1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 2: Last September, Sarah Swata, a thirty nine year old doctor 3 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 2: from India, was scrolling on his phone when a Facebook 4 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 2: ad caught his attention. 5 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: He saw an ad that was from Geojith Financial Services, 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: or at least it claimed to be from Jeojith, which 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: is a prominent brokerage in India. It's well reputed and 8 00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: they were offering him some special books and the returns 9 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: were really high. 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 2: Alex Gabriel Simon is a Bloomberg Stocks reporter based in Mumbai. 11 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 2: He spoke to Sarah Swatam who asked that we just 12 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: use his first name because his case is under police investigation. 13 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 2: On that September day, Sarah Swata clicked on the ad 14 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 2: and was invited to join an exclusive WhatsApp group. 15 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: So, once he joined the WhatsApp group, there were seemingly 16 00:00:56,480 --> 00:00:59,680 Speaker 1: employees of Giojeth giving him all sorts of advice and 17 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: then he was asked generally what any regular brokerage would 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: ask you, and they had a proper application process and 19 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: he signed up with the app and the apps had 20 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:14,520 Speaker 1: the name of Jyojith. It had SEBI registration number. SEBBI 21 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: is the capital market regulator in India. There was no 22 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: sense of this being fake anywhere at all. 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,040 Speaker 2: The so called advisors told Saraswata he could make easy 24 00:01:25,080 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 2: money just by pressing a few buttons on their trading 25 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: app every day, that they had a surefire buy and 26 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: flip strategy. So Sarah Swata started sending small amounts of money, 27 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,080 Speaker 2: and soon the money he put in started multiplying on 28 00:01:39,160 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 2: the app. Three hundred and seventy thousand US dollars became 29 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 2: half a million, then a million, then two million dollars, 30 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: all in the span of a few months. 31 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: He felt like he hit a gold mine, is exactly 32 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: what he told me, and the money was growing to 33 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 1: an extent where you wouldn't expect in a regular stock 34 00:01:58,720 --> 00:01:59,680 Speaker 1: market scenario. 35 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 2: By December, he thought it was about time to cash 36 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: in on his earnings, but when he asked to withdraw 37 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 2: part of the money, things took a different turn. 38 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: They told him that since you have gained of more 39 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: than one hundred percent on your investments, that he'll need 40 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 1: an extra commission to withdraw that money. So he was 41 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 1: asked to invest much more. He ended up pawning off 42 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: his wife's gold jewelry to cover this amount, and by 43 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: then he had already invested much of what he had 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: had multiple personal loans as well as gold loans. 45 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 2: The firm kept coming back with excuses to ask for 46 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:44,880 Speaker 2: even more money. That's when Sarah Swata realized something wasn't right. 47 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:48,520 Speaker 1: So he took an actual flight to the real brokerage, 48 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: that is Joji, to their headquarters. He went there and 49 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 1: talked to the employees about his investments and they immediately 50 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 1: found out that he was being scammed. They looked at 51 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 1: the records and there was no account under his name. 52 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: It was all a scam. The app was fake and 53 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: the total amount he invested seven hundred thousand dollars, his 54 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 2: entire life savings and more, it was all gone. And 55 00:03:15,919 --> 00:03:19,120 Speaker 2: there are many retail investors likes Ariswata who hope to 56 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: make a fortune after watching India's booming stock market produce 57 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,800 Speaker 2: some genuine millionaires, but instead they're tricked out of millions 58 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 2: in life savings by scammers. Last year, some one hundred 59 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: and fifty thousand people reported being victims of stock frauds, 60 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: and all time high in India. This is a concern 61 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,080 Speaker 2: not only for retail investors in India, but for the 62 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 2: Indian economy. 63 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: More broadly, so when foreign investors see the retail friends, 64 00:03:45,040 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 1: he has reached levels that people are willing to now 65 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: put money into these scams. They are thinking this frenzy 66 00:03:51,760 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: has gone too far. Maybe this is not a market 67 00:03:54,480 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 1: that we should be in, and they've been selling in billions. 68 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: Welcome to The Big Take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm Wanha. 69 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,640 Speaker 2: Every week we take you inside some of the world's 70 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: biggest and most powerful economies and the markets, tycoons and 71 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 2: businesses that drive this ever shifting region. Today on the show, 72 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 2: the Dark Side of India's retail investing frenzy. What's driving 73 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: the surge and financial cyber scamps, and what does it 74 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: mean for the future of India's boomings stock market. Up 75 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,679 Speaker 2: until last September, India stock market was on a tear. 76 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 2: The benchmark nifty to fifty index posted gains for nine 77 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:48,600 Speaker 2: years in a row. Its growth overtook major markets across 78 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 2: the world. It even outperformed the S and P five 79 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 2: hundred for most of last year, and. 80 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: The rally has really picked up pace in the last 81 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,760 Speaker 1: five years. After COVID there was the monetary policy stimulus. 