Speaker 1: Warning. Today's episode contains general spoilers for a lot of
Speaker 1: Captain America characters. That means Statius Ross, that means Sam Wilson,
Speaker 1: that means Steve Rogers. That means Bucky Barnes in the
Speaker 1: MCU movies, but also in Marvel comic books. So be
Speaker 1: warned because we're going to tell you who these people
Speaker 1: are and how we get to Captain America Brave New World. Hello,
Speaker 1: my name is Jason Getupsio and on Mesday Night, and
Speaker 1: welcome back to x Ray Vision of the podcast where
Speaker 1: we dive deep into your favorite shows, movies, comics and
Speaker 1: pop culture Recovery of LRA podcast where we're bringing you
Speaker 1: three episodes a week every Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday.
Speaker 2: In this episode, as Jason hinted in the spoiler warning,
Speaker 2: we are looking at the road to Captain America a
Speaker 2: Brave New World. How did we get here? In the
Speaker 2: MCU what decisions? Let us here? Who is Sam Wilson?
Speaker 2: You know who Sam Wilson is if you listen to
Speaker 2: this podcast, but if you don't, who is he? How
Speaker 2: did he take on the mantle of Captain America? And
Speaker 2: who or what is a Red Hulk. We're going to
Speaker 2: get into it, and then afterwards we're gonna do a
Speaker 2: brief comics corner to talk about how the comics got
Speaker 2: there so the movies could adapt them.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's start with the MCU timeline of Captain America.
Speaker 1: It opens in nineteen forty two, World War Two, raging
Speaker 1: ninety eight pound weekling Brooklyn boy Steve Rodgers has tried
Speaker 1: multiple times Rosy to get into the army.
Speaker 2: And it's so tiny.
Speaker 1: He can't do it. He's like a little pinhead, Like
Speaker 1: he's like a little pin with a stick finger with
Speaker 1: a little pin body lollipops. He can't do it. He
Speaker 1: can't even like lift a pencil. The guys but he's tough,
Speaker 1: but he's weak. He's gonna me like he's got he's
Speaker 1: got heart, he got hot kid. Steve attends the Stark
Speaker 1: Expo with his best friend in Brooklyn, Bucky Barnes, and
Speaker 1: as luck would have it, scientist Abraham Erskine, who is
Speaker 1: the science head of the top secret Super Soldier program,
Speaker 1: is also in attendance. Erskine has been worried because he's
Speaker 1: developing this super Soldier serum that will make everything that's
Speaker 1: inside a person just becomes stronger. So if you put
Speaker 1: it into a bad man, he'll become worse. Put into
Speaker 1: a good man, he'll become better. So he needs to
Speaker 1: find this like, really good person, and he kind of thinks,
Speaker 1: after overhearing conversation that Steve has, that maybe he could
Speaker 1: be that guy. So he allows Steve to enlist in
Speaker 1: the selection program, and Steve wins the bake off and
Speaker 1: gets to undergo the super soldier process. It really really works.
Speaker 1: He immediately after being bombarded by Vita Rays with a
Speaker 1: super soldio seerup in his bloodstream, turns into Chris Evans.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Chris Evans, no longer tiny CGI, Chris Evans, absolutely big, muscly,
Speaker 2: real life buff Chris Evans.
Speaker 1: Good for him, Good for him. And let me tell
Speaker 1: you Peggy Carter, who was running the training program, the
Speaker 1: selection process, and was already kind of like, you know what,
Speaker 1: this guy Steve is good. I like him. Now she's
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, they're like, hold on hold the phone.
Speaker 1: So it works, but there's a problem because Hydra, the
Speaker 1: Nazi organization, discovers that this super soldier process is taking place.
Speaker 1: They want to destroy it or steal it, and so
Speaker 1: they strike right after the super soldier process is completed,
Speaker 1: Erskine is killed and all the work is destroy Rogers
Speaker 1: chases down the killer, but he like chomps down on
Speaker 1: the signid capsule and dies. Now that the super soldier
Speaker 1: process is basically done for and the only viable specimen
Speaker 1: of successful super soldier you know serum, is Rogers, and
Speaker 1: it's in his blood. It's deemed that he's like too
Speaker 1: valuable to put into the field, so he gets stuck
Speaker 1: chilling war bonds. But then all.
Speaker 2: Kinds of funny propagandas the girls.
Speaker 1: Yes, But when he finds out that his best buddy,
Speaker 1: Bucky Barnes and his elite unit, the Howland Commando, has.
Speaker 2: Been captured, Steve goesgue.
Speaker 1: That's right, Steve goes rogue on his own to rescue them,
Speaker 1: and it's successful. Now with the Commandos at his back,
Speaker 1: Steve has the juice to actually get into the war.
Speaker 1: And he goes around and they're beating up Hydra Hither
Speaker 1: and Yon and kicking them all around. Around this time,
Speaker 1: Howard Stark, Tony's dad gives Steve his iconic shield made
Speaker 1: of vibranium. It's indestructible almost because we do see Fanos
Speaker 1: beat the shit out of it. In endgame anyway, Steve
Speaker 1: is also Rosie, falling deeply in love with Peggy Carter
Speaker 1: of cool love and this lady he thinks she's the Beasneys.
Speaker 1: Sometime later, the Commandos are assaulting a Hydra supply train
Speaker 1: in order to capture artam Zola, but it's a trap.
Speaker 1: Bucky falls into a deep revene and dies.
Speaker 2: He dies definitely coming back.
Speaker 1: That's it, But the Allies do you managed to capture Artamzola.
Speaker 1: Zola gives Rogers the location of like the main Hydro
Speaker 1: base where the Red Skull is, and at that base,
Speaker 1: Red Skull is preparing to use the Tesseract and object
Speaker 1: of immense power that's also the Space Stone. He's going
Speaker 1: to use it to basically nuke America and win the
Speaker 1: war and also nuke the Nazis and take over Nazi Germany.
Speaker 1: Captain America defeats Hydra, beats the Red Skull, and like
Speaker 1: the hero he is, goes down with the Red Skull's
Speaker 1: plane and the Tesserak to the bottom of the North
Speaker 1: Sea and says to Peggy Carter as he's going down,
Speaker 1: I sure wish we could have had that dance. There's
Speaker 1: tears all around and he crashes much, much, much Later
Speaker 1: in the year twenty eleven, Nick Fury wakes up Steve
Speaker 1: Rodgers and tells him he has a job for him.
