1 00:00:04,480 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: On this episode of Newtsworld. The Maryland State Department of 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: Education recently released to twenty twenty two state test results 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:18,880 Speaker 1: known as MCAP Maryland Comprehensive Assessment Program. Baltimore Cities math 4 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: scores were the lowest in the state. Just seven percent 5 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:26,599 Speaker 1: of third through eighth graders tested proficient in math, which 6 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: means ninety three percent could not do math at grade level. 7 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: Journalist Chris Pabst from Fox forty five Baltimore has been 8 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: leading Project Baltimore reporting for years. He and his team 9 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: combed through the scores of all one hundred and fifty 10 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: city schools where the state math test was given and 11 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: found in twenty three Baltimore City schools there were zero 12 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: students who tested proficient in math. Zero. I was shocked 13 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: to hear that the Baltimore City School system is failure 14 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,279 Speaker 1: students at this level and one to discuss why this 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 1: is happening. So I'm really pleased to welcome back my guest, 16 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:10,640 Speaker 1: Chris Paps Sinclair's Fox forty five Project Baltimore lead investigative reporter, 17 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,960 Speaker 1: and he is joined by Giovanni Patterson, a parent who 18 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: was suing the Baltimore City School System for their failure 19 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: to properly educate students. Chris and Giovanni, thank you both 20 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:34,800 Speaker 1: for joining me on news World. Thank you for having 21 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 1: me back. Thank you for having me. Chris, we last 22 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: spoke when you were on news World back in August 23 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: of twenty twenty one. What's happened in the Baltimore public 24 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 1: schools since? Well, the situation is largely exactly what it was, 25 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,600 Speaker 1: and we did have the pandemic. We came through the pandemic, 26 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: and prior to the pandemic, Baltimore City was already seeing 27 00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,560 Speaker 1: very significant issues with educating many of its students. The 28 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: pandemics certainly made it worse, but it was getting worse. 29 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: The trends were going down before the pandemic even hit. 30 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: Graduation rates, attendance, college enrollment, all of those things were 31 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:18,440 Speaker 1: going down. In twenty nineteen and twenty twenty, the pandemic hits, 32 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 1: and now it's just more severe, which led to us 33 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,880 Speaker 1: looking at that MCAP data, and the MCAP was not 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: administered during COVID, so the Maryland State Department of Education 35 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: didn't issue those tests during COVID. The numbers that came 36 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 1: out in January of this year that we analyzed and 37 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: found those twenty three schools. That was the first time 38 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: that the state had done that type of full state assessments, 39 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 1: so we really wanted to look at it deeper. And 40 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: when the state came out with their data, they gave 41 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 1: a very cursory view of what the data looked like. 42 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: So then we acquired the data. As you said, mister speaker, 43 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 1: we looked through it and that's when we made these 44 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:08,680 Speaker 1: stunning discoveries that there were twenty three entire schools in 45 00:03:08,760 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Baltimore City that did not have one student that could 46 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: pass the state math test, that could do math at 47 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: grade level. And when we saw that data, we were like, Okay, 48 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: this can't be true. We looked at it over, we 49 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: double checked it, we triple checked it. We sent an 50 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:30,320 Speaker 1: email to Baltimore City Public Schools. We said, hey, we're 51 00:03:30,360 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: doing this story coming up in a couple of days. 52 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: We got these twenty three schools. We gave them an 53 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: opportunity to challenge the data if it weren't accurate. But 54 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: it turns out that it's true. We got twenty three 55 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:45,360 Speaker 1: schools in this city was zero students proficient in math. 56 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: It's just unbelievable. This included ten high schools, eight elementary schools, 57 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: three middle high schools, and two elementary middle schools. And 58 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: I didn't realize this, but apparently there are another twenty 59 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: balt City schools that had just one or two students 60 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: test proficient in math or is that true? Correct? So 61 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,360 Speaker 1: when we looked at the data and we found those 62 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: twenty three schools with zero students proficient, we also found that, okay, well, 63 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,640 Speaker 1: there's some schools that have one kid proficient. There's a 64 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,560 Speaker 1: number of schools that have two kids proficient. So we 65 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: thought that it was also news worthy to point out 66 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of schools that almost have zero 67 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:31,719 Speaker 1: students proficient. And that's another twenty Now, as you mentioned earlier, 68 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 1: mister speaker, there's one hundred and fifty schools in Baltimore 69 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 1: City that took these MCAP tests. Forty three of them, 70 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:44,279 Speaker 1: almost an entire third of the city had zero, one 71 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: or two students who were proficient in math. And this 72 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: encompasses thousands and thousands of kids that are taking these 73 00:04:52,640 --> 00:04:56,880 Speaker 1: tests that just simply aren't doing math at grade level. 