Speaker 1: My name is Sean McEwan, and I'm the writer, director
Speaker 1: of one of the producers of the feature film American Outlaws,
Speaker 1: which is coming out in select theaters on Friday, September fifteenth.
Speaker 2: You can also see it from the comfort of your own.
Speaker 1: Home on video on demand Apple, iTunes and Amazon, etc.
Speaker 1: The Dockerty Gang is a feature film story based on
Speaker 1: the true life events of three siblings, Ryan Doherty, Dylan Doherty,
Speaker 1: and league raceed Docerty who back in a little over
Speaker 1: a decade ago, they went on a cross country crime
Speaker 1: spree where they were robbing banks, and each one of
Speaker 1: them are currently serving an excessive amount of time thirty
Speaker 1: plus years in three separate federal prisons. The reason I'm
Speaker 1: here today is for a couple of reasons. One is
Speaker 1: we do have a feature film is coming out selects on.
Speaker 2: The fifteenth of September Friday.
Speaker 1: Also, it will be available for home viewing in the
Speaker 1: VOD video on demand space. You can go to Apple,
Speaker 1: Amazon and check out the film. We think it's an
Speaker 1: extraordinary film because it does fit that true crime space.
Speaker 1: Based on a true story, I had the very good opportunity,
Speaker 1: as people might recollect from the podcast of working and
Speaker 1: getting to know directly the actual individuals that were involved
Speaker 1: in the real true events, including Ryan, Lee Grace, and Dylan,
Speaker 1: got very close with each of them, close with some
Speaker 1: of their family members and some of the other.
Speaker 2: Individuals that were involved in the story.
Speaker 1: What's interesting about talking today in particular is the fact
Speaker 1: that there are some updates just to kind of see
Speaker 1: where things have gone from the original events that we
Speaker 1: portrayed in the earlier episodes of the podcast. You know,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of time has passed, a lot of change,
Speaker 1: a lot of growth, which I kind of find interesting
Speaker 1: even from a psychological standpoint, a human interest standpoint. I'll
Speaker 1: start with Lee Grace. Lee Grace has definitely acclimated, I think,
Speaker 1: to the prison life, if you will. Each of the
Speaker 1: siblings are currently still facing various charges, not all the
Speaker 1: same charges, of various charges with some other states. Again,
Speaker 1: even a decade later, this is still ongoing legal problems
Speaker 1: and issues and complications that they did cross state lines
Speaker 1: which created a federal dynamic here that they have to
Speaker 1: deal with, so that still hangs over their head. As
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier, they're each serving terms that are roughly
Speaker 1: between thirty and thirty five years a piece. So they
Speaker 1: do have the opportunity to eventually pay their debt to
Speaker 1: society and get out of prison. However, they will be
Speaker 1: much more advanced in age obviously at that point.
Speaker 2: So back to Lee.
Speaker 1: Grace in particular, I think she's acclimated quite nicely to
Speaker 1: the prison system. She's made a lot of friends, she
Speaker 1: has some contacts and some penpals, shall we call them,
Speaker 1: on the outside. I think that's kind of her lifeline.
Speaker 1: I think a big part of the story and the
Speaker 1: thing that interested all of us from the beginning is family.
Speaker 1: She still is very connected to her brothers, as in
Speaker 1: contact with them on a fairly regular basis.
Speaker 2: They write letters to each other.
Speaker 1: That's obviously the primary way that they're able to communicate,
Speaker 1: or to communicate through other family and friends and to
Speaker 1: kind of you pass messages on in the word on,
Speaker 1: check in on and those kinds of things.
Speaker 2: But it still is that that mantra family first.
Speaker 1: They all still talk like that and how important family
Speaker 1: is to them and how much they love each other,
Speaker 1: and that's a big part of it.
Speaker 2: I think then.
Speaker 1: For Dylan has one time he was in South Carolina,
Speaker 1: He's moved around a bit. He's currently in a federal
Speaker 1: prison in Wisconsin. That's a little challenging because he's far
Speaker 1: away from his home base where some of his relatives
Speaker 1: are more in the Florida area, including his nephew Eric,
Speaker 1: who's Ryan's son. So I know that's challenging for him.
Speaker 1: If I'm staying this correctly on his behalf, I think
Speaker 1: he's hoping at some point to get everything kind of
Speaker 1: taken care of and then he can hopefully make some
Speaker 1: kind of transfer a little closer to home base and
Speaker 1: again where he has that support system in place. But
Speaker 1: I'd say he's even, dare I say a tough cookie.
Speaker 1: It sounds like an oxymoron of a statement, but he's
Speaker 1: thriving in the position that he's in.
