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Speaker 1: Welcome to Hot to Money. I'm Joel, and today we're

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Speaker 1: talking financial freedom on less than forty thousand with Hopeware.

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Speaker 1: All right, do you want to live joyfully and abundantly

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Speaker 1: on a shoestring budget? Is it even possible? Or is

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Speaker 1: that something from a buy on era with headlines shouting

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Speaker 1: that million dollars isn't what it used to be and

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Speaker 1: folks making three hundred thousand dollars living paycheck to paycheck

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Speaker 1: as they exist far above their means. Achieving financial independence

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Speaker 1: on a forty thousand dollars salary kind of sounds like

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Speaker 1: a pipe dream, right, But my guest today is proof

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Speaker 1: that it's possible, and that you can have a good

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Speaker 1: time along the way too. You don't have to like

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Speaker 1: have no fun. So Hopeware runs the site in the

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Speaker 1: YouTube channel under the median along with her husband Larry.

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Speaker 1: They seek to instruct and inspire others to spend less,

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Speaker 1: to save more, and to live joyfully on a mid

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Speaker 1: five figure income. So, Hope, I am so excited to

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Speaker 1: have you on the show today. Thank you for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for asking me to join you. I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: be here.

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Speaker 1: Okay, first question, and I'm especially curious to hear your

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Speaker 1: answer to this, because we Matt and I like to

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Speaker 1: drink craft beer, nice craft beer. On occasion, you and

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Speaker 1: I emailed and you had just gone to New Glaris Brewing.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely splurg's on some delicious beers there. But also, when

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Speaker 1: you're trying to pinch pennies on a small salary, what

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Speaker 1: is your craft beer equivalent? What's your splurge?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I will say that our splurge was that

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Speaker 2: five day vacation to New Glaris, Wisconsin. We took all

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Speaker 2: four of our kids their families with us, and we

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Speaker 2: had a blast. And I think the thing is, we

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Speaker 2: figured out about three years ago we wanted to prioritize

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Speaker 2: that my favorite word in the whole wide world, prioritized.

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Speaker 2: We wanted to prioritize that. So we figured out, how

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Speaker 2: much money do we need to set aside every single month?

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Speaker 2: You know, what's the goal? What is the budget? And

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Speaker 2: we set that a long time ago, and we joyfully

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Speaker 2: spent every single penny of it.

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Speaker 1: I love that you said prioritized and then joyfully spent,

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Speaker 1: because I think those two things go hand in hand.

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Speaker 1: Why is prioritized your favorite word in.

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Speaker 2: The world, Because that is the main thing that people

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Speaker 2: need to understand. People put frugality in this box that

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Speaker 2: says frugal is equal to deprivation. Those two words are

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Speaker 2: not synonymous.

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Speaker 1: For us.

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Speaker 2: Frugality is about really figuring out how to spend your

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Speaker 2: dollars on the things that matter most. So you're going

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Speaker 2: to spend a little less on things that aren't as

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Speaker 2: important to you, so that when you have the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to take a glorious five or six day vacation with

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Speaker 2: your family to Wisconsin, you have figured out ahead of

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Speaker 2: time you're going to do it. You've prioritized that, and

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Speaker 2: you're able to do it knowing the money is there

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Speaker 2: and you've planned for it and you're going to do it.

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Speaker 1: Is that a mindset shift or an action shift? Right? So,

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Speaker 1: because you're right, I think a lot of people there's

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Speaker 1: this mental hang up. They hear the word frugality, they

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Speaker 1: shut down. You're trying to ruin my life. You're trying

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Speaker 1: to prevent me from doing the things that I enjoy

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Speaker 1: that I want. So why have those why have those

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Speaker 1: words become synonymous? And what does it take to kind

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Speaker 1: of unlink that?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think people people give up hope. So this

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Speaker 2: is The one thing that we have discovered in all

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Speaker 2: the years of running under the Median is that people

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Speaker 2: feel stuck, genuinely stuck. They have convinced themselves this is

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Speaker 2: the way my life is. It doesn't matter what I do,

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Speaker 2: nothing's going to change. So you have to realize that

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Speaker 2: the change starts with you. And here's the number one thing.

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Speaker 2: It starts with people figuring out where their money's going

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Speaker 2: in the first place. The number one mistake we see

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Speaker 2: people make is that they estimate, well, how much you

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Speaker 2: spend it on groceries, Well, I think I'm spending five

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Speaker 2: hundred dollars month, but if they track it in reality,

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Speaker 2: they're spending six fifty in a heartbeat, if not more

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Speaker 2: than that.

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Speaker 1: They're the studies about how much people spend on subscriptions

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Speaker 1: versus how much they think they spend on subscriptions, and

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Speaker 1: people are wildly inaccurate in their estimations.

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Speaker 2: You know, I just read a study. And that's one

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Speaker 2: of the things that we do is we read all

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Speaker 2: the time about saving money because it's like our passion

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Speaker 2: to figure this thing out. And there was just recently

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Speaker 2: a study done that said like forty percent of Americans

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Speaker 2: can't list all of their monthly subscriptions. They don't know

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Speaker 2: what they're even paying for.

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Speaker 1: I believe it. I believe it. Okay, I want to

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Speaker 1: go back in your story just a little bit, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll kind of come back around to this. But

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight, take me back in time when you

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Speaker 1: and Larry got married, and I even dug in a

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Speaker 1: little bit about your kind of like dating and getting

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Speaker 1: to know each other story, which is fascinating if other

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Speaker 1: people want to go down that rabbit hole, it's an

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Speaker 1: interesting one. But things weren't looking great financially when you

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Speaker 1: two tied the knot what was going on financially for

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Speaker 1: you guys at that time.

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Speaker 2: So we get married and we we have had zero

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Speaker 2: conversations about money, which seems really odd that we spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time dating and we never brought up, well,

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Speaker 2: how are we actually going to make ends meet? And

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Speaker 2: one should talk about those things before one gets married.

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Speaker 2: So spoiler alert, if you're dating somebody, you should probably

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Speaker 2: talk about those things before you decided to tie the knot.

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Speaker 2: We didn't, and we were living in an apartment which

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Speaker 2: was really too much rent for our income level, but

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Speaker 2: we didn't know it because we weren't tracking anything. Two

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Speaker 2: months after we get married, I open the bank statement.

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Speaker 2: It takes twenty five bucks to keep the account open,

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Speaker 2: and we've got like thirty two fifty in there. So

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Speaker 2: basically we got seven dollars and fifty cents. And I

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Speaker 2: called Larry and I said, do you have any money?

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Speaker 2: He goes, oh, yeah, I got I got twenty bucks

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Speaker 2: on my wall. And I'm like, great, we now have

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Speaker 2: a twenty seven to fifty until fay Day. And I said, look,

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Speaker 2: we are clearly because we got money for wedding gifts, right,

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Speaker 2: and it took us two months to go through that cash.

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Speaker 2: I said, I think we have a serious problem. And

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Speaker 2: we were paying on two cars. We didn't have credit

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Speaker 2: card debt, so that was huge. And I told him,

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Speaker 2: I said, I think that if we don't do something

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Speaker 2: really quickly, we're going to go down the rabbit hole

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Speaker 2: of credit card debt. In order to just survive from

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Speaker 2: one month to the next, we got to figure out

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Speaker 2: how to live within our means, because right now this

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Speaker 2: is our means. We got to figure out where the

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Speaker 2: money's going.

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Speaker 1: So were you That was the catalyst. It's seen the

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Speaker 1: bank account with almost nothing in it was it hard

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Speaker 1: to get on the same page to and you kind

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Speaker 1: of had that, you had this realization that things needed

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Speaker 1: to change. Was it hard to convince area or was

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Speaker 1: like no, no, no, we got to get we got to

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Speaker 1: go after this together. Well.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that was interesting because I told him,

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Speaker 2: I said, so, so my main goal is the next

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Speaker 2: time that we replace a car, we pay cash for

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Speaker 2: a car. And he said, you are crazy, Nobody does that.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, well, really, so we're going to be the

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Speaker 2: first then, because we're going to do this. And the

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Speaker 2: thing that I realized was that I am like this

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Speaker 2: visionary that says, oh, this is the goal, we're going

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Speaker 2: to go for it, and he is the concrete sequential.

