1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Over the past few months, you've probably heard a lot 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: about the Tuskegee Experiment. In the nineteen thirties, researchers began 3 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:15,320 Speaker 1: a study of six hundred black men with syphilis. Scientists 4 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,920 Speaker 1: told them they were being treated for quote, bad blood. 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:24,119 Speaker 1: That was not the truth. They wanted to study what 6 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:28,560 Speaker 1: would happen if syphilis went untreated. The study ran for 7 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:33,559 Speaker 1: forty years, the men never received the proper treatment to 8 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: cure their illness. Or you might also know the story 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,320 Speaker 1: of Henrietta A. Lax, a Black woman who underwent cancer 10 00:00:41,360 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: treatment in the nineteen fifties in a segregated hospital. She died, 11 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 1: but researchers cloned her cancer cells. These cells became the 12 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 1: first immortalized human cell line and lead to countless medical 13 00:00:56,960 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: breakthrough But Lax did not consent to this, and while 14 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 1: drug manufacturers profit off of them, her family had no 15 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: idea and continued to live in poverty for decades. Or 16 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: maybe you've heard about Jay Mary and Simms, the so 17 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,759 Speaker 1: called father of modern guide incology. He experimented on enslaved 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: black women without anesthesia. There was a statue of him 19 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:30,440 Speaker 1: in Central Park until over the past year, these events 20 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,959 Speaker 1: have become a sort of shorthand for why some Black 21 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: people don't trust the COVID vaccines, And of course this 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 1: legacy of abuse is part of the reason for that mistrust. 23 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 1: You come to this point in life and you still 24 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,480 Speaker 1: have some of that that trauma that you've you've you've 25 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: held on to the residue from the oral stories that 26 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 1: have been passed down generationally to your own experiences. That's 27 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 1: Dr Timothy Sloan. He's the head pastor at the Luke 28 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: a Baptist Church in Humble, Texas. Now, when you talk 29 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: about UM the vaccine, there's the reminder of the trauma 30 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,080 Speaker 1: that was experienced through UM the Tuskegee experiment, and you 31 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: hear the conversations that, um, we need more African Americans 32 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: to be tested UM to get more data for the 33 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: vaccine than that automatically triggers some mistrust. But high profile 34 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: abuses like the Tuskey Experiment don't fully explain why the 35 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:43,520 Speaker 1: black community is so suspicious of the medical establishment. Dr 36 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:47,359 Speaker 1: Sloan says, there's a lot more to it. So when 37 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: we talk about the mistrust, I'm a descendant from the 38 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 1: family of of Briggs. Briggs versus Elliott was the first 39 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:02,520 Speaker 1: case tried dealing with school to segregation in some No, 40 00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:08,239 Speaker 1: South Carolina. In Briggs versus Elliott, was the precursor to 41 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: Brown versus Board of Education, the landmark case in which 42 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruled that segregating schools was unconstitutional. The 43 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: case was tried in Charleston, South Carolina, not far from 44 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 1: my grandmother's house. Their good marshal tried the case, and so, 45 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 1: of course we didn't win that case. That's when they 46 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: went on though towards Brown Versusport of Education. The case 47 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: was eventually appealed and then combined with Brown versus Board 48 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: of Education. Brown would succeed where Briggs had originally failed 49 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: and paved the way for Dr Sloan to be the 50 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: first person in his family to go to a desegregated school. 51 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: Then Dr Sloan told me about another piece of his 52 00:03:54,760 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: family history. My grandfather was murdered in tarl So, South 53 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 1: Carolina by a white mob and he was drowned there 54 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 1: off the seashore. Dr Sloan says that his grandmother got 55 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: a knock on the door and someone said her husband 56 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: had drowned, without giving a reason why or explaining how 57 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: it had happened. They just said he drowned, But everyone 58 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: in this town knew what happened, saw it happen there 59 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: that night. Dr Sloan's family history isn't a diversion. It's 60 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: the point. If you are black in America, there are 61 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 1: just more reasons to be on the defensive. Your school 62 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: may not want you to get an education, your doctors 63 00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: might want to use you as elaborate, and one day 64 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:54,600 Speaker 1: your loved one just might disappear without any explanation. How 65 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: could you not be suspicious of all of the systems 66 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:02,239 Speaker 1: and forces that influence your life. Old stories that trickle down, 67 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: They come with a sense of of guards, uptype mentality 68 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,000 Speaker 1: in your way of life. I've talked before in this 69 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 1: series about how vaccines require trust in order to work. 70 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:21,800 Speaker 1: Right now, the medical establishment is asking the Black community 71 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: to trust them, and that's a big ask. Medical racism 72 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: isn't just a historical fact, it's a present day reality. 