure 121 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 4: out for yourself where you think you aligned, which is 122 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 4: a little bit selfish, but at the same time trying 123 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 4: to become. 124 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 3: Educated or more educated even before. 125 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,800 Speaker 4: Because some of these things that we've talked about before, 126 00:07:12,800 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 4: we've talked about activists and their preferences and their understanding, 127 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,840 Speaker 4: but like in understanding that we still have to take 128 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,960 Speaker 4: apart some of the others such as like an infantilizing 129 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 4: such as the fear of doing something wrong. You know, 130 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 4: all these things which holds you back into not want 131 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:31,040 Speaker 4: to interact with people. 132 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 3: With disabilities, and it's just a it's overwhelming. 133 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 4: But Sheily does a great job in trying to break 134 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 4: those down. 135 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,679 Speaker 1: She does, and she's very it's it's when the book 136 00:07:43,760 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: opens she says, you know, I wish I didn't have 137 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:49,400 Speaker 1: to do this but we've got to do it because 138 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,400 Speaker 1: nobody's talking about it. And these are these basics. But 139 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: she's also very I don't think non judgmental. I don't 140 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: I don't know what the right word is. But she's like, 141 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: I want you to learn more. I'm not trying to 142 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: shame you. I'm trying to say, we've all been taught 143 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: disablest ideal, all these ableist ideals, and I want us 144 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 1: all to become move on from that how we can. 145 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: So she constantly saying like there's not going to be 146 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: a test at the end. 147 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, like it's going to be. We're gonna get through this. 148 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 4: And also she allows for mistakes, yes, And just in 149 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 4: the same conversation we had with Joey when we talk 150 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 4: about like pronouns and understanding that you know, gender maybe 151 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 4: not as it seems, especially for specific people, and then 152 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 4: like trying to come into that and understanding that and 153 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 4: being a person who is learning, uh, these new languages 154 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,719 Speaker 4: that that they've always existed, but previously we had a 155 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 4: different mindset and understanding about it. And as we learn 156 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 4: more and more and understanding that we are celebrating things 157 00:08:56,920 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 4: and therefore in celebration we also have to acknowledge where 158 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 4: this uh, where the knowledge is coming from, acknowledge the 159 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 4: knowledge in saying like I think we have oftentimes here 160 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 4: when people like say things like I don't like this, 161 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 4: I don't want this. This is offensive, and people are like, well, 162 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 4: if you're so mad about it, then do something about it, 163 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 4: and they have. Emily has like, I think that's the 164 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 4: kind of thing about The bigger question is before, before now, 165 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 4: we wouldn't even allow that, we wouldn't even hate that 166 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 4: as a as a knowledge, as information, as facts that 167 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 4: we need to understand. So there's so much to that 168 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,559 Speaker 4: that she gives us. And in this I think she's 169 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:41,280 Speaker 4: very understanding that it's still a stepping stone to unlearned 170 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:45,560 Speaker 4: something is just as difficult to learn something. But we 171 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 4: all need to understand in this, in this pathways that 172 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:56,000 Speaker 4: we're going to be wrong, acknowledge those wrongs, apologize honestly, 173 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 4: and then learn and grow with it. And that's that 174 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 4: her part that she's trying to say. I think in 175 00:10:03,200 --> 00:10:06,760 Speaker 4: this level of like, yeah, when you're not in this. 176 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 3: World, it's it's something that you have to learn. 177 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: Yes, And she's very open about instances in which she 178 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: has made mistakes. 179 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:22,800 Speaker 2: So She's also she makes clear. 180 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: That she wants this to be an accessible book in 181 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: terms of it is let's just start. 182 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 2: At one oh one and and. 183 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: Writes it very clearly and is not testing you, but 184 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 1: it's just giving you this tool, but like honestly giving 185 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:45,839 Speaker 1: these tools because I remember you and I have had 186 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: discussions about we were worried about using the wrong the 187 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:57,840 Speaker 1: wrong terminology. We just and I remember lamenting to Eves 188 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:00,040 Speaker 1: once this isn't what we do. But I remember I 189 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: re lamenting to Eaves once that I felt like nobody 190 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: talks about things they think are too tough to talk about. 