Speaker 1: We've removed our menus. We do have the art and
Speaker 1: of using paper menus. This wholeful lines the current menus
Speaker 1: that we've always used because they are laminated and they're
Speaker 1: very easily sanitized right after our customer uses them. And
Speaker 1: also to use the digital artsis on their home, they
Speaker 1: can just scan a QR code and have the menu
Speaker 1: pap right up for another Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics,
Speaker 1: the podcast that brings the global economy to you. And
Speaker 1: this week we're in a waffle House in Brookhaven, Georgia.
Speaker 1: What you just heard was company spokeswoman Neary Boss explaining
Speaker 1: how they're going to make waffle eating a socially distant activity.
Speaker 1: And the past week, the state governor of Georgia, Brian Kemp,
Speaker 1: has given restaurants like waffle House the green light to reopen. Also,
Speaker 1: tattoo parlors and Jim's. Federal health officials thought it was
Speaker 1: too soon, so did the mayor of Atlanta, so did
Speaker 1: President Trump. But the governor ignored all of them and
Speaker 1: went ahead with the reopening. He's not the only policymaker
Speaker 1: to ignore expert advice. Since the COVID crisis hit, we've
Speaker 1: seen quite a lot of governments try to ban the
Speaker 1: export of food or key medical supplies, for example, despite
Speaker 1: official advice to keep trade flowing and borders open. In
Speaker 1: a little while, i'll talk to the economist Richard Baldwin
Speaker 1: about economic nationalism in a crisis and whether it ever
Speaker 1: makes sense. Keep listening if you want to find out
Speaker 1: the answer and how it all relates to Alexander the Great.
Speaker 1: But first I want to hear more about those waffles.
Speaker 1: Mike Sasso is Bloomberg Real Economy reporter based in Atlanta,
Speaker 1: and he's gone to see for himself. So it turns
Speaker 1: out you're at the cutting edge of the reopening of America.
Speaker 1: Tell us about what's opened up in Georgia the last
Speaker 1: few days and what people think about it. Sure, the
Speaker 1: Governor of Georgia controversially came up with a opening plan
Speaker 1: for the state of Georgia in which he allowed some
Speaker 1: tattoo parlors, nail salons, gymnasiums, and barbershops to open up
Speaker 1: last Friday, and then he was going to be allowed
Speaker 1: for some restaurants in movie theaters actually to open up Monday. Now,
Speaker 1: you went to a waffle house, which I know is
Speaker 1: is pretty popular in some quarters. It's a great place
Speaker 1: to go late night after a show. Tell me what
Speaker 1: it was like with with the people there. Did you
Speaker 1: have a waffle I I didn't. It was a there
Speaker 1: were not many people there actually over there. I was
Speaker 1: there for you know, perhaps about an hour Monday morning,
Speaker 1: and they had they had just opened a couple hours
Speaker 1: earlier than that, um and when I was there, there
Speaker 1: were maybe three people who wandered in and getting take
Speaker 1: out orders. There was nobody actually at the restaurants sitting
Speaker 1: down and eating. Now, some of that, to be sure,
Speaker 1: may have there was. It was quite a scene where
Speaker 1: where it was quite a number of local and national
Speaker 1: media there to document people as they wandered in. So
Speaker 1: it's it's possible that some people would just camera shy
Speaker 1: and stayed away. I did venture out to another waffle
Speaker 1: house that was not the scene of such a media frenzy,
Speaker 1: and there were about two people sitting at the counter.
Speaker 1: There was another man enjoying some coffee and unfurling a
Speaker 1: newspaper at a booth. You know, certainly not a ton
Speaker 1: of people. I did speak with one gentleman. He had
Speaker 1: kind of left the kids in the suv while he
Speaker 1: ran in to pick up his takeout order. He believes
Speaker 1: that within a week or two he and his his
Speaker 1: whole family of four kids and a wife would probably
Speaker 1: venture in for dine in service. And I I think
Speaker 1: that's probably what you're going to see here in Georgia,
Speaker 1: as over time people are going to start getting bolder,
Speaker 1: just like this gentleman was in. They'll start with perhaps
Speaker 1: a takeout order than perhaps in a few days or
Speaker 1: a week, I think you'll see them start to venture in.
