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Speaker 1: Well, come to Spookkey Week, a week where we are

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Speaker 1: not really any spooky or honestly than the average things happening,

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Speaker 1: because everything happening is is terrifying and like ghosts and

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Speaker 1: ghoules are are a lot more fun. Anyway, hang up

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Speaker 1: in this podcast, don't listen, Go watch Herbert West reanimat

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Speaker 1: or have some fun. Um. But if you decide to

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Speaker 1: keep listening to podcasts for some reason, we have a

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Speaker 1: bunch of spooky content for you this week. How was that?

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Speaker 1: How was that introduction? Sophie? Oh bad? All right, Garrison,

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Speaker 1: get going? Do your think? Yeah? My my thing? So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're doing We're doing spooky spooky Week, which is very

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Speaker 1: excited about. But yeah, every everyone I've told about spooky Week,

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Speaker 1: they're like, oh, so it's just a regular week for

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Speaker 1: for the show. Yeah, pretty much, it's more fun. But

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Speaker 1: it is in a few ways. It is actually gonna

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Speaker 1: be more fun because the spooky spooky mind goddamn yes,

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Speaker 1: spookoky mind bedding tails actually do have do have some

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Speaker 1: more fun than just the solely depressing ones. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this was this was the first theme week that we

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Speaker 1: all agreed upon. This was the first themes like can

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Speaker 1: we do something around spooky nous near Halloween? And everybody

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Speaker 1: youtly said yes, yes, yes, this is the first theme week. Um,

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Speaker 1: we have we we have, we have been promising Nut

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Speaker 1: Week coming up. Eventually we're gonna tease about things that

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Speaker 1: made us nut or where we talk about the legumes

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Speaker 1: mostly legumes. Okay, that's fair, um, but anyway we should

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Speaker 1: we should have start off our first, our first spooky tale. Um,

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Speaker 1: so I'm going I'm going to tell a very spooky

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Speaker 1: tale of a of an entire French town going going

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Speaker 1: mad over the course of a single week. Oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: probably probably with the help of psychoactive drugs and a

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Speaker 1: certain three letter agency. You know what. I think we're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to do. Garrison some messages that you can't

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Speaker 1: be racist against the French. They're like the British or Americans.

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Speaker 1: I didn't get a new messages saying that your French

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Speaker 1: accent was very racist to the French. There is a

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Speaker 1: certain number. It's like the Germans. There's a certain number

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Speaker 1: of genocides after which people get to make fun of

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Speaker 1: your country and it's not racist. And that number is

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Speaker 1: let's say three. Honestly, the worst part of this story

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Speaker 1: is that we're probably doing critical support for France. I

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Speaker 1: mean in a way. Well, honestly, I'm gonna be a

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Speaker 1: kind of more critical support to the CIA by the

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Speaker 1: end of this one. Um. Yeah, that's that is the

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Speaker 1: most critical support can be. So anyway, our very spooky

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Speaker 1: tail begins in ninety one in a small, charming French

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Speaker 1: village called Pont Saint a Spray, which is how I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna say that. Yeah, there you go. Um. So, not

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Speaker 1: much happened in this little picturesque, little little town on

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Speaker 1: the south side of France. You know. Uh. On the

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Speaker 1: day we start, it's just like a regular summer day.

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Speaker 1: People are going about their routine, going to their jobs,

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Speaker 1: kids are playing in the street, enjoying some delicious freshly

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Speaker 1: baked bread. Um. But suddenly strange things begin happening. Um,

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Speaker 1: and I'm gonna start off with some of the more mild,

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Speaker 1: mild mild effects here. So on in August, first dozens,

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Speaker 1: then hundreds of people began first just complaining of nausea, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, and some people with some like stomach and

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Speaker 1: abdominable pain. They're coming up less often less often noted,

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Speaker 1: there was a few instances like vomiting and diarrhea. UM.

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Speaker 1: Only about thirty percent of people had diarrhea. That is

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Speaker 1: that is a weirder, weirder thing. Yeah, that is on

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Speaker 1: like a town wide basis three significant thirty Sorry, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a significant strain on the suit wag of the

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Speaker 1: people affected. It's just gonna be like a few hundred

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Speaker 1: versus I was taking drugs with a group of friends,

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Speaker 1: third of them had diarrhea. I would say, we might

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Speaker 1: need to go to a hospital that we have taken

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Speaker 1: someone that perhaps what we got was tainted. There is

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Speaker 1: there is. Yeah, well we'll we're talking about what actually

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Speaker 1: what the actual drugs being used here are going to be.

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Speaker 1: But uns were something where that's not an uncommon side effect.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, first first nausea, a little a little bit

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Speaker 1: of vomiting, stoma, pains, cramping, um. Hospitals began reporting people

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Speaker 1: experiencing alternating warm and cold waves for their body. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The British Medical Journal recalls abundant sweating and a disagreeable odor,

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Speaker 1: which I'm guessing the odor is just because there's all

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Speaker 1: those sweating people in the same cramped hospital room in

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Speaker 1: the summer. In the summer heats. Yeah, so anyway in

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Speaker 1: their French. So a lot of scargo sweats. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to get more messages saying that I have to stop.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he's going to do it more. By the way,

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Speaker 1: do we know that the diarrhea was the result of

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Speaker 1: whatever substance or maybe it's just the wine ships Again

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Speaker 1: we don't. Well, there's no way to tell. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: patients began complaining about weird pains and pressure around their neck,

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Speaker 1: which yeah, um. And one of the one of the

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Speaker 1: most reported symptoms was in insomnia, in some cases lasting

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Speaker 1: several days. Uh. Quoting the British Medical Journal, the first

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Speaker 1: symptoms appeared after a latent period of six to forty

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Speaker 1: eight hours the digestive disorders. They became worse with burning

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Speaker 1: sensations through the entire digestive tract. Some experienced sensations of

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Speaker 1: burning at the anus. A state of giddiness persisted. I mean,

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Speaker 1: who's not giddy when your anus is burning? Am I? Right?

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Speaker 1: I fear like like this is like this is like

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Speaker 1: the like the clear side that there's like some some

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Speaker 1: psychoactive job going on, because like your anus is burning

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Speaker 1: and yet your very you are born. Yeah, it's like

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Speaker 1: that sign from that what is that from a rejected

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Speaker 1: by what what? What's the cartoonist? Like my anus is bleeding,

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Speaker 1: but like you're down, you know, you're down for it. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're you're John Millenney impression. No no, no, it's it

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Speaker 1: wasn't a John Linney impression. So that's just your poisoned

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Speaker 1: millennial brain. Don Hertzfeld. Yeah great artist, Yeah, great artist.

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Speaker 1: H So these pale and limp patients still voting the

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Speaker 1: British Medical Journal, these pale and limp patients showed inconspicuous

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Speaker 1: trembling of the extremities, and they complained of disorders of

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Speaker 1: the visual accommodation and especially being unable to read. So

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Speaker 1: this this is this is the more mild. This is

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Speaker 1: the could So this is for many people affected, this

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Speaker 1: is where the symptoms stopped. After suffering for insomnia for

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Speaker 1: a while, with you know, mild disorders of the visual

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Speaker 1: accommodation um and you know and the stomach pains and

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Speaker 1: like weird like neck things, after they were able to sleep.

