1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: A warning for our listeners. This episode contains discussion of 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: child sexual assault and of suicide. Please listen with caution 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: and care. In February of nineteen ninety four, a six 4 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: year old girl living in New Orleans complained of pain 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,439 Speaker 1: in her abdomen and pelvic region. When she was examined 6 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: at the hospital, the doctor suspected she had been sexually assaulted, 7 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: and the police were alerted. The child was questioned by 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 1: doctors and by the police without apparent present. According to 9 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 1: the doctor, when he asked who had harmed her, the 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: child named Patrick Brown, her mother's live in boyfriend. Patrick 11 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:48,720 Speaker 1: insisted that he was innocent. He would never hurt a child, 12 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 1: let alone someone in his own family. Without any corroborating evidence, 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: the prosecution relied solely on the notes taken by the doctor, 14 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 1: and after just a day, an hour and half of trial, 15 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 1: the doctor's word was enough to convince the jury to convict. 16 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 1: But this is wrongful conviction. Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. 17 00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,120 Speaker 1: I'm Tiffany Reese, host of the podcast Something Was Wrong, 18 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: sitting in for Jason flam. I am a documentarian, survivor, 19 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: and advocate, and on my audio docuseries podcast I work 20 00:01:41,440 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: with survivors of abuse and crime. Today's case tragically impacted 21 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: the lives of two people, someone who was wrongfully convicted 22 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 1: of a heinous crime and the victim of that crime 23 00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 1: who tried for decades to tell the truth that the 24 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: wrong person was in prison and was not heard. Thankfully, 25 00:01:59,320 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 1: there are two survivors in this story, and one of 26 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: them is with us today, Patrick Brown. Patrick, thank you 27 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: so much for joining us and being willing to share 28 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: your story and your experience with us today. I'd like 29 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 1: to start by just saying how sorry I am for 30 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:18,840 Speaker 1: what you've experienced. It was incredibly heartbreaking coming across your 31 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 1: story and the story of the survivor. It was clear 32 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 1: to me that you're both victims and survivors of so 33 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:29,800 Speaker 1: much systemic and legal abuse within this story, and I 34 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: think it's really brave that you're willing to share with 35 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: us after everything that you've already experienced and overcome to 36 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: be here today. So thank you so so much. 37 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: Oh, you're welcome, You're welcome. 38 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. To your attorney, Kelly Orion's, who's 39 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 1: also joining us today. Kelly, could you introduce yourself and 40 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: give us a little bit about your background before we 41 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: jump into Patrick's story. 42 00:02:51,520 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 3: Sure, sure, thank you so much for having both of 43 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: us here today. So I am the director of the 44 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 3: Decarceration and Commune to the re Entry Clinic at the 45 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 3: University of Virginia School's Law. That is a mouthful in Charlottesville, Virginia. 46 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: Patrick, I'd love to go back a bit and talk 47 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 1: a bit about you and where you were born, and 48 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,680 Speaker 1: a little bit about your background and who you were 49 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,839 Speaker 1: leading up to this horrific experience. 50 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,320 Speaker 4: I was born in New Orleans, Louisiana, braised in a 51 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:25,680 Speaker 4: lay and I I come from a good family. 52 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 2: We're a beautiful family. 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: Family was full of love, so it wasn't broken at all, 54 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 4: you know, to where my family the open arms of 55 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 4: whoever welcome and feed. 56 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,480 Speaker 2: Them, help them out. Well. 57 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 4: I wasn't no bad person, but I took a turn 58 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 4: in my life as I was growing up. That's to 59 00:03:44,440 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 4: become street hung out all night, hung with the fellas, 60 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 4: doing this, doing that, to the point to where when 61 00:03:51,960 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 4: I met my kid, mama a soldier. 62 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,280 Speaker 2: You know, everybody got to have a soldier. 63 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: How did you meet Kathy? What was your reallyationship? 64 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: Like? 65 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 4: Oh, man, I met Cat. You know, I was just 66 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 4: coming at the club and she was walking up and 67 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:09,360 Speaker 4: she was squiding me. 68 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 2: So I stopped and I say, you know, saw my 69 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 2: concerns because she's a nice looking woman. 