1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,800
Speaker 1: If you're not just developing great starting pictures, you have

2
00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: to go either trade for it or pay for it.

3
00:00:07,800 --> 00:00:12,200
Speaker 2: Welcome into North Side Territory. Foul Territory Networks Cubs Podcast.

4
00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 2: I'm Sahad Sharma with my partner Patrick Mooney. We're your

5
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:19,320
Speaker 2: Cubs beat writers over at the Athletic Patrick, we have

6
00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:25,440
Speaker 2: a starting Picture edition for the Cubs. Early what was it,

7
00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,440
Speaker 2: Monday morning? I don't know what day were on now,

8
00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,560
Speaker 2: early Monday morning, it was reported that Matthew Boyd had

9
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:36,080
Speaker 2: signed with the Cubs two years, twenty nine million. I

10
00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:41,960
Speaker 2: think we kind of reported upper middle tiery, not upper

11
00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,160
Speaker 2: middle tier. This is more lower middle tiers.

12
00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:48,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, tier.

13
00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,000
Speaker 2: And this is certainly a quality piece in the sense

14
00:00:54,000 --> 00:00:58,640
Speaker 2: that Matthew Boyd has upside. Matthew Boyd doesn't have a

15
00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 2: ton of innings on his arm, but that is because

16
00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,319
Speaker 2: of injury. But when he has pitched, he's pitched well,

17
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:10,560
Speaker 2: especially lately. Uh, you know, I don't think this is

18
00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,160
Speaker 2: This is kind of when when we started talking about

19
00:01:14,160 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 2: free agency. These are the types of moves I kind

20
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:19,600
Speaker 2: of expected, right, like solid move, but nothing that's going

21
00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,720
Speaker 2: to blow the fan base away. Whether it's Matthew Boyd

22
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 2: or even a little better, more established pitcher like Nathan Valde.

23
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,680
Speaker 2: These types of names just aren't gonna blow the fan

24
00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,000
Speaker 2: base away, but they have a chance of paying off.

25
00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 2: And I think what I come away from this is

26
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:39,559
Speaker 2: the Cubs have a lot of starting pitching depth right now,

27
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,199
Speaker 2: even if they don't have even if they didn't add

28
00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 2: like innings certainty. Yeah. Look, I mean.

29
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:53,320
Speaker 1: Everyone loves Kyle Hendrix, but as a fifth starter this

30
00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:58,559
Speaker 1: past year, he was not reliable. He was not productive enough.

31
00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:02,760
Speaker 1: I think if you show up this area of your team,

32
00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,320
Speaker 1: you're going to get better. And that's the whole point,

33
00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:10,880
Speaker 1: right Like, it's not not a huge headliner. I think

34
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,760
Speaker 1: this is where kind of teams are going. And it's

35
00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:17,600
Speaker 1: kind of interesting that Scott Boris reps a bunch of

36
00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,600
Speaker 1: these pitchers who have all signed.

37
00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:22,720
Speaker 3: Kind of around Thanksgiving before the winter meetings.

38
00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:25,480
Speaker 1: And I think for teams this is kind of the

39
00:02:25,520 --> 00:02:27,480
Speaker 1: sweet spot, right of Like you don't have to go

40
00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:30,960
Speaker 1: too long in terms of years. You pay a little

41
00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:38,240
Speaker 1: more on an annual basis, but it doesn't kind of

42
00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:40,120
Speaker 1: crush your budget.

43
00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,760
Speaker 3: There's still some, you know, room to do other stuff.

44
00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:44,760
Speaker 3: And I think.

45
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:50,799
Speaker 1: You have Craig counsel running your team who is very

46
00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,480
Speaker 1: thoughtful about rest and recovery and how he deploys his

47
00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 1: out getters. I was told Boyd is a fan of

48
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 1: council and that the Cubs did their usual sort of

49
00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:09,679
Speaker 1: sales pitch to him, you know, spring training in Arizona.

