Speaker 1: My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast
Speaker 1: is joy. I talked to interest in people about what
Speaker 1: brings them happiness. Meet Rita Wilson. She's a producer, she's
Speaker 1: an actress, and she's a hell of a laugh. I
Speaker 1: was just thinking on the way here today, I thought,
Speaker 1: because the traffic was bad, I know, you know, that
Speaker 1: was bad, and I was I was a little grumpy,
Speaker 1: and I thought, I'm a bit grumpy today.
Speaker 2: I'm a little I'm a man called great today. That
Speaker 2: was such a great film.
Speaker 3: Which one the man called Auto.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was a man called Craig. Then I
Speaker 2: was like, I was very cranky. Yeah, how did you
Speaker 2: find that?
Speaker 3: Fortunately it came in a DVD packet through the Academy.
Speaker 3: It was another movie. Then it was I saw the
Speaker 3: Swedish film.
Speaker 2: First, I think you got the script or something.
Speaker 3: No, we developed the script, but I found it through
Speaker 3: the Swedish movie. And then I realized there was a
Speaker 3: book to it, so immediately tried to get the rights
Speaker 3: to the book, which we were able to do, and
Speaker 3: then got a great team together.
Speaker 1: I love that.
Speaker 2: Movie really good.
Speaker 3: I love directed that movie.
Speaker 1: You directed the movie right, produced it okay, which, as
Speaker 1: everybody knows, if you're really into a business show, you
Speaker 1: really did the job.
Speaker 3: You know what. I can be unequivocally honest about that
Speaker 3: and say, yes's.
Speaker 1: True because the only one time I directed a movie
Speaker 1: and I didn't produce it.
Speaker 2: I've only even like three or something, but.
Speaker 1: I directed a movie and I was like, this is
Speaker 1: everybody's telling me stuff and they'n getting my way. Now
Speaker 1: I realized the people that were getting my way with
Speaker 1: the producers, and I'm much happier being the producer than
Speaker 1: being the directors.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's true.
Speaker 2: So let me ask you, because there was I think
Speaker 2: I wanted.
Speaker 1: To ask you about, which is You're the only person
Speaker 1: I know. Now I'll preface this by saying, I have
Speaker 1: become fascinatedly with pre Roman Church Christianity. Oh just fascinated
Speaker 1: by it everything I can about it. I've become totally
Speaker 1: obsessed with it, as is my one. And you're the
Speaker 1: only person I know who I think is in the
Speaker 1: Greek Orthodox Church?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 3: Which is the split? Now?
Speaker 2: You tell me, you tell me what's the difference between
Speaker 2: if you can and now I'm not.
Speaker 1: I don't want to for theological, but I know that
Speaker 1: this split happened round about then you can't.
Speaker 3: I'm so bad at history, really am. But I will
Speaker 3: tell you what I believe is what I understand to
Speaker 3: be some of the differences. Right. And in Greek Orthodoxy,
Speaker 3: which was the older religion, right, the Byzantine exactly was
Speaker 3: before Catholicism, before the schism. What happened in the schism,
Speaker 3: I think is that the Catholics wanted to form a
Speaker 3: different form of Christianity. And what Greek Orthodox don't have
Speaker 3: is a pope, so we don't have a person that
Speaker 3: we say this, you're the top guy and everybody you know,
Speaker 3: you talk directly.
Speaker 2: To God, which the Christians didn't.
Speaker 3: Have, right, And so I think that's one of the differences. Secondly,
Speaker 3: this is my own observation, having a lot of Catholic
Speaker 3: friends and going to a lot of Catholic churches in
Speaker 3: my youth, is in the Greek Orthodox Church, we don't
Speaker 3: really focus so much on the crucifixion as we do
Speaker 3: the resurrection. And I think that's interesting because if you
Speaker 3: walk into a Greek Orthodox cathedral or church, you often
Speaker 3: will see pictures of Christ carrying the cross on his back,
Speaker 3: or you will see pictures of him with the disciples
Speaker 3: or the apostles. There is always a story told of
Speaker 3: the life of Jesus in the church, and there you
Speaker 3: will find one picture of him on the cross being crucified.
Speaker 2: So it's part of the story, is not like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which I think is just I don't know if
Speaker 3: that's my own observation or if that there's intention to that.
Speaker 2: You know what I noticed when I was in Italy
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago.
Speaker 1: I go there a lot because I love it, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I noticed that the beautiful artwork, you know, in
Speaker 1: the Vatican or in the bigger Catholic churches in Italy,
Speaker 1: the very impressive artwork is not mirrored in the rural churches,
Speaker 1: and you can see some really crap pictures. Like I
Speaker 1: was like the church and I was like, what's that. Listen,
Speaker 1: that's this is the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus. So
Speaker 1: I'm like, that to me looks like a bare claiming
Speaker 1: of fans.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look anything.
Speaker 1: And I love the idea that there's you know, valiant
Speaker 1: efforts by people who are not as talented to make
Speaker 1: because of course great artist, just because they're you know,
Speaker 1: depicting the crucifationion or the resurrection.
Speaker 3: But here's the thing, here's being well, there's also one
Speaker 3: other thing in the church. In our church, Greek Orthodoxy,
Speaker 3: priests can marry a priest and they can have children.
Speaker 3: And I think this is important, especially if you're going
Speaker 3: to talk to someone about your marriage. How does someone
Speaker 3: know what you know a marriage is like if they've
Speaker 3: never experienced having a relationship with someone. And I believe
Speaker 3: that if you are a priest, if you are married
Speaker 3: and then become a priest, it's fine that you're married, right,
Speaker 3: but if you become a priest, you then cannot get married.
Speaker 2: After the fact is that in the Catholic Church.
Speaker 3: In the Catholic Church, priests can't.
Speaker 2: Marry, can't marry at all.
Speaker 1: But that was only for that was from the Second
Speaker 1: Vatican Council or something or seven hundred. That was because
Speaker 1: of priests were leaving their you know, their inheritance to
Speaker 1: their children, and the church wanted it. So it was
Speaker 1: it was not really know when celibacy I mean as
Speaker 1: a as a spiritual aesthetic. I goes back to Buddhist
Speaker 1: esthetics and pre Roman Christianity. Because I've become fascinated about
Speaker 1: it because.
Speaker 2: I think someone I think of someone at the door
Speaker 2: with coffee. Actually, hold on.
Speaker 3: It's the priests. They're coming together.
Speaker 2: Hey, wait a minute of the thank.
Speaker 3: You that's so great.
Speaker 2: So there's this guy I've become fascinated by.
Speaker 3: His name is And I want to know why you
Speaker 3: became fascinated with the Greek Orthodox Church.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not so much the Greek Orthodox, but I
Speaker 1: don't know about the Green. I've been surrounded by Catholicism
Speaker 1: my whole. I'm not a Catholic, but I grew up
Speaker 1: in Scotland. There's a lot of Catholics around, and I
Speaker 1: have friends who were Catholics, and so it wasn't mysterious
Speaker 1: to me. But I didn't really have much contact with
Speaker 1: anyone who was in Greek Orthodoxy. And as I was
Speaker 1: reading about the it really I became fascinated by it
Speaker 1: because of being sober. Oh, and sobriety was something that
Speaker 1: they were interested in. It's not part of anything I do,
Speaker 1: but I was, you know, being sober in terms of
Speaker 1: a sober mind and a sober soul. In sobriety not
Speaker 1: just the absence of whatever ales are, but actual sober
Speaker 1: thought is something that they talk about the early and
Speaker 1: I became fascinated by the desert Fathers. And in particular
Speaker 1: someone who was I believe connected to the Greek Orthodox
Speaker 1: or is celebrated in the Greek Orthodox Church, is Evagrius
Speaker 1: of Pontus.
Speaker 3: Have you heard of now?
