WEBVTT - BitTorrent and The Pirate Bay

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with I Heart Radio

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<v Speaker 1>and the Love All Things Tech. And eighteen years ago

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<v Speaker 1>or so, a group of hackers and political activists calling

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<v Speaker 1>themselves the Bureau of Piracy in Sweden launched a website

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<v Speaker 1>that would become the target of numerous lawsuits and police raids.

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<v Speaker 1>And yet eighteen years later, the website, the Pirate Bay,

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<v Speaker 1>is still up and running. So today I thought I

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<v Speaker 1>would talk not just about the history of the site,

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<v Speaker 1>or the philosophy of the site's founders, or even the

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<v Speaker 1>battles fought between the established music industry and the pirate community,

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<v Speaker 1>but also the technology that underpins the whole thing in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place. But first, let's start with some under

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<v Speaker 1>lying facts of how we got here, which will involve

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<v Speaker 1>a quick discussion of the history of the music industry

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<v Speaker 1>and its issue with copying media, because that's really at

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<v Speaker 1>the heart of all this. Now, in the old old days,

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<v Speaker 1>before the the era of recorded media, so before you

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<v Speaker 1>could actually make a record of music other than like

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<v Speaker 1>sheet music or something. Making a living off music was

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<v Speaker 1>pretty darn tough. Um. You had your folk musicians who

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<v Speaker 1>would earn, you know, a bit of cash here, and

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<v Speaker 1>they're getting hired to play or maybe paid to go

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<v Speaker 1>away if they were really bad. You had your composers.

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<v Speaker 1>Many of those would work either in the service of

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<v Speaker 1>a monarch or nobility, or maybe the church. Bach did

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of work for the church, only if you

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<v Speaker 1>had a more public facing way of paying the bills.

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<v Speaker 1>Beethoven was one of those um and actually made money

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<v Speaker 1>by selling sheet music of his compositions. But it was

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<v Speaker 1>really the invention of recorded media like wax cylinders and

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<v Speaker 1>such that really opened up doors not just for musicians

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<v Speaker 1>but also for the companies that made the recordings. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>it really opened up doors for those companies now. All

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<v Speaker 1>the way back in eighteen eighty nine, a guy named

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<v Speaker 1>Edward D. Easton founded a phonograph company called Columbia. It had,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, various different names, but Columbia Music, Columbia Pictures

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<v Speaker 1>all comes from this original company. In eighteen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 1>it worked in tandem with Thomas Edison's company for a

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<v Speaker 1>few years, producing regional recordings of its own wax cylinders

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<v Speaker 1>in or to selling these brand new inventions of the phonograph.

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<v Speaker 1>But other companies started to come into being as well,

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<v Speaker 1>and some of them started to introduce new technologies like

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<v Speaker 1>recorded discs as in you know, record albums. They were

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<v Speaker 1>made out of shellac instead of vinyl for the first

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<v Speaker 1>several decades. But you know that meant that there was

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<v Speaker 1>a technological evolution beyond the wax cylinder. Well, the companies,

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<v Speaker 1>you know now that there were a few of them,

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<v Speaker 1>were eager to kind of corner a market, to offer

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<v Speaker 1>something to customers that the other companies could not offer,

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<v Speaker 1>and they began to work with various artists and we're

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<v Speaker 1>signing them to exclusive deals like this is where you

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<v Speaker 1>would get signed to a record label. Essentially, the artists

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<v Speaker 1>would get a chance to record their music and make

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<v Speaker 1>some money off of it, and the companies would establish

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<v Speaker 1>a roster of artists that they could promote and sell

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<v Speaker 1>to customers, and the music industry was effectively born. It was,

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<v Speaker 1>and to some extent still is, cut throat, with companies

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<v Speaker 1>jealously scooping up talents that are perceived to be a commodity,

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<v Speaker 1>and a whole business model came to form over time,

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<v Speaker 1>with companies determining how much to pay out to artists.

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<v Speaker 1>Generally speak, those musicians don't see a whole lot of

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<v Speaker 1>money from record sales. You know, you might get a

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<v Speaker 1>big advance as a record contract, but you don't necessarily

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<v Speaker 1>make a lot of money off of the record sales themselves,

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<v Speaker 1>unless you have a good royalty deal and you sell

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<v Speaker 1>a let's see, I think the technical term is a

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<v Speaker 1>metric crap ton of records. And nowadays that's even harder

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<v Speaker 1>to do, right because you've got things like streaming services.

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<v Speaker 1>That's a whole separate issue that I should really go

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<v Speaker 1>into at some point to talk about the music industry

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<v Speaker 1>streaming and how that affects artists. But let's get back

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<v Speaker 1>to talking about the music industry in general. So in

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen fifty two, way before the streaming days, several music

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<v Speaker 1>labels work to form an organization in America called the

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<v Speaker 1>Recording Industry Association of America or r I double A. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>the r I double A is a trade organization that

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<v Speaker 1>sets technical standards for the recording industry. You know, which

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<v Speaker 1>is important. You want to make sure that you're not

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<v Speaker 1>fragmenting the market to the point where customers get frustrated, right,

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<v Speaker 1>Like if it turned out I could buy a record

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<v Speaker 1>from Columbia and a different record from Victor, but they

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<v Speaker 1>would only play on their respective players, and I can't

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<v Speaker 1>afford both players. That would be incredibly frustrating. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>as a customer, I just want the stuff I buy

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<v Speaker 1>to work on the stuff that I have. Right. We've

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<v Speaker 1>seen it over and over again that when the the

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<v Speaker 1>market gets fragmented with different standards, it hurts everybody in

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<v Speaker 1>the long run. So that was one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>that are I Double A formed. But it also tracks

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<v Speaker 1>recording sales, and it's the organization that awards stuff like

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<v Speaker 1>gold records and platinum records. So if you hear about

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<v Speaker 1>a record going platinum, it was the r I Double

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<v Speaker 1>A that tracked those sales. And uh and you know,

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<v Speaker 1>essentially authorize that to say like, yes, this this activates

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<v Speaker 1>Again a weird thing in the streaming age, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>probably most famous for folks who are at least Internet

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<v Speaker 1>savvy as the organization that fights tooth and nail against

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<v Speaker 1>piracy and copyright infringement, sometimes to the point of well

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<v Speaker 1>beyond belief. I would say, one thing we've seen over

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<v Speaker 1>and over in the music biz and the entertainment business overall,

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<v Speaker 1>not just music. I mean, we've seen this in the

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<v Speaker 1>movie industry and TV as well. Is a reluctance to

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<v Speaker 1>support anything that would allow someone to make a copy

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<v Speaker 1>of a recorded work. So for a long time that

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<v Speaker 1>really was not an issue. There just wasn't an easy

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<v Speaker 1>way to do it. The average person had no way

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<v Speaker 1>to copy a recording. Then in the nineteen sixties we

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<v Speaker 1>had the development of the cassette tape, though it would

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<v Speaker 1>take a few more years for cassette tapes to reach

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<v Speaker 1>a quality suitable for music, but once that happened, we

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<v Speaker 1>saw the r I double A really take notice. It

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<v Speaker 1>would become something of a pattern. As tech companies developed

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<v Speaker 1>ways for consumers to copy media onto a format, we

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<v Speaker 1>would see a resistance to that in the industry and

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<v Speaker 1>lobbying activities that were aimed at extending copy right law

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<v Speaker 1>to protect copyright holders and to like try and strike

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<v Speaker 1>down technology before it could hit the public. And let's

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<v Speaker 1>do a quick aside about copyright holders, because this is

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<v Speaker 1>important not just for this discussion about the music industry,

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<v Speaker 1>but also about the pirate bay in particular. So in

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<v Speaker 1>the United States, copyright law is arguably pretty darn bonkers,

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<v Speaker 1>thanks largely to major corporations like Disney pushing for expanded

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<v Speaker 1>copyright protection over the years. So current copyright law provides

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<v Speaker 1>exclusive rights to the copyright holder for a term of

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<v Speaker 1>seventy years after the author of that works death, so

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<v Speaker 1>the entire life of the author plus seventy years or

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<v Speaker 1>nine years after publication if the rights are held not

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<v Speaker 1>by you know, an author, but rather say, someone else,

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<v Speaker 1>So holding a copyright gives the holder the exclusive right

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<v Speaker 1>to reproduce and sell those reproductions or copies of that work.

