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Speaker 1: On the Bechdecast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, z Eff and Beast start

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Speaker 2: changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Hi, everybody, this is Jamie. Welcome to the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Just a quick liner note before this week's reairing of

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Speaker 3: an episode we recorded and released last year around my

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Speaker 3: birthday about the feminist masterpiece slap Shot. The guest is

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Speaker 3: my dad, Mike Loftus, and we're re releasing it this

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Speaker 3: week because my dad passed away this week.

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Speaker 4: I really hope you enjoyed this episode. It was really

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Speaker 4: really special to me that we got to record it

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Speaker 4: last year, you know, unbeknownst to you the listener at

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Speaker 4: the time. I mean, my dad was battling with lung

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Speaker 4: cancer for three years before he passed. And the reason

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Speaker 4: that we were together last summer was because he was

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Speaker 4: going through chemo and you know, a very stressful time

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Speaker 4: and I was hoping to both manufacture a distraction for

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Speaker 4: us and selfishly, I just wanted to share what an

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Speaker 4: awesome fun person my dad is, and especially with one

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Speaker 4: of the topics that he's most passionate about, which is hockey.

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Speaker 4: You'll hear him talk about it in the episode. He

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Speaker 4: was a local hockey reporter on the Bruins beat for

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Speaker 4: the better part of forty years. I'm so proud of

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Speaker 4: him and all of this. I mean, everything that I've

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Speaker 4: done is because he's made me believe I can do it.

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Speaker 4: And whatever you know, you can none of your business.

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Speaker 4: All right, I'm gonna save that for the wake. The

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Speaker 4: point is, I'm really sad and I am so grateful.

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Speaker 4: Although I don't think I can really listen to it

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Speaker 4: right now. You should to have this kind of document

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Speaker 4: of who my dad was and what he's like, and

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Speaker 4: most importantly, kind of how willing he was to do

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Speaker 4: one of Jamie's little projects. Just an endlessly supportive person

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Speaker 4: that he came on our Radical FuMB in his podcast

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Speaker 4: to talk about a hockey movie that we did not

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Speaker 4: like very much, but just really special. I'll link in

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Speaker 4: the description to a little more about my dad and

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Speaker 4: if you're interested, weird as his family accepting donations to

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Speaker 4: the American Red Cross because my dad was weirdly obsessed

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Speaker 4: with donating blood and all the nurses were like Michael

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Speaker 4: has great veins and you're like, okay, whatever, anyways, if

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Speaker 4: you're interested in donating to the Red Cross, that was

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Speaker 4: something he was very passionate about. And yeah, recording this

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Speaker 4: in a hotel room. And I also just quickly wanted

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Speaker 4: to shout out my amazing common law spouse and dear

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Speaker 4: friend and coworker, Caitlyn Tourante, who has been just so

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Speaker 4: endlessly supportive and patient with me and with my family

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Speaker 4: as we've been navigating this pretty quietly for the last

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Speaker 4: to three years. There's been so many different times where

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Speaker 4: I've had to record from a weird place. Fun fact,

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Speaker 4: the Birdcage episode, for me, I was in a hospital

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Speaker 4: bathroom the whole time. But Caitlin has just been unbelievably

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Speaker 4: patient and supportive and I just love them so much.

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Speaker 4: And I know you do too because you're listening to

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Speaker 4: this show. But special shout out to Caitlin for just

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Speaker 4: being themselves and always being a place of respite and patience.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I love this show and so did my family.

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Speaker 4: So yeah, rest in power. Michael Patrick LOFTUS nineteen fifty

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Speaker 4: nine two twenty twenty four. Not long enough, but we

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Speaker 4: have this episode. We have an hour with him, So

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Speaker 4: enjoy it.

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Speaker 2: The Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 5: Happy Birthday, Jamie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much. Boom, slam, punch, slap, inside shot, divorce. Oh,

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Speaker 1: so many themes.

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Speaker 5: Homophobia, so many themes.

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Speaker 1: Pittsburgh.

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Speaker 5: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: I was really excited that this movie took place. I

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Speaker 1: was like, I was like, where is Kaitlyn going to

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Speaker 1: connect with this movie? There's got to be somewhere. I

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Speaker 1: was like, Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 5: It's the Pennsylvania connection.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, okay, Welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is

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Speaker 1: Jamie Laftus.

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Speaker 5: My name is Kaitlin Dernte, and this is our show

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Speaker 5: where we analyze movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using

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Speaker 5: the Bechdel Test simply as a jumping off point to

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Speaker 5: initiate much larger, much grander conversations.

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Speaker 1: It's true, and the Bechdel Test, of course, is a

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Speaker 1: media metric created by Alice and Bechdel as a joke

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Speaker 1: as a goof back in the eighties in her comic

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Speaker 1: Likes to Watch Out For. It started as just a

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Speaker 1: one off joke, but has since become a way to

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Speaker 1: talk about how and if women are represented in movies

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Speaker 1: and people of marginalized genders in general. A lot of

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Speaker 1: versions of the test. The version of the test that

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Speaker 1: we observe to start our conversation is the test requires

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Speaker 1: that there be two characters with names of a marginalized

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Speaker 1: gender talking about something other than men for two lines

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Speaker 1: of dialogue.

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Speaker 5: Or more or more preferably more often. But it doesn't

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Speaker 5: happen that way usually.

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Speaker 1: But there's so much to talk about it. It's not

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Speaker 1: the be all and endol movie, and today it's exciting.

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Speaker 1: It comes but twice a year a birthday episode where

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Speaker 1: Kitlin and I really get to go absolutely hogwild on

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Speaker 1: on our on our choice of movie, on our choice

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Speaker 1: of guest. It's a fun time. And this has been

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Speaker 1: an episode that has been It's not an episode that's

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Speaker 1: ever been. It's been requested by one person and it's

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Speaker 1: no coincidence of that person's guest.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, but I.

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Speaker 1: Would say it's been Well, Dad, what do you how

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Speaker 1: long have you been asking me about this? It's been

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Speaker 1: a couple of years.

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Speaker 6: Well, how long have you had the show?

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Speaker 1: Seven years? Now?

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Speaker 6: It hasn't been seven years.

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Speaker 1: I would say at least four years.

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Speaker 6: Well we've talked about this, I mean in your other

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Speaker 6: podcast life when you did the Kathy podcast, you know,

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Speaker 6: it was it was a thought that I had that,

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Speaker 6: you know, there was this comic. It wasn't for everybody,

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Speaker 6: but the more I thought about it, it was kind

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Speaker 6: of it was unique first time. You know, it was

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Speaker 6: like there really weren't in the comic strips. You know,

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Speaker 6: women were moms or girlfriends, maybe teachers, but there was

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Speaker 6: never like a single business woman. So I tossed that

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Speaker 6: to you, and I guess in the case of slap Shot,

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Speaker 6: you know, I sort of was thinking of a Kathy

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Speaker 6: thing too, because you know, there are interesting to me,

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Speaker 6: you know, representations of women and their stories, and that's

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Speaker 6: that's what your cast is all about, you and Caitlyn.

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Speaker 6: So I thought, well, you know, throw it out there

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Speaker 6: and see what they think.

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Speaker 1: And here we are, and sure enough, we're doing it.

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Speaker 1: We're covering a slap shot and the guest you just

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Speaker 1: heard allan Kitlyn usually introduced the guests, but they have

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Speaker 1: generously offered me the opportunity.

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Speaker 5: It's your time to shine.

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Speaker 1: Jamie, our guest today is a former hockey writer current

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Speaker 1: hockey fan. Has been covering hockey since the eighties, been

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Speaker 1: playing hockey since the seventies when this movie comes out.

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Speaker 1: He's also a proud father to two wonderful children, lifelong

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Speaker 1: Brocton residents. A Brockton legend. It's Mike loftis welcome. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to the cast.

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Speaker 6: Dad, welcome, Jamie. Good to see you, and good to

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Speaker 6: see you too, Caitlyn.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listeners. I'm currently in Brockton at my

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Speaker 1: dad's house and he's he's downstairs with my equipment. I'm

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Speaker 1: upstairs with my phone. We've had a very professional setup.

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Speaker 1: It's like we're not even. But he did drive me

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Speaker 1: to Dunkin Donuts right before the episode so that I'll

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Speaker 1: know on.

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Speaker 5: You got to have your birthday dunks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's true, it's yeah, it's I'm feeling the birthday love.

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Speaker 1: I'm feeling thrilled about the birthday. So yeah, my memory

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Speaker 1: of I don't remember when you first brought this movie

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Speaker 1: up to me for the Bechdel Cast, but you every

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Speaker 1: time you're like, I think you would be like if

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Speaker 1: I happen to be talking about work, you'd be like,

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Speaker 1: you know, Slapshot is written by a woman that was

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Speaker 1: just kind of the pitch and it stuck with.

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Speaker 5: Me, and you pitched it to me Jamie multiple times

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Speaker 5: as well, and it was yeah later.

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Speaker 1: Which, to be fair, it's not a personal attack. That's

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Speaker 1: how most of our episodes end up happening. We think

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Speaker 1: it over for a good two years, and then eventually

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Speaker 1: we cover it. I feel like that has become kind

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Speaker 1: of our habit.

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Speaker 5: It's true.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, Yeah, we're covering slap shot. It is a nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy seven film is directed by George roy Hill. It

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Speaker 1: is written by Nancy Dawd. It stars Paul Newman amongst

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Speaker 1: Caitlyn Is. Oh, I learned this. I learned this this

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Speaker 1: wearing dad. Caitlyn's horny for Paul Newman and he's very handsome.

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Speaker 5: Oh my gosh. It's kind of the only thing I'm

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Speaker 5: going to be able to contribute this episode. I am

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Speaker 5: my thirst for Paul Newman.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, unbelievable. Focused on men that night, having discourse.

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Speaker 5: I'm just gonna be like Paul Newman. Oh woo ga.

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Speaker 5: I don't like his character, but I very much enjoy

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Speaker 5: looking at his face.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess let's let's get into it. I guess, dad. Uh, Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: let's get ours out of the way, kill it. What's

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Speaker 1: your history with the movie slap Shot.

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Speaker 5: I only know about this movie because of the various

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Speaker 5: times Jamie, you've said, my dad wants to come on

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Speaker 5: the podcast and cover slap Shot, And okay, that is

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Speaker 5: the reason I know this movie exists, Jamie, what's yours?

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Speaker 1: I know this movie exists because my dad has told

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Speaker 1: me about it. But I also have we've had Hansen

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Speaker 1: brother glasses at the house for I remember where we

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Speaker 1: have like I think they're on the table next to you, Dad,

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Speaker 1: but they're like the Hanson brother like glasses. It is like,

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Speaker 1: that's the only part of this movie that I really

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Speaker 1: knew about. I had not watched it until the other

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Speaker 1: day to prepare for this episode, because you know, I

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Speaker 1: criminally have never been very into hockey, and so it

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Speaker 1: was not a movie that really appealed to me. But

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Speaker 1: I knew the Hanson brothers because they are so ingratiated

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Speaker 1: into hockey iconography that we have like glasses that were

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Speaker 1: given out of a game with the tape in the

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Speaker 1: middle and the hands, and brothers specifically are very iconic

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Speaker 1: in hockey culture. I think this movie is too, but

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Speaker 1: like more, I think the Hanson brothers are kind of

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Speaker 1: the most enduring would Is that right?

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Speaker 6: Would you say absolutely? I mean it's you know, you

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Speaker 6: brought us some other hockey movies last night. There aren't

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Speaker 6: a lot of them. Yeah, you know, there are a

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Speaker 6: lot of baseball and football and basketball movies. Hockey's I

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Speaker 6: think hockey fans of a certain age say it's it's

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Speaker 6: slap shot. And then you know, maybe another generation would

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Speaker 6: be the Mighty Ducks. And you know.

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Speaker 1: I think we would say more so than Mighty Ducks,

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Speaker 1: and then current current generation. I don't know if they

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Speaker 1: have a hockey movie.

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Speaker 6: I could tell you of a hockey movie.

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Speaker 1: But is it good?

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Speaker 6: It's goon?

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Speaker 5: Yes, Oh, I have heard of this one, Sean William Scott.

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Speaker 5: Isn't it? If I'm not mistaken?

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Speaker 6: I don't know actors that well, but I think it is.

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Speaker 6: I actually I know the gentleman that that film was

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Speaker 6: based on. Okay, it's a true story about a guy

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Speaker 6: who and and the and the movie does not really

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Speaker 6: tell the story of the actual person. But classic that

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Speaker 6: was okay. He knew, he knew that was going to happen,

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Speaker 6: and he was he was alright with it.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 1: I hope they paid him well for the book.

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Speaker 6: Rights that might have happened.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, a slapshot has not been a huge part

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Speaker 1: of my life. But hockey certainly has grew up around

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Speaker 1: hockey culture, hockey ideas, hockey labor. Yeah, I have I like.

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Speaker 1: I like hockey, I think as much as someone who

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Speaker 1: doesn't follow it can.

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Speaker 5: I mean, missus Zamboni, I.

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Speaker 1: Have a Zamboni tattoo, and I didn't notice until the

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Speaker 1: end of the first movie the movie slap Shot Zero.

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Speaker 1: Zamboni's Zamboni visibility at an all time low. My favorite

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Speaker 1: ice sports movie, as you know, is Ititania. I love Itania.

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Speaker 1: Not a single Zamboni and that one either, What the hell?

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Speaker 6: I know, it's pretty and you know it's interesting to

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Speaker 6: me that, you know, when I sat down to watch

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Speaker 6: it again the other night, like and watch it in

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Speaker 6: a different way, I didn't realize it was it's a

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Speaker 6: two hour movie, yes it.

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Speaker 1: Sure, it feels pretty long.

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Speaker 6: So so you know, there was plenty of time in

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Speaker 6: there for you know, Zamboni, tomfoolery.

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Speaker 1: And yet and yueling Zamboni's.

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Speaker 6: Well even just a you know, I mean, I don't

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Speaker 6: know if we I don't know if this is the

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Speaker 6: part where we even bring in little things about the

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Speaker 6: the film, but you know, little things, little things that

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Speaker 6: the you know, the team does to really really continue

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Speaker 6: to whip people in a frenzy, right, like you know,

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Speaker 6: parking an ambulance outside of a game. You know before

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Speaker 6: it starts, you couldn't have had somebody dress up crazy

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Speaker 6: and just like you know drive the zamboni.

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Speaker 1: Naked person driving a zamboni. Well, it's a perfect it's

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Speaker 1: a perfect rhyme comedy idea. Okay, never mind.

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Speaker 6: But you know, an oversight. I agree, Jane good point.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt strongly about that. I feel like Zamboni's

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Speaker 1: are rarely included, to the point where I wonder if

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Speaker 1: the company simply objects to it, because it just seems

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Speaker 1: like such an easy win. But they're a very kind

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Speaker 1: of flatigious Italian family, the Zamboni family, so I've heard

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Speaker 1: when I've tried to contact them. Sure, So I like hockey.

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Speaker 1: I had never seen Slapshot all the way through, and

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Speaker 1: I watched it twice to repair, once with my dad,

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Speaker 1: once without and I have I mean, it's so weird

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Speaker 1: because I feel like the the reason that I didn't

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Speaker 1: like this movie as much as I was hoping to

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Speaker 1: it just has mostly to do with the fact that

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Speaker 1: I historically don't love like super raunchy comedies, like they

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Speaker 1: just have never really appealed to me. But the more

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Speaker 1: that I learned about the production of this movie, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff to talk about. Certainly a lot

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Speaker 1: of it doesn't age well. We were getting dinner with

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Speaker 1: my aunt's last night and my Annie Kate, my dad's sister,

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Speaker 1: we've all been you know, hockey pilled over the years,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, oh, yeah, I've seen Slapshot. It's kind

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Speaker 1: of hard to watch now because it's long and a

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Speaker 1: lot of it ages really badly. And I was like,

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Speaker 1: all right, so we're all in the same page here.

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Speaker 1: But it is interesting. We don't cover a lot of

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Speaker 1: movies from the seventies, and I think for a movie

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Speaker 1: that a lot of it ages not well. There were

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Speaker 1: more women in the story than I was expecting. I

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Speaker 1: think more women than your average sports movie in general,

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Speaker 1: I would agree, So lots to talk about. Yeah, Dad,

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Speaker 1: what's your history with the movie Slapshot? Do you remember

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Speaker 1: when you first saw it?

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Speaker 6: Well, that it actually came out the year I graduated

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Speaker 6: high school nice nineteen seventy seven, which is when I

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Speaker 6: was wrapping up my my super average career as a player.

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Speaker 1: Okay, give us the rundown. What position did you play? Generally?

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Speaker 6: I was a defense defenseman. One goal career statistics one goal,

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Speaker 6: one assist, multiple penalty minutes. Knee injuries, yes, one knee surgery,

296
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Speaker 6: one broken nose. Went from there to I coached youth

297
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Speaker 6: hockey with a buddy of mine for a couple of years.

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Speaker 6: That was fun.

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Speaker 5: Nice.

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Speaker 6: When I was in college, I started officiating games as

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00:16:44,560 --> 00:16:47,880
Speaker 6: a way to make a few bucks. And then that

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Speaker 6: all dried up and I went into the the you know,

303
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Speaker 6: there was no future in any of that for me,

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Speaker 6: but I still just kind of couldn't quit the game,

305
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Speaker 6: and newspapers loved the sports section sports guy, so in

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00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,199
Speaker 6: the in the there I am and like the you know,

307
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:08,040
Speaker 6: kind of the teeth of the late seventies or when

308
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Speaker 6: there's a lot of people going into journalism because of

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Speaker 6: like all the president's men, and you know, everybody wants

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Speaker 6: to be a journalist.

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Speaker 5: Interesting movies are so influential is that it didn't really.

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Speaker 1: Feel like there is an uptick after all the presidents.

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Speaker 1: And that makes sense to.

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Speaker 6: Me, Oh yeah, definitely, because a person like me who

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Speaker 6: would show up and say, yeah, I want to be

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Speaker 6: a sports writer. Was like, what that doesn't count? What's

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Speaker 6: wrong with you? Yeah? So that that's how That's kind

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Speaker 6: of where it comes from. And the interesting little side

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Speaker 6: story is the the reason that I even played in

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Speaker 6: the first place was that when she was young, before

321
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Speaker 6: she got married, my mom was a huge hockey fan.

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Speaker 6: She loved the Bruins. I think she really liked the

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Speaker 6: fights a lot. But you know, she got married, she

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Speaker 6: had three kids in four years, and at around that time,

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Speaker 6: the Bruins in Boston, who had been terrible for a while,

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Speaker 6: all of a sudden they got very good. They had

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Speaker 6: a great team and a lot of personality, a lot

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Speaker 6: of fun, and she couldn't contain herself. She just she

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Speaker 6: signed me up, even though I told her I didn't

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Speaker 6: want to play so and you know, by the end

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Speaker 6: of my first season playing it was kind of all

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Speaker 6: I wanted to do.

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Speaker 5: Nice.

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Speaker 6: So there's my does that do now? I don't think

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00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 6: my mom watched Slapshot with me, but but you know,

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Speaker 6: myself obviously and my my hockey friends. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 6: certain aspects of that movie just from having played on

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Speaker 6: a team and everything like that, just kind of you know,

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00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 6: cracked us up.

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Speaker 1: And then just just for listener context, how long did

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Speaker 1: you work in sports journalism covering.

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Speaker 6: Hockey, specifically covering hockey. I would say I started like

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Speaker 6: in nineteen eighty nine. Halfway through that season, I became

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Speaker 6: like the full time you know, Bruins beat writer at

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Speaker 6: my paper. And I held that job through the twenty

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Speaker 6: nineteen twenty season, the last the bubble season, the pandemic season,

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Speaker 6: So it was a good It was like thirty something

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00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 6: years and I and also, you know, as my newspaper changed,

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00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,399
Speaker 6: the industry changed, and I had to you know, I

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00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,480
Speaker 6: always said the Bruins, but I found lots and lots

351
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Speaker 6: of other hockey stories to do. You know here in

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Speaker 6: New England and the Boston area is so lots of

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Speaker 6: college stories, lots of stories about minor league players, you know,

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Speaker 6: draft picks we had, you know, coaches. And one of

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00:19:34,359 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 6: the more interesting things was over my time was the

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Speaker 6: growth of like the women's hockey game, which I'm not

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Speaker 6: even sure it really existed when I started.

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Speaker 5: You know, I just realized I know nothing about it,

359
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 5: nor did I even realize there was a women's hockey league.

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Speaker 1: It's cool. I mean that that you know, obviously you

361
00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:58,960
Speaker 1: know a million times worry about it than me. But

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Speaker 1: when when I went to Toronto a couple of months

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Speaker 1: ago to do a show with your rock about I

364
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:08,399
Speaker 1: went to the Hockey Hall of Fame, and it's like

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00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:12,040
Speaker 1: this big, cool, sprawling museum that has exhibits on women's

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00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:15,159
Speaker 1: hockey and on non white hockey leagues, and just like

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00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:18,520
Speaker 1: all all of this cool. I don't know, you know,

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00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:24,040
Speaker 1: it is definitely a predominantly white male sport, as our

369
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,960
Speaker 1: most North American sports, but women's women's hockey leagues are

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Speaker 1: really really interesting, and I feel like there is I'm

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Speaker 1: kind of surprised that there isn't a movie about maybe.

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Speaker 1: I mean, listeners feel free to let us know if

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Speaker 1: there is one and we just don't know about it.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think I've ever seen like movie or

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00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:45,480
Speaker 1: show explicitly about women's hockey, which feels weird. I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's movies about at least one movie about women's

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Speaker 1: sports in most major sports.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean, but it was, I mean, it's it's

379
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Speaker 6: around here, and I guess, you know, in other places

380
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,879
Speaker 6: where hockey is a thing, you know, the youth and

381
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,399
Speaker 6: high school and college level. You know, women's hockey is

382
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 6: a thing. You know, almost every almost everybody has a

383
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,639
Speaker 6: team now in college. And the interesting thing to me

384
00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,719
Speaker 6: was it has struggled to really get off the ground

385
00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:16,600
Speaker 6: and stay established. But I will say, for like the

386
00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,000
Speaker 6: last five or six years has been a women's professional

387
00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,080
Speaker 6: hockey league, you know where women you know, it's professional,

388
00:21:24,160 --> 00:21:27,919
Speaker 6: they got paid to play. As the twenty nineteen twenty

389
00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 6: twenty season was winding down before everything shut down because

390
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,480
Speaker 6: of COVID, I always I think about, how interesting is

391
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,960
Speaker 6: that the last athlete that I interviewed face to face

392
00:21:41,080 --> 00:21:45,119
Speaker 6: one on one was a women's professional hockey player. Cool,

393
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:46,840
Speaker 6: which I thought was you know, I didn't know it

394
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Speaker 6: was going to be the last one. I thought I

395
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Speaker 6: would be going to work the next day.

396
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Speaker 1: But you would have talked to a man.

397
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,280
Speaker 6: No, I was there specifically to do this.

398
00:21:55,800 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, you're killing it. Everything's so great. No, No,

399
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,320
Speaker 1: that's that's really I am obviously a fan of my dad,

400
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:07,840
Speaker 1: but I think it's I think I do think it's

401
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,159
Speaker 1: cool that you've covered so many local stories that no

402
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:15,040
Speaker 1: one that that are not ordinarily covered, especially with I mean,

403
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: like I mean, Caitlin, what you just said is kind

404
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,040
Speaker 1: of proof of that of just like women's like women's

405
00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: hockey is absolutely a thing, but it's not covered in

406
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,680
Speaker 1: any sort of broad way.