73 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: Black women are three times more likely than white women 74 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: to die because of pregnancy. Half of the number of 75 00:05:42,200 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: black people receive mental health services. Black Americans have the 76 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 1: highest mortality rate for cancer compared to every other racial group. 77 00:05:53,560 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: In this episode, I've made the choice to talk mainly 78 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: about the Black community. Every community's relationship to healthcare and 79 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,400 Speaker 1: vaccines is different, and we could probably spend an entire 80 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 1: episode on each of them. Polling has also shown significant 81 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:17,039 Speaker 1: hesitancy among Hispanic people and people who live in rural areas. 82 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 1: Republicans are far more likely than Democrats to say they 83 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: won't get the vaccine at all. Of course, every individual 84 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: has their own experience too. No community is a monolith, 85 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: but Black Americans have died at twice the rate of 86 00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 1: wide Americans from the virus. So while there may be 87 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: trust issues with the vaccine and communities of color, they're 88 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: also the communities that need vaccines the most. The medical 89 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: establishments need to earn back some of that trust is 90 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: a matter of life and death, and if they succeed, 91 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: it could offer crucial insights into how to get other 92 00:07:01,279 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: skeptical groups to get the shot as well. I'm Bloomberg 93 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:09,200 Speaker 1: News health reporter Christin B. Brown from the prog News 94 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: podcast This is Doubt. M On September twelf Reverend R. F. 95 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: Skinner founded the St. Luke Missionary Baptist Church in Humble, Texas. 96 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 1: Humble is located eighteen miles northeast of Houston, where the 97 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: Woody Big Thicket meets the coastal plains. At the turn 98 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: of the twentieth century, it was a small town along 99 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: a rail line where most residents worked in agriculture or lumber. 100 00:07:57,280 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: Eventually oil would be discovered there and the town would 101 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 1: boom and bust many times over. Its residents were both 102 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: black and white, but they didn't really mix. The black 103 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: people of Humble were not allowed to attend white churches. 104 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: St Luke was a black church, but in the story goes, 105 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 1: the white residents held a meeting they decided the black 106 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: churches of Humble were no longer welcome. They told us 107 00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: the next day that there was a vote and we 108 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:33,839 Speaker 1: had to move our church, and we had if we 109 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: would hurry, we could get some land on the other 110 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: side of the railroad tracks. As Dr. Sloan tells it, 111 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 1: the congregation of St. Luke was asked to move literally 112 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 1: across the tracks and landed eventually in an area called Bordersville, 113 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: and we were there up until the two thousand and ten, 114 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: when we bought property and moved back into really the 115 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: center of Humble. For eighty years, St Luke had been 116 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 1: cast out of the center of town Dr Sloan came 117 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,199 Speaker 1: aboard in two thousand two. Under his leadership, the church 118 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:12,600 Speaker 1: bought twenty acres of land in prime Humble, built a 119 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 1: brand new, multimillion dollar worship center that could hold a 120 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,800 Speaker 1: thousand people, and eventually rechristened itself the Luke. This story 121 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: is central to the church's mythology. The ending is a 122 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: story of triumph, but it's also yet another story about 123 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: people of color being cast aside and treated inequitably. These 124 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 1: issues are baked into the identity of the church, and 125 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 1: a lot of what we do centers on the challenges 126 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: and struggles at impact African Americans, and for the last year, 127 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:49,400 Speaker 1: those struggles have included whether or not to trust in 128 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 1: the COVID vaccines. As a pastor, Dr Sloan is the 129 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 1: leader of his five thousand member congregation. He's a trusted 130 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: voice throughout the pandemic. He had avoided discussing the vaccine 131 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: and his sermons. Dr Sloane himself was torn over getting one. 132 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 1: I had really been struggling with it, you know, I've 133 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 1: been talking about it, trying to figure out if I 134 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,880 Speaker 1: trust the vaccine. Conversations with my wife. His wife, the 135 