1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from how Stuff Works 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, 3 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: and there's Charles W Chuck Bryant, and there's Jerry over there. 4 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: So this is stuff you should know about the Tuskegee Airman. 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,479 Speaker 1: That's right, one of our Every year we try to 6 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: do a Black History Month podcast at least one. And 7 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: uh did mean to keep everyone on suspense this year 8 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 1: right here at the end of the month, but this 9 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 1: one we were getting this one put together. Yeah, this 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:41,840 Speaker 1: is a good one. Yeah, and it's uh, I mean, 11 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: this is what we typically like to do, stuff that's 12 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:47,240 Speaker 1: like your very little known history. I would say Tuskegee 13 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: Airman is is does not fall into the little known category, 14 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: yet still undersung. I think even after two not very 15 00:00:55,000 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: good feature films. Oh did you see any of them? 16 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: I had? The only one I'm familiar with was um, 17 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,680 Speaker 1: I think it's just called the Tuskegee Airman, and I 18 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 1: kept confusing it with Memphis Bell. Yeah, Tuskegee Airman was 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: an HBO movie with Larry Fishburne and other Malcolm Jamal Warner. 20 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 1: I think, yeah, good seeing him, sure always, but uh, 21 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: I mean that one was okay, but I think better 22 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:23,960 Speaker 1: than the Red Tails movie was. Uh yeah, Red Tails 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: just wasn't very good, which is a shame. Sure. But 24 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: speaking of shame, let's talk about how the Tuskegee Airmen retreated. 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: Just to get started, Um, we should kind of briefly 26 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 1: go over like the history of African Americans in the military, 27 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: because where we really pick up with our story the 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: Inner War period between World War One and World War Two. Um, 29 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 1: the military was very much segregated still officially, just like 30 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: America was. It was law. Segregation was law at the time. 31 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: But that's not to say that, um, African Americans hadn't 32 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 1: served in the military and US previously, uh, in some 33 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:06,960 Speaker 1: pretty substantial roles too. Yeah, I mean dating back to 34 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: like when they were not even considered Americans, Like when 35 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,680 Speaker 1: when uh, I mean, I keep wanting to say black Americans, 36 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,240 Speaker 1: but they were not considered that, like during the Revolutionary War, um, 37 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 1: on both sides. Actually, as you'll learn in a short 38 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: stuff about black loyalists, it's interesting that slaves fought for 39 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 1: and against the revolution, really interesting all the way up through. 40 00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: And you know, we should do podcasts on a lot 41 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: of these things, but they fought in the War of 42 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: eighteen twelve. They fought as the Buffalo Soldiers in many 43 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: of the conflicts against Native Americans all the way up 44 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:49,359 Speaker 1: through World War One, where they joined the army, despite 45 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: the fact that there was segregation at home and in 46 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,360 Speaker 1: the military um, notably the Harlem hell Fighters who fought 47 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,480 Speaker 1: with the French, and even though Americans did not fully 48 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: recognize that as an accomplishment, the French government did. Ironically, Yeah, 49 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:06,640 Speaker 1: if that sounds kind of weird to you, the the 50 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: American military had an all black regiment and said here, 51 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 1: you take them to to France, and France was like, sure, 52 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: we'll take them, We'll use them and awarded them the 53 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 1: Quada Gair for Heroism in combat um, which is like, 54 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,080 Speaker 1: if you'll remember our Native American code talker episode. France, 55 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,800 Speaker 1: especially World War One, had kind of a history of 56 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 1: awarding and recognizing bravery among minorities that were just totally 57 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: shown to the United States, you know, yeah, And I 58 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: mean there was even a study conducted by the Army 59 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: War College in nineteen five about the fitness and suitability 60 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: of black soldiers in the military, and it was just 61 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: it was brutal and racist, and you know, just said 62 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 1: the worst things you can imagine about the lack of 63 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: fitness for a black man to serve for the Americans 64 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: in the American military. Yeah, and I think this Army 65 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: War College study was basically just a an official position 66 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: paper that that summed up the sentiments among military officers 67 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: and most of the military at the time. Um that 68 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: they just wanted to get it down on paper. It's 69 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: like an official position so that that it wouldn't be eroded, 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 1: that they could say this is the military's official position 71 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:25,719 Speaker 1: on black people. And essentially what it said was black 72 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: people are not intellectually capable of receiving like theoretical training. 73 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: They they can probably be you know, um worked into 74 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,279 Speaker 1: uh like combat troops, but it's going to take a 75 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: lot more effort and you really have to dumb it 76 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: down and then maybe you can organize them into a 77 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 1: combat troop. But really, we don't have high hopes for this, 78 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: so we should probably just not mess with the whole 79 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: thing and just keep it in all white military. Yeah. 80 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,760 Speaker 1: That that was And despite all of this, there were 81 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 1: still black soldiers who a achieved in the military, uh, 82 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 1: most notably in the reason we bring this Uh, this 83 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: gentleman up. Benjamin O'Davis sr Uh became the first black 84 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 1: general in the U. S. Military. He figures prominently in 85 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: the Tuskegee Airmen story, and that his son, Benjamin Davis Jr. Uh, Well, 86 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: we'll we'll tell you what he did, but he figured 87 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: very prominently in the formation and story of the Tuskegee Airmen. Yeah, 88 00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 1: he's huge, he's um one of the leading figures, and 89 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,080 Speaker 1: he gets most of the glory and the press and everything, 90 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: but there were plenty of others who who served quite valiantly. Yeah, 91 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 1: so that that's like the briefest of summations. I definitely 92 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 1: think we should do one on the Buffalo Soldiers at 93 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: some point. Tots agree like, I don't understand why Bob 94 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: Marley drew that that um line between Prasta's and Buffalo soldiers. 95 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:55,279 Speaker 1: I'm not kidding, Like I know that it sounds like 96 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 1: a hilarious thing that Josh would say, but I have 97 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: always always wondered that, like what is he talking about? 