1 00:00:05,519 --> 00:00:08,200 Speaker 1: Hi, this is Annie, and you're listening to stuff I've 2 00:00:08,200 --> 00:00:23,079 Speaker 1: never told you so. I was listening to MPR the 3 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: other day yep, during the Fall fund drive. And they 4 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,760 Speaker 1: reported on an investigation they had just completed with Northwestern 5 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,520 Speaker 1: University's Meddill School of Journalism around female prisons and in particular, 6 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:40,480 Speaker 1: discipline and female prisons. They visited five prisons and collected 7 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: data from fifteen states, and their report found female prisoners 8 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,920 Speaker 1: are disciplined at a higher rate than male prisoners, two 9 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: to three times higher, and and for more minor things. 10 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: In California, for instance, female prisoners are twice as likely 11 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: to be written up for or disrespect than men. In Vermont, 12 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: women are three times it's likely to be disciplined for 13 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: making derogatory comments. In Rhode Island and Iowa, women are 14 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 1: three times more likely to get in trouble for disobedience 15 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 1: and disruptive behavior. And this matters for a couple of reasons. One, 16 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: women are more likely to end up in solitary confinement 17 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: as a result of these minor infractions as compared to men. 18 00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: Inmates could lose good conduct credits, which could lead to 19 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: them spending more time in prison. Female prisoners could lose 20 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: privileges like being able to buy food or hygiene products 21 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: at the commissary, or visitation or phone privileges. Over half 22 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: of the female prison population are mothers to children under eighteen, 23 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:44,760 Speaker 1: so this means they're completely cut off from their kids. 24 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: At one facility, suicide rates for the female prisoners climbed 25 00:01:48,640 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: from one to ten a month, and professionals looking into 26 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: it think it has to do with a lot of 27 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 1: things that this report found that we're talking about. The 28 00:01:57,880 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: reporters make the point that jails were designed for controlling men, 29 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: and particularly aggressive men, and since the population of female 30 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,839 Speaker 1: prisoners has risen over seven hundred and fifty since night, 31 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,440 Speaker 1: this problem is only worsened. Women are more likely to 32 00:02:14,480 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: be in prison for less violent crimes as compared to men, 33 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: like drug our property crimes. They're more likely to struggle 34 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: with substance abuse our mental illnesses than male prisoners. On 35 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,160 Speaker 1: top of that, up to female prisoners have been physically 36 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: and or sexually abused. That's going to influence how they 37 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: react and behave in these situations. Female prisoners are often 38 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 1: more communicative to and the prison system was not set 39 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: up for that, and prison guards were not trained for that. 40 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,600 Speaker 1: This goes back a long way to In eighteen forty five, 41 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: state auditors in Illinois wrote, one female prisoner is of 42 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:57,920 Speaker 1: more trouble than twenty mailes. Some potential solutions the report 43 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: offered call for training staff specificly to work with female prisoners, 44 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:05,480 Speaker 1: something called gender responsive training. But it takes a while, 45 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: and it's expensive, and some staff of the largely male 46 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: workforce derogatorily call it hug a thug. Still, it's good 47 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 1: that we're having these conversations, and today we wanted to 48 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 1: rerun a classic episode about a show you might have 49 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,239 Speaker 1: heard of on Netflix that helped bring some of these 50 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 1: issues women face in prison to light. Orange Is the 51 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: New Black. I will say that every time I've watched 52 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: Orange Is a New Black, when I wanted to bene it, 53 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 1: I've been in the middle of some weird life situation 54 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 1: where I I don't know, I'm like at a studio 55 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: alone at night, trying to complete a project, and just 56 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: watching Range a New Black on a very small screen, 57 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: so as a special weird place in my heart. But 58 00:03:50,160 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: this episode is a is a good look about the 59 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: US prison system, what it gets right and when it 60 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 1: gets wrong, when it pertains to women. How accurate is 61 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: the show? So we hope you enjoy. Welcome to stuff 62 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:14,880 Speaker 1: Mom never told you from how Stuff works not color. Hello, 63 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Caroline and I'm Kristen, 64 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,920 Speaker 1: and you guys might have taken note of the fact 65 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 1: that Kristen and I have been, you know, encouraging you 66 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: to go watch Orange Is the New Black on Netflix. 67 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 1: It is a really incredible, compelling show full of really 68 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: really colorful characters who have pretty incredible and again compelling backstories. 69 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:42,520 Speaker 1: And when we put out the call to get episodes suggestions, 70 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 1: one of the top requested episodes was to take a 71 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 1: real look at real women in prison. Yeah, so here 72 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: you go, contest winner, Orange is the New Black versus 73 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 1: real life women's risens. And we're gonna have to give 74 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 1: just summaries of all of these different facets because there 75 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: are so many different angles to what life is really 76 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: like in women's prisons and who are those women, those 77 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: very real women who are incarcerated. Um, but we're going 78 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:24,120 Speaker 1: to do the best we can to give you a 79 00:05:24,240 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: comprehensive snapshot of what life is like in there, and 80 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: just for a snapshot as well of Orange as the 81 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: New Black. It was created by Genji Cohen, who also 82 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 1: created the show Weeds, which I'm sure is a favorite 83 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 1: among some listeners as well. And it's based on a 84 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: memoir by the same name by a woman named Piper Kerman, 85 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: who is Piper Chapman in the show. She's the main character. Yeah, 86 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: and now Piper Kerman serves as a communications consultant for 87 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: a firm in New York, and she also volunteers for 88 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,560 Speaker 1: the Women's Prison Association and has since poined their board. Yeah, 89 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: it's pretty cool how she has parlayed her experience the 90 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: year that she spent in prison, not just to write 91 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: a best selling memoir and make some cash off of 92 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,880 Speaker 1: turning it into a show, but to really use her platform, 93 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 1: her privilege platform, in a lot of ways to highlight 94 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: the just horrific conditions that women are living in in 95 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: prison and also the injustice, the rampant injustice that is 96 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 1: our criminal justice system that is keeping not only women 97 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: in prison, but also getting them, keeping them in this 98 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,600 Speaker 1: cycle of incarceration. So let's first talk about the show. 99 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: Let's talk about some things. Oh, and I guess we 100 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 1: should say spoiler alerts ahead. If you have not seen 101 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,920 Speaker 1: Orange as the New Black. You might want to watch 102 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:01,720 Speaker 1: it before you listen to this podcast because we're gonna 103 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: share some things, not too many crazy spoilers, but but 104 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: still we're gonna fill you in on the show. Yeah. Um, well, 105 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: so let's start by talking about what kind of things 106 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,000 Speaker 1: the show got right, because I know, you know, as 107 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: I'm watching it, I'm like, God, some of these things 108 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 1: seem terrible. Some of them seem not so bad. For instance, 109 00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:25,360 Speaker 1: a lot of the women have great camaraderie. Like, how 110 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: accurate is this stuff? And so this is coming from 111 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: um a piece that Jeff Smith wrote. He's a former 112 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:35,560 Speaker 1: Missouri state senator who resigned his seat after pleading guilty 113 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 1: to two counts of obstruction of justice, and he spent 114 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: a year in federal prison. And we're also getting some 115 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of this information from a story that appeared on the 116 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: cut from New York Magazine. They sat down with five 117 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: formally incarcerated women and talked about Orange is the New 118 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,080 Speaker 1: Black and how accurate these portrayals of women and prisoners are. Yeah, 119 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: and so some of the general things that it gets 120 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: right is that small thing ings have huge consequences. For instance, 121 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:05,960 Speaker 1: Smith talks about how one of his main strategies to 122 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: stay safe, as he writes, because he weighs only a 123 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: hundred and seventeen pounds, he's a pretty small guy, was 124 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: to quietly give stolen tomatoes and onions to certain powerful inmates, 125 00:08:17,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: which effectively helped me build critical alliances. Because what what 126 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: might seem like minor infractions or social awkwardness kinds of 127 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: things really do have outsized consequences. For instance, in the show, 128 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 1: when you have read essentially starving Piper, he he wasn't 129 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:43,080 Speaker 1: at all surprised by that. He was like, something like 130 00:08:43,120 --> 00:08:46,920 Speaker 1: that could absolutely happen. And as a side note with 131 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 1: the whole starvation thing, courts have upheld prisons serving neutral 132 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 1: OAF as punishment and neutral OAF for people who are 133 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: not acquainted with it. It's the stuff that Piper was 134 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 1: served when she went into the special housing unit. The shoe, 135 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: which is essentially solitary confinement and neutral loaf is what 136 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: it sounds like. It's a loaf of stuff that doesn't 137 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 1: taste very good but contains all of the nutrients necessary 138 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:22,439 Speaker 1: to keep you alive. So it's not quite starving someone 139 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 1: to death. Not yeah, not quite. Um. Another thing that 140 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 1: is accurate is just the fact of having to to 141 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: kind of make do with what you have, creating something 142 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: out of very little. For instance, the cool a lip 143 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: gloss in the show, I think they made signs at 144 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: one point and they didn't have paint, so I think 145 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 1: they used kool aid for that too. But also using 146 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: in the show, they've used Maxi pads as shoes or 147 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: as masks for when everybody got sick. Yeah. And then 148 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 1: one big question that a lot of people had was 149 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 1: what about the sexual tension, because the way that I 150 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,280 Speaker 1: ascribed Orange is the New Black in my notes is 151 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 1: that it kind of makes it look like women's prison 152 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 1: is a hyper sexual lesbian summer camp with really means 153 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: psychopathic counselors um. And the ex prisoners said, yeah, you know, 154 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: of course people have urges. But the women also pointed 155 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: out that the rampant sexy times that you see on 156 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: Orange Is the New Black are overblown a bit. It's 157 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: not as common for women to be constantly having sex 158 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: with other women in prison or jail, right, And they 159 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: did get it right. Also that the prison administrators really 160 00:10:40,920 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 1: do not care about the women as people, and that 161 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: discipline can be pretty arbitrary. Also that visitation can be 162 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: depressing when when relatives come to visit you in prison. Yeah. 163 00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: On the one hand, you have Pipers family and friends 164 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,599 Speaker 1: coming and it's and it's usually pretty awful because they 165 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: don't want to It's like they're in denial that she's 166 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: actually in prison, or they're being too gawky about it. 167 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: It's like one or the other. And then you have 168 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:15,880 Speaker 1: instances in the show like when um, Diana's mom is 169 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: sitting there and she's so angry and just trying to 170 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: get information from her boyfriend as to whether or not 171 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: he's been sleeping around and just all of the you know, 172 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: those those two worlds colliding. Um, so understandably visitation, when 173 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,280 Speaker 1: the outside meets the inside, it can certainly breed some discontent. Yeah, 174 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: and then um, the whole issue. There was one episode 175 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: of Orange is the New Black where um, one woman 176 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:48,320 Speaker 1: Big Boo, is upset that her kind of ex girlfriend 177 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: is is leaving. And so there's this whole issue of 178 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:56,720 Speaker 1: antagonizing people before they are set to be released in 179 00:11:56,840 --> 00:12:00,720 Speaker 1: order to try to get them stuck in jail for longer. Yeah, 180 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 1: And in that case, that's someone wanting to keep someone 181 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: that they love from leaving. But a lot of times. 