407
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,760
Speaker 5: Right, Like I've never seen a women's talkie game on TV.

408
00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:32,399
Speaker 5: Not that I'm like actively seeking out sports games.

409
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:35,280
Speaker 6: You you would more likely find it during like the Olympics.

410
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,680
Speaker 6: It's a it's a yeah, And an issue is that

411
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,000
Speaker 6: the United States is great at it, Canada is great

412
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,840
Speaker 6: at it, but there's you know, they need more international competition.

413
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 6: It is you know, it's not like there's generations of Swedish, Norwegian,

414
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:55,600
Speaker 6: you know, European players.

415
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 5: I was going to say, like Sweden, what are you doing? Hello?

416
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 6: Yeah, I know, right, But I mean it'll come.

417
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: It will when I write my awesome women's hockey movie.

418
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 5: So let's take a quick break and then we will

419
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 5: come back for the recap.

420
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 1: First periods over, you could say.

421
00:23:24,359 --> 00:23:27,359
Speaker 5: And we're back, and now it's the second period. How

422
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 5: many are there periods? Okay?

423
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: Three? So this kind of works perfect.

424
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 5: Wow. Yeah, So the thing that I thought was halftime,

425
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 5: it's probably not actually halftime. There's like two breaks, there's

426
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 5: the middle.

427
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's not really any like manner of halftime show

428
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,880
Speaker 1: for hockey, there's like, uh, well, to guess my zanoni's.

429
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,240
Speaker 1: The Zamboni's are kind of how you know, like, yeah,

430
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,560
Speaker 1: they come out twice and they resurface the ice because

431
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: that's their kind of one purpose. And and sometimes, uh,

432
00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: you know, kids and also local celebs will come out

433
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:06,880
Speaker 1: on the zamboni and sometimes it's me at the Staples

434
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 1: Center in January twenty twenty, it was me one time.

435
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 1: I think we should. I think we should definitely post

436
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:14,400
Speaker 1: a picture of it to our Instagram.

437
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,439
Speaker 5: Actually absolutely, I think it's.

438
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,480
Speaker 1: Pretty important too. But there's well, there's also I feel

439
00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: like there's because there's no cheerleading element to hockey because

440
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,120
Speaker 1: it's on ice. But they have like what do they

441
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 1: call like it's a group of it's now a gender

442
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 1: inclusive group, but it's like a they kind of assist

443
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:42,600
Speaker 1: the zamboni's. It's not really as festive as cheerleading or dancing.

444
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 1: It's really just like excited sweeping.

445
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 6: And there are there are some teams that will employ

446
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 6: people to you know, stand in the stairways and everything

447
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 6: and cheer.

448
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:54,480
Speaker 5: Okay, I know that job.

449
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: It seems like a fun job. I wonder if I

450
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:00,119
Speaker 1: feel like traditionally those jobs are really low paid or

451
00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:01,720
Speaker 1: what the deal is in hockey. But I was like,

452
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: you know, I would sweep, I would sweep in shorts.

453
00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: Why not?

454
00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:06,440
Speaker 5: Let's do it.

455
00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: Anyways, let's what happens in the movie slap Shot. Then

456
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: let us I.

457
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 5: Would be delighted to tell you. Okay, we meet a

458
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:21,160
Speaker 5: minor league, right, minor league hockey team called the Chiefs

459
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:26,199
Speaker 5: from the fictional town of Charlestown, Pennsylvania, not to be

460
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 5: confused with Charlestown, Massachusetts, which is where the movie The

461
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 5: Town famously takes place.

462
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,440
Speaker 1: Well that is kind of the famous town. Wow.

463
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:42,119
Speaker 5: Okay, so the most seasoned player and also the coach.

464
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 5: I did not know that the coach of a hockey

465
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 5: team was also a player. Fascinating to me.

466
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: Can that happen in minor leagues? Is that a thing?

467
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 6: Yeah? It has been. Player coaches. The lower you go,

468
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:55,360
Speaker 6: you never know what you're going to see.

469
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:02,800
Speaker 5: So the coach slash a player is Reggie Dunlop played

470
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 5: by Paul Newman Albahabbah. And then we meet some other

471
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:12,800
Speaker 5: players like Ned Brayden. There's a goalie named Denny who

472
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 5: is French, and everyone makes fun of him for English

473
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,280
Speaker 5: not being his first language.

474
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,879
Speaker 1: I really like his opening monologue that ends like with

475
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:28,280
Speaker 1: him just poetically describing the penalty bucks and then you

476
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 1: get free. I was like, whoa, you feel shame and

477
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 1: then you get free and.

478
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 5: You're like, whoa, Denny. We also meet Joe McGrath, who

479
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,480
Speaker 5: is the team's manager because he's not the coach, so

480
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 5: he's the manager.

481
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 6: Is that right, Mike, Yeah, general managers what you'd call.

482
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 5: Okay, got it. He has the team do fashion shows

483
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,199
Speaker 5: to promote the games because people aren't coming out as

484
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 5: much to the games anymore because the Chiefs kind of

485
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 5: suck and they've been losing a lot. Also, a local

486
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 5: mill is going to be closing soon in the town

487
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 5: and it's going to potentially mean that Charlestown will sort

488
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,240
Speaker 5: of dry up and then the team might have to fold,

489
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:20,200
Speaker 5: So that's looming over everybody. We also meet the Hansen brothers.

490
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,720
Speaker 5: They have just been signed over to the Chiefs. They're

491
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 5: characterized as being a bunch of dipshits who bring their

492
00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 5: toys with them even though they're adults.

493
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: They're yeah, they're young adults. I don't know. It's like,

494
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:39,480
Speaker 1: it didn't shock me. That like when they're like eighteen,

495
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: twenty and twenty.

496
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 5: One something like that, and then you're.

497
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: Just like, yeah, I guess they would bring.

498
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 5: Their race cars.

499
00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:48,960
Speaker 1: I was subout to say they're not hurting anybody, but

500
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:50,640
Speaker 1: that's actually kind of their whole banger.

501
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 5: But they do kind of they are super violent on

502
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 5: the ice, and then they would later go on to

503
00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 5: form a boy band and sing bop.

504
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: Know, it's so confusing, Like, I God, that is that's

505
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,400
Speaker 1: a good generation gap. It's like, who are the hands

506
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: and brothers to you? Right, because I'm going to umbob

507
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 1: every time. I didn't know that boomers had their own

508
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: handsome brothers.

509
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 5: It's true. Okay. So we also meet a few of

510
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:25,480
Speaker 5: the players' wives. They're his wives, such as Bryden's wife Lily.

511
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 5: She hates this town. She seems to just kind of

512
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:34,840
Speaker 5: generally hate her life and possibly her husband. We also

513
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:40,520
Speaker 5: meet Francine, who is Reggie's ex wife who he is

514
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 5: trying to win back to know of it.

515
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 1: My hero, my favorite character, Francine.

516
00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,920
Speaker 5: Francine Rocks. So the team they wonder who owns the

517
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 5: team because they don't know, and Reggie is like, I

518
00:28:54,760 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 5: don't know, it's just a corporation and then they're general man.

519
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 5: That guy Joe reveals that this is the Chief's last season,

520
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 5: and the players are worried that they won't be signed

521
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 5: to another team. Some of them feel like they're getting

522
00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 5: too old to like be a valuable asset to another team.

523
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 5: Reggie thinks that they might get sold and get transferred

524
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 5: to a new city. He's thinking somewhere in Florida.

525
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: Reggie is such a mess. It is no secret to

526
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: anyone on this call. And I don't care for the

527
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: character of Reggie. Not a fan of his. I think

528
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: it's so like we'll talk about him more obviously later

529
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,960
Speaker 1: in the episode, but I really like, especially the second

530
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:45,400
Speaker 1: time when I was watching it, it was because he's

531
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:49,240
Speaker 1: such a piece of shit to everyone, and it's it's

532
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 1: really interesting to me that like his only redeeming moments

533
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: happen privately, Like he's never publicly nice to anybody. Privately,

534
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,840
Speaker 1: he will say nice things about people hid their back,

535
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 1: never to their face, and it just like it made me,

536
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: I don't know, it was it was an interesting character.

537
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it's tricky because it's like I don't think

538
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: the movie is fully I don't know. I mean I

539
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,959
Speaker 1: I think he's like he's a piece of shit and

540
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: also kind of tragic to me in a way, because

541
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,080
Speaker 1: he just seems like someone who needs a friend so badly,

542
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: but like can't stop getting in his own way enough

543
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 1: to ever like have a friend. Like, there's so many

544
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: characters in this movie that he almost forges a friendship

545
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: with but then turns on them or is a piece

546
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: of shit to them, or like feels insecure for a

547
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,720
Speaker 1: second and says something cruel to them, and you're just like,

548
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: this person is so like it's it's a mess, he's

549
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: an asshole, but it's also like it's sad, Like it's

550
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 1: like this guy just needs to get out of his

551
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:53,360
Speaker 1: own way and make a make a friend, but he

552
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: but he can't do it, and it's it's very frustrating

553
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 1: to watch him abotage himself over and over truly.

554
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, So he's insecure about the future of the team

555
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 5: and he goes to this sports writer Dickie Dune aka

556
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 5: basically Mike loftis.

557
00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dad, did you feel represented? Dicky done?

558
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 6: I do like that he's often well just trying to

559
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,480
Speaker 6: catch the spirit of the thing, you know.

560
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 5: He says this a lot.

561
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, I mean, you know whatever Reggie Dunlop plays him.

562
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 6: You know, obviously, you know kind of plants this story

563
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 6: about here we're getting sold when you know that never

564
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 6: was going to happen, right, So Dickie's Dickie's failure to

565
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 6: like maybe follow up on that.

566
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 5: He's not doing very good journalism, yes, because he's doing

567
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 5: no research.

568
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 6: But you know he's probably selling some papers, and you know,

569
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 6: he just it's funny how he just sort of fell

570
00:31:55,480 --> 00:32:00,800
Speaker 6: right into right right into Reggi's reggis trapped there.

571
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 5: Well, he is charming, he is like charismatics, so people are.

572
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: Like, he is hot, so you should probably.

573
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 5: Be so hot. So everyone listens to him.

574
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 6: And that's a great line too where there. You know, Paul,

575
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 6: you know reggis reading the story. Hey, Dickie Dunn wrote it.

576
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 6: You know it's true, right.

577
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 1: Also, Uh, it's it's stereotypes. Uh, sports writers as bad parents.

578
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: His daughter run out and her brother was bullying her,

579
00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,520
Speaker 1: and he's like, all right, resolve it among yourselves. Talking

580
00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:33,520
Speaker 1: to Paul Newman.

581
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 5: I'm doing business right now, I'm mister business.

582
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:37,040
Speaker 1: Bad representation.

583
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 6: I think there might have been a drink or two

584
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 6: there too.

585
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: Oh, yeah, yeah, he said, he said, go away, kids,

586
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,720
Speaker 1: and then he starts drinking again. There's a lot of

587
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 1: drinking in this movie.

588
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 5: So much drinking.

589
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, Dad, you'll have to explain the seventies.

590
00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 5: So Dickie Dunn is like, that's ridiculous. No one's gonna

591
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 5: buy a fifth place team, and Reggie is like, well

592
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 5: that's about to change. Meanwhile, Reggie is having an affair

593
00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 5: with an opponent's wife, his wife, Suzanne, and she tells

594
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,000
Speaker 5: Reggie that she's been sleeping with other women recently, which

595
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 5: Reggie uses when he plays his opponent the following week.

596
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 5: This guy named Hanrahan Han Rahn. That will we'll talk

597
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 5: about that.

598
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: That'll be a whole thing, because that's it's like, that's

599
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,960
Speaker 1: something that this movie is so constantly infuriating, mostly because

600
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: of regg Yeah, where you're like, oh wow, I would

601
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,040
Speaker 1: guess that that wouldn't be something that would be like

602
00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: commonly discussed in a popular movie in the seventies, and

603
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: then in the next scene you're like, well, what was

604
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 1: the point, Like, if you're just going to.

605
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 5: Do that, what was the point exactly? Yeah, So Hanrahan

606
00:33:57,240 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 5: is the goalie for the other team, and Reggie is

607
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 5: taunting him and saying, you know your wife is a lesbian.

608
00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 5: But he's using a lot of slurs and it makes

609
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:13,280
Speaker 5: hanrah Han so mad and distracted that he gets scored

610
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:17,399
Speaker 5: on a bunch and the Chiefs win, also partly because

611
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:20,439
Speaker 5: they get very violent and start beating the shit out

612
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 5: of the other.

613
00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: Team, which is sort of like becoming their new Emma

614
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:25,360
Speaker 1: ohing card.

615
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:30,800
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, yes. Meanwhile, we have a scene with Lily.

616
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 5: She's still having a really hard time. It seems like

617
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:38,279
Speaker 5: Brandon is cheating on her, and then Reggie tries to

618
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 5: comfort her, but in a very sleazy way where he's like,

619
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:44,400
Speaker 5: come over, I'll give you a foot rub.

620
00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: He's so frustrating. I'm just like, she h, that's whatever

621
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 1: I mean. I guess the choice is consistent with Reggie's character,

622
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 1: but I'm just like, ah, these two characters, they both

623
00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: need a friend. Why can't they be friends to each other?

624
00:34:58,440 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: But it's because Reggie can't.

625
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:00,800
Speaker 5: He's a creep.

626
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he can't not be a creep.

627
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 5: But he's not even the most creepy guy on the team,

628
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 5: because that's a guy named.

629
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: Morris's Oh he's a disaster. Yeah.

630
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 5: Anyway, so the team sees this story in the paper

631
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,839
Speaker 5: that Dicky Dunn had printed about how the Chiefs are

632
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:22,399
Speaker 5: going to get bought and transferred to Florida, which they're

633
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 5: very excited about. And so, with the team morale higher

634
00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 5: than ever, the Chiefs start winning a bunch, although again

635
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 5: they're playing way rougher than normal. There's lots of punching

636
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 5: and bloody faces and stuff. Although Brayden is opposed to

637
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 5: playing dirty, he thinks it's cheap and not the right

638
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 5: way to win, which.

639
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 1: He'll sort of like built into He's like, I went

640
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 1: to college. I'm not none of this nonsense. I went

641
00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 1: to college.

642
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I'm still a piece of shit who's cheating on

643
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,839
Speaker 5: my wife, But I have morals.

644
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: I went to Colin.

645
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:07,160
Speaker 5: But Reggie is very pro all of this hockey violence,

646
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,839
Speaker 5: and he starts putting the Hansen brothers in the game,

647
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 5: whose entire strategy is just to punch the ship out

648
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 5: of their opponents.

649
00:36:16,239 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: I kind of love the hands, Like, it's kind of

650
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 1: hard not to love the Hansen brothers.

651
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,280
Speaker 5: They're so goofy. They're extremely goofy.

652
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:27,399
Speaker 1: Wait, my dad's got some some a real a real

653
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:32,360
Speaker 1: sleigh of a of a context corner for them. But oh, okay,

654
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: I love I love the hands and brothers. They're fun.

655
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:44,760
Speaker 5: I yeah, they're awesome anyway, So, uh, the team continues

656
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 5: to speculate who the owner is. Meanwhile, this thing is

657
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:53,879
Speaker 5: happening where Reggie just like keeps lying about the team

658
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:58,280
Speaker 5: getting bought and sold to keep the morale up. And

659
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,560
Speaker 5: also maybe he's just like deluding himself because he knows

660
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,680
Speaker 5: that he's about to reach a point where he's probably

661
00:37:05,719 --> 00:37:09,000
Speaker 5: gonna have to retire and he's so insecure and he

662
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 5: can't deal with it.

663
00:37:10,440 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 1: It's so I read this incredible essay about how Reggie

664
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:21,120
Speaker 1: is a metaphor for the men of Pittsburgh in the seventies. Wow,

665
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:24,280
Speaker 1: and I'm just like, I'm excited to talk about it later.

666
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 5: Okay, Okay, So then Reggie sees Francene with another guy

667
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:35,680
Speaker 5: and he's kind of like following her around and calling

668
00:37:35,719 --> 00:37:38,719
Speaker 5: different places that he knows that she frequents to try

669
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:43,239
Speaker 5: to like see who she's been there with. Very stalker behavior.

670
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah he's doing I mean he does the same thing

671
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:47,360
Speaker 1: to Lily. He like jumps in her car at one point,

672
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:51,840
Speaker 1: like he's just he has no issue really inserting me around.

673
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, and he bumps into her at some point,

674
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 5: and franccene tells Reggie that she's moving to Long Island,

675
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:05,320
Speaker 5: which I'm like, yes, please get away from him. Then

676
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 5: there's an upcoming game against Syracuse, so Reggie goes on

677
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 5: the radio for an interview and he says that he's

678
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 5: putting a bounty on I don't know if it's that

679
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 5: team's coach or just kind of like one of their

680
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:23,879
Speaker 5: star players, this guy Tim McCracken. And he's like, I'm

681
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,000
Speaker 5: paying one hundred dollars of my own money for someone

682
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:28,360
Speaker 5: to kill him.

683
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: It's such a love bounty. It's kind of fun, right.

684
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 5: And then there's this player who has given himself the

685
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 5: nickname Killer, and he's like, I'll do it. I'll kill

686
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 5: Tim McCracken. Anyway, Lily shows up at Reggie's place with

687
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:52,200
Speaker 5: her huge Saint Bernard dog. She seems to have left

688
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:55,240
Speaker 5: Bryden and she has a new lease online.

689
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:56,359
Speaker 1: He doesn't know it yet.

690
00:38:56,440 --> 00:39:01,440
Speaker 5: He doesn't know it yet, let's see. Then Reggie takes

691
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 5: Lily to Francine's hair salon and she gets a bit

692
00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 5: of a makeover.

693
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 1: I have some I have complicated thoughts about that scene

694
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,960
Speaker 1: because I feel like that scene's heart is in the

695
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:16,359
Speaker 1: right place, but it's kind of broadly done, but I'm

696
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 1: excited to talk about it.

697
00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then Reggie finally figures out who the

698
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 5: owner of the Chiefs is and he goes to see him,

699
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 5: just kidding. It's a woman seemed wit Anita McCambridge, and

700
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 5: he wants to know how the sale of the team

701
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 5: is going, but she tells him that she plans to

702
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 5: fold the team and take a tax loss rather than

703
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,240
Speaker 5: sell it because she won't make enough of a profit

704
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 5: if she sells the team.

705
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:50,080
Speaker 1: It's like every single decision, like every streamer is making

706
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 1: right now. They're like, no, actually, we're deleting your entire

707
00:39:53,960 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: life and career because it suits me today. Fuck you.

708
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:05,240
Speaker 5: Yikes. And so this news infuriates Reggie and he brutally

709
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 5: insults her son and then storms out.

710
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: Classic Reggie, He's like, well, I'm feeling a little insecure

711
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,719
Speaker 1: and angry. Let me insult someone who's not here in

712
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: the cruelest way I can possibly think of. Truly, it's

713
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: kind of his whole thing.

714
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 5: Then Reggie comes clean to his team. He admits that

715
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 5: there's no deal for them to be bought and moved

716
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 5: to Florida. That Ned was right all along. They shouldn't

717
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 5: be resorting to all of this violence as a way

718
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 5: to win games. And this is Reggie's last game and

719
00:40:38,160 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 5: he's going to play it straight and try to win

720
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:46,399
Speaker 5: that championship honestly and legitimately. But this is when they're

721
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:49,960
Speaker 5: playing Syracuse and that team is ready for a bloodbath.

722
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 5: So the game starts and the Syracuse team are fighting,

723
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 5: but the Chiefs aren't fighting back, and they're losing. And

724
00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:03,279
Speaker 5: then it's not halftime, it's either after the first or

725
00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 5: second period. But they're like in the locker room and

726
00:41:09,520 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 5: their general manager Joe is like, hey, there's a bunch

727
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 5: of NHL scouts in the crowd, so you have to

728
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:21,200
Speaker 5: put on a good show for them, and Reggie's like, okay,

729
00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 5: forget everything I said. We're gonna play dirty, and then

730
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 5: we just like cut to everyone punching each other. Francine

731
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 5: and Lily show up to the game, and Braiden sees

732
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 5: his wife and he's.

733
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: Like, wow, this part is where this is where like

734
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: the whole Lily story falls apart from me, where I'm

735
00:41:42,920 --> 00:41:47,080
Speaker 1: like what happened here? So confused about what happens with

736
00:41:47,120 --> 00:41:47,840
Speaker 1: Lily's character.

737
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 5: Yeah, I don't know sure, and I also don't know

738
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,880
Speaker 5: exactly what prompts this. But Braiden goes out on the

739
00:41:56,080 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 5: ice while every sudden, well everyone's just punching each other

740
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 5: and not playing hockey even a little bit, and Brandon

741
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 5: starts doing a strip tease, and everyone in the crowd

742
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 5: and all the players are like tee wow, and for.

743
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,760
Speaker 1: Some reason this solves all of the problems in his marriage.

744
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:20,719
Speaker 1: You're just like, it's very cinematic, but you're just like,

745
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,080
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, but it's a very movie behavior.

746
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, and he does the strip tease and it somehow

747
00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 5: wins the game. I don't know if the other team forfits.

748
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:33,880
Speaker 1: I don't know what happens.

749
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:39,360
Speaker 6: I could tell you. Yeah, So, as as Ned is

750
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:42,040
Speaker 6: doing his strip tease, one of the players, one of

751
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 6: the it might be Tim McCracken, is furious and he's like,

752
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 6: you know, during the middle of this bloodbath, he starts

753
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,760
Speaker 6: to yell at the official like that's disgusting. Make him stop,

754
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 6: And the officials like, what do you mean it's disgusting?

755
00:42:56,120 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 6: Look at this, and they end up with an argument

756
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:01,840
Speaker 6: and McCracken or the you know, the hits the official.

757
00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 6: He is no matter how low the miners or whatever,

758
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,600
Speaker 6: you know, you can't hit an official. And he hit him,

759
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 6: and the officials says, that's it. The game's over. You forfeit,

760
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 6: you know, got it?

761
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:15,040
Speaker 5: Okay?

762
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: Okay, nice, okay.

763
00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 5: It reminds me of an airbud when they're like, there's

764
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:22,839
Speaker 5: nothing in the rule book that says a dog can't

765
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 5: play basketball. It's like, there's nothing in the rule book

766
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 5: that says a player can't come out and strip to

767
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 5: win the game.

768
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 1: Right, you can maybe get a penalty for it.

769
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 6: Play was stopped at the time, you know, it doesn't.

770
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 1: It's true, so he's basically just doing it. It's like

771
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 1: that that could have been the the ice sweepers, it

772
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 1: could have been, could have been anything, and and he

773
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: happened to do that.

774
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: I don't.

775
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I so the way that this movie it's so bizarre.

776
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 1: We were talking about it when we were watching it

777
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: a couple of nights ago, where it's like this movie

778
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: in the last half of it, like I'd be on

779
00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: board and then it would lose me for ten minutes.