191 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 1: And I think disability falls in that for a lot 192 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: of people, because they're so we've been so indoctrinated with 193 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,719 Speaker 1: this idea that you don't talk about. 194 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:21,200 Speaker 4: It right, that you silence it, and it's an impolite, yes, 195 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,600 Speaker 4: to even acknowledge it. M She even talks about the 196 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,280 Speaker 4: historical context of having some terms that really go back 197 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:34,360 Speaker 4: to using them as entertainment only and if not to 198 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: be silenced and put into the like to the darkness, 199 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 4: essentially like put away where you couldn't find that. And 200 00:11:39,840 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 4: we know that's been a historical thing all over the world. 201 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 4: In the fact that still kind of happens. Of course, 202 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,960 Speaker 4: that goes along also with eugenics. 203 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: She does touch onto that, if I remember correctly. 204 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 4: Yes, But of course that's not the entire book, although 205 00:11:55,559 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 4: that's a clear reminder of why these conversations are so 206 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 4: important that we don't do that again, don't. 207 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 3: We don't fall back to that oral less see when 208 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:05,959 Speaker 3: it's coming. 209 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,480 Speaker 1: Yes, she does talk about she has a history section, 210 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: which she is very clear is very abbreviated and just 211 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 1: a jumping, jumping off point. But she does talk about 212 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,559 Speaker 1: eugenics and the history of that. 213 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 2: She also does talk about. 214 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:28,960 Speaker 1: Disability and intersectionality and privilege a lot because she's a 215 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: white woman in a wheelchair, so she just talks about 216 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,760 Speaker 1: the differences and how she's treated versus other people. But 217 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: she also talks about judgment within communities. Again, this is 218 00:12:42,080 --> 00:12:47,199 Speaker 1: the largest minority community in the world, so can't really 219 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 1: escape it. I could talk about that in the LGBTQ 220 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: plus community ad nauseum. But I think people sometimes if 221 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: they're outside of the community, assume like everybody agrees. 222 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 2: But that's not the case. 223 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 1: But yes, she also talks about ableism, right, Yes. 224 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 4: And we got a quote here and it says, but 225 00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 4: ableism takes a heavy toll. Too many disabled people have 226 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 4: been led to believe that our very lives are not 227 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 4: worth living. And if there's one thing, just one that 228 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 4: you take away from reading this book, let it be this. 229 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:37,719 Speaker 4: That line of thinking is unequivocally untrue. Disabled lives are 230 00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:38,560 Speaker 4: worth living. 231 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:40,800 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, she. 232 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,679 Speaker 4: Was talking about some tropes and any and I've actually 233 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 4: talked about this specific movie before and I refuse to 234 00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 4: watch anything like this because it is there's something too 235 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:56,040 Speaker 4: that's like, uh, why, I've seen many of people who 236 00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 4: are entirely happy and are fine, I think this and 237 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,319 Speaker 4: the same trumpe as like it's the end of their lives. 238 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 4: Tips like they're angry, they're hostile, they're all bitter about. 239 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 3: The world, and that's not true. 240 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 4: It's the same thing with like Forrest Gump, Like I say, 241 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 4: he eventually does find his joy, but this like trope 242 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 4: of like I'm angry because of this, this and this. 243 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 4: I'm like he probably has more ptsded and anger. But 244 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 4: you know whatever, uh, and and understanding. There's just so 245 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 4: many people who would be seemingly able body who are 246 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,880 Speaker 4: going through tough times and probably are are talking about 247 00:14:38,920 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 4: how they feel like life is not worth living because 248 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,720 Speaker 4: of a like sepal wisom. But then that's the same thing. 249 00:14:44,760 --> 00:14:46,680 Speaker 4: It's kind of like that level of like the reasons 250 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 4: are not because of this, The reason is because of this, 251 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,320 Speaker 4: like you know, like the differing it doesn't matter necessarily, 252 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 4: and the way that we have to be like, oh no, 253 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 4: but you have to be so unhappy because you can't 254 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 4: do the A, B or C, which is so it 255 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:02,119 Speaker 4: is truly offensive. 