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Speaker 2: You have to understand your partner's method of learning. It's

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Speaker 2: not even their love language. It's the way that they

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Speaker 2: learn and conceptualize information. And I said, if I make

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Speaker 2: you a chart that shows where we're at and where

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Speaker 2: we want to be and the steps we're going to

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Speaker 2: take to get there, does that work for you? And

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Speaker 2: he's like, gold, do it. And I did it, and

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Speaker 2: as soon as he saw it on paper, he's like,

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Speaker 2: I got it. So you have to understand that first

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Speaker 2: of all, your team you're going to work together, but

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Speaker 2: you've got to get inside your partner's learning modality and

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Speaker 2: say this is how you can see it.

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Speaker 1: I think it's really helpful advice because a lot of

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Speaker 1: people say this is how I want to do it.

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Speaker 1: But you're in a partnership, so you have to think about, well,

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Speaker 1: how's my spouse going to respond to that as well?

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Speaker 1: If you're single, in some ways it is easier because

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Speaker 1: you're not dealing with another person's spending or savings habits,

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Speaker 1: or their hang ups or you know, having to get

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Speaker 1: on the same page. So what was that process like

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Speaker 1: then for you guys of actually dialing down and getting

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Speaker 1: started and what were your what were your initial goals?

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Speaker 1: Because you had some debt, you had those two car

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Speaker 1: payments that you had in your life that you didn't

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Speaker 1: want to have anymore. So was that like the absolute

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Speaker 1: first thing you wanted to ditch or or where were you?

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Speaker 1: Where were you headed?

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Speaker 2: Well, the first thing we did was track everywhere the

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Speaker 2: money was going for thirty days because we had we

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Speaker 2: had no clue, and as soon as we saw it

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Speaker 2: on paper, we realized that the number one money sucking

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Speaker 2: habit we had was going out to eat. Now, we

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Speaker 2: weren't going out to eat anymore than the average couple

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Speaker 2: does in the United States of America, but for us

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Speaker 2: on our income, that was too much. So we started

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Speaker 2: to set like mini goals. We're going out to eat

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Speaker 2: once a month instead of every week. Then you figure out,

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Speaker 2: if we're not going to go out to eat, what

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Speaker 2: are we going to do? So we started going on

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Speaker 2: picnics on Friday nights. We started figuring out that if

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Speaker 2: you're going to reach financial goals, especially in the low income,

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Speaker 2: you got to figure out those substitutions so that you

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Speaker 2: don't begin to feel like you're not having any fun

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Speaker 2: in your life. So what is a creative substitution we

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Speaker 2: can use for this, or for that or for the

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Speaker 2: other thing. So we started figuring out substitutions for we're

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Speaker 2: not going to do this, We're going to do that.

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Speaker 2: You know that old book eat this, not that, And

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Speaker 2: it was kind of like that, We're like, we're not

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Speaker 2: going to do this, we're going to do that. And

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Speaker 2: once we got those down, especially on paper, because I

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Speaker 2: am a visual learner, it has to be on paper

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Speaker 2: in front of me or I just don't get it

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Speaker 2: if I even if I hear it, I'm like, nope, nope,

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Speaker 2: got to be on paper. I got to see it.

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Speaker 2: Once I see it and it's in my brain, I'm like,

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Speaker 2: I am on it. And so we figured out that

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Speaker 2: and then we were like, we got to move because

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Speaker 2: RT was our next highest famite and he was like,

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Speaker 2: where are we going to move? I said, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but someplace other than here. And it was really weird.

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Speaker 2: We went for a walk, believe it or not, in

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Speaker 2: the neighborhood where we were, and we walked down the

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Speaker 2: side street and we're like, we saw this cute little

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Speaker 2: one bedroom house and it looked empty. And Larry goes,

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Speaker 2: there's a little teeny tiny literally it was a three

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Speaker 2: by five card right near the mailbox. And I'm like, huh,

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Speaker 2: and Larry goes, I'll bet it's for rent. I'm like, seriously,

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Speaker 2: you see a house that kind of looks empty, you

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Speaker 2: see three by five card and you immediately go to

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Speaker 2: it's for rent.

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Speaker 1: Well, it was sounds like Larry's optimistic was like he

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Speaker 1: knew it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And so we looked at the little card and

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Speaker 2: it said for rent and we call and it was

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Speaker 2: by Golly less rent than we were paying for our

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Speaker 2: two bedroom apartment and it was a one bedroom house,

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Speaker 2: and we're like, we can make this work. You got

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Speaker 2: to figure out what you're going to do to make

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Speaker 2: things work, because look, the status quo wasn't working for you, right,

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Speaker 2: So we had to figure out how we were going

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Speaker 2: to change the pendulum of the status quo and come

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Speaker 2: up with a new normal.

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Speaker 1: So okay, A lot of people in the personal finance

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Speaker 1: space would say, yeah, yeah, yeah, you can cut some

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Speaker 1: of those costs and that's that's a good thing to do.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, rent is one of the biggest line items

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Speaker 1: in your buy so good on you, super smart, you know,

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Speaker 1: cut that, cut that back. But then the other side

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Speaker 1: of the equation, a lot of people would say, you

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Speaker 1: have to grow your income though, like you got to,

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Speaker 1: you gotta up your skills and work more hours. And

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Speaker 1: you uh, you know, you worked in radio like I did,

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Speaker 1: and you and I both talking about before we started

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Speaker 1: recording that you know, radio is not the most lucrative

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Speaker 1: industry to be in, especially today, So yeah, what was

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Speaker 1: And that's a whole part I think of why your

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Speaker 1: message resonates with so many people is like we did

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Speaker 1: this and we never made six figures. We weren't like crushing, crushing, crushing,

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Speaker 1: and this wasn't our massive goal. Why did that not

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Speaker 1: enter the equation more for y'all as you were kind

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Speaker 1: of starting to get on that road to financial progress.

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Speaker 2: Well, so for one thing, for us, it was figuring

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Speaker 2: out what equilibrium looked like. So we had to like

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Speaker 2: basically stop the bleeding and figure out how we were

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Speaker 2: going to write size where we were at now with

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Speaker 2: how much we were spending. For us, it was all

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Speaker 2: about figure out how to live within the means that

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Speaker 2: you have now. Now, we eventually picked up a few

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Speaker 2: little side gigs and figured out how to bring in

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Speaker 2: a little extra money here and there. But for us

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Speaker 2: it was also quality of life. It was how much

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Speaker 2: time are we going to spend together? What is important

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Speaker 2: to us as far as the amount of time we're

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Speaker 2: able to spend together as a couple versus the sacrifice

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Speaker 2: so to speak, of living in a one bedroom house

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Speaker 2: for four years that we were renting. For us, that

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Speaker 2: sacrifice was worth it, And it's all about you got

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Speaker 2: to figure out what's most important to you and could

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Speaker 2: we have made more income? I guess you know. We

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Speaker 2: were young. We could have gone back to school. We

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Speaker 2: could have, but in our industry, in radio, it was

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Speaker 2: all about experience. And I could have applied at some

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Speaker 2: other stations and things like that, but I wouldn't have

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Speaker 2: made substantially more than I was already making. I would

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Speaker 2: have had to change career fields.

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Speaker 1: So spending less just was felt more like, that's what

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Speaker 1: I want to do. Like I'm not interested in going

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Speaker 1: back to school, in finding a new career. I'm not

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Speaker 1: even interested in kind of applying other places. You liked

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Speaker 1: your life, and so the goal of earning a lot

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Speaker 1: more money just like wasn't That wasn't a catalyst for y'all.

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Speaker 2: No, it was the fact that we were really happy

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Speaker 2: with where we were. Yeah, and for us, making money

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Speaker 2: was never the end goal. You know, personal happiness and satisfaction.

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Speaker 2: You know a whole lot of people who make a

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Speaker 2: whole lot of money who aren't happy, not for sure,

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Speaker 2: Like happiness doesn't come from money and the other here's

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Speaker 2: the other thing. This was the other catalyst, and this

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Speaker 2: was important. We created a set of written goals. And

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Speaker 2: I tell people all the time, people don't want to hear.