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<v Speaker 1>If you are not the copyright holder, then you do

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<v Speaker 1>not have the right to make copies, and yet that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, can be considered infringement. I should also mention

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<v Speaker 1>that frequently the copyright holder in this case is not

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<v Speaker 1>necessarily the person who wrote a piece of music or

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<v Speaker 1>the artist or group that recorded the music. It's typically

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<v Speaker 1>the music company that's the copyright holder. So that's not

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<v Speaker 1>the case everywhere, mind you, but for pretty much the

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<v Speaker 1>entire history of the music industry, music companies have dominated

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<v Speaker 1>the copyright space, and so defending copyright wasn't really about

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<v Speaker 1>standing up for the artists and writers out there, although

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<v Speaker 1>that's how it's almost always framed it was actually to

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<v Speaker 1>protect the financial assets of a company. However, there's also

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<v Speaker 1>a concept called fair use. This complicates matters. Now. Generally speaking,

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<v Speaker 1>there's some pretty narrow cases in which someone can make

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<v Speaker 1>an unauthorized copy of a copyrighted work and it won't

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<v Speaker 1>be considered copyright infringement. Typically, these restrictions fall into stuff

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<v Speaker 1>like if you're doing it for academic research, or you're

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<v Speaker 1>providing criticism of a work, or you're making a parody

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<v Speaker 1>of a work. But even within these restrictions, there's a

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<v Speaker 1>fairly narrow path you have to follow. So for example,

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<v Speaker 1>let's say that you wanted to critique the latest Stephen

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<v Speaker 1>King novel, so you include several chapters of that novel

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<v Speaker 1>in full as part of your critique. Well, you would

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<v Speaker 1>really be pushing your luck because you're using so much

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<v Speaker 1>of the original work. Now, fair use isn't a force

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<v Speaker 1>field or anything like. Even if you're following all the

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<v Speaker 1>rules and you're maybe you're criticizing something and you're using

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of the original work in order to

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<v Speaker 1>make a point, and you've really got all your bases covered,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not like fair use is a preemptive strike. It's

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<v Speaker 1>actually something that only comes into play once you get

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<v Speaker 1>taken to court and you would present your case to

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<v Speaker 1>a judge and try to argue fair you and the

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<v Speaker 1>court would decide whether or not it was actually fair

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<v Speaker 1>use or not. You can't, you know, predeclare this is

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<v Speaker 1>fair use. No matter how many times you might see

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<v Speaker 1>something like that on say a social networking platform or

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<v Speaker 1>YouTube or whatever. It don't work that way. Also, the

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<v Speaker 1>whole thing of I only used ten seconds of audio.

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<v Speaker 1>That you know, the amount you use does factor into

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<v Speaker 1>decisions about whether or not something is fair use, but

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<v Speaker 1>there is no minimum amount that is magical anyway, even

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<v Speaker 1>if you're in the right, if someone takes you to

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<v Speaker 1>court and you defend yourself with an argument about fair

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<v Speaker 1>use and you win, it's still expensive. So unless you're

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<v Speaker 1>awarded some money in the process, you're gonna be out

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<v Speaker 1>some cash. It's it's tough well. Home reproduction of copyrighted

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<v Speaker 1>works is one of those sticky areas that sometimes gets

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<v Speaker 1>lumped in with fair use because while there's been discussions

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<v Speaker 1>about working in an exemption for home copying for for

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<v Speaker 1>like archival purposes or whatever, it's never been codified in

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<v Speaker 1>US law. So if you were to purchase an album,

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<v Speaker 1>whether you know it was on CD, your vinyl, or whatever,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it's even digital. You know, maybe you purchased a

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<v Speaker 1>digital album and then you decide to make a backup

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<v Speaker 1>recording of it. And let's say that you know you're

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<v Speaker 1>going to old school, you're putting it on a cassette.

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<v Speaker 1>You make a cassette recording of the album. There are

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<v Speaker 1>some people who would argue that what you've done could

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<v Speaker 1>be fair use because you're creating an archive or backup

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<v Speaker 1>copy of work. You're not used making any commercial use

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<v Speaker 1>of it. You're not selling it, you're not publishing it.

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<v Speaker 1>You still have the original copy, so it's not like

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<v Speaker 1>you've given your original copy away. And you're generally thought

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<v Speaker 1>of to be in the clear as long as the

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<v Speaker 1>copy you have made is for your own personal use

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<v Speaker 1>and not for commercial purposes, even though again this is

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<v Speaker 1>not codified in law. It's just the interpretation that people

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<v Speaker 1>have made. But he's saw the R I double A

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<v Speaker 1>react in similar ways every single time a new consumer

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<v Speaker 1>tech with copying abilities appeared, with the R I double

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<v Speaker 1>A essentially saying this was doomed for the industry. We

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<v Speaker 1>saw that TV and movie studios do the same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>With the rise of the VCR, we really saw the

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<v Speaker 1>r I double A push harder. With the emergence of

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<v Speaker 1>digital audio tapes or debt formats. The big worry there

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<v Speaker 1>was that unlike you know, okay, so analog cassettes, analog formats,

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<v Speaker 1>cassette tapes are analog, uh, generally meant that you would

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<v Speaker 1>have a decline in audio quality, like the copy would

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<v Speaker 1>not sound as good as the original. So there was

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit of a relief in the industry because

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<v Speaker 1>the thought was, well, yeah, people can copy stuff, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and we don't like that, not even if they're just

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<v Speaker 1>copying it for themselves. But at least the copies don't

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<v Speaker 1>sound as good as the originals, so we have the

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<v Speaker 1>edge there. Well, digital was different, right, Digital recordings can

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<v Speaker 1>go bit for bit and you can have a perfect

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<v Speaker 1>transfer of a file, meaning there's no decrease in audio quality.

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<v Speaker 1>The copy is just as good as the original. So

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<v Speaker 1>the quality you get would be dependent upon the playback

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<v Speaker 1>device you were using more than anything else. Well, the

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<v Speaker 1>R I double A did not like that, and they

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<v Speaker 1>lobbied very hard to head off issues with digital transfers,

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<v Speaker 1>the fear being that if it's easy to make perfect

0:13:25.760 --> 0:13:28.280
<v Speaker 1>copies of stuff, piracy will run rampant and the music

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:30.959
<v Speaker 1>industry as a whole will collapse. Now I do not

0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:34.760
<v Speaker 1>totally by that argument, by the way, but the r

0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I double A was able to affect legislation enough for

0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.840
<v Speaker 1>the DAT format to be kind of dead on a rival.

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it did exist, but there are a lot

0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.440
<v Speaker 1>of copy of protections that were built in place that

0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:52.000
<v Speaker 1>inhibited that particular technology from getting widespread adoption. Uh, the

0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:55.040
<v Speaker 1>compact disc would have much better success. And there are

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.000
<v Speaker 1>other parts of that story as well, but that goes

0:13:57.040 --> 0:13:59.880
<v Speaker 1>beyond this episode. Anyway, you can only imagine that once

0:13:59.880 --> 0:14:02.960
<v Speaker 1>we reached the point where it became feasible to share

0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:06.280
<v Speaker 1>digital files over the Internet, how the r I double

0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.200
<v Speaker 1>A reacted. The trade organization is famous for its vigorous

0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:16.040
<v Speaker 1>defense of copyright, So we're gonna skip up to This

0:14:16.120 --> 0:14:18.480
<v Speaker 1>was a few years before the emergence of bit Torrent,

0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 1>and a few years more before the Pirate Bay would launch.

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:27.240
<v Speaker 1>So in nine, an American college student named Shawn Fanning

0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:31.960
<v Speaker 1>created a peer to peer network platform called Napster. Oh Napster,

0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.840
<v Speaker 1>what a Hornet's nest. You stir it up, all right.

0:14:35.160 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about peer to peer for a second. So

0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:40.240
<v Speaker 1>in the early days of the general public being aware

0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:43.000
<v Speaker 1>of the Internet, one of the really big limiting factors

0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:46.320
<v Speaker 1>was the download speeds. I mean a lot of people

0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:49.920
<v Speaker 1>were using dial up Internet. It was slow. Transferring large

0:14:49.920 --> 0:14:52.440
<v Speaker 1>files could take a really long time, and if there

0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>were any network issues between the client, which is the

0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>computer what's doing the downloading, and the server that would

0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>be the peer that hosted the original file. If anything

0:15:02.960 --> 0:15:05.640
<v Speaker 1>happened between those two, it could take even longer to

0:15:05.680 --> 0:15:08.480
<v Speaker 1>download the file, right, like if a connection broke or something.

0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Peer to peer networks presented an alternative to your classic

0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.240
<v Speaker 1>client server system and appeer to peer network. Every computer

0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>connected to that network acts both as a client and

0:15:21.240 --> 0:15:24.160
<v Speaker 1>a server. That's why they're called peers. They're all peers

0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.760
<v Speaker 1>of each other. Typically, you would designate a folder in

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.840
<v Speaker 1>your computers directory for the purposes of downloading and sharing files.