Speaker 1: He's fascinating figure. He was a theologian, he was a
Speaker 1: desert father, so it was his pre Roman Christianity and
Speaker 1: these aesthetics they go out and it kind of was
Speaker 1: like it really it's a mirror of Christ's forty days
Speaker 1: in the wilderness. And they lived that, but they lived
Speaker 1: there all the time. Saint Anthony lived there, you know,
Speaker 1: and all that and what it became. Vagrius was a theologian.
Speaker 1: Pontus I think was like Northern Turkey or something.
Speaker 2: I mean, everything was all.
Speaker 1: Different then it right, and he came up with the
Speaker 1: eight thoughts, eight demons that will separate you from the divine.
Speaker 3: Oh, I love this.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. And the eight thoughts are and you recognize
Speaker 1: them when I start saying them.
Speaker 3: They are sloth, avarice, lust, you know.
Speaker 1: And suddenly it's the seven deadly sins, right, and the
Speaker 1: seven deadly sins com'st eight eight Well.
Speaker 2: He put and this is what I love.
Speaker 1: I've edited out sadness and sloth were put in together.
Speaker 2: Oh, and I thought, though, that kind of makes sense too.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: But they thought about demons in the way that we
Speaker 1: talk about kind of psychosis or stuff or addictions or stuff.
Speaker 1: And I just became fascinated by that, and I started
Speaker 1: wandering into it. And I knew when you were coming
Speaker 1: in today, I thought, oh, no, you are. I don't
Speaker 1: know how connected you are to your church though, Are
Speaker 1: you very very connect?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 1: You are?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, good. So I can ask you lots about it.
Speaker 3: You can ask me lots about it, but I don't
Speaker 3: know how informed i'll be about it.
Speaker 1: All right, So to be fair, you're not speaking in
Speaker 1: an official capacity for right, okay, right?
Speaker 3: Yes? Did you get married in the Greek church? In
Speaker 3: the church that I got married it's here in Hollywood, right,
Speaker 3: Saint Sofia Cathedral. It's the church I was baptized in, that,
Speaker 3: my sister got married in, that I baptized my nieces
Speaker 3: in that I got married in, baptized my granddaughters in,
Speaker 3: and then also did the rituals from my mom and
Speaker 3: my dad there. So it's kind of like it's been
Speaker 3: all my life.
Speaker 1: They must get so much money out of you, but
Speaker 1: we won't stay. That's a charge, didn't they? Does the docs?
Speaker 1: Does it have the Eucharist? Does it have everything?
Speaker 3: All right? All that we have all the sacraments, we
Speaker 3: have all of the h We don't have a wafer,
Speaker 3: but we actually do bread and wine all right?
Speaker 2: And do you believe in transubstantiations?
Speaker 3: Okay? Now, now this is where I'm probably going to
Speaker 3: get beat up by you know, I don't know critics,
Speaker 3: but oh god, you know we still do the sipping
Speaker 3: of the wine, the communal cup. And during COVID, I
Speaker 3: just stopped taking communion because I was that's okay, I
Speaker 3: can't do this.
Speaker 2: I just fou we're an early adopter of.
Speaker 3: Exactly. You guys were like, I was like, that is fast.
Speaker 3: You guys are very good. We were the first counsel
Speaker 3: of COVID. What that was? That was?
Speaker 1: I mean, you go to in Australia, right, Yes, I
Speaker 1: remember reading about it because I was like, oh my
Speaker 1: god that first of all, I didn't even know that
Speaker 1: it was in Australia, and nobody knew if you were
Speaker 1: going to.
Speaker 3: Die from it, that nobody yes, but nobody knew. It
Speaker 3: was all terrifying and strange. But I have enormous faith
Speaker 3: in my Yeah. And at the same time, there is
Speaker 3: science that says, maybe you don't want to be sipping
Speaker 3: off of a spoon during COVID.
Speaker 1: I think that's okay, And also that I don't know
Speaker 1: what the ritual is in Greek Orthodoxy, and I'm not
Speaker 1: entirely sure, but I don't think it has to be communal,
Speaker 1: or maybe it does, because.
Speaker 3: I was going to be like, it's just been the
Speaker 3: way it's always been, right, Well, it was like that,
Speaker 3: you know. I literally have gone to church early for
Speaker 3: communion on the most obscure like if it's during Holy Week,
Speaker 3: the most obscure morning service that I can take communion
Speaker 3: and I will get there and I will sit in
Speaker 3: the front row and I will be the first person
Speaker 3: up for communion to get to that before anybody that
Speaker 3: first up and you step.
Speaker 2: I think that's very wise, but it does kind of.
Speaker 3: Can I ask you something question, how long have you
Speaker 3: been sober?
Speaker 2: Thirty one years? And I'm happy to say.
Speaker 3: That, Oh my god, yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Got sober when I was twenty nine.
Speaker 3: That's incredible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is it's a It's actually it's one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why I become fascinated with religion, because the
Speaker 1: longer I'm sober, the more I think that's kind of
Speaker 1: a miracle, and it is a miracle, kind of I
Speaker 1: don't really know. I mean, it is kind of a miracle.
Speaker 1: I don't know how it really happened, and I find
Speaker 1: myself interested in these things completely curious.
Speaker 3: I do think it is one of the things that
Speaker 3: I can only think of the word miracle when it
Speaker 3: comes to that, because it's like I have seen people
Speaker 3: transform their lives, sure, and it's because of that, you know.
Speaker 3: It's like one day you're this and the next day
Speaker 3: you're somebody completely different. Well, it's and the day after
Speaker 3: and the day after.
Speaker 1: The reason why I became fascinated by it is because
Speaker 1: and being sober and trying to remain sober and trying
Speaker 1: to improve your sobriety. I guess is that I became
Speaker 1: interested in what happened before. You know, in my case,
Speaker 1: there was an organization which I wouldn't mention for the
Speaker 1: reason of the traditions, but it came into being in
Speaker 1: the mid nineteen thirties and the warham before that. Of course,
Speaker 1: there were temperance movements and all that kind of thing
Speaker 1: before that. But there was an amazing story about Do
Speaker 1: you know the story about Roland Hazard.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 2: Roland Hazard was a drunk from a.
Speaker 1: Rich family in the north east of America in the
Speaker 1: nineteen I think it's been nineteen thirties.
Speaker 2: I guess eli thirties. And he was a hopeless case.
Speaker 1: And eventually the Hazard family, because they had a lot
Speaker 1: of money, sent him to be treated by Carl Jung.
Speaker 3: That's a different kind of rehabit.
Speaker 1: It's crazy, right, So they sent him to Roland has
Speaker 1: to be treated by Carl Jung. But before that they
Speaker 1: had asked Freud and Adler if they would take them,
Speaker 1: and they were.
Speaker 2: Like that, he drunks. We there's nothing we can do.
Speaker 2: I mean, they're hopeless.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: So they sent Roland to Carl Young. Roland Hazard works
Speaker 1: for a year with Carl Young, and Carl Jung says,
Speaker 1: I think I think you're good to go. I don't
Speaker 1: know enough about it.
Speaker 3: Good luck.
Speaker 1: So Roland makes it as far he was in Switzerland,
Speaker 1: he gets as far as Paris, he gets drunk, and
Speaker 1: he goes back again. He says to Carl Jung. I
Speaker 1: don't know what to do. Am I going to And
Speaker 1: Carl Jung says, I think you're going to die. I
Speaker 1: don't think there's what I can do. And he said
Speaker 1: there's nothing. And Carl Jung said, well, look, once in
Speaker 1: a while, Saint Paul on the road to Damascus, a
Speaker 1: person has a religious experience ignacious of Loyola or you know,
Speaker 1: something like that, and they a profound spiritual change that
Speaker 1: so affects their psyche that they can stay sober. But
Speaker 1: unless you get that, I don't know how it's going
Speaker 1: to happen. And so what Roland hazard? He comes back
Speaker 1: to America, He joins the Oxford Group. The Oxford Group
Speaker 1: morph into the organization that you know talking about, and
Speaker 1: they start to try and recreate Bill Wilson, who founded
Speaker 1: Alcoholics Anonymous, starts to try and recreate through a series
Speaker 1: of steps, a profound psychic change that mimics what was
Speaker 1: a religious experience before that in order to alter the
Speaker 1: psyche of the alcoholics so much that they can stay sober.