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Speaker 1: That was the sign of their recovery. Is like the

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Speaker 1: ability to sleep again. African insomnia war off but in

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Speaker 1: a in around fifty of the cases reported the effects

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Speaker 1: were much more intense. Um, I'm going to continue from

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Speaker 1: the from the medical journal first and then get into

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Speaker 1: some of the more colorful reporting around the incident. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Quoting the Medical journal again, Vivid visual hallucinations appeared, in

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Speaker 1: particular themes of visions of animals and of flames. All

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Speaker 1: of these visions were fleeting invariable in many of the patients.

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Speaker 1: They were followed by dreamy delirium. Yeah, that's that's about right.

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Speaker 1: That's actually pretty good description of like l S A

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Speaker 1: LSD those kind of like that. Movies always get it

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Speaker 1: wrong because you're not usually not like you're not seeing

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Speaker 1: some sort of like visual like cartoon world. It's it's

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Speaker 1: these kind of like fleeting impressions of visions and things

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Speaker 1: in the corner of your eyes. Yeah, it's a pretty

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Speaker 1: good especially on lower like it is unclear what exactly

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Speaker 1: they were on because then they definitely can be the

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Speaker 1: more cartoon lags. I mean, you can get full open

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Speaker 1: eyed hallucination, like especially the shogun chemicals will do that

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Speaker 1: that I don't get it so much with like LSD

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Speaker 1: L S A L say, if you want to shoot yourself,

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Speaker 1: that is that is some Hawaiian baby wood row seats

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Speaker 1: from home depot and have yourself a horrible right. So,

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Speaker 1: the delirium seemed to be systematized with animal hallucinations and

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Speaker 1: self accusation. It's weird, weird terms from them from accusations. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's I think I think they're trying to get at

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Speaker 1: ego death, but they don't have terms for it yet.

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Speaker 1: Do that or that, Like sometimes you're hallucinating it like

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Speaker 1: overcoming like guilt, like oh I did this terrible thing

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Speaker 1: or yeah yeah, yeah, everybody's angry at me or whatever,

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Speaker 1: like can continuing from the medical journal, self accusation, and

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Speaker 1: and it was sometimes mystical or macabre. In some cases,

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Speaker 1: terrifying visions were followed by fugus, which is an old

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Speaker 1: um for like fugues. It says, says fugues. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's like it's it's like it's like extreme it's

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Speaker 1: extreme disassociation. Yeah, yeah, you're kind of zombified a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and two and two patients threw themselves out the window. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The delirium was of a confusal kind, which could be

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Speaker 1: interpreted for some moments by a strong stimulation. Every attempt

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Speaker 1: at restraint increased the agitation. Well, yeah, that's it restraining.

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Speaker 1: I've had to restrain a number of people and it

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Speaker 1: does not calm anyone down, especially especially when you're tripping hard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this sounds like a real, real bad time. Not the

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Speaker 1: thing to do. In severe cases, muscular spasms appeared. The

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Speaker 1: duration of these periods of delirium was varied. They lasted

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Speaker 1: several hours, several hours and some patients and in others

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Speaker 1: they persisted overnight. So that and then here it's it's

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get a little bit darker and then we're

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Speaker 1: gonna have more fun. Um. We observed four fatal cases,

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Speaker 1: three men and one woman. Three of these people were

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Speaker 1: old and in bad health. One of the men was

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Speaker 1: only twenty five years old and had been in good

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Speaker 1: health previously. They died in a muscular spasm in a

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Speaker 1: state of cardiovascular collapse. I think this is probably mostly

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Speaker 1: due to how the doctors were handling these patients. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: you're your blood pressure want not can elevate when you're hallucinating.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I think it also has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with the way they were being handled. Yeah, you're right, Um,

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Speaker 1: the disorder has developed more quickly children but also left

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Speaker 1: them more quickly. An interesting feature some of the cases

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Speaker 1: was that the delirium it was the first sign to

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Speaker 1: be noted. So it depends people come up came up

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Speaker 1: on different ways, or some of them first had a

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Speaker 1: weird body feelings, some of them first started just seeing stuff. Um.

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Speaker 1: One other interesting tidbit that we're not going to spend

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Speaker 1: much time talking about, but like around two weeks after

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Speaker 1: this initial incident, some symptoms started to reappear, either through

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Speaker 1: like a secondary poison egg or it was like some

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Speaker 1: kind of like acid flashback. Yeah it must, it must

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Speaker 1: because I've done it, fuckload of ASCID. I've never had

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Speaker 1: a flashback. Um, I did at one point. I mean

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Speaker 1: I have like done some damage and so I have

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Speaker 1: permanent tracers. But it's not like, my guess is they

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Speaker 1: got I think the idea that there are like acid

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Speaker 1: flashbacks that are vivid hallucinations has been pretty heavily debunked.

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Speaker 1: My guesses they got redosed. Yeah, I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: might fight you. It's like it could be that it

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Speaker 1: was traumatic enough that like they're having they're dealing with

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Speaker 1: PTSD and kind of that that's what's happening. But don't know,

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Speaker 1: And I think I definitely have seen enough reports that

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Speaker 1: would see acid flashbacks definitely actually being a thing in

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Speaker 1: some cases, especially in the early days of studying these

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Speaker 1: types of drugs and like the sixties, like the CIA

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Speaker 1: reported a lot of stuff around acid flashbacks around the

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Speaker 1: people that we tortured. But I guess it's it's tide

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Speaker 1: to torture. That could just be PTSD. Stuff could be PTSD.

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Speaker 1: It's also, I mean, one thing you have to know,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know what kind of dose these people

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Speaker 1: were getting. With the CIA, with dose people, they were

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Speaker 1: sometimes giving people doses people do not take, like you

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Speaker 1: do not take that much, like hundreds or thousands or

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Speaker 1: millions of yeah, ridiculous irresponsible doses. Yeah. So now now

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Speaker 1: we're going to get to some of the some of

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Speaker 1: the more fun descriptions here, which we can actually kind

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Speaker 1: of like, based on our experiences, can actually kind of

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Speaker 1: see like what was actually going on in these people's heads. Um. So, basically,

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Speaker 1: we had at least dozens and dozens of people tripping

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Speaker 1: very very hard. Um. The local postman was doing his

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Speaker 1: rounds on his bicycle when he was suddenly overwhelmed by

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Speaker 1: nausea and wild hallucinations. Quoting him, it was terrible. I

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Speaker 1: had the sense, I had the sensation of shrinking and shrinking,

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Speaker 1: and the fire and the serpents coiling around by arms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that guy had some other stuff going on. Yeah, because

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Speaker 1: the very first acid trip was on a bicycle when

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Speaker 1: Heinrich Kaufman like made it and dosed himself. He started

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Speaker 1: coming up. I believe it was in Amsterdam, like riding

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Speaker 1: his bicycle, which is like, well, this is lovely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I've made something cool. Why was the postman riding a

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Speaker 1: bicycle to deliver packages? And because we have less fifties,

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Speaker 1: it's not there to France in four I mean that's

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry post So Yeah, the mailman fell off his

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Speaker 1: bike and was taken to the taking to a hospital

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Speaker 1: in a nearby town. He was putting a straight jacket,

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Speaker 1: and he shared a room with three teenagers who were

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Speaker 1: also tripping, and the teenagers were changed to their beds

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Speaker 1: to keep them under control. Yeah, that's that's how it

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Speaker 1: sounds horrible. Flash backs to this, to being chained to

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Speaker 1: a bed tripping. Yeah, some of my friends trying to

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Speaker 1: get out the window. They were thrashing, wildly, screaming, in

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Speaker 1: the sound of the metal beds and jumping up and down.

