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Speaker 1: It's time to get inside the Giants Huttle on Giants

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Speaker 1: dot com, the Giants, the Giants Podcast Network. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the news edition of the Giant Subtle Podcast. John Smoke

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Speaker 1: with you today's guest Peter King from NBC Sports. But first,

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Speaker 1: I don't our mind. Everybody. You can find the Giant

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Speaker 1: Subtle Podcast and all of our podcast offerings on the

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Speaker 1: Giants Podcast that we're presented by Investors Bank. You can

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Speaker 1: find the archive of the show on all of our

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Speaker 1: podcast at giants dot com, slash podcast, on the Giants

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Speaker 1: Mobile app, and on all of our favorite podcast platforms.

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Speaker 1: And now we're joined by our guest. He is Peter

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Speaker 1: King from NBC Sports. You can see him on Football

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Speaker 1: Night in America and of course is great Monday morning

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Speaker 1: column Football Morning in America, which is up right now

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Speaker 1: on NBC Sports and Pro Football Talk with great tidbits

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Speaker 1: on the seventeen game schedule and on Zach Wilson. Peter,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us. How are you today?

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Speaker 1: Everything's going good, John, how about you? We're doing great

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Speaker 1: here as well. Thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Let's start here your general impression of the Giants twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty season and then built off of that, How do

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Speaker 1: you think they should go about their business and what

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Speaker 1: should their approach be this offseason? Yeah, well, John, I think, uh,

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Speaker 1: it was an encouraging season for Joe Judge. You know,

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Speaker 1: the coaches in the recent history of the Giants have

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Speaker 1: had quite a few mini and maxi crises, and Um,

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Speaker 1: I really got the feeling early on as you saw

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Speaker 1: from up close and me from far away, Um, that

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Speaker 1: Joe Judge understands. You know. It's it's like just a

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Speaker 1: natural part of this job that occasionally you were going

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Speaker 1: to have Golden Tate incidents. You know. Um, you're not

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Speaker 1: going to be a head coach in the NFL, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know with everything going smoothly, Um, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to be a coach in the NFL without having a

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Speaker 1: crisis of an injury, you know, like the September injury,

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Speaker 1: to say Klon Barkley. So I think the thing I

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Speaker 1: like the best out of Joe Judge's first year basically

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Speaker 1: is crisis and mini crisis management. So now as they

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Speaker 1: try to take that next step in improvement, Peter, what

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Speaker 1: are some of the things you think they should focus

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Speaker 1: on in the off season, Well, I think one of

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Speaker 1: the things that is important, like if if I'm them,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I like where my defense is right now. Um,

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Speaker 1: I like the construction of the defense. Obviously, you really

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Speaker 1: want to get something done long term. Um, with a

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Speaker 1: really really good player like Leonard Williams, you you want

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Speaker 1: to make sure that you can keep a Dalvin Tomlinson, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, long term. Uh. You know, I think there

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Speaker 1: was a lot of encouraging things that you saw with

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Speaker 1: some other players on that front, you know, I would say,

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Speaker 1: including uh, including Dexter Lawrence and and I really like

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Speaker 1: the glue that Blake Martinez was on defense. But as

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Speaker 1: I look at this team right now, UM, I think

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Speaker 1: that I'd like to I'd like to have one more corner.

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Speaker 1: And there's almost the with the Giants. The Giants are

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Speaker 1: like the Steelers. They have this eternal search for cornerbacks.

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Speaker 1: And you know, they've used a lot of good high

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Speaker 1: draft choices, you know, on cornerbacks. Um. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to basically determine right away. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And I think in preferably in this offseason. It's not

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Speaker 1: like you're throwing Sam Beale out, you know with the trash,

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Speaker 1: but that was a very inconvenient opt out for Sam

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Speaker 1: Beale's career last year. You know, he needed to be

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Speaker 1: in to to basically stay can claim on this team

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Speaker 1: long term. So I think, you know, as far as

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Speaker 1: the draft and free agency goes, I would really want

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Speaker 1: to get one more corner that you would mentally say