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Speaker 2: They want to hear about saving money but they don't

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Speaker 2: want to hear about goals. And I'm like, I have

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Speaker 2: sad but true news. These are these are interlinked. They

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Speaker 2: go together. And so having written goals, and we could

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Speaker 2: see ourselves making progress toward those goals consistently and at

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Speaker 2: times far more rapidly than we thought we were going

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Speaker 2: to make progress, and we're like, could we go back

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Speaker 2: to school? Yeah, we probably could, but what do we

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Speaker 2: really want to do that because we're still we're still

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Speaker 2: hitting those goals, and that was important to us to

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Speaker 2: enjoy our life while we're doing that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I think one important thing that we have to

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Speaker 1: know making what y'all were making, making what you say

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Speaker 1: on your site less than forty thousand dollars a year

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Speaker 1: average over your over your lifetime earnings. Essentially you and

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Speaker 1: Larry that where'd you live and does how much does

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Speaker 1: like cost of living? Because I'm guessing people living in

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Speaker 1: New York City or Los Angeles or Seattle right now

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Speaker 1: listening to this or like, come on, guys, that ain't

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Speaker 1: going to cut it for me. I'm sure you hear

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Speaker 1: that retort also from people you're talking to.

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Speaker 2: We were living in the Midwest and housing in the

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Speaker 2: Midwest s far south of Chicago is pretty reasonable. So

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Speaker 2: we were really really fortunate to be living where we

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Speaker 2: were living. And you got to remember, when the story starts,

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Speaker 2: it was nineteen eighty eight, and so you know, making

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Speaker 2: what we're were making nineteen eighty eight, which was I

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Speaker 2: don't know, we were making probably a buck buck and

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Speaker 2: a half above minimum wage each in nineteen eighty eight. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that was still a fairly low income. But I mean,

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Speaker 2: I get that there's a disparity there. I totally own that.

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Speaker 2: I understand that. And that's why we say we made

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Speaker 2: an average of forty thousand dollars a year. Over the

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Speaker 2: first twenty years that we were parents. We averaged I

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Speaker 2: averaged our income every year for that twenty years, and

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Speaker 2: it averaged under forty thousand dollars a year. So we

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Speaker 2: always say we made around forty thousand dollars a year.

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Speaker 2: And that's when we were we were parents, and we

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Speaker 2: were having more children and things like.

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Speaker 1: That, So which I want to talk about in a

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Speaker 1: bit too, because not only it wasn't just the two

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Speaker 1: of you, at some point four kids come along. So

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Speaker 1: we'll get to that in just a minute. I'm curious too,

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Speaker 1: more about like the positive changes you were implementing, because

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Speaker 1: eventually you get to this point in your financial progress

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Speaker 1: and with some of those goals that you have. I

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Speaker 1: remember you talking about wanting to pay cash for a house,

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Speaker 1: and I would imagine most people listening would say, making

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Speaker 1: less than forty a year, making like a dollar twenty

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Speaker 1: five above minimum wage, buying a house with cash, there's

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Speaker 1: like something missing in that equation. I don't see how

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Speaker 1: that works out, but you made it work.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, by the time that we paid cash for

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Speaker 2: the house, we were making more than a dollar twenty

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Speaker 2: five an hour over minimum wage. So yeah, so that's

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Speaker 2: you know, that is in the equation as well. That

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Speaker 2: forty thousand dollars is an average over twenty years, so

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Speaker 2: we were making about forty forty five thousand dollars a

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Speaker 2: year when we decided, you know what, we bought our

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Speaker 2: first home. We put twenty percent down. It was in

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Speaker 2: an estate, so it was really inexpensive, and we bought

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Speaker 2: what we could afford. We paid it off in five

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Speaker 2: years and we lived in another thirteen years. Well, two

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Speaker 2: bedroom house.

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Speaker 1: When you say we bought what we could afford, yeap,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean by that? Because when you're talking

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Speaker 1: to a lender, they'll say, you can totally afford this

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Speaker 1: as long as you take out a thirty year mortgage

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Speaker 1: like you can, you can probably handle those monthly payments.

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Speaker 1: But you it sounds like your definition of afford was different.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we took what the bank said, the maximum they

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Speaker 2: said they would loan us, and we cut it by

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Speaker 2: about thirty five percent because I was like, I looked him.

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Speaker 2: We looked at each other and said, I wouldn't loan

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Speaker 2: us that kind of money.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because that sounds really wise. That sounds really wise, just.

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Speaker 2: Being really aware of what your threshold is and sticking

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Speaker 2: to that threshold. But you know, we have kids right now.

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Speaker 2: Housing right now has gone a little crazy. Even in

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Speaker 2: the Midwest. It's it's it's tough to get a home,

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Speaker 2: and we have our oldest son and his wife are

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Speaker 2: looking to buy, and so we go through scenarios with thumb.

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Speaker 2: One of you could get a better, better paying job.

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Speaker 2: You could do that, you could double down on saving

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Speaker 2: that down payment, because the higher your down payment than

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Speaker 2: the more mortgage that you can afford. Because you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're looking at a fifty thousand dollars down payment,

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Speaker 2: versus is a twenty five thousand dollars down payment. That's

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Speaker 2: a huge difference. So for us, like living on low income,

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Speaker 2: we were constantly running scenarios. It's like, all right, what

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Speaker 2: happens if we do XYZ and we read and I

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Speaker 2: mean read every book I could find on the library

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Speaker 2: shelf on personal finance. I made copious notes. We tried

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Speaker 2: things out. A lot of the systems that we use

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Speaker 2: now we're born out of those first few years of

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Speaker 2: figuring out how to make it work. So we would

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Speaker 2: make specific goals. We use what we call a pie system.

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Speaker 2: You figure out you plan, So you figure out what

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Speaker 2: your goal is, and you create a plan. The plan

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Speaker 2: is six or seven or eight steps that you're willing

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Speaker 2: to take to reach that goal, let's say in thirty days.

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Speaker 2: We just went through this.

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Speaker 1: In fact, it's like micro goals.

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Speaker 2: It is that big goal, yeah, exactly, and then you

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Speaker 2: track what you do on those for thirty days. You

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Speaker 2: implement it, and then we evaluated every thirty days. It's

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Speaker 2: like what worked, what didn't work? And part of getting

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Speaker 2: discouraged just figuring out, all right, we didn't meet the goal.

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Speaker 2: Did we move the needle at all? We just created

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Speaker 2: a goal to lower our utility bill and so spoiler alert,

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Speaker 2: we didn't reach the goal. We lowered it, but not

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Speaker 2: as much as we wanted to. So we're looking at

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Speaker 2: that right now and evaluating saying, all right, what worked,

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Speaker 2: what didn't work? Do we want to just change the benchmark?

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Speaker 2: Is are we not going to be able to reach

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Speaker 2: that goal? Are we going to be able to move

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Speaker 2: the goal? You know? Do you need to make lengthen

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Speaker 2: the goal so you're saving less every month to get

404
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Speaker 2: toward that goal. But figure out what you can do,

405
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Speaker 2: because sitting around and thinking about what you can't control

406
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Speaker 2: is just, honestly, it's not going to help you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of spending your wheels waste your time if

408
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Speaker 1: you spend too much time in that domain. But I

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Speaker 1: see it all the time, and it's true that there

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Speaker 1: are certain things that yeah, hey, the housing market has

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Speaker 1: become more difficult to enter than it was in twenty eleven, right,

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Speaker 1: But it's also there are no time to that I'm

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Speaker 1: aware of, and so yeah, that kind of just feeling

414
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Speaker 1: bad about the way things are that's not really going

415
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Speaker 1: to get you where you want to go. So it

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Speaker 1: sounds like too Gamification was a part of this, right,

417
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Speaker 1: some trial and error and some So how do you

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Speaker 1: feel like did that create like excitement for you guys

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Speaker 1: towards reaching those goals and some stick toitiveness? What how

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Speaker 1: did you think about the like making a game out

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Speaker 1: of some of that financial progress process.

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Speaker 2: Oh, we're actually huge even to this day on gamification.

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Speaker 2: It's looking at what we did and what we can

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Speaker 2: change and what the new goal is. And I always

425
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Speaker 2: tell people, Look, you set a goal, and when you

426
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Speaker 2: reach the goal, you have some sort of mini celebration.

427
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Speaker 2: It does not have to be a celebration that costs

428
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Speaker 2: you a boatload of money, but it should be something

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Speaker 2: that ear marks the fact that you reach this milestone.

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Speaker 2: You need that, like you need that emotional release of yeah,

431
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Speaker 2: we did it, and then you move on to the

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Speaker 2: next goal. Life is never without goal. That's the other

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Speaker 2: thing too. I Mean people set goals and they're like, Okay,

434
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:06,879
Speaker 2: I've reached it. I'm done. Life is one big goal.

