WEBVTT - Rita Wilson 0:00:00.400 --> 0:00:03.600 My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of this podcast 0:00:03.960 --> 0:00:08.400 is joy. I talked to interest in people about what 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:15.440 brings them happiness. Meet Rita Wilson. She's a producer, she's 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:25.599 an actress, and she's a hell of a laugh. I 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:27.480 was just thinking on the way here today, I thought, 0:00:27.800 --> 0:00:29.400 because the traffic was bad, I know, you know, that 0:00:29.840 --> 0:00:31.600 was bad, and I was I was a little grumpy, 0:00:31.680 --> 0:00:33.560 and I thought, I'm a bit grumpy today. 0:00:33.600 --> 0:00:37.600 I'm a little I'm a man called great today. That 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:38.879 was such a great film. 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:40.520 Which one the man called Auto. 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:43.559 Oh yeah, I was a man called Craig. Then I 0:00:43.640 --> 0:00:46.360 was like, I was very cranky. Yeah, how did you 0:00:46.440 --> 0:00:46.800 find that? 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:52.080 Fortunately it came in a DVD packet through the Academy. 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:54.960 It was another movie. Then it was I saw the 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:55.960 Swedish film. 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.960 First, I think you got the script or something. 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:02.360 No, we developed the script, but I found it through 0:01:02.360 --> 0:01:04.640 the Swedish movie. And then I realized there was a 0:01:04.640 --> 0:01:07.600 book to it, so immediately tried to get the rights 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.600 to the book, which we were able to do, and 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:12.520 then got a great team together. 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:13.880 I love that. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:15.080 Movie really good. 0:01:15.200 --> 0:01:16.240 I love directed that movie. 0:01:16.280 --> 0:01:19.560 You directed the movie right, produced it okay, which, as 0:01:19.640 --> 0:01:22.520 everybody knows, if you're really into a business show, you 0:01:22.600 --> 0:01:23.559 really did the job. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:27.920 You know what. I can be unequivocally honest about that 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:29.120 and say, yes's. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.759 True because the only one time I directed a movie 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:33.640 and I didn't produce it. 0:01:33.680 --> 0:01:35.319 I've only even like three or something, but. 0:01:35.760 --> 0:01:38.040 I directed a movie and I was like, this is 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:41.039 everybody's telling me stuff and they'n getting my way. Now 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:42.640 I realized the people that were getting my way with 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.120 the producers, and I'm much happier being the producer than 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:47.000 being the directors. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:49.080 Yes, it's true. 0:01:49.200 --> 0:01:51.400 So let me ask you, because there was I think 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:52.120 I wanted. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.000 To ask you about, which is You're the only person 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:58.440 I know. Now I'll preface this by saying, I have 0:01:58.560 --> 0:02:06.400 become fascinatedly with pre Roman Church Christianity. Oh just fascinated 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:10.560 by it everything I can about it. I've become totally 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.520 obsessed with it, as is my one. And you're the 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:16.320 only person I know who I think is in the 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:17.359 Greek Orthodox Church? 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:17.560 Right? 0:02:18.040 --> 0:02:20.679 Which is the split? Now? 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:23.000 You tell me, you tell me what's the difference between 0:02:23.440 --> 0:02:24.480 if you can and now I'm not. 0:02:24.480 --> 0:02:28.560 I don't want to for theological, but I know that 0:02:28.880 --> 0:02:34.120 this split happened round about then you can't. 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:37.480 I'm so bad at history, really am. But I will 0:02:37.480 --> 0:02:42.080 tell you what I believe is what I understand to 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:47.639 be some of the differences. Right. And in Greek Orthodoxy, 0:02:47.840 --> 0:02:52.120 which was the older religion, right, the Byzantine exactly was 0:02:52.200 --> 0:02:59.480 before Catholicism, before the schism. What happened in the schism, 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.680 I think is that the Catholics wanted to form a 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:10.400 different form of Christianity. And what Greek Orthodox don't have 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:14.360 is a pope, so we don't have a person that 0:03:14.600 --> 0:03:20.120 we say this, you're the top guy and everybody you know, 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:21.400 you talk directly. 0:03:21.040 --> 0:03:23.840 To God, which the Christians didn't. 