256 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've talked about a lot of those. We'll 257 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: come back to some of those tropes later. But it's 258 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: sort of the like overcoming disability or fixing disability or 259 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 1: praying over disability. 260 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:18,960 Speaker 3: But she told me like she talks about being prayed over. 261 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 3: I was like, no, he's a kid too. 262 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,720 Speaker 1: But we are going to talk about some of the 263 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: because one of the points she also makes is that 264 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 1: you know, if we had if things were accessible, if 265 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: the government was providing for us, like then we wouldn't 266 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 1: have perhaps so much anchor, Like it's not coming from 267 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: the disability necessarily, it's coming from the lack of support. 268 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 4: Lack of support like, oh, we're going to talk so 269 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 4: much more about that. But I also think about the 270 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 4: fact that she talks about her dad, you know, and 271 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 4: finding that No. 272 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,360 Speaker 3: He's a normal person who loves his family. 273 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 4: I don't understand why there's pity on him or like 274 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 4: extra good for you, like extra awards or for him 275 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 4: for me. And it's just there's just this level in 276 00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:19,200 Speaker 4: that conversation too. But she talks about but what about 277 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 4: the fact that you know, my mom and I are able 278 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 4: to bring this type of joy in and he loves 279 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 4: like we love him as which he loves us, and 280 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 4: we are an equal relationships, Like this is a necessary 281 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 4: tone to take and when it's just like, no, but 282 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,240 Speaker 4: this is a marriage for family, I don't understand why 283 00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 4: you're doing this in that level of well, like we 284 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 4: are happy, we are a happy family, and we have 285 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,240 Speaker 4: just just the same stress, Like we have just as 286 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 4: much stress as the next family. 287 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't really need to comment on you honestly. 288 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: Okay. 289 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 1: So that does bring us to the terminology, which I 290 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: really appreciate it because we have gone back and forth. Yes, 291 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:04,399 Speaker 1: so here's a quote. There's one thing we should address 292 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: right away. We need to stop using the word handicapped. 293 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:10,239 Speaker 1: It's an outdated term that's fallen out of favor with 294 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: most disabled people, and quite frankly, it makes my skin crawl. 295 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:17,000 Speaker 1: Occasionally I'll find myself saying things such as handicapped bathroom 296 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: or a handicapped entrance because old terminology dies hard, but 297 00:17:21,480 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: there are better words to use. Talking about a person 298 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: disability is better than handicapped, pointing out a parking spot 299 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: with the blue lines it's accessible parking. And then she 300 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: also breaks down. So this is what we really have been, like, 301 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:39,840 Speaker 1: what should we do? Person first language versus identity first language? 302 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: So person first language would be something like person with 303 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,640 Speaker 1: a disability to stress that they are a person who. 304 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 2: Happens to have a disability. 305 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 1: Identity first language would be something like disabled person, where 306 00:17:51,640 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: the disability is a part of their identity. People have preferences, 307 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: but neither are wrong, And a running scene throughout this 308 00:17:59,720 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: book is just politely ask if you're not sure or 309 00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: you know, perhaps they might correct you, and don't be 310 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 1: defensive about it. 311 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 3: Right, and that, yeah, that was that bigger point. 312 00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 4: It's like, if they correct you, if they care enough 313 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:15,879 Speaker 4: about you and care enough to have a relationship with 314 00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 4: you to be like, eh, I would rather you say 315 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 4: this about me, then you listen to that. My initial 316 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 4: reaction to any of body that corrects me, I freak out, 317 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:28,679 Speaker 4: thinking that I've done the worst thing ever, and then. 318 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 3: I spiral for days and just want to rod away. 319 00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 4: But she even makes a point about that, and she 320 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:39,359 Speaker 4: was like, don't make this about yourself, and I was. 321 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 3: Like, well, damn, so there there's a lot to that. 322 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 3: But really that's because. 