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Speaker 1: The noise was terrible. I would prefer I would prefer

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Speaker 1: to die then go through that again. Which this sounds

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Speaker 1: like like the worst acid trip you could go. That

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Speaker 1: sounds like about the worst way you could have a

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Speaker 1: trip go. It sounds awful. So back in the French town,

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Speaker 1: a little girl screamed as she was being chased by

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Speaker 1: man eating tigers. A woman sobbed about how her children

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Speaker 1: had been ground into sausages. Oh great and specific a

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Speaker 1: large men founded off terrific beasts by smashing its furniture

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Speaker 1: and using the wood as weapons. Good for you, buddy,

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00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,200
Speaker 1: Good for you. Husband and wife right around chasing each

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Speaker 1: other with nice again, probably something else going on there.

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Speaker 1: My guess is we're not just talking the acid and

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Speaker 1: that because I have again, been on acid a lot

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Speaker 1: around knives and other weapons. I've never chased someone. I've

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Speaker 1: never chased someone around with knives, like the couple who

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Speaker 1: was on the verge of a knife chick. I think,

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Speaker 1: I think, I think the important part here is that

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Speaker 1: like in this French town, like acid wasn't a thing yet,

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Speaker 1: like like like lucinogenic drugs, weren't a thing, right, even

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Speaker 1: like even like mushrooms weren't popular around this time. No

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Speaker 1: one knew what what the hell was going on. Like

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Speaker 1: they just think that they're just basically losing their minds,

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Speaker 1: like like there's there's no other explanation for what's happening

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Speaker 1: to them. And let's just say that the most shocking

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Speaker 1: thing that has come out so far as that when

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Speaker 1: Robert was on acid, he wasn't chasing people with knives.

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Speaker 1: That seems like it's honest, Like, depending on your acid trip,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to chase someone with a knife. Like,

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Speaker 1: it's not it's not the kind of we would we

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Speaker 1: would like during this, Yeah, we would. We would take

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Speaker 1: a bunch of drugs and grab my a K forty

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Speaker 1: seven and hike out into the woods and we would

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Speaker 1: shoot down a fir tree and we would drag it

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Speaker 1: back to a clearing and we would bury it standing up,

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Speaker 1: and we would drape it in pig intestines and put

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Speaker 1: a pig's heart on it. And when we cover it

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Speaker 1: in gasoline and light it with firecrackers and dance around

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Speaker 1: it like the pagans of old. But there was nothing

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Speaker 1: aggressive about No, you you you very rarely would want

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Speaker 1: to hurt somebody on acid, And my experience like you

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Speaker 1: generally generally are at least like way more compassionate in

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Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Um, But if you have no

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Speaker 1: idea what acid is and you're just you're in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen fifties and you're losing your mind and you're seeing

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Speaker 1: weird things that, Yeah, I can see how this would

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Speaker 1: maybe cause some other types of behavior. You just think

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Speaker 1: that because that is angry at you, like like like

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Speaker 1: it's like they're not they're not dosing themselves either, like

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Speaker 1: they're being dosed rights like they don't. It's very different

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Speaker 1: where like you're deciding to go with a trip versus

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Speaker 1: this is happening to you when you have no decision.

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00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,440
Speaker 1: I think for basically anyone in this position, the logical

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00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,200
Speaker 1: assum should be, oh, the devil has taken over our

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Speaker 1: town and our minds have we have been infested with

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Speaker 1: demons like that? What else are you going to assume?

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Speaker 1: You're not going to be like, Oh, this drug that's

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00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,400
Speaker 1: just barely been invented and that nobody really knows about

294
00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,200
Speaker 1: yet except for weird nerds. It must be some version

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00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,320
Speaker 1: of that that I've taken accidentally. No, you're going to

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Speaker 1: do in your blood. So one interesting tid. But before

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00:17:17,760 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: we before we go and break um, even some of

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Speaker 1: the local animals had been affected by whatever poisoned the town. Um.

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Speaker 1: There there was there was one dog in particular that

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Speaker 1: kept chewing on rocks until its teeth chipped away. I

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00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:35,000
Speaker 1: don't like this. And and ducks were behaving very odd. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's described that they were. They were walking around erect

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Speaker 1: and upright, like penguins in a line, and they're just

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Speaker 1: like weird, weird behavior from ducks so far that kind

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Speaker 1: of makes me want to dose our ducks scared. We're not.

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Speaker 1: We're not wasting acid on the ducks. I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of things you could give ducks. We're not.

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00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: We're not giving ducks asset. That's not about giving ducks drugs.

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Speaker 1: Is they're all monsters. That is true. They are monsters

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Speaker 1: and rapists, every one of them. Yeah, all the mail ducks.

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Speaker 1: So anyway, a reoccurring theme was that people were running

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Speaker 1: around wildly and being very fearful of like monstery animals

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Speaker 1: and encroaching flames. Um, it sounds like the ducks are

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Speaker 1: having a good time, though, doing their ministry of silly

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Speaker 1: walk shit, Like, I don't know what all these people

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Speaker 1: are bummed about. This is rad Okay. So when when

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00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:27,359
Speaker 1: you first said that, I heard dogs, and I was like,

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Speaker 1: that is the most terrible ducks. It's like duck steady,

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Speaker 1: like very upright, like penguins walking around in the line.

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Speaker 1: I think ducks might enjoy it. I think dogs are

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Speaker 1: a little too aware of what's going on. Dog. The

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00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 1: stone thing was about the dog, yeah, with the dog. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just don't know that the dogs enjoy because, like

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Speaker 1: I've seen dogs accidentally eat large amounts of pot and

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Speaker 1: whatnot and they get weird. They they they're they're pretty

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Speaker 1: scared every good time. They're pretty're pretty scared. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Do you know what is also very spooky ca Yeah,

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Speaker 1: capitalism and all of these spooky advertisements to sell things.

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00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,399
Speaker 1: Advertisements are also a form of mind control. Speaking of

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Speaker 1: the CIA in the fifties anyway, profoundly damaging. We are

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Speaker 1: back from the spooky advertising, yeah anyway. Um, So I

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Speaker 1: think another another reoccurring factor for why a lot of

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00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 1: these people have very similar types of experiences around like

334
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 1: snakes um, which we're talking about later, and like flames

335
00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:46,560
Speaker 1: is like with this many people tripping and no one

336
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:49,000
Speaker 1: knows what tripping is. I think it's really easy for

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Speaker 1: an idea or a fear to spread from one person

338
00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 1: to another while they're tripping. Um, with like this many people,

339
00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:57,520
Speaker 1: I think if someone says something, it's going to start

340
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 1: happening to someone else. And it's kind of kind of

341
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,679
Speaker 1: this like cascading effect where they're all developed these very

342
00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 1: similar fear is because it's almost like being spread like

343
00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 1: an infection. Um. So there was there was a one

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00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,960
Speaker 1: man convinced that red snakes were devouring his brain and

345
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,159
Speaker 1: he jumped out a window. Oh no, what did he

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Speaker 1: live for? This? He did live? Um, I'm not guessing

