1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: Bill Elon Musk is now the richest person on the planet. 3 00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 3: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 4 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:22,240 Speaker 3: controlled by one man. 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 4: Well, he's a legitimate super genius. I mean legitimate. 6 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 5: He says he's always voted for Democrats, but this year 7 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 5: it will be different. 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 6: He'll vote Republican. 9 00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:33,520 Speaker 2: on him. 11 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 4: Alon Musk is. 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 6: A scam artist and he's done nothing. 13 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 5: Anything he does, he's fascinating people. Welcome to Elon Ing, 14 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 5: Bloomberg's weekly podcast about Elon Musk. It's Tuesday, July sixteenth. 15 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:01,000 Speaker 5: I'm your host, David Papadopoulos. Well, we debated coming to 16 00:01:01,040 --> 00:01:03,760 Speaker 5: you late Friday night for a discussion about what, at 17 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 5: that point felt like the most important news of the weekend, 18 00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 5: a Bloomberg exclusive that Elon was donating to a Republican 19 00:01:10,680 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 5: super pac supporting Donald Trump. But then on Saturday, there 20 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 5: was an assassination attempt on Donald Trump, and minutes later 21 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 5: a full throated Trump endorsement from Musk. And on Monday, 22 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 5: as the Republican National Convention kicked off and Trump made 23 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:30,640 Speaker 5: his first post shooting appearance, a figure emerged on those 24 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 5: Musk donations, a cool forty five million dollars every month. 25 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 5: To recap and comprehend these stunning events, I'm joined by 26 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:44,400 Speaker 5: our all star regulars, Dana Hall and Max Chapkin. Hey, Hey, David, 27 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 5: and we'll be joined in a little bit by Brad Stone, 28 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 5: editor of BusinessWeek, which just published an exclusive sit down 29 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 5: interview with Donald Trump. Dana take us through chronologically a 30 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 5: bit of the TikTok here. Let's go back to Friday 31 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 5: night to our scoop, and then walk us through the 32 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 5: phrenetic series of events over the weekend into yesterday. 33 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,639 Speaker 1: Musk has all but endorsed Trump four months now on 34 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,800 Speaker 1: X and taken lots of potshots at Joe Biden. 35 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:14,079 Speaker 6: And the big question was. 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,120 Speaker 1: How much money is Elon going to put into this 37 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: race and if so when? And on Friday night, our 38 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: colleagues in Washington, Jennifer Jacobs and Bill Allison, had this 39 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:27,040 Speaker 1: exclusive report that Musk was donating to America Pack, which 40 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:29,880 Speaker 1: is this big super pack that a lot of the 41 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 1: tech people are behind and a lot of Musk's friends 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: are behind. Then on Saturday we had the assassination temp 43 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: very quickly after this attempt like, Musk comes out with 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 1: this full throated endorsement of Trump on X and then 45 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: yesterday reporting emerged that the dollar amount is roughly forty 46 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 1: five million dollars a month, or about one hundred and 47 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: eighty million dollars total through the campaign. To be clear, 48 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 1: Musk has not actually donated yet. We're not going to 49 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,799 Speaker 1: see the filing from the FAC until the October deadline, 50 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: but that is apparently what he has pledged now. 51 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 5: Max Musk initially responded to that report of forty five 52 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:12,280 Speaker 5: million dollars a month one hundred and eighty million total 53 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 5: by tweeting some iteration of fake news. But our senses 54 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 5: that number is legit. We it looks like we ourselves 55 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 5: have also followed and corroborated the journals report. 56 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, a couple of things. 57 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 7: One is that you know, Elon Musk has a long 58 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 7: history of making kind of big claims about amounts of 59 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:34,839 Speaker 7: money that he's gonna give or donate. So I think 60 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 7: we should take this all with like a little bit 61 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 7: of grain of salt, Like he is a boastful guy, 62 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 7: he's larger than life. I think we need to wait 63 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:43,440 Speaker 7: until we see you. 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 5: Want to apply a discount rate to that one hundred 65 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,559 Speaker 5: and eighty million, we're taking it down to like eighteen. Yeah, 66 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 5: like a stripped the zero. 67 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:52,640 Speaker 7: That said, it appears he has made a donation, although 68 00:03:52,680 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 7: we won't know for sure until we see it in 69 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 7: the federal filing. So the filings that are out only 70 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,280 Speaker 7: cover to June. Supposedly this donation was made in July, 71 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 7: so we don't know for sure, but it seems like 72 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 7: we're talking about a very substantial donation. One hundred and 73 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 7: eighty million dollars or anything close to that would be enormous. 74 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 5: So Dan, whether the numbers ultimately proves to be one 75 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,479 Speaker 5: eighty or something slightly less, it is still ultimately an 76 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 5: enormous investment by the Musk Empire and Trump two point zero. 77 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:22,320 Speaker 4: Oh. 78 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 6: Absolutely. 