1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to Hod of Money. I'm Joel I Matt and 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: today we're talking about why financial pessimism will eat you alive. 3 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: So we've talked about fear factor in some of those 4 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 2: different shows here on the podcast before, Joel, have you 5 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:36,199 Speaker 2: ever eaten anything alive? I guess like the quintessential example 6 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 2: I'm thinking of is like swallowing a goldfish at some 7 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,519 Speaker 2: trashy bar that's never did it that kind of thing. 8 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: Or maybe I'm thinking of like the worm in the 9 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: bottom of a like tequila shot or something like that. No, 10 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 2: never done. 11 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: Any of that stuff. Can't say that I have. Maybe 12 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,920 Speaker 1: I haven't lived in adventurous lives. Maybe that's what that 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:54,840 Speaker 1: I think that there's a lot more to an adventurous 14 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: life than eating things that are or swallowing things that 15 00:00:56,600 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: are still alive. But we are going to talk about 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: financial pessimism. Why we think that more folks need a 17 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,720 Speaker 1: little injection of financial optimism sort of like a like 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: a quarter zone shot to get you through the game. 19 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:10,440 Speaker 1: And it really does, like its shockingly makes it a 20 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 1: massive difference. And I think you know, what we want 21 00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:16,399 Speaker 1: to talk about is an overwhelming tide of pessimism that 22 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: it feels like our country has experienced is continuing to experience, 23 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:21,920 Speaker 1: and kind of push back on that because it's going 24 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 1: to make a difference not just to like in how 25 00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:26,320 Speaker 1: you feel and how you move through life, but it's 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 1: going to make a difference when it comes to your 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 1: money too. 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: It's going to impact your wallet as well. Yeah, real quick, 29 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 2: before we move on to the show, before we get 30 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,320 Speaker 2: to the beer that we're gonna enjoy. During this episode, 31 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:37,200 Speaker 2: we were just talking and I don't know how we 32 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: stumbled upon this, but this is the kind of thing 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 2: we do. We're talking about different financial products and whatnot, 34 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: but we got to thinking about Venmo cash app, the 35 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: different financial apps on your phone, and we're like, wait 36 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,360 Speaker 2: a minute, are those apps FDIC ensured Because more and 37 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: more folks they're using those accounts as if they were 38 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: checking accounts. And we quickly looked it up and guess 39 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: what they are not FDIC and sure, So just a 40 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 2: quick tip, do not store excess money within those apps. 41 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: Preferably immediately deposit that money into your account, work with 42 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 2: withdrawal it initiate that withdrawal from the account. That way, 43 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: you don't have that money just sitting there. 44 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,320 Speaker 1: I don't think Venmo has the ability lets you have 45 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,399 Speaker 1: the ability to move funds right when you get them 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: without manually doing it. Whereas cash app, I have like 47 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: a little toggle in the back and really and I can. 48 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: Literally is there an automatic sweep there's. 49 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: An automatic sweep shop. I know that, So I have 50 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:33,040 Speaker 1: used that just to prevent any money from sitting there 51 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:34,200 Speaker 1: in Well, you. 52 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:35,520 Speaker 2: Want to get that money out. You want to get 53 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: that money into your highield savings accounts. Why you're earning 54 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 2: that real interest that's right, which we can say these 55 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:42,919 Speaker 2: days because they are paying a real interest interest rate. 56 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: Well, and that's why your money is protected too, because 57 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,800 Speaker 1: it's just not protected in these accounts. One from scammers. 58 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: There's I get all sorts of random requests, like once 59 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 1: a month, it seems like somebody's straightened. 60 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,280 Speaker 2: Out the grocery store, send one hundred bucks. 61 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,000 Speaker 1: Jimmy two shoes, this requesting like five hundred dollars. I'm like, 62 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: what is who is this person? And that kind of 63 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,200 Speaker 1: stuff happens all all the time. You don't want to 64 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,519 Speaker 1: just out of the goodness of your heart donate to 65 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: I think about it's on Jimmy two shoes, and I 66 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 1: think I like to give in different ways. But and 67 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:10,600 Speaker 1: maybe Jimmy two shoes needs another pair. 68 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:12,959 Speaker 2: I don't know, but like, this is the kind of 69 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 2: thing Tomorrow he'll be Jimmy three shoes. 70 00:03:16,000 --> 00:03:17,839 Speaker 1: This is the kind of thing most people don't think about, though, 71 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 1: is like is my money in these apps safe? 72 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,440 Speaker 2: And the truth is that, yeah, we've never talked about 73 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:24,120 Speaker 2: that on the show before. 74 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: Venmo and cash app have not been great when somebody 75 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:28,560 Speaker 1: does get scammed about helping them get their money back. 76 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 1: And at the same time, since the money isn't FDIC 77 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:33,320 Speaker 1: insured and it's not earning anything, if they were to 78 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: go under, yeah, you out that money. Use those apps 79 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: to facilitate transactions, to facilitate paying a friend or family 80 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: member for something, but don't use it as a place 81 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: to store money. Make sure you're moving the money out 82 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: in that you're not keeping a balance basically. 83 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: I will say though that if there are any if 84 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 2: you have a check card, basically if you have an 85 00:03:50,760 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: account that's associated with either Venmo or cash app, so 86 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 2: like cash up, they have like the cash card and 87 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: that is an FDIC insured bank has partnered with cash App, 88 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 2: And so you might be thinking, oh no, no, no, I 89 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: definitely have seen FDIC insured before. Well, that's money that 90 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: is specifically insured via that bank. But for I think 91 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: the vast majority of folks out there who are just 92 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 2: using the app, they haven't gone down the rabbit trail 93 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: of expanding the cash app offerings or the venmo offerings, 94 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 2: then your money is not FDIC insured. Yeah, yeah, just 95 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 2: keep keep that in mind. Word of the wise, Yeah 96 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 2: for sure. All right. 97 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: Let's let's mention the beer we're having on this episode. 98 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: This is called Stress Dissolver. Let's hope it works its 99 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: magic by Common Space Brewing. I feel better already, Yeah, 100 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: feel so relaxed. And this friend of the show five 101 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: am Joel. He donated these beers. This is a Californian 102 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 1: brewery to us, so big thanks to our buddy kind. 103 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:44,200 Speaker 2: Of Hawthorne, California, so BlackBerry sour beer. So I think 104 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,039 Speaker 2: he picked it up a Trader Joe's out there. What 105 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:50,400 Speaker 2: may've got good beersder Joe's forget Yeah, I remember buying Scotch 106 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: at a Trader Joe's when Kate and I last time 107 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 2: her and I went out to Yosemite. We landed. I 108 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:57,599 Speaker 2: forget exactly what city we were in, but walked in there, 109 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: I saw some off label scotch and I thought to myself, 110 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 2: that's something I want to enjoy at the end of 111 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: a long day hiking. Yeah, but uh yeah, very cool. 112 00:05:05,560 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 2: Thank you Joel for donating this one to the show. 113 00:05:07,839 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: And we can't get liquor in grocery stores here in Georgia, 114 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 1: but they do it in California. 115 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: It's legal there. 116 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: So but Matt, let's get onto the subject of let's 117 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,000 Speaker 1: talk about financial pessimism and how can mess people up. 118 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: And for some reason this topic made me think of 119 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: ice baths. They're so hot right now. Oh yeah, not 120 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 1: really hot, but they're you know, people like them. 121 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:29,919 Speaker 2: Dad humor. But I've never done one, idiot speaking of 122 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 2: like things. 123 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: We haven't done. Haven't eaten the live animal. I haven't 124 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: taken done one of these ice baths. I'm kind of scared. 125 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: But you know, there are lots of folks purposely jumping 126 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: in freezing pools of water every day. There's some guy, 127 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: your Jim, didn't you say he's spending twenty dollars. 128 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 2: He yeah, he came on ice twenty dollars. He does well, 129 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: he does two ice baths every day. Evidently, so and 130 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 2: you know, there's supposed to be beneficial reasons to doing it, 131 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 2: like it's supposed to help with inflammation, with muscle recovery. Sure, 132 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 2: if you're really a fitness fanatic, if you want to 133 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: really get nerdy about it. It activates brown fat. I've 134 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 2: I learned this listening to I don't even know what 135 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,040 Speaker 2: that is Huberman Lab. It's like the good, good kind 136 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: of fat. Okay, it activates it, well, at least a 137 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 2: better higher metabolic health. Okay. 138 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: I've heard it elevate your mood stuff like that, which 139 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:17,280 Speaker 1: which is cool. Twenty bucks a day on ice sounds extreme, 140 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 1: that's insane, but and I think a lot interestingly enough, 141 00:06:20,360 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 1: I don't know about our listeners, but if someone threw 142 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 1: me in a freezing cold pool of water, I'd be pissed, Like, 143 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: I would not be happy. 144 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 2: I'd be like, what do you do? Like? 145 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: But some people choose to do this very thing on purpose, 146 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: and I think so much of why has to do 147 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: with the person's outlook, right, because like you said, the 148 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: ice bath is really is largely done for health benefits. 