435
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,640
Speaker 1: And many along the way. YEA, yeah, exactly, I've got

436
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:12,680
Speaker 1: We've got more I want to get to with you, hope,

437
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:18,919
Speaker 1: including raising four boys on a non significant salary, and

438
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,800
Speaker 1: also kind of want to dig into some of the

439
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: ways you view frugality, So we'll get some questions on

440
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:35,400
Speaker 1: that and more with Hopewear right after this. We're back

441
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,880
Speaker 1: for the break, still talking with Hopewear, talking about achieving

442
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 1: financial freedom without making big bucks.

443
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:43,200
Speaker 2: Hope.

444
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,440
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I was digging around on your YouTube channel

445
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,080
Speaker 1: and loved so many of the videos and love just

446
00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:50,120
Speaker 1: the way you and Larry, which, by the way, I'm

447
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: sad Larry's not here next time. We'll have to get

448
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,280
Speaker 1: him on at some point. But I had one video

449
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 1: where you talked about items that people buy that are

450
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,879
Speaker 1: totally overrated, and maybe it's good to dig into some

451
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: of that stuff, like what kind of frugal cuts were

452
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,720
Speaker 1: you making that other people, at least until you press them,

453
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: are unwilling to make.

454
00:22:09,240 --> 00:22:13,640
Speaker 2: Oh behind store brand, which just boggles my mind. I mean,

455
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: I'm old enough to remember that years and years ago,

456
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,840
Speaker 2: store brands they were kind of so so, but they've

457
00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 2: made huge strides, And truthfully, it's been shown over and

458
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,639
Speaker 2: over again that a lot of those store brands are

459
00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 2: made on the very same equipment, the very same conveyor belt,

460
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,760
Speaker 2: the very same factory. Everything. It's a different label on

461
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,479
Speaker 2: the box, So try it. Like look it's forty percent

462
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 2: is significant savings when you're looking at the difference in

463
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 2: general between store brand and name brand, and that's a

464
00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:47,199
Speaker 2: heck of a savings to look at. One of the

465
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 2: things that we did was that I made I made

466
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: all of our bread from scratch, four boys at home.

467
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:57,560
Speaker 2: Once a week we would have baking day. I don't

468
00:22:57,560 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: expect everybody to be able to do that, but I

469
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:00,960
Speaker 2: was at home with the kids. One of the things.

470
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 2: And we talked about priorities as we had kids. One

471
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 2: of the things we prioritized was having one of us

472
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,800
Speaker 2: at home with them. And we homeschooled, so it was

473
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,360
Speaker 2: important that one of us be there to be the educator,

474
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 2: primary educator for the kids. And so we did give

475
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,720
Speaker 2: up a lot of stuff and we spent Instead of

476
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,479
Speaker 2: spending money, we spent time. So it was the idea

477
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:27,520
Speaker 2: of making the bread once a week from scratch. And

478
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,159
Speaker 2: here's one of the other things. And people will miss this,

479
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,480
Speaker 2: but hear me carefully, no matter what income you are

480
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 2: living on, you need to figure out how you can

481
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:41,560
Speaker 2: serve others because giving is so important. And if you

482
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:43,679
Speaker 2: don't have a lot of money, you can give of

483
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,359
Speaker 2: your time, you can give you your effort. There was

484
00:23:45,400 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 2: a single lady that live next door, and she would

485
00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,760
Speaker 2: wait every Tuesday to see I put all of a

486
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 2: sample of all the big goods I'd made that day

487
00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: on a tray and the kids would take it over

488
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,400
Speaker 2: to her. And her sister told me, she said, you've

489
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 2: no idea what that means to her. She won't eat

490
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,359
Speaker 2: lunch and tell and tell. Her little tray arrives and

491
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,680
Speaker 2: she sees what she has to pick from. Yeah, And

492
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: so finding a way to bless others will keep you motivated,

493
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,280
Speaker 2: because there's nothing better than reminding yourself there are other

494
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: folks out there who are also struggling, and doing what

495
00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:23,479
Speaker 2: you can to help them is just so important. At

496
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: any level of income.

497
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: That's it. I think that's a great point, especially just

498
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 1: from your mindset, because it's really easy to feel sorry

499
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 1: for yourself or to feel like you're not making progresses quickly,

500
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,479
Speaker 1: and then you see other people who are in more

501
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 1: difficult circumstances, and then it can hopefully right size your gratitude.

502
00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: You on that list of things that you tell people

503
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: to buy, you put like napkins and hair care on there.

504
00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 1: I think some people might be like, why we shouldn't

505
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: I find napkins?

506
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 2: Hope?

507
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: That seems crazy, Like most people dunk on the lattes,

508
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: the avocado toast, but napkins. Like what am I supposed

509
00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:58,199
Speaker 1: to wrie my hands with?

510
00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 2: Well, you know, you have all old clothing that is

511
00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:03,479
Speaker 2: worn out. You cut it into squares. There you go,

512
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,239
Speaker 2: and you can use it. And we're not saying you know,

513
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: and we tell people all the time, we're like, look,

514
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:09,520
Speaker 2: we're just throwing spaghetti at the wall. Yeah, we give

515
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,080
Speaker 2: you hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of tips. You pick

516
00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 2: the ones that work for you. If you tell me

517
00:25:14,280 --> 00:25:15,920
Speaker 2: I'm going to buy napkins, I'm going to say, well

518
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 2: you go. If those napkins are your priority, you buy

519
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 2: those napkins.

520
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 1: Yeah.

521
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 2: But for people who are struggling and feeling like why

522
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 2: can I use other than napkins, Well, you cut things

523
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 2: into squares and then you've got them neatly folded in

524
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,200
Speaker 2: some sort of a container in new kitchen. You grab

525
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:32,159
Speaker 2: one of those and you use it instead of a napkin.

526
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:33,720
Speaker 2: Then you can wash it up when you're done, and

527
00:25:33,760 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 2: you can use it again.

528
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,640
Speaker 1: You're making me think of just how cars and homes

529
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,679
Speaker 1: in the nineteen seventies are not the same as cars

530
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,199
Speaker 1: and homes in twenty twenty five, right, yeah, absolutely. You

531
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,239
Speaker 1: compare a Toyota Corola, my nineteen eighty nineteen eighty nine

532
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: Toyta Corolla, my first car, to a modern Toyta Corolla,

533
00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: and they're completely different from like size and fanciness and

534
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,680
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. And we just get used

535
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: to fancy your stuff, and I think, yeah, it's probably

536
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: good for us just from like, from like an innate

537
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,199
Speaker 1: human perspective to challenge some of those assumptions. Do I

538
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 1: need something that fancy? But also it can help us

539
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 1: save money, right right?

540
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: And we talked some about seeking the minimum. So can

541
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,520
Speaker 2: you buy napkins? Well, of course you can buy napkins,

542
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: but is your minimum Maybe that you're going to use

543
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 2: those class squares instead, And that's an okay swap for you.

544
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: We talk about frugal swaps all the time. That's an

545
00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: example of a frugal swap. I'm going to swap this.

546
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,159
Speaker 2: I'm cool with using this square of an old teacher

547
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:38,719
Speaker 2: that isn't going to fit anymore, has got holes in it.

548
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: I'm cool with using that to mop up the spill

549
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 2: rather than buy napkins. If that's not cool for you,

550
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,439
Speaker 2: figure out other frugal swaps that do work.

551
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,240
Speaker 1: You also talked about and you mentioned earlier that, oh,

552
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,040
Speaker 1: I've read most of those personal finance books in the library,

553
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: And you talked about being a perpetual learner. You call

554
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: yourself a student of saving money, so you're teaching, but

555
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,959
Speaker 1: you're also a student. How is that mindset been helpful

556
00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:02,199
Speaker 1: for you?

557
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 2: I don't think I ever want to get to a

558
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: point where I think I've arrived. Yeah, that's just a

559
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:10,400
Speaker 2: terrible place to be in life, because nobody knows it all.

560
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 2: And there are so many things that I can still learn,

561
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: even after over thirty five years of frugality, finding new ways,

562
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 2: different ways to do things. You know what the truth

563
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: is like things that are available in twenty twenty five

564
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 2: are different than the things that we're available as far

565
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 2: as frugality is concerned in nineteen eighty eight. And there

566
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,920
Speaker 2: are new things that come out every day, and I'm like, oh, well,

567
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 2: that seems like that's a frugal thing. And so being

568
00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 2: willing to flex and being willing to change, oh my word,

569
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:43,439
Speaker 2: people have to be willing to change the behavior to

570
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: get the desired result.

571
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 1: Where do you find when you're talking to people who

572
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: follow your advice that they're typically there's like a big

573
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,159
Speaker 1: leak that they haven't recognized. Where are the number ones?