Speaker 3: Wow, isn't that fascinating? And he did that?
Speaker 1: Well, I think in my case, yes, the psychic change
Speaker 1: the cars because this is not really about me. But
Speaker 1: but I'm interested because you're a religious person, and you've
Speaker 1: always been a religious person. Has there ever been a
Speaker 1: point where you've thought, I don't believe it. I don't
Speaker 1: believe it. It's no, So you haven't had to make
Speaker 1: that that tarn No, my mom.
Speaker 3: Was really the person who was the bringer of the faith, right,
Speaker 3: my dad, he must have Chris made it or converted
Speaker 3: before he married. My mom converted because chrismation is if
Speaker 3: you are already baptized in a religion, but you're going
Speaker 3: to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church, right, or
Speaker 3: not married because you can. You can get married if
Speaker 3: you're a Christian. You don't have to be Greek Orthodox
Speaker 3: to get married in the church. Chris maasan is if
Speaker 3: you want to convert from let's say Catholicism to Greek Orthodoxy.
Speaker 3: So that's kind of slightly different than was your dad
Speaker 3: a Christian? So my dad must have converted in order
Speaker 3: to get married in the church. But after he died,
Speaker 3: I did a TV show called Who Do you Think
Speaker 3: You Are? The Genealogy Show, and we went back to
Speaker 3: his village and everyone everyone was Muslim. Oh okay everyone,
Speaker 3: And my dad always explained it this way. He said
Speaker 3: that where he was from, he was born in Greece,
Speaker 3: and where he was from the area was always being
Speaker 3: occupied by some people, and for many many years, obviously
Speaker 3: it was the Ottoman Empire. And during that time, my
Speaker 3: dad said that many years back, they were Christians, and
Speaker 3: during the Ottoman Empire they were sort of told that
Speaker 3: they had to change their religion, convert to Islam, and
Speaker 3: also to change their names to sound more Islamic. Wow.
Speaker 3: So I think that with Wilson because that was the
Speaker 3: street we lived on when my dad became a citizen
Speaker 3: of the United States. You like, that's just is that why?
Speaker 1: You know, that's not the reason why the ball is Wilson,
Speaker 1: And I think that it is.
Speaker 3: Yes, I mean I feel like I just learned really
Speaker 3: profound No, because there is the name of the volleyball
Speaker 3: is well, there's there's a Wilson brand, there's a Spaulding
Speaker 3: and there's a light.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think that's lovely.
Speaker 1: But it's just like, I feel like I'm weirdly excited
Speaker 1: by that.
Speaker 3: There's something very human about it.
Speaker 2: And I think that's great.
Speaker 3: It's great. It's great, it is great. So that was
Speaker 3: and then you know, I met so many of my
Speaker 3: relatives who are Muslim, and it was just so interesting
Speaker 3: to me because my dad never really talked about it.
Speaker 3: He didn't, you know. There was a lot of things
Speaker 3: I found out about my dad then, you know, after
Speaker 3: he passed away, was well, your.
Speaker 2: Dad was an immigrant, and was your mom an immigrant too.
Speaker 3: My mom was actually born in New York, right, and
Speaker 3: then raised in a little tiny village She's Greek, on
Speaker 3: the border of Albania and Greece. And when the war
Speaker 3: broke out, well, first they went there when she was
Speaker 3: four years old and her father died and so her
Speaker 3: mom my yeah, yeah, grandmother was left with four kids.
Speaker 3: And the relatives in New York said, what are you
Speaker 3: going to do a widow with four children in New York.
Speaker 3: Stay in the village and we'll send money back to you,
Speaker 3: because my grandfather had a business in New York, and
Speaker 3: so they stayed, and over the years, I think money
Speaker 3: stopped being sent, and then around the time of the
Speaker 3: end of the war and also the beginning of the
Speaker 3: civil unrest in Greece, they knew it was time to
Speaker 3: get out, and so they couldn't just walk the border.
Speaker 3: Even though my mom was an American citizen. So they
Speaker 3: had to escape and climb over these mountains and make
Speaker 3: their way onto the Greece side of the border, and
Speaker 3: then eventually made their way to Athens, renewed their passports,
Speaker 3: and then took a ship over to And my dad
Speaker 3: has an amazing story too. My dad's story is that
Speaker 3: he I didn't know any of this until I did
Speaker 3: that show.
Speaker 2: So you, as a kid, you don't know this about
Speaker 2: your mother and father.
Speaker 3: I knew this about my mother, I did not know.
Speaker 3: I knew that my father was in a labor camp,
Speaker 3: but I did not know there was an earlier part
Speaker 3: of the story, which was he was in the army,
Speaker 3: the Bulgarian army, and while he was at the Bulgarian army,
Speaker 3: he saw Seltzer bottles right right from somewhere and he
Speaker 3: took the twelve There were twelve Seltzer bottles, and he
Speaker 3: took them. And knowing what I know about my dad,
Speaker 3: he only did things for other people, so I thought
Speaker 3: he must have had a reason for doing this. And
Speaker 3: my grandfather, he was a hunter, and he had a
Speaker 3: hunting lodge, let's call it small lodge in the mountains
Speaker 3: in the Rhodope mountains, of Bulgaria, and I think he
Speaker 3: must have thought, oh, my dad could use these bottles
Speaker 3: for when he's out on a hunting trip. Anyways, he
Speaker 3: was arrested, he was court martialed, and he was sentenced
Speaker 3: to a prison for taking anti pro three years, Yes,
Speaker 3: three years.
Speaker 2: In prison for taking an empty bottle.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly. They were trying to make an example of him.
Speaker 2: Could the great bottle thieving Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: It was all about bottle thievs. I mean they had
Speaker 3: all the documents there, so it wasn't like there was
Speaker 3: there wasn't anything being hidden. It was just literally and
Speaker 3: this prison was very, very dangerous and treacherous. Anyways, he
Speaker 3: gets out and he meets a girl and they get
Speaker 3: married and she gets pregnant and I knew none of
Speaker 3: this and this is not your mom.
Speaker 2: They were talking no, oh my no.
Speaker 3: And she delivers a baby on December twenty sixth. I
Speaker 3: want you to remember that, okay. And so on December
Speaker 3: twenty ninth, she dies from complications of childbirth, things that
Speaker 3: nowadays modern medicine would be able to take care. Of course. So,
Speaker 3: so my dad is now the father of an infant.
Speaker 3: He's living with his in laws. The tragedy of this
Speaker 3: beautiful young woman dying and this little baby. So this
Speaker 3: was after the war. I don't know how they kept
Speaker 3: that baby alive, because what do you do. There's no milk,
Speaker 3: there's no formula. They could barely have enough bread to eat.
Speaker 3: And four months later the baby died and his name
Speaker 3: was a Meal.
Speaker 2: It's so like, so crazy, sad story.
Speaker 3: Very sad, and I think this is one of the
Speaker 3: reasons why my dad was like, I'm out of here.
Speaker 3: I'm getting out of Bulgaria, and he tried.
Speaker 2: I never knew any of it.
Speaker 3: I never knew anything. But what's ironic is my sister's
Speaker 3: first child was born on December twenty sixth, and my
Speaker 3: second son was born on December twenty sixth, and I
Speaker 3: always thought on Christmas and that next day, which was
Speaker 3: always a big celebration in our family, that my dad
Speaker 3: was must have been thinking about his firstborn son, Emil
Speaker 3: and knowing that, like, yeah, what what is this about.
