1 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to Strictly Business Varieties weekly podcast featuring conversations with 2 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 1: industry leaders about the business of media and entertainment. I'm 3 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 1: Cynthia Littleton, co editor in chief of Variety Today. My 4 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: guest is Scott Kundel, founder and CEO of Sacks Entertainment. 5 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: Undel made a career in Hollywood out of being one 6 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 1: of those executives who is indispensable to any big media company. 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: He became an expert in making it rain or selling 8 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: top tier content to the highest bidders around the world. 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: This job description can be opaque Head of Sales, Leader 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:50,280 Speaker 1: of distribution, but the mission is simple monetization. Fundel was 11 00:00:50,320 --> 00:00:54,080 Speaker 1: a key rainmaker at CBS and at Paramount Pictures before that. 12 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 1: Amid the post Leslie Moonbus shake up at CBS in 13 00:00:57,720 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, Undel headed the exit with a vision of 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: finally letting his inner entrepreneur run free. His company helped 15 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: bring Judge Judith Shinlan to a new bench, presiding over 16 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 1: the daily Judy Justice Court show for Amazon's freeb He's 17 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: done a lot of behind the scenes work advising friends 18 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: and clients on how to value media assets in this 19 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 1: changing environment. That work also gives him great insight into 20 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,839 Speaker 1: where the hockey puck is headed. That's all coming up 21 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: after the break, and we're back with a frank discussion 22 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: of where the money is in TV with Sox Entertainment 23 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: founder Scott Kundel. You've been out there in the trenches 24 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: as an entrepreneur with Sox Entertainment for the past couple 25 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 1: of years after a very long career at CBS and Paramount. 26 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: I guess I want to start by asking you, as 27 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: you are out there putting together shows and deals and 28 00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: packages and consulting as you do on a lot of 29 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: high level media strategy, where do you see where do 30 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: you see the most opportunity in the business for content creators, 31 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 1: content owners? Where do you see where do you where 32 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:19,920 Speaker 1: are you getting traction right now as you are out 33 00:02:19,960 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 1: selling different packages and things. Well, it's more it's about 34 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: producing efficiently. It's about giving volume. You know, a lot 35 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:33,680 Speaker 1: of the companies right now are have an advertising model 36 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:38,200 Speaker 1: as well as a subscription model, and it's probably a 37 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: necessity because I think people want to get as much 38 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: content as possible and they can only afford a certain amount, 39 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: so they'll make some sacrifices to watch things with ads 40 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: in it to get a lower price. And for the 41 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: bigger companies, I think they need to monetize their content 42 00:02:55,639 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 1: with advertising. And also, you know, it's been talked about, 43 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: You've written about it, everyone's kind of written about it. 44 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 1: It's the prices of really escalated and there is somewhat 45 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,200 Speaker 1: of an arms race in terms of content spending. So 46 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: you know, sure, I'd like to sell a show for 47 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,560 Speaker 1: you know, fourteen fifteen million dollars in an hour, but 48 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: I like the idea of producing shows that potentially will 49 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: people could bins on it. It's advertiser friendly, people want 50 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: to put it without ads on in the subscription model 51 00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: that also has a back end, viable back end that 52 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: I could distribute. And so from my company's business model, 53 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 1: and I could talk about how I approached the business. 54 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 1: I'm looking for as many paths to generate revenue for 55 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: my company. So it's not just like selling a show 56 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: and getting an EP fee and getting pages an executive producer. 57 00:03:57,640 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: It's about representing other pieces of the puzzle, whether it's 58 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,559 Speaker 1: the IP or a talent or a writer or showrunning 59 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 1: producer and having some sort of arrangement with them where 60 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: I could get a piece of what I'm you know, 61 00:04:14,000 --> 00:04:17,840 Speaker 1: in representing them in this project, producing it and then 62 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: having back end distribution rights to format rights and then 63 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: profit participation. So for me, a lot of what I 64 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: do is you know, you know, people say, oh, you're 65 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:31,919 Speaker 1: a producer now, and I kind of laugh humbly because 66 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: there are real producers out there. Who are you know, 67 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: in the control room and on the floor and getting 68 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: into the you know, nuts and bolts of making TV 69 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: of the curtains. Yes, And sometimes I joke around saying, yeah, 70 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: the biggessession I make is what to order for lunch. 