574
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: Is it the grocery store? Is it the is it

575
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 1: overspending on vacations?

576
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:02,000
Speaker 2: Like?

577
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:05,600
Speaker 1: Where are people who really do need to they're not

578
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:07,960
Speaker 1: making six figures and they really do need to buckle down.

579
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 1: Where are those first places that they should look?

580
00:28:10,920 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 2: Okay, two different places. One place is your grocery budget.

581
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:18,080
Speaker 2: People don't understand how to go to the grocery store.

582
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: Shop with a list, shop buy those loss leaders. Lost

583
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,679
Speaker 2: leaders are those items on the front page of the

584
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: flyer that they've made an ultra low price and you

585
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 2: go in and you plan. Let's say say Cauliflowers is

586
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 2: on sale, it's a lost leader. It's ninety nine cents

587
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 2: for a whole head of cauliflower, which would be huge,

588
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: that would be a really great deal. I'm going to

589
00:28:38,640 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: go in, I'm going to buy three of those heads

590
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 2: of cauliflower. I'm going to spend three bucks, and I'm

591
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 2: going to plan most of my meals that week around cauliflower.

592
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,840
Speaker 2: When you do that, when you're consistently menu planning around

593
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 2: items that you got on sale or on clearance or

594
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 2: on markdown, your grocery budget is going to drop. You

595
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: also need to analyze your grocery receipts. What are you

596
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: spending your money on? Is fifty percent of your bill meet? Well,

597
00:29:07,200 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 2: if your carnivore, it probably is. It probably is. If

598
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 2: you're keto, it's going to be a lot of meat.

599
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 2: But what are those other areas you're spending money on

600
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 2: at the grocery store that you could cut back on.

601
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: For us, we're plant based, so it's easy for me

602
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 2: to say cut out meat because we don't need it,

603
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 2: you know what I'm saying.

604
00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: But I'm just covering my years and saying la la

605
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: la la la when you say that, because I don't want.

606
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 2: To hear it. That's okay, because there are other areas

607
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 2: that you're dropping money on at the grocery store that

608
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 2: you could cut back on. It. It's all figuring out

609
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 2: where those leaks are. But the other thing that people

610
00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: need to look at is they need to look at

611
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: impulse spending. Look, people spend money because they get depressed

612
00:29:44,960 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: because they don't have enough money, so they spend more

613
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:49,720
Speaker 2: money because they're depressed about not having enough money. Do

614
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: you see what I'm saying. It's a weird vicious circle.

615
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 2: And when you stop, and this is one of the

616
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: things we tell people, you need to stop and analyze

617
00:29:56,960 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: that emotion. People are afraid of their emotions surrounding money.

618
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 2: They're afraid to acknowledge I feel powerless, I feel stuck.

619
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: And because of that, the emotion is driving, yeah, purchasing

620
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: decisions and driving their financial life into a ditch continually.

621
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 2: Absolutely. But when they take a minute and they name it,

622
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:17,640
Speaker 2: just sit and take a deep breath, put your feet

623
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,960
Speaker 2: on the floor so you're grounded, and say, what am

624
00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 2: I feeling right now?

625
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:21,240
Speaker 1: Yeah?

626
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: Why am I wanting to hit that big red by button?

627
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: Because clearly I don't need a thousand napkins, or maybe

628
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 2: you do. But you know what I'm saying, what is

629
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 2: it that's in your cart that you're like, I'm going

630
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:34,960
Speaker 2: to push that button. I'm gonna push it now because

631
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 2: I am feeling what When you name it, it makes

632
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 2: it powerless? Yeah, and you're able to say, all right,

633
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: what can I do? Instead of I'm feeling sad or

634
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 2: I'm feeling deprived? What can I do? Instead that's going

635
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: to feel that emotional void for me without spending money.

636
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe it's a good idea to have like

637
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: a list of a few activities where it's like I'm

638
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: feeling this way, or I'm going for a walk, I'm

639
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,120
Speaker 1: feeling this way. I'm gonna call my friend, right, have

640
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 1: maybe a couple things that you can do instead that

641
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: are also going to feel soothing, instead of doing the

642
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: thing that you've been doing for a long time that

643
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 1: feels soothing. But my goodness, it's ended you. It's put

644
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: you in a bad place. I'm curious about the lost

645
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: leaders though, going back to that when you walk into

646
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 1: the grocery, there's a reason the loss leaders exist, right,

647
00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: So they're hoping you're going to come in for the

648
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: cauliflower and then stick around for the bags of chips

649
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: and they cost five dollars or something like that. Absolutely,

650
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 1: So how do you kind of get around that that

651
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,959
Speaker 1: conundrum where the grocery stores are they want to get

652
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: you through those middle aisles of all the prepackaged foods.

653
00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and part of it is understanding marketing principles. So

654
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 2: I have a degree in radio and television, but in

655
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:47,320
Speaker 2: getting that degree, I took a marketing class and in

656
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: that class, the prof was amazing. He went through all

657
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: of these ways that stores get you to spend money.

658
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,160
Speaker 2: And it's been almost forty years and I still use

659
00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 2: those same principles because the marketing tactics are exactly the same. Yeah,

660
00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: so they're going to put stuff next to that cauliflower

661
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 2: that like.

662
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 1: The physics class, which I haven't used since you know.

663
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 2: Yes, right, that's so true. And so they're going to

664
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 2: put items next to that cauliflower that kind of go

665
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 2: with cauliflower, but their full price. It is called it's

666
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 2: called cross selling. They do it all the time. And

667
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:19,240
Speaker 2: you're going to look at that and they're going to

668
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,680
Speaker 2: convince you. Let's see, what would they put with cauliflower.

669
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,160
Speaker 2: I don't know, hot sauce, because you're going to make

670
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: buffalo wings or something out of the cauliflower. So they're

671
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 2: going to put some other things that go with it

672
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: to convince you this is what you want to make

673
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 2: with your cauliflower. But you're paying full price for everything

674
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 2: that's sitting next to that cauliflower. They only go on

675
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 2: sale on that display is the cauliflower. So recognizing what

676
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: they are doing to try to get you to spend

677
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 2: money and then figuring out your tactics to avoid it.

678
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 1: So are you looking at the ads ahead of time

679
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 1: and you're saying, here's what's on sale. You're making a

680
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: list based on the flyers before you actually go into

681
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:54,880
Speaker 1: the store, and then you're sticking to it, or what

682
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: would cause you hope to not stick to your list

683
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:58,960
Speaker 1: and buy something it wasn't on it.

684
00:32:59,040 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 2: The only time I really don't stick to the list

685
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 2: is if I find something that's on markedown. Okay, but

686
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: here's how I deal with that. This is something that

687
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: we've done for years and it works super duper well

688
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 2: to be able to afford to buy something you find

689
00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 2: on the clearance shelf or something in the marked down

690
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: ben that you're like, oh my gosh, this is a

691
00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 2: fantastic deal. But if I buy five of these, it's

692
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,520
Speaker 2: going to blow my grocery budget out. We do something

693
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: called the one fifths method. We take our entire grocery

694
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 2: budget for the month, we divide it into fifths one

695
00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 2: fifth of that. So if you have a five hundred

696
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:32,680
Speaker 2: dollars grocery budget, one fifth is one hundred bucks. That

697
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 2: one hundred dollars is the stock up money for the

698
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: whole month. So if we find a fantastic deal, we

699
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: can spend out of that one hundred dollars pool of

700
00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: cash the other four fifths, which would be four hundred

701
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,480
Speaker 2: dollars and a five hundred dollars grocery budget that's divided

702
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,840
Speaker 2: into fourth so that that's your weekly grocery budget. Then okay,

703
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,120
Speaker 2: and you can stock up and not blow your grocery

704
00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: budget smitherings or wind up with twenty bucks for the

705
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 2: last ten days of the month.

706
00:33:58,760 --> 00:34:00,200
Speaker 1: I like that it gives you a little bit to

707
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: that flexibility to pounds, because it's really tough to say,

708
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 1: that's such a good deal, and I would buy the

709
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:08,880
Speaker 1: from In my case, because I'm a meat eater, I

710
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:11,360
Speaker 1: would buy the pork butt that's on sale for a

711
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: dollar fifty a pound. But I no, no, it's not

712
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 1: on the list, you know, but it would. It would

713
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,600
Speaker 1: bum me out because I'm like, that's a great deal.

