Speaker 1: Hi everybody. Jamie here. Hope everyone is well. So, as
Speaker 1: you know, we here at the Bottlecast are thrilled to
Speaker 1: bring you movie discussions every week and to continue to
Speaker 1: keep learning with you and learning from you. But we
Speaker 1: also often get questions about how to help and contribute
Speaker 1: outside of the content that our show covers. So I
Speaker 1: just wanted to take a second to quickly recommend seeking
Speaker 1: out projects in your community and getting involved, especially as
Speaker 1: we approach election season. Uh. We know that it is
Speaker 1: not safe for everyone to participate I r L in
Speaker 1: the middle of a pandemic, of course, but it is
Speaker 1: really all about finding ways that you're able and comfortable
Speaker 1: to participate. There's been a number of incredible mutual aid
Speaker 1: organizations that have developed and expanded in recent months. There's
Speaker 1: an increased need to assist in areas with increasing rates
Speaker 1: of people experience saying homelessness in the summer heat, Ongoing
Speaker 1: grocery delivery services for folks and seniors unable to get
Speaker 1: to the store amid the pandemic. There's local progressive candidates
Speaker 1: that you can help phone bake for from your own
Speaker 1: home if you're not comfortable leaving home, and on and
Speaker 1: on and on. It is a very stressful time and
Speaker 1: it can be difficult to find a place to start,
Speaker 1: but we encourage you to so talk with your friends,
Speaker 1: find mutual aid efforts in your area by checking out
Speaker 1: mutual aid hub dot org, and find where you fit.
Speaker 1: We're always here for support and we love you. So
Speaker 1: let's do this. Enjoy the show. On the dol Cast,
Speaker 1: the questions asked if movies have women in them, are
Speaker 1: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
Speaker 1: have individualism? The patriarchy zef invest start changing it with
Speaker 1: the beck Del Cast. Okay, Jamie, do you want to
Speaker 1: start this episode? I was going to, but then I
Speaker 1: couldn't remember a line from any of the songs? Do
Speaker 1: you remember any of the songs? They've been stuck in
Speaker 1: my head and it's very annoying. Um, Okay, I got
Speaker 1: I've got one. I got one on. This is gonna
Speaker 1: be good. On this episode, we are going into the
Speaker 1: into the no disrespect to Idina Menzel. They just make
Speaker 1: her belt so much, They make her belts so through
Speaker 1: so much plot in this movie. Truly, All Off doesn't
Speaker 1: make me laugh. But that see and what he just started,
Speaker 1: I'm there with you. I'm there with you. So this
Speaker 1: is hello, Welcome to the Bechtel Cast. Everyone. Um, this
Speaker 1: is our movie podcast, in which we examine film through
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens. Spoiler alert, most movies do not
Speaker 1: fare well. We took inspiration from the Bechtel Test and that,
Speaker 1: of course, is a media metric designed by queer cartoonist
Speaker 1: Alison Becktel that for our purposes, requires that two people
Speaker 1: of any marginalized gender who have names speak to each
Speaker 1: other about something other than a man. And as we
Speaker 1: as we just talked about in a Twitter exchange today,
Speaker 1: they should also both be on screen. In general, that
Speaker 1: is helpful. If they are on screen. Yes, if it's
Speaker 1: a disembodied voice, perhaps, um, maybe that doesn't count sometimes,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean it's a case to case, but generally,
Speaker 1: you know, it does seem like in most cases it's
Speaker 1: the least you could do and ties into the whole
Speaker 1: idea of visibility involves being visible. I bravely tread. Wow. Incredible,
Speaker 1: thank you. So today we are covering Frozen two. We
Speaker 1: have a wonderful guest with us. She is the founder
Speaker 1: of the A La test on tumbler. It's Ali Naughty. Hello,
Speaker 1: I welcome. How's it going good? How are you? Thank
Speaker 1: you so much for being here? Oh, thank you for
Speaker 1: inviting me. I think, uh, it's funny because you guys
Speaker 1: invited me based on my threat. I think on Twitter
Speaker 1: about pocahonas and I was like, you know what, I'd
Speaker 1: rather talk about something I enjoy. I don't enjoy pocon
Speaker 1: Frozen two, So what is what is your relationship with
Speaker 1: Frozen two, with the Frozen franchise all of that. So, um,
Speaker 1: I hated the first movie, which is hilarious. UM. I
Speaker 1: think it's because I was not in the target audience.
Speaker 1: You know, it certainly wasn't made for me. Um. But
Speaker 1: all of my friends really liked it. So I went
Speaker 1: and saw it and was like, really, this is what
Speaker 1: you guys were talking about. You know, it wasn't very impressed. UM.
Speaker 1: So I when I found out about a Frozen two,
Speaker 1: I was like, I don't know if it's going to
Speaker 1: be any good. And then the more information that came
Speaker 1: out about Frozen two, I'm like, oh, tell me more.
Speaker 1: So then UM, I saw it and I did not
Speaker 1: expect to like it as much as I did. It
Speaker 1: easily is probably one of my favorite Disney movies. Now
Speaker 1: it's like, Wow, I I can't wait to talk about
Speaker 1: it in this podcast because Wow, there's just so much
Speaker 1: to unpack, especially with an indigenous lens um that I
Speaker 1: don't think too many people have talked about. Yeah, not
Speaker 1: from what I found in any like articles written and
Speaker 1: things like that. So yeah, at best it's been it
Speaker 1: was like a passing reference in reviews, but nothing that
Speaker 1: was actually really examined. I don't know. It was kind
Speaker 1: of like surprisingly difficult for a movie that came out
Speaker 1: last year to find like solid written indigenous perspectives on
Speaker 1: this movie, right, And speaking of tell us about the
Speaker 1: Alt tests. So I came up with the alt test
Speaker 1: um when I was living overseas. So I lived in
Speaker 1: Finland for about two years from like sixteen to and
Speaker 1: around that time was when Standing Rock was happening, and um,
Speaker 1: I was so far away anyways, from my family and
Speaker 1: my friends and everything, and from any really indigenous Native
Speaker 1: American person, you know, because there are indigenous people in Finland,
Speaker 1: but you know, and I remember watching like the the
Speaker 1: live streams and everything that was going on in Standing
Speaker 1: Rock and feeling, you know, terrified that this could escalate
Speaker 1: into like a third wounded knee, you know, but also wondering,
Speaker 1: you know, what can I do? I can't physically be there,
Speaker 1: and I'm in another country. You know what's something I
Speaker 1: can do? Because I'm not a I'm not a teacher,
Speaker 1: I'm not a historian, I'm not really an activist in
Speaker 1: that sense. And I remember this film that I watched
Speaker 1: before I moved to Finland. It was made it's called
Speaker 1: Rhymes for Young Ghouls, and it was so different from
Speaker 1: any indigenous movie I had watched before. The main character
Speaker 1: played by Davy Jacobs. Her name is Ala, and I
Speaker 1: just saw so much in that character that I had
Speaker 1: never seen before in a Native woman on screen. You know,
Speaker 1: she was played by an Indigenous actress. She was on
Speaker 1: a reserve, dealt with a period in time in Canada
Speaker 1: that was very traumatic. That is not discuss usta at
Speaker 1: all about residential schools and you know, forced assimilation and
Speaker 1: you know, and I went into the film Rhyme streeng
Speaker 1: Goals expecting her to die, really because that's usually what
Speaker 1: happens to Native women. You know, that's unfortunate. But she
Speaker 1: survives all of it, like all of it. She's the
Speaker 1: main character. She wasn't some white guy's girlfriend. She didn't
Speaker 1: end up raped, she doesn't get killed, I mean, and
Speaker 1: she faces some brutality and some really heavy scenes, but
Speaker 1: she makes it to the end, she survives. And it
Speaker 1: was just that film really truly touched me. So when
Speaker 1: I went to see other um movies, you know, other
Speaker 1: indigenous films, and I specifically was looking for, you know,
Speaker 1: Native women and their roles in these films, I noticed
Speaker 1: how many were not like Ala in those regards. So
Speaker 1: in order to kind of contribute something, you know, in
Speaker 1: light of standing rockets, like you know, there's gonna be
Speaker 1: a lot of Native people who are going through a
Speaker 1: really tough time right now, maybe this is something fun
Speaker 1: or something a little lighter that we can kind of
Speaker 1: talk about. Because I noticed it hadn't really been discussed
Speaker 1: in a lot of feminist circles when it came to
Speaker 1: film and media representation. So I came up with a
Speaker 1: La test, and like the Bechdel test because it was
Speaker 1: inspired by it. She has to be an Indigenous woman
Speaker 1: who is the main character. And by indigenous, I mean
Speaker 1: she could be Native American, First Nations Sammy, Maudie, Polynesian.
Speaker 1: I knew, you know, any of those indigenous groups, but
Speaker 1: she had to be the main character who wasn't a
Speaker 1: white guy's girlfriend just does not fall in love with
Speaker 1: the white man and doesn't end up raped or murdered
Speaker 1: at any point in the story. And by murdered I
Speaker 1: also mean like killed or dies you know on screen.
Speaker 1: And so many don't pass, but the ones that do,
Speaker 1: you know, the test is like, hey, you know, check
Speaker 1: out these movies, and you know, the test also has
Speaker 1: its limitations because you can pass the LA test and
Speaker 1: be a great character, but you can pass a LA
Speaker 1: tests and not be a great character either. And there
Speaker 1: are several characters who don't pass who are like yikes,
Speaker 1: but there are several who pass who are actually really awesome.
Speaker 1: So it's just a conversation starter. Not necessarily if you
Speaker 1: don't pass, you fail and you're awful. It's just right,
Speaker 1: which is how we approach the Bechdel test as well.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm so glad that that conversation is being
Speaker 1: helped along with this test though. Thank you for inventing it,
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you to Jeff Barnaby for making the
Speaker 1: movie and Davy Jacobs for being a LA because wow,
Speaker 1: change It's on my list of things to watch. I, um, yeah,
Speaker 1: we should cover it on the show Come Back. Yes,
Speaker 1: oh absolutely, And we um not long ago learned of
Speaker 1: the alt test and mentioned it for the first time
Speaker 1: on a on a recent episode that we covered on
Speaker 1: the Witch with Guest Janisch meeting, and she had been
Speaker 1: the one to make us aware of your tests. So
Speaker 1: the Witch, the Black Philip Goat, Yes, I saw that.
Speaker 1: I saw that movie in Philt and it scared the
Speaker 1: hell out of me because I lived her next door
Speaker 1: to a cemetery. So I'm like, oh my god, uh
Speaker 1: movie that certainly does not pass the tests. Gracious, it
Speaker 1: is horrifying. It is a terrifying one. Yeah. So Jamie,
Speaker 1: what is your relationship with Frozen two? I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: it yet. I mean I came to the Frozen franchise
Speaker 1: by being a substitute Jim Teacher, which I think I
Speaker 1: talked about on our last Frozen episode where it was
Speaker 1: like the only way to get a child to do
Speaker 1: what you needed them to do was to say that
Speaker 1: you would play let it go if they did it.
Speaker 1: And in a few span of years, Um, so I
Speaker 1: I really only know the franchise as it pertains to
Speaker 1: this show. Really I didn't see those this movie. Um,
Speaker 1: when it came out, the conversation around this movie, it
Speaker 1: was like, um, kind of strange and like, I feel
Speaker 1: like what I had generally heard was like it's not
Speaker 1: what you expect and like and it wasn't what I
Speaker 1: was expecting either. I it was I think the more
Speaker 1: I researched this movie, the more I liked it. There
Speaker 1: was when I on first viewing, I was kind of confused.
Speaker 1: I and I still am confused in some ways, but um,
Speaker 1: I wasn't quite sure what they were trying to do
Speaker 1: and like what history they were referencing. And once I
Speaker 1: had a better idea of the history that they were referencing,
Speaker 1: it made way more sense to me. I wish the
Speaker 1: movie did a little more like work and letting you
Speaker 1: know what they're talking about, But I, yeah, I I
Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's I have so much, we have
Speaker 1: so much to talk about. I really hoped that my insight,
Speaker 1: like my lens into this movie offers some clarification because
Speaker 1: I knew exactly what they were talking about. Was just
Speaker 1: like wow, so oh I'm excited. Yes, I'm really excited.