74 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: I do want to make a comment that we just 75 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: picked up one that in Illinois there are fifty three 76 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: schools that have not a single student doing math at 77 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 1: the grade level. And I'm beginning to look around the 78 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,520 Speaker 1: whole country because we really almost have to save the 79 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: children program. Now, there was a teacher at Patterson High 80 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,280 Speaker 1: School in Baltimore who came forward to Project Baltimore with 81 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:21,599 Speaker 1: information that showed that seventy seven percent of the high 82 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: school students read at an elementary school level. How do 83 00:05:24,960 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: you react to something like that? Well, what had happened 84 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: in that situation? That was a story that we had 85 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: done in twenty twenty two, is a story we did 86 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,599 Speaker 1: just about a year ago. And your original question to 87 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 1: me was, you know what has happened since the last 88 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: time we spoke. A teacher had come to us with 89 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: I ready scores. And what I ready scores are is 90 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: the schools do individual testing beyond any other state testing 91 00:05:51,000 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: because they want to get an idea of where their 92 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 1: kids are. And these I Ready scores are done around 93 00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:01,160 Speaker 1: the country. Many schools do them, so the teacher stands, Okay, 94 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: this kid is doing let's say reading at a fifth 95 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 1: grade level, or first grade level, or a ninth grade 96 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: or tenth grade level. And when they do that, it 97 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: helps the teacher know where the kid is well. This 98 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: particular teacher got i Ready scores back for the whole 99 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: school and sent them to me and it's like, you 100 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:21,200 Speaker 1: need to look at this data. This is where our 101 00:06:21,279 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: kids are in Baltimore City and this is Patterson High School. 102 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: This is one of the biggest high schools in the 103 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,600 Speaker 1: entire city. And we looked at these I Ready scores 104 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: and found that seventy seven percent of the kids in 105 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:38,960 Speaker 1: this high school we're reading at an elementary school level. 106 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,400 Speaker 1: I think it was around eighty kids were reading at 107 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: a first grade level, seventy five kids were reading at 108 00:06:46,080 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: a second grade level, and the rest of them were 109 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 1: reading at third, fourth and fifth grade levels. But that 110 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: is just another data point that we were able to 111 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:57,839 Speaker 1: uncover with the sources that we have in Baltimore City. 112 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:02,360 Speaker 1: And also the maths scores were very similar. I don't 113 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: have that story right in front of me, but I 114 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: think it was seventy eight percent of the kids at 115 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 1: this high school we're doing math at an elementary school level. 116 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:13,960 Speaker 1: This is something that over the six years that we've 117 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 1: been doing Project Baltimore, these are stories that we have 118 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: done a number of times like these are becoming stories 119 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 1: that are common, which is a very scary thing in 120 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: Baltimore City. And if you look at a lot of 121 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: the Facebook comments and then social media comments, when we 122 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: produce a story like this, a lot of people will say, well, 123 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: this is just the way it is. And we get 124 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: that comment a lot. That is just the way it is. 125 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 1: Seventy seven percent of kids at a high school are 126 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: reading at an elementary school level, and that's just the 127 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: way it is, and I think it's a very scary 128 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: place for Baltimore to be. For the first three quarters 129 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 1: of the two twenty one school year, forty one percent 130 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: of the high school students had a great point average 131 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: of below one, that is less than average. That's another 132 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: one of these headlines that we were able to produce 133 