0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Anything you put in that folder would become visible and

0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.800
<v Speaker 1>accessible to all the other computers on this peer to

0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:42.640
<v Speaker 1>peer network, and any downloads you initiated would go into

0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:44.680
<v Speaker 1>that folder. It didn't have to be that way, by

0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.600
<v Speaker 1>the way, you could actually direct stuff to a different folder,

0:15:47.640 --> 0:15:50.520
<v Speaker 1>and you could choose to share nothing. But it was

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:53.160
<v Speaker 1>a pretty typical approach to do it this way. Now,

0:15:53.200 --> 0:15:55.560
<v Speaker 1>the big benefit of the peer to peer system is

0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 1>that the files could propagate across networks fairly quickly. You'd

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.320
<v Speaker 1>load up the P two P client, the program you

0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.840
<v Speaker 1>were using to access this network, and you would look

0:16:05.840 --> 0:16:08.400
<v Speaker 1>for servers that were hosting a file that you were

0:16:08.400 --> 0:16:11.720
<v Speaker 1>particularly interested in. And now, assuming that was a pretty

0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.520
<v Speaker 1>popular file, you would probably see a pretty good selection

0:16:14.560 --> 0:16:18.960
<v Speaker 1>of options and you could choose a server appear to

0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.440
<v Speaker 1>download from. You know, you could look to see about

0:16:21.480 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>signal strength or how far away it was. Like, if

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:26.680
<v Speaker 1>you saw something that had a pretty good signal strength

0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:28.800
<v Speaker 1>and it was close to you, you could guess that

0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.000
<v Speaker 1>you were going to get that file fairly quickly, at

0:16:31.080 --> 0:16:35.040
<v Speaker 1>least as quickly as anything traveled on the Internet back

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineties. Uh And if things were super slow,

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:41.200
<v Speaker 1>you could always stop and switch to a different peer

0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.680
<v Speaker 1>on that network to see if maybe your connection to

0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>that peer was faster. Napster became famous for being a

0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:53.080
<v Speaker 1>hub of pirated music exchanges. Some users were ripping music

0:16:53.200 --> 0:16:55.600
<v Speaker 1>from their CDs, just putting those in the shared P

0:16:55.760 --> 0:16:58.760
<v Speaker 1>two P folder on their machines and then searching for

0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 1>files to fill out their collections while sharing their own.

0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>And this totally bypassed the traditional model of purchasing music

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.320
<v Speaker 1>from a retail establishment, and the music industry wasn't seeing

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:13.000
<v Speaker 1>penny one from these exchanges, and it indeed seemed as

0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:16.040
<v Speaker 1>though the sky would fall. Keep in mind, this is

0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:20.240
<v Speaker 1>before iTunes. Uh, there weren't that many companies that were

0:17:20.359 --> 0:17:24.400
<v Speaker 1>directly selling digital files to customers. The ones that were

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.200
<v Speaker 1>were kind of it was a pain in the butt

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:30.480
<v Speaker 1>to navigate through all of them, um like, because there

0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.239
<v Speaker 1>weren't There weren't sort of centralized stores that you can

0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:37.280
<v Speaker 1>go to like iTunes, so people were making do with

0:17:37.359 --> 0:17:40.600
<v Speaker 1>what they had and using ways to get around that.

0:17:40.680 --> 0:17:42.520
<v Speaker 1>Now I should also add, like, there's some people who

0:17:42.640 --> 0:17:45.560
<v Speaker 1>use peer to peer networks and torrent sites and stuff

0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:47.320
<v Speaker 1>like that, and all they want to do is just

0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.920
<v Speaker 1>get as much stuff for free as they possibly can,

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.000
<v Speaker 1>and that's their big thing. They just don't want to

0:17:53.040 --> 0:17:55.639
<v Speaker 1>pay for anything. There are others who are like, I

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.000
<v Speaker 1>would pay for this, but there's not really any way

0:17:58.000 --> 0:18:00.280
<v Speaker 1>I can do it, at least not easy way to

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.680
<v Speaker 1>do it, and so I have to do it this way.

0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:04.919
<v Speaker 1>And then there are yet others who are using it

0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:08.960
<v Speaker 1>as a statement against like late stage capitalism. Anyway, member

0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:11.959
<v Speaker 1>organizations in the r I double A went after Napster

0:18:12.320 --> 0:18:15.880
<v Speaker 1>as well as individual users, and we'll talk a bit

0:18:15.920 --> 0:18:19.080
<v Speaker 1>about what happened with that after we come back from

0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:29.760
<v Speaker 1>this quick break. Okay, So the r I double A

0:18:30.359 --> 0:18:36.000
<v Speaker 1>decides that Napster is a huge boogeyman, and also individual

0:18:36.440 --> 0:18:41.640
<v Speaker 1>users who were downloading UH files. They couldn't go after everybody, obviously,

0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:43.760
<v Speaker 1>but they could go after a few people and make

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:47.879
<v Speaker 1>some real big examples out of folks and scare the

0:18:47.920 --> 0:18:50.440
<v Speaker 1>heck out of other people who had been pirting music.

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.240
<v Speaker 1>There was a hail storm of lawsuits, with music companies

0:18:54.240 --> 0:18:59.400
<v Speaker 1>seeking huge amounts and damages, sometimes targeting extremely sympathetic individuals.

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:02.520
<v Speaker 1>There were cases where it was a young kid who

0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 1>was found at fault or grandparents or whatever. Not the

0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:07.960
<v Speaker 1>best way to win a pr battle, right, So the

0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.040
<v Speaker 1>whole affair really gave the r I double a black eye,

0:19:11.119 --> 0:19:14.679
<v Speaker 1>painted the organization as a greedy company or greedy organization

0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:19.640
<v Speaker 1>willing to financially ruin normal people for downloading a few songs.

0:19:19.960 --> 0:19:22.120
<v Speaker 1>Maybe if you added them all up, it would cost

0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.679
<v Speaker 1>a few hundred dollars to purchase, and yet they were

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.160
<v Speaker 1>being hit by massive, massive fines. To call it overkill

0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.600
<v Speaker 1>would be an understatement. By the way, the arguments weren't

0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:34.879
<v Speaker 1>helped when the US Government Accountability Office or g a O,

0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:39.560
<v Speaker 1>would later investigate claims that piracy had a quantifiable impact

0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.119
<v Speaker 1>on the entertainment industry as a whole. So the g

0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.320
<v Speaker 1>a o s findings essentially said, there's no way you

0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 1>can assess how much money was lost due to piracy,

0:19:49.880 --> 0:19:53.720
<v Speaker 1>because you can't just assume that for every illegal download

0:19:53.760 --> 0:19:57.240
<v Speaker 1>that existed you had a lost sale. Like that's the

0:19:57.280 --> 0:19:59.879
<v Speaker 1>only way in the classic sense, like if it's a

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.200
<v Speaker 1>physical piece of media, if someone walks into a store

0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.639
<v Speaker 1>and like steal some CDs and walks out, Yeah, you

0:20:06.680 --> 0:20:09.040
<v Speaker 1>had a physical thing there a right, Like the store

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 1>could say, hey, we are inventory shows that we should have,

0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:15.080
<v Speaker 1>you know, twenty copies of this Billy Joel album, but

0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:18.439
<v Speaker 1>we only have fifteen and we can't account for the

0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:21.159
<v Speaker 1>other five. I mean that's those are lost sales, Like

0:20:21.240 --> 0:20:24.640
<v Speaker 1>someone somewhere is eating that loss. But with digital files,

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:29.000
<v Speaker 1>it's obviously different, right, So in other words, I could

0:20:29.119 --> 0:20:32.760
<v Speaker 1>download an entire album or a movie or TV series

0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:35.920
<v Speaker 1>and maybe I'm not like super interested in it. I'm curious,

0:20:36.480 --> 0:20:38.639
<v Speaker 1>but not curious enough to actually go out and buy it,

0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:42.359
<v Speaker 1>So I just download it. I pired it. And in

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.720
<v Speaker 1>other words, like if I had not illegally downloaded the material,

0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:48.720
<v Speaker 1>if I just ignored it, well, I still wouldn't have

0:20:48.760 --> 0:20:51.720
<v Speaker 1>bought the thing. So there was no loss sale because

0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:53.960
<v Speaker 1>it wasn't gonna buy it anyway. That was the g

0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:57.000
<v Speaker 1>a o S. Point. They said, you cannot say that

0:20:57.080 --> 0:21:00.000
<v Speaker 1>for every pirated copy you lost out on a sale,

0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.959
<v Speaker 1>because that's just not how the world works. Also, there

0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:07.280
<v Speaker 1>are plenty of instances where people have downloaded something illegally

0:21:07.359 --> 0:21:10.159
<v Speaker 1>to sample it, and then they've gone out and purchased

0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the actual thing. So you can't look at as apples

0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 1>to apples, right because again, priortic copies and last sales

0:21:19.440 --> 0:21:24.200
<v Speaker 1>are not equivalent anyway. The trials of Napster, both literal,

0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:27.080
<v Speaker 1>literal and figurative, as well as similar P to P

0:21:27.240 --> 0:21:30.080
<v Speaker 1>services like lime Wire and kazab would set the stage

0:21:30.080 --> 0:21:32.320
<v Speaker 1>for what was to come next. And what was to

0:21:32.359 --> 0:21:37.840
<v Speaker 1>come next was BitTorrent. Now Napster had a relatively brief existence,

0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:39.879
<v Speaker 1>at least as far as peer to peer file sharing

0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:43.920
<v Speaker 1>services were concerned. Lawsuits pretty much forced Napster to shut

0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.920
<v Speaker 1>down by two thousand one two thousand two. The name

0:21:46.920 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 1>would persist and it became a brand, but it was

0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 1>no longer associated with peer to peer file sharing. Several