82 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:03,240 Speaker 1: Growth was really going about trend and all of this 83 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 1: had led to a lot of gains in the market, 84 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: especially in small and midcaps, where retailers were really pouring 85 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: their money into. 86 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,960 Speaker 2: Shares of companies that went public last year surged by 87 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: an average of more than thirty percent in the first 88 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: month after their IPO. That's more than almost twenty four 89 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 2: percent globally, and the country's unprecedented market rally drove tens 90 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 2: of millions of Indians to stocks to grow their wealth. 91 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 1: If you go into social media, there are so many 92 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: stories of people who became millionaires from investing in the market. 93 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: Retail investors have started to believe that this is easy 94 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: and that the Indian market would keep rising every year 95 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: like it did in the last nine years. 96 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 2: Today there are more than one hundred and thirty million 97 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,840 Speaker 2: unique trading accounts, that's almost triple the number five years ago. 98 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 2: Retail Investors directly and through mutual funds currently own about 99 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:02,480 Speaker 2: eighteen percent of the inn market, a record high, and 100 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 2: Alex says there were several factors that all came together 101 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 2: to drive this retail boom. 102 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: There was a flood of cheap Chinese phones that have 103 00:06:11,200 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: come into the market, and along with that, billionaire Mocation 104 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: Bani launched Giovich's his telecom company, and that launch was 105 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 1: with free voice calls as well as dirt sheep data, 106 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: and that really gave access to Internet to a lot 107 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: of people in India, going deep into the hinterlands. 108 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: On top of this, discount, brokerages popped up to offer 109 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 2: zero fees, similar to robin Hood or Interactive brokers in 110 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 2: the US. That made it easy and affordable for a 111 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 2: lot of Indians to just open an account and start trading. 112 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 2: And it's not just Indians who've been jumping into the 113 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 2: capital markets. As one of the fastest growing economies in 114 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: the world, India has drawn the attention of top business leaders, 115 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: from Apple's Tim Cook and Tesla's Elon Musk to veteran 116 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: emerging markets money manager Mark Mobius. Last year, Mobias suggested 117 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: global funds should allocate at least fifty percent to Indian stocks. 118 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: The pick for me is India. 119 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: India is the place. Even though India's come back a 120 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 2: lot and it has even at some point outperformed the 121 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: US market, India's still got a long way to go. 122 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 2: It's a message India's Prime Minister Noarendra Modi has been 123 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: peggybacking on Mobius does a park explore. Mody touted the 124 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: fund manager's call in a speech last October and suggested 125 00:07:35,520 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: that other global funds should invest heavily in Indian stocks 126 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 2: to capitalize on the country's market strength. But despite this 127 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 2: excitement and optimism for India's stock market, a darker side 128 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 2: to the retail investor frenzy has emerged. All this investment 129 00:07:51,720 --> 00:07:55,120 Speaker 2: activity by ordinary Indians has caught the eye of cyber 130 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 2: criminals and fronsters over the past several years. Now India 131 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: is being targeted by modern trading scammers at alarmingly high rates. 132 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: Cybersecurity firm Cloudseek came out with a report that said 133 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: India is one among the top five countries which are 134 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: being targeted by cyber criminals in very sophisticated scams. A 135 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: lot of countries went through a gradual change where they 136 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: started with computers and then moved to laptops and mobile phones, 137 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: but in India it's all quick and people are not 138 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: really digitally literate, and all of that has made India 139 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 1: very vulnerable when it comes to cybercrime. 140 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 2: Government data shows that last year there were more than 141 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:42,920 Speaker 2: four hundred stock market linked scams reported every day, amounting 142 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 2: to more than one billion dollars lost. So far, less 143 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 2: than ten percent of that money has been recovered. Ali 144 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 2: says that's likely only the tip of the iceberg. 145 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: So the people getting scammed are unlike what you would suspect. 146 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: It's not just maybe the old people or uneducated people 147 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: when I'm talking to brokerages whose apps have been coned 148 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:07,560 Speaker 1: or other victims. It's coming from all walks of life. 149 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 1: There are people who are educated, people who are uneducated, 150 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: coming from Tier one cities, tier two cities, as well 151 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 1: as deep into the villages in India where earlier there 152 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,880 Speaker 1: was barely access to internet. But now they're being scammed 153 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:23,439 Speaker 1: and lured into stock market link scams. 154 00:09:23,559 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 2: And recently the market's taken a turn, raising concerns that 155 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,320 Speaker 2: these stock linked scams may have played a part in 156 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:34,199 Speaker 2: denting consumer confidence. Well, stocks in India have wrapped out 157 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 2: there over a trillion dollars from their market bellue and 158 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:43,559 Speaker 2: global fund managers are also not in any rush after 159 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 2: the break the Risks investment scams posed to India stock market. 160 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,960 Speaker 2: And what does the recent shares plument mean for Mody's 161 00:09:50,960 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: ambition to sell India stocks to foreign investors. After an 162 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 2: unprecedented nine year rally, India's benchmark stock index has experienced 163 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: a recent downturn. It saw up to a sixteen percent 164 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 2: decline from September last year to early March. Some popular 165 00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:24,160 Speaker 2: stocks have fallen as much as fifty percent from their peak. 166 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 2: Bloomberg reporter Alex Gabriel Simon says that was partly driven 167 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 2: by worries about slowing economic growth and as terarif risks 168 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 2: royal global markets, but he also says the surge in 169 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: financial cyber scams have played a role in the recent decline. 