1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:28,320 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They call 6 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: me Ben. We are joined as always with our super producer, 7 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 1: Paul Mission controlled decond. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:45,519 Speaker 1: you to know. We're diving into some hidden history today. 10 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,560 Speaker 1: We're diving into as odd as the phrase may sound, 11 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: something new about history, because Faulkner was right. Of course, 12 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 1: the past isn't even the past yet. History is never over. 13 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,560 Speaker 1: It's an ongoing conversation. Most people living on the continents 14 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: of North and South America are comparatively recent arrivals, right, 15 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: while many people living in both South and North America 16 00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: have a long family history here. Uh. If you look 17 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: at the larger scheme of human migration across the planet, 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: human beings are kind of a new thing for these 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:33,759 Speaker 1: two continents. We know roughly, we know ballpark. The story 20 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: of humanity. Ancestral primates evolved on the African continent and 21 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:44,880 Speaker 1: from there our species spread around the globe. However, even today, 22 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: in on August seven, as we record this, our species 23 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: still gets bogged down in the details, especially when we 24 00:01:55,080 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: get to the timeline. So today's question, when did human 25 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:05,080 Speaker 1: beings actually reach the American continents? Here are the facts 26 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 1: Most experts within the fields the various fields of science, anthropology, 27 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 1: and the like. They agree that the story of the 28 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 1: contents of South and North America, at least as we 29 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: understand them now, they didn't begin with humans on them, 30 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 1: or humans were not there very early. These landmasses were 31 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 1: home to a lot of creatures, a lot of animals, 32 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: a lot of flora and fauna well before human beings arrived. 33 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: And of course, if you're taking the really long look 34 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 1: at the Earth, there are millions and millions of years 35 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: where humans weren't here, but there were other creatures. But 36 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 1: the big question for today is how did humans specifically 37 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:49,840 Speaker 1: get here onto North and South America. Well, the most 38 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:54,480 Speaker 1: common theory is this idea that involves Clovis culture and 39 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: the Bearing Land Bridge. By about fourteen thousand years ago, 40 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: the first human beings to reach the America's came by 41 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: crossing the Bearing Strait, which was this land bridge between 42 00:03:07,680 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: the far northeastern part of Siberia and the western the 43 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: farthest most western part of Alaska. UM. This theory, known 44 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 1: as the Bearing land bridge theory, is the one many 45 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: of us grew up listen hearing about, you know, the school. 46 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,760 Speaker 1: It actually makes a lot of sense. It's the closest 47 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: connection between Asia and North America and it only opens 48 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 1: when ice is locked up on land and then sea 49 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: level drops. Yeah, there is a logic here if we're 50 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,600 Speaker 1: talking about early human migration that we're talking about people 51 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:50,640 Speaker 1: basically walking right and probably following sources of food, maybe 52 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: other animals that they rely on for sustenance. So it 53 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: makes sense that they would be able to walk to 54 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: North America from literally the only walkable path, which is 55 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: this bearing land bridge across the street that you're describing. No, 56 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: and all of this is based on the idea that 57 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: early humans were unable to craft some kind of boat 58 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: or ship that would be able to traverse the Pacific 59 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: or Atlantic oceans in the way that we, you know, 60 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 1: began to be able to do as technology developed. Um 61 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: that they'll just remember that. That's why scientists always focus 62 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 1: on that land bridge because of the walkability as been said. Yeah, yeah, 63 00:04:36,400 --> 00:04:38,640 Speaker 1: that's a good point, Matt. And you know, let's get 64 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:41,960 Speaker 1: in front of the obvious question that many of us 65 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: are going to immediately ask, which is, why can I 66 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: not walk across that bridge today? Why do I have 67 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 1: to take a boat or a flight, or why do 68 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,159 Speaker 1: I have to go on a doomed mission to swim 69 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: the Pacific to reach Asia from the America's Well, it's 70 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:04,760 Speaker 1: because we are living in a different time. Back when, 71 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: according to this theory, people walked from Asia to North America, 72 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: they were doing so during something called the last Glacial 73 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: Maximum or l g M. If this comes up so 74 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: often in conversation that you don't have time to say 75 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: the whole thing, also known as the previous ice age, 76 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: the most recent ice age, the most recent ice age, Yeah, 77 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,599 Speaker 1: the one before the next one, which maybe we'll be 78 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: around to see. Who knows, Uh, it's I can't I 79 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 1: can't rule anything out at this point. So, back when 80 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: people were traversing the land in this way, much more 81 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 1: of Earth's water was existing in solid form in glaciers. 