0:21:53.600 --> 0:21:56.719
<v Speaker 1>critics viewed the whole thing as an injustice because Napster

0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.880
<v Speaker 1>had developed technologies to cut back on a legal distribution

0:21:59.880 --> 0:22:03.679
<v Speaker 1>of copyrighted files. In other words, Napster was taking steps

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:07.399
<v Speaker 1>to try and prevent piracy across its platform, but the

0:22:07.400 --> 0:22:10.400
<v Speaker 1>courts were saying, well, unless it's a hundred percent effective,

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.560
<v Speaker 1>then it's not enough. That led Lawrence Lessig to say

0:22:14.640 --> 0:22:17.280
<v Speaker 1>that the courts were condemning file sharing as a whole,

0:22:17.480 --> 0:22:21.640
<v Speaker 1>not copyright infringement in particular. Essentially, that the courts were

0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:26.000
<v Speaker 1>trying to shut down an entire technology without any regard

0:22:26.119 --> 0:22:28.960
<v Speaker 1>for what that technology can do. And that was a

0:22:29.040 --> 0:22:32.400
<v Speaker 1>legit criticism. You know, while Napster was best known as

0:22:32.440 --> 0:22:35.080
<v Speaker 1>a hub for prior to music, the fact was that

0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:39.199
<v Speaker 1>peer to peer architecture is content agnostic. It's just a

0:22:39.240 --> 0:22:42.399
<v Speaker 1>way to distribute files throughout the network without you know,

0:22:42.560 --> 0:22:46.920
<v Speaker 1>too much hassle. Many folks essentially equated file sharing with piracy,

0:22:46.960 --> 0:22:50.040
<v Speaker 1>and that's just not accurate. There are plenty of programmers

0:22:50.040 --> 0:22:53.240
<v Speaker 1>who have created files intended for free distribution and appear

0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:55.719
<v Speaker 1>to peer network is a really effective way to do

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.480
<v Speaker 1>that at high speed these days, assuming you have access

0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.400
<v Speaker 1>to broad and it's not as big a deal as

0:23:02.400 --> 0:23:05.360
<v Speaker 1>it used to be. But back then, when download speeds

0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:08.080
<v Speaker 1>were a fraction of what you find in most places today,

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:12.919
<v Speaker 1>it really mattered. And this brings us to another American programmer.

0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:16.560
<v Speaker 1>His name is Bram Cohen. He grew up in Manhattan

0:23:16.560 --> 0:23:19.120
<v Speaker 1>and New York. He and I are actually the same age.

0:23:19.119 --> 0:23:21.320
<v Speaker 1>We were born the same year. But while I was

0:23:21.400 --> 0:23:24.160
<v Speaker 1>drawn to English lit in the theater, only to find

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.919
<v Speaker 1>myself professionally talking about tech, Cohen is in fact the

0:23:27.960 --> 0:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>real deal. He was fascinated with computers as a kid,

0:23:31.000 --> 0:23:33.879
<v Speaker 1>got into programming early on, went to college just for

0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.400
<v Speaker 1>a couple of years before he dropped out in entered

0:23:37.400 --> 0:23:40.280
<v Speaker 1>the workforce and joined various dot com companies in the

0:23:40.320 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 1>mid and late nineties. Now this was in the days

0:23:43.080 --> 0:23:46.560
<v Speaker 1>when the dot com bubble was still in the inflation period.

0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:49.400
<v Speaker 1>It wouldn't burst until like two thousand and two thousand one,

0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:53.480
<v Speaker 1>he worked for one outfit called mojo Nation that had

0:23:53.560 --> 0:23:57.280
<v Speaker 1>an interesting product. It was a project that would allow

0:23:57.280 --> 0:24:00.520
<v Speaker 1>people to take a large encrypted file and break that

0:24:00.600 --> 0:24:05.520
<v Speaker 1>large encrypted file into smaller encrypted chunks. Then they could

0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.920
<v Speaker 1>transfer those chunks too different computers running the same software

0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:12.400
<v Speaker 1>on the network, So you sort of have an ad

0:24:12.440 --> 0:24:16.560
<v Speaker 1>hot computer network with different computers holding different pieces of

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:19.560
<v Speaker 1>an encrypted puzzle. So if you wanted to download the

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.520
<v Speaker 1>encrypted file, you would actually be downloading chunks from different

0:24:23.520 --> 0:24:27.439
<v Speaker 1>computers to put it all together. While Cohen was frustrated

0:24:27.520 --> 0:24:30.680
<v Speaker 1>with the older file transfer methods, that meant you were

0:24:30.720 --> 0:24:32.960
<v Speaker 1>in for a slow experience if you need to transfer

0:24:33.000 --> 0:24:36.000
<v Speaker 1>a file of significant size, and he saw the potential

0:24:36.119 --> 0:24:39.720
<v Speaker 1>to use the mojo Nation approach of breaking files into

0:24:39.800 --> 0:24:44.240
<v Speaker 1>smaller chunks, but instead of distributing the chunks to different computers,

0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.399
<v Speaker 1>you could use this method to make file transfers faster

0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:52.320
<v Speaker 1>through a peer to peer network. So BitTorrent relies on

0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:55.440
<v Speaker 1>web clients, which is, you know, kind of like a

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:59.800
<v Speaker 1>web browser, So that's that's the easy way to think

0:24:59.840 --> 0:25:03.119
<v Speaker 1>of it. And also websites that act as a type

0:25:03.160 --> 0:25:07.480
<v Speaker 1>of index or directory So a torrent network has a

0:25:07.560 --> 0:25:11.200
<v Speaker 1>record of all the members of that network, like everyone

0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:15.800
<v Speaker 1>who's running that particular client software. These are peers in

0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.360
<v Speaker 1>other words, who have connected their machines to the system.

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:23.359
<v Speaker 1>This record includes which files are on which peers machines.

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:26.399
<v Speaker 1>So let's say we've got just twenty peers in this

0:25:26.480 --> 0:25:30.040
<v Speaker 1>network's very small network, and half of them have already

0:25:30.119 --> 0:25:34.000
<v Speaker 1>downloaded a particular file because it's pretty popular. The site

0:25:34.080 --> 0:25:37.520
<v Speaker 1>keeps track of that. It sees which of the peers

0:25:37.640 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>have that file available on their machines. So you search

0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:43.560
<v Speaker 1>for this file and you see it's on ten of

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:46.680
<v Speaker 1>the peers in this network, and you initiate a download.

0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Now you're unlike you know, a napster, You're not downloading

0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:54.960
<v Speaker 1>from a specific peer. You're not targeting a peer that's

0:25:55.000 --> 0:25:58.239
<v Speaker 1>near you and saying I want the file from that person. Uh.

0:25:58.359 --> 0:26:01.240
<v Speaker 1>These files are in chunks, and you can actually download

0:26:01.240 --> 0:26:04.560
<v Speaker 1>different chunks from different peers at the same time. That

0:26:04.640 --> 0:26:07.639
<v Speaker 1>really speeds up the download process. You're no longer dependent

0:26:07.720 --> 0:26:10.399
<v Speaker 1>upon a single source to send all of a file

0:26:10.480 --> 0:26:13.960
<v Speaker 1>to you. You're grabbing bits and pieces from different peers

0:26:14.000 --> 0:26:16.280
<v Speaker 1>on the network. So it makes things go much faster.

0:26:16.760 --> 0:26:19.560
<v Speaker 1>So let's say you want to download a freeware program

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.760
<v Speaker 1>that was a pretty large file. Traditionally, you would use

0:26:23.000 --> 0:26:26.080
<v Speaker 1>FTP to log into a server and transfer a file

0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.840
<v Speaker 1>from the server to your computer, and it would take

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:31.760
<v Speaker 1>as long as the weakest connection between you and that server.

0:26:32.320 --> 0:26:35.080
<v Speaker 1>But with a bit torrent network, you would connect to

0:26:35.240 --> 0:26:37.639
<v Speaker 1>a peer to peer network and search for a torrent

0:26:37.880 --> 0:26:41.480
<v Speaker 1>or record of that particular file, And instead of downloading

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:44.359
<v Speaker 1>the file directly from the website, you're connected to the

0:26:44.440 --> 0:26:47.800
<v Speaker 1>various peers in the network that have this exact file.

0:26:48.320 --> 0:26:50.800
<v Speaker 1>And since the file is now in pieces, your Torrent

0:26:50.840 --> 0:26:53.840
<v Speaker 1>client would grab some pieces from peer one, some pieces

0:26:53.880 --> 0:26:58.280
<v Speaker 1>from peer two, et cetera. This used way less bandwidth

0:26:58.359 --> 0:27:02.400
<v Speaker 1>than other methods of file transfers that sped things up considerably. Now,

0:27:02.480 --> 0:27:06.240
<v Speaker 1>upon being downloaded, the file becomes what is called a seed.

0:27:06.800 --> 0:27:09.040
<v Speaker 1>That means it would be a file that other peers

0:27:09.080 --> 0:27:12.639
<v Speaker 1>could access to download to their machines, and it's generally

0:27:12.680 --> 0:27:16.480
<v Speaker 1>considered good form to seed the files that you have downloaded.