50
00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:14,040
Speaker 1: Playing in Chicago very attractive to him. And I was

51
00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,600
Speaker 1: actually there for his first game back in quite some

52
00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 1: time with the Guardians, and he.

53
00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,320
Speaker 3: Shut down the Cubs offense in Cleveland that night.

54
00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:27,280
Speaker 1: That was I think a kind of a rough three

55
00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:32,800
Speaker 1: game sweep in the middle of August. And yeah, I

56
00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 1: think I do like the idea of upside though, right, Like,

57
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,240
Speaker 1: there is some risks, some uncertainty to it, but I

58
00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 1: don't know, if this guy clicks, it could be a

59
00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 1: really interesting piece.

60
00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,880
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, you could be getting a guy on

61
00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,320
Speaker 2: a lake career upswing, right, I mean, it's like getting

62
00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 2: John Lackey before Uh where where did they sign him from?

63
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,840
Speaker 2: They signed him from Boston, So it would be those

64
00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:06,600
Speaker 2: years in Boston, right that, Like he had was it Cardinals.

65
00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:08,800
Speaker 3: Boston, Saint Louis, Chicago?

66
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,800
Speaker 2: I think? Okay, so that near the end of his career,

67
00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 2: but right after TJ. Is when he like kind of

68
00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,279
Speaker 2: had this renaissance John likey renaissance, right, so it would

69
00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:21,560
Speaker 2: be like this, it's before he gets super expensive. It's

70
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,479
Speaker 2: before I mean this is expensive right for maybe what

71
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:28,800
Speaker 2: was projected. But I think near the end of the season,

72
00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:31,880
Speaker 2: people I started reading more about like, oh wait, Matthew

73
00:04:31,880 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 2: Boyd's actually going to get a little bit more than

74
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,920
Speaker 2: what was expected. And uh, you know, I think people

75
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,240
Speaker 2: do see upside here. He's got two quality breaking balls.

76
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,720
Speaker 2: He doesn't throw hard. I saw someone post on Twitter,

77
00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:51,279
Speaker 2: I think Jamison dionn as the hardest average fastball in

78
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:53,720
Speaker 2: the rotation currently. If you put if it's a sad

79
00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:59,040
Speaker 2: as the fifth starter, Granted there's three lefties in there,

80
00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,880
Speaker 2: so automatically you're down a couple of ticks, right because

81
00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: the average left he throws h doesn't throw as hard

82
00:05:04,240 --> 00:05:07,680
Speaker 2: as average righty. Uh, but that's just I think that's

83
00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 2: interesting that Matthew Boyd's like a tick blow, like not

84
00:05:10,760 --> 00:05:13,440
Speaker 2: even a full tick book behind ty Own. They don't

85
00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:18,159
Speaker 2: have these overpowering starters at the moment. Uh. And but

86
00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,320
Speaker 2: he he gets out. He he does strike guys out.

87
00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,480
Speaker 2: At least recently he's been striking guys out. I wonder

88
00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 2: if you can get like two really quality years out

89
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,560
Speaker 2: of him. I think the deal has a mutual option.

90
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,040
Speaker 2: We'll see how this plays out. He's in his thirties,

91
00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 2: it's not like he's young and upcoming. But sometimes post injury,

92
00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:42,240
Speaker 2: when you really when you're fully healthy and you had

93
00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,400
Speaker 2: the major surgery, you have a couple of years of

94
00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,599
Speaker 2: a renaissance. We'll see if it's that or if he's

95
00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,760
Speaker 2: you know, it's snake bitten and continues to get injured

96
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:56,240
Speaker 2: and this is just a you know, a sunk costs. Well,

97
00:05:56,240 --> 00:05:59,159
Speaker 2: we'll see which direction it goes. I do think he

98
00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,880
Speaker 2: has some upside and and that this is a potentially

99
00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 2: impactful addition, Like he could certainly have the type of

100
00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:11,760
Speaker 2: season that James and Tyne had right. He could certainly

101
00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,560
Speaker 2: give them those types of quality innings, and I think