149 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: And but most of us, including myself, prefer warm showers, 150 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: hot showers, sir, because we're not necessarily thinking about the 151 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 1: health benefits. We're thinking about how we can be most comfortable, 152 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: and so I think a simple shift of perspective can 153 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: drastically change how it is that we view an activity 154 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: and whether or not we want to participate or not. 155 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,720 Speaker 1: And similarly, when you approach the world from a pessimistic 156 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:00,280 Speaker 1: point of view, it has a negative impact on how 157 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: we do so many things, including how. 158 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,039 Speaker 2: We handle our money. That's true. Yeah, So actually just 159 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: last night, dude, I hopped in the shower, and I 160 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: assumed that one of my girls was getting out of 161 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 2: her shower at right about the same time. But no, 162 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 2: she kept that hot water running the entire time. She 163 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 2: took like a twenty twenty five minute shower. Meaning they're 164 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 2: not even teenagers yet. But oh, oh my gosh, but 165 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 2: they're already there. Might have to install a second water 166 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 2: here at the time, I've got four teenagers all showering. 167 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 2: But what this means, though, is I got to rinse 168 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 2: off in some frigid water. Understandably, I was annoyed, but 169 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: if I had had a different perspective, I could have 170 00:07:34,920 --> 00:07:37,080 Speaker 2: even embraced the cold. It would have been something I 171 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: was looking forward to. It's like I'm not even paying 172 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 2: twenty dollars in order to take this cold shower right, 173 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: I simply needed a different point of view. And instead 174 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 2: of looking at history and taking an encouraging note of 175 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,240 Speaker 2: optimism from our past, it seems that a like a 176 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,360 Speaker 2: malaise of pessimism is just keeping folks from taking the 177 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:57,480 Speaker 2: most basic money moves that could benefit their future. And 178 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: you know, it's not that they don't know what it 179 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: is that they should be doing right like, it is 180 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 2: not necessarily a math problem. Instead, it's an outlook problem. 181 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 2: Too much pessimism is gonna throw sand into the gears. 182 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 2: It's going to inhibit your financial progress. And so if 183 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:15,760 Speaker 2: you feel like defeat is eminent, if you don't believe 184 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: that you can make progress, well you're gonna be bound 185 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: to lose. And hopefully this episode can change your perspective. 186 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you gotta have that kind of small but 187 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 1: mighty perspective. And it's just so easy to get lost 188 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:31,720 Speaker 1: in a cycle of pessimism. I think, especially today and 189 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: as a nation, like you said, we're in this malaise 190 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,319 Speaker 1: of pessimism. I like the way you put it. It 191 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:38,520 Speaker 1: seems like we're more pessimistic now. Than ever before, and 192 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 1: I think stats actually bear that out. New statistics reveal 193 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: that a record sixty nine percent of Americans hold negative 194 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: views about the current and future state of economy. So 195 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: they say, hey, you know what, it sucks now, it's 196 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: gonna suck for forever. Like that is basically what people 197 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 1: are saying. And that's seven out of ten people who 198 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: basically have that take. And let's be honest, I mean, 199 00:08:57,240 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: bad stuff happens with astonishing regularity. So we're not here 200 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,439 Speaker 1: to be ahead in the sand sort of believe everything 201 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: is going to be great. The truth is, if you 202 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 1: want to bathe in the sadness, it's never been easier 203 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 1: because the twenty four seven news cycle just gives us 204 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:16,480 Speaker 1: something to be upset about no matter what. And it 205 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 1: makes me think of the recent Wall Street Journal poll 206 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: Matt which found that only twenty one percent of Americans 207 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:22,440 Speaker 1: think that their kids are going to be better off 208 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: than they are. And again, that's more pessimism. That's eight 209 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 1: out of ten people saying, my kids don't have a 210 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 1: shot at a better life than I've got. Yet we're 211 00:09:32,760 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: living in the greatest age of abundance the world has 212 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 1: ever known. The progress we've made in the past two 213 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: hundred years and twenty years specifically is astounding. Yet we 214 00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: managed to tell ourselves this story, this doom and gloom 215 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: sort of despair story, with those clear signs of progress 216 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: all around us. It makes me think, and I know 217 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 1: I probably shouldn't reference him because he kind of got 218 00:09:50,000 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 1: canceled or whatever, But Louis c K. Do you remember 219 00:09:52,160 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: his airplane bit. He told it on like a late 220 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: night show or something, and it was just the best thing. 221 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 2: Ever where he because we're complaining about Wi Fi, why 222 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 2: find out working? 223 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:02,319 Speaker 1: And this is like ten years ago when that was 224 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 1: still like a novel concept that you have that you 225 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 1: could actually get Internet on an airplane, And he's like, 226 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: we're in a metal tube hurtling through the sky, like 227 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: it's kind of incredible. And so it's amazing. You can 228 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: either be the person on the airplane being like, what 229 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 1: isn't the Wi Fi work? 230 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 2: This sucks? 231 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: Or you can be like, I'm in a modern marble. 232 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: It's amazing how safe airplanes are, how they fly me 233 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 1: at five hundred hurdled me through the air at five 234 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:27,240 Speaker 1: hundred miles an hour to my destination, and I can 235 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:29,720 Speaker 1: go places I never could have gone before for cheaper 236 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 1: than ever before. So much of how you view that 237 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,160 Speaker 1: that trip, that experience depends on your outlook. 238 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:38,920 Speaker 2: Is that how fast airplanes go? By the way, I 239 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 2: think so, I think they're like four to fifty. So 240 00:10:41,080 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 2: as you said that, I was like, I have no 241 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,560 Speaker 2: idea how fast airplanes got. I think it's like four 242 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 2: hundred five hundred miles an hour. What's mock like? Mock one? 243 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: What is is that a thousand? I don't know. For 244 00:10:48,720 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: two thousands, I'm not sure. Okay, but okay, so you 245 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 2: mentioned that, say a thousand, You're right, I think it's 246 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:56,160 Speaker 2: a thousand. H I said two thousand because I'm thinking 247 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:58,520 Speaker 2: of two thousand pounds within a ton. Well what is he? 248 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: What did you reach in the latest topic on like 249 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 2: nine or something? Then he passes out. Yeah, I don't know, 250 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 2: but I wanted to mention you brought up that Wall 251 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 2: Street Journal poll, but there are some other elements in 252 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 2: that poll that reveal that basically that we value money 253 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 2: more highly than other values that were more traditionally held 254 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: in high esteem. Talking about values like our country, our family, community, children, 255 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:23,880 Speaker 2: or religion as well. But not only are our priorities 256 00:11:23,880 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 2: out of whack. But honestly, we think that pessimism it's 257 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: it's partly driving it, but it's also being exacerbated by 258 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 2: that same set of beliefs. It's almost as if our 259 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: society wide pessimism is swirling out of control and then 260 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: it's creating more of the same. It's it's a doom, 261 00:11:38,640 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: it's reinforcing itself. It's like a turbo chargedness of pessimism. 262 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: So it kind of makes me think, like what came first, 263 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 2: the chicken or the egg, right, because you could make 264 00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 2: a pretty good argument that even the deprioritization of values 265 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 2: like your family or community and religion, that these are 266 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 2: actually the sources perhaps of the heightened levels of pessimism 267 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 2: that we've seen. Yeah, it makes me think of our 268 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: recent conversation with Seamost doles Off and how he talked 269 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: about that's why we put so much value in our careers. 270 00:12:09,800 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 2: Now we've lost basically a sense of value and meaning 271 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 2: in some of these other places where we traditionally derived them. Absolutely, 272 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: so the career is the end all, be all, and 273 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,760 Speaker 2: so not only is it bringing home the bacon, but 274 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 2: it also informs our self worth and that is not 275 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 2: a healthy place to be in when most of your 276 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 2: feelings of self worth come from your job, and then 277 00:12:29,000 --> 00:12:30,720 Speaker 2: when you skip out on community and family, it's no 278 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 2: surprise that you end up with higher levels of loneliness too. 279 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: Because back in twenty eighteen, twenty two percent of all 280 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 2: adults said that they always or often feel lonely or isolated. 281 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 2: That was before COVID, that was in twenty eighteen. Crazy. 282 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: So my guess is those numbers have gotten worse, maybe doubled. 283 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: I don't know. 284 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: This is just a guess, but a lack of social 285 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: cohesion is directly responsible for some of the downar vibes 286 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,360 Speaker 1: that we might be feeling. And funnily enough, new stats 287 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:57,280 Speaker 1: have just come out about the Americans who consider themselves 288 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: among the happiest. They literally, in response to survey, not 289 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 1: only do they check the happy checkbox, they say no, no, no, 290 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:07,480 Speaker 1: I am very happy. And it turns out to it 291 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,079 Speaker 1: has dropped, but there still is a certain there's this 292 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 1: contingent of folks, and there have been articles written about 293 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 1: like what can we learn from these people who are 294 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: very happy? 