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: because of the sources that we have within the school 134 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:09,520 Speaker 1: system where we had found that and this is the 135 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: entirety of Baltimore City public schools, the entirety of the 136 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: school system. Forty one percent of all the high school 137 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: kids had below a one point zero GPA through the 138 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: first three quarters of that school year. That's below a 139 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 1: D grade point average. And for those stories like similar 140 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,200 Speaker 1: to the twenty three schools with no kids proficient in 141 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: math or the seventy seven percent of kids at Patterson 142 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,960 Speaker 1: High School reading an elementary school level. The Baltimore City 143 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: School System refuses to interview with us. They will not 144 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: answer these questions. We can't get any school board member 145 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 1: to speak with us. We can't get the CEO or 146 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: any of her cabinet level position members to speak with us. 147 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: They will simply not address these issues. They won't talk 148 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: about it. And you know, as a journalist, that's frustrating 149 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,600 Speaker 1: because we are trying to get answers for the people 150 00:09:02,640 --> 00:09:05,440 Speaker 1: of Baltimore City, the taxpayers who are paying the one 151 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:09,520 Speaker 1: point six billion dollars into this school system and getting 152 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: results like that. But the leaders of the school system 153 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: they don't want to address it. They don't want to 154 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 1: talk about it. The mayor doesn't want to talk about it. 155 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: He fully supports the school CEO in Baltimore, he fully 156 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,600 Speaker 1: supports the school board, which he appoints. By the way, 157 00:09:25,679 --> 00:09:28,839 Speaker 1: the school board is appointed by the mayor. And that's 158 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: kind of where we are in Baltimore City. We have 159 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: these headlines that obviously make national headlines. They catch your attention, 160 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,280 Speaker 1: they catch the entire country's attention, but nobody in Baltimore 161 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: City will do an interview about it or discuss it. 162 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:04,640 Speaker 1: Had the seventy percent of those high school graduates in 163 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: twenty eighteen who did go on to university, seventy had 164 00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:12,719 Speaker 1: to take remedial classes in basic reading and math. I mean, 165 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: the Baltimore school budget is twenty one thousand dollars per student, 166 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 1: so a class of twenty, which is probably smaller than 167 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:23,199 Speaker 1: the average class, would be a four hundred thousand dollars investment. 168 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 1: How do they spend twenty one thousand dollars a student 169 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: and have results like this? That was the entire premise 170 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: of why Project Baltimore was created by Fox forty five 171 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: was we could see that Baltimore City Public Schools is 172 00:10:39,679 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: one of the most funded large school systems in America. 173 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: It floats between number three and number five as the 174 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,800 Speaker 1: most funding per pupil in America. But we could see 175 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:52,640 Speaker 1: the scores, we can see the graduation rates, and we 176 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: came together and we said, hey, why don't we put 177 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:59,439 Speaker 1: together an investigative team, mister speaker to answer that specific 178 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: How can we be spending this much money and getting 179 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: the results that we just went over and as stunning 180 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 1: as those results are, we have done more stories over 181 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 1: the past six years along those lines, and we are 182 00:11:14,960 --> 00:11:17,520 Speaker 1: trying to get to those answers or trying to figure 183 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: out what's going on. Not much has changed in the 184 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: last six years in terms of the progress. A lot 185 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:25,959 Speaker 1: of the stories that we have done, we've done a 186 00:11:26,040 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: number of stories on grade changing and grade fixing situations 187 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: like that, have improved, But as far as the overall 188 00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: performance of the student, it really hasn't gotten any better. 189 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: In fact, I think I could make a very legitimate 190 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:44,440 Speaker 1: argument that it's gotten worse in the six years that 191 00:11:44,480 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 1: we've been doing this. Graduation rates are lower, attendance is lower, 192 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 1: college enrollment is lower. And what the legislature just did 193 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: in Maryland is they pass what's known as the Kerwin Plan, 194 00:11:56,240 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 1: which is called the Blueprint for Maryland's Future, which significantly 195 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:05,480 Speaker 1: increase the amount of money that is going to public schools, 196 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,360 Speaker 1: specifically Baltimore City public schools, So that twenty one thousand 197 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: dollars per student that we mentioned, which is already top 198 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: five in America for large school systems, is going to 199 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,400 Speaker 1: get to about thirty thousand dollars in the next couple 200 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:21,559 Speaker 1: of years. But in putting more money into the school system. 