102
00:06:14,680 --> 00:06:18,000
Speaker 2: that's what they're looking for. I remember having a talk

103
00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,880
Speaker 2: with someone, uh maybe it was in October, about you know,

104
00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 2: the need for starting pitching, and I was like, how

105
00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 2: how much would you like to get someone that kind

106
00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,080
Speaker 2: of guarantees you one hundred and sixty innings? And he's like, yeah,

107
00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:35,520
Speaker 2: that that'd be great. It's it's hard to find that

108
00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,520
Speaker 2: that type of consistency and also quality. Like you just,

109
00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 2: it's not easy to get those guys at a reasonable cost.

110
00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:48,679
Speaker 2: Clearly they're being a little cautious with how aggressive they're

111
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,440
Speaker 2: they're they're going to be spending. But I do think

112
00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:57,080
Speaker 2: it's a good addition for that tier of pitcher, and uh,

113
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,560
Speaker 2: they needed someone to kind of solidify things. And like

114
00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,200
Speaker 2: you said, it's an upgrade over Kyle Hendricks. As much

115
00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,039
Speaker 2: as we respect Kyle Hendricks, just wasn't giving them enough.

116
00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:10,400
Speaker 2: And I think if he's healthy, it's an upgrade.

117
00:07:11,360 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 1: Boyd also comes with an excellent reputation as a clubhouse guy,

118
00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:21,200
Speaker 1: someone who I imagine would click with tie On and

119
00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: be willing to kind of mentor some of these younger pitchers.

120
00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 1: I mean, he was good enough to start in the ALCS,

121
00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,160
Speaker 1: which is interesting. I'm also curious, like, do we think

122
00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: he's gonna make thirty stars next year? Maybe not, but

123
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,520
Speaker 1: from that slot, can you get thirty out of Boyd?

124
00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,760
Speaker 1: And Ben Brown? And Hayden was an Esky Like, I

125
00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:51,720
Speaker 1: do think they're building a pretty deep and versatile staff.

126
00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:53,960
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll see, We'll see what they do with

127
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 1: the bullpen, right, like, well, we'll never know about the

128
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,280
Speaker 1: bullpen until maybe, like you know, July, but I think

129
00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,320
Speaker 1: you know, we saw the graphics we wrote it in

130
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,440
Speaker 1: our story, like that starting five you can roll out

131
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:14,600
Speaker 1: with another kind of five your next five at Iowa

132
00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:16,880
Speaker 1: or adjacent in the bullpen.

133
00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:19,160
Speaker 3: It looks pretty good.

134
00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,400
Speaker 1: And you know, Max Freed would have come with durability questions.

135
00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,920
Speaker 1: Corbin Burns we reported a while ago, was just not

136
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,840
Speaker 1: a pitcher, not a price point that they were willing

137
00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:41,280
Speaker 1: to pursue. They weren't in love with Blake Snell in

138
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 1: terms of some durability, consistency kind of concerns.

139
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 3: And like this is kind of the going rate.

140
00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,079
Speaker 1: Like if you're not just developing great starting pitches all

141
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,199
Speaker 1: the time on your own, you have to.

142
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,520
Speaker 3: Go either trade for it or pay for it.

143
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:03,400
Speaker 1: And I think we've seen, as we wrote, you know this,

144
00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,040
Speaker 1: this market is kind of heating up. And they didn't

145
00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,960
Speaker 1: wait around until the middle of January to do something about.

146
00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,959
Speaker 2: It, right, And and that code that brings about the

147
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:18,720
Speaker 2: next logical question that I think fans were almost immediately asking.