170 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: What these scams do is make people who have been 171 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: scammed wary of investing in general, even when they are 172 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,120 Speaker 1: now putting money into legitimate trading apps, and that sentiment, 173 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: if it prolongs, might lead to a break in the 174 00:10:56,679 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: broadening investor base we have seen in India. 175 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: Right of these scams has put pressure on Runder Modi's 176 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 2: government to do more to protect investors. 177 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: You could clearly see that they're trying to do something 178 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: to stop this, and you can see that they've been 179 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: increasing outreach to fix this issue in certain parts of 180 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,320 Speaker 1: the country. When you call someone, the caller tune on 181 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,320 Speaker 1: the other side is a warning that there has been 182 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: cyber scams going on. Do not share OTPs with anyone, 183 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:29,199 Speaker 1: do not make these instant payments to people who are 184 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: not registered entities. 185 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 2: And at the same time, the Indian government has been 186 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 2: trying to tackle another growing issue, the rise of financial 187 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,440 Speaker 2: influencers on social media, or so called influencers. And while 188 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: influencers aren't necessarily fraudulent, they often lack professional training and 189 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 2: some don't disclose sponsorships or financial ties, and that's a 190 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: concern India's regulators are trying to address. 191 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,240 Speaker 1: So SABEE has come out with numerous rules to contain 192 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 1: the rise of influen conswers in India. They have made 193 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 1: it illegal for them to have affiliate links to entities 194 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: managed by the regulator. They've also banned people from selling 195 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: stock tips in particular, and SABIE has also, according to 196 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 1: our reporting, stepped up their surveillance of social media platforms. 197 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,080 Speaker 2: Alex says the government's measures to date have had some impact. 198 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: The number of fraud complaints are slowing, but there's far 199 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:30,000 Speaker 2: more to be done. 200 00:12:30,200 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 1: So consumer confidence is everything for an economy, and people 201 00:12:34,559 --> 00:12:37,800 Speaker 1: losing money is never good, even when you're looking at 202 00:12:37,880 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: demand for products or just confidence to invest. India is 203 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:45,199 Speaker 1: at a stage where it's trying to widen or broaden 204 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,120 Speaker 1: its investor base and that has now started to increase 205 00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: and it is coming at a time. These camps are 206 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,959 Speaker 1: coming at a time when India is going through that 207 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: journey of transformation, of financialization of savings, and this can 208 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: be a road break to that if not contained on time, 209 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: If people are now worried to invest in the market, 210 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 1: then the strength of the domestic investors could come into question, 211 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: and that is a big risk for the Indian equity market. 212 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,439 Speaker 2: And alex What about foreign investors? Would they come back? 213 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: Foreign investors are always affected by the news flows coming 214 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: from a country. The sentiment is a factor beyond valuations 215 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: or earnings. So when foreign investors see the retail frends, 216 00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: he has reached levels that people are willing to now 217 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: put money into these scams. They are thinking this frenzy 218 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: has gone too far. Maybe this is not a market 219 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: that we should be in, and they've been selling in billions. 220 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:44,240 Speaker 1: Modi's large plan is to build India into Vixit Barret 221 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: which means developed India, and that is his vision for 222 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: twenty forty seven when India attains one hundred years of independence. 223 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: But that requires more digital literacy, that requires people to 224 00:13:56,920 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: build wealth, that requires people to move into more sophisticated 225 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 1: investment plants, and these scams proliferating does not sit well 226 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: with these plans. 227 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,720 Speaker 2: As for Sarah Swantam, Alex says after reporting the case 228 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,559 Speaker 2: to the police, he still has no idea who was 229 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 2: behind the scam, and he's still trying to figure out 230 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:20,560 Speaker 2: if he can get his money back. 231 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,600 Speaker 1: He's really traumatized about this whole incident and was even 232 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,360 Speaker 1: finding it hard to talk about it. He told me, 233 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: this is an incident the memory of which he's trying 234 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: to wipe off from his brain. 235 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 2: This is the Big take Asia from Bloomberg News. I'm wanh. 236 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Naomi and Young Young. It 237 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 2: was edited by Grace Jennings ed Quist and Catherine nine. 238 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 2: It was fact checked by Young and Naomi and mixed 239 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 2: and sound designed by Taka Yasuzawa. Our senior producer is 240 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 2: Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. Our deputy 241 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 2: executive producer is Julia Weaver. Our executive producer is Nicole Beemster. 242 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,800 Speaker 2: Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If you liked 243 00:15:03,840 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: this episode, please make sure to subscribe and review The 244 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: Big Take Asia Wherever you listen to podcasts. It really 245 00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 2: helps people find the show. Thanks for listening, See you 246 00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:13,000 Speaker 2: next time.