Speaker 1: I mean I knew nothing about particularly indigenous cultures in
Speaker 1: this region. I knew less than nothing. And then the
Speaker 1: more I found out down to like the very specific
Speaker 1: reference of a damn being destroyed, and like the center
Speaker 1: of a huge conflict is like a reference based in
Speaker 1: his it was Disney was doing better work than I
Speaker 1: expected them too. They did homework, imagine. UM, so I'm
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it. What about you? Caitlin went
Speaker 1: through his read with this franchise. UM. I saw Frozen
Speaker 1: two in theaters when it came out. I see most
Speaker 1: Disney movies in theaters, including the live action reboots, which
Speaker 1: are never good, but I keep seeing them anyway. I
Speaker 1: don't know why. Who knows who likes those movies. It
Speaker 1: has to be someone. They all make a billion dollars,
Speaker 1: but like I guess children um. But other than that,
Speaker 1: like I tend to like most Disney properties and franchises
Speaker 1: against my sometimes better judgment, and against despite knowing how
Speaker 1: evil of a corporation Disney is. But when it comes
Speaker 1: to Frozen, I can kind of take it or leave it.
Speaker 1: I wasn't attached to the first one. The second one
Speaker 1: I liked better, but I felt like the story was
Speaker 1: pretty muddled. I like the songs, though I like the
Speaker 1: animation overall, I thought it was pretty good. I definitely
Speaker 1: liked the second one better than the first one. I
Speaker 1: leave the first one. I mean, now, you guess you
Speaker 1: can refer back to our first episode about it if
Speaker 1: you're a listener that hasn't heard that one. But it's
Speaker 1: so like feminism one oh one of our time that
Speaker 1: it was a little bit like alright, Disney, like we're
Speaker 1: making very very slow progress here, aren't we? Um right there?
Speaker 1: Like what if sisters like each other? And instead he
Speaker 1: does that? And in little bits where they're like this
Speaker 1: time the like male character is obsessed with the idea
Speaker 1: of marriage and you're like, I don't really know what
Speaker 1: if that's a helpful subversion, but sure I have a theory.
Speaker 1: Have either of you seen um, the nineties dub of
Speaker 1: Sailor Moon, Yes, yes, you know how Sailor you're in
Speaker 1: us and Sailor Neptune we're cousins because they couldn't let
Speaker 1: them be gay. Yes, I think Anna and Elsa are
Speaker 1: sisters and the first movie, I'm sorry they were super
Speaker 1: gay and I'm like, I have two sisters, Like, we
Speaker 1: don't act like that. Well, there is there was a
Speaker 1: lot of discussion about Elsa's character being kind of queer
Speaker 1: coded or at least like interpreted as queer by the
Speaker 1: queer community, or at least certain members of the queer community.
Speaker 1: So um, and some coverage around I think some of
Speaker 1: the there's always because it's such a huge franchise, there's
Speaker 1: always a lot of criticism and I think pieces surrounding it.
Speaker 1: And there was another influx of I think pieces questioning
Speaker 1: why they won't explicitly say that Elsa is a queer character.
Speaker 1: Um in Frozen two as well, and they but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's kind of the classic Disney like she's single, she's single,
Speaker 1: and it's like, can we let her be queer? The
Speaker 1: answer with Disney as always is um, yeah, anyway, well
Speaker 1: let's should we dive into the story and then from there,
Speaker 1: let's do it all right? So we opened on Elsa
Speaker 1: and Anna as children, their father Agner voiced by Jamie
Speaker 1: Would you do the honors? Alfred Molina my king. It
Speaker 1: was very exciting to hear I think he has maybe
Speaker 1: the like one of the first spoken lines of dialogue
Speaker 1: after the kids are talking a little and then you
Speaker 1: hear like he is not doing a voice he is
Speaker 1: just speaking. Is Alfred Billina? Uh? And I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And then you see, I was kind
Speaker 1: of a little bumped at the how they animated him
Speaker 1: to look it kind of looks like the like what
Speaker 1: it's like king does a picture of like what is
Speaker 1: it like called in video games where it's just like
Speaker 1: the stock player, like if you did google image cartoon king.
Speaker 1: That's kind of what the king was like. Sure, I
Speaker 1: think he should look like King Alfred Molina, but but yes,
Speaker 1: it was exciting. Also, he's married to Evan Rachel Wood
Speaker 1: in this movie, which you're like, all right, right, who's
Speaker 1: like my age? She's like, you're younger than me or something,
Speaker 1: and offered Milena's in his sixties the magic of animation.
Speaker 1: So King Agnar comes into the children's room and tells
Speaker 1: them about this enchanted forest whose magic was protected by
Speaker 1: powerful spirits of air, fire, water, and earth, and it
Speaker 1: was also home to the north Aldre people and the
Speaker 1: girl's grandfather king exactly, he had built the north Aldre
Speaker 1: people a damn. But then things took a turn between
Speaker 1: the two groups and the King's men were attacked, or
Speaker 1: so we are led to believe. But a mysterious girl
Speaker 1: saves young are during this outbreak of violence, and the
Speaker 1: fighting enraged the spirits, which vanished, and then a powerful
Speaker 1: mist covered this forest which has been there ever since,
Speaker 1: and the girls on it and Elsa are like, oh no,
Speaker 1: will the forest ever wake again? And the parents are like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, And then their mother says, only at
Speaker 1: Holland knows Um, which is a river that is said
Speaker 1: to hold all the answers to the past. I will
Speaker 1: say that the children's reaction to this very violent story
Speaker 1: is a little insensitive. Uh. They're like, awesome story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's true. They're like, oh, cool story. And then it's
Speaker 1: you're like, was that a cool story? Um? For them?
Speaker 1: It was. Then we cut to Elsa and Anna as adults,
Speaker 1: and Elsa here's this kind of angelic voice singing somewhere
Speaker 1: in the distance, and it seemed to be calling to her,
Speaker 1: and she says, hm hmm, maybe I should follow it
Speaker 1: into the I'm gonna stop singing because I truly have
Speaker 1: the worst yes, which I cannot do give the people
Speaker 1: what they want. And then there's this um kind of
Speaker 1: elemental disturbance because also woke up the spirits. I keep
Speaker 1: wanting to call them the Earth, wind, and fire and
Speaker 1: water spirits. It does every time you hear it, you're like,
Speaker 1: you sort of are feeling like you're watching an episode
Speaker 1: of Avatar the Last Airbender, and in this story, Elsa
Speaker 1: is Avatar. Elsa is also the Fifth Element starring Bruce Willis.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of movies Corbon Dallas. So okay, so
Speaker 1: the spirits have been awakened and everyone has to evacuate Erondel,
Speaker 1: the Kingdom where on A also live. And then the
Speaker 1: stone Trolls from the first movie show up and their
Speaker 1: leader is like, hey, um, there there's some wrong from
Speaker 1: the past has to be corrected. There's some truth that
Speaker 1: needs to be uncovered about the past. So Elsa I
Speaker 1: was like, okay, we have to go to the enchanted
Speaker 1: forest and find the voice and figure out what happened.
Speaker 1: So she Anna Christoph and all Off and Swen the Reindeer,
Speaker 1: all of her favorite characters um set off toward the forest.
Speaker 1: After a little bit of traveling, they come upon what
Speaker 1: I can only describe as the shimmer from Annihilation. Um,
Speaker 1: what the you know, like the shimmer from the movie Annihilation.
Speaker 1: But they have to kind of that's also in this movie,
Speaker 1: and it's this dense mist that they have to pass
Speaker 1: through to get into the enchanted forest, and once they're inside,
Speaker 1: the spirits show up. They were starting to reveal some
Speaker 1: clues about the past, some of the memories of the past,
Speaker 1: um Elsa manages to tame a couple of them, and
Speaker 1: then suddenly a group of North Aldra people and a
Speaker 1: small number of Aaron Delian soldiers show up, including Sterling K. Brown.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I had no idea he was the
Speaker 1: voice of that character until I watched the six part
Speaker 1: docuseries on the making of Frozen two on Disney Plus,
Speaker 1: which was a waste of time, but to watch, but
Speaker 1: that is it was helpful and that I learned, um
Speaker 1: that Sterling K. Brown one of my crushes. What is
Speaker 1: in this movie? We both have a crush in the movie,
Speaker 1: Yes we do. Alfred and Sterling cute. So all these
Speaker 1: people show up and they've been trapped in this missed
Speaker 1: the whole time, which we find out was like has
Speaker 1: been over thirty four years, which I was I was like,
Speaker 1: and then I was like, wait, how older Anna and
Speaker 1: Elsa are we do we know? Are they over thirty?
Speaker 1: Is that is that legal? In a Disney movie. I
Speaker 1: don't think so, because the king their dad was a
Speaker 1: little boy. Oh so they're they're okay, classic Disny. They're like, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, I can't have a woman over twenty five.
Speaker 1: The thing is because even canonically in this movie, six
Speaker 1: years have passed, because they were repeatedly referencing for reasons
Speaker 1: that I sort of found to be a bit much,
Speaker 1: but they kept referencing the amount of time between the
Speaker 1: first Frozen movie in the second one, which is six years.
Speaker 1: But somehow Elsa and Anna are still twenty the same age.
Speaker 1: Question mark. All these people have converged in the midst
Speaker 1: now and um all off gives us a nice little
Speaker 1: recap of the plot of Frozen one for for everyone
Speaker 1: that's there are multiple boys in this movie where I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: you're obsessed with the first movie. The first movie was fine,
Speaker 1: I don't want talk about it wasn't just like whatever,
Speaker 1: like it's so, but then yeah, Josh, God has to
Speaker 1: recap the whole damn thing, which I did kind of
Speaker 1: enjoy that part. K Brown Um reacts very funny when
Speaker 1: he's like, oh no, pretty cute. So then the North
Speaker 1: Algi people are like, by the way, we are innocent.
Speaker 1: We did not initiate this attack. We would have never
Speaker 1: attacked first. And then a guy who on a recognizes
Speaker 1: as Lieutenant Mattias voiced by Sterling K. Brown, who was
Speaker 1: their father's guard, says, well, we wouldn't have attacked first either.
Speaker 1: It wasn't suspicious of the colonizer. Really exactly that. Okay,
Speaker 1: this movie is very funny to me because they have
Speaker 1: to go on this and this whole journey to uncover
Speaker 1: the truth about the past, and it's so quickly. It's
Speaker 1: just like, just look at the variables. You have indigenous
Speaker 1: people and you have white colonizers, and a wrong was made.
Speaker 1: What do you thing happened based on all of history?
Speaker 1: Liked they probably they probably learned a very you know,
Speaker 1: whitewashed version of history, so you're right, they're full on.
Speaker 1: I was hoping, I mean, you know, it's not going
Speaker 1: to happen because it's like Disney. But by the end,
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, this could be a great chance for
Speaker 1: Els and Anna to become like anti imperialists and really
Speaker 1: like be like abolish the monarchy, which of course burned
Speaker 1: down their castle. At the end, it's two indigenous people
Speaker 1: as the king and the Queen. So it's like, well,
Speaker 1: I mean, captain colonizers in hell mad about that. I'm sure,
Speaker 1: I hope so God, I hope right, because it is
Speaker 1: Christophe indigenous as well. Yeah, okay, yeah that's what I thought.
Speaker 1: So so then the fire spirit attacks all the people,
Speaker 1: the little Yeah, it is a little charm mander. They're
Speaker 1: very key. They act like puppies. And then Anna and
Speaker 1: Alsa figure out that the girl who saved their father's
Speaker 1: life in the forest that day many years ago was
Speaker 1: their mother, who they also discover is north Auldra, which
Speaker 1: means that Anna and Elsa are half north Auldra. Then
Speaker 1: a North Auldra woman, Honeymaron, tells Elsa that in addition
Speaker 1: to air, fire, water, and earth spirits, there is a
Speaker 1: fifth spirit that acts as a bridge between humans and
Speaker 1: the magic of nature. Which yeah. So then Elsa and
Speaker 1: Anna head north to find the voice that's been singing
Speaker 1: to Elsa. They come upon a shipwreck, these shipwreck that
Speaker 1: killed their mother and father, and in it they find
Speaker 1: a map to Ata Holland, the river that is said
Speaker 1: to hold all the memories from the past. Um, because
Speaker 1: it's real, they discover um not just legend, and they
Speaker 1: figure out that their mother speculated that Otta Holland is
Speaker 1: the source of Elsa's ice magic. So Elsa sets off
Speaker 1: for Auto Holland, and not wanting to put her sister
Speaker 1: in danger, she kind of sends on a an all
Speaker 1: Off away on this Like this is one part of
Speaker 1: the movie where I was like, oh my god, she
Speaker 1: sends them down an icy slope at like five hundred
Speaker 1: miles an hour. I was like, she's gonna accidentally murder
Speaker 1: her sister. She's like putting her in even more danger, right,
Speaker 1: which also happens in the first movie, Like she she
Speaker 1: conjures up that giant like snowman that like almost kills Anna.
