1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,680 Speaker 1: Hello, all you beautiful breakers. We thought we would do 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:04,920 Speaker 1: something a little bit different here, so we are going 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: to release our weekend YouTube segments as an audio podcast 4 00:00:09,119 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: because I know there's a sizeable amount of you who 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 1: only listen here, so it's all good. We've got a 6 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: couple of things that we recorded throughout the week which 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 1: are our little YouTube extras, and now here they are 8 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: for your listening pleasure. At a rally recently, Donald Trump 9 00:00:23,079 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: said that he got the vaccine, and there was a 10 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:28,159 Speaker 1: little bit of like smattered booing. Then he tried to 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:29,840 Speaker 1: clean it up and be like, oh, but you still 12 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: have your freedoms. This's got a lot of media attention 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: because it showed sort of that even he was at 14 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,120 Speaker 1: odds with where some of the bases in terms of vaccines. 15 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: Someone noteworthy, Alex Jones, picked up on this whole dynamic 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,239 Speaker 1: and had some interesting commentary. Let's take a listen to 17 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,159 Speaker 1: first Trump at the rally and what he said, and 18 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: then Jones's response, I do agree, you got to do 19 00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,440 Speaker 1: what you have to do, but I recommend take the vaccines. 20 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 1: I did it. It's good, take the vaccines. But you 21 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:05,040 Speaker 1: got that's okay, that's all wrong. You got your freedoms. 22 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 1: But I happen to take the vaccine. If it doesn't work, 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 1: you'll be the first to know. Okay, I'll call it 24 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 1: Alabama say, hey, you know what, but it is working. Bs. Trump, 25 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: that's a lie. You're not stupid. Just two weeks ago 26 00:01:22,120 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: they said it was sixty five percent. They saw a 27 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:28,400 Speaker 1: number put up by about Pfizer shots thirty percent. Because 28 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: he's gonna say it doesn't work. So you're runningup a 29 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,000 Speaker 1: new damn shot and then they'll tell you six months 30 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 1: that one doesn't work. It's called rope a dope. Shame 31 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 1: on you, Trump, Seriously, Hey, if you don't have a 32 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,319 Speaker 1: good sense to save yourself your political career, that's okay. 33 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 1: At least you're gonna get some good Republicans elected. And 34 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,679 Speaker 1: you know, we like you. My god, maybe you're not 35 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: that bright. Maybe Trump's actually a dumbass. All right, we'll 36 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: be right back, stay with us. One of the things 37 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: that's interesting here is that, first of all, you see 38 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Trump like in the moment, adjusting his approach on vaccine. 39 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: So I don't think you're going to hear that line 40 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: anymore from him, because he's famous for sort of like 41 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 1: fixing new things on the fly. But also, I mean, 42 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: what do you make Jones, who has been steadfast supporter 43 00:02:12,080 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: of Donald Trump, sayings to say the most basic thing 44 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: that you know, you should probably go out and get 45 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: a vaccine. Yeah, I mean, look, I guess in a 46 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 1: way you got a hand to d alex for having principles, right. No, 47 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:29,919 Speaker 1: I do think it's fascinating that even Trump, I don't know, 48 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: I mean many people have said, oh, well, this is 49 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 1: something that goes much deeper that you know, people don't 50 00:02:34,880 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: take direction from Trump. I just don't think that's necessarily true. 51 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: I think that if Trump had actually embraced the vaccine 52 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: more wholeheartedly when he actually got it, I think back 53 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 1: when was it December or whenever? Whenever, it took weeks 54 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,480 Speaker 1: for them to even reveal that Trump had been vaccinated, 55 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: and I remember even senior officials didn't even know that 56 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: that had happened. That I think could have made a difference. 