71 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: So when people ask me you're a producer, what do 72 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: you produce? My answer usually is I produce money, which 73 00:04:57,279 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: is what? Which is no matter what, Even the last 74 00:05:00,240 --> 00:05:02,280 Speaker 1: couple of years there's been a few departures from that. 75 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,279 Speaker 1: No matter what, money is what makes the biz in 76 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: showbiz go around. The big thing that evolved and change 77 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: of the business was the vine of business and putting 78 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,360 Speaker 1: people to work. I think agents did a very good 79 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,480 Speaker 1: job of capitalizing on it. But you will those big 80 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: pay days of what Dick Wolfe gets or David E Kelly. Yes, 81 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: it didn't seem like it was going in a different 82 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: direction based on the leverage and all them spending that 83 00:05:30,080 --> 00:05:34,320 Speaker 1: was being done, not to mention the fact that there 84 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 1: was more data through the streamers, and if you look 85 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 1: at a lot of them, you know, shows on some 86 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: of the streamers, they typically weren't going more than three seasons, right, 87 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 1: And because they wanted to spend their money to provide 88 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: new shows that gay people who use and subscribe that 89 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: they could market, they've done. They've outsmarted the industry. This 90 00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: is what I will say. I would say the streaming companies, 91 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, put aside the ones that are in other 92 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: businesses that you know, this is like a side business. 93 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:15,320 Speaker 1: And I'm obviously talking about Apple and Amazon. They outsmarted 94 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 1: the business. But they had real numbers, they knew how 95 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: to use that data to their advantage. And traditional media 96 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: companies aren't judged the same way to Wall Street the 97 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: way the streaming companies were, you know, and so they're 98 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: playing by different set of rules and it made it 99 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: very very hard for them to compete. And streaming companies 100 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,720 Speaker 1: were also very smart of identifying who are the talented 101 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: people in old media and getting them. So do I 102 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,560 Speaker 1: think it'll switch? Will certainly it'll switch with big talent 103 00:06:53,720 --> 00:07:00,159 Speaker 1: that you know, the leverage will revert and you know 104 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:05,159 Speaker 1: they'll demand back end and in certain rights U and 105 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: then they might you know, a big talent might opt 106 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: to go with a second tier of streaming service because 107 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: they are getting that back end. That talent that goes 108 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 1: there creates a monster hit and the people the biggest 109 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 1: tier one companies are saying, we blew this. Look what 110 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:26,320 Speaker 1: this could have done for us. Now we put these 111 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 1: other guys on the map. So I think that is 112 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: a scenario that could very well happen. Does it Does 113 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: it seem to you like the sort of right, the 114 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: return of advertising into the into the conversation about streaming 115 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 1: is opening. It would seem like it would have to 116 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 1: be open doors for more entrepreneurial efforts and more different 117 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 1: forms of content licensing versus the cost plus that has 118 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 1: been the norm, if you can call it the norm 119 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 1: over the last certainly you know, five six years. Yeah, 120 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 1: I mean, what's happening is is that I think when 121 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: you first word it was very niche, and then now 122 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: it's becoming more you know, as they have so many subscribers, 123 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 1: it's broad like like broadcasting. And they've also have done 124 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:17,720 Speaker 1: things and gotten viewers. You know, I remember when Disney 125 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: was outselling Grey's Anatomy. They couldn't you know, They've sold 126 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: it basically to themselves at Lifetime and no one watched it. 127 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: It was a lot of money. And yet my daughter, 128 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: who's you know, you know, a teenager is watching Grey's 129 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 1: Anatomy on Netflix, was watching it before she went away 130 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: to college. And I'm saying they've been able to do 131 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 1: things in a way and get viewers to watch things 132 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: that traditional linear television was not able to do. And 133 00:08:44,320 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: I think it's about marketing and understanding the audience, and 134 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: it's where they've won because in that first deal they did, 135 00:08:53,679 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: they probably got a sweetheart deal on what they paid for. 136 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: So it's that type of insight that is they're just smarter. 