WEBVTT - What’s Wrong with DEI? (Part 2) 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.400 Keep on riding with us as we continue to broadcast 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:04.560 the balance and defend the discourse from the Hip Hop 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:06.960 Weekly Studios. Welcome back to Civic Cipher. I am still 0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:08.520 your host, Ramsey's Ja. 0:00:08.760 --> 0:00:12.000 He is still your host, ramses Ja. 0:00:12.560 --> 0:00:16.280 I am q Ward and you are hopefully tuned in 0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:18.640 again to Civic Cipher. 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:18.959 And we love that. 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:22.160 Don't we stick around because we are hanging out with 0:00:22.440 --> 0:00:24.840 a couple of guests that we think highly of. We 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:27.760 have DJ and Kaija on the phone. DJ's president of 0:00:27.760 --> 0:00:29.800 the Black Student Union at the University of Arizona and 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:32.519 Kaija there's an activist working closely with the Department of 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:35.960 African American Student Affairs. And we're having a conversation about, 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:40.879 you know, sort of the DEI rollbacks and the threats 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:43.760 of you know, defunding these institutions if they continue to 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.120 support marginalized communities. And we're also going to have a 0:00:48.159 --> 0:00:50.920 conversation as part of the show about the other side, 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:55.800 what are some arguments against DEI that people think are 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:59.440 valid and hopefully trying to address those concerns. But before 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:01.760 we get there, it's time to Baba become a better 0:01:01.800 --> 0:01:06.160 ally Baba and today's Baba is we're going to talk 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:08.880 about Grassroots Law dot org. I'm going to share a 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:11.680 bit from their website. This is in their own words, 0:01:11.959 --> 0:01:13.360 so this is not my words. This is in their 0:01:13.400 --> 0:01:16.640 own words, directly from their website. How do we stop 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:21.200 the devastating impacts of police violence and mass incarceration in America? 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.760 This is our policy plan to do just that. It 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:26.399 is a living document that can be improved upon. It 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:29.040 was written with support and guidance from a dozen leading 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:33.760 policy experts, activists, and impacted families. White supremacy, bigotry, greed, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.240 and corruption are at the center of police violence and 0:01:36.280 --> 0:01:39.920 mass incarceration. But these systems are complex, deeply entrenched, and 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:42.680 took hundreds of years and millions of laws and policies 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.280 to create. Dismantling them and replacing them with something imaginative 0:01:46.319 --> 0:01:48.919 and redemptive will be the work of our lives. But together, 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.480 step by step, we can do this. Grassroots Law Project 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:55.680 is a five oh one c four nonprofit organization that 0:01:55.800 --> 0:01:59.960 primarily focuses on education and advocacy related to criminal legal 0:02:00.080 --> 0:02:06.040 systems and people impacted by police violence and mass incarceration. 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:10.000 Now there's a separate organization called Grassroots Law pack. This 0:02:10.160 --> 0:02:13.680 is a federal political committee. It primarily helps elect or 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:17.480 endorse candidates through a variety of activities aimed at influencing 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:21.920 the outcome of elections. And you can do you can 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.119 learn more about these and also donate to both, and 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:26.280 you can find them at. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.080 Grassroots Law dot org. 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:33.360 And you know, right now, in between elections, this isn't 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:36.959 you know, election season in this country. Now's the time 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:39.320 when we get prepared for the next election, not two 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:44.000 weeks out, not two months out now, and we're talking midterms, 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:46.280 and we're talking, of course the federal election, which is 0:02:46.280 --> 0:02:49.280 some years away. But now's the time that you take 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.160 these steps. So again, check out more at Grassroots Law 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:56.400 dot org and you know, be prepared to share what 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.280 you got. Let's get it together, all right, Okay, what's 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:02.920 wrong with DEI? 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.880 So here's what happened. Now. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:11.000 Q knows this, but I haven't run this by him 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.399 because you know, this is we're going to go through 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:19.640 this together. I came across something on the internet. I 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.000 won't say which website, I won't, you know whatever, but 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:23.880 I did come across something and I will credit the 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:30.119 author of it that kind of illuminates the other side right, 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:35.080 because around here we've famously seen the benefits of DEI, 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:39.560 we can see them in practice, and we can see, 0:03:39.840 --> 0:03:42.040 at least in theory, where it aims to go in 0:03:42.080 --> 0:03:46.680 the future. Even if it's not yet perfect, it's not 0:03:46.840 --> 0:03:50.520 inconsistent with the aim of affirmative action, and it addresses 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:54.440 many of the same issues, the same foundational issues that 0:03:55.240 --> 0:03:59.960 have resulted in you know, higher incarceration rates for black 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:06.840 and brown communities and uh, you know, healthcare outcomes and 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:13.080 housing discrimination, and you know, uh in unequal employment opportunities 0:04:13.200 --> 0:04:16.320 and and n n an Right, it's a long list. 0:04:17.600 --> 0:04:20.480 So I come across this in a format that we 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:22.880 could use on the show that kind of explains at 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.719 least one of the arguments against DEI, and I'm going 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.080 to share that right now. So the author of this 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:33.080 is Matthew Bates, and he writes, you know, why is 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.640 di I so destructive? And then he goes on to 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:39.479 say this, when it comes to the field of education, 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.520 the E and the I parts of d I are 0:04:42.560 --> 0:04:46.159 the most destructive. The E stands for equity. That replaced 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.119 equality as the mantra in education about ten to fifteen 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.560 years ago. With equity, the focus was on equal treatment. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.880 Sorry with equality, the focus was on equal treatment. With equity, 0:04:56.120 --> 0:04:59.640 the focus is on equal outcomes. Ultimately you end up 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:01.760 with pow like And then he is going to list 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:06.400 these policies. Number one, grading for equity, which forces teachers 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:10.120 to factor empathy into their formative assessment of students. So 0:05:10.279 --> 0:05:12.560 if there's one hundred question test and a student only 0:05:12.560 --> 0:05:15.800 gets fifty questions correct, but that student has challenges outside 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.080 of school, like parents who live in poverty, the teacher 0:05:18.120 --> 0:05:20.680 is expected to give that student bonus points so their 0:05:20.720 --> 0:05:23.240 grade is more equitable to their peers who do not 0:05:23.320 --> 0:05:26.159 live in poverty. The next point he makes is fifty 0:05:26.200 --> 0:05:29.159 percent floor for grades, which is exactly what it sounds like. 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:32.240 A student can turn in zero percent work and still 0:05:32.240 --> 0:05:34.240 get a fifty percent grade. The idea is that they 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.040 won't dig themselves into such a hole that they can 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:40.640 that they just give up. The next one says elimination 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.960 of honors programs all right, because the demographics and those 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:46.240 programs aren't reflective of the demographics of the. 0:05:46.200 --> 0:05:47.279 Community as a whole. 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.760 The high flyers have their wings clipped, so they fly 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.039 at the same level as everyone else. Sucks for the 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:54.679 high flyers, though, The next one he says is lacks 0:05:54.760 --> 0:05:59.320 discipline policies, usually called something like restorative justice. So that's 0:05:59.400 --> 0:06:03.000 kind of a jab that he's taking, which result in 0:06:03.320 --> 0:06:07.760 an explosion of behavior problems with students, which is directly 0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:10.360 responsible for the current teacher shortage. There are more than 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:13.719 enough certified teachers in this country, there just aren't enough 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.000 who are willing to put up with the behavior problems 0:06:16.000 --> 0:06:18.919 in schools. Many school districts have no suspensions policies in 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:20.760 place now for equity reasons. 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:21.480 A lack of. 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:24.400 Suspensions just means the troublemakers stay in the classroom more 0:06:25.320 --> 0:06:29.159 and then lowered standards for graduation, leading to inflated graduation rates. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:31.160 This in turn leads to students taking out loans for 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.599 college under the false assumption that they're prepared for college. 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:37.080 College has also had to increase their remedial course offerings 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.400 for new students and also cheapens the value of high 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.440 school diploma for everyone when literally any student can get one. 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.040 This is how you end up with this, And he 0:06:44.080 --> 0:06:47.280 has a graph, and then he goes on to say 0:06:47.279 --> 0:06:50.040 the ipart of dei, which is inclusion, has been around 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:53.000 in education since late seventies when people talk about the 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.159 inclusion education, they're usually talking about putting students with special 0:06:56.200 --> 0:06:58.480 needs in regular classroom. This actually isn't a big deal 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.280 as long as those students don't significant increase the teacher's 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.680 workload or cause major disruptions but their classmates. All of 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:08.280 that is usually possible if schools have the proper resources. 