347
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,199
Speaker 1: a lot of these. It's it's like France and the fifties,

348
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 1: So I'm guessing most of these buildings are not super

349
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 1: they're not super high up. Now you're like falling a

350
00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,680
Speaker 1: foot or two. Although here we have another one. Another

351
00:20:29,760 --> 00:20:33,280
Speaker 1: mad reportedly left for a window, yelling, look everyone, I'm

352
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Speaker 1: a dragonfly. The men broke. The men broke both legs,

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00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,720
Speaker 1: but he stood up and continued running, looking rad king

354
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:54,160
Speaker 1: Sigma Stigma behavior Sigma. This is a new kind of man,

355
00:20:55,600 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: just drapped. Look, everyone, I have a dragonfly breaks legs,

356
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:05,639
Speaker 1: he keeps running. Based on the information you've provided us,

357
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: I can't say he's not a dragon. No, he is

358
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,439
Speaker 1: an absolute, absolute king. Good for I hope he had

359
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 1: a great life. Yeah. Another one saw his heart escape

360
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,600
Speaker 1: through his feet and beseeched the doctor to try to

361
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,840
Speaker 1: put it back into place. You don't want to have

362
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,959
Speaker 1: that happen. That doesn't sound fun. You want to keep

363
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,880
Speaker 1: that somewhere around the middle of your body. Someone sprinted

364
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:32,879
Speaker 1: down the lane, claiming that he was being chased by

365
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:38,119
Speaker 1: bandits with donkey ears. A nearby river, a man was

366
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: convinced that he was a circus tight rope walker and

367
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: attempted to balance his way across the cables of a

368
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:46,960
Speaker 1: suspension bridge. You know it doesn't say. The report does

369
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: not tell you. So, yeah, he's not in the death report.

370
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:57,600
Speaker 1: Yeah he's And therefore another another person did try to

371
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Speaker 1: die in the river. He tried to jump into the river,

372
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,560
Speaker 1: only to be saved by his friends. And he was screaming,

373
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Speaker 1: I am dead, I am dead, and my head is

374
00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,199
Speaker 1: made of copper, and I have snakes in my stomach

375
00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:13,840
Speaker 1: and they are burning me. It's such a weird description

376
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,120
Speaker 1: of like tripping and saying like my head is made

377
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,200
Speaker 1: of copper. I'm trying to think of like what was

378
00:22:18,280 --> 00:22:22,119
Speaker 1: going on? What like what what series of events did

379
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 1: did he spiral down in his brain to have that

380
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 1: sentence I did? I'm not quite sure. It's it's it's

381
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,480
Speaker 1: it's definitely. I can definitely see it happening. I just

382
00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: I just can. I'm trying to think, like we're exactly

383
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,360
Speaker 1: what would happen to get to that point. It's really

384
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,200
Speaker 1: real interesting. I think some of these are hard because again,

385
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: it's like these people just think literally think they're going

386
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: insane or that like this stuff is just actually happening

387
00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 1: to them. Like you were, like when when you're tripping

388
00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 1: on acid, you already kind of have the feeling that

389
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: there is moments where you feel like this is like

390
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 1: this is like never gonna end, even though even though

391
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: you know you know you're on acid. These people don't

392
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,639
Speaker 1: know that, right, Like these people don't have the reascernce

393
00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 1: like no, I took acid, I'm on a drug, this

394
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: is gonna be for eight hours. They think this is

395
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: gonna last forever, right Like they think this this is

396
00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:06,880
Speaker 1: just the world now, Like this is just one of those.

397
00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: Rubbert Anton Wilson, who is a thinker I enjoy a lot,

398
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: writes a lot about how to calm people down when

399
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: they've taken too much, and most of his advices around

400
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 1: talking about like, okay, well, how long ago did you

401
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:17,840
Speaker 1: take it? Hey, well that the good news is that

402
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:19,400
Speaker 1: this is going to end here. You know, it's only

403
00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:21,760
Speaker 1: gonna last this long, like you're you're through this point. Oh,

404
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:24,760
Speaker 1: this is the this is the second hour, freakies, and

405
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:26,920
Speaker 1: by the third hour you'll be fine again and enjoying it.

406
00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,399
Speaker 1: Like it's all about making keeping in people's minds like

407
00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 1: this is going to pass. So yeah, you're right, Like

408
00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: this is the fucking worst way to take drugs, alright.

409
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:40,480
Speaker 1: So local newspapers uh and also like in national newspapers

410
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: described described this as a among the stricken delirium rose

411
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,160
Speaker 1: patients thrash wildly on their beds, screaming that red flowers

412
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: were blossoming from their bodies, people throwing themselves some rooftops,

413
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:53,960
Speaker 1: men and women throwing their clothes off and running in

414
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:57,000
Speaker 1: the streets naked, and children complaining their stomachs were infested

415
00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 1: with coils and snakes, which I mean half of that

416
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 1: sounds like, yeah, that's like a normal good time just

417
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,600
Speaker 1: running around the streets naked on acid. Other I was like, yeah,

418
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: that that doesn't seem pleasant with coils and snakes in

419
00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:09,840
Speaker 1: your stomach, but also like flowers bossoming fun your body.

420
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: I can, I can, I can understand that kind of sensation. Um,

421
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 1: but like it definitely definitely wasn't all horrible and the

422
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 1: night like nightmares we we were. We already mentioned the

423
00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,480
Speaker 1: giddy people with burning anuses, um, but for like the

424
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: full and tripping folks. According to the New York Times,

425
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: there's reports of people like hearing heavenly choruses and seeing

426
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 1: you know, bright colors. The world look beautiful to them. Apparently,

427
00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 1: the head of the farming co op wrote hundreds of

428
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:42,080
Speaker 1: pages of like enlightened tripping poetry. That that guy must

429
00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: be sick as ship because knowing nothing, he starts tripping,

430
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,399
Speaker 1: not knowing he's tripping. It's just like timeing to make

431
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: some fucking art. You know what, this head state is

432
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,920
Speaker 1: good for writing some shit. He just went to his

433
00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: cabinets wrote poetry. That's fucking awesome. That's a guy. I'll

434
00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:04,360
Speaker 1: bet he handled just everything that life through it. Well,

435
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 1: like that says a lot about you when you're like, oh,

436
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:11,400
Speaker 1: demons have infiltrated my brain. Guess I'm gonna hang out

437
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 1: in my cabin and write some poems hundreds of pages. Wow,

438
00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 1: like I could. I could hardly write ship on acid.

