1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680
Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

2
00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080
Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

3
00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079
Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A

4
00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:26,240
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show.

5
00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,160
Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called

6
00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,080
Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer

7
00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:36,479
Speaker 1: Alexis code name Doc Holiday Jackson. Most importantly, you are you.

8
00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:39,839
Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't

9
00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:43,320
Speaker 1: want you to know. If you are a long time

10
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:48,080
Speaker 1: or habitual listener, first, thank you. Secondly, you know that

11
00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:52,479
Speaker 1: this is our listener mail portion of the week. This

12
00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:57,760
Speaker 1: is where we take a big stew of all these voicemails,

13
00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 1: all these emails, all the weird messages scrawled on our

14
00:01:03,000 --> 00:01:06,840
Speaker 1: mirrors in the dark by invisible hands of your fellow listeners.

15
00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:11,759
Speaker 1: We share them with you. Today. We've got Today, We've

16
00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,800
Speaker 1: got some some great stuff. Uh. We've got some stuff

17
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:18,680
Speaker 1: about Mattress Firm update that we were not expecting. We've

18
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,600
Speaker 1: got I think a very well intentioned series of questions

19
00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:27,400
Speaker 1: about parlor. And we've got some mind blowing stuff about

20
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:30,760
Speaker 1: the nature of reality. If you want to be pretentious

21
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:36,080
Speaker 1: about it, uh, and the latitude society, so off Mike Folks, Uh,

22
00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:40,679
Speaker 1: Matt Noll and code named Doc and I. We usually

23
00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: spend a few minutes uh, shooting the breeze before we

24
00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,520
Speaker 1: get into this and and talking about how we feel,

25
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,400
Speaker 1: uh we should order these things. We do our best

26
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 1: to make it feel like a cohesive, coherent thing. Not

27
00:01:56,320 --> 00:02:00,840
Speaker 1: too many downers, not too many uppers, I guess either. Uh.

28
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:04,520
Speaker 1: But Matt, this this correspondence you received, I think we

29
00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:07,480
Speaker 1: all agreed this was something that was worth responding to.

30
00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 1: What do you think? Oh? For sure, two things we

31
00:02:10,520 --> 00:02:15,079
Speaker 1: all received it, Mr Bolan. We But the second thing,

32
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,200
Speaker 1: paramount to any discussions on order of how we're going

33
00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 1: to do this, is that we are all really hungry

34
00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 1: and want chicken wings from the local. If you're in Atlanta,

35
00:02:25,200 --> 00:02:28,359
Speaker 1: go to the local. For the love of God, to

36
00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:32,000
Speaker 1: the local. The local has done so much for our show.

37
00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:37,800
Speaker 1: We know everyone who works there. Uh. We you know

38
00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,280
Speaker 1: it's the pandemic day is so we don't get there

39
00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,480
Speaker 1: too too often. But back in the day, I would say,

40
00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:47,920
Speaker 1: without hyperbole, we did some of our best brainstorming at

41
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:50,639
Speaker 1: the local. I don't know if we all remembered all

42
00:02:50,639 --> 00:02:53,480
Speaker 1: of them. I'll tell you what I do. Remember though,

43
00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:02,720
Speaker 1: is dry rub lemon pepper wings. No, No, that's the one. No,

44
00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,440
Speaker 1: that's the one, dry rub sun dried, thank you sun

45
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:07,720
Speaker 1: dry dry up. But this time, if I do this,

46
00:03:07,840 --> 00:03:10,519
Speaker 1: if I do this crazy thing that I'm contemplating doing

47
00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:13,320
Speaker 1: after we record, I'm gonna do half dry and half wet.

48
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,679
Speaker 1: Go for it. Who's going to stop you? All right?

49
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,480
Speaker 1: So wait? Wait one more thing though, Because we are

50
00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 1: talking about a place that we all love and miss dearly,

51
00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,040
Speaker 1: including code ename Doc, is that on this to also

52
00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:31,320
Speaker 1: a local fan? Uh? I do want to point out

53
00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:34,080
Speaker 1: you guys that some of those folks do listen to

54
00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:38,440
Speaker 1: this show. And I know that because pre pandemic, when

55
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:41,320
Speaker 1: it was like our happy hour spot, every so often

56
00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:43,440
Speaker 1: one of our friends who works there would come in

57
00:03:43,480 --> 00:03:45,880
Speaker 1: and like talk trash to us if we had done

58
00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,880
Speaker 1: not done well on an episode, slap us around a

59
00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:54,720
Speaker 1: little bit, even snarky cheers, real world iTunes reviews in

60
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,960
Speaker 1: real time, I did it. Uh So, speaking speaking of

61
00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,000
Speaker 1: a kind of view, that's what this next message is.

62
00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:04,800
Speaker 1: But it's also it's it's in. It's coming from a

63
00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,480
Speaker 1: very good place, and I think it's worth us all

64
00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,280
Speaker 1: contemplating it. So we're gonna do that together. Now, Hey, guys,

65
00:04:10,280 --> 00:04:12,640
Speaker 1: a long time listener, love what you do, you love

66
00:04:12,720 --> 00:04:15,320
Speaker 1: your stance. I will say that I feel like and

67
00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm not supportive of anything that happened in the Capitol.

68
00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:21,920
Speaker 1: I think it's surrendous to the US government. It's just

69
00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:25,880
Speaker 1: happen to face deal politically. But I thought the commentary

70
00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,520
Speaker 1: and discussion on Parlor nor was I remember in order

71
00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: to supported about it being a free market alives. The

72
00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:38,719
Speaker 1: fact that Twitter was effectively used in a similar manners

73
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:43,320
Speaker 1: in Egypt endered the Arab Springs riots to overthrow a government.

74
00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:46,840
Speaker 1: And I feel like we're in the glory line of

75
00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,360
Speaker 1: social media. Yes, being private industry, but if you go

76
00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:56,440
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, you're gonna see the influence political

77
00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,919
Speaker 1: messaging in that enemage. So to draw a firm line

78
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,839
Speaker 1: in one case for one platform, well, at the same

79
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:08,400
Speaker 1: time you work articles from Jack Dorsey on Twitter preferring

80
00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 1: to his engagement, involvement and basically relationships with Twitter, the

81
00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:18,960
Speaker 1: government and political change. I don't think that conversation was

82
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,880
Speaker 1: fully fleshed out or not. I love basically all that

83
00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,680
Speaker 1: you do. I work for a same tech Company. I

84
00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:29,640
Speaker 1: feel like there are issues with scalability. You could go

85
00:05:29,680 --> 00:05:31,799
Speaker 1: on Instagram now and find the heading of the heavy.

86
00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:37,120
Speaker 1: You could don't find any number of racial, geo political

87
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,520
Speaker 1: I don't gore toasts because of the inability of Tech company,

88
00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:46,240
Speaker 1: the police throwing systems of scalability. But I feel like

89
00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:52,239
Speaker 1: that conversation of the relationship of pervasive influence of social media,

90
00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,599
Speaker 1: it's not an accurate analogy to compare it to no shirts,

91
00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,679
Speaker 1: no shoes, no service because the spotting down the slide

92
00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,679
Speaker 1: at McDonald's that words did not have the potential political

93
00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:13,560
Speaker 1: ample the democratified wish it man. I think our boy

94
00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:18,120
Speaker 1: was on a jog. They're definitely running his bottom off.

95
00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,080
Speaker 1: He he was, he was working guys. We made that point, though,

96
00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,400
Speaker 1: I have to say about the Arab spring thing and

97
00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 1: the and the comparison, we would definitely discuss that angle.