79 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: And it's really rare for the CEO of a consumer 80 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: facing product like cars to be this active in a 81 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 1: presidential cycle, particularly when Tesla's consumer base for years had 82 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 1: been typically like liberal leaning people who lived on the coasts, 83 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: and so what this means for kind of Tesla's brand 84 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: going forward is super interesting. I'm also just curious about, like, 85 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: where is Musk getting this money? The guy is not 86 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 1: famously liquid. I mean, if you look at Tesla's proxy, 87 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 1: he basically has like pledged his Tesla's shares against his 88 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 1: own personal indebtedness. It's not clear to me where this 89 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: forty five million dollars a month is actually coming from. 90 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: Is it from X dot AI? Is it against X? 91 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: Is he borrowing from SpaceX? Like, there's a real question 92 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: here about where does this cash come? 93 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 5: Right? So, Dan, I get the liquid part that he's 94 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 5: not the most liquid guyer's money. His assets aren't the 95 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,359 Speaker 5: most liquid assets in the world. But you're telling me 96 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:24,720 Speaker 5: that a guy that's got two hundred billion dollars or 97 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 5: so can't come up with forty five million dollars a month. 98 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: What I'm saying is that his wealth is largely based 99 00:05:31,000 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 1: on his Tesla stock and it's it's paper money. I'm 100 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:37,160 Speaker 1: just questioning whether he's got to sell shares in one 101 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: of his companies in order to access this money. 102 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:41,880 Speaker 6: Yeah, he's he's the richest person in the world. 103 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: He's got assets, but he doesn't have like millions of 104 00:05:45,400 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: dollars sitting in cash in a bank account as far 105 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:48,359 Speaker 1: as I know. 106 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:50,880 Speaker 5: But part of me suspects that he's feeling a little 107 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,800 Speaker 5: bit the Tesla rally here Max that the stock is 108 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 5: up a ton, and I think he's feeling a little 109 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 5: flush a and then b yeah, sure it might not 110 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 5: be super liquid. It's tied up up in Tesla's stock 111 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,919 Speaker 5: and other things, but he can borrow against that stock. 112 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 7: Yeah, And you know the interesting thing, Tesla stock's been rallying, 113 00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 7: was rallying again on Monday yesterday as we're recording, despite 114 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 7: some some sort of questionable news, and it does seem 115 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:18,599 Speaker 7: like there's a chance that Tesla will trade like a 116 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 7: Trump meme stock, and so in other words, it's there 117 00:06:21,560 --> 00:06:24,320 Speaker 7: could be some kind of synergy happening here where in 118 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 7: making this donation to Trump and becoming a big Trump 119 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 7: supporter as Trump does well, like on Monday, the stock 120 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 7: of truth Social went way up, you know on on 121 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:35,920 Speaker 7: Bloomberg TV and our colleagues in markets talking about the 122 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,120 Speaker 7: so called Trump trade, and so you could see a 123 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 7: situation where it creates a little bit of momentum behind 124 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 7: Tesla that he can then use to of course donate 125 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 7: to the former president. By the way, just looked, it 126 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 7: would put him in the top five of donors. 127 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,120 Speaker 5: Probably a donation that large, and it. 128 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,520 Speaker 7: Could depending on who donates what I mean, he could 129 00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 7: end up being the biggest donor. 130 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 5: But that's a super interesting point, right that Tesla has 131 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 5: always been backed by to a certain degree, by institutional investors. 132 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 5: It's a very large company that produces a lot of 133 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 5: cars a year and so on and so forth, but 134 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 5: it's always had a certain memestock feel to it a 135 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 5: bit in the sense that the Elon fanboys, that retail crowd. 136 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 5: So goes this theory that as he hitches his wagon 137 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 5: that much more closely to Trump, the memestock element of 138 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 5: it gets raised to the second power. 139 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 2: No. 140 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:26,400 Speaker 7: And the thing is, we saw that in the endorsement. 141 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 7: So it's kind of head scratching that Elon would choose 142 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 7: this somber, very difficult, very upsetting moment, the attempted assassination 143 00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:39,320 Speaker 7: of a former president at a rally, to give his endorsement. 144 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 7: But Elon Musk is somebody, right who likes to kind 145 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 7: of be part of whatever is trending, and in that sense, 146 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 7: piggybacking on this news or inserting himself in this news 147 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 7: is totally in character. He likes to be in the 148 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 7: middle of where he sees the vibes being And when 149 00:07:58,120 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 7: you look at that endorsement. 150 00:07:59,160 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 5: It is. 151 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: It's like a vibes thing. 152 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 7: He's like looking at this defiant pose of the former 153 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,240 Speaker 7: president and saying, you know that that looks cool, and 154 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 7: in some sense basing his endorsement on that. 155 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, Dana, you've been of course covering Elon for a 156 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 5: long time. What did you make of that instantaneous endorsement. 157 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,840 Speaker 1: Well, to Max's point, I mean, Musk loves to be 158 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:23,800 Speaker 1: the main character. And Saturday was a day when the 159 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:26,680 Speaker 1: news of the assassination attempt kind of ricocheted around the 160 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: world and a lot of people were frankly flocking to 161 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: social media to get updates, and engagement was very high 162 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 1: on all social platforms. And what better day to kind 163 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:39,599 Speaker 1: of announce that you're endorsing the man who just survived 164 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 1: a shooting attempt than that day. And so I think 165 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,920 Speaker 1: it was very shrewd of Musk to do it on 166 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: that day. He kind of got the most bang for 167 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 1: his buck in terms of engagement, in terms of publicity, 168 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: and he's always been very very smart about kind of 169 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,760 Speaker 1: creating news cycles and creating narratives and getting attention. 