Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your guide to
Speaker 1: the whitetail Woods, presented by First Light, creating proven versatile
Speaker 1: hunting apparel for the stand, saddle or blind. First Light
Speaker 1: Go Farther, Stay Longer, and now your host, Mark Kenyon.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. This week on
Speaker 2: the show, we are wrapping up our series exploring the habits, mindsets,
Speaker 2: methods and routines of the best deer hunters in the world.
Speaker 2: And today our final guest is Andy May. All right,
Speaker 2: welcome back to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to
Speaker 2: you by First Light and their Camel for Conservation initiative
Speaker 2: and their brand new, totally reinvented line of white tail
Speaker 2: gear that just launched last week. I'll give you a
Speaker 2: little bit more details on that if you didn't hear
Speaker 2: last week's episode, But before that, I do want to
Speaker 2: kind of queue up today's episode because, as I mentioned
Speaker 2: at the top, we are wrapping up our mindsets of
Speaker 2: the Whitetail Masters series. This is episode six of that
Speaker 2: mini series, I believe, and I hope you found it
Speaker 2: as interesting and valuable as I have. The goal with
Speaker 2: all this was to get a different look, to get
Speaker 2: a different perspective on these best of the best deer hunters,
Speaker 2: because here's one of the things I've noticed, one of
Speaker 2: the things I've noticed over the last ten plus years
Speaker 2: doing this podcast is that it's very easy to fall
Speaker 2: into a rut when it comes to deer hunting and
Speaker 2: just kind of doing the same old, same old thing.
Speaker 2: You find what's comfortable and you fall into that groove
Speaker 2: and you stick with it. And that's true not only
Speaker 2: in deer hunting, but also in creating content about deer
Speaker 2: hunt trying to teach people about deer hunting. There's a
Speaker 2: lot of folks doing the same old thing over and
Speaker 2: over and over and over again, and sometimes it's hard
Speaker 2: to avoid that for myself too. So I'm constantly trying
Speaker 2: to find different ways to approach this topic, different ways
Speaker 2: we can learn. And when it comes to some of
Speaker 2: these guests, you know, there are a lot of great
Speaker 2: deer hunters out there, but everybody is talking to them,
Speaker 2: right There's a thousand different podcasts and TV shows and
Speaker 2: Instagram accounts, and everyone's talking to the same people, getting
Speaker 2: the same information told and regurgitated over and over and over.
Speaker 2: So one of my main goals what I task myself
Speaker 2: as the host of this show and trying to be
Speaker 2: someone creating something valuable and respectful of your time. Is
Speaker 2: finding a new lens to look at this stuff with.
Speaker 2: And that's what I've tried to do with this series,
Speaker 2: to talk to these hunters that we've all heard from before,
Speaker 2: but to dig into a different side of their success
Speaker 2: than other people have. So we've tried to peel back
Speaker 2: the onion. We've tried to get behind the scenes inside
Speaker 2: their minds to understand what their goals are, why they
Speaker 2: think about success in a certain way, how they view failure,
Speaker 2: how they think about hard work and mental toughness and
Speaker 2: discipline and decision making, and how they execute on those things,
Speaker 2: how they actually take action, you know, how that manifests
Speaker 2: in their hunting lives. And I think we've achieved a
Speaker 2: lot of what I was hoping to. I think there's
Speaker 2: a lot more I'd still like to get out of
Speaker 2: this kind of conversation, and maybe we'll revisit this series
Speaker 2: in the future with other people. But I guess a
Speaker 2: few things stand out for me that I want to
Speaker 2: I guess leave us with here before we you know,
Speaker 2: kind of go into our final chat with Andy May,
Speaker 2: who I guess I should mention is our guest today.
Speaker 2: He probably goes without need for introduction. He's been on
Speaker 2: this show many times in the past, He's been with
Speaker 2: us for almost a decade now. He's, of course one
Speaker 2: of the very best deer hunters out there, So when
Speaker 2: I look up to and respect and admire both as
Speaker 2: a deer hunter and as a friend, he's just a
Speaker 2: great guy all the way around. And he seemed like
Speaker 2: a perfect person to wrap this show or this series
Speaker 2: up with, because he brings an everyman perspective. He doesn't
Speaker 2: do this kind of thing full time. He has a regular,
Speaker 2: full time job, he has a family, he has other obligations,
Speaker 2: and still he manages to have incredible hunting success. So
Speaker 2: how does he do that? How does he bucket hunting
Speaker 2: within his life? How does he compartmentalize the different parts
Speaker 2: of his life in such a way that he can
Speaker 2: give the necessary energy to hunting but also the necessary
Speaker 2: focus and energy to his family and to his regular
Speaker 2: job and all these different things We cover all that.
Speaker 2: This is absolutely one of our best chats that we've
Speaker 2: had in the whole series. So I'm glad that we
Speaker 2: end with this because we're ending on a high note.
Speaker 2: But with that said, and I think some of my
Speaker 2: conversation with Andy helped crystallize some of what I'm about
Speaker 2: to tell you, and a few things stand up out
Speaker 2: for me. Number one, they would probably be three or
Speaker 2: four big consistent traits that I think have applied to
Speaker 2: everyone we've talked to in this series. Right, kind of
Speaker 2: intangible things, but are very very important. I think across
Speaker 2: the board, every single one of these best of the
Speaker 2: best folks who talk to and I think this would
Speaker 2: apply to just about anybody else we could pull in
Speaker 2: from the hunting world who achieves phenomenal success. They all
Speaker 2: have incredible drive, just tremendous drive to do this. They
Speaker 2: are very highly internally motivated to achieve whatever their goals
Speaker 2: are when it comes to deer hunting. And all of
Speaker 2: them have proven that time and time again and have
Speaker 2: had to make sacrifices and have had to make choices
Speaker 2: within their life to be able to prioritize this drive
Speaker 2: that they have for deer hunting. So Number one, incredible
Speaker 2: drive and they have made sacrifices to be able to
Speaker 2: execute on that drive for good and bed Number two,
Speaker 2: they are all independent thinkers. This is something that dan
Speaker 2: Enfel pointed out explicitly himself, But I think all of
Speaker 2: them have taken a lead, not follow approach to deer hunting.
Speaker 2: They certainly learned from other people along the way, but
Speaker 2: they did not let that be the end of their
Speaker 2: hunting education. They supplemented what they learned from other people
Speaker 2: with hours and hours, days and days and weeks and
Speaker 2: months and years and thousands of hours in the field
Speaker 2: to learn these lessons themselves. The only way you can
Speaker 2: really become an absolutely best of the best elite deer
Speaker 2: hunter is to be in the field a lot, learning
Speaker 2: things the hard way. And if you do that, and
Speaker 2: if you allow yourself to try new things, to fail,
Speaker 2: to try again, to learn to adjust, and never get
Speaker 2: stuck in any one way, never get stuck with just
Speaker 2: one person's approach and just doing everything they do. If
Speaker 2: you do that, you then have the opportunity to create
Speaker 2: your own style, to create your own hunting approach. And
Speaker 2: these elite deer hunters have done that. They are independent thinkers.
Speaker 2: They pulled all these different ideas from all across the
Speaker 2: hunting world into their own world and then made something
Speaker 2: unique and then learned to do that very well. Number three.
Speaker 2: I think every one of these folks is incredibly disciplined,
Speaker 2: you know, in different ways, but all of them make
Speaker 2: a set of goals tasks that they need to do
Speaker 2: certain things throughout the off season, leading up to the year,
Speaker 2: certain things in the season, and they stick to it.
Speaker 2: They say they're going to do something and they do
Speaker 2: it right. They don't cut corners, they don't write out
Speaker 2: a to do list and then skip a bunch of things.
Speaker 2: They execute. They check every box, they dot every eye,
Speaker 2: they cross every teeth, They do all the little things right.
Speaker 2: They are disciplined, they stick to their guns, they do
Speaker 2: what needs to be done, and they don't make excuses.
Speaker 2: Very important. Number three, and I think this goes back
Speaker 2: to number one to a degree, but they all have
Speaker 2: largely have a very single minded focus. They're very focused
Speaker 2: on whitetail deer, and they have made a choice to
Speaker 2: focus intensely on this one thing and have sacrificed other
Speaker 2: things to allow for that. This came up over and
Speaker 2: over and over again. Other than you know, maybe Tony
Speaker 2: who said he doesn't do this as much anymore, but
Speaker 2: everyone else pretty much said, I don't have other hobbies.
Speaker 2: I don't do other things. I don't go boating, I
Speaker 2: don't go ATVing, I don't go fishing. I don't do
Speaker 2: this thing or that thing. I just focus on white tails.
Speaker 2: I think about white tails all the time. This is
Speaker 2: what I've poured my blood, sweat and tears into. I've
Speaker 2: given my all to this, and some people have said,
Speaker 2: you know, sometimes to the detriment of other things that
Speaker 2: maybe are very important in their lives. And I think
Speaker 2: that brings me to my final point, and a really
Speaker 2: important one, I think, which is that as I've thought
Speaker 2: about this, as I've listened to all these people and
Speaker 2: thought about what they've shared with us, and I recognize
Speaker 2: and I want to make sure I make it very clear.
Speaker 2: I admire every one of them. I admire their success.
Speaker 2: I admire their drive and their focus and the results
Speaker 2: they have as deer hunters. And I appreciate the way
Speaker 2: they've helped so many of us learn through their experiences
Speaker 2: and what they've shared. But I've also come to find
Speaker 2: that maybe I don't want the same things, and maybe
Speaker 2: you don't either, Because I think it's very important to
Speaker 2: point out that everything they say they are doing and
Speaker 2: have done and will do and the way they prioritize
Speaker 2: their life and the way they focus on certain things
Speaker 2: and taking time energy away from other things. We each
Speaker 2: have our own personal decisions about how we want to
Speaker 2: prioritize our lives, how we want to delegate our energy
Speaker 2: and our time. But you don't need to do what
Speaker 2: these guys are doing. You don't need to chase the
Speaker 2: same goals that they are. You don't need to be
Speaker 2: Dan infalt Ro, Anja Dequisto, or Andy May or anybody else.
Speaker 2: I think it's very important that we be careful not
Speaker 2: to look at these folks in the hunting media who
Speaker 2: are incredible hunters and who I respect and admire and
Speaker 2: I'm impressed by. But we don't need to be that.
Speaker 2: We don't all need to kill five or six bucks
Speaker 2: a year. We don't need to have Andy May level success,
Speaker 2: and it's okay if you don't. Right, we need to
Speaker 2: remember that we are hunting our own hunts, and yeah,
Speaker 2: we want to get better, Yeah we want to work hard,
Speaker 2: Yeah we want to be the best we can be,
Speaker 2: but we also want to have fun and maybe you know,
Speaker 2: at least in my case, I also want to be
Speaker 2: able to spend a lot of time with my kids
Speaker 2: in the woods, and that means I'm not going to
Speaker 2: kill as many big deer. And I also want to
Speaker 2: spend a lot of time in the spring and summer
Speaker 2: camping and hiking and fishing and doing things that are
Speaker 2: taking time away from my ability to kill deer or
Speaker 2: prepare to kill deer. So no, I'm probably not going
Speaker 2: to kill four or five or six giant deer a year.
Speaker 2: I'm probably not going to kill owners every year like
Speaker 2: Ben Rising. I'm not going to have as many record
Speaker 2: book bucks as John Eberhart. I'm not going to put
Speaker 2: down the number of deer that Andy May does every year.
Speaker 2: And that's okay, and it's okay for you too. Whatever
Speaker 2: your goal is, whatever your number is, whatever it is
Speaker 2: you're chasing, it doesn't have to be like me, doesn't
Speaker 2: have to be like Andy, doesn't have to be like
Speaker 2: Tony or Ben or Andre or Dan or anybody else.
Speaker 2: Hunt for you, hunt for the reasons that fill your cup,
Speaker 2: that satisfy you, that fulfill you, and pick and choose
Speaker 2: and learn from these different lessons we've had here throughout
Speaker 2: this series and all my other episodes over the course
Speaker 2: of this podcast. But think about a really key thing
Speaker 2: that all these guys have said. To have the level
Speaker 2: of success they've had, and whether they've said it's explicitly
Speaker 2: or not, it comes through they have all had to
Speaker 2: make tremendous sacrifices. And think carefully if you want to
Speaker 2: make the same sacrifices yourself. Are big deer or a
Speaker 2: lot of deer on the wall worth missing family get
Speaker 2: togethers or your son or daughter's soccer game, or an
Speaker 2: anniversary dinner with your wife or whatever it might be.
Speaker 3: Is it worth it?
Speaker 2: Because a lot of guys chasing this thing miss those events,
Speaker 2: or even if they're there physically, they might not be
Speaker 2: there mentally. Ben Rising talked about that being a problem
Speaker 2: he's recognizing himself. Is that how you want to do this?
Speaker 2: Is the boon and crocket buck Worth spacing out during
Speaker 2: your kid's piano recital is obsessing over killing three mature
Speaker 2: deer this year and checking this box and checking that
Speaker 2: box and checking this box. Is it really worth it?
Speaker 2: If you're miserable half the time, if you're stressed all fall,
Speaker 2: if you are grinding yourself to a pulp, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe it is. And if it is more power to
Speaker 2: you chase that dream. If that's what does it for you,
Speaker 2: if that is your number one priority, then absolutely go
Speaker 2: for it. We're seeing with these conversations that that kind
Speaker 2: of focus is what's necessary to have that tippy top
Speaker 2: of the pyramid success. But I don't want anyone to
Speaker 2: think that that is necessary if you have different goals,
Speaker 2: because if chasing whitetailed deer leads to you missing out
Speaker 2: on things with your family, or your faith, or your community,
Speaker 2: or balance in your life, actual happiness in your life,
Speaker 2: then we are going down the wrong path. And I
Speaker 2: worry that there's a lot of that happening in our community.
Speaker 2: And so I think we can learn a ton of
Speaker 2: positive things from these six folks we've talked to this
Speaker 2: week or this past six weeks, and it's incredible, great stuff.
