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Speaker 1: Pushkin. When we experience negative emotions, things like guilt or

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Speaker 1: sadness or anger, it can feel pretty intense, almost like

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Speaker 1: navigating a violent storm at sea. We might feel buffeted

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Speaker 1: and disoriented, or even a little sick to our stomachs.

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Speaker 1: At times like that, staying on an even emotional course

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Speaker 1: can feel impossible, like we'll never reach the safety of

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Speaker 1: dry land again. I've chosen this nautical analogy for a reason.

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Speaker 1: As I began reading more about the science of negative

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Speaker 1: emotions for this special season, I learned more about the

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Speaker 1: excellent work of Harvard Medical School psychologist Susan David. In

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Speaker 1: her book, Susan argues that negative feelings are like the

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Speaker 1: bright glow of a lighthouse in a storm. To become

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Speaker 1: a wise emotional seafarer, we need to heed the warning

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Speaker 1: of all the hidden rocks ahead. If we ignore the

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Speaker 1: light completely or venture too far out, we might get trapped.

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Speaker 1: The problem is that we tend not to listen to

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Speaker 1: the message our yucky feelings are sending, and that means

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Speaker 1: we sometimes find ourselves dashed on the emotional rocks. Susan's

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Speaker 1: interest in thinking more carefully about negative emotions began early

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Speaker 1: in life. It was born of both family tragedy and

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Speaker 1: the grim politics of her homeland. A lot of my

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Speaker 1: work is born not in the halls of Harvard or Yale, but,

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Speaker 1: like so many of us, in the messy, tender business

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Speaker 1: of life. So I grew up in the white suburbs

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Speaker 1: as a white child in Napartit, South Africa, and it

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Speaker 1: was very much a country and community that was committed

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Speaker 1: to not seeing and to denial. And so from a

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Speaker 1: very early age I actually became interested in this thread

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Speaker 1: that I think really runs through our work, which is

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Speaker 1: seeing versus not seeing, particularly when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: emotional world, and whether we see ourselves impacts and how

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Speaker 1: it impacts on our capacity to be wholehearted humans. And

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Speaker 1: so really that's the thread of so much at my work.

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Speaker 1: And then when I was around fifteen years old, my father,

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Speaker 1: who was forty two, was diagnosed with terminal cancer, and

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Speaker 1: I remember my mother telling me to go and say

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Speaker 1: goodbye to him. He was dying in our home, and

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Speaker 1: I went to his room. I opened the door. It

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Speaker 1: was just before I head it off for school. It

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Speaker 1: was on a Friday, and my dad was lying in

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Speaker 1: bed and his eyes were closed, and I just remember

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Speaker 1: this feeling that even though he couldn't see me, that

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Speaker 1: he could he knew me. I'd always felt seen in

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Speaker 1: his presence. And then also overlayered on that was this

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Speaker 1: experience that I had after my father's death, which was

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Speaker 1: everyone telling me to just be strong, smiling, and I

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Speaker 1: am a fifteen year old and I become the master

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Speaker 1: of being okay. You know, I don't drop a single grade.

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Speaker 1: People ask me harm doing it in a world that

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Speaker 1: seems to value relentious positivity as a marker of so

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Speaker 1: called strength. I keep saying I'm okay, I'm okay, but

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Speaker 1: the truth lurries it Back home, my family is struggling.

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Speaker 1: My father has died in debt. My mother's grieving the

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Speaker 1: love of her life. She's raising three children, the creditors

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Speaker 1: are knocking, and I, as a child, was just struggling.

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Speaker 1: I felt so untethered from myself and so untethered in

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Speaker 1: this experience of grief, and I started to respond to

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Speaker 1: that as so many people do when they experiencing emotional pain,

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Speaker 1: especially unprocessed emotional pain, which is for me, that took

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Speaker 1: the form of binging and purging, refusing to accept the

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Speaker 1: full weight to my grief and then the last thing

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Speaker 1: that I would just add to this journey of how

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Speaker 1: I come to my work is I remember when I

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Speaker 1: was then, probably about six months later, I'm in this struggle,

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Speaker 1: and I recall this extraordinary teacher handing out these blank

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Speaker 1: notebooks to the class. And she was my English teacher,

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Speaker 1: and she looked at me and she said an invitation

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Speaker 1: to the class, but it felt like it was to me.

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Speaker 1: She said, right, tell the truth, right, like no one

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Speaker 1: is reading. And so Laura, I started this correspondence with

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Speaker 1: this teacher. It was this correspondence where I would journal,

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Speaker 1: and I would hand in my journal and she would

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Speaker 1: write back to me in pencil. It was my story,

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Speaker 1: and she was writing back in pencil thoughts or responses

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Speaker 1: to what I was experiencing. And so I had this

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Speaker 1: feeling that actually became clear to me, which was this

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Speaker 1: act that I was engaging in with my teacher was

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Speaker 1: actually revolutionary for me. It was counter to what I

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Speaker 1: was being told in society, which is just get on

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Speaker 1: with it and just be positive. And instead what I

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Speaker 1: was doing is I was facing into these rarely difficulty

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Speaker 1: emotions and experiences, and that that secret, silent correspondence with

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Speaker 1: the teacher as well as the secret silence correspondence with

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Speaker 1: my own heart actually landed up shaping my career. So

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Speaker 1: I became an emotions researcher, and I was really just

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Speaker 1: foundationally interested in what is told to us by society

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Speaker 1: about emotions and in what ways does that narrative actually

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Speaker 1: not serve us. In fact, completely counter to making us

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Speaker 1: strong and more resident, it actually makes us more fragile.

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Speaker 1: And that became the threat of the work that I do.

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Speaker 1: And so I love this story because, you know, it

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Speaker 1: shows the kind of way that we normally deal with

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Speaker 1: these undesirable emotions, you know, both kind of the ways

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Speaker 1: that society tells us we need to deal with them,

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Speaker 1: but also our natural instinct, which is like, you know, avoid, avoid, avoid.

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Speaker 1: Like in the book, you kind of walk through so

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Speaker 1: many bad reactions we have when we have these undesirable emotions.

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Speaker 1: One of these are sort of jumping into our own

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Speaker 1: productivity and overwork. You know, talk about how this strategy

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Speaker 1: plays out and why it's so problematic for dealing with

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Speaker 1: undesirable emotions. Yeah, So, what I've found in my work

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Speaker 1: is that typically when people have difficult, tough emotions, they

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Speaker 1: very often have one of two ways of responding. The

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Speaker 1: first is what I call bottling, and bottling is basically

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Speaker 1: where you push aside the difficulty emotion, often with good intentions.

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Speaker 1: I've got so much to do. I just can't get on,

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Speaker 1: you know, I've just got to get on with my life.

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Speaker 1: And sometimes the reason that we do this is because

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Speaker 1: we fear that by facing into the difficulty emotion that

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Speaker 1: we don't have the skills to deal with it, or

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Speaker 1: that somehow it's just better to be productive and focused

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Speaker 1: on moving forward. And so bottling emotions is really this

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Speaker 1: idea that we push the emotions aside for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: and we think that that actually is helpful. But there's

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Speaker 1: a body of research showing that when we push aside

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Speaker 1: these difficulty emotions, there's actually an amplification effect, which is

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Speaker 1: really fascinating. For anyone who's ever tried not to eat

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Speaker 1: a big piece of chocolate cake that's tempting you in

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Speaker 1: the refrigerator, you know that the more you try not

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Speaker 1: to think about that piece of chocolate cake, the more

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Speaker 1: you dream about it. And the same experience happens with emotions.