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:30.840 Have, right, And so I think that's one of the differences. Secondly, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:36.000 this is my own observation, having a lot of Catholic 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:38.560 friends and going to a lot of Catholic churches in 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:43.880 my youth, is in the Greek Orthodox Church, we don't 0:03:44.360 --> 0:03:48.360 really focus so much on the crucifixion as we do 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:54.320 the resurrection. And I think that's interesting because if you 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:58.160 walk into a Greek Orthodox cathedral or church, you often 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:04.680 will see pictures of Christ carrying the cross on his back, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:09.600 or you will see pictures of him with the disciples 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.560 or the apostles. There is always a story told of 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:17.800 the life of Jesus in the church, and there you 0:04:17.839 --> 0:04:22.760 will find one picture of him on the cross being crucified. 0:04:22.400 --> 0:04:24.120 So it's part of the story, is not like. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:26.480 Yeah, which I think is just I don't know if 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:29.840 that's my own observation or if that there's intention to that. 0:04:30.000 --> 0:04:32.000 You know what I noticed when I was in Italy 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:33.560 a couple of years ago. 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:35.880 I go there a lot because I love it, Yeah, 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:39.839 and I noticed that the beautiful artwork, you know, in 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:43.159 the Vatican or in the bigger Catholic churches in Italy, 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:48.640 the very impressive artwork is not mirrored in the rural churches, 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:54.359 and you can see some really crap pictures. Like I 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:57.239 was like the church and I was like, what's that. Listen, 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:00.120 that's this is the crucifixion of our Lord Jesus. So 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.640 I'm like, that to me looks like a bare claiming 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:03.200 of fans. 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:06.480 It doesn't look anything. 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:10.200 And I love the idea that there's you know, valiant 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.200 efforts by people who are not as talented to make 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:16.360 because of course great artist, just because they're you know, 0:05:16.760 --> 0:05:19.360 depicting the crucifationion or the resurrection. 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.080 But here's the thing, here's being well, there's also one 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.680 other thing in the church. In our church, Greek Orthodoxy, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:29.880 priests can marry a priest and they can have children. 0:05:30.800 --> 0:05:34.120 And I think this is important, especially if you're going 0:05:34.200 --> 0:05:37.919 to talk to someone about your marriage. How does someone 0:05:38.040 --> 0:05:41.680 know what you know a marriage is like if they've 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:47.640 never experienced having a relationship with someone. And I believe 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:52.160 that if you are a priest, if you are married 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.080 and then become a priest, it's fine that you're married, right, 0:05:56.160 --> 0:06:01.120 but if you become a priest, you then cannot get married. 0:06:00.839 --> 0:06:02.920 After the fact is that in the Catholic Church. 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.040 In the Catholic Church, priests can't. 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:05.880 Marry, can't marry at all. 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:08.160 But that was only for that was from the Second 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:10.719 Vatican Council or something or seven hundred. That was because 0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:16.160 of priests were leaving their you know, their inheritance to 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:20.240 their children, and the church wanted it. So it was 0:06:20.400 --> 0:06:24.520 it was not really know when celibacy I mean as 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:28.359 a as a spiritual aesthetic. I goes back to Buddhist 0:06:28.440 --> 0:06:32.520 esthetics and pre Roman Christianity. Because I've become fascinated about 0:06:32.520 --> 0:06:34.600 it because. 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:36.120 I think someone I think of someone at the door 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:37.360 with coffee. Actually, hold on. 0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.000 It's the priests. They're coming together. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:49.479 Hey, wait a minute of the thank. 0:06:48.040 --> 0:06:49.239 You that's so great. 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:51.880 So there's this guy I've become fascinated by. 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:53.479 His name is And I want to know why you 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.560 became fascinated with the Greek Orthodox Church. 