1
00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:11,520
Speaker 1: Hey, Jorgey, do you have your antimatter snack yet? I

2
00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:17,000
Speaker 1: had a banana as usual. It's anti slip. Does that count? No?

3
00:00:17,440 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 1: But you do know that bananas give off antimatter radiation,

4
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:26,520
Speaker 1: don't you wait? What that's bananas? Isn't that dangerous. It's

5
00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,200
Speaker 1: so little that it doesn't really matter. That's why you're

6
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,120
Speaker 1: so matter of fact about it. That's why it annihilated

7
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:34,960
Speaker 1: my taste for bananas. Well, the important thing is that

8
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,720
Speaker 1: it annihilates your hunger. That's the whole point of eating food,

9
00:00:37,840 --> 00:00:55,840
Speaker 1: is the antimatter of hunger. Hi am or Handy, cartoonist

10
00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:58,760
Speaker 1: and the creator of PhD comics. Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm

11
00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,600
Speaker 1: a particle physicist and a professor at U C Irvine.

12
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:05,560
Speaker 1: And it really has been years since I had a banana. Years.

13
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,640
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I feel sorry for you. Why are

14
00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,319
Speaker 1: you depriving yourself and one of life's simplest pleasures. Although

15
00:01:12,360 --> 00:01:15,120
Speaker 1: I recently convinced my daughter to start eating bananas, so

16
00:01:15,160 --> 00:01:18,240
Speaker 1: now we have bananas around the house. Oh my goodness. Wait,

17
00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:20,960
Speaker 1: why are you recommending it to your daughter but not

18
00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,880
Speaker 1: having any yourself. You know, it's a very personal question,

19
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,400
Speaker 1: person to person, I mean you brought it up, and

20
00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,319
Speaker 1: I'm just asking a fallow up question. I just mean

21
00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:32,320
Speaker 1: that it's subjective. You know, one person can love bananas,

22
00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,119
Speaker 1: another person can hate them. To slippery slope, some people

23
00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,199
Speaker 1: find them appealing. Welcome to a podcast Daniel and Jorge

24
00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:42,160
Speaker 1: Explained the Universe, a production of Our Heart Radio in

25
00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:46,600
Speaker 1: which we try to explain our subjective, our personal experience

26
00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:49,440
Speaker 1: of the universe the way that it seems to us.

27
00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:52,760
Speaker 1: All this data that we gather with our eyeballs, biological

28
00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:55,600
Speaker 1: and technological, the things that we see out there in

29
00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:58,680
Speaker 1: the universe, we want to understand all of them. We

30
00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:01,360
Speaker 1: want the whole universe to be a story that makes

31
00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,320
Speaker 1: sense to the human brain. This is part of course,

32
00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:07,560
Speaker 1: the long journey of science and trying to wrap up

33
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,400
Speaker 1: the mysteries of the cosmos into something we understand. And

34
00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,880
Speaker 1: our goal on this podcast is to take you on

35
00:02:12,880 --> 00:02:15,440
Speaker 1: that journey and explain all of it to you. Yeah,

36
00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 1: because it is a very mysterious universe, full of amazing

37
00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,600
Speaker 1: things that are happening in it, and a lot of

38
00:02:20,639 --> 00:02:23,080
Speaker 1: things that we don't understand, even things that we take

39
00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:25,760
Speaker 1: for granted on an everyday basis. Yeah, there are so

40
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,840
Speaker 1: many basic questions about the universe that we do not

41
00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:32,480
Speaker 1: have answers to, which means that for you young folks listening,

42
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:36,080
Speaker 1: you future scientists, there are plenty of discoveries left to

43
00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,359
Speaker 1: be made, lots and lots of open questions for you

44
00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,440
Speaker 1: to explore. These are big questions about the universe, about

45
00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:45,640
Speaker 1: our very existence, of why we're here and how it

46
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,120
Speaker 1: is that we are here because there is a lot

47
00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 1: of the things in the universe that matter, and also

48
00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,120
Speaker 1: a lot of things that antimatter, like bananas. I wasn't

49
00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,320
Speaker 1: joking that bananas produced antimatter. That's a real thing. Oh yeah,

50
00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,919
Speaker 1: But is an antimatter dangerous? Like if you touch antimatter,

51
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,600
Speaker 1: you explode anti matter. When it hits real matter, it

52
00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:07,120
Speaker 1: will annihilate into photons. But bananas contain potassium, which is unstable.

53
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:12,680
Speaker 1: It undergoes radioactive decay, emitting positrons, which are anti electrons,

54
00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,119
Speaker 1: and when those do hit your body, they will annihilate

55
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,720
Speaker 1: and create a tiny little flash of light. But it's

56
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 1: such a tiny amount of antimatter that it doesn't really matter. Well,

57
00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:23,680
Speaker 1: that's why I eat bananas, because you know, it makes

58
00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,720
Speaker 1: me glow, makes me feel lighter too. There isn't potassium

59
00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:29,840
Speaker 1: in everything. I mean, it's all around us too, right,

60
00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:32,079
Speaker 1: It's not just bananas that have potassium. That's right. It's

61
00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,320
Speaker 1: not just bananas that have potassium. And it's all sorts

62
00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:37,400
Speaker 1: of other things that also radioactively decay. So it's actually

63
00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:39,720
Speaker 1: anti matter sort of all around us all the time.

64
00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,920
Speaker 1: It's also showering down on us from the atmosphere because

65
00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,480
Speaker 1: of cosmic ray impacts. Yeah, there are all kinds of

66
00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,240
Speaker 1: amazing things showering us at the moment right now and

67
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:52,440
Speaker 1: enveloping us, and and for a lot of those things,

68
00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,440
Speaker 1: we still have big questions about them, even big things

69
00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 1: like gravity. Anti matter is fascinating. It appears in science fiction,

70
00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,720
Speaker 1: but it's also some thing that's real. It's one of

71
00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,080
Speaker 1: these interesting hints that the universe is more complex than

72
00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,360
Speaker 1: just the stuff that we are made out of, that

73
00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: the universe is capable of doing many more things than

74
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,560
Speaker 1: can just be found out of the particles that we

75
00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,040
Speaker 1: are made of. There are all sorts of other weird

76
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,600
Speaker 1: possible particles out there, and they all give us hints

77
00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:22,160
Speaker 1: about what the underlying rules are governing the universe itself.

78
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,480
Speaker 1: And you're right, because ant matter is so rare. There

79
00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,400
Speaker 1: are basic questions we have about its properties, Yeah, including

80
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,720
Speaker 1: something as basic as gravity, gravity, which you know we

81
00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,960
Speaker 1: kind of depend on every day of our lives to

82
00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,920
Speaker 1: stay on planet Earth. Without gravity, we'd all be floating

83
00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,440
Speaker 1: out there in space. That's not something I ever worry about,

84
00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 1: but maybe I should start to do. We need to

85
00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,920
Speaker 1: like look at the gravity prediction every day as well

86
00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 1: as the weather prediction. Well, I know it's a heavy

87
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:49,640
Speaker 1: burden to be carrying around worrying about gravity, but it

88
00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,120
Speaker 1: seems to be pretty reliable. Right. We ever noticed any

89
00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,120
Speaker 1: change in your gravity? I mean, I don't want to

90
00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,800
Speaker 1: enquire about your weight or anything like that. That's also

91
00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:02,240
Speaker 1: personal information. That definitely explains it. Right, It's not that

92
00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:04,640
Speaker 1: I'm getting heavier and heavier. It's at the gravity of

93
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 1: the Earth itself is increasing. Sounds like you have an

94
00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:11,800
Speaker 1: amazing experiment in at hand here, But it does raise

95
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:15,800
Speaker 1: a lot of interesting questions about gravity and antimatter, specifically

96
00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:20,320
Speaker 1: whether or not they are the same for everything in

97
00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:23,240
Speaker 1: the universe. That's right, antimatter seems to be like the

98
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:26,760
Speaker 1: opposite of matter in so many interesting ways, and so

99
00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,440
Speaker 1: people also wonder whether or not antimatter falls down or

100
00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:36,560
Speaker 1: whether it might possibly fall up, like does antimatter fail upwards?

101
00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:40,080
Speaker 1: So today on the program we'll be tackling the question

102
00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:50,680
Speaker 1: does antimatter feel anti gravity? Interesting? Now, are you saying

103
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:54,039
Speaker 1: it might feel anti gravity or it has anti feelings

104
00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,719
Speaker 1: against gravity? We should invite it onto the podcast to

105
00:05:56,760 --> 00:06:00,240
Speaker 1: ask it what its emotional response is to gravity. But

106
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,120
Speaker 1: I think today we're focusing on a more physics question,

107
00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,040
Speaker 1: which is just like, when gravity does this thing, where

108
00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 1: does antimatter go? Doesn't like run away from gravity? Is

109
00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,839
Speaker 1: that what you mean? Because antimatter is the opposite of

110
00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,640
Speaker 1: matter in so many interesting ways, Yet we also really

111
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:21,120
Speaker 1: don't understand how gravity works for fundamental particles. We think

112
00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,160
Speaker 1: about gravity in terms of like boulders or basketballs, or baseballs,

113
00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:28,120
Speaker 1: or even little bits of sand, But once we get

114
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,479
Speaker 1: down to the quantum level, those particles do things that baseball's,

115
00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,599
Speaker 1: basketballs and bits of sand can't do, and we don't

116
00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,120
Speaker 1: really know how to apply gravity to those situations, which

117
00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,039
Speaker 1: opens up all sorts of questions like maybe it does

118
00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:43,839
Speaker 1: the opposite of what it does for normal matter. Do

119
00:06:43,880 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 1: you think antimatter minds that we call it antimatter? Like

120
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,600
Speaker 1: maybe it just has a different opinion about the universe.