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Speaker 1: to yourself that can be a starting corner. Now even

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, Peter, you mentioned Dalvin and I was just

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Speaker 1: gonna say, and most of the rest of the fixes,

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Speaker 1: in my opinion, I would focus on the offense this offseason. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's funny, that's exactly what I was gonna ask you, Right,

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Speaker 1: So we know about the salary cap. You could talk

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Speaker 1: more about that. There's limited funds out there and flexibility

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Speaker 1: to do multiple things. The strength of their team was

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Speaker 1: the defense, So how do they manage now trying to

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Speaker 1: help out Daniel Jones on the offensive side, whether it's

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Speaker 1: with protection or with weapons, versus trying to bring back

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Speaker 1: two of those big pieces on the defensive line like

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Speaker 1: Williams who was their best pass rusher and Dalvin Thomlinson,

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Speaker 1: who was their Man of the Year person that they

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Speaker 1: put into the league for the award, and hasn't missed

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Speaker 1: the game in four years, and it's such a good

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Speaker 1: guy against the run. I mean, I think those two

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Speaker 1: guys are must I just I think that if if

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Speaker 1: you are and the Giants obviously they don't have a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of money. Um, I think what

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Speaker 1: what that would mean to me is that I am looking,

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Speaker 1: uh to the draft to fix my problems, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the offensive side of the ball. You know, is

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Speaker 1: there a chance that either Jamaar Chase or Davante Smith

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Speaker 1: Devata Smith is going to be available at number eleven?

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Speaker 1: Maybe not? Do you do you think that Jalen Waddle? Um,

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Speaker 1: after uh, you know, sort of a checkered last season

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Speaker 1: obviously at Alabama, do you think that Jalen Waddle he's

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Speaker 1: worthy of the eleventh pick in the draft? I mean, look,

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Speaker 1: I'm not a huge Kyle football watcher, um, and I'm

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Speaker 1: just getting into the draft. This is right about the

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Speaker 1: time every year where I start sort of plunging into

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Speaker 1: the draft. But j Lob Model probably probably the third

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Speaker 1: best receiver in this draft, and to me, I would

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Speaker 1: look at at making absolutely sure that uh if Jalen

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Speaker 1: Moadel one of the receivers or maybe Kyle Pitts, who

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Speaker 1: obviously is the tight end from from Florida, who has

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Speaker 1: gotten so many people excited um about perhaps john one

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Speaker 1: of the most hybrid players to come out in the

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Speaker 1: draft in a long time. He's sort of this year's

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Speaker 1: Isaiah Simmons in some way on the other side of

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Speaker 1: the ball. Is there a chance, Peter in Fregrancy that

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Speaker 1: either Thominson or Leonard Williams aren't on the top of

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Speaker 1: their respective markets. Obviously they're you know, once a pass

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Speaker 1: rusher runs not so they're gonna be on different was financially,

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Speaker 1: But will the cap issues that a lot of teams have.

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Speaker 1: Might the Giants be able to get one of those

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Speaker 1: guys on a on a one year deal where then

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Speaker 1: you pay him next year or do you think they're

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Speaker 1: going to have to really pony up long term big

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Speaker 1: money for both those guys. You know, the unfortunate thing is,

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Speaker 1: you know, Johnny, you've got to I think almost you

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Speaker 1: have to have a conversation with both of them, and

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Speaker 1: you have to be able to say to him, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, you guys are the absolute keys to our

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Speaker 1: defensive front. We're not going to be as good without you.

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Speaker 1: We want to keep both of you long term, but

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Speaker 1: right now we really can probably pay only one UM,

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Speaker 1: and so the thing we want to do is we

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Speaker 1: want to make sure that we have a long term

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Speaker 1: future with you, and let's try to work out how

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Speaker 1: that can happen. Um. And you know that is the

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Speaker 1: difficulty about this time of year, particular early with the

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Speaker 1: cap um probably in the it's gonna be in the range,

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Speaker 1: and so I think it really becomes a balancing act um,

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Speaker 1: you know, for Dave Gettleman and his CAP team to

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Speaker 1: be able to find a way to try to make