70 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 4: And when I talked to her, we had hooked up 71 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 4: and we know, we dated having fun and you know, 72 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:27,000 Speaker 4: moved in with her like two weeks. Then the relationships 73 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 4: stuff like that, and from there to where it was 74 00:04:30,760 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 4: a beautiful relationship. She had my daughter, and the whole 75 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 4: time she was pregnant, I was just soul protective of her. 76 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 4: I don't want nobody to smoke around her. I don't 77 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 4: want nobody doing that. And I always pop up at 78 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 4: the house. She'll robot stomach, leaves back in the screels, 79 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 4: didn't come back home. It was just like like no 80 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 4: mo tea for me. And she was all the way 81 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 4: one hundred with me. But what I was one hundred 82 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 4: with her. I understand somewhat I wasn't. Somewhat I wasn't 83 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 4: because I stood in the screech all night, hustling, try 84 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 4: to provide for my family by the streets, and really 85 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,080 Speaker 4: I didn't have time for my family at home. 86 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:20,119 Speaker 1: Do you do you think like you did the best 87 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,960 Speaker 1: you could in the situation you were in at the time. 88 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: I mean you were only twenty years. 89 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,160 Speaker 2: Old, right, right in nineteen. 90 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:31,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that it's tough when you want to 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: be able to provide for your family and you feel 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: like you have limited options. I think sometimes on how. 93 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: To do that right. 94 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: Well, you know, I really had no guidance on how 95 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 4: to raise a family, how to keep up with the 96 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 4: bills and make sure. 97 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 2: That the family had med a care and I ain't 98 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 2: know about all that. 99 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,280 Speaker 4: You know, ain't nobody really hold my hand and showed 100 00:05:53,320 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 4: me how to become a man to provide for family 101 00:05:57,720 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 4: like the man supposed to do. Because when I was 102 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 4: really young, my dad had died. I really ain't had 103 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 4: no fault to figure in my life. I just went 104 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 4: on my own, try to learn from the streets. 105 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,160 Speaker 1: Did you have any previous run ins with the law? 106 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 1: You mentioned, you know, the lifestyle, but did you have 107 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 1: any like did they know who you were? 108 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:20,200 Speaker 2: When the system? 109 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 4: The system, they did know who I was because during 110 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,360 Speaker 4: the time of my arresting, during the time my trial, 111 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 4: they really gave me a figure how many times that 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 4: I had been arrested and the thirty seven times that 113 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 4: I've been arrested, was fighting and activated battery, disturbing the peace, 114 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 4: stuff like that. It wasn't have really no major crime. 115 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 4: It was like mostly missed the meanor childs. 116 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,560 Speaker 1: Yes, and nothing involving violence against children to be. 117 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,600 Speaker 2: Clear, no, no, nothing involved. 118 00:06:54,240 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: Thank you, Patrick. We're going to talk about the events 119 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: that led to your wrongful conviction. Now, I'd like to 120 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 1: remind the listeners that we'll be discussing some triggering topics 121 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: involving a minor child. To protect the privacy of the victim, 122 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 1: we are not using her real name. Instead, we'll call 123 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: her Sarah Kelly. Would you mind walking us through what 124 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: we know of the case. 125 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 3: All right, So, first, I think it's important to make 126 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 3: clear that this is a case where someone was horrifically 127 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 3: victimized and survived an awful assault, and then was revictimized 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 3: for twenty years after while she tried to tell the 129 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 3: people around her, including the district Attorney's office, that the 130 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 3: wrong person was in prison. I think it's important to 131 00:07:41,800 --> 00:07:45,080 Speaker 3: acknowledge the two ways that the victim in this case 132 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 3: was and the survivor in this case was harmed. So 133 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 3: the case starts in February of nineteen ninety four, when 134 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 3: Sarah was six years old. It was the day after 135 00:07:56,280 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 3: Marti Gras when she started complaining about discomfort and her 136 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 3: abdomen and her pelvic region. So they attempted some home 137 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 3: remedies and over the counter treatment, but that didn't work, 138 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 3: and so then she was taken in to see doctor 139 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: Ronald Wilcox. Doctor Wilcox immediately suspected that she had been 140 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 3: raped and asked doctor Maria Menna, a pediatric specialist in 141 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 3: child sex abuse, to evaluate Sarah, And so they start 142 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 3: talking to Sarah about what happened to her. What's really 143 00:08:30,680 --> 00:08:34,440 Speaker 3: critical to understand about what happens next is what is 144 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 3: actually said in the doctor's office versus what then gets 145 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 3: put onto paper and given to the police and given 146 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 3: then to the district attorney's office. And what the difference 147 00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 3: is is you have in the doctor's office a lot 148 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,320 Speaker 3: of what we would call, you know, leading questions because 149 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 3: you're dealing with a six year old girl. At the time, 150 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 3: it was recorded in the doctor's notes that she's said, 151 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: quote Patrick put his penis in me down there. Sarah 152 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 3: maintains that is not what she said, and that at 153 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 3: the hospital she was only asked who is Patrick to 154 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 3: which she responded essentially that he was her family member. 