0:27:16.880 --> 0:27:19.600
<v Speaker 1>You can take downloaded files and move them to another

0:27:19.640 --> 0:27:23.280
<v Speaker 1>folder and thus not seed the file any further, but

0:27:23.320 --> 0:27:26.919
<v Speaker 1>that's considered bad form, and some Torrent sites penalized users

0:27:27.200 --> 0:27:30.000
<v Speaker 1>who download as peers, but they do not seed files

0:27:30.040 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>after downloading. In fact, Cohen intended that to be a

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.120
<v Speaker 1>feature from the very beginning to avoid what was called leaching.

0:27:37.600 --> 0:27:40.400
<v Speaker 1>Leaching is when you are in a network like this

0:27:40.800 --> 0:27:43.120
<v Speaker 1>and you're just in it to download stuff, you're not

0:27:43.359 --> 0:27:47.040
<v Speaker 1>offering anything in return. So the way bit toward works

0:27:47.119 --> 0:27:49.600
<v Speaker 1>is that it rewards people who offer up files for

0:27:49.680 --> 0:27:53.960
<v Speaker 1>others to download by making their own download speeds faster.

0:27:54.160 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 1>So the more you share, the faster your future download

0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:59.320
<v Speaker 1>speeds will be. And he called it a tip for

0:27:59.400 --> 0:28:04.200
<v Speaker 1>tatsis them And again, there's nothing about this methodology itself

0:28:04.200 --> 0:28:06.960
<v Speaker 1>that is legal. So as long as the content moving

0:28:07.000 --> 0:28:11.960
<v Speaker 1>across the networks isn't you know, copyright copyrighted and that

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:15.960
<v Speaker 1>you're infringing on copyright, uh you know, or the creators

0:28:15.960 --> 0:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>have allowed for the free distribution of those files, well,

0:28:18.840 --> 0:28:21.959
<v Speaker 1>then this is just an effective way to distribute files

0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:25.320
<v Speaker 1>across large numbers of people. The problem comes when people

0:28:25.359 --> 0:28:27.960
<v Speaker 1>start using this method to distribute stuff that they don't

0:28:28.000 --> 0:28:31.760
<v Speaker 1>have the authority to replicate and distribute. And in fact,

0:28:31.840 --> 0:28:36.280
<v Speaker 1>bit torrent itself doesn't index torrent files. Rather various websites

0:28:36.320 --> 0:28:40.880
<v Speaker 1>have hosted torrent directories instead. These sites depend upon bit torrent,

0:28:40.920 --> 0:28:43.720
<v Speaker 1>but are not part of bit torrent, and so when

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:46.960
<v Speaker 1>the various entertainment industries started to come after this new threat,

0:28:47.320 --> 0:28:50.760
<v Speaker 1>they focused primarily on the index sites rather than the

0:28:50.840 --> 0:28:55.080
<v Speaker 1>protocol itself. A quick analogy, going after bit torrent would

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:57.640
<v Speaker 1>be kind of like going after a company that makes typewriters,

0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:01.080
<v Speaker 1>because someone could use a typewriter to about copies of

0:29:01.120 --> 0:29:05.400
<v Speaker 1>copyrighted works without permission, but it's not the typewriter company's

0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.239
<v Speaker 1>fault that a consumer used its product to do that.

0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:11.240
<v Speaker 1>The same basic argument kind of applies to stuff like

0:29:11.280 --> 0:29:14.160
<v Speaker 1>bit torrent. So bit torrent hit the scene around two

0:29:14.200 --> 0:29:17.600
<v Speaker 1>thousand one. Two years later in two thousand three, that's

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:21.320
<v Speaker 1>when we saw the anti copyright group called Pierre at

0:29:21.360 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>Biron or Bureau of Piracy launching the Pirate May. It

0:29:26.720 --> 0:29:29.240
<v Speaker 1>is one of those Torrent indexing sites I was talking

0:29:29.280 --> 0:29:32.520
<v Speaker 1>about just a moment ago. The founding of the organization

0:29:32.720 --> 0:29:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and the site followed the massive lawsuit against Napster as

0:29:36.920 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>well as a huge legal case in South Africa that

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>had nothing to do with music but everything to do

0:29:43.040 --> 0:29:46.720
<v Speaker 1>with intellectual property. In it the South African government was

0:29:46.760 --> 0:29:50.280
<v Speaker 1>pitted against the medical industry, Big Pharma, if you will.

0:29:51.080 --> 0:29:53.440
<v Speaker 1>At the center of that conflict was the practice of

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:57.600
<v Speaker 1>importing patented AIDS drugs from other countries without first getting

0:29:57.600 --> 0:30:01.600
<v Speaker 1>permission from the manufacturing companies. So, in other words, South

0:30:01.600 --> 0:30:05.720
<v Speaker 1>Africa could order drugs from these pharmaceutical companies, but they

0:30:05.760 --> 0:30:09.080
<v Speaker 1>would charge high amounts. Or they could order the same

0:30:09.160 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 1>drugs from other countries, but they were doing so outside

0:30:13.200 --> 0:30:16.360
<v Speaker 1>of the permission of the pharmaceutical companies. They could do

0:30:16.400 --> 0:30:19.479
<v Speaker 1>it for cheaper. Also, they were starting to produce some

0:30:19.560 --> 0:30:22.920
<v Speaker 1>of the drugs within South Africa without the permission from

0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Big Pharma. Nearly forty pharmaceutical companies joined in a class

0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:30.800
<v Speaker 1>action lawsuit against the South African government, and you know

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:34.760
<v Speaker 1>that was looking kind of rough, right, like this idea

0:30:34.880 --> 0:30:39.080
<v Speaker 1>of protecting intellectual property being somehow more important than the

0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:42.120
<v Speaker 1>lives of AIDS patients, right, That's that's how it was

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 1>being perceived. And in Sweden there was this growing group

0:30:45.440 --> 0:30:48.120
<v Speaker 1>of mostly young folks who solved these kinds of actions

0:30:48.160 --> 0:30:51.760
<v Speaker 1>as the height of capitalistic greed and oppression. The group,

0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:55.160
<v Speaker 1>which was loosely organized, was interested in the sharing of

0:30:55.200 --> 0:30:58.200
<v Speaker 1>information and culture. I actually don't want to try and

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:02.280
<v Speaker 1>summarize what the believed because it seems to me as

0:31:02.360 --> 0:31:06.480
<v Speaker 1>though it was more like an ongoing conversation with several

0:31:06.520 --> 0:31:09.440
<v Speaker 1>people who all had slightly different points of view, So

0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:12.480
<v Speaker 1>it would be a misrepresentation to say that there was

0:31:12.520 --> 0:31:16.400
<v Speaker 1>a single, unified, coherent philosophy. But I do think it's

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:19.520
<v Speaker 1>safe to say that most of the people involved felt

0:31:19.560 --> 0:31:22.440
<v Speaker 1>that copyright laws as a whole are kind of broken,

0:31:22.840 --> 0:31:26.360
<v Speaker 1>and the copyright system is broken, that they're more about

0:31:26.400 --> 0:31:30.240
<v Speaker 1>restricting access than guaranteeing a creator a chance to profit

0:31:30.280 --> 0:31:33.080
<v Speaker 1>from their work. In fact, some of the founders of

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:36.160
<v Speaker 1>the Pirate Bay have said that they think less attention

0:31:36.200 --> 0:31:39.200
<v Speaker 1>should have been granted towards copyright and more should have

0:31:39.200 --> 0:31:42.520
<v Speaker 1>been granted towards how do we compensate artists for their art,

0:31:43.600 --> 0:31:47.000
<v Speaker 1>and that you know, copyright really is more about restricting

0:31:47.000 --> 0:31:51.120
<v Speaker 1>access rather than guaranteeing a creator a chance to make money,

0:31:51.400 --> 0:31:53.600
<v Speaker 1>particularly in a world where the party is holding the

0:31:53.640 --> 0:31:57.560
<v Speaker 1>copyrights tend to be these massive companies, not you know,

0:31:57.640 --> 0:32:00.240
<v Speaker 1>inventors or artists or musicians. In fact, a lot of

0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:04.200
<v Speaker 1>this could also apply to patents. Honestly. In fact, I

0:32:04.240 --> 0:32:07.120
<v Speaker 1>can even make this personal. I'll tell you a personal

0:32:07.440 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 1>version of this. Let's talk about tech Stuff for a second.