137 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 1: You had a long career at Paramount and then CBS. 138 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: What made you decide that the time was right to 139 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 1: launch Socks Entertainment Will Truth be Told? I looked at 140 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,679 Speaker 1: where the business was going, and I was in the 141 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: most uncertainty. I wasn't uncertain where the business was going, 142 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: that streaming was going to be as big as it was. 143 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 1: I really I got CBS did streaming business with that 144 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:29,839 Speaker 1: first Netflix deal, then we did an Amazon deal. We 145 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: know Hulu. I knew that we had to be in 146 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,840 Speaker 1: that business. It was really not knowing where that my 147 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: company was going and whether or not I wanted to 148 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: participate in it. So we in eighteen were post emerged 149 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: with viacommas you know, then we ended up suing controlling shareholder. 150 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: Much drama ensued. There was a lot of drama, and 151 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 1: I had worked I was probably one of the only 152 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 1: people with one of the very few people who worked 153 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: on both sides. I was head a distribution and president 154 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 1: of Paramount Distribution. Then I went on the CBS side. 155 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:09,079 Speaker 1: I did this you know round a division and then 156 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: eventually elevated to corporate. But I knew the players on 157 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: both sides and from where I was unless I knew 158 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: for sure that was going to be controlling the whole 159 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: empire on both sides, meaning all the content and licensing 160 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: and distribution A I didn't want to get involved in 161 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: that dog fight because we know what happens emergers and 162 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,760 Speaker 1: I was being asked by at a very high level 163 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,199 Speaker 1: one of the major companies on a traditional media company 164 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 1: about how I'd go about licensing this stuff. And when 165 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: I heard that and heard there was an opportunity, and 166 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: then they went they went to try and hire me. 167 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,920 Speaker 1: I said, there's no way I would ever go back 168 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: for that type of job just doing that. But maybe 169 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: i'd launched my own company and you would be my 170 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:14,000 Speaker 1: first client and I would exclusively sell your sell your 171 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,240 Speaker 1: product exclusively for like a year and a half. And 172 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: that's where my head started going spending saying I really 173 00:11:22,040 --> 00:11:26,559 Speaker 1: probably should start my own company, and that the conversations 174 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: began with one very large company, and then I had 175 00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:36,960 Speaker 1: different ideas. The rsns were had to be spun off 176 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: from Disney during the with the merger with Fox, and 177 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 1: I was in play potentially by that was I'm a 178 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: huge sports fan. I saw a sports gambling That was 179 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: one thing that I thought was going to happen, and 180 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 1: obviously it's arrived and it's there and one of the 181 00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: biggest advertising clients right now for these companies or draft 182 00:11:56,480 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: Kings and all these sports betting companies. So I pivoted 183 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:02,880 Speaker 1: in my head again and this is about like how 184 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: am I going to make the most amount of money? 185 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:09,640 Speaker 1: And so I, you know, was very involved in that. 186 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: I was working with a bank and everything just happened 187 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:17,520 Speaker 1: very very quickly. I wasn't sure what avenue was going 188 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: to go in and could I buy it? Could I 189 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: actually buy a network if I can't buy the rsns? 190 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: But I was thinking very very big. And then the 191 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: pandemic hit, and it was the last year at CBS 192 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: was like kind of like, you know, a rough year. 193 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 1: We weren't we were paralyzed. We're paralyzed by the lawsuit, 194 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: were paralyzed by a potential merger. We were growing CBS 195 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: all Access. There was confusion on what should go on 196 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,320 Speaker 1: the service and what we should license. And I like 197 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 1: to work and I like to make money. And when 198 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,160 Speaker 1: you put me in a position where I'm being paralyzed 199 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: as not the state that I want to be in, 200 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,120 Speaker 1: I you know, you know, I was watching the movie 201 00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 1: other night. There was a line in the movie Munich, 202 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 1: you know what what what what do you fear? And 203 00:13:04,040 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 1: I think Eric Bennis is something like stillness was the 204 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 1: line in that movie. And I'm that's how kind of 205 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 1: how I am. I wanted to keep moving and and 206 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,560 Speaker 1: so I went out and I looked at like, what 207 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: are the big pieces that could help move my company? 208 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 1: And I just started to talked about I was involved 209 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: with the comic book book company Aftershock on representing their 210 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: rights to in their IP. Judy picked up the phone 211 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: and called me and said, what, I want to distribute 212 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: a show because she didn't want to be at CBS 213 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,520 Speaker 1: anymore because their negotiations, I guess fell apart um, which 214 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 1: I was reagistented to do because I worked at CBS 215 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:48,439 Speaker 1: and you know, I didn't want to be perceived as 216 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 1: taking their you know, talent from them. Don't leave us. 217 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 1: We'll be back with more tales from the trenches from 218 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: Socks Entertained founder Scott Kundell. And we're back with more 219 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: from Socks Entertainment founder Scott Kundel. Given that the regional 220 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: sports networks that were spun off from as part of 221 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: the Fox Disney deal, given that those appear to have 222 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: one foot in bankruptcy, do you feel like you dodged 223 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 1: a bullet there? I was trying to have as a 224 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: partner a different type of company, and knowing what this 225 00:14:33,360 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: company is now doing with a very big sports franchise, 226 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: that was the right I think I had it right. 227 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: I think that the model with Sinclair's doing right now 228 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: is very very difficult. Um and you know that just 229 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: the advertising part of it, but the rates they get into, 230 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, they have no leverage, and the m vvds, 231 00:14:56,360 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: the bundle's going away, right. It's basically an old school 232 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 1: We're going to use our stations and the sports club, 233 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,120 Speaker 1: cable operators or ahead. I had a different model. I 234 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: had a different partner. That partner ended up being a 235 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 1: little bit in that business and as a partner on 236 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: one RSN. And my model was different than the traditional model. 237 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,080 Speaker 1: I believe that it would have worked and would have thrived. 238 00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: And in that sense, I went to dage with the 239 00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:29,200 Speaker 1: bullet going out and raising you know, billions of dollars 240 00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: and owning them like Sinclair does. Yes, that would have 241 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: been a mistake. And I saw that when the opportunity 242 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:42,040 Speaker 1: dissipated with the one other buyer to be a partner 243 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: in it, I then pivoted to two or three different opportunities. 244 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 1: Can you talk about what you learned in dealing with 245 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: Netflix at that time fourteen twenty fifteen, What was it? 246 00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 1: What was it like dealing with Netflix and setting that deal? 247 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: What did you learn about the streaming economy at that time? Well, 248 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: money was gushing out of the faucets, in that company, right, 249 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: people thought, you know, early on, when I finally convinced management, 250 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: it's CBS, that we should be licensing streaming companies at 251 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:21,280 Speaker 1: the same time, when Jeff Bucas was calling Netflix the 252 00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,040 Speaker 1: Albanian Army, as if the Albanian Army was going to 253 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 1: come up and take over Europe break when I when 254 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 1: I saw that opportunity, and I saw that what they 255 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: were willing to spend into build a service. Um, I 256 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: was spending a lot of time there like that, you know, 257 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: and they also have really great free food and maple drive, 258 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 1: so I was going there everything, and so I spent 259 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: a lot of time there, and I knew that they 260 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 1: wanted to get as much content and make the service 261 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: valuable to a subscriber. And so from my standpoint is 262 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: what could I put on there and have, you know, 263 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: non exclusive rights because CBS was very protective about their rights. 