98 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,480 Speaker 1: What's the you know, were they were they rostas or 99 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 1: something like that, or is it do they have the 100 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: spirit of the roster vice versa. I'd love to get 101 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: to the bottom of that. Alright, let's do it. Okay, alright, 102 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm excited. So that brings us to World War two. UM. 103 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:22,520 Speaker 1: And like you said before, segregation is still, uh the 104 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: law in the United States. Race racism was rampant, and 105 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:30,640 Speaker 1: it still is in a lot of places in this country, 106 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 1: but back then very much rampant. Uh. And despite all that, 107 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: there were still plenty of African Americans who wanted to 108 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: be in the army and wanted to fly planes. And 109 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:43,600 Speaker 1: this was pre Air Force. It was called the uh, 110 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: the Army Air Corps. Yes, and we should say like 111 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:51,200 Speaker 1: this was extremely prestigious to be in the Army. Air 112 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:54,120 Speaker 1: Corps was far and away the most prestigious branch of 113 00:06:54,160 --> 00:06:57,080 Speaker 1: the military, although it wasn't technically its own branch, but 114 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,040 Speaker 1: the UM. The it was the most prestigious part of 115 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: the military. UM because it was widely considered and rightfully 116 00:07:05,320 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 1: so you had to be really really sharp, really smart, 117 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:12,200 Speaker 1: really quick on your toes, and just really large and 118 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,960 Speaker 1: in charge. Basically to fly planes in the military. It 119 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:18,440 Speaker 1: was still pretty new. It was a fairly new thing, 120 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 1: and the whole the whole world, but also the US 121 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: really looked up to aviators at the time because this 122 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: is at a time where if you flew across country, 123 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: you just you just made history kind of thing. So 124 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: to to UM to be a part of the Army 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: Air Corps, that was a that's a sweet plum right there. Yeah, 126 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: And so you know, we we move over to Alabama 127 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 1: at the Tuskegee Institute in Tuskegee, and this was a 128 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 1: place where you if you were a Black American and 129 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 1: you wanted to go to college and get a higher education, 130 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,600 Speaker 1: that was a great place to start. Uh. Founded in 131 00:07:56,320 --> 00:08:00,120 Speaker 1: one by Lewis Adams and Booker T. Washington UM. And 132 00:08:00,200 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: during this period they had something called the Civilian Pilot 133 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 1: Training Program, which is it was established basically to get 134 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 1: a pool of pilots with experience, uh, people who could 135 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: train pilots in the United States. And there were black 136 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: colleges participating in this program, and Tuskegee was one of them. Yeah. 137 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 1: The Howard University also had a program. UM. There were 138 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,080 Speaker 1: also like by this time, there was some UM black 139 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: aviation history that had been established and it was small, 140 00:08:33,120 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 1: but it was really proud, and rightfully so, because if 141 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: you were an African American and you said, you know 142 00:08:39,240 --> 00:08:41,719 Speaker 1: what I really look up to all these pilots too, 143 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: I want to go be a pilot. The first story 144 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: you went to got slammed in your face. The next 145 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: door you went to, slamming in your face. And again, 146 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: like the idea that black people couldn't learn how to 147 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 1: fly a plane, So how are you going to let 148 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: one fly a plane or try to teach them? What's 149 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: the point? It's also probably pretty dangerous and expensive. Um, 150 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: Like you could not as an African American get into 151 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 1: a flight school. And so some of these earliest African 152 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: American pilots in aviation history and like the say, like 153 00:09:12,240 --> 00:09:16,120 Speaker 1: the twenties, the early thirties, like some of them were 154 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: self taught. There's a guy, see Alfred Anderson, who taught 155 00:09:20,400 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: himself how to fly in land planes because no flight 156 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: school would teach him, no white pilots would teach him. 157 00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: He had to save up biz own plane and teach himself, 158 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: and he became a legend. He's known as the father 159 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 1: of black aviation in America. Yeah, and there's a like 160 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: you said, a very small but proud list, Bessie Coleman. 161 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: It was a black woman who went to France to 162 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:45,800 Speaker 1: learn to fly. She was black and Native American yeah, 163 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: we should, she should get her an episode two. Uh. 164 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: In NY two, James Banning and Thomas Allen became the 165 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: first black pilots to fly across the US from l 166 00:09:55,120 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: A to New York, and they as well. At least 167 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:01,240 Speaker 1: Banning could not go to flight school, so he basically 168 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,920 Speaker 1: found a white pilot who would give him private lessons, 169 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 1: which is pretty remarkable. Um. And the cool thing about 170 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: this story is they, uh, it cost a lot of 171 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: money to fly across the country at any point, so 172 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:19,840 Speaker 1: they would stop in black communities and raise money basically 173 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 1: and say, hey, get you know, donate some cash. You 174 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: can sign our airplane and that will allow us to 175 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: buy fuel to get to the next stop as we 176 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,520 Speaker 1: go across country. Yeah. So they became the first black 177 00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 1: pilots to fly all the way across the US as 178 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 1: a result, which is that's pretty great. But it was 179 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: like it was, it was stories like this and people 180 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 1: like these um who were profiled in the black press 181 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: at the time that I don't want to say, I 182 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 1: guess the press was pretty much segregated at least, but 183 00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:52,880 Speaker 1: for all practical purposes, African America had its own um 184 00:10:53,000 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: pressed and I guess the standard establishment press was just 185 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: writing stories about white people only, uh or things that 186 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: related to white people. So African Americans had their own press. 187 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: So stories of people like this UM spread throughout the 188 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 1: country and inspired like whole new generations of pilots. And 189 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 1: it also inspired, like you said, the Tuskegee Institute and 190 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:18,320 Speaker 1: Howard University and some other private schools like one formed 191 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:21,920 Speaker 1: by Cornelius Coffee and Willi Brown in Chicago to actually 192 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: start training black pilots. And so this is a this 193 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: is already established by the time the drumbeat, the earliest 194 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: drumbeat to World War Two started and UM, the the US, 195 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: led by Franklin Roosevelt, said we need to get the 196 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,760 Speaker 1: civilian pilot training program going because we need a pool 197 00:11:40,760 --> 00:11:43,000 Speaker 1: of people who already know how to fly in case 198 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:46,360 Speaker 1: we need to turn them into military pilots as well. Yeah, 199 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: And the the idea here with these uh, with the 200 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: black journalists and newspapers was here, here's what we want. 201 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 1: You know, there's the V for victory slogan and campaign. 