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.479 Well, it's not so much the Greek Orthodox, but I 0:06:59.520 --> 0:07:02.600 don't know about the Green. I've been surrounded by Catholicism 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:04.520 my whole. I'm not a Catholic, but I grew up 0:07:04.600 --> 0:07:06.599 in Scotland. There's a lot of Catholics around, and I 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.600 have friends who were Catholics, and so it wasn't mysterious 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:11.960 to me. But I didn't really have much contact with 0:07:12.000 --> 0:07:15.680 anyone who was in Greek Orthodoxy. And as I was 0:07:15.800 --> 0:07:21.160 reading about the it really I became fascinated by it 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:27.080 because of being sober. Oh, and sobriety was something that 0:07:27.200 --> 0:07:30.000 they were interested in. It's not part of anything I do, 0:07:30.080 --> 0:07:33.680 but I was, you know, being sober in terms of 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:37.640 a sober mind and a sober soul. In sobriety not 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:43.800 just the absence of whatever ales are, but actual sober 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:47.280 thought is something that they talk about the early and 0:07:47.320 --> 0:07:51.440 I became fascinated by the desert Fathers. And in particular 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:55.040 someone who was I believe connected to the Greek Orthodox 0:07:55.160 --> 0:07:58.760 or is celebrated in the Greek Orthodox Church, is Evagrius 0:07:58.800 --> 0:07:59.400 of Pontus. 0:07:59.400 --> 0:08:00.600 Have you heard of now? 0:08:00.960 --> 0:08:05.040 He's fascinating figure. He was a theologian, he was a 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.240 desert father, so it was his pre Roman Christianity and 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.840 these aesthetics they go out and it kind of was 0:08:10.960 --> 0:08:15.280 like it really it's a mirror of Christ's forty days 0:08:15.280 --> 0:08:17.360 in the wilderness. And they lived that, but they lived 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:19.880 there all the time. Saint Anthony lived there, you know, 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:24.400 and all that and what it became. Vagrius was a theologian. 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:27.880 Pontus I think was like Northern Turkey or something. 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:28.920 I mean, everything was all. 0:08:28.840 --> 0:08:32.839 Different then it right, and he came up with the 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:37.400 eight thoughts, eight demons that will separate you from the divine. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:38.520 Oh, I love this. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:41.400 It's fascinating. And the eight thoughts are and you recognize 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:42.720 them when I start saying them. 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.160 They are sloth, avarice, lust, you know. 0:08:47.280 --> 0:08:50.880 And suddenly it's the seven deadly sins, right, and the 0:08:50.920 --> 0:08:54.240 seven deadly sins com'st eight eight Well. 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:55.600 He put and this is what I love. 0:08:55.640 --> 0:09:00.000 I've edited out sadness and sloth were put in together. 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.200 Oh, and I thought, though, that kind of makes sense too. 0:09:03.360 --> 0:09:04.040 Wow. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:08.720 But they thought about demons in the way that we 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:13.640 talk about kind of psychosis or stuff or addictions or stuff. 0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:16.080 And I just became fascinated by that, and I started 0:09:16.080 --> 0:09:18.319 wandering into it. And I knew when you were coming 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:20.400 in today, I thought, oh, no, you are. I don't 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:22.040 know how connected you are to your church though, Are 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:23.160 you very very connect? 0:09:23.160 --> 0:09:23.280 Oh? 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:23.560 You are? 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:23.800 Oh? 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.640 Yeah, good. So I can ask you lots about it. 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:29.360 You can ask me lots about it, but I don't 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.400 know how informed i'll be about it. 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.760 All right, So to be fair, you're not speaking in 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.760 an official capacity for right, okay, right? 0:09:37.000 --> 0:09:39.800 Yes? Did you get married in the Greek church? In 0:09:39.880 --> 0:09:43.199 the church that I got married it's here in Hollywood, right, 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:47.920 Saint Sofia Cathedral. It's the church I was baptized in, that, 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:52.920 my sister got married in, that I baptized my nieces 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:58.160 in that I got married in, baptized my granddaughters in, 0:09:58.880 --> 0:10:01.880 and then also did the rituals from my mom and 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.679 my dad there. So it's kind of like it's been 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:06.800 all my life. 0:10:06.840 --> 0:10:11.160 They must get so much money out of you, but 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.360 we won't stay. That's a charge, didn't they? Does the docs? 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:19.280 Does it have the Eucharist? Does it have everything? 0:10:19.360 --> 0:10:21.960 All right? All that we have all the sacraments, we 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:25.120 have all of the h We don't have a wafer, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:29.480 but we actually do bread and wine all right? 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.000 And do you believe in transubstantiations? 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:35.280 Okay? Now, now this is where I'm probably going to 0:10:35.360 --> 0:10:38.360 get beat up by you know, I don't know critics, 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.920 but oh god, you know we still do the sipping 0:10:42.960 --> 0:10:47.400 of the wine, the communal cup. And during COVID, I 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:51.839 just stopped taking communion because I was that's okay, I 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:52.719 can't do this. 