780
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 1: I'd be back for a couple minutes, and then it

781
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 1: would lose me for ten minutes, and then I kind

782
00:44:03,480 --> 00:44:06,000
Speaker 1: of liked the ending and it was like I didn't

783
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:09,960
Speaker 1: see I don't like, well whatever, we're at the end, basically, yeah,

784
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: but like it lost me during this whole game, because

785
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: you're like, why does Ned stripping on ice solve the

786
00:44:18,239 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: issue of infidelity and them hating it each other? And

787
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 1: then it seems like, well whatever, Like I'm I didn't

788
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: dislike the scene between Lily and Francine, even though it

789
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,760
Speaker 1: was like whatever channeled into the idea and to a makeover.

790
00:44:35,160 --> 00:44:37,440
Speaker 1: I think you can make the argument that it was

791
00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,480
Speaker 1: like she was getting a makeover to feel better about herself.

792
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: It didn't seem like it was overtly for her husband

793
00:44:44,239 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: or for anyone except for herself.

794
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:48,800
Speaker 5: Because she had already left him by that point.

795
00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, it seemed like she was she was doing it

796
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: to feel more confident about herself. And I don't have

797
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 1: an issue with that, but it just seems like it's

798
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: like implied that something happens between Lily and Francine. Off

799
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: screw that leads, because I'm like, I don't even know

800
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: why they show up at that hockey game. It's confusing

801
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: to me because it seems like Lily or Francine's like

802
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,920
Speaker 1: getting Lily gassed up to like get out into the

803
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 1: world and start her life. Like whether that's dating or

804
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: moving or whatever, it is kind of unclear. But then

805
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: it's like, the next time we see them, they're at

806
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: the hockey game. You're like, when did you guys decide

807
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,840
Speaker 1: to go to the hockey game? Why? It seems like

808
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,279
Speaker 1: the opposite of what Lily was trying to do.

809
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 5: Right, they should have gone out to dinner.

810
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: They should have gone out to a singles bar.

811
00:45:31,400 --> 00:45:34,480
Speaker 5: Right, and then they could have started a book club together.

812
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,400
Speaker 5: You know, I don't know anyway, So we cut to

813
00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 5: a parade. The team I think has disbanded, but the

814
00:45:43,880 --> 00:45:47,440
Speaker 5: players seems like they're getting contracts to go play on

815
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 5: other teams. Reggie is going to go play in Minneapolis.

816
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,960
Speaker 5: He tries to get Francine to come with him, but

817
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,520
Speaker 5: she's like pass. But Lily and Branden do get back

818
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 5: together in an infuriating moment.

819
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: Everyone I've never been so split on different characters endings

820
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: where it's like I'm thrilled for Francine and I'm completely

821
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 1: confused by Lily.

822
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, but anyway, but everyone's celebrating at the parade, and

823
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 5: that's how the movie ends. So let's take another break.

824
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,759
Speaker 5: Second period periods over the big Is there a big

825
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 5: buzzer in hockey to like signify the end of a period?

826
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,120
Speaker 6: Well, I think it's a siren, you know.

827
00:46:32,239 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 5: Oh okay, so a woga will be right back. We're back,

828
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 5: and it's time for the third period.

829
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: And the third period can go on for a while.

830
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:53,960
Speaker 5: Mm hmm. There's no time limit.

831
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 1: If things are tight, you know, sometimes sometimes it just

832
00:46:57,320 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: keeps going.

833
00:46:57,880 --> 00:46:59,280
Speaker 5: Sometimes we go into overtime.

834
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:01,040
Speaker 6: Overtime, yeah, on the Bechdel cast.

835
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: Yes, oh oh that's exact. Okay, I wonder that's that's

836
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 1: when we do the are scoring.

837
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:10,399
Speaker 5: That's oh yeah, that's like the penalty shootout kind of thing.

838
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. So, Dad, I before we get into the full analysis,

839
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:21,040
Speaker 1: I'm curious, do you feel that the sport of hockey

840
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:25,360
Speaker 1: is Like does this feel authentic to because you, I

841
00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:28,080
Speaker 1: mean like we're reporting like on the road with teams

842
00:47:28,560 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 1: and reporting from locker rooms for decades. Does this movie

843
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: feel close for the era? Does it feel overblown and

844
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: movie fied? Like how does it square with your experience

845
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:42,440
Speaker 1: in this arena?

846
00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:46,200
Speaker 6: You know? Hey, you know, it's it's a good question.

847
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 6: I mean, I think, you know, when I watched that movie,

848
00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:54,440
Speaker 6: everything in it from the hockey standpoint is just an exaggeration.

849
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: You know.

850
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 6: It's like, you know, yes there is locker room talk,

851
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,120
Speaker 6: but some of the extent that these guys, you know, no,

852
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 6: I don't think I never heard the violence in games.

853
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:08,799
Speaker 1: You know.

854
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,719
Speaker 6: Yes, it's a very very physical game, and I would

855
00:48:11,719 --> 00:48:15,040
Speaker 6: say back in that era that was more of a factor,

856
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 6: that was more of a strategy than it is now.

857
00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 6: And also to the NHL, it's like any major sport,

858
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 6: people follow them. There's like the top level and then

859
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 6: there are different tiers in hockey, the lower that you go,

860
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 6: you know, you're probably not going to make it, you know,

861
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,959
Speaker 6: you might, you know, move up another level or two.

862
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:40,879
Speaker 6: So the crazier things, I guess, you know, would tend

863
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 6: to happen, you know, in the lower miners, smaller towns,

864
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:48,120
Speaker 6: you know, smaller franchises, things like that. I mean, and

865
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:51,239
Speaker 6: that's you know, that's kind of where the movie came from. Now.

866
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 6: Nancy Dowd's brother Ned.

867
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 1: Ncy the writer.

868
00:48:56,680 --> 00:49:00,840
Speaker 6: Yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, So her brother played college hockey

869
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 6: in Maine and then he played two years a low

870
00:49:04,280 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 6: minor professional hockey league, and he would he you know,

871
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 6: he would tell his sister's stories about the you know,

872
00:49:10,239 --> 00:49:14,000
Speaker 6: the things that happened, and thus the movie. You know,

873
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,640
Speaker 6: so a lot of it, there's a lot of things

874
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,279
Speaker 6: that are based on things that actually did happen. And

875
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 6: I think that, you know, for film purposes and everything,

876
00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:26,280
Speaker 6: you know, it's it's amplified and exaggerated.

877
00:49:26,840 --> 00:49:29,800
Speaker 1: That's something I mean, I guess that's like a place

878
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: that I would be down to start, is just talking

879
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:34,239
Speaker 1: a little bit about the behind the scenes process of

880
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 1: this movie, because I didn't I know that. I mean,

881
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: the one fact I knew about this movie other than

882
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: it's where the hands and brother's glasses comes from, is

883
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,360
Speaker 1: what my dad told me five thousand times, which is

884
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: that a woman wrote the movie. It was the fact

885
00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 1: that I knew, but I didn't know I actually really liked.

886
00:49:50,480 --> 00:49:52,320
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's like it I was like, oh,

887
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:56,720
Speaker 1: I kind of do stuff like that sometimes where Nancy down, Yeah,

888
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 1: like she heard that her brother was involved in this.

889
00:50:00,239 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 1: What was the name of the team that the Chiefs

890
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:03,200
Speaker 1: are based.

891
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:06,800
Speaker 6: On, The Johnstown Jets, Okay in Pennsylvania.

892
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:10,240
Speaker 1: So that was a team her brother was on. He called,

893
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: basically with the premise to slap shot that this you

894
00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,960
Speaker 1: know team was not going to be around for much longer,

895
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 1: and so she followed them around for a month, and

896
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 1: she like shadowed them and did basically like Gonzo's style,

897
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 1: following this minor league team around. And so a lot

898
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:29,920
Speaker 1: of what she saw went directly into the movie in

899
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,640
Speaker 1: the script, which I think you can argue works for

900
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: and against it because it's like if she's presenting in

901
00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: this the late seventies that authentically a lot of it

902
00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,880
Speaker 1: doesn't age well because it was, you know, almost fifty

903
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 1: years ago, but it does seem like that was sort

904
00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,359
Speaker 1: of her goal in writing it and what she was

905
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:52,000
Speaker 1: trying to present. And so I went back to the

906
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: way that this movie was originally covered because it was

907
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: like a hit, It was a box office success, people

908
00:50:57,520 --> 00:50:59,840
Speaker 1: liked it, Paul Newman was in it, and it was

909
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 1: also like I thought it was interesting that it was

910
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,439
Speaker 1: drawn attention to when the movie came out that these

911
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: were like, quote, I'm just trying to think if there's

912
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:09,680
Speaker 1: like a contemporary example of this where they were like

913
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: quote unquote, like respectable filmmakers making this raunchy comedy. Because

914
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,279
Speaker 1: the director of this movie, George roy Hill, like he

915
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:22,799
Speaker 1: directed Butch Cassidy, he'd done all of these like you know,

916
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:27,920
Speaker 1: really pristine, sensitive, thoughtful prestigie movies, and then later in

917
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:31,560
Speaker 1: his career makes this super super raunchy comedy. And then

918
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 1: you have Nancy Dowd who is from Framingham, Massachusetts, representing Massachusetts,

919
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,840
Speaker 1: but grew up you know, like a pretty like upper

920
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:45,839
Speaker 1: crusty Massachusetts life. She went to Smith College like she

921
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:49,359
Speaker 1: was like a no one and this was like her

922
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:52,439
Speaker 1: first success success. She went on after this. Two years

923
00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 1: after this, she won an oscar for a movie called

924
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,040
Speaker 1: Coming Home about Did you see that? Dad?

925
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 6: I did? Did you like it? It was? It was

926
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 6: a little challenging to believe. It's very serious. It was

927
00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 6: like a it was kind of like a Vietnam War movie, right,

928
00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:10,680
Speaker 6: and it's you know John Voyd.

929
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:16,440
Speaker 1: So well it works against it. Yeah, it's no national treasure,

930
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: but no, I.

931
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 6: Mean it's like speaking of but yeah, because John Boyd.

932
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: Is truly evil. Yeah, but but it felt like these

933
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:30,360
Speaker 1: prestigee stars, serious writers and directors making this really raunchy,

934
00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 1: goofy comedy. But it was also like my dad. The

935
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:38,279
Speaker 1: news talked a lot about how like a woman wrote

936
00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:41,360
Speaker 1: the movie in a different context at I'm not criticizing this,

937
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,560
Speaker 1: but I just like most of the coverage of Nancy

938
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:49,200
Speaker 1: Dawd at this time was like, it's the raunchiest comedy

939
00:52:49,320 --> 00:52:52,200
Speaker 1: of the year and a woa wall will woman wrote it,

940
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:56,160
Speaker 1: and like which, I think that we still see stuff

941
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 1: like that, and it's still like the majority of ron

942
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 1: Gi comedies that come out are not written by I

943
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:05,640
Speaker 1: don't think that there's really parody. I mean, there's not

944
00:53:05,719 --> 00:53:10,160
Speaker 1: parody in film in general, but I think, especially in

945
00:53:10,239 --> 00:53:14,600
Speaker 1: this genre, it still feels super male driven. I feel

946
00:53:14,600 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: like joy Ride is the only exception I can think

947
00:53:16,840 --> 00:53:22,000
Speaker 1: of this year. But I read some of the coverage

948
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: because I was like, well, how did Nancy Dowd kind

949
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 1: of feeld this? And I thought she was cool. I

950
00:53:27,560 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: thought she was really funny and really cool. She says

951
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,200
Speaker 1: this in a New York Times article from nineteen seventy seven.

952
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: This is how it's set up, set up obscenity hockey,

953
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,080
Speaker 1: A woman missed out. Has been meeting so many people

954
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:45,279
Speaker 1: lately who can't believe that she actually wrote this screenplay,

955
00:53:45,440 --> 00:53:48,760
Speaker 1: that she is beginning to lose her patients, and she says, quote,

956
00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:51,919
Speaker 1: the world has a weird view of women. People seem

957
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: to believe that we have to write about divorce or

958
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: suicide or children so called women's topics. But we've been

959
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 1: around women aren't sequestered any more, and kind of just

960
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: goes on to talk about how it reminds me of

961
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:07,960
Speaker 1: like how you still see a lot of women writers

962
00:54:07,960 --> 00:54:11,839
Speaker 1: being like, well, I wish this wasn't the story. Shut up,

963
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,480
Speaker 1: like watch the movie and like it or don't. But

964
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: this movie was, even in its time, considered to be

965
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 1: pretty sexist. I think Paul Newman called it honestly sexist,

966
00:54:22,880 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 1: which I think is an interesting way to come about it.

967
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,320
Speaker 1: And I think I think what he's trying to say,

968
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, let me know if either of you

969
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,280
Speaker 1: feel differently, is that it feels like it's more speaking

970
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,239
Speaker 1: to like how Nancy Dowd was not transcribing dialogue but

971
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:40,680
Speaker 1: like just sort of saying authentically how guys she was

972
00:54:40,719 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 1: hanging out with were talking and not sanitizing what they

973
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:45,759
Speaker 1: were saying. So it's like she was hanging out with

974
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:49,319
Speaker 1: sexist guys. The movie is honestly sexist because she's not like,

975
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, sugar making out more appealing.

976
00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:55,799
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you know I would say too that, you know,

977
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,840
Speaker 6: when it came out, you know, and I was whatever,

978
00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:03,240
Speaker 6: eighteen years old. I don't recall knowing that a woman

979
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:04,240
Speaker 6: wrote it at the time.

980
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:06,200
Speaker 1: I mean, we just you know, you should have been

981
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,359
Speaker 1: reading the New York Times, well they couldn't shut up

982
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: about it.

983
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 6: Reading the Brockton Enterprise, and hoping to one day work

984
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 6: for the Patriot Ledger. But we were just excited because

985
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:21,040
Speaker 6: there was a movie about hockey, you know, and it

986
00:55:21,120 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 6: was our thing. Really didn't take it that much farther.

987
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 6: You know. I was surprised when I like looked a

988
00:55:27,080 --> 00:55:29,880
Speaker 6: little bit more into it later on, you know, just

989
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 6: finding out like little little things about people who were

990
00:55:33,360 --> 00:55:36,719
Speaker 6: in the movie. You know that that got me to look,

991
00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:39,400
Speaker 6: you know, behind this, not behind the scenes, but behind

992
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:41,560
Speaker 6: the story. And it was like, you know, the only

993
00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 6: thing was like, oh, a woman wrote it. I guess,

994
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:48,040
Speaker 6: you know. My not reaction to that, But like the

995
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 6: way I I might come off that way is like

996
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,480
Speaker 6: like if her brother wrote the movie, it'd be like, oh, yeah,

997
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:58,160
Speaker 6: of course, you know, like all that dialogue, this and that,

998
00:55:58,280 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 6: and it just it just you know, it just wouldn't

999
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 6: have seemed you know, it's so raunchy. Like I'm not

1000
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:08,600
Speaker 6: saying like anybody can't be raunchy, but it's like you

1001
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 6: know that one character, you know, Kaylin you brought up

1002
00:56:10,719 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 6: Marris is like it's gross, you know, it's like it's hideous,

1003
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 6: like his h you know, I was saying to Jamie

1004
00:56:18,440 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 6: it was not like I never heard some of those

1005
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:26,080
Speaker 6: terms before, but like so so rare, you know, and

1006
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, I don't know. I guess in

1007
00:56:28,120 --> 00:56:32,439
Speaker 6: an office, you know, on a team, there's always that

1008
00:56:32,560 --> 00:56:36,080
Speaker 6: one person that you know takes it a little bit

1009
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:38,960
Speaker 6: farther or just like is extreme.

1010
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:39,759
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1011
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 6: And as I was as I was watching it the

1012
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,400
Speaker 6: other night, it was like I didn't catch, you know,

1013
00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 6: in my earlier viewings of it that a lot of

1014
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,040
Speaker 6: his teammates are kind of grossed out by him too,

1015
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 6: which is like, well, you know, thank God for that,

1016
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 6: you know.

1017
00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think it's well, we'll get into this,

1018
00:56:57,120 --> 00:57:00,880
Speaker 1: like I I don't know, it's I think that it

1019
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,440
Speaker 1: seems like her goal in writing the movie was like

1020
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:08,799
Speaker 1: writing obviously like a movie that people would like that

1021
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: was funny, but was also like authentic to what she'd experienced,

1022
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:14,600
Speaker 1: which I don't really have a problem with. I think

1023
00:57:14,640 --> 00:57:17,160
Speaker 1: it's more like, especially because this movie has been out

1024
00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: for almost, you know, fifty years now, like it's interesting

1025
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: watching like what parts of this movie are its legacy

1026
00:57:24,480 --> 00:57:26,560
Speaker 1: because I feel like the parts that I thought were

1027
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: interesting about the movie are not parts of the movie

1028
00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:31,920
Speaker 1: that are famous. And also that's like the writer has

1029
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:36,880
Speaker 1: no control over what becomes known about their work or not.

1030
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:39,840
Speaker 1: But it just I don't know. I just think it's

1031
00:57:40,080 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: there was more to this movie than I thought, but

1032
00:57:42,000 --> 00:57:45,720
Speaker 1: like the nuanced parts of it aren't what it's known for.

1033
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,480
Speaker 5: That Plus like, yeah, she was observing the team, and

1034
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:56,600
Speaker 5: who knows, like if she was like transcribing like stuff

1035
00:57:56,640 --> 00:57:59,080
Speaker 5: that they said and putting it into the script or

1036
00:57:59,160 --> 00:58:00,960
Speaker 5: if she was in Belle some of it, But it

1037
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 5: seems like for the most part she's like, well, the

1038
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:07,120
Speaker 5: way that Dicky Dunn just tries to capture the spirit

1039
00:58:07,160 --> 00:58:08,840
Speaker 5: of the thing, I'm.

1040
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 1: Guessing she's trying to do that.

1041
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,680
Speaker 5: Yes, Nancy Dowd was just trying to capture the spirit

1042
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 5: of the thing, and that seems like the spirit was

1043
00:58:16,640 --> 00:58:19,520
Speaker 5: a lot of like pretty losersh guys who are either

1044
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:24,120
Speaker 5: creepy or stockery, or they don't treat women well, et cetera.

1045
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:27,560
Speaker 5: That's just the vibe. Those were the vibes she was getting,

1046
00:58:27,600 --> 00:58:30,680
Speaker 5: so that's what she put on the page. My concern

1047
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:35,959
Speaker 5: is that a lot of it is presented uncritically and

1048
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:40,560
Speaker 5: or just framed, like Morris saying all of his gross

1049
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:43,920
Speaker 5: comments about women's bodies and stuff like that, is usually

1050
00:58:43,960 --> 00:58:46,440
Speaker 5: just framed as a joke like ha ha, look at

1051
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,040
Speaker 5: the look at the team creep. Isn't he funny? Aren't

1052
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:52,040
Speaker 5: we laughing at him? Yeah? So, but again it's like,

1053
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,480
Speaker 5: you know, it's the seventies. A lot of horrible things

1054
00:58:56,080 --> 00:58:59,840
Speaker 5: we're not presented critically. It was just this is what's normal,

1055
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:03,360
Speaker 5: and it's normal, so that's fine.

1056
00:59:03,600 --> 00:59:07,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know, it's movies of this era are always,

1057
00:59:08,520 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: I feel like, tricky in that way.

1058
00:59:10,920 --> 00:59:11,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1059
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:13,160
Speaker 1: Sorry. I have one more quote from her from this

1060
00:59:13,200 --> 00:59:15,800
Speaker 1: New York Times piece. The piece goes on she's generally

1061
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 1: frustrated that the movie was considered to have strong sexist overtones.

1062
00:59:19,920 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 1: This was something I was talked about in original reviews

1063
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:26,600
Speaker 1: of the movie, but she was annoyed with that. She said,

1064
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:28,920
Speaker 1: quote the only thing I thought twice about writing was

1065
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: making the team's rich, uncaring owner a woman. I worried

1066
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:34,960
Speaker 1: about people saying I had made a sexist statement, but

1067
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: I've seen that woman's attitude so many times. Quote I

1068
00:59:38,040 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: never let my children see a hockey game, unquote, So

1069
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,640
Speaker 1: it seems I mean, whatever she felt, she felt differently,

1070
00:59:44,360 --> 00:59:49,280
Speaker 1: And I don't know. It's like, I feel I respect

1071
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 1: what she's trying to do, and I also agree with

1072
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,720
Speaker 1: what you're saying. Gayalen is like it just depends on

1073
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:59,120
Speaker 1: like how your movie is received and how like I think,

1074
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,360
Speaker 1: if you're looking renuanced in this movie, you can find it,

1075
01:00:02,760 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 1: but because of the genre, you might not necessarily be

1076
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:06,640
Speaker 1: looking for it.

1077
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,080
Speaker 6: I don't know, you know, And I think too like that,

1078
01:00:09,200 --> 01:00:11,320
Speaker 6: you know, the fact that the owner is a woman,

1079
01:00:12,520 --> 01:00:14,760
Speaker 6: you know, as I was, you know, pitching this idea

1080
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,480
Speaker 6: to to Jamie, it's like, I don't think this will pass.

1081
01:00:18,560 --> 01:00:22,120
Speaker 6: I think this is like the worst possible. But she's

1082
01:00:22,160 --> 01:00:26,840
Speaker 6: she's you know, use the description rich uncaring. It's also

1083
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:32,480
Speaker 6: it's a she's a ruthless, bottom line business person, right,

1084
01:00:32,680 --> 01:00:36,400
Speaker 6: and like any guy would have done that, you know, Yeah,

1085
01:00:36,400 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 6: I mean, in the same you know, but so I don't.

1086
01:00:39,200 --> 01:00:41,920
Speaker 6: I don't know that you saw a lot of that

1087
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 6: back then where the I don't know, is it called

1088
01:00:45,360 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 6: girl boss. I don't want to step in anything here,

1089
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:48,440
Speaker 6: you know.

1090
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, you've seen my you've seen my show. I mean,

1091
01:00:51,200 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: I think it kind of I think that it does

1092
01:00:53,120 --> 01:00:55,320
Speaker 1: fall into that thing. I don't know. I think it's

1093
01:00:55,360 --> 01:00:57,680
Speaker 1: interesting that that was what was on her mind in

1094
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: seventy seven, because I that was one of the characters

1095
01:01:00,600 --> 01:01:04,560
Speaker 1: that I didn't think, really I didn't have an issue with.

1096
01:01:04,840 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: I had an issue with how reg treated her versus

1097
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,480
Speaker 1: like how she was portrayed, because it was like at

1098
01:01:09,480 --> 01:01:11,440
Speaker 1: that point for me, I don't know how you felt

1099
01:01:11,520 --> 01:01:13,040
Speaker 1: at this point in the movie, Caitlin, but it was

1100
01:01:13,080 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: like you had seen different kinds of women throughout this

1101
01:01:16,880 --> 01:01:20,120
Speaker 1: movie that It's like I feel like sometimes if there's

1102
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:23,440
Speaker 1: only one woman in the movie and she is like

1103
01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 1: a ruthless, cruel person, then it's like, well, I have

1104
01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,680
Speaker 1: no idea how this writer feels about women. This seems

1105
01:01:30,720 --> 01:01:34,120
Speaker 1: like how they're presenting all women. But because it's like

1106
01:01:34,160 --> 01:01:35,840
Speaker 1: this one character who comes up late in the movie,

1107
01:01:35,840 --> 01:01:40,360
Speaker 1: I feel like she represents more of a class thing

1108
01:01:40,600 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 1: than any sort of commentary on gender. And I was

1109
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,520
Speaker 1: fine with that, Like it's you know, she and reg

1110
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 1: and is seen both suck in very very different ways.