170 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,839 Speaker 7: To be fair to Musk, like, I'm sure if he 171 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 7: were sitting here he would say that it wasn't about 172 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 7: it wasn't a cynical calculation. I was supporting somebody who 173 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 7: I see as courageous, who's under attack, Like it was 174 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 7: a question of solidarity. And I'm not sure he is, like, 175 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 7: like there are social if you're like a social media 176 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,480 Speaker 7: manager at like PepsiCo or something, you were literally like 177 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 7: looking at the trending list and trying to figure out, 178 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 7: is there an opportunity here to promote my brand? I'm 179 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 7: not sure that Elon Musk is really doing that. I 180 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 7: think it's just sort of an innate understanding of like 181 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 7: how news cycles worth. The other thing is, I'm not 182 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,760 Speaker 7: sure this was like a totally savvy political move. You 183 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 7: kind of want to make the endorsement at a moment 184 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 7: where it's going to be the big story, and Elon 185 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 7: Musk managed to do it at a moment where it 186 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 7: was almost like an afterthought. I mean, you have an 187 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 7: assassination attempt, you have the RNC how you know, there's 188 00:09:43,440 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 7: a lot going on. So in a lot of ways, 189 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,640 Speaker 7: I think this endorsement kind of actually got lost in 190 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 7: what seemed like, you know, a bigger story. 191 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, And I just got to say whether it was 192 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 5: ultimately savvy or not for him. It's certainly at least 193 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,160 Speaker 5: from from from where I sit. In the way I 194 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 5: saw it, it struck me as odd, right, and just 195 00:10:04,800 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 5: like I don't know, like these things are playing out 196 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 5: in real time, you know, the former president's life. It 197 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 5: seemed to be okay and fine, but like just let 198 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,559 Speaker 5: things play out. But Max, let me ask you this though, 199 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 5: because it seems like Musk's fingerprints are really all over 200 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:28,559 Speaker 5: this Republican ticket right now. The cash he's giving Trump, 201 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:33,640 Speaker 5: the endorsement he gave Trump, and apparently from what we're 202 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,960 Speaker 5: seeing and reporting, the role he played in getting JD 203 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 5: Vance on the ticket as the VP candidate. He's silently 204 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 5: playing kingmaker of sorts here. 205 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 7: Yeah, he's trying to. He is in many ways at 206 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 7: odds with Joe Biden. His political evolution has moved towards Trump. 207 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 7: And when you look at that the Republican platform, like 208 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 7: what is being promoted at the RNC. You know, in 209 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 7: the innovation column there are like three items, two of 210 00:11:01,760 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 7: which are pet projects of Elon Musk. One is about 211 00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 7: anti woke AI and and and developing AI in a 212 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 7: way that you know, it's it's very Musky and in 213 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 7: the language and the other is commercial space. So like 214 00:11:15,679 --> 00:11:20,679 Speaker 7: he is, he does seem to be potentially influencingform. Yeah, 215 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:23,679 Speaker 7: and now Trump, of course is very can be very transactional. 216 00:11:23,720 --> 00:11:26,520 Speaker 7: Also historically has been a bit unreliable. So we'll see 217 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:29,240 Speaker 7: how this all plays out, but he does seem to 218 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,439 Speaker 7: be in a position of of real influence at the moment. 219 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 5: If Trump loses, how big a black eye is this 220 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 5: for him? And how bad is this for the Musk empire? 221 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: That it's very bad? 222 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 7: And I mean, you know, I think I think Elon Musk, 223 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 7: you know, right now we're talking about Oh, he looks 224 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:52,959 Speaker 7: like such a political genius, right he he got behind 225 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 7: Trump early and he's backing a winning ticket. He's also like, 226 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 7: we didn't even talk about this, but like the media 227 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 7: landscape has really shifted to Elon Musk's X feed. But 228 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 7: that their cases is ugly. He's being investigated, as Dana said, 229 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 7: by numerous Biden agencies and White, you know, numerous federal agencies. 230 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 7: There's no reason to think that scrutiny would stop, and 231 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 7: you know it. 232 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 5: Would, but it wouldn't stop. But they wouldn't necessarily like 233 00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 5: ramp up their probes, because you know, he tried to 234 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 5: really tip the election in the Republican's face. 235 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think the government would ever ever. 236 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 7: I mean, you're telling me that sometimes federal agencies are 237 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 7: politically motivated. To Dadad No, I mean, yeah, I think 238 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 7: it's I think that if I were Elon Musk, I 239 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 7: would be very worried about a Biden win, and I 240 00:12:43,360 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 7: think that concern would grow. I mean, right now it 241 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 7: feels like very much a hypothetical fear. But if Biden 242 00:12:50,679 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 7: actually took White House or some other Democrat or some 243 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,839 Speaker 7: other Democrat, yeah, I mean, he is a guy who 244 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,640 Speaker 7: depends on government contracts and who has numerous humorous run 245 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:01,880 Speaker 7: ins with federal agencies. 