WEBVTT - Rosie O’Donnell 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:05.040 She called me about ten years after we did League 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.600 of their own, So, you know, twenty years ago, twenty 0:00:07.640 --> 0:00:11.720 five years ago, mame and she said to me, Rosie, 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:17.639 can you play soccer? I said, what can you play soccer? 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:21.880 I don't know. I never It wasn't my sport truthfully, 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:24.120 too much running. I didn't like it. I had to sit. 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:26.760 But you know, yeah, I know how to play soccer. 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:30.560 Why She's like, well, there's a team in Mexico. Great story. 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.720 You could be the lady. I go, I'm Rosie o'donnald. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:36.640 I'm going to be the Mexican woman on the soccer coach. 0:00:37.440 --> 0:00:40.040 But she was always trying to like get everybody back 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:43.080 together and do it again. And you know, do you 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:52.320 play soccer? Hi? This is Rosie o'donnald and I have 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:52.760 a cold. 0:00:52.760 --> 0:01:04.000 Soar friends, Welcome to this week's episode of Off the Beat. 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:11.240 I am, as always, your humble host, Brian Baumgartner. Today's guest, Well, 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:14.720 she needs no introduction. I'm going to give one anyways, 0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:16.880 but I just want you to know I am so 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:23.560 excited to welcome the legendary Rosie O'Donnell to the podcast. Honestly, 0:01:24.440 --> 0:01:26.319 it would be much easier for me to tell you 0:01:26.400 --> 0:01:30.280 what Rosie hasn't done in the entertainment business than to 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:35.640 list her her countless huge projects from the last what 0:01:36.480 --> 0:01:40.319 four decades. I mean, maybe you know Rosie from some 0:01:40.400 --> 0:01:44.319 of the tiny movies she's done, you know, a League 0:01:44.360 --> 0:01:48.280 of their own, Sleepless in Seattle, Or perhaps you're more 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:52.680 familiar with her stand up career, or from her years 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:56.520 doing the iconic Rosie O'Donnell show. The Queen of Nice 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.920 is also the Queen of candid. To be clear, She's 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:06.680 also responsible for some of the biggest philanthropic efforts in 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:10.960 the history of show business and was continues to be 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:17.360 groundbreaking for the LGBTQ plus community around the world. We'll 0:02:17.360 --> 0:02:21.040 hear a lot about that and the impact she has 0:02:21.160 --> 0:02:25.040 made in that community. Look, she's a legend for a reason. 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:27.960 You might even say that she's in a league of 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:34.680 her own. Okay, not the best, but I'm trying. This 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.519 is a great conversation. There is so much insider info, 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.360 and if you know anything about Rosie, you should not 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:46.200 be surprised that she was able to be completely candid, moving, 0:02:46.840 --> 0:02:49.679 and hilarious all at once. So I'm not going to 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:54.320 make you wait any longer. Here she is Rosie O'Donnell, 0:02:58.400 --> 0:02:59.480 Bubble and squeak. 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:06.960 I love it, Bubble and Squeakana, Bubble and Squeaker. Cook 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:08.120 get every mo. 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.919 Lift over from the Nubyo. 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.120 Hi, Rosie, how are you? 0:03:23.720 --> 0:03:24.400 I'm good. 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.560 I'm so happy to be doing this. 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.120 Well, I'm so happy that you're here. It's it's a 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:33.040 little bit of a different environment than Watch What Happens Live. 0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:34.440 The last time I saw. 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:36.640 You, I know, that was so fun. And I remember 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:39.120 I said to Laurie, I love that guy. We should 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.000 hang out with him. So this is our first hang. 0:03:41.360 --> 0:03:42.560 Consider this our first hang. 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.760 This will be our first of many, I hope. 0:03:46.120 --> 0:03:46.800 Yeah, me too. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.400 Congratulations on the new podcast. We're going to talk about 0:03:50.400 --> 0:03:53.400 that in a little bit, but I wanted to start 0:03:53.440 --> 0:03:56.720 back by the way I told you this when I'm 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:02.320 I'm a huge fan of yours. You're career is well, 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:06.120 I mean, it's unbelievable and inspiring. I want to get 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:11.320 into a little bit. When did you first begin to 0:04:11.520 --> 0:04:15.600 have feelings of interest in performing? When you were a kid? 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:21.479 Pre kindergarten pre kindergarten. Yes, in kindergarten, everybody would do 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.799 show and tell and they would bring in a toy 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:26.400 and I would go and now I'd like to do 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.640 something from Guys and Dolls, and I would belt out 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:32.599 a Broadway show song that my mother would listen to 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:35.720 the original cast recordings all the time. So I knew 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.880 every Broadway show and I wanted to be a performer. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.040 I wanted to be Barbara streisand I want to be 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.320 Bette Midler. Now the fact that I really couldn't sing 0:04:45.080 --> 0:04:48.200 or dance didn't really, you know, dissuade me. I was 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:51.479 still like, gung ho, let's do this. And the goal 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:54.760 for me was never Hollywood. It was always Broadway, because 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:58.680 you know, Hollywood was some imaginary illusion that I mean, 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:00.400 I had been on a plane and you know, I 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.160 didn't know how to get there, But Broadway I knew 0:05:03.200 --> 0:05:05.200 how to get there, and I knew how to watch 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:07.440 sweaty people come out of that stage door that I 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.000 just saw on stage, and I'm like, this is the 0:05:10.040 --> 0:05:13.359 destination Broadway. So that's always always what I thought I 0:05:13.360 --> 0:05:15.240 would do. You know, I would have a career as 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:17.440 a Broadway performer and then maybe producer. 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:20.040 Did you so you went to a lot of shows 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:21.560 even as a young Oh yeah, a young kid. 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.640 Okay, yes, yeah, very very often. I would take off 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:29.160 Wednesday and go on the train into Manhattan and then 0:05:29.200 --> 0:05:34.080 get a ten dollars tk TS seat. Yeah, or the 0:05:34.240 --> 0:05:36.040 when you did they used to do standing room. I 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:37.880 don't know if they still do that now with COVID, 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.800 but they used to do standing room for for a 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.160 very discounted fee. And and I saw all those hits 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.840 in the seventies. I saw you know, best little whorehouse, 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:51.440 I saw a Pippin, I saw a horus line, I 0:05:51.560 --> 0:05:55.280 saw you know, they're playing our song, and I loved it. 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.120 I thought it was the most magical part of the world. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:03.200 And I came to find out in my career that 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:05.320 I've been very lucky to do a lot of different 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:09.240 things in different avenues, and I think the most enjoyable 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:13.240 for me is definitely Broadway. But it's a young person's 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:16.200 game because eight shows a week when you're sixty one, 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.080 trying to remember the lines is not what it was 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:19.880 in my twenties. 0:06:20.000 --> 0:06:23.080 You know, Yeah, you know it's funny because you know, 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.000 I don't know if you know this. I started off 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.760 in theater as well, and I thought I thought that 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.320 that was my life, that was all I wanted to 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:37.000 do as well, and so I was never based in 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:40.000 New York. I did some shows there, but I was 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.360 sort of on that major regional theater circuit, traveling from 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:47.279 city to city, Berkeley Rep and the Guthrie and others. 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.599 And I think what you just said is so true. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.600 It is kind of a young person's game that eight 0:06:53.680 --> 0:06:58.279 shows a week, NonStop. The only day you have off 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:02.200 is Monday, and nobody else is off on Mondays. It's 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:05.080 hard to have a life, right. 0:07:05.480 --> 0:07:08.240 Well, you only have your life and your world amongst 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:10.760 the people who are on your schedule. So it's a 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:15.600 small community. It's a very connected kind community. Everyone knows 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:20.440 each other. It's so much more tangible than the vagueness 0:07:20.440 --> 0:07:23.840 of Hollywood success. When you're on Broadway, you know, you 0:07:23.880 --> 0:07:25.960 see the same people when you go out to eat 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:28.720 in between shows at Joe Allen's, and you know, you 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:32.120 get your routine and it becomes your life and your world. 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:34.840 And it is a beautiful part of show business. It's 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.840 the part that kind of moves me the most. When 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.240 you go home after doing a series, go in your bed, 0:07:42.280 --> 0:07:44.400 you go to sleep. It's not the same as live 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:48.400 performers there with you making a show every night just 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:51.320 for those sixteen hundred people in the theater. You know. 0:07:51.920 --> 0:07:56.800 Yeah, you're in high school and your dream is to 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:01.760 be on Broadway. What begins to get you into stand up? 