WEBVTT - Bitcoin Miners Flock To Texas

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael, Managing editor of Crypto for Bloomberg News,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily Bloomberg I Heart podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, June. Have you ever heard the saying everything

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<v Speaker 1>is bigger in Texas? That same ethos applies to bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>mining in the lone Star state. The state of Texas

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<v Speaker 1>is flush with a new kind of prospective bitcoin miners.

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<v Speaker 1>The city of fort Worth even started a small mining

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<v Speaker 1>operation out of its city hall. Today, I talk with

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Report to Mike Smith about what makes Texas so

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<v Speaker 1>attractive to crypto enthusiasts, and you'll hear from Lee bratcha

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<v Speaker 1>head of the Texas Blockchain Council, for a look at

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<v Speaker 1>the Council's partnership with the City of fort Worth and

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<v Speaker 1>why Leye sees Texas as the perfect environment for bitcoin believers.

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<v Speaker 1>First up, Mike Smith, Mike, so much for joining us,

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<v Speaker 1>my pleasure today we're gonna talk about Texas and we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to talk about mining in Texas, specifically bitcoin mining.

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<v Speaker 1>But just before we dive into kind of the technicalities,

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<v Speaker 1>is what's happening with with Texas and these bitcoin miners.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you just explain what a bitcoin mine looks like.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you have you been to one? What was that

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<v Speaker 1>experience like, Yeah, I've been to one um out in

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<v Speaker 1>Texas actually, and it's it's quite a almost a surreal experience.

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<v Speaker 1>Most of these mining operations are located really in very

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<v Speaker 1>sort of remote places in the middle of nowhere, so

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<v Speaker 1>to speak, especially in Texas, and they're quite striking when

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<v Speaker 1>you come upon them, so to speak. But they're actually

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<v Speaker 1>quite simple in what they are. They're basically um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>warehouses or even sort of shipping containers filled with racks

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<v Speaker 1>and racks and racks of computers that are all working

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<v Speaker 1>in this together and sending the result of their work

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<v Speaker 1>up into the to this guy to uh internet connection

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<v Speaker 1>via satellite. And they use a lot of electricity. So

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<v Speaker 1>imagine just dozens and dozens and dozens of very expensive

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<v Speaker 1>computers sort of humming along solving math problems, creating bitcoin exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>So they're they're part of a much larger pool, but

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<v Speaker 1>they in turn are quite big in a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>these cases, and we're talking tens of thousands of computers

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<v Speaker 1>UH servers, bitcoin servers they call them, that are controlled

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<v Speaker 1>or owned by the same minor if you will. In

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<v Speaker 1>many cases and they buy how many bitcoins they actually get,

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<v Speaker 1>which is completely related to the number of computers they

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<v Speaker 1>have and the amount of electricity have to power them.

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<v Speaker 1>So Senator Ted Cruz, who's one of you know, Texas

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<v Speaker 1>is two senators, he's on the record as saying I

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<v Speaker 1>want Texas to be the oasis on planet Earth for

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin and crypto, which is, you know, a pretty ambitious

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<v Speaker 1>statements given the competition from other countries. I gotta say,

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes to bit cool in and what comes

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<v Speaker 1>to crypto more generally, I am incredibly bulsh. So talk

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<v Speaker 1>talk a little bit more about what Texas is specifically

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<v Speaker 1>doing to attract bitcoin minus to the States. Well, Texas

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<v Speaker 1>is sort of the ideal place for bitcoin mining because

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<v Speaker 1>there's so little regulation for just about anything, and that

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<v Speaker 1>includes the electricity market and the government that got starting

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<v Speaker 1>with the governor and spreading onto the federal level to

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<v Speaker 1>sooner Cruise, for example, they really believe in in in

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<v Speaker 1>clearing the way in terms of regulations for business to

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<v Speaker 1>do what they need to do to make money in

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<v Speaker 1>their state. So, um, that's kind of what they've been

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<v Speaker 1>trying to do with bitcoin. Uh, in the last year,

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<v Speaker 1>the state legislature passed a law and Governor Rabbit signed

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<v Speaker 1>it that basically set up this whole legal framework for

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoins to be sort of recognized as as legal assets,

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<v Speaker 1>if you will, and it made it easier for banks

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to handle That made it easier for

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<v Speaker 1>sort of just the uniform code of doing business to

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<v Speaker 1>include cryptocurrency assets, including bitcoins. Now, as a person who

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<v Speaker 1>has lived in Texas and has experienced its weather extremes

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<v Speaker 1>as well as the let's describe this charitably as the

