WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra - Allison Schrager

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Jason Kelly Carol Masser. Welcome to the Bloomberg Business

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<v Speaker 1>Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast. This is where we

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<v Speaker 1>give you one of our full interviews of the week.

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<v Speaker 1>Our podcast this week is with economist and author Alison Schrager.

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<v Speaker 1>She's at with a new book about Understanding Risk, and

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<v Speaker 1>it has something of a risky title as well, What

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<v Speaker 1>Happens when an Economist walks into a Brothel? Not a joke,

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<v Speaker 1>it's a book. And here's our conversation. All right, So Alison,

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<v Speaker 1>how did you get the idea for this book? Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I always had this idea that, you know, financial economics

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<v Speaker 1>was a really unexplored area of economics. You wouldn't think

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<v Speaker 1>so because it's so you know, you hear about it.

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<v Speaker 1>But I felt like it applied to all areas of

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<v Speaker 1>economics and not just financial markets. So I was flirting

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<v Speaker 1>with this idea and then it was actually Business Week

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<v Speaker 1>who called me and said, you know, we want to

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<v Speaker 1>do a column exploring different ways to explore risk and

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<v Speaker 1>unconventional places and because finances the study of risk, that's

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<v Speaker 1>initially what sparked the idea. And this is a few

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<v Speaker 1>years in the making at this point. So how long

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<v Speaker 1>does it take to assess risk in this through this

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<v Speaker 1>lens um? I mean assessing the risk of writing a book. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there a terrible risk decision. Yeah, I think it's always

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<v Speaker 1>really hard to justify that. I think it has to

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<v Speaker 1>be purely a creative endeavor because that was I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was two thousand fourteen, and it was me starting

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<v Speaker 1>to think about how risk could be reported rather than

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<v Speaker 1>just be in a financial model, because financial models always

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<v Speaker 1>had this rough idea from my background academia that financial

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<v Speaker 1>models are really just little parables just told with math. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was when I was a business week when

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<v Speaker 1>I started exploring like could I take that same parable

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<v Speaker 1>and report it and find stories that match up to it?

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<v Speaker 1>And so how do you find your footing back then

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<v Speaker 1>as a journalist versus and academic. Well, I climb out

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<v Speaker 1>of the Ivory tower. I you know, I think what

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<v Speaker 1>was hard is it's not your opinion anymore, and that

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<v Speaker 1>you have to as as academics, we don't really talk

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<v Speaker 1>to people. In fact, were discouraged from it because and

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<v Speaker 1>for sometimes good reasons. It's not lack of curiosity. It's

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<v Speaker 1>partially that you don't want anecdotes to bias your analysis,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's not a very effective way to tell a

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<v Speaker 1>story and connect with people. Uh So it was learning

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<v Speaker 1>how to do that, how to write for an audience,

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<v Speaker 1>how to tell stories that connect, and how to find

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<v Speaker 1>people really off the beaten path and learn how to

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<v Speaker 1>get them to open up to you. So let's go

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<v Speaker 1>back even further. Why do you become an economist in

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<v Speaker 1>the first place. Well, I think, like a lot of economists,

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<v Speaker 1>I grew up with a lot of questions, and I

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<v Speaker 1>grew up in a community where there was called bimodial

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<v Speaker 1>income distribution. People with their upper middle class are very poor,

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<v Speaker 1>and I never quite understood why. Where was this in

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<v Speaker 1>stories Connecticut? So so of Northeastern Connecticut that has a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of declining industry, but it was also a big

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<v Speaker 1>university tech so I think those income differences always really

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<v Speaker 1>I was actually the fourth generation to grow up there,

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<v Speaker 1>so I always felt really connected to the lower income people. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>I had professional parents, so I couldn't quite figure out

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<v Speaker 1>why this was happening generally after generation. And when I

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<v Speaker 1>started studying economics, I started getting answers. And I just remember,

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<v Speaker 1>even when I was a fifteen with economics, I always

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<v Speaker 1>just wanted to know more, like there was just never enough.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think that's why I knew early I would

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<v Speaker 1>go all the way and get a PhD with it,

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<v Speaker 1>because it's just every time I learned an answer, I

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<v Speaker 1>had a new question. And so were your parents academics? No, no,

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<v Speaker 1>Justice said, just grew up there. Yeah. Uh. And so

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<v Speaker 1>you go through your your studies and and do you

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<v Speaker 1>have a sort of a specialty within economics at that point?