155 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 3: When NOPD detectives were called in, Sarah was also questioned 156 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 3: without a family member present. 157 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: Thank you, Kelly. So now Patrick, could you tell us 158 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: about what your experience was when you arrived at the 159 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: hospital that day with Sarah's mother. 160 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:32,200 Speaker 2: Me and Kaji arrive at the hospital to get it. 161 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 4: And when I got there, I passed the room the 162 00:09:37,280 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 4: examination room, and I seen family members in the room 163 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:47,720 Speaker 4: with Sarah to the part to where when the detectives 164 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 4: and then came out of another room and brought me 165 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,439 Speaker 4: into it. Was questioned me about it and basically questioned 166 00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 4: me about you know something that happened to the victim. 167 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: And it was asked me a question. 168 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: By do I know anything about it? And no, I 169 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 4: don't know. That's why I'm here at the hospital try 170 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 4: to find out what is the problem. 171 00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:12,440 Speaker 3: At this At this time, mister Brown is completely cooperative 172 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 3: with the police and wants to know who hurt this 173 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 3: little girl that he loves and takes care of, and 174 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:24,439 Speaker 3: so he is not at all thinking like a suspect. 175 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: He submits to various testing. 176 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 2: He waived his. 177 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: Rights to an attorney and his right to remain silent 178 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 3: and spoke to detectives without an attorney, where he denied 179 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 3: allegations that he had raped Sarah. 180 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,720 Speaker 4: I went out to the police station with him and 181 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 4: was in a room where Raeric coroper with him as 182 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 4: to answering a lot of questions to the part to 183 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 4: where they asked me, did I actually do the crime? 184 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 4: And I think I could just tell her this, lamb, 185 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,719 Speaker 4: I don't know nothing about it. The more I know 186 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 4: about it is what y'all telling me right now. And 187 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 4: I don't know nothing about it. 188 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: None of that. 189 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:06,040 Speaker 3: However, based on the statements that Sarah made, or rather 190 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 3: was alleged to have made two doctors that day, mister 191 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:15,080 Speaker 3: Brown was arrested on the charge of aggravated rape. 192 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 5: It was something unspeakable, you know, it's really speakable to 193 00:11:23,640 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 5: well get you off for something that you didn't do, 194 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 5: that did actually putting this charge on me. 195 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:35,920 Speaker 4: But some kind of way that everything parted at me 196 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 4: for some reason. I don't know why, because maybe I 197 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 4: probably do know why, because the way I was through, 198 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 4: the type of person I was, and that side of 199 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 4: the family didn't really want me to. 200 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: Be with their daughter. But like I said, she was 201 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 2: my soldier. She was my everything. 202 00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 4: You know, I would protect car. I would lose my 203 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 4: life to give hers and the kids. So I never 204 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,040 Speaker 4: talked to nobody while I was in jail about it, 205 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 4: but I was going back and forth to court with 206 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,480 Speaker 4: it and doing a pretrial investigation and all that is 207 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 4: really really kind of hurtful because it was like, this 208 00:12:31,880 --> 00:12:35,400 Speaker 4: is really actually happened. You know, you're taking me to 209 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 4: the trial behind something I did not do. And where 210 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 4: is the evidence because I ain't seen evidence at all, 211 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 4: because I know they're supposed to do a rape kit 212 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 4: and all that, and didn't no rape kit, and didn't 213 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,599 Speaker 4: no joining the blood, and did nothing to take down evidence. 214 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,400 Speaker 2: DNA and did not that. 215 00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:59,760 Speaker 3: After he was arrested, he was given a two hundred 216 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 3: and if the thousand dollars bond. His family could not 217 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 3: afford the roughly thirty thousand dollars that it would have 218 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: cost him to pay a bail bondsman, so mister Brown 219 00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 3: spent more than nine months in jail waiting to go 220 00:13:12,440 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 3: to trial. His family also could not afford an attorney, 221 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 3: so Robert Jenkins, an attorney from the Orleans Parish Indigent 222 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 3: Defender Panel, was appointed to represent mister Brown. 223 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: Can you give us a rundown of the details of 224 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:31,439 Speaker 1: the trial? December thirteenth, nineteen ninety four. Who was the judge, 225 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 1: the name of the prosecutor? 226 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely so. Mister Brown went to trial in Section A 227 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,480 Speaker 3: of Orleans Parish Criminal District Court in front of Judge 228 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:45,400 Speaker 3: Morris Reid. The prosecutor on the case was David. 229 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:48,240 Speaker 1: Wolfe, and the district Attorney at the time was the 230 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,720 Speaker 1: notorious Harry Connick Senior, who headed up the Orleans Parish 231 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:56,560 Speaker 1: DA's office from nineteen seventy three to two thousand and three. 