57 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: And so, you know, inserting yourself in the process now 58 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 1: after you know a lot of the media campaign and 59 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: a lot of the conservative you know, just kind of 60 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,080 Speaker 1: skepticism of all that. I think he could have headed 61 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:09,960 Speaker 1: it off by you know, calling it Trump vacks or 62 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: something like that. What I've seen Trump do this on 63 00:03:13,320 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: a variety of issues, like stimulus checks on Afghanistan. He 64 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: can change the base opinion completely if he wholeheartedly believes it, 65 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,280 Speaker 1: and if he gets out in front of it early 66 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: before kind of the media ecosystem takes a part while 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: he tries to insert himself after. Then it's not surprising 68 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: to me, whether you know, Trump inserts himself or not, 69 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: whether he can change opinion. So that's just kind of 70 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: how I think about his role. Yes, I mean, it 71 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: is interesting because at this point the basis definitely gotten 72 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: away from him on this issue. Like, I don't think 73 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 1: that there's anything he could say at this point that 74 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,280 Speaker 1: would change a hardcore you know, ten to fifteen percent, 75 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: that would change their mind. They've decided that's it, and 76 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter what he says. I mean, his 77 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, his thing, there's relatively how parted Like I 78 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: got it was good for me, but you know, you 79 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,400 Speaker 1: do whatever you want. It's hardly even still a full 80 00:04:05,480 --> 00:04:09,119 Speaker 1: throated endorsement to encourage people or take credit for it, 81 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: like you said, to frame it as because this development 82 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: did happen under his administration. So it'd be very obvious 83 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: direction to go and to claim credit for the vaccine. 84 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:22,040 Speaker 1: That seemed to be the direction they were going in 85 00:04:22,080 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: from the beginning. And you'll remember the numbers on vaccine 86 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: hesitancy really flipped because originally you had even Kamala Harris 87 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,560 Speaker 1: saying like, I don't know if I want to trust 88 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: the vaccine under Trump, and you had a lot of 89 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: Democrats who you know, I mean, that was wildly irresponsible, 90 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: and you had a lot of Democrats that were feeling 91 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: that same way. So I do think that he could 92 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: have your point about, he could have gotten down in 93 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,360 Speaker 1: front of it and changed the course of you know, 94 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: of the dynamic for the base. But at this point 95 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: they've it'd sort of gotten away from him, and I 96 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 1: think Alex Jones is probably more in touch, unfortunately with 97 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: where the most hardcore supporters are in their thinking at 98 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:04,840 Speaker 1: this point. Yeah, look it's been eight months, right, so 99 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 1: like now with eight months, and remember this happened on masks, 100 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: which is that in the beginning was the conservatives who 101 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: were pushing masks, and then the liberals were actually know, 102 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, there's nothing wrong. But then you know, Trump 103 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,839 Speaker 1: went full anti lockdown and more I still believe that 104 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: if Trump had embraced, you know, the Trump mask, and 105 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 1: he'd worn the presidential mask all the way back in March, 106 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: it will be living. First of all, he'd be president, 107 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,240 Speaker 1: but second of all, it would be a completely different 108 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: reality in terms of the politics of all of this, 109 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: and a lot of it would be switched with elite media, 110 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: you know, possibly doubting masks and then actual normal people 111 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,040 Speaker 1: saying no, you know, this is something that we should 112 00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:46,320 Speaker 1: be doing. Trump has never really understood his own unique 113 00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 1: ability to actually push the base in whichever direction that 114 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: he wants. I'm not saying that these are people who 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: are just going to blindly follow him, but what he 116 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 1: does is he can crack through conventional wisdom and through 117 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 1: previously held assumptions because they have so much trust in him. 118 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 1: In so many other areas. Saw it happen on Afghanistan, 119 00:06:08,600 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: We saw it happen, you know, on government spending, so 120 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: many different areas within the Republican base. And I really 121 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: do think that if he had changed his tune and 122 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: been more of a leader on this, both on masks 123 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 1: and on the vaccines, we'd be living in a whole 124 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 1: different country. But now it's like now what, he has 125 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 1: no Twitter account. He's not even the president anymore, you know, 126 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,760 Speaker 1: So now he's just he's much more of a figure 127 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: than he used to have the same level of authority 128 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: when he was actual president. Well, and if he had 129 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: taken a few of those different measures and steps in 130 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 1: public approaches, he'd probably still be president. I mean, that's 131 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: the bottom line. It was close enough that if he 132 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: had been like, you know, remotely responsible, and then I 133 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: think it would have been enough in the suburbs to 134 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: hold on to a few more people. Where you win 135 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: a Georgia, you win a Michigan, you know, you win 136 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,039 Speaker 1: it certainly, and you end up back ultimately in the 137 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 1: White House. Because it was really that close. So it 138 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: kind of, you know, it makes me it sort of 139 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 1: illustrates a dynamic that it really isn't generally Trump kind 140 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,520 Speaker 1: of leading the base. His skill was he's very good 141 00:07:17,560 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: at work shopping things publicly, figuring out what's organically landing, 142 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: and then leaning into that. It's not like he comes 143 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: in with like these are my set of views, and 144 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:31,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to bring people to where I am. He's 145 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: more being led than he is doing the leading. So, 146 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 1: for example, now with vaccines. Is he gonna observe like, oh, 147 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: this is the position of the base, how can I 148 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:43,160 Speaker 1: move them to where I think they ought to be eaten? 149 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: Out of course, he put his finger in the wind. 150 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: He saw what he got back, and that'll be done 151 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 1: to that, I think. Unfortunately, I think that's right. I mean, 152 00:07:50,560 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: he's both the pleaser and he never really saw himself 153 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: as a leader. The only times that he was is 154 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: when he had really strong convictions on things like trade, 155 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: like forever war. Those were things that you truly believed 156 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: and had for a really long time. Obviously failed on Afghanistan, 157 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: so you know, not give him too much credit, but 158 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, like that was the 159 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 1: way that you could actually push the base in a 160 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: different direction. But in issues like this, I think he's 161 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,680 Speaker 1: going to be much more of a follower like he 162 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,640 Speaker 1: was on mass and on lockdowns and more, when really 163 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: he could change the entire equation. Hey, so remember how 164 00:08:27,320 --> 00:08:30,480 Speaker 1: we told you how awesome premium membership was. Well, here 165 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: we are again to remind you that becoming a premium 166 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:35,680 Speaker 1: member means you don't have to listen to our constant 167 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 1: please for you to subscribe. So what are you waiting 168 00:08:38,360 --> 00:08:41,400 Speaker 1: for become a premium member today by going to Breakingpoints 169 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: dot Com, which you can click on in the show notes. 170 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: Time for one of our favorite recurring segments here on 171 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: Breaking Points, How terrible of a politician Kamala Harris is. 172 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: So let's go ahead and put this up there on 173 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: the screen. This is a new feeling thermometer via NBC 174 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 1: News in the way that America's feel about different politicians. 175 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: Kamala in August of twenty twenty one has the lowest 176 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: feeling thermometer of any first year vice president, going back 177 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:17,840 Speaker 1: to Al Gore in nineteen ninety three, with an unprecedented 178 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: very negative rating on NBC News's survey tracker that I 179 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,240 Speaker 1: think is absolutely incredible, and you can actually see that 180 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,960 Speaker 1: even Al Gore had the twelve percent very negative feeling. 181 00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:36,920 Speaker 1: Dick Cheney in June of two thousand and one, Darth 182 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 1: Vader Cheney himself eleven percent, and this is pre nine 183 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: to eleven, so none of the bump. Joe Biden July 184 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,360 Speaker 1: two thousand and nine was at nineteen percent, Mike Pence 185 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: was at twenty three percent. So you remember how much 186 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,720 Speaker 1: people hated Mike Pence and they made all those memes 187 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: around him calling his wife mother and all that. Yeah, 188 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,200 Speaker 1: now go ahead and add thirteen more and we have 189 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:04,959 Speaker 1: kam Law at thirty six percent. So she is truly 190 00:10:05,440 --> 00:10:09,920 Speaker 1: one of the most hated politicians in modern American history, 191 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 1: and especially amongst her colleagues there, among the former vice presidents. 