201 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,439 Speaker 1: They haven't really changed the system. Teachers are going to 202 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 1: be getting more money, principles are going to be getting 203 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:32,040 Speaker 1: more money, tutors are going to be getting more money. 204 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: But the overall way that the school system runs, the 205 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:39,199 Speaker 1: overall way that is operated, is going to largely remain 206 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,200 Speaker 1: the same. So the idea here was put more money 207 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: into the same system, and they're crossing their fingers and 208 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: hoping that the results are going to improve. The city 209 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: school's budget is a billion, six hundred and twenty million dollars. Yes, 210 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,320 Speaker 1: a stunning amount of money. It's hard to imagine spending 211 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: that much money for no results. It's an interesting question 212 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: because the Maryland Constitution says students have the right to 213 00:13:05,880 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: quote a thorough and efficient system of free public schools. 214 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: What does that mean. Well, that has been challenged in court, 215 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:19,439 Speaker 1: and what that means is that the students of Baltimore 216 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:23,120 Speaker 1: City public schools are entitled to essentially a free education. 217 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: But the courts have also determined that doesn't mean it 218 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:31,000 Speaker 1: has to be a good education. And that is really 219 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: where Maryland sits right now. And there have been a 220 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: number of lawsuits that have come through the state of 221 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: Maryland challenging that language that you just mentioned that is 222 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:44,520 Speaker 1: found in the Constitution, and every time it goes before 223 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:47,440 Speaker 1: a judge, the judge rules that you are entitled to 224 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: a free education, but not necessarily a good education. So 225 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: that is really why a lot of people feel that 226 00:13:55,760 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 1: Maryland and Baltimore City is where it is. And as 227 00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: legislature and as a state taxpayer continues to pour one 228 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 1: point six billion dollars a year into this school system, 229 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: which I actually just mentioned because of the Kerwin Plan 230 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: that we talked about. Every year that's going to go 231 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: up as the population of Baltimore is shrinking pretty rapidly, 232 00:14:17,360 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 1: specifically in the school system, as people are trying to 233 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: get out. That's just where the state is right now, 234 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: and it's where Baltimore City is right now. And there 235 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:30,080 Speaker 1: are a lot of people in the state that are saying, hey, 236 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 1: why don't we take that twenty one thousand dollars, Let's 237 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: attach it to a student and give the parent the 238 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: ability to go to a private school, go to a 239 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 1: parochial school, go to another public school with that twenty 240 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:45,280 Speaker 1: one thousand dollars, so they can get out of these 241 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:48,680 Speaker 1: twenty three schools. They can get out of Patterson High School, 242 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:50,920 Speaker 1: where seventy seven percent of the kids are reading in 243 00:14:50,960 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 1: elementary school levels. Maryland is a state that has a 244 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,240 Speaker 1: very powerful teachers union, has a lot of money, a 245 00:14:57,240 --> 00:14:59,920 Speaker 1: lot of members. It may be the most powerful lob 246 00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 1: being group in the state of Maryland. And they oppose 247 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:06,400 Speaker 1: the idea of vouchers and things to that nature, so 248 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: that those types of ideas in Maryland don't get very far. 249 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: So is the Baltimore County schools any different from the 250 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: Baltimore City The Baltimore County schools do perform better. We 251 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: had done a story earlier this week, about a week 252 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: after these story about the school with the twenty three 253 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,520 Speaker 1: schools in Baltimore City where we perform the same MCAP 254 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: state testing analysis on the county as we did in 255 00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: the city. Now, the county over the past ten years 256 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:39,520 Speaker 1: has really been struggling. It's been declining. Student performance has 257 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:44,080 Speaker 1: been declining rapidly, and we thought, okay, well, what does 258 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: the data look like in Baltimore County. So we did 259 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: the same analysis and we found that there were seven 260 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: schools in Baltimore County that have zero students proficient in maths. Now, 261 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: keep in mind Baltimore County is significantly larger than Baltimore City, 262 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: many more students, many more schools. There were seven schools 263 00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:07,840 Speaker 1: in Baltimore County with zero students proficient in math and 264 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: another ten schools that had just one or two students 265 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: proficient in math. So in the county the total number 266 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 1: was seventeen. In Baltimore City, the total number was forty three. 