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Speaker 1: And when I talk about emotions in this way, I'm

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Speaker 1: both talking about the big moments of emotions, the grief,

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Speaker 1: the loneliness, the loss. But I'm also talking about the

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Speaker 1: smaller experiences that we might have day to day. We

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Speaker 1: feel undermined in a meeting, we feel shut down, we

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Speaker 1: feel like we just want to roll our eyes at

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Speaker 1: the change that's going on in our organization. So we

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Speaker 1: have everyday thousands of these kinds of emotional experiences, and

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Speaker 1: on the one hand, we can bottle them, we push

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Speaker 1: them aside, but there is this amplification effect. And what

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Speaker 1: becomes clear when we look at the research is that

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Speaker 1: when we do this as not just a once off,

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Speaker 1: it as a tendency, actually it undermines our well being.

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Speaker 1: We have lower levels of resilience, higher depression, high anxiety.

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Speaker 1: It impacts on the quality of our relationships and even

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Speaker 1: on our ability to achieve our goals. Because if you

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Speaker 1: take these emotions that are trying to signal something to you, oh,

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Speaker 1: you bought in your job or things on going well,

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Speaker 1: and you push them aside, then you aren't actually adapting

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Speaker 1: to the reality of your life, and therefore you on

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Speaker 1: putting strategies in place to move forward effectively. So that's

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Speaker 1: one way we can deal with difficulty emotions. The other

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Speaker 1: looks so different, and yet a lot of the consequences

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Speaker 1: are the same. So brooding is where we get stuck

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Speaker 1: in the difficulty motion. We get victimized by our news feed,

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Speaker 1: we get hooked on being right. We go over and

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Speaker 1: over and over in our heads why it is we

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Speaker 1: so unhappy with something that's happened. And again, even though

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Speaker 1: this might have the semblance of being effective, it actually

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Speaker 1: keeps us very stuck in the emotional experience and not

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Speaker 1: moving forward effectively. And so if we think about this difference,

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Speaker 1: it's really fascinating because brooding is similarly associated with lower

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Speaker 1: levels of well being, a goal attainment, and relationships and

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Speaker 1: our almost imaginary It's like if you've got a pile

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Speaker 1: of books that you're holding in your emotions, or the

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Speaker 1: books bottling is where you hold those books so far

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Speaker 1: away from you that ultimately the energy and effort that's

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Speaker 1: involved in holding them far from you leads you to

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Speaker 1: drop them, and so you might snap at the person,

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Speaker 1: or you cry unexpectedly or court of God. By those

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Speaker 1: difficulty emotions. When we brooding, we hold the book so

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Speaker 1: tightly to ourselves, and so we're not able to see

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Speaker 1: the child who's giving us a hug or who wants

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Speaker 1: to be with us. We unable to be and breathe

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Speaker 1: and be wise in the world, So bottling up pain, anger,

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Speaker 1: and anxiety doesn't really work, But allowing these emotions to

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Speaker 1: fully take over doesn't help either. Unfortunately, these both tend

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Speaker 1: to be our go to strategies when we're facing a

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Speaker 1: tough situation. When we get back from the break, Susan

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Speaker 1: will share a potential middle path we can use to

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Speaker 1: navigate emotions. As we'll see, it's a strategy that we

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Speaker 1: can all use to find greater happiness. No matter what

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Speaker 1: life throws our way, the Happiness Lab will be right back.

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Speaker 1: Psychologist Susan David often explains the idea of emotional agility

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Speaker 1: with a story, the sad tale of a mariner who

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Speaker 1: is too stubborn to switch course when something bad popped

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Speaker 1: up on the horizon. It's a beautiful story, and it's

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Speaker 1: this idea that there's a captain on a ship and

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Speaker 1: he's basically trying to steer the ship effectively. He says

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Speaker 1: to a junior seman, let me know if you see anything,

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Speaker 1: and the seman comes to him and says, I'm seeing

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Speaker 1: something in front of us, and we are going to

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Speaker 1: bash into it. And the captain gets like more and

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Speaker 1: more arrogant and says, tell them that we are on

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Speaker 1: a collision course and tell them to move, tell them

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Speaker 1: to move. And so the seman keeps on relaying this

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Speaker 1: message to the obstacle, saying, you know, you've got to

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Speaker 1: move out the way. You've got to move out the way.

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Speaker 1: And ultimately a message comes back from the so called

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Speaker 1: obstacle saying, actually you need to move. Why because we

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Speaker 1: are a lighthouse, sir. And it's a beautiful story. Because ready,

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Speaker 1: if we think about what a lighthouse is, a lighthouse

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Speaker 1: is helping us to navigate. A lighthouse is helping us

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Speaker 1: to develop some sense of steering around the rocky shores

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Speaker 1: of life. And yet, often, if we think about the

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Speaker 1: metaphor if we want to extend it, our emotions are

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Speaker 1: the signal. You know, our emotions are signaling things that

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Speaker 1: are important. Our emotions might be signaling that this job

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Speaker 1: isn't going as wonderfully as you wanted, or the relationship

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Speaker 1: is actually not working out. And yet when we keep

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Speaker 1: on either avoiding the emotions or not connecting with them effectively,

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Speaker 1: then we aren't actually using that GPS system in the

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Speaker 1: way that it was intended, And so we then struggled

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Speaker 1: to be agile. We struggle to be effective. The world

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Speaker 1: is changing around us, and we need as human beings

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Speaker 1: to be able to have the capacity to deal with

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Speaker 1: the world as it is, which is a world that

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Speaker 1: is fragile, in which illness is interwoven with health, and

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Speaker 1: which love and loss are connected, in which we raise

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Speaker 1: children and then one day that child leaves. The emotion

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Speaker 1: that we experience are brokered to help us with the

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Speaker 1: reality of life which is changing and fragile. And yet

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Speaker 1: this notion that exists in our society, which is that

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Speaker 1: these difficulty emotions are bad. We need to ignore them,

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Speaker 1: We just need to fake positivity. It sounds good on

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Speaker 1: the surface very often, but actually what it does is

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Speaker 1: it undermines our capacity to be whole human beings in

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Speaker 1: the world. And so you've argued that the right way

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Speaker 1: to kind of listen to this lighthouse signal of our

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Speaker 1: emotions is with this notion of emotional agility and trying

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Speaker 1: to increase our emotional agility. Explain what you mean by

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Speaker 1: emotional agility. What is it so emotional agility is the

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Speaker 1: ability to be with your everyday thoughts and emotions and

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Speaker 1: experiences in a way that is healthy. And I'll go

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Speaker 1: into what I mean by the word healthy, but it's

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Speaker 1: being with these experiences in a way that's healthy so

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Speaker 1: that you can respond effectively to everyday situations. So let

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Speaker 1: me break that down a little bit. We all have thousands,

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Speaker 1: literally thousands, We have approximately according to some research, sixteen

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Speaker 1: thousand spoken thoughts every day and many more course through

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Speaker 1: our minds experiences of am I good enough? Am I

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Speaker 1: not good enough? Is the job? But you know that

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Speaker 1: all the stuff goes on in our minds. We have

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Speaker 1: all of our emotions, emotions like fear and sadness, grief, loneliness, loss, stress, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: we have all of it. And we also have stories.

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Speaker 1: Some of our stories were written on our mental chalkboards

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Speaker 1: when we were five years old, stories about who we are,

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Speaker 1: whether we good enough, whether we creative or not creative.