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<v Speaker 1>I do, well. I actually specialized pretty early my early

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<v Speaker 1>twenties with retirement finance, which is an interesting role even

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<v Speaker 1>within economics. So if your study retirement economics, it's actually

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<v Speaker 1>a macro public finance, which is the questions of how

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<v Speaker 1>should society best movement resources through the future. Um, but

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<v Speaker 1>that's a huge risk problem, right, And well, I got

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<v Speaker 1>some exposure to finance financial economics. I didn't get a lot,

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<v Speaker 1>mainly because a lot of financial economics at the university

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<v Speaker 1>I was at was mainly, like, you know, grinding data

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<v Speaker 1>and looking for violations in the efficient markets hypothesis, so

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<v Speaker 1>it didn't really appeal to me. But then after grad

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<v Speaker 1>school I kind of went rogue and left academia and

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<v Speaker 1>I ended up meeting Robert Merton, who is a famous

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<v Speaker 1>financial economist for solving black shoals, and he was like

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<v Speaker 1>looking at my research, which was really thinking about how

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<v Speaker 1>people manage wage and asset risk and what makes sense

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<v Speaker 1>and sort of defined benefit versus defined contribution pensions, and

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<v Speaker 1>he uh, it was like, I think this is really interesting.

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<v Speaker 1>Why don't you come work with me and I'll teach

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<v Speaker 1>you finance. And that's what exposed me to sort of

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<v Speaker 1>financial economics, which is just the study of risk and markets.

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<v Speaker 1>And as I got to know him and was mentored

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<v Speaker 1>by him for almost seven years, I really started to

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<v Speaker 1>see these problems everywhere and see how his way of

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<v Speaker 1>thinking and understanding the world in any market in terms

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<v Speaker 1>of how you put a price on risk and value

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<v Speaker 1>risk really could explain so much much bigger than even

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<v Speaker 1>retirement or any problem. And so how do you attack

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<v Speaker 1>a book like this? How do you create the framework

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<v Speaker 1>to tell the right stories in the right order? So

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<v Speaker 1>I really you know, they said the book is this

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<v Speaker 1>is a little salicious, you know, going to brothels, But

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<v Speaker 1>it started with every author notes you've got to start

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<v Speaker 1>with a good title, or you gotta at least have

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<v Speaker 1>a good title to sell it and this is a

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<v Speaker 1>great one, thank you. UM. It started actually quite nerdy

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<v Speaker 1>of thinking about what themes is. I was working in

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<v Speaker 1>retirement retirement finance. I felt very strongly there are certain

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<v Speaker 1>things people need to know that I don't think of

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<v Speaker 1>that complicated, but we just don't teach people that people

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<v Speaker 1>need to understand about markets and financial risk. So I

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<v Speaker 1>just started thinking about each topic, like each lesson from

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<v Speaker 1>finance that people wanted to know, and that was the

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<v Speaker 1>original outline, and then I just sort of found stories.

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<v Speaker 1>I found any market that seemed quirky or interesting to me,

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<v Speaker 1>I would just go and show up and see what

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<v Speaker 1>the story was there, and it always matched. There's always

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<v Speaker 1>something there that lined up with this broader theme from

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<v Speaker 1>risk or financial risk that was just lying in plain sight.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I I want to get into some of

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<v Speaker 1>those stories, especially surfing in a minute. But one of

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<v Speaker 1>the great things you do at the top of the book,

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<v Speaker 1>near the beginning of the book is you talk about

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<v Speaker 1>the rules of risk, and we don't have to go

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<v Speaker 1>through all of them, but tease out a couple for us.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first thing is, and this sounds so simple,