202 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 1: Let's start up something and get the word out called 203 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: the double V campaign, which is basically victory in Europe 204 00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: but also for black soldiers, victory at home and trying 205 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 1: to make a dent and discrimination and racism. If we 206 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 1: go over there and we can fight and we can 207 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 1: fly planes and serve our country, maybe that might make 208 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: a difference when we come back home that we were 209 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, distinguished with our military service. So that was 210 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: a double V campaign trying to get victory at home 211 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:29,720 Speaker 1: against racism as well as in Europe on the ground 212 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,680 Speaker 1: with the military. And none of this might have happened 213 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 1: had it not been for one Eleanor Roosevelt. And maybe 214 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: we should take a break there. Yeah. What does Eleanor 215 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,080 Speaker 1: Roosevelt have to do with all this? We'll find out 216 00:12:45,120 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 1: in just a minute, all right, Chuck. So, I mean, 217 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna say it, Eleanor Roosevelt, give it up. Yeah, man, 218 00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: I mean she was a great lady in a lot 219 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,480 Speaker 1: of ways. But uh, what she did in the case 220 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: of the eventual Tuskegee Airmen was she visited Tuskegee. Um, 221 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: they had a training airfield called Moten Field m O 222 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: t O N. Yeah. Because remember this is like they're 223 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 1: they're they're flying program that they already established. Yeah, so 224 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:35,640 Speaker 1: she visits, Uh, she's watching the pilots take off, fly 225 00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 1: around land, and she was like, good argue in one 226 00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: of those planes. That is a bitch in Eleanor Roosevelt man, 227 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: And they said sure, So she went up with an 228 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: African American pilot. She she went up with that, see 229 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: Alfred Anderson, the self taught father of aviation. Yeah, and 230 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,319 Speaker 1: everything went great and she had apparently a good time, 231 00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: went back home and got in her husband's ear and 232 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, these these guys can fly planes. They're 233 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 1: doing a great job. They're fit for military service. So 234 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: let's let's get this thing going in earnest And he 235 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: did so, uh in January. So here's the thing. This 236 00:14:12,640 --> 00:14:16,199 Speaker 1: is what I'm on clear on, Like it's it's doubtless 237 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: that Eleanor Roosevelt played a role in making sure that 238 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,640 Speaker 1: this this actually happened, that that um African American pilots 239 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: were eligible to fly for the US military, the Army 240 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: Air Corps. Right, But the timing of it I can't 241 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: quite suss out either. The US military said, yeah, we're 242 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: going to establish a black pilots training program at Tuskegee 243 00:14:43,640 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: UH in January nine, and then Eleanor Roosevelt showed up 244 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 1: a couple of months later to make sure that this 245 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: actually happened, or she showed up and then they established it. 246 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: I can't quite suss that out, but either way, she's 247 00:14:56,160 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: a pretty cool lady, Like she went down and saw 248 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: for herself and then came back and said, hey, we 249 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 1: really should make this happen. Or she knew that this 250 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: was happening but also could see people just dragging their feet, 251 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,080 Speaker 1: so she went down to shine light on the whole 252 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,120 Speaker 1: prosper the project, and uh, it kind of took off 253 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: from there. I feel forgive the pun. Either way, she 254 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: she played some sort of pretty cool role in getting 255 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 1: it going. Yeah, and when it first started, there was 256 00:15:24,040 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: sort of a joint affair between Tuskegee and the Army 257 00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: Air Corps as far as uh providing funding and equipment personnel. 258 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:34,440 Speaker 1: They all sort of chipped in a little bit. Um. 259 00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: There were flying a few different planes for training, one biplane, 260 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: the Steerman PT seventeen. Eventually they were able to move 261 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: over to the Tuskegee Army air Field a few miles 262 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 1: away from Moten Field, where they had access to the 263 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: P forty Warhawk, and then they were like now we're 264 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 1: talking right, But also, I mean the initial primary training 265 00:15:55,520 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: at motion field was this kind of quasi university military training, 266 00:16:01,240 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: almost like an r OTC air training program. And then 267 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: once you graduated from primary, you moved over to the 268 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: Army field and you were full on on a military 269 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 1: base in military life. Yeah, and this like this, this 270 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: wasn't the first time that black pilots tried to apply. 271 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: Like pre Tuskegee, they were applying. Recruits were applying and 272 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: getting rejected every time they tried to get into the 273 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: Air Corps. Eventually the N double A CP got involved, 274 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: a lawsuit was filed UM. And even after that, when 275 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,560 Speaker 1: they started admitting black men into the Air Corps, it 276 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,720 Speaker 1: was ten cadets every five weeks, so they were you know, 277 00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: it looks like they were purposefully just sort of stymying 278 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,280 Speaker 1: the process through red tape and bureaucracy to still not 279 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: allow them to train. Yeah. And initially so that that 280 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 1: lawsuit UM was by a Howard University student named Yancey 281 00:16:56,400 --> 00:16:59,520 Speaker 1: Williams who wanted to be a just straight up Army 282 00:16:59,560 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: Air Corps cadet, and the N double A CP back 283 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:08,160 Speaker 1: back the lawsuit UM, and the result was apparently the 284 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: military saying, okay, we'll just start to segregated all Black 285 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: Pilot program where the n double a CP and most 286 00:17:15,240 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: black leadership wanted just integration in the Army Air Corps. 287 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:23,159 Speaker 1: So they were like, okay, fine, we'll take it, but 288 00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 1: we're not like, this is not what we were going for, 289 00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: but we'll take this. It's better than nothing. I guess, yeah, 290 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:32,959 Speaker 1: that's that's probably a good way to put it. Um. 291 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:37,040 Speaker 1: But the program starts up in earnest. However few cadets 292 00:17:37,080 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 1: they were allowing. It started to build up. These men 293 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 1: are getting trained. Um men from the north came down 294 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:45,920 Speaker 1: and this is you know, this is an Alabama during 295 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:50,200 Speaker 1: the Jim Crow era, and there are there's one documentary 296 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 1: called They Fought Two Wars, which basically was like, you know, 297 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: they're getting trained, they're serving their country, and then they 298 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,639 Speaker 1: go out like on the weekend maybe for a little 299 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,440 Speaker 1: R and R and then met by the southern whites 300 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: of Alabama who basically, you know, treated him exactly how 301 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:07,960 Speaker 1: you would expect. There was even a petition to end 302 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 1: the program just because they were like, there are so 303 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: many black men in our town. Now, we don't want 304 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,440 Speaker 1: them in our community, right, Surely something bad will happen 305 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: to our community. Because of this, there was also apparently 306 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: at least one incident where black military police were disarmed 307 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: by white locals around Tuskegee civilians Yeah, who just refused 308 00:18:29,480 