82 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: And now the difference between then and now is that 83 00:05:55,440 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: the sea levels have risen, so the bridge and the 84 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 1: land these people walked is underwater, meaning also that much 85 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: of the evidence of their migration is going to be 86 00:06:10,120 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: lost to time, as the conventional wisdom goes, by this time, 87 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: fourteen thousand, fifteen thousand years ago, humans had migrated across 88 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 1: the breadth of South and North America. You go up 89 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,480 Speaker 1: to modern day Alaska, you've got humans. Go down to Chile, 90 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: you got humans. The West coast is riddled with them. 91 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: You go to northeastern Canada, you've got people everywhere. You 92 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: go down to Florida, boom, same thing, people plus gators 93 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,160 Speaker 1: this time. So what we're telling you right now is 94 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: the official, most often told story. And I want to 95 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: pause here for you guys. Does this track with what 96 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 1: with Noel Matt? Does this track with what you learned 97 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: or were taught growing up about human migration? Basically? Yeah, yeah, 98 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:08,760 Speaker 1: this is precisely what what I recall from world history 99 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: classes both in high school and in college. Essentially what 100 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: we what we've just described here, the Clovis theory, the 101 00:07:17,120 --> 00:07:20,320 Speaker 1: closed hunters, and the evidence that we have found of 102 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: their lives back in those days. And it was a 103 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,560 Speaker 1: long time ago, but you know, when you look at 104 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: the span of what we know about humanity and the 105 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: evidence that we found it wasn't it wasn't that long ago. Yeah, yeah, 106 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 1: that's a good point. I think this story is going 107 00:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: to be familiar to many of us because you you 108 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: grow up in elementary school, middle school, high school, as 109 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: you said, Matt, you go to college and you'll still 110 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: hear some version of this. But the problem here is 111 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: pretty apparent. With every single nude discovery about the ancient 112 00:08:01,680 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: past and the story of humanity's migration from one place 113 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: to the next, well, we find the story gets less 114 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 1: and less clear cut. We don't have we we don't 115 00:08:15,320 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: have specific points of time and shifts of patterns. Right, 116 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,320 Speaker 1: we don't have the origin story of humanity. And this 117 00:08:25,400 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: is something that has baffled us on this show since 118 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: before Oh gosh, we like we were doing this show 119 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: when science discovered new mix tapes of early humanity. Right, 120 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: Dennis Sylvans, what was the other Homo floriensis? Yeah. Uh. 121 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: The point I'm making here is that we have been 122 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 1: taught a story. We have been sold a narrative in 123 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:05,760 Speaker 1: a very authority titive way, but everything we are learning 124 00:09:05,880 --> 00:09:09,959 Speaker 1: as a species indicates that story is not as accurate 125 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,640 Speaker 1: as we are led to believe it is when we 126 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 1: are children in school. So that's the question, when did 127 00:09:19,559 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: human beings actually arrive in the America's Before we jump in, Ben, 128 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: I just want to dovetail off what you're saying there. 129 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: We have been sold this essentially and told this all 130 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 1: of our lives. Everyone listening right now, I would say, 131 00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 1: just to make it a little more positive, because it's 132 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,960 Speaker 1: the best it's the best picture we've been able to 133 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 1: paint with the information we've had up to this point, right. 134 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: And the the problem, I think, the biggest problem that 135 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 1: we're going to be tackling today that we have to address, 136 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:58,320 Speaker 1: is that once that picture is painted, anytime new information, 137 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: these new discoveries that you're talking about, Ben, come through, 138 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:04,559 Speaker 1: it becomes more and more difficult to convince the painters 139 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 1: of that picture that there needs to be some revisions, 140 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: right because especially if it's a single point or discovery 141 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: in one place or a discuss, you know, one person's 142 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: one team's discovery rather than three or four in an area. 143 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 1: That's kind of the biggest problem. I see what you're saying, 144 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: and it's important because we're