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:56.280 I just fou we're an early adopter of. 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:01.360 Exactly. You guys were like, I was like, that is fast. 0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.560 You guys are very good. We were the first counsel 0:11:03.600 --> 0:11:05.760 of COVID. What that was? That was? 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:08.120 I mean, you go to in Australia, right, Yes, I 0:11:08.160 --> 0:11:10.400 remember reading about it because I was like, oh my 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.840 god that first of all, I didn't even know that 0:11:12.920 --> 0:11:16.000 it was in Australia, and nobody knew if you were 0:11:16.000 --> 0:11:16.240 going to. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:20.839 Die from it, that nobody yes, but nobody knew. It 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:26.880 was all terrifying and strange. But I have enormous faith 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:33.120 in my Yeah. And at the same time, there is 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:37.800 science that says, maybe you don't want to be sipping 0:11:38.240 --> 0:11:40.920 off of a spoon during COVID. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.440 I think that's okay, And also that I don't know 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:48.320 what the ritual is in Greek Orthodoxy, and I'm not 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.240 entirely sure, but I don't think it has to be communal, 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.200 or maybe it does, because. 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.000 I was going to be like, it's just been the 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.719 way it's always been, right, Well, it was like that, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:03.720 you know. I literally have gone to church early for 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:07.960 communion on the most obscure like if it's during Holy Week, 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:12.720 the most obscure morning service that I can take communion 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.240 and I will get there and I will sit in 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.319 the front row and I will be the first person 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:21.280 up for communion to get to that before anybody that 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:23.160 first up and you step. 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:27.760 I think that's very wise, but it does kind of. 0:12:28.200 --> 0:12:31.120 Can I ask you something question, how long have you 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:31.760 been sober? 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.240 Thirty one years? And I'm happy to say. 0:12:35.000 --> 0:12:36.880 That, Oh my god, yeah, I. 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:38.280 Got sober when I was twenty nine. 0:12:38.920 --> 0:12:40.520 That's incredible. 0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:44.000 Yeah, it is it's a It's actually it's one of 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.720 the reasons why I become fascinated with religion, because the 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:49.040 longer I'm sober, the more I think that's kind of 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.360 a miracle, and it is a miracle, kind of I 0:12:52.360 --> 0:12:54.959 don't really know. I mean, it is kind of a miracle. 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.640 I don't know how it really happened, and I find 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:03.439 myself interested in these things completely curious. 0:13:03.800 --> 0:13:06.480 I do think it is one of the things that 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:09.120 I can only think of the word miracle when it 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.559 comes to that, because it's like I have seen people 0:13:13.679 --> 0:13:17.120 transform their lives, sure, and it's because of that, you know. 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:20.400 It's like one day you're this and the next day 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.880 you're somebody completely different. Well, it's and the day after 0:13:23.960 --> 0:13:24.600 and the day after. 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.320 The reason why I became fascinated by it is because 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:31.160 and being sober and trying to remain sober and trying 0:13:31.200 --> 0:13:35.600 to improve your sobriety. I guess is that I became 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.360 interested in what happened before. You know, in my case, 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:40.679 there was an organization which I wouldn't mention for the 0:13:40.720 --> 0:13:43.520 reason of the traditions, but it came into being in 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:46.600 the mid nineteen thirties and the warham before that. Of course, 0:13:46.640 --> 0:13:49.240 there were temperance movements and all that kind of thing 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.040 before that. But there was an amazing story about Do 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.960 you know the story about Roland Hazard. 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:54.600 No. 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.240 Roland Hazard was a drunk from a. 0:13:58.280 --> 0:14:01.560 Rich family in the north east of America in the 0:14:01.640 --> 0:14:04.400 nineteen I think it's been nineteen thirties. 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:07.160 I guess eli thirties. And he was a hopeless case. 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:09.920 And eventually the Hazard family, because they had a lot 0:14:09.920 --> 0:14:12.800 of money, sent him to be treated by Carl Jung. 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:15.520 That's a different kind of rehabit. 