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: to recognize that they had any authority over them whatsoever, 309 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:37,480 Speaker 1: military police or not. UM. And the at the time 310 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: this this happened early on, the commander of the UM 311 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: of the base, UH Ellison, James Ellison, Major James Ellison, 312 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: was UM. He protested very loudly and very vocally and 313 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: said this is messed up. I won't stand for this. 314 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: And they said, hey Ellison, UM, yeah, we need somebody 315 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:58,359 Speaker 1: who is on the side of the recruits, but maybe 316 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,720 Speaker 1: not quite so much of a true believers. So you 317 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: come over here with us and we're gonna relieve you 318 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: of your post. And instead they brought in a guy 319 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: named Colonel Noel Parrish, and he was maybe a little 320 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: less gung ho about civil rights and equality and desegregation. UM. 321 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:21,440 Speaker 1: He very much withstood and stood up with the segregationist 322 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: policies of the military. He didn't fight against it, but 323 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 1: within this framework he's very much credited for UM being 324 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: very fair, very even handed UM and giving like full throated, 325 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:42,840 Speaker 1: legitimately good UM quality training to these black recruits at Tuskegee, 326 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: like he wasn't. They weren't getting um like subpar or 327 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: or less than adequate training compared to their white counterparts elsewhere. 328 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:55,720 Speaker 1: They were getting just as good training to be trained. 329 00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 1: Like he was taking it seriously and he was being 330 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,000 Speaker 1: fair about it. So um, he's he's suspected for for 331 00:20:01,119 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: that to to have overseen this, um this this project, 332 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: I guess fairly, rather than he very easily could have 333 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 1: gone to the other side and just dragged his feet 334 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: to or put up unnecessary roadblocks and obstacles too, but 335 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: he didn't. Yeah, And one of the uh, I guess 336 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: you could call it one of the silver linings of 337 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,600 Speaker 1: the segregation in the military was there was already a 338 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:29,960 Speaker 1: ninety nine pursuit Squadron was already established, which were black 339 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:34,840 Speaker 1: cadets to get training on maintenance and tech support for UH, 340 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,879 Speaker 1: for the for the air patrol. So they were already 341 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,360 Speaker 1: in place. So by the time Tuskegee gets rolling and 342 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: these cadets are being sent in to learn to fly, 343 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: they were like, let's just give them the ninety nine 344 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 1: pursuit squadron. So it was basically an all black unit, 345 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 1: from the maintenance, to the to the technical support to 346 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: the pilots that were training. Obviously not the instructors. But 347 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: I get the feeling, you know, from research at that 348 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: lent Um some sort of uh kind of led to 349 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: camaraderie and that they had their own guys on the 350 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: ground and training you know, oh yeah, yeah for sure. 351 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 1: I mean like it was an basically an all black 352 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: squadron and not all the commanders um or trainers were 353 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: white like that. My favorite guy, chief Alfred Anderson UM, 354 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: he was the ground commander in chief that self taught 355 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: father of aviation he UM. He was the head of 356 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,920 Speaker 1: the ground commanders at Tuskegee. So there was a mixed 357 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,000 Speaker 1: But one of the things I think you kind of 358 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: hit upon that gets overlooked is when you talk about 359 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 1: Tuskegee and the Tuskegee Airmen, UM, you're talking about four 360 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: hundred to five hundred ish pilots fighter pilots typically UM 361 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: that are thought of as a Tuskegee airman. But there 362 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: were so many more people that made up like this 363 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: whole project, this whole movement basically UM that I think 364 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,399 Speaker 1: there was something like twelve housing, like people trained in 365 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:08,679 Speaker 1: aviation through the that that are really technically Tuskegee airmen. 366 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: They they are considered um so and they get overlooked 367 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: a lot because the fighter pilots get all the glory. 368 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: But I mean these are all these people played a 369 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: huge significant role in the whole thing. Yeah. So we 370 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,439 Speaker 1: mentioned uh at the onset the first African American general 371 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: Benjamin O'Davis Sr. And that his son figured prominently. So 372 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,920 Speaker 1: that's Ben Jr. Uh, he comes in. He went to 373 00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,280 Speaker 1: he followed in dad's footsteps. He went to West Point, where, 374 00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: you know, despite it was sort of like a Lord's 375 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,399 Speaker 1: of Discipline sort of seen there. Oh man, I forgot 376 00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: about that book. Yeah, man, that was good. Good movie. Um, 377 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: I make brutal to watch, but a really good movie. 378 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,479 Speaker 1: But Davis basically went to West Point, didn't give him 379 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: a roommate, made him eat by himself. Uh. They say 380 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: that he was like literally not spoken to by anybody 381 00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:01,879 Speaker 1: unless they absolutely had to speak to him. Yet he 382 00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: persevered through all this. He graduated and uh went to 383 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 1: teach at Tuskegee instead of going to command for enlisted troops. 384 00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: So it was a bit of serendipity that he ended 385 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,160 Speaker 1: up there. I think kind of right. At the same time, 386 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,120 Speaker 1: this Air Corps began, which is really really kind of cool. Yeah, 387 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,240 Speaker 1: one of the first things he did was um as 388 00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: he was I think he became the commander of the 389 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,119 Speaker 1: ninety nine Pursuit Squadron. Um. He also was one of 390 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,359 Speaker 1: their first graduates. He was in the first class to 391 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 1: graduate from flight school there. So, um, I don't know 392 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: that he had much flight training prior to that, but 393 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,520 Speaker 1: he went and learned it. Became pretty distinguished as a 394 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: pilot either way. But he he was immediately assigned the 395 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: ninety pursuit squadron. He was in charge of it, which 396 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 1: is pretty cool, right. So um as the as the 397 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:58,400 Speaker 1: um the Tuskegee Airman started to distinguish themselves, which we'll 398 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: talk about more in a minute. Um Davis kind of 399 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:06,479 Speaker 1: became distinguished as well because he was leading the whole show. Yeah, 400 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: and you know, he he had been through West Point. 401 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,919 Speaker 1: He knew what the deal was. He was like, he 402 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,720 Speaker 1: knew that there was a lot more riding on this 403 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 1: than just forming an air squadron. He was like, black 404 00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: people all around the country are looking at us, They're 405 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: banking on our success. Um, we have to like we 406 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: have to be better than the best, UM, and so 407 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,240 Speaker 1: he was really tough. He tough but fair, but he 408 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 1: would not put up with with anything that took away 409 00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: from their ultimate goal, which was to be the best 410 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: airman in the country, black or white. Um. Apparently there 411 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: were black pilots who would wash out of the program 412 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 1: that historians say, like, you know, if that was a 413 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,160 Speaker 1: white pilot, that he would have been allowed to keep going. 