714
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,399
Speaker 1: It's gonna be like three dollars a pound next week.

715
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I like that you offer people a little

716
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:24,800
Speaker 1: bit of that flexibility, or you create some flexibility in

717
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,960
Speaker 1: your grocery budget that way. Let's talk about kids. You've

718
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: got four not just children, but boys who I've only

719
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: got one boy and two girls, and he's young, so

720
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: I'm like not sure at some point to think he's

721
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: gonna eat me out of house at home, but we're

722
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 1: not quite there yet. What did their childhood look like

723
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: and were they lusting after the Nikes or brand name

724
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: T shirts or like, I just remember when I was

725
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:52,000
Speaker 1: a kid, and those are the things that I wanted.

726
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: I pestered my parents for. I still remember Jinko jeans,

727
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 1: I'm Gonna date myself and Tommy Hill Figure T shirts.

728
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: So it's amazing that those were even popular, but that

729
00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 1: when you look back style man, But yeah, what was

730
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,640
Speaker 1: that like? And being an incredibly intentional, frugal household but

731
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 1: having boys who wanted to fit in and be cool.

732
00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:16,719
Speaker 2: Well, one of the things we did was we never

733
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 2: tell them no, we can't afford that.

734
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:18,560
Speaker 1: Mm.

735
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 2: That's like you just what we did when we said, well,

736
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 2: let's put this on the list. There was a list

737
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: of things that we wanted. There's always a want list,

738
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: and then you start doing market research and figuring out

739
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: to set ever go on sale? When does it go

740
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 2: on sale? What's the second hand market like for this item?

741
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 2: Can I get it secondhand and still be happy with it?

742
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 2: And we would explain to them, like, there's a time frame.

743
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:45,840
Speaker 2: You have a list of once, but you have to

744
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: have delayed gratification in those ones. And it's okay to

745
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:54,160
Speaker 2: say I want the Tommy Hill figure the wait, I

746
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,279
Speaker 2: want that clothing, but you might have to bide your

747
00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: time and wait until that shop has a sale at

748
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: say thirty or fifty percent off, or you might have

749
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:05,560
Speaker 2: to buy that long slave shirt buy it off season. Yeah,

750
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 2: because then when all the spring and summer stuff is

751
00:36:07,880 --> 00:36:09,960
Speaker 2: coming in, they're going to be selling that long slave

752
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 2: shirt for sixty seventy percent off because they wanted off

753
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,359
Speaker 2: their shelves. It's all timing, and it's all figuring out

754
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,000
Speaker 2: how to get what you want at a price you're

755
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 2: willing to pay.

756
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: Was it ever for your boys? Was there the opportunity

757
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,399
Speaker 1: to earn money so that they could save towards a goal.

758
00:36:25,440 --> 00:36:28,759
Speaker 1: If you're like, hey, that that thing you want to

759
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,720
Speaker 1: purchase was pretty expensive, and it's not that we can't

760
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,440
Speaker 1: afford it, but that's not a priority right now, and

761
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: if you really want that. That was one of the

762
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: things my parents said was like, we will pay this

763
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: much for your shoes. If you want to fancy Scottie

764
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: Pippen shoes, which is what I wanted, you have to

765
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: find a way, whether it's like birthday money stuff like that,

766
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:49,040
Speaker 1: like you've got to bring a bunch to the table,

767
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:52,319
Speaker 1: or you can live within the budget that we've set. Like,

768
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: were you having those kind of conversations, Oh?

769
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 2: Absolutely so. One of the things we did with our

770
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: kids is when they turned thirteen, between the ages of five,

771
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 2: thirteen and sixteen, we gave them allowance from age five

772
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:05,959
Speaker 2: to when they turned thirteen, and we had them buy

773
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 2: items they wanted out of that allowance. One of the

774
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: things we did was they would get five bucks and

775
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 2: want to go to Dollar Tree and buy five really

776
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 2: inexpensive plastic toys that were going to break in like

777
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,120
Speaker 2: five minutes, and we never stopped them. We said, you

778
00:37:20,239 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 2: know what, and we would tell them, we feel like

779
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 2: that's not you know, you want to save up till

780
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: you get ten or fifteen dollars and get the quality item.

781
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 2: But if they wanted to spend their five dollars, they

782
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 2: could do it however they wanted to. But when that

783
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,239
Speaker 2: item broke, we did not replace it. We told them

784
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 2: how sad we were for them that what they bought

785
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,600
Speaker 2: for their five dollars broke and let's figure out a

786
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 2: new goal now to save toward the fifteen dollars item

787
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 2: that maybe is going to last a little longer. They

788
00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: learned so much from that at the age of six

789
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:51,799
Speaker 2: or seven that they wouldn't have learned had we gone

790
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,960
Speaker 2: out and spent the five bucks which we could have

791
00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 2: afforded to replace that small item from dollar Tree. But

792
00:37:58,040 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 2: the other thing we did was when they turned thirteen,

793
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,839
Speaker 2: we told them, we said, we're not going to pay

794
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 2: you allowance anymore. Instead, we're going to invest in your

795
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 2: goals and your hopes and your dreams. You give us

796
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 2: a list of items that you are saving for. You

797
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:14,879
Speaker 2: find a way to earn money from someone besides us

798
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 2: for half of the cost of that item, and we're

799
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,560
Speaker 2: going to kick in the other half. And we bought

800
00:38:21,160 --> 00:38:24,319
Speaker 2: it cost us so much more than that allowance to

801
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,320
Speaker 2: but it was worth every penny because they would start

802
00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: asking around for friends, do you need your lawn mode,

803
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 2: do you need a babysitting, all kinds of pet sitting.

804
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 2: They did all kinds of stuff to earn money. And

805
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,839
Speaker 2: as they started accruing money, we would say, well, let's

806
00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:42,279
Speaker 2: do some market research. Let's figure out what that item is,

807
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,799
Speaker 2: figure out exactly what make, what model you want, how

808
00:38:44,880 --> 00:38:46,400
Speaker 2: much it's going to cost. Can you find it on

809
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 2: the used market? And so it was like a little

810
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: mini course in how to figure out what you want

811
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,319
Speaker 2: to purchase and be happy when you get done that

812
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 2: you got what you wanted. But they had to give

813
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: us the list ahead of time because we had to

814
00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 2: save up our half. We had a couple of boys

815
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: that didn't take advantage of it, and oh boy, we

816
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: had a couple of boys that they'd give us a

817
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 2: list of six things and because they knew when they

818
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:12,839
Speaker 2: turned sixteen the deal was off because at sixteen they

819
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 2: got a part time job and they needed to buy

820
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: their own things. And my husband was like, I don't know.

821
00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:19,919
Speaker 2: I don't think he's going to say for all six

822
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:21,560
Speaker 2: of these things. And I said, I think we ought

823
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:22,359
Speaker 2: to plan for it.

824
00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,360
Speaker 1: And I was right, well, that's interesting how different personalities,

825
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 1: right that some kids are like go getters. My oldest

826
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,800
Speaker 1: child is she would totally take full advantage of that

827
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:36,560
Speaker 1: and she get some babysitting gigs. My middle child would

828
00:39:36,960 --> 00:39:38,920
Speaker 1: walk into the class like, she's just not as interested

829
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: and it just doesn't quite have the same understanding of money.

830
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,720
Speaker 1: So they kind of come pre made a little differently.

831
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,280
Speaker 1: So I was going to say, you're boys, but really

832
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: they're grown at this point. You've had you had Daniel

833
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: on your channel recently to talk about whether or not

834
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,520
Speaker 1: he follows the advice that you have given over many,

835
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 1: many years. So what yeah, what are what's their relationship like?

836
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: And I know it's going to be different because they're

837
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,880
Speaker 1: different individuals, but what's their relationship like with money?

838
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 2: It's so interesting to us because all four of them

839
00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 2: are frugal in their own way, but I see all

840
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,480
Speaker 2: of them prioritize different things. For my oldest son and

841
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 2: his wife, it's travel man. They want experiences, so they

842
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 2: set more of their income aside for just being able

843
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: to go out and do things than any of the

844
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: other three combined. Yeah, and that's okay because that's their priority.

845
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 2: But they're still hitting financial goals. They're the ones that

846
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 2: are looking for a house, so they cut back just

847
00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,560
Speaker 2: a little bit on experiences right now. But I've seen

848
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: all four of them figure out how to balance what

849
00:40:45,719 --> 00:40:49,480
Speaker 2: they want with what they need with their income level,

850
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,440
Speaker 2: and it's been it's been really fun and really gratifying

851
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 2: to watch them as grown adults.