Speaker 2: But I also want us to all take a little
Speaker 2: bit of time here to think about whether or not
Speaker 2: this is the right path for us as individuals, and
Speaker 2: be honest about that, both with the sacrifices required if
Speaker 2: you want that, and also being honest with ourselves about
Speaker 2: what it is we actually want to get out of
Speaker 2: this and knowingly, Kay, if I don't want that kind
Speaker 2: of lifestyle, because I do want balance or or more
Speaker 2: family time or more fishing time or anything like that.
Speaker 2: That is okay, But then don't compare yourself to how
Speaker 2: Andy or Ben is doing on Instagram. Right. We talked
Speaker 2: about this with I can't remember who it was earlier
Speaker 2: this month. But comparison is the thief of joy. We
Speaker 2: have to stop comparing ourselves to every other hunter we
Speaker 2: see on social media or TV or in the Facebook
Speaker 2: group or whatever it is. We have to enjoy our community,
Speaker 2: build each other up, enjoy each other's success, but then
Speaker 2: have a very narrow focus when it comes to what
Speaker 2: we are doing, because nobody really cares whether you kill
Speaker 2: a deer or not. Nobody is paying attention, Nobody understands
Speaker 2: what it takes for you personally, whatever sacrifices it might be,
Speaker 2: whatever energy it takes, that's that's a youth thing, and
Speaker 2: it should be a youth thing. And so don't let
Speaker 2: anybody else's choices, sacrifices, goals success, Do not let that
Speaker 2: influence how you hunt deer, how you you know, derive
Speaker 2: satisfaction out of this thing. Because hunting and fishing and
Speaker 2: doing these things in the natural world, it is such
Speaker 2: an incredible blessing. It's such an incredible privilege it is.
Speaker 2: It is tapping into one of the most human part
Speaker 2: I mean, just one of the most core things of
Speaker 2: what it means to be human. And it's a really
Speaker 2: special thing in today's modern era that we still can
Speaker 2: do that. Don't tarnish that. Don't that by doing it
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons or letting outside pressures ruin the
Speaker 2: joy of it in your own life, and certainly don't
Speaker 2: let that ruin other parts of your life. Then in
Speaker 2: the long run, when you're sitting on your deathbed, you'll
Speaker 2: recognize are so much more important. You're not going to
Speaker 2: be sitting there at eighty five, laying in the hospital
Speaker 2: bed wishing you'd put one more booner on the wall.
Speaker 2: But if you've got a wall full of big deer,
Speaker 2: but you didn't spend time with your kids, or your wife,
Speaker 2: or with your community members or doing things that really
Speaker 2: truly do matter in the long run, then you might
Speaker 2: really have some regrets. So I hope that we can
Speaker 2: come out of this series with lots of lesson learned,
Speaker 2: lots of ideas and ways we can become better deer hunters. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: but I think it would be a missed opportunity if
Speaker 2: we also didn't each take some time ourselves to think
Speaker 2: about if we're chasing the right thing and if we're
Speaker 2: okay with the sacrifice that we are making in order
Speaker 2: to chase those goals. So that's where my head's at.
Speaker 2: After all of this, I think, without any further ado,
Speaker 2: I will leave you with two very quick updates, kind
Speaker 2: of some house cleaning, and then we'll get to our
Speaker 2: chat with Andy May. House cleaning point. I can't say cleaning.
Speaker 2: House cleaning is what I'm trying to say. House cleaning
Speaker 2: point number one. As a reminder, we mentioned this last week.
Speaker 2: First Light has just launched. They're all new line of
Speaker 2: white tail hunting gear. I have been extensively involved in
Speaker 2: the design and testing process. So was Tony Peterson, Andy
Speaker 2: May was as well, Levi Morgan. A whole bunch of
Speaker 2: folks spent a lot of time trying this gear, testing
Speaker 2: this gear, sitting in zoom meetings and real in person meetings,
Speaker 2: spitballing about what we want, what we need, what we've
Speaker 2: miss been missing in the past. And the outcome is
Speaker 2: this set of gear. So highly recommend you check out
Speaker 2: over at first light dot com. House clean point. Number
Speaker 2: two is the Whitetail Edu series continues. These are the
Speaker 2: educational videos that Tony and I have been putting out
Speaker 2: every week over on the meet Either Clips YouTube channel.
Speaker 2: Head on over there check those out. We've had episodes
Speaker 2: about scrapes and rubs and deer droppings and tracks and
Speaker 2: all sorts of stuff like that. So lots more foundational
Speaker 2: whitetail education over there at the Meat Either Clips YouTube channel,
Speaker 2: so check that out. Thank you for tuning in. I
Speaker 2: hope you enjoy this final episode of our mindsets of
Speaker 2: the Whitetail Master series. And now here's mister Andy May
Speaker 2: all right with me back on the show is a
Speaker 2: many time repeat guest and a good friend, mister Anime.
Speaker 3: I do it, man, I'm doing great, Mark. Yes, it
Speaker 3: seems like it's been a little while. I was just
Speaker 3: I reached out to you thought maybe we could hop
Speaker 3: on one after the season. You know, I kind of
Speaker 3: like to do those season recaps, and you came up
Speaker 3: with this idea. This is pretty cool. I listened to
Speaker 3: one with Andre Dquisto the other day and it was
Speaker 3: pretty good. I like it.
Speaker 2: Well, thanks, man, I appreciate you. Always appreciate you making
Speaker 2: time for this. Folks obviously have been learning a lot
Speaker 2: from you over the years since since we've started having
Speaker 2: these podcast conversations and others that you've had. And as
Speaker 2: you know, the idea with this series has been to
Speaker 2: chat with the people who I look at as some
Speaker 2: of the very best of the best whitetail hunters out
Speaker 2: there to try to better understand, you know, what's going
Speaker 2: on behind the scenes. You know, what's going on in
Speaker 2: their mind when they're thinking through their plans for the season,
Speaker 2: or their plans for the day, or dealing with struggles
Speaker 2: and challenges and adversity, and understanding how they think about
Speaker 2: the building blocks of their success. And and even though
Speaker 2: I know over the years you have resisted the title
Speaker 2: of like a white tail expert or anything, that you're
Speaker 2: stuck with it and uh. And so you're stuck with
Speaker 2: the burden of helping us all understand how you do
Speaker 2: it and uh. And That's what I'm hoping we can
Speaker 2: do here today. So are you are you game to
Speaker 2: kind of open up like the hood of your brain
Speaker 2: and let us see inside for a little bit.
Speaker 3: Absolutely? Yeah, I love I love this because I am
Speaker 3: kind of fascinated too. About you know, different hunters that
Speaker 3: you know I admire, and how their brain works and
Speaker 3: and how they've gotten to where they're at. So this
Speaker 3: is right up my alley. I I kind of do
Speaker 3: the same on my own when I you know, talk
Speaker 3: to guys and and befriend guys and get to know
Speaker 3: them and and I really like to learn how they
Speaker 3: tick and what motivates them and just how they how
Speaker 3: they get it done so cansistently and and and continue
Speaker 3: to do that, you know, year after year after year.
Speaker 3: And it's interesting because the guys that that do it,
Speaker 3: they're there are unique individuals and there's they all have
Speaker 3: their own strengths, you know, and weaknesses. So yeah, this
Speaker 3: should be fun. I'm not even sure, uh you know,
Speaker 3: how I'm gonna answer yet, but we'll just we'll just
Speaker 3: see how it goes off the cuff.
Speaker 2: That's perfect. See you mentioned motivations, which is which is
Speaker 2: perfect because that's kind of the first thing that I
Speaker 2: like to kind of broach with people's is getting a
Speaker 2: first look at why they are the way they are,
Speaker 2: those motivations. So the first thing I want to hear
Speaker 2: from you, Andy, is how do you look at success?
Speaker 2: How do you define success as a deer hunter.
Speaker 3: Today today, you know, it's it's probably changed and evolved
Speaker 3: over the years. Certainly, certainly at some point the success
Speaker 3: is is harvesting an animal. I mean that is why
Speaker 3: I personally one of the one of the reasons is
Speaker 3: I put in so much time is to actually get
Speaker 3: the job done. You know, during the season. It doesn't
Speaker 3: mean you know, killing two or three or four or
Speaker 3: five or six. It doesn't mean that. But like, certainly
Speaker 3: there is some component of that. Being successful is actually
Speaker 3: going out and achieving the goal that you said of
Speaker 3: harvesting an animal that you know that you're trying to get.
Speaker 3: But like, as I've gotten older, you know, I've went
Speaker 3: through periods where, uh, you know, maybe I got so
Speaker 3: obsessed or so focused on one thing. I made hunting
Speaker 3: a little more stressful that I'm on it. It wasn't as fun,
Speaker 3: and I think hunting should be fun. I mean, we
Speaker 3: love this, right, we absolutely love this. We live for
Speaker 3: hunting season. And to go through a hunting season where
Speaker 3: you're frustrated and wanting to quit and you're you know,
Speaker 3: you're not the best you can be at home as
Speaker 3: a father and as a husband, like that sucks and
Speaker 3: I've been there, so having fun I think, you know,
Speaker 3: I would define that having fun in a season is
Speaker 3: that's having success. Like you did what you love, you
Speaker 3: had a great time doing it. And for me personally,
Speaker 3: just new experiences. I am all about trying things new,
Speaker 3: going to new places, challenging myself in new types of terrain,
Speaker 3: new states, new species. I would say those three things,
Speaker 3: and of course I go there and I want to
Speaker 3: get something. But if I don't get something on a trip,
Speaker 3: I don't look at that as unsuccessful. I look at
Speaker 3: that as especially if I'm going to a new like
Speaker 3: I took step one into learning this new thing, this
Speaker 3: new species, this new state, this new type of terrain,
Speaker 3: this new tactic, and then I know, just because I've
Speaker 3: been able to do it. When I go out there
Speaker 3: again and I learned from my mistakes and I improve
Speaker 3: a little bit, eventually the success comes. But if I
Speaker 3: were to go a whole season and not kill anything,
Speaker 3: like not have an opportunity, or maybe I screw up
Speaker 3: my opportunities, there would be a part of me that
Speaker 3: would feel like I was unsuccessful, at least a part
Speaker 3: of it, you know. So yeah, it's it's kind of
Speaker 3: a long drawn out answer, But I would say all
Speaker 3: those things have fun, new experiences, challenging yourself, and then ultimately, yeah,
Speaker 3: I'd like to wrap my tag around something.
Speaker 2: So elaborate on that last part though you mentioned you
Speaker 2: talked about, you know, if you didn't kill anything in
Speaker 2: the whole season. Can you describe a little bit more
Speaker 2: around your thoughts on failure? You know what other examples
Speaker 2: of failure there might be. What's something that would happen
Speaker 2: you would truly view as like, man, that was that
Speaker 2: was really dropping the ball? Is there anything else other
Speaker 2: than just a season with zero tags filled in? What
Speaker 2: you would call it a true failure?
Speaker 3: Well? Well, yeah, like for one, kind of what I mentioned,
Speaker 3: If I go through a season where I felt like
Speaker 3: I didn't have fun, I came out a worse person.
Speaker 3: I'm a worst person at home, I'm frustrated, I'm stressed out.
Speaker 3: That's your failing. You know, something's wrong there. You're putting
Speaker 3: too much emphasis on it, or you're not able to
Speaker 3: separate the highs and lows of you know, bow hunting
Speaker 3: with family life. I've gotten really good at that now,
Speaker 3: Like I can you know, I have a really bad
Speaker 3: hunt where I screw up and blow it, and I
Speaker 3: can just kind of let it roll off my back.
Speaker 3: I'm home, and yeah, I mean it's eaten me a
Speaker 3: little bit, but uh, you know, I'm able to still
Speaker 3: function and be a be a good person. Another thing
Speaker 3: for me that that I definitely feel like I've failed
Speaker 3: is when I screw up an opportunity. When I make
Speaker 3: the error. That doesn't necessarily mean you know, sitting in
Speaker 3: the wrong spot. It means, you know, I have my
Speaker 3: opportunity and I blow it. I wound the deer, I
Speaker 3: miss the deer. I make a stupid error like I'm
Speaker 3: not paying attention, or i'm you know, I'm moving and
Speaker 3: the buck I want comes in and sees me, or
Speaker 3: I'm on my phone, you know, and I lose my opportunity.
Speaker 3: Those are those are failures, you know, Those are those
Speaker 3: are things that are like God, like what an idiot?
Speaker 3: You know, Like I work so hard and you know
Speaker 3: how hard that opportunity is and then you blow it
Speaker 3: like that. You know, that's that's a tough pill to swallow.
Speaker 3: I can even handle missing a deer. You know, I've
Speaker 3: talked to you about this, Like if as long as
Speaker 3: I execute a good shot, like if I don't punch
Speaker 3: the trigger and I don't rush, and I stay on
Speaker 3: it and I pull pull pull, or I execute a
Speaker 3: good shot and then something bad happens. I'm able to
Speaker 3: live with that because I feel like I did my part.
Speaker 3: The animal drop, the animal moved, maybe I hit something
Speaker 3: I didn't see. But if I like kind of lose
Speaker 3: my cool I punched the trigger, I get so nervous,
Speaker 3: or I rushed the shot, I wasn't able to call
Speaker 3: myself down. That's on me. And now I wounded that
Speaker 3: animal or I missed that animal. I blew that opportunity
Speaker 3: because I screwed up so that I can't stand for
Speaker 3: and I still do it once in a while. It
Speaker 3: is bow hunting. I know it's a part of bow hunting,
Speaker 3: but it never gets any easier. Another thing that I
Speaker 3: think would be a failure is like quitting, you know,
Speaker 3: on a hunt. You know, like I've there's been there's
Speaker 3: been a couple of hunts and swear maybe they were tough,
Speaker 3: or maybe things were going on at home, you know
Speaker 3: that weren't like perfect. You get frustrated, you get your
Speaker 3: butt beat, and then like the next two days or
Speaker 3: eighty five degrees and you're like, I should just you know,
Speaker 3: I'll just go home, you know, just cut my losses.