439
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:27,240
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine trying to write poetry. I've done a

440
00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: lot of creative stuff on acid. Creative stuff. Yeah, I

441
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:32,199
Speaker 1: just feel like specifically, like reading and typing can can

442
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,359
Speaker 1: be hard at certain points. You know, if if you're

443
00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: like coming down that it can be easier, but really

444
00:25:37,320 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: good for like writing, It's good for ideas that you

445
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 1: later can flesh out into writing. But yeah, so unfortunately,

446
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, because this was you know, no one who

447
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:50,399
Speaker 1: was going on. Many people were taken to local asylums

448
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,720
Speaker 1: and straight jackets and tied onto beds, making things undoubtedly

449
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:56,840
Speaker 1: worse for people tripping. It's one of those things I

450
00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: can't even be angry at them because like they don't

451
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:00,560
Speaker 1: know what's going you know, like you have no idea

452
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: what's going on, the whole. Like every attemptant restraint increased

453
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: the agitation line. It's like horrifying from the concept of

454
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,480
Speaker 1: like you're tripping, you you, you do, you don't know

455
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:11,920
Speaker 1: what's going on, and people are tying you down to beds,

456
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,520
Speaker 1: making you feel like you're even more stuck in this

457
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: permanent seat of delirium. It's just, it's just it is

458
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:20,400
Speaker 1: the worst nightmare. Yeah, this is horrible. Yea. The mayor

459
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:22,720
Speaker 1: of the town said, like, I've seen healthy men and

460
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:25,640
Speaker 1: women suddenly become terrorized, ripping in their bed sheets, hiding

461
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:29,160
Speaker 1: themselves beneath their blankets to escape their hallucinations. So yeah,

462
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: it's it's if you, if you, if you don't know

463
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: what's going on, pretty pretty pretty scary, except for the

464
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 1: poetry guy. Good for him, Yeah, good for him. Um. Yeah.

465
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: So by by the time the effects had subsided for

466
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: everyone affected, which is around like a few days after

467
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: the initial reported like nausea, like you know, not it

468
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:50,080
Speaker 1: didn't affect everyone at the same time. You know, some

469
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: people got dosed later on. It's it's it's unclear what

470
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: exactly because it's the fifties, we didn't have a great

471
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 1: idea of the exact timeline of events of when the

472
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: first effects were felt and like how all the stuff

473
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:05,160
Speaker 1: was spaced out. But this whole instant Arrassed lasted around

474
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: like a few days for like everyone everyone totaled. UM.

475
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: It was supported that anywhere between like three hundred and

476
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: five hundred people had felt the effects. UM, you know,

477
00:27:14,640 --> 00:27:17,920
Speaker 1: around fifty feeling very very extreme like open eye like

478
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: hallucinations of objects that aren't even there, like like very

479
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:23,800
Speaker 1: extreme hallucinations. UM. And and four people did die in

480
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,920
Speaker 1: connection to the poisoning. UM at least where people died.

481
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: It's again it's unclear for exact numbers for a lot

482
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: of this stuff. UM. An investigation into the sudden outbreak

483
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 1: of the madness was probably underway. Town officials wanted to

484
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: get to the bottom of this as quickly as possible. Yeah,

485
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: do you want to figure out what was happening? Yea. UM.

486
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:49,200
Speaker 1: And the blame fell onto a single batch of bread

487
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:55,280
Speaker 1: what so among the common denominator among those affected that

488
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 1: they all allegedly consumed bread from one specific baker. Um.

489
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,359
Speaker 1: He he was accused of using er got contaminated rye flower,

490
00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,800
Speaker 1: and he was arrested and a temporary imprisoned. UM. Also,

491
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: a nearby miller that he got the flower from was

492
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,480
Speaker 1: also arrested and given some of the blame. UM. The

493
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: funny part is that around this time, the French government

494
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: had a very top down grain distribution system that originally

495
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 1: controlled everything about where the grains were milled, where they

496
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:26,920
Speaker 1: were sent, and what bakers could use which flower, so

497
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: bakers had no choice and what type of flower to

498
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:30,959
Speaker 1: use or what kind of a grain they could use

499
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:34,879
Speaker 1: in baking. It was all decided by other people. Bread

500
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,360
Speaker 1: is like real big deal and it's pretty pretty pretty important. Yeah,

501
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: for the record, just like air got poisoning. There are

502
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 1: a lot of cases of like different like dancing manias

503
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: and whatnot in like the medieval in medieval Europe, or

504
00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: like whole towns will be well, everyone will start like

505
00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 1: dancing or like hallucinating, and you know they always came

506
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: down as like these people assumed apocryphal of stories about

507
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,520
Speaker 1: like demon possessions or whatnot. And now a lot of

508
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 1: the sup and he's like, oh yeah, some ergod gotten. No,

509
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: yeah it was, it was. It was just tripping or poisoning.

510
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: It seems like one of the rougher trips to go on.

511
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,240
Speaker 1: It's not super clean. It's no. I mean I've done

512
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: l s A, which I think is similar and similar

513
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 1: to ergotten. They're tripp to means that are like really rough,

514
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: and it's I would not don't don't do l s A.

515
00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: No Hawaiian baby wood roase seeds. For if you're going

516
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 1: to take l s A, then actually like synthesizing, which

517
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: is a felon um. But you can just buy Hawaiian

518
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 1: baby wood roase seeds and eat them and you will

519
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: have maybe the worst trip of your life. Great advice

520
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: from the from the pod um. So yeah, on on

521
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 1: on on the on the On the rye and ergot topic,

522
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,200
Speaker 1: the past growing season was especially wet and ergot fun

523
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: guy did grow across the country's rye fields. Um, but

524
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: the amount of ergot on the rye and the amount

525
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,960
Speaker 1: of rye used in baking was thought to not being

526
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 1: enough to induce any any type of poisoning. UM. In fact,

527
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:04,840
Speaker 1: that the last time or like or got poisoning had

528
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,719
Speaker 1: struck France was back in was back in eighteen sixteen,

529
00:30:08,760 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: so almost like a century and a half before this incident.

530
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 1: And there was a century if it's the fifties right,

531
00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 1: litt less than a century no, so the last instant

532
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: was eighteen sixteen. This was no, no, like a century

533
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 1: and a half ago, um, and no other towns anything,

534
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: and no other part of France was affected by anything

535
00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: similar to this. Um. So the ur got thing is

536
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: kind of iffy um it. But the explanation was the

537
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 1: only thing that doctors investigators could come to would do,

538
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:43,400
Speaker 1: like you know, the their their limited knowledge around brain

539
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: altering substances, and just pressure from town officials to get

540
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: to the bottom of this so that they had something

541
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 1: to blame and people could move on. Um. But you know,

542
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: as a result, not much evidence to really backs up

543
00:30:53,560 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: there backs up there got claim, and a lot of

544
00:30:56,360 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: experts today kind of deemon bunk, um it doesn't there's it,

545
00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: and there's a bunch of like, um, there's this thing

546
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 1: hi ke on that the Greeks would take that was

547
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,120
Speaker 1: like this recollucinatory thing that they think it was because

548
00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,920
Speaker 1: they were putting grain and wine and it might have

549
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: been air got poisoned, but also like people enjoyed it.

550
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,320
Speaker 1: And so there's a lot of debate over whether or

551
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,920
Speaker 1: not it could have been ergot. But I don't know, Um,

552
00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't know what else is There are other other

553
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 1: theories about what it might Boy is it the CIA

554
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: CIA garrison? Where could they get to it? So, yeah,

555
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: it doesn't really make much sense that the high amounts

556
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 1: of ergot rye would only be in one batch of

557
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 1: grain used in a single batch of bread from just

558
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,960
Speaker 1: one bakery and one small town, doesn't doesn't really make sense. Um.