Speaker 2: I find him. This is my personal opinion.
Speaker 1: If I dare say that, he's very conciliatory and repentive
Speaker 1: if you will, about the events that occurred. He's, you know,
Speaker 1: understands he has to pay his debt to society. I
Speaker 1: think all the siblings have a perspective, and I know
Speaker 1: the argument can be made, who wouldn't that I've used
Speaker 1: the word excessive. I don't mean to bleed my own
Speaker 1: opinion to this, but you know, they got a lot
Speaker 1: of time. They deserve to be in prison. I think
Speaker 1: we can all agree on that. But they definitely got
Speaker 1: the book pretty thrown at them, and the argument could
Speaker 1: be made again, I'm not trying to politicize anything that
Speaker 1: people have done a lot worse crimes than gotten less time.
Speaker 1: But that being said, they did some things that were
Speaker 1: not good, that were bad, and people, while they weren't hurt,
Speaker 1: could have gotten very seriously hurt or even killed. And
Speaker 1: they do, you know, again, deserve to be where they are.
Speaker 1: I'm seeing and I've known them now for oh gosh,
Speaker 1: I want to say eight plus years, seeing change, seeing growth,
Speaker 1: seeing kids turn into adults, and that's been fascinating to
Speaker 1: see that, to see that perspective, that wisdom, that understanding
Speaker 1: has been really interesting to see, but exciting to see too,
Speaker 1: just that growth. I think then specifically, Ryan, who probably
Speaker 1: has the most complicated might recall from the story and
Speaker 1: you'd see this portrayed in the film as well, that
Speaker 1: he had a you know, his girlfriend at the time
Speaker 1: was pregnant with his soon to be born son, Eric,
Speaker 1: and you know Eric is now ten or eleven.
Speaker 2: I know that he is able to do as I.
Speaker 1: Understand it, calls video calls, and that's been very helpful,
Speaker 1: and without saying too much to also protect a little
Speaker 1: bit of the privacy of everybody, is that Ryan is
Speaker 1: currently serving time now. He was in all the way
Speaker 1: in Arizona for quite some time, but he was able
Speaker 1: to get transferred to closer to home and where his
Speaker 1: family is, which is in the state of Florida, So
Speaker 1: that's been a real I think game changer for him.
Speaker 1: He's probably I don't think he'd mind me saying this,
Speaker 1: but struggle the most in the sense that prison life's
Speaker 1: been really hard for him. I think his personality type
Speaker 1: being the younger sibling, not that he isn't tough in
Speaker 1: his own way, but probably was the biggest m path
Speaker 1: of the group. So you can imagine adjusting to, you know,
Speaker 1: basically looking at the rest of your life and incarceration
Speaker 1: has been a really hard one for him.
Speaker 2: Without saying too much about this, but I know they
Speaker 2: mentioned this.
Speaker 1: A couple of the siblings have definitely struggled with drug
Speaker 1: use with how prison life works. But currently I'm happy
Speaker 1: to say that everybody is clean and living a healthy
Speaker 1: lifestyle in that way for now, which is great. I
Speaker 1: know that that makes the rest of the family, you know,
Speaker 1: feel very good too. I've been also in touch in
Speaker 1: somewhat recent history also with their mother. You know, she
Speaker 1: is still very close with all of them, keeps in
Speaker 1: direct contact. I think, without saying too much that you know,
Speaker 1: she also like, look, these are my kids, and it's
Speaker 1: as tragic. She acknowledges and knows they did some bad things,
Speaker 1: but I think she'd love to see them being able
Speaker 1: to make something of their lives and move on with
Speaker 1: their lives and come out of this better or more
Speaker 1: evolved grown up people, hopefully not serving as much time
Speaker 1: as they are. And I think that kind of brings
Speaker 1: us to one of the last points is is there
Speaker 1: a way for them to maybe you know, hyper accelerate
Speaker 1: some of the time that they're serving so that they
Speaker 1: can have paid their debt to society but actually do
Speaker 1: something in their lives and contribute to society. I know
Speaker 1: that's something that they all express wanting to do. I
Speaker 1: think for anybody who gets the opportunity to really to
Speaker 1: have listened to the podcast can kind.
Speaker 2: Of see all shades and hues of it.
Speaker 1: I think that's interested to us in the story and
Speaker 1: myself as a filmmaker also was there was a lot
Speaker 1: of ambiguity in this. It's not the good guys are
Speaker 1: wearing white hats, the bad guys wearing black hats.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of the in between.