Speaker 1: And we are starting to see a surprising number of
Speaker 1: restaurants like waffle House, Um out Back Steakhouse, another huge
Speaker 1: American chain, is opening its units in Georgia as well.
Speaker 1: And so while you've seen some opposition amongst sort of
Speaker 1: prominent high end restaurants in Atlanta, some of these more
Speaker 1: mainstream outlets have opened and are going full full bore. Well, Mike,
Speaker 1: I hadn't thought about the added risk to your health
Speaker 1: and social distancing of having large numbers of reporters all
Speaker 1: around you as you try and order your your waffle.
Speaker 1: That's a whole extra hazard for all these people. But
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll talk a bit about the politics of
Speaker 1: it in a minute, but it is I know the
Speaker 1: conversation you had with the representative from the waffle House,
Speaker 1: which is this big national chain. You know they're taking
Speaker 1: it pretty seriously in terms of the steps they have
Speaker 1: to take to make this safe. I guess it'd be
Speaker 1: nice to hear that conversation you had with her now
Speaker 1: run through the steps that you've taken again too. Okay,
Speaker 1: about six weeks ago, when we were limited take out only,
Speaker 1: we all and and social distancing had been recommended. We
Speaker 1: took those steps to heart. We actually had locations in
Speaker 1: the store on the floor, located where customers could come
Speaker 1: in and stand. They were very respectful of that. When
Speaker 1: they came into place, their warders wait for their food.
Speaker 1: If they needed to wait outside, we had six ft
Speaker 1: of distance outside, a couple of chairs outside on our
Speaker 1: front porch. We also took our condiments off at that
Speaker 1: time six weeks ago, off of the tables, so we've
Speaker 1: kept that as well. And of course our associates are
Speaker 1: wearing their masks. As a restaurant, we've always had food
Speaker 1: safety protocols that we've had to follow in place. That
Speaker 1: includes regular hand washing. Folks have been really respectful of that.
Speaker 1: Employees are probably bound to be a little bit nervous
Speaker 1: about plumbing contact where customers. How did you treat the employees?
Speaker 1: Were they able to say, no, I'm not ready to
Speaker 1: come in yet. How did you treat that with him?
Speaker 1: Of course, we're not asking anyone to come in who
Speaker 1: wasn't ready or comfortable in the covering U they weren't
Speaker 1: ready to come in, We went and talked to to
Speaker 1: associates who were ready and willing and able. Most of
Speaker 1: these folks have been with us already. In the six weeks.
Speaker 1: We tried to keep on as many associates as possible working.
Speaker 1: But if someone said does hey, I'm I just don't
Speaker 1: feel safe or I don't feel comfortable or whatever the reason,
Speaker 1: maybe maybe childcare because the daycarees are closed schools or
Speaker 1: closed that they needed to stay home. So we said
Speaker 1: that's fine. Could they keep their jobs or how would
Speaker 1: you treat their jobs if they didn't want to come
Speaker 1: in yet. Well, we furloughed several people, over a thousand
Speaker 1: UH managers. We furlowed three hundred and fifty folks from
Speaker 1: our support team, which includes the corporate office and those
Speaker 1: who worked in the field. And so we haven't at
Speaker 1: this point brought back furloughed folks yet, but these were
Speaker 1: individuals either were working very few hours for us already.
Speaker 1: If in the opera two, you maybe have a few
Speaker 1: more hours. We're hoping that with this limited dine in
Speaker 1: service option that we will see the kind of response
Speaker 1: from the customers that will allow us to bring more
Speaker 1: associates back to work, more shifts that can be open
Speaker 1: throughout the day. This doesn't seem like a lot of people.
Speaker 1: I didn't see anyone in there dining in. You maybe
Speaker 1: you saw a couple take out? Is that how it's
Speaker 1: going so far? When I came on this morning at
Speaker 1: about seven fifty this morning, there was a gentleman sitting
Speaker 1: at the high counter enjoying his meal. He finished and
Speaker 1: he left. We had two more people come in, sit
Speaker 1: down and enjoy their meals, but most of it has
Speaker 1: been take out, as it has been for the past
Speaker 1: six weeks. We weren't expecting that we were going to
Speaker 1: be overwhelmed with customer demand. Customer demand right away. We
Speaker 1: know it's gonna take some time. We're just hoping that
Speaker 1: people goes, especially those who come in and they've seen
Speaker 1: they've been coming in and getting take out, that maybe
Speaker 1: instead of eating in their cars or taking it all
Speaker 1: the way back home. We're taking into their job, or
Speaker 1: take a few more minutes to sit down and enjoy
Speaker 1: a hot meal. And just last question, and uh, take
Speaker 1: me through the deliberations of all why they chose to
Speaker 1: reopen what well went what we're what was in the
Speaker 1: decision making process. Well, like I said, we've always been open.