267 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: But in an apples to Apple's comparison, Baltimore County has 268 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: one hundred and twenty thousand students. Baltimore City has about 269 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 1: seventy five thousand, so the county is much larger, but 270 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: they have a lot of problems. That system's superintendent just 271 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 1: announced that he's going to be stepping down. He's not 272 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,320 Speaker 1: going to seek a second contract, So new leadership is 273 00:16:41,360 --> 00:16:45,120 Speaker 1: coming into Baltimore County. The parents of Baltimore County got 274 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: together said what is going on in our school system. 275 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:52,320 Speaker 1: They essentially got the superintendent to resign, if you will, 276 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: But that is not happening in the city. The city 277 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: is fully behind its public education system. At least the 278 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: leaders are somebody who tried to change that. Who's with 279 00:17:17,840 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: us today Giovanni Patterson, who ran for Baltimore City Council 280 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty in had the courage to run as 281 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: a Republican and got almost a fifth of the vote. 282 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: But you also, Giovanni, play a bigger role because you 283 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: have really worked on changing things. In twenty twenty two, 284 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:40,800 Speaker 1: he became chairman of People for Elected Accountability and Civic Engagement, 285 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: which is a ballot issue committee that successfully petitioned to 286 00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 1: introduce term limits for Baltimore City. And your wife, Shonda, 287 00:17:49,359 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: was a teacher in Baltimore City schools before deciding to homeschool. 288 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: You're four year old, and I think, if I remember correctly, 289 00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: that you're ten year old goes to a charter school. 290 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: What's been the difference in your experience between the ten 291 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:04,439 Speaker 1: year old and a charter school and what would be 292 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:07,040 Speaker 1: happening if they were in the Baltimore City schools. I 293 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,919 Speaker 1: think there's a lot that goes towards the culture of 294 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,120 Speaker 1: education in Baltimore City as well so in our home. 295 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: You know, we're very focused on education, but you know, 296 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 1: there's some things that I'm not really happy at the 297 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: charter school, and you know, I am working on putting 298 00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: her in a different school. But the difference is night 299 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,680 Speaker 1: and day between you know, charter schools and the home 300 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: schooling and actually the way charter schools are run in 301 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,360 Speaker 1: Baltimore City. One of the big things that have been 302 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: gone on in one of the main issues with this 303 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:37,520 Speaker 1: is accountability, or the lack thereof, And the amazing thing 304 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: about Baltimore City Public schools is that they're able to 305 00:18:40,200 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: hold the charter schools that they want accountable. There's a 306 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: situation going on right now with another charter school in 307 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:50,760 Speaker 1: Baltimore City that's up for renewal, and some of the 308 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,920 Speaker 1: claims against the school are they've been bad stewarts of funds, 309 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 1: they're misusing the public dollar, their processes and procedures are 310 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: being implemented it incorrectly. So a lot of the things 311 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,160 Speaker 1: that they're able to accuse a single school of they're 312 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: guilty of themselves. So it just shows that the schools 313 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,920 Speaker 1: do have the capacity for accountability but don't necessarily want 314 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:14,560 Speaker 1: to apply it to themselves when it comes to the 315 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,359 Speaker 1: traditional schools in Baltimore City. When you look at this, 316 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I think people have 317 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:24,439 Speaker 1: made an argument about is that there's actually deliberate fraud 318 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: by intentionally misrepresenting enrollment data so that they get the 319 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: money for people who actually aren't in the school. I mean, 320 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: is that a serious problem when you look at anything, 321 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 1: just follow the money. But we I think about this. 322 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: I mean, the schools get money from receive money rather 323 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:43,200 Speaker 1: from three different levels. They receive money from the federal level, 324 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:45,960 Speaker 1: the state level, and the local level. Well how do 325 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: they get that money. Well, all this comes through taxes, 326 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,680 Speaker 1: So it is the public's money that they're using and 327 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: misrepresenting to receive that public money. So it is a 328 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 1: big issue because the people that we say, hey, are 329 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: supposed to be a accountable and transparent aren't really being 330 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: accountable and transparent. When you have kids that are enrolled 331 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: that are dead, or kids that are enrolled that haven't 332 00:20:09,600 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 1: been there at all. You know, this issue of ghost 333 00:20:12,080 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: students just to receive the money. I think that's a 334 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: huge issue and it really just lacks transparency and accountability. 