295 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 2: Well, a lot of. 296 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,000 Speaker 1: Them say that a strong marriage, being religious, a solid 297 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 1: fitness regimen are the main reasons why and a lot 298 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: of these folks were actually older adults, interestingly enough, but 299 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: that was just kind of fascinating to me, Like that 300 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 1: these things that we're getting away from as a culture 301 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: that have traditionally brought happiness and have made us look 302 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:34,000 Speaker 1: on the bright side, I think a little more frequently 303 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: the happiest people still retain belief and attachment to those things. 304 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So I think those are a number of 305 00:13:40,960 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 2: the factors that have led to this overall pessimism, and 306 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: I think media and honestly technology are partly to blame 307 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: as well. And unfortunately news outlets, they've been incentivized to 308 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:54,120 Speaker 2: cover the stories that guess what, it's the stories that 309 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 2: get us fired up, that make us mad. Well, that's 310 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: what social media amplifies too. Yeah, yeah, to write the 311 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,240 Speaker 2: headlines that are going to generate the most clicks. There's 312 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 2: a reason you never see the headline like local family 313 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:09,200 Speaker 2: enjoys a nice dinner together an outdoor play session afterwards, 314 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 2: Like that is not No one cares about that wompomp 315 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 2: zero clicks. That is not going to go viral, and 316 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: instead it's the polarizing tweets when it comes to traditional media. 317 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 2: But like you said, social media as well. Right, and honestly, 318 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:23,640 Speaker 2: aside from the most divisive content that we can find 319 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,480 Speaker 2: on social media, it's I think the slow drip that 320 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 2: we are exposing ourselves to of, just like the images 321 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 2: the video that is undoubtedly leading to dissatisfaction in our 322 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: own lives. Data from the CDC, they show that the 323 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 2: number of teenagers over the last decade with clinical levels 324 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: of depression has doubled. And there's research from doctor Jane 325 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 2: I think it's Twinkie. We actually mentioned one of her 326 00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 2: articles a few weeks ago on a Friday flight. She 327 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 2: was she dug into the data on millennials and how 328 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 2: well they're actually doing compared to just the stereotype of 329 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: what millennials are often. 330 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: A pessimistic stereotype, the like that they're often when the 331 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: data shows more optimistic like results in reality. Yeah, yeah, 332 00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:06,320 Speaker 1: but she's done a lot of research on different generations, 333 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 1: but she highlights that one of the ways that this 334 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: depression has manifested itself is the pessimism, and this is 335 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: especially evident among gen z. She noted that that's one 336 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: of the it's one of the biggest shifts, it's one 337 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,680 Speaker 1: of the biggest differences that she found when she dug 338 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: through lots and lots of research between millennials and gen 339 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: z is the outlook on life and the reality is 340 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: that everything that we're experiencing, the more pessimism that we're feeling, 341 00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: it infiltrates every area of our lives and it really 342 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: does impact our finances. And so that's what we really 343 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,520 Speaker 1: want to get into. That's the heart of the show 344 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: for today. I think we just really wanted to set 345 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: it up really well because there is It's not we're 346 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: not finding some straw man a pessimism range supreme in 347 00:15:49,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: our culture. 348 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 2: It truly is a real problem. But we're also not 349 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 2: going to leave you in the lurch, right. I feel 350 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,360 Speaker 2: like we've taken people on this journey and we're like 351 00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 2: at the bottom of the right, and we're not going 352 00:15:57,920 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 2: to like open the door and kick you out and 353 00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: make you a wall to the top. Right, We're gonna 354 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 2: help you to get to the top. 355 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,640 Speaker 1: But it really is gonna is gonna mess with your 356 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: money if you retain too much pessimism. How it does 357 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: ruin or how it can lead to ruin for your finances. 358 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,240 Speaker 1: Will discuss more on that right after this. 359 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: All right, we are back, we're talking about how financial 360 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 2: pessimism will wreck you, and all that being said, we 361 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 2: just kind of talked through all the different ways that 362 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:32,640 Speaker 2: we are not fans of pessimism. 363 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: Check your pessimist itself before you wreck your pessimistic self. 364 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: But that being said, some pessimism is actually necessary. So 365 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: we're gonna make a case for moderate doses of pessimism. 366 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 2: You don't want to overdo it because it can lead 367 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 2: to lots of down slides like we just talked about. 368 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 2: But one of my favorite money quotes comes from friend 369 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,000 Speaker 2: of the show, Morgan Housel, and he says, to save 370 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:58,600 Speaker 2: like a pessimist, but invest like an optimist. And the 371 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 2: reality is that we save money because bad things they 372 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 2: can and they do happen in life. This is the 373 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 2: reason that living paycheck to paycheck is such a precarious 374 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: position to find yourself in, right, Like, basically you've got 375 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 2: zero financial margin. Our emergency funds are necessary because they 376 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 2: act essentially as like these financial shock absorbers, right Like 377 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 2: they cushion and they smooth out the ride as we 378 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,960 Speaker 2: are pursuing our financial goals. And ultimately, that small injection 379 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 2: of pessimism is actually going to allow us to be 380 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 2: optimistic over the long run, because those savings are going 381 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 2: to ensure that we don't completely derail ourselves, that we 382 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:37,240 Speaker 2: don't completely wreck ourselves goal ignoring reality where we to 383 00:17:37,400 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 2: wear rose colored glasses that could lead to financial ruin, 384 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,120 Speaker 2: and that's what we're trying to avoid here today. Yeah, 385 00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 2: I love that balance, right, because I think optimism is 386 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 2: the greater need, especially considering kind of what we're dealing 387 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 2: with as a culture and as Americans with just too 388 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,120 Speaker 2: much pessimism. Just we're inundated with it. It's true, but it's 389 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 2: also important to mention that like no pessimism and being 390 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 2: optimistic at every turn and potentially not being realistic in 391 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:07,679 Speaker 2: terms of potential downsize, potential emergencies that could befall you, 392 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 2: that would just be unwise, that would be not not 393 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 2: prudence when it comes to your finances. So and theoretically, 394 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,520 Speaker 2: I think you might assume that pessimists would have lots 395 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 2: of money sitting in cash in a savings account that 396 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 2: they would say, Man, I'm nervous to invest, but at 397 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 2: least what I'm gonna do because a rainy day thing 398 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,560 Speaker 2: could happen and it could mess me up. I'm gonna 399 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 2: make sure I have more cash in my reserves. That 400 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:31,480 Speaker 2: is what you would assume a pessimist would do, But 401 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,080 Speaker 2: the reality doesn't play out this way either. Data shows 402 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 2: that while nearly two thirds of optimists have started an 403 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: emergency fund, less than half of pessimists have one. That's crazy. 404 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, even though we should be saving like pessimists 405 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,479 Speaker 1: because unforeseen expenses always crop up, optimistic people actually end 406 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: up saving money at a higher clip. And practically speaking, Matt, 407 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,080 Speaker 1: this is why Money Year Number one is to set 408 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: enough money aside for a basic emergency fund, which we 409 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,200 Speaker 1: have named as just it's hard to come up with 410 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: a one size fits all figure, but we have said 411 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: twenty four hundred and sixty seven dollars is a great 412 00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 1: initial amount for people to strive to have in that 413 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:09,720 Speaker 1: emergency fund before they move on to any other money gear. 414 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: And then we want you to put that money aside 415 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: and don't touch it for anything other than a true emergency, 416 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,479 Speaker 1: which is like an unplanned doctor's visit that's necessary. If 417 00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: your AC stops working, you got to replace the compressor, 418 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: an insurance deductible that I am dealing with right now. 419 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:25,879 Speaker 1: So these are the kind of things that that emergency 420 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:27,119 Speaker 1: savings is really meant for. 421 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, you've had a first hand account of the 422 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 2: need to use your emergency recently, and you know, unfortunately, 423 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:35,479 Speaker 2: And a pessimist would say, gosh, darn it, like that 424 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,080 Speaker 2: that sucks that. 425 00:19:36,119 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: I'm the optimist would say, that's what the emergency funds 426 00:19:38,840 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: are for. 427 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 2: I'm glad I have it. Absolutely. So that's the impact 428 00:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,280 Speaker 2: of being optimistic that it can have on your savings. 429 00:19:46,520 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 2: But then that second part of Morganhusel's advice is invest 430 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,159 Speaker 2: like an optimist, because let's just be honest. If it 431 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 2: seems like it's going to be all doom and gloom, right, 432 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 2: if the future does not look bright, why would you 433 00:19:58,119 --> 00:19:59,400 Speaker 2: actually invest your money. 