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Speaker 1: And so we have this normal experience of these thoughts, emotions,

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Speaker 1: and stories, and we need to have skills that enable

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Speaker 1: us to deal with these in ways that are healthy. Now,

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Speaker 1: what's not healthy is when we either push them aside

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Speaker 1: or we fail to learn from them, or when we

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Speaker 1: allow them to call the shots. And so what emotional

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Speaker 1: agility is. It's the ability to hold these thoughts and

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Speaker 1: emotions and stories lightly, so to not ignore them, but

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Speaker 1: to hold them lightly, to recognize, for instance, that when

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Speaker 1: we experience a difficulty emotion, that difficulty emotion, just like

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Speaker 1: the lighthouse, is tapping us on the shoulder, and it's saying,

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Speaker 1: there's this thing that's important to you, and Laurie, I'll

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Speaker 1: give you an example, loneliness. We don't like experiencing loneliness,

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Speaker 1: but loneliness is often signaling, sign posting that intimacy and

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Speaker 1: connection are important for you and that you don't have

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Speaker 1: enough of it in your life right now. Boredom at work.

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Speaker 1: We could look at boredom and go, I'm just going

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Speaker 1: to ignore it because at least I've got a job.

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Speaker 1: In other words, bottling difficult experience all we might say,

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Speaker 1: what is that boredom signaling? It's signaling that I value

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Speaker 1: growth and learning and I don't have enough of it.

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Speaker 1: I often think grief grief is love looking for its home.

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Speaker 1: Grief is tapping us on the shoulders saying, remember me,

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Speaker 1: think of the things that you learn from me. Hold

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Speaker 1: me I'm still with you in some way and bring

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Speaker 1: that to life in a way that feels special and connected.

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Speaker 1: And so holding our thoughts and emotions lightly is by

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Speaker 1: being curious with them and being able to recognize that

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Speaker 1: when we experience these difficulty emotions. While the dictates of

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Speaker 1: society might say, oh, you've just got to be positive,

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Speaker 1: you've just got to push them aside, in fact, there's

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Speaker 1: extraordinary beauty when we just slow down with them in

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Speaker 1: a way that is curious. Huh, what is this emotion

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Speaker 1: telling me about my needs or my values? There's also

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Speaker 1: connected with that, lorry, is this need to be compassionate

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Speaker 1: because it's hard to human it's hard to be a

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Speaker 1: human being in the world, regardless of what the circumstances

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Speaker 1: are of your world. And so emotional agility is really

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Speaker 1: about this ability to be with our emotions in ways

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Speaker 1: that are curious, compassionate, and courageous. Courageous because we don't

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Speaker 1: often always like what we see and feel, so that

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Speaker 1: we can then understand our values and our needs and

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Speaker 1: move forward in the direction of those values. And so

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Speaker 1: one of the ways you've argued we can start this

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Speaker 1: process of kind of gaining our emotional agility is first

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Speaker 1: to kind of show up and kind of non judgmentally

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Speaker 1: see the emotions we're dealing with. Bike is showing up

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Speaker 1: for our emotions so hard it's kind of funny, right,

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Speaker 1: like they're there, But we tend not to kind of

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Speaker 1: know what's going on when we experience these undesirable emotions. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we described a little bit earlier. We spoke a bit

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Speaker 1: about the narratives that exist in society, and it's important

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Speaker 1: to recognize that all of us grow up with what

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Speaker 1: are called display rules. Display rules are often the implicit

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Speaker 1: and sometimes even explicit rules that may be in existence

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Speaker 1: in the families that we were born into, or even

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Speaker 1: in society at large. And an example of a display

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Speaker 1: rule might be you come home from school as a

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Speaker 1: child and you angry, and a parent says to you

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Speaker 1: why you're angry, and you say, I'm angry because you know,

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Speaker 1: Jack didn't play with me today, and the parent, with

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Speaker 1: great intentions, jumps in and says something like, don't worry,

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Speaker 1: I'll play with you, you know, or I'll phone the

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Speaker 1: mean person's parents. Let's go back cupcakes. And it's done

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Speaker 1: with really good intentions. But what that might signal to you,

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Speaker 1: is that joy and happiness are loud in this house,

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Speaker 1: and that anger isn't or that sadness isn't. Sometimes these

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Speaker 1: rules are explicit. Sometimes someone might say, go to your

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Speaker 1: room and come up when you've got a smile on

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Speaker 1: your face. Lay rules exist in our communities. When we

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Speaker 1: say to someone with cancer who is terminally ill and

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Speaker 1: is suffering, and we said to the person, just keep positive,

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Speaker 1: what we are conveying is a display rule, which is

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Speaker 1: that their experience of pain and grief and hardship has

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Speaker 1: no place. And so it's really important to recognize that

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Speaker 1: one of the reasons that we unsee our difficulty emotions

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Speaker 1: is because despite the fact that they exist and are

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Speaker 1: all around us, there are these narratives that basically say

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Speaker 1: either they are not allowed, or they don't belong, or

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Speaker 1: we live in a world that says we can fix everything.

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Speaker 1: If we don't like our car, we can buy a

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Speaker 1: new car. If we don't like the walls, we can

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Speaker 1: paint them at different color. And so when we experience

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Speaker 1: these difficult thoughts and emotions, we can just fix them.

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Speaker 1: We can find ways to be grateful, we can think

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Speaker 1: positive and everything will be okay. But it actually doesn't work.

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Speaker 1: And so what we are doing when we start cultivating

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Speaker 1: this capacity to show up to our difficulty emotions is

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Speaker 1: we stopped recognizing that when a city is being bombed,

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Speaker 1: it's very difficult to rebuild, it's very difficult to find

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Speaker 1: a way forward in the midst of the bombing. It's

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Speaker 1: only when there is an internal ceasefire that one is

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Speaker 1: able to start moving forward effectively. And so if you

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Speaker 1: in a space with your difficulty emotions where you say,

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Speaker 1: I'm not allowed to have heard I should be grateful.

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Speaker 1: I need to just think positive. Literally, what you're doing

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Speaker 1: is you're in a little wall with yourself about your

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Speaker 1: own emotions and your own suffering. And so a really

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Speaker 1: important part of showing up is ending that war, literally

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Speaker 1: ending the war. This is what I feel. This is

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Speaker 1: my experience. There's no wrong or right way to be

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Speaker 1: experiencing right now. This is my feeling. And when we

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Speaker 1: show up to those difficulty emotions with compassion, which is

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Speaker 1: really important, we are then able to start crafting a

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Speaker 1: way forward with the experience. And one of the ways

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Speaker 1: we can really kind of develop that compassion is to

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Speaker 1: kind of become a little bit curious about the emotions

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Speaker 1: we're experiencing. You know, sometimes we don't even know what

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Speaker 1: they are. And you've argued that one way we can

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Speaker 1: do that is to literally label our emotions. You know,

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Speaker 1: why is the labeling of emotions so important? So labeling emotions,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's almost like an emotional superpower. So because

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Speaker 1: there is a tragedy. And that sounds dramatic, but I

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Speaker 1: think it to be true. There is a tragedy that

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Speaker 1: exists in our schools and in our workplaces, where emotions

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Speaker 1: have historically, for a number of reasons that we could explore,

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Speaker 1: have been pushed aside. They're seen as soft skills. They

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Speaker 1: are seen as being less important than things like math

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Speaker 1: and strategy. What we have is literally entire generations of

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Speaker 1: people who have not been taught foundational emotional agility skills.