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:06.200 I did a comedy show where you make fun of 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:10.400 the teachers, called Senior Follies, Okay, And I would take 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:15.040 the whole Saturday night live record and I would change 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:18.720 the names, like you know miss Baron, who was a 0:08:18.840 --> 0:08:22.120 very skinny, flat chested teacher. More on this story as 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:25.240 it develops, right, I would just change the and I've 0:08:25.280 --> 0:08:27.000 made it all about the teachers. Well, they thought I 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:29.160 was a genius. They're like, I'm like, don't, don't put 0:08:29.200 --> 0:08:31.680 on that record because I stole everything from there, you know. 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.000 And so I wrote it and I did Rosanne, Rosanna, Dana, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.080 you haven't nice. You got a little piece of saliva 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.080 and your mom that goes up and down and up 0:08:43.160 --> 0:08:46.600 and and I had a wig on. And this man 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.400 comes over to me, who's about thirty and I'm now sixteen, right, 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.880 and he says, my brother is in this play. Yeah, 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.280 I'm his older brother. I just opened a comedy club 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.760 out on Huntington, Long Island. Uh, you know, next two 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.319 town over, why don't you come and do some stand 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:03.680 up And I was like, I don't want to do 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:05.720 stand up. I want to be on Broadway, right, And 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:07.560 he was like, well, maybe before you get to Broadway 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:09.199 you can do a little stand up. And I was like, well, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.120 i'll try. So I go to this club and it's 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.280 a Saturday night and it's every kid I knew in 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.640 high school that would and I was popular in high school. 0:09:17.960 --> 0:09:20.760 The whole place was packed, and I didn't really have 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.800 an act per se, but I would make fun of 0:09:23.840 --> 0:09:26.400 the people in the audience, like, oh, mindy, you know, 0:09:26.600 --> 0:09:28.880 do you know that your boyfriend Billy made out with 0:09:28.920 --> 0:09:32.440 Lisa Shackner last week? Like it would just be like cobitzing, 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:34.839 you know. Well, I killed because they thought it was 0:09:34.920 --> 0:09:37.520 hysterical that I was on a comedy club. And well, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:39.960 Richie said, why don't you come back tomorrow night? And 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:41.520 I was like, all right, I'll try it again. Look 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.600 how good I was. The next night was a school 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.360 night and nobody could come, so it was just a 0:09:47.440 --> 0:09:51.079 regular crowd. When I say that I died a death 0:09:51.640 --> 0:09:56.800 on that stage, it was torturous to watch. So I 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.880 get off and Richie goes well, you know, you gotta 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:00.679 bomb a little bit, kid, you get a little bit. 0:10:00.760 --> 0:10:03.640 And I'm like, okay, all right, I go back and 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.040 he says, I can start working the open mic night 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:08.360 as the as the MC and you know, not get 0:10:08.400 --> 0:10:11.000 paid really. But I did that and I learned a lot. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.280 I learned how to do it. And then Shirley Hempill 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:18.640 from What's Happening, she was the headliner and she saw 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.240 me at the open mic night and she told Richie Menavini, Oh, 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.800 that kid's going to open for me this weekend. And 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:27.679 he said, she's not ready. I'm not paying her. She's novid. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.360 She said, well, I won't perform if you don't book 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.199 her and pay her fifty bucks a show. So it 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:36.480 was like I made three hundred dollars on the weekend. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:41.800 I could not believe it. I couldn't believe it. And 0:10:42.040 --> 0:10:45.560 that's how it began, you know. A few years later, 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.880 when I was twenty two, a woman at that same 0:10:48.960 --> 0:10:51.000 comedy club came over to me, and she's in her 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:55.120 forties and she says, my dad is Ed McMahon, and 0:10:55.200 --> 0:10:58.680 I'm the talent coordinator for Star Search, and we'd like 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:00.360 you to come on Star Search. I thought, you're not 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.960 Claudia McMahon, you're not his daughters, what would you be 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:06.920 doing here? Sure enough, that was Claudia McMahon, and it 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.240 was Ed's daughter, and she got me on that show 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:12.720 where I won five or six weeks in a row 0:11:12.800 --> 0:11:16.120 and made like twenty seven hundred dollars each time I won. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:20.640 I was rolling in it right, and I ended up 0:11:20.720 --> 0:11:23.560 not winning the year but the final one hundred thousand 0:11:23.559 --> 0:11:26.120 dollars prize. But I got to a point where now 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:29.120 I was known enough to be a headliner. So by 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:31.920 twenty two after that show was on, I was headlining 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:35.040 all over the country in small venues like little clubs, 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:36.800 you know, but still it was it was a living 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.360 for sure. I could make a living. And that's how 0:11:39.360 --> 0:11:39.800 it began. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.520 So when you say I'm going I want to go 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:45.520 back just a teeny bit. But you were m seeing 0:11:45.559 --> 0:11:50.160 these comedy nights. So what were you What were you 0:11:50.280 --> 0:11:53.640 learning as you watched these comics? 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:56.640 Well, you know, it was mostly open mic night, and 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:58.880 you don't really learn a lot from open mic night 0:11:59.000 --> 0:12:02.560 because you know, nobody there is a professional. But Richie 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:04.200 was so kind to me. He used to let me 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:07.280 come and hang out on the weekends in an empty seat. 0:12:07.720 --> 0:12:10.440 So I rarely got to see female comics, which was 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.560 a bummer because there were so few of us back then. 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:15.520 They were like, you know, ten women, and we were 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:18.160 working the circuit and we never got booked together because 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:20.840 they didn't think two women could do a show together. 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.320 You know, it was so rare to have a woman 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.520 comic that they didn't ever let us work together, which 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:31.360 was kind of sad. But what I learned from watching 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:34.240 comics is first of all, that you have to use 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:38.640 your own material. I used Jerry Seinfeld's material when I 0:12:38.720 --> 0:12:44.080 was seventeen, right, And not only did I take his material, 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:48.280 I took his cadence. So I literally went on stage 0:12:48.320 --> 0:12:50.160 and said, you know, my cow got stuck on the 0:12:50.160 --> 0:12:51.839 way here. What am I looking for? 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:52.200 Big? 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:56.839 On off, switch on off. I'm thinking, hey, dogs don't 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.800 have pockets, you know I did. And they walked off 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.600 stae and I got a very good response, right, And 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.720 these male comics come over to me in their thirties 0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.200 and I'm like a teenager and they said, where'd you 0:13:08.200 --> 0:13:10.680 get that? I said, Jerry Seinfeld, he was on MERV 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.439 Griffin yesterday, he's a comedian. They say, well, you cannot 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.640 use his jokes. I go why. They go, he you 0:13:17.679 --> 0:13:19.040 have to write your own jokes. I go, hold it. 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.720 Barbara Streisam does not write music. All she does is 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:23.680 sing I'm just going to be funny. I'm not going 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:26.840 to write my own jokes. I'm not a writer. And 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:28.720 they're like, well, that's how you have to do it. 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.120 And here's our advice. Talk about your family, something nobody 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.040 else talks about. Talk about your own experience and your 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.360 own family. So that's what I learned, how to take 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:42.400 my life, exaggerate it, twist it, and present it as 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.679 a finished product. Like I learned that there's a couple 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.679 kinds of comedy conversational and presentational, and the difference is 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.800 pretty big. And which kind did you want to be? 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:57.480 Where did you naturally fall in your comedic timing and 0:13:57.520 --> 0:14:02.680 your comedic vision? You know? And it was very very 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:07.160 helpful whenever I read like Max Max Malcolm glod Well 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:09.040 whatever his name is, and it says you have to 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.440 do like one hundred thousand hours of something to get 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:14.440 I put in my time at those comedy clubs years 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:15.920 and years and years. 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:20.000 You know, which type do you think you're more conversational presentation. 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:24.120 I definitely think when I started, I was presentational, okay, right. 0:14:24.560 --> 0:14:27.280 I would work a bit, work a bit, work a bit, 0:14:27.360 --> 0:14:29.400 get it till it was a finished product and wrapped 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:31.520 up in a nice little bow. I put it in 0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:34.680 the basket, and then I go on. But as I've 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.200 gotten older and with this job now of podcasting, I 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:42.560 think I prefer a more conversational approach. You know, even 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:46.080 when I'm watching young comedians, I think I love when 0:14:46.120 --> 0:14:49.760 they're having conversations rather than you know, but I'm bumch, 0:14:49.880 --> 0:14:51.040 but I'm bumch. 