323 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:48,639 Speaker 4: She was just like, it's just it's and it's fine, 324 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 4: Like it means just as much if you listen and 325 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 4: respect that and then learn from that from then on. 326 00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:55,440 Speaker 3: And I think that's back and forth. 327 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 4: Is like as a show that we do, we talk 328 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,920 Speaker 4: and make this about us, but trying to get it correctly. 329 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,800 Speaker 4: This is why I think like things like the activists 330 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 4: around the world, when I talk about them, I take 331 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:10,159 Speaker 4: what they label they have labeled. Often I will quote 332 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 4: them in order to get it correctly. Of course, people 333 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:15,040 Speaker 4: are like, why do you have them on the show? 334 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 4: We would love to, We would love to for the 335 00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:20,639 Speaker 4: short segments, it's not worth their time. But in the 336 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 4: biggest simms, we do love those types of interactions. Sometimes 337 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:26,399 Speaker 4: we just have too much on our plate. All of 338 00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 4: that to say, having that being able to see that 339 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,239 Speaker 4: and if you don't have that, to ask that or 340 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:37,320 Speaker 4: to say I apologize without pronunciations. We talk about this, 341 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,640 Speaker 4: we're we try to do it. Sometimes we just can't 342 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,280 Speaker 4: get the correct ones. And unfortunately we are single person 343 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 4: or two peoples, and we do best with what we have. 344 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 4: But I absolutely appreciate when people do correct us and 345 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,880 Speaker 4: doing this correctly. I have been saying handicap still because 346 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:57,959 Speaker 4: that is the old language, but now, not knowing this, 347 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 4: I know it's gonna take me a minute. That's going 348 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 4: to take me a minute, and you probably have to 349 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 4: correct me in some things because I'll be like, okay, accessible, 350 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 4: that makes sense. But late we don't know, and later 351 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,000 Speaker 4: in life, like ten years from now, that might change 352 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 4: through it and that's okay. 353 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:14,600 Speaker 3: We just roll with the times. 354 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is what we wrote about in the preface 355 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,359 Speaker 2: to our book. 356 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 1: By the way, we were like, right now, this is 357 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,879 Speaker 1: how people are talking about these things, but it could change, 358 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: and that's not that right. 359 00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 2: Other things that. 360 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,560 Speaker 1: Happened that the author talks about, and these chapters are 361 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: hitting disabled people against each other, so low functioning versus 362 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: high functioning when it comes to ability, and all of 363 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,040 Speaker 1: that being kind of set to the standard of normal right, 364 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:53,440 Speaker 1: which what is that right? A parent versus not a parent, 365 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:59,480 Speaker 1: which is visible versus invisible. So some people have disabilities 366 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:05,119 Speaker 1: that you can't see on first glance or something, but 367 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: pittying that against each other. And then there's medical model 368 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,399 Speaker 1: versus social model. So here's a quote. The social model 369 00:21:12,440 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 1: emerged as a response to the incomplete perspective of the 370 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,960 Speaker 1: medical model. According to the social model, people are disabled 371 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,880 Speaker 1: not by medical conditions, but by environments, attitudes, and systems 372 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: that create barriers. As an example, through the lens of 373 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: the social model, I can attribute my status as disabled 374 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: to an environment that isn't wheelchair accessible, rather than my 375 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:37,080 Speaker 1: medical diagnosis. So this is sort of like if everywhere 376 00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,640 Speaker 1: was accessible, then. 377 00:21:41,320 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: I wouldn't have a disability because I. 378 00:21:42,680 --> 00:21:45,840 Speaker 1: Could get anywhere, you know what I mean. So I 379 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:51,480 Speaker 1: thought that was a really interesting debate that people have. 380 00:21:52,880 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: And then there's also common judgments or misconceptions. So here 381 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,680 Speaker 1: is one of I think my favorite quotes. It's important 382 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: to remember that if you've met one disabled person, you've 383 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: met one disabled person, and if you have a disability, 384 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: then the only disability experience you're an expert on is 385 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: your own. Yeah, I think that's good to keep in mind. 386 00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 4: Right, and also even with someone else that has made 387 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 4: a similar diagnosis, that's different. Your persons and your treatments 388 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 4: are going to be completely different m a lot of 389 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 4: the times. So you can't put that onto that person 390 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 4: tell them they're doing something wrong. 