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:08.600 Which they usually don't. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:10.920 In fact, one of the main purposes of inclusion these 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.600 days is to save the district money from hiring special 0:07:13.720 --> 0:07:16.960 education teachers. The actual result of inclusion in schools is 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:20.160 usually more like students with major behavioral issues being allowed 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.440 to disrupt their classmates. It's not just the students who 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.520 cannot stop talking or wandering the room while the teacher 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.080 is trying to teach. It's also the students who trash 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:32.400 the classrooms. It is not uncommon now in many public 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:35.720 schools for teachers to have aid tell all to the 0:07:35.760 --> 0:07:38.440 other students to leave the room because a student with 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:43.720 behavioral problems is in crisis and trashing classroom. And then 0:07:43.760 --> 0:07:46.560 there's a photo of a trash classroom. All right, last 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:51.880 little bit. Teachers being overwhelmed with unrealistic expectations for their 0:07:51.880 --> 0:07:54.120 students with special needs. Every student of special needs has 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:56.880 something called an IEP plan or five or four plan, 0:07:56.960 --> 0:08:01.640 which is legally binding forms which say exactly what teachers 0:08:01.640 --> 0:08:04.040 are supposed to do for that one student. Have five 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:06.120 students with special needs in your class of thirty students, 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.480 good luck with the other twenty five students getting any 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:09.360 of the teacher's attention. 0:08:09.720 --> 0:08:12.120 No one really cares about the D part. 0:08:11.960 --> 0:08:14.240 Of d I when it comes to education, except the 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.920 politicians and others in positions of power who like pictures 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:20.880 of diverse groups of students for their websites and social media. 0:08:21.040 --> 0:08:23.520 If you're the only kid in a wheelchair at your 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.360 public school, congrats, you're going to find your way into 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:30.080 a lot of the district's pictures. Okay, so sorry that 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.040 took a while. But you know, for people that are 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:39.840 on that side, of course, uh, they get exactly what 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:48.199 they want to serve as cover for how they how 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.440 they really feel, in our opinion, they really feel like, okay, 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:55.320 we don't want I mean, look at look at it, 0:08:55.360 --> 0:08:57.920 you know, look at the once once white folks get 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:02.760 enough money, generally speaking, and put their kids into private schools. 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.679 Right now, you could argue that these private schools are 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.720 well and not just white wild all people do this. 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:10.920 You know a lot of people do this. But you 0:09:10.920 --> 0:09:13.640 could argue that the education is better there, right, but 0:09:13.840 --> 0:09:18.360 you ultimately end up with a less diverse group of 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:23.000 people because resources, fiscal resources often kind of follow that 0:09:23.200 --> 0:09:30.199 racial line in this country. So when it comes to DEIH, 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:38.040 when you associate black students with criminality, behavior problems, this, that, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:45.440 and the third. And you have seen what happens with 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:48.640 successful people, how they kind of remove their their students 0:09:48.640 --> 0:09:51.960 from the equation and they're around peers that look like 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:54.679 them and come from the same you know, pool that 0:09:54.720 --> 0:09:59.040 they come from. DEI is sort of a threat to 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:03.360 you there, even if it's just a matter of look, 0:10:03.440 --> 0:10:05.360 I live in a neighborhood where there's not a lot 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:08.960 of black people, and to have a more diverse population 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:13.160 invites more of the criminal elements or the unfavorable elements. 0:10:13.240 --> 0:10:15.920 Right now, I do want to make a point before 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.280 I let you go, que because I know I see you, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:21.040 I see you wanting to get in. I do want 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:27.160 to say that this response to DEI is primarily about education. 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.679 It's actually it's only about education. 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.360 It has nothing to do with what DEI, in my 0:10:33.679 --> 0:10:39.920 estimation was intended to remedy, which is bringing some insight 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:47.840 and creating some opportunities for those in the in. 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.480 The in the workforce. Right. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.480 So to kind of take DEI and say DEI is 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.640 wrong because it is imperfect in this one setting feels 0:10:57.720 --> 0:11:02.000 like a weird argument, because you know that's de I 0:11:02.160 --> 0:11:05.640 was not for school. Schools are based on the population, 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.959 so forth, and so on, right, affirmative action, You could 0:11:09.040 --> 0:11:10.520 argue it so forth and so on, But he's talking 0:11:10.520 --> 0:11:13.240 about DEI here. The other part of this that I 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.640 want to say before you go is that as far 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:24.640 as you know, when it comes to these these outcomes, right, 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:29.360 he says that d I has been around for ten 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:31.720 to fifteen years, and my estimation, d I has been 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:35.360 around considerably less than that. It's been around for about five. Right, 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:42.680 d I has to have time to grow, time to 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:47.280 make mistakes, time to perfective, if indeed, that is what 0:11:47.320 --> 0:11:48.000 we're going for. 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:50.320 And what I look. 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.760 At is the intention here, and he said it himself, 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.200 The intention here is to shape outcomes. 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:56.760 Right. 0:11:56.760 --> 0:11:58.480 The intention is not to clip wings or all this 0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:00.360 other stuff that I believe to be no nonsense. So 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:01.679 we could break all that down. I'm I'll let you 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:03.240 go first, Q, because I could talk this whole thing up. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.840 But if you have an idea and you're rolling it 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:10.880 out on a country wide level and you have mistakes, 0:12:10.880 --> 0:12:14.800 the mistakes might be visible very early on, but you 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.000 don't abandon it. You stay true to the mission, and 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.679 you refine it along the way. The Black people didn't 0:12:20.720 --> 0:12:24.600 automatically get into the position that we're in because somebody 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:26.760 said something and then five years later we were just 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:31.360 like that in perpetuity. No, this has been refined and readdressed, 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:36.840 and legislated and refined again over hundreds of years, right, 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.320 And so I would imagine that it would take some 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.040 refining to get all the kinks worked out. So I'll 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:45.120 let you go before I break this guy down any further. 0:12:45.280 --> 0:12:45.839 Go ahead, you. 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:52.120 He does a really interesting thing here. I enjoy it 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:56.160 when I notice it because it makes me laugh, But 0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:58.480 then I remember that most people don't notice it, and 0:12:58.480 --> 0:13:02.240 then I get very upset. I'm sure that crimes happen 0:13:02.320 --> 0:13:05.240 in this country at the same time that the wind 0:13:05.280 --> 0:13:08.680 is blowing, but a report doesn't come out the next 0:13:08.760 --> 0:13:14.480 day that says wind blowing causes crime. Yep, And there 0:13:14.559 --> 0:13:17.400 is an intentional correlation of information here that it just 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.040 spits back at an audience that wants to receive it 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:24.080 that way. Yes, blaming DEI for these outcomes that have 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.920 nothing to do with it. The biggest problem that we 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.520 have collectively right now is that we've watched the other 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.040 side co op DEI and turn it into a bad word, 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.080 and when they use it the way that they intend, 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:41.640 we end up making an argument against their intended version 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:42.720 of the word instead. 0:13:42.400 --> 0:13:45.000 Of what it was created for. Yes, exactly, I e. 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:50.680 Someone called Jackie Robinson a DEI higher a few weeks ago, 0:13:51.520 --> 0:13:55.240 and we got really upset and argued that he wasn't. 0:13:56.280 --> 0:14:01.240 And I got really upset because he absolutely was. There 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:04.600 was no place for black baseball players at the time, 0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.719 so DEI Initiatives had to create an opportunity for him. 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.320 And then we saw, oh, he's better than everybody else. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:16.360 But DEI the way that it was intended, absolutely created 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:20.360 an opportunity where it didn't exist for Jackie Robinson. But 0:14:20.480 --> 0:14:23.240 because they've co opted DEI and made it a bad word, 0:14:24.160 --> 0:14:28.200 we think because they want to frame it as anti meritocracy, 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:32.920 and we're like, well, Jackie deserved a chance and was better, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.920 so he wasn't a dei higher and then we end 0:14:35.000 --> 0:14:37.880 up having an argument against their meaning of something that 0:14:37.920 --> 0:14:41.560 they took from us, like they keep doing. So it 0:14:41.640 --> 0:14:44.200 was really interesting listening to that, Like I chuckled right, 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:46.560 and I'd love to have been sitting across the table 0:14:46.600 --> 0:14:50.600 waiting for the young man to finish explaining to me 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.800 all these things that he just correlated with no actual causation. 