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Speaker 1: And these are core to our well being, tour mental health,

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Speaker 1: to our relationships. Internal pain always comes out, and the

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Speaker 1: people that pay the price, ourselves and our community, is

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Speaker 1: our children. And so one of the emotional skills that

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Speaker 1: is not taught is the superpower, which is emotion granularity.

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Speaker 1: And I'll give you an example of what I mean

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Speaker 1: by this. Often, when we've had a tough day, we'll

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Speaker 1: say something like I'm stressed. We use a very broad brushstroke,

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Speaker 1: black and white label to describe the emotion that we've experienced,

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Speaker 1: and stressed is the most common one I hear, but

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Speaker 1: people might have their own that they use that have

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Speaker 1: become very familiar, and it's basically this label that you use,

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Speaker 1: that your quick go to label to describe what it

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Speaker 1: is you're feeling. Now, if we think about it, there

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Speaker 1: is a world of difference between stress and disappointment. Stress

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Speaker 1: and that knowing, gnawing feeling of I'm in the wrong job,

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Speaker 1: the wrong career, or this relationship isn't working out. Stress

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Speaker 1: and exhaustion burnout. If you label your experience as stress,

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Speaker 1: it's a very diffuse label. It's very murky, and your body,

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Speaker 1: your psychology doesn't really know what to do with that.

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Speaker 1: It's almost like being in that boat and you think

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Speaker 1: that there might be something on the horizon that you've

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Speaker 1: got to pay attention to, but you've got no idea

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Speaker 1: what it is. But when you start saying to yourself,

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Speaker 1: what are two other options? I'm calling this thing stress,

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Speaker 1: but what else could it be? Oh it's disappointment, Oh

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Speaker 1: it's feeling unsupported. What it starts to do is it

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Speaker 1: starts to activate the readiness potential in us as human beings,

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Speaker 1: which starts saying, what do I need to do in

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Speaker 1: relation to this? And so there's enormous power in being

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Speaker 1: able to label this emotion accurately because it helps us

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Speaker 1: to understand both the cause of the emotion as well

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Speaker 1: as the steps that we might need to take in

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Speaker 1: order to process that emotion effectively. And we know, for instance,

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Speaker 1: that even in young children this capacity is profoundly, profoundly important.

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Speaker 1: As sixteen year old who is encouraged by a peer to, oh,

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Speaker 1: let's let the air out of the principle's car tires.

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Speaker 1: If that sixteen year old is able to say, on

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Speaker 1: the one hand, I feel excited and tempted, but actually,

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Speaker 1: deeper down, there's a sense of disquiet, trepidation, this doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel right. That is a child who's going to be

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Speaker 1: able to delay gratification, who's going to be able to

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Speaker 1: focus more on their moral compass, their values and their

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Speaker 1: goals and their character over time. So it sounds like

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00:25:01,956 --> 00:25:04,796
Speaker 1: such a subtle skill when someone says, oh, when you

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00:25:04,876 --> 00:25:08,596
Speaker 1: experience something, don't use just the first broad brushstroke label

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Speaker 1: labor more accurately. It feels like, oh, okay, is that

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Speaker 1: what you've got to offer? But it is just extraordinary

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Speaker 1: in terms of how important it is. So when we

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Speaker 1: think about these emotions is distinct. When we kind of

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Speaker 1: label them, then we can start in on another process,

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Speaker 1: which is to start using our emotions not as this

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Speaker 1: kind of horrible sensation, but really as data for what

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Speaker 1: we can do as the next app. You know, so

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Speaker 1: talk about some strategies we can use to do this. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's so important. The way that I think about emotions

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Speaker 1: is our emotions are data. So emotions again contain signposts

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Speaker 1: to the things that we care about, but our emotions

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Speaker 1: on directives. I can show up to my son's frustration

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Speaker 1: with his baby sister. I can see it, I can

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Speaker 1: hold space for it. I can be accepting of it,

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Speaker 1: but it doesn't mean that I'm endorsing his idea that

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Speaker 1: he gets to give away to the first stranger that

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Speaker 1: he sees in a shopping mall. Okay, our emotions are data,

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Speaker 1: not directives. In other words, we own our emotions. They

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00:26:08,076 --> 00:26:11,716
Speaker 1: don't own us. And so another skill that becomes really

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00:26:11,756 --> 00:26:15,876
Speaker 1: important in helping us to not push aside the difficulty emotions,

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00:26:15,916 --> 00:26:21,156
Speaker 1: not brood on them, but develop healthy space with our emotions.

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Speaker 1: Is if we just think about the language again of

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Speaker 1: how we often describe emotions. We often say things like

430
00:26:28,876 --> 00:26:34,636
Speaker 1: I am sad, I am angry, I am frustrated, I

431
00:26:34,676 --> 00:26:38,636
Speaker 1: am being undermined. Now, if you just think about this language,

432
00:26:38,836 --> 00:26:43,836
Speaker 1: words matter. So when you say I am, it's pretty

433
00:26:43,956 --> 00:26:48,596
Speaker 1: much as if you are the emotion. I am all

434
00:26:48,636 --> 00:26:52,636
Speaker 1: of me, one hundred percent of me is the emotion.

435
00:26:52,996 --> 00:26:55,796
Speaker 1: When you do this, there's no space for anything else.

436
00:26:55,836 --> 00:26:59,916
Speaker 1: There's no space for wisdom, there's no space for intention.

437
00:27:00,516 --> 00:27:04,396
Speaker 1: Victor Frankel talks about this sentiment of between stimulus and response,

438
00:27:04,396 --> 00:27:07,116
Speaker 1: there is a space and in that space is our

439
00:27:07,156 --> 00:27:09,996
Speaker 1: power to choose, and in that choice our growth and

440
00:27:09,996 --> 00:27:13,156
Speaker 1: our freedom. So when we are hooked by a difficulty emotion,

441
00:27:13,236 --> 00:27:15,276
Speaker 1: when we feel triggered by it, there is no space.

442
00:27:15,356 --> 00:27:18,556
Speaker 1: We just feel something and we respond. You know someone

443
00:27:18,556 --> 00:27:20,396
Speaker 1: that I love starting in on the finances, I'm going

444
00:27:20,436 --> 00:27:22,876
Speaker 1: to leave the root because I feel alienated. So we hooked.

445
00:27:23,276 --> 00:27:25,596
Speaker 1: And what we're trying to do when we being emotionally

446
00:27:25,596 --> 00:27:29,276
Speaker 1: agiles to cultivate healthy space between us and our emotions,

447
00:27:29,276 --> 00:27:31,756
Speaker 1: so that we own the emotions. They don't own us.

448
00:27:32,116 --> 00:27:34,036
Speaker 1: And one of the ways we can start doing this

449
00:27:34,196 --> 00:27:36,836
Speaker 1: is by recognizing again that when we say I am,

450
00:27:37,396 --> 00:27:40,756
Speaker 1: there's no space. You're literally defining yourself by the emotion,

451
00:27:41,036 --> 00:27:45,276
Speaker 1: and so what's being crowded out. There are the other

452
00:27:45,476 --> 00:27:50,676
Speaker 1: parts of you that exist in every single one of us.