246 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: I don't know. 247 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 7: I'd rather be on the good side of the boss 248 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 7: of that administration. 249 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 5: Okay, I want to bring in now Bradstone, the editor 250 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 5: of BusinessWeek. 251 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 4: He Loow Brad Hi, David. 252 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:22,480 Speaker 5: So, Brad, you just interviewed Donald Trump for a piece 253 00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 5: that's going to run on the cover of the magazine, 254 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 5: and you've met Elon and know him a bit for starters, 255 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,600 Speaker 5: tells you know what did the two men have in common? 256 00:13:34,240 --> 00:13:37,480 Speaker 3: Well, first, David, let me put the interview with Trump 257 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 3: in the timeline, because so much has happened. I went 258 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,320 Speaker 3: down to mar A Lago with my colleagues Nancy Cook, 259 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 3: Josh Green, and Mario Parker on June twenty fifth, So 260 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 3: that is the calm before the storm. It's two days 261 00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 3: before the presidential debate, about ten days before the assassination attempt. 262 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 3: Trump was in great form, personable, definitely already writing a 263 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 3: sort of sense of optimism in the campaign. I think, 264 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: you know, there are a couple of superficial similarities to 265 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 3: Elon obviously, the same healthy sense of self regard, using 266 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 3: some trotting out some of the some of the greatest hits, 267 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 3: the jokes that he likes to reuse. In Trump's case, 268 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:20,960 Speaker 3: it was only overweight people drink diet coke. More meaningfully, 269 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,120 Speaker 3: you know, they both have this sort of deep sense 270 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: of grievance, like this feeling like they've been injured by 271 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: political opposition or investigative reporting and as a result try 272 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 3: to delegitimize the news industry. So you know, Trump was 273 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: smarting from reports of his behavior or reception at the 274 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:44,359 Speaker 3: business roundtable, still grieving from the Congressional Committee into the investigation. 275 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 3: Into January sixth. In Elon's case, obviously you're very familiar 276 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 3: like investigative reporting into the culture at SpaceX, the environmental 277 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 3: impact of his efforts, both of them doing everything they 278 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 3: can to delegitimize the media. And the second thing I 279 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 3: would say is is like they both have a very 280 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 3: similar embrace of let's call them controversial pet causes. In 281 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 3: Elon's cases, Dana has reported this embrace of declining birth 282 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: rates as one of the great threats to civilization. And 283 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 3: then in Trump's case, and we of course got an 284 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 3: earful immigration and the idea that criminals are pouring into 285 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: the country and stealing us jobs. Very similar in that respect. 286 00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:27,080 Speaker 5: Yeah, So these two men have had a rocky past. 287 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 5: They've had some moments where they were where they were 288 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 5: buddies and allies of sorts, certainly towards the beginning of 289 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,880 Speaker 5: the Trump presidency back in seventeen. Then as the Trump 290 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,680 Speaker 5: presidency comes to an end and in the wake of 291 00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 5: January sixth and all that and spilling into twenty twenty two, 292 00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 5: they really get into a pretty public feud. You know, 293 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,000 Speaker 5: at one point, you know, Trump says Musk is just 294 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 5: another bullshit artist. Musk then fired back saying Trump was 295 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 5: too old to be president and he should just to 296 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 5: hang up his hat and sail into the sunset. Trump 297 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,880 Speaker 5: then responds with one of his favorite classic lines, you 298 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 5: were just mentioning lines he likes, Brad and this is 299 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 5: one of his all time favorites, where he says that 300 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 5: I could have said to them, drop to your knees 301 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 5: and beg and he would have done it. So I guess, 302 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,000 Speaker 5: I ask you, if this is the past they've had, 303 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 5: is now going to be any different? Do they manage 304 00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 5: to sustain the relationship this time around? 305 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 3: I think so, and maybe Dana and Maxwell disagree. But 306 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 3: Elon came up about ninety seconds into our interview with 307 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 3: McDonald Trump. We asked President Trump had President Biden done 308 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 3: anything good with the economy, And we're going to publish 309 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 3: the transcript so you can see his kind of meandering answer, 310 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:45,880 Speaker 3: but essentially Trump said he'd love to credit President Biden, 311 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 3: but he couldn't. And then he immediately started talking about 312 00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 3: EV's and the Biden administration's kind of EV incentives, and 313 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 3: it was a sort of tepid attack on EV's, but 314 00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:01,680 Speaker 3: essentially he said, you can't have one hundred percent of 315 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,080 Speaker 3: your cards being electric. We can't go all in, which 316 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 3: of course is not what the Biden administration is doing. 317 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 3: But he made a point to say, I love Elon. 318 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 3: Elon is fantastic, and I think it goes to the 319 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 3: heart of this alliance between these two men, this opportunistic 320 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 3: alliance where they're both getting something out of the relationship. 