98
00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,440
Speaker 1: We did. We did make that point. And you know, oftentimes,

99
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,200
Speaker 1: um people will call in, maybe you'll call in in

100
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:37,000
Speaker 1: the middle of an episode of or you know, after

101
00:06:37,200 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: the discussion kind of begins to kick off and and

102
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,160
Speaker 1: give us some input before we conclude some things, and

103
00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,080
Speaker 1: that that does happen sometimes. Well, I'm not exactly sure

104
00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:49,560
Speaker 1: if that's the case here, but I think the biggest

105
00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:53,120
Speaker 1: the biggest point and I don't mean to speak for you,

106
00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:55,720
Speaker 1: a person who just called in should tell us this,

107
00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:57,960
Speaker 1: but it feels like the biggest point here is about

108
00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:03,600
Speaker 1: scalability of kind of open platforms, of like social media

109
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:07,600
Speaker 1: platforms that are based on the concept of anyone being

110
00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:11,480
Speaker 1: able to post anything and exercise their freedom of speech

111
00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:15,800
Speaker 1: and then so so starting at that place of openness

112
00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,480
Speaker 1: and then attempting to scale in order to make a

113
00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:26,160
Speaker 1: profitable business um and the major problems within within that system. Essentially,

114
00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:28,840
Speaker 1: it's interesting because it's like, how can It's hard to

115
00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:32,160
Speaker 1: have it both ways with the system that we currently have.

116
00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,600
Speaker 1: We're on the one hand, this this is a privately

117
00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 1: owned company, you know that that has the right has

118
00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 1: terms of services and has the right to interpret those

119
00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:43,480
Speaker 1: terms of services. And then you even have like I

120
00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:46,520
Speaker 1: think it's Facebook that has like almost like an independent

121
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,760
Speaker 1: review board to make decisions so that they can kind

122
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,840
Speaker 1: of say, okay, we have this board that's making these decisions,

123
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,280
Speaker 1: so it's not just us, it's not happening in a vacuum.

124
00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,520
Speaker 1: But at the same time, Facebook and Twitter and Instagram

125
00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,720
Speaker 1: and all these companies. They are private companies that people

126
00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,640
Speaker 1: can choose to be a part of. But La Caller

127
00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,559
Speaker 1: is absolutely right. There comes a point where that genie

128
00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 1: is out of the bottle or we cross some line

129
00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:14,160
Speaker 1: and they're no longer just a private company. They absolutely

130
00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 1: have this scale of influence that's really really difficult to

131
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:22,480
Speaker 1: control when you just treat them in that way. Wouldn't

132
00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,720
Speaker 1: you agree? Yes, I go further here. So first off, Anonymous,

133
00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,360
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Ben. This this kind of stuff

134
00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:35,200
Speaker 1: is something that I really appreciate because it these are

135
00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,040
Speaker 1: questions made in good faith, and you're doing one of

136
00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 1: the best things an audience can do for any show,

137
00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,480
Speaker 1: even a little show like ours. You're keeping us honest,

138
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:48,080
Speaker 1: and I appreciate the opportunity to return to this exploration.

139
00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,880
Speaker 1: It's a Gordy not you know, it's a capital D

140
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,800
Speaker 1: dilemma because Parlor. You're right. We we talk the way

141
00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,240
Speaker 1: that we talked about Parlor to Knowle's point, We we

142
00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:00,480
Speaker 1: hit some of those those points you meant, and but

143
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:06,080
Speaker 1: we also talked about the preponderance of these UH extremist

144
00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,520
Speaker 1: beliefs on that network, and we talked about the problem

145
00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:12,840
Speaker 1: of private entities. I will say this by the way,

146
00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:17,440
Speaker 1: I think most people would be uh surprised just how

147
00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,800
Speaker 1: in the pocket of government many social media outlets are

148
00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,200
Speaker 1: five eyes never went away, you know what I mean.

149
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: And while this stuff may seem like a cool neiaque

150
00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,800
Speaker 1: community to us, you know, we've got that slot machine

151
00:09:31,920 --> 00:09:34,840
Speaker 1: addiction mentality, how many likes do I get on my post?

152
00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 1: We have to understand it's a very different thing to governments.

153
00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,199
Speaker 1: Social media is a weapon, and it is naive to

154
00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,400
Speaker 1: assume that it would not be used as such by

155
00:09:44,559 --> 00:09:47,959
Speaker 1: a large state level entity with the ability for the

156
00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: opportunity to do so. With that in mind, parlor itself

157
00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:55,680
Speaker 1: like if you look at Parlor, it doesn't build itself

158
00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:01,520
Speaker 1: as some kind of like extremists Nazis winter their official

159
00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:07,920
Speaker 1: stance is slash was no censorship, full stop. Yeah, they're

160
00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:10,760
Speaker 1: they're like the social media platform of free speech. Just

161
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,800
Speaker 1: kind of how they're positioning themselves, you know, and understandably

162
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 1: so given what's going on the other platforms. So they

163
00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:20,040
Speaker 1: have kind of a niche they're jumping into fill m hmm. Yeah.

164
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,360
Speaker 1: And then I think we talked about this years and

165
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,360
Speaker 1: years ago, and it still strikes me as so true.

166
00:10:27,320 --> 00:10:30,080
Speaker 1: We used to we used to dive into four chan

167
00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,959
Speaker 1: when we had to get some really weird research. And

168
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,760
Speaker 1: four chan is one of the best arguments against true

169
00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:43,360
Speaker 1: democracy right now, now I see your face there. What

170
00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,199
Speaker 1: do I mean by that? I mean it's it's government

171
00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:49,360
Speaker 1: of the masses. Anyone could post right in theory before

172
00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,079
Speaker 1: a bunch of changes were made, and you see, um,

173
00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,120
Speaker 1: you see democracy, but you don't see accountability because people

174
00:10:57,240 --> 00:11:03,160
Speaker 1: can be relatively anonymous. And maybe that's maybe that's part

175
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,040
Speaker 1: of the puzzle. Maybe that's a missing piece here. Maybe

176
00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:13,319
Speaker 1: maybe there's a world where people can go onto censorship

177
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,640
Speaker 1: free platforms but have to have their own identities, some

178
00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 1: sort of transparency. But then again, that's such overreach, is

179
00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:25,000
Speaker 1: it not? Like it's it's a crazy amount of big Also,

180
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,880
Speaker 1: we know how difficult it is to actually prove that

181
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:33,320
Speaker 1: someone quote unquote incited behavior. Right, Um, so at one point,

182
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,439
Speaker 1: at what point, where's the sniff test? Where is the

183
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:39,559
Speaker 1: like hard line on the sand, whether morally or just

184
00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:44,719
Speaker 1: like contextually of what constitutes hate speech? Like again, this

185
00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:50,640
Speaker 1: like body that Facebook um has as employed. They determined

186
00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,719
Speaker 1: that some posts that were flagged were in fact not

187
00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:56,599
Speaker 1: hate speech. So the fact that it's a question to

188
00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,439
Speaker 1: begin with is interesting. And so it's like, to the

189
00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:02,720
Speaker 1: caller's point, it's like, where is the line in the sand?