121
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 1: You know, maybe it's just pro something else. Yeah, I

122
00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,600
Speaker 1: think in the antimatter galaxies that might be out there

123
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,479
Speaker 1: in deep space. On their podcast, they're probably calling us

124
00:06:58,560 --> 00:07:01,479
Speaker 1: the antimatter yeah. Or maybe there's a third opinion, you know,

125
00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 1: why does it have to be so adversarial these politics

126
00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:08,719
Speaker 1: of physics? Stop the polarization of physics exactly, it's all

127
00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 1: just matter. Yeah, it's not helping our society for sure. Well,

128
00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:14,720
Speaker 1: as usual, we were wondering how many people have thought

129
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,600
Speaker 1: about anti matter and whether it feels gravity, or whether

130
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,200
Speaker 1: it feels anti gravity, or whether anti feels gravity. So

131
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:26,920
Speaker 1: thanks very much to everybody who participates in this segment

132
00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,080
Speaker 1: of the podcast. If you would like to try answering

133
00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 1: the question of the day, please feel free to write in.

134
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:34,280
Speaker 1: We'll set you up and you can hear your voice

135
00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,480
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Think about it for a second. Do

136
00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:41,600
Speaker 1: you think antimatter falls down or up? Here's what people

137
00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,480
Speaker 1: had to say, pravity, because anti gravity might be things

138
00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,120
Speaker 1: pushing each other apart. What do you think gravity or

139
00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:54,040
Speaker 1: anti gravity? I feel like anti matter still has mass.

140
00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,480
Speaker 1: It doesn't have like anti mass, so I don't think

141
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:59,960
Speaker 1: it feels anti gravity. Do we know if there's anti gravity?

142
00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,760
Speaker 1: Is their uncle gravity? I think that antimatter feel gravity

143
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,160
Speaker 1: in the same way that normal matter feels gravity, and

144
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,680
Speaker 1: anti gravity, I think is we don't know if that

145
00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,760
Speaker 1: even exists. Well, if I remember your lessons on anti matter,

146
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,320
Speaker 1: it should feel gravity because any matter is just regular

147
00:08:19,360 --> 00:08:22,920
Speaker 1: matter with opposite chart. I know that matter feels gravity

148
00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,120
Speaker 1: because of the bending of spacetime towards something with mass.

149
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,160
Speaker 1: I don't really know what anti matter is and whether

150
00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:34,080
Speaker 1: it exists in another field or spatial field than mass.

151
00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,800
Speaker 1: But I suppose in the field that anti matter exists,

152
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 1: maybe there's the bending of that field, which would be

153
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,400
Speaker 1: called anti gravity, So I'd say it does feel anti gravity. Alright,

154
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,760
Speaker 1: a lot of very pro and anti pocisitions on this question.

155
00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: My emotions go up and down as I was listening

156
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,920
Speaker 1: to those things. I like how people were anti knowing

157
00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:59,040
Speaker 1: an answer. What happens when knowledge collides with anti knowledge.

158
00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:01,959
Speaker 1: You probably get the current state of affairs right now

159
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,800
Speaker 1: in the world. You get a physics podcast about the

160
00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,640
Speaker 1: mysteries of the universe. But it is an interesting question

161
00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:12,439
Speaker 1: whether antimatter feels anti gravity, because I guess antimatter feels

162
00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,679
Speaker 1: natively about a lot of things. Yeah, antimatter is one

163
00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:18,920
Speaker 1: of my favorite ideas in physics because it shows you

164
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:21,360
Speaker 1: that our matter isn't the only kind of matter that

165
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,880
Speaker 1: can be out there. There's like the opposite of our

166
00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,719
Speaker 1: kind of matter. Though, like what exactly opposite means is

167
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,320
Speaker 1: a bit of a question philosophically, Right, Well, I guess

168
00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,600
Speaker 1: maybe start with the basics what is matter for of all?

169
00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,040
Speaker 1: Because I know there are matter particles and there are

170
00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,440
Speaker 1: force particles, right, I think the basic idea is that

171
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,680
Speaker 1: the universe is filled with quantum fields, and some of

172
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:46,640
Speaker 1: these are matter quantum fields. Right. Yeah, what we call

173
00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,520
Speaker 1: matter is what you and I are made out of.

174
00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,880
Speaker 1: We call it matter because it's the first thing we discovered,

175
00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,520
Speaker 1: and so we sort of named it the normal stuff.

176
00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:57,000
Speaker 1: And you and I are made of these particles electrons

177
00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,600
Speaker 1: and protons and neutrons, which are of course made up

178
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,000
Speaker 1: of core works inside them. And as you say, they

179
00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,480
Speaker 1: are all bound together by forces, the electromagnetic force, the

180
00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,120
Speaker 1: weak nuclear force, the strong force, which all use particles

181
00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,000
Speaker 1: to communicate with each other. So there's like the photon

182
00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,280
Speaker 1: for the electromagnetic force and the gluon for the strong

183
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,200
Speaker 1: nuclear force. And so you and I are like this

184
00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 1: big complicated mesh of particles all weaving themselves together to

185
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:25,280
Speaker 1: make me and you. Right, and we are made out

186
00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:29,400
Speaker 1: of the basic three kinds of matter particles, right, electrons,

187
00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,480
Speaker 1: and one type of forks, and another type of cork.

188
00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:36,439
Speaker 1: And wait, a third type of cork. Right, three courts?

189
00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:38,720
Speaker 1: How many quarks are there? There are six quarks that

190
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: we have discovered, the up cork and the down cork.

191
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 1: Those two are the ones that we find mostly in

192
00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,280
Speaker 1: the proton and the neutron, although there is a little

193
00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 1: bit of other kinds of quirks sometimes appearing in the

194
00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:52,679
Speaker 1: proton and neutron, but for the most part, it's up

195
00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,800
Speaker 1: quarks and down corks make protons and neutrons, and you

196
00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,400
Speaker 1: add electrons to complete the atom. Right, So we're made

197
00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:01,080
Speaker 1: out of those kinds of icles, and most of most

198
00:11:01,120 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 1: of the stuff in the universe is made out of

199
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,640
Speaker 1: those three particles, right, Like the planets, the stars, the

200
00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,840
Speaker 1: comments out there, the asteroids, the whole galaxies are basically

201
00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:12,400
Speaker 1: those three kinds of particles. Right. Yeah, we think that

202
00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:16,240
Speaker 1: our entire solar system, our entire galaxy, our cluster of

203
00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,880
Speaker 1: galaxy is all made out of this same kind of

204
00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:21,400
Speaker 1: basic stuff that these basic building blocks can be put

205
00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:23,960
Speaker 1: together in lots of different ways to make stars and

206
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:26,800
Speaker 1: lava and weasels and peanut butter and all the stuff

207
00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,440
Speaker 1: that we know in the universe. And that's why we

208
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:31,440
Speaker 1: call it matter. And on a semantic note, I would

209
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 1: include also the force particles, you know, the gluons and

210
00:11:34,520 --> 00:11:37,199
Speaker 1: the photons and things that tie them together to really

211
00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:39,520
Speaker 1: make them who we are. So we're not just like

212
00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,560
Speaker 1: a loose pile of particles as constituting matter in this case.

213
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:47,120
Speaker 1: I know, sometimes particle physicists distinguished between matter particles and

214
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 1: force particles, but when we're talking about matter and versus antimatter,

215
00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,480
Speaker 1: I think it makes more sense to just lump it

216
00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:56,920
Speaker 1: all together as matter. Okay, shifting definitions here of basic

217
00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,640
Speaker 1: things like matter and force. I guess we're all a

218
00:11:59,640 --> 00:12:02,320
Speaker 1: little bit das to that. But also that's the stuff

219
00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,000
Speaker 1: that we're made out of. But there's also other stuff

220
00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:08,160
Speaker 1: in the universe in this category of matter, right, there's

221
00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:11,560
Speaker 1: like heavier electrons and heavier courts. Yes, there are other

222
00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 1: versions of these particles. This is one of the really

223
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:18,480
Speaker 1: fascinating things about particle physics is that the particles we know,

224
00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 1: the electron, the upcork, and the down cork have these reflections.