148
00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 2: I think I was wondering when when I woke up

149
00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,040
Speaker 2: and saw this news is this it for starting pitchers

150
00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:32,240
Speaker 2: for the cups. Uh. You know, I asked around and

151
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 2: it doesn't seem like they're going to be super aggressive

152
00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:39,600
Speaker 2: when it comes to adding specifically another starting pitcher. They

153
00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:42,680
Speaker 2: have depth, you name you name those names. There's also

154
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 2: Brandon Bird Cell, Cad Horton. We're probably missing someone, right,

155
00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:52,600
Speaker 2: Jordan Wick's, Jordan Wick's, Ben Brown, Hayden wisen Eski, Uh,

156
00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,320
Speaker 2: Brandon bird Cell, Cad Horton. Uh, there's there's probably one more.

157
00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,240
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, if you if you want to

158
00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:04,400
Speaker 2: include Na Pearson as a potential starter, Uh, we'll see

159
00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,840
Speaker 2: with how they build him up in the off season.

160
00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:10,520
Speaker 2: So you know, this is they they like their depth.

161
00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:14,920
Speaker 2: It's a strength, right. So I don't think they're gonna

162
00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,360
Speaker 2: go crazy and go after that upper middle class tier

163
00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,600
Speaker 2: that we were talking about of Vivaldi and uh, you

164
00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,400
Speaker 2: know Kikuchi's now gone. Who was the other name? I mean,

165
00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,120
Speaker 2: Jack Flaherty is probably like the upper class right now.

166
00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:30,880
Speaker 2: The way this market is playing out, it's going to

167
00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:34,600
Speaker 2: be like it's going to be hard to add someone

168
00:10:34,640 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 2: by a free agency. That's a certainty to the to

169
00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:43,560
Speaker 2: the rotation, right. But I do think they are looking

170
00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:47,080
Speaker 2: to improve the team in any way that they can.

171
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:50,160
Speaker 2: So is the focus starting pitching? I don't. I don't

172
00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:53,559
Speaker 2: think so. I don't think that's where there's zero zeroing

173
00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 2: in on. I do think that we could see another

174
00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,959
Speaker 2: starting pitcher added if if the opportunity right, and that

175
00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:06,440
Speaker 2: there it sounds like they are aggressively exploring ways to

176
00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,560
Speaker 2: get better, but not just one avenue, not just like

177
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,959
Speaker 2: we have to add a starting pitcher and aggressive with that.

178
00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,400
Speaker 2: It's just they're being creative. They're thinking about different ways

179
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:22,200
Speaker 2: and they're finding there. They're exploring any avenue they.

180
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,080
Speaker 1: Can solving for wins as Yes, guy Craig Counsel would say,

181
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,439
Speaker 1: look forward to hearing.

182
00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,080
Speaker 3: His thoughts at the Winter meetings next week.

183
00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:34,559
Speaker 2: But I guess that Matthew Boyd is an out getter.

184
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:35,520
Speaker 3: Yes exactly.

185
00:11:35,720 --> 00:11:39,480
Speaker 1: I mean I think when you talk about avenues, the

186
00:11:39,520 --> 00:11:44,280
Speaker 1: trade market has to be one of those possibilities, right, Yeah.

187
00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:48,400
Speaker 2: I think so, And we can just get to, you know,

188
00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,679
Speaker 2: the next question, which is what's next? And I think

189
00:11:54,520 --> 00:11:58,760
Speaker 2: I think trade avenues are like something we're going to

190
00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:00,960
Speaker 2: have to dig into that We're going to hear a

191
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 2: lot of rumors about we said it right A trade

192
00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:07,480
Speaker 2: has to come this winter. It really feels like a

193
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,840
Speaker 2: trade winter. It happened last winter too, you know, like

194
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 2: that's that was probably one of the bigger moves, right.

195
00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:19,560
Speaker 2: I think we're looking at where we're getting ready to

196
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,760
Speaker 2: see a bigger trade. If there's a big move, if

197
00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:25,800
Speaker 2: there's a big addition, I think that's where it's coming from.

198
00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:30,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think trading Cody Bellinger is less of a

199
00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:36,599
Speaker 1: thought exercise now and more of an active possibility. Like

200
00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 1: I guess everything is sort of fifty right, it'll happen

201
00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:43,840
Speaker 1: or it doesn't. But I do think the more this

202
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 1: has gone on in terms of what we're hearing, what

203
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 1: our colleagues are hearing, what our competitors are hearing of.