we're talking about discovering single 145 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 1: points of information, right, single instances and what are single 146 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: instances or examples against a larger body of thoughts, you 147 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: know what I mean? Oh yeah, And I mean those 148 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: high school textbooks aren't like infinitely long. They gotta figure 149 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: out how to tell a version of the story that 150 00:10:51,880 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: is as close to the likely scenario as possible and 151 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:59,200 Speaker 1: teaches you something about the history of you know, life. 152 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: But you're right, it is problematic. It can be, for sure, 153 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 1: because who you know, there's so much cantankerousness and science too. 154 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: If people making one discovery and then another crew making 155 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: something that conflicts with that narrative, and then there's this 156 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: kind of beef as to how it really happened. But 157 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of politics wrapped up in it and 158 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: all of that. So it's interesting for sure to see 159 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: the way these things kind of take on a life 160 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 1: of their own, especially like you said, once the Badgers 161 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: out of the bag was Ben would Sam. Yeah, that's 162 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: that's the issue here. We want to be very clear. 163 00:11:30,160 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 1: We're not accusing your history textbook publishers of purposely lying 164 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 1: to you, and we are certainly not accusing your favorite 165 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: history teachers from grade school of lying to you. Teachers 166 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: work incredibly hard Uh. They are some of the most 167 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: important people on the planet in my opinion. Uh. And 168 00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: they're not out to beguile and deceive you, hopefully they're 169 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: they're not supposed to be. However, they're working with the 170 00:12:04,440 --> 00:12:08,120 Speaker 1: information they have, right, And when we look at the 171 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,679 Speaker 1: realm of science and how science is communicated or disseminated 172 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:16,560 Speaker 1: to the population, we see that to your point, met 173 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:21,960 Speaker 1: sometimes people cling to a thing because it is the 174 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: established fact now that does that. That is indicative of 175 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,200 Speaker 1: a lack of skepticism or a lack of critical thinking. 176 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 1: It's also a very human understandable things psychologically speaking. Right. 177 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:39,760 Speaker 1: I don't want to, uh, I don't want to seem 178 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: as though we are being dismissive or derogatory towards the 179 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: many people who have spent their entire academic careers studying 180 00:12:49,800 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: various incredibly specific aspects of Clovis theory or the current 181 00:12:56,000 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: official story of human migration. But I will say in 182 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,800 Speaker 1: the past, I am sure there are people who spent 183 00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:09,839 Speaker 1: decades researching one thing and published about it, and then 184 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: they're there, and then new evidence was discovered that disproved 185 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: or challenged their life's work, and so they just kind 186 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: of you know, played it to the left. What am 187 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 1: I gonna do after forty five years in the game 188 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:27,319 Speaker 1: change my mind? Would be a better world if people 189 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 1: did that, but they often don't. Yeah, it's it's another 190 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: situation where once you have this established fact, you have 191 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,200 Speaker 1: to go far and beyond to prove that you're that 192 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,599 Speaker 1: that fact needs to be altered or negated, right you. 193 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,640 Speaker 1: That's why it becomes so difficult, um to make these 194 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: big changes to two existing stories. And they are stories. 195 00:13:53,080 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: Don't don't don't kid yourself. These are stories that we 196 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: are constructing based on the things that we have found. 197 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 1: And as we tackle this big question today, when did 198 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: humans arrive in the America's we're going to realize that 199 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: this thing is much more complicated than we expected. And 200 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 1: we'll tell you all about it right after a word 201 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 1: from our sponsor. Here's where it gets crazy. You see, 202 00:14:25,040 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: the timeline is shifting on us. The things we treated 203 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:35,119 Speaker 1: with such certitude turn out to be much less absolute 204 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 1: than we had imagined. And it again, it goes back 205 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: to the timeline. I think that's that's a big part 206 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: of what the three of us are talking about today. Yeah, 207 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: that's right. I mean, you may recall that we only 208 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: said human beings were spread across the continents by fourteen 209 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,760 Speaker 1: to fifteen thousand years ago UM. For authors like Craig Childs, 210 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 1: this shows that humanity by this point was most likely 211 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 1: already pretty well spread throughout one or more areas of 212 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 1: the continents before this. And there's several major theories that 213 