Speaker 1: We've only unfortunately had the closed seven hundred stores nationwide. Uh, temporarily,
Speaker 1: We hope the decision is very simple. There are two
Speaker 1: sides to this equation. One is the very real public
Speaker 1: health crisis of the virus and how it's affected people.
Speaker 1: The other half is the brewing public health crisis that
Speaker 1: is coming because of people who are unable to earn
Speaker 1: a living, the despair that comes from that, the inability
Speaker 1: to take care of the obligations that don't stop. So
Speaker 1: we really want to be there for our associates to
Speaker 1: allow those who want work, who are able to work,
Speaker 1: to come back to work. Mike, it's striking because we
Speaker 1: spoke last week to Sharon chen Uh, the bureau chief
Speaker 1: in Beijing, about her time in Wuhan, and it was
Speaker 1: quite a different story that the businesses were opened up,
Speaker 1: but really no one was going into the restaurants, and
Speaker 1: they didn't seem to be a great desire to go
Speaker 1: out and consume. I wonder if that's just the very
Speaker 1: different experience that Wuhan had or is it almost a
Speaker 1: cultural difference that people, maybe particularly in Georgia, do feel
Speaker 1: a bit more libertarian, a bit more determined to go
Speaker 1: out and exercise their freedoms. How do you think that
Speaker 1: that the politics of exiting lockdown is going to work
Speaker 1: in in your state? Yeah, I I do. I do.
Speaker 1: There's an interesting political component to all this. More libertarian
Speaker 1: in conservative minded folks are being a little bit more
Speaker 1: willing to get out and explore and get out of
Speaker 1: the house and frequent some of these businesses. We certainly
Speaker 1: saw that when I visited Cartersville, Georgia, a small town
Speaker 1: up or North Georgia, it tends to be more conservative.
Speaker 1: Those folks wondered what the fuss was all about, uh,
Speaker 1: and they were eager to get out here. In Atlanta,
Speaker 1: which is a little bit more liberal, there is a
Speaker 1: sense of of more caution. So there are certain you know,
Speaker 1: certainly range of opinions. I think one of the more
Speaker 1: interesting things that I've found is there's an element of
Speaker 1: competition here that I think will weigh on business owners
Speaker 1: I did hear from. I have heard from businesses that
Speaker 1: didn't want to open up this quickly, but they're seeing
Speaker 1: their competing businesses open and so they're being sort of
Speaker 1: forced to open. I heard that from a gym owner
Speaker 1: um in Cartersville, Georgia, who wanted to wait another couple
Speaker 1: of weeks. However, competing gym's were starting to open, and
Speaker 1: so he had to open. And in fact, interestingly, he's
Speaker 1: actually done fairly well by opening. He was shocked learned
Speaker 1: that he had picked up thirteen additional fitness center customers
Speaker 1: who were defecting from a gym that didn't open this
Speaker 1: past Friday. So there are people who want to get
Speaker 1: out in Those people may be voting with their pocketbooks
Speaker 1: in some case by helping those businesses that choose to
Speaker 1: to open earlier. And I do have to worry a
Speaker 1: little bit about that competition. You talked about the national
Speaker 1: restaurant chains maybe a little bit easier for them to
Speaker 1: establish careful protocols and get hold of all of the
Speaker 1: protective equipment for their employees than these small time restaurants
Speaker 1: who will feel they have to open up because the
Speaker 1: big guys have opened up. So you have to wonder
Speaker 1: what the what the implications will be. And also I
Speaker 1: guess the what's the what's the threshold at which people
Speaker 1: start to change their mind if it looks like the
Speaker 1: coronavirus is not under control in the state, I guess
Speaker 1: there'd be two different sets of opinion on that as well.