1111
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:55,080
Speaker 1: And yeah, that worked for me. I thought it was

1112
01:01:55,160 --> 01:01:57,560
Speaker 1: interesting that that was the thing that stuck with her

1113
01:01:57,560 --> 01:01:59,360
Speaker 1: because I think the thing that stuck with me really

1114
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:03,200
Speaker 1: was I agree, like there there's not any pushback on

1115
01:02:03,400 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: how men talk about women in this movie. I agree

1116
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,919
Speaker 1: with you Dad that like they're there. There were some

1117
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:11,640
Speaker 1: that you know, you would but you would have to

1118
01:02:11,720 --> 01:02:14,600
Speaker 1: kind of be looking for it of like someone being

1119
01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:18,000
Speaker 1: like Hugh because they do like the there. I think

1120
01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 1: that the character that is most clearly written in a

1121
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:23,480
Speaker 1: way that the movie is conscious of being sexist is

1122
01:02:23,840 --> 01:02:25,000
Speaker 1: I don't know, do you know what the name of

1123
01:02:25,040 --> 01:02:27,520
Speaker 1: that character is, Like the one that is who only

1124
01:02:27,560 --> 01:02:32,640
Speaker 1: says sexist Morris Morris. Yeah, Yeah, Morris's whole thing is

1125
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: that he views women as objects. And it's like that's

1126
01:02:36,520 --> 01:02:37,880
Speaker 1: the joke with this character.

1127
01:02:38,280 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 6: Yeah, And you know, and to go back to go

1128
01:02:40,200 --> 01:02:42,800
Speaker 6: back to the point that it's a two hour movie.

1129
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,640
Speaker 6: If you cut Marris out right, it becomes a it

1130
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:47,200
Speaker 6: could have been.

1131
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:50,240
Speaker 5: An easier movie to digest, for sure.

1132
01:02:50,680 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I mean, it doesn't really add anything. I

1133
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 6: don't think, you know, it's just it's like it, you

1134
01:02:57,080 --> 01:03:01,200
Speaker 6: know again, the scene with the owner and Paul Newman.

1135
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:04,760
Speaker 6: You know, as I think about it now, that's like

1136
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 6: Reg Dunlop, you know, the shoes on the other foot

1137
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:11,760
Speaker 6: now because you know, not because she's a woman, but

1138
01:03:11,800 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 6: she's the owner and she's telling them like, yeah, I

1139
01:03:14,640 --> 01:03:18,200
Speaker 6: could help you and your and your your players, but

1140
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,000
Speaker 6: you know, but there's nothing in it for me. There's

1141
01:03:20,040 --> 01:03:22,960
Speaker 6: no money in it for me. And when he says,

1142
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 6: you know, we're human beings, you know, that's maybe about

1143
01:03:26,440 --> 01:03:28,720
Speaker 6: as you know for all the other scenes where like

1144
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 6: he's sort of vulnerable and he wants you know, France

1145
01:03:31,080 --> 01:03:35,200
Speaker 6: scene back. You know, that was a it's a small scene,

1146
01:03:35,360 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 6: but that's probably you know, his most his most human

1147
01:03:39,440 --> 01:03:41,240
Speaker 6: vulnerable moment maybe, you.

1148
01:03:41,160 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 5: Know, And it could have been a much more effective

1149
01:03:45,560 --> 01:03:49,280
Speaker 5: just scene in general or commentary or whatever it's trying

1150
01:03:49,320 --> 01:03:52,840
Speaker 5: to do as far as like, yeah, rich people conduct

1151
01:03:53,040 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 5: and them not caring about human lives and only caring

1152
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:00,200
Speaker 5: about the bottom line. But then the scene ends with

1153
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:04,320
Speaker 5: him going on a homophobic tirade about her young son,

1154
01:04:05,000 --> 01:04:07,960
Speaker 5: and then it's just like, well, that undercuts everything that

1155
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,040
Speaker 5: could have been interesting about that scene.

1156
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:12,200
Speaker 6: Right, Caitlyn, as you said earlier, the scene where you know,

1157
01:04:12,680 --> 01:04:16,840
Speaker 6: he's with the opponent's wife, you know, I mean, you know,

1158
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:20,919
Speaker 6: she explains a very you know, personal thing to him,

1159
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:24,560
Speaker 6: and he seems to be listening and have some you know,

1160
01:04:24,720 --> 01:04:28,640
Speaker 6: respect and everything. But then you know, right two seconds

1161
01:04:28,720 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 6: later and that sets his character everything he can use

1162
01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:34,800
Speaker 6: he will use against others, you know.

1163
01:04:34,920 --> 01:04:38,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's that's something that I maybe, I mean,

1164
01:04:39,280 --> 01:04:41,280
Speaker 1: if it works for every I mean that maybe has

1165
01:04:41,320 --> 01:04:43,880
Speaker 1: a good opportunity to slip over to just read as

1166
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: a character. I wonder I'm trying to think I couldn't

1167
01:04:47,880 --> 01:04:50,160
Speaker 1: think of like a modern day analog for this character,

1168
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: because I do think that there is value in presenting

1169
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:59,040
Speaker 1: a character like this, who is you know, like I struggle,

1170
01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:04,080
Speaker 1: like a comp splicated guy, but someone who responds to

1171
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: insecurity by being hateful like that is I think something

1172
01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:12,520
Speaker 1: that exists in the world. It exists in a lot

1173
01:05:12,560 --> 01:05:15,040
Speaker 1: of men, but a lot of people, but mostly men

1174
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:18,680
Speaker 1: if we're being honest. But you know, in general, these

1175
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,120
Speaker 1: are people who exist in the world. I don't think

1176
01:05:21,120 --> 01:05:27,200
Speaker 1: it's off the table to present that, but presenting it

1177
01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,600
Speaker 1: as your movie star hero is a very difficult self

1178
01:05:30,600 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: for me because then it's like, I think that the

1179
01:05:33,000 --> 01:05:35,440
Speaker 1: element like Paul Newman, I think gives a good performance

1180
01:05:35,480 --> 01:05:38,720
Speaker 1: in this movie, but he's Paul Newman. You know, he's

1181
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,200
Speaker 1: like you're gonna love him because he's Paul Newman, and

1182
01:05:41,240 --> 01:05:44,480
Speaker 1: he's charismatic, and he's handsome, and even when he's saying

1183
01:05:44,600 --> 01:05:49,160
Speaker 1: horrible things, especially in the late seventies where people said

1184
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,760
Speaker 1: horrible things more openly than they currently do, Like, it's

1185
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:58,160
Speaker 1: just it's even if there is something to be said

1186
01:05:58,200 --> 01:06:01,400
Speaker 1: about presenting a character like this, I feel like the

1187
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:05,160
Speaker 1: combination of positioning it as your main character and your hero,

1188
01:06:05,640 --> 01:06:11,400
Speaker 1: and also like combining that with he doesn't really I mean,

1189
01:06:11,440 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: I guess like he doesn't get what he wants in

1190
01:06:14,240 --> 01:06:16,160
Speaker 1: the way that we see in some movies where like

1191
01:06:16,240 --> 01:06:18,800
Speaker 1: someone fucking sucks the whole movie and then for some

1192
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:20,919
Speaker 1: reason they get exactly what they want at the end.

1193
01:06:21,080 --> 01:06:23,320
Speaker 1: It's it's a mixed bag for reg at the end.

1194
01:06:23,840 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say he like he doesn't get his

1195
01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:31,360
Speaker 1: uh really, like he gets to continue to work in hockey,

1196
01:06:31,480 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: like he gets part of it. I think the main

1197
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:36,440
Speaker 1: thing he loses is the relationship that he very obviously

1198
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:39,280
Speaker 1: still wants, right and deservedly so, and not I think

1199
01:06:39,400 --> 01:06:41,560
Speaker 1: is one of the better done parts of the movie

1200
01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 1: for sure. But yeah, I don't know. I struggled with

1201
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: how his character was framed.

1202
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:52,160
Speaker 5: I don't know, especially because he learns nothing, he shows

1203
01:06:52,280 --> 01:06:55,400
Speaker 5: no growth, and even at the end when it seems like,

1204
01:06:55,960 --> 01:06:58,120
Speaker 5: you know what, I don't want to win this way

1205
01:06:58,160 --> 01:07:01,040
Speaker 5: by you know, pummeling the other team. I want to

1206
01:07:01,120 --> 01:07:05,080
Speaker 5: play hockey and win that way. And then as soon

1207
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 5: as he's like, oh, they're scouts here.

1208
01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:08,760
Speaker 1: And it's like never mind.

1209
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it's like okay, so you have absolutely no

1210
01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 5: code of ethics. That's interesting.

1211
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 6: And again, I mean, I don't know if we're supposed

1212
01:07:17,080 --> 01:07:19,800
Speaker 6: to be where we're supposed to be in the discussion.

1213
01:07:19,840 --> 01:07:22,200
Speaker 6: But you know, again, the more I thought about it,

1214
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:25,680
Speaker 6: I remember reading a piece several years ago about the

1215
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:28,520
Speaker 6: movie as you know, kind of a not a hockey

1216
01:07:28,560 --> 01:07:30,360
Speaker 6: movie or a good but like a sort of a

1217
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:37,280
Speaker 6: snapshot of America kind of at the time, late seventies,

1218
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:41,040
Speaker 6: and you know, I can't really remember what the economy

1219
01:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 6: was like, you know, but things, you know, longtime businesses.

1220
01:07:44,400 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 6: You know, longtime industries were really taking you know, a

1221
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:53,440
Speaker 6: hit back there, like the steel industry. And one of

1222
01:07:53,480 --> 01:07:55,919
Speaker 6: the things that kind of struck me watching it, it's

1223
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:58,640
Speaker 6: like with everybody depicted in there, even if they're not

1224
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,720
Speaker 6: characters in the movie, but like you know, the fans, right,

1225
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,920
Speaker 6: they're all looking at losing their jobs because they're you know,

1226
01:08:06,000 --> 01:08:10,080
Speaker 6: their jobs are going to disappear. And the players, will

1227
01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:12,480
Speaker 6: they get signed, you know, will the team fold? Will

1228
01:08:12,520 --> 01:08:14,640
Speaker 6: it you know, they were believing it would get sold.

1229
01:08:15,160 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 6: To me, there's like this low level desperation you know,

1230
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:24,160
Speaker 6: to survive on the on the parts of everyone there,

1231
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:27,599
Speaker 6: you know, and in the case of Paul Newman's you know,

1232
01:08:28,000 --> 01:08:32,720
Speaker 6: Paul Newman being the oldest one, being not really that successful,

1233
01:08:33,280 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 6: you know, I mean, whether this is you know him

1234
01:08:37,000 --> 01:08:39,720
Speaker 6: all the time or not, you know, he's he's kind

1235
01:08:39,720 --> 01:08:42,000
Speaker 6: of the worst one. He's like, I will I will

1236
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 6: do anything. I'll do whatever it takes, you know, to

1237
01:08:47,000 --> 01:08:50,880
Speaker 6: be able to continue my career someplace else or here.

1238
01:08:51,439 --> 01:08:54,120
Speaker 6: And if it has to do with you know, kind

1239
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:58,080
Speaker 6: of manipulating my players or manipulating people who are involved

1240
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:01,200
Speaker 6: my players, you know, means to an end pretty much

1241
01:09:01,520 --> 01:09:02,280
Speaker 6: all the way through.

1242
01:09:02,520 --> 01:09:05,880
Speaker 1: You know, I yeah, I the closest I can get

1243
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:14,160
Speaker 1: to rationalizing Regi's character. I read an essay, an academic essay.

1244
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:16,479
Speaker 1: I was on Google dot scholar dot com.

1245
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 5: Of course.

1246
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 1: Yes, this was published in athlon A E. T. H.

1247
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,880
Speaker 1: L O N. Eighth Lawn, The Journal of Sport Literature,

1248
01:09:25,000 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: Volume thirty seven, issue one, from twenty nineteen, written by

1249
01:09:28,800 --> 01:09:32,000
Speaker 1: John Source. So take everything he says with a grain AsSalt.

1250
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,719
Speaker 1: But I did really appreciate his retrospective view on this movie,

1251
01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:39,559
Speaker 1: and I think because it offered because he did a

1252
01:09:39,560 --> 01:09:44,200
Speaker 1: more class driven view of the men on this team,

1253
01:09:44,280 --> 01:09:46,880
Speaker 1: which I do think is a valuable way of looking

1254
01:09:46,960 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: at this movie. But he basically makes the argument that

1255
01:09:50,560 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 1: Reggi's character like doesn't shy away from the fact that

1256
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:57,559
Speaker 1: reg is a despicable character, and I do. I guess

1257
01:09:57,600 --> 01:10:01,040
Speaker 1: it's like we don't have nineteen seventies than goggles to

1258
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,840
Speaker 1: put on. And I wonder how clearly that read at

1259
01:10:04,880 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: the time. But I think that the argument that he

1260
01:10:08,760 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: makes that I think is interesting and kind of speaks

1261
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:14,080
Speaker 1: to like the parts of this movie that did work

1262
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: for me was that, you know, I think the setting

1263
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:21,640
Speaker 1: is very relevant here where they're like encapsulated in this

1264
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:26,720
Speaker 1: fictional steel town where jobs are falling left and right.

1265
01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: There's this huge sense of insecurity about the future, and

1266
01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:33,759
Speaker 1: you see in these men on the team a level

1267
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:37,559
Speaker 1: of like people acting desperately when their future is insecure.

1268
01:10:37,600 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: And I think reg is a really extreme, kind of

1269
01:10:41,520 --> 01:10:45,559
Speaker 1: like monstrous version of that, where he is so desperate

1270
01:10:45,600 --> 01:10:48,360
Speaker 1: to preserve what he wants for his version of the

1271
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:53,000
Speaker 1: future that he will undercut almost anyone in his life,

1272
01:10:53,080 --> 01:10:55,439
Speaker 1: even if he likes and respects them. He is not

1273
01:10:55,640 --> 01:11:00,760
Speaker 1: above completely selling them out in order to present the

1274
01:11:00,800 --> 01:11:05,640
Speaker 1: future that he feels entitled to. And John Stores kind

1275
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:10,160
Speaker 1: of makes the argument that this movie illustrates, well, I

1276
01:11:10,160 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: guess something that is historically true. I didn't know this.

1277
01:11:12,840 --> 01:11:15,720
Speaker 1: I was delighted to learn it that in times of

1278
01:11:16,520 --> 01:11:22,000
Speaker 1: economic insecurity and in recessions and depressions, women are like

1279
01:11:22,080 --> 01:11:28,439
Speaker 1: statistically more likely to move with the time, and men

1280
01:11:28,520 --> 01:11:31,559
Speaker 1: are more likely to cling to how things were and

1281
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:36,360
Speaker 1: be unwilling to change their situation. They're less likely to

1282
01:11:36,400 --> 01:11:38,839
Speaker 1: want to move, they're less likely to want to switch professions.

1283
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:40,800
Speaker 1: They're less likely to want to change the way that

1284
01:11:40,840 --> 01:11:43,800
Speaker 1: their day to day life is versus women are far

1285
01:11:43,840 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: more likely to be I guess, like just kind of

1286
01:11:46,360 --> 01:11:49,719
Speaker 1: more realistic about what's happening, yea.

1287
01:11:50,000 --> 01:11:51,000
Speaker 5: More adaptable.

1288
01:11:51,200 --> 01:11:53,320
Speaker 6: You know, there's a line in the movie and in

1289
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:56,799
Speaker 6: the scene where you know, redgch and his opponent's wife

1290
01:11:57,439 --> 01:12:00,639
Speaker 6: are in bed, and it closes with I think he's

1291
01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:03,280
Speaker 6: telling her, you know, the team's going to fold or

1292
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 6: the team you know, I don't know what I'm going

1293
01:12:04,880 --> 01:12:08,479
Speaker 6: to do, and she says to him, you know, just

1294
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 6: just use your imagination. That's what I've been doing. So

1295
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 6: it's you know, and I think he uses that line

1296
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 6: himself later on ye on somebody else, but you know.

1297
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 1: But he's still I mean, but I think that that's

1298
01:12:19,960 --> 01:12:23,200
Speaker 1: part of like what is frustrating about the men in

1299
01:12:23,240 --> 01:12:26,400
Speaker 1: this movie for me is like they even at the end,

1300
01:12:26,600 --> 01:12:28,439
Speaker 1: and I think the movie is conscious of this, Like

1301
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,200
Speaker 1: reg has not really changed because his last line is

1302
01:12:32,280 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: him lying about whether his wife is leaving him or not,

1303
01:12:35,240 --> 01:12:37,479
Speaker 1: because you know, Lily is like, oh, is she coming

1304
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,280
Speaker 1: and he's like yeah, and we know she's not, and

1305
01:12:41,320 --> 01:12:43,920
Speaker 1: it's like this it's kind of like a I think

1306
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:46,080
Speaker 1: viewed a certain way, and this is not the way

1307
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:48,479
Speaker 1: that this character is regarded in pop culture. But I

1308
01:12:48,560 --> 01:12:50,519
Speaker 1: liked looking at it that way of like, this guy

1309
01:12:50,600 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: is kind of tragic. He can't accept that things are

1310
01:12:53,520 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 1: changing and that his life is changing, and that is

1311
01:12:58,040 --> 01:13:00,439
Speaker 1: something that I think is like very relatable and everyone

1312
01:13:00,439 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: has experienced that to some degree. And also it's like

1313
01:13:04,840 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 1: if you whatever, because we as the audience know that

1314
01:13:08,400 --> 01:13:13,120
Speaker 1: he is just like really committed to having the upper

1315
01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,000
Speaker 1: hand in his life in a way that's impossible, and

1316
01:13:16,479 --> 01:13:19,280
Speaker 1: I just thought it was interesting. But yeah, I think

1317
01:13:19,320 --> 01:13:22,240
Speaker 1: that viewed from that sort of perspective, the men in

1318
01:13:22,439 --> 01:13:28,200
Speaker 1: this movie are not flexible. They are completely inflexible and

1319
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,800
Speaker 1: they refuse to accept a future that is uncomfortable to them.

1320
01:13:31,200 --> 01:13:34,599
Speaker 1: And the women in this movie are not like that.

1321
01:13:34,680 --> 01:13:38,080
Speaker 1: They will I mean, I think that the well, and

1322
01:13:38,120 --> 01:13:41,519
Speaker 1: we'll talk about really shortly because it's like her character

1323
01:13:41,560 --> 01:13:44,000
Speaker 1: is so frustrating because I feel like she was inconsistent

1324
01:13:44,080 --> 01:13:49,839
Speaker 1: with this. But with the characters of Suzanne, who is

1325
01:13:49,880 --> 01:13:56,080
Speaker 1: Suzanne Hanrahan, I'm assuming, and Francine, they are both women

1326
01:13:56,120 --> 01:14:01,040
Speaker 1: who are like, look, I was either uncomfortable safe, and

1327
01:14:01,120 --> 01:14:02,800
Speaker 1: so I got the fuck out and I moved on

1328
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:06,479
Speaker 1: with my life. And that's like, that's what you have

1329
01:14:06,560 --> 01:14:10,000
Speaker 1: to do to survive. And I think it's especially effective

1330
01:14:10,000 --> 01:14:14,240
Speaker 1: with Francine because she knows that she's right to leave him.

1331
01:14:14,280 --> 01:14:16,559
Speaker 1: I honestly was I thought that the movie would end

1332
01:14:16,560 --> 01:14:18,519
Speaker 1: with them getting back together, and I was so thrilled

1333
01:14:18,520 --> 01:14:21,000
Speaker 1: that it didn't. Absolutely, it feels like a good fake out.

1334
01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, she turns her car around and joins the parade. Yeah,

1335
01:14:25,479 --> 01:14:27,760
Speaker 6: I mean, and that was you know again, that was

1336
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:29,880
Speaker 6: a thing that sort of struck me about the movie.

1337
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:32,880
Speaker 6: You know, you know a lot of other movies, that's

1338
01:14:32,920 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 6: what would have happened. You know, they would have gotten

1339
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:36,240
Speaker 6: together at the end.

1340
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,800
Speaker 5: You know, she would have been like, wow, you won

1341
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:44,400
Speaker 5: the trophy at the championship game. Well here's me another trophy.

1342
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:46,240
Speaker 1: Trophy.

1343
01:14:46,640 --> 01:14:49,959
Speaker 6: Well, you know happy endings and movies, right, that's.

1344
01:14:49,760 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 5: The Hollywood does love a happy ending.

1345
01:14:54,320 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 1: But the last shot of this movie is her driving

1346
01:14:57,280 --> 01:14:59,760
Speaker 1: any other direction, and I feel like that's great. That

1347
01:14:59,840 --> 01:15:02,760
Speaker 1: was my favorite sort of thread in the movie is

1348
01:15:02,880 --> 01:15:05,880
Speaker 1: I felt like, because of the time, and I mean

1349
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,559
Speaker 1: this still happens in movies, that they would somehow end

1350
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 1: up reconciling. When she showed up at the game at

1351
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:14,639
Speaker 1: the end, I'm like, well, that's curtains on Franccene, she's

1352
01:15:14,640 --> 01:15:18,479
Speaker 1: gonna be fucked over, but rewatching it again knowing that

1353
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,800
Speaker 1: she leaves. It's even kind of like cooler. Yeah, she

1354
01:15:21,960 --> 01:15:26,559
Speaker 1: was my favorite character because she consistently like she has

1355
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,479
Speaker 1: affection for her ex husband but also like doesn't want

1356
01:15:30,520 --> 01:15:33,120
Speaker 1: to get back together. And I think like in their interactions,

1357
01:15:33,160 --> 01:15:36,559
Speaker 1: it was really interesting because Paul Newman's character is constantly

1358
01:15:36,600 --> 01:15:39,920
Speaker 1: trying to like manufacture a need that she would have

1359
01:15:40,000 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: for him, where he's he's constantly like, well, if you

1360
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,240
Speaker 1: need money, you can call me, and she's like, I

1361
01:15:44,320 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 1: don't bat like you know, she doesn't need him, and

1362
01:15:46,840 --> 01:15:50,840
Speaker 1: he can't, like he knows that at his core because

1363
01:15:50,880 --> 01:15:52,680
Speaker 1: he says it behind her back. He never says it

1364
01:15:52,720 --> 01:15:55,280
Speaker 1: to her face, but he says behind her back, like, oh, yeah,

1365
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:57,880
Speaker 1: since my wife broke up with me, her life has

1366
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 1: been way better, Like he says that to Lily, So

1367
01:16:01,080 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 1: it's like he knows it, but he can't really admit it.

1368
01:16:03,360 --> 01:16:06,680
Speaker 1: And it's just it felt like an interesting, like complicated

1369
01:16:06,720 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 1: relationship dynamic that feels like something that happens in the

1370
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:14,280
Speaker 1: real world. And I just like that specific subplot I

1371
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: think kind of worked for me. Especially because Francine was like,

1372
01:16:18,360 --> 01:16:21,439
Speaker 1: you know, touched that he seemed to recognize that when

1373
01:16:21,479 --> 01:16:25,040
Speaker 1: she heard it from a third party. But he's right,

1374
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 1: and she wants to move on with her life and

1375
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,120
Speaker 1: she does, and I thought that that was cool. Yes,

1376
01:16:30,520 --> 01:16:35,720
Speaker 1: But for some reason, that same nuance in generosity is

1377
01:16:35,760 --> 01:16:40,839
Speaker 1: not extended to Lily, which I found to be so weird.