434 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:01,640 Speaker 1: If AI is going to run everything and we're actually 435 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,560 Speaker 1: gonna like, I don't know, I saw if sky nests 436 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 1: about to take over. Yeah, if it's been the point. 437 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: What was that Joaquin Phoenix movie? 438 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 2: Was it her or she? Something like that? Oh, he 439 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:10,960 Speaker 2: never watched it? Hates the AI. 440 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 1: Basicallyson's voice, Yah is the age. I mean, if that's 441 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 1: our collective future, then we should all just stop investing 442 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 1: now and unplug from the matrix. 443 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:20,400 Speaker 2: No, it's true, like, if you truly believe that things 444 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 2: are going to be worse in the future, then you 445 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: really should just take your cash and don't even stick 446 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 2: it in the bank because of course those could fail 447 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: as well, and we actually have seen a couple of 448 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 2: those fail recently. But don't put it stick your money 449 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 2: with a bank, stick it under your mattress, right like 450 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 2: barry in your backyard. Actually, money are like cash. It 451 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 2: could ard, it could could degrade, and so make sure 452 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,640 Speaker 2: go ahead and make it gold while you're at it, right, 453 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: Because if you're too pessimistic, like you, definitely wouldn't consider 454 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,360 Speaker 2: investing in companies who are going to take your money. 455 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:49,879 Speaker 2: They're going to use it to innovate. They would develop 456 00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 2: new products and services, make the world a better place. No, no, no, no, 457 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:55,960 Speaker 2: that's not gonna happen. If you're taking the pessimistic point 458 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 2: of view, we might not even be around to see 459 00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 2: it because World War three might be around the corner. 460 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: So it just doesn't it doesn't make sense. It makes 461 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 2: me realize just how skilled we've become at hedonic adaptation 462 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 2: and the age we live in, and just the technological 463 00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 2: advances that we expose ourselves to. Like literally, I feel 464 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:15,960 Speaker 2: like it's on a daily basis that there's something in 465 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: the news where she's like, oh, this was able to 466 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 2: be achieved. Yeah, oh, and we're not impressed by it anymore, 467 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 2: Like we are constantly just like, okay, it's just the 468 00:21:23,840 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 2: new normal, even though it's like James Webb telescope pictures. 469 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:28,280 Speaker 2: It's cool for a day or two, I know, but 470 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 2: then we quickly move on and that's just yesterday's news. 471 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:34,639 Speaker 2: And there's something about just the speed at which technology 472 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 2: advances today that I think has caused us to be 473 00:21:37,760 --> 00:21:40,399 Speaker 2: able to move on so quickly. We're just no longer 474 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 2: excited by anything that we come across. Jonathan Height, he's 475 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:48,400 Speaker 2: a researcher, social researcher, social scientist. And you brought something 476 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 2: up to me, like you mentioned how he was talking 477 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 2: about how like we lack awe yes in our world today, right, 478 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 2: And he says something like awe is like a reset 479 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,879 Speaker 2: button habit. It pulls us out of ourselves and in 480 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 2: a way, it's almost as if there's nothing that awes 481 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: us anymore, Like nothing is impressive. And when you're not excited, 482 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 2: when you're not impressed by anything, well why would you 483 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 2: invest for the future? Because it's all just ho hum 484 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,160 Speaker 2: and there's nothing that is worth kind of getting all excited. 485 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,159 Speaker 1: It's illustrated by the fact that we use awesome to 486 00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: define everything, and it's like, because we don't really find 487 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,200 Speaker 1: anything to be truly awesome anymore, and so it's awesome, dude. 488 00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: And because of that, I think that language it means something, 489 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:26,639 Speaker 1: and it shows that we've kind of lost our capacity 490 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 1: to feel that awe. 491 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,080 Speaker 2: And I do think this, I think that is truly 492 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 2: awe inspiring. 493 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of the problem. But when 494 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: you think about it logically, mat I joked about World 495 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:37,879 Speaker 1: War three, but it's actually it's kind of hard to 496 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: imagine worst scenarios than what we've already lived through in 497 00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,360 Speaker 1: the world over the decades, in the centuries. I think 498 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: back to Genghis Khan, right, like that was a crazy 499 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: time in human history when you compare what was happening then. 500 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:53,439 Speaker 1: And I'm not like some history buff that knows all 501 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:55,400 Speaker 1: about it, but like it seems like a tumultuous time 502 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,280 Speaker 1: for a lot of people on the Asian continent, and 503 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,600 Speaker 1: like we've had wars, pandemic world wars, right, depressions, yet 504 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 1: human progress has been unrelenting. And when we're talking about. 505 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: Around in the metal tube, yes, what four hundred and 506 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:08,760 Speaker 2: fifty miles per hour? 507 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: I know you have, like the world, all the information 508 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,200 Speaker 1: in the history of the world, almost in the palm 509 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 1: of your hand, in your pocket. There's just so much 510 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: that's happened, really in the past couple decades that has 511 00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: changed our lives for the better, as long as we 512 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: can siphon off our attention long enough to not get 513 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,400 Speaker 1: drawn into far right. And when we're talking about optimism 514 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,119 Speaker 1: in investing, we're not talking about being naive, right, investing 515 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: in the latest random crypto coin because you're hoping it's 516 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: going to go to the moon. That is an entirely 517 00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 1: different thing. You, of course, want to thoroughly consider the 518 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:41,280 Speaker 1: pros and the cons of any potential investment you might make. 519 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 1: You need to understand that you're risking the loss of 520 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 1: capital when you invest money in the stock market or 521 00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: in any potential investment in real estate, right, Like, there's 522 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,520 Speaker 1: no guarantee that real estate markets go up continue to 523 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 1: go up the same way they have been. But yeah, 524 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: you want to have optimism though that the US and 525 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 1: world economies are going to continue to create and solve 526 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: problems generating wealth for those companies and for the folks 527 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:08,000 Speaker 1: like you and I who invest in them. 528 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,919 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I think we need to be focusing on 529 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:14,200 Speaker 2: the upside potential that is unleashed or that's unlocked by 530 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: our ability to invest for the future. I want to 531 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 2: share an interesting quote from chess Grand Champion Magnus Carlson. 532 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,080 Speaker 2: This is kind of a long one, so i'll the 533 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: emphasize the parts that are important, I think, but he 534 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 2: said that it's always better to be overly confident than pessimistic. 535 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: I realized sometimes after games that I was actually way 536 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 2: too confident. I was way too optimistic. But if you're 537 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 2: not optimistic, if you're not looking for your chances, well 538 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 2: you're going to miss opportunities. And you know, I think 539 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:42,959 Speaker 2: there are plenty of players in history who have been 540 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,679 Speaker 2: immensely talented, but they're just too pessimistic. They see this 541 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 2: is the part that stood out to me. They see 542 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 2: too many dangers that are not there, and so they 543 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:55,080 Speaker 2: cannot perform at a very high level. Wow, dude, this 544 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:57,440 Speaker 2: is such a great quote. I think for someone specifically 545 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:00,360 Speaker 2: out there who's listening and maybe they're afraid, or maybe 546 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,840 Speaker 2: they're hesitant to actually invest their money, and perhaps they're 547 00:25:03,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: just sitting on a large amount of cash. We're not 548 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 2: saying that bad things don't happen, because they do. But 549 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,639 Speaker 2: if you are so preoccupied with prepping for every single 550 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,639 Speaker 2: potential negative outcome where you're going to miss your chance 551 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,639 Speaker 2: to seriously grow your net worth by investing your money, 552 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 2: it makes me think. We've had questions to the show 553 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 2: before about folks asking about some very niche insurance products 554 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,119 Speaker 2: and like cancer insurance is what you want, yeah, or 555 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 2: pet insurance. And it's not that we think that you 556 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,240 Speaker 2: shouldn't love your dog, or that you shouldn't spend money 557 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 2: on your cat or something like that. But you can't. 558 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: Ensure definitely not in your journal though, or you shouldn't ensure. 559 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: I guess you can, like cause there are crazy insurance 560 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: products out there, but to a certain extent, you have 561 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: to assume some of those risks there. Truly isn't a 562 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:49,520 Speaker 1: way to eliminate all risk from your life. It's just 563 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,080 Speaker 1: it's a part of living life. Yeah, And so we 564 00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: have to be wise about which ones we take on 565 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,639 Speaker 1: ourselves and which ones we do ensure. Like my home 566 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:57,520 Speaker 1: glad I had insurance on that right, because that is 567 00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: one of those things where I couldn't replace it on 568 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 1: my own. A laptop that's a different story, a gurbil 569 00:26:02,119 --> 00:26:04,679 Speaker 1: that's a different story. And even pet insurance like running 570 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,920 Speaker 1: the numbers, figuring that out is important. But for a 571 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: lot of people you can go bankrupt insuring yourself. I 572 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: think right like, there are so many insurance products out 573 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 1: there for every potential niche situation. You could insure yourself 574 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: to the hilt, and that would be I think, almost 575 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: like the pessimistic way of going about things. The realistic 576 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,200 Speaker 1: with a bent towards optimism, thing to do would be 577 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,920 Speaker 1: to ensure the things that you need insured and then 578 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: self ensure the rest of the way having that money 579 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: in the bank. But I think that's a good point. 