190
00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 1: Where how do we know unequivocally this is being censored

191
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,360
Speaker 1: because it's actually inciting, because you know what I mean,

192
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,960
Speaker 1: because there's some beeds about like closing off certain ideologies

193
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:17,319
Speaker 1: that are may be less appealing to you. That's another point, Like, okay,

194
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:22,600
Speaker 1: to the point about defining incitements. If the local gets

195
00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:28,839
Speaker 1: overrun by a ravenous mob right chasing chicken wings, is

196
00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:32,319
Speaker 1: that our fault because we just talked kind of in

197
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,679
Speaker 1: depth about how much we like the place. Yeah, well,

198
00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,400
Speaker 1: we didn't tell people go. Now, well, we did say

199
00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,360
Speaker 1: get ye to the local. We did say that. We

200
00:12:42,440 --> 00:12:48,720
Speaker 1: did literally say that, And I take full responsibility. Alright, alright,

201
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,800
Speaker 1: Mr Kennedy. But but still, at what point does the

202
00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:56,640
Speaker 1: critical mass take over? You know, we weed planted the seed,

203
00:12:57,040 --> 00:13:00,600
Speaker 1: but are we responsible for the outcome If we literally

204
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:02,839
Speaker 1: just said chicken wings are great, go get you some

205
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:05,199
Speaker 1: chicken wings at our favorite spot, and then all of

206
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,040
Speaker 1: a sudden, like if it becomes a matter of the

207
00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:10,080
Speaker 1: scale of our audience, and then maybe we were irresponsible

208
00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,160
Speaker 1: with asking our entire audience and then all of a sudden,

209
00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:14,760
Speaker 1: how are we to know that everyone would go all

210
00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,480
Speaker 1: at once and there'd be like a you know, a

211
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:20,520
Speaker 1: run on chicken wings. And so guys just gonna pat

212
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,280
Speaker 1: myself on the back for making that our earlier local

213
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,600
Speaker 1: reference applicable. So it's not just us talking about these

214
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:31,319
Speaker 1: again amazing chicken wings with it can't you're not sponsored

215
00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:35,760
Speaker 1: by them, and they have all these different I don't

216
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:38,920
Speaker 1: want to we we we were. We've been shredded a

217
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 1: little bit in the iTunes comments for that episode, people

218
00:13:42,760 --> 00:13:46,120
Speaker 1: almost saying that we're like being apologists for these rioters,

219
00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,280
Speaker 1: and I don't think that's a fair or true at all.

220
00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:51,080
Speaker 1: I Mean, our job on the show is to try

221
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,560
Speaker 1: to have perspective, to have critical thinking when it comes

222
00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,680
Speaker 1: to these conspiracy theories and conspiracies and conspiracy facts and events.

223
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:03,360
Speaker 1: But uh, these are interesting questions and it's not about

224
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,760
Speaker 1: whether you agree with or disagree with an ideology the

225
00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,120
Speaker 1: idea of where free speech begins and ends and what

226
00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:13,480
Speaker 1: these companies are and represent. Are they bigger than just

227
00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,600
Speaker 1: like you know, uh, a independent company. They've almost become

228
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,800
Speaker 1: little governments of their own yes, you know. Oh gosh,

229
00:14:21,000 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 1: ah man, damn it. We only do one strange news

230
00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,120
Speaker 1: segment a week. There's a bill in play right now

231
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,920
Speaker 1: to allow private corporations to create what are called innovation

232
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:35,120
Speaker 1: zones and to take over the functions of government that

233
00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,560
Speaker 1: would occur in those zones. Check it out now, use

234
00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,720
Speaker 1: Brave or your browser of choice and look at um.

235
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:45,640
Speaker 1: I believe it's Nevada Innovation Zones. You're right now. There

236
00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 1: is a troubling, uh troubling difference of opinion on the

237
00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:55,400
Speaker 1: role of the government or the private indic the private

238
00:14:55,560 --> 00:15:00,240
Speaker 1: entities that interact with people directly. Now, I do want

239
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,680
Speaker 1: to point out one thing that really made me appreciate

240
00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: your call, anonymous. We did not note in our previous

241
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 1: episode that parlor did have community guidelines. They did have

242
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040
Speaker 1: a mechanism for taking down posts, they were able to

243
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:22,320
Speaker 1: to ban people. So it wasn't it wasn't entirely anything goes.

244
00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,680
Speaker 1: I think every social media tycoon or would be tycoon

245
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,000
Speaker 1: is aware of the great, the great example of the

246
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,520
Speaker 1: problem with free speech running into a crowded movie theater

247
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 1: screaming fire and then just watching the chaos happen. Right,

248
00:15:39,160 --> 00:15:42,600
Speaker 1: That is that free speech is that a crime? This

249
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:48,400
Speaker 1: The problem is that free speech itself is not mutually exclusive,

250
00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:52,120
Speaker 1: like it's not. It can be free speech and still

251
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:56,760
Speaker 1: be uh something that is quite dangerous and meant to

252
00:15:56,880 --> 00:16:01,040
Speaker 1: be dangerous, you know what I mean? Completely. I want

253
00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: to I want to bring this back to our adventures

254
00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:06,640
Speaker 1: with Facebook, if that's okay, because we've we've had a

255
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,400
Speaker 1: long relationship this show has at least with Facebook, and

256
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,360
Speaker 1: I just want to let listeners in kind of behind

257
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:18,160
Speaker 1: the screen here, behind behind the camera. Um. So, originally,

258
00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:22,160
Speaker 1: when we started a Facebook page for stuff they don't

259
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,360
Speaker 1: want you to know it was, it functions very differently

260
00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,560
Speaker 1: because of the Facebook platform and how they handled like

261
00:16:27,720 --> 00:16:30,400
Speaker 1: group pages. And then I think it was like a

262
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,000
Speaker 1: fan page. I don't remember exactly what they called it,

263
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:38,160
Speaker 1: but generally we could go in and see every comment

264
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 1: that was coming in, We could personally respond to comments,

265
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,880
Speaker 1: we could we had access to that because there was

266
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,520
Speaker 1: such a small pool of people that were interested in

267
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,640
Speaker 1: our show when we first started that page. Then as

268
00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,480
Speaker 1: it began to grow, Ben and I remember this, Ben,

269
00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:57,080
Speaker 1: I remember we would struggle to keep up with some

270
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,680
Speaker 1: of the stuff that we were still able to do.

271
00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:01,120
Speaker 1: It and then and it got out of hand to

272
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:04,399
Speaker 1: where we had to pick and choose a moment to

273
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,240
Speaker 1: go in and kind of search through and decide what

274
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,320
Speaker 1: we could respond to, much like right now we do

275
00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,560
Speaker 1: with our listener mail segments. We have this large pool

276
00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,240
Speaker 1: and we dip in and we pull some things out. Um,

277
00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:20,760
Speaker 1: then if you scale that out even further to the

278
00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,040
Speaker 1: point where it got so big, we had to create

279
00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy, the Facebook group, which made

280
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:28,760
Speaker 1: it more more manageable, and then we had to get

281
00:17:28,840 --> 00:17:32,400
Speaker 1: mods for that because it got too big. And imagine

282
00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:35,119
Speaker 1: doing this and this kind of scale with billions of

283
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:40,440
Speaker 1: users and you know you're you're attempting you kind of

284
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:44,520
Speaker 1: have to assign humans at some point two police behaviors

285
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:48,160
Speaker 1: on social media because the only a human can make

286
00:17:48,240 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 1: those value judgments on these things. We talked about this

287
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:54,200
Speaker 1: a bit, but when it is just by the nature

288
00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:56,880
Speaker 1: of the scale, has it has to be done through

289
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 1: a program, through an algorithm releasing all the content, it

290
00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:07,440
Speaker 1: just becomes a completely impossible to Yeah, that's the thing.

291
00:18:07,960 --> 00:18:13,160
Speaker 1: So there's the human equation is quite a difficult one

292
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 1: to crack, which may be the most inhuman robotics stuff

293
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,639
Speaker 1: I've said in this episode, but the problem is this,

294
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,480
Speaker 1: you're you're right. Currently there is no way to watch

295
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 1: every falling sparrow of its wheat right on any platform.