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,680 Speaker 1: explain this. So let's start with a theory that we 214 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: sort of talked about at the top of the show, UH, 215 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: the Clovis first theory. This is the idea that the 216 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 1: first human migration happened after the last glacial maximum, which 217 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: is exactly what it sounds like UM, and this migration 218 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: later went into decline UM, only to be followed up 219 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: by you know, subsequent waves of humans from other parts 220 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,360 Speaker 1: of the world. So this connects all of these first 221 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: inhabitants of the America's with the Clovis culture UM, which 222 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: is something called a prehistorica paleo American culture that's named 223 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: for the distinctive stone tools that were found in Clovis, 224 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:57,960 Speaker 1: New Mexico in the twenties UM. This also rolls into 225 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,840 Speaker 1: that bearing land straight idea, which we've talked about in 226 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: previous episodes and or at the top of this one. 227 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: So this is your I guess. In the UK they 228 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:11,760 Speaker 1: would call it your bog standard explanation for how human 229 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: beings ended up on these continents. It's strange because this 230 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: concept existed for a very long time, despite the fact 231 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: that there were so many questions about it. If you 232 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,640 Speaker 1: look at the Clovis culture, the Clovis people, you'll find 233 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 1: an historical mystery. It's as if they appeared out of 234 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: nowhere and then suddenly disappeared. Radio carbon dating tells us 235 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: that what we regard as the people of the Clovis 236 00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: culture appeared in modern day America around nine thousand, two 237 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: hundred b C. And then five years later they vanished. 238 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: So the the important distinction there that that you're bringing 239 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 1: up now is the idea that these folks came over 240 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: after that glacial maximum, after that ice age, around the 241 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: decline of that ice age, they were able to traverse 242 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: the siege perilous of the Bearing Strait, and they were 243 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:25,399 Speaker 1: from there able to spread throughout the continent. But of 244 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:29,360 Speaker 1: course this theory did not exist in a vacuum. There 245 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:36,640 Speaker 1: are many other theories about early humans arriving on these continents, 246 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: and for centuries, people have argued back and forth about 247 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 1: this even before they could find solid evidence. What I 248 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,240 Speaker 1: mean by this is, even before we had scientific standards 249 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:57,840 Speaker 1: for collecting, cataloging, and contextualizing evidence and information, we had many, 250 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: many beliefs in civilization about humanity's origin story. On this continent, 251 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 1: you will find numerous religions that argue some some version 252 00:18:11,040 --> 00:18:16,280 Speaker 1: of an original person springing out of whole cloth or 253 00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: in some cases being created by a divine entity on 254 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 1: on these continents. And then you will also see further 255 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:31,360 Speaker 1: research that's admittedly more secular, uh, that kind of forensically 256 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 1: traces what we know about people on the planet on 257 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: other continents, right like we this is let's just say 258 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,359 Speaker 1: it coastal migration. Could people have gotten here by boats? 259 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,399 Speaker 1: Because if you can build a boat, that seems at 260 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 1: least a little bit it seems a little bit easier 261 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 1: to travel to this new land via watercraft than to 262 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:02,840 Speaker 1: walk through the frozen way lands of the bearing straight. Oh. Absolutely, 263 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 1: And note here that we're talking about coastal migration and 264 00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,159 Speaker 1: that sounds exactly like you imagine it to be. That is, 265 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 1: following along a coast at you know, some distance far 266 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: enough away from it, but essentially following the water along 267 00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 1: a coast on a boat of some kind. That doesn't 268 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 1: mean going straight out into the ocean right the way 269 00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:32,399 Speaker 1: the way you can with larger ships and more reliable ships. Now, uh, 270 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: it's very different. So there are a lot of sources, 271 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 1: there are a lot of people institutions, and there's some 272 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:48,119 Speaker 1: research that suggests that this may be a possibility coastal migration. 273 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,479 Speaker 1: So we know for for sure that in places like 274 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: Japan and parts of Korea South Korea, there have been 275 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 1: amazing archaeological discoveries that have found that humans during the 276 00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:05,359 Speaker 1: Ice Age were able to navigate coastal waters even though 277 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: it was so frigid and there's ice in many places, 278 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: they were able to do that, and they were essentially 279 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,919 Speaker 1: navigating the northern Pacific coasts of what is now modern 280 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: or what we would consider modern day Japan and Korea 281 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,159 Speaker 1: and come chaka with with boats. So it's really no 282 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:29,800 Speaker 1: stretch to imagine that humans at some point, perhaps we're 283 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: able to reach the America's by boat using coastal migration. 