335 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:21,560 Speaker 1: So you have followed a lawsuit over the Baltimore City 336 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:24,919 Speaker 1: school System. What's the basis of your lawsuit. Well, it's 337 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,719 Speaker 1: actually pretty interesting speaking ingrich because it's a taxpayer standing 338 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: lawsuit which alleges that the Baltimore City Public schools and 339 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:40,119 Speaker 1: Baltimore City has willingly and knowingly been misusing, misappropriating taxpayer funds, 340 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 1: and the result has been a poor performing school system 341 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: that again lacks transparency, lacks accountability, and is not serving 342 00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:52,520 Speaker 1: the interests of the public. What do your attorneys tell 343 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,840 Speaker 1: you is the basis for getting a different result out 344 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: of this kind of case. In the way you've approached it, 345 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: we do have standing because I am a taxpayer in 346 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: Baltimore City. We submitted a lawsuit, we've actually gone through 347 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,080 Speaker 1: and survived the motion to dismiss, so we are actually 348 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 1: into discovery phase now. So what's going to happen next 349 00:21:11,080 --> 00:21:13,240 Speaker 1: is we're going to find out how much and how 350 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 1: deep this thing goes in terms of frag records, grade changing. 351 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: These things are already illegal or wrong to do by 352 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: the school system, so if they're doing it with the 353 00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: taxpayer funds, they should be held accountable with this. What 354 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: you've done is instead of approaching it as a parent 355 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,160 Speaker 1: who's being cheated in terms of the education standard, you're 356 00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:36,479 Speaker 1: approaching it as a taxpayer who's being cheated because in 357 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: fact they're misusing your money. Who is that an accurate 358 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 1: way to describe it? I mean we're all putting into 359 00:21:42,600 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 1: the system. I mean your property taxes, your federal taxes 360 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 1: that go into this. This is a nationwide issue. I mean, 361 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: we're all pouring money into Baltimore City schools to get 362 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,680 Speaker 1: that one point six billion dollar budget, and the way 363 00:21:54,680 --> 00:21:58,520 Speaker 1: the money gets used is not showing that the Baltimore 364 00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: City Public school system has been good stewards and serving 365 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 1: in the best interest of the people of Baltimore. When 366 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:06,800 Speaker 1: seventy percent of the high school graduates have to have 367 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:11,439 Speaker 1: remedial classes, there ought to be some mechanism where the 368 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: university in effect charges the school system for having failed 369 00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,119 Speaker 1: to do its job. You're basically paying twice. I mean 370 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: you're paying because they're supposed to get educated in grade school, 371 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 1: in high school, and then when that fails, you're paying 372 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,240 Speaker 1: so that they take remedial courses in a public university. 373 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,240 Speaker 1: In a way, you're paying twice for something that should 374 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 1: have happened in the first place. You're absolutely right, you know, 375 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,760 Speaker 1: if the money doesn't follow the child. With things like 376 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: school choice, people who do decide to take their children 377 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,399 Speaker 1: and put them into a different educational model are paying 378 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,679 Speaker 1: twice as well. They still have to pay property taxes 379 00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: and they have to then pay the child's tuition to 380 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: a different school, So some people may end up paying 381 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: three times. Given these kind of results, which are given 382 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,440 Speaker 1: these kind of results, which are devastating to the children 383 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:04,680 Speaker 1: and a huge threat to our entire future as a country. 384 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 1: Why do you think most of the people in Baltimore 385 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:13,800 Speaker 1: City aren't really enraged and angry about this. Well, there's 386 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: a lot of what I call political apathy going on, 387 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 1: and there's so many issues surrounding the people in Baltimore's 388 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: hard to get behind one single issue. And then when 389 00:23:24,119 --> 00:23:27,040 Speaker 1: you do get some momentum behind an issue, it's almost 390 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: like one person in government can just stroke dependent, either 391 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: ostracize you or completely discredit you, and then nothing further happens. 