Speaker 1: Might Yeah, to to your point about a lack of
Speaker 1: protective equipment. You know, one of the gym owner that
Speaker 1: I mentioned in Cartersville that sort of felt forced to
Speaker 1: open before he wanted to, he admitted at the end
Speaker 1: of my call with him that they are already running
Speaker 1: low of sanitizer and wipes to wipe down the equipment. Certainly,
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people watching Georgia and a
Speaker 1: lot of people who are opponents of the governor's move
Speaker 1: And if it turns out that the COVID nineteen cases
Speaker 1: spike here, as some people think, the governor will be
Speaker 1: under tremendous pressure and this could be a a real
Speaker 1: challenge for him when it comes re election time. Well,
Speaker 1: and I bet the people who go to the gym
Speaker 1: probably think they're already very fit and that will protect them.
Speaker 1: But we know that's not necessarily the case. Okay, I
Speaker 1: guess my only question, which is more frivolous, is what
Speaker 1: restaurant opening would actually get you ordering some food if
Speaker 1: you didn't get a waffle at the waffle house? What
Speaker 1: what will you what will you want to order when
Speaker 1: it opens up? What? Interestingly, Atlanta is a is a
Speaker 1: very diverse community. We have in the suburb where I live.
Speaker 1: It's sort of the Duluth Lawrenceville, Georgia area northeast of Atlanta.
Speaker 1: They have a large Korean population, and I happen to
Speaker 1: have My favorite restaurant is a Korean taco place that's
Speaker 1: in Duluth, Georgia. And so if and when I've not
Speaker 1: been by that restaurant, but if and when it opens
Speaker 1: the dine end service, I will be frequenting the Korean
Speaker 1: Taco place. And I went I saw you there, we
Speaker 1: went out for a meal at the end of last year.
Speaker 1: You didn't take me there next time you have? Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: thanks very much, Mike Sassa. So I'm delighted to welcome
Speaker 1: back to Stephanomics Professor Richard Baldwin, Professor of International Economics
Speaker 1: at the Graduate Institute of International and Development Studies in Geneva.
Speaker 1: Richards just co edited with Simon Everett a book for
Speaker 1: the European think tank, the Center for Economic Policy Research,
Speaker 1: which is called COVID nineteen and Trade Policy. Why turning
Speaker 1: inward won't work. Richard, we have had a lot of
Speaker 1: talk on this program and generally about countries turning inward
Speaker 1: in response to this crisis, and maybe companies wanting to
Speaker 1: be less global um and maybe be more self sufficient
Speaker 1: in key ways reduced their reliance on China. But we've
Speaker 1: also seen some very short term, sort of knee jerk
Speaker 1: reactions by countries just in the last month or two
Speaker 1: trying to safeguard their supplies of key medical equipment and food.
Speaker 1: So I see. You know, Russia has tried to limit
Speaker 1: its exports of grain, for example, Vietnam put limits at
Speaker 1: least for a while on its export of rice. You know,
Speaker 1: when we hear about these things, they it sounds selfish,
Speaker 1: doesn't sound very kind of civic spirited when governments do this.
Speaker 1: But I think a lot of people will instinctively have
Speaker 1: more sympathy with policymakers doing that at a time of crisis.
Speaker 1: When people are really worried about, for example, getting that
Speaker 1: personal protective equipment. But you think it's it's just as
Speaker 1: misguided in times of crisis as it is in normal times.
Speaker 1: Why is that, Well, the basic problem is that we
Speaker 1: live in the twenty one century where to make almost
Speaker 1: anything you have to import products. So, just to take
Speaker 1: an example, respirator mass use inputs from a number of countries,
Speaker 1: and so blocking exports of the mask, which may trigger retaliation,
Speaker 1: can come up the whole supply chain, therefore make it
Speaker 1: harder for everybody to make masks anywhere. The way manufacturing
Speaker 1: works today, it is globalized, and we can't change that.
Speaker 1: During the COVID crisis, there are factories all around the world,
Speaker 1: including in China, and blocking exports of American mass for example,
Speaker 1: risk retaliation which will essentially build walls in the global factory.
Speaker 1: So trying to keep more products at home to boost
Speaker 1: local availability is actually hindering the world's ability to produce
Speaker 1: this good. And if the retaliations go far enough, then
Speaker 1: we'll have a real disaster, like where everybody's banning exports
Speaker 1: and that makes it hard for anybody to make anything.