232 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,439 Speaker 1: Jason's covered some of the many wrongful convictions that occurred 233 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: under Connick's watch on this podcast. His office was known 234 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 1: for withholding and suppressing evidence. In fact, the Innocence Project 235 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: of New Orleans estimates that during his tenure, favorable evidence 236 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: was withheld in the trials of one in four men 237 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: sent to death row. 238 00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 3: The trial started that evening with opening statements and it 239 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:27,440 Speaker 3: concluded the next day. We don't actually know the full 240 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 3: extent of what happened during the trial, because, as mister 241 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 3: Brown learned over the nearly thirty years that he fought 242 00:14:34,080 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: his conviction since his direct appeal no trial's transcript has 243 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:41,880 Speaker 3: actually been made available. When the case was reopened by 244 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: the District Attorney's office in twenty twenty three, we still 245 00:14:45,160 --> 00:14:50,600 Speaker 3: could not find a transcript despite many, many, many efforts. However, 246 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,680 Speaker 3: what we do know is that the whole trial lasted 247 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 3: about a day and a half from the time of 248 00:14:56,320 --> 00:15:00,800 Speaker 3: jury selection to the time a verdict was delivered, which, 249 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 3: when you think about it, is deeply concerning considering the 250 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 3: mandatory sentence for aggravated rape at the time and still today, 251 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 3: is life without the possibility of parole Kelly. 252 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 1: Who testified in the trial and whose behalf did they 253 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 1: testify on. 254 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,600 Speaker 3: Zarah was twice brought into the court to testify, and 255 00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 3: twice her nose started to bleed as soon as she 256 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 3: took the stand and questions began, which was something that 257 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: was really common for her at the time whenever she 258 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:36,359 Speaker 3: was in a very stressful situation, and so she was dismissed. 259 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 3: No accommodations were made for her to testify in private, 260 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:45,840 Speaker 3: and instead the state called doctor Wilcox to testify in 261 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 3: her place, and recalled doctor Wilcox was the first physician 262 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 3: to examine her. 263 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: The child being questioned in front of the whole court 264 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: instead of the judges chambers, Like, what is your opinion 265 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: on that. I mean, it's obviously so traumatic and stressful 266 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: to the child that they're having this physical reaction after 267 00:16:06,040 --> 00:16:11,200 Speaker 1: being raped. It just seems that the victim wasn't being 268 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: thought of. 269 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,040 Speaker 3: I completely agree. I think, you know, cases like this 270 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 3: are really tough because we keep courtrooms public for really 271 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,560 Speaker 3: important reasons, to make sure that crucial decisions in our 272 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 3: justice system that carry serious consequences that compromise people's liberty 273 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 3: interests do not happen in private, and when witnesses testify 274 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 3: juries are empowered to make a decision about that witness's credibility. So, 275 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:46,280 Speaker 3: to answer your question, I think there's a tension because 276 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:49,800 Speaker 3: we want to make sure that people are safe. We 277 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: want to make sure that children who have been harmed 278 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: are not re traumatized, but we also have to ensure 279 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 3: that the Constitution is followed, that liberty interests are not 280 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 3: compromised in private. That being said, I do believe that 281 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,880 Speaker 3: accommodations could have been made to make Sarah more comfortable 282 00:17:11,040 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 3: and less stressed, and that is crucial here because as 283 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,200 Speaker 3: we know, as Sarah has told us in the decades 284 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 3: since this happened. She did not say what doctor Wilcox 285 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 3: alleged that she said, and so had she had the 286 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: opportunity to testify, she would have been able to say 287 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 3: the truth. She would have been able to testify that 288 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 3: she did not accuse Patrick of rape, and that was 289 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: a very crucial fact for the jury to have. Instead, 290 00:17:41,760 --> 00:17:43,480 Speaker 3: adults testified for her. 291 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: And instead, what did the jury hear from doctor Wilcox. 292 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 3: Doctor Wilcox testified to what was in what was recorded 293 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 3: in his notes that Sarah had told him that Patrick 294 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 3: put his penis in me down there, a statement that 295 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 3: we now know and knew at the time had the 296 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,879 Speaker 3: police disclosed it, that was not was what was actually 297 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 3: said in the doctor's office. So they were able to 298 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 3: introduce the doctor's report with no scrutinity with this statement 299 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 3: that never got to be cross examined. So what happened 300 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:22,119 Speaker 3: then is she never got a chance to tell her story. 301 00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:28,600 Speaker 3: So the jury convicts mister Brown of aggravated rape in Louisiana. 302 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,959 Speaker 3: Age of the victim as an aggravating factor, and she 303 00:18:32,119 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 3: was six years old at the time that she was raped, 304 00:18:35,160 --> 00:18:37,240 Speaker 3: so he was sentenced to Manna's story life without the 305 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 3: possibility of parole, and was sent to the Louisiana State 306 00:18:42,040 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 3: Penitentiary at Angola. 