1378
01:16:41,360 --> 01:16:43,800
Speaker 1: I'm like, was that a studio note, like two women

1379
01:16:43,840 --> 01:16:46,360
Speaker 1: can't leave their husbands? It can just be the one

1380
01:16:46,640 --> 01:16:50,160
Speaker 1: like what happened there? Because Lily, I think again, it's

1381
01:16:50,680 --> 01:16:54,000
Speaker 1: set up in an interesting way, but then it kind

1382
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:56,040
Speaker 1: of goes away by the ant of the movie.

1383
01:16:55,960 --> 01:17:00,280
Speaker 5: Right, it seems like she's being set up to that

1384
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:05,920
Speaker 5: her arc will be, like she's mustering up the courage

1385
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:09,559
Speaker 5: to actually leave her husband, which is something that she

1386
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:13,080
Speaker 5: seems to want to do for a while. She's like

1387
01:17:13,760 --> 01:17:17,519
Speaker 5: very vocal about how miserable she is in this town.

1388
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 5: She seems very miserable in the relationship. She's watching her

1389
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:28,840
Speaker 5: husband flirting with other women, and she eventually I don't

1390
01:17:28,840 --> 01:17:31,559
Speaker 5: know if there's some catalysts that gets her to finally

1391
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:34,400
Speaker 5: leave him or if it just kind of happens. But

1392
01:17:34,479 --> 01:17:38,000
Speaker 5: one day she shows up on. Also the fact that

1393
01:17:38,040 --> 01:17:41,599
Speaker 5: she goes to Reggie. I guess he's the only person

1394
01:17:41,680 --> 01:17:46,000
Speaker 5: who has like extended any kind of olive Brancher or anything.

1395
01:17:46,439 --> 01:17:47,960
Speaker 1: I sort of found that to be an act of

1396
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:51,640
Speaker 1: desperation because we've seen her fail to make friends and

1397
01:17:51,680 --> 01:17:56,559
Speaker 1: connections inside of this small world that she's been forced into.

1398
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:58,760
Speaker 5: Kind of right, because we see her hang out with

1399
01:17:58,880 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 5: other hockey wives for lack of a better term.

1400
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:05,920
Speaker 1: Who to be fair, and I think this is like

1401
01:18:05,960 --> 01:18:09,160
Speaker 1: a class thing where she and her husband ned because

1402
01:18:09,160 --> 01:18:11,680
Speaker 1: they're like from you know, well to do families, and

1403
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 1: they're both college educated. She is positioned as like smarter, hotter,

1404
01:18:17,160 --> 01:18:20,160
Speaker 1: better than the other hockey wives, which didn't feel fair.

1405
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:24,400
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, and she's not able to connect with them.

1406
01:18:24,520 --> 01:18:27,679
Speaker 5: So anyway, she leaves Bryden for a while and goes

1407
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 5: to Reggie and she's like I'm moving in, I guess,

1408
01:18:32,920 --> 01:18:37,440
Speaker 5: and then he takes her. He introduces her to Francine,

1409
01:18:37,840 --> 01:18:40,000
Speaker 5: and what I would have liked to have happened was

1410
01:18:40,800 --> 01:18:43,360
Speaker 5: they become friends. They have a lot of common ground,

1411
01:18:43,760 --> 01:18:44,759
Speaker 5: you know, they're both.

1412
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,479
Speaker 1: Which is like established, and the one scene they have together,

1413
01:18:47,600 --> 01:18:48,200
Speaker 1: it's like.

1414
01:18:48,200 --> 01:18:50,439
Speaker 5: Right, like there's a lot to learn for sure, like

1415
01:18:50,479 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 5: there are neither like current or former relationships with hockey

1416
01:18:54,400 --> 01:18:58,040
Speaker 5: players who don't know how to treat women well at all,

1417
01:18:58,760 --> 01:19:01,160
Speaker 5: and the women are sick of it. And I thought

1418
01:19:01,240 --> 01:19:07,719
Speaker 5: it was gonna be a situation where Franccene empowers Lily

1419
01:19:07,880 --> 01:19:11,000
Speaker 5: to like, you know, strike out on her own, because there's.

1420
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,479
Speaker 1: Which it's like, I well, but that's what was so confusing,

1421
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,640
Speaker 1: because it felt like, you know, you can. I don't know,

1422
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:20,719
Speaker 1: like the makeover thing didn't bother me at all really

1423
01:19:20,800 --> 01:19:23,200
Speaker 1: because it's also like we're seeing Susanne or no, sorry,

1424
01:19:23,240 --> 01:19:27,120
Speaker 1: we're seeing Francine at her job. So okay. I think

1425
01:19:27,160 --> 01:19:30,240
Speaker 1: a lesser movie would have reg be like we gotta

1426
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:32,880
Speaker 1: make this girl over and you know, but like Reg

1427
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:36,800
Speaker 1: right there and Francine and like whatever, it's a dated

1428
01:19:36,840 --> 01:19:38,840
Speaker 1: way of doing it. But I was like, okay, but

1429
01:19:38,880 --> 01:19:41,040
Speaker 1: then when but then when they go to the hockey game,

1430
01:19:41,160 --> 01:19:44,400
Speaker 1: like what happened? Because I really liked that conversation where

1431
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 1: Lily is and again it's like in the context of

1432
01:19:47,760 --> 01:19:51,800
Speaker 1: like what I mean, we're well into second wave feminism

1433
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 1: by the late seventies, but leaving your husband in the

1434
01:19:54,760 --> 01:19:59,920
Speaker 1: late seventies is different. Than currently, right, and there are

1435
01:20:00,080 --> 01:20:04,200
Speaker 1: different dynamics to that, and so I understand why, like

1436
01:20:04,520 --> 01:20:07,719
Speaker 1: Lily is nervous about it. It's a nerve wracking experience

1437
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:10,080
Speaker 1: to leave your spouse, no matter what year is happening in.

1438
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:14,839
Speaker 1: But I liked how Francine like she said, it's lousy

1439
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:17,040
Speaker 1: at first you think you're dying, but then it's fabulous.

1440
01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:18,760
Speaker 1: You become a new woman and you're like, this is

1441
01:20:18,760 --> 01:20:22,000
Speaker 1: such an interesting dynamic to set up, but then it

1442
01:20:22,040 --> 01:20:24,200
Speaker 1: just goes nowhere, it goes back nowhere.

1443
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:27,360
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, and the interesting you know Caitlyn too, I mean,

1444
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:28,599
Speaker 6: like and Jamie.

1445
01:20:29,600 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, uh.

1446
01:20:32,280 --> 01:20:38,400
Speaker 6: That's your name, right, Yeah, I agree. Like Lily, you know,

1447
01:20:38,479 --> 01:20:42,640
Speaker 6: that whole character sort of confuses me because you know,

1448
01:20:42,920 --> 01:20:45,360
Speaker 6: she makes very clear she doesn't like that life. They

1449
01:20:45,360 --> 01:20:49,120
Speaker 6: could go back to, you know, something easier with money,

1450
01:20:49,760 --> 01:20:55,599
Speaker 6: and she leaves her husband but stays in the life,

1451
01:20:56,160 --> 01:20:58,800
Speaker 6: you know, she stays in the town. She goes to

1452
01:20:58,880 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 6: another hockey person, you know.

1453
01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:04,320
Speaker 1: So it's like, I do wonder, I mean, but I wondered,

1454
01:21:04,360 --> 01:21:07,280
Speaker 1: like if that was just like temporary and then she

1455
01:21:07,520 --> 01:21:09,640
Speaker 1: because it was like, I mean, I guess it took Franccene.

1456
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:12,240
Speaker 1: We don't know how long she and REGI been separated,

1457
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:15,640
Speaker 1: or how long Francine had to save or whatever it

1458
01:21:15,640 --> 01:21:18,120
Speaker 1: would take for her to start her restart her life

1459
01:21:18,120 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 1: somewhere else.

1460
01:21:19,280 --> 01:21:20,320
Speaker 5: But it's I don't know.

1461
01:21:20,400 --> 01:21:24,040
Speaker 1: It seems like the movie was setting us up for like, oh,

1462
01:21:24,320 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 1: Francine could inspire or give Lily the confidence to do

1463
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 1: something similar.

1464
01:21:30,120 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 6: Yes, coach, I agree, like I empower her coachure so

1465
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:36,800
Speaker 6: that that part was a little bit hard not to

1466
01:21:37,040 --> 01:21:39,200
Speaker 6: just off it. It was like, oh, I didn't think

1467
01:21:39,560 --> 01:21:41,920
Speaker 6: that was going to be the result of this, you.

1468
01:21:41,880 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 1: Know, right, because then it's like Ned, Ned does not

1469
01:21:45,320 --> 01:21:48,519
Speaker 1: change at all. I know that, like symbolically him doing

1470
01:21:48,560 --> 01:21:51,600
Speaker 1: the strip tease is supposed to mean something, but it

1471
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:54,320
Speaker 1: just like that did nothing for me at all. I

1472
01:21:54,360 --> 01:21:56,680
Speaker 1: found his character frustrating throughout. I mean, as you know that,

1473
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:58,920
Speaker 1: I just like did not take to that character at all.

1474
01:21:58,960 --> 01:22:02,120
Speaker 1: I didn't like him. I thought he was both snobby

1475
01:22:02,360 --> 01:22:06,000
Speaker 1: and exactly all of the things that he claimed that

1476
01:22:06,120 --> 01:22:09,960
Speaker 1: he was above. Like I just I just didn't. I

1477
01:22:09,960 --> 01:22:12,720
Speaker 1: thought he's like such a snotty little asshole who is

1478
01:22:13,080 --> 01:22:16,360
Speaker 1: horrible to his wife. I didn't know how to communicate

1479
01:22:16,360 --> 01:22:20,160
Speaker 1: with her. Again, A legitimate relationship dynamic to explore, but

1480
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:22,120
Speaker 1: like I felt like at the end, he's like, now

1481
01:22:22,280 --> 01:22:24,280
Speaker 1: I got my wife back and she's got this cool

1482
01:22:24,320 --> 01:22:26,720
Speaker 1: new makeover, and it's like, but you did nothing, You

1483
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:29,800
Speaker 1: did nothing. And the last thing he did before he

1484
01:22:29,840 --> 01:22:34,040
Speaker 1: did his weird little routine that I didn't like, was

1485
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:37,600
Speaker 1: like talk shit about her on the radio. And I

1486
01:22:37,680 --> 01:22:40,000
Speaker 1: was like, is ay, I'm going to tell her about that, Say,

1487
01:22:40,040 --> 01:22:43,200
Speaker 1: we're gonna tell her that he called her a hot

1488
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,719
Speaker 1: piece of ass who's an alcoholic that hates him on

1489
01:22:46,040 --> 01:22:49,800
Speaker 1: the radio, because I would not be thrilled to hear

1490
01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:51,720
Speaker 1: my spouse saying shit like that.

1491
01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:54,880
Speaker 5: True, But then I'd be like, but he's exactly right.

1492
01:22:55,040 --> 01:22:56,760
Speaker 5: I am a hot who.

1493
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:01,880
Speaker 1: And I'd stop drinking if I if I just left him.

1494
01:23:02,200 --> 01:23:05,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah. I mean when fran Scene and Lily show

1495
01:23:05,600 --> 01:23:08,160
Speaker 5: up to the game at the end, one of them says,

1496
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:12,000
Speaker 5: what am I even doing here? And I'm like, yeah, your.

1497
01:23:11,920 --> 01:23:14,680
Speaker 1: Question, what are you even doing there? I wish that

1498
01:23:14,760 --> 01:23:15,559
Speaker 1: I knew the answer.

1499
01:23:16,640 --> 01:23:19,640
Speaker 6: Well, I think if if Lily wanted to go to

1500
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,639
Speaker 6: that last game, she did not really have a lot

1501
01:23:22,680 --> 01:23:25,960
Speaker 6: of friends among the other wives. True, you know, so

1502
01:23:26,479 --> 01:23:29,240
Speaker 6: you know, like as an ally maybe and there is

1503
01:23:29,280 --> 01:23:31,720
Speaker 6: another scene and you know, you know, we've talked mainly

1504
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,760
Speaker 6: about the same two three women, but there are some

1505
01:23:35,800 --> 01:23:37,880
Speaker 6: scenes with the other wise. Like there's a scene where

1506
01:23:37,920 --> 01:23:39,960
Speaker 6: the wives are all in their car waiting for their

1507
01:23:40,080 --> 01:23:42,600
Speaker 6: husbands to get home from a bus trip, and I

1508
01:23:42,880 --> 01:23:45,560
Speaker 6: thought it's a sort of a sad scene, but in

1509
01:23:45,640 --> 01:23:48,360
Speaker 6: the in the same way, they kind of like have

1510
01:23:48,479 --> 01:23:51,679
Speaker 6: to kind of you know, form their own little group

1511
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 6: and rally around each other and support each other because

1512
01:23:54,400 --> 01:23:58,120
Speaker 6: they clearly are not, you know, too psyched with with

1513
01:23:58,160 --> 01:24:00,960
Speaker 6: the life either. And there you know what their husbands

1514
01:24:01,000 --> 01:24:03,479
Speaker 6: are doing, and you know that they're gone and this

1515
01:24:03,520 --> 01:24:03,800
Speaker 6: and that.

1516
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:08,800
Speaker 5: I wish, since this is mostly an ensemble cast, you know,

1517
01:24:08,840 --> 01:24:11,600
Speaker 5: you've got Paul Newman as like the main character, but

1518
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:15,800
Speaker 5: you've got a lot of little subplots with various other characters,

1519
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:20,000
Speaker 5: that there was more focus on the wives of these

1520
01:24:20,120 --> 01:24:26,560
Speaker 5: hockey players, because to me, they're in more interesting situations

1521
01:24:26,600 --> 01:24:30,400
Speaker 5: than especially because so many of the men are characterised

1522
01:24:30,479 --> 01:24:34,760
Speaker 5: as either just being like hot headed or trying to

1523
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:40,000
Speaker 5: prove something about their masculinity, or their sleezy creeps or

1524
01:24:40,000 --> 01:24:42,840
Speaker 5: their wildly homophobic you know, all of this stuff that

1525
01:24:42,920 --> 01:24:46,519
Speaker 5: I don't want to see. And then the women are

1526
01:24:46,880 --> 01:24:50,200
Speaker 5: in this position of you know, it's a time where

1527
01:24:50,800 --> 01:24:54,679
Speaker 5: a lot of people in like hetero couples, the women

1528
01:24:54,680 --> 01:25:00,240
Speaker 5: were still relying on their husbands for sustainable like for

1529
01:25:00,760 --> 01:25:05,080
Speaker 5: his income, and women in the workplace were not as

1530
01:25:05,120 --> 01:25:07,920
Speaker 5: welcome as they are today. So it was hard to

1531
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 5: be a single woman or to be, you know, someone

1532
01:25:11,360 --> 01:25:14,920
Speaker 5: earning your own way as a woman at that time.

1533
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 5: And so they're relying on these men who are not

1534
01:25:20,320 --> 01:25:23,840
Speaker 5: treating them well at all. But it's also very like

1535
01:25:24,640 --> 01:25:30,680
Speaker 5: normalized culturally, but they still are like heavily drinking about it.

1536
01:25:30,720 --> 01:25:31,719
Speaker 5: There's a scene where.

1537
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:34,880
Speaker 1: I will actually I liked the scene. I think you're

1538
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:39,200
Speaker 1: gonna reference because I yeah, it's I'm trying to like

1539
01:25:39,600 --> 01:25:41,680
Speaker 1: put this through because it's like, it's not like there

1540
01:25:41,720 --> 01:25:45,919
Speaker 1: were not movies that had women protagonists in the seventies,

1541
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:47,720
Speaker 1: but in sports movies, I know that that was I

1542
01:25:48,040 --> 01:25:51,840
Speaker 1: feel like, I don't know, I feel like I feel

1543
01:25:51,840 --> 01:25:53,960
Speaker 1: a little defensive of Nancy Dad because I will say

1544
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:59,360
Speaker 1: I do think that in this movie, the men, with

1545
01:25:59,479 --> 01:26:03,040
Speaker 1: the exception of reg who at least you see a

1546
01:26:03,040 --> 01:26:05,479
Speaker 1: few layers of even though I kind of dislike all

1547
01:26:05,520 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: of them, but you do see different layers of this character,

1548
01:26:08,360 --> 01:26:10,600
Speaker 1: so there's like nuance and how he's written. But I

1549
01:26:10,600 --> 01:26:14,519
Speaker 1: think that the women that are presented far more broadly

1550
01:26:14,560 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 1: than the men are, because most of the hockey team,

1551
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,519
Speaker 1: except for like Ned and reg are like just like,

1552
01:26:21,760 --> 01:26:24,240
Speaker 1: here's this guy, and this is what he does and

1553
01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 1: how he reacts. Like here's a sexist guy, here's a

1554
01:26:27,000 --> 01:26:30,040
Speaker 1: violent guy, here's a homophobic guy. And you're like, there's

1555
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:32,920
Speaker 1: all these guys and they're written in the very, very

1556
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:38,200
Speaker 1: broad way that men in raunchy comedies are, which is

1557
01:26:38,320 --> 01:26:40,960
Speaker 1: kind of why I don't like the genre. But I

1558
01:26:41,000 --> 01:26:43,280
Speaker 1: will say that, like, I mean, I even think back

1559
01:26:43,320 --> 01:26:46,120
Speaker 1: to like raunchy comedies that came out when we were

1560
01:26:46,720 --> 01:26:49,639
Speaker 1: the target audience, and I'm thinking like early hangover movies

1561
01:26:49,680 --> 01:26:52,040
Speaker 1: and like John Appatown movies and shit like that, and

1562
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: I feel like in this movie you get women, like

1563
01:26:56,040 --> 01:27:01,479
Speaker 1: more different kinds of women then you did, like thirty

1564
01:27:01,560 --> 01:27:04,920
Speaker 1: years later in some cases. But I think the hockey

1565
01:27:04,920 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 1: wives are the most broadly written women that appear in

1566
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 1: the movie. And I didn't love that because I feel

1567
01:27:10,320 --> 01:27:12,160
Speaker 1: like it in the same way that I didn't like

1568
01:27:12,200 --> 01:27:15,040
Speaker 1: when Ned was like a snotty like I went to

1569
01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 1: whatever fucking school he went to, and so I'm better

1570
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 1: than most of the guys on this team. Like it's

1571
01:27:22,240 --> 01:27:24,719
Speaker 1: just like a moral superiority. And Lily kind of takes

1572
01:27:24,760 --> 01:27:27,320
Speaker 1: that into how she treats the hockey wives, where I

1573
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:29,840
Speaker 1: think she treats them kind of as like bimbos who

1574
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:32,240
Speaker 1: aren't as smart as her, and it seems like that

1575
01:27:32,400 --> 01:27:34,639
Speaker 1: is a part of the reason that she doesn't hang

1576
01:27:34,640 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: out with them, because it seems like the other hockey wives,

1577
01:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,560
Speaker 1: who I don't know if we get names for them,

1578
01:27:40,840 --> 01:27:43,479
Speaker 1: they seem like they I mean, they have a lot

1579
01:27:43,479 --> 01:27:45,519
Speaker 1: in common. A lot of what they have in common sucks.

1580
01:27:45,720 --> 01:27:49,160
Speaker 1: Is like they are sort of along for the ride

1581
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:54,640
Speaker 1: of their husband's career and it seems isolating and depressing

1582
01:27:54,840 --> 01:27:58,400
Speaker 1: and frustrating. And I thought it was she's made a

1583
01:27:58,479 --> 01:28:01,280
Speaker 1: joke of but we see the same a few different times.

1584
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: Who's constantly like kind of referencing.

1585
01:28:03,520 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 5: Like Johnny either like Johnny, Yes, Johnny's Who's Johnny. I

1586
01:28:08,040 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 5: have no idea which flayers Johnny is, but he's one

1587
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:11,840
Speaker 5: of them, one of those.

1588
01:28:12,320 --> 01:28:15,719
Speaker 1: But I thought Johnny's wife, like she's played for laughs mostly,

1589
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,200
Speaker 1: but I thought it was like, I don't know, I didn't.

1590
01:28:18,760 --> 01:28:21,519
Speaker 1: I liked her like she was she was like trying

1591
01:28:21,560 --> 01:28:23,400
Speaker 1: to make the best of what she seemed to know

1592
01:28:23,560 --> 01:28:26,000
Speaker 1: is a bad situation. But she's like I'm trying to

1593
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:28,559
Speaker 1: get my husband to read a book, or like I'm

1594
01:28:28,600 --> 01:28:30,920
Speaker 1: trying to get my husband to do anything except be

1595
01:28:31,040 --> 01:28:35,000
Speaker 1: a fucking goon, which is like whatever, what Like all

1596
01:28:35,040 --> 01:28:38,920
Speaker 1: the guys in the team are, and it's you know,

1597
01:28:39,000 --> 01:28:41,160
Speaker 1: it's not. Is it the most progressive thing ever? No,

1598
01:28:41,320 --> 01:28:44,160
Speaker 1: But I didn't feel like there is, Like she was

1599
01:28:44,200 --> 01:28:46,599
Speaker 1: like an interesting character that I wish it had been

1600
01:28:46,640 --> 01:28:50,040
Speaker 1: played for more than laughs, because when one of the

1601
01:28:50,080 --> 01:28:52,920
Speaker 1: fights that Lily and Ned have in public, you know,

1602
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:55,439
Speaker 1: Lily basically ends by being like me and Ned are

1603
01:28:55,439 --> 01:28:59,360
Speaker 1: better than everyone here, bye, and like leaves right and

1604
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:03,599
Speaker 1: Johnny's wife, who God, I wish she had a name

1605
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:06,080
Speaker 1: respond to that by being like, oh, I really feel

1606
01:29:06,120 --> 01:29:11,759
Speaker 1: for her, and You're like, that's I don't know, I whatever,

1607
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:14,439
Speaker 1: Like I guess I understood like those it seems like

1608
01:29:14,439 --> 01:29:17,439
Speaker 1: it's implied in the movie that those women don't connect

1609
01:29:17,439 --> 01:29:21,639
Speaker 1: with each other because of class differences, But I felt

1610
01:29:21,680 --> 01:29:24,519
Speaker 1: like the Hockey Wives I thought were played broadly in

1611
01:29:24,560 --> 01:29:27,520
Speaker 1: a way that it would have been because I appreciated

1612
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:32,439
Speaker 1: that the movie made time for women at all, which

1613
01:29:32,560 --> 01:29:36,519
Speaker 1: again it's like, I like, sports movies almost never do,

1614
01:29:36,800 --> 01:29:40,320
Speaker 1: and if you do, it's like the supportive wife like

1615
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:44,280
Speaker 1: grabbing their husband's hand being like go go coach a

1616
01:29:44,680 --> 01:29:48,639
Speaker 1: baby or whatever the fuck, which is like so fucking boring.