225
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,640
Speaker 1: That's what I meant earlier about the sort of philosophical

226
00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:27,400
Speaker 1: definition of opposite. Because with the particles we know, there

227
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,400
Speaker 1: are several versions of them. So even before we talk

228
00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:33,480
Speaker 1: about antimatter, as you said, there are heavier versions of

229
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,160
Speaker 1: these particles, so they're sort of reflected in this one

230
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,280
Speaker 1: dimension along mass. So there's like a heavier version of

231
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,040
Speaker 1: the electron it's called a muon, and a heavier version

232
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,560
Speaker 1: of the up cork it's called a charm cork. And

233
00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,440
Speaker 1: then there's a second reflection, right, So there's the muan

234
00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:50,400
Speaker 1: and then the towel is the upcork, the charm cork,

235
00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 1: and then the top cork. So each of these basic

236
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,560
Speaker 1: particles of matter that we know, there's two more versions

237
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,960
Speaker 1: of each of them. So it's this weird reflection of

238
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,080
Speaker 1: the kinds of matter that we're familiar with along the

239
00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:04,960
Speaker 1: mass access they're heavier versions of each of these. Well,

240
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,240
Speaker 1: not all the particles, right, the force particles don't have

241
00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: heavier cousins, do they. Yeah, that's right. Only the fermions

242
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,000
Speaker 1: have these heavier cousins. We're not aware of any heavier

243
00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:18,400
Speaker 1: version of the photon or the z boson. Okay, but

244
00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,640
Speaker 1: there is something called antimatter particles, which is like if

245
00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,800
Speaker 1: you take all of those particles you mentioned, the ones

246
00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 1: we're made out of their heavier cousins. And also in

247
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:30,280
Speaker 1: some ways, if you also take the force particles and

248
00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:33,199
Speaker 1: numpit amount in, there's a whole other version of all

249
00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 1: of those particles that are called antimatter. That's exactly right.

250
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,959
Speaker 1: So all these particles that were aware of, there's another

251
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,839
Speaker 1: way they're reflected, not just like there's a heavier version

252
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,760
Speaker 1: of them, but now there's like this opposite version of

253
00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,640
Speaker 1: them where we take all the charges, for example, and

254
00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 1: we flip them, so the electron has charged minus one.

255
00:13:50,440 --> 00:13:52,880
Speaker 1: There's another version of the electron, which we call the

256
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:57,160
Speaker 1: antimatter version of the electron. Sometimes we call it a positron,

257
00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,920
Speaker 1: which has charged plus one. So it's reflected in this

258
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:04,280
Speaker 1: like different direction. And that's true also for the muan

259
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,280
Speaker 1: and for the up cork, and for the down cork

260
00:14:06,320 --> 00:14:10,560
Speaker 1: and the top cork. All these particles have their antimatter versions.

261
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:14,680
Speaker 1: So the antimatter versions are when you flip their charges,

262
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,959
Speaker 1: which is related to the kind of force they feel, right,

263
00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,960
Speaker 1: Like electrons feel the electromagnetic force, which means they have

264
00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,120
Speaker 1: a charge, and that's what you flip to get the

265
00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:27,440
Speaker 1: anti electron exactly. And we're talking here just about the

266
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,160
Speaker 1: electric charge, which is a label that we put on

267
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:34,480
Speaker 1: particles that feel the electromagnetic force. And a minus charge

268
00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:37,560
Speaker 1: means one thing, and a positive charge means something else.

269
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,440
Speaker 1: And we know, for example that like positive negative charges

270
00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,960
Speaker 1: will pull on each other and similar charges will repel

271
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 1: each other. So that's a label we put on particles

272
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,960
Speaker 1: to describe how they react to electromagnetic fields. And so

273
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,200
Speaker 1: an electron an apostitron are the same, except they react

274
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 1: oppositely to these fields. The same electromagnetic field which pushes

275
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,640
Speaker 1: an electron up will push a positron down, so it

276
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,479
Speaker 1: has the same mass as an electron, but the opposite

277
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 1: electric charge. Right. And then other particles like the corks,

278
00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,120
Speaker 1: they don't feel the electromagnetic force, right, so they don't

279
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:13,080
Speaker 1: have electrical charge. Right. Corks do have electromagnetic charge, but

280
00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:16,280
Speaker 1: they're really weird. They're like plus two thirds or minus

281
00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,120
Speaker 1: one third, so they definitely feel electromagnetic fields. You just

282
00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,160
Speaker 1: don't typically think of them as doing so because they

283
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:24,600
Speaker 1: also have a charge for a much more powerful force,

284
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: a strong nuclear force. So they have the electric charge

285
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:31,000
Speaker 1: and they also have this color charge for the strong

286
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,200
Speaker 1: nuclear force. Okay, so of course feel the color charge

287
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,920
Speaker 1: and also the electric charge. Now, then is an anti

288
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:41,360
Speaker 1: cork something that has both of those things flipped or

289
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,920
Speaker 1: just one of those things flipped. Both of those things

290
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:47,440
Speaker 1: get flipped for an antiquark exactly. And I guess that's

291
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:49,200
Speaker 1: true for all the other particles. But what about the

292
00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:52,680
Speaker 1: force particles. That's also true for their antimatter versions, So

293
00:15:52,720 --> 00:15:55,760
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. It actually depends on the force particle.

294
00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 1: So for example, the W boson that actually carries electric charge,

295
00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 1: it's like there's a positive version and a negative version,

296
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,800
Speaker 1: and one is the anti particle of the other. So

297
00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:09,320
Speaker 1: the antiparticle of the W plus is the W minus. Okay. Yeah.

298
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 1: And then there's some interesting things about certain particles that

299
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:16,480
Speaker 1: are their own antiparticle, like photons, right, that's right. For photons,

300
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:19,120
Speaker 1: there is no other particle to serve as the antiparticle.

301
00:16:19,440 --> 00:16:23,120
Speaker 1: They are their own antiparticle, which is sort of weird.

302
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 1: But the way we think about in particle physics is

303
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,120
Speaker 1: like you take a particle, you apply the antiparticle operator

304
00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 1: to it, and say, what do you get? If you

305
00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,920
Speaker 1: start with an electron and you apply the antimatter particle

306
00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,400
Speaker 1: operator to it, you get a positron. You start with

307
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,000
Speaker 1: the photon and you apply this operator to it, you

308
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:41,520
Speaker 1: just get the photon back and sort of like symmetric.

309
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,160
Speaker 1: So the photon serves as its own antiparticle. Because I guess,

310
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:48,000
Speaker 1: does the photon have a charge. Photon does not have

311
00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,800
Speaker 1: an electric charge, right, the photon does not feel electromagnetic fields.

312
00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 1: If a photon is flying through space and this electric

313
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,840
Speaker 1: field there does not bend the path of the photon.

314
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,280
Speaker 1: If you don't have anything to flip, then you can't

315
00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,840
Speaker 1: have an antimatter because is that kind of generally the rule.

316
00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:04,640
Speaker 1: That's generally the rule, and that holds also for example,

317
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,520
Speaker 1: for gluons. Luonto the particle that transmit the strong nuclear force,

318
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:12,280
Speaker 1: and they do carry color, they carry this charge, and

319
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 1: so you can't have anti gluons. You can take a

320
00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,239
Speaker 1: gluon and make the anti version of it as the

321
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:21,560
Speaker 1: opposite color. All right, So that's matter and antimatter. But

322
00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 1: one thing, I guess all matters seems to have in common,

323
00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 1: whether or not it feels certain forces or not. Is

324
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,560
Speaker 1: that everybody seems to feel gravity? Right, Well, we're not

325
00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:33,520
Speaker 1: exactly sure about what happens with antimatter and gravity, but

326
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,919
Speaker 1: there is something we think that isn't flipped, which is

327
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,879
Speaker 1: the mass. Like an electron we think has the same

328
00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,120
Speaker 1: mass as a positron, it's not like that mass then

329
00:17:42,160 --> 00:17:45,399
Speaker 1: goes negative. That suggests they probably have a similar relationship

330
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,400
Speaker 1: to gravity as the original particle, but we just aren't sure. Well, yeah,

331
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,200
Speaker 1: I guess that's what I was trying to get at,

332
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: which is that a lot of most of these particles,

333
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,919
Speaker 1: the matter particles, have mass, right, that's one thing we

334
00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 1: know about them, and almost in a way, that's kind

335
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,480
Speaker 1: of what makes the matter part Yeah, all the fermions

336
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 1: definitely do have mass. Even the new trinos have mass,

337
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,159
Speaker 1: even though they have a really tiny little bit of it,

338
00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,119
Speaker 1: and all of them get mass, we think from the

339
00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,320
Speaker 1: same process, which is interacting with the Higgs boson, And

340
00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 1: to interact with the Higgs boson you have to have

341
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 1: an antimatter particle. Also, the Higgs boson requires particles to

342
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: interact like in pairs. It couldn't give the electron mass

343
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:24,919
Speaker 1: if the positron didn't exist, for example, right, All right,

344
00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:27,320
Speaker 1: well then, I guess you know, we know that all

345
00:18:27,359 --> 00:18:31,400
Speaker 1: of these matter particles feel gravity, right because we feel gravity,

346
00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,520
Speaker 1: and all of the things on Earth feel gravity. And

347
00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:36,840
Speaker 1: we know that the stars and the planets out there,

348
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:40,119
Speaker 1: and the galaxies and the galaxy clusters all feel gravity

349
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,080
Speaker 1: and they're mostly made out of matter stuff. And so

350
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: the question that is, does antimatter also feel gravity or

351
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:51,440
Speaker 1: does it feel something else, maybe the opposite of gravity.