559
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,920
Speaker 1: Other explanations um that people have come to includes like

560
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: mercury poisoning and overuse of other fungicides. These have been

561
00:31:46,280 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: mostly disproven. Yeah, that doesn't seem like mercury poisoning. No,

562
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: but there is a guy who likes to drink some mercury,

563
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:57,719
Speaker 1: you know, boy on. So yeah, So there's a lot

564
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: of other theories around, like fungicides being used, but those

565
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: have been kind of disproved by some people, but others

566
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 1: still a point to them as possible explanations. But but

567
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: there is one other theory that we will focus on

568
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: that features two of my favorite things, LSD and the

569
00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties CIA because if you're gonna pick a c

570
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: i A, they had the most fun, they had the

571
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,080
Speaker 1: most fun, right like you know who else has a

572
00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,880
Speaker 1: lot of fun? Garrison who is also the nineteen fifties

573
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: c i A whoms our sponsors, Oh really to happen

574
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: here is sponsored only by the fifties c i A.

575
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 1: Only the one from the fifties. Yeah, when you order

576
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,920
Speaker 1: any of our product products, they will come to your

577
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 1: house and inject you with seven thousand hits of LSD.

578
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: Hey three, Hey, that is that sounds like a great deal. Honestly,

579
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: you're saving a lot of money. You are saying that

580
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: that is a lot of free a lot of acid

581
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:55,320
Speaker 1: for the amount of money you're spending. You won't do

582
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: more acid, that's for sure. You're that that's acid for life.

583
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:01,360
Speaker 1: You want do it again? Yeah, you might, you probably

584
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: probably you won't have to do it, you won't. You

585
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: want to do any expenses ever again. Yeah, you'll survive.

586
00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: You'll just be a very different person by the end

587
00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,480
Speaker 1: of the Yeah. You you won't survive. Your body with

588
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: someone else will wake up. So, speaking of waking up,

589
00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: here is a products so nifties c I a UM

590
00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 1: Wild Time. In two USand nine, Hank P. Albarelli, as

591
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 1: an an American writer and journalist, released a book called

592
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 1: A Terrible Mistake, which focuses on the suspicious death of

593
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 1: a CIA scientist named Frank Olson, who worked on the

594
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: CIA mind control experiments during the late forties and early fifties.

595
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: While researching the book, Albarelli claims to have come across

596
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:57,120
Speaker 1: a number of old CIA and White House documents referencing

597
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,120
Speaker 1: the pont St De Sprite incident, and he claims at

598
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,280
Speaker 1: the village was the target of a CIA experiment on

599
00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,160
Speaker 1: the mass effects of LSD, and that around the time

600
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,120
Speaker 1: that Frank Olsen wanted to sever his ties with the

601
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:10,440
Speaker 1: Army and CIA, Frank started talking about his participation in

602
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,879
Speaker 1: the experiment, which may have led to the government off

603
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 1: in Olsen. So, I know that is a lot and

604
00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:18,080
Speaker 1: it is slightly more than just a speculation. We're going

605
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 1: to get into the evidence here shortly, UM. But by

606
00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: now it's pretty well known that throughout theuthorities fifties and sixties,

607
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: both the U. S. Army and the CIA tried to

608
00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: use hallucinogetic hallucinogenic drugs such as LSD as both an

609
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 1: offensive weapon and as a way to make like psychic

610
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: super soldiers. The programs like MK Ultra and Knaomi, Project Bluebird,

611
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: Project Artichoke, UM, lots of lots of these things were

612
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:43,880
Speaker 1: trying to find different ways of using LSD for like

613
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: offensive and defensive means. Um. Some of the interest was

614
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: promoted by it was was prompted by reports of the

615
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 1: Soviet Union doing experiments with drugs around the same time.

616
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:55,680
Speaker 1: Also stuff around like you know, hy like like like

617
00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: psychic powers and hypnosis. This was very popular on this

618
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:04,120
Speaker 1: time for for lots of different intelligence agencies. UM. But

619
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: so albare Eli uncovered report from nineteen nine by the

620
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,920
Speaker 1: director of the Edwood Arsenal which many which which was

621
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,800
Speaker 1: where many US government LST experiments were carried out. And

622
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:18,800
Speaker 1: this report stated that the army should do everything, everything

623
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,839
Speaker 1: is posted, everything, everything possible to launch so called field

624
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 1: experiments using this drug. And later in his to us

625
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 1: A nine book, Albrely claims that he found references to

626
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 1: a government document with the label rep STU SPRI and

627
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:37,400
Speaker 1: f Olsen Files s O SPAN slash France Operation File

628
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,680
Speaker 1: inclusive Olsen Intel Files. Hand Carrie to Bellan tell him

629
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,360
Speaker 1: to see to it that these are buried. Um, this

630
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,440
Speaker 1: document does exist like we we we like we we

631
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: we we we do have this label on on this document. Um.

632
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 1: But like the actual contents of documents are are gone.

633
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: But this is this is this is this is just

634
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: a label that is being referenced as title boy. So

635
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:04,560
Speaker 1: the document label references Frank Olson and David Bellan. So

636
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: Belln was the executive director of the Rockefeller Commission, created

637
00:36:07,680 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 1: by the White House in the mid seventies to investigate

638
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: abuses carried out worldwide by the Central Intelligence Agency. So

639
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:20,200
Speaker 1: Alberrey believes that the that the French town LSD incident um,

640
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 1: which is like the Pont saintis Breed which is the

641
00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,040
Speaker 1: name of the town, and the Ethelson files mentioned in

642
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,240
Speaker 1: the document, would definitely show that if the document hadn't

643
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 1: been buried as it was said in the in the

644
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: label the CIA, it would show that the CIA was

645
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,600
Speaker 1: experimenting on the townspeople by dosing them with what he

646
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 1: thinks was lsd UM. Now, there is also a bit

647
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: more to it than that um using foyas he got

648
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,600
Speaker 1: ahold of another CIA document, a two page report from

649
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: my team fifty four detailing a conversation between a CIA

650
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,800
Speaker 1: agent and a representative of the San DAWs Chemical Company.

651
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: So this the sand DAWs base was the place where

652
00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: Albert Hoffman invented LSD in night um and it was

653
00:36:58,719 --> 00:37:00,920
Speaker 1: it was it was only a few hundred kilometers away

654
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 1: from Point St. A Spree, the town where this happened.

655
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:08,280
Speaker 1: So the chemical company was actually pretty pretty close relatively

656
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,440
Speaker 1: to like Europe. Um and it was also the only

657
00:37:11,480 --> 00:37:13,560
Speaker 1: place where LSD was being made at the time. And

658
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: they were providing both the Army and the CIA with

659
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of acid. But you mean

660
00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:20,440
Speaker 1: they're also giving it like, they were also giving it

661
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: to universities. They gave lots to Timothy Laria. Initially. They

662
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: were they were, they were, they were giving out to

663
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,719
Speaker 1: a lot of different universities and people, but including the

664
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 1: US government. So the CIA. The CIA agent wrote um

665
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: in this report that was like he was detailing a

666
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,240
Speaker 1: dinner he had with this representative of the chemical company,

667
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: and he reported that after having several drinks, the scientists

668
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: started talking about the pomp Sat desprite incident. The send

669
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,960
Speaker 1: off official burned out the pomp sat a spirit secret

670
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:56,760
Speaker 1: was that it was not the bread at all. Continued

671
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 1: to send off official for weeks. The French tied up

672
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: laboratories with analysis of the bread. It was not the

673
00:38:02,520 --> 00:38:06,600
Speaker 1: grain ergot, It was a diethyl laminate. Sorry, it's it's

674
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: the last part of the LSD. Yeah, the die ethyl

675
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 1: lemonide like compound. So yeah, surgic diethyl acid is what

676
00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 1: LSD stands for so yeah, he the sideist said that

677
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,160
Speaker 1: it was it was like it was like basically an

678
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:25,800
Speaker 1: LSD like compound. Um. So that's that was the that

679
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 1: was reported detail like a dinner that a CIA agent

680
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: had with this scientist, um, and that document was uncovered

681
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 1: and that was it was from like the fifties. Now

682
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 1: this this, this next part has a little bit less

683
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,719
Speaker 1: proof to it because there's no documents backing this up.