1617
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:51,479
Speaker 1: But it's like how a lot of women appear in

1618
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:55,160
Speaker 1: sports movies at all. But there was especially because it's

1619
01:29:55,160 --> 01:29:57,880
Speaker 1: like Nancy Dad seemed to want to include women, but

1620
01:29:58,000 --> 01:30:02,280
Speaker 1: it felt like well to an extent, like I'm happy

1621
01:30:02,280 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 1: to include educated women, but like it seemed like the

1622
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:08,759
Speaker 1: hockey wives, I just feel like there was room for

1623
01:30:09,439 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 1: them to be played off as more of kind of

1624
01:30:11,479 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 1: one liners. But I liked that scene in the car

1625
01:30:13,560 --> 01:30:15,800
Speaker 1: where it was like, even though these women don't get along,

1626
01:30:15,840 --> 01:30:18,679
Speaker 1: they do have a common struggle and they are pushed

1627
01:30:18,720 --> 01:30:21,559
Speaker 1: aside and expected to put up with all of this shit,

1628
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:25,880
Speaker 1: and it's like leading to addiction issues for them.

1629
01:30:26,120 --> 01:30:29,439
Speaker 5: And yeah, they all seem to be self medicating to

1630
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:35,240
Speaker 5: fight the just either loneliness or abuse that they're putting

1631
01:30:35,320 --> 01:30:41,200
Speaker 5: up with. Can we talk about Suzanne because.

1632
01:30:40,920 --> 01:30:42,360
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Suzanne.

1633
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:45,200
Speaker 5: So Suzanne is the character. I think she's only in

1634
01:30:45,320 --> 01:30:46,400
Speaker 5: one scene.

1635
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:49,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is wild because the actor who plays her

1636
01:30:50,479 --> 01:30:54,840
Speaker 1: is like so successful and won an Oscar like this

1637
01:30:55,040 --> 01:30:55,679
Speaker 1: same year.

1638
01:30:56,120 --> 01:30:58,760
Speaker 5: Oh wow, what's her name? I didn't even look it up.

1639
01:30:59,040 --> 01:31:03,160
Speaker 1: Belinda Dyllon You probably my dad picked up on this.

1640
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, she is she? I think most

1641
01:31:05,720 --> 01:31:09,840
Speaker 1: iconically plays the mom in a Christmas Story. But she

1642
01:31:10,600 --> 01:31:13,479
Speaker 1: or no, sorry, she was nominated this same year for

1643
01:31:13,600 --> 01:31:20,640
Speaker 1: playing I think the mom character in Close Encounters. Okay,

1644
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:25,439
Speaker 1: but whatever. She's like a very very successful actor, but.

1645
01:31:25,400 --> 01:31:28,479
Speaker 7: She's only in this movie for one minute, for one scene,

1646
01:31:29,000 --> 01:31:33,560
Speaker 7: and it's the scene where she's in bed with Reggie

1647
01:31:33,960 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 7: and she's talking about how her husband Hanrahan, when he

1648
01:31:41,120 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 7: was like out on the road for a game, how

1649
01:31:44,040 --> 01:31:47,600
Speaker 7: she and another hockey wife they would get together and

1650
01:31:47,680 --> 01:31:51,120
Speaker 7: talk about how depressed and lonely they were without the men,

1651
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,439
Speaker 7: and then also how they lamented that they never did

1652
01:31:54,520 --> 01:31:57,599
Speaker 7: much of anything themselves, which I feel like is also

1653
01:31:57,800 --> 01:31:59,680
Speaker 7: maybe what Lily.

1654
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:03,320
Speaker 5: Struggles with to some degree, where she's like, I'm not

1655
01:32:03,360 --> 01:32:07,160
Speaker 5: doing anything but like supporting my husband in his career,

1656
01:32:07,280 --> 01:32:09,320
Speaker 5: but like, what about or maybe this is just like

1657
01:32:09,600 --> 01:32:13,920
Speaker 5: headcanon that I'm assigning to Lily. But anyway, Suzanne's talking

1658
01:32:13,960 --> 01:32:17,000
Speaker 5: about how like, oh, I never did anything for myself,

1659
01:32:17,560 --> 01:32:20,519
Speaker 5: and then she goes on to describe how one night

1660
01:32:20,600 --> 01:32:24,240
Speaker 5: when she and this other hockey wife were hanging out,

1661
01:32:24,439 --> 01:32:27,880
Speaker 5: they were drinking and they started fooling around, but then

1662
01:32:27,920 --> 01:32:32,600
Speaker 5: they kept getting together and having sex sober, and that

1663
01:32:32,640 --> 01:32:36,800
Speaker 5: they were like engaging in this like sexual relationship that

1664
01:32:36,840 --> 01:32:41,400
Speaker 5: they were both into. And she's like, hey, Reg, have

1665
01:32:41,479 --> 01:32:44,960
Speaker 5: you ever considered sleeping with men? And at first he

1666
01:32:45,040 --> 01:32:48,120
Speaker 5: says no, but then he's like, who knows, maybe I'll

1667
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:51,719
Speaker 5: start sleeping with old goalies. And then I'm like, okay,

1668
01:32:51,840 --> 01:32:52,760
Speaker 5: he's I don't know.

1669
01:32:53,560 --> 01:32:57,200
Speaker 1: That scene is like almost and then it's so frustrating.

1670
01:32:57,320 --> 01:33:00,599
Speaker 8: But it's also like I feel like that's like Reg sucks,

1671
01:33:00,640 --> 01:33:03,439
Speaker 8: and it's like it's so frustrating to see a character

1672
01:33:03,439 --> 01:33:06,240
Speaker 8: that in their more private moments seems to be a

1673
01:33:06,360 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 8: better person than they are in their.

1674
01:33:08,360 --> 01:33:12,880
Speaker 5: Public Yeah, right, Because again, the whole reason this scene

1675
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:16,000
Speaker 5: even happens narratively in the movie is that so he

1676
01:33:16,080 --> 01:33:21,240
Speaker 5: now has information that he uses against his opponent in

1677
01:33:21,600 --> 01:33:26,880
Speaker 5: a way that like outs this guy's wife like disparages

1678
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 5: her for her queerness, and he's like using that as

1679
01:33:31,360 --> 01:33:34,280
Speaker 5: ammunition to try to win the game, and like for

1680
01:33:34,320 --> 01:33:38,679
Speaker 5: his own personal benefit. He does something similar with the

1681
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:41,839
Speaker 5: general manager, that guy Joe, where he's like, Hey, remember

1682
01:33:41,880 --> 01:33:44,880
Speaker 5: that night that you I walked in on you and

1683
01:33:44,920 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 5: you were wearing like women's lingerie and then you came

1684
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:50,240
Speaker 5: on to me. Well, I don't have to tell anyone

1685
01:33:50,240 --> 01:33:52,760
Speaker 5: about that as long as you give me. So he

1686
01:33:52,800 --> 01:33:56,840
Speaker 5: basically like blackmails him to learn the owner who the

1687
01:33:56,880 --> 01:33:57,840
Speaker 5: owner of the team is.

1688
01:33:58,120 --> 01:34:00,400
Speaker 1: That's something that yeah, And then that's like I do

1689
01:34:00,479 --> 01:34:04,080
Speaker 1: think the Reges is a super villain because I do

1690
01:34:04,720 --> 01:34:09,320
Speaker 1: almost believe him when he says that he like he's like,

1691
01:34:09,479 --> 01:34:13,600
Speaker 1: I get it, it's the seventies, queer people exist, Like,

1692
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:17,479
Speaker 1: I do believe that he understands that. But the fact

1693
01:34:17,479 --> 01:34:23,400
Speaker 1: that he understands that and is not above exploiting societal

1694
01:34:23,439 --> 01:34:27,760
Speaker 1: homophobia against people that he knows and says he likes,

1695
01:34:28,360 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: it's like, that's that's extra evil. That's extra evil.

1696
01:34:32,920 --> 01:34:36,240
Speaker 6: And in that scene, you know, like first of all,

1697
01:34:36,280 --> 01:34:38,640
Speaker 6: the scene where he you know, kind of bates the

1698
01:34:38,680 --> 01:34:43,559
Speaker 6: opponent the goalie, right, you know, with this information that

1699
01:34:43,600 --> 01:34:48,480
Speaker 6: he has about his wife, you know, from a hockey perspective,

1700
01:34:49,120 --> 01:34:53,120
Speaker 6: you know, nobody, nobody stands on the ice and shouts

1701
01:34:53,120 --> 01:34:54,800
Speaker 6: at someone and then moves over.

1702
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,400
Speaker 1: You know, Oh, they're not shouting plot points at each

1703
01:34:57,400 --> 01:34:58,080
Speaker 1: other on the.

1704
01:34:58,120 --> 01:35:01,080
Speaker 6: Oh no no, So that that was like annoying because

1705
01:35:01,080 --> 01:35:02,960
Speaker 6: some of the you know, some of the stuff with

1706
01:35:03,000 --> 01:35:05,720
Speaker 6: the Hanson brothers, the hockey, the skating, the this that

1707
01:35:05,960 --> 01:35:09,439
Speaker 6: the hitting you know is legit. Those guys were really

1708
01:35:09,439 --> 01:35:14,759
Speaker 6: hockey players. But so Reg Dunlop and rages the goalie

1709
01:35:15,479 --> 01:35:18,960
Speaker 6: who attacks him finally after a goal and it's a

1710
01:35:19,000 --> 01:35:23,280
Speaker 6: big fight. Now does anybody know at first, like what

1711
01:35:23,520 --> 01:35:26,240
Speaker 6: caused this big fight? Did anybody hear what Reggie was saying?

1712
01:35:26,280 --> 01:35:30,080
Speaker 6: I don't think so. Just the goalie? Yeah, so he

1713
01:35:29,640 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 6: he could have left it there on the ice, right,

1714
01:35:32,560 --> 01:35:34,800
Speaker 6: But then he comes in and tells his whole team

1715
01:35:34,920 --> 01:35:36,760
Speaker 6: like when they asked him, would you say you know?

1716
01:35:37,479 --> 01:35:42,640
Speaker 6: And he he out you know someone else that he was.

1717
01:35:43,360 --> 01:35:47,000
Speaker 6: You know, I don't know that that is diabolical.

1718
01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:50,960
Speaker 1: Yes, it's evil, like it's and it's a first because

1719
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:56,400
Speaker 1: I didn't hate their scene together before I saw the

1720
01:35:56,439 --> 01:36:00,200
Speaker 1: scene after because it felt like these are themes and

1721
01:36:00,360 --> 01:36:04,080
Speaker 1: just like queer people like just appearing in movies at

1722
01:36:04,080 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: all in a way that was like it seemed like

1723
01:36:06,280 --> 01:36:09,320
Speaker 1: they both accepted each other in that scene, and like

1724
01:36:09,400 --> 01:36:13,160
Speaker 1: the language is not great, but it's like for the time,

1725
01:36:13,280 --> 01:36:16,400
Speaker 1: it was like, wow, this it seems very unlikely that

1726
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:21,160
Speaker 1: this was appearing in like popular summer comedies at the time.

1727
01:36:21,640 --> 01:36:26,600
Speaker 1: So okay, like you know, I can navigate around the

1728
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:30,360
Speaker 1: dated elements of it, but yeah, it's yeah, he was

1729
01:36:30,400 --> 01:36:32,800
Speaker 1: so evil about that. And I feel like she because

1730
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:36,479
Speaker 1: that character never comes back, It doesn't come back around

1731
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:40,439
Speaker 1: in a satisfying way, but in the same way. I mean,

1732
01:36:40,479 --> 01:36:42,160
Speaker 1: I love her. I like that scene. I think the

1733
01:36:42,240 --> 01:36:43,960
Speaker 1: last thing that we were talking about Dad that I

1734
01:36:43,960 --> 01:36:47,600
Speaker 1: think is extra evil about Reg in that situation is

1735
01:36:47,640 --> 01:36:50,880
Speaker 1: that she mentions in that scene that when her husband

1736
01:36:50,920 --> 01:36:54,040
Speaker 1: found out that she had had sex with women, he

1737
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:56,919
Speaker 1: was so abusive to her that she was in the hospital.

1738
01:36:56,960 --> 01:36:59,920
Speaker 1: And it's like, well, Reg clearly doesn't care about that,

1739
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:03,760
Speaker 1: because he then taunts her husband that he knows to

1740
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:07,559
Speaker 1: be abusive, and she says that like she's hiding out

1741
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,840
Speaker 1: from him, Like it's just it sounds like she was

1742
01:37:09,880 --> 01:37:14,760
Speaker 1: in this tremendously abusive relationship, which again I believe it

1743
01:37:15,080 --> 01:37:19,040
Speaker 1: like seems, you know, whatever that still happens. But the

1744
01:37:19,080 --> 01:37:23,320
Speaker 1: fact that like our movie starting Hero then does that,

1745
01:37:23,560 --> 01:37:26,160
Speaker 1: I feel like it did undercut the fact that the

1746
01:37:26,200 --> 01:37:28,680
Speaker 1: movie went out of its way to say like that

1747
01:37:29,080 --> 01:37:31,640
Speaker 1: her having a queer relationship. Not only was he up

1748
01:37:31,640 --> 01:37:35,120
Speaker 1: said about being cheated on, but also this thing that

1749
01:37:35,400 --> 01:37:37,360
Speaker 1: felt I don't know, I mean that I guess you

1750
01:37:37,360 --> 01:37:39,800
Speaker 1: can tell us. For the time, like, there seemed like

1751
01:37:39,840 --> 01:37:43,479
Speaker 1: there was talk among the men of just confusion and

1752
01:37:43,640 --> 01:37:47,639
Speaker 1: like hateful confusion in handra hand and the whole team's case,

1753
01:37:47,680 --> 01:37:50,760
Speaker 1: They're like, well, if my wife has a relationship with

1754
01:37:50,760 --> 01:37:53,559
Speaker 1: a woman, then am I gay and I can't be gay?

1755
01:37:53,680 --> 01:37:56,439
Speaker 1: And like just like stuff that makes no sense.

1756
01:37:56,680 --> 01:37:59,960
Speaker 6: Yeah, that was a stretch. I think I don't know

1757
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:01,040
Speaker 6: that that, you know.

1758
01:38:01,120 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 1: I was like people people believe that.

1759
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:08,280
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not sure that, you know, but when I

1760
01:38:08,360 --> 01:38:10,559
Speaker 6: was a kid, I don't really think that that is

1761
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:11,880
Speaker 6: what somebody thought.

1762
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:15,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was like, it doesn't make any sense, but yeah, okay,

1763
01:38:15,200 --> 01:38:17,599
Speaker 1: I was. I was curious about that, but it Yeah,

1764
01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:22,240
Speaker 1: I mean, just again, reg Reg sucks. I love Paul

1765
01:38:22,320 --> 01:38:26,240
Speaker 1: Newman and I love salad, but I hate reg and

1766
01:38:26,320 --> 01:38:29,320
Speaker 1: it is what it is. But I did think that

1767
01:38:29,400 --> 01:38:31,760
Speaker 1: it was Again, it's like this this movie feels like

1768
01:38:31,800 --> 01:38:36,880
Speaker 1: it's doing incremental stuff in this genre that you don't

1769
01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:40,240
Speaker 1: see decades later. So I do appreciate that it's like

1770
01:38:40,280 --> 01:38:46,160
Speaker 1: there is a queer character who is like open about

1771
01:38:46,200 --> 01:38:50,280
Speaker 1: it is cool, is performed in a way that felt

1772
01:38:50,920 --> 01:38:55,400
Speaker 1: authentic and cool. But also the seventies element of it

1773
01:38:55,439 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 1: is that they're immediately put in danger and then never

1774
01:38:59,280 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 1: appear in the movie.

1775
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:05,719
Speaker 5: So and you know, she's she's talking about her sexual

1776
01:39:05,760 --> 01:39:08,400
Speaker 5: relationship with a woman, but the scene we're seeing on

1777
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:12,800
Speaker 5: screen is her in a sexual situation with a man,

1778
01:39:12,960 --> 01:39:17,800
Speaker 5: because heaven forbid we see like queer romance or sexuality

1779
01:39:17,920 --> 01:39:20,120
Speaker 5: actually on screen at that time.

1780
01:39:20,200 --> 01:39:20,599
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1781
01:39:20,640 --> 01:39:23,519
Speaker 1: Sure, or And it's like I sort of chalked that

1782
01:39:23,680 --> 01:39:27,040
Speaker 1: up more to like, well, how did people talk about

1783
01:39:28,080 --> 01:39:30,880
Speaker 1: bisexuality in the seventies? Did they know? How did they

1784
01:39:30,880 --> 01:39:33,639
Speaker 1: have the tools? I just sort of assumed they did.

1785
01:39:34,320 --> 01:39:38,800
Speaker 5: But also like the way that raunchy comedies of like

1786
01:39:39,360 --> 01:39:42,599
Speaker 5: the nineties and two thousands would have.

1787
01:39:42,600 --> 01:39:44,920
Speaker 1: Which I think are worse than this movie on us.

1788
01:39:44,920 --> 01:39:47,679
Speaker 5: They are they Yeah, and we've talked about I think

1789
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:51,160
Speaker 5: I've like speculated as to why, but the way that

1790
01:39:51,240 --> 01:39:56,800
Speaker 5: those movies will have visibility of queer characters or of

1791
01:39:57,240 --> 01:40:00,400
Speaker 5: people of color, but they're only there to then like

1792
01:40:00,479 --> 01:40:05,880
Speaker 5: punching bags to the main characters who are just saying

1793
01:40:06,080 --> 01:40:11,320
Speaker 5: horrible things and like making jokes at their expense of

1794
01:40:11,439 --> 01:40:15,439
Speaker 5: like what in whatever way they are marginalized, That's that's

1795
01:40:15,479 --> 01:40:18,000
Speaker 5: why they're there, and it's so jokes can be made

1796
01:40:18,040 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 5: at their expense. So and I felt the same way

1797
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,439
Speaker 5: for Suzanne, like, yes, she's a queer character who's talking

1798
01:40:24,479 --> 01:40:29,559
Speaker 5: openly about her queerness to someone who seems receptive to it.

1799
01:40:29,720 --> 01:40:32,240
Speaker 5: But we learned that that scene is only in the

1800
01:40:32,320 --> 01:40:35,640
Speaker 5: movie so that this guy can use that as ammunition

1801
01:40:36,240 --> 01:40:40,240
Speaker 5: to win a hockey game and then boast about it.

1802
01:40:40,320 --> 01:40:44,000
Speaker 5: He's like, yeah, team, the reason we won is because

1803
01:40:44,200 --> 01:40:49,000
Speaker 5: I outed this woman who has an abusive husband.

1804
01:40:48,640 --> 01:40:52,439
Speaker 9: And anyone who had listened, yeah, that's I think that's

1805
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:55,000
Speaker 9: like that's a good not that it justifies any kind

1806
01:40:55,040 --> 01:40:56,800
Speaker 9: of behavior, but the fact that he does it a

1807
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 9: second time, like he shouts it her husband, which is

1808
01:41:01,160 --> 01:41:03,360
Speaker 9: putting her in danger in one way, but.

1809
01:41:03,320 --> 01:41:04,960
Speaker 1: Then he does it a second time right.

1810
01:41:04,800 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 5: After, and it's like saying, he's the worst.

1811
01:41:08,160 --> 01:41:08,800
Speaker 1: How are you doing that?

1812
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:15,400
Speaker 5: I don't have much else to say except that their

1813
01:41:15,520 --> 01:41:19,600
Speaker 5: their bus driver is wearing a helmet with a swastika

1814
01:41:19,600 --> 01:41:20,080
Speaker 5: on it.

1815
01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:21,479
Speaker 1: I noticed that as well.

1816
01:41:21,600 --> 01:41:25,040
Speaker 6: I never never caught that the first several times I

1817
01:41:25,080 --> 01:41:28,320
Speaker 6: watched the movie. You know, Walt Walt, who just goes

1818
01:41:28,320 --> 01:41:30,880
Speaker 6: from Walt the bus driver and you know, he's another one.

1819
01:41:31,040 --> 01:41:34,280
Speaker 6: He gets all swept and swept up in the you know,

1820
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:38,200
Speaker 6: Chief's mania and starts you know, hammer and the bus,

1821
01:41:38,520 --> 01:41:41,320
Speaker 6: you know, to make it look meaner, and then the swastika,

1822
01:41:41,840 --> 01:41:43,080
Speaker 6: you know, but that you're.

1823
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:46,439
Speaker 1: Just like, is that? Yeah? That that was a kind

1824
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:48,439
Speaker 1: of jump scare in the movie, and it's like if

1825
01:41:48,439 --> 01:41:52,640
Speaker 1: it was. I think maybe the most generous reading of

1826
01:41:52,680 --> 01:41:55,479
Speaker 1: that was like, oh, this team is getting more and

1827
01:41:55,640 --> 01:41:59,320
Speaker 1: more evil, but they were like, there's so many there's

1828
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 1: no world where that was necessary.

1829
01:42:01,760 --> 01:42:08,439
Speaker 5: No, there's also an indigenous player during the final game.

1830
01:42:08,720 --> 01:42:10,479
Speaker 1: I want to talk about that. Yes, I mean, I

1831
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:13,599
Speaker 1: know obviously you did get spread it up. Yes, which

1832
01:42:13,600 --> 01:42:17,880
Speaker 1: in general, because the team in this movie are called

1833
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:21,599
Speaker 1: the Chiefs and there's a lot of and I think

1834
01:42:21,640 --> 01:42:27,760
Speaker 1: that that's an ongoing conversation in sports is it is

1835
01:42:28,120 --> 01:42:33,920
Speaker 1: teams that are named and characterize Indigenous people as mascots.

1836
01:42:34,120 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 1: And that's an ongoing conversation also in hockey specifically because

1837
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:41,680
Speaker 1: the Chicago Blackhawks. I mean that I know you know this,

1838
01:42:42,160 --> 01:42:47,120
Speaker 1: you know this whole conversation of representing Indigenous people as

1839
01:42:47,720 --> 01:42:51,559
Speaker 1: mascots and the issues and conversations that have taken place.

1840
01:42:51,760 --> 01:42:55,320
Speaker 1: And also that team is still called the Chicago Blackhawks.

1841
01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:59,320
Speaker 1: They did not make any changes after that conversation was had.

1842
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:02,120
Speaker 1: I was trying to happened in the mid twenty times.

1843
01:43:02,680 --> 01:43:06,800
Speaker 1: But so this team is named the Chiefs, and there

1844
01:43:06,920 --> 01:43:11,720
Speaker 1: is a character in.

1845
01:43:10,800 --> 01:43:16,240
Speaker 5: The on the Syracuse team, Yes, what is his Clarence

1846
01:43:16,600 --> 01:43:23,280
Speaker 5: swamp Town aka Screaming Buffalo, who is played by a

1847
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:29,760
Speaker 5: real hockey player named Joe Nolan, who is First Nations.

1848
01:43:30,479 --> 01:43:33,360
Speaker 1: I was worried that, I was really worried that it

1849
01:43:33,400 --> 01:43:34,520
Speaker 1: was a guy in brown.

1850
01:43:34,439 --> 01:43:38,439
Speaker 5: A white guy. Yeah, but this is a real Indigenous person,

1851
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:43,480
Speaker 5: a real hockey player. However, the way that the costuming

1852
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:47,320
Speaker 5: and the just characterization of that character is still relying

1853
01:43:47,560 --> 01:43:54,320
Speaker 5: heavily on stereotypes of Indigenous and First Nations people.