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:54.760 You know. Yeah, Well it's interesting because you know, we're 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:58.520 all both in this business and by the way, even 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:01.720 people who are not in this business, you're everyone's playing 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:04.720 a character, right to a certain degree. You're playing a 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:07.720 character with your family, or with your friends, or with 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:10.280 this set of friends. It's different than that other set 0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:14.360 of friends. And but for you, did you feel like 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:19.160 you were creating a character which was Rosie the stand up? 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.840 Or what percentage of yourself did you bring into it? 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:28.280 Well, you know, I didn't bring anything about being gay 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.600 because it was at a time when no one really 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:34.560 talked about it and or asked you about it. Like 0:15:34.760 --> 0:15:36.760 no one ever said to me as I was, you know, 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.320 growing up in the industry, Oh, by the way, are 0:15:40.360 --> 0:15:44.280 you gay? Like it wasn't a conversation. And I remember 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:47.080 once when I was touring with Greece before we came 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:51.920 into Broadway, and Lois Smith, who was a legendary publicist, 0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:55.200 was for one of the people who founded PMK. She 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.720 was my publicist, and she was amazing because she was 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.880 also Marilyn Monroe's publicist, and she knew everyone in show 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.440 business and she was a legend and a wonderful blessing 0:16:05.480 --> 0:16:08.960 that she was in my life. And she had me 0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:12.800 interview somebody from Patrick Pachenko, I think his name is, 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:18.040 from Cosmopolitan magazine and he asked me if I was 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.520 dating anyone and I said no, and he said, well, 0:16:21.560 --> 0:16:23.720 who would you want to date? And I said anyone 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:27.680 who applies? And he said could that person be a woman? 0:16:27.800 --> 0:16:32.360 I said, you never know, could be. Well, Lois called 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:37.320 Helen Gurley Brown and had that part taken out of 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:40.920 the interview. It was a time when there was no internet, 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:45.200 the rumors weren't flying around everywhere. You could just remove it. 0:16:45.480 --> 0:16:48.200 She would made a call and removed it, you know, 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.800 So I didn't use that part of my life, but 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.320 I used my childhood because I was a young kid 0:16:54.360 --> 0:16:56.400 doing it starting out right, I was twenty. It was 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.920 in my teens in the early twenties, and and I 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:05.520 talked about my Irish being Irish and what that meant, 0:17:05.640 --> 0:17:09.359 and my dad with a brogue, and you know, I 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:12.240 did my life as much as I could, but I 0:17:12.280 --> 0:17:14.240 didn't you know, I didn't put in any of the 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:20.200 personal stuff about sexuality. And I don't think I would 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:22.600 have even been I've been able to imagine how to 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:24.200 incorporate that at the time. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:28.760 You know, did you lie or was it just omission? 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:32.600 It was omission, but it was also a very public 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:36.439 non secret. Like I would take Kelly, who was my wife, 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:41.080 and to the Emmys every year, would sit next door. 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:44.200 I mean, like I didn't show up with a boy. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:48.440 You know, people would say, well, you like you pretended 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:50.600 that you love Tom Cruise. I go, no, I do 0:17:50.680 --> 0:17:55.040 love Tom Cruise. I fully love the fourteen year old girl. 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:58.320 And me who put Bobby Sherman's picture on the wall 0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.840 loves him in the same that I loved Bobby Sherman. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.800 And he's turned out to be personally in my experience 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:11.639 the most unbelievably consistent kind man to me. He sends 0:18:11.680 --> 0:18:14.720 me flowers on my birthday, he sends me things when 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:19.400 my children are born. He's been stalwart and steady and 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:23.840 really really like a dream almost to me where he 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.679 could have run the other way going stalker stalker, you know. 0:18:27.080 --> 0:18:31.400 But yeah, so I don't know that. I don't think 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:35.320 that I was hiding, but I didn't have a way 0:18:35.600 --> 0:18:41.119 to approach the gay thing because of the time period 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:43.640 that it was in. Like when my show started, there 0:18:43.680 --> 0:18:46.359 was no will and grace right right. They said to 0:18:46.400 --> 0:18:48.600 me after the first season, Oh, there's a new show 0:18:48.640 --> 0:18:52.240 coming on NBC. It's a gay guy and a girl 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.000 and they're going to be roommates. And I'm like, well, 0:18:54.040 --> 0:18:55.800 that'll never last. I'm gonna have a show with a 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.720 gay person on it. I mean seriously, that was like 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.080 what everyone thought. If people knew somebody was gay, they 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:04.280 didn't watch. And remember Love Sidney. Do you remember that? 