453
00:27:50,676 --> 00:27:55,716
Speaker 1: Our wisdom, our intention, our values, who we want to be,

454
00:27:55,956 --> 00:28:00,716
Speaker 1: our breathing, our connectedness. There's so much scentedness in every

455
00:28:00,716 --> 00:28:03,916
Speaker 1: single one of us. And so the way we can

456
00:28:03,956 --> 00:28:08,516
Speaker 1: start creating this space is by noticing the thoughts or

457
00:28:08,556 --> 00:28:12,076
Speaker 1: the emotion or the stories for what they are. They

458
00:28:12,156 --> 00:28:16,156
Speaker 1: are thoughts, emotions, and stories. They're not fact. So an example,

459
00:28:16,316 --> 00:28:20,036
Speaker 1: I am sad, I'm noticing that I'm feeling sad. I'm

460
00:28:20,036 --> 00:28:23,596
Speaker 1: being undermined. I'm noticing that this is my thought that

461
00:28:23,676 --> 00:28:26,596
Speaker 1: I'm being undermined. I'm not good enough, there's no point

462
00:28:26,596 --> 00:28:29,996
Speaker 1: in even trying. I'm noticing that this is my I'm

463
00:28:30,036 --> 00:28:33,036
Speaker 1: not good enough story. When you do this, you aren't

464
00:28:33,156 --> 00:28:38,076
Speaker 1: ignoring your difficult experience, but you're creating space in it.

465
00:28:38,516 --> 00:28:41,996
Speaker 1: And a beautiful metaphor that I think when I think

466
00:28:42,036 --> 00:28:44,556
Speaker 1: about this skill is that when you say I am.

467
00:28:45,196 --> 00:28:49,796
Speaker 1: It's almost like you are the emotion, and the emotion

468
00:28:49,916 --> 00:28:54,596
Speaker 1: is a cloud, and you've become the cloud. I am sad.

469
00:28:55,196 --> 00:28:58,356
Speaker 1: But when you instead create space between you and the emotion,

470
00:28:58,476 --> 00:29:02,996
Speaker 1: I'm noticing that I'm feeling sad. There's literally a kind

471
00:29:03,036 --> 00:29:07,156
Speaker 1: of distance that's created in language. What happens then, is

472
00:29:07,516 --> 00:29:11,476
Speaker 1: you aren't the cloud any longer. You are the sky.

473
00:29:11,676 --> 00:29:14,076
Speaker 1: You are the sky. Every single one of us is

474
00:29:14,156 --> 00:29:18,676
Speaker 1: beautiful and capacious enough to have all of our difficulty

475
00:29:18,716 --> 00:29:21,756
Speaker 1: emotions and still choose who we want to be in

476
00:29:21,796 --> 00:29:27,796
Speaker 1: the moment. You are not the cloud. You are the sky.

477
00:29:27,876 --> 00:29:30,356
Speaker 1: But it's not enough to label our emotions and change

478
00:29:30,356 --> 00:29:34,036
Speaker 1: how we talk about them. True emotional agility requires getting

479
00:29:34,036 --> 00:29:37,076
Speaker 1: curious about what our emotions are telling us and where

480
00:29:37,076 --> 00:29:40,676
Speaker 1: are they're steering us. And that kind of agility requires

481
00:29:40,676 --> 00:29:43,276
Speaker 1: something more. In the words of one of my favorite

482
00:29:43,276 --> 00:29:48,516
Speaker 1: seventies bands, Parliament, we got to have that funk. You'll

483
00:29:48,516 --> 00:29:51,196
Speaker 1: hear more about the funk when the Happiness Lab returns

484
00:29:51,236 --> 00:30:07,236
Speaker 1: in a moment. Psychologists Susan David argues that the first

485
00:30:07,236 --> 00:30:10,356
Speaker 1: step in reacting effectively to our ne emotions, there's no

486
00:30:10,516 --> 00:30:14,036
Speaker 1: anguish specific emotion. We're dealing with. We need to distinguish

487
00:30:14,076 --> 00:30:17,716
Speaker 1: a catchisle sensation like stress for more specific feelings like

488
00:30:17,836 --> 00:30:21,516
Speaker 1: exhaustion or disappointment. But once we know what emotion we're

489
00:30:21,556 --> 00:30:24,036
Speaker 1: dealing with, we also need to figure out what it's

490
00:30:24,036 --> 00:30:26,956
Speaker 1: saying to us, or, if Susan puts it, we need

491
00:30:26,996 --> 00:30:31,516
Speaker 1: to ask, what's the funk? I love this In my book,

492
00:30:31,556 --> 00:30:34,276
Speaker 1: I describe this idea of what the funk and what

493
00:30:34,316 --> 00:30:38,556
Speaker 1: the funk like? WTF is not a description of the

494
00:30:38,596 --> 00:30:42,396
Speaker 1: more explicit label. It's basically saying, what is the function

495
00:30:42,596 --> 00:30:45,596
Speaker 1: of the emotion? What the funk? You know, what the

496
00:30:45,636 --> 00:30:48,636
Speaker 1: funk is my grief signaling? What the funk is my

497
00:30:48,756 --> 00:30:51,796
Speaker 1: loneliness signaling. And so what we're starting to do when

498
00:30:51,796 --> 00:30:55,236
Speaker 1: we ask ourselves what the funk is, we are starting

499
00:30:55,276 --> 00:30:59,756
Speaker 1: to really create this beautiful space between us and the emotion.

500
00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:04,796
Speaker 1: So instead of feeling that the emotion owns us, that

501
00:31:04,796 --> 00:31:08,716
Speaker 1: it's driving us, that we triggered by it, that it's

502
00:31:08,876 --> 00:31:11,316
Speaker 1: right at our story, what we're starting to do is

503
00:31:11,316 --> 00:31:13,396
Speaker 1: we're starting to use the emotion in the way that

504
00:31:13,436 --> 00:31:17,116
Speaker 1: it was intended, which is to help us to adapt.

505
00:31:17,276 --> 00:31:22,236
Speaker 1: And so what the funk is a lovely short form

506
00:31:22,436 --> 00:31:26,716
Speaker 1: for what is the function? What is the emotion trying

507
00:31:26,756 --> 00:31:30,396
Speaker 1: to tell me about my needs or my values? When

508
00:31:30,716 --> 00:31:37,276
Speaker 1: I am worried about a situation in the workplace. On

509
00:31:37,316 --> 00:31:39,756
Speaker 1: the face of it, I might say, Okay, well, I'm

510
00:31:39,756 --> 00:31:42,356
Speaker 1: just feeling worried or I'm just feeling angry. But when

511
00:31:42,356 --> 00:31:46,156
Speaker 1: we start saying what the funk, it may be that

512
00:31:46,156 --> 00:31:49,796
Speaker 1: that worry is signaling that we really care about quality,

513
00:31:50,356 --> 00:31:52,876
Speaker 1: or we really care about our clients, and that we

514
00:31:52,956 --> 00:31:56,916
Speaker 1: are concerned that the way we are moving forward is

515
00:31:57,156 --> 00:32:00,716
Speaker 1: actually not a good direction. So when we start asking

516
00:32:00,716 --> 00:32:03,956
Speaker 1: ourselves what the funk, whether that's in a personal context

517
00:32:04,116 --> 00:32:07,076
Speaker 1: or in a broader context, we're starting to say, what

518
00:32:07,276 --> 00:32:10,076
Speaker 1: is this emotion trying to signal about values? On my needs?