Speaker 1: We go to nineteen ninety one. Russian Assassin, Secret Assassin,
Speaker 1: the Winter Soldier, who's been running around for decades assassinating
Speaker 1: important people, assassinates Howard and Martha Stark. Because Howard is very,
Speaker 1: very close, not even close in fact, has succeeded in
Speaker 1: recreating the Super Soldier series. Their deaths are staged to
Speaker 1: look like a car accident, which everybody thinks it's an
Speaker 1: accident for years and years. We go to twenty ten.
Speaker 1: Thaddeus Thunderbolt Ross, a general, is one of many Department
Speaker 1: of Defense contractors and Army related Defense Department people who
Speaker 1: are looking to recreate the Super Soldier serum. This leads
Speaker 1: to a laboratory accident in which Betty's his daughter's boyfriend
Speaker 1: Bruce Banner, is bombarded with gamma rays and turns into
Speaker 1: the fucking Hulk. Ross then chases the Hulk all around
Speaker 1: the world, and he also juices up with like off
Speaker 1: brand Super Soldier Serum a Russian mercenary Emil Blonsky in
Speaker 1: order to hopefully capture Bruce Banner. Emil eventually turns into
Speaker 1: the Gamma powered abomination. The Hulk has to fight the
Speaker 1: abomination in Harlem. All of Harlem like basically gets destroyed.
Speaker 1: But what you know, it doesn't get destroyed. Rosie Ross
Speaker 1: is get destroyed. He is, so he's on the express
Speaker 1: Elemator to the top, all of the top. Nothing that
Speaker 1: he does can possibly hurt him. And it's honestly one
Speaker 1: of the most realistic things that happens in Barbara movies.
Speaker 1: It's true.
Speaker 2: It's true. It's true.
Speaker 1: That brings us to twenty twelve fictional twenty twelve and
Speaker 1: marvels the Avengers. The job that Nick Fury has for
Speaker 1: Steve is to lead his elite strike team, the Avengers.
Speaker 1: Other members include Howard's son Tony the Iron Man, famed
Speaker 1: Gamma researcher, It's fugitive Bruce Banner, recently seen being pursued
Speaker 1: by Thaddeus Ross as Guardian God Thor shield assassins Clint
Speaker 1: Barton and Natasha Romanov. You know the story. Thor's brother
Speaker 1: Loki strikes a deal. Oak has takeover of Earth he
Speaker 1: uses a scepter that turns out to be the Space
Speaker 1: Stone to open a doorway and allow the Chachari to
Speaker 1: invade New York, but they are defeated by the for
Speaker 1: the first time ever assemble Avengers. And with that, Wow,
Speaker 1: we will take a break to take to listen to
Speaker 1: a word from our bonderagrement. Yeah, and we're back, Rosie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Time.
Speaker 1: Why a fucking time?
Speaker 2: Like, can you remember the first time you saw the
Speaker 2: first Avengers movie? Like, what a time? I really cannot well,
Speaker 2: A time.
Speaker 1: I was going absolutely crazy. I remember the I remember
Speaker 1: when they debuted the first trailer during the Super Bowl
Speaker 1: and I was not necessarily I did not have high
Speaker 1: hopes for the movie. But then I saw understandable railer
Speaker 1: and I was like, hold on a second, the Hulk
Speaker 1: looks incredible. Is this not gonna be great?
Speaker 2: Is it gonna be good?
Speaker 1: And it was really great? Uh, Next up The Winter Soldier.
Speaker 1: The year is twenty fourteen. When not working with the Avengers,
Speaker 1: Steve is out in the field carrying out all types
Speaker 1: of secret shield missions for Nick Fury. One of these
Speaker 1: the rescue of the crew of the La Marie Star, which,
Speaker 1: by the way, Nick Fury set up the hijack that
Speaker 1: kind of goes under talked about. Is Nick Fury, I
Speaker 1: do think we should talk about hired hired mercenaries to
Speaker 1: hijack a Shield vessel so that he could get intel.
Speaker 1: Steve during the rescue, op realizes that Natasha has other orders,
Speaker 1: and that is to secure intel on Project Insight. Insight
Speaker 1: is a project that goes all the way to the
Speaker 1: top of the US Defense Establishment, to the Secretary of
Speaker 1: the World Security Council, Alexander Pierce, who is Nick Fury's boss.
Speaker 1: Alexander Piers is also the leader of Hydra, the reconstituted
Speaker 1: secret society. Hydra, the Nazi society went underground after World
Speaker 1: War Two and because some of its important scientists, chief
Speaker 1: among them Martem Zola, were imported to the United States
Speaker 1: to help the US get the technological edge during the
Speaker 1: Cold War, they kept doing Hydra shit and were able
Speaker 1: to turn Shield over the years into a secret Hydra
Speaker 1: scandalous organization, absolutely scandalous. Hydra Slash Shield puts the Winter
Speaker 1: Soldier into the field in order to keep their conspiracy secret.
Speaker 1: This legendary Russian assassin, who again has been active for decades,
Speaker 1: kills Nick Fury. He's dead. Nick Fury is dead. That's it.
Speaker 1: Steve Rodgers is framed for the crime, is forced for
Speaker 1: the first of many, many many times to go on
Speaker 1: the run.
Speaker 2: Steve was coming on there on this guy. He loves
Speaker 2: to take his little motorbike and go on the run,
Speaker 2: especially when he's helping his pal or his pals.
Speaker 1: That's right now. One of his pals who he has
Speaker 1: met while jogging is Sam Wilson, an Air Force veteran
Speaker 1: and former member of the Elite Winged para rescue Spot.
Speaker 1: They wear these winged jet packs and they fly around.
Speaker 1: They do incredible feats. And so when Steve goes on
Speaker 1: the run, the only people that he feels he can
Speaker 1: turn to are one Natasha Romanov, who I believe, uh,
Speaker 1: they have intercourse, Like I believe that they make love.