321 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,720 Speaker 3: You know, the first go round and when Musk left 322 00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:26,359 Speaker 3: the President's Business Council after Trump took the US out 323 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,840 Speaker 3: of the Paris Climate Accords, there wasn't an alliance there. 324 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: There was sort of a tenuous in interaction. But you know, 325 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 3: Musk is all in for Trump. He does not like 326 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 3: to be wrong. He does not like to retreat on 327 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 3: things that he's you know, late late at stake in 328 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:43,159 Speaker 3: the ground on Trump is his candidate Trump obviously, you know, 329 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 3: one of his great political appeals to wealthy people and 330 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 3: companies is his flexibility, let's call it. And I think 331 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,480 Speaker 3: Musk feels like his contribution can be reflected in policy 332 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 3: and the platform, as Max said, and so I think 333 00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:00,600 Speaker 3: that this time it's an opportunistic lie all and were 334 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 3: unlikely to see a retreat from either. 335 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 7: Just to push back for one second. In twenty sixteen, 336 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,719 Speaker 7: there was an alliance. It was not as as at 337 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:11,640 Speaker 7: least as I saw it. It was not as strong 338 00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 7: as this one. But Elon Musk was essentially campaigning for 339 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 7: government contracts. He started the boring company right at the 340 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 7: same time that Trump was talking about these infrastructure projects. 341 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 7: He was shown up at the White House. And the 342 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,960 Speaker 7: reason it fell apart was partly the Paris Climate Accords. 343 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 7: Like that was the reason that was given. But what 344 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,240 Speaker 7: was happening is a lot of Tesla customers were complaining, 345 00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 7: like they were mad about Elon's association with donind you're 346 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:40,520 Speaker 7: still mad, which well, but back then, right those Tesla customers, 347 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 7: You know, that customer base was a lot more left 348 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 7: leaning than I think it is today at this point. 349 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 7: And this is why I agree with Brad that, like 350 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 7: the this alliance is likely to be more durable. Elon 351 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:55,360 Speaker 7: Musk is not sort of breaking with his political identity 352 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:56,680 Speaker 7: and supporting Trump this time around. 353 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 5: He's come to terms with aating a fair amount of 354 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 5: what was his original customer base. 355 00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: And a lot has happened in the past four years. 356 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,560 Speaker 1: I mean, he moved from California to Texas. He's now 357 00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,360 Speaker 1: trying to sell the cyber truck to red state voters. 358 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: He has made his political views very clear, abundantly clear, 359 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,880 Speaker 1: over and over again in kind of increasingly inflammatory tweets 360 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: on X he you know today he took a pot 361 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: shot at the state of California and transgender youth. Right, 362 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,280 Speaker 1: It's like he's very clear, Like the mask is off, 363 00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 1: and people can argue about whether Musk has always been 364 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: this way or whether he's somehow changed, but his politics 365 00:19:35,400 --> 00:19:37,960 Speaker 1: are very clear, and I think it's just a question 366 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,679 Speaker 1: of like what is the ask, Like what else does 367 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:43,639 Speaker 1: he want from a Trump administration? Is it lower is 368 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 1: it like lower interest rates? Is it tariffs on China? 369 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: Is it border security like Dana? 370 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 5: How about a return to X and how about he says, 371 00:19:53,960 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 5: mister president, can you please start exing again on my platform? 372 00:19:58,359 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 5: I mean, I don't know, right. 373 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:03,399 Speaker 7: That was a hypothetical trade that Josh Green suggested on 374 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 7: an earlier podcast, and I still think it is a 375 00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 7: reasonable possibility that we'll see Trump now again Trump. There's 376 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,960 Speaker 7: some rules around truth Social. It's not clear what exactly 377 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,399 Speaker 7: Trump is able to do without breaking his agreements with 378 00:20:16,440 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 7: True Social, which is an ex competitor. But we talked 379 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 7: about in the podcast and possibilities. You know, x spaces, 380 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 7: the audio platform. You could imagine the former president spending 381 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,960 Speaker 7: time there, or or some sort of cross posting situation. 382 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 7: There are probably ways to help Elon Musk without necessarily 383 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:36,800 Speaker 7: hurting truth social shareholders who probably wouldn't care anyway. The 384 00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 7: other thing is back then, back in twenty sixteen, Tesla 385 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 7: was an EV company. Tesla today, according to Elon Musk, 386 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 7: is not an EV company, right, it is a AI company. 387 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 7: And so it sounds a little weird to hear like 388 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 7: Elon Musk supporting a candidate who hates electric vehicles, given 389 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 7: that Elon Musk is essentially the architect of the electric 390 00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 7: vehicle movement globally. But the thing is, Tesla now has 391 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 7: a dominant position in electric cars in the United States. 392 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,560 Speaker 7: It's not necessarily clear that Trump the policies that Trump 393 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,600 Speaker 7: are talking about would even hurt Tesla. And furthermore, right, 394 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,959 Speaker 7: Elon Musk is moving away from electric cars. He's all 395 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:16,879 Speaker 7: about the ROBOTAXI. 