352
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:55,760
Speaker 1: And so let's get into that weighty question. But first

353
00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:10,960
Speaker 1: let's take a quick break. All right, we're anti talking

354
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:14,960
Speaker 1: about not feeling anti gravity or is this a pro

355
00:19:15,080 --> 00:19:18,159
Speaker 1: gravity podcast? I'm definitely pro gravity. I don't want it

356
00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: to pick up and move somewhere else, like I'd like

357
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:21,960
Speaker 1: for it to stay pretty much where it is. I'm

358
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,640
Speaker 1: relying on it every day. Oh really, I guess I'm

359
00:19:24,680 --> 00:19:27,520
Speaker 1: more morally flexible when it comes to gravity. I mean,

360
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,359
Speaker 1: if I could, like, you know, ignore it for a

361
00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,400
Speaker 1: little bit, that'd be pretty cool to fly around, wouldn't

362
00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: that be great? It would be nice to be able

363
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:36,920
Speaker 1: to manipulate gravity, right If we had ways to create

364
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,400
Speaker 1: like anti gravity somehow, it'd be easier to move your

365
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,920
Speaker 1: bed across the room, or to ship stuff across the world,

366
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,240
Speaker 1: or to launch stuff into outer space. That would be

367
00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,600
Speaker 1: pretty awesome. We forget other stuff. How about ourselves, we

368
00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 1: could all be flying around. Finally, you get that flying

369
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:58,400
Speaker 1: car exactly right. It could be an anti car. Well,

370
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:00,560
Speaker 1: that's one of the exciting things about all of these

371
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 1: open questions is that once you understand the way the

372
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 1: universe works, you might discover something really surprising that's could

373
00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: give you a handle for creating all sorts of new

374
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: crazy technologies. Yeah. I mean, we've been waiting for these

375
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,639
Speaker 1: anti gravity flying cars for for years. We're still waiting, Daniel,

376
00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 1: what's the hold? Well, you know, antime matter is not

377
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: easy to study. It's sort of all around us in

378
00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,119
Speaker 1: very very tiny amounts. It's made when cosmic rays hit

379
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:29,920
Speaker 1: the atmosphere. Part of the shower of particles that comes

380
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,199
Speaker 1: down to the surface is antimatter. There's like muans and

381
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 1: anti muans as well, but it doesn't last very long

382
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,159
Speaker 1: because it smashes into stuff and annihilates, and it just

383
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:41,879
Speaker 1: doesn't seem to be very much of it in the universe,

384
00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 1: which is one of the big mysteries. Right. We talked

385
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 1: a lot about how matter and antimatter are symmetric. It's

386
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 1: all the same, just with the flipped number. You might

387
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 1: wonder like, well, why isn't there more antimatter in the universe.

388
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: Why is the universe matter and not anti matter? What's

389
00:20:56,359 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: the difference in the end. Yeah, we have a whole

390
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:00,720
Speaker 1: episode on that, and I think we also have a

391
00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,639
Speaker 1: whole episode on the annihilation of matter and antimatter. Right.

392
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 1: When a matter particle like an electron hits it's antimatter

393
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 1: version a positron, they like disappear and turn into pure energy, right, Yeah,

394
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,720
Speaker 1: they can turn into a photon, they can turn into

395
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:16,439
Speaker 1: a z boson, And you're right, they do disappear, right.

396
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:19,240
Speaker 1: It's not like what comes out as a rearrangement of

397
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,679
Speaker 1: the bits inside the electron and the positron. This really

398
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,840
Speaker 1: is alchemy that we're talking about. You're transforming the energy

399
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,480
Speaker 1: from one quantum field the electron of depositron field, then

400
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:32,040
Speaker 1: into a photon field, and then into something else. That

401
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 1: photon can turn into corks or into w's or into

402
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,199
Speaker 1: something else entirely. It really is pretty awesome. This annihilation

403
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: is like a conduit for transforming matter into something else.

404
00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:46,000
Speaker 1: And it's funny that you mentioned that it's all around us, right,

405
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: I mean, well, technically it is all around us, because

406
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: if there's an electron quantum field all around this, there's

407
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,000
Speaker 1: also an anti electron quantum field all around this too. Right.

408
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: Is it a separate field or is it the same

409
00:21:56,960 --> 00:21:59,360
Speaker 1: field as the electron? Oh, good question, It is its

410
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,359
Speaker 1: own field. There's another field there for the anti electron.

411
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: We tend to comple them together sometimes in the calculations,

412
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,960
Speaker 1: although it gets complicated because there's like left handed versions

413
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,679
Speaker 1: of them and right handed versions of them, and the

414
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 1: weak force treats those differently. Dig into our episode about

415
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 1: the weak force and symmetry to understand that more in detail.

416
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,520
Speaker 1: But the short answer is, yes, we are surrounded by

417
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 1: quantum fields for antiparticles. Even if there aren't actually antiparticles

418
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: around us. Their fields are there, like parking spots are

419
00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:30,760
Speaker 1: there even if no cars are in them. Yeah, there's

420
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 1: negativity all around us these days, it seems. But as

421
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:36,760
Speaker 1: we're saying, what's interesting about antimatter is that it's like

422
00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 1: regular matter, but it has certain of its properties flipped,

423
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,800
Speaker 1: like the charge of the electromagnetic force and charge and

424
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:46,199
Speaker 1: also it's a color and things like that. And so

425
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: one thing that regular matter particles we know have is

426
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 1: something called mass, Like it's a little it's a property

427
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,879
Speaker 1: of regular matter particles, and that's the thing that gives it,

428
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,920
Speaker 1: you know, inertia, and it makes it feel gravity. Right,

429
00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 1: it's kind of a measure of how much it feels

430
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: gravity or how hard it is to push or pull. Yeah,

431
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,320
Speaker 1: mass is one of these amazing things that seems so simple.

432
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,400
Speaker 1: We think we understand it. You have an intuitive stance

433
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 1: of what mass is, but when you dig into it theoretically,

434
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 1: it turns out to be kind of complicated. As you

435
00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: say this, two different ideas of mass there. One is

436
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: inertial mass, which is like, when you push on something,

437
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: how much does it move? And that's the mass that

438
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 1: appears in Newton's equation F equals M A. Basically, it

439
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:30,359
Speaker 1: relates F how hard you're pushing on something to A

440
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 1: how fast it accelerates when you push on it. And

441
00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 1: Newton tells us that the relationship between those two quantities

442
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: is mass. That's sort of what inertial mass is. Something

443
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 1: with more inertial mass takes a larger force to get

444
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:45,560
Speaker 1: the same acceleration. Something with almost no inertial mass. You

445
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: can accelerate pretty easily with a very small force. That's

446
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:54,159
Speaker 1: conceptionally different from this other concept of mass, gravitational mass.

447
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,639
Speaker 1: That's the mass that appears, and like the gravitational force

448
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:01,119
Speaker 1: equation g mm over are squared that tells you, like

449
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: how strong gravitational forces between two objects, right, and so,

450
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,520
Speaker 1: regular particles have this property that we call mass. I

451
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 1: mean we've called it before in this podcast. Like it's

452
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 1: almost like a label or it's almost like a charge

453
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: for the force of gravity, right, Like the electric charge

454
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,119
Speaker 1: is kind of like it's a measure how much it

455
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: feels electromagnetic force. Mass is kind of like the measure

456
00:24:22,240 --> 00:24:24,919
Speaker 1: of how much it feels gravity and inertiap Right, It's

457
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: almost like it's like a little property of matter. Yeah,

458
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,680
Speaker 1: it's like a little property of matter and you shouldn't

459
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:32,880
Speaker 1: think of it. It's like how much stuff the electron has,

460
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: or how much stuff the top cork has. In our theory,

461
00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: these are all point particles. I have no volume. This

462
00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 1: is just like a property of the particle. If you're

463
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: comfortable assigning like quantum labels to things, like this thing

464
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:47,159
Speaker 1: has a positive charge, and you don't have to like

465
00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,240
Speaker 1: figure out a physical place for that charge to live.

466
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: You should try to do the same thing with the

467
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: mass of the particle. Like the particle just has this mass.

468
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: You don't have to like have room to put enough

469
00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 1: stuff into the top cork to make heavy. It just

470
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 1: sort of is that massive. There's another interesting level to

471
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,520
Speaker 1: dig into there, which is like, is this mass actually

472
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,119
Speaker 1: a property of the particle itself or is it a

473
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,639
Speaker 1: property of the interaction of that particle with fields, Because

474
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: we think that like in a universe without a Higgs field,

475
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 1: all these matter particles, the top cork, the electron, they

476
00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,480
Speaker 1: would be massless, they would fly around like photons. It's

477
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 1: only because the Higgs field is there that these particles

478
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 1: have a mass. So sort of like a cloud of

479
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: Higgs bosons surrounding every particle changing the way it moves

480
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: so that it looks like as if it had mass.