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Speaker 1: both of those guys happy enough so that they'll both stay.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the wide receiver market, Peter, if the

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Speaker 1: Giants decided to go that way to find the playmaker,

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Speaker 1: how many of these guys at the top are even

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Speaker 1: going to get the free agency And which guys do

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Speaker 1: you think we'll get that franchise tag by the time

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Speaker 1: that deadline hits? If you ask me my gut feeling,

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Speaker 1: I think Chris Godwin is going to be on the

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Speaker 1: market the Tampa Bay wide receiver. The reason is that

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Speaker 1: Tampa Bay can't pay everybody and at this point in there,

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Speaker 1: uh in their constructuction period, at this point, they basically

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Speaker 1: have to have Shack Barrett back and and again. Even

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Speaker 1: if they get Shack Barrett signed to a long term deal,

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Speaker 1: I think he's the most valuable free agent. Even if

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Speaker 1: they get Shack Barrett signed to a long term deal,

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Speaker 1: can you afford basically a nineteen million dollar average for

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Speaker 1: though for both of those two players or whatever the

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Speaker 1: number is. So just my feeling that probably the best

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Speaker 1: receiver who will actually hit the market is going to

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Speaker 1: be Godwin. Now, um, I just I don't think Allen

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Speaker 1: Robinson's gonna hit the market. Um. I think Chicago is

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Speaker 1: going to either pay him or franchise him. There's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion in Chicago recently that Alan Robinson

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Speaker 1: would be a very unhappy franchised player. So you know,

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Speaker 1: we'll see what happens there. But my gut feeling is

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Speaker 1: Godwin will be the best guy. Interesting, when you mentioned this,

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Speaker 1: with the cap these TV deals, it sounds like they

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Speaker 1: might start going down, Peter, could that pump the cap

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Speaker 1: up a little bit more? Or no matter what happens,

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Speaker 1: are we looking at that? You think? Yeah, you know, John,

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Speaker 1: that is a really good question. And you know, the

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Speaker 1: NFL can make whatever rules it wants to make. They

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Speaker 1: can call the players Association and say, hey, listen, we're

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Speaker 1: on the verge of uh signing these deals which are

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Speaker 1: not taking effect this year. Because remember, John, every one

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Speaker 1: of the TV partners has a television contract that is

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Speaker 1: valid for now. This is the last year of ESPN

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Speaker 1: two season will be the last year for the rest

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Speaker 1: of the broadcast partners. So the salary cap is supposed

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Speaker 1: to be based on the NFL league season and the

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Speaker 1: revenues in that season. So could the NFL say to

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Speaker 1: the networks, hey, listen, we we want an infusion of cash,

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Speaker 1: you know, before say March fifteen. I've heard that that

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Speaker 1: I've heard that's increasingly unlikely even if they get the

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Speaker 1: TV deals done. I'm not saying it's impossible. There's, as

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Speaker 1: I said, John, and you've seen this, the NFL tends

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Speaker 1: to be able to do what it wants to do.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there's a lot of teams pressing

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Speaker 1: please don't make us have a hundred and eight five

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Speaker 1: million dollar cap or hundred and eighty million. But I

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Speaker 1: think it's more likely than not that it'll end up

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Speaker 1: in the one eighties. So, Peter, how do you think

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Speaker 1: that's then going to impact this free agency year? How

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Speaker 1: is it going to be different? We can see a

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Speaker 1: lot of cuts now in the next you know, couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. Is it gonna be a lot of one

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Speaker 1: year deals? And then I can only imagine what the

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Speaker 1: banans of the two free agency classes. You want to

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Speaker 1: be a free agent next year, Pete, When these teams

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Speaker 1: have all this money flying around, how do you think

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Speaker 1: this year is going to be different? Because of the

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Speaker 1: cap challenges so teams are facing. You said it, I

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Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a bunch of one year deals

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Speaker 1: because players are not going to be able to get

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Speaker 1: the long term deals that they really want. On the

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Speaker 1: other hand, teams that have money Indianapolis, let's say Cleveland,