391 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And that's she. 392 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: Like we said, she has a lot of quotes from 393 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 1: other people with disabilities throughout the book, and she'll say 394 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,280 Speaker 1: sometimes like I disagree with that, but I get where 395 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,919 Speaker 1: they're coming from, and I think that that's important to 396 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,680 Speaker 1: be like, Okay, well that's your life, and I respect 397 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 1: that decision. And that's not how I feel, but I 398 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: respect that message. It's not hurting me. Also, it does 399 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:22,280 Speaker 1: delve into, yes, using disability as an insult, and this 400 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,200 Speaker 1: was something that I knew. 401 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,040 Speaker 2: It didn't surprise me, but I was like. 402 00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. 403 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 2: So many of the stories she shared. 404 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:42,440 Speaker 1: What what people making these unsolicited like jokes, uh, praying 405 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 1: a child, praying over her, unwarranted, unasked leaning on someone's 406 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,000 Speaker 1: wheelchair without asking, not knowing them, which I hadn't thought 407 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: about how invasive that was until I read this, and 408 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that's real. 409 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,400 Speaker 4: That's such an odd thing because that's someone's I mean, 410 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,679 Speaker 4: for her, that's how she moves, that's a part of her. 411 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:05,359 Speaker 4: But for me, in like before I read that, I 412 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 4: was like, oh, absolutely, which I should have thought of 413 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,120 Speaker 4: it that way. But in my head, it's also their property. 414 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,879 Speaker 4: They pay for this, you know, like this is costly equipment. 415 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,199 Speaker 4: I like, I understand that. Why would you like it 416 00:24:19,280 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 4: just doesn't seem and also you who don't know how 417 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,240 Speaker 4: stable it is, how it functions, there may be this 418 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,240 Speaker 4: like type of manufactures, you know, like you never know 419 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:28,959 Speaker 4: because people have to do with what they have. Unfortunately, 420 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,800 Speaker 4: because this country is when it comes to again disability 421 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 4: rights and providing the right stuff and equipment and oftentimes 422 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 4: we'll give you with the most minimal thing and also 423 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 4: like allowing for abilities and so if you know, you 424 00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 4: don't know, you don't know what this is. So to me, 425 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,120 Speaker 4: I'm like, what even in like a hospital, when they 426 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 4: have the ones that are like kind of more accessible 427 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,919 Speaker 4: for uh, the the actual hospital to use themselves for 428 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 4: different patients, I would not touch those. Yeah, So that 429 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:04,879 Speaker 4: just baffled me in first place. 430 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,639 Speaker 5: I was like the audacity, Yeah, especially if because she 431 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 5: makes clear like you know you might have a friend 432 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 5: you're cool with and you've communicated with, Yeah, that's okay 433 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:19,360 Speaker 5: for you to do, but like strangers. 434 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 4: Yeah even still like you're like, m like the only 435 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 4: way is like if you had permission to be like 436 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 4: do you want me to push you here and there? 437 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,440 Speaker 4: And then I put something like with yours something do 438 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 4: you mind holding this or do you mind. 439 00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 3: Like as with anything like that? 440 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 4: Just yeah, odd odd some of these things that she 441 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 4: was and of course like of course because people have 442 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,919 Speaker 4: Noku and also the ableism and those really have this 443 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:44,679 Speaker 4: like level of like yeah, this is part of my 444 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:47,480 Speaker 4: you're in my space type of thing, or you're taking 445 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:50,040 Speaker 4: like there's so much to this in this conversation again 446 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 4: of like entitlement, but like yeah, I just could not 447 00:25:53,640 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 4: imagine the leaning on somebody's wheelchair, which can and why why? 448 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,000 Speaker 3: And I thought they were there was this whole thing 449 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 3: where like. 450 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 4: I don't know if you saw this debate, and I 451 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 4: know you shouldn't be part of the book club, But a 452 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,960 Speaker 4: woman is at the Disney World saw a really cute 453 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,840 Speaker 4: pink wheelchair and she decided she would to take it 454 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,800 Speaker 4: because her daughter was tired. It was sitting in front 455 00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,359 Speaker 4: of somewhere and everybody was like, uh, you just took 456 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 4: someone's property, what the like? And it just sparked the 457 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,159 Speaker 4: whole debate about like who has like who's this and 458 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 4: who's that? And they're like, no, Disney definitely has their own, 459 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,600 Speaker 4: and I think they do have like their own, but 460 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 4: you also have to check them check them out. 461 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,040 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I'm pretty sure you have to check them out. 462 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 3: And so I'm like, why was still what the is someone? 