284 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:40,680 Speaker 1: And here's why it makes sense, because you could right 285 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 1: at the end of the Ice Age there where we're 286 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: imagining that people were physically walking across that bearing straight. 287 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:52,400 Speaker 1: Perhaps they were on boats just previous to the end 288 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: of that glacial maximum, or during the maximum, or even 289 00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:01,440 Speaker 1: after it, taking boats and following the coast, because you'd 290 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,240 Speaker 1: end up in Alaska, you'd get to British Columbia, then 291 00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,200 Speaker 1: down south to Washington, to Oregon, all along the Pacific 292 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: coast of what is now the United States. And it's 293 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:18,679 Speaker 1: pretty incredible that humanity, even during an ice age, was 294 00:21:18,760 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: able to both survive and prosper and even migraine. It's 295 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: strange to think about the world in in that way, 296 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 1: to imagine a contiguous coast. And I like the point 297 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:35,919 Speaker 1: you're making that about the watercraft involved, because you know, 298 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: these aren't cargo ships. These aren't mega yachts or or 299 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: schooners or frigoteens or pontoons or I'm just naming boat 300 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,560 Speaker 1: boat words. Now, does anybody else have a boat? Where? 301 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: What's up? One? You like? No frigate, frigate, yeah, frigging frigate. 302 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: These were none of those things. These were Yes, these 303 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: were not even tugboats. They were they were small coastal 304 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:08,800 Speaker 1: craft right like brown water Navy kind of stuff. They 305 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:12,440 Speaker 1: weren't meant to go into the open ocean. They were 306 00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: just kind of tracing along the line of the coast, 307 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: but if that coast is never ending, so they're just 308 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: sort of following a thing, and it's like a video 309 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: game wherein there, you know there is a larger world 310 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: out there. You have a rough idea of the parts 311 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,959 Speaker 1: of the map you've seen, but everything else is obscured, 312 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So so you may as 313 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: well imagine that you are just always on the same 314 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: coast of a thing you call the land. Who knows 315 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: if there's anything other than the land and then you 316 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:52,040 Speaker 1: know the water. What is compelling about that to me 317 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,160 Speaker 1: is what what spurred that movement? And you know, we 318 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: we discussed we discussed the migration of animals that were 319 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,920 Speaker 1: used for hunting right for food for the populations, as 320 00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: a possible reason to just continue down the coast if 321 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 1: fish populations, maybe because it's obvious that those boats were 322 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: would be used for fishing purposes, for catching food. Um, 323 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,119 Speaker 1: you know, I wonder if there was something This is 324 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 1: completely just off the top of my head, but I 325 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:29,760 Speaker 1: wonder what the thing was that spurred whichever group, however 326 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,959 Speaker 1: large or small it was, to continue down that coast 327 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: and just to keep going to see what's what's next. Oh, 328 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: I wish I knew. I mean necessity, I would imagine, 329 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:46,199 Speaker 1: but I wonder if it wasn't, I wouldn't wonder it 330 00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: was a spiritual belief or or um something that's deep inside. 331 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: I think all of us to just find out, well, 332 00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: there's something over there. Let's let's find out that's inspiring, 333 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,879 Speaker 1: you know, especially now as the next big step in 334 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:07,120 Speaker 1: space exploration may occur within our lifetimes. One one other 335 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: thing that may have happened just environmentally is people may 336 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 1: have just been following the recession of the ice. Depending 337 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:20,640 Speaker 1: on where you put them in the timeline, people may 338 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: have just been going further along the coast because they 339 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,879 Speaker 1: were able to see more of the coast. I'm not 340 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:33,400 Speaker 1: being dismissive. I'm just saying, like it the environment appears 341 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 1: to change so slowly that you might not be fully 342 00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: aware of how far you're migrating because you're you know, 343 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:48,479 Speaker 1: your grandparents, we're miles away or kilometers away for the 344 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: rest of the world, and then you two generations later 345 00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: still feel like you're by the edge of the ice. 346 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 1: But the ice itself has moved, So I think we're 347 00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: gonna take one more quick break and then we're gonna 348 