519
00:32:10,076 --> 00:32:12,716
Speaker 1: And the example that I gave earlier, which is if

520
00:32:12,956 --> 00:32:17,196
Speaker 1: I am feeling lonely, the function of that loneliness is

521
00:32:17,236 --> 00:32:20,076
Speaker 1: to say that I need more intimacy and connection. And

522
00:32:20,156 --> 00:32:24,436
Speaker 1: so you might say, well, I am on zoom calls

523
00:32:24,476 --> 00:32:27,396
Speaker 1: every day and I see people all around me. But

524
00:32:27,476 --> 00:32:29,676
Speaker 1: we know that we can be lonely in a crowd,

525
00:32:30,116 --> 00:32:34,876
Speaker 1: and so what the function of loneliness might be saying,

526
00:32:35,356 --> 00:32:39,036
Speaker 1: you know, you pass your spouse in the kitchen as

527
00:32:39,076 --> 00:32:41,716
Speaker 1: you're both getting a coffee and you're both on your

528
00:32:41,716 --> 00:32:45,196
Speaker 1: phones and you barely look up at one another. And yes,

529
00:32:45,276 --> 00:32:47,196
Speaker 1: you might be in a house full of people, but

530
00:32:47,276 --> 00:32:50,476
Speaker 1: you still feel lonely. And the function of that loneliness

531
00:32:50,636 --> 00:32:54,316
Speaker 1: is to help you to reach out in the direction

532
00:32:54,436 --> 00:32:57,436
Speaker 1: of the need or the value, and so you can

533
00:32:57,476 --> 00:33:01,796
Speaker 1: then start making small changes, which is, you know, in

534
00:33:01,836 --> 00:33:04,636
Speaker 1: this particular example, it might be that there's this moment

535
00:33:05,236 --> 00:33:11,076
Speaker 1: of opportunity that you have in your day where you

536
00:33:11,116 --> 00:33:15,876
Speaker 1: can move in the direction of your needs or your values.

537
00:33:16,116 --> 00:33:19,516
Speaker 1: So it might be that you genuinely are giving that

538
00:33:19,556 --> 00:33:21,316
Speaker 1: person a hug at the end of the day and

539
00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:24,796
Speaker 1: crafting a new moment of connection. And we can do

540
00:33:24,836 --> 00:33:28,636
Speaker 1: this with any of our emotions or emotional experiences where

541
00:33:28,676 --> 00:33:31,796
Speaker 1: we are learning from them. A good way actually of

542
00:33:31,916 --> 00:33:35,236
Speaker 1: thinking about this is, as people are listening to this podcast,

543
00:33:35,516 --> 00:33:38,156
Speaker 1: if I asked you on a blank piece of paper

544
00:33:38,636 --> 00:33:43,036
Speaker 1: to just think about some emotion words that you've been experiencing.

545
00:33:43,196 --> 00:33:48,236
Speaker 1: So I've been feeling X whatever that is for you,

546
00:33:48,516 --> 00:33:52,916
Speaker 1: regret or sadness or anxiety, whatever that is. So you've

547
00:33:52,956 --> 00:33:55,356
Speaker 1: got that on that piece of paper. Now in a

548
00:33:55,396 --> 00:34:00,636
Speaker 1: world that focuses on forced false positivity. You might imagine

549
00:34:00,676 --> 00:34:02,076
Speaker 1: that I'm going to ask you to now turn the

550
00:34:02,076 --> 00:34:04,516
Speaker 1: piece of paper over and write about, well, what you

551
00:34:04,556 --> 00:34:07,916
Speaker 1: should be grateful for or why you should be happy.

552
00:34:08,236 --> 00:34:10,996
Speaker 1: But actually what I would ask you to do is

553
00:34:11,076 --> 00:34:14,436
Speaker 1: something quite different, which is to turn the piece of

554
00:34:14,476 --> 00:34:19,396
Speaker 1: paper over and ask yourself, what is that emotion signaling

555
00:34:19,596 --> 00:34:23,916
Speaker 1: about your needs or your values? And even if that

556
00:34:24,036 --> 00:34:27,996
Speaker 1: emotion has actually been a joyous emotion. You know, if

557
00:34:28,036 --> 00:34:31,796
Speaker 1: you of the past couple of months have experienced a

558
00:34:31,836 --> 00:34:36,316
Speaker 1: lot more joy than might be typical, you might be

559
00:34:36,556 --> 00:34:41,196
Speaker 1: asking yourself, what is this joy signaling about my needs?

560
00:34:41,316 --> 00:34:46,716
Speaker 1: It may be that you have reconnected with creativity or

561
00:34:46,756 --> 00:34:51,596
Speaker 1: with particular people. And so again, even that beautiful experience

562
00:34:51,636 --> 00:34:55,196
Speaker 1: of joy is signposting that this thing is important to

563
00:34:55,236 --> 00:34:58,436
Speaker 1: you and you can keep moving towards it, and a

564
00:34:58,516 --> 00:35:04,836
Speaker 1: reminder to keep threading this experience, this quality through your life.

565
00:35:05,236 --> 00:35:07,676
Speaker 1: And so this is so important that our emotions can

566
00:35:07,836 --> 00:35:10,356
Speaker 1: have this function of signaling our values, because I think,

567
00:35:10,636 --> 00:35:12,876
Speaker 1: you know, just like our thoughts and just like our emotions,

568
00:35:12,996 --> 00:35:15,196
Speaker 1: sometimes our values or the kind of thing that we

569
00:35:15,236 --> 00:35:17,676
Speaker 1: can't totally see, you know, we're sort of blind to

570
00:35:17,756 --> 00:35:20,756
Speaker 1: which values we're living out, and you talk about cases

571
00:35:20,756 --> 00:35:23,476
Speaker 1: where emotions can sometimes tell us that we're living out

572
00:35:23,516 --> 00:35:25,956
Speaker 1: the wrong kinds of values. You have this lovely phrase

573
00:35:26,236 --> 00:35:28,636
Speaker 1: in your book called the idea we're living out dead

574
00:35:28,636 --> 00:35:31,196
Speaker 1: people's goals. You know, what do you mean here? And

575
00:35:31,236 --> 00:35:33,956
Speaker 1: how can emotions be so helpful in this in this regard?

576
00:35:34,476 --> 00:35:37,076
Speaker 1: So the idea with what I described with dead people's

577
00:35:37,076 --> 00:35:39,716
Speaker 1: goals is just often people will say things like I

578
00:35:39,796 --> 00:35:41,796
Speaker 1: don't want to be stressed, I don't want my heart

579
00:35:41,796 --> 00:35:45,876
Speaker 1: to be broken, I don't want this project to fail.

580
00:35:46,556 --> 00:35:50,716
Speaker 1: And what I mean by dead people's goals is the

581
00:35:50,756 --> 00:35:53,796
Speaker 1: only people and I say this, you know facetiously, is

582
00:35:53,836 --> 00:35:56,676
Speaker 1: that the only people who don't ever have their hearts broken,

583
00:35:57,396 --> 00:36:02,516
Speaker 1: who never experience stress or loss or disappointment, are dead.

584
00:36:03,036 --> 00:36:07,236
Speaker 1: You know, discomfort is the price of admission to a

585
00:36:07,316 --> 00:36:10,596
Speaker 1: meaningful life. We don't get to leave the world a

586
00:36:10,676 --> 00:36:14,396
Speaker 1: better place, or raise a family, or build a meaningful

587
00:36:14,436 --> 00:36:19,996
Speaker 1: career without stress and discomfort. So in that context, you know,

588
00:36:20,116 --> 00:36:22,516
Speaker 1: when I say discomfort is the price of admission to

589
00:36:22,556 --> 00:36:26,996
Speaker 1: a meaningful life, what that then says is it becomes

590
00:36:26,996 --> 00:36:31,996
Speaker 1: really important for our emotional capacity that we develop the

591
00:36:32,116 --> 00:36:37,316
Speaker 1: ability to be with and learn from discomfort, because those

592
00:36:37,396 --> 00:36:40,996
Speaker 1: uncomfortable emotions, again are signaling things that we care about.