Speaker 3: I have baby? Everybody in my family's having babies on
Speaker 3: December twenty sixth.
Speaker 1: It's funny my wife has a grandfather who has it
Speaker 1: is not the same story in it, but he was
Speaker 1: from a country that no longer exists, and in that
Speaker 1: area the republic of something or something, and he came
Speaker 1: over and they could never find out what he did.
Speaker 1: But he would always carry cash. And he had a
Speaker 1: farm in Massachusetts, and he would always carry cash in
Speaker 1: the so for alls, just in case, just in case, because.
Speaker 3: You never know what we have to fear. Run. Nothing
Speaker 3: takes away that fear. I think it's no, it's true.
Speaker 1: It's strange because you don't get free of it. I
Speaker 1: was talking to I was talking you know, Dik Shepherd.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Dyks loved dad.
Speaker 2: He's great. I was talking to him the other day.
Speaker 1: And he grew up in kind of difficult circumstances in Troy,
Speaker 1: and and I grew up not rich either. And I
Speaker 1: don't think that feeling ever leaves you. It doesn't matter
Speaker 1: how much money you make. You know, it's like, no,
Speaker 1: keep some aside face.
Speaker 3: My dad was a bartender, and so he would work
Speaker 3: and bring and you know, he would get tips, and
Speaker 3: so he would bring the tips home in a Crown
Speaker 3: Royal felt bag, you know, yes, okay, And on Saturday mornings,
Speaker 3: we would spread out all the coins on the kitchen
Speaker 3: table and we would take the quarters and put him
Speaker 3: in the little bank rolls of coins right the I
Speaker 3: would still do this, I totally. It was like this
Speaker 3: meditative Yeah, he would do that. And that's why I
Speaker 3: always think like, Wow, you know, you've got to take
Speaker 3: care of the people who are in those positions that
Speaker 3: you know they're going home with those tips and taking
Speaker 3: those tips to their families and putting them in rolls
Speaker 3: and making a living out of it. By my mom
Speaker 3: used to keep a secret money in her wallet, like
Speaker 3: twenty dollars and I'm like, but it's not secret because
Speaker 3: you put it there. I know, I know, but it
Speaker 3: wasn't in the part where she would actually access it right.
Speaker 2: Right in the other bed behind your driver's license.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad would take money and he would put
Speaker 3: it in a lead pipe so he would just like
Speaker 3: whatever bills he would like. It was like his bank account.
Speaker 3: He would put it in a lead pipe that had
Speaker 3: screws lids on each end in case there was a fire.
Speaker 1: You growing up, Yeah, it's crazy if you grew up
Speaker 1: the child of immigrants with a shocking story, but in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: So I feel like I always believed in them, not
Speaker 1: believed in the myth. That sounds wrong, but I was
Speaker 1: always much more impressed by Hollywood and Hollywood ness until
Speaker 1: I started doing the Late night Show and then you
Speaker 1: just meet everybody, and then you just realize it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, the dousche dementia ratio is just the same
Speaker 1: as it as everywhere else in the world.
Speaker 2: Some people are great, some people are assholes, isn't it?
Speaker 1: And it's fine, right, But until that point I had
Speaker 1: there was a mistique about Hollywood that I really believed in.
Speaker 1: Did you not never have that because you grew up
Speaker 1: here or did it crumble over time like it did
Speaker 1: for me?
Speaker 3: No, it was just my hometown, right, And I knew
Speaker 3: that people came here from all over the world to
Speaker 3: pursue their dreams, but this was my hometown. I went
Speaker 3: to Hollywood High School Lacante Junior High which is right
Speaker 3: down the street right Hollywood Boulevard was where we would
Speaker 3: go and get back to school clothes, your bike.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can't do.
Speaker 3: That in Hollywood Boulevard.
Speaker 1: Now if your bands go closed in Hollywood, it's a
Speaker 1: completely different looking for a different kind of school.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's And we would go to movies at the
Speaker 3: Chinese Theater and go to Musso and Franks on a
Speaker 3: special occasion and it was just home. But I started
Speaker 3: modeling first at fourteen years old, right here at Hollywood
Speaker 3: High School.
Speaker 1: I was discovered that quotation took me through the discovery
Speaker 1: but a little bit.
Speaker 3: It was first day of school. Yeah, yeah, it was
Speaker 3: kind of like that, except they were legit. They were
Speaker 3: from Harper's Bizarre magazine, but I didn't know that at
Speaker 3: the time, And the photographer was a very famous photographer
Speaker 3: nowadays he's still alive. His name's Albert Watson. He's incredible,
Speaker 3: right Scottish, I believe is he really is, and so
Speaker 3: is his wife, I think. So. He saw me walking
Speaker 3: and asked, they had permission from the school to be there,
Speaker 3: if you could take some pictures. She's very beautiful, and
Speaker 3: so they took some pictures, and he asked the next
Speaker 3: day if we could arrange another time to meet, and
Speaker 3: so we did and took more pictures, and that ended
Speaker 3: up being the first modeling job I ever had, which
Speaker 3: was for Harper's Bizarre magazine, which is very swanky, very swanky,
Speaker 3: very very swanky. It was the year eighteen year old's
Speaker 3: got the vote. Okay, so it was there nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 3: January nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 2: Issue no I believe is that when eighteen year olds
Speaker 2: got the vote here.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So but after that I just started working.
Speaker 3: And the first job I got to get my screen
Speaker 3: Hunter's Guild card was The Brady Bunch, and that was
Speaker 3: at Paramount Studios. Now still to this day, if I
Speaker 3: walk into a driving, into a studio, walk into a
Speaker 3: sound stage, I have that feeling of its magic. It's
Speaker 3: a very specific smell, exactly climate. It's a volume of height,
Speaker 3: it's the color of the walls, it's the energy. Now
Speaker 3: like certain studios are putting plaques on the outsides of
Speaker 3: their sound stages like this is what was filmed here,
Speaker 3: and it's fantastic. And all good things have always happened
Speaker 3: to me at Paramount Studios, So I love Paramount Studios.
Speaker 3: So it was a trippy thing because I don't know
Speaker 3: why this. I was lucky. But with all of that
Speaker 3: that I was exposed to and all the different kinds
Speaker 3: of people that I was exposed to, I never had
Speaker 3: anything terrible happened to me in La.
Speaker 1: I mean it was just like, I wonder if that's
Speaker 1: because you knew the neighborhood. I mean, like not just
Speaker 1: knew the neighborhood, like the streets, but you like, if
Speaker 1: you grew up amongst it, if you're kind of you
Speaker 1: speak the.
Speaker 2: Language almost well.
Speaker 1: I think if people come here, particularly young women, If
Speaker 1: young women come here and they're white eyed in there,
Speaker 1: you know, it may bee maybe attracts.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't know. I mean because I
Speaker 3: had a lot of friends that bad things happened. Yeah, so,
Speaker 3: and yes they did come from other places. But look,
Speaker 3: it has it change? Has the time changed?
Speaker 2: Do you think has it changed?
Speaker 3: I think it's much scarier now. It's much scarier now.
Speaker 1: There's just there's it feels like it's everywhere now like
Speaker 1: the world is Hollywood.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like there was still a some kind of
Speaker 3: accountability this. The town was not as big as it
Speaker 3: is now. For one thing, now, I think La is
Speaker 3: like twenty million just lap. That's like bigger than some countries.
Speaker 2: So four times size of Scotland.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly so. But I feel like, you know, there
Speaker 3: were things like the Christmas Parade on Hollywood Boulevard where
Speaker 3: my dad we would come down and you know, you'd
Speaker 3: pack up in the car, we'd park blocks away and
Speaker 3: then you know, he'd carry me on his shoulders and
Speaker 3: we would wait for Nudy to come down in his Cadillac. Nudy.