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:22,000 Speaker 1: first lady of the church is an orthopedic surgeon, you know. 136 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 1: We both were wrestling with it. And I started to think, though, 137 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,719 Speaker 1: wait a minute. If I have these questions, and I've 138 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:33,680 Speaker 1: got access to the information I have access to, and 139 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: surely the typical member of my congregation has the same questions, 140 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: then how are we all going to deal with this? 141 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: And I think one of the big gaps is information 142 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 1: in communities. So the church did a survey and found 143 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: that the congregation was pretty hesitant. In October, only thirty 144 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: of congregants were comfortable getting vaccinate did And there was 145 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 1: a lot of misinformation floating around. You heard everything from 146 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: people saying, you know, they're gonna put a microchip in 147 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,080 Speaker 1: you too, You're gonna grow an extra limb, you know. 148 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 1: And I hear people gonna get cancer from this, you know, 149 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:18,959 Speaker 1: all kinds of things that were out there, floating from 150 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: what you you see on social media and um and 151 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 1: I was I begun just reading through all that stuff 152 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,719 Speaker 1: and was thinking, man, that this is just bad information 153 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:34,439 Speaker 1: and our biggest hurdle is information. Here. Dr Sloan's congregation 154 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: isn't alone in its hesitancy. Different poles paints somewhat varying 155 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 1: pictures of vaccine skepticism among Black Americans, but many suggest 156 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,280 Speaker 1: there is more concern about COVID vaccines among black people 157 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: than white people. The recent Kaiser Family Foundation poll, for example, 158 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: found black adults say they plan to wait to get 159 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: the vaccine until more people have taken it. Compared to 160 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: white adults. Those numbers are actually a lot better than 161 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: when the vaccines first began rolling out. All of this 162 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: skepticism presented a problem for Dr Sloan. It's not enough 163 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: to just give people the facts. Anyone can pull up 164 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: government statistics. But in an age where everyone seems to 165 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: be hawking a different set of facts, it's not just 166 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: the message that matters, it's also the messenger. And you're 167 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: going to edit all this right, Yes, yes, this is 168 00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 1: I have a producer. You will make you sound lovely 169 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: and me sound lovely, and everything you tell him, I 170 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 1: want him to make me sound like James Earl Jones. 171 00:12:54,480 --> 00:13:00,440 Speaker 1: All right, this is Dr Stephen Thomas, Professor in the 172 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:04,880 Speaker 1: Department of Health Policy and Management at the University of 173 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:09,480 Speaker 1: Maryland School of Public Health. Stephen has been interested in 174 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: healthcare since he was a kid. His mom was a 175 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: nurse and back in the day when nurses kind of 176 00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:18,280 Speaker 1: look like a nurses, you know, the white star tad 177 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: I who remember her as a child polishing those shoes, 178 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: and so that inspired me to be involved in health. 179 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: Stephen has been researching the issue of inequity and healthcare 180 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: since before there was widespread acknowledgment that that was even 181 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 1: a thing. He wants to understand the context that shapes 182 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,120 Speaker 1: the attitudes and behaviors of people of color when it 183 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,560 Speaker 1: comes to their health. He says, there are a lot 184 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: of things about how we talk about vaccines that don't 185 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:54,839 Speaker 1: inspire trust. This includes the language we used to talk 186 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: about them. It can be scary, confusing, and sometimes also 187 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,600 Speaker 1: kind to offensive. So you want to come into my 188 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 1: community talking about her immunity, well, I can remember my 189 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:15,840 Speaker 1: grandmother telling me at one time White people have thought 190 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: of us like animals, like herds, like chattel. Why do 191 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: you want to come into my community with that? Stephen 192 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: says that when you're talking about vaccination, you can't divorce 193 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,800 Speaker 1: it from all of the other health care inequities that 194 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: can impact people of color. There are hundreds of studies 195 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: that have demonstrated people of color routinely get access to 196 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: worse healthcare in America, Black people are more likely to 197 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: delay care because of cost, they're more likely to have diabetes, 198 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: and they're more likely to die of heart disease. We've 199 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: seen similar disparities play out with vaccination. Black and brown 200 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: communities have been hit hardest by the pandemic, and yet 201 00:15:05,560 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 1: not every region has chosen to give communities of color 202 