396 00:21:17,280 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 5: If Trump were to say I hate robotaxies, then oh 397 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,240 Speaker 5: my god, I don't even want to think about that. 398 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 5: All right, So, Brad, what's your sense? Is Elon's big 399 00:21:26,240 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 5: ass please start exing again, mister president, or is it 400 00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 5: something else you see? 401 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's a longer game, and I think 402 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 3: Max mentioned it before. I think that government contracts, department contracts, NASA, 403 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 3: billions and billions of dollars are at stake. Jeff Betos 404 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:46,840 Speaker 3: the last time around, via his ownership of The Washington Post, 405 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,480 Speaker 3: kind of demonstrated inadvertently what can happen when you get 406 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 3: on the wrong side of the former president's need for praise. 407 00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:59,160 Speaker 3: It arguably cost Amazon the Jedi contract. You saw when 408 00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,639 Speaker 3: after the after the former president survived the assassination attempt, 409 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 3: Bezos turned to x and immediately expressed his appreciation for 410 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 3: the former president and express as well wishes. I think 411 00:22:10,240 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 3: he understands this is Jeff Bezos said, he is once again, 412 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 3: perhaps on the wrong side of the incoming president, and 413 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:19,399 Speaker 3: that can cost him. 414 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,960 Speaker 4: Trump in our interview was still. 415 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:23,880 Speaker 3: Railing against the Washington Post and Bezos, and I think 416 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:27,560 Speaker 3: Elon knows that this is a president who is can't 417 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 3: be somewhat malleable to people who. 418 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:30,959 Speaker 4: He thinks are on his side. 419 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 3: His flip flop on TikTok was a great illustration of 420 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 3: that and the fact that jeff Yass, a major Trump backer, 421 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,520 Speaker 3: is also an investor in Byteedance, the company that owns TikTok. 422 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:43,280 Speaker 3: So I think that's the game in part that Elon 423 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: is playing here. 424 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,639 Speaker 1: The other thing that Trump and Musk also share is 425 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: Brad's point earlier, this is kind of grievance about being 426 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 1: the victims of witch hunts and what both of them 427 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,360 Speaker 1: now call law fair, which is this kind of overreached 428 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:00,360 Speaker 1: government excess. You know, the deep state is coming after them, 429 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,399 Speaker 1: and Musks is under investigation by all sorts of federal agencies. 430 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 1: The EEOC has sued Tesla for racism at the plant 431 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,840 Speaker 1: in Fremont. NITZA is looking at autopilot, the DOJ and 432 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: the SEC are looking at how Tesla has marketed what 433 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,840 Speaker 1: they call autopilot and full self driving. So there's like 434 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: multiple government probes, including in the Southern District of New York, 435 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,400 Speaker 1: that are in varying stages of robustness. And I think 436 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,480 Speaker 1: there's also probably a very big hope on Musk's part 437 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,240 Speaker 1: that Trump is reelected and those agencies are gutted and 438 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: that all of those various probes and federal increase just 439 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 1: go away. Yeah. 440 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 6: So I wouldn't discount that. 441 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,600 Speaker 7: I think that's like the number one item on his 442 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 7: hypothetical you're just getting through it now request for Well, 443 00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 7: it's it's not even an item, because it's pretty core 444 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,840 Speaker 7: to Trump's sort of promise with his campaign and jd 445 00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 7: Vance's right, they are promising to restore executive authority as 446 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,960 Speaker 7: they see it to the federal government, and that that 447 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,000 Speaker 7: could mean, you know, essentially defanging a bunch of these 448 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 7: regulatory agencies that Elon Musk has huge problems with. Elon 449 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 7: must doesn't really have to ask for this, actually, you know, 450 00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 7: it's it's something that Trump and and people around Trump 451 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 7: are seem to be very interested and excited about and 452 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 7: so on. 453 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 2: But it definitely seems like a huge part of the appeal. 454 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 5: Okay, Brad, I'm gonna put you on the spot, and 455 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 5: it's distinctly possible you look bad here with your answer, 456 00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 5: and we're going to find out in the next few days. 457 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:27,760 Speaker 5: That's that's another quit. 458 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 4: Is this another quiza? 459 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,360 Speaker 5: At some point in these shows, there's always a quiz. 460 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 5: Does Elon make an appearance at the R and C 461 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 5: this week? 462 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 4: I think so. 463 00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,119 Speaker 3: I mean, we'll we'll see, but I think it's it 464 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: would be hard for him to relinquish the opportunity in 465 00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,320 Speaker 3: the spotlight. This is now I think an adoring audience 466 00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: for him, and as we've seen in the past, he 467 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: likes to be feded. 468 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,639 Speaker 4: So I'm going to say that the answer is yes. 469 00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:55,720 Speaker 1: I have to admit that I like wake up every 470 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 1: morning and the first thing I do is like go 471 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,800 Speaker 1: to Reddit and see where the jet is, Like, is 472 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,159 Speaker 1: it en route to Milwaukee or not. I think at 473 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,119 Speaker 1: the moment it's still on the ground in Hawthorne, But 474 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 1: I do that is part of my like regular beat 475 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: checks that I do every day. 476 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 7: My bet is that he will not appear in person 477 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 7: at the RNC, but will will zoom in. 478 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 5: So I thought you said he was going to send 479 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 5: the robotop. 