Speaker 2: This is peak. This is peak at the time when
Speaker 2: they couldn't put black Widow into a movie without her
Speaker 2: being the love interest. And these two would definitely don't
Speaker 2: come to knock in if the caravan is rocking.
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, Like, I believe it. I
Speaker 1: believe it was knocking. I believe that it is knocking.
Speaker 1: And then the other person is Sam his jogging buddy,
Speaker 1: so they team up and they duke it out with
Speaker 1: the Winter Soldier in the streets of DC. But then
Speaker 1: Steve figures out that the Winter Soldier is his former
Speaker 1: best friend for Brooklyn Funky Barnes. He's also still alive
Speaker 1: after eighty years after World War Two and after he
Speaker 1: seemed like he died at the hands of Hydra. Barnes
Speaker 1: has been brainwashed and when he's not active, he is
Speaker 1: kept in cryostasis. Steve, Natasha, Sam, and Nick who is
Speaker 1: alive for the lja's plans. That's right, Foyle. Hydro's plans
Speaker 1: to use insight to proactively execute all threats to their power.
Speaker 1: This you know, like guys like Bruce Banner and Stephen
Speaker 1: Strange and more. Shield is disbanded because it's revealed to
Speaker 1: be a Nazi organization. Pierce is killed and the Winter
Speaker 1: Soldier escapes for all this and goes underground. Age of Ultron,
Speaker 1: Tony accidentally creates a super AI. The AI breaks free,
Speaker 1: it makes a body out of vibranium, but it's eventually defeated.
Speaker 1: But Tony's recklessness leads to the destruction of Novigrad, the
Speaker 1: capital city of Sokovia and it's really, really, really bad.
Speaker 1: I I Corumba votes it's very bad.
Speaker 2: Like the Avengers have killed many, many people in the MBC.
Speaker 1: Like this is colony's fault.
Speaker 2: This is the collapteral damage that Tony Stark has created.
Speaker 2: Is bad, bad news, bad, bad fucking news.
Speaker 1: So the groundwork for a global movement against the Avengers
Speaker 1: and against super powered individuals is laid with this movie.
Speaker 1: In the Destruction of Sokovia, Captain America Civil War Kap
Speaker 1: and his team Natasha Wanda and Sam Track X Shield
Speaker 1: and hydra Operative brock Rumlow aka crossbuondes to Lagos, Nigeria.
Speaker 1: There's a fight, but the fight results in the deaths
Speaker 1: of dozens of civilians, including Wakanda aid workers. The fallout
Speaker 1: from Lagos and Sekovia is that, not to mention the
Speaker 1: destruction of Harlem and the wreckage of New York, which
Speaker 1: they shouldn't be blamed for New York, but I get it.
Speaker 1: The result of all of this is the Secovia Accords.
Speaker 1: US Secretary of State, this is shocking. US Secretary of
Speaker 1: State Thunderbolt Ross failing to the top, continuing to vault
Speaker 1: at the top, informs the Avengers that listen, you're gonna
Speaker 1: have to register or there's gonna be problems. You're gonna
Speaker 1: be arrested, that you're gonna be a fugitives, you're gonna
Speaker 1: be outlaws. It's gonna be that you can't undertake missions
Speaker 1: now without the express clearance of the US government. Tony
Speaker 1: chastened by the whole Ultron thing, and Sokoby is like,
Speaker 1: I think I think we need someone to limit us.
Speaker 1: I believe this. Steve is like, well, I didn't destroy
Speaker 1: the city, that's your fault, so I don't believe that.
Speaker 1: I don't think that we should have to register the
Speaker 1: government with the government and do everything that they say.
Speaker 1: That seems really scary to me. Steve tracks Bucky to
Speaker 1: Berlin and tries to bring him in, but unfortunately, Bucky
Speaker 1: has been framed for the murder of the King of Kanda,
Speaker 1: so the king's son, now King T'Challa of Kanda aka
Speaker 1: the Black Panther, is trying to bring Bucky to justice
Speaker 1: or just take revenge for the murder of his father. Eventually,
Speaker 1: Bucky is captured by German authorities, but Baron Zimo Sikovi,
Speaker 1: an intelligence officer and a guy with a huge axe
Speaker 1: to grind sneaks into the facility and Bucky's Winter Soldier programming.
Speaker 1: Cap managed to manages to apprehend Bucky before he does
Speaker 1: too much damage, and Bucky tells Steve that Baron's EMO
Speaker 1: is behind all of this. Baron's Emo plans to go
Speaker 1: to the Siberian base where all the other Winter Soldiers
Speaker 1: are so he maybe he can build himself like a
Speaker 1: brainwatched Army. Cap and his team go to the airport
Speaker 1: so they can fly to Siberia. They end up fighting
Speaker 1: Ironman's team, now including Spider Man. Cap and Buck managed
Speaker 1: to get away and then the rest of CAP's team
Speaker 1: is interned by Thaddeus Ross into the supermax prison known
Speaker 1: as the Raft. You're under arrest, You're under in Siberia.
Speaker 2: I gotta say, I gotta say, look, I love this movie, right,
Speaker 2: and I do support I do support Captain America. I
Speaker 2: just think it's so funny that he essentially like creates
Speaker 2: an international incident because he wants to save as bestie.
Speaker 2: I love that energy. I love that I believe it in.
Speaker 2: He believes he is a good guy and he will
Speaker 2: fight everyone to say his boy. That's why people's ship
Speaker 2: Captain America and they went to Salja.
Speaker 1: Maybe you just also say this Winter Soldier and Civil
Speaker 1: War have three of the five best action scenes. And
Speaker 1: Mao question, it's like really great. In Siberia, Tony, just
Speaker 1: as Zimo intended, figures out that Bucky killed his parents
Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety one. It's shocking. Zemo's true plan is
Speaker 1: now revealed. It's to just tear the Avengers apart for
Speaker 1: destroying his homes of Novigrad and Sekovia, and it works.
Speaker 1: Cap and Bucky fight Tony. Tony's armor is destroyed. Cap
Speaker 1: goes out underground, the Avengers are torn apart. Bucky goes
Speaker 1: to Wakanda to hide out, and the Avengers are finished. Later,
Speaker 1: Steve infiltrates the raft and frees his his buddies, including
Speaker 1: Sam Wilson. They go underground again. We go to Black Widow.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, fattiest boss. I guess he's having a lot
Speaker 1: of stress because he's like on his third bypass surgery.