Speaker 1: She's constantly putting her sister to give for like the
Speaker 1: Big Sisterhood franchise that could me Elsa sometimes really goes
Speaker 1: in on. I'm like, I am also not a huge
Speaker 1: on a fan, but I wouldn't push her down a hill.
Speaker 1: A big sister absolutely would. But hear what a drink
Speaker 1: that was. I was like yeah, And then spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: all Off dies not directly because of that, but he
Speaker 1: dies later. He literally that was such a I was
Speaker 1: just like, alright, plot, I guess it's I guess it
Speaker 1: is the end of the second act, isn't it? And
Speaker 1: he was It was so vague. He was like, my flakes,
Speaker 1: my magical flakes. I don't want to go mr like
Speaker 1: I do. It's I don't know. We're obviously not the
Speaker 1: target demo, but it just like it couldn't be clearer
Speaker 1: that there's going to be zero consequence for this. So
Speaker 1: it is kind of funny to watch him like, not
Speaker 1: my flakes, and then it's like, we're gone. I don't
Speaker 1: know his flakes are gone. He dto oblivion. Meanwhile, um
Speaker 1: Elsa tames the water spirit, which comes in the form
Speaker 1: of a horse, and she rides it to Ata holland
Speaker 1: Um and then she sees all the answers to the
Speaker 1: past and discovers that her grandfather can Colonizer was like
Speaker 1: magic is scary, and the North Aldro people follow magic,
Speaker 1: so they can't be trusted, and that he had built
Speaker 1: this damn that he had given under the pretense of
Speaker 1: it being like a gift of peace, he actually built
Speaker 1: it to weaken their land, and that it was him
Speaker 1: who initiated the attack against the North Aldro people. But
Speaker 1: Elsa has gone too deep into Ata Holland, and she
Speaker 1: starts to freeze. She's able to use her magic to
Speaker 1: send the memory to Anna. Anna is lost in a
Speaker 1: cave with all Off and then she, upon seeing the memory,
Speaker 1: knows what she has to do to set things right,
Speaker 1: which is to break the damn which will flood Arundel.
Speaker 1: And then that's when all Off dies because Elsa is
Speaker 1: dying in her magic is feeding something about his flurries age.
Speaker 1: And then and then Honest sings a song that I
Speaker 1: thought was like very impactful and I liked about how
Speaker 1: like she is acknowledging the like deep, irreferable harm that
Speaker 1: her ancestors have done. She wants to do the next
Speaker 1: right thing, and you're like, oh, it's really coming into
Speaker 1: her own I've been waiting for this character to have
Speaker 1: like more agency forever. This is so exciting. And then
Speaker 1: two seconds later she gets rescued. But stuff I will say,
Speaker 1: though not to go too deep, but my mom passed
Speaker 1: away in September. So that song Honest sings just like
Speaker 1: it's so hard, you know, as far as doing the
Speaker 1: next right thing and everything. I'm like, oh, I love
Speaker 1: this movie, but it hurts me so beautiful. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that was my favorite song in the movie. I think
Speaker 1: show Yourself as Mine, but that was my second. I
Speaker 1: like Kristoff's like eight cheesy eighties rock ballad my favorite.
Speaker 1: It's really it wasn't bad, but it was there, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like kind of strange, much like Kristoph's entire plot
Speaker 1: in this movie. It's just kind of I don't know
Speaker 1: why he necessarily even needs to be there. Couldn't be
Speaker 1: a more pointless song, but it is like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm just like I like to hear Jonathan Grops saying
Speaker 1: I'll take it, I guess, but it is it doesn't
Speaker 1: have a place in the movie. I don't know, question mark.
Speaker 1: So then Anna lures the earth giants who are roaming
Speaker 1: the land towards the damn and they destroy it, which
Speaker 1: unfreezes Elsa because history has been made right and according
Speaker 1: to the movie, and this causes all the water to
Speaker 1: cascade towards Arundel, but Elsa manages to kind of get
Speaker 1: ahead of it and freezes it to save Aarondel, because
Speaker 1: again she is the fifth spirits of the element. She
Speaker 1: is the d s X mocking A, the d s
Speaker 1: X mocking I was inside the house the entire time yep.
Speaker 1: And then the mist lifts from the forest and everyone
Speaker 1: who was trapped inside is now free. Elsa and Anna reunite.
Speaker 1: There's much rejoicing. Anna has made Queen of Arundel, and
Speaker 1: then Elsa decides to join the North Aldra and look
Speaker 1: after the forest. And that is the end of the movie.
Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we will come
Speaker 1: right back to discuss, and we're back. Ali, is there
Speaker 1: anything that jumps out to you right away of like
Speaker 1: stuff you'd really really like to discuss? Oh? Okay. So
Speaker 1: for those of you who cannot see me, Um, I'm
Speaker 1: Anishinabe and I'm by racial. The reservation of my family
Speaker 1: is from is the Wapple Island Reservation in Canada, and
Speaker 1: my mother is a white woman and my father is
Speaker 1: an Ishnabe. So I'm by racial. I'm very white passing.
Speaker 1: And as someone who did not like the first Frozen movie,
Speaker 1: I was so stunned that Elsa especially suddenly became this
Speaker 1: character that I personally kind of felt represented by as
Speaker 1: a white passing assimilated Indigenous woman because although my father
Speaker 1: is you know of a darker shoe, I guess, a
Speaker 1: darker skin tone than I am. He was assimilated because
Speaker 1: his mother and his auntie were residential school survivors, so
Speaker 1: they had their culture denied to them. You know, they
Speaker 1: couldn't speak their own language, they had no culture. They
Speaker 1: were taken from their family, and um My and mother
Speaker 1: and her auntie, her sister had to actually leave the reservation,
Speaker 1: like they ran away to Michigan and that's where we
Speaker 1: live now. And you know they she married a white
Speaker 1: man who was my dad's father. So, um, in order
Speaker 1: to survive, really, I mean, you have to assimilate, especially
Speaker 1: back then. I you know, this was during World War Two,
Speaker 1: this was you know, all throughout. I think grandma was
Speaker 1: born in like nineteen seventeen, I think, and she died
Speaker 1: in nine So this is an entire century more or
Speaker 1: less of you know, you cannot really embrace who you
Speaker 1: are as an Native woman because you can be killed,
Speaker 1: you can be imprisoned, you know. And um, I think
Speaker 1: her name is i Dona, the else's mother. You know,
Speaker 1: that character really truly spoke to me, you know, as
Speaker 1: an Indigenous woman, because the concealed don't feel don't let
Speaker 1: them know. Thing that Elsa you know, sings about in
Speaker 1: the first movie isn't just about her magic now, it
Speaker 1: is about her identity and her family and her bloodline.
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, her mother knew that kind
Speaker 1: of pain she must have been going through because she
Speaker 1: was she couldn't go home. You know, she may not
Speaker 1: have ran away from home, but she could never return.
Speaker 1: And this was her life now. And if the Aaron
Speaker 1: Delian people didn't like the Nothalgra people, you know, she's
Speaker 1: not going to announce that, oh on Northaldra. She's going
Speaker 1: to keep that to herself and raise her daughters the
Speaker 1: best way that she can, you know, and that would
Speaker 1: be to assimilate, to look like, you know, the oppressor.
Speaker 1: I suppose, so Elsa really come into terms with this.
Speaker 1: You know something, it wasn't just the magic. It wasn't
Speaker 1: just keeping that part hidden inside. It's like there's something
Speaker 1: deeper than that. There's something that you know, I feel
Speaker 1: out of place. I feel like there's a disconnect. I
Speaker 1: you know, I may look like these people, and my
Speaker 1: sister may you know, be able to live among them
Speaker 1: a bit easier than I do, but you know, I
Speaker 1: feel like something is missing and I want to know
Speaker 1: what that is. And for her Disney to make it
Speaker 1: indigenous heritage, like, oh, this is your family history, this
Speaker 1: is your mother's people, these are this is your community
Speaker 1: and your culture, and that sense of belonging and healing,
Speaker 1: you know, that's really really powerful. And uh I am.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm white passing. I'm trying to reconnect. I
Speaker 1: have I up until, like, I don't know, I want
Speaker 1: to say, a couple of years ago, I didn't think
Speaker 1: I had any surviving relatives on my dad's side, you know.
Speaker 1: I thought we didn't have any cousins. We didn't have
Speaker 1: any aunts and uncles. You know, we had no idea.
Speaker 1: And recently I discovered when I went to uh the
Speaker 1: reservation for pow Wow, that there are so many different
Speaker 1: you know, cousins and relatives and stuff like that. And
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, you know, I brought my family tree
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh that guy he's cash, Oh that
Speaker 1: one he's nutty, that one, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And I'm like and then they started looking at the
Speaker 1: family tree and it's like we had common ancestors and
Speaker 1: common relatives and stuff. So that reconnection to family and
Speaker 1: to culture when it has been like forcibly taken away
Speaker 1: from you and denied to. I mean, Frozen Too really
Speaker 1: spoke to that part, you know, for me anyways, So
Speaker 1: it was so, I know, I really like this movie.
Speaker 1: This is I mean, this is honestly giving me a
Speaker 1: whole new perspective on the themes that this movie is
Speaker 1: speaking to. I mean, going into the movie, I was
Speaker 1: honestly confused at the beginning, like I understood the choice
Speaker 1: they were trying to make. I was like, I don't know,
Speaker 1: you know, it's impossible because you know, like I've certainly
Speaker 1: been brought up on such a warped version of history
Speaker 1: and I'm still in the process of trying to unlearned
Speaker 1: ship and not just unlearned stuff, but then learn the
Speaker 1: correct version of you know, what actually happened me. It's
Speaker 1: like a really powerful and ambitious theme in this movie
Speaker 1: to show that to children, to show that like the
Speaker 1: version of history you're presented with is very likely not accurate,
Speaker 1: and that it is like kind of your responsibility in
Speaker 1: a way to to seek out that truth and to
Speaker 1: find it. And then on top of that, uh, is
Speaker 1: something that I think I was like in the middle
Speaker 1: of the movie, I was like, whoa, this is like
Speaker 1: a pretty like bold choice for such a gigantic franchise.
Speaker 1: The only villain in this movie is their past, Like
Speaker 1: there is no and the first one it's who is
Speaker 1: that guy? Though, like you know whatever hans right, and
Speaker 1: and so in the first one it's like they are
Speaker 1: subverting it by the twist and blah blah blah. But
Speaker 1: like in this it's like their heritage and they're like
Speaker 1: their ties to colonialism is the villain of the movie.
Speaker 1: It's like a it's an evil that you I guess
Speaker 1: you sort of see through, like the memory of the grandfather.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, it is just like something
Speaker 1: that they need to reckon with, and that is I mean,
Speaker 1: that's holy sh it, especially because like when when Anna
Speaker 1: learns learns the truth about how her grandfather initiated the
Speaker 1: attack and that he had built the damn deliberately to
Speaker 1: oppress the indigenous people and how you know, and honestly
Speaker 1: something like well, that goes against everything that Aaron Dell
Speaker 1: stands for. And it's like, well, sure, like Aaron Dell,
Speaker 1: my masquerade is this like you know, righteous place, But like, no,
Speaker 1: that's not how colonization works, right. I think you can
Speaker 1: also be kind of viewed as like a meta commentary
Speaker 1: on like Disney properties as a whole of like, here
Speaker 1: is this like magical kingdom that you've always been presented
Speaker 1: to this like very whitewashed magical place like and what
Speaker 1: is being erased and what is being miss taught to you?