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 1: get into some new discoveries when we return. So um, 349 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:18,399 Speaker 1: there have been some efforts recently, some research that's kinda 350 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:22,640 Speaker 1: put this traditional narrative on its head a bit um, 351 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,760 Speaker 1: And that includes some stuff very very recently published just 352 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,080 Speaker 1: in the last month. In a paper known called the 353 00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,000 Speaker 1: Timing and Effect of the Earliest Human Arrivals in North America, 354 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,200 Speaker 1: uh Lorena Bassara Valdiva and Thomas I am Um look 355 00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: into a pretty awesome and bizarre discovery. What they found 356 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,639 Speaker 1: was a piece of limestone from this very specific cave, 357 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: the Chiquahite Cave in north central Mexico, that could potentially 358 00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:59,280 Speaker 1: prove that humans actually first arrived on the continent much 359 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,760 Speaker 1: much early here than that narrative would have us believe, 360 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 1: the one we know from school. Yes, uh, I've waited 361 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: for this, Okay. So, like many of our fellow listeners, 362 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: we grew up. I don't want to speak for everybody, 363 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: let me let me clarify. I grew up convinced that 364 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:22,600 Speaker 1: there was hidden history everywhere, you know, and I was 365 00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,679 Speaker 1: I was certain, probably just because I was a jerk, 366 00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: that human beings had all these ancient civilizations and that 367 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: they had a much longer time on these two continents specifically, 368 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:42,800 Speaker 1: and without getting into the weeds on all the crazy 369 00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: stuff that's out there, this is different because this is proof. 370 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:55,959 Speaker 1: This is quantitative proof that the first people, if people 371 00:26:56,000 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: built these tools you're mentioning, all arrived on North and 372 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: South America, like thirty three thousand years ago. That's nuts 373 00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,160 Speaker 1: just to put, just to put in perspective how much 374 00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: time that is. I hope no one gets mad at 375 00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:21,000 Speaker 1: me for bringing this up. Was forty years ago, right, So, like, 376 00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 1: I think that's gonna hit people when you think about 377 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:29,199 Speaker 1: thirty three thousand years. Yeah, I mean, let's just pretend 378 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: that humans live a hundred years, right, that's three hundred 379 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:41,240 Speaker 1: and thirty human like human cycles iterations. Yeah. Yeah, it's 380 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: a it's a very it's very long story. And you know, 381 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:49,360 Speaker 1: for quite a while, there would be various people propagating 382 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: what was essentially some narrative without proof. They would say, 383 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 1: you know, I have had a spiritual awakening and I 384 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: realized that the true story of insert usually specific brand 385 00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: of people here is that they came to modern day 386 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 1: South or Central America or North America, uh like after 387 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,919 Speaker 1: the Fall of Atlantis or the sinking of Lemuria or something. 388 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,199 Speaker 1: And the problem is they didn't have proof. This is 389 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: different because this is not tinfoil hat territory. Archaeologists in 390 00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: this cave discovered specifically three deliberately shaped pieces of limestone. 391 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: They discovered a pointing stone and two cutting flakes. Right now, 392 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:49,720 Speaker 1: pending new discoveries, these are the oldest human made tools 393 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: discovered on these continents. They absolutely do not fit that 394 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: timeline we were all taught in school. They also they're 395 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: also just one of several discoveries in this cave. Because 396 00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:06,960 Speaker 1: this cave is like a an episode of Hoarders where 397 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: the hoarder is just collecting sediment. The archaeologists spent a 398 00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 1: lot of arduous time digging carefully through various layers of sediment. 399 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,200 Speaker 1: It's kind of like a time capsule time machine. And 400 00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: these tools they found are in like the very back 401 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,240 Speaker 1: of the cave, in the deepest layer of the random 402 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:33,760 Speaker 1: rocks and pebbles and bits of sediment that have accumulated 403 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,640 Speaker 1: there over time. This is important because when we know 404 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: the layer in which they were found, we have an 405 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: enormous head start on figuring out when they were left 406 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: in that layer, and these things were here way before 407 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 1: the last glacial maximum, way before the last ice age 408 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 1: that occurred, like what between twenty six thousand and nineteen 409 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,680 Speaker 1: thousand years ago, which means before that, someone was in 410 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: this cave and they had made tools and they they 411 00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: forgot them. So if you think about it, because somebody 412 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:15,479 Speaker 1: did the equivalent of forgetting their keys at home, we 413 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:19,480 Speaker 1: are upending the story of human history thousands of years later. 