463 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,359 Speaker 3: If you you're just tired, why would you why would 464 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,919 Speaker 3: you do this? Why would you do? Yeah? 465 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? 466 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,600 Speaker 4: And also I get very frustrated with people who's part 467 00:26:55,640 --> 00:27:01,600 Speaker 4: too close to handicap spaces because they they may need 468 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 4: they need that extra space, you don't know why. Therefore 469 00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 4: they are again the invisible disability stuff like. 470 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 3: They may have why are you in anybody's business? 471 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: People love policing that, and I'm not to say people 472 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: will abuse it, but when my dad had like a 473 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 1: cancer and he had the handicap, people would come up. 474 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: They'd be like, you look, fine, he's got he had 475 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 1: a cane and everything, but they would come up to 476 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 1: him and I'm like. 477 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 6: Jez okay, again the audacity and does and then again 478 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 6: She's right, it doesn't make sense that this is people's 479 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,240 Speaker 6: business or this is people's entitlement, and it's more likely 480 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 6: to happen to the people of the disability community like 481 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,200 Speaker 6: it may yeah. 482 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,399 Speaker 7: Why yeah, And she does talk about I think a 483 00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,719 Speaker 7: lot of people are trying to prove that they're like cool, 484 00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 7: like they're not. 485 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: I see your disability and I can lean on your 486 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,359 Speaker 1: wheelchair because I'm not freaked out by it. But the 487 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 1: truth is, you're not handling it well. You're making the 488 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 1: person uncomfortable and you're making it all about you. Like 489 00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:10,879 Speaker 1: I think it's kind of that vibe of like both 490 00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 1: laziness or like not caring, but also trying to prove 491 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,080 Speaker 1: oh but I'm an ally when you're really the opposite 492 00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: doing the opposite thing. 493 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 4: The same thing is again the prayer thing, like we 494 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,360 Speaker 4: really are telling them there's something. You're telling them there's 495 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:32,040 Speaker 4: something wrong with you. Like that's that's such a judgmental level. 496 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 4: Feel like, first of all, we all know how we 497 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:39,080 Speaker 4: feel about this type of religion anyway, but the audacity 498 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:46,200 Speaker 4: to do that as well as people who have the impoliteness, 499 00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 4: I guess, the again, the able ism to think that 500 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:50,840 Speaker 4: you have the right to speak. 501 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,800 Speaker 3: On someone else's disability once again, whether. 502 00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 4: It's to ask tons of questions that is not your 503 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,400 Speaker 4: business or be like, oh, I'm trying to do the 504 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 4: whole I relate, I want so well. Once upon a 505 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:02,920 Speaker 4: time I stuffed my toe type of thing. Type of 506 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 4: conversation you're like, this is this is odd, like in 507 00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,600 Speaker 4: order to like to be like, oh, I'm I'm I 508 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 4: understand you type of thing like. 509 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 3: That's not empathy, that's that's odd. 510 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,200 Speaker 4: But as well as like the people who are like, yeah, 511 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 4: but I'm sure you'll be fixed soon. I know God, 512 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 4: God has plans to do this for you as if 513 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 4: again that like over patronizing of like pity and sympathy 514 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 4: when no one asked for that, and again a lot 515 00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 4: of like the bigger conversation, it's like, no, you know you, 516 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 4: what you really need to be pity about is calling 517 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,440 Speaker 4: your congressman and telling them this is like I need 518 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,040 Speaker 4: medicaid without loss of this and having a job or 519 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 4: having an earning and all these things like this is 520 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,120 Speaker 4: the wrong way to go. You are not looking at 521 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 4: what the big problem could be and solving for me 522 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: the person who is disabled, or for a disabled person 523 00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 4: so it's such just a whole thing. 