Speaker 3: I've done that once or twice, and you get about
Speaker 3: an hour down the road and you feel kind of
Speaker 3: like a piece of crap, you know, like you're like,
Speaker 3: I just I literally just quit. You know. It's one
Speaker 3: thing if there's an emergency at home, that's different. But
Speaker 3: I'm talking like you're giving up or a season, you're
Speaker 3: having a tough season, and you just hang it up.
Speaker 3: You know. You maybe you set some goals and you're
Speaker 3: not reaching them, it doesn't feel like you're going to
Speaker 3: reach them, and you just quit. To me, that would
Speaker 3: be a failure for me if I did that, So
Speaker 3: I don't do that anymore. I've done that a couple
Speaker 3: of times early on, even on a couple of hunts
Speaker 3: far from home, you know, just like left a day
Speaker 3: early for no real reason other than it was a
Speaker 3: tough hun or it was hot and the weather wasn't right,
Speaker 3: or I screwed up. And I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: you know there was one actually one comes to mind that,
Speaker 3: you know, that hunt we did in Nebraska. Remember I
Speaker 3: was having that nerve pain in my back. You remember
Speaker 3: that I had a whole nother day to hunt, but
Speaker 3: if you remember correctly, I had you know, I had
Speaker 3: that opportunity at a very nice buck, and I had
Speaker 3: forgotten my range finder. He's certainly in range, and you know,
Speaker 3: I made a big time blunder. You know. I literally
Speaker 3: grabbed my stuff out of your truck. I start walking
Speaker 3: down the two track and I'm like, you know, binoculars,
Speaker 3: range finder. I turn around, I see you bombing over
Speaker 3: the hill and I'm like, oh no, you know, but
Speaker 3: you know how far we were away from camp. And
Speaker 3: I get my chance and I blew it. There's an
Speaker 3: error there, and I kind of set, you know, let
Speaker 3: the wind out of my sails. I was dealing with
Speaker 3: some crazy back nerve pain. I just quit on that hunt.
Speaker 3: I quit. I was like, you know, you know stuff.
Speaker 3: I was dealing with some stuff at home with my
Speaker 3: you know, my daughter, and it's like, let's just go,
Speaker 3: you know. And I look back at that one and
Speaker 3: maybe one or two other ones, it's like I quit.
Speaker 3: You know. Yeah, I was in a lot of pain,
Speaker 3: but like I'm tougher than that, you know, I can.
Speaker 3: I can grind it out. So those things to me.
Speaker 3: For me would be failure, not having fun, screwing up
Speaker 3: your opportunity, making like making dumb errors. I try to
Speaker 3: give myself a little grace there because bow hunting is hard.
Speaker 3: But when I actually screw something up, I wasn't paying attention,
Speaker 3: or I make a bad shot because of something I
Speaker 3: did wrong. You know, those are the tough ones. Those
Speaker 3: are the ones where I just feel like God, you
Speaker 3: know you can't be doing this. You're better than that.
Speaker 3: You're a veteran at this. These are not the mistakes
Speaker 3: you should be making.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned one thing being a failure being to
Speaker 2: bring that negativity home, right, So, so you make a
Speaker 2: mistake or things aren't going well in the woods and
Speaker 2: then you bring it home. And how how it's hard
Speaker 2: sometimes to separate the in the field stuff from the
Speaker 2: home stuff. But you said you've gotten better at that,
Speaker 2: and I have to ask, because I've struggled with this too.
Speaker 2: You know, how have you gotten better at that? Is
Speaker 2: there any anything specifically that has helped you to be
Speaker 2: able to leave what's in the woods in the woods
Speaker 2: and then be able to be fully present with your
Speaker 2: family or at home and not bring that negativity into
Speaker 2: the home. Atmosphere. Has there been anything that's helped you
Speaker 2: do that?
Speaker 3: Probably just experience and seeing how it negatively affects my
Speaker 3: loved ones when I do that. You know, if I
Speaker 3: you know, I maybe I miss a deer or you know,
Speaker 3: I wound a buck or something, and I come home
Speaker 3: and I'm grumpy, and I'm not talking in anybody, and
Speaker 3: I'm stressed out, and I'm like, you know, that was
Speaker 3: my chance. And you know, it's like these people didn't
Speaker 3: do anything, you know, and and here I am supposed
Speaker 3: to be the leader of this family, and and and
Speaker 3: I'm bringing that negativity home. I've just realized over the
Speaker 3: years that like I love hunting, I am I'm a hunter.
Speaker 3: It's part of what I am, but it's a small part.
Speaker 3: I'm a I'm a father, I'm a partner, I'm a husband,
Speaker 3: and those things are just more important to me. You know.
Speaker 3: It's it's and I've seen it negatively affect them, and
Speaker 3: then it causes stress in the relationship. It causes stress
Speaker 3: between you know, father and daughter, and you know, I
Speaker 3: just don't want to let that time be affected and slip.
Speaker 3: I think too. I've learned that over the years, like
Speaker 3: I'm going to get another opportunity, you know, I I
Speaker 3: I I've made mistakes. I've worked so hard at eliminating mistakes.
Speaker 3: I mean, I train my body, I train my mind,
Speaker 3: I shoot, I scout, I do I do everything as
Speaker 3: far as preparation that I can think of that will
Speaker 3: help me be successful. And I still fail sometimes. And
Speaker 3: it's okay. You know, bowhunting is hard, and I've learned
Speaker 3: that these mistakes are going to come. When I make them,
Speaker 3: I'm going to do everything I can to correct them.
Speaker 3: When something bad happens out there that was out of
Speaker 3: my control, I just let it go, you know, I
Speaker 3: just let it go. I'm going to have more opportunities
Speaker 3: down the road. I'm not going to bring that home.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to affect my loved ones like that.
Speaker 3: So I think over time, you know, you realize that
Speaker 3: it's not the end of the world. It would be
Speaker 3: the end of the world. If your wife leaves you,
Speaker 3: it would be the end of the world. If your
Speaker 3: daughter feels like you weren't there for her, you know,
Speaker 3: or you know, she moves off to college and you're like,
Speaker 3: what was I doing? You know, like why was I
Speaker 3: spending that much time? Or obsessing about it that much
Speaker 3: that it made me not be present or made her
Speaker 3: feel like I wasn't there for her. To me, that
Speaker 3: would be the end of the world, Like that would
Speaker 3: be something that would hang with me the rest of
Speaker 3: my life. So I don't know. I've just realized that
Speaker 3: partially just from my own mistakes, listening to other guys,
Speaker 3: other really good hunters that we know that admit that
Speaker 3: that's what they chose to do, you know, throughout their career,
Speaker 3: and a lot of them regret it. So if anything,
Speaker 3: I hope people see me and realize, like, yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: you're maybe you won't be you know, at that what
Speaker 3: some consider that elite level, But you can still have
Speaker 3: a lot of success. You can still have a lot
Speaker 3: of fun, you can still kill a lot of animals
Speaker 3: and have a lot of experiences and still be a
Speaker 3: good husband, still be a good dad. Do the extra
Speaker 3: things while you're there, be extra present while you're there.
Speaker 3: It's important that I'm there, but it's also important that
Speaker 3: you know. Sienna and Lisa, they I want them to
Speaker 3: see that I have a passion. I want them to
Speaker 3: see that I have something that drives me. It makes
Speaker 3: me a better person. It gives me direction, It gives
Speaker 3: me something that makes me want to work out more,
Speaker 3: It makes me want to be outside more. It makes
Speaker 3: me a better person when I come home and they
Speaker 3: my daughter sees me go out every day. She sees
Speaker 3: me go to the gym every day, and she sees
Speaker 3: me go out and shoot my bow just about every day.
Speaker 3: And you know, maybe she's not going to be a hunter,
Speaker 3: but maybe she's going to be something else and she
Speaker 3: you know, or maybe it's her career and she's gonna
Speaker 3: be like you know, that's why Dad was good at that,
Speaker 3: because he devoted so much time. And I feel like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is this is pretty much all I do. And
Speaker 3: certainly it can seem, you know, obsessive, but I try
Speaker 3: my best to pick out little windows when to work
Speaker 3: on these things and just prioritize, you know, the family
Speaker 3: and make sure everything there is is handled and solid,
Speaker 3: and if it's not, I'll put in more time in
Speaker 3: that less time in the preparation and tell tell things
Speaker 3: even out and I find that good equilibrium. So I
Speaker 3: think it just takes time, obviously, communicating with your family,
Speaker 3: making sure everybody is is uh is good to go,
Speaker 3: and kind of understands you know, what what your plans are.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's hard, you know, and I find
Speaker 3: myself self correcting, you know, every year. I've learned to
Speaker 3: just kind of anticipate that before it gets to like
Speaker 3: a boiling point. But I don't know, I I try
Speaker 3: to emphasize that because I've I've seen guys, guys I
Speaker 3: know that have just like you know, ruin their marriage
Speaker 3: or ruin their relationship with their kids, are missed out
Speaker 3: on all those opportunities when they were little, And I
Speaker 3: don't know, it's just not for me. Makes me sad.
Speaker 2: So hees not worth it. It's just not worth it.
Speaker 2: So so one more question on failure, and this will
Speaker 2: be a little bit different than I'm curious about your
Speaker 2: favorite failure or the most useful failure or the failure
Speaker 2: or the mistake that you made that coming out of
Speaker 2: that you learned something that changed your trajectory moving forward.
Speaker 2: Is there anything that comes to mind over the years that, man,
Speaker 2: you really screwed it up, But man, you'll learn from
Speaker 2: that one and it made all the difference.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you know, coming out of that season, just
Speaker 3: feeling about as low as I can feel as a
Speaker 3: boat hunter. I decided that I was going to do
Speaker 3: whatever it took to fix it. And I realized I
Speaker 3: was dealing with some target panic. I had done some research,
Speaker 3: so I started, you know, talking to the right people,
Speaker 3: reaching out to guys that were more skilled as me
Speaker 3: as an archer, and really learned what target panic was
Speaker 3: and how to beat it. So you and I have
Speaker 3: talked about that a lot. I'm not going to dive
Speaker 3: deep into that, but I did the work all off season,
Speaker 3: just pounded away, learning a whole different shot execution, a
Speaker 3: different way to wire your brain during the shot change
Speaker 3: releases up, and I was shooting better than I ever had,
Speaker 3: with no anticipation, with no panic, and everything was going phenomenal.
Speaker 3: In fact, I was going into that next season twenty thirteen,
Speaker 3: with like a lot of confidence. And for some reason,
Speaker 3: I don't know why I did this. I was going
Speaker 3: to Maryland for an early season hunt, and like two
Speaker 3: days before I left, I hadn't punched the trigger or
Speaker 3: had any issues. About two days before I left, I
Speaker 3: decided to like go back to my old release, just
Speaker 3: because I was using a Hinge release and to help
Speaker 3: me get past the target panic. And I just felt
Speaker 3: like I just feel more comfortable hunting with an index finger.
Speaker 3: So I went to Maryland. I went on that trip,
Speaker 3: and sure enough, I get a chance at a big
Speaker 3: buck and I do the same exact thing, and I
Speaker 3: just punched that trigger and miss him. So I threw
Speaker 3: that release away. Right after that, I was just absolutely
Speaker 3: disgusted with myself. Went back to the drawing board as
Speaker 3: far as like the drills that you and I have
Speaker 3: you know, talked about, and switched to basically using a
Speaker 3: thumb button or hinge and just executing a shot in
Speaker 3: a completely different way. And I never had that issue again.
Speaker 3: To this day, I've still never had target panic. I
Speaker 3: mean a little an anticipation will sometimes come in, but
Speaker 3: I never changed the way execute a shot. I never
Speaker 3: punched the trigger. But to this day, I still continue
Speaker 3: with those same drills just to make sure that I'm
Speaker 3: I'm staying ahead of it. I realized it was an
Speaker 3: issue for me, but that made such a huge impact
Speaker 3: on my enjoyment for archery. My my shots on animals before,
Speaker 3: which were very marginal, even though I was getting most
Speaker 3: of them. Now I was getting a many more good
Speaker 3: shots with short track jobs. You know, just what you
Speaker 3: want you know, putting that animal down quickly so that
Speaker 3: they don't have to suffer, and just just getting it
Speaker 3: done in a much cleaner, more ethical way. So that
Speaker 3: that was probably that that stands out to me the
Speaker 3: most as having the biggest impact because it was impacting
Speaker 3: me in such a negative way. I was able to
Speaker 3: get on deer, I was able to put myself in
Speaker 3: front of deer, and that was like, that was kind
Speaker 3: of a slow progression. There was never one big change
Speaker 3: whereas like all all of a sudden, I was shooting
Speaker 3: big Bucks. Now it was a I had to climb
Speaker 3: the ladder. You know, I was I was young, and
Speaker 3: I was persistent, and I was hard working, and I
Speaker 3: was able to get maybe a shot or maybe two
Speaker 3: shots at a nice buck in a whole season, and
Speaker 3: just the way my brain works, you know, learning and
Speaker 3: constantly trying to improve, you know, I just slowly claimed
Speaker 3: that climbed that ladder of you know, maybe getting two
Speaker 3: or three shots or three or four shots. And then
Speaker 3: it was from like two year old bucks to two
Speaker 3: and three year old bucks and then three and four
Speaker 3: year old bucks and then so on. So there were
Speaker 3: certainly things tactics that made a change and helped me
Speaker 3: grow as a hunter and kind of increase that skill.
Speaker 3: But that you know, mastering that shot execution under high
Speaker 3: pressure is what made the most impact and is certainly
Speaker 3: put the most animals on the ground for me.