204
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,760
Speaker 1: Just like so that they're looking to get rid of Bellinger,

205
00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,480
Speaker 1: but that's a huge chunk of financial flexs that I

206
00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,920
Speaker 1: think they'd like to get back in some way. The

207
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:07,520
Speaker 1: problem is, obviously, this is a front office that's under

208
00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:08,120
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure.

209
00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 3: Next year they have to win.

210
00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 1: So you can't be getting back some a ball prospects

211
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,880
Speaker 1: and then hoping you hit all your free agent targets

212
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,720
Speaker 1: with that leftover money. Who's gonna absorb all that money?

213
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:27,480
Speaker 1: Or a significant portion of that money. That is also unclear.

214
00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:29,920
Speaker 1: Of course, the Yankees have had interest in Belager in

215
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,679
Speaker 1: the past. I think we could look to some of

216
00:13:32,679 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 1: the teams that don't sign Juan Soto, and some of

217
00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,320
Speaker 1: them have shown interest in Bellinger in the past, such

218
00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:44,240
Speaker 1: as the Toronto Blue Jays. But do you think last

219
00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:49,240
Speaker 1: winter is instructive? You're right Sahadev in terms of who

220
00:13:49,280 --> 00:13:55,120
Speaker 1: saw the Michael Bush trade coming. The Paradist trade, while

221
00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,720
Speaker 1: did not work out exactly as the Cubs hoped, was

222
00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,880
Speaker 1: like a different sort of style of trading that we

223
00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,440
Speaker 1: had not seen in a while, even Pearson Pierson exactly.

224
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:07,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, so.

225
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,679
Speaker 1: There is kind of a track record now of what

226
00:14:11,760 --> 00:14:16,160
Speaker 1: they could look to do. And I do think since

227
00:14:16,200 --> 00:14:19,360
Speaker 1: the budget is not unlimited, because they have stocked up

228
00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:22,000
Speaker 1: on a lot of guys like Boyd, kind of giving

229
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:27,320
Speaker 1: them more annually and maybe an extra year, but not

230
00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,760
Speaker 1: super long term or not absolute top of the market,

231
00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,000
Speaker 1: all those pieces have now stacked up to where I

232
00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,240
Speaker 1: think we were talking about this off the air. I

233
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,800
Speaker 1: think maybe Fangrafts or Roster Resource has them around what

234
00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:42,880
Speaker 1: like maybe two hundred million dollars in commitments for next year.

235
00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:45,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I believe. I just saw two hundred and one

236
00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,840
Speaker 2: million according to Roster Resource for that's your luxury tax.

237
00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,920
Speaker 2: So that would be forty million under the luxury tax threshold.

238
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,680
Speaker 2: You don't go into the season. So let's say let's

239
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,920
Speaker 2: say that want to be under this year. We're not

240
00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:04,960
Speaker 2: certain about that, right, that's just kind of where we're at.

241
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,080
Speaker 2: That's probably a good bet, right, Yeah, Yeah, So let's

242
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:16,160
Speaker 2: say that, Let's say they're aiming for two forty. That's

243
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,680
Speaker 2: not where they're going to start the season. They don't

244
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 2: want to do that. They want to have some cushion

245
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:26,480
Speaker 2: to add at the deadline if they're competitive, and so

246
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 2: so that puts them this is what we were talking

247
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:32,400
Speaker 2: about a few episodes ago. Why why do they need

248
00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:35,760
Speaker 2: to move Cody Bellinger? They have all this room. They

249
00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,160
Speaker 2: have thirty million left right now, right essentially, let's say

250
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,320
Speaker 2: if they want to keep like a ten million dollar

251
00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,320
Speaker 2: cushion to add at the deadline, let's say thirty five million.