Speaker 3: Nudy was a big Western guy. Did you ever like
Speaker 3: that guy Nudy on Hollywood? Bud is a different nud
Speaker 3: that goes back to that other kind of school, but that.
Speaker 1: There was a I moved here in nineteen ninety five
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles, and even then there was a.
Speaker 2: Kind of sleepiness to the town.
Speaker 3: There was a change.
Speaker 1: It really did, yes, And I can't I can't quite
Speaker 1: tell when I think it's something to do with uber
Speaker 1: or smartphones or GPS or something. Something something happened and yeah,
Speaker 1: really really different.
Speaker 2: Or maybe I'd just go older, or.
Speaker 3: Maybe no, No, something did change. It would It would
Speaker 3: be so fascinating when somebody could analyze that and say
Speaker 3: what was the difference, Like what was that shift that
Speaker 3: that happened and why? I don't know. I really don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe maybe phones or computers. Computers were out in ninety six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think when people started, you know, there used
Speaker 1: to be the sign where you couldn't there's a sign
Speaker 1: that said no walking to the Hollywood sign.
Speaker 2: And I lived up in the hills and you can
Speaker 2: walk to.
Speaker 1: The Holliday Actually could walk to the Hollywood Sign, but
Speaker 1: they would put signs up saying that you couldn't, and
Speaker 1: you could wander up there, and that was always the
Speaker 1: walk that I I'd walk up man.
Speaker 2: Hollywood and down by the Observer Change.
Speaker 3: Great beautiful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I did it recently when I was here,
Speaker 1: and it's packed.
Speaker 3: Everybody knows where to go. Oh, you're kidding, it's packed.
Speaker 2: There's like people above the sign. There are all tourists
Speaker 2: up there. They all walk up there, and I mean,
Speaker 2: I get every right to go.
Speaker 3: It's just so many walked up to the Hollywood sign.
Speaker 3: Born and raised. Don't even know how to get there. No,
Speaker 3: I don't even know how well. I wouldn't want to
Speaker 3: bother the neighbors up there. There's nobody up there but
Speaker 3: coyotes and still. Yeah, but now tourists you missed, Yeah,
Speaker 3: but I mean there were. I mean nowadays, if you
Speaker 3: go up there, I think it's very like it it's rude, right,
Speaker 3: you don't want to disturb the residents and things like that.
Speaker 2: You can there's pass up to you can walk up
Speaker 2: to it from It's all right, And it might.
Speaker 3: Be rude I don't know. Funny, I don't know.
Speaker 1: No, you can get up through canyon, and I'll tell you.
Speaker 1: You can walk up through canyon the secret way up because.
Speaker 2: The Batman Caves are over there, the Batman Cave.
Speaker 1: Well, you just you go up past the Batman Caves
Speaker 1: and then you walk right. It's really steep walk up
Speaker 1: the hill and then you walk over to the left
Speaker 1: and you're above the ho Did.
Speaker 3: You ever go horseback riding at Sunset Stables? I did
Speaker 3: go over into Burbank for the night. And then have
Speaker 3: you done that?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: I love that? It was so much fun. They still
Speaker 3: do it apparently.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I fell off a horse recently.
Speaker 3: Do you ride horses? I do. I love horses.
Speaker 2: I like horses too, but I write English.
Speaker 3: No.
Speaker 1: I have a Western saddle in Scotland. But my horse
Speaker 1: we put the Western saddle on them. My wife is very,
Speaker 1: very very horsey, very no in appearance.
Speaker 4: No, she's not horsey appearance, but she's gorgeous. She's gorgeous,
Speaker 4: but she's she has a beautiful pony. But we put
Speaker 4: this I think they call it the girth on the
Speaker 4: English shaddley where they call it, they call it the
Speaker 4: girl like.
Speaker 3: The bridle or not the bridle, the girth.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the girl. So I think it was pinching his
Speaker 1: little leggy bit. Oh no, and he he buckd. He's
Speaker 1: only ever buked twice. Once I saw it when he
Speaker 1: was lungeon I was lunging him, and then the other
Speaker 1: time I was on him and I came off.
Speaker 2: He's a big horse too.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: I was very and I'm sixty one years old. I've
Speaker 1: fallen off many horses, and I've noticed over the years
Speaker 1: that it hurts a lot more now than.
Speaker 2: Do you ever have an accident on your horse.
Speaker 3: I've been thrown from a horse, sure, but nothing that
Speaker 3: resulted in injury. My injuries are from the two times
Speaker 3: I tried snowboarding. Because I ski hearts so much morning.
Speaker 3: Why you fall? You as your feet are stuck together
Speaker 3: on a board, you can't escape. No.
Speaker 1: It's like I like to say at the end of
Speaker 1: a rule in a movie theater in case I have
Speaker 1: to leave, and I feel the same about skiing and
Speaker 1: still boarding.
Speaker 3: I don't want my feet exactly. I gotta go bye.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I gotta leave.
Speaker 3: Sorry, something came up. I go to leave. Do you
Speaker 3: let me ask you a question? Then? Did you ever
Speaker 3: get a fear of flying. I used to. I don't
Speaker 3: anymore want to hear why. It was very specific. I
Speaker 3: had two friends, sorry, one friend, and he was in
Speaker 3: a plane crash. The crash, the plane went off the runway,
Speaker 3: the plane caught fire. Everybody got out and survived, so
Speaker 3: it had a happy end that But I called his
Speaker 3: wife when it happened and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 3: how was he doing? Oh my gosh, they're they're British.
Speaker 3: And I said, well, I said, that's why I don't fly.
Speaker 3: When when the kids were little, Tom and I didn't
Speaker 3: fly on the same plane. Yeah, we take different flights
Speaker 3: and all that. And I said, you know, that's why
Speaker 3: we don't fly together. And she said, Darling, if you
Speaker 3: don't fly together, then you shouldn't really drive together because
Speaker 3: the chances of being in a car crash off far greater.
Speaker 3: And she was right, the statistics are actually true, oh,
Speaker 3: the statistics. So that kind of calmed me.
Speaker 1: I was like, okay, the idea of you, once the
Speaker 1: doors are closed, you hand the power over to someone
Speaker 1: else and that always.
Speaker 2: But I actually what I did is I learned to fly.
Speaker 3: Your own plane.
Speaker 2: Yeah I did.
Speaker 3: What did that do? But you know Kurt Russell.
Speaker 1: Yes, right, so Carl, you know cars like crazy, Yes, aviator.
Speaker 1: So I said to him he was on the old
Speaker 1: Late Night Show and I said, I'm frightened of flying.
Speaker 1: I know you love flying, and I'm frightened of flying.
Speaker 3: He said, you're not frightened to flying.
Speaker 2: You're just a control freak. And I went, that's not true,
Speaker 2: and I went, it is true. I read your book
Speaker 2: and I went, you read my book.
Speaker 1: And then I ended up talking to about the book
Speaker 1: because I was so excited that Kurt read my book.
Speaker 2: But he didn't forget.
Speaker 1: And so for my birthday, Megan called up Kurt and said, hey,
Speaker 1: let's get him some flying.
Speaker 2: Lessons because I used to be terrified of flying.
Speaker 1: And he went great, and he found a flying and
Speaker 1: struck a really gnarly old guy over at Vanny's Airport.
Speaker 1: Took me up and after about seven hours of flying
Speaker 1: instruction for me where I was terrified, Kurt said.
Speaker 3: You come up with me.
Speaker 2: I was like, oh God, So he has this super
Speaker 2: powerful plane.
Speaker 3: Right, there's a tea.
Speaker 1: I don't know if he still has it, but he's
Speaker 1: a at a TBM seven hundred.
Speaker 2: It was like a rocket ship.