0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:18.400 It's crazy, right, So they sent him to Roland has 0:14:18.440 --> 0:14:21.400 to be treated by Carl Jung. But before that they 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.240 had asked Freud and Adler if they would take them, 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:24.760 and they were. 0:14:24.600 --> 0:14:26.560 Like that, he drunks. We there's nothing we can do. 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:27.680 I mean, they're hopeless. 0:14:27.800 --> 0:14:28.160 Wow. 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:32.640 So they sent Roland to Carl Young. Roland Hazard works 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:36.160 for a year with Carl Young, and Carl Jung says, 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.360 I think I think you're good to go. I don't 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:39.360 know enough about it. 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:40.120 Good luck. 0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:42.600 So Roland makes it as far he was in Switzerland, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.800 he gets as far as Paris, he gets drunk, and 0:14:45.840 --> 0:14:50.080 he goes back again. He says to Carl Jung. I 0:14:50.080 --> 0:14:51.920 don't know what to do. Am I going to And 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:53.360 Carl Jung says, I think you're going to die. I 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.080 don't think there's what I can do. And he said 0:14:56.080 --> 0:14:58.320 there's nothing. And Carl Jung said, well, look, once in 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:04.760 a while, Saint Paul on the road to Damascus, a 0:15:04.800 --> 0:15:09.080 person has a religious experience ignacious of Loyola or you know, 0:15:09.200 --> 0:15:13.960 something like that, and they a profound spiritual change that 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:18.480 so affects their psyche that they can stay sober. But 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:20.600 unless you get that, I don't know how it's going 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:23.600 to happen. And so what Roland hazard? He comes back 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.160 to America, He joins the Oxford Group. The Oxford Group 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:30.080 morph into the organization that you know talking about, and 0:15:30.800 --> 0:15:34.880 they start to try and recreate Bill Wilson, who founded 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.600 Alcoholics Anonymous, starts to try and recreate through a series 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:43.760 of steps, a profound psychic change that mimics what was 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:48.400 a religious experience before that in order to alter the 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.440 psyche of the alcoholics so much that they can stay sober. 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:53.920 Wow, isn't that fascinating? And he did that? 0:15:54.200 --> 0:16:05.320 Well, I think in my case, yes, the psychic change 0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:09.120 the cars because this is not really about me. But 0:16:09.120 --> 0:16:13.080 but I'm interested because you're a religious person, and you've 0:16:13.240 --> 0:16:16.120 always been a religious person. Has there ever been a 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.520 point where you've thought, I don't believe it. I don't 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:24.000 believe it. It's no, So you haven't had to make 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:28.720 that that tarn No, my mom. 0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:33.400 Was really the person who was the bringer of the faith, right, 0:16:33.640 --> 0:16:37.960 my dad, he must have Chris made it or converted 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:41.480 before he married. My mom converted because chrismation is if 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:45.720 you are already baptized in a religion, but you're going 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:49.000 to get married in the Greek Orthodox Church, right, or 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.520 not married because you can. You can get married if 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.040 you're a Christian. You don't have to be Greek Orthodox 0:16:55.080 --> 0:16:57.200 to get married in the church. Chris maasan is if 0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:01.040 you want to convert from let's say Catholicism to Greek Orthodoxy. 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.960 So that's kind of slightly different than was your dad 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.640 a Christian? So my dad must have converted in order 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.560 to get married in the church. But after he died, 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:16.920 I did a TV show called Who Do you Think 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:20.320 You Are? The Genealogy Show, and we went back to 0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:27.520 his village and everyone everyone was Muslim. Oh okay everyone, 0:17:28.520 --> 0:17:34.040 And my dad always explained it this way. He said 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:36.639 that where he was from, he was born in Greece, 0:17:37.200 --> 0:17:42.359 and where he was from the area was always being 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:47.760 occupied by some people, and for many many years, obviously 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:52.199 it was the Ottoman Empire. And during that time, my 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:57.280 dad said that many years back, they were Christians, and 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:01.240 during the Ottoman Empire they were sort of told that 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:06.000 they had to change their religion, convert to Islam, and 0:18:06.080 --> 0:18:10.440 also to change their names to sound more Islamic. Wow. 0:18:10.680 --> 0:18:15.679 So I think that with Wilson because that was the 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:18.240 street we lived on when my dad became a citizen 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:21.600 of the United States. You like, that's just is that why? 