252
00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,160
Speaker 2: That's why, like they'd be done. Then if they signed

253
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,320
Speaker 2: Corbyn Burns, they'd be over. If they signed Juan Soto. Again,

254
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,800
Speaker 2: I'm not saying that they should have these restrictions. I'm

255
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,000
Speaker 2: not saying like good for them that they that they're

256
00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:59,480
Speaker 2: being smart with their money. I'm just saying these are

257
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,080
Speaker 2: the reaction that they face, that this is what ownership

258
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,600
Speaker 2: is saying, and this is what they're working with. So

259
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,480
Speaker 2: it goes quickly, you know, even like someone like Anthony

260
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,840
Speaker 2: Santander like that would take up majority of your budget

261
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 2: right now, right So so they have to they have

262
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,360
Speaker 2: to consider that, and they have to figure out ways

263
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,840
Speaker 2: to be more flexible and maybe they like I think

264
00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:26,600
Speaker 2: this is where trades outside of Cody Bellinger come into play.

265
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: They are they looking to move someone like Jordan Wicks aggressively?

266
00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,960
Speaker 2: I don't think so. But if they can find a

267
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,920
Speaker 2: deal where they get someone that's better that you know,

268
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,000
Speaker 2: wins in wins out right, Like how many conversations that

269
00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:43,760
Speaker 2: we had with like front office people where it's like

270
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:47,000
Speaker 2: do you like this guy? Well, is he an upgrade over?

271
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,400
Speaker 2: Like if he's two point seven wins and our guy

272
00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:53,360
Speaker 2: is two point two wins, we like this guy, you know.

273
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:56,880
Speaker 2: You know, it's it's very it's a very simple process

274
00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,080
Speaker 2: in their minds sometimes when it comes to that, like

275
00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,360
Speaker 2: what does he bring more value to our team? Like

276
00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:04,120
Speaker 2: how much are you paying him? And how many wins

277
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: does he bring you? Like these are these are the

278
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,199
Speaker 2: things that go through their minds. It's not always like,

279
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:14,040
Speaker 2: well we need position X. We It's no like, how

280
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:17,080
Speaker 2: do we upgrade in any area possible? And I think

281
00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:20,840
Speaker 2: that's where what they're looking at right right now, a

282
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:24,000
Speaker 2: more holistic approach to team building, and and I think

283
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,800
Speaker 2: that I think it's frustrating sometimes to hear that, because

284
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,120
Speaker 2: you want to hear sexy names and big free agents.

285
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 2: But I think the reality is, like if they end

286
00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:36,000
Speaker 2: up winning games and find a way to do that,

287
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:39,919
Speaker 2: then then fans won't complain. So you know, get your

288
00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:42,360
Speaker 2: complaining out in the offseason if it leads to two

289
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,080
Speaker 2: wins in the regular season. I guess, right, yeah, I

290
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 2: mean I'm also wondering too, like.

291
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:55,720
Speaker 1: Cody Bellinger is not a superstar, you know, certainly not

292
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:59,479
Speaker 1: this budding superstar he was at the beginning of his career.

293
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:06,560
Speaker 1: But it's like a good player, right, and it's probably

294
00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,560
Speaker 1: only for one year and like, I don't know, one

295
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,919
Speaker 1: year of that and then kind of pivoting off of

296
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,960
Speaker 1: that versus five years for Santander, I don't know what

297
00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,159
Speaker 1: six years like the.

298
00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:26,800
Speaker 3: To get an impactful.

299
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,480
Speaker 1: Middle of the order player who can play up the

300
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:36,960
Speaker 1: middle and play various positions around the field, It's hard

301
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,760
Speaker 1: to find, and it usually costs you a ton if

302
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:47,600
Speaker 1: you don't develop it yourself, And so I have a

303
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,080
Speaker 1: hard time kind of in theory. I get it, sure,

304
00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:55,000
Speaker 1: trade Cody Bellinger and do all these amazing things, but

305
00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:59,359
Speaker 1: like then the reality of the season hits, and someone's

306
00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:05,160
Speaker 1: oblique and someone's hamstring hurts, and this player isn't doing

307
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:07,520
Speaker 1: what he did last year. Like, I think it's a

308
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:13,360
Speaker 1: nice insurance policy to have. But you're right about the

309
00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:16,080
Speaker 1: kind of range of trades we're talking about here when

310
00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,720
Speaker 1: you have a front office doesn't think anyone's untouchable, certainly

311
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: limited by all the no trade clauses they gave out.