Speaker 2: So one of the things that I was going to
Speaker 2: ask you about was was about your process for getting
Speaker 2: better at something, and you kind of just gave us
Speaker 2: a perfect example there of how to get better at
Speaker 2: your shot sequence. So it sounded like some of the
Speaker 2: things you did were first like identify the problem, like
Speaker 2: identify the thing you have to work on. Number two,
Speaker 2: it seemed like you then went back to the drawing
Speaker 2: board and said, Okay, who can I seek out? Who
Speaker 2: has more information about this, who is better at this,
Speaker 2: who's been through this? You scoured for other sources of
Speaker 2: you know, resources to help you. And then three you
Speaker 2: just you just worked at and worked at and worked at.
Speaker 2: It is that three part process the process that you
Speaker 2: take to get better at something within the deer hunting
Speaker 2: world or did I miss a step there? Or is
Speaker 2: there anything else you would add to that if you
Speaker 2: were trying to tell someone like man, this is how
Speaker 2: I address a problem or address a week area.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I think that's it. I think you said it.
Speaker 3: You know, you have first have to admit that you
Speaker 3: have that problem or that weakness. I go back to
Speaker 3: what you and I have talked about a few times,
Speaker 3: like there were there were periods where I was, you know,
Speaker 3: very successful in the pre rut and rut, but like
Speaker 3: late season in early season, you know, I would have
Speaker 3: very intermittent success. It just wasn't that much. I wasn't
Speaker 3: shooting mature animals in that timeframe nearly as much. And
Speaker 3: I think that could be said for most of the
Speaker 3: hunters out there. But I saw people doing it, you know,
Speaker 3: And whenever I see someone doing something that I can't
Speaker 3: do or that I'm not doing in the bow hunting world,
Speaker 3: I take interest in that very very closely. And one
Speaker 3: because I the way my mindset is is I want
Speaker 3: to constantly be better. I want to constantly improve as
Speaker 3: a bow hunter. I have no interest in like setting
Speaker 3: myself up with a scenario, you know, maybe like a
Speaker 3: farm or a tactic or a style and then just
Speaker 3: kind of riding that out, you know, and just filling
Speaker 3: a wall full of big bucks like that doesn't really
Speaker 3: interest me. It doesn't motivate me. But getting better at
Speaker 3: something when you think you're not good at it. That
Speaker 3: motivates me very much. So when I see guys like
Speaker 3: Jesse Coots, you know, who's killing his target book on
Speaker 3: the first day of the season four years in a
Speaker 3: row or whatever it was, I'm like, what, like how,
Speaker 3: you know, like so and here I am, you know,
Speaker 3: hunting every opening day for you know, fifteen seventeen years
Speaker 3: and I have maybe a couple of bucks under my
Speaker 3: belt early season, you know. So, Yeah, I sought out
Speaker 3: the who in my mind was the expert or the
Speaker 3: person that was doing it at such an elite level,
Speaker 3: and learned everything I could from them, and then I
Speaker 3: implemented that, you know, then I put in that work
Speaker 3: that he was doing to be so successful at that time.
Speaker 3: Same thing with you know, with ground hunting. You know,
Speaker 3: I always did a bit of ground hunting when I
Speaker 3: thought the situation called for it, but I was never
Speaker 3: like super confident in it. I got busted a lot.
Speaker 3: I always felt better up in a tree. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're looking at you're watching the TV. Guys up in
Speaker 3: the tree, You're watching, you know, reading North American White
Speaker 3: Tails talking about tree stand placement. It really wasn't a thing.
Speaker 3: And then you see all of a sudden, you see
Speaker 3: guys that are doing it at a high level, like
Speaker 3: a Jared Scheffler or something. It's like, wait, that guy
Speaker 3: has skills that I don't have, you know, so that
Speaker 3: makes me. That inspires me, and that kind of revamps
Speaker 3: my motivation in bowhunting to like master that versatility, that
Speaker 3: being able to apply all sorts of tactics when the
Speaker 3: situation is right and you can keep going further down
Speaker 3: the line. Like, yeah, I was good in farm and
Speaker 3: marsh and swamps and river bottoms, but like you put
Speaker 3: me in the big woods in the hills, I kind
Speaker 3: of felt lost. Even though I could still get on deer.
Speaker 3: I was like I kind of didn't feel like I
Speaker 3: had that confidence. And so, you know, I start talking
Speaker 3: to guys that that's their bread and butter, you know,
Speaker 3: and the guys that get it done in that scenario,
Speaker 3: and then I put myself in that scenario to really
Speaker 3: learn it and to really get effective at it, you know,
Speaker 3: in multiple types of terrain, multiple states, multiple types of habitat,
Speaker 3: multiple tactics, and it's just you know, it's kind of
Speaker 3: evolved into this like versatile style where I feel very confident,
Speaker 3: whether it's you know, using a decoy, whether it's still
Speaker 3: hunting with a bow, whether it's a typical tree stand,
Speaker 3: whether it's sneaking in close to a bed, or you know,
Speaker 3: finding a good rough spot and grinding it out for
Speaker 3: a few days. I have that confidence to do it
Speaker 3: when I think that's the right move. Now I'm not
Speaker 3: always right, but I think that versatility has made me
Speaker 3: a much better hunter than I was early on, and
Speaker 3: it's made me effective throughout the season from start to
Speaker 3: finish in multiple different areas, multiple different types of terrain,
Speaker 3: multiple different levels of hunting pressure. And it's you know,
Speaker 3: you said it in the beginning, like I don't really
Speaker 3: consider myself an elite hunter because I still make mistakes
Speaker 3: all the time and I'm still like second guessing myself
Speaker 3: all the time. But it certainly has improved me as
Speaker 3: a hunter, and I feel the confidence that I can
Speaker 3: go anywhere and be effective. So I don't know, that's
Speaker 3: kind of the long the long way around that answer,
Speaker 3: but yeah, that versatility, you know, is is real important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that versatility in the experience that got you
Speaker 2: to that point is I think the secret to confidence
Speaker 2: in many cases, right, and confidence is that intangible that
Speaker 2: makes such a difference during a hunting season. So, yeah,
Speaker 2: I get you what you're saying there.
Speaker 3: Tell me this.
Speaker 2: You mentioned a bunch of things over the last twenty
Speaker 2: thirty minutes that I imagine you do consistently, things about
Speaker 2: like the way you approach you know, your archery, your
Speaker 2: physical fitness, your scouting. There's a lot of things that
Speaker 2: you seem to consistently tackle. You do things on a
Speaker 2: consistent basis to lead to consistent success. And another way
Speaker 2: to talk about these kinds of things would be habits.
Speaker 2: So I want to ask you a couple of questions
Speaker 2: about your habits, and number one, right out the gate,
Speaker 2: what would you say is your very most important habit.
Speaker 3: In regards to being successful as a bow hunter? Yeah,
Speaker 3: I would say I kind of have a habitual routine
Speaker 3: kind of throughout the year, and I don't I don't really,
Speaker 3: I don't vary from it and I don't take away
Speaker 3: from it. If anything, I just add to it. But
Speaker 3: it kind of revolves around, you know, going to the
Speaker 3: gym to make sure my body is strong and ready
Speaker 3: but also my mind. So yes, I enjoy working out.
Speaker 3: It relieves my stress. It makes me feel good. I
Speaker 3: like to feel strong, I like to feel able. When
Speaker 3: I was nineteen twenty twenty five, I was like, you know,
Speaker 3: like most guys at age full of testosterone, I just
Speaker 3: want to be big and muscular. Now I don't even
Speaker 3: care about that. I want to be effective in the woods.
Speaker 3: And I know, you know, whitetail hunting is, you know,
Speaker 3: kind of a thing where you don't necessarily need to
Speaker 3: be strong and fit. But I like to hunt other species.
Speaker 3: As you can see, like some of these deer behind me,
Speaker 3: they're mule deer. Some are high country, some are desert,
Speaker 3: some are you know, western plains. They require a lot
Speaker 3: of miles, They require a lot of flexibility and agility
Speaker 3: and endurance. So my workouts now are kind of geared
Speaker 3: more towards that. But I mentioned the mental part too.
Speaker 3: Doing that consistently just builds a strong mind. It builds
Speaker 3: me mental toughness. So I choose to get up at
Speaker 3: five because I don't want to get up at five.
Speaker 3: I choose to get up at five to get it
Speaker 3: done and to start my day because it's it's hard.
Speaker 3: It sucks, Like every time I'm like, oh god, d
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, Like every time I bitch
Speaker 3: about it, you know, but I don't sit there, you know,
Speaker 3: I don't grab my phone and him and Hall and
Speaker 3: I literally I just it goes off. I hit that
Speaker 3: thing probably within three seconds, and I just I sit
Speaker 3: up and I sit there and I stretch my back
Speaker 3: and I kind of do this and everything's creaking and cracking,
Speaker 3: and it's like, oh my gosh. And I get up
Speaker 3: and I'm stiff. You know, I got a bad back.
Speaker 3: I get up, I'm stiff. I can barely stand up straight.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, I just start moving
Speaker 3: and everything starts loosening up. And I go to the
Speaker 3: gym and I do things to kind of preserve all
Speaker 3: these ailments that I'm having as I age and to
Speaker 3: make them strong. But that getting up early and forcing
Speaker 3: myself to do it, it's like a it's like a
Speaker 3: mental hurdle that I start my day off with. And
Speaker 3: then it also doesn't interfere with family time. I'm not
Speaker 3: like working a full workday and then going to the
Speaker 3: gym for an hour and a half and then getting home.
Speaker 3: It's like, no, I'm maximizing, I can come I can
Speaker 3: come home and spend time with the family and still
Speaker 3: getting you know, get my arrows in. But it's you know,
Speaker 3: that's something that is a happen that's a routine of
Speaker 3: mine year long, and I kind of ramp that up
Speaker 3: leading up to the season. And my motivation is to
Speaker 3: be able to do this as long as I can.
Speaker 3: And I understand, like white tail hunting, you don't need
Speaker 3: to do it as much. I still think it's important.
Speaker 3: I still think it helps you. Yeah, and I want
Speaker 3: to be able to climb it. I mean, look at
Speaker 3: John Eberhart. I mean, the dude's seventy four or whatever
Speaker 3: he is and he's still prepping, you know, forty some
Speaker 3: trees thirty foot up in there. You know, I remember
Speaker 3: a couple of years ago he called me. I don't
Speaker 3: remember what he called me about, but he was like,
Speaker 3: he was hacking a trail through a marsh, like to
Speaker 3: get to this tree. I'm like, what you know? I mean,
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm like, yeah, this guy, this guy's a machine.
Speaker 3: But I want to I want to be able to
Speaker 3: do that. I want to be able to go to
Speaker 3: the mountains and crush. And that's a big time reason
Speaker 3: why I hunt with a lot of these younger guys
Speaker 3: out there because a lot of guys my age don't
Speaker 3: want to do it anymore. You know, I'm approaching fifty,
Speaker 3: but I feel great out there. I mean, I still
Speaker 3: feel great out there. In addition to that, Yes, you
Speaker 3: mentioned my archery. I love archery. Archery is like a
Speaker 3: meditation for me. It's a it's like therapy. I love
Speaker 3: shooting my bow. I do it just about every day.
Speaker 3: I mean certainly, you know, you go on trips and stuff.
Speaker 3: He can't always bring your bow. But it might not
Speaker 3: be you know, five minutes I go out there and
Speaker 3: fling a few arrows, or I might go out there
Speaker 3: for an hour. There's been days where I've literally went
Speaker 3: out three or four different times, three or four different
Speaker 3: sessions when I have like a day off or something
Speaker 3: and people are doing stuff and I have that time.
Speaker 3: But I set a set aside time each year, you know,
Speaker 3: when I'm coming out of the season, to build that muscle,
Speaker 3: memory back, build that strength, shoot those reps indoors when
Speaker 3: it's when it's snowing cold out, build that strength, build
Speaker 3: that shot execution, go through those target panic girls. Then
Speaker 3: when it starts getting nice out then I go to testing.
Speaker 3: I'll test my gear. I'll try some new fletching, I'll
Speaker 3: try some new arrows, I'll try some new heads, maybe
Speaker 3: tweak my bow a little bit, trying to find little
Speaker 3: ways to improve my gear, improve the forgiveness, improve the consistency.
Speaker 3: And I'll carry that on through you know, April, May, June.
Speaker 3: You know, I've past past few years, I've been trying
Speaker 3: to you know, stay active, bow hunting, doing some turkey,
Speaker 3: some bear, some access deer, to stay sharp. That's been helpful.
Speaker 3: But then as I get into like you know, mid July,
Speaker 3: late July, I want to settle in on something. If
Speaker 3: I'm going to make any changes, I want to settle
Speaker 3: in on it and commit to it. And then I
Speaker 3: switch to what I you know, I call like archery,
Speaker 3: you know, archery training almost bow hunting training. Where I'm
Speaker 3: going out, you know, I'm ranging, boom down, come to
Speaker 3: full draw, execute a good shot up in a tree,
Speaker 3: in my saddle in a tree, stand down on the
Speaker 3: ground on my knees. I got a great backyard where
Speaker 3: I can shoot out past one hundred yards, and there's
Speaker 3: woods on the side where I can kind of get
Speaker 3: up on the sidehill. So I can get uneven footing
Speaker 3: shooting out through holes, so everything is like realistic because
Speaker 3: I hunt a lout on the ground. Because I hunt
Speaker 3: a lot out west, I shoot from my knees, I
Speaker 3: shoot from my butt, I shoot on uneven ground, I
Speaker 3: shoot through holes, and I try to make things realistic
Speaker 3: to what I find when I bow hunt, because as
Speaker 3: you know, I mean very rarely unless you're on like
Speaker 3: a like a man Is farm where you can kind
Speaker 3: of set up and you know, kind of know where
Speaker 3: the deer kind of come from and come to you.
Speaker 3: Then you can maybe set up some really good seated
Speaker 3: shots out of a tree stand. But a lot of
Speaker 3: times when we're hunting new areas, we don't have that.