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:25.360 You know, that's not the reason why the ball is Wilson, 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.119 And I think that it is. 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:32.119 Yes, I mean I feel like I just learned really 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:37.240 profound No, because there is the name of the volleyball 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:41.560 is well, there's there's a Wilson brand, there's a Spaulding 0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:42.360 and there's a light. 0:18:45.880 --> 0:18:46.080 Yeah. 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:48.200 I think that's lovely. 0:18:48.680 --> 0:18:53.040 But it's just like, I feel like I'm weirdly excited 0:18:53.200 --> 0:18:54.000 by that. 0:18:54.000 --> 0:18:55.480 There's something very human about it. 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:56.639 And I think that's great. 0:18:57.440 --> 0:18:59.879 It's great. It's great, it is great. So that was 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:03.600 and then you know, I met so many of my 0:19:03.680 --> 0:19:07.760 relatives who are Muslim, and it was just so interesting 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.880 to me because my dad never really talked about it. 0:19:11.960 --> 0:19:14.120 He didn't, you know. There was a lot of things 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:17.080 I found out about my dad then, you know, after 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.640 he passed away, was well, your. 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.399 Dad was an immigrant, and was your mom an immigrant too. 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:26.239 My mom was actually born in New York, right, and 0:19:26.280 --> 0:19:31.159 then raised in a little tiny village She's Greek, on 0:19:31.240 --> 0:19:34.520 the border of Albania and Greece. And when the war 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:37.399 broke out, well, first they went there when she was 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:42.360 four years old and her father died and so her 0:19:42.400 --> 0:19:46.639 mom my yeah, yeah, grandmother was left with four kids. 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:48.840 And the relatives in New York said, what are you 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:52.000 going to do a widow with four children in New York. 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:54.440 Stay in the village and we'll send money back to you, 0:19:54.960 --> 0:19:59.400 because my grandfather had a business in New York, and 0:19:59.520 --> 0:20:02.639 so they stayed, and over the years, I think money 0:20:02.680 --> 0:20:06.600 stopped being sent, and then around the time of the 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.960 end of the war and also the beginning of the 0:20:10.000 --> 0:20:14.280 civil unrest in Greece, they knew it was time to 0:20:14.280 --> 0:20:16.959 get out, and so they couldn't just walk the border. 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.680 Even though my mom was an American citizen. So they 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:25.920 had to escape and climb over these mountains and make 0:20:25.960 --> 0:20:30.560 their way onto the Greece side of the border, and 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.640 then eventually made their way to Athens, renewed their passports, 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:37.800 and then took a ship over to And my dad 0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.800 has an amazing story too. My dad's story is that 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:45.160 he I didn't know any of this until I did 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:45.760 that show. 0:20:46.080 --> 0:20:47.880 So you, as a kid, you don't know this about 0:20:48.080 --> 0:20:48.960 your mother and father. 0:20:49.280 --> 0:20:51.920 I knew this about my mother, I did not know. 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:56.520 I knew that my father was in a labor camp, 0:20:57.359 --> 0:21:02.040 but I did not know there was an earlier part 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:06.399 of the story, which was he was in the army, 0:21:06.480 --> 0:21:10.399 the Bulgarian army, and while he was at the Bulgarian army, 0:21:11.440 --> 0:21:16.560 he saw Seltzer bottles right right from somewhere and he 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:20.040 took the twelve There were twelve Seltzer bottles, and he 0:21:20.080 --> 0:21:23.399 took them. And knowing what I know about my dad, 0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:27.040 he only did things for other people, so I thought 0:21:27.200 --> 0:21:30.080 he must have had a reason for doing this. And 0:21:30.200 --> 0:21:35.479 my grandfather, he was a hunter, and he had a 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:40.800 hunting lodge, let's call it small lodge in the mountains 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.439 in the Rhodope mountains, of Bulgaria, and I think he 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.440 must have thought, oh, my dad could use these bottles 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.000 for when he's out on a hunting trip. Anyways, he 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.639 was arrested, he was court martialed, and he was sentenced 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:59.000 to a prison for taking anti pro three years, Yes, 0:21:59.080 --> 0:21:59.720 three years. 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.119 In prison for taking an empty bottle. 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:04.520 Yes, exactly. They were trying to make an example of him. 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:08.120