307 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 4: The hardest part being incarcerated is that you lose a 308 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,439 Speaker 4: family member while you're in now, and I lost several 309 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 4: family members. 310 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,640 Speaker 2: My mom, she went to three open. 311 00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 4: House surgeries while I was incarcerated, and some people that 312 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: really loved me, like my grandmother, my aunt's cousins, they 313 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 4: passed away while I was incarcerated. 314 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 2: And that's the hardest part to where. 315 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:36,919 Speaker 4: They didn't want let you go out, to go to 316 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 4: any funerals or none of that, and with the type 317 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:46,160 Speaker 4: of charge that they placed me on, you know, kind 318 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 4: of restrict me from everything to where at a certain 319 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,840 Speaker 4: age I had to see my daughter once she get older, 320 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,160 Speaker 4: and any one of my family members, they can't come 321 00:19:55,160 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 4: in as a child. 322 00:19:57,600 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: Those certain things I couldn't do. 323 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 4: I couldn't go around certain people, certain jobs I can't 324 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 4: have because of the charge. 325 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm incredibly sorry that you experienced that. That must have 326 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:15,240 Speaker 1: been so hard to be stigmatized like that, and for 327 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: something you did not do. 328 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 4: From the time my cuceration, you know, I had to 329 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 4: try to make it work for me. 330 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:24,040 Speaker 2: I had to. 331 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 4: Due to the times that and let the time do 332 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:30,159 Speaker 4: me so at the time I was in there, you know, 333 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 4: I educated myself. I become a better person, becomes a mentor, 334 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 4: and I'm becoming helping a lot of people out there 335 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:43,160 Speaker 4: at a GOOLA even down to from the Oufenity security staff. 336 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 2: To where I got to know them and they got 337 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,439 Speaker 2: to know me, and they see that I'm not a 338 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 2: really bad. 339 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 4: Person, you know, from that part from being that goal 340 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 4: of being it's separing criticism from a lot of dudes 341 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,480 Speaker 4: that's around now. Really nothing really came hurt me no 342 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 4: more because I'm all crowd out from that and anything 343 00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 4: that's not positive, I just don't want to be around it. 344 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 4: But on my coaster that you know, they had dues 345 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 4: there and they were going through a lot of things 346 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 4: that they need mentor that he talked to and especially 347 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 4: that's what I did. At one point in time in 348 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,000 Speaker 4: my life, I did lost hope. I did lost I 349 00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 4: hope to where I wouldn't come home, I wasn't gonna 350 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 4: be with my family again. And I had looted in 351 00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 4: my mind to not be a commodity to the system 352 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 4: to where you're just holding me there and collecting money 353 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 4: off of me, and I'm doing this and doing that 354 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 4: to keep a prison function to where dang I ain't 355 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 4: had them a hope because you know it ain't goal 356 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 4: inside of prison. Contraband comes and goes in there, and 357 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 4: the most dealy contraband that they had in there was 358 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 4: that fit now, and that fit now into the prison 359 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 4: to where I did wanted to take that just the 360 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,159 Speaker 4: end this life because I didn't want that type of 361 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:13,520 Speaker 4: life inside of a system behind something I did not do. 362 00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,640 Speaker 4: And then you know, when I got there, dude, say 363 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 4: life mean lock in forever. Man, I ain't no going home. 364 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,960 Speaker 4: The next place I would be was a party. Lookout, 365 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,920 Speaker 4: mister penitentious cemetery. That's what I was gonna be. Never 366 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 4: still going to be incocerated. 367 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 1: What kept you going? Patrick? 368 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,000 Speaker 2: What gave you hope? 369 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 4: My family kept coming. It's fishing me talk to my 370 00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 4: daughter every day on the phone. My daughter was a 371 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 4: month and eight days old when I got arrested. From 372 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 4: that time, she was just a baby. She don't know 373 00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,720 Speaker 4: nothing about the charge. And she fought for me too. 374 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: She fought to keep me well, I keep hope going. 375 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 4: She wanted her daddy. That kept me going down with 376 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 4: my heart. She kept me going, she kept me fight, 377 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:07,679 Speaker 4: ca me find this to be with them, so she 378 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 4: could have a fault in our life. 379 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: So if you could, Kelly, speak to uh, if you 380 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:18,639 Speaker 1: recall when you first heard about mister Brown's case, what 381 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,439 Speaker 1: stood out to you like as a human and what 382 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 1: drew you to essentially work on the case and kind 383 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,600 Speaker 1: of like how your relationship started those early days. 384 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 3: So I got a call on March twenty fourth of 385 00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three from the District Attorney's office, Jason William's office. 