264 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: And initially we did a very you know, lucrative output 265 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:13,359 Speaker 1: deal as well as a catalog deal the seeds that 266 00:17:13,480 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: was first. Then there was the CW content, which, believe 267 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: it or not for as young as we thought it 268 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: was for broadcast. When I saw an opportunity for it 269 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:28,159 Speaker 1: to be even younger on a streaming service. And you know, 270 00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:33,919 Speaker 1: I got called into my CEO's office and he's like, 271 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,960 Speaker 1: he said, the only you know. He sat me down, 272 00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: he said, the only division of this company that loses 273 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,639 Speaker 1: money is our fifty percent equity stake in the CW. 274 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: What would you do? And I said, let me think 275 00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: about it. I'll get back to you, and I left 276 00:17:50,080 --> 00:17:53,800 Speaker 1: his office and an hour later I came back to 277 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: his office and I said, um, I think we should 278 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: just stream the entire network in addition to linear, and 279 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,520 Speaker 1: I think we could probably get a lot of money 280 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: for it. And I started to It was a really 281 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: tough thing to do because of, you know, the other partner, 282 00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,639 Speaker 1: and it was Warner Brothers, which is owned by Time Warner, 283 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 1: which is the same company that owned HBO when HBO 284 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: was in this pr battle about you know, who's the 285 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: king of subscription television at the time, it was HBO 286 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: and then number two we showed Time. There was a 287 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 1: really tough um to convince the head of Warner Brothers 288 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: at the time that we should be doing this. But 289 00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:42,680 Speaker 1: we were a partner and the network was losing money. 290 00:18:42,800 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: And after working really hard with some really incredibly smart people, 291 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:49,719 Speaker 1: I mean that was really when I you know, you know, 292 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,360 Speaker 1: Ted surround us and Cindy Hunt like you know, at 293 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,919 Speaker 1: that point, you know, you know when Ted was you know, 294 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: the content officer, you know, nine years ago. I mean, 295 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:02,000 Speaker 1: he was in the trenches of all of these deals, 296 00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: and Cindy Holland is brilliant, and you know, I learned 297 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,439 Speaker 1: a lot about the way that they valued product and 298 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,639 Speaker 1: I got a little bit of inside to it, and 299 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,560 Speaker 1: we worked hard and we took it to marketplace and 300 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: we ended up, you know, doing a deal that was 301 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:21,080 Speaker 1: worth ended up being billions, and it saved the networking, 302 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: which is good for broadcast. It was good for the 303 00:19:23,119 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: parent companies, and ultimately it was really good for Netflix. 304 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 1: And I knew that it worked, and it was good 305 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,320 Speaker 1: because we divvied it up into two windows. We had 306 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: a Hulu window, which was like within one week, and 307 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: then the catalog Goal went in an output deal to 308 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: Netflix because had a steak and Hulu at that time 309 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: that they did so for them it was really lucrative. Actually, 310 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,000 Speaker 1: I don't know if they bought in at the time 311 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,720 Speaker 1: we did the first deal. I don't think Time Warner 312 00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 1: had a steak and it was only later on they 313 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: bought into it. But the real proof of the putting 314 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:03,400 Speaker 1: is when the deal came available, Netflix bought the entire 315 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:09,120 Speaker 1: both windows and it became a really hairy negotiation because Hulu, 316 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: you know, you know, they thought they were so small 317 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:16,479 Speaker 1: and thought they you know, could buy the first window 318 00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:18,960 Speaker 1: for less one and they paid for the Noah, the 319 00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: players for it. They were wrong, and you know, Netflix 320 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 1: eventually bought it out and I think they did pretty 321 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: well with it, and obviously the partners did well with it, 322 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,040 Speaker 1: and that, as I recall, I mean that especially for 323 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: that time, that was a very unique deal. Netflix didn't 324 