580 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: And in addition to twenty nineteen study, Matt found that 581 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: optimists are more likely to make financial progress because they 582 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: can more easily see the upside of taking action. And 583 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:45,479 Speaker 1: that's one of the downsides of being overly pessimistic, because 584 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 1: even though you might have the right information, you fail 585 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,359 Speaker 1: to take action because you doubt that it's going to 586 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: make much of a difference. You understand, maybe the power 587 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:55,919 Speaker 1: of compounding but when you're too pessimistic, you envision a 588 00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: world where the most expected outcome of growth and progress 589 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,360 Speaker 1: don't actually materialize, and so you end up missing out. 590 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I almost think that in this case, this 591 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,800 Speaker 2: is an instance where a lack of imagination, a lack 592 00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:10,120 Speaker 2: of understanding what the potentials might be down the road, 593 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,320 Speaker 2: is going to come back to bite you in them. Yeah, 594 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 2: I think we need to be able to just think 595 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 2: more creatively and not be locked into sort of like 596 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,760 Speaker 2: a scarcity mindset where it's just like whatever it is 597 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,399 Speaker 2: that you see right now in the present time, that 598 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,639 Speaker 2: doesn't necessarily mean that like that is where things end. 599 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,320 Speaker 2: Like things are going to continue to expand, and there 600 00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,480 Speaker 2: are going to be innovations and new products and the 601 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:34,040 Speaker 2: new ways of solving problems exactly like you were just underestimating, 602 00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 2: like the ability of human like humanity to creatively solve problems. 603 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: In something I don't like global warming. There there are 604 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: don't they have, Like sea slugs in certain parts of 605 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: the ocean who are sure creating some sort of oil 606 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,840 Speaker 1: that might potentially replace fossil fuels at some point. I 607 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: mean it's it's like these are the kind of things 608 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,360 Speaker 1: that some entrepreneurs and BRAINI acts out there are testing. 609 00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,959 Speaker 1: I don't know whether it's going to succeed, but like 610 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: there are, there's always someone looking to make progress. And 611 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 1: human ingenuity it doesn't stop even in the face of 612 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:10,160 Speaker 1: tumultuous circumstances. So I think that if you're not investing 613 00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,439 Speaker 1: betting on human ingenuity to just kind of like cease, 614 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: I mean, you're really doubting human history and all the 615 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: progress that we've currently made. You're saying, oh, it's probably 616 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,480 Speaker 1: gonna stop now just when it's getting good, right, just 617 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: when it's getting interesting, And I doubt that's gonna be 618 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: the case. So simply simply put, this means continuing to 619 00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 1: invest no matter what the markets are doing and no 620 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:32,840 Speaker 1: matter what the news outlets are reporting. But again, we're 621 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: not talking about unbridled, ridiculous, obscene optimism that has no 622 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,160 Speaker 1: bearing in reality, right because I guess putting all going 623 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: all in on a single stock because you're hoping that 624 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,640 Speaker 1: one that that one's going to take off, that would 625 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: be gambling. That'd be like risk taking to the extreme. 626 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: Or there's this apartment complex Matt the owners of it 627 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: foreclosed on a thirty two hundred unit apartment complex in Houston, 628 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: largely because they were not just optimistic, they were reckless. Right, 629 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: they took out a debt that was did not have 630 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: almost any locked in interestrate it and as interest rates 631 00:29:10,360 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: went up, they felt the crunch, cash crunch. They assumed 632 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: that rents would continue to go up the way they 633 00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 1: had been going up during COVID, which was extreme. Those 634 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,480 Speaker 1: have leveled out, they have moderated, if not started to decline. 635 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:27,720 Speaker 1: And so it's not wrong to buy real estate in 636 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: plan for potential scenarios that aren't best case. You should 637 00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 1: you should have a plan in place, a backup plan, 638 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: and that I feel like that is a perfect example 639 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 1: of investing in a way that assumes everything is going 640 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 1: to continue to go gangbusters and if you have a 641 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: over the long term things will We believe in the market, right, 642 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: if people continue, if htm listeners continue to invest for 643 00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:52,760 Speaker 1: the next fifteen to twenty thirty years in the markets, 644 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: you will build wealth. But if you recklessly invest and 645 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 1: you're not paying attention to the terms, and you're not 646 00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: paying attention to kind of the the trends and what 647 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: could potentially happen even on the scene, then you're not 648 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,680 Speaker 1: striking that balanced combo, that kind of Morgan Household was preaching, 649 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:08,440 Speaker 1: I think in that quote. 650 00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I mean, like earlier, not so 651 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 2: long ago, you mentioned just how what's needed most is 652 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: more optimism, right, that's what you see, Like that's when 653 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: that's what's in the headlines is the collapse of FTX. Yeah, 654 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:23,240 Speaker 2: this bank folds because of pyramid scheme whatever. What you 655 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 2: don't hear are stories about the millions of Americans who 656 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,160 Speaker 2: are becoming millionaires because they're slowly investing within their four 657 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:30,760 Speaker 2: to one k's day in and day out. 658 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 1: We try to highlight those two and report those numbers. 659 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 2: We love that good news. 660 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And there are millions of people out there 661 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,360 Speaker 1: who have become millionaires the slow, boring methodical. 662 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. And so we want folks to be optimistic 663 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:47,040 Speaker 2: in that measured just plugging away at it kind of 664 00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,480 Speaker 2: like that's the approach we want folks to take. And optimists, well, 665 00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:52,040 Speaker 2: they also tend to do better in their careers and 666 00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,720 Speaker 2: they make more money. Stats show that sales folks who 667 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,440 Speaker 2: consider themselves to be optimistic they outsell their pessimistic counterparts 668 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: by fifth percent. That's a pretty giant gap. Optimists they 669 00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: also tend to make more and they get promoted more easily. 670 00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 2: It's almost as if as if the optimism is adding 671 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:11,840 Speaker 2: like some helpful fuel to the fire on the workfront, 672 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,960 Speaker 2: because honestly, like, if you don't think that your boss 673 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 2: is going to give you a raise, and so because 674 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: of that, because you don't think it's gonna happen, then 675 00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 2: you opt not to ask. Well, you're definitely not gonna 676 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 2: get the raise, right, Like you're just shooting yourself on 677 00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: the foot if you don't make the sales call because 678 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 2: you think that the chances are kind of small that 679 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 2: you're gonna make the sale that they'll actually be receptive. Well, 680 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:33,480 Speaker 2: you've sealed your fate without even giving it a go. 681 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 2: And so it kind of it makes sense that optimism 682 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 2: fuels your career. It fuels your earning potential, and we 683 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: certainly want folks to take the more optimistic path when 684 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 2: it comes to their work and their career. 685 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: Makes me think of how my kids ask for things 686 00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: and they are unafraid to ask for basically anything. Like 687 00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:49,720 Speaker 1: my daughter she's nine, and she's like, I want to 688 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:52,720 Speaker 1: laptop for my birthday, And I'm kind of thinking, yeah, right, 689 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: like not gonna happen. But she is, without fail, continually 690 00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,960 Speaker 1: asking for the sink, continually plugging away for it. She's 691 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: got that joal optimism history she does so sadly this 692 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: has gotten passed down from just genes, right, she's got 693 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: it built into her genetics. But it's one of those 694 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,560 Speaker 1: things where those kids they believe anything as possible, and 695 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: we need a little more of that, that playful spirit, 696 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 1: that optimistic belief that they haven't been beaten down by this. 697 00:32:16,960 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 2: Cold, hard world. 698 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: It's true, Like, that's far why I think we get 699 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: there as we have been told no, we have been rejected, 700 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: and we start to learn, we start to think that 701 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:27,800 Speaker 1: the best course of action is to not even believe 702 00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 1: or to not even attempt. Right, And so we're basically saying, 703 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: even though you might have had those experiences, there's room, 704 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 1: there's reason for optimism. And it makes me think of 705 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 1: a phrase that we've all heard, Matt in this economy, 706 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:42,959 Speaker 1: and it's kind of an excuse, right, because who can 707 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 1: make inroads in their career, their savings or investments in 708 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:49,840 Speaker 1: this economy, In this economy when everything around us is tumultuous, right, 709 00:32:49,960 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: too much pessimism will ultimately cause you to want to 710 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: save and invest less, like why do more work for 711 00:32:54,520 --> 00:32:57,400 Speaker 1: the future when you don't necessarily believe that you can 712 00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 1: build a better one or that your kids can have 713 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,040 Speaker 1: better future, and it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. You 714 00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,959 Speaker 1: either won't reach those lofty financial goals or it's going 715 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,200 Speaker 1: to take a lot longer to get there. And so 716 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 1: be careful if you lean too hard in that direction, 717 00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: because it's going to impact your savings. It's going to 718 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: impact whether or not you invest, or how much you invest, 719 00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:19,640 Speaker 1: or how you invest. It's also going to impact your career, 720 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,720 Speaker 1: the chances you're willing to take and how hard you're 721 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,440 Speaker 1: willing to go to achieve something that you're really passionate about. 