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: more doses of the vaccine. Paiser Family Foundation data shows 203 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:19,400 Speaker 1: Black and Hispanic people have consistently received fewer vaccines compared 204 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: to their share of cases and deaths. And when inoculation 205 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: sites have been set up to give underserved or minority 206 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: populations better access to shots, sometimes wealthier suburban nights have 207 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: just driven over to get shots there themselves. This is 208 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: really frustrating for people like Stephen. It's clear that there 209 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: is a concerted effort to make an overture to the 210 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:50,760 Speaker 1: black community. When they announced the Phase three clinical trials 211 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: for the Maderna vaccine, the National Institutes of Health put 212 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: out a Q and A which featured a black trial 213 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: participant talking about why it was important black people to 214 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: take part in the trial. I had questions that about 215 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 1: what it would be like, about how it impact on 216 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: me and so I'm here today to help others decide 217 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,320 Speaker 1: whether or not they want to volunteer to participate in 218 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: clinical trials. I have to say, the mayor of Tuski, Alabama, 219 00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 1: televised getting his own COVID shot, so did Kamala Harris, 220 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:28,880 Speaker 1: our first Black Asian and female VP. But lack of 221 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: access it just reinforces existing mistrust. And that doesn't just 222 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: mean having shots available. It also means making sure everyone 223 00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: is able to figure out how to sign up for 224 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: an appointment. Don't put systems in place that you say 225 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,880 Speaker 1: are okay, well, everybody has can get online and sign up. 226 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: But I know a whole bunch of people who look 227 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: like me who don't have stable internet, still on flip 228 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: bones and can sit around refreshing, refreshing, refreshing. You get me. 229 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 1: So these built in inequalities really exacerbate the institutional racism 230 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: we've been living with Over and over again. In reporting 231 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: the series, I've heard from people that they feel dismissed 232 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: or that their concerns about vaccines weren't taken seriously. That's 233 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,240 Speaker 1: a big problem across the board. It's hard to trust 234 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: anyone who treats you like your stupid or your concerns 235 00:17:30,600 --> 00:17:36,919 Speaker 1: don't matter. Inequities make all of this worse. Hesitant doesn't 236 00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:43,199 Speaker 1: mean no, it means let's talk and don't rush over me. 237 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 1: This moment is a critical one, and there are forces 238 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,440 Speaker 1: conspiring to really try and screw it up. Anti vaccine 239 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,480 Speaker 1: figureheads like Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Have been targeting the 240 00:17:56,520 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: black community. In March, Kennedy put out a documentary called 241 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,200 Speaker 1: Medical Racism, clearly aimed at recruiting more people of color 242 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 1: to the cause, but honestly a botched rollout of the 243 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,840 Speaker 1: vaccines in which the people who need them the most 244 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: can't get them. That stands to threaten the trust of 245 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Speaker 1: the black community as much as anything else. It's hard 246 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: to trust a system that doesn't seem to prioritize or 247 00:18:24,520 --> 00:18:29,240 Speaker 1: care about people that look like you. Those inequality issues 248 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: desperately need to be addressed better, But efforts to gain 249 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: the trust to the black community do seem to be 250 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: making an impact, and those efforts just might tell us 251 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 1: something useful about how to inspire trust in vaccines in 252 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,520 Speaker 1: other communities. Stephen says, we know plenty about why people 253 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: of color distrust health care systems. He says, what we 254 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: need now or solutions. The idea for one of those 255 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:01,520 Speaker 1: solutions came to him over twenty years ago when he 256 00:19:01,600 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: was getting a haircut. I'll change his name to protect him, 257 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 1: all right, Joe walks in, and you have to understand. 258 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: And a black barbershop, you have TVs on every wall, 259 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:18,679 Speaker 1: all to a different shan and the music explaining, and 260 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:25,480 Speaker 1: everybody's talking. So Joe comes in, Hey, Joe, where you been? 261 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:29,840 Speaker 1: He said he was in the emergency room. He pulls 262 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: out these pills. He said, the doctor told me I'm 263 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 1: gonna have to take these pills the rest of my life. 264 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:39,720 Speaker 1: In the barber set, Joe, you know, if you take 265 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: those pills, you won't be able to keep up your obligations. 266 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:49,639 Speaker 1: And everybody heard that. I don't have to explain to 267 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,719 Speaker 1: you what that means obligations. I'm going to assume you 268 00:19:53,720 --> 00:20:01,240 Speaker 1: know what he means when he says obligations. I looked 269 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,120 Speaker 1: at Joe's face. He's not going to take those pills. 