296
00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 1: There's not there's not a real considered visibility human beings.

297
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: It is well proven human beings will not always outsmart algorithms,

298
00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,840
Speaker 1: well not always outsmart software, but human beings so far

299
00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,040
Speaker 1: will always out create it. They'll change the game, right

300
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:53,600
Speaker 1: like look at look at the amazing and brilliant evolution

301
00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:58,200
Speaker 1: of online descent under the reign of jimping in China.

302
00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: What we're seeing is people couldn't type out characters that

303
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:07,320
Speaker 1: said protest, so they went to the meme world, which

304
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,360
Speaker 1: is a very old, I would argue type of communication.

305
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,080
Speaker 1: And when certain memes were getting stopped, then they went

306
00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:17,240
Speaker 1: to other ways of communicating, a nod and a wink

307
00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:20,080
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, a signal to those who

308
00:19:20,119 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: were in the know. And then this language evolved from it.

309
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,400
Speaker 1: And the fascinating thing, by the way, Anonymous, you will

310
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,920
Speaker 1: be interested in this. China just banned the audio app

311
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:36,359
Speaker 1: Clubhouse because people were going on this ephemeral audio app

312
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: and they were speaking their minds in a way that

313
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:44,760
Speaker 1: I can only imagine the PRC found objection herble. Also,

314
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,480
Speaker 1: we're doing an episode of following going it's really weird.

315
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:53,200
Speaker 1: Ben Ben is fully down the rabbit hole there. But

316
00:19:53,280 --> 00:19:54,879
Speaker 1: it's good. It's such a good thing. You're gonna be

317
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 1: happy about it. It's gonna have a good result for

318
00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,400
Speaker 1: all of us. We might not be able to get

319
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 1: in after that one. I don't know, man, that that

320
00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 1: show comes around every once in a while. I've been

321
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 1: meaning to see it where we where I live in particular,

322
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 1: that show comes through every year. I mean there's memes

323
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:17,720
Speaker 1: of like shen Yan billboards on the moon. You know,

324
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:22,440
Speaker 1: it's like a running gag just everywhere every coffee shop,

325
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:25,680
Speaker 1: they've got armies of these, like street team people like

326
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:30,239
Speaker 1: putting up these signs. We should all go. Let's make

327
00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 1: it a thing. Let's heart. It's quite stunning. Yeah. I

328
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,639
Speaker 1: always wanted to go, but the tickets are pricey, and

329
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 1: then there's the question of what exactly your support of

330
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:43,480
Speaker 1: my funding? Yeah, but but with that being said, uh, Anonymous,

331
00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: we hope that we are. We hope that we are

332
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 1: giving UM a worthwhile perspective on on the issues here

333
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:56,000
Speaker 1: social media, freedom of speech, private versus public entities or

334
00:20:56,080 --> 00:21:00,240
Speaker 1: private versus state entities. And the answer right now, as

335
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,080
Speaker 1: far as we can tell, is that there is no

336
00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:08,240
Speaker 1: silver bullet. There is no solution to this dilemma. There's

337
00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,160
Speaker 1: nothing that solves the puzzle in a way that makes

338
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 1: everybody agree, you know what I mean, like like overreaching governments. Again,

339
00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: China is a great example overreaching governments. Their answer is

340
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: domestic stability above all. Therefore, we will shut down quick fast,

341
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,160
Speaker 1: in a hurry, and with great prejudice anything that could

342
00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,920
Speaker 1: be a threat to domestic stability, because we are doing

343
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,680
Speaker 1: this for the greater good right and we can get

344
00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:41,400
Speaker 1: into the difference between um civic and economic rights versus

345
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,680
Speaker 1: human rights, which is a huge deal internationally. And then

346
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 1: there's the other side, which is, you know, let's while

347
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,040
Speaker 1: out hashtag yolo, say whatever you want and and consequences

348
00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: be damned. And it appears that neither of those extremes

349
00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 1: are particularly beneficial to people at scale. To your point, Matt,

350
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,920
Speaker 1: over the long term, no one knows how to fix this.

351
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,280
Speaker 1: We built things that we don't understand, and that's the

352
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 1: root of the problem. Absolutely, you're correct, and that's a

353
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:15,360
Speaker 1: good place to end it. We should end it there.

354
00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,440
Speaker 1: I unfortunately have to leave you this just because I

355
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 1: I've got a place where you can go check out

356
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,240
Speaker 1: some things. Um, go head on over to the Harvard

357
00:22:22,280 --> 00:22:25,119
Speaker 1: Business Review. It's just called Harvard Business Review. You can

358
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 1: read some really interesting opinions about some of this stuff.

359
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: And there are a couple other places online that you'll

360
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,000
Speaker 1: be able to find if you just do some duck

361
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: duck going about UH scale and disinformation. And there's this

362
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:47,359
Speaker 1: Harvard Business Review article discusses the the ad revenue model

363
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:53,000
Speaker 1: with scale and what that means and how that can

364
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,960
Speaker 1: be abused by bad actors, and so it's what we've

365
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: talked about before a little bit. But you can really

366
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 1: get into the nitty gritty and a cup all these

367
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,560
Speaker 1: articles and we'd recommend that. Okay, thank you again for

368
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 1: calling it. We're gonna take a quick break and we'll

369
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 1: be right back, and we're back with more messages from you. Yes,

370
00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:18,480
Speaker 1: you the public? Are you or are you not? A

371
00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 1: member of the public. That's from a movie. I don't

372
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 1: remember which one, but I digress. We're talking about Mattress Firm.

373
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,760
Speaker 1: It's a follow up from a previous UH Strange News

374
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 1: Our Listener Mail episode. I forget, but this one is

375
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:36,360
Speaker 1: a you feel recall just a qu quick summary, lots

376
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 1: of mattress firms, weirdly so ones across the street from

377
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: one another, doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We

378
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: went through, talked about the business model, talked about how, uh,

379
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,840
Speaker 1: there was some weird, kind of sketchy stuff in the

380
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: past of the parent company of mattress firm, Steinhoff International.

381
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,679
Speaker 1: We're gonna get into that in a second. But um,

382
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: you know, the whole conspiracy, the angle of mattress firm,

383
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 1: it's all over the internet. Is Is it some sort

384
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: of elaborate international money laundering situation? Are all these mattresses

385
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:12,720
Speaker 1: full of drugs and or cash? That's my editorializing, but

386
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 1: it's a it's a reasonable question, especially given the you know,

387
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 1: largely moving away from showroom models, with all the Caspers

388
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,119
Speaker 1: and the you know, Brenda's not Brenda Lisa's, and the

389
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: purple mattresses of the world. It's a little odd that

390
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 1: there's still so many mattress firms. And we've got the

391
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:35,000
Speaker 1: inside scoop from the real estates perspective, from one of

392
00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 1: the landlords of one of these rental locations of a

393
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,440
Speaker 1: Mattress Firm. Um. And this comes from Andrew who wrote

394
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,480
Speaker 1: in via email. Andrew says, Hi, guys, just listen to

395
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,320
Speaker 1: your recent episode talking about the Mattress store conspiracy. I'm

396
00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: here to share a personal experience my mom encountered with

397
00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: none other than Mattress Firm. My mom owns various commercial

398
00:24:56,920 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: real estate around northeastern Ohio. Years ago, a tenant vacated

399
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:03,920
Speaker 1: one of her properties that was on the corner of

400
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: an exit ramp of a highway in a high traffic area.