722 00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:30,280 Speaker 1: I think if we are too beaten down Matt byer 723 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 1: priory experiences and the ways which we have been let 724 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,719 Speaker 1: down in the past, we are liable to lean into 725 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: that pessimism really hard. And everything around us is kind 726 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: of pushing us in that direction too. But we have 727 00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:41,680 Speaker 1: to swim across the current on. 728 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 2: This, that's right. Yeah, So we've talked through some of 729 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 2: the impacts that being optimistic and what the kind of 730 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 2: impact that that can have on your money on your finances. 731 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: But we're going to specifically get to some tips that 732 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 2: we think are going to help you to become more optimistic. 733 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,480 Speaker 2: And yeah, that's going to impact not only your money, 734 00:33:57,520 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 2: but it's going to impact your life in a very 735 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 2: real way. Get to all of that right after this. 736 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: All right, man, let's keep going. We're talking about financial optimism. 737 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,319 Speaker 1: This is just one of my favorite subjects because yes, 738 00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,880 Speaker 1: I am naturally optimistic. I was actually talking with a 739 00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:22,200 Speaker 1: friend last night and he was like, why do you 740 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 1: like such depressing music? And I was like, why do 741 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: you listen to the tunes that are just like so 742 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,719 Speaker 1: freaking sad and down? And I was like, I think 743 00:34:30,719 --> 00:34:33,680 Speaker 1: it's just because I'm such a naturally optimistic you needed to. 744 00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,200 Speaker 2: Balance balance you out. Is that why we're friends? Because 745 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,640 Speaker 2: he needs you need a wet blanket right every now 746 00:34:39,640 --> 00:34:41,359 Speaker 2: and again. Yeah. I mean I feel like it helps 747 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:42,960 Speaker 2: put me in touch. It's good to know yourself. 748 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:45,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, with something that I have a hard time getting 749 00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:47,719 Speaker 1: in touch with Normaley, But I do think there's a 750 00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:50,960 Speaker 1: difference between being optimistic and not being realistic. And I 751 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 1: think too, it's important to realize that we all were 752 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,480 Speaker 1: all born with certain dispositions and you can't just flip 753 00:34:57,480 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: a switch. And yes, maybe I came out of the 754 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,040 Speaker 1: womb more naturally sunny by nature. I don't know that, 755 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,239 Speaker 1: or who knows nature verse nurture, Like, that's a deep 756 00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 1: question that we can't really get into on this podcast, 757 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:09,560 Speaker 1: and we would know how to but that it doesn't 758 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,239 Speaker 1: mean that we have no impact on our day to 759 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: day viewpoints or that we have no ability to change, 760 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,480 Speaker 1: even if we kind of have a natural predilection towards 761 00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:19,400 Speaker 1: certain ways of being or thinking. And research finds that 762 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,120 Speaker 1: mindset is only about twenty five percent hereditary, which shows 763 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 1: that we all have a reasonable level of control over 764 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: our thought life. So, Matt, let's talk about how to 765 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: increase our optimism. I think that's really important because we've 766 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,919 Speaker 1: seen how it can negatively impact our finances. So how 767 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:38,400 Speaker 1: do we then infuse more optimism into our lives, enabling 768 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: it to hopefully help us make more progress in the 769 00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:42,560 Speaker 1: realm of money, but in other areas too. 770 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,200 Speaker 2: It's right, Well, the first thing everyone needs to do 771 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 2: is take an ice bath, because that's going to activate 772 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 2: your brown no. I mean all joking aside exercise and 773 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,720 Speaker 2: tending to your physical health. It has profound implications for 774 00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 2: your mood, for your body, and studies show that folks 775 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 2: to participate in vigorous exercise they tend to be significantly 776 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:07,600 Speaker 2: more optimistic than folks who had lower rates of activity. So, 777 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 2: simply put, what this means is get out there and 778 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 2: lift some weights, maybe get on a rowing machine like Joel. 779 00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 2: Simply just go for a hike with a friend and 780 00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,680 Speaker 2: make those things regular occurrences in your life. Find ways 781 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 2: to just incorporate these into the natural rhythm as opposed 782 00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 2: to it being something that you're going to do. You know, 783 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 2: for three weeks at the beginning of the year, and 784 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:32,919 Speaker 2: no surprise that folks who are exercising more, not only 785 00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:37,040 Speaker 2: are they more optimistic, but these optimists live between eleven 786 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 2: and fifteen percent longer on average. You literally live longer 787 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,359 Speaker 2: when you are exercising more when you are more optimistic. 788 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: And these folks also show that they stressed about their 789 00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:51,160 Speaker 2: finances for one hundred and forty five fewer days compared 790 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:53,280 Speaker 2: to their more pessimistic. 791 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: Counterparts, almost half a year. Can you imagine I stressed 792 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,359 Speaker 1: about money half as much? 793 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,000 Speaker 2: Imagine not thinking about money, which for a lot of 794 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:01,919 Speaker 2: folks is something that just really it's on their mind 795 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:03,000 Speaker 2: a lot. It stresses them out. 796 00:37:03,040 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: And I talked about the constant like IQ drain essentially, 797 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,480 Speaker 1: oh my gosh, like twelve IQ points. So people lose 798 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,279 Speaker 1: by being constantly stressed about money. And a part of 799 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: that is just a pessimist event that's taken over. Part 800 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 1: of it is a big and literally a lack of savings. 801 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:19,600 Speaker 1: But part of it then is the mental belief or 802 00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: the mental connection they have to them money as well. 803 00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, going back to the most very happy 804 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: people from the latest Wall Street Journal study that they 805 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,720 Speaker 2: did in conjunction with the University of Chicago, it's folks 806 00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 2: who are active and so just get out there, stay fit. 807 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: Makes me think though a pessimist might say, oh, you're 808 00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 1: going to live even eleven to fifteen percent longer, that 809 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,719 Speaker 1: means there's more money you got to save for retirement, 810 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 1: so might as well warm that in the bud right now, 811 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: right or yeah, but that's where pessimism can take you. 812 00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: And Matt, you just you kind of hinted at social connections. 813 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:50,080 Speaker 1: That's another thing you can do to increase your your 814 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: optimism levels. You said, go on a hike with a friend, 815 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:55,640 Speaker 1: and I do think hanging out more with family, friends, 816 00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,480 Speaker 1: and neighbors is a pretty darn good piece of advice 817 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,840 Speaker 1: that is really going to kind of us in that direction. 818 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: There's a new book called Hanging Out, and the author 819 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: makes the case for the importance of casual hangs. I 820 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:11,239 Speaker 1: feel like I could have anecdotally written. I feel like 821 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 1: that's a book that I could have written right exactly exactly. Well, 822 00:38:14,400 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: I mean, isn't it ridiculous that, Like, on one hand, 823 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: I hate that book because it seems kind of intuitive. 824 00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,799 Speaker 1: You're like, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, I need to hang 825 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:21,120 Speaker 1: out with. 826 00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:23,040 Speaker 2: Do we need a book to do this? Yeah? But 827 00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,000 Speaker 2: that being said that it says a lot about our 828 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 2: society that we need a book like this because we 829 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 2: have so focused on one particular sector of our lives 830 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 2: that we need it spelled out in order to realize 831 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 2: in order for us to lift our nose from the grindstone. 832 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:38,959 Speaker 2: Like we talked about you already mentioned Simone, we talked 833 00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,560 Speaker 2: with him on Monday's episode about just creating a more 834 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 2: diversified identity and having friends. Again, seems silly that we 835 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 2: need to that we're saying this out loud, but that's 836 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 2: such an important part of living a joyful and fulfilled life. 837 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,880 Speaker 1: Well, and hanging out with people is such a radical 838 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: proposition these days that she got interviewed on Ezra Klein Show. 839 00:38:57,000 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 1: It's it's that apparently insane of an idea to think 840 00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: that maybe this is going to make us feel better. Crazy, 841 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,960 Speaker 1: and I think it will, right, And so yeah, I 842 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,960 Speaker 1: feel like even introverts they need human connection. And the 843 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:09,680 Speaker 1: pandemic just did a number on all of us, and 844 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,280 Speaker 1: so figuring out how to rekindle those friendships is crucial 845 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,719 Speaker 1: to our future optimism because we're beings meant to live 846 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:21,919 Speaker 1: in community with one another, and meaningful relationships can turn 847 00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:22,759 Speaker 1: that round upside down. 848 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: Well, and not only I think hanging out with friends, 849 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:27,360 Speaker 2: but also family. So kind of going back to some 850 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: of the studies that we presented at the beginning of 851 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 2: the episode, it's folks who are valuing family, and I 852 00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,839 Speaker 2: think often what that can also mean is reaching out 853 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:36,479 Speaker 2: to your parents. You're out living on your own, maybe 854 00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 2: for the first time, or maybe you're in your thirties, 855 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 2: you've got a kid, and you're basically completely slammed. You're 856 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 2: in that stage of life where you have no margin 857 00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 2: when it comes to your schedule at all. It feels 858 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:51,200 Speaker 2: like every second, every minute is being scheduled. But what 859 00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,040 Speaker 2: that means is prioritizing those relationships, prioritizing family. And I 860 00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 2: think that kind of like dovetails with the social connection 861 00:39:58,360 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 2: that we get from hanging out with friends as well. 862 00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: So our friend who donated this beer to the show 863 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,399 Speaker 1: five Am, Joel, he has like a recurring happy hour 864 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 1: that he does with people on his street and everybody 865 00:40:07,960 --> 00:40:10,879 Speaker 1: knows Friday's before it's hang out in Joel's front yard 866 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:13,440 Speaker 1: nice byob So it's not like he has got to 867 00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,120 Speaker 1: get like his place cleaned up or anything like that. 868 00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:17,120 Speaker 2: Like it's super chill. 