182 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: That's what happens with enemies. You've got to watch out 183 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: if you're about to leave, and if you've made an enemy, uh, 184 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: there's a good chance that someone might try to sabotage 185 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: your release. And speaking of release, and this is something 186 00:12:18,800 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: we'll talk about in more detail, recidivism happens a lot 187 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 1: when spoiler, this is a big spoiler when we see 188 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 1: Tasty come back after she's released and she talks about 189 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,400 Speaker 1: how it was basically impossible for her to stay out 190 00:12:36,440 --> 00:12:40,319 Speaker 1: of prison. She couldn't do it because she had absolutely 191 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,559 Speaker 1: no resources. And that is very true to life, because 192 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: ex prisoners are given little to no resources to get 193 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: back on their feet, especially if they're felons. Well, so, 194 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 1: what does the show get wrong? What do they gloss 195 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:58,440 Speaker 1: over or not portray accurately. One of those things is 196 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: the consequences for or talking too much, snitching and crossing 197 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: racial lines are actually much harsher than portrayed in the show. Yeah, 198 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: for instance, when everybody listens to Piper's boyfriend on the 199 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: This American Life type show talking about what she tells 200 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: him about her experience in prison and all of the 201 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 1: different people who she's essentially snitching on and everyone's hearing this. 202 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: The retribution for that probably would have been much harsher 203 00:13:31,320 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: in a real women's prison. And even though with race, 204 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: even though it's very segregated in the show, there's still 205 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: a lot more mixing and crossing of those racial lines 206 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: than there probably would be. Yeah, and the whole nudity issue, 207 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the show opens with shower scenes. Um, 208 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:54,679 Speaker 1: the in actuality, there's a lot less nudity in the 209 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: showers because you have to just kind of watch your 210 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: back you might get assaulted. Yeah, and that's more true 211 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: probably in male prisons. That was something that Jeff Smith 212 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: pointed out in terms of listen, you're really gonna want 213 00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 1: to be naked for as short of a time as possible. Um. So, essentially, 214 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: what the show gets wrong is that the worse is 215 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 1: so much worse. The bad stuff is so bad, and so, 216 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: you know, I think that if they were to portray 217 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:28,240 Speaker 1: it as it actually is, the show would almost be unwatchable. 218 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,040 Speaker 1: But on the bright side, one thing that I found 219 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:35,520 Speaker 1: that is true in prison becoming more true in prison 220 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: is that yoga is practiced in a growing number of prisons. Yeah, 221 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,360 Speaker 1: because it is a great way to be active and 222 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: also to relax, and it's cheap. A lot of times 223 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: the people who come into the prisons to teach the 224 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,760 Speaker 1: yoga classes are volunteers. Yeah, The New York Times did 225 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: a whole piece on this and talked about how even 226 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: in men's prisons, some of the the guys were really 227 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:04,320 Speaker 1: hesitant to go and do something they might have seen 228 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: as not being really tough, but that anecdotally a lot 229 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: of them report really positive benefits from a regular yoga practice. 230 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: So there are yoga jaans in prison. But then on 231 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: a download again, because really from here on it kind 232 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: of all the information that we're going to offer does 233 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: get a bit dismal. Um, we should talk about trans 234 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: people in prison, because we have Sophia Bursett, who has 235 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: played so wonderfully by Laverne Cox, who portrays male to 236 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: female transgender person who had undergone gender reassignment surgery and 237 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: later is denied hormone treatment and is having to deal 238 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 1: with the physical and emotional repercussions from that. And the 239 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:05,080 Speaker 1: situation for trans people who are incarcerated is really dismal, right, 240 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: And I think it's reflected pretty well in that issue 241 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:12,360 Speaker 1: that you just mentioned of having her hormone therapy denied. 242 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: In reality, seventeen of trans people in prison are denied 243 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: hormone treatment and often end up in prison according to 244 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: their birth sex, which can lead to a huge amount 245 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: of severe harassment. Yeah, especially from male to female pre 246 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 1: gender reassignment surgery prisoners who might be put in a 247 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: men's prison, that risk of harassment definitely goes up. Um 248 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: and just the risk for going to jail, for being arrested, 249 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: going to jail, being imprisoned is higher for trans people 250 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: compared to the rest of the population. A report from 251 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,880 Speaker 1: the National Center for Transgender Equality found that sixteen percent 252 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: of trans people surveyed had spent at least some jail 253 00:16:55,960 --> 00:17:01,000 Speaker 1: time or prison time because of things lie unemployment, because 254 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 1: the unemployment rate is twice that of the general population, 255 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: which is often related to harassment, which is related to 256 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:13,440 Speaker 1: being transgender, and so because of that high rate of unemployment, 257 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,960 Speaker 1: they might turn to things like sex work, drug trades, 258 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 1: and also be homeless. Right and sixteen Also, another sixteen 259 00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: six of the respondents who had been in prison or 260 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:29,600 Speaker 1: jail reported being physically assaulted. Fifteen percent of responds who 261 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: had been in jail reported they had been sexually assaulted. 