270 00:20:07,240 --> 00:20:11,919 Speaker 1: His doctor has no idea. There's somebody in the community 271 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: with this level of influence. Now Jone has been in 272 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 1: the hospital. E er, you just counting up the cross 273 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 1: diagnosed prescribed a medication, got the prescription field walks and 274 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: took on barber's up and not going to take those 275 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,560 Speaker 1: pills anymore. And they not want to go back to 276 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,600 Speaker 1: the doctor because he hasn't been following the doctor's orders. 277 00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: This got Stephen thinking, it's easy to avoid the doctors, 278 00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,880 Speaker 1: but not so much a barber. Not if you want 279 00:20:46,920 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: to look good anyway, no self respect and black barber 280 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:52,879 Speaker 1: whatever is say, I'll get you in and out in 281 00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,560 Speaker 1: the fifteen minutes. Okay, there ain't no super cuts, no 282 00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: hair cutler, ain't none of that. You're going to spend 283 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 1: have a day in the barbershop just catching the po thing. 284 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:06,920 Speaker 1: Some people come in and they don't even need a haircut. 285 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: So in many ways it's a sacred space. And this 286 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: put an idea in Steven's mind. Whatever the barber was 287 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: a partner. What if the barber said, hey, Joe, you know, 288 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: if you're having side effects, you know, a rectile dysfunction, 289 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,760 Speaker 1: don't be ashamed, tell your doctor you can change the medication. 290 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,119 Speaker 1: In other words, Stephen wanted the barber and the doctors 291 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,400 Speaker 1: to team up. He wondered what would happen if health 292 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: advice wasn't only coming from doctors, but also from a 293 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 1: trusted member of the community. So in two thousand one, 294 00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 1: Stephen started what would become HAIR, the Health Advocates in 295 00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 1: Reach and Research campaign. Through HAIR, he trains local barbers 296 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:03,399 Speaker 1: and beauticians in Maryland to offer good health advice to 297 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 1: the community and advocate for things like collorrectal screenings. During 298 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: the pandemic. Stephen has mobilized this network to disseminate accurate 299 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:18,879 Speaker 1: COVID information, including about the vaccines. Stephen believes that in 300 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,920 Speaker 1: order to get past the mistrust, you have to do 301 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,640 Speaker 1: the work to build trust, and that requires meeting people 302 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: where they are. It requires listening to them, and it 303 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:36,040 Speaker 1: requires acknowledging the missteps of the past and the inequalities 304 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: that persist today. I don't like to have to throw 305 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: tuskee in your face in an order for you to 306 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 1: understand that black lives matter, and they don't have to 307 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,840 Speaker 1: be marching in street the matter. They may be in 308 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:55,640 Speaker 1: a hospital that matters too. With that one word, think 309 00:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,639 Speaker 1: of what I'm saying to you that these institutions have 310 00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 1: me history of abuse in the name, but I'm here 311 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 1: to help you in the name of science. Now you 312 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 1: want me to trust this science this is a legitimate 313 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:14,959 Speaker 1: distrust and our efforts should be then to rebuild trust 314 00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,800 Speaker 1: and then and be trustworthy. At the end of the day, 315 00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: even your favorite celebrity probably isn't as convincing as someone 316 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, like your aunt, or your barber or your reverend. 317 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: Back in Humble, Texas, Dr Sloan was struggling with what 318 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:49,240 Speaker 1: message to send his congregation about the vaccine. The pastor 319 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,800 Speaker 1: still had a lot of questions by the time vaccines 320 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: were starting to roll out. He began thinking about what 321 00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: kind of trusted expert the church could turn to for answers. 322 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, why not asked the top dot 323 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: in the nation? And you know the words he can 324 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: say is no. And you know if he doesn't respond, 325 00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: nobody knows us in the letter but me. So he 326 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: sent an email to the office of Anthony Fauci, the 327 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:22,040 Speaker 1: head of the National Institutes of Allergies and Infectious Diseases. 328 00:24:22,880 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: A week later, Dr Sloan got a response. Fauci was 329 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:32,439 Speaker 1: in on January six, the same day that pro Trump 330 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 1: extremists stormed the Capitol. They taped an interview. It would 331 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 1: air that Sunday as part of the day's worship Service. 