852
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 1: That's cool. I can tell you guys have such a

853
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,920
Speaker 1: great family relationship and that they trust you, and then

854
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: they've listened to you throughout the years and they have

855
00:41:04,239 --> 00:41:08,120
Speaker 1: their own take, but they're also they didn't abandon the

856
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,759
Speaker 1: principles that you taught, so you should be proud of that.

857
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: Or We've got a few more questions I want to

858
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: get to Hope with you, including well, what about building

859
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 1: wealth as a frugal person? How important is that? So

860
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,439
Speaker 1: we'll get to that, and then some random questions too.

861
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: You guys are e bike writers, which I'm a fan of,

862
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: so we'll get to that more in just a second.

863
00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: With Hope, we're back still talking with Hope. We're talking

864
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:39,040
Speaker 1: about achieving financial freedom with out making a ton of money. Hope.

865
00:41:39,080 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: One of the things that we haven't talked about that

866
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: I'm really, really really curious to hear your take on

867
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,799
Speaker 1: is building wealth, because those are different sides of the coin,

868
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:52,279
Speaker 1: right there is you guys incredible at being frugal, very

869
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: good savers. What's your take on building wealth and investing

870
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 1: for the future? And how do you prioritize that in

871
00:41:57,840 --> 00:41:58,280
Speaker 1: your life.

872
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 2: Okay, first start young. This is a mistake that we

873
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,319
Speaker 2: honestly made, and we're really open about this on our

874
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: YouTube channel. Is the fact that we really did not

875
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,319
Speaker 2: start investing investing for retirement until Larry was in his

876
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 2: mid forties, and that was a huge mistake. We should

877
00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: prioritize that when we were both in our twenties and

878
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 2: thirties rather than waiting that long. Here's what happens when

879
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:24,239
Speaker 2: you're struggling to save money and you do have a

880
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: low income. You look at everything. Let's say, you look

881
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 2: at things like a pie chart, right, so so much

882
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:33,239
Speaker 2: is going for food, so much is going for clothing, shelter, transportation,

883
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,120
Speaker 2: all that, and you start looking at those slivers that

884
00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:38,879
Speaker 2: are left over and you think, oh, my lord, that's

885
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: a small sliver leftover for investing for the future, for

886
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,640
Speaker 2: saving for future goals. And it can be really debilitating.

887
00:42:45,960 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: So one of the things that I did was I

888
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:52,359
Speaker 2: created a spreadsheet which was prioritized, because everything in my

889
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 2: life is prioritized, and it listed the most important things.

890
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 2: But the other thing was it assigned a time value

891
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:02,799
Speaker 2: to it. How many years out are we looking for

892
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:04,919
Speaker 2: this goal, and for that goal and the other goal,

893
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,160
Speaker 2: and it became a lot easier for me to look

894
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,640
Speaker 2: at that sliver that was left over and assign it

895
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:14,239
Speaker 2: to those specific goals, realizing that we're looking some of

896
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 2: the goals like retirement. When I first figured out what

897
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 2: Larry needed for retirement, I thought it was going to

898
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 2: pass out and I said, Babe, I think we're going

899
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 2: to work for I don't know forever. Well we didn't.

900
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,280
Speaker 2: He retired two years ago, so you know, we managed

901
00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 2: to reach that goal, but it was overwhelming. And when

902
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 2: a goal is overwhelming, you have to break it down

903
00:43:36,680 --> 00:43:39,520
Speaker 2: to smaller increments. You have to figure out what am

904
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 2: I looking at on a yearly basis, a monthly basis,

905
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 2: a weekly basis. When you do that math, we're so

906
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 2: big on that. Do the math. Do the math. Do

907
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:47,319
Speaker 2: the math.

908
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:49,520
Speaker 1: Well, not having a home or a car payment should

909
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 1: help a lot, like you're going to have lower expenses

910
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,480
Speaker 1: in retirement. So I think sometimes people you're right, get

911
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,920
Speaker 1: started early, but sometimes people also overestimate. We've seen the

912
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:00,680
Speaker 1: commercials where it's like you need two point four million

913
00:44:00,719 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: dollars in your retirement accounts in order to have a

914
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 1: decent living and I think a lot of people like

915
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: have bought into that and that Yeah it might be nice,

916
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: but you don't need.

917
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 2: It, you know. And I think, and you mentioned Dott,

918
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: that was one thing that after we paid those two

919
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: cars off, we avoided debt like the plague.

920
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:18,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

921
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:20,200
Speaker 2: Now, we did take out a mortgage on our first house,

922
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:22,760
Speaker 2: which we paid for in five years. We were both working.

923
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 2: We made double payments and we got that thing out

924
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,840
Speaker 2: of there because we knew moving forward, the most important

925
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 2: asset we had was our ability to live lean because

926
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:32,760
Speaker 2: we didn't owe anybody any money.

927
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:36,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's huge. I think the a casual relationship

928
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:40,279
Speaker 1: with with debt that people have, it's like I'll hear

929
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: people go like, yeah, I got a couple grant in

930
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 1: credit card debt, like I'm doing better than everybody else

931
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,759
Speaker 1: because look at that, it's not much. And I'm like, no,

932
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: like zero is always the answer. E bikes. Yes, I'm

933
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,840
Speaker 1: a huge e bike rider. It's sitting right outside of

934
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:55,240
Speaker 1: my office right now. I took my son to school

935
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: on it this morning. You y'all ride right and Larry

936
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: he got an accident And how big of how important

937
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 1: are e bikes do you think to saving money?

938
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, he has well. First, when I met him,

939
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,479
Speaker 2: he was a long distance bike rider, so he would

940
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:14,360
Speaker 2: ride fifty sixty miles at a stretch. He has always

941
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:17,000
Speaker 2: loved bike riding, so as he got older it was

942
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:20,480
Speaker 2: a little more difficult to pedal and things like that.

943
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 2: So he got an e bike and he wrote it

944
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 2: for thousands. In fact, he still does. He rides his

945
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: e bike every single day that he can. But yeah,

946
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:29,919
Speaker 2: so he had an accident a couple of years ago

947
00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 2: on his e bike. It was a week before our

948
00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: oldest son's wedding, so that was an interesting experience. He

949
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 2: was in the hospital for five days and the kids

950
00:45:38,239 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 2: kept saying, should we move the date back, and I said, no,

951
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: your father's gonna be there, And so he was there.

952
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 2: He walked down the aisle with a cane because he

953
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 2: refused to use a walker. He was like, I'm using

954
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 2: a cane. It looks I'm not your right, babe. That

955
00:45:53,520 --> 00:46:00,080
Speaker 2: looks much less conspicuous than a walker. And yeah, he

956
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 2: had a traumatic brain injury, but he's all healed now

957
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,560
Speaker 2: and back on the bike, and it's just it's super

958
00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:07,160
Speaker 2: important to him. He used to ride it back and

959
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,399
Speaker 2: forth when he worked. He worked downtown, which was seven

960
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: and a half miles each direction from our house. He

961
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:14,560
Speaker 2: would ride it back and forth to work all the

962
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:15,960
Speaker 2: time and good weather.

963
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:19,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, almost exactly was my bike commute for a long time,

964
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 1: and it was. It is amazing. It did. Not only

965
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: did it save me money, but it made me really happy.

966
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:29,279
Speaker 1: And there's a lot to be said for that. My

967
00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 1: wife would know if I drove the car that day

968
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,440
Speaker 1: because I'd come home and I just wasn't as joyful,

969
00:46:33,480 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: you know, there wasn't as much big of a smile

970
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 1: on my face because there's something about the bike ride

971
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 1: to and from that just like sparks joy in my life.

972
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: And yeah, I would love to see more people get

973
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,760
Speaker 1: on that, I think, especially if you live and work

974
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:49,480
Speaker 1: fairly close together and you can get saddle bags on

975
00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: your bike, go grocery shopping with your bike, that's that

976
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, take your kids to school on the bike.

977
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: That really adds up in saving miles and wear and

978
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,040
Speaker 1: tear on your car. But it and for some people

979
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:04,400
Speaker 1: it can even mean potentially ditching a car, which is

980
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:06,520
Speaker 1: which is huge savings. Have you have you did you

981
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:09,000
Speaker 1: guys ever have like one car family or anything like that.