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Speaker 1: New England, Um, they could make a big strike if

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Speaker 1: somebody wants. If someone is convinced that the top of

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Speaker 1: market unfranchised players, um are somebody are people who they

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Speaker 1: really desire. You know, maybe New England solves its long

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Speaker 1: standing problem a wide receiver and pays god Win a

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Speaker 1: lot of money. Everybody was shocked the year that they

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Speaker 1: paid Stefan Gilmore and they said, wow, it's not the

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Speaker 1: Patriot way. Well, Patriots are basically chameleons when it comes

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Speaker 1: to roster building, and so I wouldn't I wouldn't uh,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't put anything out of consideration in New England.

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Speaker 1: But I think you're absolutely right. I just think that

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Speaker 1: most teams are gonna say, two players and two agents.

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Speaker 1: We do not have the money to pay your guy.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to one agent last week who has

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Speaker 1: a lot of players this year, but most of them

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Speaker 1: are not star players, and he talked about a trying

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Speaker 1: to get the most money you can this year, the

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Speaker 1: most cash you can because you either anticipate trying to

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Speaker 1: be a free agent next year or uh having the

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Speaker 1: you know, the team. Basically, UH want to do a

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Speaker 1: deal with you that gives you the most cash this

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Speaker 1: year but puts uh you know, some good season, good

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Speaker 1: good money seasons into the future with some guarantees. Hey,

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Speaker 1: Giant fans got a new Your Giants checking account from

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Speaker 1: Investor's Bank with the Giant spread the debit card security

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Speaker 1: feature in the discounts of the John's online shop, you

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Speaker 1: cant don't know to charge your fifty dollars when you

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Speaker 1: open an account, and Investors Bank dot com slash Giants

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Speaker 1: member f D I see. We're joined by Peter King.

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Speaker 1: You can see his Football Morning in America Calm Up Today.

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Speaker 1: You can get off his Twitter feed the link also

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Speaker 1: pro football Talk dot Com and Peter. You mentioned that

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Speaker 1: this should be one of the days that we're recovering

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Speaker 1: from our fourth serving of horse radish lather and shrimp

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Speaker 1: cocktail at Saint Almos and I coming back from Indianapolis,

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Speaker 1: but we're not. Do you feel like in some ways,

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Speaker 1: and I know you have more contacts than anybody that

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Speaker 1: you're almost like flying a little bit more blind than

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Speaker 1: you are at this time of year, not having that

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Speaker 1: week in Indy where the entire NFL world is kind

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Speaker 1: of there together, so you can talk to anybody you

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Speaker 1: want to in person. You know, John, I know this

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Speaker 1: year everybody cares about quarterbacks and I do too. Um,

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Speaker 1: And I I thought, okay, this year, if I were

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Speaker 1: at the combine, I would have pulled twenty GMS head coaches,

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Speaker 1: personnel people, and I would have said, give me the

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Speaker 1: top five orderbacks in order, you know, going down to

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Speaker 1: mac Jones. And you know, so I started to do

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Speaker 1: that in the last couple of days. But the more

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Speaker 1: I looked into it, the more I started to think, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, most teams have not gotten to that point yet.

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Speaker 1: They might have set their boards based on film study only,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't talked to these guys. They don't have

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Speaker 1: a feel for these guys. You know, I did something

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Speaker 1: in my column today about Kyle Wilson, the Brigham, Zack Wilson,

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Speaker 1: excuse me, the Brigham young quarterback and Zack Wilson. The

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Speaker 1: problem is I was telling some people his story over

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Speaker 1: the weekend, and and we're so early in the process.