332 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: Dr Sloan says that going into that interview, he was 333 00:24:44,560 --> 00:24:48,920 Speaker 1: still feeling pretty conflicted about the shot, but there was 334 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: one moment in which he started to change his mind. 335 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,959 Speaker 1: First of all, I think we need to acknowledge that 336 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: the concern and the hesitation based on what you refer 337 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: to UH as you know, the slights and the mistreatment 338 00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:11,680 Speaker 1: of the African American community historically by the established government 339 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,919 Speaker 1: medical establishment is real in history and we have to 340 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: recognize that it occurred, and we have to emphasize that 341 00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 1: UH situations have been put in place, UH safeguards have 342 00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: been put in place that this could never happen again. 343 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 1: When he did that, I felt like for the thousands 344 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: of people who were watching, guards automatically went down and 345 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,560 Speaker 1: there was there was a receptiveness towards what he was saying. 346 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: And after listening to him, after hearing the thoroughness, after 347 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: hearing the different things explained in Layman's terms, um I 348 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: concluded that conversation with confidence in taking the vaccine. This 349 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 1: because back to a lot of what we talked about earlier, 350 00:26:03,080 --> 00:26:07,360 Speaker 1: people and especially black people who have been screwed over 351 00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:11,439 Speaker 1: time and time again. I want to be acknowledged and 352 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,000 Speaker 1: heard vout she was putting all of this into practice, 353 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's what many people want. They want 354 00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:24,119 Speaker 1: to know that that what I feel is legitimate, and 355 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: he legitimized a lot of the pain and trauma of 356 00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: African Americans. And so we were like, okay, all right, 357 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: So here's someone who really understands where we're coming from. 358 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: And I felt that way, Okay, you understand where I'm 359 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: coming from with these questions. So the interview plays as 360 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:45,480 Speaker 1: part of the Sunday service. After it ends, it's time 361 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: for Dr. Sloan to give his sermon. Dr Sloan says 362 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 1: that initially he felt uneasy telling his congregation to go 363 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,000 Speaker 1: and get vaccinated outright, even though his own concerns had dissipated. 364 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: This is something I've heard from other leaders of Black 365 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: churches in reporting this. A lot of them say that 366 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,280 Speaker 1: they want to give their congregance good information about the vaccines, 367 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: but they don't want to go so far as to 368 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 1: tell them they should get it. Many have told me 369 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:21,400 Speaker 1: that would risk compromising the trust their congregations have in them. 370 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:23,119 Speaker 1: They don't want to appear as if they're on the 371 00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: side of corporations or the government. Instead, of their community. 372 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: I wanted to offer to people, you know, hey, take 373 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,760 Speaker 1: this information and make the best decision. So the reverend 374 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:39,359 Speaker 1: takes the stage after the interview plays. He's wearing a 375 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:43,120 Speaker 1: crisp black suit and light pink tie. He has thick 376 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 1: black frame glasses on. He starts with a story about 377 00:27:47,760 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: lepers in the Book of Second Kings, chapter seven, beginning 378 00:27:55,880 --> 00:28:00,320 Speaker 1: at verse three, the word of God is recorded. The 379 00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: story goes that there were four lepers standing outside a 380 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: city gate. The city is suffering from famine, and the 381 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: lepers are trying to figure out what to do with themselves. 382 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: So they said to each other, why should we stay 383 00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 1: here until we die? If we say we'll go into 384 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: the city, well, the famine is there and we will die. 385 00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: And if we stay here, we will die. So let's 386 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: go over into the camp or the Ramians and surrender. 387 00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,440 Speaker 1: Doctor Sloan then goes on to say that he's telling 388 00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:41,240 Speaker 1: the story because it's about people making decisions together, and 389 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: then suddenly he switches gears from the Old Testament to today. 390 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 1: I don't need to tell you how startling the statistics 391 00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: are today. There've been over ninety one million cases of 392 00:28:55,880 --> 00:29:02,040 Speaker 1: COVID worldwide. One point nine three mill in deaths, twenty 393 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: two point seven million cases and three hundred eighty one 394 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 1: thousand deaths in the United States alone, and those numbers 395 00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:16,160 Speaker 1: are still rising as we speak. And while these numbers 396 00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:20,880 Speaker 1: are alarming, there even worse for African Americans. As his 397 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: sermon unfolds, he discusses Tuskegee and why it's understandable for 398 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,680 Speaker 1: black people to be suspicious of the vaccine, and then 399 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: he makes a link between the lepers and the Black community. 