982
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 2: We did when when our oldest son was born, we

983
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,319
Speaker 2: realized we could not afford two cars, and we went

984
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 2: down to one car for about I don't think it

985
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 2: was three or four years. Okay, by the time we

986
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 2: bought a second car, we had two kids, and we're like,

987
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,239
Speaker 2: I feel like, maybe we need a second car now.

988
00:47:22,480 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 2: And then by at that point we had saved out

989
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 2: the money and we could afford to buy a second.

990
00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,439
Speaker 1: Car, even doing it for just a limited time. Yeah,

991
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 1: like two, three years, the amount of money you can

992
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: save on insurance, and then like, yeah, you can you

993
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: can buy another car down the road. That's that's what

994
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 1: we did. We had one car for a while and

995
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,680
Speaker 1: then added a second one because we needed one at

996
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: that point in time. But avoiding it for a little

997
00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,439
Speaker 1: while can kind of juice your ability to fund other

998
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: financial goals. All right, I'm curious too about your creation

999
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,879
Speaker 1: of YouTube videos and you and Larry like you've been

1000
00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: doing it for how long now? How big is this

1001
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 1: operation gotten? Because it sure seems like you had a

1002
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: lot of subscribers. You're reaching a lot of people.

1003
00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:02,680
Speaker 2: So we've been doing YouTube regularly for about five years.

1004
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 2: And remember I worked in radio, Larry worked in television,

1005
00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 2: so YouTube was a good fit for us. We knew

1006
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: that right off the bat. What we didn't know is

1007
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 2: how many people would be really interested in ways to

1008
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:16,680
Speaker 2: save money. Because the channel grew like exponentially the minute

1009
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,000
Speaker 2: we started putting videos up. We have two hundred sixteen

1010
00:48:20,080 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 2: thousand subscribers, amazing, and we get upwards of four hundred,

1011
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:27,839
Speaker 2: four hundred and fifty thousand views a month. And it's

1012
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 2: been fun. That's the thing. Like, I mean, we talked

1013
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 2: about doing something just sparks joy for you, for us,

1014
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:36,760
Speaker 2: this is just fun to share with folks a little

1015
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:41,839
Speaker 2: piece of life with us and talk about how you

1016
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 2: can spend less and save more and reach your great

1017
00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: big financial goals. We say, grab those great big financial

1018
00:48:47,239 --> 00:48:49,160
Speaker 2: goals with both hands and refuse to let go. Because

1019
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: that's what we did. We were like, if somebody had

1020
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:53,080
Speaker 2: said you can't do that in your income, which some

1021
00:48:53,120 --> 00:48:56,799
Speaker 2: people did, we were like, really watch us, because we

1022
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 2: were we were a team, and we're like, well, so

1023
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,239
Speaker 2: we're formidable together, we're gonna do this thing. And we

1024
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 2: refuse to take no for an answer. And when we

1025
00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:07,239
Speaker 2: reached a roadblock, we were like all right, we're either

1026
00:49:07,280 --> 00:49:09,080
Speaker 2: going to go through it, we're going to go around it,

1027
00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:10,920
Speaker 2: but one of the two things is going to happen.

1028
00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:13,760
Speaker 1: Okay, I Hope. This has been such a fun conversation.

1029
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:17,239
Speaker 1: I've really really enjoyed it. Where can how do money

1030
00:49:17,239 --> 00:49:19,880
Speaker 1: listeners go to find out more about you and what

1031
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 1: you're up to?

1032
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:22,719
Speaker 2: All right, you can find me at my website under

1033
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 2: the Median dot com. Oh, we named it that because

1034
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:28,399
Speaker 2: we raised the kids debt free on an income which

1035
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:32,439
Speaker 2: is consistently under the US National median income as where

1036
00:49:32,520 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 2: under the median comes from. So under the Median dot com.

1037
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,120
Speaker 2: And we're on YouTube at under the Median.

1038
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: Wonderful, Hope, Thank you so much for your time. I

1039
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 1: really enjoyed this.

1040
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:41,760
Speaker 2: Thanks out a blast.

1041
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 1: Okay, what's not to like or really love about Hope?

1042
00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: What an inspiring person and her content that she creates

1043
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,960
Speaker 1: with her husband Larry is totally worth checking out over

1044
00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,080
Speaker 1: at YouTube. We'll put links to her channel in the

1045
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 1: show notes. I think I should offer a big takeaway.

1046
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 1: I've got two things I really feel compelled to share

1047
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: after speaking with Hope today. And I think just the

1048
00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:13,640
Speaker 1: fact that she's proving something that most people would say

1049
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:18,439
Speaker 1: is impossible, that is possible to live well on less

1050
00:50:18,440 --> 00:50:21,560
Speaker 1: than forty thousand dollars, to pay off a home in

1051
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 1: five years, to buy the next home with cash, to

1052
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 1: pay for cars with cash. I mean, all that kind

1053
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 1: of stuff. People would say, no, way, not possible, and

1054
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm just going to do it, and then like, okay,

1055
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 1: tell me it can't be done once I've done it.

1056
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,400
Speaker 1: And one of the things she said at the beginning

1057
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,880
Speaker 1: was that so many people feel a lack of agency,

1058
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:43,040
Speaker 1: like a lack of the fact that they're kind of

1059
00:50:43,040 --> 00:50:46,399
Speaker 1: in control of their own story, and that leads to

1060
00:50:46,719 --> 00:50:49,919
Speaker 1: a lot of the struggles saying encounter because it's really

1061
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,600
Speaker 1: easy to point fingers and it's really easy to feel

1062
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,480
Speaker 1: like you're riding not in the driver's seat, but in

1063
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:00,919
Speaker 1: the passenger seat of your own life. And so there's

1064
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,839
Speaker 1: like a mindset shift that needs to happen in order

1065
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: to make this possible. And if you think it can't

1066
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 1: be done, it's much easier for it to not actually happen.

1067
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:12,360
Speaker 1: But if you believe that it can and you're working

1068
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,360
Speaker 1: actively towards that end goal, you can do it. I

1069
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,440
Speaker 1: think the other thing that she said that really resonated

1070
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 1: with me was when she talked about creative substitution, and

1071
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:28,600
Speaker 1: I think that really does prevent a deprivation mindset, because yes,

1072
00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: like that perpetual push toward frugality, it can feel like

1073
00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:36,920
Speaker 1: a long slog and it can start to feel like

1074
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,319
Speaker 1: I'm not living the life of my dreams because gosh,

1075
00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 1: I'm cutting back in this area, in this area, in

1076
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,080
Speaker 1: this area. And if you can do some creative substitution,

1077
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:47,160
Speaker 1: not just at the grocery store, but when it comes

1078
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 1: to the activities you participate in, Like on date night

1079
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 1: last night, my wife and I went for a six

1080
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: mile walk like a hike together. It was like one

1081
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:59,680
Speaker 1: of the best We thoroughly enjoyed it. It was lovely outside.

1082
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: What is that that you can do a creative substitution

1083
00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:05,200
Speaker 1: where it's like, well, normally we go to our favorite

1084
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:08,480
Speaker 1: restaurant and we get nice cocktails and a great meal,

1085
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: and that's like fine and dandy and lovely on occasion.

1086
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: But if you really want to make the progress that

1087
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:18,239
Speaker 1: you want to see in your financial goals, especially if

1088
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:20,319
Speaker 1: you're making less money, I think it is going to

1089
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,240
Speaker 1: take some creative substitution and that is going to allow

1090
00:52:23,280 --> 00:52:26,759
Speaker 1: you to not feel as down about the things that

1091
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: you're giving up because you're doing something else instead of

1092
00:52:31,920 --> 00:52:34,479
Speaker 1: just giving up, instead of just cutting, you're finding something

1093
00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: else to replace it with. That is cost less money,

1094
00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:40,080
Speaker 1: but it still brings joy. And don't forget to write

1095
00:52:40,080 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: those goals down. I think that's really important. Something dreamed

1096
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: up in your head like yeah, we could do that,

1097
00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,680
Speaker 1: versus something that's actually written down and spoken out loud,

1098
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,520
Speaker 1: it can make a big difference in your ability to

1099
00:52:49,560 --> 00:52:52,720
Speaker 1: achieve it. So big thanks to Hope for joining me today.

1100
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:55,879
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this conversation and hope to see

1101
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,759
Speaker 1: you back here on Friday for a nice little Friday

1102
00:52:59,760 --> 00:53:01,800
Speaker 1: Flight episode with me and Matt. But that's gonna do

1103
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:04,439
Speaker 1: it for this one. Until next time, Best Friend Out,