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Speaker 1: They're saying, oh my god, I didn't know that. Wow. Wow,

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Speaker 1: you know, like like, you know, Zack Wilson um driving

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Speaker 1: to see his his quarterback tutor, John Beck, taking ten

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Speaker 1: hour drives for a weekend to go get two sessions

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Speaker 1: with John Beck all last spring and summer. It's he's

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Speaker 1: got an intense, amazing drive. Really, But I said, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe I should put off this polling of NFL people

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Speaker 1: because I'm not sure that they Maybe some of them

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Speaker 1: have made a preliminary board, but they really haven't made

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Speaker 1: those decisions yet. Those are the kind of decisions you

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Speaker 1: start to get a real field for at the combine,

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Speaker 1: because all these teams that need quarterbacks would have met

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Speaker 1: with all of the quarterbacks at least for fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: at the scouting combine. Now they haven't. They're gonna have

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Speaker 1: to do it on zoom as our world is today, Uh,

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Speaker 1: this this spring before the draft. So I just think

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be a particularly odd offseason. Last year a

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Speaker 1: lot of it was done virtually too, but NFL teams

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Speaker 1: did have the full combine last year and that's just

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Speaker 1: not gonna happen this year. Peter, just two more questions.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned quarterbacks. What's the next big move that's going

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Speaker 1: to happen in free agency? We've seen the Stafford move,

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Speaker 1: the Wentz move, the Goth move. What's the next, you know,

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Speaker 1: big thing that's going to happen that spurns on free agency?

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Speaker 1: Or are we kind of done right now with with

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Speaker 1: the big moves at quarterback, with Houston kind of holding

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Speaker 1: their cards close to the vest and fre agency now

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Speaker 1: just about two weeks away, I think we're done for

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Speaker 1: a little while. UM I won't be surprised when everything

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Speaker 1: is done John if uh Teddy Bridgewater is elsewhere, But

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Speaker 1: that's not going to happen until Carolina knows it can

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Speaker 1: uh that it either drafts, somebody or um that they

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Speaker 1: were able to trade for Deshaun Watson. I think Watson

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Speaker 1: and Wilson we're going to hit a lull period right

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Speaker 1: now with them because you know, the Texans and I

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Speaker 1: wrote it last week, they're not even considering options right

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Speaker 1: out for a trade at that position. So I think

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Speaker 1: we've got as of today, we've got sixty days before

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Speaker 1: the first round of the draft. That really is the

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Speaker 1: next mile post for the Houston Texans and Deshaun Watson.

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Speaker 1: Are we gonna see a lot of trade ups for quarterbacks?

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Speaker 1: You think in the top ten, four or maybe even

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Speaker 1: five going that early. I would think yes, I would

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Speaker 1: think the teams that need one, you know, as as

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Speaker 1: somebody I mean, as I've been trying to project this,

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Speaker 1: you know, and say, hey, what do you think happens

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Speaker 1: to this guy? That guy? The interesting player here really,

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Speaker 1: uh is Mac Jones because you know, especially I think

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Speaker 1: it was, um, I think it was very very telling

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Speaker 1: that now you're starting to talk to people who come

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Speaker 1: out of the Alabama program, um, you know, who really

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Speaker 1: are talking about Mac Jones in the same sphere even

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Speaker 1: higher than uh to a tok of a wow. So

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Speaker 1: so now you start to hear that, you start to

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Speaker 1: see that, uh you know, for instance, um, the at

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Speaker 1: the at the Combine or I'm sorry, at the Senior

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Speaker 1: Bowl this year, how much the Carolina Panthers coaching staff

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Speaker 1: raved about Mac Jones. I think he's the real wild card.

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Speaker 1: I think Zack Wilson's going in the top ten. You

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Speaker 1: know obviously that Trevor Lawrence is almost certainly going number one. UM,

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Speaker 1: and then you know you have a cloudy picture, you know,

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Speaker 1: with Justin Fields, with Trey Lance, with Mac Jones. But

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Speaker 1: Mike Tannenbaum told me last week that he said, I

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Speaker 1: I will bet you, uh what I think. He said,

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Speaker 1: I'll bet you a year's supply of of Starbucks if

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Speaker 1: Mac Jones uh is still there after the eighth pick

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Speaker 1: in the draft. He thinks that Carolina really loves him.