869 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's a really good, like maybe potential 870 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: thing to implement that doesn't put a big burden on 871 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: you to create some sort of hangout space. It's literally 872 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:28,440 Speaker 1: just like green light four o'clock, let's go, let's hang, 873 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:30,959 Speaker 1: let's talk, and kids will run around do crazy stuff 874 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:32,920 Speaker 1: to each other. Yeah, it's that's a good way to 875 00:40:32,920 --> 00:40:33,279 Speaker 1: go about it. 876 00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 2: It helps too when you live in la and the 877 00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,799 Speaker 2: weather's always nice, that's true, you hang out outside in 878 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,600 Speaker 2: the front yard. Yeah, but maybe maybe that's an argument 879 00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:44,759 Speaker 2: for moving down to the sun Belt, like so many 880 00:40:44,760 --> 00:40:47,240 Speaker 2: folks are doing these days. But another bit of advice 881 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 2: that we think is going to lead you to becoming 882 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,719 Speaker 2: more optimistic is to consume less media, both mainstream and 883 00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:56,680 Speaker 2: social media, because I mean, you probably don't want to 884 00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,759 Speaker 2: be completely ignorant of what's going on out there in 885 00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,560 Speaker 2: the world, right But the twenty four to seven news cycle, 886 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:03,400 Speaker 2: it hasn't been a good thing for us as a country, 887 00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 2: and tuning into it with regularity isn't doing great things 888 00:41:07,239 --> 00:41:10,239 Speaker 2: for your outlook on life. In all likelihood, thinking about 889 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 2: politics less that would likely help a great deal a 890 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:15,439 Speaker 2: great number of folks as well. And let's be honest, 891 00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,759 Speaker 2: it's not like we have the ability to change much 892 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 2: of that anyway. And so that's kind of like the 893 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:23,840 Speaker 2: mainstream national media. But when it comes to social media, 894 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:26,439 Speaker 2: man like delete apps from your phone if you find 895 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 2: yourself doom scrolling late at night and it's a keeping 896 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 2: you from going to sleep on time because you just 897 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:35,000 Speaker 2: keep scrolling and you keep scrolling. But and then on 898 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:37,600 Speaker 2: top of that, you're getting you're blasting yourself not only 899 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 2: with potentially unhealthy content, that's comparing yourself to other people 900 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 2: and the lives of folks who where you're like, oh, 901 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:46,439 Speaker 2: I kind of wish I was abroad or I wish 902 00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 2: I was doing what is it like slow travel where 903 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 2: you're living in a country for months at a time. 904 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 2: It's that unhealthy blue light stuff too, right, Yeah, exactly, 905 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 2: That's what I was gonna say. Just blasting your brain 906 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:58,160 Speaker 2: like that blue light. It's telling your brain that it's 907 00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:00,719 Speaker 2: not time to go to sleep time you do put 908 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:01,440 Speaker 2: your phone down. 909 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,680 Speaker 1: It's party time, and it's going to take you an 910 00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: extra hour of turning and wrestling and. 911 00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,239 Speaker 2: It's crappy sleep. And so I mean, I think it 912 00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:09,680 Speaker 2: can It sounds silly, but even just charging your phone 913 00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 2: in a different room, I think that can go a 914 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,279 Speaker 2: long ways. And it's it's something that sounds like old, 915 00:42:14,560 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 2: like fuddy duddy advice, but I've like, literally, I think 916 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,719 Speaker 2: this is something I'm going to start implementing in my 917 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,920 Speaker 2: own life because I find myself I'm like, okay, I'm 918 00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:24,040 Speaker 2: a scroll for a little bit longer before I know it, 919 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:25,960 Speaker 2: like fifteen minutes as a lapse, and I'm like, dang it, 920 00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 2: I should already be asleep by now. Yeah. 921 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,600 Speaker 1: No, I think that's good. That's good advice, and I 922 00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:31,360 Speaker 1: think so something else. This one's gonna sound a bit 923 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,000 Speaker 1: woo woo mat which is not normally my vibe. But 924 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:36,319 Speaker 1: imagining good things for your future, I think I can 925 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: also help when it comes to becoming more optimistic. And 926 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: what I mean is like thinking about what it's going 927 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,960 Speaker 1: to be like to achieve your goals. It can give 928 00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:45,600 Speaker 1: you the visualization to keep going down the path of 929 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:48,440 Speaker 1: reaching them in here and now. And so I don't know, 930 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,000 Speaker 1: imagine future you with no credit card debt and meaningful 931 00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 1: savings on hand, and how that would significantly change your life. 932 00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:57,600 Speaker 1: And it's it's not some sort of dream it and 933 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: achieve it thing. I hate stuff like that. But the 934 00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: way we talk to ourselves matters. It's crazy important manifested Joel, 935 00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:07,440 Speaker 1: not that like it's and I don't know how to 936 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:10,040 Speaker 1: say it without like I kind of tone in this line, right, 937 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:11,880 Speaker 1: But so many studies have found this, like how we 938 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:15,360 Speaker 1: talk to ourselves and how we're able to conceive of 939 00:43:15,400 --> 00:43:18,480 Speaker 1: our own futures. If we can think good things about 940 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:20,600 Speaker 1: those things, then it's going to actually help put us 941 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:22,000 Speaker 1: on the path in the right direction. When we can 942 00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,440 Speaker 1: visualize it, it makes us more motivated than to do 943 00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:26,279 Speaker 1: the things here and now that are going to help 944 00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:28,319 Speaker 1: us actually get there. And if we keep doubting our 945 00:43:28,360 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: ability to make progress, it's going to directly impact the 946 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,799 Speaker 1: aption actions that we take or opt not to take. 947 00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, But simultaneously, like there's a balance, this stright between 948 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:40,279 Speaker 2: looking ahead to the future and being thankful for the 949 00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 2: things that you already have, like the ability to kind 950 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,799 Speaker 2: of look back on like your history and to be 951 00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 2: thankful for those things. 952 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:50,200 Speaker 1: And so that's actually I think another thing that helps 953 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,440 Speaker 1: us read more optimism is to document the good things 954 00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:55,400 Speaker 1: that we have right now. This is a practice that 955 00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,279 Speaker 1: we actually we do at the dinner table every night 956 00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: with our kids, and we call it like a rose, 957 00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,799 Speaker 1: a button, thorn, And so what was your rose the day? 958 00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,839 Speaker 1: What was the best thing that happened today? What's the bud? 959 00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,720 Speaker 1: What's the thing you're looking forward to in the future? 960 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,440 Speaker 1: Is it camp this summer? Is it a field trip? 961 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,319 Speaker 2: Like? Is it the end of school? Is it? Like? 962 00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:13,759 Speaker 1: What is it that you're excited about? And then the thorn, like, 963 00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,239 Speaker 1: let's talk about the bad things too. Sometimes bad things happen, 964 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:18,560 Speaker 1: and then how can we discuss that in a way 965 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,520 Speaker 1: that maybe makes us feel better and kind of turns 966 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,359 Speaker 1: that negative, the negative thing that might have happened that day, 967 00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 1: into a healing conversation. So I don't know, I think 968 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: that that's kind of how we practice it. And again, 969 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:30,000 Speaker 1: maybe that sounds. 970 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 2: A lot weird, but I think I think it's good. 971 00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,040 Speaker 1: Documenting those good things, like we're we're so quick to 972 00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: discount those good things or not even like when someone 973 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,120 Speaker 1: does something amazing for it's just it's not just saying 974 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:42,080 Speaker 1: thank you that someone made you dinner. I mean, what 975 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,200 Speaker 1: does it do for them when you say that, when 976 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:45,640 Speaker 1: you use those words, and then what does it do 977 00:44:45,719 --> 00:44:47,160 Speaker 1: for you when you actually acknowledge it? 978 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, And in my mind, it's less about it's 979 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:52,799 Speaker 2: not that we're actively trying to discount things. It's just 980 00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,240 Speaker 2: that we're just looking ahead. Right. There's a fine balance 981 00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,600 Speaker 2: between setting goals for yourself and working towards those things 982 00:44:57,960 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 2: versus constantly only looking for and looking ahead, which is 983 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,799 Speaker 2: why I think, like you said, like pausing for a 984 00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:06,600 Speaker 2: moment and talking about your day, like looking to the past, 985 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,799 Speaker 2: how that can be helpful. A conversation Kate and I've 986 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,680 Speaker 2: had recently is like we've noticed that we don't have 987 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,160 Speaker 2: many photos like hung up in our house, and I 988 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,279 Speaker 2: think one of the things that we're gonna do is 989 00:45:16,440 --> 00:45:19,799 Speaker 2: literally print out pictures from our past to help us 990 00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:22,520 Speaker 2: to be thankful for where we are now. It because 991 00:45:22,560 --> 00:45:25,200 Speaker 2: I think I Kate and I are both very visual, 992 00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:27,560 