192 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: It's kind of incredible. Everyone could have predicted it, and 193 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 1: yet it's just funny to see. It's funny to see 194 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,360 Speaker 1: it manifest itself into reality, is what it is. There's 195 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,719 Speaker 1: a lot about these ratings that are interesting slash disturbing. 196 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 1: The Kamala one actually I kind of like the most 197 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: because it kind of makes sense to me, you know. 198 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 1: The Biden one also kind of makes sense to me 199 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:45,600 Speaker 1: because his ratings are more or less neutral, Like total 200 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: positive thirty eight percent, total negative thirty six percent is 201 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,719 Speaker 1: like more or less neutral. I guess Pence in a 202 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,480 Speaker 1: weird way as being more or less neutral kind of 203 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,600 Speaker 1: makes sense to me as well, because he was just 204 00:10:56,640 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: such a bystander to the presidency, I mean, related to 205 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:03,599 Speaker 1: do anything other than you know, occasionally pop up in 206 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:05,880 Speaker 1: the news doing something weird like calling his wife mother, 207 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 1: which they do think is kind of greevy. Whatever, it's 208 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:12,280 Speaker 1: your choice. The one that really, the one that really 209 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: disturbs me here is Dick Cheney. He had such positive 210 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 1: ratings plus twenty three percent, and then on the difference 211 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: between very positive and very negative plus fifteen percent. What 212 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:30,560 Speaker 1: but you know, I mean, you're probably too young to 213 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: really remember this period, Sager. But when he first was 214 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: picked as vice president by George W. Bush, the thinking 215 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is like a moderating influence. This 216 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 1: is someone who actually really understands government, and he's not 217 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:49,920 Speaker 1: going to be, you know, this radical like George W. 218 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: Bush has more radical ideas. The thought was for a 219 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: lot of people who were nervous about George W. Bush, 220 00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: they were kind of relieved when Cheney got picked as 221 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 1: vice president. And then of course, like nine to eleven happens, 222 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,080 Speaker 1: and he just uses it as an excuse to implement 223 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 1: this incredibly radical ideology of nation building around the world, 224 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: obviously the consequences of which we're still living with here. 225 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:21,480 Speaker 1: But look, I mean, anyone who watched Kamala's failed presidential 226 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 1: performance should have known that this would be the case. 227 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: And this is an instance where she is one hundred 228 00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 1: percent a media creation. I mean, the voters literally were like, 229 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: we want nothing to do with this. She had to 230 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: drop out before the primary, but because she'd been such 231 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,840 Speaker 1: a media darling and because the establishment still wanted to 232 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 1: make her happen, she ends up as vice president of 233 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: the United States, and now they're kind of host because 234 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: they're stuck with her, and they have to look at 235 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: these numbers and go like, geez, I hope the old 236 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:50,560 Speaker 1: guy makes it to the next presidential run, because if 237 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:52,800 Speaker 1: Kamala ends up at the top of the ticket, we're 238 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,800 Speaker 1: in some big trouble here. And that's just twenty twenty four. Look, 239 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: she will be the nominee in twenty twenty eight. If 240 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: Biden wins reelection, I mean, then your host. I really 241 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: don't know what to say. I've never seen such a 242 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: surefire loser on the modern American political stage. And just 243 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: everybody's always crying misogyny and looks I'm sorry, like that 244 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: is not what is happening here, or if it is, 245 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: maybe it's a small part of the story. Plenty of 246 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: women have done plenty well in many different Democratic primaries, 247 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 1: and I've been elected to many Democratic offices. It's the 248 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: fact that she clearly is just a very unprincipled person. 