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<v Speaker 1>somewhat fragile power grid, what is Texas also doing to

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<v Speaker 1>shore up it's energy reserves for you know, people and

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<v Speaker 1>businesses that aren't crypto minors, given the constraints that it's

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<v Speaker 1>operating with on that front, there's an issue with um

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<v Speaker 1>the amount of new electrical generation power plants coming online

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<v Speaker 1>and being able to get to the people that need

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<v Speaker 1>it as as quickly as they need it. So that's

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<v Speaker 1>sort of their big challenge trying to provide incenters for

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<v Speaker 1>people to build more power plants. Ideally, um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>plants that are sustained, you know, are renewable with solar

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<v Speaker 1>and wind. But the problem a missed there aren't enough

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<v Speaker 1>power lines to get that electricity, the long, long distances

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<v Speaker 1>back east to the major cities for example, like Houston, Dallas, etcetera,

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<v Speaker 1>and to the industrial users. In other words, the people

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<v Speaker 1>that need electricity are really far away from where it's

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<v Speaker 1>being generated. And can we talk about the weirdness of

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<v Speaker 1>the fact that, you know, Houston is close to other

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<v Speaker 1>cities and other states. There's various parts of Texas that

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<v Speaker 1>border other states in the US as well as of

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<v Speaker 1>course other countries, but the Texas power grid isn't connected

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<v Speaker 1>to any of these places. Why is that, Well, that's right,

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<v Speaker 1>it's by design because Texas created this system, uh some

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<v Speaker 1>time ago, with the idea that it would be a

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<v Speaker 1>wholly independent system, walled off from the rest of the country,

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<v Speaker 1>walled off from states that heavily regulated electricity because they

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<v Speaker 1>wanted Texas to be a sort of free market energy

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<v Speaker 1>zone in all senses of the word. So they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to connect to with you know, say how foreign

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<v Speaker 1>grid or all the way up to New York because

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<v Speaker 1>a lot most of the country is interconnected, so that

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<v Speaker 1>they can share energy and export energy so to speak,

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<v Speaker 1>when they don't need it or when they need it. Texas.

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<v Speaker 1>They wanted to make it self contained and therefore just

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<v Speaker 1>sort of a beautiful free market example of how the

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<v Speaker 1>market can provide what people need at the best price possible.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's exactly why they did it, and that of

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<v Speaker 1>course has had some challenges given as you described, when

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<v Speaker 1>in that grid basically fell over um and made the

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<v Speaker 1>provision of electricity and power for hundreds of millions of

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<v Speaker 1>people just impossible. President Joe Biden declared a major disaster

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<v Speaker 1>in Texas. It was a week of sub zero temperatures,

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<v Speaker 1>frozen oil and gas wells, and absolutely soaring electricity prices,

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<v Speaker 1>all of which left millions in the dark. Bloomberg's Rachel Adams,

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<v Speaker 1>what are the bitcoin miners going to do if there

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<v Speaker 1>are these rolling blackouts in the future, Like, how are

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<v Speaker 1>they going to handle that disruption to their business? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin miners their principal argument for not being a threat,

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<v Speaker 1>so to speak, to the electricity system is that they, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>they can turn off their computers at a moment's notice,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, within minutes, just like when you turn off

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<v Speaker 1>your computer or your laptop when you're done working for

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<v Speaker 1>the day. So they have a system in Texas where

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<v Speaker 1>if there is a sort of a looming crisis if

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<v Speaker 1>the you know, the total amount of electricity is a

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<v Speaker 1>pre approaching the maximum that they can provide, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you go past that line, you have you have to

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<v Speaker 1>start turning off people's electricity blackouts, brownouts. The bitcoin miners

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<v Speaker 1>have committed to UM, have promised to turn off their

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<v Speaker 1>computers when needed UH to essentially save electricity, and there

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<v Speaker 1>are great incentives in the in the in this free

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<v Speaker 1>market power system the Texas have for them to do that, because,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, when when there's shortages of electricity or when

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<v Speaker 1>we're reaching a peak level and there's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be enough electricity along, the price goes up a lot.