401
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: She decided to give the place a facelift and put

402
00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: it back on the market for lease. Mattress Firm approached

403
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,600
Speaker 1: her with something like a six year lease, paying above

404
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: fair market value. She declined because she didn't want to

405
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 1: deal with a big corporation. Shortly after, someone higher up

406
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,520
Speaker 1: at a corporate might have been the CEO at the time,

407
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: personally called her to asking her to reconsider offering her

408
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: twice their market value was for that location. She finally agreed.

409
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: After all this persistence and all that money and all

410
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: that money, I mean that is literally an offer that

411
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: would be very, very difficult to refuse. Mattress Firm moved in,

412
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: and I mean to tell you we never once saw

413
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: a customer come into the store, as we would frequently

414
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: pass that intersection, much like our two Mattress firm locations

415
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: across from each other on Moreland Avenue, a big main

416
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 1: drag here in Atlanta. Within a year or so of

417
00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: being there, they abruptly called saying they needed out of

418
00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: their six plus year lease. Apparently, behind the scenes, Mattress

419
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,200
Speaker 1: Firm had been opening an insane amount of storefronts. It

420
00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 1: was alled that the CEO was cooking the books to

421
00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 1: appear that they were much more successful than they actually were.

422
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:18,720
Speaker 1: As a result, they were forced into bankruptcy and had

423
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: to cut hundreds of retail leases. Below is a link

424
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 1: to an article that talks about this very situation. Anyway,

425
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 1: I thought you'd be interested, you thought right, Um, and

426
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: take care, Andrew, Andrew, Andrew, thank you so much. This

427
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: is this Mattress for thing. For the background, It's something

428
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,440
Speaker 1: that Noel and Matt and I have talked about at

429
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 1: length for for a number of years. Because you know

430
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,280
Speaker 1: how it is when you when you have friends that

431
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: you've known for a while, some conversations are just conversations

432
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:57,280
Speaker 1: that kind of continue forever, you know, and you touch

433
00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: based on this every so often. UM, we did a

434
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: pretty good job I think of walking through the possibilities here.

435
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 1: But this is I don't know about you guys. This

436
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,560
Speaker 1: was this letter from Andrew was the first I heard

437
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: about this. Uh, the CEOs shenanigans, and I believe the

438
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:20,679
Speaker 1: link you sent us is just about a little less

439
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: than a year old talking about how in February, Uh,

440
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 1: there was at least a partial make good on the

441
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 1: fraud lawsuit? Is that correct? But not Yeah, that's correct.

442
00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:38,680
Speaker 1: Freshly removed from bankruptcy, Mattress firm partially settles fraud lawsuit.

443
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: Wait a minute, what fraud lawsuit? We didn't really talk

444
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 1: about that last time. That's because we kind of cliff

445
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: hung it. If you'll recall with UM, I believe Matt

446
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 1: you very slightly dropped the name of Marcus Justa who

447
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 1: on December five of two thousand and seventeen resigned UM

448
00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:02,919
Speaker 1: siting after there were allegations of accounting irregularities. The stock

449
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:08,240
Speaker 1: price plummeted sixty six percent and ultimately would go to

450
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: fall by UM. And Yeah, apparently they had done exactly

451
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,239
Speaker 1: what is being described here, overstating profits and assets by

452
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: nearly twelve billion dollars. It's a lot of mattresses. So,

453
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:28,520
Speaker 1: I mean, is this just crooked bookkeeping? Like it seems

454
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: like an unsustainable model. But to me this starts to

455
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,520
Speaker 1: have the like ring of something like the Magical Corporation

456
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 1: in Breaking Bad, where I'm not picturing you know, other

457
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,840
Speaker 1: stuff going on behind the scenes, you know, much more nefarious.

458
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: But that's just where my mind goes. And if that

459
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: is the case, it certainly doesn't like they're doing a

460
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:49,520
Speaker 1: very good job of hiding it, because I mean, this

461
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: is like everyone and their mom questions why there's so

462
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: many freaking mattress firms everywhere? But this company owns lots

463
00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: of other you know, it's a holding company. This uh,

464
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 1: this Steinhoff in a national They own other you know,

465
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:07,720
Speaker 1: manufacturing facilities, they own other big box type retailer spaces,

466
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:13,680
Speaker 1: mainly in Europe. Yeah, yeah, it's how how big does

467
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 1: this go? You know what I mean? This It's it's

468
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: interesting too because we can use the parlor example from

469
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 1: earlier here. For a holding company of that size, it's

470
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 1: fair to ask how closely they keep an eye on

471
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:34,960
Speaker 1: various subsidiaries or enterprises, you know, much less individuals Mattress

472
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 1: firm itself filed lawsuits against former employees, accusing them of

473
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 1: conspiring to make the company expand faster and further than

474
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 1: it should. Uh. But I'm well, did you see what

475
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,480
Speaker 1: it what they were doing? Did we do I'm sorry,

476
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,200
Speaker 1: I may maybe I missed it. I was kind of

477
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: reading a bit here as we were discussing guys. But

478
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: did we talk about what their plan was, like what

479
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,160
Speaker 1: those two guys were doing, Bruce Levy and Ryan Vincent,

480
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: these were two real estate executives there. I can't remember

481
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 1: if we talked about this in the last time, but

482
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: if we did it, it doesn't querying about um tell

483
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:12,760
Speaker 1: us a little bit more about who these people were

484
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:15,800
Speaker 1: and how they connected up with Marcus Gusta and the whole,

485
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, the whole collapse. Well in this guy, Alexander

486
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: dtich Chitch. I think that's the one that I mentioned,

487
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 1: Alexander that that brings a bell for me. That so,

488
00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 1: what these guys were doing, they were doing very similar

489
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: things to what in our message from Andrew said. They

490
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 1: were paying way above regular value for leases in places

491
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: across the country, and they were doing it purposefully because

492
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,480
Speaker 1: many times those the land that was the land that

493
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 1: they were leasing was owned by a group that one

494
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: or more of these individuals actually had a like a

495
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: controlling share over, or we're a part of, or were

496
00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: invested in in some way, so that they were just

497
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: cycling that money through essentially through the lease money was

498
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 1: actually getting back to the individuals rather than benefiting Mattress

499
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 1: Firm in any way. M M. I mean it's it's weird,

500
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,600
Speaker 1: isn't it, Because when you it's like the example have

501
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:16,800
Speaker 1: always used of targets income Stream being at least partially

502
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: selling security systems to other businesses McDonald's. You can make

503
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 1: the argument is a real estate company that happens to

504
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: give you fries if you give them a couple of bucks.

505
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: The stores that we see in the companies that we

506
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: see on the street level from the consumer side, we're

507
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: seeing a very very small part of a very very

508
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 1: large iceberg. Right. And and the thing with Mattress Firm

509
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 1: is that, like some feathered down Icarus, they flew too

510
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,680
Speaker 1: close to the real the crooked real estate son. I'm

511
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: just freestyling here, guys. Somebody is somebody saw me if

512
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: I go too much farther off the rails. Um, what

513
00:31:56,880 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: we know is that despite all these massive closures that occurred,

514
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: uh and the resignations that ensued, Mattress firm is still around.