414 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: We truly are. And we're gonna tell you more about 415 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:25,800 Speaker 1: how this discovery was occurred. But I want to jump 416 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: to another recent article from Nature that was published in 417 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:35,280 Speaker 1: July of this year, and it is titled evidence of 418 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: human occupation in Mexico around the Last Glacial Maximum, and 419 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm going to read a quick quote from the abstract 420 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: of it just to give you an understanding what's happening here. 421 00:30:46,480 --> 00:30:50,040 Speaker 1: It's pretty incredible because not only did they find those 422 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: limestone artifacts that we're talking about, there are those tools. 423 00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: There was a lot more and there is a lot 424 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 1: more still being found right now. So from this article, 425 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:04,920 Speaker 1: it states the site yielded about one thousand, nine hundred 426 00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: stone artifacts within a three meter deep stratus stratified sequence, 427 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: revealing a previously unknownlithic industry that underwent only minor changes 428 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,880 Speaker 1: over millennia. More than fifty radio carbon and luminescence dates 429 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: provide chronological control and genetic, paleo, environmental, and chemical data 430 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 1: that document the changing environments in which the occupants lived. Now, 431 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: that is when you're talking about finding proof, right that 432 00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 1: you could be able to show to another scientist, to 433 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,240 Speaker 1: fellow sciences and say, hey, look at all of this 434 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:45,680 Speaker 1: data we've collected from these things. You're you're talking about 435 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 1: several different ways in which they are testing this stuff, 436 00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: with luminescence testing, with radio carbon testing. Um. I mean, 437 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:58,400 Speaker 1: it's pretty incredible stuff here, and it really does show 438 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: that humans were in that cave, as Ben said, way 439 00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 1: before that ice age. And these researchers and scientists who 440 00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: are there in that cave are continuing and they're gonna 441 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 1: keep digging and they're gonna keep looking and who knows 442 00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: what else we're going to discover. But the reason why 443 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: it took so long to find this stuff, and it 444 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: will take a long time to probably find more, is 445 00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,000 Speaker 1: because of how difficult it is to reach this location. 446 00:32:21,880 --> 00:32:25,480 Speaker 1: This is this is kind of a sunk cost for 447 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,960 Speaker 1: those poor archaeologists. Uh. The lead author of one of 448 00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: those studies is very very clear about how much of 449 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,720 Speaker 1: a pain in the key stre it is to get 450 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 1: to this cave at all. He said that once they 451 00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: got there, Cypriot Arduently by the way, lead author of 452 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: that that's so you're mentioning, Mattuh, he said that once 453 00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:48,920 Speaker 1: they got there, they just had to live there. It 454 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,680 Speaker 1: takes the whole day to get there from the nearest town, 455 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: and part of that day is a continuous five hour climb. 456 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:58,240 Speaker 1: It called it a logistical nightmare. So it's one of 457 00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,640 Speaker 1: those things where have you ever been in a very 458 00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,240 Speaker 1: unusual place or a place that was very difficult to 459 00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: get to, and you just thought, you know, while i'm here, 460 00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm gonna do everything I can. That's what they're doing 461 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: in this cave. They're saying, Okay, while we're here, let's 462 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: get all of the information that that we can find. 463 00:33:20,520 --> 00:33:23,160 Speaker 1: This is a logistical nightmare. But the nightmare has paid 464 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:27,360 Speaker 1: off because it appears that this cave was not used 465 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:34,320 Speaker 1: once is tremendously important distinction. This cave was not something 466 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 1: that Uh, an early human being accidentally happened to spend 467 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,040 Speaker 1: the night in right and then left their tools and 468 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: went on their merry way. This cave was used over 469 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,520 Speaker 1: thousands of years by various people. It was kind It 470 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,520 Speaker 1: was like a trocoldtic version of a hotel. As use 471 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:02,760 Speaker 1: trocolate dietic again last time. But what we mean here 472 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,720 Speaker 1: is was a long It was a long standing known 473 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: temporary refuge for some sort of nomadic people, and they 474 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: must have communicated knowledge of this cave two later generations, 475 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:22,799 Speaker 1: possibly via oral history. Maybe enough time passed that that 476 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,480 Speaker 1: oral history became legend. You can imagine that it might 477 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: have been some kind of religious religious pilgrimage of some 478 00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:34,400 Speaker 1: sort or something. I mean again, that's me completely making 479 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,839 Speaker 1: it up, but you can imagine that something like that 480 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,080 Speaker 1: could be the scenario. Because of what they've been finding. 