Speaker 1: So that's the real danger is that this thing con
Speaker 1: spire out of control. Yeah, and I natued in then
Speaker 1: the forward to your your ebook of Golden Brown, the
Speaker 1: former Prime Minister makes exactly that point, makes the reference
Speaker 1: back to the twenties and and fears, and you make
Speaker 1: the interdependence point. And I have to say I wasn't
Speaker 1: aware of this. So the US is heavily dependent on
Speaker 1: the imports of personal protective equipment, but also is a
Speaker 1: major exporter and even an exports to China. So if
Speaker 1: you're you can't you can't necessarily unpick this. I mean food.
Speaker 1: You know, we've talked a bit about the medical side.
Speaker 1: Food is the other thing that quite a few countries
Speaker 1: have reached to try and limit exports. You know, the
Speaker 1: opposite of what we often see when we see these
Speaker 1: kind of competitive situations in trade, where actually you're trying
Speaker 1: to maximize your exports and minimize your imports. We've had
Speaker 1: the opposite here. People are trying to keep hold of
Speaker 1: their imports, but stop those exports of of key of food.
Speaker 1: You can see the logic of it when something like Russia,
Speaker 1: somebody like Russia tries to make sure that they can
Speaker 1: hold onto their grain supplies. But what's the implication in practice. Well, so,
Speaker 1: just to give you a little classical reference, you may
Speaker 1: enjoy Alexander the Great, right before he went off to
Speaker 1: conquer the world, he forbid the exports of all food
Speaker 1: from Greece exactly because he wanted to keep the food
Speaker 1: prices low in grease and therefore keep the population happy.
Speaker 1: Now we live in a different world than Alexander the Great.
Speaker 1: The last time this happened was in two thousand and six.
Speaker 1: Two thousand and seven, there was a round of export
Speaker 1: restraints on food and the price of food rises. Now,
Speaker 1: once the price of food rises, nations will be worried
Speaker 1: about shortage of food, and so they very often start
Speaker 1: buying to build up stocks at that time. So therefore
Speaker 1: the prices rise more, and to protect the local markets,
Speaker 1: more exporters block off the exports. And so this this
Speaker 1: round can lead to very high, very rising prices, as
Speaker 1: it did in two thousand and seven, And although the
Speaker 1: people are blocking the exports, you can understand it. As
Speaker 1: you said, it keeps the price lower than it would otherwise.
Speaker 1: It's really a disaster for the developing world and poor
Speaker 1: people in general. So it's a kind of a for
Speaker 1: tat thing. That's triggering um behaviors which could be avoided
Speaker 1: with cooperation. I like to draw an analogy with what
Speaker 1: happened with toilet paper early on in this crisis. So
Speaker 1: there is absolutely no shortage of toilet paper in the world,
Speaker 1: but when people thought that there might be a shortage
Speaker 1: of toilet paper, they all decided to stock up at home,
Speaker 1: And because there is not enough toilet paper in the
Speaker 1: world for everybody to have a three weeks supply at
Speaker 1: home at least in the short rue, there was a
Speaker 1: shortage of toilet paper, and a similar sort of thing
Speaker 1: can happen with food. The f a O shows that
Speaker 1: the stocks to consumption ratios are perfectly fine in the
Speaker 1: major grains worldwide. There is no shortage of food right now.
Speaker 1: But if every nation decides to accumulate a two months
Speaker 1: supply because they're afraid the food exporters are going to ban,
Speaker 1: then there will be a shortage of food, and the
Speaker 1: prices will go up and more exporters will ban it.
Speaker 1: So we get into this bad balance, this bad kind
Speaker 1: of outcomes situation where the export bands of food go up,
Speaker 1: which make people panic and want to buy more food,
Speaker 1: which then makes it more expensive. Which then makes more
Speaker 1: people put on the export ban. So it's really a
Speaker 1: kind of lack of coordination. And we saw that last
Speaker 1: in two thousand and six, two thousand and seven, right
Speaker 1: before the global crisis. It was completely unrelated to the
Speaker 1: global crisis. But that's the last time it happened. Finally,
Speaker 1: I think it's just a couple more questions. But that
Speaker 1: you described what would be, in some sense the nightmare scenario.
Speaker 1: You get into that big collective action problem where a
Speaker 1: few export restrictions here and there have spiraled into a
Speaker 1: complete closure of global supply chains. You know, a lot
Speaker 1: of governments and certainly international organizations like the International Monetary
Speaker 1: Fund have been quite aware of this coming into this crisis.