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<v Speaker 1>So when a bitcoin minor turns off their computers, they

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<v Speaker 1>get paid a lot of money to do that. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they can make as much money at turning off the

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<v Speaker 1>computer for a few hours they're starting their computers for

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<v Speaker 1>a few hours as they can you know, mining bitcoin

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<v Speaker 1>for days and days and days. So what's interesting to

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<v Speaker 1>me is this positivity around crypto sort of kind of

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<v Speaker 1>came out of nowhere. UM at the highest levels of government,

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<v Speaker 1>like you know, Governor Abbott and others have been very

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<v Speaker 1>welcoming to people like Joe Rogan and Elon Musk, who

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<v Speaker 1>are you know, very much embedded in various parts of

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<v Speaker 1>this kind of tech libertarian crypto scene. But the explicitness

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<v Speaker 1>around hey, you know, come to Texas set up your

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin minds is a newer development than that. And I'm wondering,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how much of this is attributable to lobbying,

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<v Speaker 1>Like the Texas legislature has a very interesting relationship with

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<v Speaker 1>with lobbyists of all stripes, and the Texas Blockchain Council

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<v Speaker 1>has really established itself in a relatively short amount of time,

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<v Speaker 1>is like foremost among them. As it relates to this conversation. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and um, it's interesting because the Bitcoin Council, it's almost

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<v Speaker 1>like they don't really need lobbyists. They just sort of

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<v Speaker 1>call up the governor and he invites them over to

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<v Speaker 1>the mansion to talk. They're being just extremely welcomed and

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<v Speaker 1>with remarkably little, you know, actual resources they have to

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<v Speaker 1>throw at it. Um, the same thing with with the

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<v Speaker 1>executives in the industry. You know, at the core of

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<v Speaker 1>a bitcoin mining is energy. And it's interesting if you

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<v Speaker 1>talk to a lot of the bitcoin miners in Texas,

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<v Speaker 1>are their oil people you know, they came from the

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<v Speaker 1>oil and gas business. You know, Bitcoin to them is

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<v Speaker 1>just a it's another form of the oil business. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's quite similar. Instead of instead of drilling for oil,

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<v Speaker 1>you're looking for electricity. Well, thank you. That is a

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<v Speaker 1>very interesting thing to think about the connection of that.

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<v Speaker 1>What is a very true historical fact and something that

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<v Speaker 1>feels extremely cutting edge and of the moment right now

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<v Speaker 1>of really so glad that you could join us today, Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you again, my pleasure. You can find more of

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<v Speaker 1>Mike Smith's reporting on the Bloomberg terminal, on Bloomberg dot

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<v Speaker 1>com and on Twitter at Smith Markets. We'll be right back. So,

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<v Speaker 1>now that we have a sense of where the state

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<v Speaker 1>of Texas currently finds itself as it relates to that

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<v Speaker 1>overall crypto mining universe, let's look at where proponents of

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<v Speaker 1>mining operations wants to see it heading in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>How do we continue to have Texas lead in the

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<v Speaker 1>space of bitcoin, bitcoin mining and blockchain in general. That's

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<v Speaker 1>Lee Bratcha. He heads the Texas Blockchain Council, which partnered

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<v Speaker 1>with the city of Fort Worth for the first ever

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<v Speaker 1>city run bitcoin mining operation in the US, and he

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<v Speaker 1>joins me now tell our listeners more about the tech

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<v Speaker 1>this Blockchain Council. The Texas Blockchain Council is an industry

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<v Speaker 1>association working to make Texas the jurisdiction of choice for

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<v Speaker 1>bitcoin blockchain and we have a special emphasis on bitcoin mining,

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<v Speaker 1>and so we work on the regulatory affairs side. We

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<v Speaker 1>work on researching policy and advocating and educating with elected officials,

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<v Speaker 1>and we also do your standard Chamber of Commerce type

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<v Speaker 1>stuff with our member companies help them in business development efforts.

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<v Speaker 1>So our listeners heard earlier that you know Senators had

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<v Speaker 1>Cruise and Governor Abbert and others have been very enthusiastic

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<v Speaker 1>supporters of bitcoin and bitcoin mining in the state. Can

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<v Speaker 1>you tell us more about your relationship with them, the

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of conversations that you know, and the education as

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<v Speaker 1>you say that you're doing with lawmakers on legislatos. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>we've had several conversations with both Senator Crews and Governor Abbott.