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Speaker 1: So it's John. It's gonna be an interesting year because

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Speaker 1: the draft is always more fun when quarterbacks are involved,

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Speaker 1: and when there's a difference of opinion on quarterbacks, and

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Speaker 1: when a lot of teams need quarterbacks. So I think

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Speaker 1: that is what's going to make the draft a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun this year. Yeah, the team, like the John's

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Speaker 1: obviously want the quarterbacks to go so a better player

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Speaker 1: drops to them. Final question, Peter, Uh, This I think

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Speaker 1: is an interesting factor this whole pre draft process that

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Speaker 1: I just think is fascinating. Scouts really weren't on campus

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Speaker 1: this year, so you're limited with the information that way.

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Speaker 1: There was a limited number of games. Trey Lance played

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Speaker 1: one game this year, for example, and now who knows

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Speaker 1: what you can trust with this testing. We've seen some

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Speaker 1: numbers leak out of the EXO stuff over the weekend

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Speaker 1: and O Mark Dominic ran that. So you would hope

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Speaker 1: that those numbers are real prote numbers. And everyone's like, oh,

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Speaker 1: the guy's running on concrete. You can't take it seriously

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Speaker 1: that he's running the thirty nine yard dash, etcetera. How

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Speaker 1: are these teams go to adjust their evaluation process, especially

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Speaker 1: in terms of the testing numbers here in comparison to

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Speaker 1: what they're able and not able to do in the

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Speaker 1: regular season to scout these players. How's that going to

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Speaker 1: impact this whole draft process? You know, the one thing

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Speaker 1: I feel pretty sure of is no one is going

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Speaker 1: to take a forty time done unofficially this postseason, even

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Speaker 1: if it is done. Uh, you know at one of

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Speaker 1: these uh like an Exos type facility. No one is

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Speaker 1: going to take that as gospel. When it's done in Indianapolis,

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Speaker 1: it's taken his gospel. But no one's gonna take it

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Speaker 1: as gospel this year. So they will look at, for instance,

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Speaker 1: the on campus forty times that the players have had

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Speaker 1: in the last year or two, and they probably, I'm guessing,

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Speaker 1: are going to round him off. You know, if you

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Speaker 1: have a wide receiver who on campus is played, Let's

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Speaker 1: say he's played for two years and on campuses run

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Speaker 1: a four four six and a four four five, and

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden you see in me ran a

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Speaker 1: four three two. You are going to say, okay, let's

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Speaker 1: let's average those out. Let's say he's whatever. Let's say

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Speaker 1: he's a four four one. Okay. And because I just

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Speaker 1: don't think there can be the kind of trust in

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Speaker 1: those kind of numbers. And look, those things are overrated anyway.

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Speaker 1: You ought to be looking at game speed as much

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Speaker 1: as anything else. Um, but I just don't think they

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Speaker 1: are going to take the numbers that are given out

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Speaker 1: this year's gospel. Peter, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: Of course, this Football Morning America column is up. Anything

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Speaker 1: else Pete that you want to tell the folks about

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Speaker 1: that that you're doing, that you're working on and where

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Speaker 1: they can find your great work. Now, that's really about it.

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Speaker 1: I'll have my podcast up this week. I have no

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Speaker 1: idea what I'm doing, but that'll be up on Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: the Peter King Podcast. And uh, anyway, it's been great

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Speaker 1: talking to me and John. Great Peter me as well.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Are all the best team. That's

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Speaker 1: Peter King from NBC Sports at again, go check out

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Speaker 1: this Football Morning and American column. It is up. Great

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Speaker 1: stuff on Zack Wilson in there. Stuff on the seventeen

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Speaker 1: game schedule was well, to make sure you go check

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Speaker 1: that out at Pro Football Talk dot com by NBC Sports.

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Speaker 1: For Peter King, I'm John Schmolke. Just a reminder that

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Speaker 1: the Johnsuttle Podcast is part of the John's Podcast newk

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Speaker 1: which is presented by Investors Bank. You can find the

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Speaker 1: archive of this show on all of our podcasts at

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Speaker 1: johnts dot com, slash podcast, on the jihnts mobile app,

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Speaker 1: and your favorite podcast platforms. For Peter King, I'm John Schmulk.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you next time on the John Suttle podcast.

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Speaker 1: Stay safe out there, everyone,