386 00:23:37,160 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 3: It was specifically from Assistant District Attorney Emily maw who 387 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 3: is the head of the civil rights division in the office. 388 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: And I was asked if I was available to come 389 00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 3: in immediately, and I was told that a young woman 390 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,800 Speaker 3: had just come into their office and had essentially said 391 00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 3: that the wrong person was in prison for raping her. 392 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 3: That's a pretty extraordinary call to get. You don't often 393 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 3: say no when a district attorney's office calls you as 394 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,359 Speaker 3: a defense attorney and says we think we have someone 395 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,880 Speaker 3: in prison who shouldn't be there. I didn't need much 396 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:11,840 Speaker 3: more information than that. 397 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:15,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, So what did they tell you when you 398 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: got to their office. 399 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 3: On that day. What we knew is that in two 400 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 3: thousand and two, when Sarah was fourteen years old, was 401 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 3: when she first attempted to get the District Attorney's office 402 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 3: to listen to her about the fact that the wrong 403 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 3: man was in prison for raping her. She explained that 404 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 3: she estimated that she had written at least one hundred 405 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 3: letters to the District Attorney's office. 406 00:24:41,240 --> 00:24:44,880 Speaker 1: And the DA at that time was still Harry Connick Senior. 407 00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 3: In twenty fifteen, she submitted an affidavit to the District 408 00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 3: Attorney's office at this time led by Leon Canazero, declaring 409 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 3: that mister Brown was not the person who raped her 410 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:00,720 Speaker 3: and identifying by name the man who did. She remembers 411 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 3: going to the DA's office at least four times, but 412 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 3: it wasn't until the fourth time, on March twenty fourth, 413 00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three, that someone in that office actually decided 414 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,520 Speaker 3: to listen to her. 415 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: And that was, of course, after Leon Connazaro had been 416 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: succeeded as a district attorney by Jason Williams, who was 417 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: elected in twenty twenty. 418 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 3: And they immediately began reinvestigating her case. And I think 419 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 3: what was most important to the investigators and to myself 420 00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:39,240 Speaker 3: was Sarah's incredible credibility, her ability to recall in detail 421 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,600 Speaker 3: the efforts that she had made over more than two 422 00:25:42,680 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 3: decades to undo this injustice and for the truth to 423 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 3: be accepted by the DA's office. And part of what 424 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 3: also bolstered her credibility was how deeply deeply harmed she 425 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 3: was by having this truth ignored. 426 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: What drew me to this story or this you know, 427 00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: hearing about mister Brown's experiences and Sarah's experience is that 428 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: it really highlights how important it is to listen to 429 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: survivors and for their voices to be heard. And you know, 430 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: on the other side of that, the detriment that can 431 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 1: happen to us when we're not heard. Two and a 432 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,239 Speaker 1: half perpetrators out of one hundred that rape actually end 433 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,160 Speaker 1: up in prison. That's the current statistics. And I mean, 434 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: working with survivors every day, I know that, like the 435 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 1: trust just isn't there that the effort will be meaningful 436 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: and it won't just do more harm. And I think 437 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: that's a really sad reality and a place to be, 438 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:52,879 Speaker 1: but it's one that we need to sit with because 439 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,080 Speaker 1: it's so important that we address it because it's absolutely 440 00:26:56,119 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 1: not okay. It's absolutely not okay, and it's just a 441 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: very heartbreaking, very heartbreaking example of the many cracks within 442 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:13,199 Speaker 1: the system. Kelly, What was the post conviction process like 443 00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 1: that led you from taking this case on to ultimately 444 00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:19,359 Speaker 1: mister Brown's release. 445 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,920 Speaker 3: One thing that I think is very important and I 446 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 3: want to throw it in there, is that mister Brown 447 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:28,679 Speaker 3: litigated his case himself for two decades. In fact, the 448 00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 3: petition that was granted on May eighth was actually the 449 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 3: one that mister Brown filed himself pro see over a 450 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 3: year before this hearing. In it, he argued factual innocence 451 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 3: under a very new law in Louisiana that allows you 452 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: to plead factual innocence. So the DA's office actually filed 453 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 3: their response to mister Brown's pro say petition, and before 454 00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 3: they did this, they reviewed all of the available records. 