Speaker 3: We're not able to trim. You're going up in a
Speaker 3: tree that's not perfect. You know, you end up with
Speaker 3: a weird shot angle like this. You're you're off balance,
Speaker 3: you're bending down, you're hunching down. Those things are hard
Speaker 3: and realistically, how many guys practice that. We practice flat
Speaker 3: footed in the backyard at twenty thirty forty and then
Speaker 3: we go to wherever, Ohio, and you know, you get
Speaker 3: up in this tree and then you got this buck
Speaker 3: running down off the ridge and you can't trim and
Speaker 3: there he is at you know, twenty nine. You're trying to,
Speaker 3: you know, get a shot through like this, like those
Speaker 3: are the shots we get. And the way I look
Speaker 3: at is I have to train for that. I have
Speaker 3: to train and put myself through those types of scenarios
Speaker 3: if I'm going to be expected to do it, and
Speaker 3: the most high pressure moment of my season if I don't,
Speaker 3: of course I'm going to fail. Of Course I'm going
Speaker 3: to hit him high. Of course I'm going to hit
Speaker 3: him back. Of course I'm going to miss. Of course
Speaker 3: I'm going to rush the shot because I haven't tried
Speaker 3: it even once. So I've ingrained that into my routine,
Speaker 3: into that late summer routine where I am trying hard shots,
Speaker 3: things that are very challenging, challenging my balance, challenging my footing,
Speaker 3: shooting through holes, learning my trajectory. And that's kind of
Speaker 3: where I'm at right now with stuff. And Lisa always
Speaker 3: makes fun of me. She goes, what I said, I'm
Speaker 3: going to go shoot my bow, and she'll go, You're
Speaker 3: gonna go roll around in the grass again, because she
Speaker 3: comes out, she comes out on the deck and she
Speaker 3: sees me like I'm on my knees and I'm hunched
Speaker 3: over and I draw like this, and then I set
Speaker 3: up and shoot. You know, she calls it rolling around
Speaker 3: in the grass. So but but but that's that's my mindset,
Speaker 3: you know, that's my mindset. Is like I'm preparing for
Speaker 3: those scenarios. Like last year, I killed two bucks off
Speaker 3: the ground, one on my knees that I had to
Speaker 3: basically sneak through, you know, sneak through this hedgerow to
Speaker 3: get to got down on my knees, stopped him and
Speaker 3: came to full draw, all in one motion, and it
Speaker 3: was you know, it was a shot towards kind of
Speaker 3: the end of what I considered like my ethical extended range. There,
Speaker 3: you know, put a great shot on them. You know,
Speaker 3: if if if I don't train that stuff, I don't
Speaker 3: I don't have that opportunity, or if I take it,
Speaker 3: I did, something bad happens. So so then you know,
Speaker 3: during the season, you know, then I'm like, I'm kind
Speaker 3: of head down grinding through the season, but I will
Speaker 3: still make time to go out there check my marks.
Speaker 3: The bow is a machine. The bow, so the machine
Speaker 3: changes throughout the season, whether you think so or not.
Speaker 3: It does. You put it in the your truck and
Speaker 3: it's eighty five degrees in there, and then you pull
Speaker 3: it out and then you put it back in the
Speaker 3: string stretch. Now, if you're a twenty yard you know
Speaker 3: Mac shot or thirty yard max shot, you might not
Speaker 3: know it. You might it might change this much at
Speaker 3: a target that's not much. But when you're going out
Speaker 3: west where you might be hunting some of these mule
Speaker 3: deer or those antelope down there, it's like, you know,
Speaker 3: those are longer shots. You know, a two or three
Speaker 3: inch change at twenty thirty yards is a five six
Speaker 3: seven inch change out there. I've seen it happen. It's
Speaker 3: happened to me. So constantly checking those marks, making sure
Speaker 3: you're good, making sure your form and your execution is good.
Speaker 3: I do that kind of throughout the season, and then
Speaker 3: you know, when season ends, I just I start the
Speaker 3: whole thing all over again. And that is consistency. It's
Speaker 3: it in within all of that. That's kind of like
Speaker 3: working on myself. But throughout the year, hunting season, before
Speaker 3: hunting season, after hunting season, I am scout scouting as
Speaker 3: much as I can. Sometimes I get big windows where
Speaker 3: I can scout a ton, and I scout a ton,
Speaker 3: and then there's other times where there's a lot of
Speaker 3: family stuff and I can barely find time to get out,
Speaker 3: so I might scout for an hour, or I might
Speaker 3: go glassing for the last forty five minutes of daylight.
Speaker 3: What I try to do is prioritize windows of scouting
Speaker 3: when I make sure I get in what I feel
Speaker 3: like I need to to be successful, and that is
Speaker 3: postseason kind of you know, before spring green up, before
Speaker 3: you know, when the snow melts, before you know, like
Speaker 3: before it gets really thick with vegetation. That is a
Speaker 3: window where I feel I need to be out there.
Speaker 3: I need to gather some information. If I'm going to
Speaker 3: a new air or a new state that's going to
Speaker 3: be during the rut. I want to be able to
Speaker 3: look during that time because I can break it apart easily.
Speaker 3: I can see things easily, and things make very good
Speaker 3: sense to me. I can move into that area with
Speaker 3: really high confidence whether I find a good buck bed
Speaker 3: or whether it's going to be a rut hunt, and
Speaker 3: I can put myself in a situation where I think
Speaker 3: I have a high chance of success or in the rut,
Speaker 3: and then you know, through the rest of the summer,
Speaker 3: kind of like midsummer, it's not as important for me
Speaker 3: to get out, so I won't push it. I'll spend
Speaker 3: more time with the family. But when I do get
Speaker 3: those windows, I'll still go out. I'll tie up, you know,
Speaker 3: some loose ends that I wasn't able to get to.
Speaker 3: In that window where I prefer to get out, I
Speaker 3: can still gain some really good knowledge during that time.
Speaker 3: It's just a little harder because things are starting to
Speaker 3: thicken up. But that's not a time where I push
Speaker 3: to get out in the woods a lot. It's just
Speaker 3: not return on investment there, I think is lower. And
Speaker 3: then as I get closer to the beginning of the season,
Speaker 3: I have another window where I need to be out
Speaker 3: there if I want to get on a buck early.
Speaker 3: And that's like that those two two and a half
Speaker 3: weeks leading up to the season, that is a window
Speaker 3: where I will spend some time out glassing. I will
Speaker 3: put some cameras in spots where I can't glass. I
Speaker 3: will walk perimeter of some food sources, trying to you know,
Speaker 3: see if they're if I can cut a big track.
Speaker 3: I use those three methods there glassing where I can glass.
Speaker 3: If it sets up well for glassing, i'll glass. If
Speaker 3: it doesn't set up well for glassing, I'll use camera
Speaker 3: work and I'll put those down in those spots where
Speaker 3: I can't see or if it's too thick, and try
Speaker 3: to do you know, maybe a check before season. And
Speaker 3: then the other one is literally just kind of walking
Speaker 3: the perimeter of where you know, marsh meets meets food
Speaker 3: source or woods meets foods and cutting a track. And
Speaker 3: then a lot of times what I can do is
Speaker 3: I can look at a map, or I can scout
Speaker 3: my way back in, and I can get pretty darn
Speaker 3: good at anticipating where you know that buck is bedded.
Speaker 3: It may I might not have the exact bed, but
Speaker 3: I can a lot of times just from knowledge and experience,
Speaker 3: I can estimate that you know, he's probably writing here,
Speaker 3: and I can probably access through here, and I can
Speaker 3: probably set up here and have a realistic chance. If
Speaker 3: it's a higher pressure setting, I'm probably going to push
Speaker 3: back a little further. If it's a lower pressure setting
Speaker 3: like Kentucky or something, I might I might favor more
Speaker 3: towards the field or the food source. So these are
Speaker 3: all experiences that I've had, you know, in the past,
Speaker 3: and all these like things are going through my head.
Speaker 3: I'm really kind of relying on a lot of past
Speaker 3: experience and instinctual you know, instinctual feelings to make these decisions.
Speaker 3: But that's you know, and then throughout the season it's
Speaker 3: it's scout a lot, hunt when I can or when
Speaker 3: I think the time is right. So it's still very
Speaker 3: much scouting, heavy, hunt a little less. That has to
Speaker 3: do more with my schedule, not necessarily what I want
Speaker 3: to do, but that makes me all those things that
Speaker 3: I told you, and then that in season scouting and
Speaker 3: then those high percentage shits sits is what makes me
Speaker 3: pretty efficient unlimited time.
Speaker 2: So you talked about a lot of those things that
Speaker 2: you've done over your experiences over the years many years,
Speaker 2: have led to you now, you know, having the confidence
Speaker 2: to be able to pick apart a place or identify
Speaker 2: the spot within the spot when you find it or
Speaker 2: when you've cut that track, whatever it might be. So
Speaker 2: that's kind of alluding to your past history all adding
Speaker 2: up to where you are now. That led to me
Speaker 2: thinking about or leading me to be curious about something
Speaker 2: that has happened more recently for you. So I'm curious,
Speaker 2: is there anything over the last few years that has
Speaker 2: changed for you, a new belief, a new habit, a
Speaker 2: new behavior that's really improved things for you. Is there
Speaker 2: any recent thing that all of a sudden You've picked
Speaker 2: up and been like, ah, this this helps, or this
Speaker 2: new idea helps, or this new habit has made a difference.
Speaker 2: Anything come to mind.
Speaker 3: Well, a couple of I guess a couple of tactics
Speaker 3: come to mind that I've definitely done more frequently. I've
Speaker 3: done them in the past too, but as I alluded
Speaker 3: to kind of earlier we were talking about it, I
Speaker 3: didn't do it as much, you know, the ground hunting
Speaker 3: and decoy usage. I've been using a lot more. Mainly
Speaker 3: the ground hunting. We all know, like you know, setting
Speaker 3: up in you know, on the ground, you can set
Speaker 3: up on the ground just to give what a tree
Speaker 3: stand in like an ambush style situation. But I'm talking more,
Speaker 3: you know, I justin Wright and I we call it
Speaker 3: like slip hunting. So essentially, you'd be going into maybe
Speaker 3: it is an area familiar with and that's fine, or
Speaker 3: an area you're not familiar with and you're going in
Speaker 3: and you know what I would wear is like my
Speaker 3: tree saddle, and then I would have like a platform
Speaker 3: with a set of sticks strapped to my back like
Speaker 3: on a predator pack or something just very minimalistic, a
Speaker 3: bow rope and my bow. And what I'm doing is
Speaker 3: I'm kind of planning a route through there, through the
Speaker 3: terrain that I pick out ahead of time, and I'm
Speaker 3: moving through, still hunting, with the goal of you know
Speaker 3: a few things optimally, like the number one greatest thing
Speaker 3: would be to, oh, I get eyes on a buck,
Speaker 3: and now I'm in some sort of situation where I
Speaker 3: might be able to sneak closer, spot and stock or
Speaker 3: or just you know, get closer let him make the
Speaker 3: last move. That doesn't happen that often. It does sometimes,
Speaker 3: especially more open terrain, especially like if you're out, you know,
Speaker 3: during the rut or something, it could happen quite a
Speaker 3: bit that way because you're more active throughout the day.
Speaker 3: The other scenario where that's where that's really valuable is
Speaker 3: I'm slipping through and I'm scouting. I'm hunting, but I'm
Speaker 3: scouting and I come across the sign that tells me
Speaker 3: that this is a good spot, or maybe I should
Speaker 3: sit this now. Now I'm ready to go with my
Speaker 3: gear to hunt that sign if I if I feel
Speaker 3: like or I can, you know, kind of play off
Speaker 3: my instincts and see if I need, if I feel
Speaker 3: like I need to follow that sign back a little more.
Speaker 3: But by by having that confidence to go in there,
Speaker 3: you know, you might get a visual or you might
Speaker 3: come across the sign that tells you that this spot
Speaker 3: is worth hunting, or you might work through that whole area.
Speaker 3: Another thing that's not not bad at all, and I
Speaker 3: welcome this every time, is you actually bump a buck.
Speaker 3: You know, you bump a buck. Yeah, it sucks, you
Speaker 3: don't want necessarily want to do that, but now you
Speaker 3: know where one is, you know. And I wouldn't have
Speaker 3: known that if I didn't apply that tactic, that slip
Speaker 3: hunting tactic. So now I'm in the game with a buck.
Speaker 3: You know, maybe it's a soft bump and I can
Speaker 3: get them coming back. I've pulled that off a couple
Speaker 3: of times. Justin's pulled that off five or six times.
Speaker 3: Maybe you bump them a little harder and he goes
Speaker 3: over the ridge and it's like, okay, that's fine. Now
Speaker 3: I know the general area where this is, and we
Speaker 3: can play start playing that game. So all three of
Speaker 3: those things are good, right, All three of those things
Speaker 3: wouldn't have happened if I didn't apply that tactic. And
Speaker 3: then the last one is you work through that whole
Speaker 3: area and you don't see anything exciting, and you just
Speaker 3: write that area off. So when I started doing this more,
Speaker 3: it started putting me in front of big deer more often,
Speaker 3: It started creating situations for me, It started leading me
Speaker 3: towards sign that I never would have seen if I
Speaker 3: wasn't more kind of willing to go in there and
Speaker 3: aggressively scout those areas. Now, I'm not saying do this
Speaker 3: on your forty acres that you're leased out, that you
Speaker 3: have presets and you have a food plot planet. I'm
Speaker 3: not saying to do that. That wouldn't I don't think
Speaker 3: that would necessarily be appropriate. But you might be able
Speaker 3: to do it on a small scale, Like maybe there's
Speaker 3: a little pocket over here that you see, you know,
Speaker 3: see some tracks coming out of and you're like, what, man,
Speaker 3: I didn't even consider that. So you kind of go
Speaker 3: over there with you know, your mobile setup, and you
Speaker 3: follow the sign in and you're very careful. Obviously it's
Speaker 3: a smaller piece, so you're going to be much more
Speaker 3: delicate with your approach, and maybe you find a spot
Speaker 3: to sit up and capitalize on that. But like in
Speaker 3: an area where maybe you have a few different spots
Speaker 3: to hunt and they aren't out, and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try this spot. I'm gonna try this public
Speaker 3: piece or this permission piece that i'd never hunt, you know,
Speaker 3: and then you apply that that has opened up so
Speaker 3: many doors for me and all of those scenarios that
Speaker 3: I mentioned. I run into a buck, I see them,
Speaker 3: and I spot in stock that has happened. I come
Speaker 3: into a hot sign and I end up setting up
Speaker 3: right there. I've had that, I've had that work and
Speaker 3: end up shooting a buck. And then I've also bumped
Speaker 3: a buck and now I'm I'm in the game with
Speaker 3: that deer where I otherwise wouldn't have been. And then
Speaker 3: many times I scout my way through and I don't
Speaker 3: learn anything other than the lay of the land, you know.