414 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,120 Speaker 1: Like that's how high the standard was that Davis set 415 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: for the Tuskegee Airman, Right, Well, it wasn't just Davis, 416 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: I think. I think they were saying like they were 417 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:03,399 Speaker 1: unfairly not given their wings, whereas a white pilot elsewhere 418 00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 1: in another base undergoing training wouldn't have washed out. So 419 00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: some of the pilots that that did wash out probably 420 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: did because they were being held to unfair racist standards, 421 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,680 Speaker 1: not necessarily by Davis, but by some of the white 422 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: commanders and trainers. You see what I'm saying. Yeah, but 423 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:24,760 Speaker 1: I saw where Davis was very quick to give someone 424 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:26,600 Speaker 1: the aust if they didn't think they were living up 425 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:30,240 Speaker 1: to their position. Yeah. So the upshot of that, though, Chuck, 426 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: was that, UM, the people who graduated from this program 427 00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: at Tuskegee were really really good pilots. I mean really 428 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:45,440 Speaker 1: good pilots. They were just held to, whether fair or unfair, 429 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:48,520 Speaker 1: higher standards. They had to prove themselves more than say, 430 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,200 Speaker 1: their white counterparts at other bases, and so the ones 431 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:55,200 Speaker 1: who actually did manage graduate were just as good as 432 00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,440 Speaker 1: it got. But what's said is for the people who 433 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:01,600 Speaker 1: washed out, they might not have washed out of some 434 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 1: of the other programs, like if they had been white 435 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,000 Speaker 1: elsewhere in another program. Um. So that and of itself 436 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 1: is kind of demoralizing. But what really getches when you 437 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: step back and realize, like the the the men who 438 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 1: were going through pilot training program were the face of 439 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,240 Speaker 1: black America, and so not only were they being watched 440 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: by you know, um, by racists whites and supportive whites too, 441 00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: but but say from racist whites to just watch for 442 00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:36,240 Speaker 1: them to fail. I think Henry L. Stimpson, who was 443 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 1: the Secretary of War, said sure, we're going to give 444 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,280 Speaker 1: him a shot, but I expect nothing less than disaster 445 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,640 Speaker 1: to be produced by this. And I think he met 446 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: like literal disaster, like planes crashing everywhere kind of thing. 447 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,119 Speaker 1: So not only did you have like that kind of 448 00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,199 Speaker 1: observation going on you at all time. You also carried 449 00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 1: with you the hopes and dreams and expectations of Black America, 450 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,639 Speaker 1: and not just Black America something big, in amorphous and 451 00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,439 Speaker 1: vague like that, but your family and your church group 452 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 1: and your community back home. We're all like pulling for 453 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,320 Speaker 1: you but also really expecting everything from you. And if 454 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,199 Speaker 1: you graduated, that was huge, and if you washed out, 455 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm sure that was equally huge in the other direction. Yeah. 456 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:23,480 Speaker 1: So March uh two was when the first class of 457 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: cadets graduated. Um, it would take another like four months 458 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,679 Speaker 1: or so five months to get enough pilots, you know, 459 00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: graduating through the program that they were a full fighter squadron. 460 00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:39,000 Speaker 1: And the early results you know they were. There were 461 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: very high ranking US officials that were pretty impressed early on, 462 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: including that Secretary of War Stimpson that you you talked 463 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: about that predicted disaster. Yeah, he had a change of heart. Yeah, 464 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,239 Speaker 1: he visited Tuskegee and said, the outfit looks as good 465 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,800 Speaker 1: as any I've ever seen. Major General James Julio said, 466 00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,920 Speaker 1: from results so far obtained to believe that the squadron 467 00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:01,439 Speaker 1: will give an excellent account of itself in combat. And 468 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 1: that it would be a credit to its race and 469 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 1: two Americans everywhere. Um. And despite this, it still took 470 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,320 Speaker 1: a long time to get the full confidence to actually 471 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,720 Speaker 1: send them into the theater of war in Europe. Well. Yeah, 472 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: and I don't even know if it was confidence. I think, well, 473 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 1: I guess it was confidence in a way. But there 474 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:22,960 Speaker 1: were other commanders of at the time they call them 475 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:26,359 Speaker 1: air forces, where it was like squadrons and groups just 476 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,880 Speaker 1: put together like a huge mass of of UM. Air 477 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: Corps subdivisions were called air forces at the time, So 478 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: if you were running the show in an air force, 479 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:36,840 Speaker 1: you'd be like, I don't want them, I don't want them. 480 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: And all of them were saying I don't want them. 481 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 1: They couldn't give them away, so they were just stuck 482 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: in America, while um, the United States had already joined 483 00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: World War two and was all fighting in places like 484 00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,800 Speaker 1: North Africa and the Mediterranean. Yeah, and I think, you know, 485 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is confirmed, but some say 486 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,719 Speaker 1: that Eleanor Roosevelt got in her husband's ear once again. Uh. 487 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,440 Speaker 1: And finally, in what April ninety three, they got their 488 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: first orders thee to go to North Africa. Uh. In 489 00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 1: nineteen forty three, which was what is up like two 490 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: years after the first graduated class. So you know the 491 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 1: upshot to this though, is they're still training this whole time, 492 00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,440 Speaker 1: right right, They're just getting better and better in training. 493 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:21,000 Speaker 1: But can you imagine like having to sit around and 494 00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,160 Speaker 1: wait waiting for the order to get out there? Yeah? 495 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 1: So UM, some of the first assignments they got when 496 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:33,000 Speaker 1: they were running sorties off of North Africa. Um, they 497 00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: were there was an island called Panatella, I believe into 498 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:45,000 Speaker 1: a knee cap Uh it's Pantalaria, Pantellaria. Wow, that was 499 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,200 Speaker 1: way off, Thank you for correct Yes, Um, Pantellaria was 500 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,960 Speaker 1: occupied by the Italian Army and they gave up. They 501 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,840 Speaker 1: surrendered the island without any ground forces having to land 502 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,560 Speaker 1: because the Tuskegee airmen were bombing them so bad. They 503 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: were sent dive bombing campaigns. And that usually consists of 504 00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: attacking a ground position, whether it's like um, some sort 505 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: of transport like transport planes and an airfield or rail 506 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,800 Speaker 1: cars or um, you know, gas or water, infrastructure, just 507 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 1: stuff to make the enemy rather uncomfortable or unable to 508 00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:25,040 Speaker 1: operate in this place that they've occupied. Um. And it 509 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:30,600 Speaker 1: very rarely, uh requires any kind of aerial dog fighting 510 00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,840 Speaker 1: like we think of with fighter fighter pilots. It's more 511 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: just attacking the enemy where they are rather than trying 512 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 1: to battle for domination of the skies. That's what a 513 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:43,760 Speaker 1: dog fight is, It's what um fighter to fighter combat is. 514 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,280 Speaker 1: So this is different. So you're not gonna encounter other 515 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: fighters typically, so you're not gonna have as many kills. 