481
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:36,520
Speaker 1: So if you want to zoom out, you can just think,

482
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna put a label on these particles. You

483
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: want to zoom in, you could think about, like, well,

484
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:43,480
Speaker 1: this particle is sort of like a virtual cloud of

485
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: Higgs bosons around it that are changing it, and I'm

486
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,119
Speaker 1: just going to label the whole cloud is having this mass.

487
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: Do you think of it as a kind of a

488
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: label like you said that particles just have just like

489
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 1: electric charge, And so the question is if antimatter is

490
00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: just regular matter with some of the charges flipped, does

491
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 1: it also flip the label of mass, like does it

492
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:07,080
Speaker 1: also flip how it feels gravity or how it feels inertia? Right,

493
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,679
Speaker 1: that's the main question we're asking today. Yeah, and it

494
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 1: really comes down to this basic question about what is

495
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 1: gravity anyway? Is gravity a force the way the other

496
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,119
Speaker 1: forces are, you know, the electromagnetic force and the strong force,

497
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 1: who have all their charges flipped for antimatter. If you

498
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,639
Speaker 1: think about it that way, then gravity is just another

499
00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: force and the charge for it is mass, as you say,

500
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 1: And then it would make sense. It would be like

501
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:33,679
Speaker 1: sementric It would follow the pattern if also mass was

502
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 1: flipped for antimatter. Or is gravity not a force? If

503
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 1: gravity is something else? And we've been thinking about it

504
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: as a force because we just don't see the curvature

505
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,200
Speaker 1: of space and time, and so we've created this fictitious

506
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: force to explain the effect of the bending of space

507
00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: time on the motion of particles and If that's the case,

508
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: it would make sense for space time to treat everything

509
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:58,440
Speaker 1: inside of it the same way. Antimatter and matter particles

510
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: are both just little bundles of energy and his energy

511
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: that bends that space, and so then it would make

512
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: sense for matter and antimatter to all have the same

513
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 1: relationship with gravity instead of the opposite relationship. So this

514
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: question about whether antimatter feels gravity or anti gravity is

515
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,400
Speaker 1: also kind of a question about like what is gravity anyway?

516
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 1: But I guess the main picture of trying to pain

517
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: is that you know, like if an electron has a

518
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: negative charge, the negative electric charge, and it weighs, you know,

519
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: point zero zero zero zero zero something kilograms, doesn't anti

520
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: electron not just have positive electric charge, but does it

521
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: also maybe way negative through a point zero zeros there

522
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 1: zero something kilograms? And what would that mean for the

523
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 1: anti electron? Yeah, that would be super fascinating, right, And

524
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:47,359
Speaker 1: because we have two different concepts of mass, we have

525
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: to think about them sort of individually. Like if a

526
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:54,879
Speaker 1: positron had negative inertial mass, what would that mean? It

527
00:27:54,920 --> 00:27:57,639
Speaker 1: would mean that if you push on it in one direction,

528
00:27:58,119 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: it would accelerate the other direction, right, Remember force equals

529
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,800
Speaker 1: mass times acceleration. These are vectors, So if mass is negative,

530
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,320
Speaker 1: that means that acceleration of force are pointing in different directions.

531
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 1: So you like give it a shove to the left

532
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: and it moves to the right. That's what having negative

533
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:20,480
Speaker 1: inertial mass would mean. That's like really counterintuitive. Negative gravitational

534
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 1: mass would be different. It would allow for gravitational repulsion.

535
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: Gravity attracts things that both have positive mass. But if

536
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: two particles, one with positive gravitational mass and one with

537
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: negative gravitational mass meat, they might repel each other, which

538
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: would be really interesting because that's not something we've ever seen.

539
00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: Gravitational repulsion. Yeah, super fascinating. And so let's maybe talk

540
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 1: more about each of these scenarios one at a time.

541
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: And so, first of all, let's say that antimatter doesn't

542
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 1: just flip the charges electrical charges of the forces in

543
00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: regular matter particles, but let's say it also flips its

544
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: inertial mass, so it has anti inertia. I guess is

545
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: the idea, And like you said, it's kind of kind

546
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: of intuitive where you try to push something but it

547
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 1: actually moves towards you. That would be weird, right, That

548
00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 1: would be very weird instead of counter through everything we've

549
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: understood and everything we've experienced in the universe, that would

550
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:16,479
Speaker 1: be a very strange experience for us to shove somebody

551
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: and then have them slam into you. But I guess

552
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: maybe it does make sense if you just think about

553
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,240
Speaker 1: it as it being antimatter, and where you think you're

554
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: pushing it, you're actually pulling it because it feels you're

555
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: pushing force the opposite way, So it's almost like you're

556
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: just pulling on something, right, Like an electron attracts a

557
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 1: positively charged particle, right, so it doesn't push it when

558
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 1: it gets near it, it actually pulls it. So couldn't

559
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: that just be the same for anti mass? It could be,

560
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: although it's a bit more general than that. We're talking about.

561
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,080
Speaker 1: Any force applied to a positron would then move it

562
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 1: in the opposite direction of that force, whether it's a

563
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:57,000
Speaker 1: gravitational force or electromagnetic force, or the weak force, which

564
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 1: positrons also feel. It's a little bit deeper than just

565
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: saying electromagnetism can attract and repel, so what's the big deal.

566
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,080
Speaker 1: Now it's applied to every force on this positron, it

567
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: would be pretty strange. Yeah, but I mean if you

568
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,600
Speaker 1: think about it, like an electron repels another electron, right,

569
00:30:13,640 --> 00:30:16,040
Speaker 1: because they have both have negative charge. Now, if you

570
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:20,480
Speaker 1: have an electron and a positron, they would normally attract

571
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: each other because they have opposite charges. But then if

572
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,280
Speaker 1: it has negative inertial mass, then it actually maybe flips

573
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 1: that force and it does repel. Yeah. I think what

574
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,480
Speaker 1: happens there is even weirder because the positron is repelled

575
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: from the electron, but the electron is still attracted to

576
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: the positron, right, It's still attracted to that positive charge,

577
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,080
Speaker 1: and so they sort of like chase each other. Like

578
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 1: the positron gets pushed away from the electron, but the

579
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 1: electron gets pulled along with the positron, So you get

580
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: this sort of like weird runaway effect. Yeah. I guess

581
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: when that is kind of a way to prove that

582
00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 1: antimatter doesn't have anti inertial mass is that, you know,

583
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: if you have an electron, it gets attracted to an

584
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,920
Speaker 1: anti electron, which means that it doesn't have anti inertia. Yeah,

585
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: anti inertia would be really weird. Negative inertial mass particles

586
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: would behave very strangely, and this is something we would

587
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 1: have seen because we do see positrons in the world.

588
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,760
Speaker 1: We see them in cosmic rays, we can bend them

589
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: with magnets. We don't see them doing this sort of

590
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,239
Speaker 1: weird behavior of being pushed in the opposite direction of

591
00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 1: the force. So negative inertial mass is not something anybody

592
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: really considers seriously. When it comes to antimatter. It would

593
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,720
Speaker 1: be really bizarre. We haven't seen it, but I wonder

594
00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: if it's possible, Like could you have maybe a third

595
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:38,240
Speaker 1: version of an electron, not just a positron, with something

596
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 1: that has its opposite charge, but also has negative inertia,

597
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: which would act just like another electron to an electron,

598
00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: Like you would think it was an electron, but really

599
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: it's an antimatter electron with a flip inertial mass. Yeah,

600
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:59,480
Speaker 1: negative mass electron. It's certainly possible that there are other

601
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: reflect actions of the particles that we're not aware of.

602
00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:05,080
Speaker 1: Our we're not limited to just matter and antimatter or

603
00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: heavier versions. You know, there are theories about like supersymmetric

604
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: versions of each of these particles, and so it's totally

605
00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 1: possible to come up with another idea like a particle

606
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: that it's just like the electron, but with negative inertial mass,

607
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,280
Speaker 1: and say maybe it could exist in the universe. Then

608
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: you have to answer questions like, well, why was made

609
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 1: in the Big Bang? Where are these? If they do exist,

610
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 1: why haven't we seen them? And if you haven't seen them,

611
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: they have to come up with an explanation for why

612
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: they don't seem to appear in our universe. But it

613
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that it couldn't possibly exist in the universe.

614
00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: But I guess you're saying that the antimatter that we

615
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 1: have seen so far, like the anti electrons that we've seen,

616
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: seem to have regular inertial mass. Yeah, and this is

617
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: not so challenging to observe because we can apply pretty

618
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 1: powerful forces like electromagnetic forces to antimatter particles, which are

619
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: rare but not impossible to make into manipulated and we

620
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,920
Speaker 1: can see their behavior. So, for example, the discovery of

621
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,760
Speaker 1: antimatter was seeing a positron moved through a magnetic field

622
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 1: and bending in a way that an electron doesn't. So

623
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 1: we're pretty sure that antimatter has inertial mass the same

624
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: way that normal matter does. All right, Well, now let's

625
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:15,480
Speaker 1: tackle this idea of having anti gravitational mass. Now, is

626
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,200
Speaker 1: there such a thing as gravitational mass? I thought gravity

627
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 1: wasn't really a force, It was really kind of a

628
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: bending of space. This idea has some interesting history. Newton

629
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: considered these things separate. He said, things have inertial mass

630
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 1: and they have gravitational mass. These are different ideas. If

631
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 1: you're on an empty space where there's no gravity, and

632
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: objects still had inertia, right, and the force of gravity,

633
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: the mass that appears in there didn't necessarily have to

634
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: be the same as the mass in F equals m A.