Speaker 3: But maybe I see something that's like, hey, you know
Speaker 3: that doesn't have big bucks sign. But like man, I
Speaker 3: bumped fifteen or twenty different dos, Like I'm gonna come
Speaker 3: back here during the ruck. You know, all that's valuable
Speaker 3: and all that is is due to that kind of
Speaker 3: slip hunting style. And then I mentioned the decoy thing.
Speaker 3: The decoy thing has has really opened some doors for
Speaker 3: me kind of more in that open country. And I
Speaker 3: gained one of my biggest white tails. He's upstairs, but
Speaker 3: my biggest Michigan white tail. He was the biggest buck
Speaker 3: in the state, killed in two thousand and six with
Speaker 3: a bow, and I killed him over a decoy. And uh,
Speaker 3: it's it's crazy, like just like the old you know,
Speaker 3: three D style decoy, the Kerry light. I still have
Speaker 3: that decoy. I still use it, so I knew it
Speaker 3: can be effective, even though it's not as effective in
Speaker 3: Michigan in general. I knew it could be effective. But
Speaker 3: I had guys, my buddy Mark Jost, He's killed fifty
Speaker 3: big white tails over decoys. I don't even know how many.
Speaker 3: It's insane. You see what Jared Scheffler's done, Jesse Coots,
Speaker 3: you know, out in Kansas with his decoy. And I
Speaker 3: start seeing these guys, I'm like, Okay, you know there
Speaker 3: is something here. There is something here to this that
Speaker 3: I am missing. Out on. So I, you know, bought
Speaker 3: some some more mobile type decoys and I've been using
Speaker 3: them more in the last few years and that has
Speaker 3: really created some awesome hunts. I've shot uh two deer
Speaker 3: using those. I missed my target buck last year, you know,
Speaker 3: in a snowstorm. It was like a white out snowstorm
Speaker 3: in November. It was just weird. It like blew in
Speaker 3: for like twenty minutes, and I'm just like, you know,
Speaker 3: looking down. My bow's white. I'm all white, and I'm
Speaker 3: looking out into this field and I can't see anything.
Speaker 3: And then all of a sudden, I look up and
Speaker 3: my decoys out there, and there's this big old buck
Speaker 3: like right at it. And I'm like, holy smokes, you know.
Speaker 3: And I come to full draw. And as I'm at
Speaker 3: full draw, I look and I see like all that
Speaker 3: white down my arrow, and I'm like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: you know. So I'm trying to decide, like is this
Speaker 3: going to affect my arrow? And I didn't want to
Speaker 3: make any changes, so I put the pin right on
Speaker 3: him and I shot my arrow went right into the dirt.
Speaker 3: I ended up shooting that buck later on, like about
Speaker 3: a week later, from the ground spot in stock, So
Speaker 3: it's created just a new excitement level, you know, and
Speaker 3: that kind of that open country. And what I found
Speaker 3: is like some of the areas I hunt that are
Speaker 3: really open. I think that that's a huge advantage to
Speaker 3: have that. So last year I was after that buck.
Speaker 3: He's over there somewhere, but I was after that buck
Speaker 3: several times, and I kept seeing him out in the open,
Speaker 3: and I always had that decoy with me. I made
Speaker 3: a post it's a heads up decoy, and I always
Speaker 3: had that thing with me. So I had my bow
Speaker 3: in one hand, this in one hand, and I was
Speaker 3: always on the ground, and I was always sneaking around,
Speaker 3: slipping around because he was very visual, but he was
Speaker 3: always out in the open and he was just where
Speaker 3: I couldn't get to him. So that decoy played a
Speaker 3: really key role in drawing him into bow range. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I would say I would say those two things. Adopting
Speaker 3: those two strategies have you know, over the last five
Speaker 3: seven years, I've gained a lot of confidence in those
Speaker 3: and they've made me a better hunter, more versatile type
Speaker 3: hunter for sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Goes back to what you said about that versatility,
Speaker 2: like the if you are a one trick pony. You
Speaker 2: are vulnerable, right if if there's only one place you
Speaker 2: can get it done or one way you can get
Speaker 2: it done. Inevitably, in a hunting season, there are going
Speaker 2: to be times when that thing's not going to work out,
Speaker 2: where something changes and your spot isn't what it was,
Speaker 2: or your tactic isn't what it was. You have to
Speaker 2: have more tools in the toolbox, and you are a
Speaker 2: really good example of that. I want to shift a
Speaker 2: little bit towards three kind of and intangibles. But the
Speaker 2: more I think about it, I think they might be
Speaker 2: the three or at least in my mind maybe the
Speaker 2: three most important intangibles for consistent deer hunting success. Those
Speaker 2: three things being hard work or your work ethic, number
Speaker 2: two mental toughness, and number three decision making. Like those
Speaker 2: three things, work ethic, mental toughness, and decision making, I
Speaker 2: think form a huge part of what makes anyone successful.
Speaker 2: So I'd like to walk through each one of those
Speaker 2: with you to understand how you look at those three things.
Speaker 2: And so maybe let's start with work ethic or hard
Speaker 2: work in the context of deer hunting. Andy, how would
Speaker 2: you how would you define hard work as a deer hunter,
Speaker 2: How would you illustrate that in your own life? Like,
Speaker 2: what does hard work look like for you? Because we
Speaker 2: all talk about you gotta work hard, right that all
Speaker 2: the time. But I think what we might think when
Speaker 2: we hear someone say that versus what it actually looks
Speaker 2: like on the ground for the very most successful deer
Speaker 2: hunters probably looks a little bit different. And you've given
Speaker 2: us some examples already, But could you elaborate a little
Speaker 2: bit in your life, in your deer hunting world hard work?
Speaker 2: What does it look like? What does it mean?
Speaker 3: I think you know when you hear hard work, you're
Speaker 3: thinking like, you know, sweating and you know you're using
Speaker 3: your your strength or your endurance and you know you're
Speaker 3: out of breath. That certainly comes into play, you know
Speaker 3: at certain times for sure. But like hard work, to me,
Speaker 3: deer hunting a lot is just being consistent with your
Speaker 3: effort that is going to eventually end in a successful result.
Speaker 3: So to me, hard work could be you know, I
Speaker 3: can't get out today, but I'm gonna sit at my
Speaker 3: computer and there's this book I'm gonna I'm gonna target
Speaker 3: in twenty twenty four. I'm gonna go through all of
Speaker 3: the the data I have on him, all the sightings,
Speaker 3: all the trail camera data, and I'm gonna see if
Speaker 3: I can come up with some patterns something that will
Speaker 3: help me. Hard work could be staying consistent, you know,
Speaker 3: going out and shooting your boat constantly. The guy that
Speaker 3: the guy that does that and does that properly, I mean,
Speaker 3: he's he's going to be at an advantage when that
Speaker 3: that opportunity comes. Hard work could be you know, going
Speaker 3: out if you have your eighty acres and you're out
Speaker 3: there in the summer and you're trimming your spots so
Speaker 3: that all of your shooting lanes are clear and you're
Speaker 3: gonna have good clear shots. Your stands are set, everything
Speaker 3: is prepped. You know, you got mock scrapes sit in,
Speaker 3: you got your cameras out, you got all this stuff
Speaker 3: ready to go, and you've you've done the work. You've
Speaker 3: set the stage for a successful season. And you know,
Speaker 3: maybe for a more public land oriented guy, it's you've
Speaker 3: done sufficient scouting. You've scouted you know this piece and
Speaker 3: this piece and this piece. You've narrowed it down to
Speaker 3: you know, your three or four spots on here that
Speaker 3: you're going to focus on during the rut, and then
Speaker 3: you know over here this spot had a big buck
Speaker 3: early season, and you're trying to learn as much as
Speaker 3: you can about him. You're in there, You're you're figuring
Speaker 3: out all right, I knew he was betted on this ridge,
Speaker 3: and okay, I found a bet on this point. And
Speaker 3: here's the oak, the oak flat down here at the bottom,
Speaker 3: and looks like he might cross down here at the bottom.
Speaker 3: This seems like a good funnel. Like you're you're you're
Speaker 3: constantly working at setting yourself up for success. I mean,
Speaker 3: all of those things, to me are are hard work.
Speaker 3: Like hard work can just be showing up consistently in
Speaker 3: a manner that is going to set yourself up for success.
Speaker 3: And yeah, I mean I've been on some hunts where
Speaker 3: hard work is you're beating your body to a bloody
Speaker 3: pulp to get you know, up a mountain into this
Speaker 3: basin that is, you know, three ridge lines over you know,
Speaker 3: maybe if you're you're hunting elk or you're hunting mule
Speaker 3: deer or something like that, that's hard work. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's something not a lot of people can do. But
Speaker 3: it's it's interesting though, too, because like I've seen guys
Speaker 3: do that that aren't necessarily like fit. They're just they're
Speaker 3: they're tough, you know, They're just tough and they don't quit.
Speaker 3: So that is a big intangible there of just being
Speaker 3: mentally tough and not quitting and being able to do
Speaker 3: kind of whatever it takes and take your lumps. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know. I would say that hard work could
Speaker 3: be a lot of different things, but it's really if
Speaker 3: you see the guys that are real successful at the
Speaker 3: highest level, you know, and I'm not I'm not. I'm
Speaker 3: talking about guys that can you could pretty much throw
Speaker 3: them anywhere and they're going to have success. It's something
Speaker 3: that they do in some way, shape or form a
Speaker 3: year round. They're doing something almost year round. Yeah, they
Speaker 3: might take breaks to do bass fishing, they might take
Speaker 3: breaks to do some fly fishing. But they're still working out,
Speaker 3: they're still running, they're still shooting their ball, they're still
Speaker 3: you know, when they get a minute, they're getting online
Speaker 3: and looking at that Kansas piece of public in Kansas
Speaker 3: where they're going to be in November. It's just it's
Speaker 3: a consistent focus on that, uh, in different ways that
Speaker 3: it's going to set yourself up for success. So it
Speaker 3: doesn't necessarily mean you're like killing yourself physically. It could be,
Speaker 3: like I said, as little as you know, sitting down
Speaker 3: and breaking down some data. To me, that is all
Speaker 3: hard work, it's all consistency, and it all leads to success.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's a lot of times where like guys
Speaker 3: will just physically outwork guys. Maybe you're on you know,
Speaker 3: you're on a hunt, and this guy is going in early,
Speaker 3: he's sitting all day, he's you know, he's hiking a
Speaker 3: mile and a half back. He's putting in way more
Speaker 3: work than this guy that's kind of sleeping in. He's dragging,
Speaker 3: you know, he's kind of walking out in gray light.
Speaker 3: He comes back in at nine and I saw a
Speaker 3: couple of dos, you know, both still hunting the same area,
Speaker 3: both still on the same hunt. But there's one guy
Speaker 3: that's clearly outworking the other. And that's the guy that
Speaker 3: deserves the success. You know, it should be the guy
Speaker 3: that puts in more time, more effort, you know, is
Speaker 3: a little more creative with his thinking, a little more focused.
Speaker 3: Those guys should come out on top. That's the way
Speaker 3: it's supposed to be.
Speaker 4: So so, so what about the not the flip side,
Speaker 4: but kind of the cousin of that, the mental side
Speaker 4: of that.
Speaker 2: So mental toughness, how would you how would you describe
Speaker 2: that and what in what ways do you find that
Speaker 2: to be important for you?
Speaker 3: That's real important with bow hunting because in bow hunting
Speaker 3: you fail a lot, and it's hard. You know, bow
Speaker 3: hunting is hard. Even these days with these you know,
Speaker 3: these compound bos and all this technology, it's still hard, man,
Speaker 3: it is really hard. You start throwing in some difficult states,
Speaker 3: older age class, dear, different species, and it's hard. And
Speaker 3: you have to be able to accept the failure and
Speaker 3: not let it affect you to the point where it's
Speaker 3: going to lead into another mistake or another failure. You
Speaker 3: have to learn from it and try to improve, you know,
Speaker 3: if you made the mistake and stay positive and just
Speaker 3: keep moving forward, keep trying to improve, keep trying to
Speaker 3: eliminate those mistakes. It's staying consistent, you know, Like I
Speaker 3: mentioned the gym thing, you know, that's that's mental toughness.
Speaker 3: You know, it's like being able to override yourself, override
Speaker 3: that comfort, override what you'd rather do for something that
Speaker 3: you should do that's going to make you better, make
Speaker 3: you healthier, improve your life, improve your mood, improve your hunting.
Speaker 3: That's mental toughness. I mean, it's it's you're pushing through
Speaker 3: kind of that weak voice that you have. You know,
Speaker 3: you know, you're on day seven of the rut. You've
Speaker 3: you've hunted all day, you know, six out of seven days,
Speaker 3: and you're just like, oh my gosh, and you you know,
Speaker 3: you force yourself to get up and get out there,
Speaker 3: and then you're rewarded with the buck, you know, the
Speaker 3: buck that you've been after. That's mental toughness. I think
Speaker 3: you know that comes into play big time with bow hunting,
Speaker 3: because we you are going to fail. You're gonna fail
Speaker 3: a ton, you're gonna miss, You're gonna wound it, You're
Speaker 3: gonna wound animals. You're gonna feel like a piece of crap.