516 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,720 Speaker 1: They don't count like blowing up a set of rail 517 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: cars as a kill, you have to shoot another fighter 518 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: plane out of the sky, and that's what they really 519 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,720 Speaker 1: count when you're a fighter pilot it. But if you're 520 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,960 Speaker 1: not being assigned those kind of sorties, you're not gonna 521 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:07,160 Speaker 1: rack up kills like that. So everybody understood this. This 522 00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: was fine, But apparently somebody was talking to the press 523 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,240 Speaker 1: back in America and ended up getting a story out 524 00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 1: of Time magazine that questioned the ninety nine fighter squadrons 525 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,239 Speaker 1: bravery because they've been flying all sorts of authorities, But 526 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 1: where were all their kills? All these other white pilots 527 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: had all these kills, Where was the Tuskegee Airmen's kills? 528 00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 1: And the the context of that wasn't put into that 529 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,240 Speaker 1: that magazine. So what the rest of America read was 530 00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 1: the Tuskegee Airmen or cowards. And all of a sudden, 531 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,960 Speaker 1: Benjamin O'Davis Jr. Finds himself being called back to Washington 532 00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:46,520 Speaker 1: to explain why his squadron are being called cowards in 533 00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: the national press. That's right, so let's pick that up 534 00:31:49,800 --> 00:32:14,400 Speaker 1: right after this message, because things changed in January. All right, 535 00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:18,880 Speaker 1: So the Tuskegee Airmen are over there, uh doing these 536 00:32:19,280 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: um you know, they're dropping bombs. They did get a 537 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:26,480 Speaker 1: little bit of um fighter to fighter action, but not enough, 538 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,800 Speaker 1: you know, to toward the press off. Uh. This is 539 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 1: despite the fact that they had virtually um you know, 540 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:35,800 Speaker 1: they were still segregated. You know. What they usually did 541 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: was say, here, let's mix in these uh, these new 542 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: guys with some experience guys, and they can sort of 543 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,560 Speaker 1: mentor them and help them out. Because it was segregated, 544 00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: they kept them separate. And yet they still persevered through 545 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,560 Speaker 1: all this. Uh. Like you said before the break, Davis 546 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:55,040 Speaker 1: comes home to the US to sort of battle these reports. Uh. 547 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,880 Speaker 1: And then things took a real change. In January. There 548 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: was a uh patrol unit of twelve planes flying over 549 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:07,440 Speaker 1: on CEO and they spotted these German fighters. Um, just 550 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 1: like like Maverick and Goose and Top Gun although they 551 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:16,440 Speaker 1: were just training, right battle and top Gun right, No, 552 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 1: there wasn't a battle, but they did engage that MiG 553 00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: Remember he flew upside down and flipped him off and 554 00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:25,080 Speaker 1: took a polaroid. So dumb. So we're doing a sequel 555 00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:28,720 Speaker 1: to that, you know, like a sequel with Tom Cruise 556 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,080 Speaker 1: and really yeah, yeah, and it's exactly what you would think. 557 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,280 Speaker 1: It's Tom Cruise is now the veteran instructor and a 558 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: and a young Maverick comes under his watch, and I 559 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 1: don't even know, I'm not even sure, but it's I'm 560 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: sure it's one of those deals where you know, Cruise 561 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,080 Speaker 1: gets to say, like I was you. Yeah, I'm gonna 562 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,040 Speaker 1: toss Christian Navarro's hat in the ring. How about that? 563 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,400 Speaker 1: I think they've already cast it, but uh, you never know. 564 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,360 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe we've got some whole chuck and we're just influence. Yeah, Christian, 565 00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:06,640 Speaker 1: if you're listening, we we're rooting for you, my friend. So, uh, 566 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,759 Speaker 1: they see these German fighters, these twelve planes, and they're like, 567 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,439 Speaker 1: let's go get them fellas. Uh, and they get into 568 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,040 Speaker 1: a dog fight, pretty legendary dog fight, and they record 569 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,600 Speaker 1: five kills in about four or five minutes, no losses, 570 00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:21,359 Speaker 1: no losses. That's a big one too, Yeah, And it 571 00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 1: was a very big deal for the ninety nine after that. 572 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: And this was like after these reports had come into 573 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,520 Speaker 1: the US. They weren't like they were fairly dejected, but 574 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:34,120 Speaker 1: that made him hungrier than ever. And this is why 575 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:38,719 Speaker 1: they sort of flung themselves headlong into this attack and 576 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: they made the news and they became known all of 577 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,520 Speaker 1: a sudden as these pilots that would really go after 578 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 1: the Germans. They have a high kill rate, and it 579 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:49,960 Speaker 1: was a big deal. Yeah. So there's two other things. 580 00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: So not only um were they were they not being 581 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 1: assigned missions typically that would rack up high kill rates, 582 00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,480 Speaker 1: so how can you criticize them for that? But secondly, 583 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:01,440 Speaker 1: when they were in North afric in their first assignment, 584 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 1: they were given really old, really obsolete planes and they 585 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: were um when they did engage German UH fighter pilots, 586 00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:15,080 Speaker 1: they were out out classed as far as the planes 587 00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,759 Speaker 1: are concerned. And they were still taking out Germans and 588 00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 1: dog fights, so like they had a lot going against 589 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:25,360 Speaker 1: them and still managed to prove themselves and then something 590 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 1: really big change. They got transferred over to the UM 591 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:34,960 Speaker 1: I believe, the fifteen Air Force and the nine hundred 592 00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:39,240 Speaker 1: first and the three hundred and second, the four Tuskegee 593 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: UM fighter pilot squadrons were all brought together under the 594 00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,760 Speaker 1: three hundred and thirty second Fighter Group under the command 595 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:49,680 Speaker 1: now of Benjamin O'Davis Jr. Is a colonel at this 596 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:54,399 Speaker 1: point yep who and then placed under the fifteen Air 597 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,399 Speaker 1: Force and the Benjamin O'Davis Jr. And the guy who 598 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:03,279 Speaker 1: headed up fifteen their force. They they had the same 599 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: philosophy for the kinds of assignments that the Tuskegee Airmen 600 00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: would be carrying out from now on, which were bomber escorts, 601 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: and it was don't leave the bomber squadron. Like when 602 00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:17,799 Speaker 1: you're escorting bombers, that's the point. You don't you don't 603 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,560 Speaker 1: peel off and chase after any other jets that are 604 00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,960 Speaker 1: like any German jets that are coming towards you. And 605 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 1: there were German jets, but German fighter planes, UM, And 606 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,040 Speaker 1: you don't chase them away. You just stay with the bombers. 