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<v Speaker 1>The crux of those conversations were around what's best for

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<v Speaker 1>Texas and what'spex for UH innovation and Texas has led

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<v Speaker 1>as an innovative state as a business friendly state for

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<v Speaker 1>decades now, and my conversations with them are around how

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<v Speaker 1>do we continue to have Texas lead in the space

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<v Speaker 1>of bitcoin, bitcoin mining and blockchain in general and specific

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity to bitcoin mining. We have conversations around job creation,

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<v Speaker 1>tax revenue, and the Arcot energy only grate. Everyone's goals

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<v Speaker 1>is to ensure that power reliability is maintained and that Texans,

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<v Speaker 1>whether they live in El Paso or Dallas or in

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<v Speaker 1>rural East Texas, they all have reliable and consistent access

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<v Speaker 1>to power. In various other countries, you know, miners have

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<v Speaker 1>been shall we say, less than committed. Right they find

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<v Speaker 1>a better off force somewhere else like Texas, for example,

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<v Speaker 1>they up sticks, they leave town because it's fundamentally a

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<v Speaker 1>very mobile friendly operation. Like are we are we talking

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<v Speaker 1>about jobs that are sees le that you think are

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<v Speaker 1>these are things are gonna be around for eighteen months

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<v Speaker 1>or folks really starting to plan longer term than that.

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<v Speaker 1>Some of the jobs are our seasonal, especially related to

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<v Speaker 1>the construction of the sites. You don't need to have

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<v Speaker 1>several hundred electricians and construction folks their year round, but

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<v Speaker 1>they do maintain a good percentage of those for maintenance

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<v Speaker 1>and for expansion, and in some of the places in

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<v Speaker 1>North America, and in fact, every place in North America

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<v Speaker 1>that has an industrial scale bitcoin mine over fifty megawatts,

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<v Speaker 1>it is very much a permanent structure. So they have

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of millions of dollars worth of infrastructure investment going in.

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<v Speaker 1>The only way a bitcoin minor shuts down operations in

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<v Speaker 1>Texas is if they go bankrupt. Now, that might not

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:50.480
<v Speaker 1>be true for say a flare Gas bitcoin minor, where

0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:53.360
<v Speaker 1>they have a forty foot shipping container with miners inside

0:13:53.360 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 1>their their mining using a generator from flare Gas. That

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:02.240
<v Speaker 1>would be more of a mobile structure structure, and and

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:04.560
<v Speaker 1>perhaps just a few million dollars of investment, but it

0:14:04.640 --> 0:14:07.600
<v Speaker 1>is more Well, it's interesting that you mentioned the gas flaring, right,

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.880
<v Speaker 1>because that's been an example of something where folks are

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 1>trying to make a sort of an environmental case for

0:14:13.360 --> 0:14:16.840
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin mining. They're like, well, otherwise this flared gas would just,

0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:19.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, it would it would be wasted as it were.

0:14:19.280 --> 0:14:22.080
<v Speaker 1>But now we're finding ways to reintegrate that into another

0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 1>part of the industry. Um that said, there are a

0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:29.200
<v Speaker 1>lot of folks who have significant concerns about generally the

0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:32.200
<v Speaker 1>fact of bitcoin mining on the environment, because even if

0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.400
<v Speaker 1>in some cases you're able to reallocate energy sources. In

0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.480
<v Speaker 1>a lot of other cases, it's just additional new energy consumption.

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.560
<v Speaker 1>How are you or you know, the folks that you

0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:47.960
<v Speaker 1>are talking to making a case for the potential of

0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 1>a more environmentally aware industry as it relates to mining,

0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>we are very conscious of the need to ensure that

0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:03.360
<v Speaker 1>we're we're environmentally sustainable. Mining is top of mind, and

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:05.200
<v Speaker 1>there's two ways that we do that. The first way

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:09.320
<v Speaker 1>is through understanding that energy usage is a way that

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.880
<v Speaker 1>society and human flourishing progresses throughout history, and so energy

0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.960
<v Speaker 1>usage is not necessarily a bad thing. It's just depending

0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:19.880
<v Speaker 1>on what you're using it on. So we would argue

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:24.080
<v Speaker 1>that securing a global monetary system and what some would

0:15:24.080 --> 0:15:27.360
<v Speaker 1>call freedom money, which is bitcoin, is a valuable use

0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:31.200
<v Speaker 1>of energy, much more valuable than say Christmas lights or

0:15:31.280 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>video games or things. All these kinds of industries use

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:39.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot more energy than things that give people joy. Potentially, Yeah,

0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:41.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, and and we we don't see anything wrong

0:15:41.920 --> 0:15:45.080
<v Speaker 1>with using energy on Christmas lights and video games. Um

0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 1>and in Texas in particular, about thirty of the grid

0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.080
<v Speaker 1>and given time is wind and solar. Depending on how

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:52.720
<v Speaker 1>hot it is or how much the sun is shining,

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:55.680
<v Speaker 1>how much the wind is blowing that particular day. And

0:15:55.760 --> 0:16:00.640
<v Speaker 1>bitcoin mining is using an outsized amount of wind and

0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 1>solar in Texas, so more than the average grid user.