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.080 It was a Tony Randall series that ran for like 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:12.120 three weeks and they never said that he was gay. 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.040 But he had a picture of a man over the 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:16.439 fireplace and he would sort of look at it at 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:18.760 the end of the episode, and I remember the Catholic 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:22.920 Church went that shit crazy and it was pulled off 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.679 the air. Wow, it just wasn't in my reality to 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:30.320 think that it was accomplishable. Now, then the lawsuit came 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.879 out with the ACLU where gay foster parents like me, 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.960 I was a gay foster parent, were unable to adopt 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.760 even the children they raised because that was the law 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:45.680 in Florida, and the ACLU had a lawsuit with the 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:48.560 Loft and Cruteau is the two men's names who the 0:19:48.640 --> 0:19:52.440 lawsuit was named after. They were pediatric aids nurses and 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:56.639 aids cars. So anyway, I came out through that and 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:01.199 that was like in January, right after nine to eleven, 0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:04.040 and it kind of was not even a story because 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:06.040 we were aill in shock as a nation. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:28.880 You know, right, Star Search nineteen eighty four, you're making 0:20:28.880 --> 0:20:32.400 twenty seven hundred dollars a week. Do you consider that 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:37.080 chance meeting with Claudia McMahon, What kind of impact do 0:20:37.080 --> 0:20:39.280 you feel like that had on your career? Did that 0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:41.160 change your life totally? 0:20:41.480 --> 0:20:45.560 One hundred. It was a very big show. I venture 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.160 to say that it was as popular in nineteen eighty 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:51.760 four as American Idol was at its height. Sam Harris 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:54.679 had been on the year before and America fell in 0:20:54.720 --> 0:20:57.560 love with him and his Judy Garland impression singing, and 0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.480 this was year two and so it was a very 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:05.200 big deal and I went from being maybe an MC 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:08.920 or an opener to a headliner after that. No, they 0:21:08.920 --> 0:21:11.960 weren't like big venues like Caesar's, you know, which I 0:21:12.000 --> 0:21:15.920 eventually worked my way up to. But they were little clubs, 0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:18.800 but you could make a living, you know. So I 0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.080 think if it hadn't been for Claudia McMahon, I would 0:21:21.080 --> 0:21:24.080 have toiled away in New York at the comedy clubs, 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.520 you know, forever and hopefully you know, got a career 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.359 or a sitcom or hopefully you know, get to play 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:33.600 Rhoda Norgenstern. 0:21:33.720 --> 0:21:33.919 You know. 0:21:35.440 --> 0:21:40.159 Yeah, so I was. I was very happy with that 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:43.359 chance meeting and and stayed you know, in touch with 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.399 him throughout his life, and he was very proud of 0:21:47.000 --> 0:21:50.960 the Irish me that got up there to the finals. 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:56.080 Yeah, at this point, do you consider yourself And I 0:21:56.200 --> 0:21:58.840 talked to a lot of people about this. I get 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:02.680 I get introduced or identified as this often, do you 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:06.040 at that point at least did you consider yourself a 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:08.159 comedian or an actor. 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:14.840 Well, I think I think I would say actor, okay, 0:22:14.960 --> 0:22:17.960 because I was acting like a comedian, right, right, That's 0:22:18.000 --> 0:22:21.159 what I was studying comedy and then performing it and 0:22:21.240 --> 0:22:24.640 trying to figure out how to mold that clay myself 0:22:24.720 --> 0:22:27.239 every night on stage. And and you know, I got 0:22:27.320 --> 0:22:30.520 pretty good at it. I mean I got nominated for 0:22:30.560 --> 0:22:34.240 a couple of Emmys for my specials. And you know 0:22:34.359 --> 0:22:38.160 I headlined Caesar's Palace. I mean that's a pretty big gig. 0:22:38.280 --> 0:22:39.800 You know, it was a huge gig. 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:44.199 Yeah, And I filled in for George Burns on his 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.400 hundredth birthday at Caesar's Palace. He was supposed to be performing, 0:22:47.440 --> 0:22:49.760 but he couldn't, and he asked me to perform in 0:22:49.840 --> 0:22:53.080