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<v Speaker 1>is you really have to define risk and reward. Like

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<v Speaker 1>everyone says, you know, no risk and reward, but what

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<v Speaker 1>that really means is actually something more complicated. First, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I go through a lot of very complicated ways. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>everything in this book is what everyone does on Wall

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<v Speaker 1>Street is just trumped up, packaged around and layered off

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<v Speaker 1>on each other. But it's all these basic ideas. But

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<v Speaker 1>the most sophisticated strategy will never compensate for not taking

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<v Speaker 1>a well defined risk to start with, which is being

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<v Speaker 1>really clear of what you want and what you're risking for.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, in pension economics, the way to find benefit

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<v Speaker 1>plans are supposed to work but not always is you

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<v Speaker 1>define a goal, which is you need this stream of

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<v Speaker 1>income in the future, and you take just enough risk

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<v Speaker 1>to get that, and once you have that risk, to

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<v Speaker 1>take risk off the table. Oh, no one does that

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<v Speaker 1>because they never actually make enough money or people get

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<v Speaker 1>confused about their goal. But this is actually the most

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<v Speaker 1>efficient way to take risk and the most thoughtful way

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<v Speaker 1>to do it. So you want to define what you're

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<v Speaker 1>taking a risk for, put it in risk free terms,

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<v Speaker 1>and then figure out exactly how much risk you want

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<v Speaker 1>to take to get it. And honestly, if you do

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<v Speaker 1>that you're there. That's easier said than done. And how

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<v Speaker 1>does that work in the real world? Well, it is

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<v Speaker 1>it it's defining what you want. I mean, it's that's

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<v Speaker 1>not an easy thing. People spend a lot of money

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<v Speaker 1>on therapists and life coaches just trying to figure out

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<v Speaker 1>what it is they want out of life. But I

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<v Speaker 1>mean you have to think through you know, even if

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<v Speaker 1>if you know a relationship ends and you are unhappy

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<v Speaker 1>in it, like what are you looking for in a partner?

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<v Speaker 1>Like exactly, very be very clear. If you're unhappy in

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<v Speaker 1>your job, like what do you want out of your job?

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean one thing I discuss is what we

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<v Speaker 1>do in finance is or you're supposed to do and

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of people do is you price it in

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<v Speaker 1>risk free terms? Like what would get you there with

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<v Speaker 1>as little risk as possible. So I use the example

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, if you want a pleasant evening, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, you can stay in and watch Netflix that's

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<v Speaker 1>low risk, or you can go out and you can

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<v Speaker 1>go to a party. I mean, there's a whole range

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<v Speaker 1>of things that could happen. You could have a bad time,

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<v Speaker 1>You can get hit by a car, or it could

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<v Speaker 1>be the best party of your life. You can meet

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<v Speaker 1>the love of your life. So the risk free is

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<v Speaker 1>home watching Netflix. Risky is going out to a party.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's talk about surfing, because that was one of

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<v Speaker 1>my favorite chapters in here, and because that's something that

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<v Speaker 1>even if you don't surf, you understand sort of the risks,

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<v Speaker 1>or at least the basic risk. So take us inside

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<v Speaker 1>that business, because you actually spent some time in of

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<v Speaker 1>all places, a hotel ballroom with surfers. Again, like so

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<v Speaker 1>much cognitive dissonance throughout this, um, but help us understand

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<v Speaker 1>how they think about risk because it's new. Well, they

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<v Speaker 1>actually think a lot about it. Um. They actually have

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<v Speaker 1>an annual risk conference, and I mean actually think they

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<v Speaker 1>do it a couple of times a year now in

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<v Speaker 1>a hotel ballroom with like no windows except that I

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<v Speaker 1>mean they all look cooler than other risk conferences. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean we're in the room and their slides and there's numbers,

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<v Speaker 1>but everyone's like in shorts and their supertan and they're

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<v Speaker 1>great looking and um, then there's me, uh and the

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<v Speaker 1>only woman there too, and everyone's very sort of like,

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<v Speaker 1>if you want to be here, fine, But what I