0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.960
<v Speaker 1>I co created this podcast, tech Stuff with my original

0:32:14.000 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>co host, Chris Pallette, and this happened way back in

0:32:16.400 --> 0:32:19.239
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and eight. But I do not and have

0:32:19.440 --> 0:32:23.560
<v Speaker 1>never owned tech Stuff the podcast. I've been on every

0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:27.000
<v Speaker 1>single tech Stuff except for one. I handed the microphone

0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:30.520
<v Speaker 1>over to Lauren Vogelbaum for a single episode, and the

0:32:30.560 --> 0:32:34.000
<v Speaker 1>owner of the podcast has changed over time, but it

0:32:34.040 --> 0:32:36.920
<v Speaker 1>was never me. It started as how stuff Works dot

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:40.800
<v Speaker 1>com uh, and moved to Discovery Communications and then changed

0:32:40.800 --> 0:32:42.560
<v Speaker 1>hands a few other times before it became part of

0:32:42.600 --> 0:32:46.920
<v Speaker 1>iHeart Media. And yeah, I've written nearly every single episode,

0:32:46.920 --> 0:32:51.000
<v Speaker 1>and I've recorded nearly every single episode. It is my work,

0:32:51.120 --> 0:32:53.640
<v Speaker 1>it's my research, it's my point of view, and nearly

0:32:53.680 --> 0:32:57.200
<v Speaker 1>every episode that's published, But I do not own any

0:32:57.240 --> 0:32:59.800
<v Speaker 1>of that. I'm not the copyright holder for tech Stuff

0:33:00.440 --> 0:33:03.080
<v Speaker 1>that goes to the company. Now. To be clear, I

0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.160
<v Speaker 1>don't have a problem with this in my specific case,

0:33:06.600 --> 0:33:08.720
<v Speaker 1>because if it weren't for how Stuffworks dot Com, I

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:13.240
<v Speaker 1>probably wouldn't have gotten into podcasting, certainly not at that time. Anyway,

0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:15.040
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't have had the money to get together the

0:33:15.080 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 1>equipment back in two thousand and eight. I wouldn't have

0:33:17.320 --> 0:33:19.720
<v Speaker 1>had the time to learn all the editing tricks, and

0:33:19.920 --> 0:33:23.120
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't know where to host it. At the very least,

0:33:23.160 --> 0:33:25.520
<v Speaker 1>my entry into podcasting would have been delayed by several

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:28.360
<v Speaker 1>years had it not been for the company. And because

0:33:28.400 --> 0:33:31.680
<v Speaker 1>podcasting is my job and I work for a company,

0:33:31.720 --> 0:33:34.040
<v Speaker 1>I get a salary. There are tons of folks out

0:33:34.080 --> 0:33:36.880
<v Speaker 1>there who are into podcasting, and many of them are

0:33:36.960 --> 0:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>lucky enough if they are able to cover expenses, let

0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:42.640
<v Speaker 1>alone make a living from it. Sure there's some superstars

0:33:42.640 --> 0:33:46.520
<v Speaker 1>out there who are making crazy bank on podcasting. I'm

0:33:46.560 --> 0:33:49.960
<v Speaker 1>not one of them, but maybe one day. But most

0:33:50.040 --> 0:33:52.800
<v Speaker 1>folks do it as a hobby. Right, So I don't

0:33:52.840 --> 0:33:54.880
<v Speaker 1>own the show tech stuff, But on the other hand,

0:33:55.000 --> 0:33:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I can earn a living through that show. That's a

0:33:58.040 --> 0:34:01.080
<v Speaker 1>trade off. So for tons of art the only way

0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:04.800
<v Speaker 1>to even get into the mix is to partner up

0:34:04.800 --> 0:34:08.319
<v Speaker 1>with an established media company. First, the artists might make

0:34:08.440 --> 0:34:11.200
<v Speaker 1>all their own work, they might be solely responsible for

0:34:11.239 --> 0:34:14.840
<v Speaker 1>how it comes out, but the copyrights, well, most often

0:34:14.840 --> 0:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>those go to the company that the artist is signed with. Again,

0:34:17.840 --> 0:34:19.800
<v Speaker 1>it's a trade off. The artist is hoping for a

0:34:19.840 --> 0:34:22.520
<v Speaker 1>greater exposure and opportunities to make money and to make

0:34:22.560 --> 0:34:25.319
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is they make, and the company holds those

0:34:25.320 --> 0:34:28.480
<v Speaker 1>copyrights as part of company assets. It's part of the

0:34:28.520 --> 0:34:31.600
<v Speaker 1>stuff that makes the company profitable. But even when you

0:34:31.640 --> 0:34:34.040
<v Speaker 1>take all that into consideration, it's a bitter pill to

0:34:34.080 --> 0:34:36.520
<v Speaker 1>swallow to realize that the folks who are creating the

0:34:36.520 --> 0:34:40.800
<v Speaker 1>stuff we consume don't necessarily hold the rights to that stuff.

0:34:41.080 --> 0:34:43.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean, imagine walking up to a musician and saying,

0:34:43.760 --> 0:34:45.399
<v Speaker 1>I love that song you did, and I was kind

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:47.960
<v Speaker 1>of hoping I could sample it for this song idea

0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:51.680
<v Speaker 1>I have. And maybe the artist loves your idea and

0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.440
<v Speaker 1>they think it's cool and they're they're excited by it,

0:34:55.040 --> 0:34:57.600
<v Speaker 1>But they don't actually own the right to their own music,

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.840
<v Speaker 1>and they can't legally say, yeah, you can use my

0:35:01.040 --> 0:35:04.680
<v Speaker 1>work because they are not the one who owned the copyright.

0:35:05.280 --> 0:35:09.560
<v Speaker 1>For some folks, including folks in the Bureau of Piracy,

0:35:09.600 --> 0:35:13.239
<v Speaker 1>that was a big problem. We'll talk about it more

0:35:13.520 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 1>when we come back after this break. Okay, we talked

0:35:24.160 --> 0:35:26.400
<v Speaker 1>about the very tip of a huge iceberg when it

0:35:26.440 --> 0:35:30.240
<v Speaker 1>comes to copyright issues. There's also the problem that laws

0:35:30.400 --> 0:35:33.560
<v Speaker 1>very country to country, and that in countries like the US,

0:35:33.640 --> 0:35:37.239
<v Speaker 1>these powerful media companies have leveraged their influence on politics

0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:40.080
<v Speaker 1>to extend copyright protections to a point where it is

0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 1>very difficult to make use of a previous work that is,

0:35:44.080 --> 0:35:47.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, still within memory and as relevant without getting

0:35:47.880 --> 0:35:50.399
<v Speaker 1>into legal trouble. And as many people have pointed out,

0:35:50.480 --> 0:35:53.239
<v Speaker 1>this can severely impact creativity. I mean, let's face it,

0:35:53.280 --> 0:35:55.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean pretty much every creative effort is at least

0:35:56.120 --> 0:35:59.560
<v Speaker 1>in part inspired by stuff that came before it. But

0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 1>copy right could put a squeeze on that kind of thing,

0:36:02.280 --> 0:36:05.800
<v Speaker 1>especially if it extends too far. Now, whether the founders

0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:08.640
<v Speaker 1>of the Pirate Bay felt that they were crusaders against

0:36:08.719 --> 0:36:11.440
<v Speaker 1>an unfair system, or they just wanted to thumb their

0:36:11.480 --> 0:36:15.160
<v Speaker 1>noses at the establishment, or the healthy mixture of both,

0:36:15.320 --> 0:36:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't really know. I suspect there's a mix of

0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the two. But the Pirate Bay went online in two

0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:26.160
<v Speaker 1>thousand three and becomes a massive index for torrent files.

0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.160
<v Speaker 1>In fact, at certain points, the Pirate Bay was responsible

0:36:29.200 --> 0:36:32.480
<v Speaker 1>for around half of all torrent traffic on the Internet.

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Media companies, particularly in the United States, were champing at

0:36:36.239 --> 0:36:39.840
<v Speaker 1>the bit to get the site shut down the site's founders,

0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:43.160
<v Speaker 1>which included Frederick I'm gonna butcher these names too. By

0:36:43.200 --> 0:36:45.919
<v Speaker 1>the way, they're all Swedish, so bear with me. Here

0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:51.799
<v Speaker 1>we go, Frederick nig Gottfried's vat Ho Varg and Peter

0:36:51.960 --> 0:36:57.640
<v Speaker 1>sunde Uh. They maintained that the site had no illegal content.

0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.640
<v Speaker 1>It was an index. It was not a depot tory.

0:37:00.800 --> 0:37:04.000
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't hosting those files. It was just hosting an

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.839
<v Speaker 1>index of where you could find those files. Now that's

0:37:06.840 --> 0:37:09.520
<v Speaker 1>an important distinction because if you think of it that way,

0:37:09.560 --> 0:37:12.680
<v Speaker 1>the pirate Bay is kind of like Google search engine.

0:37:12.719 --> 0:37:15.399
<v Speaker 1>When you think about it, it's an index that keeps

0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:18.840
<v Speaker 1>track of where files are. You can search for certain files.

0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:21.160
<v Speaker 1>You can find a torrent that you know claims to

0:37:21.160 --> 0:37:23.319
<v Speaker 1>be the file that you want to download. That's an

0:37:23.320 --> 0:37:28.400
<v Speaker 1>important distinction to these sites can often include malware that's

0:37:29.120 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 1>posing as stuff you might want. But anyway, the pirate

0:37:32.520 --> 0:37:35.120
<v Speaker 1>Bay itself wasn't hosting those files. It was just keeping

0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:38.239
<v Speaker 1>track of where they all were. It was, however, also

0:37:38.320 --> 0:37:41.480
<v Speaker 1>using web advertising to pay for operations and to make

0:37:41.520 --> 0:37:44.280
<v Speaker 1>a profit. The pirate Bay was getting lots of traffic,

0:37:44.960 --> 0:37:47.919
<v Speaker 1>and that meant a lot of ad views, and that

0:37:48.200 --> 0:37:52.080
<v Speaker 1>really made the entertainment industry even angrier and gave them

0:37:52.320 --> 0:37:55.759
<v Speaker 1>what they felt like was an in road into their complaints.