Speaker 2: They mentioned it would be imagine how stressful it would
Speaker 2: be to deal with the Avengers on like a daily
Speaker 2: basis trying. Yeah, if you're trying to navigate like the
Speaker 2: rest of the world, and everything, and the Avengers just
Speaker 2: keep not listening to what you're doing. And your daughter,
Speaker 2: Betty Ross is also in love with the Hulk. That's
Speaker 2: very stressful to him.
Speaker 1: So Thaddeus Ross believes that Natasha helped Steve escape from
Speaker 1: the Raft because Steve is not a sneaky guy. How
Speaker 1: is all of a sudden He's sneaking into the Raft
Speaker 1: and beat up all the marshals and getting people out.
Speaker 1: I believe that Natasha had something to do with this,
Speaker 1: so he chases her all around the world and never
Speaker 1: captures her, but then eventually he does capture her at
Speaker 1: the end of the film after she destroys the Red Room,
Speaker 1: but she escapes yet again off camera. Infinity War Thanos
Speaker 1: comes to Earth looking for the Stones, Cap and Sam
Speaker 1: and the rest of his team include Surface when Thanos's
Speaker 1: lieutenants attack Wanda Envision in Scotland. Ross is not happy
Speaker 1: that the Avengers are now like running around again and
Speaker 1: Cap is running around again, and he tells Rody to
Speaker 1: arrest Steve Rogers, but Rody's like fuck you. He hangs
Speaker 1: up a come on as if God and is eventually
Speaker 1: court martialed, but Schizm's remain the Avengers are fighting separately
Speaker 1: cap in one team fight Thanos's army and Wakanda, Ironman
Speaker 1: and another hastily assembled group fight them fight Sanos personally
Speaker 1: on Titan, and everybody loses. Thanos assembles the Infinity Gauntlet,
Speaker 1: he snaps. Half of the living beings in the universe disappear,
Speaker 1: including Sam Wilson, Bucky Barnes, and Thaddius Ross. Get snapped, bitch,
Speaker 1: snapped up, and we will snap back to your ears
Speaker 1: after word from us front. Yeah, and we're back ending.
Speaker 1: Five years have passed after the snap universe and chaos,
Speaker 1: Thanos is gone. Steve and the remnants of the Avengers
Speaker 1: track him to a desolate planet where Thor beheads him
Speaker 1: and everybody acts like Thor did a bad thing. They're shocked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know what you meant.
Speaker 1: This guy killed trillions and eventually, Scott Laying the act
Speaker 1: Man pops out of the quantum realm and everyone realizes
Speaker 1: time travel as possible. Tony perfects the process. The Avengers
Speaker 1: travel back to various points in time to assemble the
Speaker 1: Stones before Thanos gets them. They bring everyone back defeat
Speaker 1: a slightly younger version of Thanos who traveled from the
Speaker 1: past to get the stones. They beat him, but Tony
Speaker 1: dies in the process. They go to return all the stones.
Speaker 1: Steve goes back to return the stones, but then is like,
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna stay here. I'm a Mary,
Speaker 1: Peggy Carter in the year nineteen forty nine, Steve, Stephen, everybody.
Speaker 1: They turn around at the spot where they're you know,
Speaker 1: going into time where they have the time machine set up,
Speaker 1: and they turn around. There's Steve. There's Steve. He's old now,
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. Steve looks Joe Biden is but still sharp,
Speaker 1: and he says, know what, I can't do it anymore.
Speaker 1: This is for you, Sam Wilson. This is the Captain
Speaker 1: America Shield. You are the guy. You are the next
Speaker 1: Captain America. I believe in you. Thaddeus Ross, returned to
Speaker 1: life post snap, attends Tony's funeral with all the people
Speaker 1: that he's chosen to try to arrest, and who knows
Speaker 1: how that conversation went very weird that he shows up
Speaker 1: Falkon and the Winter Soldier on Disney Plus. Six months
Speaker 1: after the victory over Thanos, Sam is struggling with the
Speaker 1: responsibilities and whether or not he wants to take up
Speaker 1: the Shield, He and Bucky for a tenuous alliance. Bucky
Speaker 1: is in therapy court mandated therapy after his many accidental
Speaker 1: Winters Soldier activations. They go into the field to fight
Speaker 1: the Flag Smashers, a terrorist group that's juiced up on
Speaker 1: super Soldier serum thanks to the mysterious power Broker who
Speaker 1: resides in Madreport. Behind it all is Baron Zimo pulling
Speaker 1: various strings. The US Government, seeing Sam waffling, decides to
Speaker 1: override Steve Steve's decision and they name John Walker as
Speaker 1: their next Time in America. We learn over the course
Speaker 1: of this series that Baltimore resident Isaiah Bradley, a Korean
Speaker 1: War veteran, is part of a previously unknown super Soldier
Speaker 1: program and he is one of dozens of such soldiers
Speaker 1: who were exped and experimented on by Shield and Hydra
Speaker 1: and the were just cut loose and thrown away. In
Speaker 1: the end, Zemo and the Smashers are defeated. The power
Speaker 1: broker is revealed to be none other than ex Shield
Speaker 1: agent Sharon Carter. What what last scene in Captain America
Speaker 1: Civil War, Okay Walker gets Super Soldier serum and becomes
Speaker 1: US Agent. Bucky takes his therapy very seriously and finds
Speaker 1: a measure of peace. Isaiah Bradley's sacrifices officially recognized when
Speaker 1: they put some information about him and his picture and
Speaker 1: all that stuff in the National History Museum, and Sam decides,
Speaker 1: you know what, I am gonna become Captain America. Also
Speaker 1: Ross orders in a post credit scene, Ross orders his
Speaker 1: underling Major Donovan to begin secretly tracking all super powered individuals,
Speaker 1: as if they weren't doing that all.
Speaker 2: I know they were doing that already, Like come on,
Speaker 2: come on now.