593
00:36:41,356 --> 00:36:48,116
Speaker 1: And oftentimes when people talk about values, it feels very abstract.

594
00:36:48,156 --> 00:36:49,996
Speaker 1: It feels like the kinds of things that people put

595
00:36:49,996 --> 00:36:53,916
Speaker 1: on walls and businesses, and feels very distant from us.

596
00:36:54,436 --> 00:36:56,636
Speaker 1: The way that I think of values are that they're

597
00:36:56,676 --> 00:37:00,436
Speaker 1: the heartbeat of your why. They are things that at

598
00:37:00,596 --> 00:37:04,036
Speaker 1: core matter to you, and they not abstract. They are

599
00:37:04,156 --> 00:37:08,396
Speaker 1: qualities of action, the qualities of action. So every single

600
00:37:08,516 --> 00:37:14,276
Speaker 1: day life is asking you, it's asking me, is saying

601
00:37:14,476 --> 00:37:17,596
Speaker 1: who do you want to be today? Every day and

602
00:37:18,916 --> 00:37:25,556
Speaker 1: every day we have opportunities to either move towards our

603
00:37:25,676 --> 00:37:29,516
Speaker 1: values or away from our values. If we value health,

604
00:37:30,076 --> 00:37:34,436
Speaker 1: are we moving towards the running shoes or away from them?

605
00:37:34,516 --> 00:37:41,756
Speaker 1: If we value relationship, are we moving towards the uncomfortable

606
00:37:41,796 --> 00:37:45,956
Speaker 1: conversation because we know that it's important to our relationship,

607
00:37:46,836 --> 00:37:49,756
Speaker 1: or are we moving away from it because I just

608
00:37:50,196 --> 00:37:52,796
Speaker 1: can't be bothered to go there, even though we know

609
00:37:52,916 --> 00:37:55,996
Speaker 1: at its core that that leads to disengagement and dissolution.

610
00:37:56,476 --> 00:38:01,836
Speaker 1: So every day we have these opportunities to move towards

611
00:38:01,876 --> 00:38:07,916
Speaker 1: our values. We stay upright on a bicycle by cycling,

612
00:38:08,076 --> 00:38:11,316
Speaker 1: and we stay up its people with the lives that

613
00:38:11,356 --> 00:38:15,636
Speaker 1: we want to be living by moving actively towards the

614
00:38:15,716 --> 00:38:18,276
Speaker 1: things that we care about. And so then often people

615
00:38:18,276 --> 00:38:20,396
Speaker 1: will say things like, well, how do I work out

616
00:38:20,516 --> 00:38:23,956
Speaker 1: what my values are? You know, how do I start

617
00:38:23,996 --> 00:38:26,516
Speaker 1: discerning what my values are? And it's a really important

618
00:38:26,556 --> 00:38:30,396
Speaker 1: question because again it's not the kind of conversation that

619
00:38:30,476 --> 00:38:33,716
Speaker 1: we often have in our schools or in our workplaces,

620
00:38:34,036 --> 00:38:39,036
Speaker 1: and that becomes really challenging. I'm sure that in the

621
00:38:39,076 --> 00:38:42,436
Speaker 1: podcast you've explored things like social contagion, where we know

622
00:38:42,476 --> 00:38:45,236
Speaker 1: that people can start picking up behaviors of other people.

623
00:38:45,476 --> 00:38:47,756
Speaker 1: Your next door neighbor drives a particular car, We want

624
00:38:47,756 --> 00:38:50,036
Speaker 1: to drive that car, and sometimes we don't even know

625
00:38:50,116 --> 00:38:53,436
Speaker 1: we're doing it. We know from large scale epidemiological studies

626
00:38:53,436 --> 00:38:57,836
Speaker 1: that your chances of getting divorced increase if people in

627
00:38:57,876 --> 00:39:00,596
Speaker 1: your social network that you don't even know get divorced,

628
00:39:00,596 --> 00:39:03,636
Speaker 1: and we saw this in the pandemic, how people catch

629
00:39:03,676 --> 00:39:07,556
Speaker 1: other people's behaviors. So what can start happening is, over time,

630
00:39:08,316 --> 00:39:11,916
Speaker 1: we can move more and more and more away from

631
00:39:11,996 --> 00:39:14,516
Speaker 1: the things that matter to us, and so it becomes

632
00:39:14,556 --> 00:39:19,236
Speaker 1: really important for us to just sometimes take a little

633
00:39:19,236 --> 00:39:23,476
Speaker 1: bit of time to affirm our values. There's been some

634
00:39:23,516 --> 00:39:26,276
Speaker 1: work that's just asked people to just sit down for

635
00:39:26,316 --> 00:39:31,196
Speaker 1: ten minutes and ask them to remind themselves what's important

636
00:39:31,356 --> 00:39:34,836
Speaker 1: to them in their relationship or what's important to them

637
00:39:35,076 --> 00:39:38,356
Speaker 1: in what they're studying or their careers. And that type

638
00:39:38,356 --> 00:39:43,276
Speaker 1: of values affirmation is very strong and very protective in

639
00:39:43,396 --> 00:39:47,796
Speaker 1: terms of enabling people to ward off that social contagion.

640
00:39:47,956 --> 00:39:51,156
Speaker 1: But as you speak to Laurie, one of the core

641
00:39:51,236 --> 00:39:54,636
Speaker 1: ways that we can start connecting with our values is

642
00:39:54,756 --> 00:39:59,476
Speaker 1: by paying attention to the heartbeat that comes through our

643
00:39:59,476 --> 00:40:04,036
Speaker 1: difficulty emotions. Because often our difficulty emotions are sign posting.

644
00:40:04,716 --> 00:40:07,476
Speaker 1: They're sign posting things that matter to us, and so

645
00:40:07,636 --> 00:40:09,836
Speaker 1: you know, this brings us to you kind of irony

646
00:40:09,916 --> 00:40:12,916
Speaker 1: rate in that running away from our negative emotions, trying

647
00:40:12,916 --> 00:40:14,956
Speaker 1: to avoid them, you know, trying to bottle them up.

648
00:40:15,316 --> 00:40:18,356
Speaker 1: We're like missing out on this super important signpost. This

649
00:40:18,476 --> 00:40:21,036
Speaker 1: like lighthouse that's signaling like, hey, your value is over

650
00:40:21,076 --> 00:40:22,836
Speaker 1: here and you're not meeting it right, you know, but

651
00:40:22,876 --> 00:40:25,036
Speaker 1: you might need to switch your behavior, you know. Do

652
00:40:25,076 --> 00:40:28,196
Speaker 1: you think through this idea really welcoming our inner experiences,

653
00:40:28,236 --> 00:40:31,076
Speaker 1: you know, like breathing into them, accepting them with curiosity.