524 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,480 Speaker 2: Mm hmm. Yeah. 525 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: And I think that's really the truth of it is 526 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: they don't want to solve the problem of it, and 527 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: they don't want to look at in the eye or 528 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: admit the truth of yes, we're not helping or supporting people. 529 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 4: Right. 530 00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: But also if somebody prays over like if you if 531 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,080 Speaker 1: you're none of our listeners did this, but if you did, 532 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: that's something where you're essentially I would feel I'm not 533 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: saying everyone would feel this way, but then I would 534 00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: feel like you're telling me God made me this way, 535 00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: perhaps because I did something wrong, right, and now I'm I. 536 00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:43,280 Speaker 2: Must depend on prayers to fix what's wrong. 537 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,240 Speaker 1: That's is just a terrible thing to do somebody who's 538 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: just going about their day. 539 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:47,840 Speaker 4: Man. 540 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:49,800 Speaker 3: There's also this lettle like, yeah, do you really think 541 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:52,680 Speaker 3: you're perfect just because you have this one ability that 542 00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:53,320 Speaker 3: I don't have? 543 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 4: Baby, I think you need to look at me or 544 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:57,640 Speaker 4: to start praying for yourself if you really want to 545 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 4: fix them. 546 00:30:59,040 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 2: I did. 547 00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: I did a She made that point several times, like, 548 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,320 Speaker 1: not everybody's the everybody has different abilities that they can 549 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:08,520 Speaker 1: do the same thing, right, But yes, she also does 550 00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 1: have a chapter on media, and I just want to 551 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: throw in here she was on Sesame Street. You can 552 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,640 Speaker 1: still find the clip. I found it earlier today. She 553 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:20,720 Speaker 1: was on there as a child. But she does get 554 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 1: through a lot of the tropes, some of which we discussed. 555 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: Inspiration porn might relate to what we've just been talking about. 556 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: It's kind of idea of able bodied people making themselves. 557 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:32,480 Speaker 2: Feel better, right. 558 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,760 Speaker 4: I think she takes it a one step further saying 559 00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 4: pity porn. And we've talked a lot about this, whether 560 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 4: it's like, oh, you're so inspirational, this, this is the 561 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,200 Speaker 4: only thing you have, right, so brave, you're so brave 562 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:53,440 Speaker 4: for existing type of conversation. Again, like, there's so much 563 00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 4: to this layers because we talked about that with people 564 00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 4: like who've gone through a hard life and as a 565 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,560 Speaker 4: queer person, as a person of color, so like all 566 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,120 Speaker 4: of these things that they really want the sob story 567 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,920 Speaker 4: so they can feel good and think that they're saving you, 568 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,680 Speaker 4: which is again, yeah about you, right, And then once 569 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 4: again thing yeah, they thank god I'm not them type 570 00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:20,240 Speaker 4: type of conversation, and you're like that, I'm so grateful. 571 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:22,200 Speaker 4: I have so much to be thankful for. When you 572 00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: look at that's such a like connoissance. That does make 573 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 4: me want to punch somebody. 574 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:31,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that's just And we didn't go into it, 575 00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:33,600 Speaker 1: but again go read the book. But in the Ableism 576 00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,000 Speaker 1: chapter that quote that we included, she was talking about how, 577 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 1: you know, we don't talk about it, but that is 578 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: every day, every time I go outside, every time I 579 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: interact with somebody, like it's just there. And how exhausting 580 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,840 Speaker 1: that is. When she is living a very fulfilling life, right, 581 00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: but she has this thing right where people see her 582 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: and just have to call it out. 583 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 3: I don't believe her. 584 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my goodness. 585 00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,080 Speaker 1: So the final chapter is about ally ship and we've 586 00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: already talked about some of this, but she's really big 587 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: on you know, when in Dell ask politely whatever it is. 588 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: She even has a whole thing about like some people 589 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,760 Speaker 1: prefer if you're in a wheelchair, they prefer the person 590 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: to kind of kneel down to their level, and some 591 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,640 Speaker 1: people prefer that you don't. Right, So like when in 592 00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 1: doubt ask politely, it is the person in questions decision, 593 00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:37,480 Speaker 1: but it's all about respect. So many of these things. 