684
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: But l Brelli also claims that Dirk is diggig too forward.

685
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 1: CIA researchers reached out to him and revealed that revealed

686
00:38:48,080 --> 00:38:50,719
Speaker 1: some details of some possible details of the method of

687
00:38:50,760 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 1: the poisoning. They told him that the village was subjected

688
00:38:53,320 --> 00:39:03,759
Speaker 1: to an air blitz of pulverized LSD. I'm sorry, that's

689
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: fucking based so to force taking the substance through the air.

690
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,719
Speaker 1: According to the researchers, this manner of of this manner

691
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 1: of distribution proved mostly unsuccessful, um, forcing the CIA to

692
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 1: move onto phase two, which was contaminating local food. So

693
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 1: apparently the if the if, if the air blitz was

694
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,720
Speaker 1: a thing, it didn't work super well. Um. Although actually

695
00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: about to have Sophie Bias a plane, we will talk

696
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:38,319
Speaker 1: about this later. But um, the CIA did do more

697
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: air blitzing um of of acid in New York City.

698
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,600
Speaker 1: Actually they would ride around in cars um in like

699
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 1: poorer and poorer more like multicultural areas, UM shooting LSD

700
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:52,000
Speaker 1: out of the back of the car to see what

701
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:54,759
Speaker 1: would happen to, I mean, take out the racism. And

702
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 1: that really is a dream job, just driving around cities

703
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 1: air dosing people with acid. It random smoking cigarettes probably.

704
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,200
Speaker 1: So with the conclusion drawn that it was one of

705
00:40:07,239 --> 00:40:10,239
Speaker 1: the town's bakeries being the source of the poisoning, Alberrel

706
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: says it was possible that LSD was put in or

707
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: onto the bread. Um. So yeah. And uh also lots

708
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,560
Speaker 1: of the scientists, lots of the scientists dispatched to investigate

709
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: the poisoning after it took place where actually from the

710
00:40:25,800 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 1: Sandaws Chemical company. Um. They studied the situation for like

711
00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:31,360
Speaker 1: two or three weeks UM and gave the explanation that

712
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:33,759
Speaker 1: would later be kind of disproven, uh, that it was

713
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:36,120
Speaker 1: got poisoning, which they they told the town officials and

714
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: the British medical journal. Um what what, what no one

715
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:40,880
Speaker 1: knew at the time was that one the existence of

716
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: LSD in the first place. Um. And two that San

717
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: DAWs was the company making it and giving these drugs

718
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:49,560
Speaker 1: to the U. S. Army and to the CIA. UM.

719
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: And apparently apparently Albert Hoffman himself went to the town

720
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:59,160
Speaker 1: to investigate this incident. Um. So yeah, one last thing

721
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 1: on like the physical evidence side of things. Um. Albarelli

722
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: also found an undated White House document that appeared to

723
00:41:05,440 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: be part of a larger file that had been sent

724
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 1: to members of the Rockefeller Commission, containing the names of

725
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,880
Speaker 1: two French nationals who had been secretly employed by the

726
00:41:12,960 --> 00:41:16,879
Speaker 1: CIA and made direct references to the quote pont Saint

727
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: Esprit incident um. Also it was linked the document linked

728
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,840
Speaker 1: former CIA biological warfare expert and the chief of the

729
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: Fort Derek's Special Operations Division. So those are all places

730
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 1: that they were experiencing with this similar kind of thing. Um.

731
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:33,759
Speaker 1: We we we have mentioned the Rockefeller Commission a few

732
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,480
Speaker 1: times now, for remember the names uh, Frank Olsen, the

733
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 1: guy one of the CIA researchers on Lst. And David

734
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:42,200
Speaker 1: Bellan where they were they were They were on the

735
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: label of that missing document. So but Bellin was the

736
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: executive director of the White House Commission to investigate the

737
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: CIA's abuses and crimes, which was called the Rockefeller Commission.

738
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: It was formed by President Ford in nineteen seventy five

739
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: to investigate abuses and other activities by the CIA and

740
00:41:59,560 --> 00:42:02,799
Speaker 1: a few other intelligence agencies that were operating within the States. Um.

741
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: So the Rockefeller Commission revealed not only like, the reason

742
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,200
Speaker 1: why we know but m KOTRA was because the Rockefeller Commission,

743
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: this is this is how we know this was a thing. Um.

744
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 1: So it not only revealed toff about like programs around

745
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: m KAULTRA, but also revealed the details of the CIA

746
00:42:18,280 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 1: dosing their own scientist Frank Olsen with LSD and possibly

747
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: killing him. Um. There's also like, there's like a Netflix

748
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: series about this called Woodword, which I haven't I haven't

749
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 1: actually watched yet, so I don't know how good or

750
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:31,440
Speaker 1: accurate it is. But they did, they did make a

751
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:34,080
Speaker 1: series a few years ago about the death of Frank Olsen. Um,

752
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 1: and all of the weirds get yourself surrounding both his

753
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: job and and and and and his death. Um, we

754
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 1: do love the CIA, folks. So the the Commission also

755
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:49,240
Speaker 1: concluded that the head of the CIA's LSD program, doctor

756
00:42:49,440 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: Sydney ghost leap destroyed all of the drug programs records

757
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy three to hide the details of possibly

758
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: illegal actions, and he was personally involved in the torture

759
00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: of FRANKL. Wilson Um. Twenty years after Mr Olson's death

760
00:43:03,040 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 1: and ten years after the elistic experiments were halted, a

761
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: doctor Gotlieb ordered the destruction of all the records of

762
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:10,920
Speaker 1: the program, including a total of one hundred and fifty

763
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,880
Speaker 1: two separate files. This came shortly after other reports that

764
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,600
Speaker 1: that that records were being destroyed by Richard Helms, that

765
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 1: the then Director of Central Intelligence. So it's undoubitbly true

766
00:43:23,719 --> 00:43:25,919
Speaker 1: that the CIA was up to up to some ship

767
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:30,719
Speaker 1: involving LSD around around the exact time period of this

768
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: French Town incident. It's certainly not like you're not coming

769
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: out of nowhere suggesting the CIA may have dosed all

770
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: these people, but they set it to a bunch of folks.

771
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,480
Speaker 1: If they didn't do it here, they've done similar ship

772
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:44,840
Speaker 1: And it's it's also it's also worst mentioning at this

773
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:48,480
Speaker 1: point that like this is like the point where the

774
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: CIA is also running this like enormous heroin network out

775
00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:54,400
Speaker 1: of France. As like if they basically basically have this

776
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 1: whole they have this deal with the French where they're like, okay,

777
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,640
Speaker 1: so the French mob can like basically move all the

778
00:43:59,680 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: heroin they want and exchange they'll like stop the communists

779
00:44:02,400 --> 00:44:04,640
Speaker 1: and taking control of the point of marseilla Is. And

780
00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 1: so this is this is all also going on like

781
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,160
Speaker 1: at the same time that they're doing the LSD stuff.