262 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: So in a way, the orange is the new black 263 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: character Sophia has. I mean, aside from the hormone treatment issue, 264 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,879 Speaker 1: that portrays the situation for a trans prisoner and almost 265 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: the best possible scenario, right. I mean, she is still like, 266 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,000 Speaker 1: you know, verbally attacked, and she still deals with a 267 00:17:51,080 --> 00:17:53,600 Speaker 1: whole lot of people, you know, just saying terrible things 268 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,879 Speaker 1: to her. But she is not in a men's prison, 269 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: right And the and side note, her hair salon probably 270 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't exist in a real woman's love her hair and 271 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: the show, Like I swear, I just watched an episode 272 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,119 Speaker 1: last night and she's wearing this like headband and her 273 00:18:12,119 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: hair is all braided, and I just I was like, God, 274 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,240 Speaker 1: I wish I could do that to my hair, but 275 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 1: it's not thick enough anyway, total tangent. But another nightmare 276 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,560 Speaker 1: situation that we've already mentioned is the special housing unit 277 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: the Shoe, the solitary confinement where Piper goes. When she 278 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 1: was dancing a little provocatively and Sam Healy got a 279 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: little upset with her. This is where inmates are separated 280 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: from the rest of the population and they have very 281 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 1: limited activity. Yeah, and about five point seven percent of 282 00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:45,399 Speaker 1: federal prisoners. Around ten thousand people are in the shoe 283 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: at any given moment, and with the solitary conditions, some 284 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,399 Speaker 1: people have argued that the shoe constitutes a specific form 285 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: of torture. Yeah, I mean, I I can't imagine. I mean, 286 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: and in the show, Piper is only in there for 287 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:04,080 Speaker 1: about forty eight hours, but I mean, she was already 288 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, her character is already losing it. I can't, 289 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,239 Speaker 1: I can't imagine. Well, and then that relates back to 290 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: the whole issue of arbitrary discipline, where you don't know 291 00:19:14,280 --> 00:19:17,320 Speaker 1: exactly what you have to do to stay out of 292 00:19:17,359 --> 00:19:21,680 Speaker 1: the shoe. If you simply cross someone in a way 293 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: that they don't like, then you might be thrown in there. 294 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: And I mean, and who's to say how long? You know, 295 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 1: how long that you'll be in there? Right? Um, So 296 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: let's take a deeper look away from Orange is a 297 00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 1: New Black, the show and into women's prisons. And I 298 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 1: cannot recommend the article that we found over at Bitch 299 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,520 Speaker 1: Magazine that did just this. It didn't end depth look 300 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,800 Speaker 1: at how Orange is a New Black compares to real life. 301 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,160 Speaker 1: And uh, this is a major source for a lot 302 00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: of these statistics that we're gonna be tossing out so 303 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,359 Speaker 1: for an idea of just how bad the situation is 304 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,879 Speaker 1: in terms of imprisonment in the United States, the US 305 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: is home to five percent of the world's population and 306 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: twenty five percent of the world's prison inmates, and women 307 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: are this country's fastest growing prison population. And according to 308 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 1: the Sentencing Project, the number of women incarcerated in the 309 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: US increased by six hundred and forty six percent between 310 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 1: nineteen eight that's from fifteen thousand, one eighteen to one 311 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 1: hundred and twelve thousand seven. Yeah, and just to get 312 00:20:37,320 --> 00:20:42,800 Speaker 1: even more specific, Oklahoma incarceraates more women per capita than 313 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: any other state um. And if we break it down racially, 314 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,919 Speaker 1: as of Black women have been incarcerated at nearly three 315 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: times the rate of white women, and Hispanic women were 316 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 1: incarcerated at one point six times the rate of white women. 317 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:04,879 Speaker 1: And even though those are huge disparities, it's actually narrowed 318 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,600 Speaker 1: as black women were incarcerated at six times the rate 319 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,959 Speaker 1: as white women in two thousand UM And and just 320 00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: for comparison, though black men are imprisoned at about twenty 321 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,399 Speaker 1: two times the rate that black women are white men, 322 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 1: are incarcerated at ten times the rate of white women 323 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 1: and Latino men at sixteen times the rate. So even 324 00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 1: though the imprisonment of women has skyrocketed in the last 325 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: twenty years, that's only a small portion of the overall 326 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,720 Speaker 1: prison population, which is overwhelmingly male and overwhelmingly black and Latino. 327 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,720 Speaker 1: And as we'll get into a little bit deeper in 328 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: just a second, I mean, one of the consequences of, 329 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: you know, having so many people in prison at any 330 00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 1: given time is just the economic hardships that people face, 331 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,960 Speaker 1: because once you've been to prison, it's so hard to 332 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: claw your way back up. And uh, Dorothy Roberts, who's 333 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 1: a professor at the University of Pennsylvania, rights in the 334 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 1: u c l A Law review that mass imprisonment of 335 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,440 Speaker 1: blacks and Latinos allows the state to exert direct control 336 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 1: over poorly educated, unskilled, and jobless people who have no 337 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: place in the market economy because of racism. It also 338 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: preserves a racial cast system that civil rights reforms were 339 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: supposed to abolish. And one of the big issues specifically 340 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,960 Speaker 1: related to the female prison population and something that Piper Kerman, 341 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,639 Speaker 1: who is the real life Piper Chapman talks about a 342 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:41,919 Speaker 1: lot is how a third of prisoners are in for 343 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: non violent drug offenses. In other words, these women aren't 344 00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: going out killing, assaulting, robbing. A lot of times it is, 345 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: as it's portrayed in the show of women being caught 346 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: in the wrong place making poor decision ends, mind you, 347 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,119 Speaker 1: but being in the wrong place at the wrong time 348 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: as part of drug deals that might be going on, 349 00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:13,199 Speaker 1: and the punishment for it in a lot of ways 350 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: is so much greater than the crime because once you 351 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,440 Speaker 1: are in prison, even if you get out, it's so 352 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: hard to stay out. But before we talk about life 353 00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,880 Speaker 1: on the outside, we've got to talk about two big 354 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 1: issues facing women on the inside that Orange is the 355 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 1: New Black doesn't focus in on too much, the first 356 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: of which is sexual assault. Right sexual abuse by guards 357 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:42,719 Speaker 1: is much more likely to happen in women's prisons, and 358 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:46,640 Speaker 1: one prison that is focused on a lot is the 359 00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: Denver Women's Correctional Facility, which has the highest sexual assault 360 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 1: rate in the nation, with ten point seven percent of 361 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: inmates claiming sexual misconduct. And it's should be noted that 362 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 1: the national average is two point four sent and that's 363 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,800 Speaker 1: at least of women who are even reporting this because 364 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: there are plenty of offenders who are scared to report 365 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: sexual assault or rape for fear of retribution. And to 366 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: give you an idea of how sexual abuse by guards 367 00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: compares to the women's prison population versus men's prisons, more 368 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: than three fourths of all reported staff sexual misconduct involves 369 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: women victimized by male correctional officers. And we see a 370 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:34,560 Speaker 1: little bit of that portrayal in Orange is the New Black, 371 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: but it it pales in comparison to what these statistics indicate. 372 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 1: And even before these women end up in prison, a 373 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: lot of times they have already survived some kind of 374 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: sexual abuse. Forty percent of women in prison are survivors 375 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,680 Speaker 1: of physical and sexual abuse, right, And when you think 376 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:58,480 Speaker 1: about what that does to people, I mean a lot 377 00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:00,440 Speaker 1: of times that does put you on a path where 378 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,080 Speaker 1: you are more susceptible to you know, a lifestyle that 379 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,000 Speaker 1: involves drugs or or puts you in you know, bad 380 00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: life situations. And so you know, if you end up 381 00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 1: in prison and abuse is what you've known, and you 382 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 1: just continue to be physically or sexually abused, it can 383 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: be hard to get past that. Yeah, And and and 384 00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:23,639 Speaker 1: thinking about the attendant mental health issues that are coming 385 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: into prison along with these women who have already encountered 386 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:32,679 Speaker 1: so much hardship. Women in state prison in two thousand 387 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,159 Speaker 1: four had a mental health problem. But are those kinds 388 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: of things being addressed while they're in jail while they're 389 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 1: in prison? Probably not, because the system is completely overworked 390 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: and totally flawed, and there are not dedicated resources to 391 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: actually making sure that these women are in good and 392 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,240 Speaker 1: healthy shape inside and out to be prepared to live 393 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,720 Speaker 1: a life away from crime, right And they honestly can't 394 00:26:03,720 --> 00:26:07,680 Speaker 1: even get away from the prison culture when they are 395 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: giving birth. One and thirty three women in federal prisons 396 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:16,160 Speaker 1: are pregnant, and shackling these women when they give birth 397 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,720 Speaker 1: is still legal in thirty two states. And I mean 398 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,639 Speaker 1: this is a practice that the American Medical Association calls 399 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 1: medically hazardous and barbaric. Yeah, I was astounded to learn 400 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: that Illinois became the first state to pass a law 401 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: banning shackling during childbirth in nine nine. Only then did 402 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,639 Speaker 1: we start saying, huh, there seems to be something a 403 00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: little bit wrong with a woman who is giving birth 404 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:45,239 Speaker 1: being handcuffed, her hands handcuffed to the bed frame, and 405 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 1: her feet being handcuffed to the bedframe, and as soon 406 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: as that baby is delivered, it is probably taken away 407 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: from her. There's one prisoner who recounted in an ABC 408 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: News story about this how she gave birth with her hand, 409 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,520 Speaker 1: hands and feet handcuffed and wasn't able to even contact 410 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: her baby until seventy days later. And she didn't her 411 00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,320 Speaker 1: husband was not allowed in the hospital room. It was 412 00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:13,720 Speaker 1: just a guard there with her. And even though Illinois, 413 00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,960 Speaker 1: for instance, has outlawed shackling, it doesn't mean that it's stopped. 414 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: Because there was recently a four point one million dollars 415 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: settlement for eighty Chicago inmates who were shackled between two 416 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: thousand seven and two thousand ten. It's still happening now. 417 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: A two thousand seven anti shackling policy was enacted in 418 00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,680 Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons, but not it should be 419 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,639 Speaker 1: noted on a statewide level. And even if you aren't 420 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: pregnant in prison, an overwhelming majority of the female prison 421 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: population are also mothers. Around two thirds of women are 422 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:54,880 Speaker 1: A hundred and twenty thousand women in prison have children. 423 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: And and what effects does this have on the children? 