607 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,200 Speaker 1: That's your point. And UM that's another thing that's not 608 00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:34,880 Speaker 1: like you're not going to rack up a ton of 609 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,080 Speaker 1: kills in that respect. Yeah, I'm sure it was tough, like, 610 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,799 Speaker 1: especially given their reputation, they wanted to go shoot down 611 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: German planes and Davis was like, no, man, you gotta like, uh, 612 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,319 Speaker 1: you gotta be disciplined in these these bombers are under 613 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:50,920 Speaker 1: threat and you gotta stick with them and so um. 614 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:53,520 Speaker 1: As a result of this, they developed like a really 615 00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:58,600 Speaker 1: great reputation for for safely escorting bombers to their destination. 616 00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: I mean, if you're part of a bomber fleet, you're 617 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:06,719 Speaker 1: flying behind enemy lines to go bomb a city or 618 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: an oil refinery or something like that. And the purpose 619 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,239 Speaker 1: of these planes is not to shoot other planes out 620 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: of the sky. It's to drop bombs. So you need 621 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: fighter jets to escort you, fighter planes to escort you 622 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,440 Speaker 1: to these drop sites, and um shoot away any other 623 00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: planes that are going to try to shoot you out 624 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 1: of the sky. So it's pretty hairy, but it's also 625 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,839 Speaker 1: um like you're protecting the bombers. That's the point. So 626 00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,759 Speaker 1: the reputation that they developed Chuck actually became legendary. There 627 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:40,160 Speaker 1: was a false, a false myth that generated around it. 628 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,839 Speaker 1: But one that even when you peel away the myth 629 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,000 Speaker 1: and look at reality, it's still pretty impressive. Yeah. And 630 00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:48,400 Speaker 1: the other thing that helped too was in you know, 631 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: we mentioned that they were flying um, I mean, they 632 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 1: weren't obsolete planes, they were just not as good as 633 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,960 Speaker 1: what they were flying against. Uh. They finally get the 634 00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,600 Speaker 1: fifth one Mustang and they were like, now we're talking dudes, 635 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,000 Speaker 1: like this is this is go time? Really cool airplane. 636 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: One of my favorites of all time is that fifty 637 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:09,600 Speaker 1: one Mustang. That's the World War two fire plane that 638 00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,879 Speaker 1: everybody thinks of. Yeah, I mean it's it's I want 639 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:14,399 Speaker 1: to use words here, I can't use on this show 640 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,359 Speaker 1: to describe it because I get so excited about it. 641 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,080 Speaker 1: But it's pretty sweet. So they now finally had and 642 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,359 Speaker 1: you did mention the jet, you know, the MEU the 643 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,480 Speaker 1: m E two six two from Germany was the first 644 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: jet that used in combat like that. And if you 645 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:31,600 Speaker 1: look at this thing, it looks like I would rather 646 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: have the Mustang. This thing looks dangerous to me. It 647 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: may well have been. I don't know much about it. Oh, 648 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:38,320 Speaker 1: you mean to be like the pilot of it, Yeah, 649 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:40,680 Speaker 1: I mean it was just an early small jet like 650 00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:42,920 Speaker 1: I can't. I don't know. It was probably pretty scary 651 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,880 Speaker 1: to fly, or maybe it was great. I don't know. 652 00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:48,279 Speaker 1: I'm but the three thirty second Now with their P 653 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,840 Speaker 1: fifty ones, they start painting there. You know we mentioned 654 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,400 Speaker 1: the movie Red Tails. That can comes from what they 655 00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:57,520 Speaker 1: did on their wing. They painted their the tail of 656 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 1: their plane red and that they became known for that. 657 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: It was very distinguishable from the air and there were 658 00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,799 Speaker 1: a lot of bomber pilots who were like, we want 659 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,359 Speaker 1: these red Tales because these guys are awesome. And some 660 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:10,880 Speaker 1: of them didn't even know that they were black pilots. 661 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:14,760 Speaker 1: They just knew that they were Red Tails, right. And 662 00:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,919 Speaker 1: and again the Red Tails had developed a really good 663 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,959 Speaker 1: reputation for escorting bombers to their bomb sites. Um and 664 00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:25,120 Speaker 1: what was their rank? What did they lose? Uh? I 665 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 1: know that for many many years they said they never 666 00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,880 Speaker 1: lost a bomber, which is not true. They didn't. One 667 00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:33,480 Speaker 1: of the newspapers in Chicago, the Chicago Defender, published a 668 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:38,640 Speaker 1: story in that of more than two hundred bomber escort missions, 669 00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:43,680 Speaker 1: the Tuskegee Airmen never lost a bomber. Today is in 670 00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,080 Speaker 1: people not the airmen. But that was the that was 671 00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,280 Speaker 1: the myth that developed that they never lost a bomber. 672 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: That is basically impossible over something like two hundred missions. Um. 673 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,880 Speaker 1: But that's the myth that stood for um like fifty 674 00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: sixty years something like that. And then finally in a 675 00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: story and with the Air Force like actually dug in 676 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:10,520 Speaker 1: and did the shoe leather work on it and found, um, no, 677 00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,080 Speaker 1: actually they did lose some bombers. They lost something like, uh, 678 00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:17,919 Speaker 1: I think twenty six or twenty seven bombers, but out 679 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,920 Speaker 1: of like the two hundreds something missions, that is still 680 00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:26,200 Speaker 1: a ridiculously small amount. And that other um squadrons and 681 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:30,760 Speaker 1: fighter groups in the fifteenth Air Force they average something 682 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: like forty seven, so almost double what the Tuskegee Airman 683 00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,600 Speaker 1: saw in losses. So they had paltry losses. But yeah, 684 00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,279 Speaker 1: the idea that they just wouldn't have ever lost a 685 00:40:41,320 --> 00:40:45,319 Speaker 1: bomber is it's it's impossible. You just couldn't not lose 686 00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,719 Speaker 1: a bomber over that many missions. So you know, we 687 00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:53,600 Speaker 1: all know how World War two ends. UM spoiler alert, 688 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: the Allies. Uh, the Allies did their job, and so 689 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 1: the Tuskegee Airmen start to get sent home like with 690 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,920 Speaker 1: other troops over the years. And here's the you know 691 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,440 Speaker 1: that the double V campaign. They were hoping they come 692 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,759 Speaker 1: home and they are more accepted, and they might even 693 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 1: be revered, they might get good jobs, they might become 694 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: commercial airline pilots. None of those things happened. Very sadly, 695 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,080 Speaker 1: that did not equate to equality back home, which is 696 00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,760 Speaker 1: one of the troope like black eyes on this country's history. 