Speaker 1: Because that is I mean, that's been Disney's bag for
Speaker 1: a long fucking time. Is teaching you and glorifying and
Speaker 1: making making it profitable to show you false versions of
Speaker 1: of history, usually American history, that it's kind of a
Speaker 1: free for all with them. I think the thing that
Speaker 1: actually surprised me um when I first saw Frozen two,
Speaker 1: because uh, I'll send it to you guys on Twitter.
Speaker 1: It was like my live tweeting responses. It's like, all right, guys,
Speaker 1: watched Frozen two for the first time, and here's my
Speaker 1: reaction in real time as I'm watching it. You know,
Speaker 1: So when they're singing that one song at the beginning
Speaker 1: and it's not Thanksgiving but it is Thanksgiving, you know,
Speaker 1: like they're having a harvest feast or whatever, and I'm thinking,
Speaker 1: I'm watching it, I'm like, are they really having Thanksgiving
Speaker 1: in Sweden? Because you know, like because and then at
Speaker 1: the end of the movie, when they show Captain Colonizer
Speaker 1: and he's all like, we're gonna invite them in peace,
Speaker 1: and we're gonna see what they're you know, how many
Speaker 1: there are and what their strength is. I was like Thanksgiving,
Speaker 1: because Thanksgiving was not a happy feast. It was a
Speaker 1: massacre of indigenous people. So the fact that Disney did that,
Speaker 1: I was like, Wow, that never happens. And you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, like never, that never happens. And that
Speaker 1: was so it was subtle enough where I think a
Speaker 1: kid may have not quite connected the dots what I did. Ye, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think one of the I guess, okay, maybe I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, I'm probably always asking too much of
Speaker 1: a Disney movie. I kind of wish that that they
Speaker 1: had just let if they if we already knew, you know,
Speaker 1: and they and the movie goes out of its way
Speaker 1: to say, well, there's no one in Arandel right now.
Speaker 1: It's just it's empty, it's been evacuated. I kind of
Speaker 1: wish that they had just flooded it. Is that is that? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like symbolically, I'm like, maybe that's a little game of
Speaker 1: Thrones of me to to want, But but I mean
Speaker 1: it fits that I kind of wish they had just said,
Speaker 1: you know, fuck it. I think UM with that one,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people felt the same way, and
Speaker 1: I didn't just because I was thinking, you know, problematic
Speaker 1: element of this movie is that, you know, they blame
Speaker 1: it all on just this one specific person, you know,
Speaker 1: and not like an actual vermint, like the one guy
Speaker 1: who wanted to be the colonizer. The people for the
Speaker 1: most part didn't really seem to know what was happening,
Speaker 1: you know, because the girls didn't even know who the
Speaker 1: Nothalgil really were anyway, So I feel like if they were,
Speaker 1: you know, the person who already did this horrible thing
Speaker 1: is already dead, you know, he gets killed in the
Speaker 1: battle anyway, So that part is already like you know, avenged.
Speaker 1: But it's not just that, you know, it's you have
Speaker 1: to not only correct history, but you know, put in
Speaker 1: the work to make sure you know, the harm that's
Speaker 1: already been done can't be undone. But how you go
Speaker 1: forward with it is the important part. So you get
Speaker 1: rid of the damn which is causing all of this
Speaker 1: trauma and all of this destruction to the environment that
Speaker 1: directly still hurts the indigenous people living on it. And
Speaker 1: to destroy or the damn and then flood out Aarondel
Speaker 1: and destroy it. I feel like maybe the spirits were like,
Speaker 1: you know, this is only gonna make those people hate
Speaker 1: us more that their queen just destroyed their home, you know.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: really don't think these people are going to be all
Speaker 1: that okay with oh, but you know, the colonialism is like, yeah,
Speaker 1: but now my house is underwater, Like it's gonna make
Speaker 1: ship worse, you know, probably and build more touch and
Speaker 1: it's like that. So it's like, all right, so we're
Speaker 1: gonna put you on the throne instead, and they're gonna
Speaker 1: love you, and then I'm gonna stay here and we're
Speaker 1: gonna build relations and there you go, happy ending. It's
Speaker 1: very simplified, but it's a kid's movie, and they handled
Speaker 1: it a lot better than they didn't Pokehona so god ever,
Speaker 1: So do you feel overall that the representation of Indigenous
Speaker 1: people and indigenous culture was handled responsibly and respectfully in
Speaker 1: this film? So disclaimer, um, the northalgia of people are
Speaker 1: based off of an existing group of indigenous people, the
Speaker 1: Sami people. So I'm not Sammy, so I can't personally,
Speaker 1: you know, say like, oh yeah, they did great. Um.
Speaker 1: I did speak to um. I'm going to use his
Speaker 1: full title here, okay, so uh Sami activists and vice
Speaker 1: president of the Sami Council. His name is aslach Holmberg.
Speaker 1: I actually UM talked to him when I was in
Speaker 1: Finland because he's Sami and uh, he and members of AOSDTTANU,
Speaker 1: where this group that were organizing this moratorium in that
Speaker 1: opposed the Dano River fishery agreement in northern Finland. So
Speaker 1: basically the Finnish government was trying to deny salmon fishing
Speaker 1: rights on Sami territory and he was, you know, an
Speaker 1: activist at that time, so he was on like a council,
Speaker 1: you know, Sami council. He also did the voice because
Speaker 1: Disney did a Sami dub of Frozen two and he
Speaker 1: did he did the voice of the dad Alfred Molito.
Speaker 1: Know it's him well legacy, but he said, you know,
Speaker 1: he's biased of course because he worked on the film.
Speaker 1: But he said that the Sami people were very much
Speaker 1: involved with the representation of the nothalgia people and overall,
Speaker 1: you know, he did like it. I've got other because
Speaker 1: I asked other Sami people on the A La test
Speaker 1: what they thought about it, and it's been kind of
Speaker 1: a mixed bag. You know, there's elements that they didn't
Speaker 1: like so much and then lots that they did. My
Speaker 1: personal take, you kind of run the risk of when
Speaker 1: you create a new tribe of people, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. Like, for example, you know, there's this one
Speaker 1: video game I forgot what it's called, but they made
Speaker 1: up a completely different Native American tribe and it's like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you couldn't just use an existing one to tell your story.
Speaker 1: But that's because it was set in America frozen not
Speaker 1: so much. It's like, oh, it's this magical territory and
Speaker 1: it's not real, so we can create people who exist
Speaker 1: within it. And there's enough similarities where you kind of
Speaker 1: know what we're talking about. But you're not doing like
Speaker 1: the Twilight Poconist thing where you take an existing group
Speaker 1: of people and being like, oh, they're magical, Oh they
Speaker 1: control the elements and stuff. It's like, no, the Twolute
Speaker 1: people do not turn into werewolves, you know. The Sami
Speaker 1: people do not you know, work with giant rock monsters
Speaker 1: and fire spirits and stuff. But the North algier people can,
Speaker 1: and I like that the Nothalgia people were still just people.
Speaker 1: They just knew how to interact with the land, So
Speaker 1: that I felt was more respectful to what Indigenous people
Speaker 1: are because we're not mythical, magical creatures, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. We just have a connection to the land
Speaker 1: and the territory because it's a part of us. It's
Speaker 1: not just we're not on top and then the animals
Speaker 1: are beneath, and then you know, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1: It's you know, a web of connection and we have
Speaker 1: our place within the ecosystem and within this world. So
Speaker 1: that's better than you know, oh I'm you know, and
Speaker 1: the only person who is is Elsa and that that
Speaker 1: works out because she's just you know, special. It's not
Speaker 1: because oh I have this power because I'm Nothalgra is like, no,
Speaker 1: it's because you're she's an outlier. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hollywoo
Speaker 1: has a long and troubling history of describing magic and
Speaker 1: mysticism to non white people in a way that has
Speaker 1: really negative connotations. For example, there's the magical Negro trope,
Speaker 1: there's like the mystic Asian trope, there's like mystic Indigenous tropes.
Speaker 1: There's like all of these things that we've seen again
Speaker 1: and again in so many different movies, so and by
Speaker 1: and large magic like the magic is being used to
Speaker 1: assist a white character or to somehow aid their storyline
Speaker 1: and to other the non white character or characters. And
Speaker 1: I think the only real complaints that I would have
Speaker 1: isn't necessarily the nothalgia people. Some people say that they
Speaker 1: wish that the women would have had a bit more agency,
Speaker 1: which I think is fair. Christoff, who is an indigenous
Speaker 1: person as well, I feel it's kind of a missed
Speaker 1: opportunity as a Sami character. The Nothalogra are based off
Speaker 1: of the Sami, but Christoff in the ript is described
Speaker 1: as a Sammy boys specifically saw me. Okay, yeah, and
Speaker 1: it's like they could have done more than just oh
Speaker 1: he saw me. He likes reindeer, okay. You know, but
Speaker 1: like I don't expect them to go into like a
Speaker 1: deep you know, like basically turning the Sami people into
Speaker 1: like a costume like they did Poconas essentially, but you know,
Speaker 1: it would have been nice when Anna discovers that she's
Speaker 1: indigenous as well, that she and Kristoff could have bonded
Speaker 1: over something like that, you know what I mean, Like,
Speaker 1: I feel like that was a missed opportunity where I'm
Speaker 1: glad that they kind of cut Christoff out of the
Speaker 1: movie because it is predominantly Elsa's story, as it should be.
Speaker 1: But it's like, man, they could have really, you know,
Speaker 1: talked about this and bonded over that. And it's like,
Speaker 1: obviously Anna must have had some insecurities given her last
Speaker 1: boyfriend and what he tried to do. So I don't
Speaker 1: know if there's any reason to fall in love with
Speaker 1: someone you know and actually bond enough to marry them,
Speaker 1: it could probably be over that shared experience, you know.
Speaker 1: I think it would have been nice, I think for
Speaker 1: the audience like as well to be kind of reminded
Speaker 1: that Christoff is an indigenous person, because I think that,
Speaker 1: like there's not a lot of work done to really
Speaker 1: tell you that, and in a movie that is constantly
Speaker 1: reminding you what happened in the last movie, uh, in
Speaker 1: a way that is not always helpful. That would have
Speaker 1: been a helpful thing to be reminded of. And again, yeah,
Speaker 1: like like like you're saying, is something that could be
Speaker 1: you know, a very valuable bond for them when there
Speaker 1: is kind of something left to be desired for, like
Speaker 1: why are we talking about their impending engagement that we
Speaker 1: know is going to happen by the end of the movie,
Speaker 1: So much like that would have been a really good
Speaker 1: element one one thing that I would love your perspective on.
Speaker 1: And because I was just sort of um, I do
Speaker 1: wish that the North Aldrin people that we meet had
Speaker 1: more to do and had a deeper characterization because for
Speaker 1: characters that are introduced, and they are I think played
Speaker 1: by white actors, which again is uh, I mean why right,
Speaker 1: especially when they had hired several consultants, um Sammy consultants
Speaker 1: who maybe they weren't trained actors, but they could go
Speaker 1: and find some trained actors to cast in those roles.
Speaker 1: But but even on top of that, I think that
Speaker 1: most of the North all drink characters we meet are
Speaker 1: there in a very surface kind of way where I
Speaker 1: felt like, for the most part, especially with writer and Honeymaron,
Speaker 1: that they were mostly there to just give information and
Speaker 1: encouragement to a character that we already know. So like
Speaker 1: a writer is like, what's up, Oh, you have a
Speaker 1: romantic conflict? Let me be in a scene about that,
Speaker 1: and then he's in a scene about that, and then
Speaker 1: he's kind of gone, and then Honey, Marin gives Elsa
Speaker 1: I think. I mean, it's a it's a cool scene
Speaker 1: between the two of them that definitely pushes Elsa's character forward,
Speaker 1: But I just wish that we knew more about her
Speaker 1: and that she didn't just exist in proximity to Elsa.
Speaker 1: H I agree. You also see a character whose name
Speaker 1: is Elena. She seems to be I think the leader. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's I think she's like this is a Matrichal society
Speaker 1: because it seems to be implied that she is the leader.