480 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 7: You know, we actually talked about this with Nancy Cook 481 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 7: on the podcast because Elon Musk. 482 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 2: First of all, he's not a super comfortable speaker. He's not. 483 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,919 Speaker 7: And I also think there may be something about he 484 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 7: sees himself as. 485 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 2: Important, if not more important than Donald Trump. 486 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 7: There may be something about actually going to the RNC 487 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,320 Speaker 7: that that feels maybe beneath him. So I'm betting on 488 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 7: a weird, slightly uncomfortable, you know kind of zoom session 489 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 7: where he endorses Trump. 490 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: I am curious to see it must actively campaigns for 491 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,280 Speaker 1: Trump at all going forward? You know, are they going 492 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:54,639 Speaker 1: to do like a border event? Like what else is 493 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,959 Speaker 1: going to happen? Like I'm just imagining like sort of 494 00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: like stump scenarios. I mean, I cover the presidential campaign 495 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,159 Speaker 1: and back in two thousand and four, and you know, 496 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: there's all these kind of like I'm just sort of 497 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 1: imagining the possibilities of like Musk and Trump, like go 498 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: to the border in Texas or Trump comes to the 499 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:13,600 Speaker 1: next starship launch. 500 00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 6: I mean, there's so many like possibilities for theater and 501 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:19,120 Speaker 6: for political photographs. 502 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: I just sort of wonder if we're going to see 503 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: something more active than just a bunch of tweets. 504 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,639 Speaker 5: Now, can we move off politics for a second here 505 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 5: and talk about Dana's big scoop from last week? So, Dana, 506 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,000 Speaker 5: you indeed did inform the world before everyone else that 507 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:40,520 Speaker 5: Tesla is delaying the great unveiling of the Robotaxi. It 508 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,919 Speaker 5: had been slated for some time in the month of 509 00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:50,679 Speaker 5: augusty and they've moved it back to October. October ish 510 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,880 Speaker 5: delayed Dana because of quote design changes, What does that mean? 511 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 5: And what do we is that? Truly the reason is 512 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 5: that what's going on here. 513 00:27:00,160 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: Well, you know what's so fascinating about covering Tesla is that, 514 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: as many people know or maybe don't know, they disbanded 515 00:27:06,240 --> 00:27:09,960 Speaker 1: their communications team in twenty nineteen, so like five years ago. 516 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,640 Speaker 1: So there really is no way to call the company 517 00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: for comment. And so anytime we have reporting and we're 518 00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:17,719 Speaker 1: about to put out a story, we always go directly 519 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,360 Speaker 1: to Elon and are like, we're about to report this, 520 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:22,080 Speaker 1: is there any context you want to provide? And we 521 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: always give them opportunity to weigh in, and there was nothing. 522 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: So our story was like, yeah, it's delayed. Elon asked 523 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:32,399 Speaker 1: for some kind of design change. And you also just 524 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,280 Speaker 1: need to build more cars. I mean, they don't want 525 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 1: to just like pull the sheet off of like one prototype. 526 00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: They want to prove that they've actually built many prototypes. 527 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:43,000 Speaker 1: So they need more time to actually build more prototypes. 528 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:47,600 Speaker 1: So the story came out on Thursday morning, and the 529 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: stock traded quite drastically as a result. 530 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 6: We got a lot of inbalance. 531 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,719 Speaker 1: I think yes, eight percent, yes, I think like sixty 532 00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: billion dollars of market cap was wiped out, and a 533 00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: lot of analysts started calling me like what else do 534 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:04,399 Speaker 1: you know? And I was like, I'm not going to 535 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: tell you anything that we need to publish. Like read 536 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: the story. It was very clear. I found out very 537 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 1: quickly which Wall Street analysts actually subscribed to the blue 538 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,160 Speaker 1: Berg terminal and which do not. But and then there 539 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,679 Speaker 1: was all this stuff on x about like how this 540 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 1: was fake news and wy Diden Elon like knock it down, 541 00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: and so we were like sort of waiting, waiting, waiting 542 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: like at some point Elon is going to have to 543 00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: chime in here. And then yesterday he basically confirmed our scoop, like. 544 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:28,840 Speaker 6: Almost verbade him. So so I don't know. 545 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: I mean I think that, you know, I think that 546 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: he pulled this eight eight date out of a hat 547 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 1: when he you know, when he announced it in April, 548 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:38,239 Speaker 1: I think he was very much trying to kind of 549 00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:41,600 Speaker 1: knock down or get ahead of, or recuperate from a 550 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: Reuter story which basically said that he was abandoning the 551 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: lower cost car and going all in on the Robotaxi. 552 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 1: So then he was like, oh, yeah, the Robotaxi is 553 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: coming August eighth, and August eighth is a big date 554 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 1: in numerology circles in China. It's supposed to bring good luck. 555 00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: Now the speculation is that it's going to be out 556 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: tenth or that it's going to be like a bigger 557 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: October surprise eighty. 