1854
01:43:54,840 --> 01:43:58,280
Speaker 1: So whoops, Yeah.

1855
01:43:57,720 --> 01:44:00,519
Speaker 6: That's a tough one, you know, I mean all the

1856
01:44:00,560 --> 01:44:03,400
Speaker 6: way down to like I've I said earlier, there was

1857
01:44:03,439 --> 01:44:05,439
Speaker 6: so much of the hockey parts of it are like,

1858
01:44:06,880 --> 01:44:10,240
Speaker 6: you know, an exaggeration, you know, like almost like a caricature,

1859
01:44:11,240 --> 01:44:14,120
Speaker 6: you know of that scene. That's one of the things

1860
01:44:14,160 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 6: in the in the mood, it's like that never would

1861
01:44:16,479 --> 01:44:19,560
Speaker 6: be allowed. You know, he just he that's that's a

1862
01:44:20,160 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 6: you know. And again it's you know, we've talked to

1863
01:44:22,160 --> 01:44:24,280
Speaker 6: you know, if you could snip this guy out and

1864
01:44:24,320 --> 01:44:27,439
Speaker 6: this guy out, it really changes thing that was like,

1865
01:44:27,640 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 6: all right, you've you've made your point. You know that

1866
01:44:30,600 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 6: the Syracuse team is loaded up on rugged guys, you know,

1867
01:44:35,920 --> 01:44:39,160
Speaker 6: to pay you back, you know, like how many did

1868
01:44:39,200 --> 01:44:40,000
Speaker 6: you have to have? Right?

1869
01:44:40,120 --> 01:44:41,760
Speaker 1: Well? And it's also like I don't think that the

1870
01:44:41,800 --> 01:44:45,280
Speaker 1: solution to that is cutting out that character. It's just

1871
01:44:45,360 --> 01:44:49,559
Speaker 1: presenting this real life First Nations hockey player in a

1872
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:53,960
Speaker 1: way that wasn't you know, inherently connected to the fact

1873
01:44:54,000 --> 01:44:57,560
Speaker 1: that he was a First Nations player. Like I don't know,

1874
01:44:57,600 --> 01:45:00,679
Speaker 1: I have no objection to like having a because because

1875
01:45:00,880 --> 01:45:04,599
Speaker 1: like you've mentioned that, there's so many real life hockey

1876
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:08,040
Speaker 1: players that appear in this movie, and Joe Nolan like

1877
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,080
Speaker 1: played on a number of teams, including the Johnstown Jets.

1878
01:45:11,120 --> 01:45:15,000
Speaker 1: He's from a hockey family. He is uh this is

1879
01:45:15,040 --> 01:45:21,040
Speaker 1: according to Hockey Legends dot com scholarly journal. Yes exactly.

1880
01:45:21,640 --> 01:45:25,920
Speaker 1: He is Ojibwa. He is the uncle of Buffalo Sabers

1881
01:45:25,960 --> 01:45:29,160
Speaker 1: coach Ted Nolan and great uncle of Jordan Nolan of

1882
01:45:29,200 --> 01:45:32,439
Speaker 1: the La Kings. So he's like from a like legacy

1883
01:45:32,560 --> 01:45:35,559
Speaker 1: hockey family. There's no issue with him being in this movie.

1884
01:45:35,680 --> 01:45:39,880
Speaker 1: It's just like presenting him as not inherently connected to

1885
01:45:40,240 --> 01:45:43,280
Speaker 1: his like it's just like it's obviously written by a

1886
01:45:43,280 --> 01:45:46,599
Speaker 1: white writer of the time, disrespectful and just being like, well,

1887
01:45:46,800 --> 01:45:48,479
Speaker 1: this is his heritage, so this is gonna be the

1888
01:45:48,560 --> 01:45:50,800
Speaker 1: whole character, and we're going to write it in the

1889
01:45:50,840 --> 01:45:54,040
Speaker 1: way like we're going to write him for a white audience.

1890
01:45:54,320 --> 01:45:56,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, the most trophy way possible.

1891
01:45:57,240 --> 01:45:58,599
Speaker 1: And it would have been cool, Like it would have been

1892
01:45:58,560 --> 01:46:00,720
Speaker 1: cool if Joe Nolan was cast in a role that

1893
01:46:00,960 --> 01:46:04,080
Speaker 1: was not that like was just like he could have

1894
01:46:04,120 --> 01:46:06,479
Speaker 1: played a he could be a guy on that team.

1895
01:46:06,760 --> 01:46:09,439
Speaker 1: But just it's obviously racist the way it's sounded.

1896
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 5: Right, with more than fifteen seconds of screen time, you know.

1897
01:46:13,760 --> 01:46:14,400
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1898
01:46:14,680 --> 01:46:17,519
Speaker 1: I also this is like separate, but I learned about

1899
01:46:17,560 --> 01:46:19,960
Speaker 1: it on my trip at the Hockey Hall of Fame,

1900
01:46:20,120 --> 01:46:23,240
Speaker 1: so I wanted to mention it and we can link

1901
01:46:23,280 --> 01:46:26,519
Speaker 1: it in the description of this episode. But just the

1902
01:46:26,640 --> 01:46:30,519
Speaker 1: history of Native American and First Nations players within hockey,

1903
01:46:30,560 --> 01:46:34,719
Speaker 1: there's a lot to be discussed and learned about where

1904
01:46:34,720 --> 01:46:38,040
Speaker 1: there are still a number of I mean like there

1905
01:46:38,080 --> 01:46:42,360
Speaker 1: are a number of Native players in professional hockey today,

1906
01:46:43,000 --> 01:46:47,479
Speaker 1: but there's also a history of hockey in reservation schools,

1907
01:46:47,680 --> 01:46:50,599
Speaker 1: and hockey has a role in Canadian reservation schools. There's

1908
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:52,320
Speaker 1: been a lot written about it in the last couple

1909
01:46:52,400 --> 01:46:56,320
Speaker 1: of years that I think is very relevant to what

1910
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,559
Speaker 1: we're talking about, very interesting, and especially when this Joe

1911
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:01,519
Speaker 1: Nolan came character came up, it was like, oh, there's

1912
01:47:01,560 --> 01:47:05,679
Speaker 1: actually a lot of troubling and like relevant Indigenous history

1913
01:47:05,720 --> 01:47:09,760
Speaker 1: within hockey that if you're if you're interested, we can

1914
01:47:09,840 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: link a piece that I read below and I learned

1915
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:14,920
Speaker 1: about it. I don't know why I keep plugging the

1916
01:47:14,920 --> 01:47:19,280
Speaker 1: Hockey Museum. I thought it was really interesting and we'll

1917
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:19,680
Speaker 1: link it.

1918
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:20,200
Speaker 5: Yes.

1919
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:24,000
Speaker 6: Indeed, ironically, I have never been to the Hockey Hall

1920
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:24,400
Speaker 6: of Fame.

1921
01:47:24,640 --> 01:47:27,200
Speaker 1: I know it's just like texting you pictures the whole time.

1922
01:47:27,560 --> 01:47:28,519
Speaker 5: Where is it Toronto?

1923
01:47:28,760 --> 01:47:31,519
Speaker 1: Yes, in Toronto Hockey Hall of Fame. I saw the

1924
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:33,920
Speaker 1: Stanley Cup from a healthy distance, and then I did

1925
01:47:33,920 --> 01:47:36,679
Speaker 1: not pay ten dollars to have my picture taken next

1926
01:47:36,680 --> 01:47:37,040
Speaker 1: to it.

1927
01:47:37,479 --> 01:47:37,759
Speaker 5: Nice.

1928
01:47:37,920 --> 01:47:39,639
Speaker 1: Nice, I took a picture of it from far away.

1929
01:47:40,400 --> 01:47:44,720
Speaker 5: Does anyone have anything else they'd like to discuss?

1930
01:47:45,240 --> 01:47:49,040
Speaker 6: Well, just because I did all the research, one of

1931
01:47:49,040 --> 01:47:51,360
Speaker 6: the one of the one of the interesting things. I mean,

1932
01:47:51,360 --> 01:47:54,880
Speaker 6: the people who know this movie would be very frustrated.

1933
01:47:54,920 --> 01:47:56,639
Speaker 6: It was like, how could you not talk about?

1934
01:47:57,160 --> 01:47:57,360
Speaker 4: You know?

1935
01:47:57,439 --> 01:48:01,439
Speaker 6: The interesting things to me are that there really were

1936
01:48:02,120 --> 01:48:06,799
Speaker 6: like so the three Hanson brothers. There really were three

1937
01:48:06,840 --> 01:48:11,400
Speaker 6: brothers on that Johnstown team. Their last name was Carlson.

1938
01:48:12,000 --> 01:48:15,000
Speaker 6: They were all supposed to be in the movie. One

1939
01:48:15,040 --> 01:48:17,960
Speaker 6: of them got called up to a better team, so

1940
01:48:18,600 --> 01:48:21,360
Speaker 6: they had to replace him with somebody who looked similar.

1941
01:48:22,560 --> 01:48:26,080
Speaker 6: His last name was Hanson, and that's that's how they

1942
01:48:26,200 --> 01:48:29,519
Speaker 6: named the three the Hansons. But god, it just there's

1943
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 6: there's a lot of little interesting things there. The one

1944
01:48:32,960 --> 01:48:37,200
Speaker 6: character that he's like, I want to collect that bounty.

1945
01:48:38,240 --> 01:48:41,240
Speaker 6: Who is another person that reg Dunlop, You know, manipulates

1946
01:48:41,240 --> 01:48:43,920
Speaker 6: because he's you know, kind of like a peacenik and

1947
01:48:43,960 --> 01:48:46,040
Speaker 6: a meditator and everything like that, and all of a

1948
01:48:46,080 --> 01:48:50,680
Speaker 6: sudden he becomes Dave Killer Carlson. Well, Dave Killer Carlson

1949
01:48:51,720 --> 01:48:55,640
Speaker 6: was a real player, and he replaced the Hanson that

1950
01:48:55,720 --> 01:48:58,839
Speaker 6: had to leave. It's just there's a lot of funny

1951
01:48:58,880 --> 01:49:01,439
Speaker 6: things in there. So he thought he was going to

1952
01:49:01,479 --> 01:49:04,680
Speaker 6: get to play himself, but instead he had to be

1953
01:49:04,720 --> 01:49:08,680
Speaker 6: a you know, become like a surrogate brother and be

1954
01:49:08,720 --> 01:49:12,479
Speaker 6: in a movie where someone played him. My last favorite

1955
01:49:12,520 --> 01:49:17,920
Speaker 6: thing is, you know, I'm no actor, but throughout the

1956
01:49:17,960 --> 01:49:22,280
Speaker 6: movie there are references made to this player that everybody's

1957
01:49:22,280 --> 01:49:27,639
Speaker 6: fearful of, you know, Ogie oglethorpe Right. Ogie finally shows

1958
01:49:27,720 --> 01:49:31,600
Speaker 6: up in that last game, never says a word, scowling

1959
01:49:31,600 --> 01:49:35,120
Speaker 6: at everybody in that scene scowling and then fighting. That

1960
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:39,160
Speaker 6: is Ned Dowd, whose sister wrote the movie.

1961
01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:41,120
Speaker 5: Oh okay, Nancy Dowd's brother.

1962
01:49:41,439 --> 01:49:45,280
Speaker 6: Yes, so Ogie is you know, but I mean, I

1963
01:49:45,360 --> 01:49:48,839
Speaker 6: just that scene just cracks me up, just to skating

1964
01:49:48,920 --> 01:49:51,040
Speaker 6: out with the you know, chewing the gum and looking

1965
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:54,640
Speaker 6: either aways, you know, but for for that on a

1966
01:49:54,760 --> 01:49:57,800
Speaker 6: screen time, just you you know, to sell it. I'm like,

1967
01:49:57,960 --> 01:49:59,800
Speaker 6: all right, nice job guy, you know.

1968
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:02,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I like I think that that's like

1969
01:50:02,640 --> 01:50:05,920
Speaker 1: just the I don't know, element of just like how

1970
01:50:06,400 --> 01:50:09,519
Speaker 1: she did this sort of immersive approach to researching and

1971
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:11,920
Speaker 1: then seemed to include a lot of people that she'd

1972
01:50:11,960 --> 01:50:14,479
Speaker 1: come across or learned about in that research in the movie.

1973
01:50:14,560 --> 01:50:17,640
Speaker 1: Like that's I just I don't know, I think that's cool.

1974
01:50:17,479 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 6: You know, and you know, there are there are elements

1975
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:21,400
Speaker 6: of truth in the two. And then I'll stop talking about.

1976
01:50:21,640 --> 01:50:27,000
Speaker 6: You know, the Charlestown Chiefs slash Johnstown Jets that nineteen

1977
01:50:27,080 --> 01:50:30,120
Speaker 6: seventy seven season that concluded so they could make the movie.

1978
01:50:30,880 --> 01:50:33,280
Speaker 6: The Jets didn't go out of business, but their league folded.

1979
01:50:33,640 --> 01:50:36,280
Speaker 6: Oh oh okay, you know, so this this was a

1980
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:38,120
Speaker 6: thing that was happening, and that league had only been

1981
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:40,960
Speaker 6: around for four years. The other thing that's interesting is like,

1982
01:50:41,280 --> 01:50:44,000
Speaker 6: you know how outrageous it was that like, why would

1983
01:50:44,000 --> 01:50:47,160
Speaker 6: anybody a hockey team in Florida. Well, you know, there

1984
01:50:47,160 --> 01:50:49,920
Speaker 6: are professional hockey teams in Florida now, and it's you know,

1985
01:50:49,960 --> 01:50:52,160
Speaker 6: it's gone pretty well in a couple of the places.

1986
01:50:52,200 --> 01:50:55,439
Speaker 1: So yeah, well I guess that's The last thing I

1987
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:59,200
Speaker 1: wanted to say was that I appreciated that the movie

1988
01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:01,760
Speaker 1: went out of its way to connect the struggle of

1989
01:51:01,800 --> 01:51:04,840
Speaker 1: this hockey team to what was going on in their community,

1990
01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:08,800
Speaker 1: and how like it was just like acknowledging I don't know,

1991
01:51:08,800 --> 01:51:11,479
Speaker 1: I felt like because it was done off of this

1992
01:51:11,600 --> 01:51:15,559
Speaker 1: very specific reporting in this region or this research I

1993
01:51:15,560 --> 01:51:19,960
Speaker 1: guess in this region, it like does reflect the socioeconomic

1994
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:24,360
Speaker 1: problems in the Pittsburgh area in the late seventies and

1995
01:51:24,439 --> 01:51:26,639
Speaker 1: connects it to this hockey team in a way that feels,

1996
01:51:27,360 --> 01:51:29,280
Speaker 1: I don't know, like class conscious, in a way that

1997
01:51:29,360 --> 01:51:32,960
Speaker 1: a lot of sports moviees either aren't or feel like

1998
01:51:33,200 --> 01:51:37,120
Speaker 1: overly sort of melodramatic about. It. Just felt like it

1999
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:40,759
Speaker 1: fit very cleanly into this world, and like not only

2000
01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:43,920
Speaker 1: like it wasn't like the town and the team because

2001
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:45,559
Speaker 1: it was a minor league team. The team is a

2002
01:51:45,560 --> 01:51:47,320
Speaker 1: part of the town, and so they're all sort of

2003
01:51:47,360 --> 01:51:49,840
Speaker 1: sharing the same kind of issues.

2004
01:51:50,479 --> 01:51:54,840
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, that and we you know, were talking about

2005
01:51:54,840 --> 01:51:58,920
Speaker 5: this earlier. But how Reggie like, does a bunch of

2006
01:51:59,640 --> 01:52:03,000
Speaker 5: you know, like desperate times call for desperate measures and

2007
01:52:03,200 --> 01:52:08,640
Speaker 5: under capitalism when you know your livelihood is being threatened

2008
01:52:08,920 --> 01:52:11,040
Speaker 5: a lot of people do have to act out of

2009
01:52:11,120 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 5: desperation and do things that they would maybe not otherwise

2010
01:52:16,479 --> 01:52:20,600
Speaker 5: do to survive. But and so in that manifests in

2011
01:52:21,280 --> 01:52:25,519
Speaker 5: Reggie as like manipulating people in a way that's like

2012
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:28,240
Speaker 5: extremely harmful. So I guess my point is, like you

2013
01:52:28,360 --> 01:52:34,559
Speaker 5: can do things out of desperation because capitalism is killing

2014
01:52:34,640 --> 01:52:39,840
Speaker 5: us all without also being extremely homophobic and you know

2015
01:52:39,920 --> 01:52:42,760
Speaker 5: all the other things that he does, Like it would

2016
01:52:42,760 --> 01:52:44,479
Speaker 5: be one thing if all he did was just like

2017
01:52:45,400 --> 01:52:49,960
Speaker 5: lie to his team and like plant that story in

2018
01:52:50,040 --> 01:52:52,160
Speaker 5: the sports writer to be like I heard we were

2019
01:52:52,160 --> 01:52:56,080
Speaker 5: getting bought by Florida, And if he tells his team

2020
01:52:56,160 --> 01:52:59,439
Speaker 5: this and his objective is just to get morale up

2021
01:52:59,520 --> 01:53:01,680
Speaker 5: so that they can win and like actually maybe have

2022
01:53:01,720 --> 01:53:04,840
Speaker 5: a shot, Like I wouldn't have any problem with that

2023
01:53:05,080 --> 01:53:09,240
Speaker 5: really because it's like a not a not a diabolical.

2024
01:53:08,640 --> 01:53:10,599
Speaker 1: Lot, but it's a victimless crime, ya.

2025
01:53:10,880 --> 01:53:15,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. But the fact that he's doing that plus all

2026
01:53:15,080 --> 01:53:21,599
Speaker 5: manner of like blackmailing, homophobia, outing people, all this stuff,

2027
01:53:21,640 --> 01:53:24,920
Speaker 5: like that's where I can't.

2028
01:53:25,720 --> 01:53:28,519
Speaker 6: Yeah, So you're not just gonna call him all that

2029
01:53:28,600 --> 01:53:36,320
Speaker 6: old rascal red show today.

2030
01:53:36,439 --> 01:53:43,639
Speaker 1: So okay, let's get through it. This movie, does it

2031
01:53:43,680 --> 01:53:44,400
Speaker 1: does well.

2032
01:53:44,800 --> 01:53:47,479
Speaker 6: I was so surprised to hear yeah.

2033
01:53:47,720 --> 01:53:49,720
Speaker 1: He kept checking with me to make sure that and

2034
01:53:49,760 --> 01:53:52,800
Speaker 1: he was like, wait, what so it doesn't. Well, it's

2035
01:53:52,800 --> 01:53:55,880
Speaker 1: a flawed metric. It doesn't. Just because it passes doesn't

2036
01:53:55,920 --> 01:53:57,360
Speaker 1: mean it's a feminist movie.

2037
01:53:57,600 --> 01:54:02,360
Speaker 5: Right, because Lily and Francine talk about Lily's hair and

2038
01:54:02,479 --> 01:54:07,599
Speaker 5: cheek bones and share and they mentioned share. And then

2039
01:54:07,640 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 5: there's the other scene where it's Lily and then the

2040
01:54:10,960 --> 01:54:13,800
Speaker 5: two other women who I don't think have names, So

2041
01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:16,920
Speaker 5: by that caveat it would not pass. But they are

2042
01:54:16,960 --> 01:54:20,360
Speaker 5: talking about drinking alcohol and.

2043
01:54:20,320 --> 01:54:21,880
Speaker 1: They're talking about addiction problem.

2044
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:24,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, like yeah, so so.

2045
01:54:25,080 --> 01:54:27,519
Speaker 1: It's by the by the skin, it's teeth. But it

2046
01:54:27,560 --> 01:54:30,880
Speaker 1: does technically pass. And I feel like I want to

2047
01:54:30,960 --> 01:54:33,720
Speaker 1: I want to hand it to this movie as passing

2048
01:54:33,840 --> 01:54:36,840
Speaker 1: because of it feels like in many ways the odds

2049
01:54:36,840 --> 01:54:40,240
Speaker 1: are stacked against any sports movie about a men's dem

2050
01:54:40,240 --> 01:54:43,560
Speaker 1: in passing. I was really surprised that it technically passes.

2051
01:54:44,200 --> 01:54:46,000
Speaker 6: I mean, if I can. I mean when I thought

2052
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:49,040
Speaker 6: about it in the you know, you know the theme

2053
01:54:49,160 --> 01:54:51,840
Speaker 6: of your cast, I really just thought that this was

2054
01:54:51,880 --> 01:54:55,600
Speaker 6: a movie that, you know, crass and guys and thee

2055
01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:59,640
Speaker 6: but that the women kind of like stuck up for

2056
01:54:59,680 --> 01:55:03,600
Speaker 6: each other other helped each other, didn't always. I mean,

2057
01:55:03,600 --> 01:55:06,520
Speaker 6: France scene's great. I mean she tells them like right

2058
01:55:06,560 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 6: off the bad one of their first scenes, like, you know,

2059
01:55:08,520 --> 01:55:15,280
Speaker 6: you're a terrible coach, your teams stay you know, I mean, yeah, right,

2060
01:55:15,400 --> 01:55:19,160
Speaker 6: you know so and and you know, and I love,

2061
01:55:19,440 --> 01:55:21,880
Speaker 6: like I said, I love most of the last scene.

2062
01:55:21,880 --> 01:55:25,440
Speaker 6: I still can't figure out, you know, how Lily and

2063
01:55:25,480 --> 01:55:29,640
Speaker 6: Ned end up together. And I agree with you, Caitlin.

2064
01:55:29,680 --> 01:55:32,000
Speaker 6: I thought that that the scene with Franccene was going

2065
01:55:32,080 --> 01:55:35,080
Speaker 6: to empower her to really go but yeah, you know

2066
01:55:35,120 --> 01:55:37,880
Speaker 6: that fran scene, you know, goes her own way. I

2067
01:55:37,960 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 6: mean it's just, you know, it's sort of her own

2068
01:55:42,080 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 6: path because she you know, cuts through, cuts through the

2069
01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:47,280
Speaker 6: parade and goes down the you know, down the road

2070
01:55:47,280 --> 01:55:50,560
Speaker 6: by herself. I just thought it was, you know, that

2071
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:54,400
Speaker 6: that was an element to the movie that shouldn't really

2072
01:55:54,640 --> 01:55:56,440
Speaker 6: you know, be overlooked for sure.

2073
01:55:56,560 --> 01:55:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean yeah, and I do think for especially

2074
01:55:59,280 --> 01:56:02,480
Speaker 1: for its time and also for this genre even now,

2075
01:56:02,600 --> 01:56:06,720
Speaker 1: it is like unusual for women to be included. Also,

2076
01:56:06,760 --> 01:56:10,440
Speaker 1: as much as I hate Ned, he was in twin peaks,

2077
01:56:10,720 --> 01:56:11,720
Speaker 1: so that's kind of fun.

2078
01:56:12,240 --> 01:56:15,040
Speaker 6: He played hockey at the University of New Hampshire as.

2079
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:17,560
Speaker 1: Well, and we can't take that from them either, of course.

2080
01:56:18,240 --> 01:56:19,960
Speaker 6: And it's big time hockey.

2081
01:56:19,920 --> 01:56:20,480
Speaker 1: Oh is it?

2082
01:56:20,800 --> 01:56:21,080
Speaker 6: Yes?