400 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,600 Speaker 1: Challenges are nothing new to us, but we've always been 401 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,760 Speaker 1: reminded that overcoming obstacles is going to require an undaunted 402 00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:46,080 Speaker 1: faith in God. And that's why we can so easily 403 00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:51,280 Speaker 1: identify with these lepers in this text. We share similar realities. 404 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: We know what it's like to be ostracized because of 405 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: your skin color. We also know what it's like to 406 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: be written off by others, but use God. He again 407 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,480 Speaker 1: lays out the options the lepers had go into the 408 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: city and die, stay at the gate and die, or 409 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:14,240 Speaker 1: go to the camp and possibly live. At this point, 410 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:18,120 Speaker 1: he does something he wasn't planning on. He takes a 411 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 1: stand on the vaccine. We try to go back to 412 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:26,760 Speaker 1: normal without the vaccine. Handcuffed by the traumatic past that's 413 00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: been inflicted upon us, we'll die. If we stay here 414 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 1: and just hope things will get better and it'll magically disappear, 415 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: then we'll die. But if we take the vaccine, we live. 416 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: Dr Sloan's plans had changed mid sermon. It wasn't enough 417 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 1: for him to tell his congregation to just try and 418 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 1: find the best information about vaccines. He decided to trust 419 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 1: and he died his congregation to do the same. And 420 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,200 Speaker 1: so I get home and my wife goes, so, I 421 00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,640 Speaker 1: guess you just told everybody to take the vaccine. Huh. 422 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 1: And I said, well, I guess I did you know? 423 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: And I think that is what I really didn't want 424 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 1: to accomplish. I wanted to let them know how much 425 00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,760 Speaker 1: confidence I have in it. And I think it's it's 426 00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:26,400 Speaker 1: it's pivotal for us. Doctor Sloan went even further. In February. 427 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,200 Speaker 1: He put out a video that was basically a p 428 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:35,040 Speaker 1: s A for vaccination. Vuci's message to the community was important, 429 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,640 Speaker 1: but it carried even more weight when endorsed by a 430 00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:43,160 Speaker 1: trusted church leader. There's evidence the efforts like this are 431 00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: paying off in the black community. A lot of faith 432 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 1: leaders have spoken out if pastors and faith leaders just 433 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:53,760 Speaker 1: simply continue to waffle about it and not and not 434 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,160 Speaker 1: choose one side of the other, then you're gonna leave 435 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,959 Speaker 1: still a lot of people out there who are still 436 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: sifting through the information with maybe some difficulty and actually 437 00:32:04,520 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: really comprehending it and never really making, you know, a 438 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,680 Speaker 1: proper decision. So I felt like I need to tell 439 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: you where I stand and what I think is is 440 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: important for us. But just like my sermons you know 441 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 1: every Sunday pre vaccine. You know, listen, you can take 442 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 1: it to leave it something. You might not like it, 443 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:32,720 Speaker 1: but here it is, is what I believe. Dr Sloan 444 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: has heard from his congregants that Fauci's talk really made 445 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: a difference for them. I spoke to one of them, 446 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:43,360 Speaker 1: Bloody Coverson, a retired teacher in her sixties who was 447 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,000 Speaker 1: also a deacon at the Luke. One day I would say, 448 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it, and the next day I was like, no, 449 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: I wouldn't think about it for a while. That's what 450 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,880 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take it. I'm gonna take The pandemic has 451 00:32:55,920 --> 00:33:00,640 Speaker 1: been rough for Letty. She feels lonely often and isolated. 452 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: She wants to hug her grandkids and also to stop 453 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: having to explain to them why they can't hug. But 454 00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 1: as much as Letty wants the pandemic to be over, 455 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,479 Speaker 1: she also had lots of concerns about the vaccine. Bloody 456 00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,920 Speaker 1: says she first started to really question whether she wanted 457 00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: to get the shot once vaccines were rolling out. I 458 00:33:22,680 --> 00:33:26,680 Speaker 1: started thinking about it when it became a reality that 459 00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: it was going to happen. That's when I started thinking 460 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,720 Speaker 1: about it. But it was also that in the back 461 00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: of my head, why so fast? How can this be 462 00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:42,400 Speaker 1: done so fast? And I began to think about in 463 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 1: the back of my head the health and equities, um, 464 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:51,000 Speaker 1: all the things that go alonge was maybe being a 465 00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: black female in the history of it. Bloody actually had 466 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: a health scare herself when she was ten. She had 467 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,440 Speaker 1: the measles, but white doctors couldn't figure out what was 468 00:34:02,480 --> 00:34:07,320 Speaker 1: wrong with her and wanted to perform exploratory surgery. I 469 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:10,120 Speaker 1: haven't remember the words today, and they said if