635
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:43,040
Speaker 1: People measured it, and they always found these two things

636
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: to be the same. The mass that appears in those

637
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: equations were the same, and so people thought, well, that's weird,

638
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: what a crazy coincidence of these things really are separate

639
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 1: concepts and yet always managed to be exactly the same.

640
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 1: So that was sort of an unexplained mystery for a

641
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 1: long time. Einstein, when he developed his theory of relativity,

642
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:01,840
Speaker 1: he said, well, let's just assume that these things are

643
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 1: the same. He baked that in to his theory of relativity.

644
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: That's not a proof that they are, that's just an

645
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 1: assumption of the foundation of general relativity. He said that

646
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 1: gravity and inertia are basically the same thing. Okay, and

647
00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:18,160
Speaker 1: so then what does that mean for having negative gravitational

648
00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 1: mass or anti gravitational mass. Well, it means that general

649
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: relativity makes a very strong prediction that anything with energy

650
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,640
Speaker 1: bends space the same way. And so we think that

651
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,640
Speaker 1: antimatter probably feels gravity the same way that matter does.

652
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: So Einstein and general relativity say antimatterer should feel gravity,

653
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 1: it shouldn't feel anti gravity, and that's a strong prediction

654
00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: from general relativity. Well, that's a strong you're saying assumption

655
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: about general relativity, right, But it is it possible for

656
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 1: something to have negative gravitational mass, so that if I

657
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 1: throw it at a black hole, it's actually going to

658
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: run away from the black hole and not towards the

659
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: black hole. I mean, it's possible in the sense that

660
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 1: like anything is possible in the universe, and we don't

661
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: know if general relativity accurately describes everything in the universe,

662
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,960
Speaker 1: and specifically, we don't know how to apply general relativity

663
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:10,080
Speaker 1: to particles. So it's possible that antimatter breaks general relativity

664
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: and that quantum gravity allows for other weird forces on

665
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,760
Speaker 1: antimatter particles like anti gravity. But if you just say

666
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 1: we believe in general relativity, then it's not possible for

667
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 1: antimatter to have anti gravity. I see, So if something

668
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: could have negative gravitational mass, it would mean Einstein was wrong,

669
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:33,760
Speaker 1: or that general grotivity needs to be maybe expanded. Doesn't

670
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:36,040
Speaker 1: necessarily mean it's wrong, or would you just need to

671
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,760
Speaker 1: like add something to Einstein's theory. Well, that's an interesting

672
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: philosophical question. I mean, we're pretty sure that Einstein is wrong,

673
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,920
Speaker 1: not in the sense that any of his predictions have

674
00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: been proven wrong, but we don't know how to extend

675
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,520
Speaker 1: his theory to quantum particles. It definitely needs some sort

676
00:35:50,560 --> 00:35:53,040
Speaker 1: of adaptation, and that might mean that it needs to

677
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: be like tossed out and completely replaced with the theory

678
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,319
Speaker 1: of quantum gravity. That's a completely different picture of how

679
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 1: space gets bent using like quantum gravitons. Or it might

680
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: be that we take Einstein's theory and we quantize it

681
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:08,280
Speaker 1: that we like say, space itself is made of quantum

682
00:36:08,280 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 1: bits that are woven together, and general relativity emerges from that.

683
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: We really don't know whether we need to build on

684
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,840
Speaker 1: top of Einstein's theory or whether we need to like

685
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: re examine the very foundations of it. But we do

686
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: know that can't work in the quantum realm, so it

687
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 1: needs some sort of update. It might be that we

688
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: discovered failing only when we see inside black holes, or

689
00:36:26,600 --> 00:36:29,400
Speaker 1: it might be that we discovered failing when we examine

690
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: the gravitational properties of antimatter. Well, I guess I'm not

691
00:36:32,760 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: quite sure what you're saying. Are you saying that? Okay?

692
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: So eince science theory assumes that gravitational mass and inertial

693
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,080
Speaker 1: mass are the same, which means that you can't have

694
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 1: negative rotational mass anti gravitational mass, or that you still

695
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: could or like, if you have negative inertial math anti

696
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,360
Speaker 1: inertial mass, then that would also mean you have anti

697
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 1: gravity irrotational mass. Einstein's theory says you can't have negative

698
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 1: gravitational mass, that that just can't happen because of the

699
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 1: equip into principle. But we don't know that that's true, right,

700
00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: We don't know what the universe actually does. So if

701
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: we discover antimatter with negative gravitational mass, that means general

702
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:13,160
Speaker 1: relativity is wrong in some important way. But maybe wouldn't

703
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: that just mean that it has negative inertial mass. Like,

704
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: if something has a negative inertial in them mass, then

705
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:23,239
Speaker 1: in in Einstein's formulation, they would also have negative gravitational mass. Yeah,

706
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:25,480
Speaker 1: that's a really cool thought. You're right that general relativity

707
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 1: just requires that they have the same inertial and gravitational mass,

708
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: which I suppose would allow for them to both be negative.

709
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:36,840
Speaker 1: But again, we haven't seen particles with negative inertial mass.

710
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,359
Speaker 1: So the antimatter we know and we are familiar with

711
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,000
Speaker 1: doesn't have negative inertial mass, so then general relativity would

712
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,080
Speaker 1: predict that it also has positive gravitational mass M. So

713
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:49,879
Speaker 1: it's then it is possible to have a particle out

714
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 1: there that if you throw at a black hole, it's

715
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,719
Speaker 1: going to run away from the black hole. But if

716
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:57,239
Speaker 1: it has both negative and gravitational mass, it would have

717
00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,479
Speaker 1: the opposite force on it, and then that worse would

718
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: push it in the opposite direction, and two opposites resulted

719
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: in going the same way. WHOA, So it would still

720
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: go towards the black hole. It would still go towards

721
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 1: the black hole, Yes, because they would cancel each other out. Yeah, exactly.

722
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: Black hole's force would technically be away from it, and

723
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 1: that would result in a particle moving towards it. So

724
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 1: double bonkers unless um, somehow Einstein's theory is wrong and

725
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 1: they're sort of not the same thing, right exactly, the

726
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,000
Speaker 1: possibility that Einstein is wrong and that antimatter particles have

727
00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 1: positive inertial mass and negative gravitational mass. All right, well,

728
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,160
Speaker 1: it seems like, um, it is possible maybe to have

729
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: anti gravity from being an antimatter particle, to have an

730
00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: anti inertial or anti gravitational mass seems possible. But I

731
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 1: guess then the question is does it actually happen? What

732
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 1: are some experiments we've done to try to find the

733
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:55,840
Speaker 1: answer to this question. So let's get into that, But

734
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 1: first let's take another quick break. All right, we are

735
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,520
Speaker 1: feeling a lot of anti emotions here talking about antimatter,

736
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: anti gravity, anti mass, anti everything. It's a very contrary episode.

737
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,680
Speaker 1: We're going up, we're going down. We're going anti up

738
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,880
Speaker 1: and anti down all at the same time. Can you

739
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,400
Speaker 1: go anti anti? Those would be your double negative mass particles, right,

740
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:36,120
Speaker 1: be anti anti attracted to a black hole? What would

741
00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: you call the antimatter version of your parents, sister, your

742
00:39:39,680 --> 00:39:44,000
Speaker 1: anti anti These are tough questions we're asking today, assuming

743
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,879
Speaker 1: people are still listening or the left in an anti huff.

744
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: All right, we're talking about whether or not antimatter feels

745
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: anti gravity, which is kind of turned out to be

746
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:57,160
Speaker 1: a pretty complicated question because, first of all, you have

747
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:00,480
Speaker 1: to think about whether antimatter has anti inertia mass or

748
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: anti gravitational mass, and whether or not if they're the

749
00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: same thing according to Einstein, or maybe they're not. I

750
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I feel like from all

751
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 1: this theoretical discussion, it seems like you're saying that it's

752
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,359
Speaker 1: not possible to have anti gravity. I think it's very

753
00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,880
Speaker 1: unlikely that antimatter has anti gravity just because general relativity

754
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,479
Speaker 1: is so successful. The YadA YadA YadA, dot dot dot.

755
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 1: On the other hand, why do we do experiments. We

756
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,840
Speaker 1: don't do experiments just to like yawn and check the

757
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:31,560
Speaker 1: boxes off of theoretical predictions. We do experiments because we

758
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: want to explore the universe. We want to find crazy,

759
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 1: shocking things that we can't explain that let us pull

760
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: the rug out of everything we thought we knew and

761
00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 1: build up new ideas about the universe. So this is

762
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520
Speaker 1: definitely something we should check. We should go and see

763
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,360
Speaker 1: whether antimatter follows our expectations or anti follows them. I

764
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,280
Speaker 1: think I see what you're saying. You're saying you're anti

765
00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 1: anti gravity, but you're pro the government giving you more

766
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 1: money to run experiments. Is that kind of what I'm

767
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 1: sensing here. I it's a little um contradictory position here.