Speaker 1: She is voiced by white actor Martha Plimpton, but yeah,
Speaker 1: she she isn't given much to do either, aside from
Speaker 1: kind of just delivering some exposition here and there, because
Speaker 1: it doesn't I don't even remember seeing her in the
Speaker 1: flashback scene, so it's not even like you know, she was,
Speaker 1: you know, specifically shown like, um, it's this name Mattias
Speaker 1: or Mattias Matteis. It could be anything another character who
Speaker 1: we learned nothing about. Then, yeah, because she hasn't shown
Speaker 1: really in the flash vac scene that I remember, so
Speaker 1: it's not like, you know, they could have drawn back
Speaker 1: on that and given her a bit more to do. Yeah,
Speaker 1: couldn't she have been there during the attack that was
Speaker 1: instigated by the Aaron Delian people, and like couldn't she
Speaker 1: offer some perspective on it like that kind of thing?
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, we don't see anything. Yeah, I was
Speaker 1: hoping that. I mean again, it just seems like a
Speaker 1: missed opportunity where having those characters there is so much
Speaker 1: more than your average dizzy movie is going to do.
Speaker 1: It's a valuable opportunity to give them the opportunity to
Speaker 1: prove by their own perspectives in text. But most of
Speaker 1: what we learned has to like appears in like snow flashback.
Speaker 1: And I feel like in a movie where there's a
Speaker 1: lot of snow flashbacks, why not just let them share
Speaker 1: their own history? Like why could Helena not be more
Speaker 1: meaningfully involved in in I guess educate, like giving Elsa
Speaker 1: this education that she so you know, it is so
Speaker 1: desperately wanting, like kind of touched on that like a
Speaker 1: little bit. And I do appreciate that when Elsa does
Speaker 1: bond with the Northalogia people, it is specifically with the women,
Speaker 1: you know, like at the end she's holding Honey Marin's hand,
Speaker 1: but she's holding Helena's hand, And you know, I think
Speaker 1: they kind of like gave that impression, but I wish
Speaker 1: they would have given us more. Yeah. Yeah, it made
Speaker 1: it more juicy. I just but yeah, because it's it's
Speaker 1: I don't think that then, nor the Aldrin characters fall
Speaker 1: into the Disney tropes that we are I mean honestly
Speaker 1: kind of expecting them to fall into. But there's still
Speaker 1: I just wish that yet they had like a fully
Speaker 1: realized character. And I mean, like none of the none
Speaker 1: of those three characters really have an arc. They don't.
Speaker 1: I mean that we are able to track at least. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I also wanted to say really quickly because I was
Speaker 1: looking into the updated queer readings of Elsa and Jennifer
Speaker 1: Lee in fact addressed this because there was I think
Speaker 1: we talked about this on our first Frozen episode. There
Speaker 1: was a huge fan movement and like a million petitions
Speaker 1: to explicitly acknowledge Elsa as a queer character. It was
Speaker 1: a gigantic millions of people were involved saying I think
Speaker 1: I think I signed the petition. I don't remember, uh,
Speaker 1: But in any case, it was such a large response
Speaker 1: that Jennifer Lee, they who wrote and co directed this movie,
Speaker 1: had to acknowledge it, and so she told a New
Speaker 1: York Times writer that the reason she doesn't explicitly say
Speaker 1: that Elsa is a queer character in this movie, and
Speaker 1: this is wild. She says that she has put every
Speaker 1: Frozen character through the Myers Briggs test, and quote it
Speaker 1: really came out that Elsa is not ready for a
Speaker 1: relationship unquote. So she, like yalaxy brained, avoiding the fact
Speaker 1: that Disney just doesn't like is deeply unable to acknowledge
Speaker 1: any non heterosexuality. But the I was like the Myers
Speaker 1: Briggs test, I just was like, my god, Jennifer Lee stretch. Further,
Speaker 1: I wonder if people ship Honeymaron and Elsa because they
Speaker 1: have a little scene together. You ship them? Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I do because they have that like tender scene together
Speaker 1: where they like the sting the lullaby and it was
Speaker 1: really beautiful. Frozen three, Let's learn more about Honeymaron and
Speaker 1: Rider and Yelena specific I mean everyone, but I'm like Honey,
Speaker 1: Marion and Elena. I want to know more about them.
Speaker 1: I agree, well, it would it would seem as though
Speaker 1: the reason that, unlike other Disney properties, and unlike other
Speaker 1: Hollywood films in general, the treatment of Indigenous people is
Speaker 1: again normally abhorrent, it would seem as though in this
Speaker 1: movie it is handled more responsibly and respectfully, because even
Speaker 1: unlike the first Frozen movie, the filmmakers of Frozen two
Speaker 1: hired a few Sami people as consultants on the film.
Speaker 1: We've already heard one of their perspectives, which is wonderful. Yes, Um,
Speaker 1: it seems by all the accounts that I found, the
Speaker 1: Sami people found that it was a positive collaborate ration.
Speaker 1: They were happy with how the movie turned out. There
Speaker 1: was some level of dissatisfaction was how Indigenous culture was
Speaker 1: represented in the first Frozen movie. And um that the
Speaker 1: Sami people felt that there was course correction there. And
Speaker 1: this is relatively new, I mean, very new for a
Speaker 1: Disney to actually do their homework on portraying cultures that
Speaker 1: are not straight up dominant white American Disney culture that
Speaker 1: I think I remember hearing about it. Most recently in
Speaker 1: regards to Mowanna as well, there there was an entire
Speaker 1: advisory council formed to make that movie. It seemed like
Speaker 1: with generally positive result. I know that people have notes,
Speaker 1: but like generally positive for for a Disney movie, and
Speaker 1: it's so I mean, it is still frustrating to see
Speaker 1: that It's it's mostly you know, like executives that are
Speaker 1: on the other side of these advisory boards and the
Speaker 1: fact that there is still such little progress on um,
Speaker 1: you know, making even even though it's a very positive
Speaker 1: thing that you know, FROs and two is you know,
Speaker 1: portraying indigenous culture and like really making strides and attempts
Speaker 1: to course correct on mistakes they've made. It's still, you know,
Speaker 1: a overwhelmingly white crew on this movie, is certainly an
Speaker 1: overwhelmingly white cast on this movie, and it's i mean,
Speaker 1: still work to be done for sure. I actually have
Speaker 1: a quote to so um so slate dot com writer
Speaker 1: I think his name is I'm going to destroy your name, sir,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's InKo King. I think Ko King. He
Speaker 1: compliments and criticizes the film's depiction of reparations. Specifically, he said,
Speaker 1: we have so few fictional portrayals of what post colonial
Speaker 1: restitution looks like that we should be careful of how
Speaker 1: we depict it. But he also said that it's admirable
Speaker 1: that fucking Lee even attempted a story like this, and
Speaker 1: even though it could have used a little more thinking
Speaker 1: through introducing the concept of nationalist myth making to children,
Speaker 1: particularly in a princess movie, that the general public has
Speaker 1: no expectations for other than to sell even more else
Speaker 1: and ohl Off dolls this holiday season is pretty commendable.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I agree, it's like, you know, for sure,
Speaker 1: you know it could have used a little bit more
Speaker 1: I guess thinking through, like he said, But then you
Speaker 1: have to wonder how many people, Probably the higher ups
Speaker 1: are like, no, you don't get to say that. Oh,
Speaker 1: that's way too much. You know, we don't want to
Speaker 1: change anybody's minds, so we just want to that's too
Speaker 1: far sell product. Um, let's take another quick break and
Speaker 1: then we'll come right back and we're back. I'm I'm
Speaker 1: curious Ali on your take on this, which is that
Speaker 1: so the North Aldra people they are designed to I mean,
Speaker 1: I think they are distinctly not white in their design.
Speaker 1: Now we find out that Anna and Elsa are half
Speaker 1: North Aldra, they look quite very, very very white. And
Speaker 1: while it is I think positive that in the Cannon
Speaker 1: now they are half North Aldra. Um children watching this
Speaker 1: movie know that these characters who they know and love,
Speaker 1: uh now have the knowledge that they are indigenous. Um.
Speaker 1: I think though, it's so helpful to see visibility on screen,
Speaker 1: especially of main characters, the characters who you have, the
Speaker 1: dolls of the characters who you have, the sisters of
Speaker 1: all that, all that for them to you know, Like,
Speaker 1: the characters are so designed to look such like Western
Speaker 1: beauty standard blonde, blue eyed, very fair skin in their esthetic,
Speaker 1: and I guess it just would be nice to see
Speaker 1: more visibility and representation on screen of characters who don't
Speaker 1: look like that. It's very clear that this was and
Speaker 1: I think some of the criticism around this that I
Speaker 1: think it's pretty well placed, is that like the decision
Speaker 1: for Elsa and Anna to have indigenous roots was made
Speaker 1: between the first and second movies. This is not in
Speaker 1: the foundation of this story. It's almost like a redicon
Speaker 1: in a where Yeah, yeah, because I think I remember.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is like unfounded or not,
Speaker 1: but I remember there were rumors circulating that originally Frozen
Speaker 1: two was supposed to be uh Sammy Center. I guess,
Speaker 1: like the characters were supposed to be Sammy, and then
Speaker 1: they changed it because I don't know if it's tumbler,
Speaker 1: so who knows how true it is. But but I
Speaker 1: do remember some discourse surrounding that, so I think this
Speaker 1: was almost like, oh, well, let's try to do that
Speaker 1: again this time, but you know, how do we do that?
Speaker 1: And uh. But at the same time, you know, while
Speaker 1: I agree, I'm like, you know, we have a billion
Speaker 1: white princesses, not just in Disney but in like all
Speaker 1: kinds of media. It would be nice to see, you know,
Speaker 1: someone who wasn't blonde haired, blue eyed, pale skin But um,
Speaker 1: I don't think I've seen too many stories where the
Speaker 1: white passing indigenous person, you know, is actually given a
Speaker 1: story about reconnection and you know, finding that culture and
Speaker 1: that identity again, So I do appreciate that, and you know,
Speaker 1: there was obviously thought put into it. It wasn't like, oh,
Speaker 1: a long time ago, this relative that I don't know
Speaker 1: was not so she's one sixteen, all right, So I
Speaker 1: do um. And I think it's also you know, like
Speaker 1: with Sami people, and really you know, the Arctic region
Speaker 1: of indigenous people's there are many different skin tones, so
Speaker 1: there are lots of very fair complexed Sami people like
Speaker 1: Asla Holmberg. You know, unless you knew him personally or
Speaker 1: knew of him, you probably just would have assumed he
Speaker 1: was finished just from his complexion and his hair color
Speaker 1: and whatnot, as opposed to Inupiat or Inuit people you know,
Speaker 1: who are very clearly, you know, a little bit darker
Speaker 1: but still lighter skin because of the region. So I
Speaker 1: definitely to an extent by that. The mom I think
Speaker 1: her name is, I'm gonna pronounce her name along. I
Speaker 1: think it's a Dona. But the mother, you know, being
Speaker 1: lighter complexed but still being Nothaldra but looking a little
Speaker 1: bit different from the other ones, you know, and then
Speaker 1: marrying a white man and having biracial children. You know,
Speaker 1: I can understand why Anna and also wouldn't look as ethnic. Also,
Speaker 1: you know, not to get too deep because it is Disney,
Speaker 1: but genetics sometimes skip Like well, I mean, my dad
Speaker 1: is very dark and me and my sisters are not.
Speaker 1: And then my sister had her daughter who is darker
Speaker 1: than us and is very clearly Indian, and so like,
Speaker 1: how did that happen? She's like one eighth It looks
Speaker 1: more like dad's daughter than we do. Interesting, how did
Speaker 1: that hippen, so, but I think I'd have to watch
Speaker 1: the movie again to see if there are other nothalogical
Speaker 1: people of various shades, I guess in various skin tones,
Speaker 1: because that also happens to, you know, within the community.
Speaker 1: I was very I mean in in researching this. I mean,
Speaker 1: I have learned a lot in the past couple of days.
Speaker 1: I honestly was, um not aware of any history of
Speaker 1: the Sami people before I started doing the research for
Speaker 1: this episode, and the more I learned, the more impressed
Speaker 1: with the movie I became. Because I think I was
Speaker 1: also sort of like, are they completely fucking this up?