312
00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:27,800
Speaker 1: But I don't know that cluster of prospects kind of

313
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:32,880
Speaker 1: around the Triple A Iowa border should probably get rid

314
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:35,200
Speaker 1: of some of those, right, he'd probably turn those in

315
00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 1: for major league pieces, and you could probably lump Wix

316
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 1: in that group as well.

317
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I think you know

318
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:49,800
Speaker 2: you don't want to dump anyone like James Toronto's is

319
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 2: a good prospect, does he have a path to the

320
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:56,520
Speaker 2: major leagues with the cups, right, So you have to

321
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 2: balance those two things of he's really good and talented

322
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:03,280
Speaker 2: and some upside and it seems like he's developing in

323
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: various areas in a positive fashion, and you don't want

324
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,400
Speaker 2: to but do you rarely see him as a future

325
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,879
Speaker 2: piece to this team. But that doesn't mean you just

326
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,760
Speaker 2: give him away, Like you have to find the right

327
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,040
Speaker 2: trade and make sure you're getting good value for him.

328
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: You don't want to undervalue your own prospects. And then suddenly,

329
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:24,720
Speaker 2: now you know, five years down the line, it's it's

330
00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:28,400
Speaker 2: people are complaining that you traded this guy. Right, So

331
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:30,520
Speaker 2: we would never do that.

332
00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:32,600
Speaker 3: We would never bring up a trade that went wrong.

333
00:20:35,160 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 2: So I'm curious to see how Like I think, the

334
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:41,639
Speaker 2: further the more we talk to people, the more we

335
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 2: get closer to the winter meetings, the more we get

336
00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:48,880
Speaker 2: closer to Jan Soto signing, ah, the more we're hearing

337
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:53,040
Speaker 2: things about Cody Bellinger, Right, And I agree with you. You

338
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,159
Speaker 2: don't just move, like what what are the following moves?

339
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 2: What else happens? How do you build? What does this

340
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: roster look like? And we're talking after the you know,

341
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 2: as we're entering spring training, whatever it may be, how

342
00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:09,280
Speaker 2: different does this roster look? And what what what are

343
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:14,080
Speaker 2: the dominoes that fell after Cody Bellinger was moved? If

344
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,920
Speaker 2: this happens, if he's moved, what what happens after that?

345
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 2: I think those are the questions you and I are

346
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: going to like be faced with and kind of are

347
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 2: going to try and understand over the next ten days.

348
00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 2: We leave for the Winter Meetings in less than a week.

349
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:33,120
Speaker 2: Uh And I think that may be, at least from

350
00:21:33,119 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: our perspective from Cubs coverage, one of our biggest questions

351
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: that we need answers to right as far as like it,

352
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 2: it kind of sets up everything like if you if

353
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,959
Speaker 2: if you're moving him, and it seems like that's if

354
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 2: they're being aggressive about anything right now, that may be it.

355
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 2: Right once Wan Soto assigned, then like what's what's next?

356
00:21:56,160 --> 00:22:00,280
Speaker 2: How do you how do you improve the team? Because

357
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:03,440
Speaker 2: just getting rid of him certainly doesn't improve the team

358
00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:08,200
Speaker 2: right where we're talking about wins, adding wins, taking away wins, runs,

359
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:14,719
Speaker 2: all those things. Wins. Yeah. Yeah, So I literally had

360
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:16,679
Speaker 2: a conversation with someone about that and I was like,

361
00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 2: oh God, I don't want to have to describe it

362
00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:20,879
Speaker 2: like that, but I guess this is how it works.