455 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,480 Speaker 3: They reinterviewed witnesses, consulted with law enforcement, and spent a 456 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,240 Speaker 3: considerable amount of time listening to Sarah and assessing her 457 00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:08,480 Speaker 3: credibility as well as verifying the details in the story 458 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 3: that she told them. After reviewing all available records, they 459 00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 3: found clear and convincing evidence that mister Brown was factually innocent, 460 00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 3: and based on their filing their response to mister Brown's 461 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:24,880 Speaker 3: pro say petition, they found a few things. Most compelling 462 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 3: those were the fact that Sarah stated unequivocally and on 463 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 3: multiple occasions that mister Brown was not the man who 464 00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: raped her. Also that in twenty fifteen, she submitted a 465 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,239 Speaker 3: sworn affidavit to the DA's office, in it stating that 466 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: mister Brown was not the person who raped her and 467 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:46,479 Speaker 3: naming the person that did. They also considered testimony and 468 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 3: statements from the time the case was pre trial that 469 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 3: indicated that during a fight with the victim's mother, a 470 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 3: man gloated about raping Sarah and about the fact that 471 00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 3: mister Brown was doing time for the crime. 472 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: That sounds like it would have been a pretty major 473 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,200 Speaker 1: incident for the defense to explore, but somehow the jury 474 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 1: never heard about it. Can you tell us more about 475 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: that exchange and why it was not brought up a trial? 476 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 3: So this fight occurred well before the child, near the 477 00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,640 Speaker 3: time that mister Brown was indicted on the charge of 478 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,560 Speaker 3: aggravated rape. The prosecution was aware of this fight. It 479 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 3: is not entirely clear how accurately that evidence was provided 480 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,600 Speaker 3: to the defense. We know definitively that the fact that 481 00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 3: there were witnesses to this fight and witnesses to this 482 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 3: admission that was not disclosed to the defense. 483 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 1: And what was said during the fight that was significant. 484 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:51,080 Speaker 4: He stated, I know that your daughter has got rape 485 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 4: and I ain't gonna be the one to do the time. 486 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 3: For and I believe he also said, you know that 487 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 3: mister Brown is doing time for somebody else's crime. And 488 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,400 Speaker 3: it's just it's almost irrefutable, right, Like that's a very 489 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:08,880 Speaker 3: relevant fact for a jury to hear and understand. This 490 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 3: is the same man that Sarah stated raped her in 491 00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 3: the affidavit that she gave to the DA's office in 492 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 3: twenty fifteen. They submitted this information to the court and 493 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 3: on May eighth, an evidentiary hearing was held. And so 494 00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,880 Speaker 3: when Sarah took the stand to testify, she was able 495 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 3: to look at mister Brown, who was sitting at the 496 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,400 Speaker 3: table next to me, and she told the court about 497 00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 3: her twenty year effort to be able to sit where 498 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 3: she was that day and tell the truth of what 499 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,240 Speaker 3: happened to her. At the end of that hearing, Judge 500 00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:48,160 Speaker 3: Calvin Johnson delivered his ruling and before he did, he 501 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,960 Speaker 3: addressed Sarah and mister Brown directly, and I'll never forget 502 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 3: what he said, and I want to repeat it verbatim. 503 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 3: He said the state was complicit in the harm and 504 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 3: horror that Sarah endured. He then vacated mister Brown's conviction 505 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: and granted mister Brown a new trial, and Emily maw 506 00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 3: the Chief of the Civil Rights Division, immediately revised the 507 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 3: bill of information that was filed against him in nineteen 508 00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 3: ninety four and immediately dismissed the charges. That day, he 509 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 3: was able to hug Sarah, he was able to hug 510 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 3: his family, and he was able to walk out of 511 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 3: the front steps and not have to go back to Angola. 512 00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:30,000 Speaker 1: Patrick, I can't imagine what it must have felt like 513 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,120 Speaker 1: to be in that courtroom with Sarah and to hear 514 00:31:33,160 --> 00:31:38,560 Speaker 1: her testimony, and for both of you, after almost thirty years, 515 00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: to finally be heard. 516 00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:44,360 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it was. 517 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 4: Unbelievable. It was beautiful. I know that this person came 518 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 4: out and being hurd you know what kind of helped 519 00:31:56,600 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 4: heal me. Heal me a whole lot so well. Once 520 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:02,760 Speaker 4: she gave a test, moment she finished gaving a TESTI 521 00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 4: moment she came up and she hugged me. And once 522 00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,040 Speaker 4: she hugged me in the court room, I felt her pain, 523 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 4: she felt mine. She told me that she was sorry 524 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,719 Speaker 4: that I have to go through it. I told her 525 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 4: that I was sorry too, that I wouldn't death for 526 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 4: I got supposed to. She said that she loved me. 527 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 4: I told her that I love her back. 528 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 2: Sae say, you never go back there. I know you 529 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,920 Speaker 2: never go back. I told her that I'll never leave again. 530 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: Only way that I leave from this place. 