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,880 Speaker 1: have any kind of like broader all you can eat 325 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: deal from not Only Sorry at the time. That was 326 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: a pretty unique deal for Netflix. I can't remember them 327 00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: having a kind of a broad output deal that was 328 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: non exclusive. I mean, all those things were just seemed 329 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: like an afthema to them. But you got it done. 330 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: I got it done. And to their credit, they had 331 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: the confidence from the data and just intuition and they 332 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: and again it's like yes, these you know Netflix back then, 333 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:05,879 Speaker 1: there was a lot of really really there was a 334 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,160 Speaker 1: lot of intuition that was used other than just raw numbers. 335 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:13,199 Speaker 1: And I really credit you know, Ted and Cindy early 336 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: on for seeing the value in it and stepping up 337 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:21,200 Speaker 1: for it. It was definitely, it was definitely a big, big, 338 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,520 Speaker 1: certainly a big commitment for them, but showed. And it 339 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: is so interesting that for all the basilions spent on 340 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: original content, when you look at the numbers every week, 341 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: what drives FBI and Law and Order and you know, 342 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: it's It's the it's the tried and true workhorses of 343 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:43,840 Speaker 1: broadcast TV. Gray's anatomy, which is why part of my 344 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: model right now is doing shows that are cost efficient. Listen, 345 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,600 Speaker 1: They're still going to buy big ticket products, you know. 346 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: I saw, you know some of the deals that were 347 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: you know announced, the Apple bought something for a lot 348 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: of money, and you know, there's no stopping that. They're 349 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,680 Speaker 1: big drivers for a new subscribers to the the highly marketable 350 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: and it's great television. So there has to be some 351 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 1: balance there, and I think for the most part that's 352 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 1: where I come in, although I have I'm doing a 353 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: series called Big Man about the story of World Chamberlain 354 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: and Bill Russell, and it came to me through Ideal 355 00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: Entertainment and a couple of other two really really talented 356 00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: writers and they're like, you know, the most knowledgeable about 357 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: the relationship between these two athletes. And that's going to 358 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 1: be like a winning time. You know, it's going to 359 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 1: be a big time scripted series and we're gonna have 360 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: a really big name attached to it that's going to 361 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,639 Speaker 1: be anown shortly and as a star or show runner, 362 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 1: as someone attached to it who is a big athlete, 363 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: who is a brandame athlete in the NBA, you know, 364 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:06,040 Speaker 1: played in the NBA, and then um, shortly afterwards, we're 365 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,879 Speaker 1: going to have a really big name showrunner and this 366 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: will be something that hopefully I'll read about and others 367 00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: we'll read about. You know, what we got for it, 368 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: and hopefully it's something that will be a woodworthy because 369 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,119 Speaker 1: I think it will because it's not just the story 370 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 1: of these two phenomenal athletes, you know, Bill Russells who 371 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 1: number was just retired as well Chamber in this legendary Laker, 372 00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:31,080 Speaker 1: but also it's really about the backdrop of the civil 373 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: rights movement and and if you look at all, you know, 374 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:38,440 Speaker 1: some of these stories are just so meaningful to being 375 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,639 Speaker 1: told in a different way. You know, Hulu just started 376 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: sixteen nineteen and there's just some great stories and this 377 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,639 Speaker 1: is a great way. If you saw the movie forty two, 378 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 1: it was a great way to tell the story about 379 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: equality in baseball. This is going to tell it in 380 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: basketball with two legends, and I couldn't be more excited 381 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:02,439 Speaker 1: about it. I'm beyond excited about the success of Judy 382 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 1: Justice because it really demonstrates that this business model works. 383 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: The audience shows up, they're showing up on a different platform, 384 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:17,840 Speaker 1: the streaming service, and Amazon freev values it. They see 385 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: the value in it there. The renewal is the best 386 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: validation of it all and really just showing that this 387 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 1: huge talent, the biggest talent in all of television, could 388 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: dominate on another platform. Let me ask you, do you 389 00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: see the same kind of viewing. Is it appointment viewing? 