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<v Speaker 1>was surprised is you know, this felt a lot like

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<v Speaker 1>a pension risk conference in the content of what we're

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<v Speaker 1>talking about. One of their intellectual leaders is a man

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<v Speaker 1>named Brian Carolina who brought jet skis to big wave

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<v Speaker 1>surfing and he's also worked as a stuntman, and he

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<v Speaker 1>has is a native Hawaiian. He's a long history of

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<v Speaker 1>relatives who have worked in water sports. And he said

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<v Speaker 1>to me, you know, I had this revelation I think

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<v Speaker 1>it was the nineties that risk is something that could

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<v Speaker 1>be managed. And he really became the self taught risk

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<v Speaker 1>guru who really studies the principles of risk and risk

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<v Speaker 1>minimization and risk management. And so how does that actually

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<v Speaker 1>apply to surfing? How do these guys who are chasing

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<v Speaker 1>after a reward that is, if not hard to define,

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<v Speaker 1>hard to quantify, I would imagine, And yet they talk

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<v Speaker 1>about waves and wave sets and things like that, take

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<v Speaker 1>us inside that. Yeah, So a couple of things. So

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<v Speaker 1>in the book I mentioned different ways to manage risk.

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<v Speaker 1>One is hedging, the other's insurance. So they both apply

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<v Speaker 1>to surfing. So an example of a hedge in surfing,

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<v Speaker 1>so a hedging is just taking less risk, balancing risk

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<v Speaker 1>and reward and money that just right combination. So waves

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<v Speaker 1>travel and sets of say five, and one thing that

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<v Speaker 1>they suggest you do is it's not a matter. They're

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<v Speaker 1>not like these dudes who go out and back. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>as serf the biggest wave because it's there. In fact,

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<v Speaker 1>often a bigger wave might be the first one in

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<v Speaker 1>a set, but you would never take that wave because

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<v Speaker 1>if you wipe out, you've got four big waves barreling

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<v Speaker 1>on you. So they'll take a later wave in the

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<v Speaker 1>set any way, it might be smaller or less perfect wave,

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<v Speaker 1>just because it's a safer thing to do, so they're

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<v Speaker 1>not just jumping on the biggest wave. The other thing

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<v Speaker 1>they do is insurance, which is making sure they have

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<v Speaker 1>resources in place if they wipe out. So Brian is

0:10:59.520 --> 0:11:02.079
<v Speaker 1>notable in industry because he brought jet skis to big

0:11:02.080 --> 0:11:05.400
<v Speaker 1>wave surfing. And a jet ski is a lot like

0:11:05.440 --> 0:11:08.320
<v Speaker 1>a stock option a lot of ways, and that it's

0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:10.560
<v Speaker 1>there if you wipe out, so it's really insurance, but

0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:12.640
<v Speaker 1>just like an option, you can also flip it around

0:11:12.679 --> 0:11:15.280
<v Speaker 1>to take more risk and lever up right, so he

0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:18.440
<v Speaker 1>does so. After he brought jet skis to surfing as insurance,

0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.480
<v Speaker 1>other surfers started noticing you could use them to push

0:11:20.520 --> 0:11:22.640
<v Speaker 1>you on bigger waves you couldn't physically paddle out on.

0:11:23.080 --> 0:11:25.000
<v Speaker 1>So this is what's enabled people to now surf these

0:11:25.000 --> 0:11:27.560
<v Speaker 1>eight foot waves you see pictures of is those same

0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.200
<v Speaker 1>jet skis which are originally insurance but can also really

0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.080
<v Speaker 1>be used as leverage, right, And I want to explore

0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.520
<v Speaker 1>that a little bit because one of the things you

0:11:35.559 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 1>talk about, which is well known to certainly our audience,

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:42.160
<v Speaker 1>well known to just about everyone on Wall Street and

0:11:42.200 --> 0:11:45.240
<v Speaker 1>certainly Main Street as well, given the financial crisis, is

0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:49.360
<v Speaker 1>this notion of leverage and taking bigger and bigger risks

0:11:49.360 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 1>and finding instruments that allow you to do that. And

0:11:52.160 --> 0:11:54.840
<v Speaker 1>you have a line in the book late in the

0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.520
<v Speaker 1>book where you were, which I think is very profound,

0:11:58.520 --> 0:12:02.199
<v Speaker 1>where you say these big risk pose costs to others.