Speaker 1: Or do I just not know enough about the cultures
Speaker 1: that they're referencing, but but learning about, um, the elements
Speaker 1: of Sami culture that they're referencing down to and we
Speaker 1: reference this a little bit earlier. But even the presence
Speaker 1: of a damn a colonial damn is I mean, I
Speaker 1: couldn't find an explicit, like, you know, someone from the
Speaker 1: production confirming this, but I guessing that it is referencing
Speaker 1: a controversy that took place between the Sami people in
Speaker 1: the Norwegian government in the late seventies early eighties. It's
Speaker 1: called the alta controversy where basically the Norwegian government said
Speaker 1: we're going to build a hydroelectric power damn, like a
Speaker 1: power plant, UM that was going to affect um indigenous
Speaker 1: Sami land. There was a huge conflict UM. There was
Speaker 1: like sustained protests, there was violence, and the Sami people
Speaker 1: ended up losing that battle. That hydro electric damn exists,
Speaker 1: and I thought it was really like I learned something
Speaker 1: which is great and also just um, that was more. Again,
Speaker 1: it's just more than I would ever expect from a
Speaker 1: Disney movie to make such a clear recent historical reference
Speaker 1: about um. You know. So it isn't like, oh, this
Speaker 1: is something that happened a long time ago, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't happen now. They're referencing something that has happened in
Speaker 1: you know, the lifespans of most parents who are seeing
Speaker 1: this movie and seeing that I mean, and learning that
Speaker 1: I thought was I was very impressed. I thought it
Speaker 1: was really interesting. And then the clear I didn't know
Speaker 1: that they were clear, but it is clear references to
Speaker 1: the mythology connected to these cultures, that there is a
Speaker 1: clear precedent for the horse character like that is rooted
Speaker 1: in Norse mythology, and that's you know, and and Ali,
Speaker 1: you probably know more than me because you've spent time
Speaker 1: in this region. Uh, but like there was a precedent
Speaker 1: for that. The name Iduna is like a Norse mythological
Speaker 1: name for the goddess of health. And just there were
Speaker 1: like details that I, you know, never would have known,
Speaker 1: but upon investigation that there there's also like a mythological
Speaker 1: president president. Oh my god, word precedent for for the
Speaker 1: stone giants. That is something that's also president in mythology.
Speaker 1: And yeah, especially comparing it to this is like I
Speaker 1: don't know why I felt the need to go down
Speaker 1: the rabbit hole of what a shitty dumb movie Avatar is,
Speaker 1: the James Cameron one, but especially I liked it. I'll
Speaker 1: talk about that another time, but there I will promise.
Speaker 1: I was just like researching. I don't, I don't. I
Speaker 1: couldn't tell you why, but I was researching how much
Speaker 1: money that production put into really creating deep lore and
Speaker 1: really doing its homework in pre production, but in the
Speaker 1: finished product most of it is not there in any way,
Speaker 1: like he should have written books. He should have called
Speaker 1: a Game of Thrones and written science fiction books and
Speaker 1: then waited until the technology was there, and then he
Speaker 1: could have made like an HBO c g I anthology
Speaker 1: series or something. There is like a star Trek amount
Speaker 1: of lore connected to that movie, but they don't use
Speaker 1: any of it in the movie. It's so frustrated. But
Speaker 1: that's so much is lost. Yeah, yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: guess they have five hundred movies left to rectify that situation.
Speaker 1: But if we But I was impressed that Frozen two,
Speaker 1: um kind of you know, in opposition to that does
Speaker 1: its homework and you and it is very present and
Speaker 1: it's plot relevant and it's all I just I don't know,
Speaker 1: I learned a lot. And um. Also in the music
Speaker 1: which uh, there's a really good YouTube channel called Sideways
Speaker 1: and yeah, their work is so good. They they do
Speaker 1: videos on usually about score music and film um, and
Speaker 1: they talk a lot about ethno musicology and like if
Speaker 1: a different culture is being represented in a movie, is
Speaker 1: it present in the movie. They do a great video
Speaker 1: on how Avatar kind of does not succeed in that
Speaker 1: even though they did so much work and then they
Speaker 1: didn't use it all the work they did great video.
Speaker 1: It was Yeah, And which is another thing that it
Speaker 1: seems that Frozen two was successful at his um researching
Speaker 1: um Sami music and having it present, if not completely dominant,
Speaker 1: but very present in the score, which is great because
Speaker 1: I love the composers of of Frozen. They've got it.
Speaker 1: They're very impressive, They're cool. Congratulations to them for I've
Speaker 1: got two points to make based on what you just said.
Speaker 1: So the first one in the Sami music. Uh, I
Speaker 1: always found that kind of strange. Um just that well, Okay,
Speaker 1: when I first saw the first Frozen, I think it's
Speaker 1: called vuali that opens up, you know that Nan nana
Speaker 1: hey n na na. So that was like my favorite
Speaker 1: song and the first Frozen movie. And it's a some
Speaker 1: a yoick um. So it's an actual traditional method of singing.
Speaker 1: And sometimes to my understanding, this is based off of
Speaker 1: video that Sophia Yanna did when she U came to
Speaker 1: Standing Rock in Solidarity. Uh, She's sang a yoick and
Speaker 1: she said that it's vocables, so you don't you aren't
Speaker 1: actually singing words, you're singing sounds, and it's about the
Speaker 1: feelings that you have when you sing. So that way
Speaker 1: other people can join in and they're not really saying words,
Speaker 1: they're just joining in with the sound and the music
Speaker 1: for healing or for you know, And it was just
Speaker 1: strange to me that that is a Sami method of singing.
Speaker 1: They have a Sami character in the movie, but the
Speaker 1: nostalgia people are the ones singing the yoik and they're
Speaker 1: not technically Sammy, even though they're based off of the Sami.
Speaker 1: So it's like, I'm glad they tied it in at
Speaker 1: least because they do sing it. But I'm like, um, okay,
Speaker 1: I didn't even make that connected. Yeah, that would make
Speaker 1: it far more offense. But since you brought an avatar,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna touch on it for a second because
Speaker 1: it does lead to another point in Frozen two. So
Speaker 1: when I saw Avatar, I loved it. But there was
Speaker 1: one scene in the movie where I was like, okay, uh,
Speaker 1: this scene can go one of two ways, and if
Speaker 1: it goes one way, i hate this movie from this
Speaker 1: point on. And I've been enjoying myself for like two hours,
Speaker 1: and then this happens, I'm gonna be angry. And it didn't.
Speaker 1: It went that way, and I kept loving it. It
Speaker 1: was when the white guy tells Zoe's Aldanna that you know,
Speaker 1: they sent me a spy on you guys and screw
Speaker 1: you over and she's like, you knew this was gonna happen,
Speaker 1: and then goes to fucking x acute him and like
Speaker 1: freaks out because in any other movie it would have
Speaker 1: been like, no, I love him, you guys, please listen
Speaker 1: to him this and she's like, no, you're dying now,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Add Dale's x mockinma. He
Speaker 1: you know, survives because he's got plot armor, but he
Speaker 1: proved himself before he can show his face again. So
Speaker 1: at least there's that, because if it would have went
Speaker 1: the other way, I would have been very mad because
Speaker 1: I'm so used to that narrative of the indigenous woman
Speaker 1: falls in love with the white guy betrays her entire nation,
Speaker 1: and you know what I mean, it's like yeah, no
Speaker 1: so and Frozen two, by comparison, there's a scene where
Speaker 1: Anna and Elsa are talking and Anna said, Yelena asked,
Speaker 1: why would the spirits reward Arundel with a magical queen?
Speaker 1: Because our mother saved our father, she saved her enemy.
Speaker 1: Her good deed was rewarded with you. You are a gift.
Speaker 1: And I'm like, at first, I'm like, no, I'm not
Speaker 1: a fan of that mindset, you know, and Indigenous women
Speaker 1: deserve better than loving their enemy for the greater good,
Speaker 1: because loving the enemy has not stopped the enemy from
Speaker 1: killing us. You know, it kind of goes into that
Speaker 1: Pocahonus romanticized territory a little bit, you know, white savior
Speaker 1: territory too, but you know, also using her power privilege
Speaker 1: to help her community rather than you know, make excuses
Speaker 1: and stuff. That's a welcome change. But I will say
Speaker 1: at the beginning of the movie, when they're playing, you know,
Speaker 1: with the snowman and whatever, and she's like, the kissing
Speaker 1: won't save the forest. The fairy queen saves the day. Yes,
Speaker 1: kissing did not save the forest. Her parents loved each other,
Speaker 1: but their love wasn't enough. You know. It's like racism
Speaker 1: and colonialism wasn't solved just because he loved one Indigenous
Speaker 1: woman and it stayed. You know, the forest was still
Speaker 1: in danger, the environment was still being ruined, the land
Speaker 1: was going into chaos. And it doesn't take just loving
Speaker 1: your enemy to make everything better. You have to do
Speaker 1: the work. And you know, the next generation is you know,
Speaker 1: you may not have done it, and it might not
Speaker 1: be your fault, but for the better of the world. Really,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to do something about it because
Speaker 1: sweeping it under the rugs and ignoring history makes everything worse.
Speaker 1: There was so much that we could go into about
Speaker 1: how Frozen two even goes into environmentalism territories as far
Speaker 1: as it's indigenous representation. But how long have you guys
Speaker 1: want to stay here where we we're down to hear
Speaker 1: whatever whatever you have? Like there, I hadn't even Ben
Speaker 1: made that connection. That is God damn Frozen to that
Speaker 1: that it's building upon clear mistakes that Disney has been
Speaker 1: huge in perpetuating, and then you know, at making an
Speaker 1: attempt to course correct and do that's really impressive. In
Speaker 1: the first lines of the movie, before Alfred, Molina says
Speaker 1: a word kissing is not going to save the forest.
Speaker 1: Princess weeks from the Merry Suit, she did a video
Speaker 1: a Frozen two and she was all, like Anna said,
Speaker 1: indigenous writes up. Damn Prince is one of her favorite people.
Speaker 1: We just we were just recorded an episode with her
Speaker 1: last week. She's awesome. Yeah. I've been following her since
Speaker 1: like early YouTube days. Really, what else I guess in
Speaker 1: regards to um in the more I guess uh like
Speaker 1: basic Disney plot that is present in this movie. I
Speaker 1: honestly don't love it all. There's so much like I
Speaker 1: know that like Elsa and Anna, like they have to
Speaker 1: be together because marketing, but every Frozen movie really is
Speaker 1: just like Anna, get out of the way, Like this
Speaker 1: is Elsa's because Elsa is the better character, right like
Speaker 1: she she is always more motivated, She always has a
Speaker 1: greater mission than on a duh. And so this this
Speaker 1: movie doesn't again where else's like by and then just
Speaker 1: like tosses on a down a hill and the movie
Speaker 1: does get better after that, but you know whatever for
Speaker 1: for for a franchise that is like Sisters, Sisters, Sisters,
Speaker 1: They're not together for a lot of this movie and there.
Speaker 1: But I did appreciate how their missions slowly merged, like
Speaker 1: I thought that that was that was well done, and
Speaker 1: that the way that they basically like receive this accurate
Speaker 1: history is different. They they have different where it is
Speaker 1: both like you know, they have the holy shit moment
Speaker 1: of like this is our family's history. It is not
Speaker 1: what we've been told. But I did appreciate that they
Speaker 1: reacted in character, which which was cool to see. Uh.
Speaker 1: I I honestly feel like I know that we need
Speaker 1: Kristoph to come back because marketing, but like the whole
Speaker 1: Christoph plotline like was, yeah, what was that for? Yeah?
Speaker 1: I didn't even mention this in the recap, but there's
Speaker 1: a subplot where he is working up the nerve to
Speaker 1: ask Anna to marry him, um, which it didn't necessarily
Speaker 1: add anything for me. I think they just they're like, well,
Speaker 1: we need to you know, he needs a reason to
Speaker 1: be here, so let's give him something to do. Um.
Speaker 1: What kind of what bothered me a little bit about
Speaker 1: this is that every time he is about to ask her,
Speaker 1: something goes wrong. And I understand that's how storytelling works,
Speaker 1: you need obstacles, but the thing that goes wrong is
Speaker 1: always that Anna jumps to a weird conclusion that I
Speaker 1: feel had like potentially kind of something gendered there where
Speaker 1: it was almost like, well, she's a woman, so she's
Speaker 1: gonna have a wild overreaction about something where for example,
Speaker 1: like when they first arrived in the forest and he
Speaker 1: says something like, oh, you know, under different circumstances, this
Speaker 1: would actually be a really romantic place, and then she says, Uh,
Speaker 1: different circumstances, you mean like if you were here with
Speaker 1: someone else, like she has just like Jos where it's
Speaker 1: like what do you where is this coming from? Anna?