0:37:56.120 --> 0:38:00.000
<v Speaker 1>So not only were these Swedish pirates facilitating the whole

0:38:00.120 --> 0:38:03.520
<v Speaker 1>sale theft of massive amounts of copyrighted material, they were

0:38:03.520 --> 0:38:06.799
<v Speaker 1>also making money off the whole darned thing. And that's

0:38:06.880 --> 0:38:09.200
<v Speaker 1>kind of what the media company's point of view was.

0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:11.920
<v Speaker 1>It was tricky for the companies to come after the

0:38:11.920 --> 0:38:14.840
<v Speaker 1>Pirate Bay though, because the site was hosted in Sweden

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and US law, even the US law that's backed by

0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.759
<v Speaker 1>powerful media companies, doesn't have much authority outside of the

0:38:21.800 --> 0:38:25.040
<v Speaker 1>United States. But the companies kept pushing, and they were

0:38:25.080 --> 0:38:28.640
<v Speaker 1>pressuring the United States government to in turn put pressure

0:38:28.640 --> 0:38:32.080
<v Speaker 1>on the Swedish government, and in two thousand six, Swedish

0:38:32.080 --> 0:38:35.640
<v Speaker 1>police raided an Internet service provider in Sweden called PRQ.

0:38:36.680 --> 0:38:39.759
<v Speaker 1>This was the provider that hosted the servers running the

0:38:39.800 --> 0:38:42.840
<v Speaker 1>Pirate Bay website. From why I understand, the raid shutdown

0:38:42.880 --> 0:38:45.960
<v Speaker 1>not just the Pirate Bay, but other PRQ customers as well,

0:38:46.440 --> 0:38:48.840
<v Speaker 1>which at the very least seems like a gross overreach

0:38:48.840 --> 0:38:52.080
<v Speaker 1>of police authority. The raid shut down the Pirate Bay

0:38:52.120 --> 0:38:55.600
<v Speaker 1>for three whole days, just three days. The pirate Bay

0:38:55.640 --> 0:38:58.560
<v Speaker 1>returned just a couple of days later, and the group

0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:01.960
<v Speaker 1>at least server Space them a sympathetic service provider in

0:39:02.520 --> 0:39:06.320
<v Speaker 1>in Europe, and the activity continued. But for the three

0:39:06.360 --> 0:39:08.719
<v Speaker 1>co founders, the law was still eager to get hold

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:12.400
<v Speaker 1>of them. In two thousand eight, the three Pirate Bay operators,

0:39:12.680 --> 0:39:15.800
<v Speaker 1>as well as a businessman named Carl Lundstrom who had

0:39:15.840 --> 0:39:18.360
<v Speaker 1>helped with servers and bandwidth and that kind of stuff

0:39:18.360 --> 0:39:21.160
<v Speaker 1>on the back end, they all faced charges of assisting

0:39:21.280 --> 0:39:25.720
<v Speaker 1>copyright infringement. The really was more like they were facilitating,

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 1>you know, other people being able to break the law

0:39:29.320 --> 0:39:32.799
<v Speaker 1>by having a website, I guess now. One of the

0:39:32.800 --> 0:39:35.240
<v Speaker 1>big arguments that the co founders made in the trial

0:39:35.400 --> 0:39:38.160
<v Speaker 1>was that their site was essentially just a blank slate.

0:39:38.800 --> 0:39:42.360
<v Speaker 1>They said, the content that shows up on the pirate Bay,

0:39:42.480 --> 0:39:45.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean, apart from the ads, only came from the

0:39:45.200 --> 0:39:48.880
<v Speaker 1>site's users. If the users were not seeding files for sharing,

0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:52.200
<v Speaker 1>there'd be nothing to index. The pirate Bay was truly

0:39:52.239 --> 0:39:56.560
<v Speaker 1>a user generated content site. They argued. They weren't the

0:39:56.560 --> 0:39:58.920
<v Speaker 1>ones putting the files up for sharing in the first place,

0:39:59.120 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 1>the users were, and that the demands from various copyright

0:40:03.000 --> 0:40:06.440
<v Speaker 1>holders should actually go to the people who uploaded those files,

0:40:06.480 --> 0:40:09.040
<v Speaker 1>not to the Pirate Day. You know, I said, you're

0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.839
<v Speaker 1>telling us to take this down, Well we can't. We

0:40:11.840 --> 0:40:14.320
<v Speaker 1>didn't put it up. We just have an index. You

0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:16.640
<v Speaker 1>should go after the person who put it up. The

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.279
<v Speaker 1>trial went on for quite some time, actually really only

0:40:19.360 --> 0:40:22.759
<v Speaker 1>nine days, but it felt like an eternity, and all

0:40:22.880 --> 0:40:26.120
<v Speaker 1>three of the co founders were found guilty in April

0:40:26.120 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 1>two thousand nine. They each received a prison sentence of

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.439
<v Speaker 1>one year and a fine that amounted to around three

0:40:31.480 --> 0:40:35.799
<v Speaker 1>point six million US dollars. They appealed that decision. That

0:40:35.880 --> 0:40:39.440
<v Speaker 1>appeal eventually led to a reduction in the sentence for

0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 1>everybody but varg who was ill during the appeals process

0:40:43.200 --> 0:40:46.200
<v Speaker 1>and was unable to attend, so his sentence just remained

0:40:46.200 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 1>the same, but the fine was actually increased to around

0:40:49.040 --> 0:40:52.760
<v Speaker 1>six point six million dollars. The three co founders, all

0:40:53.239 --> 0:40:55.360
<v Speaker 1>you know, kind of left Sweden before they could be

0:40:55.360 --> 0:40:58.160
<v Speaker 1>taken into custody, but they were all three eventually arrested

0:40:58.440 --> 0:41:00.600
<v Speaker 1>and served at least part of their sentence says before

0:41:00.640 --> 0:41:05.799
<v Speaker 1>they were released. But while the founders were prosecuted or persecuted.

0:41:05.800 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Depending upon your point of view, the Pirate Bay continued,

0:41:10.000 --> 0:41:14.120
<v Speaker 1>that doesn't mean it continued without further interest or interference

0:41:14.160 --> 0:41:17.640
<v Speaker 1>from the authorities. In two thousand and fourteen, Swedish police

0:41:17.760 --> 0:41:21.520
<v Speaker 1>rated a pirate based server room in Stockholm, Sweden, which

0:41:21.600 --> 0:41:25.600
<v Speaker 1>took a Pirate Bay portal offline temporarily. This was not

0:41:25.719 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 1>too long after hackers identifying themselves as the Guardians of

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:34.000
<v Speaker 1>the piece, had infiltrated Sony Pictures Company computer network, and

0:41:34.320 --> 0:41:37.600
<v Speaker 1>the hackers had stolen an enormous amount of information, including

0:41:38.320 --> 0:41:42.799
<v Speaker 1>unreleased or recently released movies uh and then subsequently some

0:41:42.840 --> 0:41:45.520
<v Speaker 1>of those started to pop up on Torrent index sites

0:41:45.560 --> 0:41:47.719
<v Speaker 1>like the Pirate Bay, so there was at least some

0:41:47.800 --> 0:41:53.920
<v Speaker 1>speculation that the Sony hacks led to an increased investigation

0:41:54.200 --> 0:41:59.920
<v Speaker 1>and interference with Torrent sites like the Pirate Bay. Anyway,

0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 1>the site was down, but it wasn't out. Administrators for

0:42:03.160 --> 0:42:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the site found other places to host it, eventually moving

0:42:05.760 --> 0:42:09.760
<v Speaker 1>to the Trabea network and making use of cloud Flares.

0:42:09.880 --> 0:42:14.120
<v Speaker 1>Reverse proxy product um. A reverse proxy describes the system

0:42:14.160 --> 0:42:17.800
<v Speaker 1>in which you using a client, contact a reverse proxy

0:42:17.880 --> 0:42:20.560
<v Speaker 1>server and you're asking for a file. Right. Let's say

0:42:20.560 --> 0:42:24.080
<v Speaker 1>that you're pulling up a file that's on this one server. Well,

0:42:24.080 --> 0:42:27.920
<v Speaker 1>the reverse proxy server doesn't actually host the file itself. Instead,

0:42:28.320 --> 0:42:31.040
<v Speaker 1>it pulls that information from a server that does host

0:42:31.080 --> 0:42:34.600
<v Speaker 1>the file. Then the reverse proxy server sends that information

0:42:34.640 --> 0:42:38.160
<v Speaker 1>to you, or more accurately, to your client. So from

0:42:38.200 --> 0:42:41.240
<v Speaker 1>the client perspective, it looks like the data is coming

0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:43.919
<v Speaker 1>straight from the reverse proxy server, like it lives there.