Speaker 1: I think seeing one of the big I hate to
Speaker 1: use a word, but messages is that there's a huge
Speaker 1: swath of the population that is very unrealized, that is
Speaker 1: very marginalized. Not listen to not recognize, yes, is maybe
Speaker 1: a listener could tell interested in hearing this. I've gotten
Speaker 1: close with them, so it's challenging for me to separate
Speaker 1: myself at times. But we try to do our best
Speaker 1: with that and try to relay this story and their
Speaker 1: plight and their story also in the film telling as well,
Speaker 1: so that the audience can kind of make up their
Speaker 1: own mind about it. I think the big takeaway is that, yeah,
Speaker 1: please familiarize yourself if you've already listened to the podcast, obviously,
Speaker 1: if also getting a chance to see the film kind
Speaker 1: of see it traumatized and realized. We try to keep
Speaker 1: this close to true events. Obviously, have to trunk certain
Speaker 1: things because we're telling a story in a little less
Speaker 1: than twoever, but you know, hearing it from shall we
Speaker 1: see the horse's mouth of the people that lived the experience,
Speaker 1: is also looking at from even the law enforcement side
Speaker 1: and the challenges they faced, and also kind of fulfilling them,
Speaker 1: portraying them, I hope to see fully complex. So it's
Speaker 1: not just like these federal agents just you know, chasing
Speaker 1: the bad guy and how all that kind of you
Speaker 1: know comes into focused and kind of a lens of
Speaker 1: yeah and discussions. So I think they've had a lot
Speaker 1: of time to think about what they did. Not the excuse,
Speaker 1: but they were quite young when they made the decisions
Speaker 1: that they made. And again I will say in underline
Speaker 1: is that they deserve to pay for those mistakes that
Speaker 1: they made.
Speaker 2: But I think at this point, look.
Speaker 1: I think they've all been learning different vocations while in prison,
Speaker 1: and they all even prior to prison had certain skill
Speaker 1: sets to where they could actually get decent jobs and
Speaker 1: you know still you know, live a solid life in
Speaker 1: that way coming back together as a family, and that
Speaker 1: appreciation for at the end of the day, they're kind
Speaker 1: of all they have and being each other's lives in
Speaker 1: a realistic and tangible sense, not behind bars, not behind
Speaker 1: just letters that can get to each other every now
Speaker 1: and then, and the occasional word from another family member
Speaker 1: is really important.
Speaker 2: I do know.
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm giving way too much of personal information,
Speaker 1: But Dylan has talked about an interesting kind of sense
Speaker 1: of humor about like, oh maybe I'm maybe I'll be
Speaker 1: too old to do it, but maybe I could still, like,
Speaker 1: you know, produce a child, an offspring, you know, or something.
Speaker 1: So I think that's something.
Speaker 2: That they would like. But then, you know, I have
Speaker 2: to be honest with you.
Speaker 1: You can sense the tragedy and all because as much
Speaker 1: as there's dreams and if anybody's ever had the chance
Speaker 1: talks on prison, you know, I think there becomes this
Speaker 1: like man, time passes, people move on, lives change, People
Speaker 1: that were in your life aren't in your life anymore,
Speaker 1: can't necessarily and won't necessarily stand by you for that
Speaker 1: long period of time.
Speaker 2: Certain family members unfortunately pass and so things really do change.
Speaker 1: I think for them it's having solid jobs, working, making
Speaker 1: a clean living. And you know, also from a self standpoint,
Speaker 1: if we can talk like that, I think each of
Speaker 1: them the obvious thing just being happy and content, and
Speaker 1: this is the most important thing, I'll say, being free.
Speaker 1: It sounds so contrived to say that, like, of.
Speaker 2: Course in prison, of course they wouldn't be free.
Speaker 1: But you know, that's a big thing that we explore
Speaker 1: in the film, but also we really touched on the podcast,
Speaker 1: was we came to this conclusion through the journey of
Speaker 1: interviewing all the people and interviewing them, that these were
Speaker 1: kids that were looking for freedom. They weren't looking for
Speaker 1: freedom to necessarily let's do what we want anarchy and
Speaker 1: cause have it, to just have a break, to have
Speaker 1: the opportunity to like stretch their wings and live whatever
Speaker 1: their the concept of the American dream might be to
Speaker 1: be able to breathe, to be able to like kind
Speaker 1: of write your own ticket, to be able to work
Speaker 1: a hard day's work but also get remunerated for that
Speaker 1: and not have everything constantly working against them. That and
Speaker 1: I think that's a really important thing for them, and
Speaker 1: I think they still crave that in so many ways.