654
00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:32,436
Speaker 1: You know, is that going to set us on a

655
00:40:32,436 --> 00:40:34,556
Speaker 1: new course that will allow us to flourish a little

656
00:40:34,596 --> 00:40:37,756
Speaker 1: bit more. Absolutely, if we look just at the notion

657
00:40:37,836 --> 00:40:42,156
Speaker 1: of acceptance of emotions, we know that acceptance of emotions

658
00:40:42,156 --> 00:40:45,356
Speaker 1: as opposed to pushing them aside or brooding on them,

659
00:40:46,356 --> 00:40:53,156
Speaker 1: is a cornerstone to well being, is a cornerstone to resilience,

660
00:40:53,156 --> 00:40:56,756
Speaker 1: because now you're actually developing skills to help you to

661
00:40:56,796 --> 00:41:00,076
Speaker 1: deal with the world as it is, which is this

662
00:41:00,676 --> 00:41:05,916
Speaker 1: broken world where heartbreak and loss hold hands with one another.

663
00:41:06,236 --> 00:41:11,876
Speaker 1: And so these skills that I'm taught to our truly

664
00:41:12,276 --> 00:41:17,996
Speaker 1: foundational skills in our personal relationships, in our relationship with self,

665
00:41:18,236 --> 00:41:22,156
Speaker 1: and also even in our workplaces, in our communities. We

666
00:41:22,196 --> 00:41:25,396
Speaker 1: can apply these exact same kinds of skills when we're

667
00:41:25,396 --> 00:41:28,636
Speaker 1: having difficult conversations with our children. Often we try to

668
00:41:28,676 --> 00:41:32,596
Speaker 1: convert them just be happy. But if we can hold

669
00:41:32,676 --> 00:41:36,436
Speaker 1: space for those difficulty emotions and we can help them

670
00:41:36,476 --> 00:41:39,596
Speaker 1: to label them, and we can help them to understand, Oh,

671
00:41:39,756 --> 00:41:43,556
Speaker 1: you upset with Jack, because friendship is important to you,

672
00:41:44,756 --> 00:41:46,396
Speaker 1: how do you want to be as a friend. What

673
00:41:46,476 --> 00:41:49,676
Speaker 1: does friendship look like? What you're now doing is you're

674
00:41:49,756 --> 00:41:52,796
Speaker 1: helping the child to develop their own moral compass and

675
00:41:53,556 --> 00:41:58,356
Speaker 1: sense of character. And this is extraordinarily important because when

676
00:41:58,356 --> 00:42:04,876
Speaker 1: the world is changing around us, being grounded in ourselves

677
00:42:05,596 --> 00:42:11,236
Speaker 1: with levels of courage, with levels of curiosity, with compassion,

678
00:42:12,116 --> 00:42:16,916
Speaker 1: and with the willingness to take values connected steps is

679
00:42:16,956 --> 00:42:22,236
Speaker 1: the only way forward in a fragile, beautiful world. I

680
00:42:22,276 --> 00:42:24,396
Speaker 1: was haunted by a phrase that Susan used a few

681
00:42:24,436 --> 00:42:28,316
Speaker 1: times during our conversation. She noted that discomfort is the

682
00:42:28,356 --> 00:42:31,916
Speaker 1: price of admission for a meaningful life. We often run

683
00:42:31,916 --> 00:42:34,756
Speaker 1: away from things we think will bring us discomfort, all

684
00:42:34,796 --> 00:42:38,716
Speaker 1: the potential failure, humiliation, and rejection of life. But by

685
00:42:38,796 --> 00:42:41,956
Speaker 1: running away, by not even trying, we deny ourselves the

686
00:42:41,996 --> 00:42:45,556
Speaker 1: opportunity to win, to be a success, and to be accepted.

687
00:42:46,236 --> 00:42:49,596
Speaker 1: Susan's quote really resonated with me because I definitely struggle

688
00:42:49,596 --> 00:42:52,316
Speaker 1: with this very issue. But I'm hopeful that this special

689
00:42:52,316 --> 00:42:54,956
Speaker 1: season of the Happiness Lab can help us learn how

690
00:42:54,996 --> 00:42:57,596
Speaker 1: to deal with our negative emotions without all the fear,

691
00:42:58,196 --> 00:43:00,156
Speaker 1: so that they won't hold us back from doing all

692
00:43:00,196 --> 00:43:02,676
Speaker 1: the things that we'll give our lives, more happiness, and

693
00:43:02,756 --> 00:43:05,956
Speaker 1: more meaning. In our next two shows, we're going to

694
00:43:05,996 --> 00:43:08,116
Speaker 1: be jumping right into the deep end when it comes

695
00:43:08,156 --> 00:43:11,196
Speaker 1: to yucky feelings. We're going to focus on an emotion

696
00:43:11,236 --> 00:43:14,476
Speaker 1: that goes way beyond mere discomfort, one that many of

697
00:43:14,556 --> 00:43:17,116
Speaker 1: us dread the most, but that none of us can

698
00:43:17,156 --> 00:43:21,076
Speaker 1: really hope to avoid in this beautiful, fragile world. When

699
00:43:21,076 --> 00:43:23,516
Speaker 1: the happiness slab returns, we're going to look at how

700
00:43:23,556 --> 00:43:26,236
Speaker 1: to deal with grief, how to learn from this emotion,

701
00:43:26,636 --> 00:43:28,716
Speaker 1: and how to figure out what is there to teach us.

702
00:43:29,236 --> 00:43:32,556
Speaker 1: The purpose of grief is that pain is the agent

703
00:43:32,636 --> 00:43:34,956
Speaker 1: to change that when we allow it to come through

704
00:43:35,076 --> 00:43:38,796
Speaker 1: our system, forces us to face this reality that we

705
00:43:38,836 --> 00:43:41,396
Speaker 1: don't want to look at. That this person that I

706
00:43:41,476 --> 00:43:43,796
Speaker 1: love or this thing in my life that I was

707
00:43:43,836 --> 00:43:47,236
Speaker 1: really attached to is no longer here. Until next week,

708
00:43:47,476 --> 00:43:51,716
Speaker 1: stay safe and stay happy. If you like this show

709
00:43:51,756 --> 00:43:55,516
Speaker 1: and others from Pushkin Industries, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus.

710
00:43:56,276 --> 00:43:59,116
Speaker 1: As a special gift to Pushkin Plus subscribers, I'll be

711
00:43:59,156 --> 00:44:02,076
Speaker 1: sharing a series of six guided meditations to help you

712
00:44:02,116 --> 00:44:05,476
Speaker 1: practice the lessons we've learned from our experts. To check

713
00:44:05,516 --> 00:44:08,796
Speaker 1: them out, look for Pushkin plus on Apple podcast subscriptions.

714
00:44:14,116 --> 00:44:17,036
Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilley,

715
00:44:17,196 --> 00:44:21,116
Speaker 1: Emily Anne Vaughan, and Courtney Guerino. Our original music was

716
00:44:21,156 --> 00:44:24,996
Speaker 1: composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, mixing, and mastering

717
00:44:25,076 --> 00:44:29,796
Speaker 1: by Evan Viola. Special thanks to Milabelle Heather Fame, John Schnars,

718
00:44:29,996 --> 00:44:34,636
Speaker 1: Carli Migliori, Christina Sullivan, Brandt Haynes, Maggie Taylor, Eric Sandler,

719
00:44:34,836 --> 00:44:39,756
Speaker 1: Nicole Morano, Royston Preserve, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent, Ben Davis.

720
00:44:40,556 --> 00:44:43,156
Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries

721
00:44:43,236 --> 00:44:47,116
Speaker 1: and me Doctor Laurie Santos. To find more Pushkin podcasts,

722
00:44:47,276 --> 00:44:50,676
Speaker 1: listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

723
00:44:50,716 --> 00:44:51,716
Speaker 1: listen to your podcasts,