Speaker 1: They've seen governments, some perhaps um succumbing to this instinct
Speaker 1: or risk of succumbing to the instinct. And I've seen
Speaker 1: groups of countries, even in the last week or so,
Speaker 1: come together to sign declarations that they're not going to
Speaker 1: have these kind of export restrictions, especially on food and
Speaker 1: medical supplies. So would you say, right now that we
Speaker 1: have that we are really heading down that road, or
Speaker 1: do you think so far we've managed to stop that
Speaker 1: kind of downward spiral. No, I think we are in
Speaker 1: the danger of the spiraling out of control. So, as
Speaker 1: you pointed out, there are sensible people around the world
Speaker 1: who understand that what goes around comes around, and when
Speaker 1: you start putting on export bands, other people will retaliate.
Speaker 1: So the countries that you were talking about were signing
Speaker 1: led lad By New Zealand and others who agreed not
Speaker 1: to restrict exports of food that did not include Russia,
Speaker 1: for example, did not include the United States in a
Speaker 1: in a binding way. And I think the problem is
Speaker 1: is we have an American resident who has very strong
Speaker 1: instincts to close off the border whenever he can. He
Speaker 1: does not understand the whole point about international supply chains.
Speaker 1: So I think there is a danger of its spinning
Speaker 1: out of control. Moreover, two of the biggest producers of
Speaker 1: the medical products and now we're talking about a medical
Speaker 1: equipment and and kit it's China and the United States,
Speaker 1: and they have a trade war going on and this
Speaker 1: other this thing could get wrapped up in it. So
Speaker 1: I think it is a real concern. Now, just just
Speaker 1: to sort of reiterate with the problem there is that
Speaker 1: if one country starts putting on bands and the other
Speaker 1: one starts putting on bands. That can mean that the
Speaker 1: availability of medical equipment starts to fall everywhere, and that
Speaker 1: makes more people put on bands to keep at home
Speaker 1: what makes equipment they have. So again it's one of
Speaker 1: these things that tumble out of control. In the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: people were countries were trying to shift demand of themselves
Speaker 1: with tariffs, and what happened was with the retaliation is
Speaker 1: they destroyed aggregate demand everywhere. What could happen here is
Speaker 1: that an attempt to keep supply local with export bands,
Speaker 1: everybody ends up destroying the factory uh global value chains
Speaker 1: and supply chains, and they destroy supply everywhere. So there's
Speaker 1: another example on the self defeating export bands that we
Speaker 1: saw when India banned the export of clora quinine, which
Speaker 1: if you remember a few weeks ago, so the President
Speaker 1: United States and even some other people, some doctors, we're
Speaker 1: saying that clora quinine might be a treatment for COVID.
Speaker 1: What happened then was India, who has a lot of people,
Speaker 1: said we're going to ban the export of clora quinine,
Speaker 1: and that lasted for a day or two before they
Speaker 1: realized that they import all the precursors for clora quinine
Speaker 1: from China. So they reversed themselves because they realized an
Speaker 1: export ban that led China to retaliate with an export
Speaker 1: ban would actually mean that they had no chloroquinine domestically.
Speaker 1: And as as what the example of trying to increase
Speaker 1: the availability of a supply by building walls within your
Speaker 1: own factory and it just doesn't work. It's a backfire.
Speaker 1: It might have made sense in the twentieth century, but
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense in the manufacturing world. First of vision, Bobwin,
Speaker 1: thank you very much, Thank you so thanks for listening
Speaker 1: to Stephanomics, the podcast that takes you from waffles to
Speaker 1: toilet paper via Alexander the Great and the history of
Speaker 1: global trade. We'll be back next week with more on
Speaker 1: how COVID nineteen is turning the world economy upside down.
Speaker 1: But remember you can always find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, website,
Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more
Speaker 1: news and analysis from Bloomberg Economics, follow at Economics on Twitter.
Speaker 1: This episode was produced by Magnus Hendrickson, with special thanks
Speaker 1: to my Sasso in Atlanta and Professor Richard Baldwin in Geneva.
Speaker 1: Scott Laman as the executive producer of Stephanomics and the
Speaker 1: head of Bloomberg Podcasts is Francesco Levi.