0:14:56.120 --> 0:15:00.480 And you just when it's in that form, you don't 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.840 get to rebuttal you don't get to respond. You have 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:06.840 to receive all of his findings. 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:07.760 At once, and then with. 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.240 The period at the end, and then he turns his 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.680 paper in and he runs away, and the audience that 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:15.360 wants to feel how he feels I have everything that 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:20.960 they need, and then we q ward ramses Jah, Kaija 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.480 and DJ have to just listen to it. And then 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.640 we can't get our lick back because he's gone and 0:15:26.800 --> 0:15:28.880 his side of the room stood up and gave it 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:32.240 a round of applause. So it's quite silly we don't 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:34.680 have enough show to respond to that. 0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:40.720 Well, you're not wrong, because the actual breakdown, like they 0:15:40.760 --> 0:15:42.560 do list little bit of stuff and it creates so 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:50.000 much work for us, right, and it's intellectually dishonest. 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.760 Intellectually dishones Thank you, you make a mistake there that 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:52.520 was on purpose. 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.960 Yep, absolutely. But here's the thing I got call it 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:02.040 five minutes. I'm gonna do my best to give some 0:16:02.320 --> 0:16:05.640 context to some of the things that this person says, 0:16:05.720 --> 0:16:10.280 so that at least you know that there's valid explanations 0:16:10.280 --> 0:16:16.760 for all of this. First off, as I mentioned, what 0:16:16.800 --> 0:16:24.120 we're dealing with is trying to reshape outcomes. So DEI 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.720 is de initiatives, affirmative action initiatives. That is simply one 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.360 thing that can be done to bring everyone where they 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.880 should be. Okay, there are other forms of restorative justice 0:16:37.200 --> 0:16:40.520 that in theory would work in concert with DEI initiatives 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:44.960 that would bring about the systemic changes that we want, 0:16:45.240 --> 0:16:49.200 you know, long term systemic changes. And with that in mind, 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.680 it takes a long time. Doesn't take five years. It 0:16:51.680 --> 0:16:53.760 takes a long time. Things need to be refined and 0:16:53.800 --> 0:16:56.800 we have to be committed as a society to the outcomes. 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:57.120 Right. 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:01.800 And DEI is kind of like a brand inch. It 0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.359 is not the root. You know, if you want to 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:06.520 talk about the root of the problem, we can talk 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.440 about redlining. If you want to talk about the root 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.040 of the problem. We can talk about, you know, the 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:14.280 legacy of Jim Crow. We can talk about the unfair 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.320 dissemination of the GI Bill. We can talk about really 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:20.840 wealth inequality in this country and how black people have 0:17:20.960 --> 0:17:28.600 been robbed and denied they're just due. Even starting at zero, 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:32.080 I'm not even talking forty acres in starting at zero 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.320 and pulling ourselves up as a people from our bootstraps. 0:17:35.760 --> 0:17:37.639 The amount of times we were going to do a 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.760 way black history back about Freedman's Bank and how they 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:43.760 were robbed by you know, white people. You know what 0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:44.200 I'm saying. 0:17:44.520 --> 0:17:46.200 We could talk about any number. 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.200 Of we could talk about Black Wall Street or any 0:17:48.400 --> 0:17:51.400 copycat version of that around the country, where black wealth 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.440 has been created and then through legal or illegal means, 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:57.399 it has just been denied from them. And then we 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:59.720 can talk about how it was the government and the 0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:03.399 people both working to make this happen repeatedly. As I 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:07.919 mentioned redlining, that is a huge one, right, and so 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:12.439 when you look at that, and then you look at 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.600 the way that this country looks at black people, black 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.520 children versus white children. We've had this conversation on the 0:18:18.520 --> 0:18:25.879 show before Q where if a black child misbehaves, his 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.600 behavior is considered criminal and he needs punishment. If a 0:18:29.600 --> 0:18:35.600 white child misbehaves, then that child needs medication and to 0:18:35.680 --> 0:18:37.959 go to a doctor. And you know, there's a different 0:18:38.040 --> 0:18:41.080 view of it, right, And so what this individual doing 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.200 here writing this letter, Matthew Bates, he's kind of adopting 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.720 that mentality where he because I can read through the lines, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:51.159 you know what I mean. We don't want these students 0:18:51.160 --> 0:18:54.080 in the class disrupting the classroom. Okay, okay, fair enough, right, 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:58.160 But when we talk about, okay, let's work on outcomes. 