Speaker 2: and I think we need some visual cues to help 993 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:29,960 Speaker 2: us to remember what has happened in the past, you know, 994 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,960 Speaker 2: like we need those things to help us to see that, like, 995 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,240 Speaker 2: oh man, like look, how look at that tiny apartment 996 00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 2: that we used to live in. Can you believe, though, 997 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,839 Speaker 2: how far we've come? Like yeah, or look how small 998 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,760 Speaker 2: the kids were, or like, oh man, look how unhealthy 999 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 2: I was back then, Like I'm in much better health now. 1000 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: But the ability to reflect upon those things can make 1001 00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 2: us grateful for the things that we've achieved in the past. 1002 00:45:51,600 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 2: And not only can it be I think it can 1003 00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:57,440 Speaker 2: also make us a little more content perhaps with the 1004 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,200 Speaker 2: life that we're living now, Like like I almost think 1005 00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:02,000 Speaker 2: by thinking about things that have happened in the past 1006 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,880 Speaker 2: and by being gracious for the things that I'm able 1007 00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 2: to live more presently within the here and now, right, 1008 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:10,480 Speaker 2: And so it's not like you're just completely living in 1009 00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:11,440 Speaker 2: the past where you're. 1010 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,480 Speaker 1: Just like, oh, yeah, the good old days, like where 1011 00:46:13,520 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: you're hanging out with a bunch of high school buddies 1012 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:16,920 Speaker 1: or something like. We're experiencing a lot of the nostalgic 1013 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:19,000 Speaker 1: race because we miss the days of yours. 1014 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:19,560 Speaker 2: Right. 1015 00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:21,840 Speaker 1: That's why the Super Mario Brothers movie, even though apparently 1016 00:46:21,840 --> 00:46:23,759 Speaker 1: it wasn't good, like, made eight hundred million. 1017 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:24,480 Speaker 2: Oh did it? Really? 1018 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:29,440 Speaker 1: Because I think we're longing for nostalgic events because we 1019 00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:32,680 Speaker 1: think that things are better in the nineties. And like, 1020 00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:34,960 Speaker 1: when you think about it, if you could be if 1021 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,840 Speaker 1: someone said I've got a time machine, where should I 1022 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:39,840 Speaker 1: transport you back to? Most of us probably wouldn't choose 1023 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 1: to go back to anywhere in the past. I mean, 1024 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,319 Speaker 1: unless like something terrible has happened in your life. But 1025 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:45,000 Speaker 1: think about. 1026 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,240 Speaker 2: Just such positive emotions about things in the past. 1027 00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, And there's nothing wrong with that. There's nothing wrong 1028 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:52,879 Speaker 1: with having this. Like I'd like to listen to Third 1029 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:54,359 Speaker 1: Eye Blind and be like, oh, the nineties were great, 1030 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:56,239 Speaker 1: But it doesn't mean that I want to like live 1031 00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:56,759 Speaker 1: in that either. 1032 00:46:56,880 --> 00:46:59,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, man, I totally agree, And I think it's important 1033 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,399 Speaker 2: to point out here that being an optimist, this does 1034 00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,879 Speaker 2: not mean ignoring bad things completely. Right. I think we've 1035 00:47:04,880 --> 00:47:06,879 Speaker 2: all met folks out there who will tell you that, like, hey, 1036 00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:09,080 Speaker 2: it'll be all right, Like, don't worry about it at 1037 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,319 Speaker 2: all the moment after something really bad has happened. Yeah, Like, 1038 00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,320 Speaker 2: in my mind, that's not necessarily optimism. It's almost avoidance, 1039 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,479 Speaker 2: where you're just squashing any feelings that you might have. 1040 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:22,160 Speaker 2: Optimism isn't about tamping down how it is that you 1041 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:24,719 Speaker 2: feel about something. It's really all about putting difficulties that 1042 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,239 Speaker 2: you encounter in a new light. It's sort of saying 1043 00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,560 Speaker 2: to yourself, Hey, this is an obstacle, this is a hurdle. 1044 00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:31,680 Speaker 2: It's going to take some extra effort on my part, 1045 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,160 Speaker 2: but I'm still going to get to where I want 1046 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,279 Speaker 2: to be. I think it's okay to feel the sheer weight, 1047 00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,520 Speaker 2: the sheer crappiness of a situation. We just don't want 1048 00:47:39,560 --> 00:47:42,000 Speaker 2: you to sit in that funk for too long. Yeah, 1049 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:46,080 Speaker 2: it's okay to recognize those feelings, but then pretty shortly 1050 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,200 Speaker 2: after that to be like, okay, but again, this is 1051 00:47:48,239 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 2: what I'm working towards, and I need to make sure 1052 00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:51,520 Speaker 2: that we're taking the steps to get there. 1053 00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, and right now, collectively, as a society, we're stewing 1054 00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 1: in our own pessimism and it is radically unhealthy. And 1055 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,240 Speaker 1: so optimism, we would say, is a sort of crazy 1056 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:02,840 Speaker 1: when you think about it. It has all these incredible benefits. 1057 00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:04,719 Speaker 1: And the thing is, the more progress you make, the 1058 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,000 Speaker 1: more optimistic you start to become. It's the opposite, Matt 1059 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: of what you were talking about earlier, like the terrible 1060 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:12,800 Speaker 1: vicious cycle, and it becomes we're now taking those continued 1061 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,319 Speaker 1: steps in the right direction, breeds even more progress. It's 1062 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,040 Speaker 1: a it's a virtuous cycle of sorts. Right now, you 1063 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:20,439 Speaker 1: know what can be done, and so you keep doing it, 1064 00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:22,800 Speaker 1: and you start to make progress, and you get energized 1065 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:25,160 Speaker 1: by the progress, and you keep marching in the right direction. 1066 00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,840 Speaker 1: And I don't think either of us is saying that 1067 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:30,680 Speaker 1: optimism is a cure all for poverty or for not 1068 00:48:30,719 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: having enough money or for having like no income. 1069 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,719 Speaker 2: Hey just be happier, right, yeah, Just. 1070 00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:36,680 Speaker 1: Turn that front upside down, have a better outlook on life, 1071 00:48:36,719 --> 00:48:38,600 Speaker 1: slap yourself on the button, keep going. I mean, that's 1072 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:41,799 Speaker 1: that's not what we're saying here. But like especially I 1073 00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:43,799 Speaker 1: think in today's day and age, with what's going on 1074 00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:45,280 Speaker 1: in our culture. 1075 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:45,440 Speaker 2: As a whole. 1076 00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:49,920 Speaker 1: We need a message that optimism is warranted and that 1077 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:50,760 Speaker 1: it makes a difference. 1078 00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 2: Share this episode of with three Friends and we will 1079 00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 2: upload a video of Joel slapping himself on the butt. 1080 00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,480 Speaker 2: All right, man, let's get to the beer that you 1081 00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 2: and I and during this episode, it's gonna look a 1082 00:49:01,960 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 2: real weird like you smack somebody else on the butt, 1083 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:06,919 Speaker 2: like all right, go get them, or like you pat 1084 00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:08,719 Speaker 2: yourself on the back, But you said pat yourself on 1085 00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:11,000 Speaker 2: the butt, which in my mind was a very funny picture. 1086 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:16,080 Speaker 2: Our beer we enjoyed a stress dissolver. This was a 1087 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,440 Speaker 2: BlackBerry sour beer by Common Space. A big things to 1088 00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,399 Speaker 2: our friend Joel out in California for donating this one 1089 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,120 Speaker 2: to the show. What were your thoughts on this one, buddy? 1090 00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:26,880 Speaker 1: So this was lightly sour. BlackBerry is not usually a 1091 00:49:26,880 --> 00:49:29,320 Speaker 1: berry found in beers. I feel like it's often raspberries 1092 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,440 Speaker 1: or strawberries or cherries, but this was blueberry or blueberry, 1093 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: so this was interesting. 1094 00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:37,200 Speaker 2: And yeah, BlackBerry is like lower on the hierarchy of 1095 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,440 Speaker 2: the different berries that get used in the brewing process. 1096 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,440 Speaker 1: They're usually kind of second fiddle right to all the 1097 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,120 Speaker 1: other beer Like fit fiddle. They all shine today though 1098 00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,440 Speaker 1: in this one, and so yeah, no, I liked it 1099 00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:50,000 Speaker 1: was it was really light for yeah, so it wasn't 1100 00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:51,319 Speaker 1: terribly terribly tart. 1101 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, it wasn't super sold like it's a sour beer, 1102 00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:56,520 Speaker 2: but it didn't have like, it wasn't overly acidic. It 1103 00:49:56,520 --> 00:49:58,960 Speaker 2: didn't have like that mouth puckering sourness to it could 1104 00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:00,439 Speaker 2: really still be kind of like a long more beer, 1105 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,399 Speaker 2: right if you oh yeah, yeah, you know, just kind 1106 00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:04,480 Speaker 2: of I know, beer doesn't actually quench your thirst, but 1107 00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,600 Speaker 2: a kind of feels thirst squnching, like it was effervescent, 1108 00:50:07,760 --> 00:50:09,400 Speaker 2: and so it kind of made it almost made me 1109 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,560 Speaker 2: think of like a BlackBerry soda all right, Like it 1110 00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,320 Speaker 2: was just real clean. It didn't have any funk, almost 1111 00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:18,719 Speaker 2: like a berlinervice, but without that weedy chewiness that oftentimes 1112 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,040 Speaker 2: finishes out a Burlin advice you know. Yeah, okay, yeah nice. Yeah, Well, 1113 00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:24,799 Speaker 2: either way, I'm glad you and I got to enjoy 1114 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:27,239 Speaker 2: this one. It's a very delicious beer to have on 1115 00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:29,839 Speaker 2: some of these warmer days that we've been experiencing. So 1116 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,520 Speaker 2: maybe I'll crack one of these and get to cut 1117 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:34,200 Speaker 2: my grass right after this episode. 1118 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:36,720 Speaker 1: There you go all right, sounds nice. Well, thanks everybody 1119 00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,200 Speaker 1: for listening. We always appreciate it. If you want links 1120 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:40,520 Speaker 1: to some of the stuff we mentioned, you can find 1121 00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,160 Speaker 1: those up on the show notes at how to money 1122 00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,440 Speaker 1: dot com. And if you want more optimistic money advice, 1123 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,640 Speaker 1: you can always find that in r how to Money newsletter, 1124 00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: which comes out every Tuesday morning. You can sign up 1125 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:51,040 Speaker 1: for that at how to money dot com slash newsletter. 1126 00:50:51,160 --> 00:50:53,080 Speaker 1: It's free, by the way, so it's right check it out. 1127 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: But that's gonna be it for this one, buddy. 1128 00:50:54,280 --> 00:51:00,560 Speaker 2: Until next time, Best friends out, best Friends Out. The