768
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 1: I think it's just exciting to go out and ask

769
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,319
Speaker 1: basic questions, like, hey, does antimatter of f all up

770
00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: or down? And it's incredible to me that almost a

771
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:14,439
Speaker 1: hundred years after we've discovered anti matter, we still don't

772
00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: really know the answer to that. Like, experimentally, it turned

773
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:22,359
Speaker 1: out to be surprisingly tricky to do experiments with antimatter, right,

774
00:41:22,440 --> 00:41:25,560
Speaker 1: And specifically, you're talking about measuring I guess, the gravity

775
00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 1: of a particle, right, I mean, you can measure the

776
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: gravity of a planet, of a person, of a banana,

777
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:32,000
Speaker 1: but it's hard to kind of talk about the gravity

778
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: of tiny little particles because they feel very little gravity.

779
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,200
Speaker 1: It's hard to even measure the gravity of a banana.

780
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:40,480
Speaker 1: Like you can measure the weight of a banana, you

781
00:41:40,560 --> 00:41:42,440
Speaker 1: put it on a scale, but there you're measuring the

782
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,120
Speaker 1: gravity of the Earth. Right. The Earth is pulling on

783
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: the banana. If you have two bananas in the room

784
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 1: next to you, it's pretty hard to measure their attraction

785
00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 1: between themselves because gravity is so weak. It's like ten

786
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,640
Speaker 1: to the thirty times as weak as electromagnetism, So it's

787
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,200
Speaker 1: something we typically ignore. Right, you have two bananas on

788
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:03,360
Speaker 1: your table, you don't expect to see them like creep

789
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: towards each other if you leave them alone. But they

790
00:42:06,000 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: would in space, Right, that's the idea. If you were

791
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: floating out there in space and you have two bananas,

792
00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: eventually they would become a bi banana. Banana na na. Yeah.

793
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:17,360
Speaker 1: But even doing that experiment in space would be hard

794
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,879
Speaker 1: because the gravity is so weak that it might get

795
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,000
Speaker 1: swamped by other stuff like the solar wind would probably

796
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: blow on those bananas, pushing on them harder than the

797
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:29,360
Speaker 1: force of gravity between the bananas. Or if the bananas

798
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,560
Speaker 1: have like a little bit of residual positive and negative charge,

799
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,839
Speaker 1: like you rubbed one on your pants accidentally and giving

800
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: it some static electricity, then those forces, even a few

801
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: electrons on the surface of each one, would be more

802
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 1: powerful than gravity. So gravity is super hard to measure

803
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 1: for small things because it's so weak, it's swamped by

804
00:42:47,440 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 1: everything else. It's like trying to listen to a whisper

805
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 1: during a really loud concert. But I guess if you

806
00:42:53,480 --> 00:42:56,240
Speaker 1: said the experiment the right way and make sure everything

807
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 1: doesn't have a charge, the two bananas would come together eventually,

808
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 1: because that is what happens out there in space, right,

809
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:05,839
Speaker 1: That's how planets get formed and asteroids and the sun. Right. Yeah,

810
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:08,200
Speaker 1: we think that's the basic process for forming all of

811
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 1: the structure in the universe. And we've done some really

812
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:16,000
Speaker 1: pretty awesome virtuoso experiments measuring the gravity of like little things,

813
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:19,120
Speaker 1: things about the size of a centimeter and involves isolating

814
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 1: them from everything else and seeing very very small motion,

815
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 1: which people observe by like attaching a mirror to the

816
00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: object and shining a laser on the mirror and seeing

817
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 1: the laser spot like move a tiny little bit so

818
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: that you see that the object has moved. These are

819
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,400
Speaker 1: really super precise experiments, very very difficult to do, but

820
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: still there. With macroscopic objects, we're talking about like things

821
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:42,360
Speaker 1: the size of a millimeter or centimeter, not individual particles,

822
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: so we can measure the mass of tiny, regular matter

823
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: of things. But I guess it's hard to do it

824
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,360
Speaker 1: with antimatter, right, because that's really the question we're asking

825
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: today is like, if you have something made out of

826
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:56,919
Speaker 1: or a whole bunch of antimatter in one spot, would

827
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 1: it feel anti gravity? That's the experiment. That's also hard

828
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: to do it because it's hard to put together a

829
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: lot of antimatter. It is. We can make antimatter at CERN,

830
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,479
Speaker 1: for example, we smash matter into targets and the whole

831
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 1: spray of stuff comes out, including some antimatter, and we

832
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,080
Speaker 1: can filter it out and do experiments with it, and

833
00:44:13,120 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 1: we do that kind of thing. But we make like

834
00:44:15,120 --> 00:44:18,600
Speaker 1: pico grams of antimatter every year it's CERN. So you

835
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: want to make like a bananas amount of antimatter, it

836
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: would cost zillions of dollars and take years and years

837
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: and years. So instead of making really big objects out

838
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:30,480
Speaker 1: of antimatter, we try to do really precision experiments with

839
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: much smaller amounts of antimatter. Also, would be super dangerous

840
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: to come to make like a even a piece size

841
00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: or raisin size amount of antimatter, because then if it

842
00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:44,160
Speaker 1: touches regular matter, it's it's going to destroy the Earth basically, right,

843
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,360
Speaker 1: It's one of the most efficient ways to release the

844
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:49,840
Speaker 1: energy inside matter, which is a huge amount, right equals

845
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: mc squared. C is a really big number. The speed

846
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: of light C squared is a really big number. Is squared.

847
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 1: So as you say, like a raisin's worth of antimatter

848
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:02,320
Speaker 1: combined with the reason but have as much energy is

849
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: like a nuclear detonation. So yes, if you are making

850
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: antimatter in your kitchen, be very careful. Yeah, we're very

851
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: anti that kitchen. A recipe there, But I think what

852
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,399
Speaker 1: you're saying is that you can make antimatter in your

853
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: colliders and certain, but you haven't made enough to really

854
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:22,840
Speaker 1: do gravitational experiments to see whether antimatter feels anti gravity.

855
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 1: We actually have done a few experiments with antimatter that

856
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 1: do ask this question about the effects of gravity on

857
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: these particles, but they're very, very difficult to do and

858
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,279
Speaker 1: not as sensitive as we'd like yet. What I mean,

859
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,800
Speaker 1: so you did the experiments but didn't reach a conclusion

860
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:38,320
Speaker 1: or what couldn't get the data. So they've done the experiments.

861
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,720
Speaker 1: They take anti protons and they combine them with anti

862
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,239
Speaker 1: electrons to make anti hydrogen. And the reason they do

863
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: that is you need neutral antimatter. You don't want any

864
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 1: electric or magnetic fields affecting your antimatter. You want to

865
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 1: measure only the gravitational force on these objects. So they

866
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: make neutral anti hydrogen, which is super awesome anyway, because

867
00:45:59,080 --> 00:46:01,840
Speaker 1: then they can do things like study the spectral properties

868
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 1: of it and see if anti hydrogen behaves the same

869
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 1: way as hydrogen, which this whole other really fascinating field

870
00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: of science to try to figure out what is the

871
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,560
Speaker 1: difference between matter and antimatter. But because they have a

872
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,239
Speaker 1: collection of these anti hydrogen atoms, they can also see

873
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: like what happens when they float there, Like do they

874
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:21,520
Speaker 1: drift down or do they drift up? Well, I guess,

875
00:46:21,560 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: first of all, how do you hold a bunch of

876
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:27,280
Speaker 1: anti hydrogen? So you create this I guess by bringing

877
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:30,160
Speaker 1: together anti electrons and anti protons, and then they make

878
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: answer hydrogen and then you get a little cloud of

879
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 1: anti hygen. What do you do with that? Do you

880
00:46:34,120 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 1: keep it inside of a bottle? It's really challenging to contain.

881
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: You're absolutely right. What we do is we keep it

882
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:41,360
Speaker 1: in a magnetic bottle. It doesn't work very well. A

883
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,760
Speaker 1: magnetic bottle is good at holding charged particles. Because magnetic

884
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,000
Speaker 1: fields bend the path of charged particles. So, for example,

885
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 1: the beams and the large hadron collider are kept moving

886
00:46:50,320 --> 00:46:53,360
Speaker 1: in a circle because of very powerful magnets or plasma,

887
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,880
Speaker 1: and a fusion reactor is kept in a magnetic bottle

888
00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: to keep it from escaping because it's filled with charge particles.