249 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: This is something that goes all the way back to 250 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,160 Speaker 1: her political career from the very beginning. She is a 251 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 1: chameleon and people can sense it. One of my favorite 252 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 1: things here in DC is that stupid ass mural, which 253 00:13:43,280 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: is like, excuse me, mister Vice President, I'm speaking, and 254 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,959 Speaker 1: I'm like, who asked for this? Like I actually want 255 00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,280 Speaker 1: to know nobody is like yas queening around Kamala except 256 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: maybe herself. That's it. Obama, I get it, you know, 257 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 1: I get it absolutely, even Hillary. It's not my thing, 258 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: but you know, I understand there are like legit Hillary 259 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:09,320 Speaker 1: stands out there, but you know, with her, just the 260 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: level of trying to create it in this into this 261 00:14:13,320 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: thing and running into actual public opinion, They're just never 262 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,120 Speaker 1: going to be able to obfuscate that. And it's story. 263 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,000 Speaker 1: I always love highlighting because it just shows how full 264 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: of it that the media and really that these people are, 265 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: that they try and force it down people's throats, and 266 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: the only thing that can save you is democracy from 267 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: letting these people take over. Yeah. Well, and there's also 268 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 1: been a trend over time, which is part of I 269 00:14:37,240 --> 00:14:39,800 Speaker 1: guess why Dick Cheney is so popular in these very 270 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,640 Speaker 1: disturbing polls. Is you know, public officials have just gotten 271 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: less popular over time. I mean, people are just disgusted Republican, Democrat, talented, untalented, 272 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,960 Speaker 1: like across the board, people are just fed up with 273 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: the political class. And everything is also fed through this 274 00:14:57,640 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 1: incredibly like tribal partisan sect Harran Lenz. So you automatically 275 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 1: know that if you're a Democrat, every Republican is going 276 00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,160 Speaker 1: to be against you, every Democrat is likely to be 277 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 1: for you, and then all the action is kind of 278 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: in the middle with the independence of which there are 279 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: fewer and fewer who actually are kind of unaffiliated from 280 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: partisan perspective. So that's kind of like a longer trend 281 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: part of the story here as well. But you know, 282 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,600 Speaker 1: even as we've been looking at the declining approval ratings 283 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:32,160 Speaker 1: of Joe Biden and how because of the media is 284 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,920 Speaker 1: wildly unfair coverage of his Afghanistan withdrawal, he's taken a 285 00:15:36,920 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: big hit there, but and approval ratings are a little 286 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: bit different than this, like how do you feel about 287 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:45,560 Speaker 1: the person thing? But he's still doing better than Kamala 288 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: even right now when things are at their toughest for 289 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,880 Speaker 1: President Biden, that's right. Well, good luck. That's all I 290 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: have to say. Good luck to Kamala. I wish you 291 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: the best. I hope that you run so that I 292 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 1: can cover it here on the show. Be interesting to 293 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: watch and we will bring you out of the latest. Wow, 294 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 1: you guys must really like listening to our voices. Well, 295 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: I know this is annoying instead of making you listen 296 00:16:07,840 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: to a Viagri commercial. When you're done, check out the 297 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: other podcast I do with Marshall Kassoff called The Realignment. 298 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about the deeper issues that are changing, 299 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 1: realigning in American society. You always need more Crystal and 300 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: Sager in your daily lives. Take care, guys. So, workers 301 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: across the country are on strike at Nabisco factories in 302 00:16:26,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: five different cities across the country right now. They're saying 303 00:16:29,640 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: they've lost their pension. They're saying they're worried about jobs 304 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 1: being moved overseas, something Tobisco has done in the past 305 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:38,440 Speaker 1: period of time when the company has done extraordinarily well 306 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: during the pandemic. So joining us now to bring us 307 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: up to date on what is going on with that 308 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 1: strike is Mike Burlingham. He is the vice president of 309 00:16:46,880 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: BCTGM Local three sixty four in Portland, Oregon. Mike, it's 310 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 1: great to have you. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah. Absolutely, 311 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:58,720 Speaker 1: so just tell us why you and your brothers and 312 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: sisters are on strike. Absolutely. This has been a long 313 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: time coming. Unfortunately, it's been a bit of a boiling 314 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 1: pot really since twenty sixteen when we sat up the 315 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,240 Speaker 1: table for the first time with Mondalize. Mondalese became the 316 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 1: new owners of Nabisco in twenty twelve when there was 317 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: a split from Craft Foods, so in twenty sixteen, and 318 00:17:24,119 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: when we were meeting with them for the first time, 319 00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:31,159 Speaker 1: it was very apparent that Mondale's approach to negotiations was 320 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,399 Speaker 1: we have certain things in mind and we are unwilling 321 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: to budge from those things. So it was more of 322 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: a listed demands rather than negotiations. So from twenty sixteen 323 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: to twenty twenty we went without having a contract at all. 324 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 1: So during that time we were working on the previous contract. 325 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: In between that time. In twenty eighteen, the company claimed 326 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:01,200 Speaker 1: impass and withdrew from our pension at that time, for 327 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: all of us working inside of the bakeries and the 328 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: distribution centers that are all on this contract. The clock 329 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:10,920 Speaker 1: stopped for us in twenty eighteen, So for a lot 330 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: of individuals who are months away from retirement are now 331 00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: having to work several more years to actual retirement age 332 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: of sixty five to receive that pension benefit. And for 333 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: many people, they're not even going to receive that pension 334 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 1: benefit at all. And in twenty twenty, we did have 335 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:36,560 Speaker 1: a one year contract which was at the very beginning 336 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: of the pandemic, so this allowed the use of temporary 337 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,360 Speaker 1: workers inside the facility on a temporary basis. The temporary 338 00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:51,400 Speaker 1: workers were supposed to be out of the bakery by 339 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: August first of twenty twenty. The use of the temporary 340 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 1: workers was only supposed to be there for sanitation purposes 341 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: and also to pick up any areas of production in 342 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:08,120 Speaker 1: case people had to go out due to COVID reasons. 343 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: On August first, twenty twenty, when the company had reached 344 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: out to all the locals to ask if they could 345 00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: keep the temporary workers working, we told them no, they 346 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: went ahead and kept them anyway. So the company is 347 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: now in violation of its own contract and up to 348 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,120 Speaker 1: the point here in Portland, Oregon, on August tenth, when 349 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,760 Speaker 1: we walked out, there were still temporary workers inside of 350 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: that building. Got it and Mike. The strike has now 351 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 1: expanded across five different states. It's a historic action there. 352 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: How many workers are we talking about here, and let's 353 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 1: just get you know, let's just reiterate and make it 354 00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 1: clear to people, what are you demanding, you know, in 355 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: terms of the basics. Right well, in Portland, Oregon, we 356 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,840 Speaker 1: have just a little over two hundred is represented by 357 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: the BCTGM. In Chicago there's roughly six hundred. Richmond, Virginia 358 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: over five hundred. These are the bakeries. And then we 359 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 1: have our distribution centers as well, so that there's well 360 00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:20,719 Speaker 1: over one thousand people here that are all out on strike. 361 00:20:22,920 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: Our demands, we're not coming in with demands where we're 362 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,680 Speaker 1: coming in saying we want to keep things the way 363 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: they are. We want to maintain our benefits. We want 364 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,280 Speaker 1: reinstatement into the pension that you took away from us 365 00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,879 Speaker 1: without negotiation. These are things that we have fought for 366 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 1: in the past. We've already given up things such as wages, 367 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: taking lesser wages years prior so we can maintain the 368 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,600 Speaker 1: pension funds, so we can maintain our healthcare benefits. We've 369 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 1: already done giveaways in the past to have what we 370 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,199 Speaker 1: have today. So what we're coming to the table is 371 00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:02,480 Speaker 1: saying we just want things to remain the way they are. 372 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: The company isn't interested in that. They're coming in saying, oh, 373 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:12,280 Speaker 1: these are decade old policies that we have in here, 374 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: and then these are the things that need to change. 