0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:07.760
<v Speaker 1>And not only that, we're actually incentivizing more wind and

0:16:07.800 --> 0:16:10.800
<v Speaker 1>solar because we will go out and be an on

0:16:10.960 --> 0:16:17.400
<v Speaker 1>site power off taker for a wind farm exactly, exactly

0:16:17.480 --> 0:16:21.920
<v Speaker 1>allows them to build out more infrastructure with better economics

0:16:21.960 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 1>because they have an on site power off taker. There's

0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.320
<v Speaker 1>just not enough transmission capacity to get all of the

0:16:28.400 --> 0:16:31.880
<v Speaker 1>wind energy from West Texas to the big power off

0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:35.600
<v Speaker 1>takers and in Dallas or Houston or Austin, so a

0:16:35.640 --> 0:16:38.040
<v Speaker 1>lot of that energy gets wasted. In fact, about fifteen

0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 1>percent of the time you have negative pricing in West Texas,

0:16:41.480 --> 0:16:45.720
<v Speaker 1>which means that energy is wasted. You've mentioned a few

0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:48.640
<v Speaker 1>different parts of Texas and how they're thinking about mining.

0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Tell me more about what you are up to in

0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:55.400
<v Speaker 1>fort Worth. Yeah, fort Worth. UM. We were connected with

0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.520
<v Speaker 1>the Mayor fort Worth in the city several months ago

0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:02.040
<v Speaker 1>through mutual friends and um they had an interest in

0:17:02.120 --> 0:17:05.240
<v Speaker 1>fort Worth becoming a a tech city and a city

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:08.480
<v Speaker 1>that's innovation forward, and so one of the ways that

0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.280
<v Speaker 1>we suggested that they do that is becoming a city

0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.920
<v Speaker 1>that it's a first for bitcoin and bitcoin mining. So

0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 1>we um we decided to donate several machines the city

0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>of Fort Worth for them to to mind bitcoin. It's

0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 1>not really a substantial amount of bitcoin or a substantial

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.800
<v Speaker 1>amount of power. It's it's about the amount of power

0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.320
<v Speaker 1>that would take to run two vacuum cleaners. And the

0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.040
<v Speaker 1>amount of profit from these machines will be measured in

0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.760
<v Speaker 1>hundreds of dollars and not millions of dollars. So it

0:17:33.840 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 1>is very much a pilot study that no cost to

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:40.840
<v Speaker 1>the taxpayer because these machines were donated and the proceeds

0:17:40.880 --> 0:17:44.200
<v Speaker 1>from the bitcoin that has received will offset any of

0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.199
<v Speaker 1>the power costs and and have a little bit of

0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:48.760
<v Speaker 1>profit on top of that. Thank you, leave, I really

0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 1>appreciate you taking the time. Yeah, thanks for having me

0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:56.720
<v Speaker 1>this fun conversation On the next episode of Bloomberg Crypto,

0:17:57.400 --> 0:17:59.199
<v Speaker 1>what do you do if you want to leave your

0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:03.120
<v Speaker 1>crypto to your friends, family, or as after you die?

0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.280
<v Speaker 1>What does estate planning for stable coins and n f

0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>t s even look like. Crypto as an asset class

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.040
<v Speaker 1>is less than two decades old, that means that most

0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.920
<v Speaker 1>estate planners don't yet understand how to navigate this kind

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:21.080
<v Speaker 1>of digital wealth transper For more, I'll turn to Bloomberg

0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Reports to Jill Shah for a look at how cryptocurrency

0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:31.040
<v Speaker 1>holdings are proving thorny for estep planners. I'm Stacy Marie Ishmael,

0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:34.480
<v Speaker 1>and this is Bloomberg Crypto, a daily podcast from Bloomberg

0:18:34.520 --> 0:18:37.800
<v Speaker 1>and I Heart Radio. For more shows from I Heart Radio,

0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:41.520
<v Speaker 1>visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

0:18:41.560 --> 0:18:45.600
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts. Femail your comments, questions or suggestions

0:18:45.720 --> 0:18:48.719
<v Speaker 1>to Crypto at Bloomberg dot net. Follow us on Twitter

0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:54.639
<v Speaker 1>at Crypto. The supervising producer of this episode is Vicky Vergelina.

0:18:54.840 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>Our producer is Mohammed Farouk. Associate producer Zan Absudiki Desta

0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.760
<v Speaker 1>wonder At is our engineer. Original music by Leo Sidron.

0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:05.280
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg's head of Podcasts is Francisca Levy