782
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: It's great. Yeah, So there's there's some historians that think

783
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: the LSD theory does not hold enough water. Um. Stephen Kaplan,

784
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: it's a US historian specializing in the French food history

785
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: and the author of the two book Cursed Bread, which

786
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: follows this incident. Um. He says that he is I

787
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,160
Speaker 1: have numerous objections to this poultry evidence that this that

788
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: this against the CIA. First of all, it's clinically incoherent.

789
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:33,799
Speaker 1: LSD takes effects in just a few hours, whereas the inhabitants,

790
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,839
Speaker 1: where the inhabitants showed symptoms only after thirty six hours

791
00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 1: or more. For the more, LSD does not cause that

792
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 1: the digestive elements or the vegetative effects described by the townspeople. Um.

793
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: And so to both those claims, I say they're not

794
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 1: necessarily true. Um, it's it's it's unclear how soon the

795
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,680
Speaker 1: delirious effects took place for some people. They were they

796
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: forced effect felt Um. So the whole thing about like

797
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,839
Speaker 1: the effects only taking effect after thirty six hours, that's

798
00:44:59,840 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 1: not that's not necessarily true. Um. And Also LSD can

799
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: definitely have nauseating or digestive effects. Yeah, absolutely, so that's

800
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: that's that's not that's yeah, and and but but like

801
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: there were other types of symptoms that are not common

802
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,520
Speaker 1: for what we think of as like modern LST. Again,

803
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: this is the nineties, and we don't know what they

804
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 1: were actually on it did It's maybe not. It may

805
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 1: not be what we think of as like LSD. Now

806
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: it could be slightly that you know that this is

807
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,880
Speaker 1: a whole class of psychoactive drugs that's unclear what they

808
00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,399
Speaker 1: were all actually being dosed with. Yeah, who the funk

809
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:33,080
Speaker 1: knows what they were being given and who the funk

810
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 1: knows what the actual like dose amount was. Yeah, we

811
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: no no idea. It's also you know, I think it's

812
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: Leary was the origin of the phrase that like the

813
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: things that determine what happens on a trip or set

814
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 1: setting in dose, So your mindset where you take it

815
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 1: and who you take it around, and the dose and

816
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,600
Speaker 1: the fact that these are somewhat unique symptoms could be

817
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: to the fact that like, other people taking asset have

818
00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 1: never taken it this way, and this without knowing what

819
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: asseid is like. So Kaplan's other objections revolve around like

820
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: the delivery system. He says, it's absurd this idea of

821
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: transmitting a very toxic drug by putting by putting it

822
00:46:09,600 --> 00:46:11,520
Speaker 1: in the bread as for pulver as to get for

823
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 1: ingestion through the air. That technology wasn't even possible at

824
00:46:14,239 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: the time. Most compelling lee why would they choose the

825
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 1: town of pont Saint a Spree to conduct these tests.

826
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: It was half destroyed by the U. S. Army during

827
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: fighting with the Germans in the Second World War. It

828
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 1: makes no sense. And and to that, I say, that

829
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: makes it the perfect town for the CIA to funk

830
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: with me. Yeah, they generally would choose to dose someone

831
00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 1: with acid because it sounded funny, Like I think the

832
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:41,200
Speaker 1: fact that this town was already kind of like only

833
00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:43,479
Speaker 1: half inhabited and half destroyed by the by the Second

834
00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: World War, that makes it the perfect town to funk

835
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,320
Speaker 1: with like. And also they Also, the CIA and the

836
00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:51,279
Speaker 1: government very much did have the means to try to

837
00:46:51,360 --> 00:46:54,040
Speaker 1: distribute stuff via the air, because we can see other

838
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,359
Speaker 1: we can see other documents around the time of them

839
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: doing this too, specific areas of of New York City.

840
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:01,880
Speaker 1: They also tried to poison the entire New York Subway

841
00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 1: with LSD in the fifties, but that was shut down

842
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: by higher ups in in the Central Intelligence. Unly, God

843
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,399
Speaker 1: what a time that would have been. But but cap

844
00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:15,719
Speaker 1: But but Caplan isn't sure or Got responsible either. Um.

845
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 1: He says that or in comambination would not have worked

846
00:47:19,040 --> 00:47:20,759
Speaker 1: because it doesn't make sense that only one sack of

847
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: grain would have been affected. Um. And he says if

848
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,840
Speaker 1: it was or got the the effects would have been

849
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: way more widespread. He rules out LSD in the grounds

850
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,520
Speaker 1: and the symptoms of people suffered, although similar don't quite

851
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: fit what we modernly think of the drug. Also, I

852
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: don't I don't think Caplin's ever taken LSD, so I

853
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,239
Speaker 1: don't think talking about I think he's right about it

854
00:47:38,360 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 1: probably not being air got. But I don't think he

855
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 1: knows much. Yeah, he all. He also he also he

856
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:45,520
Speaker 1: also points out that LSD probably wouldn't have survived the

857
00:47:45,520 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 1: fierce temperatures of the baker's oven, although Albarelli counters that

858
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:50,760
Speaker 1: it could have been that LSD could have been added

859
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,120
Speaker 1: after the fact to the surface of the breach. Yah,

860
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: you could just drop it on. You could just drop

861
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:56,759
Speaker 1: it on with like with like liquid blodders, which also

862
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 1: explain how the effects were so different from person to person,

863
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 1: because one person maybe having a whole drop of LSD,

864
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: where somebody maybe only have like a tiny little like

865
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: you know, spec of like speck of like like moist liquid.

866
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 1: So I can explain some things, but you know, this

867
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,080
Speaker 1: is still pretty much a mystery. You know, it's very clear,

868
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 1: it's very much, very well could have been some kind

869
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 1: of hidden LSD c I a experiment UM or the

870
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: CIA could have just been, you know, interested in studying

871
00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:25,279
Speaker 1: what happened in the town, since they were also doing

872
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,120
Speaker 1: studies into psychoactives substances at the time. UM. It could

873
00:48:29,160 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 1: be either or UM. And that's where its spooky, because

874
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:36,600
Speaker 1: you'll never know. So, yes, that is that, that is

875
00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,759
Speaker 1: the spooky incident of a French town basically thinking that

876
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,600
Speaker 1: they lost their minds and then you know they do.

877
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: We it is a little funny. It is definitely a

878
00:48:49,160 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: little funny. Um it's it is a great example of

879
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,640
Speaker 1: like the worst way to trip. Yeah that that's that's

880
00:48:56,640 --> 00:49:00,360
Speaker 1: pretty high up there. Um anyway, critical support to the

881
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,080
Speaker 1: CIA for josing random people with acid. Always one of

882
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: my favorite sets of stories. You love to see it,

883
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:11,359
Speaker 1: so yeah, tune tune in, tune in tomorrow for more spooky,

884
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 1: spooky story. And you can follow the spooky social media

885
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:23,319
Speaker 1: that poisons your brain at com up in here pod

886
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: and cool Zone Media which yes, Twitter will poison your brain.

887
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: That is just as spooky, um more spooky, way worse

888
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:32,920
Speaker 1: for your brain than surprise c I a acid to

889
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,399
Speaker 1: be honest, the acid wears off