Speaker 1: This sets us up for Captain America Brave New World
Speaker 1: because we're gonna find out in this film and has
Speaker 1: not a spoiler because this isn't all the trailers three
Speaker 1: time bypass undergoer multiple time fucking up every mission that
Speaker 1: he's every part of time. Thaddeus Ross is now president. Wow,
Speaker 1: So you're bad?
Speaker 2: Seems bad, guys. So yeah, before before we jump into
Speaker 2: the comics history it did we are in a weird situation.
Speaker 2: This movie literally comes out. We are recording this right
Speaker 2: now Friday, January thirty first, so it comes out in
Speaker 2: two weeks. What do you feel like the temperature check
Speaker 2: is on this movie? Like is the hype there, like
Speaker 2: are we hearing are you seeing people like excited for it?
Speaker 2: Like this is taking some of the older trends of
Speaker 2: the MCU, Like you know, they would usually cast a
Speaker 2: character actor. Obviously they had to recast Patatius Ross. They
Speaker 2: went with Harrison Ford. This seems like Marvel's setting up
Speaker 2: to be a huge movie. But what's your feeling on it?
Speaker 2: How do you how are you feeling going in?
Speaker 1: I think that the I think that the buzzes has
Speaker 1: been so negative for so long, with all the reshoots
Speaker 1: and the either cutting or rewriting of Sabra and all
Speaker 1: the stuff that's been around this film, and you know,
Speaker 1: the kind of political climate turning against Disney and Disney
Speaker 1: properties in general. I believe that this we've now reached
Speaker 1: the point where my personally, my expectations are solo that
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm going to go into this movie
Speaker 1: and be like, you know what, that was pretty good?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that I too feel like that has been the
Speaker 2: route that this is going, rather than with that man
Speaker 2: in Quantumnia, where they were essentially like, this is the
Speaker 2: best movie we've ever gonna make, and we've made exactly
Speaker 2: what the fans want and everything they seem to be
Speaker 2: going for a more like low key. I definitely think
Speaker 2: they want to be channeling the Winter Soldier energy aka
Speaker 2: the movie The Winter Soldier, that kind of espionage situation.
Speaker 2: I'm interested. I think that I wasn't the hugest fan
Speaker 2: of Falcon in The Winter Soldier and its representation of
Speaker 2: Sam Wilson. I'm a big Sam Wilson in the comics.
Speaker 1: That was also Covid exactly. I will say that that's
Speaker 1: the one plus Marvel show where I'm like, I'll give
Speaker 1: him a pass on that one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say, going to be good, this.
Speaker 1: Is naturally this problem.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And also I will say as well, something that
Speaker 2: has excited me about the trailers, even though you know
Speaker 2: I'm going in warily is I love the way that
Speaker 2: they're using Sam's suit in the action. We get to
Speaker 2: see him, you know, cut through a car with his wings.
Speaker 2: I think we're also looks like he's probably got a
Speaker 2: vibranium suit, because we seem to have some kind of
Speaker 2: kinic absorption. So I hope Sam's really going to get
Speaker 2: to be a hero here, and I hope that people
Speaker 2: are going to get to kind of fall in love
Speaker 2: with him. Okay, Aaron says, do we think the suit
Speaker 2: is vibrainium or adamantium. Well, I would say the kinetic absorption.
Speaker 2: I think it's I think it is vibranium. But I
Speaker 2: do think that just as the original Black Panther movie
Speaker 2: and Claw and kind of the introduction of vibranium as
Speaker 2: a natural resource that MCU would want like people in
Speaker 2: the mc would want, I do think that we should
Speaker 2: expect to probably hear about adamantium sometime soon. There is
Speaker 2: also a big chance that one of the reasons that
Speaker 2: Thaddius Ross goes on the transformative journey that he will
Speaker 2: go on in this movie is we'll talk about more
Speaker 2: in a moment in the comics is probably because they
Speaker 2: know that there's a threat of mutation and all that
Speaker 2: kind of stuff. Obviously, I'm excited because the eternals and
Speaker 2: Arashim will be mentioned here, so finally maybe we can understand.
Speaker 1: What people are doing about that. Maybe there's solestional in
Speaker 1: the ocean, guys, anyone.
Speaker 2: Anyone interested ever heard of it? But I do think
Speaker 2: that with all the struggles of the MCU and everything
Speaker 2: and the ups and downs, I do still think as
Speaker 2: I will get to when we talk about comics in
Speaker 2: a minute. Sam Wilson's very important character in Marvel history.
Speaker 2: I think Anthony Macki does a great job bringing him
Speaker 2: to life, and I hope that after maybe the kind
Speaker 2: of slightly lacking in impact of Cap in the Winter
Speaker 2: Falcon and The Winter Soldier, I think that I'm hoping
Speaker 2: that this at least does Sam Wilson justice. And I'm
Speaker 2: interested to see because it feels crazy to be two
Speaker 2: weeks out and even in our discord, this is not
Speaker 2: what the people are talking about, you know, the people
Speaker 2: are talking about everything else. So I'm gonna be yes,
Speaker 2: it was, And I just need to say, it's Tiama
Speaker 2: who is in the ocean, not Arisham. Arisham is a
Speaker 2: celestial How.
Speaker 1: Could you it was me?
Speaker 2: How can I ever get this wrong about my favorite
Speaker 2: move or my favorite movie. The Eternal is on paper.
Speaker 1: There's some fun, dramatic juice. Yes, it's going into this movie,
Speaker 1: like the President has arrested Captain America multiple times, Like
Speaker 1: in his past job as Secretary of State and Avengers Hunter,
Speaker 1: he has imprisoned Sam Wilson, currently Captain America in the
Speaker 1: Raft multiple times. And I feel like that's a really
Speaker 1: cool like conflict to just have. That's your boss. Your
Speaker 1: boss has put you in prison and now, and so
Speaker 1: I feel like that's a really cool place to start dramatically,
Speaker 1: and so I hope that I'm hoping that this movie
Speaker 1: is cool. Should we go to comics Corner and let's
Speaker 1: do it?
Speaker 2: Corner up.
Speaker 1: Welcome to comics Corner, where we're now going to where
Speaker 1: Rosie is now going to walk you through the origins
Speaker 1: of and the developments around some of these characters, notably
Speaker 1: read Hulk, who is a more recent character in a
Speaker 1: comics canon.