515
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:11,040
Speaker 1: So whatever they clearly it's around and around and around, right,

516
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:16,840
Speaker 1: So they definitely uh did not render themselves extinct, which

517
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 1: to my mind means on some level, whatever crime was occurring,

518
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: worked should have done a follow up. I'm assuming this

519
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: this listener, Uh, this deal they're talking about with the

520
00:32:27,680 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: with the rental was back in and the article came

521
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 1: out in twenty nineteen, but it's referencing this period since

522
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 1: late the litigation. But I'm saying it sounds like this

523
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: was a practice and I'm sorry, I want to ask

524
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: you guys real quick. Is this like a desperate move

525
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:50,960
Speaker 1: to like bail yourself out and not like you know,

526
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: go under, or is there something more? Is this like

527
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:57,400
Speaker 1: literally like a scam, Like is this sort of cooking

528
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 1: the books to like bide yourself some time and the

529
00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: hopes that you're profits will go up and you can

530
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:06,719
Speaker 1: save the company, or is this is this something like weirder? Well, well,

531
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:09,160
Speaker 1: it's it's a bit weird so deep. I'm not going

532
00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 1: to say his name correctly once Dtich DP Deetch, the

533
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:20,040
Speaker 1: Alexander guy. He he made counterclaims against Mattress Firm while

534
00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff was going down, and he

535
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: was saying that Mattress Firm itself, like the top executives there,

536
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,680
Speaker 1: were pressuring him into bulking up its real estate. So

537
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 1: they were they were pressing him to do the stuff

538
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 1: that he was doing. Um. And the whole point, at

539
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: least according to him in his countersuit, is the is

540
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:42,600
Speaker 1: that Mattress Firm wanted to derail competition. We talked about

541
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,120
Speaker 1: that in the last time we discussed this, that the

542
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: strategy there was to push out any other small mattress companies.

543
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 1: They were trying to get in on Mattress Firm's territory. Um.

544
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 1: I mean, it's just it's interesting to know that it's

545
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: just kind of become a big shouting match at each other.

546
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: Well you told me to do this, Well, yeah, but

547
00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,640
Speaker 1: you told me to do that, and yeah, and there

548
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 1: does the money go in the mattress man. Dude. It

549
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: really puts a new fresh spin on the famous Godfather

550
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:16,439
Speaker 1: line taking it to the mattresses, which means going to war.

551
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,160
Speaker 1: Mattresses were fun. Fact, mattresses were the weapon of choice

552
00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: in the mafia's yesteryear. They were very dangerous weapon. It's

553
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 1: basically like a oversized pillow fight. And I mean those

554
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 1: wire you know, springs inside pack a rill. Well, you

555
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: get the momentum you start swinging, it's pandemonium, you know. Uh,

556
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: this this is uh, this is still kind of an

557
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: ongoing case. You know, it's something we've said before. Uh.

558
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: Just because the news is not covering a story past

559
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,200
Speaker 1: the five minutes you hear on the evening program, uh,

560
00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: doesn't mean the story ended. As a matter of fact,

561
00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 1: Steinhof International is currently negotiation to try to settle another

562
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:07,920
Speaker 1: financial scandal. Uh that it was just announced. Um another

563
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:12,879
Speaker 1: subsidiary there is called PEP Core Holdings just just got

564
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 1: one step closer in the UK court, just settling a

565
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 1: multi billion rand lawsuit. RAN's being recurat to South Africa.

566
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: And before we wrap this one up, I have to

567
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: name some of the South African retail brands that Steinhoff

568
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: owns because some of these uh names are just adorable

569
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 1: and there's you know, there's always little differences. Another that

570
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: I love with branding and other countries. So my personal

571
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: favorite is incredible Connection. We've got penny pinchers which I'm

572
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,680
Speaker 1: assuming is like a dollar Tree type situation. Something just

573
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: called Pep. I don't know what that is. Uh Russell's

574
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: Shoe City, another favorite of mine, Techie Town two ks,

575
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:58,800
Speaker 1: uh Timber City, and unitrans nice. Yeah, that's awesome. Well, guys,

576
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 1: I I I am sleepy. Is it okay? If we've

577
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: taken that break, we'll be back. The FBI's texted us okay,

578
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:17,400
Speaker 1: and we have returned. This next tale comes to us

579
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 1: in response to our earlier episode on the Latitude Society,

580
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:26,560
Speaker 1: which was a a surprising rob I think for for

581
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:30,279
Speaker 1: many of us. Right, Lucas l writes to us to say,

582
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: you asked in your latest podcast to let you know

583
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 1: about other experiences that are like the Latitude Society. Well,

584
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 1: they are more common than one may think. Alternate reality games,

585
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:43,120
Speaker 1: or a r G we can call it, have been

586
00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: around for quite a while, and they are becoming more

587
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 1: and more advanced. I've been part of a few, and

588
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,360
Speaker 1: they go way beyond cryptic web boards or a random

589
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,320
Speaker 1: player getting a phone call. Here are two of the

590
00:36:54,360 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: bigger and more intricate a r G games, immersive theater

591
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 1: events I've been involved in. And you write this fantastic letter, Lucas,

592
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,360
Speaker 1: We're not gonna. I think Matt No would killed me

593
00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 1: if I read it in full. Uh it's length, but

594
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: it's it's it's very good stock full of information. Yes,

595
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: so I'm pulling out some choice excerpts here just to

596
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: give the rest of our fellow listens the lay of

597
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:24,880
Speaker 1: the augmented reality lands. Here, Lucas mentions the Neantic Project,

598
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: which was put on by Neantic Labs when they were

599
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,520
Speaker 1: owned by Google, and it started as a cryptic website.

600
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: The backstory is really cool, very sci fi. Cern is

601
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: working on exotic matter, and then it turns into like

602
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 1: a series of dead drops. The mobile game becomes in

603
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 1: twine like a mobile app, becomes entwined with the the

604
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: overall experience, and people ran wild with it. Again, I

605
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: can't think of a better comparison than the COO's Pendulum, which, please,

606
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: if you've read the book, nerd out with me about it.

607
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: Uh BO were actually hiring chartering planes to go to

608
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,000
Speaker 1: unreachable areas of the world to score points for their

609
00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: faction in this game. The game was, in many ways,

610
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: Lucas points out, a predecessor to Pokemon Go. The next

611
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,719
Speaker 1: the next organization Lucas mentions, here is the experiences. This

612
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:27,960
Speaker 1: is more horror to the nentic projects sci fi. Lucas

613
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,600
Speaker 1: says he mainly focuses on the Tension experience because that

614
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 1: was the one I was most involved with. Uh that

615
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,759
Speaker 1: it was created by the director of several films and

616
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: the Saw franchise, and Lucas says, once again, it's hard

617
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: to really describe this and not be writing for hours.

618
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,719
Speaker 1: This a RG was about a cult that was kidnapping

619
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,359
Speaker 1: and brainwashing people in the l A area. It would

620
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,719
Speaker 1: get funds by bringing in the elderly, having them sign

621
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: over all their possessions. They would also lure in and

622
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 1: brainwash young girls they believed in a god called a knock.

623
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: This started with a website. People would get calls from

624
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: the cast you know, we see again this mission bleed

625
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: from online to I R L in real life. UH,

626
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: and then you get you get literally kidnapped, tossed in

627
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,640
Speaker 1: a van. Lucas, you have sent us a couple of

628
00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 1: pictures relating to this, and we we hope everybody reads these.

629
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 1: I'd love to talk with you guys about these at

630
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 1: length in the future. One thing Lucas hipped us to

631
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: is that nonchalance right? The folks who were involved with

632
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: this nonchalance is starting another a r G. You can

633
00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:42,800
Speaker 1: you can go right now, folks to signal s y

634
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: G in y L dot com. They have Facebook, Twitter, Instagram,

635
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: all the hits. Uh. Lucas also found a TikTok, but

636
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: says it's currently empty at the time. Who was writing this? Uh?