390 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: Do people come once a day? Is it a check 391 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,119 Speaker 1: in kind of thing? Because Judy Justice airs on freebe 392 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: and it was definitely one of the cornerstones when that 393 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 1: when Freebe launched. I will tell you that people are 394 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: watching it at all hours of the day and if 395 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: they watch one episode, they watch most. It's just as excellent. 396 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: You know, I want to say, you know, Amazon's very 397 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 1: proprietary about their data. But I mean, and the biggest 398 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:11,440 Speaker 1: validation is the renewals. But people are watching it all 399 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: different times, at times a day, and I think they 400 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:17,399 Speaker 1: enjoy being able to have it on demand. Is there 401 00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: are you thinking down the road in a couple of 402 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 1: years you will package the package those episodes and find 403 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 1: another window for them. Is that is that the plan? 404 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,720 Speaker 1: The plan is absolutely to do that conversations the beginning. 405 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: The question is the time, the right timing of it 406 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:38,119 Speaker 1: to really maximize the opportunity. But the business model for 407 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: judicial syndication has got to change, and you know it's 408 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:47,520 Speaker 1: that business has just beaten down and it's really got 409 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: to change. I've been a little bit poking around the 410 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:58,719 Speaker 1: marketplace and it's in desperate need of innovation. And I 411 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:00,959 Speaker 1: think I could certainly do it on the content side. 412 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:03,919 Speaker 1: And I think it's just going to require some of 413 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,959 Speaker 1: the people in the leadership positions on the broadcast side 414 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: to be open to innovation, be opening to windows, because 415 00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: you know, you just can't run. You know, you see 416 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,520 Speaker 1: these stations running news afternoons, afternoons, that's not the answer. 417 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: The news is being constantly repeated through the day and 418 00:26:23,119 --> 00:26:26,480 Speaker 1: it's not. The news isn't exactly an exclusive product that's 419 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: on every single station in the marketplace, and so they 420 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 1: have to be able to find a way to bring 421 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: audiences back to broadcast to help their news do ratings, 422 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:40,199 Speaker 1: to help their seven to eight to do ratings, to 423 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,720 Speaker 1: help their prime time. And so there are all these 424 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: time periods available, shows being canceled left and right, and 425 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,760 Speaker 1: you're seeing third and fourth runs of the same show 426 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: in a schedule. It seems it seems like they you know, 427 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: times I look at it and just feel like they're 428 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: giving up. I mean it's really you know, someone say 429 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,040 Speaker 1: to me, oh, we just want you know, daytime for free. 430 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: And I understand that what there's people have budgets and 431 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: they have financing issues. But at the end of the day, 432 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: I think the conversation begins with how can I get 433 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: the biggest audience in a time period? Right now, reruns 434 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: of Judge Judy, which is syndicated by CBS, is like 435 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,400 Speaker 1: the highest rated number and syndication there's like six moon 436 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:30,760 Speaker 1: views viewers a day in reruns. Does that challenge? I mean, 437 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:32,520 Speaker 1: that's got to be a challenge for what you're doing 438 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,720 Speaker 1: with Judy Justice, because in some sense she competes with herself. 439 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 1: I view it actually is helpful. I think that the 440 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:46,959 Speaker 1: viewers love Judy, they welcome more of her. Our money 441 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: is more than you know, we The prize money that 442 00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: we give away to the winning plaintiff is significantly higher 443 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,800 Speaker 1: than what is on that show and the episodes that 444 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:02,320 Speaker 1: haven't seen before and broadcast. So it's fresh content and 445 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:04,080 Speaker 1: the proof is in the pudding. We know that they 446 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: love love her. So I think it's just further validation 447 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:12,840 Speaker 1: that any product that Judy puts her name on. By 448 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: the way, I think for anything that she endorses or 449 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 1: produces or creates will have high value and broadcast indication. 