531 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Oh my goodness, thank you so 532 00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: so much for your time and your willingness. It is 533 00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: incredibly brave to be this vulnerable in such a public way, 534 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:12,000 Speaker 1: and I just want to hold space and acknowledge that 535 00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 1: what you did today is an incredibly big thing. And 536 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 1: I wish you and your family all of the best 537 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:24,280 Speaker 1: in the future. And yeah, thank you so so much. 538 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 1: We also want to let our listeners know that there's 539 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: a GoFundMe page to help you get back on your feet. 540 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,560 Speaker 1: So listeners, if you want to show your support for 541 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,640 Speaker 1: Patrick as he starts this new chapter in his life, 542 00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: please look for Patrick Brown on GoFundMe dot com or 543 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:47,040 Speaker 1: go to the link in our episode Bio. Now, this 544 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,320 Speaker 1: is the part of the show that we call closing arguments. 545 00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,680 Speaker 1: We'd like to hear your final thoughts, anything at all 546 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: that you want to share with listeners or that you 547 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,360 Speaker 1: hope listeners will take away from hearing this story. Kelly, 548 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,320 Speaker 1: can we hear you're closing arguments first, and then we'll 549 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:03,240 Speaker 1: hear from Patrick. 550 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 3: This is the first exoneration that I have ever been 551 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:13,400 Speaker 3: involved in, and I am horrified by what I have 552 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:18,000 Speaker 3: learned through this process. I also think it's really important 553 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,359 Speaker 3: to remember that what happened to mister Brown is a 554 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:28,680 Speaker 3: symptom of a diseased system that puts not only people 555 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 3: who are factually innocent in prison, but puts people in 556 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 3: prison who should not be there in the first place, 557 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,960 Speaker 3: people who have caused harm, but who also have a 558 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:48,720 Speaker 3: larger story, who have a story that is often rarely 559 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:53,920 Speaker 3: ever heard, usually until decades later. And so I hope 560 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,319 Speaker 3: that mister Brown's story will inspire us not just to 561 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:00,920 Speaker 3: look at the cases of people who are actually innocent, 562 00:35:01,320 --> 00:35:03,920 Speaker 3: but the cases of all people who are in prison, 563 00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:08,759 Speaker 3: to question and continue questioning is prison really an answer 564 00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 3: and an effective answer to the harm that's occurring in 565 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,960 Speaker 3: our community. It has been, in my experience, a one 566 00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 3: hundred and fifty year experiment that has failed. It has 567 00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,600 Speaker 3: not served people that have been harmed. It has not 568 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 3: brought justice to victims and survivors. I know that we 569 00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 3: can do better. I believe that we can do better, 570 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,279 Speaker 3: and I hope that all of us will be inspired 571 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:31,719 Speaker 3: to take a second look at this system that we 572 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,160 Speaker 3: have become so dependent on and taken for granted, and 573 00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 3: challenge ourselves to radically reimagine what justice and safety and 574 00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,640 Speaker 3: health look like in our communities and try to do 575 00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:52,240 Speaker 3: so much better than we have done. 576 00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:56,200 Speaker 4: To allur listeners, Adele, be mindful what should do because 577 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,400 Speaker 4: just saying I heard that person they hurt out of 578 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 4: people's be truthful to yourself and others to the point 579 00:36:05,200 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 4: to where we need to stop all the nonsense and 580 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:13,399 Speaker 4: be straightforward with ourselves. That's not putting an instant person 581 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,920 Speaker 4: in jail. Let's stop the folence. Let's just stop all 582 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 4: that because it ain't worth it. We all just come together, 583 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 4: no matter and I we love no color race. Get along. 584 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 4: It's time for us people to get along and enjoy 585 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,480 Speaker 4: life and George's beautiful world that God gave us because 586 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 4: we don't have nothing. You know, who else can we 587 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,359 Speaker 4: depend on? We basically depend on the people that's around us. 588 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,840 Speaker 4: You know, we don't know nobody until we open our 589 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:48,680 Speaker 4: mouth and start communicate. I want to start communicating, we 590 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:49,479 Speaker 4: start learning people. 591 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 6: We have a better world. And I really appreciate you 592 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 6: all listening and have a good heart of your heart 593 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 6: to life itself. Hope y'all have a good heart. 594 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Wrongful Conviction. You can listen 595 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,879 Speaker 1: to this and all Lava for Good podcasts one week 596 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: early by subscribing to Lava for Good Plus on Apple Podcasts. 597 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: I'd like to thank executive producers Jason Flam, Jeff Kempler, 598 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:30,000 Speaker 1: and Kevin Wardis for inviting me to sit in today, 599 00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 1: and thanks to our production team Connor Hall, Annie Chelsea, 600 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,640 Speaker 1: Leila Robinson, and Kathleen Fink. The music in this production 601 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:43,040 Speaker 1: was supplied by three time OSCAR nominated composer Jay Ralph. 602 00:37:43,800 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: Be sure to follow us across all social media platforms 603 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: at Lava for Good and at Wrongful Conviction. You can 604 00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 1: follow me Tiffany Reese at Lookiboo and listen to my 605 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:58,920 Speaker 1: podcast Something Was Wrong. Wherever you get your podcasts. Wrongful 606 00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 1: Conviction is a production of Lava for Good Podcasts in 607 00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,359 Speaker 1: association with Signal Company Number one