Speaker 1: And again, the irony is they went on this trip
Speaker 1: to begin with, they called it a trip, almost like
Speaker 1: a family trip, and it turned in and spun out
Speaker 1: it contleasly to this crime spree. They were, you know,
Speaker 1: they were searching for something more, something better, and I
Speaker 1: think it's something that's innately and all of us as
Speaker 1: even Americans, is that go west, young man, young woman,
Speaker 1: finds your way, like make your way in the world
Speaker 1: and do something great and find freedom and breathe the clean.
Speaker 2: Air and you know and all that. And I think
Speaker 2: they're still searching for that. Unfortunately, I don't know if
Speaker 2: I can stay I have the laboratually find it. From
Speaker 2: the very first time you contacted them, what kind of
Speaker 2: growth have you seen from them already?
Speaker 1: Well, distinctly what I've seen, what I've had the opportunity
Speaker 1: to see, and even the blessing in some way, if
Speaker 1: you will, to see, which was not expected. I didn't
Speaker 1: know one hundred percent what I was getting into when
Speaker 1: I got into this, to be the objective was, you know,
Speaker 1: at the onset was like, wow, there's an interesting story here.
Speaker 1: We idied, like we should explore this and look at
Speaker 1: developing it and then you never know when you go
Speaker 1: down these rabbit holes where it'll take you. And it's
Speaker 1: definitely I had the interesting and good fortune to see
Speaker 1: was to get to know Ryan, Dylan Grace. But see
Speaker 1: them and that's not to make an excuse about anything,
Speaker 1: but they were young people, you know, Ryan being nineteen,
Speaker 1: I think Dylan being like twenty three ish twenty four,
Speaker 1: and lead Grace.
Speaker 2: Being a year older than that. You know, in any ways.
Speaker 1: Are command You're still just find your way in the world,
Speaker 1: you know, And and they still were kids, you know,
Speaker 1: they still were looking at it through that lens, and
Speaker 1: I think in some way there was an ia there.
Speaker 1: I think they started to, oh, man, we screwed up.
Speaker 1: There's you know, we've got to a lot take care
Speaker 1: of and pay for here. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I don't think they realize what that would look like
Speaker 1: and just time to think and to have believe it
Speaker 1: or not. Responsibilities in prison I should say this. You
Speaker 1: know they are they each have jobs while in prison,
Speaker 1: and they go to work. They have hours that they
Speaker 1: have to go and schedules that they have to adhere to.
Speaker 2: I think some of that is even for mental health.
Speaker 2: It keeps you kind of again their words, kind.
Speaker 1: Of sane to have that to do, and I think
Speaker 1: that's really taught them a lot, and they become adults
Speaker 1: and I've seen that growth.
Speaker 2: I think those are the major changes.
Speaker 1: Is and really perspective, the opportunity to look back at
Speaker 1: what they did and go man like I and I'm
Speaker 1: speaking as if I'm them. I can see why I
Speaker 1: made the decisions I made. I see where I excuse my.
Speaker 2: Friends where I fucked up.
Speaker 1: But at the same time, how can I learn from that?
Speaker 1: How can I grow from that? And I think there
Speaker 1: are regrets. I think again comes with digestion and addition
Speaker 1: on your life and what you've done. I don't know
Speaker 1: they have made the same decisions. I kind of think
Speaker 1: they wouldn't have. I think the thing that is constant,
Speaker 1: for better or for worse, is to do almost anything
Speaker 1: to protect each other. Who might remember from the podcast,
Speaker 1: and we touch on this in the movies that they
Speaker 1: had a heart upbringing exceptionally heard upbringing, and won't get
Speaker 1: you much away about that, the sense of really being
Speaker 1: so tight knit that they were very protective of each other,
Speaker 1: and that still that still remains, that has not wavered
Speaker 1: at all. So I think those are the that's kind
Speaker 1: of the evolution that I've seen is, you know, the
Speaker 1: interesting arc to see that, especially in this context of
Speaker 1: the giting incident, of all them being on the run
Speaker 1: and eventually be captured, but spending this length of.
Speaker 2: Time and incarcerated.
Speaker 1: If I was going to break this down from an
Speaker 1: armchair psychologists standpoint of where things are today, what's news
Speaker 1: since we listened to the whole podcast, and where we
Speaker 1: are today as of right now. What I've observed and
Speaker 1: noticed is that each one of these three siblings, their
Speaker 1: character has not necessarily changed. It's almost magnified over time.
Speaker 1: And in that I find personally a bit of tragedy
Speaker 1: and sadness and seeing some of that. I don't mean
Speaker 1: to leave this on like a downer from my perspective
Speaker 1: of having had the opportunity to know that this period
Speaker 1: of time, my responsibility as a writer is to try
Speaker 1: to deserve the human condition, the human experience and story
Speaker 1: and get to know these characters. I am again not
Speaker 1: purporting myself to be kind of any kind of psychologist
Speaker 1: or an expert.