889
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:01,600
Speaker 1: It doesn't work very well all on neutral particles, but

890
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 1: even anti hydrogen has a magnetic moment because the spins

891
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,960
Speaker 1: the particles, they do feel magnetic fields a little bit,

892
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: so we can keep them in like a very very

893
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 1: bad magnetic bottle, and it works best if those anti

894
00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:17,719
Speaker 1: hydrogen atoms are slow, if they're cold, they're not like

895
00:47:17,760 --> 00:47:21,240
Speaker 1: flying around with high velocity, then this very weak bottle

896
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,720
Speaker 1: tends to contain them. But that's a challenge because making

897
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,160
Speaker 1: anti hydrogen that's moving slowly is hard because you have

898
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,359
Speaker 1: to combine the positrons and the anti protons which come

899
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: in in beams, so you have to have like slow beams,

900
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 1: like gases of these things like merge together. The whole

901
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,000
Speaker 1: thing is experimentally very tricky. Yeah, it sounds pretty hard,

902
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: but they have done this kind of and what did

903
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,120
Speaker 1: they find. Did they find that it falls at the

904
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: bottom of this bad bottle, or does it flow it

905
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: up to the top of the bad bottle. So there's

906
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: a very cool experiment at CERN. It's called the Alpha experiment,

907
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: which stands for anti hydrogen laser physics apparatus. Is a

908
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:02,239
Speaker 1: terrible acronym or really awesome experiment. And they do not

909
00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:04,839
Speaker 1: see anti matter falling upwards very fast. I mean, some

910
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:07,319
Speaker 1: of these hydrogen atoms do float up and some of

911
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: them do float down. And because the difficulty of measuring gravity,

912
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: it's not a very precise measurement. What they can do

913
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: is they can say that anti hydrogen doesn't have a

914
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,320
Speaker 1: negative gravitational mass of sixty five times the inertial mass.

915
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 1: So if anti hydrogen had a negative gravitational mass of

916
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: like a hundred or a million times the inertial mass,

917
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,720
Speaker 1: they would have seen it because they would have flown

918
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,920
Speaker 1: upwards really fast. They don't see them flying upwards really fast,

919
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,240
Speaker 1: so they can say if it does have a negative

920
00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:41,600
Speaker 1: gravitational mass, it's not that big. So it's like very imprecise.

921
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,160
Speaker 1: So far, if they had a lot more anti hydrogen

922
00:48:44,280 --> 00:48:47,040
Speaker 1: or more time, they can make more precise measurements. They

923
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 1: could sort of narrow this down statistically, all they can

924
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: do right now is like rule out a really crazy

925
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,000
Speaker 1: result where anti hydrogen has a negative gravitational mass that's

926
00:48:57,080 --> 00:49:01,120
Speaker 1: also much bigger in magnitude in the inertial mass. But

927
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 1: could it have a varying different gravitational mass in magnitude

928
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: than than it's inertial mass. I mean, we're exploring the

929
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: bonkers universe theory out here, so maybe right. And this

930
00:49:11,440 --> 00:49:13,279
Speaker 1: is also sort of like just the way that they

931
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 1: can express their results. Even if the theoretical options are well,

932
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,040
Speaker 1: it either has a positive gravitational mass or negative one

933
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: times the inertial mass. We can't tell the difference between

934
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 1: those two. Experimentally, all we can do is tell the

935
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:29,799
Speaker 1: difference between negative sixty five and positive one. So we

936
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: can rule out negative sixty five, we can't yet rule

937
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 1: out negative one. M I see. So they done the

938
00:49:35,320 --> 00:49:38,640
Speaker 1: experiment and they don't have a clear result, but it's

939
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,759
Speaker 1: not an anti result either. It's not. And they're just

940
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:43,759
Speaker 1: getting started, right, and so they're going to make more

941
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: anti hydrogen and they're gonna do more precise experiments. There

942
00:49:46,719 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 1: are other experiments coming online at CERN to measure this

943
00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 1: in other ways and so in the next few years

944
00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: we hope to get more precise measurements of the gravitational

945
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: properties of antimatter. All right, Besides cern are there other

946
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,279
Speaker 1: experiment is that we've done or are going to do

947
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: to measure the gravity of antimatter. These kind of particle

948
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,000
Speaker 1: physics experiments are really the most direct way to probe this.

949
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: You can also do other sort of thought experiments to

950
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:14,719
Speaker 1: think about the effects of antimatter. For example, like the

951
00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:18,360
Speaker 1: protons that are inside me and you, we talked earlier

952
00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,920
Speaker 1: about how they have quarks inside them, Well, they also

953
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 1: have antimatter inside them. Like the gluons that are inside

954
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: the protons, they sometimes turn into cork anti cork pairs

955
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 1: like very briefly before going back to being a gluon

956
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: the way like a photon will turn into a particle

957
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 1: antiparticle pair briefly and go back to being a photon.

958
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: So that means that like you and I are partially

959
00:50:40,360 --> 00:50:44,680
Speaker 1: made of anti matter. If antimatter had anti gravity in

960
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,799
Speaker 1: some weird way, then we would see the effect of

961
00:50:47,840 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: that on protons. And we don't see any weird behavior

962
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: of protons. They don't seem to have any sort of

963
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:56,319
Speaker 1: like deviation between their inertial and gravitational mass. So that's

964
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:00,920
Speaker 1: a strong hint that antimatter probably has normal. Yeah, we

965
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: all have a little bit of negativity inside of us,

966
00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 1: a little bit of a contrarian inside of us. But

967
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: I think you're saying that we all are made a

968
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:10,480
Speaker 1: little bit of antimatter and it doesn't seem to be

969
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,759
Speaker 1: affecting the regular matter. But at the same time, it's

970
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 1: a very tiny amount, isn't Isn't it like super duper

971
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: negligible the amount of antimatter inside of us? Yeah, so

972
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: it would be pretty negligible. All right. Well, maybe to

973
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: wrap up here, I think we've sort of maybe a

974
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:27,719
Speaker 1: little bit debunked the idea of anti gravity for antimatter particles.

975
00:51:27,800 --> 00:51:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean, theoretically, it seems like it's not really possible,

976
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,800
Speaker 1: or I mean it's possible, but we would mean we

977
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: would see a very different universe. And also these experiments

978
00:51:36,520 --> 00:51:39,160
Speaker 1: that you describe kind of rule it out as well.

979
00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:44,359
Speaker 1: So if that's true, then if you can't have anti gravity,

980
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,320
Speaker 1: what does that mean about our theories of the universe.

981
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,239
Speaker 1: I think I agree mostly with what you say, but

982
00:51:49,280 --> 00:51:51,440
Speaker 1: I always hold out a little bit of hope for

983
00:51:51,680 --> 00:51:54,160
Speaker 1: the crazy result. You know, even if the theory very

984
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: strongly says that can't happen, that just makes me more

985
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,640
Speaker 1: excited to go and discover it that way, because it

986
00:51:59,680 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 1: means undermining that whole theory and starting from scratch, and

987
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: to me, those are the most exciting moments in science.

988
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: So I think you're right that the theory very strongly

989
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 1: suggests that antimatter doesn't have anti gravity, But that still

990
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,240
Speaker 1: makes me hopeful. Wait, what makes you hopeful that maybe

991
00:52:14,239 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 1: one of these experiments will get a shocking result and

992
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,120
Speaker 1: discover antimatter fluting up in a gravitational field and give

993
00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: us a clue about the next direction we should take

994
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:26,040
Speaker 1: for gravity, for understanding whether it is a quantum field

995
00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 1: or whether space itself is quantized, and how to get

996
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:32,040
Speaker 1: to quantum gravity. All right, well, I think what you're

997
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:34,000
Speaker 1: trying to say is keep giving you money to run

998
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,800
Speaker 1: these experiments just to make sure that the universe is

999
00:52:37,840 --> 00:52:40,319
Speaker 1: not actually crazy. I'd say, we never know where the

1000
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,760
Speaker 1: next surprise, where the great big learning moment about the universe,

1001
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:45,720
Speaker 1: will come, and so it makes a lot of sense

1002
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: to go out there and do careful experiments and see

1003
00:52:47,680 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: if the universe is the way we expect or not?

1004
00:52:50,120 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: Where is to the anti way we expect? All right,

1005
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: we'll stay tuned, as I guess we keep exploring this

1006
00:52:56,200 --> 00:53:00,000
Speaker 1: idea of antimatter and what gravity actually is. I guess

1007
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: it's hard to prove that there's such a thing as

1008
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: anti gravity if we don't actually kind of know what

1009
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,560
Speaker 1: gravity is. That's a good point. We anti know gravity,

1010
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: right like, It's still kind of up for the babe

1011
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:14,319
Speaker 1: whether general relativity, which is Einstein's theory, is right or not,

1012
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,200
Speaker 1: and how it matches up with quantum mechanics. It's one

1013
00:53:18,239 --> 00:53:20,839
Speaker 1: of the deepest questions at the heart of modern physics,

1014
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: how to unify these two pillars of our understanding of

1015
00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:27,000
Speaker 1: the universe. All right, well, I guess we'll keep waiting

1016
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:30,720
Speaker 1: for news from the fringes of physics. We'll keep funding

1017
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: those experiments. You mean it's above my pay grade? All right? Well,

1018
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:36,520
Speaker 1: we hope you enjoyed that or anti enjoyed that. Thanks

1019
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: for joining us, See you next time. Thanks for listening,

1020
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is

1021
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:53,440
Speaker 1: a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcast from

1022
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 1: My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app Apple

1023
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. No.