637
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,439
Speaker 1: And then Lucas, you going to tell us about your

638
00:39:59,640 --> 00:40:03,560
Speaker 1: a RG idea? And I'm gonna be honest, I think

639
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:06,960
Speaker 1: it's so good that I made the decision not to

640
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,400
Speaker 1: talk about it on air because I don't really I

641
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:11,839
Speaker 1: don't want people taking his idea. Man, he worked hard

642
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: on it's smart, it's good. We can maybe describe it

643
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,439
Speaker 1: in like vague terms. Would that work? I think, yeah,

644
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 1: maybe you're right. I just really liked it, so I

645
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:29,879
Speaker 1: want to talk about it. But smarter, yeah, smarter move

646
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,120
Speaker 1: is to to leave it alone. And we just have

647
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:36,400
Speaker 1: to say, please, please, please do something with it because

648
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: it's super cool. It is so great. It's killing us

649
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: not to talk about it. But we would not be

650
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: able to well, I don't sleep, but we would not

651
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 1: be able to be uh, to have a sense of

652
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,120
Speaker 1: inner peace if we told everybody how great we think

653
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: your idea is, and then someone took it from you.

654
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:56,280
Speaker 1: We don't want to be a party to that. Credit

655
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,880
Speaker 1: is important and it's your idea anyway. Lucas goes on

656
00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: to say, you know, I'm not a wealthy guy like

657
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:06,800
Speaker 1: Jeff Hull, which is why I would have some problems

658
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:11,560
Speaker 1: doing this amazing idea, shouts out in immersive theater Alice

659
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: Wonderland style out in New York City called then She

660
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,520
Speaker 1: Fell uh, and then also mentions when he heard of

661
00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: called the Illuminati Ball, which sounds super up our alley uh,

662
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: and then says, hope, I helped you out a bit

663
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: with what you're looking for listening for a few years. Now,

664
00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:31,480
Speaker 1: keep up the great work. Poppy Caps is the name,

665
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 1: the name you want to go by. That's awesome, dude.

666
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 1: When we meet in real life, whether it's on a tour,

667
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 1: post pandemic, whatever, I'm gonna call you Poppy Caps. I'm

668
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 1: just gonna keep with it. I love it, Poppy Caps. Sorry. Oh,

669
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,840
Speaker 1: you guys might remember a couple episodes. I can't remember

670
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:57,080
Speaker 1: all Bush together, but I was really desperately trying to

671
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 1: make a connection. Uh. The show you Topia came up.

672
00:42:01,320 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: I believe you were both fans and I haven't seen

673
00:42:03,360 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 1: it yet, and is created by a guy named Dennis Kelly,

674
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:07,799
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh my god, the name rings

675
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: a bell. What else did he do? I'll tell you

676
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,960
Speaker 1: what else he did. He did this show on HBO

677
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:17,000
Speaker 1: called The Third Day UM with Jude Law. Uh. That

678
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,800
Speaker 1: is in and of itself a and it was meant

679
00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:26,040
Speaker 1: to be an interactive, communal kind of theater thing. Uh.

680
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:29,239
Speaker 1: It all takes place on this creepy island off of

681
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: the coast of England, several hours from London, has this

682
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: like land bridge where the water or the tide rises

683
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:37,480
Speaker 1: and lowers and that's the only way you can drive across,

684
00:42:37,520 --> 00:42:39,399
Speaker 1: and once the tide comes in, you can't get off

685
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 1: the island. But they were going to it's it's divided

686
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: into like these segments. Um, there's summer, autumn, and winter.

687
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: And autumn was initially going to be like a ticketed

688
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: event where you could go wander around the island. All

689
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 1: the actors would be they're doing stuff, um, and you'd

690
00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:59,959
Speaker 1: kind of just watch and like you know, intermingle and whatever.

691
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 1: Her And it's done in partnership with this company called

692
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,359
Speaker 1: Punch Drunk that did this thing called Sleep No More

693
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,120
Speaker 1: that I saw in New York and it's been running

694
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: for ages. But it's literally like you wear these masks

695
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 1: and your your unleashed into this multi level kind of

696
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: space and it's like Macbeth but but it's not. And

697
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: it's like there's satanic e type stuff and crazy music

698
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: and sound design and like it's like literally like living

699
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 1: in a video game. It's one of the coolest experiences

700
00:43:24,719 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 1: of my life. Um, and that's where that connection was.

701
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: So this all reminded me of Sleep No More and

702
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,680
Speaker 1: the kinds of interactive theater Punch Drunk's been doing forever,

703
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 1: and that was the connection. I think we're gonna see

704
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: much more augmented reality in in the near future. I Mean,

705
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:48,120
Speaker 1: the coolest part I think is gaming, but that is

706
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 1: sort of that is making the trend that is coming,

707
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 1: that is inevitable by the way that is making that trend.

708
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 1: Uh seemed innocuous and fun because these games are both

709
00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: innocuous and fun in general. But what happens? What what

710
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:09,759
Speaker 1: happens when a r becomes so accepted as technology that

711
00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: walking around without glasses allowing you to interact in an

712
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 1: a R way uh is the same thing as being blind.

713
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: Just like children born today eighteen years from now not

714
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,719
Speaker 1: knowing how to code. It's going to be kind of

715
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: like not being literate, you know what I mean. There's

716
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: there is a huge wave, a watership moment of technology

717
00:44:31,040 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: coming here speaking of kids and yet but oh yeah, okay, alright, buddy,

718
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: this is nope, We're I'm going mute for a moment. Boys,

719
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 1: how do we back Auntie data? So imagine imagine a

720
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: world where you are the person who forgets their contacts

721
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,919
Speaker 1: or their uh a r spectacles at home, and you're

722
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: the only person who doesn't have it. You're going to

723
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:08,200
Speaker 1: see the rest of the world appearing to behave very strangely.

724
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: I also want to point out not to be too

725
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:13,759
Speaker 1: like cynical or gloom and doom. You know how these

726
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 1: classes are gonna work, right, you know, these contacts are

727
00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 1: gonna work. They're going to be free with ads. Yeah,

728
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,680
Speaker 1: I think like, you know, we talk about black Mirror

729
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: a ton on this show because it's it does such

730
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: a good job of like kind of creating a plausible,

731
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: not too distant future reality that you know, with the

732
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: healthy amount of satire. But I always think of that episode.

733
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: I can't remember the number, but it's the one about

734
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,359
Speaker 1: the merits thirty million merits or whatever, where in order

735
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: to skip an ad you have to pay money, and

736
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: that's in like your life is literally just like serving

737
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,240
Speaker 1: you ads like on screens, and it's it's like locked.

738
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 1: When you close your eyes, it beeps at you and

739
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,439
Speaker 1: makes this like frequency that forces you to open your eyes. Um, yeah,

740
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,239
Speaker 1: I'm with you, dude. I think it's I think it's

741
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:04,719
Speaker 1: on the way. Years ago, I did, uh, I did

742
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 1: an experiment that didn't work out, Matt and Old can

743
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: assure you all. I do many experiments, and many of

744
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: them do not work out with their end results. But that's,

745
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 1: you know, that's experimentation. Here's what I tried to do.

746
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 1: I tried to count the number of ads I saw

747
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: in a given day, defining a day as in the

748
00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:26,279
Speaker 1: moment I wake up, to the moment um I guess,

749
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 1: to midnight or whatever. And from that span of time,

750
00:46:30,840 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: I quickly realized there was no way to count. There

751
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,720
Speaker 1: was no way to count all of the ads unless

752
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: I wasn't working, I wasn't focused on anything else, and

753
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:47,240
Speaker 1: I was hyper aware. And what's happening, and that's nothing.