Speaker 2: Yes, I will I will begin with Sam Wilson, as
Speaker 2: it will be easy to justly through pun intended. So Ever,
Speaker 2: since Sam was given cap Shield at the end of Endgame,
Speaker 2: people have said, oh, it's Sam Wilson. Was he have
Speaker 2: a Captain America? Yes, though it did take a long
Speaker 2: time for him to get there, but his connection to
Speaker 2: Captain America and specifically Steve Rodgers was there from the
Speaker 2: very beginning. He was one of the first black superheroes
Speaker 2: really with any prominence in Marvel Comics. In fact, Stanley
Speaker 2: actually introduced the Falcon at a chat at Duke University.
Speaker 2: His talk was titled Comics as a reflection of contemporary culture,
Speaker 2: and he expressed kind of the need to keep comics
Speaker 2: updated with social movements. Falcon's first appearance was in nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine and Captain America one seventeen, and from then
Speaker 2: on the characters just had this really deep connection. Steve
Speaker 2: was the one who encouraged Sam to take on the
Speaker 2: heroic mantle of Falcon, inspired by the wild bird that
Speaker 2: the Harlem resident had trained, because in the original comics,
Speaker 2: Sam essentially had a connection to birds that began as
Speaker 2: a non superheroic power and evolved into avian telepathy essentially,
Speaker 2: and the pair were actually so connected that in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy one, just two years after Sam was first introduced,
Speaker 2: the publication title of the flagship Captain America book was
Speaker 2: changed to Captain America and the Falcon and stayed that
Speaker 2: way for seven years. Sam and Steve have long been
Speaker 2: best friends and compatriots and fellow heroes, with the pair
Speaker 2: in one of my favorite issues even apparently sharing a
Speaker 2: bed during Jack Kirby's Captain America one ninety three, where
Speaker 2: they debated slavery and civil war, and Sam basically just
Speaker 2: told Steve the real, real talk. It was late to
Speaker 2: confirmed by Marvel that they are in two beds that
Speaker 2: are just very close. But I don't know if I
Speaker 2: believe that their close relationship, along with Sam's heroism and
Speaker 2: kind of moral compass, led to a large segment of
Speaker 2: fans just constantly asking like, will Sam ever become Captain America?
Speaker 2: Because throughout the years, as we know, Steve Rogers has
Speaker 2: given it up, he has become nomad. We've seen people
Speaker 2: like US agent John Walker take over the mantle, but
Speaker 2: fans would often write in and be like, when will
Speaker 2: Sam take the mantle? What does Sam Wilson have to
Speaker 2: bring now? In the comics. I will say this is
Speaker 2: something I talk about a lot when we talk about
Speaker 2: Sam Wilson. Sam Wilson was originally a social worker, and
Speaker 2: I think that is something that I was kind of
Speaker 2: pained to see them take out of the movies, even
Speaker 2: though they play into it a little bit with him
Speaker 2: being a veteran and a counselor, but he was a
Speaker 2: social worker then, as many black comic characters deal with.
Speaker 2: There was some a really racist retcon where they made
Speaker 2: it that actually that was fake and he just said
Speaker 2: that to help Captain America and really he was a
Speaker 2: gangster named Snap Wilson and luckily that was really bad. Yes,
Speaker 2: there's some classically bad stuff. And then eventually it was
Speaker 2: brought back to him being a social worker and it
Speaker 2: was all to do with the Red skull Shenanigans in people.
Speaker 2: So he's had a really complicated road. But I will
Speaker 2: say something that's very cool is, as you notice from
Speaker 2: the mentions of the villains there, like Red, Red Skull
Speaker 2: and stuff, Sam is inherently a Captain America character, Like
Speaker 2: this is where he is and this was always going
Speaker 2: to be his path and if you can believe it.
Speaker 2: So he was introduced guys in nineteen sixty nine and
Speaker 2: it wasn't until twenty fourteen that he took on the mantle,
Speaker 2: and that was in the final issue of Rick Ramenda
Speaker 2: and Carlos Pacheco's Captain America run, where there was a
Speaker 2: momentous kind of sequence that would see the Avengers Endgame one.
Speaker 2: After Steve has turned into an old man far closer
Speaker 2: to the reality of his actual age than his Super
Speaker 2: Soldier serum version, he has to choose a new America
Speaker 2: Captain America, and alongside Peggy, he chooses Sam to take
Speaker 2: on the role, and then a month later all new
Speaker 2: Captain America, which had Stuart immanon legend on art duties
Speaker 2: with Remeenda writing, and that was kind of where we
Speaker 2: saw Sam Wilson as Captain America for the very first time.
Speaker 2: In twenty fifteen, Sam got a new series called Captain
Speaker 2: America Sam Wilson, helmed by controversial writer and failed politician
Speaker 2: Nick Spencer, leading into the much maligned Hydra cap Art
Speaker 2: arc where Captain America was a Nazi terrible stuff off
Speaker 2: and the fact that Sam was Captain America at all,
Speaker 2: that was really what mattered. And as he's now kind
Speaker 2: of taken on the mantle in the movies and the
Speaker 2: TV show, something that I think a lot of fans
Speaker 2: have always wanted is to allow black creatives in the
Speaker 2: space of Sam Wilson, which to that point was not
Speaker 2: the case. Both of Sam Wilson's Captain America stories then
Speaker 2: were written by white writers and no rememders. Kind of
Speaker 2: exploration was seen as relatively good one. In the Spencer series,
Speaker 2: you know, there were things like Sam Wilson has to
Speaker 2: go up against Black Lives Matter protesters or a team
Speaker 2: of superpowered Sjw's and luckily we've kind of seen even
Speaker 2: though there were critiques of the Sam Wilson representation as
Speaker 2: CAP in the TV show on Disney Plus, we were
Speaker 2: at least getting a black creative team telling these stories,
Speaker 2: and it looks like we are gonna get the same
Speaker 2: thing now and in the comics currently, we also do
Speaker 2: have Evan Narcis writing the Captain America Sam Wilson book,
Speaker 2: which is really fun plays into a lot of what
Speaker 2: we're gonna see in the movies with facing him off
Speaker 2: against Red Hulk, and yeah, if you've ever wondered, like,
Speaker 2: what are Sam's powers in the comics, well, originally he
Speaker 2: was non superpowered. Then it was revealed that he had
Speaker 2: superpowered telepathy towards birds, which is how he had red
Speaker 2: wing his falcon, and then that became telepathy to all birds. Fantastic.