Speaker 1: Like and and this happens a few different times where
Speaker 1: she has this really like almost and I don't this
Speaker 1: is me maybe just like being a little cynical here,
Speaker 1: but I couldn't help but feel that they were They're like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, she's she's overreacting because she's a woman or something.
Speaker 1: I don't know. And I feel like I kind of
Speaker 1: worked a little bit better if they would have reminded
Speaker 1: us that, you know, or if she would have said
Speaker 1: verbally she's like, hey, I know I'm acting kind of nuts,
Speaker 1: but my last fiance tried to kill me. I am married.
Speaker 1: You know. It's like, so maybe I'm not myself, but
Speaker 1: we're trying to have romantic moments and I'm like, oh god,
Speaker 1: what are your motives? Even though so it could have
Speaker 1: been that's kind of another like missed opportunity too of
Speaker 1: like like Anna would have very like she it would
Speaker 1: make sense for that character to have relationship ptsd um,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like now we just kind of
Speaker 1: want Jonathan Groff to talk to the moose, which is
Speaker 1: like I guess like it's a reindeer. It's a reindeer.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I got, I kept getting. I've have spent
Speaker 1: too much time in Maine. I wish I could take
Speaker 1: back every second. Um, but yeah, he like you know,
Speaker 1: it just becomes kind of this like you know, like
Speaker 1: him and the reindeer, and and that's the plot. And
Speaker 1: I will say, I don't mind that Anna wants a relationship,
Speaker 1: Like it doesn't bother me that, Like, I don't think
Speaker 1: that both of you know that every princess needs to
Speaker 1: not be in a relationship. If that's what they want.
Speaker 1: It's pretty like established with honest character, that relationship is
Speaker 1: part of what her version of fulfillment is. I just
Speaker 1: it's just the way that this plot is written that
Speaker 1: you're just it's kind of dragging out kind of a
Speaker 1: non conflict because there was no point in the story
Speaker 1: where I'm like she's gonna say no, Like the stakes
Speaker 1: are low, very low. And then also the one like
Speaker 1: problem they kind of create for um, I keep calling
Speaker 1: him Jonathan Groff. What's this Christoph? Uh? Is that like
Speaker 1: he is like concerned and that he is not enough
Speaker 1: and that like he you know, which is like a
Speaker 1: very real thing to tap into. But even and he
Speaker 1: references that in his song where he's like, am I
Speaker 1: good enough for her? She's so amazing all this stuff.
Speaker 1: But then whatever conclusion he reaches is arrived at off
Speaker 1: screen because by because he disappears for a huge chunk
Speaker 1: of the movie and then he shows up at the
Speaker 1: end and he's like, I have resolved my personal demons
Speaker 1: off screen. Uh, and I'm ready to get married, and
Speaker 1: then everything goes fine. It also made me laugh that
Speaker 1: at the end where either of you, I'm like, maybe
Speaker 1: I just wasn't paying close enough attention. But she's like
Speaker 1: at her like queen coronation ceremony, and she's like surprised
Speaker 1: that he's there. I thought that was so weird. I
Speaker 1: think it was that he was dressed up. Okay, yeah, yeah, right,
Speaker 1: because like, oh you think he would like really be there,
Speaker 1: he's all dressed up. But I also like that, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't have to assimilate baby, I like you her
Speaker 1: in your leathery And he's like, oh, I think, well,
Speaker 1: when when Kristof is on screen, especially, you know, for
Speaker 1: what Whenever he's there in like Act two and three,
Speaker 1: he seems to mostly be um saving Anna, who needs
Speaker 1: to be saved three different times in the movie um
Speaker 1: And this is something we talk about all the time
Speaker 1: in movies, where like women will be damseled and they
Speaker 1: have to be saved by their you know, a man
Speaker 1: or their love interests or something. And I thought we
Speaker 1: were past all this with fro the Frozen franchise, but Alas,
Speaker 1: she has to be saved the first time when the
Speaker 1: like the fire Spirit is kind of wreaking havoc and
Speaker 1: spreading fire around, Kristof has to grab her and save her.
Speaker 1: She's saved a second time when she's luring the earth
Speaker 1: giants towards the damn and they're throwing their giant boulders
Speaker 1: and Kristof comes riding up on Spen and grabs her
Speaker 1: and saves her. And then moments later she saved a
Speaker 1: third time when she's escaping and almost falls off the
Speaker 1: dam and Kristof and Um Matteias has to they both
Speaker 1: they both grab Rhige. I found kind of frustrating because
Speaker 1: it was like that that moment where she's rescued comes
Speaker 1: right after I thought like the most effective moment for
Speaker 1: her in the entire movie, which is her singing this
Speaker 1: song like the about you know, wanting to do the
Speaker 1: next right thing, and then it's a very kind of
Speaker 1: lazy choice that is constantly made in Disney movies is
Speaker 1: made right after this kind of felt like a breakthrough moment.
Speaker 1: So that was I was kind of bummed about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: deviation from what we normally see in that she is
Speaker 1: the one pushing the story forward and she is the
Speaker 1: one making the active choices to like destroy the damn
Speaker 1: and like she's the one who's initiating that action. Uh,
Speaker 1: and then you know there's destruction as a result, which
Speaker 1: she needs to be saved from. But it's like, well,
Speaker 1: if she can do the thing, can't she also then
Speaker 1: like say herself or why why was it written so
Speaker 1: that she has to be rescued several different times? And
Speaker 1: just the idea that like having a relationship is directly
Speaker 1: tied to a need to be rescued and that which
Speaker 1: is inherent to every Disney relationship of like she can't
Speaker 1: be a fully like autonomous, capable person and just like
Speaker 1: happen to want a relationship. I don't know, truly, did
Speaker 1: you guys know that the film well, of course the
Speaker 1: film is dubbed in Sammy, but have you heard the
Speaker 1: Sammy soundtrack? It is immaculate and it's on YouTube. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it right after we're done with this.
Speaker 1: That sounds great. Yeah, it is beautiful. Um. I did
Speaker 1: want to quickly touch on Matteias who again voiced by
Speaker 1: my crush it's Starling K. Brown. This feels like a
Speaker 1: response that the filmmakers got and for the first Frozen
Speaker 1: movie being too white, so they introduced a black character.
Speaker 1: My main issue with that character is it's is we
Speaker 1: just again Other than the fact that he was present
Speaker 1: for this event that we already knew about, it just
Speaker 1: seems like a very and I mean, I'm I'm like
Speaker 1: beyond thrill that Sterling K. Brown is a part of
Speaker 1: this cast. But as far as they wrote his character,
Speaker 1: it just it does seem a little lip service e
Speaker 1: on the part of the writers because his presence, like
Speaker 1: if you if you remove him from the script, nothing
Speaker 1: about the story, like nothing changes other than he provides
Speaker 1: a little bit of information when they first meet. But
Speaker 1: but it's like his presence is not extremely impactful in
Speaker 1: this story. All of gets more to dude, than he
Speaker 1: does write. Yeah, I'm not allowed to talk about a
Speaker 1: lot that I UM. I didn't hate his song. I
Speaker 1: thought his song was rather I also enjoyed son. It
Speaker 1: was a cute one. So you know, there you go. Um.
Speaker 1: Does anyone have any other thoughts about the movie? I
Speaker 1: thought that the I know that I mentioned the environmentalist
Speaker 1: issues are element of Frozen two, and that is something
Speaker 1: that I thought that the Spirits were kind of a
Speaker 1: metaphor for. I don't think it was just like a magical,
Speaker 1: you know thing. I felt like with the creation of
Speaker 1: the dam and then the attempted genocide of the nothalgia people,
Speaker 1: you know, and then sweeping all of that under rugs.
Speaker 1: When you ignore an environmentalist issue, you know, when you
Speaker 1: create pipelines or you create a mind or build a
Speaker 1: dam or whatever it is is on indigenous territory and
Speaker 1: then try to act like, you know, nothing's happening, it's
Speaker 1: all good. You know, things go bad. You know, the
Speaker 1: earth actually physically starts reacting with fracking. You know, earthquakes
Speaker 1: happen with pipelines. The water, you know, is polluted, the
Speaker 1: soil is polluted. So I felt that elsa interacting with
Speaker 1: the spirits wasn't necessarily just you know, oh look how
Speaker 1: magical she is. It was healing the environment that is
Speaker 1: in chaos because of colonialism and because of the dam
Speaker 1: and the damage done. So you know, and like that
Speaker 1: ties into again, you know, deforestations in lapland you know,
Speaker 1: the reindeer dying because of global warming and things like that.
Speaker 1: You know, So even that last scene and frozen to
Speaker 1: when the fog lifts and the main deer start running,
Speaker 1: you know, that's actually pretty impactful when you realize what's
Speaker 1: going on. You know, in the Arctic right now, everything
Speaker 1: that Greta Thunberg and aslack Homburg and Sophia Yanok and
Speaker 1: all of them have been really preaching about isn't really
Speaker 1: preaching because you know, they live in the Arctic. They
Speaker 1: know what is at stake and the damage that's being done.
Speaker 1: And I don't think Disney, like maybe I'm giving them
Speaker 1: too much credit. I don't think they wanted to go
Speaker 1: into Fern Gully territory where they're literally like Aaron Delians
Speaker 1: trying to chop down the trees and stuff and it's bad.
Speaker 1: It's more like, yeah, but the magic is out of
Speaker 1: whack because of something they did, so we have to
Speaker 1: do the right thing. And and the fact that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like doing your homework, especially in a movie
Speaker 1: like this is so important and representing indigenous people responsibly.
Speaker 1: Because this movie made one point five billion dollars, every
Speaker 1: child sees a movie at one point, like, it's the
Speaker 1: highest grossing animated like completely animated film of all time.
Speaker 1: I think the Disney remake of the live action reboot
Speaker 1: of Lion King Is is higher grossing, but it's like
Speaker 1: half live action half not, so it is like kind
Speaker 1: of in a murky area. But like as far as
Speaker 1: like a fully animated feature, Frozen two is the most
Speaker 1: the highest grossing. I was truly sad that Frozen two,
Speaker 1: especially with how good it was, wasn't nominated for an
Speaker 1: Academy Award. Yeah, yeah, that was, but I didn't into
Speaker 1: the Spider Verse, so there we go. Yes, that was.
Speaker 1: That was my favorite movie of that year. I love
Speaker 1: that movie so much, and I just I mean, I
Speaker 1: love I love animation. Like they're into the Fier Verse.
Speaker 1: Should have been a Best Picture nominee too. It's like
Speaker 1: people need to like especially now that um, you know,
Speaker 1: under the present circumstance, let's say the amount of animated
Speaker 1: projects are going way up. It's like people just need
Speaker 1: to like let go of whatever this like animation is
Speaker 1: just for like you can't tell a sophisticated story with animation,
Speaker 1: Like it's just so demonstrably untrue. Has anyone seen mo
Speaker 1: Wanna Wa Wa should have won? Wanta should have won
Speaker 1: an Academy Award. Absolutely, Utopia one, which was cute, but
Speaker 1: Mo Wanna Mohanna was the better film. It was so good.
Speaker 1: Maybe cry Oh gosh, I'm never I'm not never not
Speaker 1: crying during Mohanna every two seconds? Um? Yeah? Any does
Speaker 1: anyone have anything else? Is there anything you want to
Speaker 1: specifically ask me? Oh? Well, um, what would you recommend
Speaker 1: aside from rhymes for young girls? What other? Because we're
Speaker 1: always on the lookout for indigenous media, especially when it's
Speaker 1: you know, shows positive representations. Are there any other films
Speaker 1: that you would recommend? So the same filmmaker, Jeff Barnaby
Speaker 1: who did Brime Stream Goals, also came out with this
Speaker 1: awesome zombie film. It's on shutter It's called Blood Quantum
Speaker 1: and it is a zombie outbreak on an Indian reservation
Speaker 1: and the natives are immune to the disease, so they
Speaker 1: can't turn into zombies, but everybody else does. So it's
Speaker 1: kind of an allegory about colonialism, like should we help
Speaker 1: you guys again? Goes what happened last time we did?