424 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: Not a one? Not surprisingly no, And you know the 425 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: foster care system exploded in a parallel fashion to the 426 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,840 Speaker 1: explosion of the prison population. So the fact that, I 427 00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:13,959 Speaker 1: mean it's not just women, you know, it's not just mothers, 428 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:17,360 Speaker 1: it's any Any child whose parent or parents have been 429 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 1: in prison are more likely to suffer negative effects. But yeah, 430 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: the the foster more more kids are going into foster 431 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:27,199 Speaker 1: care as more parents are going in to prison. And 432 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: so according to Pew Charitable Trust report, one in every 433 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,119 Speaker 1: twenty eight children in the United States has a parent 434 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,879 Speaker 1: in jail or prison. But when you crystallize that down 435 00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: along racial lines, for African American children, that number is 436 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 1: one in nine and for Hispanic children that's one in 437 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: twenty eight, whereas one in fifty seven White children have 438 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: a parent in jail or prism. And we should also 439 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:58,320 Speaker 1: note that on a population wide basis, there are more 440 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: women in prison with kids than men in prison with kids, 441 00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 1: and a lot of times, because women end up being 442 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: the primary caregiver, having that mom in prison does have 443 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: such a debilitating effect a lot of times for these kids. 444 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,200 Speaker 1: Not to say that if you know a mom is 445 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:21,360 Speaker 1: involved in drug abuse or is living in an unsafe environment, 446 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 1: that that that's a good thing. For the kid. But 447 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: it's but it's like it's such it's yet another argument 448 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 1: for rehabilitating rather than just incarcerating. Right. Well, along these 449 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: same lines, one horrifying thing that came to light several 450 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,200 Speaker 1: months ago was the issue of sterilization of women who 451 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: give birth while they're in prison. Um this is coming 452 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:52,200 Speaker 1: from the Center for Investigative Reporting. California prisons have sterilized 453 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: nearly two fifty women over the past few decades, and 454 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:57,840 Speaker 1: nearly a hundred and fifty of those were between two 455 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 1: thousand and six and twenty in and they talked to O. B. G. 456 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: Y N. James Heinrich, who's in this California prison, and 457 00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 1: his defense is kind of chilling. He says that spending 458 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 1: money to sterilize these women is better than spending money 459 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:20,360 Speaker 1: on welfare for these unwanted children as they procreate more. Yeah, 460 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,760 Speaker 1: and and you know, and so the the issue behind this, 461 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: the controversy, it's it's not like these women are saying, hey, 462 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,560 Speaker 1: would you mind a lot of times this is its coercion, 463 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: it's forced, it's you know. This one woman's account was that, 464 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: you know, as she was getting closer and closer to 465 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,240 Speaker 1: her due date, this Heinrich. This Dr Heinrich was like, 466 00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 1: you know, you should really think about it. Are you 467 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: gonna do it? You're gonna do it. We're gonna do it, right, 468 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: And so, you know, the day came and he you know, 469 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,440 Speaker 1: just went ahead and did it. That's horrifying because it's 470 00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: so indicative of how a lot of times people men, women, 471 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,520 Speaker 1: kids alike who end up in the criminal justice system 472 00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: for whatever reason, ceased to be a person, and they 473 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,080 Speaker 1: just become a statistic, they become a problem, you know. 474 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: And yeah, it is expensive to pay for people to 475 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,640 Speaker 1: be in jail. It's about sixty dollars a year to 476 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,320 Speaker 1: pay for of tax payer money to pay for one 477 00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: woman who's in prison. And that's insane. But that's not 478 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 1: the problem of you know, it's it's a it's a 479 00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: system wide problem. I feel like that's a top down issue. Sterilization. 480 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: Treating those women like animals in a lot of ways 481 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,800 Speaker 1: is certainly not going to stop that cycle, right, And 482 00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: it's it's just it was so horrifying, partially because you know, 483 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 1: this country does have a history of doing that, but 484 00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,720 Speaker 1: doing it particularly to people of color, and so to 485 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 1: hear the story that California prisons have so recently still 486 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:53,920 Speaker 1: been forcing women or coercing women into it. It's that 487 00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 1: is eye opening, and that doesn't change the fact that 488 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 1: there are still what two thirds of women in prison 489 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: who go into prison already with kids, and those kids 490 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,720 Speaker 1: are at heightened risk first getting in trouble at school, depression, 491 00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: and then ending up in jail. So it really is cyclical, 492 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: which leads us to the problem with recidivism of leaving 493 00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:22,440 Speaker 1: and getting right back, because roughly four and ten adult 494 00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:27,080 Speaker 1: American offenders will return to prison within three years of 495 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: their release, according to a two thousand eleven report from 496 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 1: the Pew Charitable Trusts. Right, and so this is going 497 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 1: back to the tasty character on Orange is the New 498 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,480 Speaker 1: Black when she does talk about how much she had 499 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,440 Speaker 1: to deal with and what landed her back in prison, 500 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: because prisoners simply don't just walk out. Um, you have 501 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: all sorts of parole and probation fees, jail book in fees, 502 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 1: jail per dams for pre trialed attention, presentenced report fees, 503 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,960 Speaker 1: just so much, so many little rules and regulations and 504 00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,760 Speaker 1: so much bign that you have to deal with once 505 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: you get released from jail. And if for instance, you 506 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:08,840 Speaker 1: have a felony drug conviction, you're ineligible for housing assistance. 