Speaker 2: And then also one of my favorite things that I
Speaker 2: hope we see in the movie is he's a master
Speaker 2: martial artist because he was taught by none other than
Speaker 2: Captain America Steven he is in he's Stephen Rodgers, a
Speaker 2: famous judo master. Of course, peak human condition, peak human strength,
Speaker 2: he's basically the healthiest that you can be and he
Speaker 2: got just like in the MCU, he got his wings,
Speaker 2: and Black Panther was actually the one who supplied him
Speaker 2: with these kind of hard light wings. Tony Stark has
Speaker 2: helped him with that suit. And this is very interesting,
Speaker 2: I would be I would assume that the hood with
Speaker 2: the glasses is what's going to explain this. In the comics,
Speaker 2: he actually has like a cybernetic implant that allows him
Speaker 2: to kind of see what birds can see. In case
Speaker 2: you didn't know, I'm I'm a big fan of the
Speaker 2: bird part of Falcon. I feel like we haven't got
Speaker 2: into that enough. In the MCU, it's all drones, drones, drones,
Speaker 2: But I will be interesting to see the version of
Speaker 2: Red Wing that they attempt to do. Also in the comics,
Speaker 2: there was a time when Sam Wilson was insinuated to
Speaker 2: be a mutant and that's how he could speak to
Speaker 2: a good old Red Wing. But actually it was in
Speaker 2: the end connected to Red School's use of the cosmic Cube.
Speaker 2: And of course his number one paraphernalia and weapon is
Speaker 2: Steve Rodgers shield, which he now carries. So that basically
Speaker 2: takes us to how Sam Wilson became the beautiful hero
Speaker 2: known as the Falcon and eventually Captain America. I'm big
Speaker 2: Sam Wilson fan. He is a very important character, someone
Speaker 2: who has numerous incredible comic book appearances and who I
Speaker 2: hope will get his shine and his flowers in this
Speaker 2: movie as Captain America as he should have been, you know,
Speaker 2: since probably the seventies that should have happened. And now
Speaker 2: onto Thaddeus Ross aka the Red Hulk. Now this whiler.
Speaker 2: Yeah spoiler, oh yes, spoiler spoiler. Daddius Ross is an old,
Speaker 2: old old character first debuted in The Incredible Hulk number
Speaker 2: one from nineteen sixty two, created by Stanley and Jack Kirby,
Speaker 2: of course, and it would be you know, decades later
Speaker 2: that the Hulk's antagonist who was mostly just his antagonists
Speaker 2: because the Hulk was banging his daughter Betsy Ross. And
Speaker 2: years years later, in two thousand and eight, we would
Speaker 2: learn that there was a new Hulk, the Red Hulk
Speaker 2: or at the time, which I think is really funny.
Speaker 2: I don't think this stuck the Roulk. They tried that one,
Speaker 2: or the Incrediable Hulk with the big Red He's just
Speaker 2: Red Hulk. That was in volume two of the Hulk
Speaker 2: is Comics created by none other than Jeff Loeb and
Speaker 2: Ed McGuinness Ed McGinnis fantastic artist in Hulk number one.
Speaker 2: This was a massive moment because it has something that
Speaker 2: had actually been like seated and teased for a long time,
Speaker 2: because in the Incredible Hulk TV series there was a
Speaker 2: conversation that maybe there should be a red version of
Speaker 2: the Hulk who was an evil version, but that never happened,
Speaker 2: and then eventually jok Asada was like, let's introduce this
Speaker 2: scary new red Hulk, and nobody knew who he was.
Speaker 2: That was like the biggest thing about it was there
Speaker 2: was a very scary, new aggressive Hulk. He murders Hulk adversaries.
Speaker 2: He's murdering when the Wendigo, he's murdering the Abomination. He's
Speaker 2: destroying the Hellic Carrier of Shields, so he doesn't really
Speaker 2: have a side. He's essentially like a Godzilla esque force
Speaker 2: of nature. He's fighting his way through San Francisco, causing
Speaker 2: earthquakes and eventually is defeated by a team up of
Speaker 2: Hulk and Thor. Then we start to get other teams
Speaker 2: who are trying to work out who he is. People
Speaker 2: like the Collector, people like the Silver Surfer. I mean,
Speaker 2: the Red Hulk is so powerful that at one point
Speaker 2: in the comics he actually siphons the power Cosmic from
Speaker 2: the Silver Surfer, essentially, you know, killing him and then
Speaker 2: goes on the Silver Surface Board killing nay More, Tiger Shark,
Speaker 2: Doctor Strange, Baron Mordo, the Grandmaster Psychoman. I love Psychoman.
Speaker 2: That's a great poll and uh, but Galactus is like,
Speaker 2: that's not happening, takes away the power cosmic and everyone
Speaker 2: is born again. So then you start to work out, well,
Speaker 2: where did this Red Holk come from? Is this a
Speaker 2: gamma situation? Is it a different kind of event that
Speaker 2: caused the Hawk. No, Like every problem in the MCU
Speaker 2: and in the Marvel comics, pretty much every problem can
Speaker 2: be drawn back to one thing. People trying to recreate
Speaker 2: the super Soldier serum Jason Will.
Speaker 1: They have a stop super Soldier they have ever stopped.
Speaker 2: So you got This is what I think people don't
Speaker 2: really understand, especially in a modern era of comics where
Speaker 2: a lot of issues and a lot of series don't
Speaker 2: go past you know, five issues. It's a mini series.
Speaker 2: Maybe it's a limited series at best, with twelve it
Speaker 2: was two years later that we finally found out who
Speaker 2: Red Hulk was, which is pretty unbelievable.
Speaker 1: In the stretched it out like she thrung it out.
Speaker 2: They made him a very scary character. You know, we
Speaker 2: did have in two thousand and nine there was a
Speaker 2: Code Red story arc which was where we got Red
Speaker 2: chee h cool character.