Speaker 2: I am not, so this is just a layman's perspective.
Speaker 1: But I think just noticing the characters that we portray
Speaker 1: in the film, that we also obviously get to know
Speaker 1: on the podcast, you kind of saw their aids magnified
Speaker 1: where they are today.
Speaker 2: This is what's different today is that.
Speaker 1: It's more there's growth, so they become adults, but you
Speaker 1: still see those same characteristics of the young Dylan Lee
Speaker 1: Grayson Ryan for example, Dylan. Dylan always had all the
Speaker 1: responsibility on his shoulders. He had to be the strong one,
Speaker 1: he had to take care of his younger siblings. So
Speaker 1: when doing so, you still see that now, like he's
Speaker 1: he hasn't let the system of you know, incarceration or
Speaker 1: the prison. He's he's found a way to thrive in there.
Speaker 1: As I was saying earlier, you'll hear him manning up
Speaker 1: and being a man.
Speaker 2: And I mean no disrespect in saying this, striving.
Speaker 1: To be wanted, to be desired, someone who wants to
Speaker 1: fit in, who is a very strong person, but also
Speaker 1: is searching for something. You can feel that as a
Speaker 1: young person. Again, we see this in the movie, we
Speaker 1: heard this in the podcast buts but even today is
Speaker 1: searching for something, searching like searching to be loved.
Speaker 2: And she's still doing that. She still is. I'm gonna
Speaker 2: be blunt here, but you know, I.
Speaker 1: Think Lee Grace is still even using you know her
Speaker 1: there's a better, more appropriate way of saying this, but
Speaker 1: feminine ways to you know, attract and connectivity on the
Speaker 1: outside and to communicate with people and have relationships and
Speaker 1: and that's very important to her.
Speaker 2: That probably seems to be one of her driving cores
Speaker 2: and a way, and I bring that up not that
Speaker 2: there's not.
Speaker 1: More to who she is as a person, and you know,
Speaker 1: you still see the repercussions of that, you know, in
Speaker 1: her personality and how she conducts herself with interfacing with
Speaker 1: other people.
Speaker 2: And then with Ryan, look, you know, he was the
Speaker 2: one that was a little more led. He was led
Speaker 2: by the other two.
Speaker 1: He was as the youngest, you know, constantly trying to
Speaker 1: pull himself up by his own breeches or siblings were
Speaker 1: trying to pull him if you can kind of picture
Speaker 1: that figuratively speaking, and trying to keep up. And you
Speaker 1: can still see that. I mean, he is a very
Speaker 1: very smart person. Actually, I would say he has a
Speaker 1: very high IQ, but also is as much as he's
Speaker 1: streets smarts, there's certain categories where he still seems kind
Speaker 1: of kidlike and he's still trying to catch up. And
Speaker 1: I think that has made the prison experience in particular
Speaker 1: extremely difficult on him.
Speaker 2: I think he's had the hardest time.
Speaker 1: So those are the things that I've seen and you
Speaker 1: look at them and I can still see the kids
Speaker 1: in them. I can still see the kids that had
Speaker 1: all the promise in the world. And I mean the
Speaker 1: kids even when they were kids, when we're talking about
Speaker 1: when they were seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven, because we
Speaker 1: touch on all those things and there's still hope and promise.
Speaker 1: But yet there are situation, their familial situation and the
Speaker 1: things that they were dealing with personally and also again
Speaker 1: their station in life, their socioeconomic status. There, you know,
Speaker 1: disintegration of the family nucleus, all those things that contributed to,
Speaker 1: you know, not the best situation for growing up. You
Speaker 1: could still see the remnants of that even as they
Speaker 1: are adults. Would love for you guys to see the
Speaker 1: film because it is based on a true story and
Speaker 1: true events, and you know, it's always what's behind the
Speaker 1: headlines that seems to be the most interesting and the
Speaker 1: most important and most impactful. While it's entertaining and dare
Speaker 1: I say it has all the salacious bells and whistles
Speaker 1: of the sex, drugs and rock and roll of this
Speaker 1: cross country crime spree that was enacted by these three siblings,
Speaker 1: there was much more to the story that impacted real
Speaker 1: lives and continues to impact real lives to this, including
Speaker 1: the real siblings who are currently in prison for the
Speaker 1: rest of their lives for the most part, so love
Speaker 1: for you to take a look at it and kind
Speaker 1: of make your own opinion on your perspective on the
Speaker 1: docrts and their story.