392 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of discouraged people in Baltimore City 393 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 1: that quite honestly feel powerless. When my mom graduated from 394 00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:45,240 Speaker 1: the schools back in the eighties, she said these things 395 00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,480 Speaker 1: were going on in Baltimore City. But again we get 396 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 1: those comments like this is just the way it's always been, 397 00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 1: this is going to be the way it always will be. 398 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: At some point we have to take the stand and 399 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,640 Speaker 1: say no, it doesn't have to be like this anymore, 400 00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 1: and we can expect more and greater from our public systems. 401 00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: But also, you know, it goes back to culture as well. 402 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: We have to have a culture surrounded by education. We 403 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,960 Speaker 1: have to value education as a community, as a city 404 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 1: to see a lot of these things change. There's just 405 00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 1: so many different aspects that go in. There's not a 406 00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:17,720 Speaker 1: magic fix for everything, but is it is going to 407 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: take a lot of action from a lot of different 408 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: sources to get to the true success that we wish 409 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:26,080 Speaker 1: to see. Well, you would love to have happened as 410 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:31,920 Speaker 1: a genuine citizens reform movement that decided that the children 411 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: were worth saving. The idea that seventy five thousand young 412 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:39,080 Speaker 1: Americans are trapped in this kind of failure which will 413 00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: then affect their entire lives and affect their communities is 414 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:48,159 Speaker 1: I think pretty horrifying. I agree with you. And also, 415 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 1: the schools have kind of positioned themselves as the saviors 416 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,439 Speaker 1: and the ones that know everything, and we see this 417 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: really going on across the country with parents being seen 418 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:01,520 Speaker 1: as less than value to the schools. I mean, there 419 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,280 Speaker 1: was no school board member in Iowa that stated the 420 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:07,040 Speaker 1: client is not the parent, The client is the community. 421 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,720 Speaker 1: So they're essentially negating and not including the parents. And 422 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,439 Speaker 1: that's exactly what's happened in a lot of ways in 423 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:17,240 Speaker 1: Baltimore City, where a lot of parents do feel like 424 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: the school system have positioned themselves as the experts and 425 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: the all knowing ones and now have essentially led us 426 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: down a dark path where our kids are not educated 427 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 1: and they're taking our money to do that. Christian is 428 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: impossible to create a reform movement and how much of 429 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,600 Speaker 1: that is just apathy and how much of it is 430 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:42,200 Speaker 1: the power of the teachers union. Well, it's certainly not impossible, 431 00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: but as we mentioned earlier, the teachers Union has a 432 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 1: lot of power, They have a lot of money, and 433 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: they are generally supporting of the status quo. And their 434 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,959 Speaker 1: plan to fix the problem is to put more money 435 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,800 Speaker 1: into the system. And we talked about the Kurwin Plan 436 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,280 Speaker 1: and how it's going to add thirty billion additional tax 437 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,199 Speaker 1: dollars to the public education system in Maryland in the 438 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: first ten years. And this bill was passed two years 439 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:15,760 Speaker 1: ago during the pandemic. And the way that they see 440 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:20,880 Speaker 1: the future of education is really by negating the idea 441 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: of charter schools. They don't like charter schools. Maryland has 442 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: very difficult rules for owning and creating a charter school. 443 00:26:28,720 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: I think there's only about thirty five charter schools in 444 00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,480 Speaker 1: the entire state of Maryland, forty at the most in 445 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: a fairly large state. Because the teachers unions when the 446 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: charter school laws were written, made sure that the charter 447 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: schools were unionized. They didn't have a choice, they had 448 00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,679 Speaker 1: to unionize. So they have a lot of power in 449 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,440 Speaker 1: this state. And as long as the money is flowing 450 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: and the votes are flowing and the politicians want to 451 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,240 Speaker 1: support of the teachers unions in order to be able 452 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:00,040 Speaker 1: to win, it's going to be really hard for a 453 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 1: lot of these movements to have success, which I think 454 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: journalistically is very