507 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:11,240 Speaker 1: And I think that the housing issue is one thing 508 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: that landed Tasty back in jail. And the show she 509 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,440 Speaker 1: had nowhere to go, she had nowhere to sleep. What 510 00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,760 Speaker 1: are you going to do? Um? And only about ten 511 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: percent of inmates attend educational, vocational or treatment programs on 512 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: a given day, not necessarily because they don't want to, 513 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:36,040 Speaker 1: but because those rehabilitational programs are often not offered, probably 514 00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,720 Speaker 1: because there's not money for it, there aren't resources, and 515 00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:44,680 Speaker 1: the way that we often dehumanize the people who need 516 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: those kinds of resources. And it's unfortunate because research from 517 00:33:50,400 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: Pew and other sources have shown the benefits monetary and 518 00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:01,239 Speaker 1: otherwise that are reaped when you install occasional vocational, et 519 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: cetera kinds of training programs for prisoners. Right because Kerman 520 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:09,239 Speaker 1: real life Piper talked about how you know, she did 521 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: attend some of those classes even though she herself had 522 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: a man and a job waiting for her when she 523 00:34:14,239 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: got out of prison. You know, she she talked about 524 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: going to some of those quote unquote classes and how 525 00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:21,399 Speaker 1: she went to a housing class. You know, where people 526 00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: have questions about like how do I get an apartment, 527 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,400 Speaker 1: how do I pay rent? Like how do I do 528 00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:27,839 Speaker 1: this and that? But they were teaching them about home 529 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: repair and applying siting to the side of your house, 530 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,959 Speaker 1: or you know, just really random things like that where 531 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,280 Speaker 1: it's like, well, this isn't helping anyone, it's not real life, 532 00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:43,920 Speaker 1: you know, reality based teaching. Yeah, and in prison vocation programs, 533 00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:48,560 Speaker 1: for instance, like preparing people to get jobs, which is 534 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: really really hard if you are a felon, especially, those 535 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,760 Speaker 1: kinds of programs produce net benefits of over thirteen dollars 536 00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:02,360 Speaker 1: per offender or over twelve of dollars for every dollar invested, 537 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 1: and will net a drop in recidivism. So that's just 538 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: one example of how the system could not only help 539 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,239 Speaker 1: these people, but also help stop the cycle that has 540 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:24,440 Speaker 1: led to this overwhelming like metasticizing prison population where prisons 541 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:27,839 Speaker 1: are in jails are now being outsourced to private companies, 542 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:31,440 Speaker 1: for profit companies. We don't have room for our prison 543 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: population in the United States. Isn't that crazy to think 544 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:38,759 Speaker 1: about that we arrest so many people and have no 545 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:41,480 Speaker 1: place to put them. Well, I mean, you know, I'm 546 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: saying this from a privileged position obviously, but it doesn't 547 00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: it seem like it's common sense. Two and I realized 548 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: this is moving a mountain. It doesn't seem like it's 549 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:55,560 Speaker 1: common sense to put more effort and money into community 550 00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: programs thanks to actually help people, whether you're someone who 551 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,760 Speaker 1: has been in jail or or not, but to help 552 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: strengthen communities and educate people so that they don't cycle back. Yeah, 553 00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's such a comprehensive problem that 554 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:17,839 Speaker 1: you could talk about from the way that prisons are 555 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,640 Speaker 1: set up all the way to how our laws are established. 556 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,719 Speaker 1: And I mean there have been, um, there has been 557 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:30,759 Speaker 1: recent news about eliminating UH mandatory minimum sentences for drug offenses, 558 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,520 Speaker 1: which would cut down a lot on all of these 559 00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: massive numbers of drug offenders who are currently behind bars. Um. 560 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: And then you take it back even further to education, 561 00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 1: keeping kids in school, keeping families intact, etcetera. You know, Yeah, 562 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:55,040 Speaker 1: it's the problem of our exploding prisons is bigger than 563 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:59,880 Speaker 1: those prisons for sure, exactly. Um. And to me, the 564 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: if there is good news, UM, it's that there are 565 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:10,000 Speaker 1: people like Piper Kerman who are really trying to shine 566 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: a light on these issues. I think it's a good 567 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:15,319 Speaker 1: thing that, even though it might not be the most 568 00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,799 Speaker 1: realistic portrayal of women's prison, I think that it's great 569 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 1: that Gingi Cohen made Orange is the New Black, and 570 00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm glad that it has hit such a cultural nerve 571 00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 1: and that people are asking these questions of, oh, well, 572 00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: what's what's it like in real life? And I think 573 00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,319 Speaker 1: the reason why we're so curious to know how it 574 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:38,239 Speaker 1: applies to real life because it highlights these women as 575 00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 1: real people and not just oh oh, they're just prisoners, 576 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:47,080 Speaker 1: are just offenders, they're just criminals. Keep them away from me. Well. 577 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,280 Speaker 1: There's a point in one of the episodes where Red 578 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,640 Speaker 1: is talking to Natasha Leon's character, um, and you know, 579 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: Natasha Leone is saying something and Red is like, well, 580 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: you know, what are the what are the town expeirs care? 581 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,720 Speaker 1: They don't care. You know, we're eating this junk because 582 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,799 Speaker 1: they're just trying to watch what the bottom line is. 583 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: You know, we're the bad guys. And I think I 584 00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,160 Speaker 1: think there is that attitude of like, well, I don't 585 00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: care about what anything is like in prison for prisoners 586 00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,720 Speaker 1: because they're prisoners. They're bad guys and it's like, well, 587 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,640 Speaker 1: but you have to look at the cultural effect, the 588 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: societal effect that all of this is having exactly. Um. 589 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,520 Speaker 1: And can I close off with a really long quote 590 00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: from Piper Kerman please please do who after after learning 591 00:38:30,480 --> 00:38:33,879 Speaker 1: more about her and what she does and how she 592 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:38,719 Speaker 1: uses her now very elevated platform to advocate for those 593 00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:41,160 Speaker 1: women that she was imprisoned with and who are in 594 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 1: prison right now, I have so much respect for her. Um. 595 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,960 Speaker 1: And she was talking to the Washington Post about the 596 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,480 Speaker 1: current state of the women's prison population, and she says, 597 00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,840 Speaker 1: I think that women in