Speaker 1: You know what I mean. So it's your typical like
Speaker 1: I don't want to say your typical zombie movie, but
Speaker 1: you know, just what you expect from a zombie movie,
Speaker 1: but with enough of original twist where it's so good
Speaker 1: and it is really really good. That's amazing, that sounds
Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, and then there's um so some of
Speaker 1: them they start indigenous actors and characters, but they're not
Speaker 1: all created by indigenous directors. I think it's important to specify, like,
Speaker 1: because an indigenous film would be you know, the indigenous writer, director,
Speaker 1: people behind the camera as much as in front of
Speaker 1: the camera. So Jeff Barnaby is indigenous, of course, and
Speaker 1: that's both of those rhymes. Three Young Gals and Blood
Speaker 1: Quantum are legit indigenous films, but films starring indigenous characters
Speaker 1: like mo wanna Uh. There's Whale Rider, which is I
Speaker 1: love it? Yeah, I saw that when it came out. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's Maudi New Zealand Indigenous people. Chris Air, who is
Speaker 1: pretty famous, uh Native American director did Edge of America,
Speaker 1: which is about a Native American um girls basketball team
Speaker 1: and all of them pass a LA test. It's like
Speaker 1: a whole ensemble, you know, of indigenous Native American girls
Speaker 1: on this basketball team and they all pass. And Empire
Speaker 1: of Dirt Okay, directors not indigenous, but it's a movie
Speaker 1: about three generations of Indigenous women, the grandmother, the mother,
Speaker 1: the daughter, and them coming together and healing together and
Speaker 1: trying to like become a family again. And it's so good.
Speaker 1: It's on Amazon Prime Songs. My brother taught me. The
Speaker 1: director is also not Indigenous, but the movie takes place
Speaker 1: on a reservation and it's very good. Then there's Leelo
Speaker 1: and Stitch, which Alisa from Gargoyles passes the ALA test
Speaker 1: because she's black Indian. Yeah. Yeah, I love a Lisa
Speaker 1: Maza anyways from Gargoyles, just because it's not in the past,
Speaker 1: it's not on reservation, it's not you know, in the
Speaker 1: some made up fantasy thing. It's just this badass black
Speaker 1: Native woman living in New York City, interacting with awesome
Speaker 1: creatures and going on this adventure and just being brave
Speaker 1: and smart and hot top three qualities. Absolutely, and actually,
Speaker 1: hang on, is it is it over here? Okay, this
Speaker 1: is the sequel to the book, but Rebecca Roanhors wrote,
Speaker 1: she wrote Trail of Lightning, this one is Storm of Locusts.
Speaker 1: It's the sequel, but the main character is a monster
Speaker 1: hunting Navajo woman and post apocalyptic American Southwest awesome, and
Speaker 1: it's awesome like decolonizing sci fi. It is amazing. I'm
Speaker 1: halfway through it, so deeply recommend. Maggie Howsky is a
Speaker 1: badass in every single definition of the word. And as
Speaker 1: for films that don't pass the test or stories that
Speaker 1: don't pass the tests but are still like worth checking out,
Speaker 1: there's a movie called Mina. It's the Inuit people meeting
Speaker 1: the new people for the first time, so there's pre contact,
Speaker 1: pre colonial. So this uh woman who falls um is
Speaker 1: kidnapped basically by Inuite trampers, I guess, and then you know.
Speaker 1: The story is unusual and unorthodox, but it's got enough
Speaker 1: nuance and complexity where I can overlook the rape scene
Speaker 1: that happened, because which is handled better than it was
Speaker 1: in the Revenant. My leagues and I hated that movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: you're going to have a bear in your movie, it
Speaker 1: should be Paddington. I've said it before, I'll say it again. Gosh, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: thanks for all these recommendations. Or there's a lot too,
Speaker 1: there's a lot to check out. I'm so excited. And
Speaker 1: then of course Avatar and Cora, you know, because the
Speaker 1: water tribe are Innuit inspired, and I really hope they
Speaker 1: hire an innuit actress for the live action series on Netflix. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that they don't, I'm going to be furious these be
Speaker 1: Shymeland again. The mess, So does this movie pass the
Speaker 1: Bechtel test? Is a lot the outside of friends and
Speaker 1: movies is they will never struggle with the Bechtel test.
Speaker 1: That's true, and it passes the Ala test as it
Speaker 1: is a yes, yes it does. And then as far
Speaker 1: as our nipple scale, um zero to five nipples. Based
Speaker 1: on how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist standpoint, um,
Speaker 1: I think I think I give this, like I'm inclined
Speaker 1: to take a little nippleage off for the fact that
Speaker 1: Anna has to be saved several times. I think there
Speaker 1: is opportunity to include the North Aldre people who are
Speaker 1: not Anna and Elsa more meaningful e UM. But the
Speaker 1: fact that you these characters are given this layer of
Speaker 1: being indigenous, you know, the discovery that they are half
Speaker 1: North Aldre is important representation for such a popular, lucrative franchise.
Speaker 1: So all the children who saw this now and especially
Speaker 1: Indigenous children who saw this, they have someone And for you,
Speaker 1: as an adult, Alley like you connected so much with
Speaker 1: this movie. That's why representation is so important. So there's
Speaker 1: you know, I think there's some pros and cons. There's
Speaker 1: there's some minor weaknesses for this movie, but I think
Speaker 1: that it does pretty well. I would give this I think,
Speaker 1: like four nipples. I think a lot of two the
Speaker 1: issues that we had with the first Frozen movie that
Speaker 1: we discussed at length on that episode. UM, I feel
Speaker 1: like some of those things are still kind of present,
Speaker 1: but I think that they do course correct some of it.
Speaker 1: And the fact that you know, it's a story about
Speaker 1: two sisters who were raised in a European kingdom whose
Speaker 1: ancestors were colonizers, and then them having to answer to
Speaker 1: the injustices inflicted by those ancestors on an indigenous population,
Speaker 1: and that's an interesting story. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: I can't help but think that when the first Frozen
Speaker 1: movie was being made, the creators never had any intention
Speaker 1: of having Anna or Elsa be bi racial indigenous women,
Speaker 1: which is why they look so white. But like somewhere
Speaker 1: along the line, some person at Disney went to the
Speaker 1: creators of Frozen and said, look, we have a diversity
Speaker 1: quota to fill. Can you do something about that with
Speaker 1: the Frozen sequel? And they were like, sure, let's retroactively
Speaker 1: make the main characters half indigenous. That should do the trick.
Speaker 1: And of course this is me speculating. I couldn't find
Speaker 1: anything specific about this one way or the other in
Speaker 1: my research, but that is what it feels like to me.
Speaker 1: Even so, I'll give it four nipples because the movie
Speaker 1: is trying and I'm grading on a curve today, so
Speaker 1: I'll give one to Anna, one to Elsa, um, one
Speaker 1: to Honeymaron, and one to Lena. Yeah, I'm gonna go.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go with four as well. I think, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's kind of interesting because it's I mean, the
Speaker 1: fact that arguably one of the biggest franchises on the
Speaker 1: planet prioritized not just representing an indigenous culture, but doing
Speaker 1: so responsibly. Um in a franchise that I would not
Speaker 1: have expected an attempt like this to be made, um
Speaker 1: much less pretty successfully. So I think it is pretty
Speaker 1: like an outlier in the entire Disney catalog. UM. And
Speaker 1: I want to give credit where credit is due there um,
Speaker 1: But yeah, docking for like I guess maybe like three
Speaker 1: points seven five to four. This is I mean, the
Speaker 1: nipple scale is the most important thing in the entire
Speaker 1: world obviously, But I'm I'm fluctuating between like a three
Speaker 1: and a half and a four because we do still
Speaker 1: have basically that I have, like my problems with it
Speaker 1: are kind of unchanged from the first movie, where it's
Speaker 1: still I mean, we still have an overwhelmingly white behind
Speaker 1: the camera team. It is. I think it is still
Speaker 1: like a very positive thing that um, Jennifer Lee is
Speaker 1: the writer and director of that in animation a woman, UM,
Speaker 1: even if it is a you know, a white lady,
Speaker 1: that still has a lot to learn. It is in
Speaker 1: animation particularly no small deal um, as we learned in
Speaker 1: our Brave episode where the female director was kicked off
Speaker 1: the film. Uh so, so I I still think that
Speaker 1: that's very impressive. But the um having white actor's voice,
Speaker 1: indigenous characters is I mean in there's really you don't
Speaker 1: have a leg to stand on in terms of defending
Speaker 1: that choice that would have been truly just so easy
Speaker 1: not to make. And then and then yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess that the Christoph storyline is kind of a
Speaker 1: little bit unnecessary, even though I just wish that they had.
Speaker 1: I liked what you suggested Ali far more of like
Speaker 1: Christoph and on a connecting on a shared culture versus
Speaker 1: just like I have to ask her to get married
Speaker 1: even though she's definitely gonna say yes. It's just like,
Speaker 1: why is she so nervous of out? It a very basic,
Speaker 1: like a kind of a weirdly basic plot point in
Speaker 1: a very complex movie. Um. And then I do wish that, um,
Speaker 1: the indigenous characters who we meet had more of an
Speaker 1: arc um and had more to do, because there was
Speaker 1: space for that in in the movie. But by and large,
Speaker 1: I was like, really really really impressed with, um what
Speaker 1: this movie pulled off successfully. And I guess I guess
Speaker 1: I'll match you at four, three point seven five, I
Speaker 1: feel mean I'm horrible now. One one to um Honey Marion,
Speaker 1: one to Elena, Uh, one to Elsa, and then point
Speaker 1: seven five to Anna because she gets rescued too much.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, I'm gonna have to say four as well.
Speaker 1: Just the only reason. Well, of course I'm biased because
Speaker 1: I just I loved it so much, But for a
Speaker 1: lot of the reasons you mentioned. To have Sami people
Speaker 1: as consultants is good, but I feel like there should
Speaker 1: have been more as far as like behind the camera
Speaker 1: uh and in the voice acting studio for sure, but overall,
Speaker 1: I think that compared to the likes of Pocahonas and
Speaker 1: other indigenous fils ahead yes uh and other Indigenous princesses
Speaker 1: and characters that are in predominantly white studios, you know,
Speaker 1: It's Frozen two certainly wasn't the worst, and it surprised me.
Speaker 1: It truly surprised me. I didn't expect anything deeper, you know,
Speaker 1: but it was wonderful and I give it for Anna
Speaker 1: is not getting anything, So I'm gonna give it Elsa
Speaker 1: Elena Christoff just because he saw me. Yeah, on A
Speaker 1: doesn't get anything, goodbye, nothing for Anna. Well, Elie, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for joining us, for being here. Where
Speaker 1: can people fund you online? Is there anything else you'd
Speaker 1: like to plug? Your tumbler for example, in which you
Speaker 1: have all the information about the ALT test all that stuff,
Speaker 1: so the alt tests on Tumbler and then I'm also
Speaker 1: Ali Naddy on Twitter. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. Please come back another time, like any
Speaker 1: any time you want. We'd love to have you back.
Speaker 1: This is like, this is so much fun. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: if you guys ever do want to do like a
Speaker 1: Pocahonas video, I absolutely recommend a little red Nacho on
Speaker 1: Twitter because she is from the tribe the mart Pony,
Speaker 1: I think that's how you say it, tribe tribe, so
Speaker 1: she knows about like the actual history and the oral
Speaker 1: traditions and stuff like that. Yeah, she'd be a great
Speaker 1: guest for if we didn't when we do a Pocahonis episode.
Speaker 1: So absolutely yeah, thanks thanks for that wreck. As far
Speaker 1: as our stuff, you can follow us at PacTel Cast
Speaker 1: on Twitter and Instagram, and we've got our Patreon a
Speaker 1: k A Matreon, Patreon, dot com, slash pecktel Cast. It's
Speaker 1: five dollars a month and it gets you to bonus
Speaker 1: episodes every month, plus access to our entire back catalog,
Speaker 1: which is I think like seventy episodes. Now. I don't
Speaker 1: know how time works, but it's been it's a lot.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of episodes you can grab. You can
Speaker 1: grab some merch if you'd like, over at t public
Speaker 1: dot com. Slash the Bechtel Cast and uh, we'll catch
Speaker 1: you next week. Gang, what is it fun? I'm like,
Speaker 1: what's a quote from this Well, after this episode, we
Speaker 1: are about to go back into the unknown. Bye bye,