375 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: A company says they're coming to the table in good faith. 376 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,920 Speaker 1: But again, just like in twenty sixteen, they're coming in 377 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,479 Speaker 1: with their list of demands and saying we're not budgeting 378 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 1: from this, so that's not negotiating. And Mike did Monalese 379 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,280 Speaker 1: and Nabisco they have a tough year last year, profits 380 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: way down, barely making it. On the contrary, Mandalese and 381 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: snack Foods as a whole did very well during the pandemic. 382 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: But Mandalese just last year in twenty twenty, had three 383 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 1: and a half billion dollars in profits. The year before 384 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: that they made three point nine and the year prior 385 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,480 Speaker 1: to that they made three point three billion dollars. So 386 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: we're talking about over the course of the last three 387 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: years they have made nearly eleven billion dollars in profits 388 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,680 Speaker 1: and they are making acquisitions, they are a growing company. 389 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:15,240 Speaker 1: They're doing very well for themselves. But during the global pandemic, 390 00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: excuse me, the demand was very high for snack foods. 391 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,800 Speaker 1: So what that meant for us is a lot of 392 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: hours and a lot of days putting consecutively. For us 393 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: here in Portland, many of us were working thirteen to 394 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: sixteen hour days. Same can be said for Chicago and Richmond, Virginia. 395 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:41,080 Speaker 1: We were putting in long hours day after day. My 396 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: longest stretch without a day off was five weeks, but 397 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: for several people they had even longer stretches. Wow, that 398 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: is just unbelievable. And as you're saying, really not asking 399 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: there for much and the company isn't negotiating. That is 400 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:59,439 Speaker 1: just absolutely crazy. Crystal. Do you have anything else there? Yeah? 401 00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:02,520 Speaker 1: One other thing, Mike, I've seen some workers calling for 402 00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: people to not eat Nipabisco products. I just wanted to 403 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,440 Speaker 1: see if that is in the fact the position of 404 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: you and the union, and where else can people find 405 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: information about what's going on and keep track. Sure? Yes, 406 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: right now, while we are out on strike, we are 407 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 1: asking people do not buy Nabisco products. We've had a 408 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 1: campaign for a number of years now when the company 409 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 1: was shutting down bakeries and moving a lot of the 410 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:37,639 Speaker 1: money down to Mexico. We were asking people check the 411 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,800 Speaker 1: label on the back of your package. It'll tell you 412 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,400 Speaker 1: where your food is made. Please support the US based 413 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: bakeries and buy those Nibisco products. Do not buy any 414 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: of that say made in Mexico. You know, we've been 415 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,639 Speaker 1: very fortunate to have a lot of coverage with this 416 00:23:54,760 --> 00:24:00,200 Speaker 1: strike right now and you know, keeping yourself educated on 417 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: what's going on. I feel like a lot of people 418 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: are doing so We've been getting a lot of great 419 00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: support on that. So we want to say thank you 420 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,920 Speaker 1: very much to everybody out there who's supporting us. Yeah, 421 00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:14,640 Speaker 1: I saw you guys. I saw information on more Perfect Union. 422 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 1: They've been doing great work. I know, had a few 423 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 1: videos featuring some of your workers and listen. It takes 424 00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: a lot of courage to do what you guys are doing, 425 00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,440 Speaker 1: to stand up for yourselves, to try to push back 426 00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:31,119 Speaker 1: against a giant, multinational corporation. So, you know, just really 427 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,160 Speaker 1: grateful to you for the time today, and we will 428 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: be following closely and with you all the best. Mike. 429 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:41,119 Speaker 1: Thank you, Mike, absolutely, thank you very much. Thanks for 430 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,159 Speaker 1: listening to the show, guys, we really appreciate it. To 431 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,320 Speaker 1: help other people find the show, go ahead and leave 432 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,399 Speaker 1: us a five star rating on Apple Podcasts or wherever 433 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. Really helps other people find the show. 434 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 1: As always special, thank you to Supercast for powering our 435 00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 1: premium membership. If you want to find out more, go 436 00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: to Crystalansager dot com. Oh