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.680 They're doing or they're attempting at least to do their part. 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:03.119 The schools are right, the schools are attempting to do 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:06.879 their part based on this example. But if the schools 0:19:06.880 --> 0:19:09.840 are underfunded because of the legacy of redlining and the 0:19:09.880 --> 0:19:12.359 legacy of this country, let's just call it what it is, 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.199 then there are underfunded schools with less resources, where the 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:19.760 students don't perform as well, where they are understaffed, where 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:21.680 behavioral problems go undiagnosed. 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:23.240 Where where where where? Right? 0:19:24.359 --> 0:19:27.679 And then and these are valid, These are things that 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.560 actually happen. They start young the same way they do 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.199 with all human beings, but this group doesn't have the 0:19:35.240 --> 0:19:36.560 resources that that group does. 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:37.560 And when you. 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.520 Compare this group to that group only based on the outcomes, 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.399 then you're gonna look at this group like, Okay, they're criminal, 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.240 they just blah blah blah. I don't want them in 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:50.080 the classroom with these other students because we're going to 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:51.919 clip their wings and we're gonna do this. And so 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:57.320 the mentality shift is again it's well, I won't even 0:19:57.320 --> 0:20:00.400 want to call it a mentality shift. The argument is 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:06.560 intellectually dishonest, and it's based on I don't like to 0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:08.680 use the word when I know people are going to 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:13.840 react to it in a way that is that is 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:18.360 like dismissive. But it's racist, you know what I mean? 0:20:18.640 --> 0:20:20.840 And they and a lot of times racist people don't 0:20:20.880 --> 0:20:22.520 know that that's what they're being because they would they 0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:24.560 think to themself like I would never do that. Like 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:27.200 this guy himself says at the end of this writing, 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:29.000 he says, no one cares about the d part of 0:20:29.040 --> 0:20:32.760 DEI like, nobody cares about the diversity. Diversity is fine, right, 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:38.320 That's what he's effectually saying here. But for some people, 0:20:38.359 --> 0:20:42.800 they don't realize how ingrained the racism is, how ingrained 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:44.440 the thinking is. 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:45.879 And I. 0:20:47.359 --> 0:20:49.920 Think that this is the sort of thing that requires, 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:51.960 you know, for people that don't know around the country 0:20:51.960 --> 0:20:54.600 listening to this conversation with MEANQ. For people that don't know, 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:59.200 I implore you to take a look at both sides 0:20:59.240 --> 0:21:02.720 of this conversation, because you know, with UH, with DJ 0:21:02.800 --> 0:21:04.440 and Kaiji on the line, I'm sorry that we didn't 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.320 really get to lean into any more questions here, but 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.240 there are real students who are impacted by this line 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:14.840 of thinking, and they support this line of thinking when 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:18.439 it comes up elsewhere in policy or wherever else, and 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:21.439 then real students are affected by it. And these are 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.280 students that have resources right now and they're under attack. 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:25.040 Now. 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.119 Before we before we get to the next part, do 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.400 us a favor, YouTube drop, any social media, any website, 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:33.520 anything like that that people can do to UH to 0:21:33.560 --> 0:21:36.280 support you, DJ, you first, and we got like ten seconds, 0:21:36.320 --> 0:21:37.160 so just real quick. 0:21:38.440 --> 0:21:41.200 Yeah, So there's two organizations that I want to plug. 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:46.000 It's the you of A ASA page. It's aa S 0:21:46.040 --> 0:21:49.920 a underscore u of A, and the Black Student Union. 0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.080 You have a underscore Black Student Union are lower case 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:54.720 one one word. 0:21:57.480 --> 0:22:02.399 I would say going through those look going through those 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:05.720 Instagram tags as well to support our w g R, 0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:09.639 c APASA NASA. Those are other cultural centers on this 0:22:09.680 --> 0:22:13.480 campus are we infected as well as like our African studies, 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:15.640 but you can find all of them through Africas. 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.800 Okay, fantastic and we're gonna leave it right here, So 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:23.040 thank you for tuning into this episode of Civic Cipher. 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.480 Please, you know, help us out. 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:28.360