interesting to see how Jivanni has put 455 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: forth his lawsuit, because if you can't do it through 456 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: the political process, perhaps you can affect positive change through 457 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,959 Speaker 1: the court system. And we have seen that before, and 458 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,800 Speaker 1: we saw it with a civil rights movement and in 459 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:25,359 Speaker 1: the fifties and the sixties. Are we seeing that now? 460 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: And is that the solution to a lot of the 461 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:30,320 Speaker 1: issues that you're seeing in Baltimore City with education? And 462 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 1: I'll just make one other point. People are choosing what 463 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 1: they want to do with their feet. The population of 464 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: Baltimore has lost hundreds of thousands of people over the 465 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 1: past few decades and is continuing to shrink even since 466 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty census. Baltimore has lost population. People are 467 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: leaving as soon as they have kids. They're getting out 468 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: of the city, and we're seeing the numbers. We're seeing 469 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: it happen. So people are choosing to leave. And what 470 00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the people in Maryland want to see 471 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: is that you don't have to leave your home, you 472 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: don't have to uproot from your community and go to 473 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 1: another place. If the money could follow the student and 474 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:11,960 Speaker 1: you could get to another school without having to move, 475 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,359 Speaker 1: why not just allow that to happen instead of having 476 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,800 Speaker 1: to force a parent to go through the inconvenience of 477 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 1: selling their home and buying another. But I do think 478 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,720 Speaker 1: it's possible that there could be a lot of change 479 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: in Baltimore City, but it's a significant uphill battle. The 480 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:33,159 Speaker 1: federal government has a real interest, both because young Americans 481 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,880 Speaker 1: are being cheated and what I think is the real 482 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 1: civil rights issue of our time, and because federal dollars 483 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,880 Speaker 1: are being wasted on a grand scale. So it strikes 484 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,080 Speaker 1: me that at some point down the road there may 485 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: be a federal involvement in cleaning up places like Baltimore City, 486 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,440 Speaker 1: just because we'll never compete with China if we produce 487 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: people who can't read, can't write. I have no understanding 488 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,760 Speaker 1: of the modern world. It's impossible for us to maintain 489 00:29:02,280 --> 00:29:05,720 Speaker 1: this civilization and this level of prosperity unless we have 490 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,600 Speaker 1: people who actually learn and who can actually do math 491 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: and read and be involved in doing the things that 492 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: are practical. Chris and Giovanni, I want to thank you 493 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: for joining me. I'm looking forward very much to following 494 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: Giovanni's case, and I think the discovery process may in 495 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: fact lead to remarkable new knowledge about just how bad 496 00:29:25,720 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: the system is and how it works. Chris, I want 497 00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:32,120 Speaker 1: to keep following your reporting for Project Baltimore, which people 498 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: can watch at Fox Baltimore dot com. And I think 499 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: the two of you really offer me hope for a 500 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:42,080 Speaker 1: better future. And I'm really delighted that you would join 501 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: me on news World. Thank you, mister speaker. I greatly 502 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 1: appreciate you having us back on, and we'll come on anytime. 503 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,080 Speaker 1: I think that was happening in Baltimore City is something 504 00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: that does deserve more national attention. You talk about what 505 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: we have already discussed in terms of the numbers and 506 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 1: the data. That stuff is real. That's a major city 507 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: in America that is seeing educational outcomes like that, and 508 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: hopefully it can garner more attention and more solutions. Giovanni, 509 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 1: thank you also. I mean you're showing great courage and 510 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: great discipline. It's the kind of citizenship we need more of. 511 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: Thanks again for having me as well, and I look 512 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,800 Speaker 1: forward to being back. Thank you to my guests Chris 513 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,040 Speaker 1: Papst and Giovanni Patterson. You can get links to Chris's 514 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,920 Speaker 1: reporting on Project Baltimore on our show page at newtsworld 515 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: dot com. News World is produced by Gingwish three sixty 516 00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:36,720 Speaker 1: and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer is Garnsey Sloan, our producer 517 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: is Rebecca Howe, and our researcher is Rachel Peterson. The 518 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Pendley. Special 519 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingwish three sixty. 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