754
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 1: Soon you will not be able to count ads at all.

755
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:53,399
Speaker 1: It will simply be a brought to you by It'll

756
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,439
Speaker 1: be like you know it'll be. It'll be life brought

757
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: to you by insert here. I have to disagree with you, Ben.

758
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be gamified. And I think

759
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: you will know exactly how many ads you watched, and

760
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,839
Speaker 1: how many like the duration, how many you completed, how

761
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:13,440
Speaker 1: many you gave full attention to. You're gonna get grades

762
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:18,280
Speaker 1: and scales, and you will get a crypto like portion

763
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: of a cryptocurrency based on the ads that you completed

764
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 1: or you know, portions of it, and then you'll be

765
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: able to use that cryptocurrency for everything, anything and everything. Counterpoint,

766
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 1: advertisers will pay more for hidden ads than that don't

767
00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:39,960
Speaker 1: count and don't appear to be like like you could

768
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: get some like achievement secret AADs like you can unlock

769
00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 1: a certain special ad that gives you a full crypto

770
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:49,880
Speaker 1: coal And what about this? What about this? Think about this?

771
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: What if? What if you are given the opportunity to

772
00:47:55,480 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: go to an organization, go to a person, maybe a friend,

773
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,400
Speaker 1: maybe a loved wind, maybe your spouse, and then to

774
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: them recommend a thing. You what if you're paid directly

775
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,640
Speaker 1: to be that word of mouth person, to be that

776
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 1: person who is hanging out across the street from the local, right,

777
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: and like there's a little there's a little like halo

778
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:17,800
Speaker 1: like you see in a side mission and RPG hanging

779
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: over this person. And you walk over to this person,

780
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 1: your h u D says, you know, talk to them

781
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: about how great the wings are at the local and

782
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 1: walk up to them and you're like, hey, you know, uh,

783
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 1: my name's Jerome, and I gotta tell you if you

784
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: like wings as you go to the local, and then

785
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:35,800
Speaker 1: you're done. You don't have to say anything else. You

786
00:48:35,960 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 1: just say that to a stranger. You keep walking, you

787
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:40,680
Speaker 1: get your crypto bits or your ben bucks or whatever,

788
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,920
Speaker 1: and then the world continues. It's Mary Dance to Hell

789
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:49,759
Speaker 1: like and then they come in your earpiece and they say,

790
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 1: mentioned the local on air during your podcast and make

791
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:55,720
Speaker 1: sure all listeners are aware of their sun dried tomato

792
00:48:55,800 --> 00:49:00,800
Speaker 1: smoked wings. It's it's not about the money, you guys.

793
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:05,239
Speaker 1: It's about sending a message and getting It's about the

794
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,879
Speaker 1: fragment of a crypto currency we got along the way.

795
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,200
Speaker 1: And then also secret ads. Um. I I just recently

796
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: took the not the toe dip into crypto and I

797
00:49:16,640 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 1: bought a handful of coins uh through a friend with

798
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,520
Speaker 1: a friend's recommendation, UM, using this site called next. So

799
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,360
Speaker 1: it's like a crypto bank. And it has these like

800
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:28,360
Speaker 1: verification like I'm not a bot, things where you have

801
00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,120
Speaker 1: to pull this like puzzle piece on a slider into

802
00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 1: where the cutout of the puzzle piece goes. But the

803
00:49:34,960 --> 00:49:39,520
Speaker 1: whole thing itself is an AD. But it's also like

804
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:48,680
Speaker 1: a capture, but it's an AD. It's beauty integration. We

805
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:53,319
Speaker 1: have become ads. That's that's what's going to happen everybody listening. Uh.

806
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,160
Speaker 1: This is dystopian and maybe we're being a bit extreme, um,

807
00:49:58,880 --> 00:50:02,040
Speaker 1: but I think we are. I think we're still firmly

808
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 1: within the realm of plausibility here, not just possibility. Uh

809
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:08,600
Speaker 1: with this. The thing about the A R Games is

810
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 1: that they're so cool, they're so neat. It's so surprising

811
00:50:12,560 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 1: that there are not more, which means, to my mind,

812
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: there are many more on the way or in development.

813
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:22,080
Speaker 1: The big question is where does it go? How far

814
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:24,680
Speaker 1: does it go? You know what I mean, I'll tell

815
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: you how far We're gonna take a quick break from

816
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 1: our ad services to hear a quick word from our host,

817
00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:34,880
Speaker 1: and but what we'll be right back to the ad stream.

818
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 1: That's what it's going to be, right right, right right

819
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: exactly because everybody wants the ad because they want the

820
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 1: bitcoin or whatever. Crypto bits I like because it sounds

821
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: like a snack. C yeah, crypto bits. Uh. So this

822
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,520
Speaker 1: is our show. Thank you so much everyone for tuning in.

823
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 1: Thank you Andrew, Thank you Papa Caps, Thank you Anonymous.

824
00:50:58,160 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: Uh what a ride fellas. Uh, folks. We hope that

825
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: you enjoyed this. We hope to hear from you soon.

826
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 1: If you want to take a page out of your

827
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:10,760
Speaker 1: fellow listeners book, you can contact us any number of ways.

828
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook and Twitter at conspiracy

829
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: Stuff on Instagram. We are a Conspiracy Stuff show. Hey,

830
00:51:17,680 --> 00:51:21,040
Speaker 1: why not head on over to Apple podcast wherever you

831
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 1: listen to the show and just pop a review in there.

832
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: We don't mind. We would love it if it's positive,

833
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,680
Speaker 1: if you like what you're hearing, otherwise you know, maybe

834
00:51:29,760 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: don't No, I'm just kidding you be honest, it's totally

835
00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:36,759
Speaker 1: we want to hear what you think and it does

836
00:51:36,840 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: help the show. We don't have a Patreon, we don't

837
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:41,239
Speaker 1: have a way to really you know, give back in

838
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: any way. But this is something you could do if

839
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: you felt like it should. The spirit so move you

840
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:49,880
Speaker 1: if you're not, if you're not on board with social

841
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:53,360
Speaker 1: media after all the creepy, increasingly true stuff we just

842
00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:55,480
Speaker 1: told you, we'd only get it. We have a phone

843
00:51:55,560 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: number you can call. It's one eight three three st

844
00:51:58,200 --> 00:52:00,680
Speaker 1: d w y t K. You have three minutes. They

845
00:52:00,760 --> 00:52:03,920
Speaker 1: belong to you. Uh, the time is your own. Use

846
00:52:03,960 --> 00:52:06,279
Speaker 1: it wisely. Let us know if it's okay to use

847
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 1: your name and voice on the air as we As

848
00:52:10,200 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 1: we've said in the past that three minutes can make

849
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,840
Speaker 1: you feel like you're really put on the spot, so

850
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,120
Speaker 1: it's kind of helpful if you have time, just do

851
00:52:17,280 --> 00:52:19,160
Speaker 1: a do a couple of bullet points. That's why I

852
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,280
Speaker 1: want to tell the guys here's my amazing pun related

853
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: to conspiracies or whatever, and then just go nuts with it.

854
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:27,960
Speaker 1: We can't wait to hear from you. If you hate phones,

855
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:32,000
Speaker 1: totally get it. There is another way to contact us

856
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:37,360
Speaker 1: always well, always so far, always astric so far. That

857
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 1: is our good old fashioned email address where we all

858
00:52:40,040 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 1: conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff they Don't want

859
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:03,880
Speaker 1: you to Know is a production of I heart Radio.

860
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,760
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart radio, visit the iHeart

861
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 1: radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

862
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:10,280
Speaker 1: favorite shows.