0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.760
<v Speaker 1>And I feel like, as a society we're really grappling

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:07.800
<v Speaker 1>with that right now. Where do you sort of come

0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.280
<v Speaker 1>out help us understand how that plays into the broader

0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:13.960
<v Speaker 1>theory here? Well, and this is the big question. I've

0:12:14.000 --> 0:12:18.000
<v Speaker 1>gone to a couple of like academic economics, financial macro conferences,

0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:20.000
<v Speaker 1>and this is the big question. And this was almostly

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:22.480
<v Speaker 1>the big question at the surf Risk conference. It wasn't

0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:25.000
<v Speaker 1>just techniques to manage your own risk, it was you're

0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:27.600
<v Speaker 1>taking If you take these outside risks, you're posing risks

0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:30.360
<v Speaker 1>to others too, in terms of resources you need to

0:12:30.360 --> 0:12:32.439
<v Speaker 1>get rescue, in terms of crashing into someone, in terms

0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 1>of it's just dangerous to rescue you. So the question is,

0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:37.120
<v Speaker 1>and I think this is the big debate we have

0:12:37.120 --> 0:12:41.480
<v Speaker 1>in finances, where does responsibility lie and who should take responsibility?

0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I asked the surfers. I was like, do you because

0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, in finance, we you know, we assume people

0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.040
<v Speaker 1>can't just control themselves, and we need regulation because there's

0:12:50.080 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 1>always this incentive to take outside risks and not realize

0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:54.760
<v Speaker 1>the cost to others. And I asked all the surfers,

0:12:54.800 --> 0:12:56.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, do you think you should be regulated? Do

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.439
<v Speaker 1>you think there should be a license for big wave

0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.360
<v Speaker 1>surfing the same way there's a license for or say

0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Scoopa diving for fishing. Yeah. Like maybe because they were

0:13:05.320 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 1>very concerned about access to equipment, and they seem to

0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:12.080
<v Speaker 1>think that the um vendors of equipment should take that responsibility.

0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:13.640
<v Speaker 1>But I'm like, maybe it should be on the government.

0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 1>Maybe you can't expect individual entities to do this, and

0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:20.080
<v Speaker 1>everyone hated that idea as like, you know, I don't

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:21.520
<v Speaker 1>know what their politics are, but this would be the

0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:23.160
<v Speaker 1>one thing they're like no, no, to keep the government

0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 1>out of surfing. But I think it is a worthwhile

0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.360
<v Speaker 1>question is as we do wonder who is the responsible

0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:30.880
<v Speaker 1>to government. Is the person selling a product, like as

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:34.360
<v Speaker 1>someone selling derivative being irresponsible, as someone selling an inflatable

0:13:34.440 --> 0:13:37.280
<v Speaker 1>vest or jet ski being irresponsible or should it just

0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.679
<v Speaker 1>fall on the individual? And I don't think there's good answers.

0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:43.679
<v Speaker 1>I think it really falls on everyone and sid this

0:13:43.760 --> 0:13:48.720
<v Speaker 1>is a big question that's unresolved in academic finance, in industry,

0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.319
<v Speaker 1>and even for the surfers right well, and it feels

0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 1>like it's unresolved even on Wall Street in the sense of,

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.240
<v Speaker 1>you know, we're eleven twelve years on from the financial crisis,

0:13:57.280 --> 0:14:01.760
<v Speaker 1>and obviously their question that remain around, you know, whether

0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.240
<v Speaker 1>and how people should have been punished too, you know,

0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.280
<v Speaker 1>had a role in that crisis. But there were also

0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:12.080
<v Speaker 1>so many whether this is is the right terminology or

0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.400
<v Speaker 1>not derivative effects in terms of economic effects in a