594 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,720 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not dismissing any of this at all, 595 00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: but so many of the things with the stories of 596 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:43,400 Speaker 1: the bad actors. 597 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 2: I was like, do you not know how to treat 598 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: people right? People right? Don't do that right? 599 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,880 Speaker 4: And then then again like the asking part, there is 600 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,840 Speaker 4: that part of like, no, but I'm not sure, so 601 00:33:53,880 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 4: I don't know how to handle this. It shouldn't discourage 602 00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 4: you from getting to know people and getting to know 603 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,520 Speaker 4: anybody who might have a disability. So in that conversation 604 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 4: she's I think she talks about she doesn't love people 605 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,680 Speaker 4: crouching necessarily unless she knows them. She would rather use 606 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,160 Speaker 4: stand from a distance so that she can have the 607 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 4: conversation without creating her neck or any of that such. 608 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 4: She's talked about people with like being deaf and how 609 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 4: they communicate and making sure we understand not to take 610 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,880 Speaker 4: things or to like block things, just being really like 611 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,719 Speaker 4: conscientious on how we communicate with that. But again she 612 00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:29,239 Speaker 4: understands that this can be difficult for people who may 613 00:34:29,239 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 4: not have interacted with different people of different abilities again 614 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 4: or disability, so all of those things like it is, 615 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 4: it can be confusing in some of the ways we talked. 616 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,040 Speaker 4: She talks about people who are nonverbal having like the 617 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 4: writing pads and all of that. So it is interesting 618 00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:49,000 Speaker 4: in that she does take to account that different people 619 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,680 Speaker 4: can have for my own, you know, our own invisible disability, 620 00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 4: which is the anxiety that skyrockets that makes me shut down, 621 00:34:57,680 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 4: like what do we do? How do we do this 622 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 4: without having a full panic attack about it? Like having 623 00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 4: that understanding and grace and that this could be is 624 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,080 Speaker 4: it is. For some people it can be a little 625 00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:14,439 Speaker 4: bit hard to navigate, maybe because of their again, their 626 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:18,120 Speaker 4: own disabilities and having to work through that as well. 627 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, and it ends on a very she has 628 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: a whole section on disability etiquette, but it does end 629 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 1: on a you know, we're all learning. This is an 630 00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:34,240 Speaker 1: ongoing process, keep learning, which I think is a great message. 631 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,759 Speaker 1: So here is a final quote. This means that the 632 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,960 Speaker 1: first step to being an ally is unlearning this misconception 633 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:44,120 Speaker 1: and recognizing that disabled people aren't in need of saving. 634 00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:46,960 Speaker 1: We're in need of a world that recognizes our rights 635 00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: and our humanity without question. 636 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:50,919 Speaker 2: Yep. 637 00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, m hm. 638 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 1: It's it's a really good book, really really recommend it. 639 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: It's a it's a very and it's very infformative, but 640 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:04,320 Speaker 1: it's short, you get a lot, you learn a lot 641 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:09,000 Speaker 1: out of those pages, So yes, go check it out, listeners. 642 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: If you have any recommendations for other books that we 643 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: should do, you can email us at Hello at stuff 644 00:36:17,040 --> 00:36:18,920 Speaker 1: Wenever Told You dot com. You can find us on 645 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: Blue Sky at molst a podcast or on Instagram and 646 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: TikTok at stuff I Never Told You for us on YouTube, 647 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: and we have a book you can get wherever you 648 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:28,720 Speaker 1: get your books. Thanks, It's always too our Super sixteena 649 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:31,680 Speaker 1: our excepted produce and Maya and a contributor Joey. Thank 650 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: you and thanks to you for listening Stuff I Never 651 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 1: Told You to pot shoul my Heart Radio for more 652 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: podcast or my Heart Radio you can check out the 653 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,920 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, Apple podcasts, or ever you listen to your 654 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:47,600 Speaker 1: favorite shows