697 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:28,839 Speaker 1: You know, yeah, um, some of them, I mean yeah, 698 00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: that was it should have just automatically triggered. Well, they 699 00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:36,319 Speaker 1: shouldn't have This should have never happened in the first place, right, 700 00:41:36,440 --> 00:41:40,960 Speaker 1: like dragging feet on segregation and making African America jump 701 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,399 Speaker 1: through these hoops like this, um, rather than just integrating, 702 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:49,480 Speaker 1: like making a segregated Air Air Corps squadron first and 703 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,799 Speaker 1: letting them prove themselves like that and then once they 704 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:56,560 Speaker 1: proved themselves still not opening doors or anything like that. Um. 705 00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: It that it should have never happened. But the fact 706 00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: that it didn't happen automatically is pretty pretty shameful. It 707 00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:10,200 Speaker 1: did they It's not like they weren't successful. Though. They 708 00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: laid the groundwork and they laid the foundation, and they 709 00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: began the momentum for a lot of people, say the 710 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,920 Speaker 1: civil rights movement that, um, they they what they the 711 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: groundwork that they laid, the way that they changed America's 712 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:29,640 Speaker 1: minds about black people in general, like oh, they actually 713 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,359 Speaker 1: can fly planes, and oh they can't shoot Germans out 714 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,279 Speaker 1: of the sky, and oh look at this, they can 715 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:39,400 Speaker 1: actually do better at bomber escorts than white counterparts. Right. Um, 716 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,920 Speaker 1: that change and mentality that they were able to take 717 00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:46,920 Speaker 1: advantage of in this circumstance and history, that changed everything. 718 00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:49,360 Speaker 1: So they were very much successful in that. It's just 719 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,360 Speaker 1: shameful that that they had to just keep fighting and 720 00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,479 Speaker 1: keep pressing on that this was really just the first 721 00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:57,360 Speaker 1: step rather than the last. Yeah, for sure, But I 722 00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: mean I think that wording is is perfect picked. It 723 00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:06,600 Speaker 1: was the groundwork, absolutely, the foundation. Foundational groundwork was laid. Um. 724 00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,759 Speaker 1: As for Colonel Davis, he uh after the war in 725 00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: ninety is when Truman ended segregation in the military. Uh. 726 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,920 Speaker 1: Colonel Davis advised on that integration and had a great career. 727 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:22,160 Speaker 1: He retired in nineteen seventy and in very cool was 728 00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: made an honorary General of the Air Force, four star general. 729 00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:30,280 Speaker 1: So he'd made it to lieutenant general before he retired, UM, 730 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,359 Speaker 1: and I think a four star lieutenant general, and then 731 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,399 Speaker 1: Clinton advanced him to general, so he was a four 732 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,680 Speaker 1: star general of the Air Force after retirement. That's right. Yeah, 733 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:44,000 Speaker 1: pretty great story. Yeah, it is a pretty great story. 734 00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,560 Speaker 1: There was also something called the Freeman Field Mutiny, which 735 00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:49,400 Speaker 1: is kind of happening in the off to the side 736 00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 1: the UM. The Tuskegee Airman also formed a bombardier group, 737 00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:57,720 Speaker 1: a bomber group of bomber pilots that never saw any action, 738 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 1: but saw a lot of races and segregation in back 739 00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: at home during training. And there was one event that's 740 00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:10,839 Speaker 1: called the Freeman Field Mutiny where they basically protested segregated 741 00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: officers clubs, segregated and unequal officers clubs. And the way 742 00:44:15,160 --> 00:44:19,360 Speaker 1: that they protested it um through basically civil disobedience, but 743 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: in the military at a time when you could be 744 00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: executed for disobeying and direct order, which they were given. UM, 745 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,920 Speaker 1: they stood up for their civil rights. And that's another 746 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: way that that another thing that's pointed to as laying 747 00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:38,040 Speaker 1: the foundation for the civil rights movement, peaceful civil disobedience, 748 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:41,280 Speaker 1: and that actually came out of the Tuskegee Airman's story 749 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,160 Speaker 1: as well. Absolutely good stuff, good stuff. Check. This is 750 00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,640 Speaker 1: a good idea to cover this one. Yeah, I mean 751 00:44:47,640 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: this was long overdue. But uh, like I said, I 752 00:44:50,239 --> 00:44:52,200 Speaker 1: don't think we had an article on the House of 753 00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:54,319 Speaker 1: Fork site, so we just went out and had it 754 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:58,560 Speaker 1: commissioned on our own. Nice work. Uh. Well, let's see. 755 00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:01,120 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about the Tuskegee Airmen, apparently, 756 00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,319 Speaker 1: go watch a couple of so so movies. There's some 757 00:45:03,400 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: documentaries out there. One of them is called They Fought 758 00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:09,560 Speaker 1: Two Wars, which is perfectly titled. Um. And there's also 759 00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:12,720 Speaker 1: I think an American experiences a lot of stuff. Start reading, 760 00:45:13,080 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: go to Tuskegee, Alabama. Do all that stuff? Okay, yes, 761 00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:18,960 Speaker 1: And since I said do all that stuff, it is 762 00:45:18,960 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 1: time for listener man, I'm gonna call this, uh the 763 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:27,920 Speaker 1: Tits Project. Hey, guys, just listen to the elephant episode. 764 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,560 Speaker 1: And Josh mentioned that typically groups of birds and deer 765 00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,040 Speaker 1: don't actually know each other like elephants and recognize one 766 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:36,560 Speaker 1: from the other. However, I just read an article in 767 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,680 Speaker 1: a recent Audubon magazine. Um, I know, he said typically, 768 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: but I wanted to point you towards this study that 769 00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,680 Speaker 1: is really interesting, the with Them Tit project in Britain. 770 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,600 Speaker 1: It is a very long running study where they're looking 771 00:45:48,640 --> 00:45:51,960 Speaker 1: at the relationships between tits in Britain and they have 772 00:45:52,000 --> 00:45:54,840 Speaker 1: found that they run in social groups and appear to 773 00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,759 Speaker 1: have friends. I highly recommend giving a read appearent when 774 00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,880 Speaker 1: these guys must recognize each other. And I actually read it, 775 00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:03,879 Speaker 1: and that's why I'm recommending it because it's a really 776 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:07,800 Speaker 1: great article. It's uh, it's called It's from Audubon Magazine, 777 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:11,520 Speaker 1: Audubon dot com or I'm sorry dot org the Surprising 778 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,959 Speaker 1: connection between Birds, Facebook and other social networks. Very cool article. 779 00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:20,400 Speaker 1: So that is from Miranda and Duluth, Minnesota. Nice. You 780 00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,520 Speaker 1: can go read that and have fun, fun, fun on 781 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 1: the Audubon magazine until Daddy takes your laptop away. Weird. 782 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: That was great, Chuck. I don't think we can improve 783 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:33,000 Speaker 1: on that. So we're just going to say, if you 784 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,520 Speaker 1: want to get in touch with us, you can um 785 00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,000 Speaker 1: join us on all of our social media networks. UH, 786 00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,240 Speaker 1: go to stuff you should know dot com. It's basically 787 00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: the clearinghouse for links to find us hanging out on 788 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:47,440 Speaker 1: the social meds. UH. And you can also send us 789 00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:52,560 Speaker 1: an email, send it to stuff podcast at that's the 790 00:46:52,600 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 1: AT symbol how stuff works dot com. For more on 791 00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:04,640 Speaker 1: this and thousands of other topics, visit how stuff works 792 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:15,120 Speaker 1: dot com. M h m