Speaker 1: I like it, and they have those kind of overarching mysteries.
Speaker 1: They've done it a couple of times, obviously Thunderbolts. Thunderbolts
Speaker 1: is one of those, but I like when they do that,
Speaker 1: like who is the who could this new?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really really fun, and you could have comics
Speaker 2: that were going on long enough that at this time
Speaker 2: you could take two years to reveal it. So in
Speaker 2: a storyline that was called Full of the Hulk's Gamma,
Speaker 2: the Red Hulk is essentially revealed to have killed General
Speaker 2: Ross at the behest of Bruce Banner, shocking twist, making
Speaker 2: it seem like the pair were teamed up, but that
Speaker 2: was not true. What had actually had happened in the
Speaker 2: very beloved World Well Hulk's storyline, which was kind of
Speaker 2: the follow up to this, and I really like I
Speaker 2: think this storyline is really really fun it's Greg Park,
Speaker 2: it's Jeff Lob. It's not as iconic as like Planet
Speaker 2: Hulk or World Willhulk, the original one. But this is
Speaker 2: really fun because you get to find out that redche
Speaker 2: Hulk is actually Betty Ross and that, just like Nick
Speaker 2: Fury in the MCU, Dundbolt Ross was not actually killed,
Speaker 2: the version of him that was killed was actually a
Speaker 2: life model decoy, and that the real Red Hulk is
Speaker 2: actually Betty's dad, Dunderbolt Rock. And this is where we
Speaker 2: start to learn a little bit more about the Red
Speaker 2: Hulk and his powers. He is very very very very
Speaker 2: very powerful. But if he overheats, that's right, and then
Speaker 2: you end up in a situation where he can be exhausted,
Speaker 2: he can be beaten, and that will probably play into
Speaker 2: the movie as we see it.
Speaker 1: And that is the main difference. So Hulk Bruce Banner Hulk.
Speaker 1: He can syriically get as strong as he needs to
Speaker 1: get to fight anybody, depending on if he can get
Speaker 1: angry enough, if he has time to get angry exactly,
Speaker 1: so his strength increases with anger. Red Hulk. The angrier
Speaker 1: he gets, the hotter he gets. He gets really hot.
Speaker 1: He doesn't get strong, he's already like Hulk level strong,
Speaker 1: but his strength does not increase, the temperature of his
Speaker 1: body increases.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And it's very very interesting because A I
Speaker 2: love this because it's basically comic book. It's very comic
Speaker 2: book kind of law and comic book, almost book like explanation.
Speaker 2: Why is he read? Oh he's just hot, you know.
Speaker 2: I love that. That's really really fun. But yeah, he
Speaker 2: is beaten by Hulk obviously, and he imprisons the Red
Speaker 2: Hulk in a Gamma base and then later he I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna say, guys, we could see this happen,
Speaker 2: so put an earmuffs over your ears if you don't
Speaker 2: want to spoiler. But Red Hulk essentially ends up joining
Speaker 2: the Avengers. I think here it would be more likely
Speaker 2: that we would get a kind of Thunderbolts version, especially
Speaker 2: seeing as Thunderbolt Ross Thunnibolt's wink wink, you know, nudge, nudge,
Speaker 2: check that one out. But essentially after that, the Red
Speaker 2: Hulk is more of a positive figure, at least the
Speaker 2: version of the sorry I should say, the Thunderbolt Ross version.
Speaker 2: There are multiple versions of the Red Hulk, but throughout
Speaker 2: the years he is always getting imprisoned, turned into a
Speaker 2: you know, helper on a team does something wrong, goes back,
Speaker 2: and that is essentially what you need to know about
Speaker 2: dunabout Ross aka the Red Hulk, who will be starring
Speaker 2: in this movie, and I'm very interested to see the
Speaker 2: version because in the comics, something that's very different about
Speaker 2: the Red Hulk too is he's very clever. He is
Speaker 2: essentially a smart Hulk or doctor Hulk or scientist Holk
Speaker 2: or whichever version you want to call it. He is uninhibited,
Speaker 2: He's incredibly tactical. He can plan anything, he can strategize anything.
Speaker 2: He is essentially like the kind of Hulk who would
Speaker 2: hold a gun. If you're somebody who loves Shadow the
Speaker 2: Hedgehog and you're like, oh, my favorite thing about Shadow
Speaker 2: the Hedgehog is like he holds a AK forty seven
Speaker 2: in the video games. That's very much the same energy
Speaker 2: as as Red Hulk. And it's gonna be really interesting
Speaker 2: to see where this goes. Jason, My biggest question to you,
Speaker 2: as somebody who knows these comics, well, who knows these characters,
Speaker 2: will the Red Hulk be the true antagonist of Captain
Speaker 2: America A brave New World?
Speaker 1: Great question, I think not. I think that, at least
Speaker 1: from the what I'm picking up in the trailer, it
Speaker 1: seems to me that Fatteus might not even have been
Speaker 1: aware that he had undergone whatever process that this is,
Speaker 1: or the true nature of it, because he looks pretty
Speaker 1: surprised to be turning into the Hulk.
Speaker 2: So he's like, wait a minute, Wait a minute, wait
Speaker 2: a minute, this sucks, Like this is mad.
Speaker 1: I'm very interested. We will be very interested to see
Speaker 1: how all this unfolds when Captain America Brave New World
Speaker 1: debuts in just two weeks.
Speaker 2: On February fourteenth. Valentine right O, Red Hulk. He's read romance. Guys.
Speaker 1: Well, that's it for this episode of X ray Vision.
Speaker 1: We will be covering Captain America Brave New World. So
Speaker 1: stay tuned for our reactions. Thanks for listening, I Bye.
Speaker 1: X ray Vision is hosted by Jason Sepcion and Rosie
Speaker 1: Knight and is a production of iHeart Podcasts.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Joel Monique and Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Abu Safar.
Speaker 2: Our producers are Common Laurent Dean Jonathan, and Bay Wag.
Speaker 1: Our theme song is by Brian Vasquez with alternate theme
Speaker 1: songs by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 2: Special thanks to Soul Rubin, Chris Lord, Kenny Goodman, and
Speaker 2: Heidi our Discord moderator,