Speaker 1: And we go up to this plane and we fly
Speaker 1: just from Santa Monica over Santa Maria Airport. It's done
Speaker 1: far and as we're landing there's a bit of a
Speaker 1: crosswind and he said land the plane.
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not ready for that.
Speaker 3: He went, well, I ain't doing it.
Speaker 1: So and eventually, you know, I did it and I
Speaker 1: got it close and then he took over and he
Speaker 1: landed the plane. Oh, I was I was terrified. But
Speaker 1: you can't cry in front a snake. Plusken, there's no
Speaker 1: you can't, you know. But I went home and something
Speaker 1: cracked a little bit. I don't know what it was.
Speaker 1: When I went home, I was like, no, it's different.
Speaker 1: I understood the mechanics of it a little bit.
Speaker 3: So now are you less afraid to fly in a
Speaker 3: commercial flight?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say that I am.
Speaker 3: Because you understand the mechanics.
Speaker 2: I understand how it works. Yeah, And I understand that.
Speaker 1: I also understand that the person that's flying the plane
Speaker 1: is far more qualified than I am to do the job.
Speaker 3: So that kind of works. Don't put him on a
Speaker 3: late night show or a podcast. He can't do it.
Speaker 1: Who can't the pilot or the pilot? They are very
Speaker 1: specific breed pilots. Actually, did you never get into that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind.
Speaker 3: Of a Hollywood thing.
Speaker 1: There's a community of people here that do it, and
Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised with the people that. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, and you run Edward Norton
Speaker 1: at the airport or you know, travel is famously a
Speaker 1: flyer or tom Cruise or like there's a whole I'm like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, this is like.
Speaker 3: The oscars is exactly here.
Speaker 1: The ocar in like really fancy suits. So I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: everyone's wearing pressure suits. It's cool, but it's kind of
Speaker 1: like and I thought it'd be like super expensive and
Speaker 1: it is.
Speaker 3: But you know, so do you still do it? Do
Speaker 3: you still take less? I have?
Speaker 1: I have a little little, tiny two seater plane that
Speaker 1: I can only fly at certain times of the year
Speaker 1: because of the weather.
Speaker 3: But wow, and you keep it in Scotland? I do,
Speaker 3: but I share it with a guy who's a really
Speaker 3: good pilot. Okay, so when you go, you take a
Speaker 3: co pilot with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well let's say I take the co pilot. But
Speaker 1: really I'm just sitting going, Yeah, what does that do?
Speaker 1: Can I have a show? Can I have a show.
Speaker 1: Do you have a thing that your antidote to show business?
Speaker 1: Because it's such an odd kind of capricious world and
Speaker 1: that you know, it's just by the nature of it.
Speaker 2: I don't mind it. I think that's the way it is.
Speaker 2: It's the circus.
Speaker 1: But I often feel I'm drawn very much to things
Speaker 1: which are innanted, which take my head out of it.
Speaker 3: Do you do that, do you? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I mean you have your faith obviously.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, first of all, my family super close to them.
Speaker 3: After this, I'm going to go see my brother lives
Speaker 3: right up nearby. Nice. But I have to be outside
Speaker 3: in nature. Like I love swimming, I love hiking. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I love walking. Anything that is outside is that is
Speaker 3: just heaven for me. And also I really like driving
Speaker 3: by my like I just love it. I feel like
Speaker 3: it's a cocoon and you could think and nothing, you know,
Speaker 3: Like it's almost like a meditation in a way. I like,
Speaker 3: what's that expression that they used to say, idle hands
Speaker 3: or the devil's work or something like that, But it's
Speaker 3: the idea that you're using your hands to do something
Speaker 3: and it frees up your brain. So my mom was
Speaker 3: a big crocheer, and people who cook or garden or
Speaker 3: sew or any of that stuff, or work on you know, cars.
Speaker 1: They have Christian desert mystics. They would make they make baskets,
Speaker 1: they would weave baskets. They were in constant prayer, right.
Speaker 3: And so that I think that's a form of meditation, right,
Speaker 3: And I love that. I listened to music, I listen
Speaker 3: to books on tape, but mostly I just like to
Speaker 3: let the mind wonder. Are your gearhead? Do you like
Speaker 3: have special cars?
Speaker 2: Do you like go to Jaylenel's and say, let me
Speaker 2: try this one.
Speaker 3: I don't. Actually my car is You're gonna think this
Speaker 3: is crazy. Ten years old. You know how most people
Speaker 3: get a brand new car like everything. Now my car
Speaker 3: is ten years old, never getting rid of it. I
Speaker 3: love it. You know.
Speaker 1: One of a big thing that happened to me in Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I was working in Warner Brothers and I was in
Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties and I just go here. I was
Speaker 1: doing the Drew Giarrey Show and Clint Eastwood was working
Speaker 1: in the Warner Brothers law and he drove in in
Speaker 1: a ten year old Ford Explorer and I was like, that,
Speaker 1: so fucking cool.
Speaker 3: That's so cool. It's like I don't care exactly.
Speaker 1: It is like, you know, it's not going to make
Speaker 1: me anymore Clint Eastwood advice, right, just I love the
Speaker 1: kind of like, yeah, it's a car.
Speaker 3: I have a car, one of my cars. It's a truck.
Speaker 3: Is I should say? Ours is twenty one years old.
Speaker 2: I think that's great though. I love it.
Speaker 3: Hang on long enough and they become vintage. That's right.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm trying that for myself as well.
Speaker 1: I feel like if I can survive long enough, it'll
Speaker 1: come back around again. I noticed kids at my stand
Speaker 1: up shows now and they're like under thirty.
Speaker 3: I'm like, what the hell are you doing here?
Speaker 1: Then I thought you're here ironically, aren't you?
Speaker 4: It's because of TikTok or something?
Speaker 3: What about that? Do you do TikTok?
Speaker 1: I was about to ask you. I kind of dip
Speaker 1: in and out of it. But I treat it the
Speaker 1: same way as I do with anything that I don't.
Speaker 1: I don't read anything the MD else puts out right.
Speaker 1: I just like, I do my thing and then I
Speaker 1: run away.
Speaker 3: I know I have an account, but I've never been
Speaker 3: onto it. I don't know how to do it.
Speaker 2: Do you do the Instagram or any.
Speaker 3: Of the Instagram and Facebook and Twitter right formally then
Speaker 3: is Twitter? I think Twitter is is it's kind of
Speaker 3: going away? I think now is that what I I
Speaker 3: wish I would all go away? I kind of do too.
Speaker 3: Can I leave now? We haven't hasn't it had its moment?
Speaker 3: Can't we just go back to like looking at each other?
Speaker 3: I was honking to each other.
Speaker 1: I was hoping it was going to be like Cbe Radio,
Speaker 1: like you come and go, and that would be it.
Speaker 1: I think I feel that it kind of I remember
Speaker 1: actually Tom was scheduled to do a sport in my
Speaker 1: old late night show, and for some reason he couldn't
Speaker 1: do it, and he wrote very classy gentleman as I'm
Speaker 1: sure you know, he wrote a no.
Speaker 2: Of apology and it was written in an old typewriter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I went, oh my god, that's so cool
Speaker 1: because it wasn't just somebody had just done it. No,
Speaker 1: it's all there was some thought in it, and it
Speaker 1: marred to me. It was like it was like it
Speaker 1: was like it really was something.
Speaker 3: There's something really good about analog things. I agree written
Speaker 3: not a hand type note.
Speaker 2: I listened to my music on vinyl now you've gone
Speaker 2: back to that.
Speaker 3: My new album's coming on on know soon.
Speaker 2: Your country artists sort of kind of.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, I love that. I'd like to say that
Speaker 3: I'm southern southern California. Southern California. Why not.
Speaker 2: It's like that NASCAR guy that's from California.
Speaker 1: I can't remember his name, but yeah, he's sort of
Speaker 1: southern California.