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:17.400
<v Speaker 1>place like New York City or the Tri State area

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:21.640
<v Speaker 1>or Middle America, for that matter, as you have gone

0:14:21.680 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 1>through this, how do you think we as a society,

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.280
<v Speaker 1>especially the United States, sort of are dealing with risk

0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:29.800
<v Speaker 1>at this point? No, well, I mean one thing that

0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:31.440
<v Speaker 1>really said it inspired me to write the book is

0:14:31.560 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>I saw that we put this huge risk problem on people,

0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:36.880
<v Speaker 1>not only in the retirement space, but just also in

0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:40.720
<v Speaker 1>terms of everything. You know, technological change brings huge systemic,

0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:45.280
<v Speaker 1>systematic risks to everyone, and we haven't really given anyone

0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 1>tools to think about risk because it it's sort of

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>this very binary thing. Either you take a risk or

0:14:49.120 --> 0:14:52.120
<v Speaker 1>you don't, either this cautious person or you're not. And

0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:53.960
<v Speaker 1>that leads people to sort of take these sort of

0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:56.400
<v Speaker 1>reckless risks of I'm a risk take or any change

0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>the way you're supposed to think about it, which is

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:01.520
<v Speaker 1>this third or middle way that takes a large range,

0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 1>which is you know, how to think about risk responsibly,

0:15:04.480 --> 0:15:06.680
<v Speaker 1>like maybe surf that big wave, but maybe not serve

0:15:06.760 --> 0:15:09.440
<v Speaker 1>the biggest wave. Maybe about surf the wave that makes

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.600
<v Speaker 1>that just sort of pushes your limits just a bit,

0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.120
<v Speaker 1>and that's the best way for people to be taking risks, right.

0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 1>And so the book is only about a week old

0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:20.120
<v Speaker 1>as we're sitting here in New York has the response

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.000
<v Speaker 1>And what's been the most surprising feedback you've gotten? Um?

0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:26.000
<v Speaker 1>You know, I thought people I tell you how people

0:15:26.000 --> 0:15:28.120
<v Speaker 1>would be negative, but I thought people would be more

0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>like financial economics. That's been disproved because people say that

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:33.320
<v Speaker 1>all the time. But people have been a lot more

0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:35.600
<v Speaker 1>open than I would have thought. And do you think

0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:38.760
<v Speaker 1>it's because you are giving examples like I mean, the

0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:42.840
<v Speaker 1>surfing example is amazing because people get it, like people

0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.920
<v Speaker 1>understand waves, they understand serving even as I said, if

0:15:46.000 --> 0:15:47.680
<v Speaker 1>if they don't do it, I like to think so.

0:15:47.800 --> 0:15:49.400
<v Speaker 1>And you know, I like to think people can see

0:15:49.440 --> 0:15:51.320
<v Speaker 1>themselves in the stories and think about risk a little

0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.000
<v Speaker 1>bit more strategically. Right, all right, So what's next for you?

0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:57.680
<v Speaker 1>You've got this book, you're out selling it literally and figuratively.

0:15:57.720 --> 0:16:00.240
<v Speaker 1>What what what's next for Allison trigger? You know, as

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:04.280
<v Speaker 1>I said, I don't know, yea more risk. So having

0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.160
<v Speaker 1>written this book, are you less or more willing to

0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.640
<v Speaker 1>take risk? Um? I guess I said it was. It's

0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:11.760
<v Speaker 1>a big risk to write a book, especially you know,

0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.440
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity cost is very large. Um. But it was

0:16:15.520 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 1>just creatively something I had to do, right, So I

0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:20.600
<v Speaker 1>guess I'll take it from there. Great Alison Traeger, congrats

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 1>on the book. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me.

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:24.600
<v Speaker 1>You've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra. Be sure

0:16:24.640 --> 0:16:27.200
<v Speaker 1>to tune into Bloomberg Business Week Radio Live Monday through

0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Friday at two pm Wall Street Time, Right here on

0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio. I'm Jason Kelly and I'm Carol Masser. This

0:16:33.240 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>is Bloomberg