Speaker 3: You're gonna feel like you suck. I feel I feel
Speaker 3: like I suck every hunting season. At some point every
Speaker 3: hunting season, I feel like I'm not sure if I'm
Speaker 3: going to kill another deer in my life. I seriously
Speaker 3: feel that. I literally feel that, and uh, there's times
Speaker 3: where I'll be out there I'll be like, how did
Speaker 3: I ever get an arrow in one of these? How
Speaker 3: did I ever do it? And then then it happens.
Speaker 3: You know, the playbook that I follow works. You know,
Speaker 3: it does work, but you are going to fail. You're
Speaker 3: gonna fall on your face. You just have to pick
Speaker 3: yourself up, not let it beat you up too bad.
Speaker 3: I do think making You know, big mistakes are are
Speaker 3: as painful as they are, they're good because it's usually
Speaker 3: those big ones that hurt or that affect you so deeply.
Speaker 3: Those are the you usually the ones that spark the
Speaker 3: biggest change. Those are the ones that are like, Okay,
Speaker 3: enough is enough. I'm not doing that again, you know,
Speaker 3: And yes, you screwed up on that one buck, but
Speaker 3: it ends up getting you ten other ones down the road.
Speaker 3: So give yourself some grace, be patient with yourself. You're
Speaker 3: gonna make mistakes, let them roll off your back, but
Speaker 3: use them, you know, don't. There's value in those, so
Speaker 3: you have to use those. And if you don't, if
Speaker 3: you don't even think about it, you're like, oh, you know,
Speaker 3: there's bad luck or whatever, and you don't. You don't
Speaker 3: think about it, you don't try to correct it, you
Speaker 3: don't think about why that dear did this, or why
Speaker 3: did I do that? You know what happened, what went wrong,
Speaker 3: It's going to happen again, And just that mindset in
Speaker 3: general overall over the long term, it makes you deadly.
Speaker 3: You know, it makes you very, very deadly because then
Speaker 3: you start to you know, eliminate some of those options
Speaker 3: that could go wrong, mitigate them as much as you can,
Speaker 3: and then you know you're just set up for success
Speaker 3: much more, you know, with that type of mindset.
Speaker 2: So true. So then the last of these key intangibles
Speaker 2: then decision making. So you've got to put in the
Speaker 2: hard work to put yourself in position for success. You
Speaker 2: need to have the mental toughness to deal with adversity,
Speaker 2: to maintain consistency, to be out there in the right mindset.
Speaker 2: But then decision making. This is kind of in the
Speaker 2: day to day when you're deciding what do I do today?
Speaker 2: How do I handle the situation? Where do I go?
Speaker 2: When do I hunt? Which deer? Do I hunt? Which
Speaker 2: tree do I hunt? While you're working your way through
Speaker 2: the woods and you're scouting, do I stop here or
Speaker 2: do I keep going? Is this the spot? Is this
Speaker 2: not the spot? I find myself every season so many
Speaker 2: different times in that scenario, in one of those scenarios
Speaker 2: with my mental gears turning and turning, and I'm a
Speaker 2: thinker and sometimes as an overthinker, and and you know,
Speaker 2: it's kind of torture in the moment sometimes or I'm
Speaker 2: up all night thinking about what should I do. So
Speaker 2: it's both my favorite thing and and my least favorite
Speaker 2: thing about hunting. Maybe is that part, but mostly my favorite.
Speaker 2: So I'm curious with you, what does your what does
Speaker 2: your decision making process look like in any one of
Speaker 2: those scenarios. How do you weigh the costs and benefits
Speaker 2: or the pros and cons or this spot versus that spot?
Speaker 2: You know, because there's a thousand different decisions we need
Speaker 2: to make over the course of a deer hunting season,
Speaker 2: and oftentimes they're very important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, this is a good one because I know
Speaker 3: you are that type. You have that type of brain,
Speaker 3: and you are that that person that really thinks and
Speaker 3: can fall into overthinking to the point where you're frozen
Speaker 3: almost And you know I am I'm probably well, I'm
Speaker 3: definitely different than that, but I can relate to that
Speaker 3: because I do love data, and I have collected a
Speaker 3: lot of data over the years to look for trends
Speaker 3: and stuff. But what I've really found that's been helpful
Speaker 3: to me is that I've learned just to kind of
Speaker 3: rely on my gut and rely on my instincts. And
Speaker 3: I enjoy that much more than being kind of overwhelmed
Speaker 3: with information and data. And I still like data because
Speaker 3: it's great for learning, and you could plug that in
Speaker 3: and it can still kind of affect those instincts. But
Speaker 3: you know, these develop over time, and I think you know,
Speaker 3: you have a lot of experience, a lot of different areas.
Speaker 3: I think you'd be surprised if you tapped into those
Speaker 3: a little more just how effective you can be. We've
Speaker 3: we've kind of these days with with trail cameras and
Speaker 3: glassing and cell cameras and you know, software that breaks
Speaker 3: this down and that we've it's made it possible to
Speaker 3: just you know, gather a lot of data, even real
Speaker 3: time data, to the point where we're getting away from
Speaker 3: our instincts that we literally have inside us to pursue
Speaker 3: these critters. So I've learned to really kind of tap
Speaker 3: into those, and it's something that's evolved over time. They
Speaker 3: were very non existent, you know when I started, and
Speaker 3: you know, slowly over time, through mistakes, through failures, recalculating
Speaker 3: trying something you know that didn't work, like you said,
Speaker 3: yet I went too far. I should have stopped there
Speaker 3: and I didn't, or I didn't go far enough and
Speaker 3: there he goes out of range. You know, your instincts
Speaker 3: are constantly like recalculating, you know, over time. It's a
Speaker 3: long term play, it's it's a long game. But when
Speaker 3: you learn to trust those, eventually they start to come
Speaker 3: through for you more. You know, And those feelings you have,
Speaker 3: those gut feelings you have, those are pulled from old
Speaker 3: experiences that are telling you like push in a little more,
Speaker 3: you know, or pull back a little bit more, or
Speaker 3: you can you know, you can, you can do this.
Speaker 3: You know, I feel like I need to go in there.
Speaker 3: I'm scared going there. I don't want to bump them,
Speaker 3: but I feel like I should. You know, those are
Speaker 3: those intuitions that you're getting are those are your instincts
Speaker 3: trying to tell you to do something, and they're not
Speaker 3: always right, but the more you trust them, they automatically
Speaker 3: subconsciously recalculate over time. And you know, like I said,
Speaker 3: they were non existent when I started I started to
Speaker 3: develop them once. You know, once in a while they
Speaker 3: were right, and most of the time they were wrong,
Speaker 3: you know, in the next stage and then the next stage,
Speaker 3: it's like I started, and are you know, trusting them
Speaker 3: a little more, and you know, sometimes they're right, sometimes
Speaker 3: they're wrong. And now whenever I get in a situation
Speaker 3: like that where I'm I'm at a crossroads, I just
Speaker 3: I just follow that gut feeling, you know, and a
Speaker 3: lot of times I'll just my whole hunt will just
Speaker 3: go off feelings and reacting to what's in front of
Speaker 3: me or you know, relying on those instincts to kick
Speaker 3: in to kind of guide me. And they're still wrong
Speaker 3: all the time, but they're all right. They're right enough
Speaker 3: to put me in front of big animals consistently. And
Speaker 3: I love that. I love being that type of feel hunter,
Speaker 3: that that feels you know, these these these uh, these
Speaker 3: instincts kick in. I think I've heard a couple hunters
Speaker 3: talk about this, and it's not talked about very much.
Speaker 3: One of them is Jared Scheffler. We we we talked
Speaker 3: on the phone. We geek out about this because him
Speaker 3: and I are we have that same mindset in a way,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of like in between, like sort of where
Speaker 3: you're at and where he is. But I can very
Speaker 3: much tap into that, especially when I go out of state.
Speaker 3: Like sometimes I will go out of state and I
Speaker 3: will purposely go out there in the spring, and I
Speaker 3: will scout this piece and this piece and this piece,
Speaker 3: and now I narrow it down to these two pieces,
Speaker 3: and I got these three or four spots on this property,
Speaker 3: and I'm ready to go for the run. Sometimes I
Speaker 3: don't even want to do that. I want to show
Speaker 3: up with no information because then I'm able to tap
Speaker 3: into that, you know, I'm able to tap into that
Speaker 3: instinct and go into that blind and try to come
Speaker 3: out with an animal, you know, in a span of
Speaker 3: you know, a few days or or week or whatever
Speaker 3: it is. So I purposely give myself opportunities to build
Speaker 3: that into to work on that, and to tap into that.
Speaker 3: But information is good too, Like that has led to
Speaker 3: a lot of animals, you know, Tarok Cama data, I
Speaker 3: glass him, I see what he's doing. I'm moving in
Speaker 3: like that. You're you're you're going out and you're gathering
Speaker 3: that intel and then you're moving in right at the
Speaker 3: right moment. A lot of my dear come from that too,
Speaker 3: So I think it's easy to get really frozen or
Speaker 3: caught up the second guessing things. But I always tell
Speaker 3: hunters like err on the side of aggressive aggression. Aggressive
Speaker 3: decisions have paid off for me much more than laying
Speaker 3: back and being passive. Sometimes that's the move. You know.
Speaker 3: You and I have shared a lot of stories where
Speaker 3: I've figured out, you know, or I determined the move
Speaker 3: is to actually just plant myself here, be patient and
Speaker 3: wait for that buck to come by. And I was
Speaker 3: able to do that successfully. So sometimes that is the mood,
Speaker 3: but the move. But when you are aggressive, like when
Speaker 3: you're coming up, I always say take chances, because when
Speaker 3: you take chances, you are you're you're you're kind of
Speaker 3: forcing these situations a little bit. But then you're starting
Speaker 3: to figure out what works and what doesn't work. You're
Speaker 3: you're getting into the action, and yes, you blew it,
Speaker 3: but now next time, you know, maybe you don't go
Speaker 3: in quite as far or make maybe you make a different, different,
Speaker 3: different move in that similar situation. So you're you're calculating
Speaker 3: those instincts through experience, where if you're the guy that's
Speaker 3: so fearful that's so scared to bump his back and
Speaker 3: he's always sitting way back, like a lot of times
Speaker 3: he's not even observing that or he's not even getting
Speaker 3: those encounters. So having that more aggressive approach is more
Speaker 3: of a fast track in my opinion, to become a
Speaker 3: better ball hunter. It doesn't mean be reckless, but it
Speaker 3: means go for it, man, go for it, get in there,
Speaker 3: try to get as close as you can. Go for that.
Speaker 3: If you feel like it's right, do it. Don't always
Speaker 3: just sit back. Sometimes the play is sit back, observe.
Speaker 3: I love to do that, but I'm also aggressive when
Speaker 3: I think that's the and I've always been a pretty
Speaker 3: aggressive hunter, and I blew things a lot. I screwed
Speaker 3: up a lot by being aggressive. But like I said,
Speaker 3: now I've learned to tame that back when I need
Speaker 3: to tame it back, and I've learned to hit the
Speaker 3: gas when I need to hit the gas, and it's
Speaker 3: made me pretty efficient. So I rely on those instincts.
Speaker 3: I know it kind of sounds like hocus pocusy, but
Speaker 3: they're there. They are there. You just have to you
Speaker 3: just have to listen to them and trust them. And
Speaker 3: that's the thing trust them. They're gonna be wrong more
Speaker 3: than they're going to be right. When you're starting off
Speaker 3: over time, you're gonna notice like, damn, I made the
Speaker 3: right move. You know, Like you get these feelings and
Speaker 3: all of a sudden you start they start panning out
Speaker 3: for you, and then you know, next thing, you know,
Speaker 3: it's twenty five thirty years down the road, and like
Speaker 3: you're able to operate on those a lot, especially like
Speaker 3: when you get thrown into you know, you on these
Speaker 3: out of state trips, you've never been there before, you're
Speaker 3: in new country. It's like that's what you're dealing with.
Speaker 3: You know. I don't like using trail cameras out of
Speaker 3: state because I like to just go in and figure
Speaker 3: it out and use those instincts to get me on deer,
Speaker 3: and you know, it can really be an effective way
Speaker 3: to hunt. So I always try to encourage guys to
Speaker 3: tap into that and really kind of trust those feelings
Speaker 3: when you get them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and to tie it all together. You know that
Speaker 2: that instinctual voice, as you said, it comes from experience. Right.
Speaker 2: The more time you have out there doing these things,
Speaker 2: trying these things, the stronger those instincts become. The stronger
Speaker 2: that instinctual voice becomes. But the way to speed that
Speaker 2: up is to do the thing you said, which is
Speaker 2: to air towards aggressiveness. Like the only way to build
Speaker 2: that experience that builds your instincts is to be aggressive,
Speaker 2: put yourself in the mix enough to make mistakes, to
Speaker 2: learn the lessons, to see the thing to be in
Speaker 2: the game, And that is like the way to speed
Speaker 2: up that learning process. Probably nothing has made a bigger
Speaker 2: difference for me in the last five years than is
Speaker 2: that very thing. Just beginning to push the envelope. Get
Speaker 2: more aggressive, try the crazy thing, try the new thing,
Speaker 2: do the thing that Man, it's going to be a
Speaker 2: home run or it's going to be you know, striking out,
Speaker 2: but you're never going to know unless you try it.
Speaker 2: And like you said, plenty of times it doesn't work,
Speaker 2: but you learn something. And then one out of ten
Speaker 2: times it does work and you hit the home run.
Speaker 2: But the nine other times you're learning a great lesson
Speaker 2: that maybe would not have been possible if you hung
Speaker 2: way out in the edge and never tried anything.
Speaker 3: So exactly, huge, huge, yeah, that huge, ben So you know,
Speaker 3: I'm just like you. I have a ton of friends
Speaker 3: like that, are you know, real serious about hunting? And
Speaker 3: because I have that that more aggressive approach I have,
Speaker 3: I have way more encounters each season than you know,
Speaker 3: all my friends. You know, it's because i have more
Speaker 3: of that fearless mindset that I'm willing to go in
Speaker 3: and make the mistake. I'm willing to go in and
Speaker 3: potentially blow it up. And that's why I have more
Speaker 3: successes because I'm I'm putting myself in those situations more
Speaker 3: and I'm willing to go in there more. Now with
Speaker 3: that said, I make more mistakes than all of them too.