Speaker 3: But I love Vinyl. I love it so much. It
Speaker 3: reminds me. There's, first of all, it's textile, yeah, and
Speaker 3: it reminds me of how we used to listen to
Speaker 3: music as a whole. So there was a narrative story
Speaker 3: that the artist or the band was looking to tell,
Speaker 3: and you would listen to it and there'd be that
Speaker 3: moment where his side one was over side A and
Speaker 3: he'd flip it over and do side B and it
Speaker 3: was just like, I love the ritual of that.
Speaker 2: That's the smell of it.
Speaker 3: Like the smell of it, I know.
Speaker 1: And then the thing is as well, is that you
Speaker 1: can listen to Vinyl a little volume and here's stuff
Speaker 1: that you can't hear. I never know is that until
Speaker 1: very recently minute and I played it to our youngest
Speaker 1: boy is twelve and I got this final setup and
Speaker 1: I played it to him for the first time and
Speaker 1: it was like a big electronica thing as a Scotch
Speaker 1: band called Mogwai and it's like it's real bra you know,
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: And I played it too him. He went, oh my god,
Speaker 2: what is this?
Speaker 3: Wow? I said, this is this is analog music speakers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And he was like, I love this.
Speaker 2: He said, I feel I've been robbed.
Speaker 3: I said, you have exactly turned him on. Get him
Speaker 3: his own turd table. There was a woman that lived
Speaker 3: up the street from us when we were growing up,
Speaker 3: and she worked at Capitol Records. So this was during
Speaker 3: the sixties when the Beatles were assigned to Capitol. Wow.
Speaker 3: So whenever there was an album a Beatles album released,
Speaker 3: she would bring it to us and my sister, well
Speaker 3: all three of us, we would just put that thing on.
Speaker 3: Call it a high fi Why was it a high
Speaker 3: fived high fidel? But it had a turn My dad
Speaker 3: made it. It had a turntable on one side, it
Speaker 3: had the tuners on the other side and the amps,
Speaker 3: and then the middle was the television set and we
Speaker 3: would just that is so cool in front of that.
Speaker 3: I wish wouldn't that be great if somebody came out
Speaker 3: with a high five but like a really proper with
Speaker 3: all the good technology, but made it look like it
Speaker 3: was in a piece of cality.
Speaker 2: I bet you could do it.
Speaker 1: I found that a nineteen thirties wooden radio in the
Speaker 1: house in Scotland, and the what we call the sellers
Speaker 1: is kind of crept and I don't know why the
Speaker 1: radio was down there, but all the valves and stuff
Speaker 1: were gone. But there is a company that will put
Speaker 1: new inrds in it for all.
Speaker 3: That's so cool. Do you live in an old house
Speaker 3: in Scotland? It's pretty old? Is it haunted? Yes? Really?
Speaker 3: What kind of ghosts? What kind of things have you
Speaker 3: heard or seen?
Speaker 2: Well, there's always bumps and squeaks and do you believe
Speaker 2: in all this?
Speaker 3: We had one house that had things that were inexplicable.
Speaker 3: I love this. Told me too.
Speaker 2: The most haunted US I've ever lived in was in
Speaker 2: the Hollywood Hills.
Speaker 3: What yes, Okay, tell me what happened.
Speaker 2: I didn't know what happened, but it was scary.
Speaker 3: Megan was like, what dill is that?
Speaker 1: And it was like, ah, maybe the homeless guy. I
Speaker 1: don't know, but it was. It was scary. It was
Speaker 1: a scary house.
Speaker 3: That's wild.
Speaker 2: Where was your haunted hos?
Speaker 3: It was an old nineteen twenty six Mediterranean's the okay?
Speaker 2: That Maine was a nineteen twenty six Mediterranean.
Speaker 3: What? Yeah, they were like they were friends, you may
Speaker 3: us were friends? Maybe? Where was it was in the
Speaker 3: Hollywood h no in Santa Monica area?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 3: Okay? So here's the thing though, that there were just
Speaker 3: inexplicable things and everybody heard them, and you just couldn't
Speaker 3: explain why the TV would go on by itself in
Speaker 3: the middle of the night. Seen why. It sounded like
Speaker 3: there was somebody dropping a stack of books to the
Speaker 3: floor from the second floor landing. Sounded like somebody was
Speaker 3: just dropping a stack of books.
Speaker 1: We had one in the house, like we were in
Speaker 1: the old house in Scotland, right, And there was a portrait,
Speaker 1: an old portrait of the woman who had owned the
Speaker 1: house a couple of hundred years ago, was up in
Speaker 1: the wall, right, and Meghan and I were standing in
Speaker 1: the room. We were talking about something.
Speaker 2: We're just being married talking. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: hell you talk.
Speaker 3: You know what it's like you've been married forever?
Speaker 2: Is it's like you just talk about everything now you
Speaker 2: know what it is? You remember that thing?
Speaker 1: Yeah, So we're just talking and there was a door
Speaker 1: that never opened, right, I just couldn't. It was always
Speaker 1: so stemming. You could open it, but it was very,
Speaker 1: very difficult jiggle the thing the handle. So we were
Speaker 1: looking at this portrait and I said, oh, she's still
Speaker 1: here somewhere, and Meghan was like, well, and she said,
Speaker 1: it's a joke. She said to the portrait, it's my
Speaker 1: house now, girl. And the door wiggled and then the
Speaker 1: door opened, and I was like, oh, no, way did
Speaker 1: that happen? She mex and she was like, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 3: What was inside the door?
Speaker 1: Nothing? We thought it was one of the kids coming through.
Speaker 1: There was nobody there, nothing, The door just opened. Just
Speaker 1: tell me about it right now. So Chris, yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: it's crazy.
Speaker 2: All right, we're completely out of time. I don't know
Speaker 2: if we.
Speaker 3: If we don't, are we supposed to be talking about joy?
Speaker 1: But if you don't know if you noticed, but I
Speaker 1: tried to get you to talk about everything.
Speaker 3: Throw your joy, but what's the joy? Oh? The things
Speaker 3: that bring me joy? Your faith? Your family? Oh? Got it? Okay?
Speaker 1: But you know what, if you want to define it
Speaker 1: in some way put but I'm very happy with that
Speaker 1: the button on it. I mean, what does define joy
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 3: Well, I mean I think it has to be just
Speaker 3: making people happy and trying to I mean for me anyways,
Speaker 3: I like to do that. I like to make people happy.
Speaker 3: I like to okay, if it's stuff that's not related
Speaker 3: to family, because obviously that that's like a given. I supposed,
Speaker 3: but I will always not Yeah, that's true, maybe not
Speaker 3: not always.
Speaker 1: Any The reason why I didn't like bring it up
Speaker 1: in a fashion and just ask you directly is because
Speaker 1: I think sometimes it's nice to talk to people and
Speaker 1: find out what makes them happy without saying what makes
Speaker 1: you happy?
Speaker 3: Right exactly? No, I get that, but I I would
Speaker 3: have to say that. I think music for me, and
Speaker 3: you know, because I came to it. I've always loved
Speaker 3: music and wish that I had started it younger, but
Speaker 3: it didn't happen that way. And when I finally did
Speaker 3: start making music twelve years ago, it was as if
Speaker 3: I could finally express myself in a creative way that
Speaker 3: felt so truthful because in acting I've I've done wonderful things, right,
Speaker 3: I'm very grateful for them, but in some ways I
Speaker 3: also exhausted the canon of warm, kind, nurturing wife, daughter, sister, mother, friend.
Speaker 1: It's also a collaborative platform that you know, you're working
Speaker 1: with a whole bunch of different people coming with a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different angles and agenda, right, whereas a
Speaker 1: musicianist like you drive the thing.