prison are really emblematic of typical, 598 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:59,760 Speaker 1: low level, non violent offenders. That is a giant growth 599 00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,000 Speaker 1: air in terms of our prison system over the last 600 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: thirty years. We're putting people in prison who we never 601 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: would have put in prison before. And there's a staggering 602 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,879 Speaker 1: social cost when we talk about the families, but also 603 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,359 Speaker 1: it costs about sixty dollars a year and that adds 604 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,400 Speaker 1: up really quickly. And we're talking about someone who was 605 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,840 Speaker 1: not this prominent threat to safety. It's just a policy 606 00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: and that's it. And families and communities are being destroyed 607 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,719 Speaker 1: because of it. Yeah, So what can people do if 608 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 1: they want to help out if they are my if 609 00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 1: they are as concerned about what life is really like 610 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,920 Speaker 1: in women's prisons and in jails and prisons in general, 611 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,120 Speaker 1: what what can people do to help out? Well, there 612 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: is the Women's Prison Association, which is what Piper Kerman 613 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,560 Speaker 1: is affiliated with. That's at w p A online dot org. 614 00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 1: And then there is this Sentencing Project which we referenced earlier, 615 00:39:52,440 --> 00:39:56,680 Speaker 1: and that is at Sentencing Project dot org. So now 616 00:39:56,719 --> 00:40:00,440 Speaker 1: I want to hear from you. Mom Stuff at Discovery 617 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 1: dot com is where you can send your emails thoughts 618 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,880 Speaker 1: on Orange as a new Black women's prison, the criminal 619 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,680 Speaker 1: justice system. I know we threw a lot of information 620 00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,040 Speaker 1: at you for this one, but it's a really big 621 00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:15,279 Speaker 1: one to tackle, So we want to hear all of 622 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 1: your thoughts mom stuff at Discovery dot com. You can 623 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:19,879 Speaker 1: also hit us up on Facebook or tweet us at 624 00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,520 Speaker 1: mom Stuff podcast. And we've got a couple of letters 625 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:38,359 Speaker 1: to share right after. And now back to our letters. Well, 626 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,520 Speaker 1: since we're about to wrap up our special series on 627 00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,040 Speaker 1: lean in women work in the Will to Lead by 628 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,720 Speaker 1: Cheryl Sandberg, who want to share a couple of letters 629 00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,600 Speaker 1: from our episode on the workplace fear factor This is 630 00:40:52,600 --> 00:40:55,920 Speaker 1: a letter from Cynthia. She says, I'm a chemistry professor 631 00:40:56,080 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 1: at a large public university. I've always felt like it 632 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,239 Speaker 1: was a complete act accident that I was accepted to 633 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,439 Speaker 1: a top graduate program. I would get so worried about 634 00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,080 Speaker 1: it that I wouldn't participate in the extremely important study 635 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,960 Speaker 1: groups my first year, instead choosing to cry over my 636 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 1: intelligible books alone. Later, I found that many of my classmates, 637 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,439 Speaker 1: male and female, felt the same. However, we women would 638 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: over prepare and obsessed to the point that it was 639 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,239 Speaker 1: detrimental to our health. My graduate adviser, another woman who 640 00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,320 Speaker 1: admits to strong impostor syndrome, taught me to fake it 641 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,320 Speaker 1: until I make it. Well, I've now made it, and 642 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: every day I feel more and more like I deserve it. 643 00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:33,840 Speaker 1: I've worked my butt off, darn it, and I'm a 644 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,719 Speaker 1: great chemist because of it. She says, keep up your 645 00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: good work. I love your podcast, so thank you, Cynthia, 646 00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:43,719 Speaker 1: and keep up your chemistry. She's very cool. Well, I've 647 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,759 Speaker 1: got one here from Becca, subject line impostor in the Laboratory. 648 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:50,680 Speaker 1: She writes, I'm a recent college graduate who was fortunate 649 00:41:50,760 --> 00:41:53,399 Speaker 1: enough to land a fantastic job in a research lab 650 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,400 Speaker 1: straight out of school. I don't admit this to anyone, 651 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,120 Speaker 1: but I really only got the job through personal connections. 652 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,319 Speaker 1: It's true that this isn't really unusual, but knowing that 653 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,799 Speaker 1: I didn't earn the job through merit alone has made 654 00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:08,560 Speaker 1: me feel like a total impostor. I am surrounded by 655 00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:11,480 Speaker 1: intelligent individuals, and I often doubt my ability to work 656 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,480 Speaker 1: alongside them. I'm three months into this job, and I 657 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:17,239 Speaker 1: have to say that this impostor syndrome has been strangely 658 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,480 Speaker 1: motivational for me. My first month here was shaky, and 659 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:24,120 Speaker 1: I felt really undeserving of this position. However, I harnessed 660 00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,000 Speaker 1: that uneasiness and I have been working really hard to 661 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: prove that I belong here. Apparently my hard work is 662 00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:32,480 Speaker 1: paying off. Last week, my supervisor told me she was 663 00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 1: impressed with my work. Thanks for the great podcast. You 664 00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,720 Speaker 1: two have helped me through hours of culturing cells, extracting DNA, 665 00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:43,480 Speaker 1: and countless other tests that sound more exciting than they 666 00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,200 Speaker 1: really are. So keep on rocking at Becca and everybody 667 00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: else who's listening. Mom Stuff at Discovery dot com is 668 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,680 Speaker 1: where you can send your letters. You can tweet us 669 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,560 Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast. Find us on Facebook and follow 670 00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:58,920 Speaker 1: us on Tumbler, where it's stuff Mom Never told You 671 00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:04,360 Speaker 1: dot tumbler dot com. And check out our pictures on Instagram. 672 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: That's right, We're on Instagram at stuff Mom Never told You. 673 00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: And finally, don't forget to tune in this Friday to 674 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:15,919 Speaker 1: the final chapter in our exploration on Cheryl Sandberg's book 675 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:20,000 Speaker 1: Lean In, and don't forget to tune in over on 676 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:24,600 Speaker 1: YouTube for new videos every week coming out YouTube dot com, 677 00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:27,560 Speaker 1: slash stuff Mom Never Told You, and don't forget to 678 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:33,240 Speaker 1: subscribe for more on this and thousands of other topics. 679 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: Doesn't how Stuff Works dot com