450 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,120 Speaker 1: There is a fascinating and incredibly well reported new book 451 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: out called Unscripted, The Epic Battle for a Media Empire, 452 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: that really recounts all of the drama among Sherry Redstone, 453 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:39,120 Speaker 1: Leslie Moonvess, Philippe domand many other characters. Have you read 454 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 1: the book? Do you have any thoughts? Actually, even more 455 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:44,280 Speaker 1: so than have you read the book, do you have 456 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: any thoughts? I won't ask you to go into the 457 00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: individual great details and some of them are pretty unpleasant, 458 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,200 Speaker 1: but do you have any thoughts about, like what all 459 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: of that cost CBS a great, you know, a great organization. 460 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 1: What all of that cost Viacom, which was an organization 461 00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,280 Speaker 1: that was already having some troubles. But any thoughts about 462 00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 1: sort of the opportunity cost of all of that personal 463 00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 1: craziness and and in fairness bad behavior, um, I'll take 464 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,600 Speaker 1: I mean my thoughts are is that there was really 465 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,720 Speaker 1: a way to make it work better than how I 466 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: see that company today. And you know, it's not just 467 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:36,160 Speaker 1: about assets, it's about people. You know, You're it's like baseball. 468 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 1: You gotta put the you know, if you gotta a 469 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: guy playing second base, he's batting two sixty with twelve 470 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:44,760 Speaker 1: home runs, and you've placed with a guy batting three 471 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,360 Speaker 1: hundred and with Derek Jeter, Um, then you got to 472 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: put the right plays in the right position to having 473 00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: a having to having a winning team. And so what 474 00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: the initial intentions were from the are in terms of 475 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: what the team was going to look like. I think 476 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:08,959 Speaker 1: it was, you know, putting aside what the correct valuation was, 477 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: what the correct number was to the Viacom shareholder and 478 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,680 Speaker 1: the CBS shareholder, putting aside those numbers and all that 479 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:20,680 Speaker 1: the fair numbers were for you know, for the merger, 480 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:25,480 Speaker 1: I think that there was really a great opportunity there 481 00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:28,560 Speaker 1: to build a great media company and putting these company 482 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: back together. You have to also remember I was there 483 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 1: when the company was one. I was there, you know, 484 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: you know, I'm twenty seven years in between both companies. 485 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: So I think that opportunity was a thousand to two 486 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: thousand and six. They about five years, It was really 487 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: actually not that long. But then they busted up in 488 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,160 Speaker 1: January of two thousand and six, and so, you know, 489 00:30:50,360 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: the team and we were you know, I think, you know, 490 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: I was part of the diligence team. There was definitely 491 00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: a goal to find a way to make it work 492 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: and make it work correctly, and there were strategies. In 493 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: my head, I was I was up all night thinking 494 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:07,080 Speaker 1: about ways to help save the cable networks and how 495 00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: to drive more revenue there and how do we build 496 00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: CBS all Access up with potentially some of the Nickelodeon content. 497 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,960 Speaker 1: I mean, there was definitely a plan and a strategy, 498 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: and I think the key stakeholders who I worked with, 499 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: we were up day and night thinking like, this is 500 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:27,400 Speaker 1: going to happen eventually, and how are we going to 501 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: like really build one great company for Showery Redstone. And 502 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: you know, sadly because of you know, the event of 503 00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: the events that happened at the lawsuit first and then 504 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,600 Speaker 1: the fall out of less, none of that came to 505 00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:48,080 Speaker 1: be which kind of you know, and it was exhausting. 506 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 1: It was an exhausting time because we were paralyzed, as 507 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: as I said earlier, during this period of time or transition. 508 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,440 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Be sure to leave us a review 509 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,880 Speaker 1: at Apple Podcasts. We love to hear from listeners. Please 510 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,240 Speaker 1: go to Variety dot com and sign up for our 511 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,800 Speaker 1: free weekly Strictly Business newsletter, and don't forget to tune 512 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: in next week for another episode of Strictly Business