Speaker 3: A little bit more. And it was really it just
Speaker 3: brings me so much joy to do that. Like when
Speaker 3: I know that I have a writing session or I'm
Speaker 3: going to go in and record something, it just I'm
Speaker 3: so excited and that absolutely brings me joy. And you know, look,
Speaker 3: you're right. My faith is a huge driver of that,
Speaker 3: I think because I I have faith. You know, it
Speaker 3: gets tested. Everybody gets tested, you know, we have that happen.
Speaker 3: But I still feel like at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: I I have that.
Speaker 1: So there's a great line. Do you remember the movie
Speaker 1: Chariots of Fire? Yes, all right, so in charit's the fire.
Speaker 1: It's one of my favorite lines.
Speaker 3: Greek people would say Vangelis did the soundtrack. The Greek
Speaker 3: people would always if there's a Greek person somewhere in
Speaker 3: the vicinity of a conversation, a Greek will point that out.
Speaker 1: So in the Vangelis movie Charities of Fire, it's about
Speaker 1: a Scottish runner who is very religious man, and the
Speaker 1: story is that he won't run in the Olympics on
Speaker 1: a Sunday, right, and there's a big problem because that's
Speaker 1: when the final is and that's the story of the
Speaker 1: movie sort of. And his sister, who's even more religious
Speaker 1: than him, doesn't want them to run at all because
Speaker 1: they've got to go in their their missionary work in
Speaker 1: China is what needs them.
Speaker 2: And he says this line to her. I don't know
Speaker 2: who wrote the script.
Speaker 1: It is terrible, but there's a great line in the
Speaker 1: they're walking in the hill above Edinburgh and she's saying
Speaker 1: she's trying to persuade him not to go to the Olympics,
Speaker 1: and he says, I believe God made me for a
Speaker 1: purpose and that purpose is China. But when I run,
Speaker 1: I feel his pleasure.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so beautiful.
Speaker 2: And I think that can be your music for you beautiful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it feels like that, it really does, and and
Speaker 3: I can't it's it is, it's exactly that. It's exactly that.
Speaker 3: And now that we're talking about it. You're making me
Speaker 3: think about all sorts of other things because some of
Speaker 3: them tie together. Earlier, you asked me what gives me joy? Like,
Speaker 3: I love I'm a hobbyist, but I do watercolor painting, okay, perfect,
Speaker 3: and it is. It gives me so much joy because
Speaker 3: here's why I always wanted to try it, and I
Speaker 3: never could do it, and I was like, why am
Speaker 3: I not doing it? I had organized, you know, organizing
Speaker 3: all the vacations for the families when the kids were
Speaker 3: little and all of that, and they'd all be set
Speaker 3: up and very happy and doing all the things and
Speaker 3: having their activities, and I'd feel like, oh, what am
Speaker 3: I supposed to be doing now? And I thought, I
Speaker 3: need a hobby. I need something I can do like that.
Speaker 3: So I researched a painting class and I went one
Speaker 3: day a week for five years from September till June.
Speaker 3: And I knew nothing when I started this class. Nothing.
Speaker 3: And it was probably the thing that led me to
Speaker 3: find songwriting, because I thought, if you do something consistently enough,
Speaker 3: you don't get worse at it, You cannot get worse
Speaker 3: at it. You will improve. And I thought, yeah, with
Speaker 3: a matter of discipline and just consistency. This happens and
Speaker 3: I met the most amazing people, and they were people
Speaker 3: out of this incredible walk of life that you're like this.
Speaker 3: One guy used to run ABC Studios. Brandon's Daddard, incredible man.
Speaker 3: He passed away. Now, yes, such a lovely human being.
Speaker 3: He was an incredible artist, and you know you think, God,
Speaker 3: you know he didn't have that what you don't know
Speaker 3: about that exists within you that unless you sort of
Speaker 3: explore it and say, Okay, I'm going to try this,
Speaker 3: I'm going to do it like you did with flying
Speaker 3: a plane. I mean, you came out it because you
Speaker 3: were afraid of it. But there might be something you
Speaker 3: could do out of the joy of it, just because
Speaker 3: you're like, well, I don't know how to river dance,
Speaker 3: but I'm going to learn.
Speaker 1: It's like you know me, but I've seen to do yourself. Finally,
Speaker 1: I feel like I've been released. But it's funny because
Speaker 1: I think what it is is that when you're young,
Speaker 1: When a person is young, I think they judge themselves
Speaker 1: and they look at the results. The biggest challenge I
Speaker 1: have when I start writing anything, No anymore, But it
Speaker 1: used to be I would start saying, you know, once
Speaker 1: upon a time or whatever it was that I wrote, right,
Speaker 1: and then by the third sentence I was constructing my
Speaker 1: thank you speech.
Speaker 3: Like, no, were you funny as a kid? Yeah?
Speaker 2: I think I probably, yeah, liked you.
Speaker 3: You knew that you could make people laugh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I knew i'd better or they yet me,
Speaker 1: so that it was kind of like not so much
Speaker 1: my family, but but in the society I grew up
Speaker 1: and yeah, paid to be funny, yeah right, or something right,
Speaker 1: you know, or just keep your hand down right.
Speaker 3: It was did you ever do anything different? As just
Speaker 3: like something that you said, I really want to learn
Speaker 3: how to do this, not the flying thing, but a
Speaker 3: creative endeavor, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was it?
Speaker 1: And it was for me it was stand up really yeah,
Speaker 1: because because stand up comedy was there was you know
Speaker 1: Billy Conley, Yeah, of course. So Billy's twenty years old
Speaker 1: than me. So when I was ten years old, Billy
Speaker 1: was thirty years old. She was just coming to prominence
Speaker 1: in Scotland and I had never seen anyone from my
Speaker 1: background do that. Right, It was unbelievable to me. This
Speaker 1: was like some I mean Americans did that, but not
Speaker 1: Scottish men from down the road. Billy's a very special
Speaker 1: human being, but he was Jackie Robinson for me.
Speaker 2: He opened the door and so.
Speaker 1: I that was what it was, and I thought, I'd
Speaker 1: like to be able to do that.
Speaker 3: Looks like a really cool thing to do.
Speaker 1: And you know, through one thing and another, in various endeavors,
Speaker 1: I ended up having a crack at it and it
Speaker 1: kind of worked out here and there, and that's what
Speaker 1: led me into it.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: But it was like it was like an instrument. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: That if you learn to play the guitar, you play
Speaker 1: in a band, you're playing, maybe you write a movie score,
Speaker 1: maybe you you know, work with other people, but what
Speaker 1: you really like to do is just play the guitar,
Speaker 1: play exactly. And that's what I love about doing it,
Speaker 1: is just playing.
Speaker 3: To be honest.
Speaker 1: I felt the same way about about Late Night too.
Speaker 1: Is that eventually I thought, you know what, the guy
Speaker 1: who got me into it said, you're a natural for this,
Speaker 1: and I said, you're crazy. I don't even pay any
Speaker 1: attention to this sort of stuff. And he said, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter, you're natural for me.
Speaker 2: Wow, and he was right.
Speaker 3: I was Wow. I just love those stories. I mean
Speaker 3: so we're only really limited by our own belief systems,
Speaker 3: or I think that's what we've heard as kids or teenagers,
Speaker 3: because I think it's not even the limitations we've put
Speaker 3: on ourselves. But sometimes you know a teacher or a
Speaker 3: parent or someone you admire saying something like, you can't dance,
Speaker 3: you're you know, even too long the time, or that
Speaker 3: what was that you just sang and you're oh my ear,
Speaker 3: And if you're a kid, you can hear that and
Speaker 3: be completely very crushed by it. So I think it's like,
Speaker 3: I think, it's never too late. You just got to
Speaker 3: keep know, creating, doing it.
Speaker 2: He was, but it's too late.
Speaker 3: That time is too late up until that point.
Speaker 1: Keep going, keep going, you keep going, keep going, keep
Speaker 1: anytime