0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Because the client never has any direct content with the

0:42:47.239 --> 0:42:51.040
<v Speaker 1>server on the network that actually hosts that specific file.

0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:54.719
<v Speaker 1>It's it's a a level of protection for a network.

0:42:55.320 --> 0:42:58.239
<v Speaker 1>The pirate base still active today. Actually went on there

0:42:58.320 --> 0:43:01.160
<v Speaker 1>today to check out to see what kind of files

0:43:01.160 --> 0:43:03.520
<v Speaker 1>are in the top one. Uh, there's some stuff that

0:43:03.560 --> 0:43:06.560
<v Speaker 1>you would expect, like porn. There's a lot of porn

0:43:06.600 --> 0:43:09.719
<v Speaker 1>on the pirate Bay. But there were also big name

0:43:09.760 --> 0:43:12.760
<v Speaker 1>movies that were on there, like the Lace, James Bond

0:43:12.800 --> 0:43:16.239
<v Speaker 1>film The Eternals was on their shan Chi was on there.

0:43:17.320 --> 0:43:20.359
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure if Hollywood were more active right now, if

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:22.400
<v Speaker 1>it weren't a pandemic, there'll be a lot more of

0:43:22.400 --> 0:43:24.799
<v Speaker 1>those kind of things popping up on that list. But yeah,

0:43:24.840 --> 0:43:27.560
<v Speaker 1>you get the idea. As for what I think about

0:43:27.560 --> 0:43:31.120
<v Speaker 1>all this well, I kind of am an agreement that

0:43:31.160 --> 0:43:35.279
<v Speaker 1>copyright law and the state of copyrights is broken. I

0:43:35.320 --> 0:43:38.880
<v Speaker 1>think way too much power falls into the hands of

0:43:38.920 --> 0:43:43.400
<v Speaker 1>big media companies. I realized that it's kind of interesting

0:43:43.440 --> 0:43:45.480
<v Speaker 1>for me to say that as an employee of a

0:43:45.480 --> 0:43:47.839
<v Speaker 1>big media company, but that's just how I feel like.

0:43:47.880 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the folks who are ultimately responsible for

0:43:51.360 --> 0:43:55.439
<v Speaker 1>making the stuff we love uh end up having very

0:43:55.480 --> 0:43:58.520
<v Speaker 1>little ownership of that stuff in most cases. I mean,

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:02.280
<v Speaker 1>you do hear about people going independent, going with independent

0:44:02.360 --> 0:44:05.200
<v Speaker 1>labels where they have more ownership of their stuff. That's great,

0:44:05.800 --> 0:44:08.960
<v Speaker 1>but you know, because of the way the world works,

0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:13.120
<v Speaker 1>these large companies have a lot of power and influence

0:44:13.120 --> 0:44:15.560
<v Speaker 1>in the ability to get stuff in front of people.

0:44:16.120 --> 0:44:20.200
<v Speaker 1>The Internet has gone a long way to undermining that,

0:44:20.320 --> 0:44:21.879
<v Speaker 1>which is one of the reasons why I think these

0:44:21.920 --> 0:44:26.480
<v Speaker 1>companies have gone so hard against you know, file sharing

0:44:26.520 --> 0:44:30.160
<v Speaker 1>sites and even individuals. It's because they perceive that that

0:44:30.280 --> 0:44:32.680
<v Speaker 1>is in fact a threat. And and it's also the

0:44:32.760 --> 0:44:35.920
<v Speaker 1>reason why, like the people behind the Pirate Bay were

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:40.520
<v Speaker 1>interested in the first place, because it potentially is an

0:44:40.640 --> 0:44:43.640
<v Speaker 1>upset of a system that has placed an enormous amount

0:44:43.640 --> 0:44:48.000
<v Speaker 1>of power in a relatively small number of companies and

0:44:48.080 --> 0:44:52.040
<v Speaker 1>could rather distribute that power to the people who are

0:44:52.080 --> 0:44:56.280
<v Speaker 1>actually making the stuff and potentially benefiting folks who otherwise

0:44:56.280 --> 0:45:00.279
<v Speaker 1>would never be able to experience that stuff. Go to

0:45:00.920 --> 0:45:05.279
<v Speaker 1>the story about the AIDS medication in South Africa, Like,

0:45:05.360 --> 0:45:08.200
<v Speaker 1>it's hard to make an argument in support of the

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:13.839
<v Speaker 1>pharmaceutical companies when the outcome of that argument is I'm

0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:16.000
<v Speaker 1>sorry that you can't afford to keep you the people

0:45:16.000 --> 0:45:19.160
<v Speaker 1>in your country alive, right, Like, that's that's kind of

0:45:19.160 --> 0:45:20.879
<v Speaker 1>how you can frame that argument. And I know that's

0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:23.560
<v Speaker 1>not how the pharmaceutical companies would frame it. Of course

0:45:23.600 --> 0:45:27.160
<v Speaker 1>they wouldn't. They would say, we have a product, there's

0:45:27.200 --> 0:45:29.239
<v Speaker 1>a price for it, and the way you get the

0:45:29.239 --> 0:45:32.399
<v Speaker 1>product as you pay the price. But you know, it's

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:36.680
<v Speaker 1>you can't deal in that level of abstraction and ignore

0:45:36.800 --> 0:45:42.040
<v Speaker 1>the real world consequences. That's kind of my perspective on it. Um.

0:45:42.760 --> 0:45:46.320
<v Speaker 1>But you know that's that's again my opinion. And I'm

0:45:46.360 --> 0:45:51.160
<v Speaker 1>not even suggesting that my opinion is right. It could

0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:54.600
<v Speaker 1>be that I am completely off base. Moreover, like, you know,

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:58.720
<v Speaker 1>my thoughts on this can change as my experiences change.

0:45:59.160 --> 0:46:02.320
<v Speaker 1>So if you are someone who is you know, staunchly

0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:06.239
<v Speaker 1>in supportive copyright. I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying

0:46:06.280 --> 0:46:08.560
<v Speaker 1>that I don't necessarily agree with you, but doesn't mean

0:46:08.560 --> 0:46:10.879
<v Speaker 1>you're wrong. It just means I have a different point

0:46:10.880 --> 0:46:14.359
<v Speaker 1>of view on this particular issue. If you're someone who

0:46:14.400 --> 0:46:17.959
<v Speaker 1>just pirates everything you don't buy anything, ever, I don't

0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:22.399
<v Speaker 1>agree with you either as someone who uh I mean

0:46:22.440 --> 0:46:26.719
<v Speaker 1>like goodness knows. Back in my my shady past, I

0:46:27.120 --> 0:46:29.400
<v Speaker 1>downloaded more than a few things that I didn't pay for.

0:46:29.920 --> 0:46:32.279
<v Speaker 1>In some cases it was because I literally could not

0:46:32.360 --> 0:46:34.400
<v Speaker 1>get access to it in the United States because it

0:46:34.440 --> 0:46:36.919
<v Speaker 1>wasn't for sale. And I did go back and buy

0:46:36.920 --> 0:46:40.719
<v Speaker 1>a lot of that stuff later. These days, I work

0:46:40.800 --> 0:46:43.719
<v Speaker 1>under the opinion that if I cannot afford it, or

0:46:43.760 --> 0:46:46.640
<v Speaker 1>if I cannot find it, I just have to deal

0:46:46.680 --> 0:46:49.520
<v Speaker 1>with that. Like, just because something exists doesn't mean I

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:53.800
<v Speaker 1>have a right to access it. But it does also

0:46:53.920 --> 0:46:57.520
<v Speaker 1>tell me that, you know, there are better ways for

0:46:57.640 --> 0:47:00.400
<v Speaker 1>us to come to, ways to to make stuff pressible

0:47:00.840 --> 0:47:04.560
<v Speaker 1>and to compensate people for doing so, like both the

0:47:04.560 --> 0:47:06.480
<v Speaker 1>people who create the stuff and the people who make

0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:12.040
<v Speaker 1>it accessible. Um, and that copyright is probably not going

0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:17.239
<v Speaker 1>to be that way at least not forever so interesting

0:47:17.520 --> 0:47:21.160
<v Speaker 1>interesting story and if you have any suggestions for topics

0:47:21.200 --> 0:47:23.280
<v Speaker 1>I should cover in future episodes of tech Stuff, please

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:25.120
<v Speaker 1>reach out to me. The best way to do that

0:47:25.160 --> 0:47:27.560
<v Speaker 1>as on Twitter. The handle for the show is tech

0:47:27.760 --> 0:47:31.120
<v Speaker 1>Stuff H s W and I'll talk to you again

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:39.800
<v Speaker 1>really soon. Text Stuff is an I Heart Radio production.

0:47:40.040 --> 0:47:42.880
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the i

0:47:42.960 --> 0:47:46.200
<v Speaker 1>Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

0:47:46.239 --> 0:47:47.200
<v Speaker 1>your favorite shows,