481 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: There could be a very special cave for one reason 482 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,239 Speaker 1: or another that we just don't know yet. Yeah, we 483 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,319 Speaker 1: don't know. That's the thing that the history is so 484 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,720 Speaker 1: thin here because of all the time that has passed. 485 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,719 Speaker 1: What we do know is that the conventional story many 486 00:34:55,760 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 1: people were taught needs some revision. It needs to be updated. 487 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: It's astonishing because most of North America was covered with 488 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: ice during that ice age. So if people were leaving 489 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:14,160 Speaker 1: tools in this cave at this time, and if they 490 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: were migrating coastally right or however they got here, it 491 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,280 Speaker 1: means that they got here before that ice age began, 492 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:28,040 Speaker 1: or that means it's possible they did. So this means 493 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,239 Speaker 1: that despite everything, a lot of people were taught in 494 00:35:31,280 --> 00:35:35,520 Speaker 1: grade school. It appears that at least very small numbers 495 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,799 Speaker 1: of human beings lived in North America and possibly other 496 00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:43,400 Speaker 1: parts of these two continents, Central and South America during 497 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: and immediately after the last ice Age, And what we 498 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: thought was the first migration is actually a second or 499 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: subsequent wave. The human population grew larger after this pre 500 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: read of abrupt kind of global warming that started fourteen 501 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 1: to fifteen thousand years ago. So don't call it a 502 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:12,480 Speaker 1: come back. They've always been here, right, It's strange. Oh yeah, 503 00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: And I think that study also suggested that some people 504 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 1: had entered the America as before twenty nine thousand years ago, 505 00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: and that's possibly along the Pacific coast. Um And one 506 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,960 Speaker 1: final note, um anthropologist Matthew Delorius of California State UH 507 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: in San Bernardino raises a really important question to kind 508 00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,759 Speaker 1: of leave you with, Um, how could ancient people who 509 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:35,839 Speaker 1: had been in the America's for more than twenty five 510 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:41,560 Speaker 1: thousand years have remained quote archaeologically invisible for over ten 511 00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,240 Speaker 1: thousand years? Um? And and he had he has an answer, 512 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:50,200 Speaker 1: he he does. But but his big question there is 513 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,080 Speaker 1: raised from the fact that in other places like Australia, 514 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 1: in Japan, archaeologists have had no difficulty in finding evidence 515 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,319 Speaker 1: of human occupation and from that same time period they've 516 00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: been able to dig down and find Oh wow, yeah, 517 00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: this is this is from twenty thousand years ago. Um, 518 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: why haven't American archaeologists found that, or you know, South 519 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,240 Speaker 1: American North American archaeology, why haven't we found the same things? 520 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: And his statement to that idea is, quote, archaeologists in 521 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,279 Speaker 1: the America's have either been doing things very wrong for 522 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: the last ninety years, or we have here an anomaly 523 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: that must be accounted for. It makes a lot of 524 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,960 Speaker 1: sense to me. We it's it's an anomaly either way. 525 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: I would say, it feels like an anomaly that must 526 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: be accounted for. Right. And that's not the only big 527 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,279 Speaker 1: discovery though there The this one I'm gonna mention here 528 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 1: isn't as recent. It goes back to the turn of 529 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: the millennium, back in two thousand and even before that. 530 00:37:55,760 --> 00:37:59,480 Speaker 1: There's a place in Brazil. It's a national park called 531 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 1: Sarah the Capivara. It's uh, there's there are several sites there. 532 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:07,040 Speaker 1: I think there are four hundred or something archaeological dig 533 00:38:07,080 --> 00:38:10,600 Speaker 1: sites in this national park and in a few of 534 00:38:10,680 --> 00:38:15,400 Speaker 1: them there have been paintings, um these amazing cave paintings 535 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:20,680 Speaker 1: as well as other evidence of human life in that area. 536 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,960 Speaker 1: That appears to go back twenty two thousand years and 537 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: perhaps even further in Brazil. So again, that's humanity in 538 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:34,800 Speaker 1: South America in Brazil a long time before the history 539 00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:37,600 Speaker 1: books would would say that we are. But that is 540 00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:42,160 Speaker 1: a whole different story for another day. That also, listeners 541 00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:45,040 Speaker 1: will note that's that's pretty far from the Pacific coast. 542 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:51,439 Speaker 1: It is really is so both sides. It appears of 543 00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: the continents where we're being visited by humans, at least visited, 544 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: if not lived upon. So what do you think, folks, 545 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:04,759 Speaker 1: when did the first human beings actually reach the American continents? 546 00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:06,759 Speaker 1: Let us know we'd love to hear your thoughts. 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