Speaker 3: I screw up more than all of them. Like, well,
Speaker 3: you know, we'll get on our texting thread. I have
Speaker 3: a couple of different groups of guys that I talk to,
Speaker 3: like I am screwing up more, I'm blowing more dear out,
Speaker 3: but I'm also having more encounters. I'm also in the
Speaker 3: game constantly, So it's it's a it is. But like
Speaker 3: you said, the more you put yourself in there, you
Speaker 3: also get better in that situation. Like how do you
Speaker 3: how do you get good on the ground, like sneaking
Speaker 3: into a Bucks betting area and you know, and staying
Speaker 3: undetected and maybe getting an arrow in them. Well, you
Speaker 3: don't get good at it by never doing it. You
Speaker 3: get gooding at it, get good at it and have
Speaker 3: confidence in it by trying it and failing, trying it
Speaker 3: and failing, trying at it again and almost getting him,
Speaker 3: trying it again and getting him. You know, it takes
Speaker 3: that mindset that I'm willing to burn a few bridges
Speaker 3: to gain a skill, to gain a confidence, to get
Speaker 3: more encounters down the road, and that does. It comes
Speaker 3: with time, you know. And I do have that confidence
Speaker 3: where if I screw one up, I know I can
Speaker 3: probably get on another one. And to be honest with
Speaker 3: you too, Mark, it's like I've killed a lot of deer,
Speaker 3: like I've killed you know, I'm satisfied with my hunting career.
Speaker 3: I've killed a lot of deer, and yes, I want
Speaker 3: to kill more deer. I want to have more experiences.
Speaker 3: But like if I if I had a season where
Speaker 3: I didn't kill anything, yeah I would, you know, I'd
Speaker 3: be probably hard on myself or whatever. But like I
Speaker 3: I've I've had a long road of success and experiences.
Speaker 3: I'm very satisfied and I want to continue that and
Speaker 3: I want to continue to build and if I screw up,
Speaker 3: and I screw up on a big deer. I don't
Speaker 3: care if it's if any of it, I screw up
Speaker 3: on the biggest dear of my life. Like, I'm going
Speaker 3: to be fine. You know, I've I've had a lot
Speaker 3: of experience, I've I've done well, and that's not everybody's
Speaker 3: situation yet, you know, So I understand why some guys
Speaker 3: are a little more cautious, a little more fearful. But
Speaker 3: I think it does pay off just to kind of
Speaker 3: have that more go for an attitude. But but realize
Speaker 3: it's not reckless. Aggressiveness and reckless are not the same thing,
Speaker 3: you know, don't be reckless. Still use your brain, Still
Speaker 3: use your smart your you're you know, be smart. Try
Speaker 3: to make good decisions, but maybe push the envelope a
Speaker 3: little more, because when you're pushing the limits, then you
Speaker 3: start to you learn what the limits are, and when
Speaker 3: you don't push the limits, you don't know what the
Speaker 3: limits are. You might have, you know, someone listening to this,
Speaker 3: you might have way more skill potential than me or
Speaker 3: Jesse or Jared Scheffler or Mark or whoever. You might
Speaker 3: have that inside you, but you won't know that unless
Speaker 3: you you push those limits. You have to test yourself.
Speaker 3: You have to try to do things that maybe haven't
Speaker 3: been done or maybe don't seem like they can be done.
Speaker 3: I've done things, pulled things off that I'm like, how
Speaker 3: did that happen? You know? But the thing is, I
Speaker 3: just put myself there in that situation, and you know,
Speaker 3: made some good decisions that felt like I should make
Speaker 3: them in that moment, and it pays off. So I
Speaker 3: don't know, I guess that would be you know, that
Speaker 3: would be my advice.
Speaker 2: Really really good stuff. I want to end with some
Speaker 2: rapid fire questions, so you get like like a line
Speaker 2: or two to answer every one of these thirty seconds
Speaker 2: or less. All right, so just like first thought, real
Speaker 2: quick answer, and we're going to move through a bunch
Speaker 2: of these and then tie tie a bow on this thing.
Speaker 2: So first, this one's a hard pivot from some of
Speaker 2: the other things we've been talking about, but I think
Speaker 2: it poses an interesting counterpoint to a lot of what
Speaker 2: we talked about because I think a lot of folks,
Speaker 2: especially newer folks, think that they're deer hunting woes or
Speaker 2: they're deer hunting dreams can be you know, found with
Speaker 2: like a silver bullet. Right, if I just buy this thing,
Speaker 2: it'll make all the difference. If I just have the
Speaker 2: very best of this, that and the other thing, I'll
Speaker 2: be able to kill a big deer like Andy. And
Speaker 2: usually that's not the case. But gear is important. You
Speaker 2: talked about the fact that you obsess over your gear
Speaker 2: and tweaking things and making sure you get the right
Speaker 2: setup and whatnot. So two geary questions here. One, what
Speaker 2: purchase of one hundred dollars or less? So, what very
Speaker 2: inexpensive purchase have you made that actually does make a
Speaker 2: big difference for you or has been very positively impactful.
Speaker 2: So what's one thing under one hundred dollars that actually
Speaker 2: was Like, man, that little thing made a big difference.
Speaker 3: For me personally, and this would probably help a lot
Speaker 3: of people out there, or would be like a Hinge release.
Speaker 3: You can get a used Hinge release that will teach
Speaker 3: you, you know, a good way to execute the shot, that
Speaker 3: will help you maybe beat some bad habits if you
Speaker 3: have them that's made you know. You could say a
Speaker 3: Hinge release or maybe a Resistance release you used to
Speaker 3: use one. I think those, you know, some of those
Speaker 3: can get pretty expensive. That's why I said a Hinge release,
Speaker 3: because you can get one of those for under a
Speaker 3: hundred bucks, especially like one that's a few years old.
Speaker 3: I got a couple over there I got for like
Speaker 3: eighty bucks. So yeah, that that would be that had
Speaker 3: has made a big impact for me and just being
Speaker 3: able to execute a good shot, not rush the shot,
Speaker 3: and it has translated into much better hunting success for me.
Speaker 3: And that moment of truth, uh, getting away from that
Speaker 3: cheap index figure where I was punching the trigger. So
Speaker 3: that's the that's the thing that comes to mind. I mean,
Speaker 3: under one hundred bucks, it's hard. You know, there's certain
Speaker 3: things that I think are really key, like uh, you know,
Speaker 3: binoculars and stuff, but that would be tough to get
Speaker 3: that under a hundred bucks.
Speaker 2: So well, okay, So then that leads us to the
Speaker 2: next question, which would again moving along here, if you
Speaker 2: had to give up all of your fancy high end
Speaker 2: gear like I know you've got You've got a great bow,
Speaker 2: great buyos, great clothing, you know, the great saddle platform
Speaker 2: like all that stuff. I know, you've got a lot
Speaker 2: of things that you put a lot of value in
Speaker 2: and that you've invested in. If you had to give
Speaker 2: it all up and go back to beginner like entry
Speaker 2: level Walmart everything, Walmart clothes, Walmart buyos, Walmart release, Walmart bow,
Speaker 2: everything except for one category. You could keep your high end,
Speaker 2: top tier one thing, so you could. You can keep
Speaker 2: your high end bow, you can keep your high end closed,
Speaker 2: you keep your high end optus. Whatever. What's the one
Speaker 2: thing or the one category that you would choose in
Speaker 2: which you really did still want to keep that top tier,
Speaker 2: big investment.
Speaker 3: I certainly would not want to be hunting with a
Speaker 3: Walmart bow that's for damn sure, or Walmart arrows. I
Speaker 3: kind of gravitate towards the weapon, because you know that's
Speaker 3: the thing we're using to actually put the projectile through
Speaker 3: the animal. I can. I could still kill deer off
Speaker 3: the ground. I could still kill deer with a cheap
Speaker 3: tree stand. I could still kill deer with cheap binoculars,
Speaker 3: a cheap release. But some of those cheaper bows and
Speaker 3: arrows they're just really poor quality. I think then you
Speaker 3: kind of getting into more of like a The way
Speaker 3: I think about it is more of like an ethical thing.
Speaker 3: You know, I would want the weapon, the weapon I have,
Speaker 3: I would want that to be. It doesn't need to
Speaker 3: be top of the line, but I wouldn't want Walmart level.
Speaker 3: I would want that to be probably my upgraded piece
Speaker 3: of equipment, just because that is the that's the thing
Speaker 3: that's going to be actually attempting to kill the animal,
Speaker 3: and I would want that to be as good a
Speaker 3: quality as I could get it.
Speaker 2: All Right, last three, real quick here, what's the most
Speaker 2: common trait, mindset or habit that you see across all
Speaker 2: of the best deer hunters. So one most consistent thing
Speaker 2: across the best of the best deer hunters. You know,
Speaker 2: what would you say that.
Speaker 3: Is most of the the most of the successful hunters
Speaker 3: I see, It's it's a it's a year long process.
Speaker 3: It's not like hunting season. The guys that are really
Speaker 3: getting it done, they have almost year round thought process
Speaker 3: or focus that revolves a lot around hunting. They seem
Speaker 3: to be real detail oriented, whether it's like whether it's
Speaker 3: gear or or scouting or trail camera work or habitat
Speaker 3: work or you know, covering new ground. It's it everyone
Speaker 3: that I know that's really good. They're doing something almost
Speaker 3: year round. They're archery. It's not just a pick up
Speaker 3: your bow, right before the season. Okay, now I'm gonna
Speaker 3: start thinking about deer. Oh you know where am I
Speaker 3: gonna hunt this year? It's it's it's as soon as
Speaker 3: the season ends, they're planning for the next one and
Speaker 3: in that next book, and uh, that's that's I would.
Speaker 2: Say that, Yeah, all right. What is one commonly held
Speaker 2: piece of hunting dogma. It's like a commonly held belief
Speaker 2: within the deer hunting world that most everyone thinks it's
Speaker 2: true that you believe is false.
Speaker 3: Two come to mind. The one one is I I
Speaker 3: don't think you can one hundred percent beat of deer's nose.
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna say you can't. I just don't believe
Speaker 3: you can. I've I don't think that that is a
Speaker 3: is a real thing that can be achieved through some
Speaker 3: sort of piece of equipment or a spray or a
Speaker 3: soap or anything like that. That's not to say playing
Speaker 3: in the wind or getting higher. You know, both things
Speaker 3: obviously can help and can do that. And then one
Speaker 3: I know, yes for one, but one other thing is
Speaker 3: like when you spook your buck, you think you know
Speaker 3: that's your last chance or he's gonna leave. I've come
Speaker 3: to find out that a lot of times they don't.
Speaker 3: They don't they'll come right back or they'll be very
Speaker 3: close by. And I've proved that to myself a lot
Speaker 3: just in the last five years. You know, last year
Speaker 3: or two years ago, I shot one in the shoulder
Speaker 3: with my bow on November seventh from the ground, and
Speaker 3: then I ended up shooting him with my bow the
Speaker 3: last day gun season December twelfth, not far from that
Speaker 3: same area. And then the buck this past year that
Speaker 3: I missed over the decoy and ended up getting a
Speaker 3: crack at him later, you know, about a week later.
Speaker 2: So all right, last question, if you were forced to
Speaker 2: distill your single most important piece of deer hunting advice
Speaker 2: or like the most important concept or philosophy that defines
Speaker 2: how you killed deer, if you had to put that
Speaker 2: on a billboard on the side of the highway, like
Speaker 2: next to Cabela's or Bass Pro shops or Shields wherever,
Speaker 2: where everyone's going to be driving by and seeing this
Speaker 2: message from Andy May, what would be that most important
Speaker 2: message be that you want to put there on the
Speaker 2: billboard for every deer hunter to see as they go
Speaker 2: drive into that store to get their gear, to buy
Speaker 2: their license, whatever, it.
Speaker 3: Is something along the lines of, like, hunting is supposed
Speaker 3: to be fun, Like, don't compare yourself, you know, don't
Speaker 3: compare yourself to other guys because not all of us
Speaker 3: are hunting on the same playing field, and it's easy
Speaker 3: to do these days. But something along those lines to
Speaker 3: remind the younger guys. I think about the younger guys
Speaker 3: a lot, the guys coming up that are seeing you know,
Speaker 3: guys like me or you know Lee, Lee Ellis or
Speaker 3: Mark Drury or and like it's like it almost feels
Speaker 3: like you have to do something at that level to
Speaker 3: be a good hunter, and it's just simply not true.
Speaker 3: We're just all in different scenarios. So hunt your own hunt,
Speaker 3: remember that it's supposed to be fun. If you want
Speaker 3: to try to be the best hunter you can be,
Speaker 3: learn from your mistakes, have that mindset of constantly improving.
Speaker 3: If you just want to go out and have fun,
Speaker 3: shoot deer with your family, go do that. Some of
Speaker 3: the happiest people I know and hunting are guys that
Speaker 3: do not care about big bucks and they go with
Speaker 3: their their dad and their brother up to hunting camp
Speaker 3: and they shoot the crap out a little little deer
Speaker 3: and they are the happiest guys I'll tell you. So
Speaker 3: that'd be a pretty big billboard to write all that,
Speaker 3: but you get the gist of it.
Speaker 2: It's a really, really, really good message though, So I
Speaker 2: will grant you the large billboard so that one can
Speaker 2: get out there for everyone, and I will thank you
Speaker 2: as as always Andy. Lots of a lot of wise words,
Speaker 2: a lot of great reminders, great insight, and we're all
Speaker 2: gonna be better because of it. So thank you Andy.
Speaker 3: Awesome, Yeah, thank you man. That was fun.
Speaker 2: All right. That is a wrap. Thanks for being here.
Speaker 2: Appreciate you tuning in. Hope you've enjoyed this series as
Speaker 2: much as I have, and until next time, stay wired
Speaker 2: to Honey.