363
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 2: So so I I do think that's that that is

364
00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,720
Speaker 2: the biggest domino, and it until we have clarity there,

365
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,320
Speaker 2: it's really hard to figure out what direction they go

366
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,920
Speaker 2: and and I'm curious to see how creative they can get,

367
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,200
Speaker 2: like what is what is this move? What is? Because

368
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 2: I want to I want to give them the benefit

369
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: of the doubt, not that they've earned it, but at

370
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:50,160
Speaker 2: least with the results on the field the last five years.

371
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,400
Speaker 2: But when you keep bringing it up and it keeps

372
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: reminding me, like, Cody Bellinger's a good player. Players get hurt,

373
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 2: He's versatile. Anybody gets hurt, he'd be like any of

374
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: that outfielders or Michael Bush or DH gets hurt. There's

375
00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,280
Speaker 2: Cody Bellinger in to help the team and improve the

376
00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,960
Speaker 2: team in some facets. Right, you don't, you don't take

377
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:13,160
Speaker 2: this huge downgrade? Now what now? What happens if he's

378
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,840
Speaker 2: if he's gone right and you're you're hit with injuries?

379
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: So I think it's a fascinating question and something that

380
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: that will hopefully get an answer to in the next month.

381
00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, our colleague Derek Lewandowski had me on his Pinstripes

382
00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,720
Speaker 1: Territory show to talk about Bellinger, and I forget.

383
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,920
Speaker 3: His exact phrasing.

384
00:23:34,119 --> 00:23:37,040
Speaker 1: I didn't totally steal his line, but he says, I'm like,

385
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I like good baseball players like, call

386
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 1: me crazy. He said something like that, and I thought

387
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:46,280
Speaker 1: that was a good way to think about it because

388
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,960
Speaker 1: part of it with the Yankees, you know, we don't

389
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: follow them every day, but watching the World Series, reading

390
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: the coverage, it was this idea of, you know, a

391
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,960
Speaker 1: lack of fundamentals breakdown in the field on the basis,

392
00:24:03,119 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: you know, an approach that was not that lacked certain

393
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:08,919
Speaker 1: situational awareness.

394
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:11,560
Speaker 3: How do you think Cody Belcher brings a lot of

395
00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 3: those things to the table.

396
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: Now.

397
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if that means it's worth thirty something

398
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: million dollars next season or not saying you give him

399
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,200
Speaker 1: a long term mega deal, But as a guy playing

400
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: for his next contract, I think it makes a lot

401
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,000
Speaker 1: of sense to have a guy like that who's well rounded,

402
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:39,640
Speaker 1: who's well liked, who's highly motivated, and has a ton

403
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:44,520
Speaker 1: of playoff experience. So whether it's Chicago, New York or

404
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:50,159
Speaker 1: somewhere else, I just feel like until he's traded or not,

405
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be something we're gonna be dealing

406
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: with kind of until we get to Mesa.

407
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 2: Right, and if it's New York, I mean that's the

408
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,480
Speaker 2: type of place where he feast offensively. If he's pulling

409
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:02,760
Speaker 2: the ball in the air, he's going to opt out

410
00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 2: of that contract. I feel like he's gonna have as

411
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,640
Speaker 2: long as he's healthy, like he'll he'll be fine, right, Sure,

412
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,119
Speaker 2: All right, Patrick, I think that's it for this episode.

413
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:19,679
Speaker 2: Let's make sure to let the sorry, let's we'll be

414
00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: back later this week with a special guest, right we have,

415
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 2: We have a guest coming up on Thursday, I believe.

416
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Make sure to rate and

417
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 2: review and subscribe to the YouTube channel. We appreciate all

418
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: of you listening and subscribing to The Athletic, where Patrick

419
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,919
Speaker 2: and I will be covering the Cubs all off season

420
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,680
Speaker 2: long and trying to figure out what direction this team

421
00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: is going and what moves they're going to be making.

422
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 2: Thanks so much for listening. Everyone,