558 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 5: To get this, then then we go twelve twelve to 559 00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 5: like ter twelve twelve, What comes one to one? 560 00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:12,880 Speaker 2: I don't know. 561 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 7: If there wasn't an assassination attempt against the former president, 562 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 7: if there wasn't a Republican national convention this week, this 563 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 7: is what we'd be talking about. This is really bad 564 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 7: development if you're like a robotaxi believer, remember when he 565 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 7: made all these. 566 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 5: Like why, but why can't it just simply be Yeah, 567 00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 5: I got out over my skis, I said eight eight, 568 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 5: I meant well ten. 569 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 7: Just because when he made this announcement that that Tesla 570 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,960 Speaker 7: was essentially pivoting towards robotaxis, there are a lot of 571 00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 7: questions about how realistic this is, you know, and I've 572 00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 7: talked about this before, right, There are a lot of 573 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:47,000 Speaker 7: big companies have spent a lot of money trying to 574 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,880 Speaker 7: make robotaxis work. Tesla doesn't seem to have worked on 575 00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 7: any of these issues and what he's going to come 576 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 7: out with all this in a couple of months. It 577 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 7: seems really tough to believe, and fairly last minute delay 578 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,360 Speaker 7: for vague reasons is fueling the narrative that like, maybe 579 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 7: this is vaporware. Remember, sometimes Tesla introduces products that are 580 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 7: very well formed, and sometimes it introduces products that are 581 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 7: sort of just figments of Elon Musk's imagination. You know, 582 00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,840 Speaker 7: the original launch of the Optimist Robot, which I think 583 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:19,080 Speaker 7: in some sense is still vaporware, was literally just a 584 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 7: guy in Lycra pretending to be a robot. And I 585 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 7: think there's a real risk here that we're going to 586 00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:29,360 Speaker 7: see the car equivalent of that car in Lycra, a 587 00:30:29,440 --> 00:30:31,000 Speaker 7: car in a Robotaxi costume. 588 00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,960 Speaker 5: So all right, to wrap up the Robotaxi segment and 589 00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:38,600 Speaker 5: to wrap up our show here, and to prove to 590 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,200 Speaker 5: Brad that yes there's always a quiz or sometimes multiple 591 00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,959 Speaker 5: quizzes on the show, I will ask the three of 592 00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,440 Speaker 5: you to give me a little to give me your 593 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 5: best guesstimate on the timing of the great Robotaxi reveal. 594 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 5: So if indeed he initially said eight to eight August 595 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 5: eighth was the date, and now he's saying October, and 596 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 5: we all know how musk time works. Max Chafkin, when 597 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,360 Speaker 5: do we actually get the lay eyes on the great 598 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 5: ROBOTAXI give me a month, hour, a month, day and hour. 599 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: This is like the first unveiling, not an actual robot unveiling. 600 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 5: When he when he pulls off the sheet the seat something. 601 00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,600 Speaker 2: I think he'll do it in October. 602 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,920 Speaker 7: I think it's gonna I think it's it's gonna be hard, 603 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 7: especially given the delay to create a further delay. 604 00:31:26,200 --> 00:31:27,800 Speaker 5: Sticks with October, Dana. 605 00:31:27,680 --> 00:31:29,080 Speaker 6: I'm gonna go October tenth. 606 00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,200 Speaker 5: Two votes for him. Sticking with October, Brad, do we 607 00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,200 Speaker 5: have a clean sweep? 608 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:35,600 Speaker 4: I'm going to agree. 609 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 3: Just because he's going to unveil something does not mean 610 00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 3: that it's ready for prime time, as he is amply 611 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 3: demonstrated in the past. But the risks of delay here 612 00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 3: would be a bit too embarrassing for him, so we'll 613 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 3: see something. 614 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:52,800 Speaker 5: Okay, So no double delay. There is consensus here which 615 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 5: tells me, being the controller and I am, that there's 616 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 5: no chance in hell in October. Okay. 617 00:31:58,640 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 6: One wild card theory. 618 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: Because he's embarrassed by the delay, he could pull it forward, 619 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: so like maybe maybe they do like late September. Then 620 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: he gets to be like, oh, like musk beats his 621 00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,840 Speaker 1: you know, they could do something funky. 622 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 2: Like that, But I like that. 623 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 5: That's a good theory, Max, Dana Brad, thank you very 624 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 5: much for joining us. 625 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 6: Thank you, David, always the pleasure great to be here. 626 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 5: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and 627 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:37,680 Speaker 5: Rayhan Harmanci are senior editors. The idea for this very 628 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:41,600 Speaker 5: show also came from Rayhan. Blake Maples handles engineering, and 629 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 5: we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocott, Antonio Muffarech 630 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,280 Speaker 5: and RFT Shalasho Perry. Our supervising producers Magnus Henrickson. The 631 00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 5: Elon Inc. Theme is written and performed by Taka Yasuzawa 632 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,800 Speaker 5: and Alex Suviera. Brendan Francis Newnham is our executive editor, 633 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,360 Speaker 5: and Sage Bauman is the head of Bloomberg pod Cast. 634 00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 5: A big thanks to our supporter Joel Weber. I'm David Papadopoulos. 635 00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 5: If you have a minute, rate and review our show, 636 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 5: it'll help other listeners find us. See you next week.