2083
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:24,400
Speaker 1: See? Okay, now I'm nice, sound like an asshole. I

2084
01:56:24,400 --> 01:56:28,720
Speaker 1: didn't know that. This movie surprised me in ways. I

2085
01:56:28,720 --> 01:56:32,280
Speaker 1: wasn't expecting it to. But but we should. We should

2086
01:56:32,280 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: talk about the most important metric on the face of

2087
01:56:34,240 --> 01:56:36,320
Speaker 1: the planet, which is our nipkele scale.

2088
01:56:36,440 --> 01:56:39,720
Speaker 5: Yes, a scale of zero to five nipples in which

2089
01:56:39,760 --> 01:56:42,440
Speaker 5: we rate the movie. That's true, you.

2090
01:56:42,480 --> 01:56:45,120
Speaker 1: Heard, Yes, we need to break it down zero.

2091
01:56:44,880 --> 01:56:49,120
Speaker 5: To five nipples, rating the movie based on examining it

2092
01:56:49,760 --> 01:56:54,720
Speaker 5: through an intersectional feminist lens. Yeah, I'll give this movie

2093
01:56:55,240 --> 01:57:04,000
Speaker 5: one nipple for it's a handful of female characters who,

2094
01:57:04,720 --> 01:57:07,040
Speaker 5: obviously I wish the movie had done a lot more

2095
01:57:07,080 --> 01:57:12,480
Speaker 5: with given more just real estate in the story to Susanne.

2096
01:57:12,520 --> 01:57:16,720
Speaker 5: Only being there so that her situation could be used

2097
01:57:16,840 --> 01:57:21,120
Speaker 5: as ammunition against her husband is obviously gross, but if

2098
01:57:21,200 --> 01:57:24,520
Speaker 5: she had been a more meaningful character. So I guess

2099
01:57:24,560 --> 01:57:27,360
Speaker 5: I'm giving it one nipple for the potential that the

2100
01:57:27,400 --> 01:57:32,560
Speaker 5: movie mostly squandered. I do appreciate that Francine stands her

2101
01:57:32,600 --> 01:57:37,240
Speaker 5: ground in not being willing to get back together with

2102
01:57:37,360 --> 01:57:41,040
Speaker 5: her shitty husband. I agree that like most movies would

2103
01:57:41,080 --> 01:57:44,680
Speaker 5: have like framed her as like the he's trying, he's trying,

2104
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:47,320
Speaker 5: and that at the end he finally gets her back

2105
01:57:47,440 --> 01:57:51,760
Speaker 5: and she's the other trophy he wins. But this movie

2106
01:57:51,760 --> 01:57:57,280
Speaker 5: doesn't do that, and that does count for something. Wow,

2107
01:57:57,400 --> 01:58:02,920
Speaker 5: the bar is so low, but everything else the movie

2108
01:58:02,920 --> 01:58:07,360
Speaker 5: does as far as it's just like rampant homophobia, ablest

2109
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:13,520
Speaker 5: slurs are getting tossed around casually, the treatment of the

2110
01:58:13,520 --> 01:58:17,560
Speaker 5: one indigenous character that we see on screen, all that

2111
01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:21,120
Speaker 5: kind of stuff. If anyone is looking for a movie

2112
01:58:21,880 --> 01:58:26,360
Speaker 5: that features mostly men that is about men who are

2113
01:58:26,400 --> 01:58:32,960
Speaker 5: affected by a steel mill closing, might I recommend The

2114
01:58:33,000 --> 01:58:39,400
Speaker 5: Full Monty because it handles themes of toxic masculinity and

2115
01:58:39,440 --> 01:58:42,200
Speaker 5: things like that in a much more thoughtful way. I

2116
01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:47,240
Speaker 5: would say, not about hockey, though it is about men stripping,

2117
01:58:47,480 --> 01:58:52,080
Speaker 5: although wow, similar ending because we go slapshot does end

2118
01:58:52,280 --> 01:58:58,080
Speaker 5: in a strip tease. So anyway, I I'm glad. I

2119
01:58:58,120 --> 01:59:01,040
Speaker 5: guess that this movie at least for like Jamie yours

2120
01:59:01,040 --> 01:59:05,000
Speaker 5: and my generation and younger generations. It is not something

2121
01:59:05,000 --> 01:59:07,480
Speaker 5: that most people are super aware of. It has not like,

2122
01:59:07,920 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 5: it hasn't ended up as like this like piece of

2123
01:59:10,760 --> 01:59:15,520
Speaker 5: classic Hollywood cinema that you must revisit. It's it doesn't

2124
01:59:15,520 --> 01:59:18,640
Speaker 5: have much of a lasting legacy in that way.

2125
01:59:18,800 --> 01:59:21,200
Speaker 1: Well, I mean except for hockey fans, where it's not

2126
01:59:21,240 --> 01:59:23,720
Speaker 1: a massive leg like in a niche way. It has

2127
01:59:23,760 --> 01:59:26,840
Speaker 1: a huge legacy in the general way, not as much true.

2128
01:59:26,920 --> 01:59:32,040
Speaker 5: True. Yeah, So one Nipple and I will give it

2129
01:59:32,080 --> 01:59:34,160
Speaker 5: to my favorite character, fran scene.

2130
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:37,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give this movie to Nipples because it's my

2131
01:59:37,520 --> 01:59:41,480
Speaker 1: birthday and I know, but I do think that like

2132
01:59:42,040 --> 01:59:44,640
Speaker 1: I agree with I mean, we've talked about it at

2133
01:59:44,680 --> 01:59:49,160
Speaker 1: length now where this movie is not generous in so

2134
01:59:49,280 --> 01:59:53,160
Speaker 1: many ways. It is wildly homophobic the one native character

2135
01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:56,680
Speaker 1: it represents, which is also I think that Joe Nolan

2136
01:59:56,800 --> 01:59:59,520
Speaker 1: is the only non white character who really appears in

2137
01:59:59,520 --> 02:00:04,240
Speaker 1: this movie meaningfully in any way, which again is not necessary,

2138
02:00:04,360 --> 02:00:06,360
Speaker 1: especially because of the region you're in. It's like, there's

2139
02:00:06,440 --> 02:00:09,240
Speaker 1: plenty of diversity to be found in this region. I

2140
02:00:09,280 --> 02:00:12,080
Speaker 1: know that hockey is predominantly a white sport, but it's

2141
02:00:12,080 --> 02:00:13,800
Speaker 1: a movie. You can do whatever the fuck you want.

2142
02:00:14,480 --> 02:00:18,440
Speaker 1: But I do think that this movie is I don't know,

2143
02:00:18,480 --> 02:00:22,760
Speaker 1: I mean a sports comedy in the seventies. Having women

2144
02:00:22,760 --> 02:00:25,600
Speaker 1: included it at all feels kind of like a miracle

2145
02:00:25,640 --> 02:00:28,680
Speaker 1: to me. And having a successful sports movie written by

2146
02:00:28,760 --> 02:00:30,880
Speaker 1: a woman feels kind of like a miracle to me

2147
02:00:31,000 --> 02:00:33,720
Speaker 1: for this era. And so I want.

2148
02:00:33,520 --> 02:00:36,280
Speaker 5: To miracle another hockey movie.

2149
02:00:36,760 --> 02:00:38,800
Speaker 1: Hate it, but that's like the exact kind of corny

2150
02:00:38,840 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 1: ass movie I'm talking about where all the girls are like,

2151
02:00:41,680 --> 02:00:44,240
Speaker 1: you've got this baby, and you're like, oh my god. Like,

2152
02:00:44,840 --> 02:00:48,760
Speaker 1: I do think that this movie has incredible fault. It's

2153
02:00:48,800 --> 02:00:50,960
Speaker 1: like at the end because because we've talked about so

2154
02:00:51,040 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 1: many broad comedies on this show, and all of the

2155
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:57,400
Speaker 1: swings are huge, and when they hit, they hit, and

2156
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:00,760
Speaker 1: when they're bad, they're awful. They're almost worse than you

2157
02:01:00,800 --> 02:01:03,560
Speaker 1: can find in any genre, right, And I think the

2158
02:01:03,640 --> 02:01:06,360
Speaker 1: same is true in horror or like any like broad

2159
02:01:06,520 --> 02:01:09,600
Speaker 1: niche genre that tends to be true. And so this

2160
02:01:09,680 --> 02:01:12,960
Speaker 1: movie is wildly dated. I understand why it is not popular.

2161
02:01:13,040 --> 02:01:16,160
Speaker 1: We watched I'm not even recommending it really, I just

2162
02:01:16,240 --> 02:01:20,640
Speaker 1: was surprised by the fact that women were presented in

2163
02:01:21,600 --> 02:01:23,800
Speaker 1: for the most part, in empathetic way, even though I

2164
02:01:23,800 --> 02:01:28,160
Speaker 1: did not agree with how everyone everyone's arc was resolved.

2165
02:01:28,720 --> 02:01:32,000
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna go too, and I'm gonna give one

2166
02:01:32,000 --> 02:01:35,080
Speaker 1: different scene because she rocks, and one to Lily because

2167
02:01:35,080 --> 02:01:38,000
Speaker 1: she deserved better. And I hope that she you know,

2168
02:01:38,440 --> 02:01:40,440
Speaker 1: divorced ned six months later or whatever.

2169
02:01:40,600 --> 02:01:41,560
Speaker 5: Fingers crossed?

2170
02:01:42,040 --> 02:01:43,800
Speaker 1: Dad, what would you give this movie?

2171
02:01:44,280 --> 02:01:44,600
Speaker 6: Oh?

2172
02:01:44,680 --> 02:01:48,960
Speaker 1: Based on his portrayal of women intersectionally.

2173
02:01:48,520 --> 02:01:51,320
Speaker 6: Boy, I have to I have to do this. I'm

2174
02:01:51,360 --> 02:01:52,680
Speaker 6: not trained. I'm not sure.

2175
02:01:53,880 --> 02:01:55,600
Speaker 5: Whatever feels right in your heart.

2176
02:01:55,880 --> 02:02:06,040
Speaker 6: Yes, I guess two just because too, well, no, just

2177
02:02:06,040 --> 02:02:09,400
Speaker 6: because too. And I have to pick characters too.

2178
02:02:09,560 --> 02:02:12,720
Speaker 5: You can do you can distribute them or you can

2179
02:02:12,840 --> 02:02:14,480
Speaker 5: keep them whatever you want to do.

2180
02:02:14,680 --> 02:02:18,080
Speaker 6: I mean, I like, I don't know, I just like

2181
02:02:18,160 --> 02:02:21,080
Speaker 6: for inscene is A is a great character, you know,

2182
02:02:21,200 --> 02:02:23,760
Speaker 6: I mean I like that part of you, know how

2183
02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:26,000
Speaker 6: she's like, you know, I don't care if you you know,

2184
02:02:26,160 --> 02:02:28,160
Speaker 6: I know you, you know, I know you as a person,

2185
02:02:28,200 --> 02:02:30,400
Speaker 6: and you know you know you might be able to

2186
02:02:30,400 --> 02:02:33,360
Speaker 6: fool everybody else, you know, but you can't fool me

2187
02:02:33,360 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 6: anymore and goes the round the way and you know again,

2188
02:02:35,640 --> 02:02:39,440
Speaker 6: missus missus Hanrahan I never remember her first. I just

2189
02:02:39,480 --> 02:02:43,280
Speaker 6: think that's a touching kind of a but that's that's

2190
02:02:43,280 --> 02:02:47,600
Speaker 6: a you know, that's quite a scene with her, and

2191
02:02:47,640 --> 02:02:51,840
Speaker 6: it's it's serious and funny, and I just really thought

2192
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 6: that that was a you know, probably back in the

2193
02:02:54,200 --> 02:02:57,000
Speaker 6: day it was like, oh, that's a gratuitous thing, you know,

2194
02:02:57,440 --> 02:03:00,840
Speaker 6: like look at this thing, but you know, looked at

2195
02:03:00,880 --> 02:03:05,520
Speaker 6: now and her story and everything like that, I think that's. Yeah.

2196
02:03:05,760 --> 02:03:06,920
Speaker 6: I don't know what to say. I can't say that

2197
02:03:07,040 --> 02:03:09,680
Speaker 6: I think that's great, but you know, I mean, it's

2198
02:03:09,720 --> 02:03:12,720
Speaker 6: it's one that like sticks with me anyway, you know.

2199
02:03:12,840 --> 02:03:14,280
Speaker 5: I know what you mean. It would be a fine

2200
02:03:14,360 --> 02:03:19,200
Speaker 5: scene if the thing that happens after it didn't happen exactly.

2201
02:03:18,880 --> 02:03:20,880
Speaker 1: Right, right. That's why it's like this movie is just

2202
02:03:20,880 --> 02:03:23,480
Speaker 1: like frustrating in that way where you're like, wow, this

2203
02:03:23,640 --> 02:03:26,600
Speaker 1: is representation or like a character you would not normally

2204
02:03:26,680 --> 02:03:28,800
Speaker 1: see in a broad comedy, but then they're treated so

2205
02:03:28,920 --> 02:03:31,960
Speaker 1: poorly that you're like, well, why why did you go

2206
02:03:32,120 --> 02:03:35,320
Speaker 1: out of your way to do that? If you were

2207
02:03:35,400 --> 02:03:37,600
Speaker 1: just going to treat them as a plot point and

2208
02:03:37,640 --> 02:03:40,440
Speaker 1: never showed them again, which I think is also inherent

2209
02:03:40,480 --> 02:03:43,160
Speaker 1: to this genre in the ways that I don't know.

2210
02:03:43,200 --> 02:03:45,360
Speaker 1: I found it especially frustrating too, because it's like I

2211
02:03:45,360 --> 02:03:49,720
Speaker 1: thought Suzanne was in the one scene she had was

2212
02:03:50,040 --> 02:03:54,720
Speaker 1: presented with empathy and she was cool, and it was like, oh,

2213
02:03:54,800 --> 02:03:57,040
Speaker 1: this is really and then like we were talking about,

2214
02:03:57,200 --> 02:04:00,960
Speaker 1: like she's treated horrifically and never get to see her again.

2215
02:04:01,000 --> 02:04:02,520
Speaker 1: We don't know what happens to her, and the movie

2216
02:04:02,520 --> 02:04:04,600
Speaker 1: doesn't really seem to have interest in it because she

2217
02:04:04,720 --> 02:04:08,280
Speaker 1: was ultimately just a plot point to get read to

2218
02:04:08,320 --> 02:04:09,560
Speaker 1: win to the next step.

2219
02:04:09,680 --> 02:04:10,240
Speaker 5: Yeah.

2220
02:04:10,280 --> 02:04:14,440
Speaker 1: So complicated, a more complicated movie than I was expecting.

2221
02:04:15,240 --> 02:04:16,960
Speaker 1: And I'm glad we talked about it.

2222
02:04:17,240 --> 02:04:20,760
Speaker 5: Yes, indeed, and thanks for joining us, sad mister Mike.

2223
02:04:21,040 --> 02:04:23,280
Speaker 6: Oh hey, thanks for having me along.

2224
02:04:23,760 --> 02:04:26,840
Speaker 1: Happy to do it. Yeah, do you have anything you

2225
02:04:26,880 --> 02:04:27,560
Speaker 1: want to plug?

2226
02:04:28,000 --> 02:04:29,680
Speaker 5: Yeah? Where can people follow you on Twitter?

2227
02:04:29,840 --> 02:04:32,280
Speaker 6: I don't have us. There's no need to follow me

2228
02:04:32,360 --> 02:04:35,880
Speaker 6: on Twitter. My uh, my days are done, my days

2229
02:04:35,880 --> 02:04:39,600
Speaker 6: of mouthing off, and I just uh, you know which,

2230
02:04:39,600 --> 02:04:41,760
Speaker 6: I didn't do that much. I was not I was

2231
02:04:41,800 --> 02:04:44,760
Speaker 6: not the king of the hot takes and now I

2232
02:04:44,800 --> 02:04:47,080
Speaker 6: am the king of the silent take. I'll just I'll

2233
02:04:47,120 --> 02:04:50,920
Speaker 6: just read along with you all. Nice well, well, you

2234
02:04:50,960 --> 02:04:53,320
Speaker 6: know I could, I could plug this, you know, this,

2235
02:04:53,320 --> 02:04:56,040
Speaker 6: this podcast, a certain book about hot dogs. You know,

2236
02:04:56,440 --> 02:04:59,040
Speaker 6: there's always something, but simply.

2237
02:04:59,640 --> 02:05:02,760
Speaker 1: Just google a book about hot Yeah. All right, well

2238
02:05:02,920 --> 02:05:07,000
Speaker 1: well Dad, I really thank you for for coming on

2239
02:05:07,040 --> 02:05:07,400
Speaker 1: the show.

2240
02:05:07,960 --> 02:05:12,000
Speaker 6: And I really can't believe you let us. You badgered

2241
02:05:12,080 --> 02:05:13,120
Speaker 6: us into doing this.

2242
02:05:13,960 --> 02:05:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm so glad we did, though I don't know. It's

2243
02:05:16,640 --> 02:05:19,440
Speaker 1: my birthday. I'm a dictator and I need to do

2244
02:05:19,480 --> 02:05:20,240
Speaker 1: whatever I want.

2245
02:05:20,400 --> 02:05:21,839
Speaker 5: Yeah, happy birthday, Jamie.

2246
02:05:22,240 --> 02:05:22,760
Speaker 1: Thank you.

2247
02:05:22,880 --> 02:05:25,320
Speaker 6: This was a way to go, jam Happy birthday.

2248
02:05:25,600 --> 02:05:30,920
Speaker 1: I remember he remembered it, and that's no I this

2249
02:05:30,920 --> 02:05:33,800
Speaker 1: this episode was very special to me, both of you,

2250
02:05:34,120 --> 02:05:36,960
Speaker 1: So thank you. I appreciate it, and I'm really glad

2251
02:05:36,960 --> 02:05:37,640
Speaker 1: we got to do it.

2252
02:05:38,600 --> 02:05:40,160
Speaker 5: Love you, Jamie, Love you too.

2253
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:42,640
Speaker 6: Way to go, Way to go. Team We did.

2254
02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:46,280
Speaker 5: We won, We won the championship game. We won.

2255
02:05:46,440 --> 02:05:49,040
Speaker 1: We we randomly did his strip tease and somehow we

2256
02:05:49,040 --> 02:05:50,040
Speaker 1: went there.

2257
02:05:50,800 --> 02:05:53,240
Speaker 6: The best podcast in the Federal League.

2258
02:05:53,560 --> 02:05:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we are kind of and I say this

2259
02:05:56,480 --> 02:05:58,480
Speaker 1: with love, we are kind of a minor league podcast.

2260
02:05:58,960 --> 02:06:02,640
Speaker 1: And and yet our fan base is intense and they

2261
02:06:02,680 --> 02:06:06,840
Speaker 1: fill the stands and we appreciate that we do because

2262
02:06:06,960 --> 02:06:08,960
Speaker 1: to be a big podcast, you have to talk about

2263
02:06:09,320 --> 02:06:11,560
Speaker 1: murder in a dishonest way and we don't do that.

2264
02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:14,520
Speaker 1: We don't. Or you have to be like a fascist,

2265
02:06:14,560 --> 02:06:18,200
Speaker 1: so it's fine, or you have to be I know

2266
02:06:18,240 --> 02:06:19,640
Speaker 1: a lot about sports and we don't.

2267
02:06:19,680 --> 02:06:23,480
Speaker 5: We clearly demonstrated that today that we do not know.

2268
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:27,000
Speaker 8: Yeah, if there was any reason that you both did,

2269
02:06:27,480 --> 02:06:28,600
Speaker 8: you both did great.

2270
02:06:28,960 --> 02:06:30,720
Speaker 5: Thank you, Thanks so much.

2271
02:06:31,800 --> 02:06:33,120
Speaker 1: You can find us on.

2272
02:06:35,400 --> 02:06:38,480
Speaker 5: We Are Nothing without the validation of men.

2273
02:06:38,600 --> 02:06:40,640
Speaker 1: It's true of dad.

2274
02:06:43,040 --> 02:06:44,240
Speaker 6: Oh no, it's so hard.

2275
02:06:44,440 --> 02:06:46,600
Speaker 5: I only I only he's crying.

2276
02:06:47,080 --> 02:06:51,040
Speaker 1: He's crying. There. You can find us online up at

2277
02:06:51,080 --> 02:06:53,920
Speaker 1: Bechdel Cast on Instagram and Twitter. You can sign up

2278
02:06:53,920 --> 02:06:58,680
Speaker 1: for Patreon aka Patreon, patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast,

2279
02:06:58,720 --> 02:07:01,680
Speaker 1: where you get two bonus epis said every month for

2280
02:07:01,840 --> 02:07:05,640
Speaker 1: mere five dollars, and also get access to about one

2281
02:07:05,720 --> 02:07:09,560
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty episodes of back catalog on the Patreon Wow.

2282
02:07:09,560 --> 02:07:12,520
Speaker 1: And it's my birthday over there this month too, so

2283
02:07:12,640 --> 02:07:16,000
Speaker 1: we really value birthdays on this podcast. So it's true.

2284
02:07:16,080 --> 02:07:19,680
Speaker 1: We'll be covering Little Shop of Horrors and a second

2285
02:07:19,760 --> 02:07:21,800
Speaker 1: one that on the day of this recording, I have

2286
02:07:21,840 --> 02:07:24,960
Speaker 1: not yet decided my second evil pick for the Patreon

2287
02:07:25,160 --> 02:07:27,560
Speaker 1: But well, I will think of something and it will

2288
02:07:27,560 --> 02:07:29,640
Speaker 1: be annoying, So head over there.

2289
02:07:29,840 --> 02:07:32,520
Speaker 6: For that, Caitlin. When it comes, happy birthday to YouTube,

2290
02:07:32,760 --> 02:07:33,160
Speaker 6: thank you.

2291
02:07:33,120 --> 02:07:38,440
Speaker 5: So much, it will be in about eight months.

2292
02:07:38,320 --> 02:07:40,880
Speaker 6: Okay, something like that, so just keep that in mind.

2293
02:07:41,240 --> 02:07:43,360
Speaker 6: It's coming. Yeah, I don't want to miss out my chance.

2294
02:07:43,440 --> 02:07:46,920
Speaker 5: Thank you so much. And you can also get our

2295
02:07:46,960 --> 02:07:50,840
Speaker 5: merch at teapublic dot com. Slash the Bechdel Cast for

2296
02:07:51,400 --> 02:07:57,360
Speaker 5: our glorious items available for purchase at any time.

2297
02:07:58,040 --> 02:08:01,680
Speaker 1: And with that, why don't we get on this local

2298
02:08:01,800 --> 02:08:05,879
Speaker 1: parade float and lie about our wives leaving us.

2299
02:08:06,520 --> 02:08:14,120
Speaker 5: Let's do it. Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

2300
02:08:14,120 --> 02:08:18,240
Speaker 5: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and Jamie Loftis,

2301
02:08:18,360 --> 02:08:22,200
Speaker 5: produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme

2302
02:08:22,240 --> 02:08:26,440
Speaker 5: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskresenski.

2303
02:08:26,960 --> 02:08:30,280
Speaker 5: Our logo in merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and

2304
02:08:30,360 --> 02:08:34,200
Speaker 5: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about

2305
02:08:34,240 --> 02:08:37,720
Speaker 5: the podcast, please visit linktree Slash Bechdel Cast