you 470 00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,319 Speaker 1: take her from this hospital or she would die. But 471 00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: my mom said, no, I'm taking her for a second opinion, 472 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: and she did it, and the doctor who gave us. 473 00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: The second opinion say it straight up if they had 474 00:34:25,640 --> 00:34:28,799 Speaker 1: operated on her, and they would have killed her. In 475 00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 1: the end, it turned out she didn't need surgery, She 476 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:35,719 Speaker 1: just needed a few days to recover. The doctors had 477 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:39,440 Speaker 1: almost opened her up for no reason. Bloody had been 478 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,800 Speaker 1: put in danger by doctors in the past, so now 479 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:49,799 Speaker 1: she wondered, why trust them, remembering that experience that I 480 00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 1: had when I was keen, and that's still there. So 481 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:56,919 Speaker 1: she just kept going back and forth, deciding to take 482 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,680 Speaker 1: it and then deciding not to. And then she heard 483 00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: the Sunday sermon with Fouci Like Dr Sloan, it really 484 00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,520 Speaker 1: stood out to her that he recognized what the black 485 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: community has been through, and he talked about other medical 486 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 1: issues that are generational, some of them um diabetes, blood 487 00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: pressure hard and it's because of the inequities, and it's 488 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: also because of the jobs that we have. And I 489 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:33,400 Speaker 1: want people to really understand and hone in on why 490 00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:39,120 Speaker 1: why it is happening to us more often, and it's 491 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:50,120 Speaker 1: not our fault. It's not our fault. So Leotty got vaccinated. 492 00:35:51,120 --> 00:35:55,000 Speaker 1: She's had both her shots, and she says she felt 493 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: a little fear before she did it, but she did 494 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: it anyway, and then she went home and told her 495 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 1: family about it, many of whom had also been hesitant 496 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,000 Speaker 1: to take the vaccine. One of her sons actually went 497 00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:11,719 Speaker 1: to Tuskegee University for college, and she told me he 498 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: was afraid of going to the clinic there. The Syphilist 499 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 1: study loomed over it. And if I got my vaccine, 500 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:28,000 Speaker 1: my son didn't want to. My husband, Yes, my daughter's 501 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:32,560 Speaker 1: going to get her some My oldest son and his 502 00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 1: wife had COVID, so they have to wait. They they 503 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,840 Speaker 1: are going to take the vaccine. This gets what Stephen 504 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,719 Speaker 1: Thomas was talking about. Even if your barber isn't an 505 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,759 Speaker 1: mp D, you might trust his advice more than your doctor. 506 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,839 Speaker 1: Or in this case, you might trust your mom, who 507 00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,880 Speaker 1: trusted her reverend, who in turn decided to trust a 508 00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 1: healthcare official who took the time I'm to listen and 509 00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:06,480 Speaker 1: address community concerns. A lot of work went into convincing 510 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: Letty to get vaccinated, but it paid off. She even 511 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,360 Speaker 1: blogged about it. I want to say I did it, 512 00:37:16,680 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 1: and I'm still here and nothing adverse has happened. And 513 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,800 Speaker 1: I used this analogy about Peter in the boat, and 514 00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: he asked Jesus, can I come, And Jesus said, get 515 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,160 Speaker 1: out the boat. And Peter was the only one to 516 00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: get out the boat to come to Jesus. But then 517 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 1: doubt came across and and he fear, and he began, 518 00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,600 Speaker 1: he began to drown. But I tell the people I 519 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: talked to, I'm getting out the boat. I'm getting at 520 00:37:52,560 --> 00:38:05,520 Speaker 1: the boat. Letty got out of the boat, she got 521 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:12,839 Speaker 1: her shot. The majority of Americans are facing this very 522 00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: same choice for the first time as vaccines become available 523 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:23,880 Speaker 1: to everyone. In the series, we've shown how mistrust and 524 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:29,520 Speaker 1: misinformation conspire to make people hesitant and how some people 525 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:33,800 Speaker 1: are working to solve that problem. On the series finale 526 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: of Doubt, we'll take a look at where things stand 527 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,640 Speaker 1: and if enough people are getting vaccinated that we can 528 00:38:40,680 --> 00:39:12,000 Speaker 1: finally go back to normal. Doubt is written and reported 529 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:16,080 Speaker 1: by me Kristin V. Brown To for Foreheads is our 530 00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:21,480 Speaker 1: senior producer. Molly Nugent is our associate producer. Our theme 531 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,680 Speaker 1: was composed and performed by Hannis Brown. Special thanks to 532 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:30,520 Speaker 1: Bloomberg editors Tim Annette and Rick Shine. Francesco Levi is 533 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,560 Speaker 1: the head of Bloomberg Podcast. Be sure to subscribe to prognosis. 534 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: If you haven't already, and if you like our show, 535 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 1: please leave us A review helps others find out about 536 00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,120 Speaker 1: the show. Thanks for listening, See you next time.